Speaker 1: There are those right now that are questioning whether you're
Speaker 1: gonna with stand the big Man.
Speaker 2: Well, sure about those people, man, I don't care about
Speaker 2: those people that aren't start craving the hulk of maniacs.
Speaker 2: I could care less what they think. I'm fighting for life, brother,
Speaker 2: I'm fighting for all those people that have remolded their lives. Man,
Speaker 2: I'm not after haul Camania. Get their priority to an order. Man.
Speaker 3: Walk around with a lot of pride.
Speaker 2: As far as those people that are on Andre the
Speaker 2: Giant's side, I wish he'd come on down to and
Speaker 2: I to sap them around, just for a warm up.
Speaker 2: But I've already gone through my transformation. Man, I'm ready
Speaker 2: for Pontiac, Michigan.
Speaker 3: I'm not the hawk anymore. I'm the hawk.
Speaker 2: Come man, looking to my eyes. Man, I'm on that
Speaker 2: mountaintop and I'm waiting for you Andre. Now, I'm guarding
Speaker 2: that mountain in the halls to the garden. You've got
Speaker 2: thirty two neck, I's sixty four as jet is the
Speaker 2: largest armed in the world.
Speaker 1: And I'm here to.
Speaker 2: Speak in destroy, Speak in destroy the cancer a bandering
Speaker 2: at the time, speak and destroy the weevil the empire
Speaker 2: and what you gonna do Andre and Pontiac Michigan un
Speaker 2: Hawk Commania destroys you.
Speaker 4: And now for your hosts, Michael Gross and Sean Bush.
Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Russell Magic.
Speaker 4: That's a night. I've got my good friend Sean bush
Speaker 4: Back who's just come into the studio, and we're talking
Speaker 4: about really the impact of the death of hul Cogan.
Speaker 4: And I know that's like very hard to say what
Speaker 4: was the impact of the death. We have to also
Speaker 4: look at the impact of the life. We're not here
Speaker 4: to do a whole retrospective on everything he's done in
Speaker 4: his career, but we are going to talk about highlights,
Speaker 4: and unfortunately, we're gonna talk about low lights. And I
Speaker 4: really want to actually start off by saying that, you know,
Speaker 4: I love our producer Jimmy Street for everything he does.
Speaker 4: And I also want to say that I love my
Speaker 4: co host Sean Bush because Sean is amazing and he
Speaker 4: has a great wrestling mind. And so it's great to
Speaker 4: actually have this banter and go back and forth and
Speaker 4: talk about what we felt was impactful and not really
Speaker 4: so impactful and what really outright buried companies. So today
Speaker 4: I want to welcome everybody to Sean Bush.
Speaker 3: Sean, Hello, I love you too.
Speaker 4: It's great to have you on this show.
Speaker 3: Thank you very very nice words.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, ever since Rocky took a sabbatical, you've
Speaker 4: been like a good co host to me, And I
Speaker 4: think that because we know each other so well, that
Speaker 4: we can actually do everything in the studio and kind
Speaker 4: of get out what we feel about things. So I
Speaker 4: would like to ask you your first impressions growing up
Speaker 4: about hul Cogan.
Speaker 3: What art there? Good lord?
Speaker 1: H Well, before I even really knew what wrestling was
Speaker 1: as an art forum, I mean, was there. He's just
Speaker 1: been in the cultural zeitgeist for my entire life.
Speaker 3: I was born, Uh what was it.
Speaker 1: I was born on twenty fourth, so it's of March
Speaker 1: in eighty seven, so it's like a week before. It
Speaker 1: was the tuesday before WrestleMania three. So that was literally
Speaker 1: the first biggest like cultural event in my lifetime.
Speaker 3: You know, I was, you know, four and five days
Speaker 3: old whatever it was at that point.
Speaker 1: Obviously I don't remember that, but I mean going back
Speaker 1: to I mean movies, you know, I remember even seeing
Speaker 1: them in one of three Ninja's movies.
Speaker 3: At some Pointy which he had hair. He had hair
Speaker 3: in that movie. Can you believe it spray on? Yeh.
Speaker 1: But WrestleMania three, I mean, I it's one of those
Speaker 1: things in life where you know, you've got great movies
Speaker 1: that you love, or you know, records that you love,
Speaker 1: and sort of you can never really go back and
Speaker 1: listen to or watch those films again for the first
Speaker 1: time like you did. And WrestleMania three against Andre is kind.
Speaker 3: Of like that. As far as a.
Speaker 1: Wrestling fan, I grew up to be a bit more
Speaker 1: into the sort of technical style of wrestling myself, but
Speaker 1: from the early days, I mean, watching that match, I
Speaker 1: can still kind of remember, maybe not where I was,
Speaker 1: but the feeling I felt, the epicness, the bigness of
Speaker 1: the moment watching that match, you know, fifteen years later
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, you know, or you know, probably
Speaker 1: more like ten years later or something like that, when
Speaker 1: I could find it years ago when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: but it was surreal.
Speaker 3: It was just one of those matches. It's one of
Speaker 3: the biggest.
Speaker 1: And probably most important matches in the history of pro wrestling,
Speaker 1: and likewise, Hulk Cogan and Andre of course, but you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Hulkster today, and I don't think
Speaker 1: anybody can really deny his you know, legacy, his impact.
Speaker 4: I absolutely agree with you on that because, like I'm
Speaker 4: not a Hogan fan. When I grew up, I'm obviously
Speaker 4: a little bit older than you. And I watched the
Speaker 4: NWA on Saturday night, so I saw Rick Flair, so
Speaker 4: I saw wrestling versus sports entertainment, and it was very
Speaker 4: interesting to see the two pit each other against each other.
Speaker 4: It was so much fun, but it was crazy at
Speaker 4: the time also to see Hogan going against these larger
Speaker 4: than life opponents and let's list them off, Andre the
Speaker 4: Walking Condominium, King Kong, Bundy, the Walking Egg. Yeah basically yeah,
Speaker 4: that was his nickname. Though how did Bundy ever get pinned?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think his shoulders could ever touched
Speaker 3: the mask.
Speaker 4: You His whole gimmick was he had to pin somebody
Speaker 4: for five seconds instead of three. I loved it, something
Speaker 4: that I wish they should do with Bronze and Reed today.
Speaker 4: But anyway, I digress, because this is about Hogan, so
Speaker 4: big John stud it was everybody who was ginormous. And
Speaker 4: then I remember.
Speaker 1: I actually I hate Button, but somebody the other day.
Speaker 1: You know, this is a couple of days after Hogan
Speaker 1: passed away. I had listened already to a few different
Speaker 1: you know, reactions, but somebody made a point that I
Speaker 1: hadn't thought about before. You just named these guys and
Speaker 1: other guys that they thought that were giants.
Speaker 3: That were huge.
Speaker 1: It was also huge six seven, three hundred you know whatever,
Speaker 1: it was forty pounds or something, three thirty.
Speaker 3: Ginormous baby face like he was at the time. I
Speaker 3: mean he was.
Speaker 1: It's rare that it's a baby is that, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of as you know, they're to fight from them,
Speaker 1: you know, underneath, to you know, to to be able
Speaker 1: to fight from up, you know, off the that at
Speaker 1: a at a villain, at a bad guy.
Speaker 4: Which actually, you make a really good point because more
Speaker 4: of today's modern wrestling is scientific. If you know chain
Speaker 4: wrestling and you have a medium build, you can beat
Speaker 4: a much larger person. But uh, this wasn't today's wrestling.
Speaker 4: So Hogan, I just remember he always fought everybody. Kamala.
Speaker 4: They brought Kamala up from Memphis to fight him, and
Speaker 4: my boys. Oh I love Kamala, Sugar Bear Harris, Sugar
Speaker 4: Bear Harris. But getting into What is really important about
Speaker 4: the legacy see of what hul Cogan did is the
Speaker 4: fact that he was one of the first wrestlers at
Speaker 4: his size, which was a ginormous size at the time,
Speaker 4: that they said, Okay, we could put him against Andre
Speaker 4: and then we could put him against Lawler in Memphis,
Speaker 4: and then we could ship him off to Portland and
Speaker 4: he can learn some new things from Buddy Rose and
Speaker 4: a few other people there. And believe it or not,
Speaker 4: people playboy Buddy Rose was pretty amazing if you watched
Speaker 4: what he could do as far as chain wrestling. So
Speaker 4: he was a project person and he was discovered in Florida.
Speaker 4: We both know this. And he was trained by Hiro Matsuda.
Speaker 4: And the whole thing was he always said in his
Speaker 4: interviews that his first day, Hiro Matsuda broke his leg.
Speaker 4: Then there's other stories like, well he came back eight
Speaker 4: weeks later. You're not coming back eight weeks later from
Speaker 4: a broken leg.
Speaker 1: Okay, maybe in nineteen eighty or whatever it was eighty one, mate.
Speaker 4: Well, what did Chris Rock You say, pour the testinon it.
Speaker 4: Just pour the testing on it.
Speaker 3: So I buy that that happened. I know.
Speaker 1: Hogan's like famous for his you know, degenerations that I
Speaker 1: buy that Metsuita probably did actually break his way.
Speaker 4: We will get to that. But yeah, so seriously, he
Speaker 4: was They say that he had a broken leg. Now
Speaker 4: historians and analysts say it was just sprained and he
Speaker 4: could get back on it. Whatever. The point is, he
Speaker 4: blew up, and he blew up huge, and so he
Speaker 4: moved from Florida up to Memphis. And then you weren't
Speaker 4: anybody back then because there was WWF was WWWF back then,
Speaker 4: and it was way up. It was a territory, it
Speaker 4: was it was different. And so you know, if you
Speaker 4: worked Lawlor, that was like the biggest thing in the
Speaker 4: world at that point. You worked Lawlor Fargo all the
Speaker 4: people in Memphis because that was the capital of wrestling
Speaker 4: at that time in the world. Now do you know
Speaker 4: anything about his so called musical history.
Speaker 1: I know a bit about his musical history. I know
Speaker 1: the fact that he is a legitimate you know, as
Speaker 1: far as I know. And I'm a musician myself, but
Speaker 1: you know, a pretty decent musician, you know, pretty good
Speaker 1: bass player for a number of years.
Speaker 3: For what that's worth. A bass players get a lot
Speaker 3: of flack. But yeah, from what I've seen, I think
Speaker 3: he was.
Speaker 1: I don't know much about his history, but from what
Speaker 1: I can tell, you know, gleaning over the years, it
Speaker 1: seems like he was a pretty competent musician.
Speaker 4: Well, obviously in Memphis, that's when he met Jimmy Hart,
Speaker 4: and that's when Jimmy Hart and the Gentries actually had
Speaker 4: a number one hit. People don't know that, some people
Speaker 4: do you know it?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean if you're wrestling historian, you do. If
Speaker 4: you're not, you don't. And so there was a little
Speaker 4: bond there, and then of course it was time for
Speaker 4: the Big Hulk to keep moving around. Now he went
Speaker 4: by several different names. Do you have any of those
Speaker 4: names on you?
Speaker 1: Terry Boulder, that's the best one, Terry Bold. And then
Speaker 1: his little brother right was a booty.
Speaker 4: Man, Dizzy Hogan. And let's not forget that he was
Speaker 4: also Sterling Gold. And he would shave. He would shave
Speaker 4: his chest hair into a tornado.
Speaker 3: I've seen those pictures.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's so funny. It's like who would do And
Speaker 4: it's so like lopside.
Speaker 1: That's just the thing being him with chest hair or
Speaker 1: something like that. The visual itself, I mean, you're we're
Speaker 1: so removed from that time period would be more so.
Speaker 1: But you know, to see him looking like any other
Speaker 1: way than he did, you know traditionally the red and
Speaker 1: yellow and then later but it's so weird. It's such
Speaker 1: a strange thing. You've used to wear blue. I guess
Speaker 1: was it white even? I think, yeah, we're white trunks.
Speaker 1: Maybe that was in Rocky Thunderlips. Yeah, yeah, another great name.
Speaker 3: Why didn't they use that? Where was that gimmick?
Speaker 4: That should be my new email? Like Thunderlips that, you know,
Speaker 4: because someone probably has that and we don't want them
Speaker 4: to get like fire bombed. But getting back to the
Speaker 4: situation of Hogan is he he did a lot of
Speaker 4: things as far as making the business better because Vince
Speaker 4: McMahon saw something in him. He was stolen from vern Gania,
Speaker 4: and that's because vern Gania had all the big men
Speaker 4: and he was taking them one by one. That's Vince McMahon.
Speaker 4: Excuse me pronounce pal. Vince was stealing all the big
Speaker 4: men that Vern had, and so vern was left with
Speaker 4: a lot of anemic, smallot characters. But Hogan was the
Speaker 4: most impactful because I guess Vince saw him and said, okay,
Speaker 4: I can do something with him. Now, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 4: he was the only person at that size, that six seven,
Speaker 4: three hundred that was taking care of himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just like impressive. I mean the guy he must
Speaker 1: have been. It must have been incredible seeing the guy in.
Speaker 3: A room for the first time. Just the impressiveness of
Speaker 3: his figure.
Speaker 4: I can't fathom, Like if he walked into a room,
Speaker 4: how big he is, Like does he duck going through
Speaker 4: the doorway? And now what people do not know is
Speaker 4: that Hogan wrestled as a heel for so many years
Speaker 4: before he makes his big break in nineteen eighty four,
Speaker 4: before Vince saw the dollar signs on him, he was
Speaker 4: a heel everywhere and his number one opponent Andre.
Speaker 1: Number I was going to say, I wasn't sure if
Speaker 1: he wanted me to go on and answer to that.
Speaker 1: But before the first time he slammed Andre, Oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, and uh, it was because he was
Speaker 4: strong enough to do it even though he was smaller
Speaker 4: than Andre. They're trying to create a story, and I
Speaker 4: don't know if Vince McMahon was writing a story that
Speaker 4: would later become wrestle Mania three.
Speaker 1: You're giving him the triple H long term storytelling the credit.
Speaker 4: That's like a fifteen year story run.
Speaker 3: End up happening.
Speaker 1: I mean, I will, you know, just for jump off
Speaker 1: for one second, recently saying hang man page.
Speaker 3: When the aw title back.
Speaker 1: I couldn't have seen Tony Kahn writing that four years ago,
Speaker 1: whatever it was when he wanted full gear the first time.
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes wrestling has a way of winding
Speaker 1: itself back around, and you've got a character that kind
Speaker 1: of rises back up to the top at the right time,
Speaker 1: and it sort of completes that Art Koe Rhoades did something,
Speaker 1: you know, quite similar.
Speaker 3: But these things happen. Sometimes they're just it's a happy accident.
Speaker 4: That's a great way of putting it. Sometimes if there's
Speaker 4: a train wreck, you shouldn't look at it, but you
Speaker 4: can't help but look, and all of a sudden you
Speaker 4: get hooked at seeing what you're seeing. And that's what
Speaker 4: Hogan's I don't want to say his legacy, but what
Speaker 4: his career was. So I want to talk a little
Speaker 4: bit more about some of Do you have any favorite
Speaker 4: Hogan matches?
Speaker 1: I mean, the favorite is Wrestlemanny three against andre I
Speaker 1: know that's probably the cheapest answer anybody could give in
Speaker 1: that category. But I just don't see how it's not.
Speaker 1: It's it's so huge as a match, as a moment,
Speaker 1: and I would say even somewhat just the sports sense,
Speaker 1: like a real sports sense, at least in the United States.
Speaker 1: But a lot of the rest of my favorites really
Speaker 1: came sort of later on in his career when he
Speaker 1: was in WCW. I remember the cage match between him
Speaker 1: and Flaired Uncensored. I want to say ninety nine that
Speaker 1: yours truly attended with some old friends, you know, when
Speaker 1: we were about twelve years old. That was a good one,
Speaker 1: probably amplified by the fact that we were there alive
Speaker 1: and Freedom Hall for it. And then the Rocky match,
Speaker 1: which I don't know if it gets the right amount
Speaker 1: or not as enough credit. To be honest with you,
Speaker 1: sometimes it seems one way, sometimes it seems to the other.
Speaker 1: But too you know, I was never a same that
Speaker 1: you said earlier. I was never really that big of
Speaker 1: a Hogan fan growing up. I just liked the other
Speaker 1: guys around him, and especially when he got to the nWo,
Speaker 1: I wasn't an nWo guy. I wanted to see Sting
Speaker 1: and DDP take him down and sort of similarly with Rocky,
Speaker 1: you know, recognize how great he was, but he was
Speaker 1: never one of my.
Speaker 3: Favorite guys that I like to cheer for.
Speaker 1: But to go back and and even we watched this match,
Speaker 1: you know, live when we were kids, on pay per
Speaker 1: view too, but you know, going back now, it's just
Speaker 1: one of those matches that the crowd is completely into it.
Speaker 1: You know, these guys are probably, if not top to
Speaker 1: top three or four, you know pro wrestling stars that
Speaker 1: you know, definitely the top two that turned into like cultural,
Speaker 1: you know, more icons. I would still argue, exactly, it's
Speaker 1: got that over Rocky. I know, Rockies massive these days,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's you know, recency bias for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but I still don't think that he's managed
Speaker 1: to kind of eclipse the shadow that sort of Hogan's
Speaker 1: kind of big, wide cultural figure cast.
Speaker 4: You know, what I think is really interesting is with
Speaker 4: Vince McMahon's ability in the eighties to always trademark everything.
Speaker 4: He could never trade mark Hulk Hogan because the word
Speaker 4: hulk is owned by Marvel Studios. People don't know this.
Speaker 4: That's why he could always be whole Kokan not be
Speaker 4: Terry Blay again or Sterling golden again, Lord forbid and
Speaker 4: not have Dizzy Hogan. Oh, dear Lord, we wouldn't.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have gotten one of my other favorite uh
Speaker 1: Hogan moments. If Horace Beefcake you know, show back up
Speaker 1: in w CW with them, we wouldn't have gotten that beautiful.
Speaker 3: Booty booty booty booty moments.
Speaker 4: Well, Hogan always had his stooges, Okay, And so folks,
Speaker 4: everybody who's listening and putting their earballs on this, I
Speaker 4: want you to realize that we're not trying to doubt him.
Speaker 4: We're just we're having a little fun with this because
Speaker 4: it's it is a morning moment for somebody who helped
Speaker 4: innovate wrestling as we know it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and one of them is Jimmy Hart you mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel bad for a guy like Jimmy Hart,
Speaker 1: who is obviously very close with whole you know, for
Speaker 1: his you know, career.
Speaker 3: That exactly, and put so much time and his own money,
Speaker 3: his own at work ethic.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jimmy Hart's one of the one of the
Speaker 1: real good ones out there still, so I do I
Speaker 1: do feel obviously for him and his Hogan's family.
Speaker 3: You deserve a little bit of condolences there as well,
Speaker 3: even though they're a little clown show. Let's say, you know,
Speaker 3: from the old reality TV days.
Speaker 1: He can't really escape that too much, but they do,
Speaker 1: you know, deserve condolences.
Speaker 4: So I will say a couple of matches that I
Speaker 4: really enjoyed that Hull Cogin was part of was what
Speaker 4: he lost the belt to the Undertaker the first time.
Speaker 4: That was pretty awesome.
Speaker 3: That was the time that he that Undertaker dropped him
Speaker 3: on his head on.
Speaker 4: A chair seven inches away.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So if you don't know this, yeah, if you don't
Speaker 4: know this is a huge controversy with it, and there
Speaker 4: was not necessarily a few because I'm not going to
Speaker 4: speak for anybody else who can't be on the show.
Speaker 4: But the Undertaker has said a lot of things on
Speaker 4: his podcast about the fact that his head was nowhere
Speaker 4: near it and then he claimed, well, you jarred my
Speaker 4: body and they put the belt right back on Hogan,
Speaker 4: which made no sense. And that point Undertaker was hot
Speaker 4: and he was just taking off. And while I'm not
Speaker 4: a big fan, a traditional fan of like this person
Speaker 4: gets pushed to the moon in retrospect, looking at the
Speaker 4: Undertaker's catalog of matches versus Hogan's it's you know, apples
Speaker 4: and oranges.
Speaker 1: So Thinker was still kind of always I don't think
Speaker 1: McMahon really. I mean, it's amazing to be and maybe
Speaker 1: one day we'll talk about Undertaker, hopefully a long time
Speaker 1: from now, just saying yes, many many more years before that.
Speaker 1: But you know, he's a guy that McMahon got.
Speaker 3: A whole hell of a lot out of. But I
Speaker 3: still feel like, man, he could have gotten so much more.
Speaker 3: He never really had big, long rains. You know, his
Speaker 3: rings were sort of shorter.
Speaker 4: You know, oh exactly, but you know this is Hogan's moment,
Speaker 4: so yeah, you know.
Speaker 3: We're tacketting off. That's okay, Yeah, part of the Hogan verse.
Speaker 4: Man, exactly the Hogan verse. He did have his own verse.
Speaker 4: I mean, they would bring in people two times his
Speaker 4: size that they would find like Earthquake. John Tenta was
Speaker 4: an actual Yoko Zuna, which is a real Grand Master
Speaker 4: Champion Suma wrestler, and they said that he might have
Speaker 4: been as tough as Andre the Giant, but when Andre
Speaker 4: was gone, they had him facing Hogan and it was
Speaker 4: it just was so hokey and It's nothing against John Tenta,
Speaker 4: It's just you didn't buy it because you built the
Speaker 4: character in five months. Andre was around for forty years. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it just didn't make sense at the time, and so
Speaker 4: you couldn't buy into him like that. You couldn't buy
Speaker 4: into when they put him in a tag team with
Speaker 4: with Brutus Beefcake and they were going against what was
Speaker 4: it a Rhythm and blues. You remember that Honckey talking
Speaker 4: Greg the Hammer Valentine. I love Greg.
Speaker 3: He did not look good as a brunant. Let's way.
Speaker 4: Remember Gorilla Monsoon used to call him Bucks car Willie.
Speaker 4: I loved it. I loved that.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'll tell you what you bring up monson. One
Speaker 1: guy that I wish for many reasons that he still around,
Speaker 1: Bobby Heenan. But I can't say I wouldn't love to
Speaker 1: have heard you know. You know, Bobby would have had
Speaker 1: a great one liner after hearing the Hogan to day.
Speaker 3: You would have had something really funny to say.
Speaker 4: Well, that's That's the one thing that people never had
Speaker 4: realized is the fact that Hogan never had a foil.
Speaker 4: It was always Bobby Heenan finding people to go after him.
Speaker 4: That was his Foil that was his enemy. It wasn't
Speaker 4: Andre because they worked program.
Speaker 1: You talk about you talk about long term storytelling, you
Speaker 1: take it right up from WWF from all the Heenan
Speaker 1: family guys going after him Andre.
Speaker 3: Obviously, Heenan always did even when he got to the WCW.
Speaker 1: He would always favor some of the guys that he
Speaker 1: used to manage, Rick Rude and Kurt Handing of those
Speaker 1: guys in WCW. But always kept up the anti Hogan
Speaker 1: thing to the point that if you remember Bash at
Speaker 1: the Beach, the famous turn, everybody people still do this
Speaker 1: day think that like, oh, Heenan screwed up up and
Speaker 1: he gave away the ending of what was going to
Speaker 1: happen because he's walking down into the ring Hogan and
Speaker 1: there's yellow and yellow and red and here comes Hogan
Speaker 1: and then the Heenen goes.
Speaker 3: But whose side is he on? Which is I mean, heen.
Speaker 1: Is one of the greatest minds in wrestling, and he gosh,
Speaker 1: like a little thing like that makes another an iconic
Speaker 1: moment just.
Speaker 3: A little bit better.
Speaker 4: Just the second he dropped the second he dropped the leg,
Speaker 4: Keenan goes. I told you this for years. Everybody something
Speaker 4: like that. It was like I told you this for years.
Speaker 3: Rest in peace.
Speaker 4: He is he is. It was his vendetta against Hogan.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: And so another Hogan fact is that people don't know
Speaker 4: that Bobby Heenen used to manage Nick Bockwinkle in the
Speaker 4: A w A and that was the one man that
Speaker 4: Hogan could not beat and Nick b Yeah, he could
Speaker 4: not beat Nick.
Speaker 1: Bocke, the one guy that Hogan could not convince. You know, well, Burn,
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm going to do that.
Speaker 4: He couldn't do it. He might have went over him
Speaker 4: in like a dusty finish or something like that, but
Speaker 4: the title always stayed on Nick Bockwinkle. And then when
Speaker 4: Nick Bockwinkle had a chance to jump to the WWF,
Speaker 4: which he did in the eighties, and I was shocked
Speaker 4: because I was like, he was the AWA champion like
Speaker 4: three weeks ago. He's on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, his legacy in WWF obviously pals.
Speaker 1: You know, it never really got to that point on
Speaker 1: a cultural level either.
Speaker 4: It was a different time. We're going to the cartoon
Speaker 4: era of wrestling, and aw A was going bankrupt. I
Speaker 4: hate to say it, and this is not me bad
Speaker 4: mouthing the company because I liked a lot of the
Speaker 4: early stuff in the aw.
Speaker 1: A son had his problems later in the in that
Speaker 1: run as far as booking and all that. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's really that disputed.
Speaker 4: So many people, like I said, they didn't know that
Speaker 4: Hogan was the original idea UGP champion, the original belt version,
Speaker 4: the very first champion went over Antonioki in New Japan. Hulkogan.
Speaker 4: Now when we draw that back, okay, he controversial, like
Speaker 4: lost the championship. Anoki's gonna do what Anochi wants to do.
Speaker 4: He goes back to the States, Awa bounces right back
Speaker 4: did Rocky, and then goes to WWF. People don't know
Speaker 4: that sometime in the late eighties he went over to
Speaker 4: New Japan and he wrestled the Great Mudha.
Speaker 3: And so that.
Speaker 4: Is one of the most interesting matches to watch in
Speaker 4: your life because you're going to say, that is not
Speaker 4: the same Hulkgan. This is not kick punch, body slam, clothesline,
Speaker 4: leg drop, and call my ear this He actually wrestled.
Speaker 4: And you look at it and you said, Okay, if
Speaker 4: you had this the whole time, do you know how
Speaker 4: much bigger you would have been My.
Speaker 1: Favorite Hulkogan move is the Hulkogan in Japan dropped toe hold.
Speaker 3: Oh, dear lord, I don't think I.
Speaker 1: Ever saw him do a drop toe hold in any
Speaker 1: other match in in the States anyway, you know over here.
Speaker 4: Did you ever see when he wrestled I think it
Speaker 4: might have been Rick Flair in the nineties and instead
Speaker 4: of doing the whole circle around figure four, he actually
Speaker 4: put the guys. I think it was Rick Flair, like
Speaker 4: put his feet into the four, then stepped in it,
Speaker 4: slowly stepped over and then fell down. And my brother
Speaker 4: and I were watching that, and he and I have
Speaker 4: been watching since eighty four. We're just like, what now,
Speaker 4: with this being said, you could say good things or
Speaker 4: bad things about Hull Cocain. He's wrestled everybody, and he
Speaker 4: has put over some legends. He has under duress, put
Speaker 4: over Rick Flair. He has on his way loud yes, yes,
Speaker 4: with a bash in the head with a chair from
Speaker 4: Eric Bischoff. Yeah, but that was I mean, they were
Speaker 4: trying to make him into stone cold at that point.
Speaker 4: It was just like no, no, yeah, Bill Billy Kidman, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I loved him back then, but it was just it
Speaker 4: was just different. You know, we look at different times.
Speaker 1: Weird thing to look back on now as an adult
Speaker 1: and go billy kidman against Hogan. That's I seem to
Speaker 1: remember watching it when I was like, you know, fourteen,
Speaker 1: But this is a weird one.
Speaker 4: It was just one of those deals, you know, like
Speaker 4: that's when Vince Russo came in and Eric Bischoff, of
Speaker 4: course he had his lips firmly planted on Hogan's and
Speaker 4: that's a posterior by the way, and it just it
Speaker 4: just didn't make sense it I.
Speaker 1: Hadn't venturing in the late nineties w CW territory. There's
Speaker 1: a you could you could write a bible with those stories.
Speaker 4: But oh, you and I could go all night on
Speaker 4: this kind of stuff. But the fact is, at one
Speaker 4: point the train had left.
Speaker 3: This is why the companies in the state that it's in.
Speaker 4: Brother and anybody who has concreative control over their own
Speaker 4: contract ruins wrestling. There should be no such thing. And
Speaker 4: then you had the so called Russo Is it a shoot?
Speaker 3: Is it not?
Speaker 4: I don't even care at this point. And then you
Speaker 4: have the whole situation with w W going under. And
Speaker 4: I always thought the best way for the last episode
Speaker 4: is Hogan, Paul and Nash go up and shake Fence
Speaker 4: McMahon's hands like they really were invaders to say, well,
Speaker 4: we didn't do it our way, but we got it
Speaker 4: done for you, boss. That could have been one of
Speaker 4: the most overstories ever.
Speaker 3: And it than what they ended up doing. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that's I never thought of it that way, you know.
Speaker 4: Actually my brother thought about that like it was the
Speaker 4: best way they could do it instead of the way
Speaker 4: they did it at the end. But it Hogan being
Speaker 4: the leader of the nWo, like the original nWo, there's
Speaker 4: only one third left. It's crazy. It's crazy to think
Speaker 4: about that. And then when he turned heel like you
Speaker 4: were talking about, like Bash of the Beach and everything else.
Speaker 4: I never thought I would see that. In fact, we
Speaker 4: just we had like the little cheap boxes on our televisions. Okay,
Speaker 4: we had cheap boxes and so we kind of illegally,
Speaker 4: I mean statute of limitations so we get pay per view.
Speaker 4: But I had to work that day. I was a
Speaker 4: young kid. I was like, I don't know, nineteen or
Speaker 4: something like that, and I worked my summer job and
Speaker 4: I'm just working and working, and I got home and
Speaker 4: my good friend who were going to dedicate a show
Speaker 4: too soon. Scott Blair calls me, he is did you
Speaker 4: hear what happened? And I was like no, he's like
Speaker 4: Hogan turned heel. I didn't believe him. I did not
Speaker 4: believe him. And he's like, yeah, he's like Hogan turned
Speaker 4: heel today. And so Nitro went from okay because Raw
Speaker 4: was terrible at that time. You had all the gimmicks,
Speaker 4: so you just watched it and you had this more
Speaker 4: gritty your product. But he was part of that and
Speaker 4: if he didn't say yes, it was gonna be sting.
Speaker 4: But he said yes, I'll do it.
Speaker 1: And I got that would have we're saying with sting
Speaker 1: in that place, not saying that Steve Worton couldn't do it,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure that it works, you know, the
Speaker 1: way that they really wanted to work to make it,
Speaker 1: make it as impactful as it was.
Speaker 4: It was very impactful. It was it was everybody. It
Speaker 4: was water cooler talk. I hate to say it's something
Speaker 4: like that, like, I mean.
Speaker 1: You set up that next whatever year, year and a
Speaker 1: half bill to star K ninety seven that they royally
Speaker 1: screw up, but nonetheless.
Speaker 4: Eighty three weeks eighty three weeks and Vince had never
Speaker 4: been spanked like that before and he could not understand it.
Speaker 4: And that's that's what made it so beautiful because growing
Speaker 4: up as an NWA to w W fan and then
Speaker 4: when Hogan got there, I was just suppressed because I
Speaker 4: was like, you have talent like Vader and Rick Flair
Speaker 4: and Ronson and all these people have to go under
Speaker 4: for him, and I'm like, did you had your time?
Speaker 4: You have TV shows and your movie suck?
Speaker 3: They did they suck?
Speaker 4: Okay, well we're going to talk about that. So this
Speaker 4: is what I want to say. So Hull cocin. I
Speaker 4: did own a Hull cokein T shirt in nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 4: Oh it was it was orange yellow. Yes, it was
Speaker 4: Hull Comania right across it. And I probably weighed about
Speaker 4: eighty pounds. So yeah, I was really filling that out
Speaker 4: for him. But it's the fact that if it wasn't
Speaker 4: for him, Vince McMahon wouldn't have had the vision or
Speaker 4: the superstar to create the next level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, arguably, no rock and the rock and wrestling connection,
Speaker 1: which is really what springboarded springboard whatever.
Speaker 3: The gold it was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, the rock and wrestling connection was the biggest
Speaker 4: part of creating what was going to be the Golden era.
Speaker 4: Cindy Lappers Here, Ozzy Osbourne's here, Alice Cooper is here.
Speaker 4: People forget about that. Alice Cooper in wrestlmating I think
Speaker 4: it was three was in Jacob Snake's corner. People forget
Speaker 4: about this stuff. But it was Hogan who did this,
Speaker 4: and I think actually the genius mind behind it was
Speaker 4: Jimmy Hart.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he had a lot to do with that.
Speaker 4: Well, they paired up with uh, what was his name,
Speaker 4: Rick Dillinger and they did the wrestling albums.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it.
Speaker 4: And I know everybody who's listening is like saying, okay.
Speaker 3: Who also just passed away a couple of months ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so this is I didn't even think about
Speaker 1: that until just now, and it's like, well, just not
Speaker 1: that long ago.
Speaker 3: You lose the guy that made the Real American.
Speaker 1: Which just saying is got to be one of the
Speaker 1: best insurance themes out there.
Speaker 4: And you're the only guy who could answer this. Who
Speaker 4: was it originally for?
Speaker 3: I don't know if I know that one actually the
Speaker 3: original the song was originally for, not for Hogan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was not for Hogan. He came out to
Speaker 4: the Tiger. He came out to Eye of the Tiger
Speaker 4: because they had all that Rocky all that that that
Speaker 4: Rocky three momentum. This is really cool.
Speaker 1: I knew that was the case, but I did not
Speaker 1: know they intended to use the Darringer song for somebody else.
Speaker 4: It was the US Express, Mike Rotunda and Barry would
Speaker 4: It was their theme song. And then Barry left. They
Speaker 4: reformed the team with Dan Spivey, changed their theme and
Speaker 4: gave it to Whole Cocin. I'm a real mayor Rickan.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Like I haven't really sat down since he died to
Speaker 1: do this yet, but I have in the past. You know,
Speaker 1: go back and watch some older matches and again, you know,
Speaker 1: go back to wrestlemany three.
Speaker 3: Uh, he's gotten.
Speaker 1: He was one of the only guys that even had music.
Speaker 1: Even at that point. There wasn't a lot of guys
Speaker 1: that were doing it. But Andrey comes out with uh,
Speaker 1: heenan and the music hits, and I mean, that's whatever.
Speaker 3: Me and Jean said.
Speaker 1: That was sixty nine seventy something thousand people whatever.
Speaker 4: Ninety thousand, like, yeah, ninety thousand. I think they say
Speaker 4: it was just like mind blowing, like how goofy it was.
Speaker 4: But in the end, what I want to say about
Speaker 4: Hull Cogan is I was a kid. It was nineteen
Speaker 4: eighty four, and I was really into wrestling because I
Speaker 4: met a friend named Heath Tittle, And to this day,
Speaker 4: I will I should probably sign off on this a lot. Heath,
Speaker 4: if you ever listen to this, you gave me this sickness.
Speaker 4: You can never take it away. We went to a
Speaker 4: book fair. We bought these books. I've said this on
Speaker 4: other shows, and there was one that was like an
Speaker 4: encyclopedia wrestling, and I memorized the whole thing. And I
Speaker 4: would watch Territory wrestling because in Cleveland we had that
Speaker 4: and it was so awesome. But Hogan was every Hogan. Hogan, Hogan, Hogan,
Speaker 4: hope you look up in the sky instead of the
Speaker 4: bat symbol, you see Hogan. That's what Vince McMahon did.
Speaker 4: But he knew how to make a national expansion, and
Speaker 4: he put it on the back and a huge back
Speaker 4: of a bleach blonde guy with a receding hairline who
Speaker 4: is a mediocre wrestler at best. And that's what they
Speaker 4: did now before we close out, before Hogan passed, he
Speaker 4: said a couple of interesting things. Would you like to
Speaker 4: touch on that, Sean.
Speaker 1: Hip, we must just right before we do that, you know,
Speaker 1: I get something good out, like you were saying, goes
Speaker 1: without it goes without saying.
Speaker 3: I mean we kind of joked on it earlier that you.
Speaker 1: Go off and list this guy and list this other
Speaker 1: guy and go off on tenons. And we could probably
Speaker 1: do this for four hours but or longer. But I
Speaker 1: think that it is an example.
Speaker 3: Showing just how big he is.
Speaker 1: I won't even say it was because I even think
Speaker 1: still for this day, it still a massive piece of
Speaker 1: pro wrestling.
Speaker 3: And you can't really at the end.
Speaker 1: Of the day talk about very much from the last
Speaker 1: you know, forty years or so in pro wrestling without
Speaker 1: it in some way being, if not connected, you know,
Speaker 1: somewhat tertiarily related to hul Cogan. That's how huge he
Speaker 1: was and even remains. Again, I just don't think there's
Speaker 1: really any denying that despite some.
Speaker 3: Of the problematic things that.
Speaker 1: Have happened since his career ended, and we all know,
Speaker 1: and you know, you look back on it now and
Speaker 1: it's a little you know, sad. We don't want to
Speaker 1: imagine going through you know, your last real big public
Speaker 1: appearance like it was that the was it the first
Speaker 1: Netflix showing overall, and he got booed out of the building.
Speaker 1: You know, the Maga stuff obviously, the racial stuff that
Speaker 1: was involved with the bubblah, the love sponge.
Speaker 3: You know, if you want to get really political, you know.
Speaker 4: Now don't we don't do programs on the.
Speaker 1: Show, no, but just mentioning to the taking down Galker,
Speaker 1: you know, with Peter Teel and all of that, the
Speaker 1: sex tape case, to even stuff that was in his career.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jesse Venture talks a lot about how Hogan
Speaker 1: really scuffled their attempt to unionize the wrestlers, which you
Speaker 1: could argue would have a negative or a positive impact
Speaker 1: on the industry as a whole. Obviously, Hogan stood to
Speaker 1: gain less by that happening, and he used his you know,
Speaker 1: power and influence to uh to rat a Venture out
Speaker 1: and squash that.
Speaker 3: And he'd squashed, you know, cut.
Speaker 1: The legs off of a lot of other guys who
Speaker 1: may or again may not have been deserving to kind
Speaker 1: of take that you know, that torch.
Speaker 3: To the next to the next level. But that's what happened.
Speaker 1: And I just again it comes back to him being
Speaker 1: such an iconic figure in this industry that even so
Speaker 1: many negative things can be said about his character, you know,
Speaker 1: not so much the Hogan character, but behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: the politicker, you know, the guy you know, looking out
Speaker 1: for himself more so than some of his you know,
Speaker 1: the stuff with Randy Savage. It's it's a very complicated person,
Speaker 1: Terry Bolea.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the he is still a person.
Speaker 3: You know. I don't love the guy.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's an evil person. That's a pretty
Speaker 1: you know, far stretch. Definitely a got some pretty had
Speaker 1: some pretty bad opinions.
Speaker 3: On a lot of things, but you know, that's that's humans.
Speaker 1: And again I feel, you know, condolences to his family
Speaker 1: and his friends, people that knew him, love them. I'm
Speaker 1: sure they're hurting right now. And you know, as a
Speaker 1: whole industry is pro wrestling.
Speaker 3: We were, We've just lost.
Speaker 1: The biggest icon that probably will ever exist. I don't know,
Speaker 1: if you know, who knows sixty years from now, I
Speaker 1: don't know if anybody can really get to that level
Speaker 1: at this point.
Speaker 4: Again, probably not to be honest, with you. I mean
Speaker 4: Stone Cold and The Rock were the two closest, and
Speaker 4: they did what they did and they sold out a
Speaker 4: lot of things. But as far as Hogan went, I mean, it's.
Speaker 3: Just a different level. It's not it is it really is.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's the It's the Yankees in baseball,
Speaker 1: you know winning, you know twenty seven, you know World Series,
Speaker 1: you know so many more than even the next, you know,
Speaker 1: best team. It's just this industry has one massive icon
Speaker 1: that it can never really get out of the shadow of.
Speaker 1: And that's definitely Hulkogan. Say what you will about Vince
Speaker 1: mcmahonon things going forward. I still think he's kind of
Speaker 1: up there too, but it's not quite the same with him.
Speaker 4: Well, with that, I would I just want to say
Speaker 4: that my movie recommendation of the Night you can wait.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, only for one scene, No hold sparred one.
Speaker 4: Forgive me for telling you to watch that movie.
Speaker 3: Well, I've seen it. I love it.
Speaker 4: Well, it's it is. You know what the scene is,
Speaker 4: doom gees what you That's That's what it all comes
Speaker 4: down to, is what's that smell? Doong geese? That's the
Speaker 4: only Hogan movie you should ever watch. Because anything else
Speaker 4: I don't like, but go ahead, point of order.
Speaker 1: My pick is and will always be Suburban Commando. I'll
Speaker 1: take it to my grave. I love that movie Front
Speaker 1: the Back. It's hilarious. It's hilariously bad.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Christopher Lloyd and Shelby Devaller also in the movie, and
Speaker 1: The Undertaker a young Mark Callaway, Yes, Bruno Undertaker. He
Speaker 1: is a great scene where he finally speaks and he
Speaker 1: says to Chef Ramsey Hogan's character, you're a dead man Ramsey.
Speaker 3: But it's he has the voice of a four year old.
Speaker 4: You're a man.
Speaker 3: No wonder you guys never talked, which is always a
Speaker 3: nice visual. You go back on YouTube that when we
Speaker 3: get done with this, just didn't.
Speaker 4: Have a young voice. He did have a young no, no.
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm they well he probably did, but I
Speaker 1: mean they actually like dubbed a four year old saying
Speaker 1: you're a dead man Ramsey over the Undertaker, you know,
Speaker 1: minding it on screen.
Speaker 4: Who has like the deepest voice, like uh all right.
Speaker 1: And then John for Lloyd shouting that he was frozen today.
Speaker 1: I was frozen today.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 4: Even if Christopher Lloyd does something bad, you can't really
Speaker 4: fault him because he's Christopher Lloyd, because whatever he does
Speaker 4: is good, like Back to the Future, it's just like iconic.
Speaker 1: He played almost like a very scary hobo who might
Speaker 1: be trying to abduct Dennis and Dennis a menace.
Speaker 3: But we all still love Christoph Lloyd.
Speaker 4: And one last fact for you, which you're gonna know
Speaker 4: this because people, I cannot beat Sean at Triview.
Speaker 3: You already you already struck out on that once earlier
Speaker 3: in this in this program, I always do this.
Speaker 4: So what is Shelley Duvall known for as far as
Speaker 4: cinema goes for.
Speaker 1: A cinema, well, good lord, she was in the Shining.
Speaker 3: Popeye got to love that.
Speaker 4: What were to make famous famous?
Speaker 3: What should she make famous famous?
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm?
Speaker 3: Talking about a particular line.
Speaker 4: A particular scene, Yes.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean she passed Jackson over the head of
Speaker 3: the bat.
Speaker 1: That was pretty good reading the letters, you know, which,
Speaker 1: then we could get started on the whole we'll start
Speaker 1: in movies podcast sometimes soon, which you know, Shining is
Speaker 1: a great one and Shelley Didball deserved a ton of
Speaker 1: credit for putting up with you know anyway.
Speaker 4: So it's the scene with the bat. She had the
Speaker 4: most scenes and takes ever in history at the point
Speaker 4: that the Shining was made. It was like one hundred
Speaker 4: and eighty or something like that, because Stanley Kubrick kept saying,
Speaker 4: it doesn't look realistic. When when she was swinging at him,
Speaker 4: he just kept saying, like, stop, take again, take again,
Speaker 4: take again. It doesn't look real like.
Speaker 1: The old It's like the old Phil Spector thing where
Speaker 1: he would get the wrecking crew in there in the
Speaker 1: recording studio and just have them play the same song
Speaker 1: over and.
Speaker 3: Over and over and over again until it felt like
Speaker 3: their arms are going to fall off. What did Shelley Douvall?
Speaker 1: And for pretty much most of that movie, Poor Woman,
Speaker 1: they always feel bad for Shelley Douvall. My favorite was
Speaker 1: always that old TV movie What was It The Mother Goose?
Speaker 1: Uh had all the Howie Mandel's and then Paul Simon,
Speaker 1: Jeane Stapleton, all those guys.
Speaker 3: That's a good one.
Speaker 4: Mother Goose presents.
Speaker 3: Something like that. If she had her own she had
Speaker 3: her own show it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fairy Tale Theater. It was fairy Tale Theater. I
Speaker 4: got you, okay, last thing a song or a food
Speaker 4: that you want to recommend well on.
Speaker 1: This occasion, of all occasions, there can only be two.
Speaker 1: We already talked about Rick Dringers, so that you have
Speaker 1: to go.
Speaker 3: With maybe the coolest insurance music just because the song
Speaker 3: is so cool.
Speaker 1: But Jimmy Hendrix for the nWo Hogan music not the
Speaker 1: end of you ob team music that we all know
Speaker 1: and love. Yeah, Vudu child, And of course the food
Speaker 1: of the day is Postumania.
Speaker 4: Brother, That's that's a pretty pretty awesome, amazing, good put together. Okay,
Speaker 4: So I'm gonna go with my song is probably going
Speaker 4: to be space Hog. In the meantime, it's a song
Speaker 4: from the past. And that's when like the Hogan thing
Speaker 4: was happening, and I was happy to watch like the
Speaker 4: nw actually doing something, and I was actually interested in
Speaker 4: watching Hogan instead of like say your prayers, eat your vitamins.
Speaker 4: I've done that. I'm still one hundred and forty five pounds. Hey,
Speaker 4: I'm just being honest with you, okay, but as you
Speaker 4: can admit, I look good for fifty And you know,
Speaker 4: as far as food goes, I've been thinking about like
Speaker 4: a lot of different recipes lately, and I'm thinking about
Speaker 4: like a different version of a sloppy Joe because it's
Speaker 4: gonna be tailgating seasoned soon. It's called a sloppy Jose.
Speaker 4: And so you ground your meat and you make all
Speaker 4: your sauce, but you boil your sauce and cherry tomatoes
Speaker 4: and everything else and you ground it up. But you
Speaker 4: throw in two shots of tequila, which I'm not a
Speaker 4: big fan of, but it works in this recipe. And
Speaker 4: then you use a lot of Mexican spices and a
Speaker 4: pinch of molet. And I'm gonna tell you what, having
Speaker 4: a sloppy Jose is a really good sandwich. It's a
Speaker 4: really really good sandwich.
Speaker 3: So it sounds all right, it needs a better name.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4: That's just what I discovered it as like YouTube.
Speaker 2: You know me.
Speaker 4: As far as.
Speaker 1: I'm not putting sloppy Jose in YouTube, I'm sore on
Speaker 1: any search engine.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry gonna do it. It's really get to me.
Speaker 4: With that one, brother, Okay, as far as that at
Speaker 4: one four four captain on X, that's how you could
Speaker 4: reach me.
Speaker 3: Sean, nobody can reach me. Don't try.
Speaker 4: God, I love you, but I can reach you. So
Speaker 4: aside from that, Jimmy rock it out. That's