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Speaker 1: So you've been there yet. Ero dot Net a r

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r oe dot net. There are so many podcasts to

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choose from, seventeen total, all with different subjects, all with

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different ideas. It's time to grow forward. Put your voice

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and your ears out there. A r oe dot Net.

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Erocollins podcasting What's going on? Rockstar? I'm just hanging out

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with a man who likes to interview killers.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing fantastic, David.

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Speaker 2: How about you, sir, I'm good, Thanks so much for

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having me.

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Speaker 1: On, David. I'll tell you what. I'm that guy that

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will go to a place where somebody has transitioned me,

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whether they've lost their life in a car accident, murder, whatever.

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In fact, I sat in the same room where my

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wife's mother was murdered. But God, I do not have

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any clue how you do what you do because these

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people scare the crap out of me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well for good reason, and me too. You know

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I'm not claiming to you know, do this without trepidation.

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Speaker 2: Uh. In fact, the premiere episode of.

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Speaker 3: The new season features a guy named Adam Curtis Williams,

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Who's the scariest one I've faced so far. I mean

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even behind glass, this guy cuts an intimidating figure, a large,

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powerful man, ink on his scalp, on his face, you know,

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basically warning is not to not to cross him. A

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lifetime of vicious, violent crimes. And now he claims to

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have found Jesus in jail and uh, and so we

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take him the task and and and really really press

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him on whether you know that is an act of

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conversion or an act of convenience, given his his his

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record of inhumanity, and so I you know, I think,

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you know, part of the magic of this show is

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is our ability to you know, to bring the viewer

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face to face with with the purpose traders and to

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rake them over the coals. Like everything on Court TV,

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this show is ultimately about justice, and we go out

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every time to try and increase the public knowledge of

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these cases first and foremost that's our job as journalists,

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and to serve up some justice in the court of

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public opinion.

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Speaker 1: What's really interesting about this is the fact that you

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have a story such as Adams and you go in

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there and I think the thing is is that ninety

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percent of us would like to be in that courtroom

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during that court case. But we're not going to get there,

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but my god, David, you take us up close and personal.

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We're not just sitting in a courtroom. We're sitting there

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listening to vocal tones, to pitch, volume and tone.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. And you know, just the process

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of entering the environment, right like you know the nether

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world that is the super max prison. You know, you

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walk in to what they call the sally port. You know,

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it's an area about the size of a big elevator.

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One door doesn't open until the other one closes. That's

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like basically the portal to this nether world of prison.

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And then as soon as you leave the portal, you

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see a sign that says no hostages beyond this point. Okay, well,

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that's your final warning that if anything goes sideways, there's

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no rescue. There's no rescue coming for you. These are

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combustible environments. You know, very often the inmates outnumber of guards,

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you know, sometimes by forty to one, and the guards

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are for the most part unarmed, policing the worst of

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the worst. So you can imagine, you know, you could

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cut the tension with a knife in many of these places,

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and we have you know, very often exactly sixty second

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sixty minutes, in which time we have to penetrate the

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killer's spin and defenses.

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Speaker 2: Very often they.

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Speaker 3: Come in with, you know, having told themselves and cultimate

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reality of the case, and then penetrate their their heads.

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And you know, as a journalist, there's there's no greater challenge.

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But I'm convinced that there is a lot of public

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good to be learned. You know, if we want to

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fight these crimes, then we have to understand them.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I really pick off on

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immediately is the fact that it's like when you're sitting

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down with somebody who has murdered and you are in

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the shoes that you're wearing the journalists. But I believe

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you're more than that, because because you speak to wins

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that I can't hear. But the thing is, though, is

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that it's two silent wolves together. You're both very much

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aware of facial expressions, body language, the m mysphere of

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where you're sitting, and it's like, man, that's two amazing

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energies meeting in one room. Is it trust or is

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it our I'm going to play a game of chess

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with you, and I'm going to see if I can

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win it.

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Speaker 2: It's chess. Very often it is chess.

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Speaker 3: Once in a while we get a killer who's really

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ready to come clean. I interviewed a you know, a

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thirty year old man in Florida last year who, when

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he was seventeen inexplicably bludgeoned both of his parents with

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a hammer. Now, at thirty, he's looking back at his

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teenage self and trying to make sense of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, he's you.

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Speaker 3: Know, he is now really trying to bear his soul

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for his own purposes. He's trying to understand his own behavior.

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So that becomes one kind of conversation where the person

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is essentially revealing themselves.

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Speaker 2: Then on the other end of the spectrum.

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Speaker 3: You know, we have people who deny their crimes even

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though their guilt is certain, and in that case we

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work very hard to expose them. It takes about one

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hundred hours to prepare for one of these interviews. I

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know everything that is knowable when I walk into that room,

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and that's also part of the essential formula, because you know,

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they've been telling themselves an alternate story of these crimes very.

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Speaker 2: Often, you know, for years and years and years.

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Speaker 3: I need to know every detail so that I can

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unspin the spin and that's the chess part that you're

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talking about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, it still takes courage and confidence

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to be able to look at the notes that you've

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got or the research that you put into it. You

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said one hundred hours into it, I mean, and to

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be able to look at whatever you put on that page,

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and you've got to trust it because who you were

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in that research and who you are in that interview

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two completely different people.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well that's true, that's true.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, and this is where you know it.

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The stakes are so high. You know, there are a

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lot of TV shows that are composed of multiple elements.

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This is a show that really is about the interview,

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and and so the interview goes sideways. We don't have

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a show, and it's a lot of pressure on the team.

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Usually they let you know, just three of us in myself,

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a photographer, and a producer, and we are you know,

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we're we're almost holding our breaths the whole time that

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that you know that the thing.

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Speaker 2: Comes comes off because so many things can.

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Speaker 3: Can can go wrong, and do we've we've lost interviews,

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you know, because the perpetrator you know, checks with his lawyer,

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or checks with his psychiatrist, or does something stupid and

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gets put in in confinement or something else happens in

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the prison, and you know, and there's a security threat.

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There's so many things that that that can go wrong,

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and and and we, you know, we we navigate around

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those things because we think, we think it's important to

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engage with the perpetrator of these crimes so that we

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can better understand them.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with David Scott coming

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up next. Court TV is the place to be. The

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show is called Interview with a Killer. We are back

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with David Scott. It's so interesting when you when you

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talk about when when interviews go wrong, because I call

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that a missed opportunity. In fact, I've turned that into

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an iHeartRadio show because it's like, Okay, if I don't

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have their answers, I'm still gonna give the world my questions,

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and god dang if I wouldn't, I would love to

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hear this from you. I would love to know what

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your research is. I don't have to have the answers.

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I want to know what you found so that I

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can sit there and inside my imagination I can sit

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there and go, this is how they would have answered it.

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Oh yeah, man, give David kudos on this one.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what, You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes the questions are are better than the answers, more

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revealing than the answers, but still the process of questioning right,

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and how they'll respond to the questioning, you know, even

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if they have no no intention of telling the truth,

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how they respond to the questioning is really what's revealing.

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Speaker 2: And uh.

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Speaker 3: And you know this is where TV becomes a kind

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of lie detector. And you know, we ultimately will let

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the viewers decide what they what they think, you know,

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is Adam Williams religious epiphany, you know, genuine or not.

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Speaker 2: We'll let you know. We'll let you, guys decide what

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what what you think. Our job is to.

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Speaker 3: Go in there and and you know, boldly confront them

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with with the with the questions. And you know, there's

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there's too little of that left on on on on.

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Speaker 2: TV and in in in my view.

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Speaker 3: And and that's you know, one of the reasons I'm

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doing this show is that it really it takes place

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to some of my strength and you know, a career

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full of interviewing dictators and politicians and you know, all

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manner of man. It turned out to be very good

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preparation for facing this this community of interview subjects.

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Speaker 1: How do you keep your stuff together? And the reason

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why I bring that up is because you know the

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story of Adam and him confessing that he found Jesus

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in prison. Immediately took me to my brother who said

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the same exact thing, except I didn't hold back. I

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looked at him and said, you mean to tell me

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that I've been taking notes every single Sunday, tithing every

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Sunday in my community, every single week, every day, and

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you find God in prison. But yet I'm out here

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busting my tale every day and I have to sit

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here in question. And so but man, if you did

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something like that, you'd piss him off, wouldn't you.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know I have I have. I'm a human being.

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I have lots of emotions. I have lots of anger.

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Speaker 3: But but you know, but you do learn as a journalist,

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you know, a discipline to some people call it compartmentalizing. Right,

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So when we go in the room, it's all about

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getting you know, it's all about what we what we

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need to make the show work, which is we need

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to get inside their head and so so very you know,

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it takes some dial I don't come in, I don't.

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I don't come in swinging, you know, I come in.

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The first part of the interview is generally, you know,

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a very sort of mild mannered, convious, you know, probing

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of the person's background, because in the background there are

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almost always poor tends of the crime to come right.

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And and so we you know, we start with that

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and uh, and then we ratchet up the pressure and

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you know, ultimately, once once the killer has you know,

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sufficiently talked to me through the TikTok of the crime

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and their backstory, ultimately, you know, we we do hit

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them with with some some very uncomfortable questions. But but yeah,

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it is the it is the process that that that

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reveals and and and it is this process that really

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is the spine of our show and what makes it.

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Speaker 2: Different and basically everything else in the true crime genre.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think it's because we as viewers want to

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see them sweat, we want to see them wiggle, we

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want to see them get so uncomfortable because they made

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a lot of families and communities uncomfortable with what they did.

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I want to see them sweat right there in front

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of you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's I think that's fair.

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Speaker 3: I think you know, you know, our viewers want justice,

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and our our job is to is to hold these

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people to account and U and you know a lot

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of people don't like to ask uncomfortable questions.

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Speaker 2: I happen to have something of a talent for it,

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as do you.

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Speaker 3: But but you know, but this is really an exercise

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and journalism and accountability. And as I say, you know,

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we're trying to serve up some justice in the court

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of public opinion. We don't have the kind of constraints

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that the court of law has. We can probe about,

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you know, prior crimes in a way that is often

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inadmissible in in in court trials. And and you know,

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we will go so far beyond the record, essentially conducting

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our own background investigation so that we, you know, we

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can really put the screws to them when when we

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need to.

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Speaker 1: How do you keep the inside of your investigative reporting clean?

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And what I mean by that is is the fact

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that I've always been told my entire life, if you

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surround yourself with evil, you then become evil. And I

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sit here, and I'm David. I'm sitting here thinking, how

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are you talking to all of these killers? And their

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evilness is not seeping into your ears, your nose, your eyes.

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Speaker 2: Well, it does seep in, does seep in?

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Speaker 3: And uh and and trust me and my psyche is

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working over time to process the horrible all the horrible

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details of this. You know, harder than harder than than

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than facing the killers is living with you know, all

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of the imprints of the crime scene photos and the

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gory details, and you know, and all the the the

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information that that you absorbed in the preparation process. You know,

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that's the stuff that's hard to that's that's really hard

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to live down. I still see in my in my

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mind's eye, you know, these images, like you know, the

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first interview I did was the honor killing, the so

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called honor killing of two teenage girls by their own

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father in Texas.

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Speaker 2: And and I'll never forget.

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Speaker 3: I'll never forget the sound of you know, the teenage

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girl's voices she's you know, using her last breath to to.

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Speaker 2: Call nine to one one, Or the way.

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Speaker 3: That her slight figure slumped down in the taxi cab

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after he after he shot them I mean they're they're

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you know, my, my, my, my. Psyche works over time

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to process this stuff. But but you know, that's the

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stuff that that's hard to.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to live down.

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Speaker 3: You know, all the glory details where the devil does

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as well. And and you know, we're our minds are

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are are infinitely elastic, and so we're able to, you know,

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somehow live with all of this tumult. But but I'm

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well aware of the price that that I'm personally paying

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to to bring these stories to the to the audience.

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I just believe there's a greater good involved in and

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that it's worth, you know, taking a metaphorical bullet war.

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Speaker 1: But when you have a story that includes Rachel Wade,

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I mean the inner father in me would sit there

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and say, Rachel teenager, love triangle, it was all there.

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You've seen it on Dynasty, You've seen it on General

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Hospital when there's a love triangle. We're in trouble and

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you got in trouble.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, your heart does go out to

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people like the parents of a teenager who does such.

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Speaker 2: A terrible thing.

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Speaker 3: Fin all accounts, Rachel Wade's parents were lovely people, were

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good parents. They tried very very hard in those early

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teenage years when she kind of lost her mind. And

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I mean I think I think they called her. They

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called the police on her thirty times she ran away,

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and you know they're sitting in the courtroom. You could

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see their hearts are broken. So and as a parent,

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you know, look, I mean, you have kids, you have teenagers.

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You learn that the teenage brain can can do some

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you know, very strange things.

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Speaker 2: We've seen it on this show. Uh, And you know, your.

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Speaker 3: Heart, your heart does go out to the part of

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the you know, of of the community that has changed

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forever by these crimes. You know, are the relatives of

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the of the the killers that have to now live

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with it.

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Speaker 2: They have to live with it. Also, you know, this.

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Speaker 1: Is like a new age of horror, only because I

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do feel it. It's like when Tom Schneider he interviewed

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you know, Charles Manson, I to this day feel the

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horror in my heart and and and so when I

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see this kind of stuff and you're talking with with

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someone you know, like like the code killer Benjamin, it's

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freaking me out, but I can't tune out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's grim stuff. It's dark stuff,

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but it's interesting stuff. And I think you know, people

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are naturally fast by these crimes. This is the ultimate

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betrayal of humanity. How could anyone do it? They are

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unthinkable crimes. It's impossible to imagine yourself, you know, doing

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doing virtually you know any of them. But but you know,

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we we have a need to understand it. I mean,

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think of it in the in the scripted, in the

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fictional context. You know, everyone's fascinated by murder. Like most sitcoms,

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most comedies, most you know, novels seem to to turn

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on on on crimes like these, and and and everybody

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is engaging with with with that subject matter in the

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in the in the scripted, fictional context. But the true

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crime audience, you know, they they go, they go further.

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They want to they want it to be real. They're

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not afraid to face the you know, the the dark

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reaches of the human mind. In fact, you know, they're

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compelled to understand it. And and you know, those are

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the people that.

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Speaker 2: Were that were really programming for.

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Speaker 3: You know, but you don't have to be a hardcore

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food crime fan to to I think you know, appreciate

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and and enjoy the show's it's full of insights about

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the human condition, and and those insights I think are

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our universal.

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Speaker 1: Well, you are definitely not an armchair quarterback, dude. I

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mean you definitely get into this game and you put

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that ball down there in the one yard line and score.

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I mean you really have with this brand new season.

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Speaker 2: My god, thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: Really appreciate the encouragement. And you know, long as long

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as folks slots, we'll keep trying to do it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you got to come back to the show anytime

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in the future. Twenty minutes with you, David is not enough.

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We haven't even scratched the surface yet. But we're going

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to get I.

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Speaker 2: Know, all right, sounds sounds good, sounds good.

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Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?

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Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much, really appreciate it.