Speaker 1: So you've been there yet. Ero dot Net a r
r oe dot net. There are so many podcasts to
choose from, seventeen total, all with different subjects, all with
different ideas. It's time to grow forward. Put your voice
and your ears out there. A r oe dot Net.
Erocollins podcasting What's going on? Rockstar? I'm just hanging out
with a man who likes to interview killers.
Speaker 2: Good morning, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing fantastic, David.
Speaker 2: How about you, sir, I'm good, Thanks so much for
having me.
Speaker 1: On, David. I'll tell you what. I'm that guy that
will go to a place where somebody has transitioned me,
whether they've lost their life in a car accident, murder, whatever.
In fact, I sat in the same room where my
wife's mother was murdered. But God, I do not have
any clue how you do what you do because these
people scare the crap out of me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well for good reason, and me too. You know
I'm not claiming to you know, do this without trepidation.
Speaker 2: Uh. In fact, the premiere episode of.
Speaker 3: The new season features a guy named Adam Curtis Williams,
Who's the scariest one I've faced so far. I mean
even behind glass, this guy cuts an intimidating figure, a large,
powerful man, ink on his scalp, on his face, you know,
basically warning is not to not to cross him. A
lifetime of vicious, violent crimes. And now he claims to
have found Jesus in jail and uh, and so we
take him the task and and and really really press
him on whether you know that is an act of
conversion or an act of convenience, given his his his
record of inhumanity, and so I you know, I think,
you know, part of the magic of this show is
is our ability to you know, to bring the viewer
face to face with with the purpose traders and to
rake them over the coals. Like everything on Court TV,
this show is ultimately about justice, and we go out
every time to try and increase the public knowledge of
these cases first and foremost that's our job as journalists,
and to serve up some justice in the court of
public opinion.
Speaker 1: What's really interesting about this is the fact that you
have a story such as Adams and you go in
there and I think the thing is is that ninety
percent of us would like to be in that courtroom
during that court case. But we're not going to get there,
but my god, David, you take us up close and personal.
We're not just sitting in a courtroom. We're sitting there
listening to vocal tones, to pitch, volume and tone.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. And you know, just the process
of entering the environment, right like you know the nether
world that is the super max prison. You know, you
walk in to what they call the sally port. You know,
it's an area about the size of a big elevator.
One door doesn't open until the other one closes. That's
like basically the portal to this nether world of prison.
And then as soon as you leave the portal, you
see a sign that says no hostages beyond this point. Okay, well,
that's your final warning that if anything goes sideways, there's
no rescue. There's no rescue coming for you. These are
combustible environments. You know, very often the inmates outnumber of guards,
you know, sometimes by forty to one, and the guards
are for the most part unarmed, policing the worst of
the worst. So you can imagine, you know, you could
cut the tension with a knife in many of these places,
and we have you know, very often exactly sixty second
sixty minutes, in which time we have to penetrate the
killer's spin and defenses.
Speaker 2: Very often they.
Speaker 3: Come in with, you know, having told themselves and cultimate
reality of the case, and then penetrate their their heads.
And you know, as a journalist, there's there's no greater challenge.
But I'm convinced that there is a lot of public
good to be learned. You know, if we want to
fight these crimes, then we have to understand them.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I really pick off on
immediately is the fact that it's like when you're sitting
down with somebody who has murdered and you are in
the shoes that you're wearing the journalists. But I believe
you're more than that, because because you speak to wins
that I can't hear. But the thing is, though, is
that it's two silent wolves together. You're both very much
aware of facial expressions, body language, the m mysphere of
where you're sitting, and it's like, man, that's two amazing
energies meeting in one room. Is it trust or is
it our I'm going to play a game of chess
with you, and I'm going to see if I can
win it.
Speaker 2: It's chess. Very often it is chess.
Speaker 3: Once in a while we get a killer who's really
ready to come clean. I interviewed a you know, a
thirty year old man in Florida last year who, when
he was seventeen inexplicably bludgeoned both of his parents with
a hammer. Now, at thirty, he's looking back at his
teenage self and trying to make sense of it.
Speaker 2: Well, he's you.
Speaker 3: Know, he is now really trying to bear his soul
for his own purposes. He's trying to understand his own behavior.
So that becomes one kind of conversation where the person
is essentially revealing themselves.
Speaker 2: Then on the other end of the spectrum.
Speaker 3: You know, we have people who deny their crimes even
though their guilt is certain, and in that case we
work very hard to expose them. It takes about one
hundred hours to prepare for one of these interviews. I
know everything that is knowable when I walk into that room,
and that's also part of the essential formula, because you know,
they've been telling themselves an alternate story of these crimes very.
Speaker 2: Often, you know, for years and years and years.
Speaker 3: I need to know every detail so that I can
unspin the spin and that's the chess part that you're
talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, it still takes courage and confidence
to be able to look at the notes that you've
got or the research that you put into it. You
said one hundred hours into it, I mean, and to
be able to look at whatever you put on that page,
and you've got to trust it because who you were
in that research and who you are in that interview
two completely different people.
Speaker 2: Yes, well that's true, that's true.
Speaker 3: It's you know, and this is where you know it.
The stakes are so high. You know, there are a
lot of TV shows that are composed of multiple elements.
This is a show that really is about the interview,
and and so the interview goes sideways. We don't have
a show, and it's a lot of pressure on the team.
Usually they let you know, just three of us in myself,
a photographer, and a producer, and we are you know,
we're we're almost holding our breaths the whole time that
that you know that the thing.
Speaker 2: Comes comes off because so many things can.
Speaker 3: Can can go wrong, and do we've we've lost interviews,
you know, because the perpetrator you know, checks with his lawyer,
or checks with his psychiatrist, or does something stupid and
gets put in in confinement or something else happens in
the prison, and you know, and there's a security threat.
There's so many things that that that can go wrong,
and and and we, you know, we we navigate around
those things because we think, we think it's important to
engage with the perpetrator of these crimes so that we
can better understand them.
Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with David Scott coming
up next. Court TV is the place to be. The
show is called Interview with a Killer. We are back
with David Scott. It's so interesting when you when you
talk about when when interviews go wrong, because I call
that a missed opportunity. In fact, I've turned that into
an iHeartRadio show because it's like, Okay, if I don't
have their answers, I'm still gonna give the world my questions,
and god dang if I wouldn't, I would love to
hear this from you. I would love to know what
your research is. I don't have to have the answers.
I want to know what you found so that I
can sit there and inside my imagination I can sit
there and go, this is how they would have answered it.
Oh yeah, man, give David kudos on this one.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 3: Sometimes the questions are are better than the answers, more
revealing than the answers, but still the process of questioning right,
and how they'll respond to the questioning, you know, even
if they have no no intention of telling the truth,
how they respond to the questioning is really what's revealing.
Speaker 2: And uh.
Speaker 3: And you know this is where TV becomes a kind
of lie detector. And you know, we ultimately will let
the viewers decide what they what they think, you know,
is Adam Williams religious epiphany, you know, genuine or not.
Speaker 2: We'll let you know. We'll let you, guys decide what
what what you think. Our job is to.
Speaker 3: Go in there and and you know, boldly confront them
with with the with the questions. And you know, there's
there's too little of that left on on on on.
Speaker 2: TV and in in in my view.
Speaker 3: And and that's you know, one of the reasons I'm
doing this show is that it really it takes place
to some of my strength and you know, a career
full of interviewing dictators and politicians and you know, all
manner of man. It turned out to be very good
preparation for facing this this community of interview subjects.
Speaker 1: How do you keep your stuff together? And the reason
why I bring that up is because you know the
story of Adam and him confessing that he found Jesus
in prison. Immediately took me to my brother who said
the same exact thing, except I didn't hold back. I
looked at him and said, you mean to tell me
that I've been taking notes every single Sunday, tithing every
Sunday in my community, every single week, every day, and
you find God in prison. But yet I'm out here
busting my tale every day and I have to sit
here in question. And so but man, if you did
something like that, you'd piss him off, wouldn't you.
Speaker 2: Well, you know I have I have. I'm a human being.
I have lots of emotions. I have lots of anger.
Speaker 3: But but you know, but you do learn as a journalist,
you know, a discipline to some people call it compartmentalizing. Right,
So when we go in the room, it's all about
getting you know, it's all about what we what we
need to make the show work, which is we need
to get inside their head and so so very you know,
it takes some dial I don't come in, I don't.
I don't come in swinging, you know, I come in.
The first part of the interview is generally, you know,
a very sort of mild mannered, convious, you know, probing
of the person's background, because in the background there are
almost always poor tends of the crime to come right.
And and so we you know, we start with that
and uh, and then we ratchet up the pressure and
you know, ultimately, once once the killer has you know,
sufficiently talked to me through the TikTok of the crime
and their backstory, ultimately, you know, we we do hit
them with with some some very uncomfortable questions. But but yeah,
it is the it is the process that that that
reveals and and and it is this process that really
is the spine of our show and what makes it.
Speaker 2: Different and basically everything else in the true crime genre.
Speaker 1: Don't you think it's because we as viewers want to
see them sweat, we want to see them wiggle, we
want to see them get so uncomfortable because they made
a lot of families and communities uncomfortable with what they did.
I want to see them sweat right there in front
of you.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's I think that's fair.
Speaker 3: I think you know, you know, our viewers want justice,
and our our job is to is to hold these
people to account and U and you know a lot
of people don't like to ask uncomfortable questions.
Speaker 2: I happen to have something of a talent for it,
as do you.
Speaker 3: But but you know, but this is really an exercise
and journalism and accountability. And as I say, you know,
we're trying to serve up some justice in the court
of public opinion. We don't have the kind of constraints
that the court of law has. We can probe about,
you know, prior crimes in a way that is often
inadmissible in in in court trials. And and you know,
we will go so far beyond the record, essentially conducting
our own background investigation so that we, you know, we
can really put the screws to them when when we
need to.
Speaker 1: How do you keep the inside of your investigative reporting clean?
And what I mean by that is is the fact
that I've always been told my entire life, if you
surround yourself with evil, you then become evil. And I
sit here, and I'm David. I'm sitting here thinking, how
are you talking to all of these killers? And their
evilness is not seeping into your ears, your nose, your eyes.
Speaker 2: Well, it does seep in, does seep in?
Speaker 3: And uh and and trust me and my psyche is
working over time to process the horrible all the horrible
details of this. You know, harder than harder than than
than facing the killers is living with you know, all
of the imprints of the crime scene photos and the
gory details, and you know, and all the the the
information that that you absorbed in the preparation process. You know,
that's the stuff that's hard to that's that's really hard
to live down. I still see in my in my
mind's eye, you know, these images, like you know, the
first interview I did was the honor killing, the so
called honor killing of two teenage girls by their own
father in Texas.
Speaker 2: And and I'll never forget.
Speaker 3: I'll never forget the sound of you know, the teenage
girl's voices she's you know, using her last breath to to.
Speaker 2: Call nine to one one, Or the way.
Speaker 3: That her slight figure slumped down in the taxi cab
after he after he shot them I mean they're they're
you know, my, my, my, my. Psyche works over time
to process this stuff. But but you know, that's the
stuff that that's hard to.
Speaker 2: It's hard to live down.
Speaker 3: You know, all the glory details where the devil does
as well. And and you know, we're our minds are
are are infinitely elastic, and so we're able to, you know,
somehow live with all of this tumult. But but I'm
well aware of the price that that I'm personally paying
to to bring these stories to the to the audience.
I just believe there's a greater good involved in and
that it's worth, you know, taking a metaphorical bullet war.
Speaker 1: But when you have a story that includes Rachel Wade,
I mean the inner father in me would sit there
and say, Rachel teenager, love triangle, it was all there.
You've seen it on Dynasty, You've seen it on General
Hospital when there's a love triangle. We're in trouble and
you got in trouble.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, your heart does go out to
people like the parents of a teenager who does such.
Speaker 2: A terrible thing.
Speaker 3: Fin all accounts, Rachel Wade's parents were lovely people, were
good parents. They tried very very hard in those early
teenage years when she kind of lost her mind. And
I mean I think I think they called her. They
called the police on her thirty times she ran away,
and you know they're sitting in the courtroom. You could
see their hearts are broken. So and as a parent,
you know, look, I mean, you have kids, you have teenagers.
You learn that the teenage brain can can do some
you know, very strange things.
Speaker 2: We've seen it on this show. Uh, And you know, your.
Speaker 3: Heart, your heart does go out to the part of
the you know, of of the community that has changed
forever by these crimes. You know, are the relatives of
the of the the killers that have to now live
with it.
Speaker 2: They have to live with it. Also, you know, this.
Speaker 1: Is like a new age of horror, only because I
do feel it. It's like when Tom Schneider he interviewed
you know, Charles Manson, I to this day feel the
horror in my heart and and and so when I
see this kind of stuff and you're talking with with
someone you know, like like the code killer Benjamin, it's
freaking me out, but I can't tune out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's grim stuff. It's dark stuff,
but it's interesting stuff. And I think you know, people
are naturally fast by these crimes. This is the ultimate
betrayal of humanity. How could anyone do it? They are
unthinkable crimes. It's impossible to imagine yourself, you know, doing
doing virtually you know any of them. But but you know,
we we have a need to understand it. I mean,
think of it in the in the scripted, in the
fictional context. You know, everyone's fascinated by murder. Like most sitcoms,
most comedies, most you know, novels seem to to turn
on on on crimes like these, and and and everybody
is engaging with with with that subject matter in the
in the in the scripted, fictional context. But the true
crime audience, you know, they they go, they go further.
They want to they want it to be real. They're
not afraid to face the you know, the the dark
reaches of the human mind. In fact, you know, they're
compelled to understand it. And and you know, those are
the people that.
Speaker 2: Were that were really programming for.
Speaker 3: You know, but you don't have to be a hardcore
food crime fan to to I think you know, appreciate
and and enjoy the show's it's full of insights about
the human condition, and and those insights I think are
our universal.
Speaker 1: Well, you are definitely not an armchair quarterback, dude. I
mean you definitely get into this game and you put
that ball down there in the one yard line and score.
I mean you really have with this brand new season.
Speaker 2: My god, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Really appreciate the encouragement. And you know, long as long
as folks slots, we'll keep trying to do it.
Speaker 1: Well, you got to come back to the show anytime
in the future. Twenty minutes with you, David is not enough.
We haven't even scratched the surface yet. But we're going
to get I.
Speaker 2: Know, all right, sounds sounds good, sounds good.
Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you so much, really appreciate it.