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<v Speaker 1>You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more

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<v Speaker 1>amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifagpodcastnetwork dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three eighty one.

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<v Speaker 2>The scariest moment is always just before you start. Steven

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<v Speaker 2>King broadcasting from a dark, windowless.

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<v Speaker 1>Room in Hollywood when we really should be working on

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<v Speaker 1>that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you

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<v Speaker 1>the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how

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<v Speaker 1>to make your screenplay bulletproof.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another

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<v Speaker 2>episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host,

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<v Speaker 2>Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses

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<v Speaker 2>on the kind of project you are and the goals

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<v Speaker 2>of the project you are, so we actually break it

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<v Speaker 2>down by three categories, micro budget, indie film, market, and

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<v Speaker 2>studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a

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<v Speaker 2>reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 2>and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof script coverage,

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<v Speaker 2>our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, w MEE, NBC, HBO, Disney,

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered

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<v Speaker 2>by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. Well, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>today on the show, we have returning champion Shane Stanley. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>many of you know Shane as an instructor over at

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<v Speaker 2>IFH Academy where he has some best selling webinars and

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<v Speaker 2>courses about casting stars and working under COVID protocols and

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<v Speaker 2>many other things. But today we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>his new project called Double Threat, and Shane and I

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<v Speaker 2>discuss how he was able to pull off a micro

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<v Speaker 2>budget action film with some bankable names in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of COVID and how is he able to take that

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<v Speaker 2>micro budget film and have worldwide distribution. It is a

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<v Speaker 2>fascinating episode, guy, So without any further ado, please enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>my conversation with Shane Stanley. I like to welcome back

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<v Speaker 2>to the show returning champion Shane Stanley.

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<v Speaker 3>How you doing, Shae, I am doing great, Alex, thanks

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<v Speaker 3>for having me mad It's great to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for coming back on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Brother.

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you coming back. And you and I have

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<v Speaker 2>been working together for a little while. We've got a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of courses up on IFH Academy. We got your

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<v Speaker 2>book about what they don't teach you at film School

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<v Speaker 2>up on IFH Books, and maybe in the next few

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<v Speaker 2>weeks we're going to be releasing a few chapters of

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<v Speaker 2>that book for free, so everyone can get to get

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<v Speaker 2>a taste of your genius. But in what's inside that

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<v Speaker 2>book that will hopefully save a lot of filmmakers' lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Today we're here to sit right here now one right there?

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<v Speaker 2>What what el Mardo don't exactly so, but so today

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<v Speaker 2>we're here to talk about your new film, Double Threat.

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<v Speaker 2>But I just want to get into weeds a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit about filmmaking and about where where how you can

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<v Speaker 2>put this thing together, the realities of what's going on

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<v Speaker 2>from financing to distribution and so on. So but first, man,

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<v Speaker 2>can you tell a little bit about yourself. The people

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<v Speaker 2>who did not listen to your first interview with me.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, absolutely, you know I grew up in the industry,

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<v Speaker 3>I actually became a working actor at nine months old.

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<v Speaker 3>My father was a working actor. We were at a

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<v Speaker 3>barbecue and there was a guy kind of looking at

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<v Speaker 3>me from across the backyard, and my dad's very protective,

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<v Speaker 3>so you just walked right up to the guy goes,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't like the way you're looking at my kid.

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<v Speaker 3>What's your jam? And he said, oh, no, no, I'm a

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<v Speaker 3>commercial director. I'm doing a new campaign for Century twenty one.

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<v Speaker 3>It's this real estate company and I need a baby,

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<v Speaker 3>and your kid's been sitting there quiet and kirked up

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<v Speaker 3>and well behaved, and we can't find a kid. It

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't scream. So Luxury Shari became this working kid baby

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<v Speaker 3>actor till I was, you know, in fourth, fifth, sixth grade.

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<v Speaker 3>But during that time, my father got out of acting

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<v Speaker 3>and became a working documentary and educational filmmaker. So he

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<v Speaker 3>had the flatbeds, the movieolas, the splicers, and sixteen millimeters cameras,

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<v Speaker 3>and so through very young age, I started playing around

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<v Speaker 3>on those cameras and splicers and movieolas, and he just

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<v Speaker 3>started working and working and working, and he was doing

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<v Speaker 3>everything at such a low budget. He was literally calling

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<v Speaker 3>on me to work in the camera department, the editing department.

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<v Speaker 3>So I grew up in and around the business that way,

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<v Speaker 3>and as I got older, around the time I was

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<v Speaker 3>in high school, he finally got his big break and

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<v Speaker 3>it was on a film that you know he did

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<v Speaker 3>with Michael Landon that I was very very much a

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<v Speaker 3>part of, and that changed our lives. And we started

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<v Speaker 3>making these, you know, a television series of Movie of

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<v Speaker 3>the Weeks for about nine years, which spawned into Retire Gang,

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<v Speaker 3>which was the remake of one of our mow documentaries.

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<v Speaker 3>And I started going down the path of working in

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<v Speaker 3>a television network and studio system, and I just I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't like development. I didn't like meetings. I didn't like

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<v Speaker 3>talking about movies getting made. I wanted to make movies.

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<v Speaker 3>And when I probably about twelve thirteen years ago, after

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<v Speaker 3>my fifteen hundred meeting at one of the networks, the

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<v Speaker 3>head of the network called me into his office and said,

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<v Speaker 3>let's talk, and we put our feet up on his

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<v Speaker 3>coffee table. He poured us a glass of scotch, and

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<v Speaker 3>he said, it's obvious you're unhappy with this process. You're

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<v Speaker 3>a filmmaker. Get out of here, go make movies and

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<v Speaker 3>so I got five hundred dollars together and made a

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<v Speaker 3>pilot for you know, a forty five minute pilot which

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<v Speaker 3>did more for my career as a filmmaker than any

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<v Speaker 3>of my resume previously. And I've been on that path

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<v Speaker 3>ever since, and it's been it's been quite a right.

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<v Speaker 2>It has been served without question. You have made a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of independent films over the years, and I know

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<v Speaker 2>that you know a couple of things that you should

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<v Speaker 2>avoid in regards to making independent film, Like, what are

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<v Speaker 2>a few things that make your independent film look cheap?

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<v Speaker 2>Look low budget? Could you make high quality, high looking

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<v Speaker 2>budget films at low budgets? But I've seen them too, man,

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<v Speaker 2>I even worked on a few of them when I

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<v Speaker 2>was coming up as a colorist and an editor. Where

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<v Speaker 2>you look at the stuff, You're like, dude, why did

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<v Speaker 2>you just god, why did you shoot against the white wall?

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<v Speaker 3>Why did you get your aunt to play a big

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<v Speaker 3>role in your movie?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Me, you know, look, let's put story aside. Every busher

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<v Speaker 3>out and says, oh my god, it's all about the script. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>the story is important, but let's talk about the look

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<v Speaker 3>and production value of films. For me, there's five elements

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<v Speaker 3>and no specific order your cinematograph. He's got to know

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<v Speaker 3>his craft. You have to get actors that are that.

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<v Speaker 3>I hate to keep using the term of know their craft.

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<v Speaker 3>And and a lot of new filmmcacing well, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know any working actors. That's okay, go to local acting classes,

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<v Speaker 3>call colleges. There are a lot of actors amongst us

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<v Speaker 3>that we don't think about. But most of the time

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<v Speaker 3>they're calling their friends, their girlfriends, their aunt, their mom,

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<v Speaker 3>their dad, their neighbor to star in their movies. And

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<v Speaker 3>it just sinks the ship. And there's no reason you

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<v Speaker 3>can't be working with talent. I think that another thing

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<v Speaker 3>is so important is location. So many people just shoot

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<v Speaker 3>in their backyard, their garage, their house. People want to

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<v Speaker 3>experience new things, and for me, everything is about location

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<v Speaker 3>and making something look big. Another element is the editing.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's absolutely key. An editor can can sink

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<v Speaker 3>or swim a film and a heartbeat. And the other

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<v Speaker 3>one is sound production sound. I've been fortunate on my

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<v Speaker 3>last nine films to work with a guy I haven't

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<v Speaker 3>add to d R one line, with the exception of

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<v Speaker 3>we did a scene in a car and we had

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<v Speaker 3>to we knew we weren't going to get it because

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<v Speaker 3>of where we were driving in the organic nature. I

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<v Speaker 3>wanted this shot in and we shot it with the

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<v Speaker 3>camera trays, and the soundman said, just go get this

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<v Speaker 3>as scratch. We'll we'll get them in the trailer doing

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<v Speaker 3>it later. And that's you have to have a great

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<v Speaker 3>sound man, a good editor, good cinematographer, good actors, and

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<v Speaker 3>good locations. I think if you have those five things,

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<v Speaker 3>you have already stepped your game so far up that

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<v Speaker 3>you're going to separate yourself, you know. I always it

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<v Speaker 3>separates the sheet from the goats.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And I think the other other thing I would

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<v Speaker 2>add to that is to just when you frame things,

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<v Speaker 2>just frame it with a little bit of scope, a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of a depth in a shot. So like

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<v Speaker 2>so many times I see shots where, oh guy, look,

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<v Speaker 2>they shot two people talking against a white wall. There's

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<v Speaker 2>nothing interesting in that, and at all shoot at all window,

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<v Speaker 2>at least.

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<v Speaker 3>Spout it out the window, go outside, you know, go

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<v Speaker 3>go to a uh, you know, a set of tract

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<v Speaker 3>houses on a day they're not doing the trash, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, put a long lessons on that thing,

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<v Speaker 3>and just get some depth and some open you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and just that's just it is. Most of the student

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<v Speaker 3>films were indie films that I look at and I

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<v Speaker 3>know you and I have talked about this. They shoot

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<v Speaker 3>it up against the white wall, or they shoot it

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<v Speaker 3>in a garage or a bedroom, and these things could

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<v Speaker 3>just be taken outside or put into some new area.

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<v Speaker 3>And our job as storytellers is to take an audience

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<v Speaker 3>to either a place they've never been, a place they

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<v Speaker 3>are afraid to go, a place that they want to go,

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<v Speaker 3>or something they didn't exist. And I think every time

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<v Speaker 3>we set something up, you need to think that way.

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<v Speaker 2>See, yeah, no question. And i'd love because in your

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<v Speaker 2>new movie Double Threat, there's a scene that you know

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<v Speaker 2>you're talking about. People want to be taken to a

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<v Speaker 2>new place, things you haven't seen before. We'll be right

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<v Speaker 2>back after a word from our sponsor, and now back

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<v Speaker 2>to the show. I haven't seen a woman on horseback

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<v Speaker 2>with a bow and arrow chasing down a car ever

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<v Speaker 2>that I.

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<v Speaker 3>Can remember without a spunk, Double exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Then looked like a stud up. So we'll get into

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<v Speaker 2>how you shot that in a little bit. But that

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<v Speaker 2>was just like something You're just like, hey, something I

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<v Speaker 2>don't see every day. That's that's interesting. So adding little

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<v Speaker 2>elements like that of something you're just like, I've never

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<v Speaker 2>seen that before adds a tremendous amount of value to

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<v Speaker 2>your project.

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<v Speaker 3>It's gotten a lot of mileage. And also, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Danielle c Ryan is the actor you're referring to. Danielle

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<v Speaker 3>had one mandate and and she produced the film with

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<v Speaker 3>me as no stunt doubles. I can do anything that

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<v Speaker 3>you need me to do. And you know there's a

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<v Speaker 3>three and a half minute fight scene in that film

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<v Speaker 3>that one double. She rehearsed it with doctor Haim and

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<v Speaker 3>the other guys for one day on her day off.

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<v Speaker 3>They showed up, we knocked it out, and you know

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<v Speaker 3>that was the thing. You know, we shot that in

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<v Speaker 3>the heart of the pandemic. We filled it November December

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<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty, and we lost nine locations. Going back

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<v Speaker 3>to locations, we had nine locations committed to the film.

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<v Speaker 3>That one after another dropped out during production. And we

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<v Speaker 3>had a friend with a film ranch who just said, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>here are the keys, lock yourselves up on the hill

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<v Speaker 3>and go do what you gotta do. And so we

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<v Speaker 3>were very limited. I had that I had a warehouse,

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<v Speaker 3>I had a hot dog stand, and we had my

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<v Speaker 3>cousin's cabin and Big Bear. Those were the only locations

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<v Speaker 3>we had. And I would have loved to have shot

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<v Speaker 3>that film all over the world, but we couldn't because

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<v Speaker 3>of COVID. So taking what we were talking about a

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<v Speaker 3>second ago is, yeah, is how do we make this interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's put a girl on horseback shooting a bow and

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<v Speaker 3>arrow hitting a moving target, which he actually did. Let's

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<v Speaker 3>get car chases, let's have fun with this, Let's do

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<v Speaker 3>a Let's go to the airport and steal a plane

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<v Speaker 3>and have Matthew Lawrence started up and take off. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>we had no stunt doubles in this film, and that

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<v Speaker 3>was kind of our That's awesome.

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<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. Now, in another interview, I heard you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the eleven minute rule that filmmakers and screenwriters should follow.

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<v Speaker 2>What is the eleven minute rule?

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<v Speaker 3>I will I will tell you something funny. I got

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of heats to that. I was doing an

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<v Speaker 3>interview and before we started, you know, I just said, casually,

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<v Speaker 3>I said, I think there's an eleven minute rule. And

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<v Speaker 3>I learned this from sales agents that you know, when

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<v Speaker 3>you make as storytellers and must we're Spielberg or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Christopher Nolan, whethery're gonna sit for two hours before you

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<v Speaker 3>get to the point. I've learned when you're making an

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<v Speaker 3>indie film, especially in the climate of streaming and three

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<v Speaker 3>hundred thousand channels at your fingertips, you better let your

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<v Speaker 3>audience know what's going on with Then. I've heard from

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<v Speaker 3>sales agents and distributors. They've been beating it in my

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<v Speaker 3>head for the last six or seven years. You've got

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<v Speaker 3>eleven minutes to get to the point where there were

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<v Speaker 3>out there they're gonna You're gonna lose them. And I

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned this on another interview, and I got crucified for

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<v Speaker 3>saying that, And of course it was all the people

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<v Speaker 3>that have never made a movie before, who have never

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<v Speaker 3>sold the film. And I learned it by having movies

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<v Speaker 3>that were building and developing characters, with sales agent saying

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<v Speaker 3>you've got to take three or four minutes out of

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<v Speaker 3>your movie. You've got to get to it by ten

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<v Speaker 3>eleven minutes. Dude, if you don't, we're not going to

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<v Speaker 3>get a sale. So you know, everybody likes to develop

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<v Speaker 3>backstory character, and you know, all the you know all

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<v Speaker 3>the officionados out there that have their rules that they

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<v Speaker 3>believe they need to follow, and they crucified me, which

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<v Speaker 3>is bind. Everybody's entitled to an opinion. But what was

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<v Speaker 3>really funny is I am actually a work for hire

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<v Speaker 3>as a director on a studio film right now that

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<v Speaker 3>starts in August. I was hired by a studio to

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<v Speaker 3>direct a film. And what was so funny is we

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<v Speaker 3>have our first meeting and they wanted me to read

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<v Speaker 3>the script and they never saw the interview. They don't

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<v Speaker 3>care about any of the stuff if I do outside

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<v Speaker 3>of what they need me for. And one of the

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<v Speaker 3>executives actually said to me, there is an eleven minute

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<v Speaker 3>rule that we need to follow. This stript doesn't do it.

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<v Speaker 3>It gets into about thirteen or fourteen minutes where we

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<v Speaker 3>finally know what the hell's going on. We need you

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<v Speaker 3>to as a director to do a director polish and

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<v Speaker 3>get us to this eleven minute point. And I said

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<v Speaker 3>to him, and where did you hear about this rule?

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<v Speaker 3>And they said, it's just a rule. Follow it. But

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<v Speaker 3>I've never heard of the term eleven minute rule a time.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying I coined the phrase like Richard you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like that wonderful comedian that said he coined the lunch

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<v Speaker 3>from help or the something from help. I had never

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<v Speaker 3>heard the term. It was brought up in the interview.

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<v Speaker 3>But I have found, especially in the independent world, when

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<v Speaker 3>you're hustling and you're trying to sell your stuff, if

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<v Speaker 3>your audience doesn't know what the hell's going on and

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<v Speaker 3>what the journey is going to be. Of course, surprises

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<v Speaker 3>down on the road are good, but they don't know

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<v Speaker 3>what the whole setup is and who the players are.

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<v Speaker 3>By ten eleven minutes, man, good luck, good luck.

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<v Speaker 4>No.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's the thing. And this is the difference with

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of filmmakers don't understand that in the eighties, nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>even the early two thousands, people would go to a theater,

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<v Speaker 2>they sit down, or in the eighties and nineties, they

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<v Speaker 2>would rent a movie, they've paid for it, they're gonna

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00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:57.279
<v Speaker 2>watch it hooked, you're hooked. But in today's world, you're

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<v Speaker 2>flipping and flip and flip and flipping, flipping, and there

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<v Speaker 2>is tens of millions of pieces of content for you

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<v Speaker 2>to consume, and movies and television and entertainment for you

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<v Speaker 2>to watch. That I'd argue it's like much faster than

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<v Speaker 2>eleven minutes, because it is for me. I'll sit there

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll start watching something and man, like, we were

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<v Speaker 2>watching the show. What was it? I forgot the name

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<v Speaker 2>of the show, but it was supposedly a really good show.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, it's like a new HBO show. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going to name the show. But we're watching this new

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<v Speaker 2>HBO show and it was like a drama and we're

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<v Speaker 2>just sitting there going, I'm like, what this is so slow?

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<v Speaker 2>My wife and I just like eight minutes in, We're like,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't great cast, scene, cast, great writers. I just

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<v Speaker 2>it just took too long for me to get into it.

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<v Speaker 2>I was just like, if this is the pace of

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<v Speaker 2>the show, then I'm not going to be able to

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<v Speaker 2>keep going with it. So I just started watching Mayor

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<v Speaker 2>of Kingston.

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<v Speaker 3>How do you like You?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm in the middle of.

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<v Speaker 4>It right now.

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<v Speaker 3>Some of the I saw the whole I saw it.

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<v Speaker 3>Talk about Jeremy Renner's show.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Taylor Taylor Sheridan show. Taylor's absolutely loved it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's got you know, look, you could pick apart any series,

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<v Speaker 3>wouldn't we all love to be done. Sure, Taylor's got

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<v Speaker 3>it going on right now. I'll tell you something that

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<v Speaker 3>the last two episodes, it's a two part episode. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a cutter at heart. I'm an editor at Hart.

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<v Speaker 3>Is the best cutting. There's a scene in the prison yard.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not going to ruin it for you. It's the

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<v Speaker 3>best editing I've ever seen on television. And it's terrible.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought I always thought Braveheart's battle scenes were the

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<v Speaker 3>best cut I had every It's comparable to the Brave

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<v Speaker 3>Heart stuff. I was just I rewatched the episodes just

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<v Speaker 3>for the cutting it was. I love the show and

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<v Speaker 3>I hope.

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<v Speaker 2>So so yeah. I think they're definitely bringing it back.

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<v Speaker 2>But Mayor of Kingston is for everybody not listening is

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<v Speaker 2>a show by Taylor Sheridan, who is right now the

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<v Speaker 2>most the busiest human being in Hollywood, has I think.

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<v Speaker 3>Eleven shows in the pipeline, every Yellowstone, He's got.

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<v Speaker 2>Nineteen thirty two, and then there's like four or five

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00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.559
<v Speaker 2>other ones that I just the one with Celester Stallan's

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00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:00.840
<v Speaker 2>coming out like everybody in the in the country, in

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00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:02.679
<v Speaker 2>the world wants to work with him. So he's got

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<v Speaker 2>like I think, literally, I'm not exaggerated about e loved

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<v Speaker 2>shows running.

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<v Speaker 3>What's really cool, if I can interject, is donal Odlivieri,

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<v Speaker 3>who co starts and co stars in Double Threat that failed.

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<v Speaker 3>What we're talking about. She was in eighteen eighty three

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<v Speaker 3>and they loved her so much. She is going to

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<v Speaker 3>be in Yellowstone this year. She's I mean the whole season.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, how cool is that. I'm so proud of her. Well,

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00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:28.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm allowed to say that because that news broke two

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<v Speaker 3>days ago.

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<v Speaker 2>All the w that's awesome music. But the reason why

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<v Speaker 2>I bring that show up is because the first pilot.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting there watching the pilot of that, the first episode,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just going, it's so tight, Yep, it's so in.

355
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<v Speaker 2>I'm so I'm so in. And then there's a twist

356
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<v Speaker 2>in this in the pilot which we won't tell you about,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're just like, what that done? You're hooked for

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00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.319
<v Speaker 2>the series because of what they did in the pot

359
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<v Speaker 2>one of the best pilots I've seen in a while in.

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<v Speaker 3>A while, and Taylor is so good at those fights.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you, going back to what you said a

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<v Speaker 3>second ago, that is so key. When we were making

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<v Speaker 3>movies up until probably ten years ago, you got them

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<v Speaker 3>in the theater. They were hooked. They weren't going anywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>They paid for the DVD or the VHS, they weren't

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<v Speaker 3>going anywhere. Now the problem is is the distractions the phone.

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<v Speaker 3>So even if they're streaming your show, this is going off.

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<v Speaker 3>They've got a tablet, they got a kid crying. There's

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00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.640
<v Speaker 3>so you have to make your show look like they

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<v Speaker 3>can't blink. And that was the point of the whole

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<v Speaker 3>eleven minute rule is. And I'd learned it the hard

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<v Speaker 3>way because when we did Break Even Look love it

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<v Speaker 3>or hate it, that film had more potholes in it

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<v Speaker 3>than a poorly paved road. But the problem was we

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<v Speaker 3>took twenty minutes out, which left those holes so we

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<v Speaker 3>could make our deals. That was the problem, and that

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00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.079
<v Speaker 3>eleven minute rule. That was what everybody said, is it

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<v Speaker 3>takes you twenty one minutes to get to the damn point.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't know what the kids are doing until seventeen

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<v Speaker 3>minutes in. Once we hit that eleven minute point, everything changed.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought the movie suffered greatly for it in plots

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<v Speaker 3>and story, and that's unfortunate, but it made the deals

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00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.839
<v Speaker 3>when you talk about business, and and that was where

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00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:10.759
<v Speaker 3>that was coming from you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know what, and and and then we'll get off the

386
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<v Speaker 2>tailor train for a second because it's just like just

387
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<v Speaker 2>such a fan of Tailor's. Oh he's so he so

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00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:21.440
<v Speaker 2>must see TV for my wife and I that when

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<v Speaker 2>a new season of Yellowstone is up, my kids, no

390
00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.599
<v Speaker 2>are you guys, it's Yellowstone night. Okay, we won't we

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<v Speaker 2>won't knock on the door because if they knock on

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<v Speaker 2>the door while Yellowstone's on, they know they're gonna get it.

393
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<v Speaker 2>So anytime they walk it but like, so yellow and

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00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:40.119
<v Speaker 2>now we're like, it's Mayor of Kingstoon. No, no, no, no,

395
00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:43.519
<v Speaker 2>not don't want to hear anything for an hour. Go away,

396
00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:44.880
<v Speaker 2>go away?

397
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<v Speaker 3>Ye have the houses on fire? I don't care.

398
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<v Speaker 2>There's a fire extinguisher under the under the saying just

399
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:55.279
<v Speaker 2>deal with it. We'll be right back after a word

400
00:19:55.319 --> 00:20:03.680
<v Speaker 2>from our sponsor. And now back to the show. But

401
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.559
<v Speaker 2>that's Taylor. That's the kind of writing that that Taylor does,

402
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:08.839
<v Speaker 2>the kind of filmmaking he does with his shows, and

403
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.319
<v Speaker 2>that is he is. He is a writer and a

404
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:16.119
<v Speaker 2>creator for this moment in time, and probably the best

405
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:20.079
<v Speaker 2>he is probably arguably one of the best writers in

406
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<v Speaker 2>television right now arguably also I mean Zacario, Jesus Christ. Oh,

407
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean Jimmy, I mean all his movies where I

408
00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:28.319
<v Speaker 2>mean Hella high Water.

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<v Speaker 3>You're just like, oh, you know.

410
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<v Speaker 2>And I was watching an interview about him the other day,

411
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<v Speaker 2>I think it was a CBS or something like that,

412
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:37.039
<v Speaker 2>and then where he's like, yeah, after twenty years of

413
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, being number eleven on the call sheet, someone

414
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<v Speaker 2>said you should write. And the first thing he wrote

415
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.720
<v Speaker 2>was the pilot of Mayor of Kingstyle. And then after

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<v Speaker 2>he wrote it, he goes, damn, man, I wish I

417
00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.640
<v Speaker 2>would have been doing this fifteen years ago. He was

418
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.319
<v Speaker 2>just never wrote before that, and he never he just

419
00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:56.960
<v Speaker 2>and then he just kept going and he said, which

420
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:59.599
<v Speaker 2>is the best. He's like, I do movies because to

421
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.119
<v Speaker 2>report my horse habit.

422
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Yep, that's what I think. Why he even dons hit

423
00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:07.480
<v Speaker 3>it off still, Well, it is because you know she

424
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.960
<v Speaker 3>she lives on like this huge ranch and she is

425
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.880
<v Speaker 3>she is all about the horses. And I remember when

426
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:16.599
<v Speaker 3>we were working together on Double Threat, she was like,

427
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:18.920
<v Speaker 3>I really want to do a film with you with horses,

428
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.039
<v Speaker 3>maybe a Western we should do that. It's like okay,

429
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:23.119
<v Speaker 3>And then we wrapped Double dreatch. She got eighteen eighty

430
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.240
<v Speaker 3>three and she goes, ah, I found my Phil Baker,

431
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.240
<v Speaker 3>who's got the horses. Shane thinks.

432
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, Shane, I'm gonna compete with this.

433
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:35.000
<v Speaker 3>I can't complete like Whatie Harrelson an uh in decent proposal.

434
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:36.960
<v Speaker 3>It's like he's got the big yacht. That is, I

435
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:37.519
<v Speaker 3>can't compete.

436
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't convey with the just us gout make it.

437
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.039
<v Speaker 3>Offering me some old vintage guitars. That's it.

438
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:46.720
<v Speaker 2>And you know that he's doing so Taylor's doing so

439
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:48.400
<v Speaker 2>well that he bought he's a co owner now of

440
00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the four sixes ranch.

441
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:51.559
<v Speaker 3>I didn't know that.

442
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, he bought. He bought for everyone know the

443
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:58.720
<v Speaker 2>four Six's ranch is the largest ranch in America. I

444
00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:03.799
<v Speaker 2>think it's it's two hundred and seventy five miles. Yeah,

445
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:08.920
<v Speaker 2>it's it's seventy five square miles or some something insane.

446
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:11.880
<v Speaker 2>It's he he owns, and he owns he's a part

447
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.279
<v Speaker 2>owner of it. Now that'll be I think two hundred

448
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:17.839
<v Speaker 2>million or something like that is something crazy.

449
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.240
<v Speaker 3>Must be nice publish. I'm just trying to put gas

450
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:20.680
<v Speaker 3>in the car.

451
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Hence why I move Why I moved to Austin, Sir.

452
00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:28.359
<v Speaker 3>War Man, smart man.

453
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Now, another thing I wanted to ask you about Man,

454
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:35.599
<v Speaker 2>is titles, the title of your movie, and how important

455
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:37.519
<v Speaker 2>the title of your movie is. And a lot of

456
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.079
<v Speaker 2>filmmakers think about it as a creative choice, and it is.

457
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:44.400
<v Speaker 2>But a movie like one of the greatest movies ever made,

458
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.319
<v Speaker 2>worst title ever for a film? What movie is it?

459
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Greatest movie you ever remember? One of the greatest movie

460
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.559
<v Speaker 2>ever made in the nineties, worst title in the history

461
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:55.200
<v Speaker 2>of cinema.

462
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.319
<v Speaker 3>Well, I know, I know. It was a well for me.

463
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.799
<v Speaker 3>It was the best selling book with Shashank Redemption.

464
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.079
<v Speaker 2>It's a horrible, horrible thing.

465
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.599
<v Speaker 3>I think will tell you a funny story about that movie,

466
00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Speaker 3>not leting people know, but.

467
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:07.519
<v Speaker 4>Go for it.

468
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.039
<v Speaker 2>I's such a good story.

469
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:12.039
<v Speaker 3>When we first started doing redire Gang, we got that

470
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:15.519
<v Speaker 3>film got acquired by Sony in ninety two ninety three,

471
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:17.880
<v Speaker 3>so we spent a lot of years at the studio

472
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:20.920
<v Speaker 3>and without naming names. Uh, you know, when you're in

473
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:23.720
<v Speaker 3>the studio system, they'll they'll invite you to screenings, premieres

474
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:26.359
<v Speaker 3>and little private showings. And I'll never forget being invited

475
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.920
<v Speaker 3>to a private showing of a film that the head

476
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.480
<v Speaker 3>of production at Sony Calton said we want you guys,

477
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:33.559
<v Speaker 3>you and your dad and mom to come to see

478
00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:36.799
<v Speaker 3>this film. So we went and it was it was

479
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.359
<v Speaker 3>Shawshank Redemption, and it was brilliant. It was like I

480
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.599
<v Speaker 3>did the lights came up. I turned to the gentleman

481
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.680
<v Speaker 3>who invited us and I say, is one of the

482
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.960
<v Speaker 3>best films I've ever seen. He said, we're not that

483
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.400
<v Speaker 3>excited about it. We don't know, he said, we're kind

484
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:55.039
<v Speaker 3>of nervous about it. It's a little picture. We may yeah,

485
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.000
<v Speaker 3>And I just I didn't know it was based on

486
00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.960
<v Speaker 3>a Stephen King movie because I actually saw it without credit.

487
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:01.759
<v Speaker 3>That's what really I saw it, and I just said

488
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 3>to him, I said, my only suggestion is changed the title.

489
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:06.200
<v Speaker 3>And everybody looked at me like I just took a

490
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.759
<v Speaker 3>turn on this in the corner of the ring and

491
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.720
<v Speaker 3>they were like, you realize that's a Stephen King novel

492
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.440
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, oh, I just don't think.

493
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.920
<v Speaker 2>It's not a novel. It was a short It was

494
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:22.839
<v Speaker 2>a novela it's a short story inside it's a novella.

495
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:25.720
<v Speaker 2>So it wasn't like it you could change the damn

496
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:27.680
<v Speaker 2>title And it wasn't actually the name of the title

497
00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:28.000
<v Speaker 2>of them.

498
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:30.720
<v Speaker 3>They first saw the title, and now I think everybody's

499
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:32.079
<v Speaker 3>it's ingrained in our head.

500
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:37.440
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but now it's in shosh It was horrible, horrible.

501
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.960
<v Speaker 2>So can you talk about the importance of titles in

502
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the marketing and selling of your film? I can.

503
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:47.359
<v Speaker 3>I the first time I ever got introduced to the

504
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.480
<v Speaker 3>importance of the title. I was fortunate enough when I was.

505
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.640
<v Speaker 3>I was running Charlie Sheen's production company from ninety I

506
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.400
<v Speaker 3>think it was ninety six to ninety nine, and we

507
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.359
<v Speaker 3>were doing a lot of projects back then, and we

508
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.200
<v Speaker 3>got involved with Abbie Lerner, who's you know, Abby's become

509
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:05.960
<v Speaker 3>one of the most prolific independent filmmakers of you know,

510
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:09.519
<v Speaker 3>content in the world. And we were doing a film

511
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.039
<v Speaker 3>and the title was The Pharaoh Prophecies. It was kind

512
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:17.359
<v Speaker 3>of this really cool psychological thriller, and they greenlit the

513
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.559
<v Speaker 3>film and it changed. But Abby said to me in

514
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.519
<v Speaker 3>a meeting, I'll never forget it. We didn't have He

515
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:25.160
<v Speaker 3>called and said we need to have a meeting. We

516
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 3>didn't have Skype, we didn't email. We drove to Abby's office.

517
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.039
<v Speaker 3>He said, we're having a round table meeting about Tiden

518
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.079
<v Speaker 3>and he said the title stops. I don't understand it.

519
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.079
<v Speaker 3>But most importantly, it does not translate foreign. He said,

520
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.640
<v Speaker 3>on a good day, eighteen percent of our money will

521
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.160
<v Speaker 3>come from domestic. It's all about foreign. And I never

522
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:46.000
<v Speaker 3>forgot that. So I was literally in the bathroom. I

523
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.640
<v Speaker 3>grabbed an old I was getting ready to go to

524
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:51.200
<v Speaker 3>the meeting, and I was looking at an old issue

525
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.839
<v Speaker 3>of Metal Edge magazine and the drummer for Poison. They're

526
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.359
<v Speaker 3>friends of mine. Yes, Ricky Rockett was wearing a shirt

527
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.680
<v Speaker 3>that said no Code of Conduct. So I went to

528
00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:00.920
<v Speaker 3>the meeting about two hours later, sitting there at obvious

529
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.279
<v Speaker 3>streaming about how horrible the title is, and I finally said,

530
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.000
<v Speaker 3>what about no code of conduct? And everybody stopped. He

531
00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.920
<v Speaker 3>wrote it down. He made a phone call. He said,

532
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.279
<v Speaker 3>that is brilliant. He said, you're good at titles. You're

533
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:15.279
<v Speaker 3>a crappy writer, but you're good at titles. So I

534
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.440
<v Speaker 3>said to him later as we became friendly, he said,

535
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, and this was in our video days, but

536
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.960
<v Speaker 3>I tell people this now. He said, when people go

537
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 3>to Blockbuster or Hollywood Video, they start at new releases.

538
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:28.119
<v Speaker 3>They're at alphabetical order. You have to think about by

539
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.680
<v Speaker 3>the time they get to m they've made their selection,

540
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:34.640
<v Speaker 3>he said, So always try to think of titles before

541
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:39.279
<v Speaker 3>m but good two word titles that have translation globally.

542
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:42.559
<v Speaker 3>So for me, I realized in making movies, especially in

543
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:44.839
<v Speaker 3>the last few years. You know, we have we have

544
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:47.319
<v Speaker 3>titles like break even, we have titles like night Trade,

545
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:51.519
<v Speaker 3>we have titles like double threat, you know, things like that.

546
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.400
<v Speaker 3>And for me, it's about let's get a catchy title

547
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.680
<v Speaker 3>that we say on a daily basis or a regular like, well,

548
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.720
<v Speaker 3>we hear it, it's a familiar term. And for me

549
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 3>it's it's it's really important to catch people's eye that

550
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:05.960
<v Speaker 3>know nothing about you as a filmmaker. They may not

551
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:07.759
<v Speaker 3>know your actors or what your film's about, or you

552
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:10.279
<v Speaker 3>don't have the publicity money to make it a household name.

553
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:12.519
<v Speaker 3>How can you do that? And that's all the studio

554
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.599
<v Speaker 3>system was doing and repeat sequels, prequels and remakes was

555
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:20.240
<v Speaker 3>let's get rebrand what people know. So as an indie filmmaker,

556
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.720
<v Speaker 3>I think it's important to come up with really cool

557
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:27.400
<v Speaker 3>titles that people are familiar with subconsciously that will help

558
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.160
<v Speaker 3>just do a little bit of a built in branding

559
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:32.319
<v Speaker 3>for your film. And that's that's where that comes from.

560
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.400
<v Speaker 3>But as a I can't work on a film until

561
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.039
<v Speaker 3>I have a cool title. I just I never could.

562
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.279
<v Speaker 2>It's so I actually when I was working in coming

563
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:44.880
<v Speaker 2>up doing deliveries for a film for films, I was

564
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:46.960
<v Speaker 2>working with the distributor and there was a tidal little

565
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:50.039
<v Speaker 2>movie and let's say it's called by Train. All right,

566
00:27:50.119 --> 00:27:52.559
<v Speaker 2>let's for lack of it's called by Trains for it.

567
00:27:53.079 --> 00:27:55.160
<v Speaker 2>He goes, yeah, it's too they can't he can't make

568
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.160
<v Speaker 2>that work. Yeah, we need to be in the top

569
00:27:58.200 --> 00:27:58.920
<v Speaker 2>of the catalog.

570
00:27:59.440 --> 00:27:59.640
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

571
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.559
<v Speaker 2>So for him, he was looking at it from AFM standpoint,

572
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:05.799
<v Speaker 2>from the American film market standpoint where distributors and buyers

573
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.880
<v Speaker 2>are looking at the catalog, and it starts at A.

574
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 2>So he renamed the movie a night train.

575
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.839
<v Speaker 3>Smart because they're not going to make it night train.

576
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 3>Comma a in the catalogs to the A night train

577
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:18.880
<v Speaker 3>a night train.

578
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.599
<v Speaker 2>So, and I'm using that as a really horrible example,

579
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:24.519
<v Speaker 2>but it's exactly what he did. He just took it

580
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 2>and just made a just threw an a in front

581
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.079
<v Speaker 2>of it, and you're just like, but that doesn't sound

582
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.759
<v Speaker 2>that great, And he's like it's going to sell. So

583
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:35.079
<v Speaker 2>there's and this is the thing man, and I know,

584
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:37.519
<v Speaker 2>I know you and I both kind of fall in

585
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:39.759
<v Speaker 2>the same in the same boat in this in regards

586
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:44.440
<v Speaker 2>to art versus commerce, where filmmakers where creatives. We want

587
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:46.240
<v Speaker 2>to tell a cool story, we want to be doing

588
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:49.119
<v Speaker 2>what we'd love to do. But then you've got to

589
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:51.440
<v Speaker 2>make money in order to keep this train going, no

590
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 2>pun intended. They keep this. You got to keep this

591
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:56.640
<v Speaker 2>thing going. So there are going to be sacrifices at

592
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.480
<v Speaker 2>this level when you're at the studio level where the

593
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:01.680
<v Speaker 2>whole other or if you're in the art world, our

594
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.359
<v Speaker 2>art art film level where you don't care. Like I

595
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:06.680
<v Speaker 2>made a movie called On the Corner of Ego and Desire.

596
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.799
<v Speaker 2>It's not something I was afm was not my strength,

597
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:12.759
<v Speaker 2>not my point. It wasn't like buyers are going to

598
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.839
<v Speaker 2>buy this. I made the movie for three grand and

599
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:18.559
<v Speaker 2>it's fun. It was just for fun and I was

600
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:19.960
<v Speaker 2>going to sell it to my audience and I made

601
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:21.880
<v Speaker 2>money with it all and we're all said and done.

602
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:24.279
<v Speaker 2>But it was an art piece. It was an art piece.

603
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.759
<v Speaker 2>So there's art films and then there is a studio

604
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:32.000
<v Speaker 2>world where rules are completely different. They're completely skeared whatever

605
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:35.519
<v Speaker 2>they want. But in the indie you know, the grinding

606
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:38.400
<v Speaker 2>indie world and the trenches if you will, you've got

607
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to balance art and commerce. And you just said that

608
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:43.920
<v Speaker 2>you could have cut out twenty minutes of your movie

609
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:46.720
<v Speaker 2>or else you wouldn't have gotten deals. Now you could

610
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.759
<v Speaker 2>have stuck to your guns as an artist and said,

611
00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.720
<v Speaker 2>you know what, this is my vision. I'm not moving forward.

612
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:54.839
<v Speaker 2>And that movie wouldn't have made money, you wouldn't have

613
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:56.200
<v Speaker 2>been able to make the next one. Is that a

614
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:56.759
<v Speaker 2>fair statement?

615
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:59.319
<v Speaker 3>And that's and that's just said. I say in my book,

616
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.839
<v Speaker 3>I remind people, you know, I look at every film

617
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:04.000
<v Speaker 3>we make is a gift.

618
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

619
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:13.119
<v Speaker 2>and now back to the show.

620
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.039
<v Speaker 3>Every opportunity we have. I look, I compared to a

621
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:19.759
<v Speaker 3>trip to the moon, and how many people have been

622
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.440
<v Speaker 3>to the moon twice? I don't think many. And I

623
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:25.480
<v Speaker 3>just say, look, if you just want to make a movie,

624
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 3>go make the movie you want to make. But if

625
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.720
<v Speaker 3>you want to have a career as a filmmaker, there

626
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.119
<v Speaker 3>are sacrifices and things that you have to change to

627
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.000
<v Speaker 3>get there. I mean, I've had films that people said

628
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.440
<v Speaker 3>are brilliant. They've won, you know, one hundred awards at

629
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:44.160
<v Speaker 3>really prestigious festivals, premiered it can, and then the buyer

630
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 3>buys it it can, says great, we need to take

631
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:48.680
<v Speaker 3>out five minutes, we need to do this, we need

632
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.559
<v Speaker 3>to switch this. We don't like this actor, we want

633
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 3>you to reshoot that. But that's what got me here.

634
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.359
<v Speaker 3>I am at fifty plus years old now and I'm

635
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.400
<v Speaker 3>making a couple of films a year, and I'm very

636
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.799
<v Speaker 3>pleased to say pretty much my way because I've learned

637
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:04.240
<v Speaker 3>how to play the game and it is commised. You're

638
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.279
<v Speaker 3>going back to what you said about title real quick.

639
00:31:06.519 --> 00:31:09.559
<v Speaker 3>The original title to Night Train was actual blow and smoke,

640
00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:12.279
<v Speaker 3>because it's a film about speed. It's about you know,

641
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.240
<v Speaker 3>car racing and all motorcycles and all this smoke.

642
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Right away I thought of I thought it was a

643
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:18.599
<v Speaker 2>weed movie.

644
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, so at first was a weed, then there

645
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.519
<v Speaker 3>was blowing smoke up your ass. And then I literally said,

646
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:28.279
<v Speaker 3>as a joke, I said, well, the the treatment title

647
00:31:28.359 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 3>was night Train, and everybody's like, well, that's your title,

648
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:33.359
<v Speaker 3>night train. The truck is actually your third star in

649
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.880
<v Speaker 3>the movie. That's the brand. That's plus you got the

650
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:39.200
<v Speaker 3>Guns Roses song that was real familiar, uh popular, So

651
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.839
<v Speaker 3>it's again it goes back to that subtle branding. So yeah,

652
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:43.680
<v Speaker 3>we scrapped Blow and Smoke even though that was the

653
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:46.680
<v Speaker 3>working title, but it was always meant to be Night Training.

654
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. Now I want to ask you how did

655
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:51.640
<v Speaker 2>you get double Thread off the ground? You know? And

656
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:53.839
<v Speaker 2>especially how did you get that? You know? How did

657
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:55.960
<v Speaker 2>you just I mean, obviously you came up with the idea,

658
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.200
<v Speaker 2>you wrote it correct, No, no, no, C J.

659
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:04.119
<v Speaker 3>Waller, It didn't easiest story. So we were in September

660
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.200
<v Speaker 3>of twenty twenty. We had all been on lockdown for

661
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 3>six seven months. I was sitting in my home office

662
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:14.000
<v Speaker 3>and I literally said, Okay, it's September, coming into the

663
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.400
<v Speaker 3>fourth quarter. We can look in a rearview mirror and

664
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:18.759
<v Speaker 3>say twenty twenty kicked our ass and lock this down,

665
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:20.319
<v Speaker 3>or we can we can turn around and make it

666
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.880
<v Speaker 3>our bitch. I said, I am not going down without

667
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.000
<v Speaker 3>a fight. A friend of mine called me. It was

668
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:26.880
<v Speaker 3>one of my dearest friends in the world. He said, hey,

669
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.480
<v Speaker 3>I got fifty grand burning a hole in my pocket.

670
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:33.480
<v Speaker 3>Can you do something with it? And I said sure,

671
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.160
<v Speaker 3>So I called up CJ and I said, I got

672
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:38.400
<v Speaker 3>a Fred who just shimmidted fifty grand. I know it's nothing.

673
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:39.759
<v Speaker 3>I got the cameras for free. I know I can

674
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:42.279
<v Speaker 3>get the locations for free. The actors will just put

675
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.400
<v Speaker 3>it under an experimental be able to get decent actor.

676
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:45.920
<v Speaker 3>Somebody will come out and playlist. We'll get a crew

677
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.400
<v Speaker 3>of eight. Let's just go do it. So we talked

678
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.119
<v Speaker 3>to Danielle and her manager at the time, Kurt, and

679
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:54.319
<v Speaker 3>we all agreed to go make this movie. CJ had

680
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.799
<v Speaker 3>a subscript in six days, and on the sixth day

681
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.960
<v Speaker 3>of Christmas, I Truelove called me and said, yeah, my

682
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:04.720
<v Speaker 3>wife said no, you're not in a fifty grade. So

683
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:09.000
<v Speaker 3>it was like, oh, okay. So I actually was having

684
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.400
<v Speaker 3>lunch the next day with one of my dearest friends

685
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.079
<v Speaker 3>in the world, and it was when they were starting

686
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:17.000
<v Speaker 3>to let people in restaurants if they were outside on streets,

687
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:19.799
<v Speaker 3>and we sat down and he just said, you know,

688
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:22.839
<v Speaker 3>I told you I'd never get involved in your industry.

689
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:26.240
<v Speaker 3>Is a very successful man in his own business. He said,

690
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm concerned about you and your friends. You haven't been

691
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.200
<v Speaker 3>out of the house in seven months. He said, what

692
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:33.920
<v Speaker 3>is the cheapest you can make a movie for, like

693
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.400
<v Speaker 3>Bare Bones with the COVID protocols. I don't want you

694
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.880
<v Speaker 3>to get shut down. So I teamed back to him

695
00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:43.559
<v Speaker 3>later that day and said, I'd broken down what we

696
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:45.759
<v Speaker 3>were going to do. Here's what COVID's going to cost.

697
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:48.200
<v Speaker 3>Let's put a little pat in there, let's do it right,

698
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:50.759
<v Speaker 3>let's do it through SAG, let's do it pay everybody.

699
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.440
<v Speaker 3>Here's the number. And he said, I want you to

700
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 3>get out of the house and go make a movie.

701
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.960
<v Speaker 3>And within two months from concept too, that's a wrap.

702
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, that's an insane turn around for a movie

703
00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:04.440
<v Speaker 2>at endsize.

704
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:07.599
<v Speaker 3>And now the best part of the story is not

705
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.440
<v Speaker 3>I had two assisted editors on the film who sadly

706
00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:16.239
<v Speaker 3>lost parents, grandparents, and brothers and sisters to COVID. Though

707
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:19.800
<v Speaker 3>I had all the four K or five K footage sitting,

708
00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:23.599
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't find anybody because Hollywood had started to open

709
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.480
<v Speaker 3>and we had no money going in. It took me

710
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:31.599
<v Speaker 3>six months to get the pictures trans coded, saw Daily's

711
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Speaker 3>proxies and cut because everybody was back to work and

712
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.599
<v Speaker 3>making good money and we didn't have post money going in.

713
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.719
<v Speaker 3>And I literally had to ship a hard drive, a

714
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.800
<v Speaker 3>twenty four terabyte hard drive to Cairo, Egypt. There was

715
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.920
<v Speaker 3>a gentleman, God love him. He heard we were in need.

716
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:53.440
<v Speaker 3>He reached out and said, I am stuck in Egypt.

717
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:55.880
<v Speaker 3>I flew here before the pandemic with my wife. We

718
00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:59.199
<v Speaker 3>cannot leave. We're on lockdown. If you trust me, I

719
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:03.440
<v Speaker 3>will deliver you need. And I literally FedEx to Cairo

720
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.199
<v Speaker 3>a twenty four terribinted high drive in a month later.

721
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:09.159
<v Speaker 3>He set it back with everything done and we were.

722
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Able to affordably. I'm assuming.

723
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.000
<v Speaker 3>He did it for like lunch, a screen credit, and

724
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:17.639
<v Speaker 3>a new friend, I mean the guy. I couldn't have

725
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.559
<v Speaker 3>done it without him, and he had no post money.

726
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.920
<v Speaker 3>We put it all into the shoot and COVID forty

727
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.840
<v Speaker 3>grand went to COVID on that film. We detested over

728
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.159
<v Speaker 3>four hundred times, not one positive. We had a couple

729
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.239
<v Speaker 3>of COVID officers at all the pp E stuff you needed.

730
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean it was. It was unbelievable. What went to

731
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.159
<v Speaker 3>COVID like a huge choke movie went to COVID.

732
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.199
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's it.

733
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:42.360
<v Speaker 3>So we posted it for nothing. I mean my DP

734
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:45.480
<v Speaker 3>Joel Laogan colored it because he wanted to color a film.

735
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:47.239
<v Speaker 3>He said, I'd like to try coloring a film, and

736
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:50.679
<v Speaker 3>I said, well, I have no money here, and these

737
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:51.119
<v Speaker 3>are the things.

738
00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:53.519
<v Speaker 2>And when you're when you're working at this budget level,

739
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:55.320
<v Speaker 2>you gotta do what you gotta do to make it happen.

740
00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:57.880
<v Speaker 3>Is not just, and it was just. It was it

741
00:35:57.920 --> 00:35:59.599
<v Speaker 3>was a fraction of what we had been used to.

742
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.840
<v Speaker 3>And then you add COVID on top of it, and

743
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:04.760
<v Speaker 3>then the fact that when we weren't posts, everybody was

744
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.000
<v Speaker 3>back to work. I was calling people that were friends

745
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 3>of friends that were looking for work the week before

746
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:12.679
<v Speaker 3>in destitute, living in a box. And as we all know,

747
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.039
<v Speaker 3>Hollywood went crazy. And I would call people in like

748
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:19.360
<v Speaker 3>colorists that would say yeah, I'll do it for like

749
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:21.760
<v Speaker 3>five that they were like, dude, you can't even afford me.

750
00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:23.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm backed up for six months. Don't even bother me.

751
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:25.480
<v Speaker 3>I couldn't get anybody to do it.

752
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly exactly. And I was getting calls left and

753
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.000
<v Speaker 2>right to do color, and I just like, I'm retired.

754
00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:38.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm retired. I'm a podcaster, sir, I don't color. I'm choke.

755
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:41.719
<v Speaker 3>I Actually they had a friend and Chris Rossiter, he's

756
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:43.599
<v Speaker 3>one of my dearest friends. I love Chris. He's an

757
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:49.840
<v Speaker 3>incredible cinematography teacher at LACC. Chris is a very good colorist,

758
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:52.000
<v Speaker 3>and he had been on lockdown, so he had actually

759
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.239
<v Speaker 3>offered when we went into this. He goes, if you

760
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.239
<v Speaker 3>ever forget in a jam, and he had colored let

761
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.719
<v Speaker 3>me know, I'll color it for you for lunch and

762
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.119
<v Speaker 3>you know a couple of favors. And I said great.

763
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 3>But the problem was it took us four and a

764
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:06.079
<v Speaker 3>half months to get it transcoded sinct. So by the

765
00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:08.000
<v Speaker 3>time I got the film back and Frank Reynolds and

766
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.519
<v Speaker 3>I started cutting the film, Chris was already back teaching,

767
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:13.679
<v Speaker 3>working full time again, so I lost that window and

768
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.440
<v Speaker 3>it was like starting and thank god, it's like he said,

769
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:17.480
<v Speaker 3>he'd color it.

770
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:21.159
<v Speaker 2>It's it's pretty, it's it's it's insane thing we do.

771
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know why we do it. Honestly, it's

772
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:24.079
<v Speaker 2>it's insanity.

773
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.840
<v Speaker 3>I quite now.

774
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.559
<v Speaker 2>You've obviously been able to raise money from investors over

775
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:33.320
<v Speaker 2>the years to get your movies and projects off the ground.

776
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.400
<v Speaker 2>What are a few reasons why investors want to invest

777
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.639
<v Speaker 2>in our in our industry, in your project specifically, what

778
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:42.199
<v Speaker 2>are a few things that we can kind of know

779
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.360
<v Speaker 2>on how to you know, angle our pitches or you know,

780
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:47.880
<v Speaker 2>just angle what we're trying to do with them.

781
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:50.280
<v Speaker 3>You know, that's a great question and I have found,

782
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:52.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, I think for filmmakers for many years it

783
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.480
<v Speaker 3>was getting rich people that wanted to rub albums with celebrities.

784
00:37:55.519 --> 00:37:59.360
<v Speaker 3>Those days are over. It's it's about relationships. And people

785
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:02.159
<v Speaker 3>don't like here this, especially the young ones coming up

786
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:06.239
<v Speaker 3>who are of that instant satisfaction get it when you

787
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.239
<v Speaker 3>want it age of picking up the phone and ordering

788
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.519
<v Speaker 3>something from Amazon and having it or being able to

789
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.000
<v Speaker 3>text somebody you can't reach. And I talk about it

790
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:17.159
<v Speaker 3>in my book, Alex. The key thing is relationships. The

791
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:19.880
<v Speaker 3>people that have invested in me over the years, with

792
00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:23.159
<v Speaker 3>the exception of one maybe two times in thirty years,

793
00:38:23.239 --> 00:38:26.079
<v Speaker 3>were people that I had known for decades, most in

794
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.360
<v Speaker 3>which said never never talk to me about investing in film.

795
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.679
<v Speaker 3>I will never do it. It's and everybody wants to hear.

796
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:35.119
<v Speaker 3>It's going to a cocktail party and meeting a rich

797
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.280
<v Speaker 3>guy who wants to rebelbows with, as they say, and

798
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.119
<v Speaker 3>the player, which will be Goldberg and make, you know,

799
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:42.599
<v Speaker 3>write a check. And that's not how it works. It's

800
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:47.039
<v Speaker 3>about building trust. They want to know that they can

801
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:48.920
<v Speaker 3>trust you. You have to treat their money like it's

802
00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:52.880
<v Speaker 3>your own. For me, many times it was working for

803
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.280
<v Speaker 3>these people in side hustle jobs, or they had a

804
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:01.079
<v Speaker 3>need and they needed something handled professionally that they didn't

805
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.400
<v Speaker 3>know who to call on. So they called on me

806
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:06.800
<v Speaker 3>and said I need something done for my business. Nobody's available,

807
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:08.599
<v Speaker 3>So it would turn into me doing a three month

808
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:12.079
<v Speaker 3>job for them that they look back and said, this

809
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:14.719
<v Speaker 3>guy didn't fail me. He did what nobody else could

810
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.679
<v Speaker 3>do and he delivered, and this is how he's conducting

811
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:20.920
<v Speaker 3>them self. It was business I want in and that's

812
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:25.039
<v Speaker 3>what he came for me. And with the exception of

813
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:27.199
<v Speaker 3>running into two or three people in the course of

814
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:28.679
<v Speaker 3>thirty years that said, hey, I want to be in

815
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.400
<v Speaker 3>the business. I like what you do. Here's a check.

816
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:35.400
<v Speaker 3>It's been about deep seated, long lasting friendships that were

817
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:37.719
<v Speaker 3>never built on maybe one day they'll write at check

818
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:39.920
<v Speaker 3>for a movie, and that I think is the hardest

819
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.880
<v Speaker 3>thing to translate to people. You'll always meet people that

820
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:45.320
<v Speaker 3>say I know somebody that may be interested, or I'm

821
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:48.440
<v Speaker 3>a hedge fund manager, I know people, or my favorite

822
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:50.960
<v Speaker 3>is is. You know, I have clients that are deep,

823
00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.199
<v Speaker 3>deep pockets and they're interested in getting in the industry,

824
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.960
<v Speaker 3>and you know, put a proposal together. I think pitch decks,

825
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:58.760
<v Speaker 3>and I talk about this a lot. I think pitch

826
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 3>decks have to be reality checks for a lot of people.

827
00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,

828
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:10.719
<v Speaker 2>and now back to the show.

829
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Pitch decks, especially for filmmakers who haven't done it. They

830
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:21.280
<v Speaker 3>they they put these figures together that are so methodic.

831
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:23.920
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's like great mythology how they put you know,

832
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.960
<v Speaker 3>maybe back in the old date blockbuster in Hollywood video

833
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.599
<v Speaker 3>of these things they have worked, but it's a new

834
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:32.119
<v Speaker 3>day and age. The MG's are tiny if you get

835
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:34.880
<v Speaker 3>them at all. I always remind the filmmakers you've got

836
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:37.320
<v Speaker 3>fifty four territories in over one hundred and seventy countries

837
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:39.679
<v Speaker 3>that potentially could buy your film. Quit making movies for

838
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:42.880
<v Speaker 3>instagrammer and carpet moments, and think globally, not locally when

839
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:46.960
<v Speaker 3>it comes to building. Amen, they stop putting dead affleck

840
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:50.239
<v Speaker 3>and you know, gal Gado and your pitch check, it's

841
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.960
<v Speaker 3>not going to happen. And you know all you're doing

842
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.840
<v Speaker 3>as I talk about is all you're doing is disappointing

843
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.679
<v Speaker 3>your potential investor. Why would you go in with these

844
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:01.599
<v Speaker 3>names to try to lure them? And then before you've

845
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:04.119
<v Speaker 3>even started shooting the movie, Hey you got some b

846
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.280
<v Speaker 3>rate actor that nobody knows. No disrespect to them, but

847
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.559
<v Speaker 3>it sure doesn't add up to Galcado and Ben Affleck.

848
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:11.679
<v Speaker 3>So your investor's going to look at that go well,

849
00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:13.760
<v Speaker 3>why did you present this? And you're ending up with that.

850
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:18.239
<v Speaker 2>And let's not even talk about projections and you know,

851
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.239
<v Speaker 2>busting out Blair Witch Project and paranormal activity.

852
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:24.079
<v Speaker 3>If it's sling Mad and Napole and Diner Behind and

853
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:27.159
<v Speaker 3>El Mariachi, Oh my god. I always tell people, look

854
00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:29.719
<v Speaker 3>at Luve Me and Amazing Once, these little films that

855
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.360
<v Speaker 3>were made for a half a million dollars a feat

856
00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:32.119
<v Speaker 3>back Once.

857
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah Once is a great one. Yeah Once is a

858
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:34.760
<v Speaker 2>great example.

859
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:36.840
<v Speaker 3>And I told me it's like, look if I'd like

860
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.639
<v Speaker 3>to think that US filmmakers are smart enough to be

861
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:42.960
<v Speaker 3>creative beings and should have some business sense, And what

862
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:45.800
<v Speaker 3>frustrates me is I see them. Look if if you're

863
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:49.000
<v Speaker 3>a potential investor and somebody came to you and said, dude,

864
00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:51.480
<v Speaker 3>I need one hundred grand. We can build by this

865
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 3>house and flip it in six months and make it

866
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.360
<v Speaker 3>thirty million bucks. Are you going to get that guy

867
00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:57.360
<v Speaker 3>one hundred grand? Probably not. But if the guy came

868
00:41:57.400 --> 00:41:58.920
<v Speaker 3>to and said I need a undergrand, it's going to

869
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:03.000
<v Speaker 3>take us ten months to to remodel, and probably in

870
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:04.480
<v Speaker 3>the next two to three years we can sell that

871
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:06.320
<v Speaker 3>house for two hundred and fifty to three hundred grand.

872
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Is that something you'd be interested in? You may actually

873
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:11.840
<v Speaker 3>listen to them. And that's what filmmakers forget. And remember

874
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:13.599
<v Speaker 3>when you're going to somebody with a lot of money

875
00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:16.320
<v Speaker 3>or the potential to finance your dream, chances are they

876
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:19.239
<v Speaker 3>smarter than you are, and they have people in their

877
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.079
<v Speaker 3>camp that earn a living protecting them from people like us.

878
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:25.920
<v Speaker 3>And you have to lay it out. It's like you know,

879
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.079
<v Speaker 3>I learned at a very young age, don't don't bs

880
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:34.519
<v Speaker 3>and build this picture of total fantasy. Go in with

881
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:36.280
<v Speaker 3>the mindset as you're going to get a base hit,

882
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.519
<v Speaker 3>an occasion old double if you ever get a grand

883
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:41.920
<v Speaker 3>slam Hallelijah. But that can't be what you're selling because

884
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:43.000
<v Speaker 3>it's lightning in a bottle.

885
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I mean, if you're always if you're if

886
00:42:46.039 --> 00:42:49.000
<v Speaker 2>you only look at the home runs and not the

887
00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:52.519
<v Speaker 2>not the bunts and the singles. And that's when most

888
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.679
<v Speaker 2>and that's what most filmmakers do. They look at the

889
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 2>best case scenario. They never look at the worst case

890
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:00.119
<v Speaker 2>scenario or the general like it's one out of a

891
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.719
<v Speaker 2>a thousand one or out of ten thousand, you know,

892
00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:06.199
<v Speaker 2>do that kind of big kind of money that blows

893
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:08.639
<v Speaker 2>out the once is and the and the I mean

894
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:12.199
<v Speaker 2>paranormal activities once in it once a decade, you know?

895
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:15.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but how many millions did Paramount put into that movie? Seven?

896
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And I and I know, and I know the

897
00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.360
<v Speaker 2>guys who I mean who worked on that.

898
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:22.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, and people at Paramount who acquired.

899
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:26.039
<v Speaker 2>It, right exactly, so we know I knew the stories

900
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 2>behind it, Like oh yeah, they pumped a ton of

901
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:30.400
<v Speaker 2>cash into this. It wasn't like it's like Mariachi, Like,

902
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:32.320
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, it was a seven thousand dollars movie that

903
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 2>made three million of the box office. Like yeah, well,

904
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:36.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, they did spend a little bit of money

905
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:41.519
<v Speaker 2>remastering it. They put a little money into marketing, you know,

906
00:43:41.559 --> 00:43:44.199
<v Speaker 2>but that's that that's not that doesn't serve the narrative.

907
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:45.440
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't serve.

908
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Wow, it doesn't. And I think the these of those

909
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:51.719
<v Speaker 3>sling blades and Napoleon Dynamites, because there were the Merrimaxes

910
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.800
<v Speaker 3>and the Hollywood videos and blockbuster outlets that these little

911
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:58.440
<v Speaker 3>gems found found life and they flourished, you know.

912
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, man, I can't even think we haven't had

913
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:07.559
<v Speaker 2>anything like that happened, Like a movie out of nowhere

914
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:09.519
<v Speaker 2>with no stars.

915
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:12.480
<v Speaker 3>Well nowhere not not. The deal was already done. Let's

916
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:14.880
<v Speaker 3>send it to Sundance, will announce it like.

917
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Literally nowhere, no no talent in the in the movie

918
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:21.880
<v Speaker 2>or like barely any no bankable stars, no, nothing like

919
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:25.400
<v Speaker 2>a Napoleon Dynamite style like that goes off and makes

920
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:29.559
<v Speaker 2>fifty million dollars or Brothers McMullen. Yeah, that went on

921
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:34.400
<v Speaker 2>to thirty million dollars with nobody, like literally nobody, nobody.

922
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:36.599
<v Speaker 3>It was a sting project practically.

923
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I just put that thing together those I

924
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.400
<v Speaker 2>don't know if that's even possible today, And that in

925
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:46.039
<v Speaker 2>the way it was then because the marketplace was different.

926
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:49.199
<v Speaker 2>There was a marketplace for indie films, and that's the

927
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:50.880
<v Speaker 2>big thing that a lot of people don't understand is

928
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:55.159
<v Speaker 2>there was in the nineties an infrastructure being built for

929
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:59.559
<v Speaker 2>independent films. The DVD market was huge. There were still

930
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:02.559
<v Speaker 2>hollyw with videos and blockbusters are running around. You know,

931
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Rick when he was on the show Rick link Letter,

932
00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:07.760
<v Speaker 2>when he was talking about Slacker, He's like, the reason

933
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:12.679
<v Speaker 2>why Slacker found the bomb made money is because there

934
00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:15.880
<v Speaker 2>was an infrastructure starting to be built in the early nineties.

935
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:19.239
<v Speaker 2>There were indie movies in the eighties. There was really

936
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:23.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, great art you know, independent filmmakers that make

937
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 2>great films in the eighties and in the seventies, but

938
00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:29.400
<v Speaker 2>there wasn't the infrastructure to make money with him. The

939
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:31.840
<v Speaker 2>easy writer was like the you know, and it's still

940
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Jack frickin Nicholson and Dennis Hopper in it. Yeah, yeah,

941
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.920
<v Speaker 2>back then and that was considered indie. But there were

942
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:42.119
<v Speaker 2>still independent filmmakers making movies back then, but there wasn't

943
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:46.320
<v Speaker 2>the infrastructure. So in the nineties there was this groundswell

944
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:50.840
<v Speaker 2>of of of places you could put movies and actually

945
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:54.199
<v Speaker 2>make money. Art house theaters, every studio had an indie

946
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:59.639
<v Speaker 2>armed araboun advantage, you know, Fox two thousands, all of those,

947
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:03.159
<v Speaker 2>all of those things were around for that and that's

948
00:46:03.199 --> 00:46:06.719
<v Speaker 2>where that's all kind of gone away. There's only a

949
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:09.599
<v Speaker 2>handful of those left Fox search Light or it's just

950
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:13.599
<v Speaker 2>just search Light Films now and Sony Picture Classics. And

951
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:17.920
<v Speaker 2>now they're not doing indies, they're doing big budget you know,

952
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:21.840
<v Speaker 2>with big stars. Yeah, like under ten million, Yeah, stars

953
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:23.480
<v Speaker 2>under ten millions. That's that's the.

954
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.880
<v Speaker 3>Globally different animal. And we don't have You know, It's

955
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:27.760
<v Speaker 3>funny is because I have a lot of friends in

956
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:30.719
<v Speaker 3>the music industry, and when Napster and file sharing became

957
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:33.239
<v Speaker 3>really big, I remember I went to a friend's house

958
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:35.840
<v Speaker 3>who had had a record release party, and he played

959
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.079
<v Speaker 3>some of the songs that he had on his record

960
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:40.119
<v Speaker 3>and I and he had a lot of success, and

961
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.320
<v Speaker 3>I remember saying, dude, this is this is huge. And

962
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:43.960
<v Speaker 3>he said to me, he said, let me tell you something.

963
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:47.199
<v Speaker 3>He said, music is free. He said, now, music is free.

964
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:49.559
<v Speaker 3>We don't make our money on music. We make money

965
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:52.280
<v Speaker 3>on touring. And he said, I'm worried about your industry

966
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 3>because you guys don't tour. And I thought, oh, that

967
00:46:55.760 --> 00:46:58.960
<v Speaker 3>was interesting. And as I look now, we're kind of

968
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:01.400
<v Speaker 3>so many of us are giving our these two streaming

969
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:06.199
<v Speaker 3>platforms for nothing, and we don't have an after party

970
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:09.079
<v Speaker 3>to keep people excited. Like an artist can go out.

971
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:11.639
<v Speaker 3>They can do an album in their home studio, may

972
00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:13.599
<v Speaker 3>cost them a few grand, and they put it out

973
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:15.280
<v Speaker 3>and they get a few singles on it that circulate

974
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.760
<v Speaker 3>on iTunes or YouTube. But they're giving that out and

975
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.079
<v Speaker 3>we're all sharing the links to it to friends, so

976
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:23.400
<v Speaker 3>they're really not getting a lot of money on it.

977
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:25.079
<v Speaker 3>But they can go out and tour and make fifty

978
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:27.559
<v Speaker 3>sixty eighty one hundred grand at night for three or

979
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.800
<v Speaker 3>four months. That's their follow What do we have and

980
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:33.119
<v Speaker 3>don't I don't know the answer to that, but it's

981
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:33.920
<v Speaker 3>something I think about.

982
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Well. I do have the answers in that book Rise

983
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:41.400
<v Speaker 2>of the Film to Producer, where you create multiple revenue

984
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:44.159
<v Speaker 2>streams and product lines based on your movie. Now, it

985
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't work for every kind of movie, every kind of story,

986
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.400
<v Speaker 2>but if you design it around that, it is a possibility.

987
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:53.239
<v Speaker 2>And there are examples of filmmakers giving the movie away

988
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.840
<v Speaker 2>as a loss leader to bring them into their funnels

989
00:47:56.840 --> 00:47:59.760
<v Speaker 2>to make money other ways. And I feel that on

990
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the I feel that that's really the future of independent filmmaking.

991
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:03.960
<v Speaker 2>I do truly believe.

992
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:07.000
<v Speaker 3>And you are a Trailblazer with that and have always

993
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.480
<v Speaker 3>been really good at marketing and building a brand when

994
00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:14.039
<v Speaker 3>you're when you're you don't have the brands such as

995
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:18.480
<v Speaker 3>you know, I F H, Academy or whatever you can build.

996
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:21.039
<v Speaker 3>It's in you're just you're going from film to film

997
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:21.880
<v Speaker 3>to film film.

998
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:26.280
<v Speaker 2>It's often it's just it's a it's a different way

999
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:28.280
<v Speaker 2>of looking at films. So like, I can't I don't

1000
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:29.599
<v Speaker 2>think that you know, you're not going to be selling

1001
00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:33.000
<v Speaker 2>double threat T shirts generally speaking, it's not that kind

1002
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:38.400
<v Speaker 2>of hold on, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm

1003
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:42.559
<v Speaker 2>sorry you are going to be selling double making covid

1004
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:43.199
<v Speaker 2>art pitch.

1005
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:47.280
<v Speaker 3>Again, I'm not selling them. It was already I know

1006
00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:50.000
<v Speaker 3>designed it and kerk.

1007
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Had, which is that's amazing, that's amazing. But generally, but

1008
00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:56.960
<v Speaker 2>generally speaking, like not every movie is set up for

1009
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.599
<v Speaker 2>a film entrepreneur model, But as a filmmaker you and go, Okay,

1010
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:03.000
<v Speaker 2>how can I build a sustainable business if I like

1011
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:06.559
<v Speaker 2>a certain genre? Can I build a brand around horror

1012
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:09.840
<v Speaker 2>movies like Bloom, like Blumhouse? Can you build a brand

1013
00:49:09.880 --> 00:49:14.000
<v Speaker 2>around action movies and like really branded so people know that?

1014
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Is it possible? Yeah, it's I'm not saying it's easy,

1015
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:18.239
<v Speaker 2>but it's pure.

1016
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:20.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, for us, it's it's kind of taking the

1017
00:49:20.039 --> 00:49:22.239
<v Speaker 3>hell Needham approach of the seventies and early eighties, if

1018
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.320
<v Speaker 3>that's Canniball run and flipping it where we're putting the

1019
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:27.599
<v Speaker 3>women in the driver's seat and the guys are writing Shotgun.

1020
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:29.800
<v Speaker 3>And that's kind of what we've been doing these last

1021
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.239
<v Speaker 3>three or four years, and it's been really exciting. It's like,

1022
00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:34.639
<v Speaker 3>but you're right, it's like we had break even during

1023
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.960
<v Speaker 3>the pandemic. Shot Double Threat. I've already shot Night Train

1024
00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:40.960
<v Speaker 3>prepping another film, but here I am promoting Double Threat,

1025
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:42.800
<v Speaker 3>but I'm already thinking about Night Train and how we're

1026
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 3>gonna market that. I mean, it's it's it's constant and

1027
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:47.599
<v Speaker 3>you work together a little bit.

1028
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:50.119
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I know, I don't. Now I have to

1029
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:53.480
<v Speaker 2>ask you. On the casting side, yeap. Double Threat I

1030
00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:56.440
<v Speaker 2>mean has a great cast. You know Matt Lawrence and

1031
00:49:56.679 --> 00:49:58.599
<v Speaker 2>you know I worked with them before. You love all

1032
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:01.559
<v Speaker 2>the Lawrence boys are great. I love it. We'll be

1033
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:07.840
<v Speaker 2>right back after a word from our sponsor and now

1034
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:08.679
<v Speaker 2>back to the show.

1035
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna be with him Friday. I love that.

1036
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Now tell him please tell mat I said hi, Austin.

1037
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.199
<v Speaker 2>Austin and Austin and I say hi. I did a

1038
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.159
<v Speaker 2>little work with him a little while ago. But but

1039
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:26.719
<v Speaker 2>generally speaking, nobody in your movie is this giant, bankable star.

1040
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:29.239
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, so they didn't have like, you know that

1041
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.119
<v Speaker 2>bringing huge money in, but they're good actors and that's great.

1042
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:37.320
<v Speaker 2>So how did you get this is the movie itself,

1043
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:40.960
<v Speaker 2>the genre and the trailer and what you've put together

1044
00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:43.280
<v Speaker 2>is that the star that helps sell the film?

1045
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.360
<v Speaker 3>You know what it was? It It basically was the

1046
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:49.840
<v Speaker 3>fact that we've got this lovely girl, Daniels Ryan, who's

1047
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.840
<v Speaker 3>five foot two, soaking wet with a full moon, and

1048
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:55.920
<v Speaker 3>he does all our own stunts and she's actually a

1049
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:57.800
<v Speaker 3>really good actress. She's actually the star of Night Train,

1050
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:03.199
<v Speaker 3>and we you know, that film was so different. We

1051
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:05.480
<v Speaker 3>got really blessed with DONALDA. Biery and Matthew Lawrence and

1052
00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 3>Kevin Joy. You know, it was somebody that one of

1053
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:11.480
<v Speaker 3>the producers found and had known and he was great.

1054
00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:14.039
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it was it was like, look, we know

1055
00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:16.280
<v Speaker 3>what we're dealing with. I mean, before we had cast

1056
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:18.239
<v Speaker 3>some of the people that we did, we were making

1057
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:23.280
<v Speaker 3>calls to so really respectable, bankable quote unquote names, and

1058
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:25.400
<v Speaker 3>we didn't even get past the hi, how you doing,

1059
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:27.320
<v Speaker 3>we're doing a film, and they said, dude, call us

1060
00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:29.519
<v Speaker 3>back when COVID's over. Because if they were bankable and

1061
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:32.320
<v Speaker 3>they had that kind of scratch, they didn't need to work.

1062
00:51:32.440 --> 00:51:35.400
<v Speaker 3>They weren't coming out of the house. And no disrespect

1063
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.480
<v Speaker 3>to who we did get, because they've all had tremendous

1064
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:39.079
<v Speaker 3>careers and to do it very well. But what was

1065
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:43.199
<v Speaker 3>really cool is Donald le Biery had called her agent

1066
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:45.519
<v Speaker 3>three days before we called her, and she said, I

1067
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:47.599
<v Speaker 3>know there are some crazy sum bitches out there that

1068
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:49.880
<v Speaker 3>are mavericks that are thumb in her nose to locking

1069
00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 3>themselves in the house anymore. Find me somebody respectable who's

1070
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 3>making a movie. So when we called Don's age, then

1071
00:51:56.199 --> 00:51:58.519
<v Speaker 3>she said, oh my god, Don just called me two

1072
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:00.760
<v Speaker 3>days ago saying find something. And the problem is that

1073
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.000
<v Speaker 3>there aren't many people out there making movies. So we

1074
00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:05.840
<v Speaker 3>got really lucky. Similar with Matthew Lawrence. Matthew had been

1075
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.880
<v Speaker 3>tired of being locked up for six seven months, and

1076
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:11.440
<v Speaker 3>as a filmmaker and producer at heart, and he was

1077
00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:14.000
<v Speaker 3>all about getting out and making art, and so we

1078
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:16.639
<v Speaker 3>got really fortunate. I wouldn't trade one actor in that

1079
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:18.679
<v Speaker 3>film for anybody in the world. I couldn't be more

1080
00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:22.239
<v Speaker 3>proud of that cast. But for us, you know, for

1081
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:25.800
<v Speaker 3>me and I it's it's Look, when you're working an

1082
00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:28.840
<v Speaker 3>indie film, you're not going to go get the A listers.

1083
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:29.519
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1084
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:31.760
<v Speaker 3>I'll never forget when I was doing my film at Sony,

1085
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:34.679
<v Speaker 3>when we when we were simmering down, they said, hey,

1086
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.039
<v Speaker 3>anything you get attached with Vince Vaughn, you have a

1087
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.280
<v Speaker 3>go picture. And that tells you the power that an

1088
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:41.039
<v Speaker 3>actor may have.

1089
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:41.960
<v Speaker 2>It is tours.

1090
00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:44.920
<v Speaker 3>Well, when you're making films for half a million dollars,

1091
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:48.159
<v Speaker 3>you don't get those kind of actors. So what I

1092
00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:49.880
<v Speaker 3>always try to do, when I talk about it in

1093
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:55.719
<v Speaker 3>the book extensively, is get actors that people are familiar with.

1094
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:58.960
<v Speaker 3>They may not be writing the biggest wave today, but

1095
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:01.639
<v Speaker 3>at one point in your career they were. Or think

1096
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:05.000
<v Speaker 3>globally again, it's like, I know Matthew Lawrence has done this,

1097
00:53:05.079 --> 00:53:08.159
<v Speaker 3>as Doubtfire has done Boynet's World. I look at somebody

1098
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:11.199
<v Speaker 3>like don Oliverery, who was in you know, A House

1099
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.159
<v Speaker 3>of Cards and all her House of lives forgive me

1100
00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:16.960
<v Speaker 3>and heroes. These shows are being syndicated in the one

1101
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:20.719
<v Speaker 3>hundred countries right now. So just because we may not

1102
00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:25.480
<v Speaker 3>recognize the name or face immediately, does it mean globally

1103
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:28.559
<v Speaker 3>as Lauren on TV three or four times a day

1104
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:32.760
<v Speaker 3>and they're still stars And that's how I cast my ess.

1105
00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:35.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's that's a really smart way of going

1106
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:38.280
<v Speaker 2>about it, because they might not look like, oh, well,

1107
00:53:38.920 --> 00:53:41.079
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't look like somebody I know, or does isn't

1108
00:53:41.119 --> 00:53:42.800
<v Speaker 2>that well what has she done? Was she a big

1109
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:46.679
<v Speaker 2>star in a show for eight seasons or did they

1110
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:48.679
<v Speaker 2>do some other big studio movies at one point? And

1111
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:51.119
<v Speaker 2>their name is still people recognize or see their face

1112
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:54.400
<v Speaker 2>and they recognize it. If the budget level, it depends

1113
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:57.760
<v Speaker 2>on the budget level. So you know, if your budget

1114
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.000
<v Speaker 2>level is starting to go to three, four, five, six million,

1115
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:05.199
<v Speaker 2>and you have to get bankable names to be responsible

1116
00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:06.480
<v Speaker 2>to the investors.

1117
00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:10.840
<v Speaker 3>If you're making a five million dollar film, you better

1118
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:14.920
<v Speaker 3>allocate two million dollars large to one or two stars

1119
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:18.199
<v Speaker 3>to justify what you're spending. You have to wait and

1120
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:21.480
<v Speaker 3>trust me, I have this discussion with buyers, distributors and

1121
00:54:21.559 --> 00:54:23.960
<v Speaker 3>other filmmakers. I got a lot of friends with a

1122
00:54:23.960 --> 00:54:25.800
<v Speaker 3>lot of five million dollar movies. They can't even get

1123
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:29.480
<v Speaker 3>looked at because they this cast it. And that's Scarrett.

1124
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:31.719
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you there was a movie I worked on

1125
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.800
<v Speaker 2>years ago. I did, I did all the post on it,

1126
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:37.320
<v Speaker 2>finished it up, had no stars in it. They went

1127
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:41.880
<v Speaker 2>out to the marketplace. Everyone said, sorry, you had nobody

1128
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:44.599
<v Speaker 2>in it. If I know it's a sci fi action thing,

1129
00:54:44.719 --> 00:54:49.239
<v Speaker 2>don't care. Went back. He raised another fifty sixty grand,

1130
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:51.960
<v Speaker 2>one hundred grand something like that, got two stars. I

1131
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:54.559
<v Speaker 2>think he got like one of the guys from Stargate,

1132
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:58.480
<v Speaker 2>the show Stargate and it's a sci fi thing, And

1133
00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:02.559
<v Speaker 2>he got Michael Madson for a day each shot him out,

1134
00:55:03.159 --> 00:55:07.559
<v Speaker 2>re edited the movie, reasserted the new scenes. He came

1135
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:09.360
<v Speaker 2>back to me like eight months later he's like, hey,

1136
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:11.639
<v Speaker 2>can we redo the movie? Like what do you what

1137
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:13.840
<v Speaker 2>do you to do? I think, oh, okay, we did that.

1138
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:16.519
<v Speaker 2>He packaged it, put him on the cover, went back

1139
00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:18.800
<v Speaker 2>to the marketplace and they said we'll take it.

1140
00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:21.360
<v Speaker 3>I will tell you I had a friend of years

1141
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:24.440
<v Speaker 3>ago who did a film. He spent five hundred thousand

1142
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:26.320
<v Speaker 3>of his own money on it, shot it in thirty

1143
00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:29.920
<v Speaker 3>five millimeter and couldn't get it looked at. It was

1144
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:32.320
<v Speaker 3>just it was his friends and locals in another state,

1145
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:35.400
<v Speaker 3>and he brought it to California and it wasn't a

1146
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:37.559
<v Speaker 3>bad film. It just didn't have anybody in it. And

1147
00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:39.320
<v Speaker 3>it was the exact same story. Somebody said, if you

1148
00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:41.760
<v Speaker 3>can put a star or two in a scene and

1149
00:55:41.760 --> 00:55:45.039
<v Speaker 3>reshoot a scene or two, you may get somewhere. I know,

1150
00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:47.639
<v Speaker 3>to date this film is generated over four million dollars

1151
00:55:47.679 --> 00:55:49.760
<v Speaker 3>for him because he just went out and got he

1152
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.440
<v Speaker 3>We literally went into a studio and shot one actor,

1153
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:56.320
<v Speaker 3>replaced an actor from another scene when a known actor

1154
00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:58.840
<v Speaker 3>paid him, you know, probably fifteen twenty grand for the day.

1155
00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:01.639
<v Speaker 3>Did anyone about another cameo for a guy to play

1156
00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:04.360
<v Speaker 3>an arresting officer. To date, that film has made over

1157
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:06.480
<v Speaker 3>four million dollars for him. And this was a film

1158
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:09.239
<v Speaker 3>that nobody looked at for eighteen months. They were just like, dude,

1159
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:10.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't even see it. Nobody wanted it.

1160
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.519
<v Speaker 2>And that's the importance of a bankable a bankable name.

1161
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:16.920
<v Speaker 2>So and again, it's not and I've said this so

1162
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:18.119
<v Speaker 2>many times on the show, and I think I have

1163
00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to say it again for people to understand it's not

1164
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:24.880
<v Speaker 2>out of reach for to shoot somebody out in a

1165
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:31.440
<v Speaker 2>day fifteen ten five grand a day, ten grand a day,

1166
00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:35.239
<v Speaker 2>twenty grand a day for an eight or ten hour day.

1167
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Is you're going to get that money back tenfold if

1168
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:43.519
<v Speaker 2>you're smart. And it's so important, and filmmakers just don't

1169
00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:45.639
<v Speaker 2>think they can one. They don't have the confidence to

1170
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:49.320
<v Speaker 2>think that they can get it done. But I've just

1171
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:51.800
<v Speaker 2>seen it. I'm working with people right now, some clients

1172
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.880
<v Speaker 2>that are doing it currently, and they're going out to

1173
00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:57.039
<v Speaker 2>the talent. They're like, here's how much I have. Okay,

1174
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.239
<v Speaker 2>let's do this. Let's do that. Great. I need you

1175
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:04.840
<v Speaker 2>for five hours words five hours to shoot out scenes

1176
00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:08.039
<v Speaker 2>for this movie. Can you do it? And I worked

1177
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:13.039
<v Speaker 2>on a movie that had Sean Patrick Finnery from Boondogs

1178
00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and then the young Indiana Jones and a million other things. Right,

1179
00:57:16.519 --> 00:57:19.199
<v Speaker 2>so they do so brilliant They shot him out one

1180
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:23.159
<v Speaker 2>day because that's the whole movie. He's in the entire movie.

1181
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:24.320
<v Speaker 2>He's not just in one scene.

1182
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:25.360
<v Speaker 3>They peppered him.

1183
00:57:26.440 --> 00:57:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they they peppered him throughout the movie. She's in

1184
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:31.679
<v Speaker 2>like six or seven scenes, but they're all in the

1185
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:33.840
<v Speaker 2>same place. In other words, he's the cop that they

1186
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:36.000
<v Speaker 2>come back to like to meet with and they always

1187
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:39.039
<v Speaker 2>meet it at the parking garage. So they just shot

1188
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:42.639
<v Speaker 2>the parking garage shirt, changed your shirt, spread to the

1189
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:46.079
<v Speaker 2>hitter and and and he dropped him in and he

1190
00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:48.440
<v Speaker 2>was the sun and he's on the cover. So and

1191
00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:50.079
<v Speaker 2>they shout him out for a day and then and

1192
00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:53.000
<v Speaker 2>then you've got him. Now you've got them marketable movie.

1193
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:55.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's the that's the way filmmakers need to think,

1194
00:57:56.119 --> 00:58:00.599
<v Speaker 2>especially in a commerce based film art house. Different conversation.

1195
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:03.039
<v Speaker 3>And you know what, let me let me cap that

1196
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:06.039
<v Speaker 3>by saying, I have somebody that was brought to my

1197
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:08.360
<v Speaker 3>life a couple of years ago who shot a film

1198
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:13.039
<v Speaker 3>with three a list well known stars and couldn't get

1199
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:15.360
<v Speaker 3>anybody to look at the film. And it was content.

1200
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:19.679
<v Speaker 3>It was content and that was heartbreaking because this guy

1201
00:58:19.760 --> 00:58:22.519
<v Speaker 3>actually spent a million and a half dollars.

1202
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Well what was the content? What was the wrong with

1203
00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:24.440
<v Speaker 2>the content?

1204
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:26.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, there's you know, there's two rules in a movie.

1205
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Don't kill a kid and don't kick a dog anymore, right,

1206
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:30.039
<v Speaker 3>and he.

1207
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Killed the kid and killed the dog.

1208
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:34.639
<v Speaker 3>Well, they killed the kid and kicked the dog, and

1209
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:36.760
<v Speaker 3>and that was it's like, dude, But it was also

1210
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:38.639
<v Speaker 3>involving such assault to a child.

1211
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:42.440
<v Speaker 4>That's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, well you not,

1212
00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:47.480
<v Speaker 4>I mean no not these actors who have, like two

1213
00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:50.840
<v Speaker 4>of the actors generated over three billion in the box

1214
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:54.400
<v Speaker 4>office on their work, and they agreed to do this

1215
00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:57.559
<v Speaker 4>and you wasted this bullet and they can't even get

1216
00:58:57.559 --> 00:58:59.719
<v Speaker 4>it looked at because it's it's based on a true

1217
00:58:59.719 --> 00:59:00.880
<v Speaker 4>story everybody knows.

1218
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:05.920
<v Speaker 3>And they're like, yeah, no, we touched a knotty.

1219
00:59:06.920 --> 00:59:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Might as well throw some religion and politics and there,

1220
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:13.079
<v Speaker 2>if you will, at detective the might as well love that.

1221
00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh let's talk about religion and politics. Well we're ont it.

1222
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:18.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's oh my god, that's so heartbreaking, but

1223
00:59:18.800 --> 00:59:21.400
<v Speaker 2>that one. But that's the kind of stuff that happens

1224
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:23.519
<v Speaker 2>all the time.

1225
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, hey we got the cast. We missed we missed

1226
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:29.679
<v Speaker 3>the content. Hey we got the content, we didn't get cast.

1227
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.199
<v Speaker 3>I just think, is indie rats, we have to we

1228
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:34.280
<v Speaker 3>have to think again. And you say it so rightly.

1229
00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:38.079
<v Speaker 3>Is commerce business and and and art? And and how

1230
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:40.639
<v Speaker 3>do you find that? And it's it's it's about you know.

1231
00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:42.519
<v Speaker 3>I remember I had a film that that had the

1232
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:45.440
<v Speaker 3>green light before the E seven crash, which Thank god

1233
00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:47.480
<v Speaker 3>it didn't happen, because it was, it would have been miscast.

1234
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:49.280
<v Speaker 3>We had a lot of angless actors getting at one

1235
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.079
<v Speaker 3>of the big agencies packaging it, and they had some

1236
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:56.039
<v Speaker 3>serious cats wanting to get on board. And I was

1237
00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:59.480
<v Speaker 3>adamant about the lead being an unknown. I was adamant

1238
00:59:59.480 --> 00:59:59.840
<v Speaker 3>about it.

1239
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:03.639
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1240
01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:08.559
<v Speaker 2>and now back to the show.

1241
01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:14.320
<v Speaker 3>Because of her meager world in the script, I didn't

1242
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:16.920
<v Speaker 3>want somebody looking at like Jennifer Anderson and a good girl.

1243
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:19.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, she makes a million dollars an episode to

1244
01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:21.280
<v Speaker 3>think I'm about skinning knocked on the door. Oh no, kids,

1245
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:24.079
<v Speaker 3>is you know when you're watching this girl who works

1246
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:26.800
<v Speaker 3>in a mini mart who supposedly broke but it's it's

1247
01:00:26.800 --> 01:00:28.960
<v Speaker 3>headline news everywhere that the stars of Friends are making

1248
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:31.079
<v Speaker 3>a million dollars to the episode. I didn't want that.

1249
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:33.360
<v Speaker 3>I didn't want that to taint it. So I was

1250
01:00:33.400 --> 01:00:35.320
<v Speaker 3>adamant about in a note and I remember ahead of

1251
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:38.159
<v Speaker 3>a studio brought me into his office and he said,

1252
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.760
<v Speaker 3>you're you're dating a grave. You have a film that

1253
01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:45.760
<v Speaker 3>you have everybody clamoring to do. That is bakable and respectable.

1254
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:47.159
<v Speaker 3>Yet you want to hang it out on a note

1255
01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:49.360
<v Speaker 3>you're never going to get this movie pass go And

1256
01:00:49.400 --> 01:00:50.800
<v Speaker 3>he was right. He was right.

1257
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:53.679
<v Speaker 2>So let me ask you, then, how did you get

1258
01:00:53.719 --> 01:00:56.840
<v Speaker 2>distribution for this? How? What is the distribution? How are

1259
01:00:56.920 --> 01:00:58.159
<v Speaker 2>you all for? Bratt?

1260
01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:01.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was really you know, look, it was really simple.

1261
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:03.599
<v Speaker 3>Knew we knew domestically that we would be looking at

1262
01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:06.159
<v Speaker 3>a VOD situation. We didn't we didn't have our own

1263
01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:08.840
<v Speaker 3>farts on this one. We didn't, you know, have any

1264
01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:11.840
<v Speaker 3>delusions of grandeur. It was this fun, little dirt movie

1265
01:01:11.920 --> 01:01:15.440
<v Speaker 3>we made with our friends and kicked ass and took

1266
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:18.440
<v Speaker 3>no prisoners and it is what it is. And so

1267
01:01:18.519 --> 01:01:20.400
<v Speaker 3>it was one of those things where it was about

1268
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:24.639
<v Speaker 3>partnering with somebody who captured the vision. We wanted a

1269
01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:30.480
<v Speaker 3>woman run company to be behind the film, because we

1270
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:34.719
<v Speaker 3>are women driven in our storytelling. And VMI has got

1271
01:01:34.760 --> 01:01:37.280
<v Speaker 3>a wonderful group that runs that company, and they happen

1272
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:39.760
<v Speaker 3>to be some wonderful, lovely ladies, and they saw it

1273
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:41.519
<v Speaker 3>and they just fell in love with it. They just

1274
01:01:41.559 --> 01:01:44.039
<v Speaker 3>loved the idea of a woman out there kicking ass,

1275
01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:46.519
<v Speaker 3>riding a horse bear back and shooting somebody with a

1276
01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:49.480
<v Speaker 3>bow and arrow, you know, having the fight scenes that

1277
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:52.239
<v Speaker 3>she does, and it just was one of those things,

1278
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:54.800
<v Speaker 3>Alex where for us a lot of times, it's not

1279
01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:57.239
<v Speaker 3>about the dollars up front, it's about what is the

1280
01:01:57.280 --> 01:01:59.559
<v Speaker 3>passion and commitment someone who's going to have to put

1281
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:03.800
<v Speaker 3>product out That was most important and fortunately for us,

1282
01:02:03.880 --> 01:02:06.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, the film is new, so it went to

1283
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:10.280
<v Speaker 3>can piggybacking with Night Train and we're starting to sell

1284
01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:13.440
<v Speaker 3>up the globe now, which is really exciting because it

1285
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:19.320
<v Speaker 3>is a fun action comedy without slapstick comedy that sometimes

1286
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:21.960
<v Speaker 3>doesn't translate for in it's physical comedy and you can

1287
01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:23.639
<v Speaker 3>always do well with that. So it's it's got the

1288
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:29.760
<v Speaker 3>combination of some fun action sex, horses, fights, airplanes and pins,

1289
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:33.760
<v Speaker 3>some love and you know road type movies. So we're

1290
01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:36.199
<v Speaker 3>starting to see that it's translating very well across the

1291
01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:37.320
<v Speaker 3>globe here.

1292
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:39.400
<v Speaker 2>You've already started selling out different territories.

1293
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:42.159
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I think we got twelve thirteen territories since Canna.

1294
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:43.679
<v Speaker 2>That's amazing.

1295
01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:46.079
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, it's really it's a really good I mean,

1296
01:02:46.119 --> 01:02:48.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, talking about Germany, China or not. I'm sorry

1297
01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:52.840
<v Speaker 3>not eat service, no no, no, Japan, South Korea, Germany,

1298
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:56.039
<v Speaker 3>you know, South America. I mean it's like I looked

1299
01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:58.280
<v Speaker 3>at something that came about yesterday I was like, God, dang,

1300
01:02:58.360 --> 01:03:00.960
<v Speaker 3>it seems like starting to lose. This is exciting. So

1301
01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:05.000
<v Speaker 3>the UK. Yeah, and that's just based on us just

1302
01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:08.280
<v Speaker 3>going out there with a cool trailer and some fun art. Unfortunately,

1303
01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:10.880
<v Speaker 3>I'll address it. You know, we came out a week after,

1304
01:03:11.239 --> 01:03:15.719
<v Speaker 3>two weeks after the tragedy in Olbie, and that was

1305
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:17.920
<v Speaker 3>a big problem because we had already started putting out

1306
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:20.480
<v Speaker 3>the artwork and that was something that we all, you know,

1307
01:03:20.960 --> 01:03:24.639
<v Speaker 3>realized that that's something that in hindsight, we wish you

1308
01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:26.679
<v Speaker 3>would have not you know, you don't know what you

1309
01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:28.840
<v Speaker 3>don't know going in, but you know, having your star

1310
01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:31.280
<v Speaker 3>with an AAR fifteen on the poster a week after

1311
01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:34.880
<v Speaker 3>that tragedy is not the best marketing tool. But the

1312
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:36.920
<v Speaker 3>horse was already out of the barnet.

1313
01:03:37.559 --> 01:03:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And that's the thing too, Like there's just elements

1314
01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:43.199
<v Speaker 2>and there's variables in filmmaking that you just don't know.

1315
01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:45.320
<v Speaker 2>It could be good or bad, something like what you

1316
01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:47.679
<v Speaker 2>just said. Obviously it's an egg of light. But then

1317
01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:51.159
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden your star gets picked up and

1318
01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:53.719
<v Speaker 2>is like going to be the New World movie. And

1319
01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:55.599
<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden you're like, oh wait a minute,

1320
01:03:56.840 --> 01:04:00.159
<v Speaker 2>now this property is worth a lot more because our

1321
01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:02.079
<v Speaker 2>star is going to be on a big show where

1322
01:04:02.079 --> 01:04:04.280
<v Speaker 2>a big so you just these are variables you just

1323
01:04:04.360 --> 01:04:06.039
<v Speaker 2>can't plan for. So you kind of got out the

1324
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:10.280
<v Speaker 2>roll with it and see unfortunately and what happens.

1325
01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:12.880
<v Speaker 3>And unfortunately there's the gunplay in the movie is minimal

1326
01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:15.400
<v Speaker 3>and it's all justified. Good guys versus bad guys. It's

1327
01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:16.400
<v Speaker 3>not anything like.

1328
01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:17.480
<v Speaker 2>No, no, norexsit.

1329
01:04:17.559 --> 01:04:21.199
<v Speaker 3>But you can't for some did it well?

1330
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:25.320
<v Speaker 2>The Stranger Things I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, Remember Stranger Things right?

1331
01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Remember Stranger Things right? The New Stranger Things eries, the

1332
01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:31.239
<v Speaker 2>play opening, the opening sequence, they like literally put a

1333
01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:33.400
<v Speaker 2>thing on, like hey, this might be a problem. The

1334
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:38.360
<v Speaker 2>opening of of Obi wan Kenobi, same thing, they're like,

1335
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:41.960
<v Speaker 2>this might you know they made those They made those

1336
01:04:41.960 --> 01:04:44.000
<v Speaker 2>shows years, like a year ago.

1337
01:04:44.119 --> 01:04:49.679
<v Speaker 3>Okayprett in November December twenty the kyart was done seven

1338
01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:50.239
<v Speaker 3>months ago.

1339
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:52.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it looks exactly.

1340
01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:54.920
<v Speaker 3>We knew it was coming out in June of twenty

1341
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:57.480
<v Speaker 3>twenty two. I made two movies since that. It was

1342
01:04:57.559 --> 01:04:59.000
<v Speaker 3>like out of side, out of mind.

1343
01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:01.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is what it is. So you just have

1344
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:03.440
<v Speaker 2>to kind of, you know, roll with the roll with

1345
01:05:03.480 --> 01:05:05.639
<v Speaker 2>the punches in that set. I want you to discuss

1346
01:05:05.679 --> 01:05:10.400
<v Speaker 2>something for me. Can you please debunk the myth of

1347
01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:15.639
<v Speaker 2>streamers and the that there's so much money to be

1348
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:17.800
<v Speaker 2>made by in the bed they're buying. Netflix is buying

1349
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:21.840
<v Speaker 2>movies from independent filmmakers left and right. They're writing checks like.

1350
01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:24.400
<v Speaker 3>They are writing See they are writing checks.

1351
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Not to us, but not to us.

1352
01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:29.079
<v Speaker 3>Let me playing something. I will give you two examples.

1353
01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:32.199
<v Speaker 3>I have a friend who is a very very respected

1354
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.000
<v Speaker 3>filmmaker that made an independent film for eight hundred thousand

1355
01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:40.559
<v Speaker 3>dollars they made back when Netflix and spending. They made

1356
01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:43.000
<v Speaker 3>a deal with Netflix for two hundred and fifty grand.

1357
01:05:43.559 --> 01:05:47.199
<v Speaker 3>Once it went on Netflix, nobody will, nobody else would

1358
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:49.320
<v Speaker 3>look at it because oh you're on Netflix. By so

1359
01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:51.840
<v Speaker 3>it made an eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars movie

1360
01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:54.440
<v Speaker 3>made back to fifty but Netflix haste. I think over

1361
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:57.480
<v Speaker 3>the course of two years. They pay it in quarterly installments.

1362
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.159
<v Speaker 3>Plus you've got your twenty percent sales commission fee. So

1363
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:02.559
<v Speaker 3>and they're deliverables, which A're gonna cost you more because

1364
01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:05.440
<v Speaker 3>they're not in a standard deliverable, so you may see

1365
01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:07.079
<v Speaker 3>out of that two fifty, they may see it one

1366
01:06:07.159 --> 01:06:09.239
<v Speaker 3>hundred and seventy five thousand dollars over the course of

1367
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:12.679
<v Speaker 3>two years. And then I have a friend, I got

1368
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:13.960
<v Speaker 3>to be careful how we talk about this. He had

1369
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:19.119
<v Speaker 3>a number one show on Netflix during the pandemic. He's

1370
01:06:19.599 --> 01:06:23.079
<v Speaker 3>made nothing and is pitching on a regular basis to

1371
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:25.639
<v Speaker 3>them and other streamers to hopefully get another movie made.

1372
01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:29.239
<v Speaker 3>And he had a number one hit on Netflix during

1373
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:33.159
<v Speaker 3>the pandemic, and he's like, dude, it barely covered the

1374
01:06:33.280 --> 01:06:34.880
<v Speaker 3>cost of deliverables.

1375
01:06:36.199 --> 01:06:39.239
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's the and that's the thing, and that's

1376
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:41.239
<v Speaker 2>the thing. I want people to hear it because everyone's like, oh,

1377
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:42.280
<v Speaker 2>you gotta get a Netflix again.

1378
01:06:42.320 --> 01:06:43.920
<v Speaker 3>Definitely waited.

1379
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Look I got on my first one got on Hulu,

1380
01:06:47.239 --> 01:06:50.280
<v Speaker 2>which is an insanity. How my five thousand dollars movie

1381
01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:53.039
<v Speaker 2>got picked up by Hulu. That's great, it was, but

1382
01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:54.480
<v Speaker 2>it was a different time. It was.

1383
01:06:54.599 --> 01:06:56.920
<v Speaker 3>It was probably six seven years ago when Hulu.

1384
01:06:56.719 --> 01:07:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Was it was it was twenty twenty seventeen. Okay, it

1385
01:07:05.079 --> 01:07:08.400
<v Speaker 2>was twenty seventeen, so it was twenty seventeen, and you know,

1386
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:10.760
<v Speaker 2>and I also sold it to China. So there, that's

1387
01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:13.239
<v Speaker 2>how old that is. So because Johanna was bying at that.

1388
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:15.599
<v Speaker 3>Point, Yeah, that door was closed.

1389
01:07:16.400 --> 01:07:18.400
<v Speaker 2>That door was closed right now, but that door was open.

1390
01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:20.760
<v Speaker 2>And I made good money on both of those. It

1391
01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:23.920
<v Speaker 2>was both of those sales. It was great, but it's

1392
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.719
<v Speaker 2>not what And by the way, if I didn't make

1393
01:07:26.760 --> 01:07:29.000
<v Speaker 2>a five thousand dollar movie, that Hulu deal wouldn't have

1394
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:31.239
<v Speaker 2>really been made a whole lot of sense. But because

1395
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I made a five thousand dollars movie, it was like,

1396
01:07:33.960 --> 01:07:35.880
<v Speaker 2>of course, it wasn't.

1397
01:07:35.679 --> 01:07:37.400
<v Speaker 3>A lot in the process, which is what we talked

1398
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:39.679
<v Speaker 3>about earlier in my backright of doing that five hundred

1399
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:42.079
<v Speaker 3>dollars forty five minute pilot that did more for my

1400
01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:46.599
<v Speaker 3>career than anything, than anything than I don't And you're right.

1401
01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:48.440
<v Speaker 3>And that's the thing is I always it's like so

1402
01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:50.400
<v Speaker 3>funny when I talk to people, whether they are people

1403
01:07:50.440 --> 01:07:52.719
<v Speaker 3>not in the business or people coming. I mentioned to

1404
01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:57.199
<v Speaker 3>deal with Netflix. You deal with Netflix. It's like, no, no.

1405
01:07:57.159 --> 01:07:58.760
<v Speaker 2>But that's it. But that's it. But that's a little

1406
01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:02.639
<v Speaker 2>secret for everybody who's not in the know. Everyone thinks

1407
01:08:02.679 --> 01:08:05.079
<v Speaker 2>that like, oh, you've got to be on the major streams.

1408
01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Amazon's not buying anything, and if you get on HBO Max,

1409
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:14.000
<v Speaker 2>you've got to have some major star power. And I've

1410
01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:16.800
<v Speaker 2>spoken to filmmakers who have their films bought, but then

1411
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:19.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, but you have this guy who's in

1412
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:22.479
<v Speaker 2>a Marvel movie, who's the lead in a Marvel movie,

1413
01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:25.720
<v Speaker 2>who's about to explode in the movie. That's probably one

1414
01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:27.279
<v Speaker 2>of the reasons. And it also covered a bunch of

1415
01:08:27.319 --> 01:08:28.840
<v Speaker 2>other boxes that they wanted to chick off.

1416
01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I get that, And again it goes back

1417
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:35.079
<v Speaker 3>to how you package market and cast and content in

1418
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:37.239
<v Speaker 3>what you're putting together. As we talked about before, but

1419
01:08:38.159 --> 01:08:41.119
<v Speaker 3>the streaming world, especially in North America, is very tough.

1420
01:08:41.439 --> 01:08:43.840
<v Speaker 3>That's why I always tell filmmakers think about your cast

1421
01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:46.920
<v Speaker 3>and think global and realize you're making a movie for

1422
01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:50.239
<v Speaker 3>fifty four territories at one hundred and something countries that

1423
01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:53.960
<v Speaker 3>potentially can buy because you know, I think the average

1424
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.159
<v Speaker 3>is what eighteen to twenty two percent of a film's

1425
01:08:56.199 --> 01:08:58.640
<v Speaker 3>revenue comes from North America, but when you're an indie

1426
01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:02.199
<v Speaker 3>rad it could be as little as four to six percent.

1427
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:06.399
<v Speaker 3>And that's something to remember, and that means that there

1428
01:09:06.439 --> 01:09:08.119
<v Speaker 3>still are parts of the world that are buying brick

1429
01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:12.039
<v Speaker 3>and mortar video, DVD, Blu ray. It's still out there

1430
01:09:12.199 --> 01:09:14.600
<v Speaker 3>and there are small theaters around the country or I'm

1431
01:09:14.680 --> 01:09:16.960
<v Speaker 3>forgiving not the country around the world that'll badly put

1432
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:20.119
<v Speaker 3>your movies in there. It does, it does exist. It's

1433
01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:23.119
<v Speaker 3>just it's not here and it's not sexy. You know, wegain.

1434
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:24.920
<v Speaker 3>It's why I was saying earlier is stop making your

1435
01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:29.159
<v Speaker 3>movies for Instagram likes. That's not It's not all about

1436
01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:31.199
<v Speaker 3>the bullshit red carpet that you've put up on the

1437
01:09:31.239 --> 01:09:33.640
<v Speaker 3>side to proceed a boulevard that's duct taped by your

1438
01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:36.359
<v Speaker 3>buddy to try to get people. That's not why we're

1439
01:09:36.399 --> 01:09:39.520
<v Speaker 3>making movies. It's a business. Think global. Get your head

1440
01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:41.920
<v Speaker 3>out of the San Fernando Valley in West LA and

1441
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:43.840
<v Speaker 3>start thinking about the world. And that's what I try

1442
01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:45.720
<v Speaker 3>to impress upon your filmmakers.

1443
01:09:46.119 --> 01:09:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I understand exactly what you're talking because I

1444
01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:51.239
<v Speaker 2>lived in for thirteen years, so I know exactly what

1445
01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:53.600
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about. But a lot of filmmakers who even

1446
01:09:53.640 --> 01:09:55.760
<v Speaker 2>if they're not in LA, they think that that's making

1447
01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:59.439
<v Speaker 2>it and they're turning to like, you gotta look at it. God,

1448
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, walk around afm man. We'll be right back

1449
01:10:03.640 --> 01:10:09.600
<v Speaker 2>after a word from our sponsor, and now back to

1450
01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:13.399
<v Speaker 2>the show, and you can see who are the real

1451
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:17.119
<v Speaker 2>filmmakers who are making money. Yeah, I don't care if

1452
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:19.359
<v Speaker 2>the movies are good or not. That's not that's not

1453
01:10:19.479 --> 01:10:22.039
<v Speaker 2>the question. Here's that's all making money.

1454
01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:23.479
<v Speaker 3>Are you making money?

1455
01:10:23.640 --> 01:10:25.439
<v Speaker 2>Are you making money? And then you, as a filmmaker,

1456
01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:27.840
<v Speaker 2>whoever's listening out there, you have to ask yourself the question,

1457
01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:29.800
<v Speaker 2>what kind of films do you want to make? Do

1458
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:33.279
<v Speaker 2>you want to make films that is a personal piece,

1459
01:10:33.640 --> 01:10:37.680
<v Speaker 2>a backyard a backyard film if you will, that's personal

1460
01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:39.640
<v Speaker 2>to you. Do that and make it for as cheap

1461
01:10:39.640 --> 01:10:43.279
<v Speaker 2>as possible and understand its art and hopefully you can

1462
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:46.560
<v Speaker 2>make maybe some money back maybe somewhere. Go on the festival, church,

1463
01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:49.119
<v Speaker 2>see what happens. You rolling the dice of that. But

1464
01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:53.199
<v Speaker 2>that's not a business. That's our, that's our And as.

1465
01:10:53.119 --> 01:10:54.960
<v Speaker 3>My brother, as my brother reminds, you want to be

1466
01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:58.720
<v Speaker 3>an artist, go paint in the park on Saturday. That's

1467
01:10:58.760 --> 01:10:59.199
<v Speaker 3>his motto.

1468
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Exactly exactly, go exactly. But if you want to make

1469
01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:05.680
<v Speaker 2>a business, and you want to do what you love

1470
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:09.319
<v Speaker 2>to do and do it consistently, for a decade or two.

1471
01:11:10.159 --> 01:11:12.239
<v Speaker 2>You have to think of commerce. You have to think

1472
01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:15.760
<v Speaker 2>of the business. If you don't, you're not It's not

1473
01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:17.760
<v Speaker 2>gonna make it. Man. And you know, that's one of

1474
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the reasons why most people don't even build careers in

1475
01:11:20.600 --> 01:11:24.079
<v Speaker 2>this business, because they have delusions of grandeur, delusions of

1476
01:11:24.600 --> 01:11:26.960
<v Speaker 2>what they think is supposed to happen. But they don't

1477
01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:29.239
<v Speaker 2>look at the reality of what is as opposed to

1478
01:11:29.279 --> 01:11:30.439
<v Speaker 2>what they want it to be.

1479
01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.399
<v Speaker 3>And here's another thing that I really try to remind

1480
01:11:33.439 --> 01:11:35.800
<v Speaker 3>a lot of up and covers about. Is this world

1481
01:11:35.800 --> 01:11:37.680
<v Speaker 3>we're living in now. You know, everybody talks about how

1482
01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:39.760
<v Speaker 3>why is time going so fast? Well, it's simple. It's

1483
01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:42.199
<v Speaker 3>because we can't keep up with the news. By the

1484
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:44.720
<v Speaker 3>time something it's like tragic. You look at this shooting

1485
01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:46.960
<v Speaker 3>in Buffalo, by the time it dust settled on not

1486
01:11:47.079 --> 01:11:49.159
<v Speaker 3>there was another one at a church here in Anaheim.

1487
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:52.439
<v Speaker 3>Then there was the big school shooting. There was five

1488
01:11:52.520 --> 01:11:56.479
<v Speaker 3>that following week. My point is, think about how fast

1489
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.720
<v Speaker 3>the news we move from from thing to thing to thing.

1490
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.920
<v Speaker 3>It's worse in film. When your buddy is putting up

1491
01:12:02.920 --> 01:12:05.560
<v Speaker 3>a trailer of their movie, their buddies are already looking

1492
01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:09.159
<v Speaker 3>at five other trailers and by the time you've set

1493
01:12:09.159 --> 01:12:13.239
<v Speaker 3>it out once, it's already buried and it's really hard

1494
01:12:13.279 --> 01:12:16.439
<v Speaker 3>to get the traction. You you, really, the traction is

1495
01:12:16.479 --> 01:12:19.000
<v Speaker 3>not something that we have anymore. It uhould be. You know,

1496
01:12:19.079 --> 01:12:21.439
<v Speaker 3>back up until five years ago, you put a trailer

1497
01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:24.359
<v Speaker 3>on Facebook or YouTube. Man, that thing got tons of hits.

1498
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:26.960
<v Speaker 3>People were emailing you about it for weeks or months.

1499
01:12:27.319 --> 01:12:29.520
<v Speaker 3>You get, you get you know, two or three hundred,

1500
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:31.680
<v Speaker 3>maybe a thousand likes in a couple of days. They

1501
01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:34.399
<v Speaker 3>can't see the movie. They're just buried with everything else.

1502
01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:36.199
<v Speaker 3>They come home and it's like, oh, honey, The Boys

1503
01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:38.640
<v Speaker 3>is back on, or Stranger Things is back on, or

1504
01:12:39.279 --> 01:12:42.159
<v Speaker 3>you know, you guys found a new tailor shared in

1505
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:45.720
<v Speaker 3>film or something. It's like you is indie filmmakers. You

1506
01:12:46.039 --> 01:12:48.680
<v Speaker 3>can't keep up with the machine that is spoon feeding

1507
01:12:48.720 --> 01:12:51.680
<v Speaker 3>the world with tens of millions of dollars on P

1508
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:54.479
<v Speaker 3>and A. So you have to think globally and where

1509
01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:55.600
<v Speaker 3>is your phone going to stick?

1510
01:12:56.760 --> 01:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly and then again back to the film. Entrepreneur

1511
01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:03.239
<v Speaker 2>method is focusing on a niche hellers. It helps with

1512
01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:06.279
<v Speaker 2>cutting through the noise if you can, if you can

1513
01:13:06.319 --> 01:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>attach to an emotional niche that you're into, then you

1514
01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:13.880
<v Speaker 2>have a much better fighting chance because there's you know,

1515
01:13:14.079 --> 01:13:16.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how many surf movies they are made

1516
01:13:16.279 --> 01:13:19.960
<v Speaker 2>every day, but or how many skateboarding movies are made

1517
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:23.760
<v Speaker 2>every day. It's not a huge genre, but it's a

1518
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:25.960
<v Speaker 2>huge market and there's a lot of people who are

1519
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>looking for those, you know. I remember when Gleaning the

1520
01:13:28.680 --> 01:13:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Cube came out, Remember Gleaning the Cube back of the eighties,

1521
01:13:32.399 --> 01:13:34.399
<v Speaker 2>like late eighties, I think it was eighty nine. Was

1522
01:13:34.479 --> 01:13:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Christian Slater or rad with the BMX bike movie. This

1523
01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:41.520
<v Speaker 2>guy re released.

1524
01:13:41.239 --> 01:13:43.800
<v Speaker 3>Sower Takes All for Motocross in the eighties. That's a

1525
01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:46.680
<v Speaker 3>hubid film that's unwatchable.

1526
01:13:46.720 --> 01:13:51.359
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly. But those movies focused on a niche audience,

1527
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:53.439
<v Speaker 2>and everybody was like, oh my god, did you see

1528
01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:56.439
<v Speaker 2>Gleaning the Cube? It's a skateboarding movie? Or that you

1529
01:13:56.479 --> 01:13:59.600
<v Speaker 2>can you can make noise with an independent film with

1530
01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:03.439
<v Speaker 2>no bud and even no marketing money. In a niche,

1531
01:14:03.479 --> 01:14:05.640
<v Speaker 2>you have a chance, you have a fighting chance to

1532
01:14:05.680 --> 01:14:06.399
<v Speaker 2>cut through the noise.

1533
01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, especially in a niche like you're talking about, like

1534
01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:12.600
<v Speaker 3>you imagine getting on all the Facebook skateboarding BMX Facebook

1535
01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:15.800
<v Speaker 3>groups yeah. I mean, like, I'm a big motocross guy.

1536
01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:18.560
<v Speaker 3>You know, it was my life for thirty forty years.

1537
01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:21.000
<v Speaker 3>And that's like I belong to these these little pages

1538
01:14:21.039 --> 01:14:24.880
<v Speaker 3>on Facebook and there's like three hundred thousand members and

1539
01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:27.199
<v Speaker 3>that's one of twelve that I'm a member of. And

1540
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:30.000
<v Speaker 3>then you go there's twenty thousand, ere one hundred thousand era.

1541
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:33.159
<v Speaker 3>Can you imagine if you did a little niche movie

1542
01:14:33.199 --> 01:14:36.720
<v Speaker 3>for skateboarder BMX and that group got behind it, what

1543
01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:39.039
<v Speaker 3>damage you can do? You gotta think that's Burke. I mean,

1544
01:14:39.039 --> 01:14:39.800
<v Speaker 3>that's how you have this thing.

1545
01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:42.319
<v Speaker 2>But that's how then I've used multiple examples of that

1546
01:14:42.399 --> 01:14:44.840
<v Speaker 2>in my book because it's exactly how you do it.

1547
01:14:44.840 --> 01:14:48.119
<v Speaker 2>It's the only it's the only weapon we have as

1548
01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:52.840
<v Speaker 2>independent filmmakers to really compete against the big boys, because

1549
01:14:52.239 --> 01:14:54.479
<v Speaker 2>I use the example all the time. There was a

1550
01:14:54.520 --> 01:14:58.239
<v Speaker 2>documentary about vegan athletes that I saw, the one with

1551
01:14:58.279 --> 01:15:01.399
<v Speaker 2>Schwartzenegger's and yeah, it was a game, Game changes right,

1552
01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:04.239
<v Speaker 2>and I was dying to see it. And no matter

1553
01:15:04.520 --> 01:15:10.119
<v Speaker 2>what was around any big Hollywood movie, any billions of

1554
01:15:10.159 --> 01:15:13.439
<v Speaker 2>dollars that they spend in advertising, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1555
01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:17.000
<v Speaker 2>that's nice. I want to see this. It cut through

1556
01:15:17.560 --> 01:15:19.600
<v Speaker 2>all marketing. I'll get to your billions, I'll get to

1557
01:15:19.640 --> 01:15:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the next of the Bond film.

1558
01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:21.880
<v Speaker 3>I need to see this film.

1559
01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:24.039
<v Speaker 2>This is the first on my list because I had

1560
01:15:24.079 --> 01:15:27.560
<v Speaker 2>an emotional attachment to see that. I wanted to see that.

1561
01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>So if you could do that as a filmmakers, it's

1562
01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:31.359
<v Speaker 2>a lot easier.

1563
01:15:32.279 --> 01:15:33.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's smart.

1564
01:15:34.039 --> 01:15:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Now I'm gonna ask you a few questions, sir, I

1565
01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:39.680
<v Speaker 2>asked all of my guests, Oh, what advice would you

1566
01:15:39.680 --> 01:15:42.520
<v Speaker 2>give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today.

1567
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:45.760
<v Speaker 3>My advice to filmmakers trying to break into the business

1568
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:54.000
<v Speaker 3>today is first, make, nurture, harvest relationships, whether you're meeting

1569
01:15:54.000 --> 01:15:55.960
<v Speaker 3>a sound guy on a shoot or you're meeting a

1570
01:15:56.000 --> 01:15:58.279
<v Speaker 3>hair and makeup girl on a shoot. My film family

1571
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:01.479
<v Speaker 3>runs longer than twenty five thirty years with a lot

1572
01:16:01.479 --> 01:16:04.319
<v Speaker 3>of us, and those are because of relationships that were made.

1573
01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:06.720
<v Speaker 3>And I say that, are my hair and makeup team

1574
01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:09.920
<v Speaker 3>or my sound guy writing the checks to finance my movies? No,

1575
01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:11.920
<v Speaker 3>but they'd got my back and I couldn't do it

1576
01:16:11.920 --> 01:16:14.640
<v Speaker 3>without them. So I think the most important thing is

1577
01:16:14.800 --> 01:16:17.399
<v Speaker 3>besides shooting and screwing a lot of the things up

1578
01:16:17.479 --> 01:16:22.920
<v Speaker 3>and making yourself better. Relationships for me are almost number one.

1579
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:26.640
<v Speaker 2>What did you learn from your biggest failure?

1580
01:16:28.119 --> 01:16:31.239
<v Speaker 3>What I learned from my biggest failure was you have

1581
01:16:31.279 --> 01:16:33.279
<v Speaker 3>to keep up with the times. I think our biggest

1582
01:16:33.279 --> 01:16:36.840
<v Speaker 3>financial failure was a film that never got out of

1583
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:39.399
<v Speaker 3>the gate when everybody was going to high depth in

1584
01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:43.560
<v Speaker 3>video listening to certain decision makers that were adamant about

1585
01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:47.000
<v Speaker 3>shooting on film. It raised the price of the film

1586
01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:49.399
<v Speaker 3>for hundred thousand dollars more than it should have been,

1587
01:16:49.880 --> 01:16:52.640
<v Speaker 3>which put us more in the whole and it was

1588
01:16:53.199 --> 01:16:55.399
<v Speaker 3>That's what I learned is that you were never going

1589
01:16:55.439 --> 01:16:57.239
<v Speaker 3>to crawl away out and that was kind of a

1590
01:16:57.319 --> 01:17:02.119
<v Speaker 3>thing in Boogie Nights, if you remember, with p videotape

1591
01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:04.640
<v Speaker 3>Man videotape. And I've known a lot of distributors over

1592
01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:07.520
<v Speaker 3>the years that were always behind the ball when it

1593
01:17:07.560 --> 01:17:10.199
<v Speaker 3>went from going from film to video video to dv

1594
01:17:10.600 --> 01:17:12.439
<v Speaker 3>DVD to Blu ray. And that was the one thing

1595
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:14.439
<v Speaker 3>I learned is this really good FELM never saw the

1596
01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:16.800
<v Speaker 3>light of a day because it was just buried in

1597
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:20.079
<v Speaker 3>financial woe because they just they made and I was

1598
01:17:20.159 --> 01:17:22.039
<v Speaker 3>part of the above the line decisions on that, and

1599
01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:23.119
<v Speaker 3>I should have fought harder.

1600
01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:26.359
<v Speaker 2>What is the lesson that to keep the longest to learn,

1601
01:17:26.399 --> 01:17:28.119
<v Speaker 2>whether in the film industry or in life.

1602
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:35.159
<v Speaker 3>If you want loyalty, you get a dog. I mean

1603
01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:37.399
<v Speaker 3>it's true when you're when you're when you're hot, you're

1604
01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:39.640
<v Speaker 3>hot when you're not. You know, know, your phone does spring.

1605
01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:44.720
<v Speaker 3>And the people that you would consider, you know, your

1606
01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:48.039
<v Speaker 3>brothers at arms or your your you know, the people

1607
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:50.399
<v Speaker 3>are the foxhole. It's it's loyalty in this industry. I

1608
01:17:50.399 --> 01:17:52.600
<v Speaker 3>don't think it's very very, very rare.

1609
01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:55.319
<v Speaker 2>And it's it's tough. It's tough.

1610
01:17:55.560 --> 01:17:56.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So I mean that's that's just it.

1611
01:17:57.000 --> 01:17:57.399
<v Speaker 2>Instance.

1612
01:17:57.439 --> 01:18:01.159
<v Speaker 3>You know, I get attached to people a little more

1613
01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:05.159
<v Speaker 3>than I should emotionally because I believe I find somebody

1614
01:18:05.159 --> 01:18:07.239
<v Speaker 3>of like mind. And and then again I go back

1615
01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:08.600
<v Speaker 3>to you want loyalty, you get a dog.

1616
01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:12.239
<v Speaker 2>You, sir, are a nice guy who has been beaten

1617
01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:14.720
<v Speaker 2>up by the business that had shrapnel along the way.

1618
01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:18.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming, I'm assuming thirty years ago you were much

1619
01:18:18.520 --> 01:18:20.279
<v Speaker 2>nicer and less cynical than you are now.

1620
01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:24.359
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I mean I was definitely less cynical.

1621
01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:27.520
<v Speaker 3>Sure at the stars, the.

1622
01:18:27.520 --> 01:18:29.319
<v Speaker 2>Stars were still in the eye. The sparkle was still

1623
01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:29.720
<v Speaker 2>in the eye.

1624
01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:32.880
<v Speaker 3>I still had I was still youthful exuberance and excitement.

1625
01:18:33.079 --> 01:18:35.960
<v Speaker 3>And like the late great Dicky Fox, I clap my

1626
01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:40.479
<v Speaker 3>hands and I say, it's gonna be a great day day. Ok,

1627
01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:41.399
<v Speaker 3>here we go again.

1628
01:18:43.199 --> 01:18:46.039
<v Speaker 2>And three of your favorite films of all time, the

1629
01:18:46.640 --> 01:18:51.920
<v Speaker 2>films that impacted my life the most Sideways.

1630
01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:55.920
<v Speaker 3>I love that film. But but growing up in Jerry Maguire.

1631
01:18:56.159 --> 01:18:58.520
<v Speaker 3>But growing up it was the Black Stallion, it was

1632
01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:01.640
<v Speaker 3>Cherry's and it was on Golden Pond. Those are films

1633
01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:03.720
<v Speaker 3>that my father showed me when I was about eight

1634
01:19:03.800 --> 01:19:06.319
<v Speaker 3>or nine years old that made me fall in love

1635
01:19:06.359 --> 01:19:07.399
<v Speaker 3>with the idea of filmmaking.

1636
01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:08.960
<v Speaker 2>And there you go?

1637
01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:11.520
<v Speaker 3>And where is why they still play it today?

1638
01:19:11.920 --> 01:19:15.439
<v Speaker 2>And where can people find a double threat and find

1639
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.840
<v Speaker 2>out more about you and what you're doing?

1640
01:19:16.880 --> 01:19:20.359
<v Speaker 3>Sir, oh bless you well? Double Threat is available on

1641
01:19:20.399 --> 01:19:24.479
<v Speaker 3>Amazon Prime. But news is like fifteen or twenty different platforms,

1642
01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:26.239
<v Speaker 3>and I'm sorry to say, I don't know off the

1643
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:28.760
<v Speaker 3>top of my tongue. They're easy to find. It's on Xbox,

1644
01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:30.159
<v Speaker 3>It's on you know, Google.

1645
01:19:29.880 --> 01:19:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Play double just at double threatned Google and double for.

1646
01:19:33.039 --> 01:19:36.760
<v Speaker 3>Storry, Daniel c Ryan, Donald of Vieri, Matthew Lawrence directed

1647
01:19:36.760 --> 01:19:40.119
<v Speaker 3>by yours truly you'll find it. Yeah, you could go

1648
01:19:40.159 --> 01:19:42.520
<v Speaker 3>to what you Don't Learn in fell School dot com.

1649
01:19:42.520 --> 01:19:44.600
<v Speaker 3>That's the website for my book, which has a lot

1650
01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:46.600
<v Speaker 3>of information if you if you care and you want

1651
01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:49.159
<v Speaker 3>to go to my website, it's Shane'sfamily dot Net. It'll

1652
01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:52.600
<v Speaker 3>take you wherever you need to go. And that's it.

1653
01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:55.439
<v Speaker 3>That's how you find me, and that's what I'm up to.

1654
01:19:56.119 --> 01:19:58.720
<v Speaker 2>And if you guys want to check out his book

1655
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:03.359
<v Speaker 2>on audiobook, yes, always. You could always head over to

1656
01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:06.479
<v Speaker 2>Indie film Hustle dot com and and do a search

1657
01:20:06.520 --> 01:20:08.920
<v Speaker 2>there for it, or go to audible and it's it's

1658
01:20:08.960 --> 01:20:12.199
<v Speaker 2>on audible right and it's and it's it's a bestseller.

1659
01:20:12.279 --> 01:20:14.600
<v Speaker 2>People love it and it's it's good. And of course

1660
01:20:14.600 --> 01:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>if you want to check out Rise of the Film Entrepreneur,

1661
01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:19.159
<v Speaker 2>it's not too far either. You can check those out.

1662
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:21.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a good double book. If you get both those books,

1663
01:20:21.319 --> 01:20:22.479
<v Speaker 2>you're going to be in good shape. Sir.

1664
01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:24.359
<v Speaker 3>I'm just giving great shit. You were gonna be in

1665
01:20:24.600 --> 01:20:25.920
<v Speaker 3>great shape.

1666
01:20:25.640 --> 01:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>You get both those books, those are going to be

1667
01:20:28.239 --> 01:20:31.439
<v Speaker 2>that's a film school right in itself, sir uh say, man,

1668
01:20:31.479 --> 01:20:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I think so much for coming on the show, but

1669
01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:34.680
<v Speaker 2>it's always a good talking to you man, and continue

1670
01:20:34.680 --> 01:20:37.079
<v Speaker 2>success and keep keep that hustle going.

1671
01:20:37.119 --> 01:20:40.119
<v Speaker 3>Brother, Hey Alex, thanks for having me, Thanks everybody for

1672
01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:44.600
<v Speaker 3>check it out, and just just keep filming. Just keep filming, guys,

1673
01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:47.479
<v Speaker 3>it'll it'll. Eventually, you'll find your way, you'll find your voice.

1674
01:20:47.560 --> 01:20:49.199
<v Speaker 3>Just keep doing what you do. You'll get there.

1675
01:20:49.800 --> 01:20:52.199
<v Speaker 2>I want to thank Shane so much for coming on

1676
01:20:52.279 --> 01:20:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the show and dropping his knowledge bombs on the Tribe today.

1677
01:20:55.680 --> 01:20:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much, Shane. If you want to get

1678
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:00.640
<v Speaker 2>links to anything we spoke about in this episode, including

1679
01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:05.399
<v Speaker 2>how to access his amazing webinars on ifh Academy, all

1680
01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:08.199
<v Speaker 2>you need to do is head over to Bulletproof Screenwriting

1681
01:21:08.359 --> 01:21:11.359
<v Speaker 2>dot tv Forward slash three eighty one. Thank you so

1682
01:21:11.439 --> 01:21:13.920
<v Speaker 2>much for listening to guys as always, keep on writing

1683
01:21:14.079 --> 01:21:15.920
<v Speaker 2>no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.

1684
01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting

1685
01:21:21.199 --> 01:21:21.760
<v Speaker 1>dot tv.