Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right podcast.
Very excited today because Days and I have been doing
a lot of talking about the Tate brothers and how much.
Speaker 2: We loathe them.
Speaker 1: And so today we have Danny Pincher with us, who
is the SVP and director of the law Center for
the National Center on Sexual Exploitation and is also a
lawyer for Jane Doe, who is one of who is
a person that has filed a countersuit against the Tate
brothers after they, you know, alleged that she was did
some things wrong with the Romanian rape cases. And so,
for those of us who are not totally up to
speed with how this case came about, your involvement in
it and where it stands today, could you give.
Speaker 3: Us some background?
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely so. Jane Doe, our client is an American
citizen who met Tristan Tate in Miami. He invited her
to come to Romania. You know, she thought this is
the beginning of an exciting, romantic, really relationship. She was
very young, actually not even twenty one when she first
met him, and then twenty one when she you know,
went to Romania. And the reality is pretty quickly almost
immediately when she got there, she got the sense that
things were not right. This is you know, she thought,
you know, this super romantic, exciting, you know guy was
going to show her all around Europe, like that's what
they talked about, seeing these sites, these artistic these museums,
these shows. You know, she's a musician, she's going to
play her music. But she was basically stuck in a
house with these other women who most of them didn't
speak English. He wasn't even around. He was like busy,
you know, like, wasn't the point for us to have
this romantic getaway. He's off who knows where most of
the time, and she's just like sitting in this house
with these women, and she's realizing they're all doing webcam
so she's seeing you know, and I've got to keep
things pretty general because that remained criminal case is ongoing
and so that's all confidential information. But she was seeing
signs that she felt or red flags, and so she texts,
you know, her family back home. It says, you know,
I think this was a mistake. I'm gonna get out
of your arm's gonna sneak out, and then you know,
we'll go from there. But like any parent and friend,
because she was speaking with her parents and also a
friend who had actually warned her not to go in
the first place. And she was like, you're right, well,
he was a marine, and so like any friend and
like her parents, felt, you're not going to just okay.
I hope you're able to sneak out of this dangerous
situation in Romania. You know. He was like, I am
a United States Marine and I am mandated. I have
been trained to report human trafficking where I think it's occurring.
So he called the US embassy, and the US embassy
you know, alerted Romanian authorities and raided the Tates properties
and rest her. So she was taken into custody, you know,
complied as she had an obligation to do with Romania
authorities of what she thought was going on, right her opinion,
what she observed, and from there, Romania continued to investigate
Tape Brothers and launched an investigation and criminal investigation into
them that you know, the first case spans seven victims.
They now have a second investigation that includes over thirty victims.
But the Tape Brothers are hell bent on blaming Jane
Doe for this situation. They have twisted the facts. They
make wild claims that she was paid to come to
Romania to make false accusations, whereas she did not walk
into a police station make accusations. She planned on sneaking out,
she begged her parents and her friend not to report
they did anyway, and she complied with authorities when taken
in the custody in a foreign country. I don't know
that she had a choice to do that. She was
obligated to do that, and for that they have relentless
harassed her, including suing her in multiple different cases. She's
trying to defend three different lawsuits in America for this.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, you know, just reading about these guys
because they have become sort of I don't know, it's
like a mainstay, but people in conservative circles talk about them,
which is gross. But yeah, they how did these guys
make their money? They make it what through webcam?
Speaker 4: Well, by their own statements. So for years they went
on podcasts and the only reason they had anything to
talk about was to talk about the webcam business. I
mean they've said many times, you know, we are millionaires
because of webcam. They brag about how they trick these
girls into giving them money, brag about all the money
that they get from scamming these guys. That that's another thing,
you know. I think conservative media likes that the Tape
Brothers say some good and true things about masculinity and
they just ignore the rest. Well, Tape Brothers have bragged
about making fools out of desperate and lonely men. I
mean they've said that many times. They laugh about there's
one podcast that's still out there with the NLK Brothers
wherever those guys are where he is like bragging about
I took this guy's house, I took his this, you know,
we told him were she was going to meet the girl,
but then I staved this whole fight. So then she
doesn't come and he thinks it's his fault. But then
he'll be back and he's and the guys even said, well,
don't you feel kind of bad? He's like, no, I
don't feel bad. Like basically they're idiots. So like, he's
a scammer from start to finish. She scammed these women
into something they didn't know what they were getting involved in.
He scans the men on the other end of the webcam,
and I think he's scammed the public, he's scammed conservative media.
I don't think he has conservative values. I don't even
think you can call his values traditional, even because he
has disclaimed marriage and says he will never get married.
So I don't just because he lauds some qualities of
masculine they are considered traditional. I don't think you could
even say that he has traditional Judaeo Christian values, you know.
I mean, he proclaims to be follower of Islam, but
even even the traditions of that faith, I don't believe
his actions or statements are alignment with So I think
it's time to drop, to drop him as a conservative
influencer in my opinion, for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean with the I know, you know a lot
of the Romanian case, it's ongoing, it's confidential and all that,
but I think for people like me who continue to see,
you know, he Andrew Tate posts nonsense every day, just obnoxious, disgusting, gross,
misogynistic nonsense, and I he's just walking around and it's
like all.
Speaker 2: The this Romanian case.
Speaker 1: I know that they were on house arrest for a
while and then suddenly they're just out in the world
doing whatever.
Speaker 2: So at what point are we going.
Speaker 4: To see some justice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like and is it and just get
away with everything?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 5: And is it just that this Jane Doe or are
there other plaintiffs? Like are there other Yeah?
Speaker 4: And I think so this confusion is exactly the Tape
Brothers capitalized, and they have from the beginning. So there's
a few things. One. Romania does not hold prisoners, even
charged with serious crimes like sex trafficking, in like preventative custody,
like in jail under except for very very very serious
like this person is like a violent murderer. They basically
the way that their system coming out of communism, they're
very kind of the system is built to be shrewd
and skeptical of holding people. So they were only in
preventive custody for three months, which even Arenia standards pretty serious.
Shows how serious the crimes were. But then the way
the process is, every thirty days the prosecution have to
justify new facts as to why they would need to
be held, So it's almost impossible to hold them in
custody while the case is pending. But the Tape Brothers
kind of spend the American and UK audiences. You know,
we're used to the fact that like p Diddy, for example,
was in custody the entire time, So they spend that
expectation to be some sort of sign that this was
not serious in Romania, when that just was not true.
So there's been some of that this entire time. And
just to give you a procedural background the case, so
there's two investigations. One involves Jane Doe and six other
women named as victims. Two of the women named as
victims are still cooperating with the Tape Brothers and have
disclaimed to be in victims. So the Tates love to
show videos of those women and say there are no
victims and are victims because two of the women say
they're not, but four other women are and have maintained
that they are and that they were harmed by the
Tape Brothers. So there's some misinformation confusion that they play
off of. Now the case, that first case went all
the way up through so those through the pre trial stages.
Everyone acted like it took a long time. It didn't.
I mean even in the United States, a federal prosecution
takes years, and it took about a year and a
half to go from the very beginning to ready for
trial went through that whole pre trial stage where like
the Tape Brothers, as is the right challenging every little thing.
I mean that that is the right to do. But
that's what takes so long. And the Romanian system also
allows for judicial appeal of every single decision, so that
would not happen here. Here you have your trial judge
and the defense doesn't get to appeal anything until the end.
There are some exceptions, but generally speaking, if you have
issues with the court's orders during that time, you got
to wait to the end to appeal them. But in
the Romanian system you can appeal as you go, which
causes further delay. Right, you have to wait for ever.
You have to wait for an appeals court before you
can even move to the next stage. But despite all that,
it progressed all the way through the trial court. Trial.
Jed said it was ready for trial, and they appealed that,
and the appeals court then found that there were some
issues that honestly were probably right. Two of the more
obvious ones were when the tables were first taken into custody,
they were not informed that they were suspects, right that
they were criminally implicated. They were basically told they were
just witnesses at that point, which violated the rights. I
think that's true. So, uh, the prosecutor basically the judge
said you need to go back and retake their statements
after having informed them that they are suspects essentially. So
you know, the Tates again like to say this case
was thrown out because of lack of evidence. But there
was no evidence that was excluded except for certain statements
for issues like the defense being present for the victim
statements and the defense being notified of the rights. So
the prosecutor just had to retake those statements and then
refile the indictment. So they're in the process of doing that,
as my understanding, But it's delay. It's just delay that
the Tae brothers like to say case is over and
just quickly I'll say, there is a second investigation that
includes over thirty victims, as I mentioned, and includes two
alleged minor victims.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, so how old when you say
minor victims?
Speaker 4: How old one was fifteen and the other I believe seventeen.
Oh my god.
Speaker 5: So do you think they're trying to avoid due process?
Like they just don't want that?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think they're going to do everything they
can to just disrupt the case entirely. I mean, they
want this case to fall apart. There they love to say,
take me to court, I can't wait. But you can
see through the actions of their lawyers that they've done
everything they can to disrupt the case. I think the
misinformation does that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because it spans three countries, right, it's like yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, and it's these are different victims. So the Tape
brothers lived although they are American citizens, they grew up
mostly in the UK and then moved to Romania in
like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, So the UK victims are
from their time living in the UK. So pre twenty sixteen,
there was first three or four women that went to
the police when they were when the Tapos were still
living in the UK, and all alleged you know, violent assaults,
sexual assaults, rape, strangulation. They have voice membos of Andrew
Tates saying I love raping you, for example, and text
messages saying, oh get over it. You know I choked
you a little bit. So what But for whatever reason,
the UK and the prosecution, the law enforcement recommended prosecution
and they sent it to the prosecutors, and the Crown
Prosecution Service declined to prosecute, basically saying like, we just
don't think we'll get a conviction and that's discretionary. That
happens here too, and that happens. I just like to
say that that happens all the time with sexual assault
cases because the prosecutor knows, like the travesty that happens
with the Diddy trial, that even if they have evidence
that technically meets the burden, jurors can be influenced by
things like the victims not perfect, or the victim was
in a relationship with this person, or the victim was
maybe a webcam model for example. The jury is gonna
not be influenced by those things in the negative way,
and all the prosecutor wants is a clean conviction. So
we see this all the time, that prosecutors won't take
sexual assault cases with strong evidence because of issues like that.
And so that looks like that's what happened. So those
women are suing civilly, but separate and apart from those victims,
there are other UK victims who have now come forward
to the police and the bed for Sure Police Department
in the UK is investigating and prosecuting the Tate brothers
for those other victims in the UK, unrelated to the
for women I just talked about, and they have an
extradition order from Romania. So basically in deference to Romania,
once the Romanian prosecution is ended, whether they drop it
or prosecute fully and the Tate Brothers are in jail
or prosecuting Filly and shape Billers are acquitted, they have
to wait until that process plays out. But then Romania
has already agreed, like a Romanian court has said we
will extradite them upon completion of this process, so that
is still the status quo. My god, it's like, there's.
Speaker 5: So much going on with these guys, and then the
public opinion of them is. It's so weird because we
have you know, we do a show every single day
and we have our comments section that we're like reading
through every day, and we're obviously conservative, you know, with
their you can tell with their name and everything, and
and you know, we'll read the comments if we start
talking about these jack holes and the people. It's mixed, right,
which drives us both. I'll speak for Miriam too. It
drives us both insane because of people like the Canvases
and the Tuckers and other people in the conservative you know,
realm who have profiled these guys and made them I
don't I don't even know why they've given them a platform,
but they have, and I don't neither one of us
really understands it. But I think that there is like
they don't know all of these facts. I know what's
going on, and I and I think, I mean, maybe
you can correct me if I'm wrong, But I would
imagine that they've blonde on to some of these conservative
influencers because it makes them appear better in the public forum.
Speaker 4: Exactly. That's intentional, in my opinion, that's completely calculated. If
you you look at like the Tate brother statements in
the past, you can follow an evolution where they were
they didn't even claim to be conservative, and they even
claim to have some of the values they have. You
also hear them say things about networking and getting people
in your circle, and and also how easily people are fooled.
Talks about that all the time. You can lie to
people so easily, give them what they want, and they'll
you know, believe anything you say. There's many, many such
statements that show that this is a playbook. This is
a calculated move to control the narrative. And I think
what's going on is and you guys kind of touched
on that. You know, Andrew Tate's constantly posting these, you know,
things that are upset or vile or whatever. That's intentional.
He wants to post something that is controversial because it
gets the most views. So it's intentionally rage baby. It's
intentionally meant to be divisive and eye catching so that
it gets views. And if you look at his falling
on X, he must be one of the have the
largest followings. I mean on X even a hundred following
of one hundred thousand is a big following. He has
I think close to ten million, So they have an
unbelievable following that is very attractive I think to people
like Teche Canvas.
Speaker 1: Well, and because Tucker and Kanvas's audiences are so huge
and they and and those two influencers in particular, and
Benny Johnson's another one that's platformed in right. I mean,
they have they have made they have raised his profile
in conservative circles to the extent that even this past weekend,
and it was a woman on Twitter who I or
X or whatever who I fought with because I had
retweeted some thing of Andrew Tates that was just some
disgusting thing that he called women puppies essentially they'll do
anything you want or something like that, and I and
I just had made the comment I will never understand
the men who admire this guy or the women who
want to be with him for any reason, right, And
a woman fought with me about that because she said,
you're just buying into the media created narrative about him.
And I'm like, look, I'm literally quoting him. I'm literally
quoting him. I don't have to listen to anybody else's
opinion of him.
Speaker 2: I just have to listen to him.
Speaker 5: It is disgusting, so disgusting, and it's all there, like
it's all there. You can see that Stuffie says and
that he does. And then they they it's like they
just that it. They have been masters at crafting mass
or narrative.
Speaker 3: It's gross. It's just so gross.
Speaker 4: Yes, they have identified and I think, you know, this
is kind of like, what is propaganda in this, Danny?
What do we need to do as the public to
be critical of the new media as we were of
the old media. Because the Tape brothers have identified an
area where people are disgruntled and people are upset, and
they're upset at the idea that people would be silenced
for views and that people would be targeted for views,
and so they have tapped into that to then abuse
it and twist it in a really gross way. So
they have said so publicly and so often, so repeatedly,
that they are victims of being targeted for their views
on traditional masculinity, which I even don't think that's true,
but let's say it is that they have been targeted.
You know, they're tapping into people being upset that the
president was targeted with law fair. So they've targeted into
that and aligned themselves and paralleled themselves and done it
in such an exhaustive way because they have a big
following that they can get to pair it. So they've
gotten to this place where the public consciousness, you just
know this narrative that the tapes are targeted for their
speech and it's because of traditional masculinity, which is another
thing conserves are upset about that there's been an oversuppression
and over attack of mass traditional mask of values. So
they've tapped into that. I am a victim of censorship
for traditional mask of values and conservatives, and really just
a lot of general people are so triggered by that
and emotionally invested in that as a movement that they
don't realize that people can be so so macivaliant in
the sense that they will literally lie about something you
believe in to get your support. You know, most people
don't do that, and you don't tend to believe anyone
would do that, so you're not looking out for that.
But the truth is he has completely co opted that
narrative to suit his purposes and to such a degree
that now he can say anything you can nearly spit
in your eye, and you will ignore it because you
believe that if you criticize it, that's playing in to
the attack and the suppression of his speech and the
attack of masking values. And so he's insulated himself and
to an incredible degree in that regard.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and even when he laughs in your face about
doing it, Yeah, they still are like, Oh, it's fine,
it's totally fine. It's unreal to me. It's just unreal in.
Speaker 2: Your I mean, in your line of work.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've come across like a zillion vial and
shocking and horrible story people which I can't even begin
to imagine. But was there anything in your work with
Jane Doe or any of the other victims, or just
you know, looking into the Tape Brothers as a whole,
was there anything that like really had your jaw on
the floor that was just that was surprising even to you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'm so glad you asked me that because
the Tape Brothers methods of what I believe is sex
trafficking is very common. We see it all the time,
which is preying on vulnerable women. They're already in a
volnable position, right, there's sort of an a miss out there,
right that, like you can only be a victim if
you are at this you know, sweet naive, perfect child
that was snatched at your home. Well, the truth is
like a lot of really troubled women and young girls
who were coming out of the foster care system with
a rap sheet are the because they have all these
issues and they're so desperately seeking love. Right, So he
is targeting women who are vulnerable and who have baggage.
They did this, and like I said, there's there's thirty
alleged victims in Romania. So this was systematic, went on
for years, and it was a very aggressive recruitment. They
were recruiting many, many women. But the method by which
they did it primarily was to sweep these women off
their feet, love, bondb them, make them feel special in
a way that no one in their life has in
cleaning their family, and then manipulate them into performing pornography,
oftentimes even though they never did that before. Some of
them women hadn't, some hadn't and really convinced them even
they didn't want to. Upon resistance, they would beg not
to and they'd say, come on, this is we got
to live the dream, like if you really love me.
And some of the things he would do is he
would say this is some of the stuff I found
on shocking. Is he would say, you know what, this
isn't even about you doing the pornography. I want to
see that you obey me. You need to obey me
because that's what a real woman does for a man.
And you say you want traditional family like you would
use that. You say you're a you say you're this
you want you need to obey your husband, And now
I just need to see that you'll obey me. That's
the kind of thing he would say, and he would
get this woe to do it and then give all
the money to him because it was for them, and
so they didn't really realize they were being scanned because
they're thinking of it like, well, my husband's not going
to misuse my money. Of course, he was never thinking
about this as a partnership. He never even cohabitated with them,
and you know what, puts money directly in his bank
account and they'd have to beg him for any money.
And so that's very common sort of that scheme, but
it's also very hard for people to understand. People expect, unfortunately,
sex trapping to involve children snash off the street. They
expect really really serious violence. I think that was a
confusion with P Diddy, although there was sporadic violences also
like loving language. So people are confused. But then the
Tape brothers admit to using this strategy explicitly and that
this was all intentional by design. That's what shocked me
the most. I was like, he's describing I mean, he
would publicly describe Vibe buying the book and learning pimping
techniques he's like pimping. Can is a famous street pimp,
means he he pimped women on the streets for prostitution.
Law enforcement uses his book in training law enforcement. He's
well known criminal pimp, and the Tape Brothers routinely talk
about him as an inspiration, as their mentor. Essentially, he
even mentioned it to kandas he mentioned it to Kansas,
Trint Tristan quotes him to Kansas and Owens and she
just sort of like ignores that, and he admits that,
like this is the strategy to convince women to fall
in love with them so we could take all their money.
You know, I think if we had admissions like that,
and p didty, I think he was doing the same thing,
but he didn't admit it. So that's why I find
so shocking that he, you know, was very cruel in
my opinion, in his using this system, and then he's
very open about it. Yeah, people are still confused.
Speaker 3: He prayed, He prayed on the most vulnerable.
Speaker 5: He prayed on vulnerable people and bragged about it.
Speaker 3: That's just so disgusting.
Speaker 1: And then and then packaged his methods in courses made
billions of dollars.
Speaker 3: So other men could do it.
Speaker 2: So it's so disgusting.
Speaker 1: Has he or have either of the brothers been threatening
in any way to you, Like, have they come after
you because of.
Speaker 4: Question in this Well, I've been sued by you know,
by them. Well it's a third party represented by their
same attorneys, So I mean I would argue that's all
part of the intimidation process. But you know, and our
organization when we first started this case got flooded with
like so vile, like pornographic emails, and our systems seriously, yeah,
like stick stuff would be like these long, sick, disturbing narratives,
get like hundreds of them, and at first we're like,
what is this? And then I realized this is like
a tage strategy. So I think it was likely his
followers doing that, you know, maybe at his direction, maybe
on their own, I don't know, but yeah, so various.
I mean, it could be worse. I'm more concerned about
my client, who's I was going to say, harassed online
and threatens, death threats, people constantly trying to find her.
She's been living you know this. She was first rescued
in twenty twenty two. She's been living and hiding since then,
and she and it's a state of hyper visulance. It's
you know, she's it's awful, especially how long agoes going on.
She's like, I feel I can't get a job, I
can't like put my name on at least, like they'll
google me and they'll see all this nasty stuff. And
you know, she's just constantly looking over her shoulder and
you know, and you know, she's expressed like it's not
even just I know they can't be everywhere to try
and murder me themselves, but they have this vehement fothing
at the mouth following and they could be anywhere anytime,
and they're online folks who were like always docks and people.
They're trying to find me, you know, and it's just awful, awful.
Speaker 5: So her life has been on hold for three years. Yeah,
and when do you actually go to trial again? When
does that happen?
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see the civil case has you know, we
want to take deference to that criminal case. We would
like to. In my view, and I this is just
my opinion, the civil cases were meant only to disrupt
or dissuade Jane Doe from participating in the criminal cases.
You know, they're meant as a part of this disruption
strategy to stop these prosecutions. In my opinion, so I
want the prosecutions to play out first, as they should,
and so you know, we've been trying to do what
we can to you know, hold the civil case till
that happens, stay until the investigations play out, but you
know we'll see first. I think the whole thing should
have been dismissed in the first instance. Of course, I
think she had a First Amendment right to talk to
the police. I think it's obvious that this is a
slap suit to harass her for her speech and that
likely in the end to have immunity for whatever she
said to law enforcement. So I think it was frivolous
from the get go when the court was not inclined
to dismiss it and wanted to at least give them
their shot. You know, we countersuit as we believe is
our right, but we're just at the beginning of the
discovery phase, so this will take some time. We don't
we have to. We don't even have like a trial
date set. Like what we have now is is old
and has to be redone. And like I said, I
I believe it should be stayed in enery case until
the prosecution's place in these various jurisdictions, but at least
where she gave statements in Romania, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: It just seems so unfair because her life is on
hold and then they're out there just being all their
new freaking a right, It's just so unfair.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, obviously we wish you all the success
in the world as you move forward with Jane Doe,
and we wish her all the best too.
Speaker 2: And you know, we're we're following this.
Speaker 1: We we try all the time to help our audience
understand that these are not good people, that that broken
clocks are right twice a day. Just because they say
something that you resonate with in one moment does not
discount the fact that they are disgusting.
Speaker 2: Assholes the rest of the time. And so hopefully are
keeping we.
Speaker 5: Will we will, we will keep doing it, we assolutely.
Speaker 4: It does make a difference. And you know, there's like
Nathan Livingstone who does like those compilations. I mean, he
was able to get the videos out that the tablers
have out there. Anyone could find what they want, but
they don't see them, and he was able to put
them in a in a you know, compilation, so everyone
could see them quickly and virally, and that made a
huge difference. I think I think they're seeing him this.
Oh and of course though he's they're assuming him and statements.
They can't. In my opinion, they can't. It's and it's
speech suppression. So the irony is there, the attackers of
free speech.
Speaker 5: And you said it, you did and said all of
these things, and then you're mad at somebody for putting
it out there in a compilation, like what is wrong
with you?
Speaker 4: It's intimidation in my opinion, craziness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one more reason to find them absolutely vile.
Speaker 3: They are, and we can say that, right.
Speaker 5: Are they going to try to sue us for a
saying that they're vile assholes?
Speaker 4: They may try to sue anyone for any reason, but
you have first amendment right to your opinion for sure.
Speaker 2: Gosh, well it is our opinion.
Speaker 1: We are just simply alleging that we believe they are disgusting.
Speaker 5: Right, and we're just so we're like, we're behind you
all the way, you know. Yeah, not to be condescending,
but you go, girl.
Speaker 4: Well thank you, hey, I appreciate it.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, thank you for being with us.
We thank you absolutely