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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right podcast.

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Very excited today because Days and I have been doing

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a lot of talking about the Tate brothers and how much.

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Speaker 2: We loathe them.

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Speaker 1: And so today we have Danny Pincher with us, who

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is the SVP and director of the law Center for

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the National Center on Sexual Exploitation and is also a

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lawyer for Jane Doe, who is one of who is

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a person that has filed a countersuit against the Tate

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brothers after they, you know, alleged that she was did

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some things wrong with the Romanian rape cases. And so,

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for those of us who are not totally up to

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speed with how this case came about, your involvement in

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it and where it stands today, could you give.

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Speaker 3: Us some background?

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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely so. Jane Doe, our client is an American

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citizen who met Tristan Tate in Miami. He invited her

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to come to Romania. You know, she thought this is

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the beginning of an exciting, romantic, really relationship. She was

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very young, actually not even twenty one when she first

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met him, and then twenty one when she you know,

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went to Romania. And the reality is pretty quickly almost

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immediately when she got there, she got the sense that

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things were not right. This is you know, she thought,

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you know, this super romantic, exciting, you know guy was

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going to show her all around Europe, like that's what

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they talked about, seeing these sites, these artistic these museums,

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these shows. You know, she's a musician, she's going to

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play her music. But she was basically stuck in a

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house with these other women who most of them didn't

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speak English. He wasn't even around. He was like busy,

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you know, like, wasn't the point for us to have

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this romantic getaway. He's off who knows where most of

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the time, and she's just like sitting in this house

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with these women, and she's realizing they're all doing webcam

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so she's seeing you know, and I've got to keep

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things pretty general because that remained criminal case is ongoing

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and so that's all confidential information. But she was seeing

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signs that she felt or red flags, and so she texts,

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you know, her family back home. It says, you know,

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I think this was a mistake. I'm gonna get out

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of your arm's gonna sneak out, and then you know,

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we'll go from there. But like any parent and friend,

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because she was speaking with her parents and also a

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friend who had actually warned her not to go in

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the first place. And she was like, you're right, well,

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he was a marine, and so like any friend and

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like her parents, felt, you're not going to just okay.

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I hope you're able to sneak out of this dangerous

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situation in Romania. You know. He was like, I am

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a United States Marine and I am mandated. I have

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been trained to report human trafficking where I think it's occurring.

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So he called the US embassy, and the US embassy

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you know, alerted Romanian authorities and raided the Tates properties

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and rest her. So she was taken into custody, you know,

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complied as she had an obligation to do with Romania

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authorities of what she thought was going on, right her opinion,

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what she observed, and from there, Romania continued to investigate

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Tape Brothers and launched an investigation and criminal investigation into

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them that you know, the first case spans seven victims.

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They now have a second investigation that includes over thirty victims.

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But the Tape Brothers are hell bent on blaming Jane

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Doe for this situation. They have twisted the facts. They

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make wild claims that she was paid to come to

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Romania to make false accusations, whereas she did not walk

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into a police station make accusations. She planned on sneaking out,

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she begged her parents and her friend not to report

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they did anyway, and she complied with authorities when taken

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in the custody in a foreign country. I don't know

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that she had a choice to do that. She was

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obligated to do that, and for that they have relentless

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harassed her, including suing her in multiple different cases. She's

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trying to defend three different lawsuits in America for this.

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Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, you know, just reading about these guys

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because they have become sort of I don't know, it's

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like a mainstay, but people in conservative circles talk about them,

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which is gross. But yeah, they how did these guys

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make their money? They make it what through webcam?

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Speaker 4: Well, by their own statements. So for years they went

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on podcasts and the only reason they had anything to

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talk about was to talk about the webcam business. I

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mean they've said many times, you know, we are millionaires

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because of webcam. They brag about how they trick these

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girls into giving them money, brag about all the money

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that they get from scamming these guys. That that's another thing,

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you know. I think conservative media likes that the Tape

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Brothers say some good and true things about masculinity and

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they just ignore the rest. Well, Tape Brothers have bragged

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about making fools out of desperate and lonely men. I

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mean they've said that many times. They laugh about there's

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one podcast that's still out there with the NLK Brothers

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wherever those guys are where he is like bragging about

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I took this guy's house, I took his this, you know,

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we told him were she was going to meet the girl,

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but then I staved this whole fight. So then she

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doesn't come and he thinks it's his fault. But then

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he'll be back and he's and the guys even said, well,

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don't you feel kind of bad? He's like, no, I

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don't feel bad. Like basically they're idiots. So like, he's

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a scammer from start to finish. She scammed these women

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into something they didn't know what they were getting involved in.

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He scans the men on the other end of the webcam,

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and I think he's scammed the public, he's scammed conservative media.

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I don't think he has conservative values. I don't even

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think you can call his values traditional, even because he

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has disclaimed marriage and says he will never get married.

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So I don't just because he lauds some qualities of

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masculine they are considered traditional. I don't think you could

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even say that he has traditional Judaeo Christian values, you know.

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I mean, he proclaims to be follower of Islam, but

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even even the traditions of that faith, I don't believe

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his actions or statements are alignment with So I think

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it's time to drop, to drop him as a conservative

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influencer in my opinion, for sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean with the I know, you know a lot

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of the Romanian case, it's ongoing, it's confidential and all that,

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but I think for people like me who continue to see,

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you know, he Andrew Tate posts nonsense every day, just obnoxious, disgusting, gross,

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misogynistic nonsense, and I he's just walking around and it's

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like all.

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Speaker 2: The this Romanian case.

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Speaker 1: I know that they were on house arrest for a

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while and then suddenly they're just out in the world

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doing whatever.

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Speaker 2: So at what point are we going.

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Speaker 4: To see some justice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like and is it and just get

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away with everything?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 5: And is it just that this Jane Doe or are

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there other plaintiffs? Like are there other Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And I think so this confusion is exactly the Tape

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Brothers capitalized, and they have from the beginning. So there's

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a few things. One. Romania does not hold prisoners, even

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charged with serious crimes like sex trafficking, in like preventative custody,

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like in jail under except for very very very serious

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like this person is like a violent murderer. They basically

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the way that their system coming out of communism, they're

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very kind of the system is built to be shrewd

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and skeptical of holding people. So they were only in

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preventive custody for three months, which even Arenia standards pretty serious.

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Shows how serious the crimes were. But then the way

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the process is, every thirty days the prosecution have to

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justify new facts as to why they would need to

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be held, So it's almost impossible to hold them in

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custody while the case is pending. But the Tape Brothers

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kind of spend the American and UK audiences. You know,

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we're used to the fact that like p Diddy, for example,

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was in custody the entire time, So they spend that

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expectation to be some sort of sign that this was

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not serious in Romania, when that just was not true.

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So there's been some of that this entire time. And

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just to give you a procedural background the case, so

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there's two investigations. One involves Jane Doe and six other

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women named as victims. Two of the women named as

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victims are still cooperating with the Tape Brothers and have

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disclaimed to be in victims. So the Tates love to

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show videos of those women and say there are no

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victims and are victims because two of the women say

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they're not, but four other women are and have maintained

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that they are and that they were harmed by the

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Tape Brothers. So there's some misinformation confusion that they play

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off of. Now the case, that first case went all

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the way up through so those through the pre trial stages.

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Everyone acted like it took a long time. It didn't.

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I mean even in the United States, a federal prosecution

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takes years, and it took about a year and a

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half to go from the very beginning to ready for

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trial went through that whole pre trial stage where like

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the Tape Brothers, as is the right challenging every little thing.

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I mean that that is the right to do. But

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that's what takes so long. And the Romanian system also

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allows for judicial appeal of every single decision, so that

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would not happen here. Here you have your trial judge

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and the defense doesn't get to appeal anything until the end.

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There are some exceptions, but generally speaking, if you have

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issues with the court's orders during that time, you got

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to wait to the end to appeal them. But in

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the Romanian system you can appeal as you go, which

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causes further delay. Right, you have to wait for ever.

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You have to wait for an appeals court before you

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can even move to the next stage. But despite all that,

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it progressed all the way through the trial court. Trial.

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Jed said it was ready for trial, and they appealed that,

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and the appeals court then found that there were some

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issues that honestly were probably right. Two of the more

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obvious ones were when the tables were first taken into custody,

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they were not informed that they were suspects, right that

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they were criminally implicated. They were basically told they were

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just witnesses at that point, which violated the rights. I

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think that's true. So, uh, the prosecutor basically the judge

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said you need to go back and retake their statements

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after having informed them that they are suspects essentially. So

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you know, the Tates again like to say this case

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was thrown out because of lack of evidence. But there

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was no evidence that was excluded except for certain statements

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for issues like the defense being present for the victim

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statements and the defense being notified of the rights. So

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the prosecutor just had to retake those statements and then

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refile the indictment. So they're in the process of doing that,

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as my understanding, But it's delay. It's just delay that

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the Tae brothers like to say case is over and

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just quickly I'll say, there is a second investigation that

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includes over thirty victims, as I mentioned, and includes two

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alleged minor victims.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, so how old when you say

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minor victims?

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Speaker 4: How old one was fifteen and the other I believe seventeen.

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Oh my god.

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Speaker 5: So do you think they're trying to avoid due process?

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Like they just don't want that?

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think they're going to do everything they

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can to just disrupt the case entirely. I mean, they

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want this case to fall apart. There they love to say,

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take me to court, I can't wait. But you can

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see through the actions of their lawyers that they've done

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everything they can to disrupt the case. I think the

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misinformation does that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, because it spans three countries, right, it's like yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, and it's these are different victims. So the Tape

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brothers lived although they are American citizens, they grew up

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mostly in the UK and then moved to Romania in

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like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, So the UK victims are

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from their time living in the UK. So pre twenty sixteen,

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there was first three or four women that went to

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the police when they were when the Tapos were still

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living in the UK, and all alleged you know, violent assaults,

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sexual assaults, rape, strangulation. They have voice membos of Andrew

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Tates saying I love raping you, for example, and text

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messages saying, oh get over it. You know I choked

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you a little bit. So what But for whatever reason,

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the UK and the prosecution, the law enforcement recommended prosecution

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and they sent it to the prosecutors, and the Crown

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Prosecution Service declined to prosecute, basically saying like, we just

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don't think we'll get a conviction and that's discretionary. That

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happens here too, and that happens. I just like to

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say that that happens all the time with sexual assault

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cases because the prosecutor knows, like the travesty that happens

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with the Diddy trial, that even if they have evidence

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that technically meets the burden, jurors can be influenced by

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things like the victims not perfect, or the victim was

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in a relationship with this person, or the victim was

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maybe a webcam model for example. The jury is gonna

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not be influenced by those things in the negative way,

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and all the prosecutor wants is a clean conviction. So

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we see this all the time, that prosecutors won't take

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sexual assault cases with strong evidence because of issues like that.

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And so that looks like that's what happened. So those

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women are suing civilly, but separate and apart from those victims,

250
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there are other UK victims who have now come forward

251
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to the police and the bed for Sure Police Department

252
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in the UK is investigating and prosecuting the Tate brothers

253
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for those other victims in the UK, unrelated to the

254
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for women I just talked about, and they have an

255
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extradition order from Romania. So basically in deference to Romania,

256
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once the Romanian prosecution is ended, whether they drop it

257
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or prosecute fully and the Tate Brothers are in jail

258
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or prosecuting Filly and shape Billers are acquitted, they have

259
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to wait until that process plays out. But then Romania

260
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has already agreed, like a Romanian court has said we

261
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will extradite them upon completion of this process, so that

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is still the status quo. My god, it's like, there's.

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Speaker 5: So much going on with these guys, and then the

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public opinion of them is. It's so weird because we

265
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have you know, we do a show every single day

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and we have our comments section that we're like reading

267
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through every day, and we're obviously conservative, you know, with

268
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their you can tell with their name and everything, and

269
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and you know, we'll read the comments if we start

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talking about these jack holes and the people. It's mixed, right,

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which drives us both. I'll speak for Miriam too. It

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drives us both insane because of people like the Canvases

273
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and the Tuckers and other people in the conservative you know,

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realm who have profiled these guys and made them I

275
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don't I don't even know why they've given them a platform,

276
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but they have, and I don't neither one of us

277
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really understands it. But I think that there is like

278
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they don't know all of these facts. I know what's

279
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going on, and I and I think, I mean, maybe

280
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you can correct me if I'm wrong, But I would

281
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imagine that they've blonde on to some of these conservative

282
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influencers because it makes them appear better in the public forum.

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Speaker 4: Exactly. That's intentional, in my opinion, that's completely calculated. If

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you you look at like the Tate brother statements in

285
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the past, you can follow an evolution where they were

286
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they didn't even claim to be conservative, and they even

287
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claim to have some of the values they have. You

288
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also hear them say things about networking and getting people

289
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in your circle, and and also how easily people are fooled.

290
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Talks about that all the time. You can lie to

291
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people so easily, give them what they want, and they'll

292
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you know, believe anything you say. There's many, many such

293
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statements that show that this is a playbook. This is

294
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a calculated move to control the narrative. And I think

295
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what's going on is and you guys kind of touched

296
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on that. You know, Andrew Tate's constantly posting these, you know,

297
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things that are upset or vile or whatever. That's intentional.

298
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He wants to post something that is controversial because it

299
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gets the most views. So it's intentionally rage baby. It's

300
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intentionally meant to be divisive and eye catching so that

301
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it gets views. And if you look at his falling

302
00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:20,039
on X, he must be one of the have the

303
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,639
largest followings. I mean on X even a hundred following

304
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of one hundred thousand is a big following. He has

305
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I think close to ten million, So they have an

306
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:32,799
unbelievable following that is very attractive I think to people

307
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like Teche Canvas.

308
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Speaker 1: Well, and because Tucker and Kanvas's audiences are so huge

309
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and they and and those two influencers in particular, and

310
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Benny Johnson's another one that's platformed in right. I mean,

311
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they have they have made they have raised his profile

312
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in conservative circles to the extent that even this past weekend,

313
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and it was a woman on Twitter who I or

314
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X or whatever who I fought with because I had

315
00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:02,360
retweeted some thing of Andrew Tates that was just some

316
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disgusting thing that he called women puppies essentially they'll do

317
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anything you want or something like that, and I and

318
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I just had made the comment I will never understand

319
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,480
the men who admire this guy or the women who

320
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,599
want to be with him for any reason, right, And

321
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,319
a woman fought with me about that because she said,

322
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you're just buying into the media created narrative about him.

323
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And I'm like, look, I'm literally quoting him. I'm literally

324
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quoting him. I don't have to listen to anybody else's

325
00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:34,319
opinion of him.

326
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Speaker 2: I just have to listen to him.

327
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Speaker 5: It is disgusting, so disgusting, and it's all there, like

328
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:41,839
it's all there. You can see that Stuffie says and

329
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,960
that he does. And then they they it's like they

330
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just that it. They have been masters at crafting mass

331
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or narrative.

332
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Speaker 3: It's gross. It's just so gross.

333
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Speaker 4: Yes, they have identified and I think, you know, this

334
00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,000
is kind of like, what is propaganda in this, Danny?

335
00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:02,920
What do we need to do as the public to

336
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,039
be critical of the new media as we were of

337
00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:10,240
the old media. Because the Tape brothers have identified an

338
00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:13,480
area where people are disgruntled and people are upset, and

339
00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,200
they're upset at the idea that people would be silenced

340
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for views and that people would be targeted for views,

341
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and so they have tapped into that to then abuse

342
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it and twist it in a really gross way. So

343
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they have said so publicly and so often, so repeatedly,

344
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that they are victims of being targeted for their views

345
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,720
on traditional masculinity, which I even don't think that's true,

346
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but let's say it is that they have been targeted.

347
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You know, they're tapping into people being upset that the

348
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,440
president was targeted with law fair. So they've targeted into

349
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that and aligned themselves and paralleled themselves and done it

350
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in such an exhaustive way because they have a big

351
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,559
following that they can get to pair it. So they've

352
00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:55,400
gotten to this place where the public consciousness, you just

353
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know this narrative that the tapes are targeted for their

354
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speech and it's because of traditional masculinity, which is another

355
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,319
thing conserves are upset about that there's been an oversuppression

356
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,640
and over attack of mass traditional mask of values. So

357
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,200
they've tapped into that. I am a victim of censorship

358
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:15,640
for traditional mask of values and conservatives, and really just

359
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,160
a lot of general people are so triggered by that

360
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,680
and emotionally invested in that as a movement that they

361
00:19:21,759 --> 00:19:26,440
don't realize that people can be so so macivaliant in

362
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,160
the sense that they will literally lie about something you

363
00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:32,039
believe in to get your support. You know, most people

364
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,319
don't do that, and you don't tend to believe anyone

365
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:36,559
would do that, so you're not looking out for that.

366
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But the truth is he has completely co opted that

367
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narrative to suit his purposes and to such a degree

368
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that now he can say anything you can nearly spit

369
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in your eye, and you will ignore it because you

370
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believe that if you criticize it, that's playing in to

371
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the attack and the suppression of his speech and the

372
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attack of masking values. And so he's insulated himself and

373
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to an incredible degree in that regard.

374
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Speaker 5: Yeah, and even when he laughs in your face about

375
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,559
doing it, Yeah, they still are like, Oh, it's fine,

376
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:06,279
it's totally fine. It's unreal to me. It's just unreal in.

377
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,039
Speaker 2: Your I mean, in your line of work.

378
00:20:08,079 --> 00:20:11,119
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've come across like a zillion vial and

379
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,960
shocking and horrible story people which I can't even begin

380
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:16,559
to imagine. But was there anything in your work with

381
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,000
Jane Doe or any of the other victims, or just

382
00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:21,839
you know, looking into the Tape Brothers as a whole,

383
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,920
was there anything that like really had your jaw on

384
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,079
the floor that was just that was surprising even to you.

385
00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I'm so glad you asked me that because

386
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,839
the Tape Brothers methods of what I believe is sex

387
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,680
trafficking is very common. We see it all the time,

388
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,960
which is preying on vulnerable women. They're already in a

389
00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:45,200
volnable position, right, there's sort of an a miss out there,

390
00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:47,440
right that, like you can only be a victim if

391
00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:50,920
you are at this you know, sweet naive, perfect child

392
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,720
that was snatched at your home. Well, the truth is

393
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:56,279
like a lot of really troubled women and young girls

394
00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:58,160
who were coming out of the foster care system with

395
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,640
a rap sheet are the because they have all these

396
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,599
issues and they're so desperately seeking love. Right, So he

397
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,640
is targeting women who are vulnerable and who have baggage.

398
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,000
They did this, and like I said, there's there's thirty

399
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:13,960
alleged victims in Romania. So this was systematic, went on

400
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,599
for years, and it was a very aggressive recruitment. They

401
00:21:16,599 --> 00:21:20,119
were recruiting many, many women. But the method by which

402
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,000
they did it primarily was to sweep these women off

403
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,279
their feet, love, bondb them, make them feel special in

404
00:21:25,279 --> 00:21:26,599
a way that no one in their life has in

405
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:32,759
cleaning their family, and then manipulate them into performing pornography,

406
00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:35,119
oftentimes even though they never did that before. Some of

407
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,039
them women hadn't, some hadn't and really convinced them even

408
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:40,039
they didn't want to. Upon resistance, they would beg not

409
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:41,559
to and they'd say, come on, this is we got

410
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,240
to live the dream, like if you really love me.

411
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:44,759
And some of the things he would do is he

412
00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:46,480
would say this is some of the stuff I found

413
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,240
on shocking. Is he would say, you know what, this

414
00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:50,720
isn't even about you doing the pornography. I want to

415
00:21:50,759 --> 00:21:53,240
see that you obey me. You need to obey me

416
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,920
because that's what a real woman does for a man.

417
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,599
And you say you want traditional family like you would

418
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,839
use that. You say you're a you say you're this

419
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,799
you want you need to obey your husband, And now

420
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:04,640
I just need to see that you'll obey me. That's

421
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,680
the kind of thing he would say, and he would

422
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,440
get this woe to do it and then give all

423
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,359
the money to him because it was for them, and

424
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,559
so they didn't really realize they were being scanned because

425
00:22:13,559 --> 00:22:15,920
they're thinking of it like, well, my husband's not going

426
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,839
to misuse my money. Of course, he was never thinking

427
00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:22,839
about this as a partnership. He never even cohabitated with them,

428
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,440
and you know what, puts money directly in his bank

429
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,880
account and they'd have to beg him for any money.

430
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,079
And so that's very common sort of that scheme, but

431
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,000
it's also very hard for people to understand. People expect, unfortunately,

432
00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:39,319
sex trapping to involve children snash off the street. They

433
00:22:39,599 --> 00:22:42,160
expect really really serious violence. I think that was a

434
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,359
confusion with P Diddy, although there was sporadic violences also

435
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,640
like loving language. So people are confused. But then the

436
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,680
Tape brothers admit to using this strategy explicitly and that

437
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:55,839
this was all intentional by design. That's what shocked me

438
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,920
the most. I was like, he's describing I mean, he

439
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:04,400
would publicly describe Vibe buying the book and learning pimping

440
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,160
techniques he's like pimping. Can is a famous street pimp,

441
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:13,799
means he he pimped women on the streets for prostitution.

442
00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:17,160
Law enforcement uses his book in training law enforcement. He's

443
00:23:17,319 --> 00:23:20,680
well known criminal pimp, and the Tape Brothers routinely talk

444
00:23:20,759 --> 00:23:24,920
about him as an inspiration, as their mentor. Essentially, he

445
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,000
even mentioned it to kandas he mentioned it to Kansas,

446
00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:31,519
Trint Tristan quotes him to Kansas and Owens and she

447
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,799
just sort of like ignores that, and he admits that,

448
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,599
like this is the strategy to convince women to fall

449
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:40,839
in love with them so we could take all their money.

450
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,559
You know, I think if we had admissions like that,

451
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,640
and p didty, I think he was doing the same thing,

452
00:23:46,079 --> 00:23:49,839
but he didn't admit it. So that's why I find

453
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,519
so shocking that he, you know, was very cruel in

454
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:57,599
my opinion, in his using this system, and then he's

455
00:23:57,799 --> 00:23:59,839
very open about it. Yeah, people are still confused.

456
00:24:00,039 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 3: He prayed, He prayed on the most vulnerable.

457
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,759
Speaker 5: He prayed on vulnerable people and bragged about it.

458
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 3: That's just so disgusting.

459
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,599
Speaker 1: And then and then packaged his methods in courses made

460
00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:15,279
billions of dollars.

461
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,039
Speaker 3: So other men could do it.

462
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:18,799
Speaker 2: So it's so disgusting.

463
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,759
Speaker 1: Has he or have either of the brothers been threatening

464
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:24,559
in any way to you, Like, have they come after

465
00:24:24,599 --> 00:24:25,240
you because of.

466
00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:30,079
Speaker 4: Question in this Well, I've been sued by you know,

467
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,640
by them. Well it's a third party represented by their

468
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,480
same attorneys, So I mean I would argue that's all

469
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,599
part of the intimidation process. But you know, and our

470
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,640
organization when we first started this case got flooded with

471
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:48,319
like so vile, like pornographic emails, and our systems seriously, yeah,

472
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,599
like stick stuff would be like these long, sick, disturbing narratives,

473
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,880
get like hundreds of them, and at first we're like,

474
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,680
what is this? And then I realized this is like

475
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,240
a tage strategy. So I think it was likely his

476
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,920
followers doing that, you know, maybe at his direction, maybe

477
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,559
on their own, I don't know, but yeah, so various.

478
00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,519
I mean, it could be worse. I'm more concerned about

479
00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:10,759
my client, who's I was going to say, harassed online

480
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:14,240
and threatens, death threats, people constantly trying to find her.

481
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,240
She's been living you know this. She was first rescued

482
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,720
in twenty twenty two. She's been living and hiding since then,

483
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,359
and she and it's a state of hyper visulance. It's

484
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,799
you know, she's it's awful, especially how long agoes going on.

485
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,480
She's like, I feel I can't get a job, I

486
00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:30,240
can't like put my name on at least, like they'll

487
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:32,400
google me and they'll see all this nasty stuff. And

488
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,880
you know, she's just constantly looking over her shoulder and

489
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,680
you know, and you know, she's expressed like it's not

490
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:41,119
even just I know they can't be everywhere to try

491
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,799
and murder me themselves, but they have this vehement fothing

492
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:47,359
at the mouth following and they could be anywhere anytime,

493
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,559
and they're online folks who were like always docks and people.

494
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:55,480
They're trying to find me, you know, and it's just awful, awful.

495
00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 5: So her life has been on hold for three years. Yeah,

496
00:25:58,039 --> 00:26:00,799
and when do you actually go to trial again? When

497
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:01,400
does that happen?

498
00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:04,079
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see the civil case has you know, we

499
00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:06,920
want to take deference to that criminal case. We would

500
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,880
like to. In my view, and I this is just

501
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,279
my opinion, the civil cases were meant only to disrupt

502
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,400
or dissuade Jane Doe from participating in the criminal cases.

503
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,200
You know, they're meant as a part of this disruption

504
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,160
strategy to stop these prosecutions. In my opinion, so I

505
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,200
want the prosecutions to play out first, as they should,

506
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,160
and so you know, we've been trying to do what

507
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,200
we can to you know, hold the civil case till

508
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,480
that happens, stay until the investigations play out, but you

509
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,759
know we'll see first. I think the whole thing should

510
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:40,720
have been dismissed in the first instance. Of course, I

511
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,440
think she had a First Amendment right to talk to

512
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,599
the police. I think it's obvious that this is a

513
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,680
slap suit to harass her for her speech and that

514
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,920
likely in the end to have immunity for whatever she

515
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,799
said to law enforcement. So I think it was frivolous

516
00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:55,680
from the get go when the court was not inclined

517
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,400
to dismiss it and wanted to at least give them

518
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,799
their shot. You know, we countersuit as we believe is

519
00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:02,559
our right, but we're just at the beginning of the

520
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:06,759
discovery phase, so this will take some time. We don't

521
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:09,440
we have to. We don't even have like a trial

522
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:12,960
date set. Like what we have now is is old

523
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,640
and has to be redone. And like I said, I

524
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,559
I believe it should be stayed in enery case until

525
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:20,880
the prosecution's place in these various jurisdictions, but at least

526
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,440
where she gave statements in Romania, right, Yeah.

527
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 5: It just seems so unfair because her life is on

528
00:27:25,279 --> 00:27:28,640
hold and then they're out there just being all their

529
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,400
new freaking a right, It's just so unfair.

530
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

531
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, obviously we wish you all the success

532
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:39,599
in the world as you move forward with Jane Doe,

533
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,359
and we wish her all the best too.

534
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:43,559
Speaker 2: And you know, we're we're following this.

535
00:27:43,759 --> 00:27:47,279
Speaker 1: We we try all the time to help our audience

536
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,960
understand that these are not good people, that that broken

537
00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:53,599
clocks are right twice a day. Just because they say

538
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,319
something that you resonate with in one moment does not

539
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,240
discount the fact that they are disgusting.

540
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,319
Speaker 2: Assholes the rest of the time. And so hopefully are

541
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,039
keeping we.

542
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 5: Will we will, we will keep doing it, we assolutely.

543
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 4: It does make a difference. And you know, there's like

544
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,319
Nathan Livingstone who does like those compilations. I mean, he

545
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,240
was able to get the videos out that the tablers

546
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,880
have out there. Anyone could find what they want, but

547
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,000
they don't see them, and he was able to put

548
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:24,240
them in a in a you know, compilation, so everyone

549
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,480
could see them quickly and virally, and that made a

550
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:29,720
huge difference. I think I think they're seeing him this.

551
00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:34,599
Oh and of course though he's they're assuming him and statements.

552
00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:39,799
They can't. In my opinion, they can't. It's and it's

553
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:43,759
speech suppression. So the irony is there, the attackers of

554
00:28:43,839 --> 00:28:44,799
free speech.

555
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:47,759
Speaker 5: And you said it, you did and said all of

556
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:50,000
these things, and then you're mad at somebody for putting

557
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:51,920
it out there in a compilation, like what is wrong

558
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:52,359
with you?

559
00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:55,559
Speaker 4: It's intimidation in my opinion, craziness.

560
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, one more reason to find them absolutely vile.

561
00:28:58,759 --> 00:29:01,119
Speaker 3: They are, and we can say that, right.

562
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,319
Speaker 5: Are they going to try to sue us for a

563
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:03,559
saying that they're vile assholes?

564
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:05,799
Speaker 4: They may try to sue anyone for any reason, but

565
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,839
you have first amendment right to your opinion for sure.

566
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: Gosh, well it is our opinion.

567
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:16,079
Speaker 1: We are just simply alleging that we believe they are disgusting.

568
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,319
Speaker 5: Right, and we're just so we're like, we're behind you

569
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,359
all the way, you know. Yeah, not to be condescending,

570
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,599
but you go, girl.

571
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: Well thank you, hey, I appreciate it.

572
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:26,839
Speaker 5: I do.

573
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, thank you for being with us.

574
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,279
We thank you absolutely