1
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong

2
00:00:18,359 --> 00:00:20,679
with Molly Hemingway, editor in chief of The Federalist and

3
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,519
David Harsani, senior writer at The Washington Examiner. Just as

4
00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:26,480
a reminder, if you'd like to email the show, please

5
00:00:26,559 --> 00:00:30,519
do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. Molly,

6
00:00:30,559 --> 00:00:31,239
how's it going.

7
00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:33,399
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to turn on my microphone for

8
00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,719
a minute though. Yeah, everything's great.

9
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,719
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the media, Molly. There's a new

10
00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:42,079
book app by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson. Forget what

11
00:00:42,119 --> 00:00:45,280
it's called, but basically it's about how the media was

12
00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:53,320
bamboozled by the Biden administration on the president's mental acuity

13
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,600
and his ability to perform his job. I find the

14
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,000
whole it's just kabookie theater or everyone knew. I don't

15
00:01:01,039 --> 00:01:04,280
buy any of this, any of what's going on with

16
00:01:04,359 --> 00:01:08,719
this kind of internal struggle session that's going on about

17
00:01:09,079 --> 00:01:10,920
how the media acted during those years. I think they

18
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,400
knew in twenty twenty when Biden was in his basement

19
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,799
campaigning from there, I certainly saw it and everyone knew

20
00:01:17,879 --> 00:01:20,040
was only going to get worse. Anyway, What are your

21
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:21,560
impressions of what's going on here.

22
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,439
Speaker 2: Okay, so I just have to point out you said

23
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,120
you didn't know what the title of the book is,

24
00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:29,159
and I wouldn't have known either except I read a

25
00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:32,879
line in a New York Times review of the book.

26
00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:37,599
So the book is called Original Sin, and the New

27
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,079
York Times, those noted brilliant, knowledgeable people at the New

28
00:01:41,159 --> 00:01:47,359
York Times said that unlike the Biblical story about original sin,

29
00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:51,480
which they said was Adam and Eve were just innocently

30
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,920
curious and fell into sin, that the story of the

31
00:01:55,959 --> 00:01:59,640
Biden problem is one where they were actually intending to

32
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,840
hide his condition. So someone get the New York Times

33
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,879
a copy of a Bible, and it's very hard to get,

34
00:02:07,079 --> 00:02:11,159
I'm sure, but someone needs or just like Sunday School

35
00:02:11,199 --> 00:02:13,599
for Dummies kind of lessons over at the New York

36
00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:15,439
Times are needed.

37
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:20,120
Speaker 1: Well, no, they're notorious for understanding theological ideas. Over there

38
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,800
at the New York Times are the.

39
00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:24,319
Speaker 2: Story of original Sin and Adam and even eating the apple.

40
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,479
It's not like, oh, totally unknown stories. So even for them,

41
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,360
this was pretty bad. But yes, you're exactly right. The

42
00:02:31,439 --> 00:02:35,159
claim being made by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson is

43
00:02:35,319 --> 00:02:41,879
not that they lied throughout the Biden administration by downplaying, ignoring,

44
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,919
or mocking people who noticed Joe Biden's mental decline. It's

45
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:51,120
that they were misled by a tiny handful of anonymous

46
00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:54,280
people inside the White House. They can't name who these

47
00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,159
people are, and they can't be specific about what they did.

48
00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,759
But just so you know, it's not that the media

49
00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:03,400
about Biden's decline. It's that it's that about a half

50
00:03:03,479 --> 00:03:06,800
dozen people misled them. This is as stupid as their

51
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,800
original problem, which was covering up Biden's mental decline or

52
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,080
mocking people who who noticed it. Everyone loves to say

53
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,479
that Jake Tapper's co author Alex Thompson actually did a

54
00:03:18,479 --> 00:03:22,520
great job covering Biden's mental decline. That is only true

55
00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,599
by comparison to the other propagandists in that he would

56
00:03:26,599 --> 00:03:29,479
occasionally mention it, but it would always be with these

57
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,000
like really calm headlines like Biden is changing the way

58
00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:37,439
he walks to Marine Force one, what is it called

59
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,400
Marine one? And then the story would say he's having

60
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,000
people walk around him, And then it would say some

61
00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:45,800
people think this is because he's declining a bit, but

62
00:03:45,919 --> 00:03:48,080
other people say no, it's for protection. I mean, it

63
00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:54,000
was like so blase and boring, designed not to create

64
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,639
the kind of hysteria that you see about every single

65
00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,840
Trump story. And Jake Tapper, for his part, was deriding

66
00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:04,039
people as mocking a man with a stutter whenever they

67
00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,159
noticed his decline. So he was much worse. And now

68
00:04:07,159 --> 00:04:09,080
he's making a lot of money off of a book

69
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,159
claiming that six people in the White House misled him.

70
00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,039
Speaker 1: Well, as far as Thompson goes, we're grading on a curve,

71
00:04:15,159 --> 00:04:17,360
and you know, he scores well in that way. He

72
00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:20,720
was a late adopter, though, because he went back this

73
00:04:20,879 --> 00:04:23,199
last week. And I tried to figure out when I

74
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,720
started writing about this. Listen, I'm not a doctor, but

75
00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:28,959
I kind of noticed that things weren't exactly right. And

76
00:04:29,199 --> 00:04:31,759
in twenty twenty one I wrote my first column about

77
00:04:31,759 --> 00:04:34,079
how he was doddering, you know what I mean. And

78
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:35,839
it did not stop from there. And by the way,

79
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,240
I was part of many people who did that.

80
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,279
Speaker 2: Wait, so I was doing a radio interview where they

81
00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,240
were praising the Federalists for all of our good coverage

82
00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:50,519
early on the Russia collusion hoax and the Kavanaugh rapesmear

83
00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:52,720
and these types of stories, and they were including the

84
00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,199
Biden mental acuity issue. And I said, we did amazing

85
00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,240
work on Russia collusion in Cavanaugh, COVID and all that,

86
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,399
But I don't don't want to take credit for early

87
00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:04,560
amazing work on the Biden stuff, because we didn't do

88
00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:08,279
anything any earlier than one hundred million people in the

89
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,040
country noticed things like we weren't. We weren't like exposing

90
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,560
secret knowledge. We were just watching the news with our

91
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,519
eyes and saying what we saw. It wasn't that impressive.

92
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,439
Speaker 1: Well, and you mentioned something in passing before that, I

93
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,040
think we need to talk about a little bit. If

94
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,839
this is the original sin that sounds really bad, right,

95
00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:32,000
original sin that the subhead by the subtitle is President

96
00:05:32,079 --> 00:05:35,240
Biden's decline, it's cover up and his disastrous choice to

97
00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:36,680
run again. Now I'm going to get back to that

98
00:05:36,759 --> 00:05:41,680
last part in a minute. If you were tricked by

99
00:05:42,199 --> 00:05:45,600
the Biden administration and as his flax and hacks and

100
00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:48,879
whatever it is, why can't you name all the people

101
00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,360
who did it? I mean, if the president could not

102
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,279
president has the nuclear codes. It's the most important person

103
00:05:54,759 --> 00:05:58,319
in the world, arguably probably, and yet you can't tell

104
00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:00,600
us who tricked you. I didn't read this book. I

105
00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:03,480
doubt he names anyone right who should lose their job,

106
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,160
who shouldn't be part of the Democratic Party moving forward.

107
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,639
They know exactly what they did. I said this many times.

108
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,519
But if they didn't know, they shouldn't be reporters. If

109
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,920
they did know, they shouldn't be reporters. Those are the

110
00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:17,360
two choices here. There's no other choice.

111
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,639
Speaker 2: So I saw Megan mccardal, who's at the Washington Post,

112
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,120
dunking on a Twitter user named political math who was

113
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,879
talking about I think his point was about how Jake

114
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:36,000
Tapper kept getting used by people, and she said, we

115
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,480
should not go after people when they admit that they

116
00:06:39,519 --> 00:06:42,000
were wrong about something, or they admit they were misled.

117
00:06:42,319 --> 00:06:45,360
You know, this is really a bad way to approach it.

118
00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:48,879
And everyone in her replies was like, he wasn't misled,

119
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,720
he was lying. Jake Tapper is lying, and they're you know,

120
00:06:54,759 --> 00:06:57,000
I encourage people to put the best construction on all

121
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:02,279
sorts of bad behavior, but or that doesn't mean you

122
00:07:02,519 --> 00:07:05,959
deny the reality that Jake Tapper is lying. He is

123
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,920
lying when he says that he was misled by the

124
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,040
White House, and that's why he couldn't do his job.

125
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:18,839
He simply he views his job as regurgitating whatever Democrat

126
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,800
Party operatives or intel figures tell him to do. So.

127
00:07:22,839 --> 00:07:27,680
His claim is I did defense for the Democrat Party

128
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,439
during Biden's presidency, and now because Democrats told me he

129
00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:35,720
was doing fine. Democrats and the White House kept saying

130
00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:38,639
he was doing fine, and I regurgitated that. And now

131
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,160
Democrats are saying that, oh, actually they were hiding it

132
00:07:43,279 --> 00:07:46,560
from so many people, and so I'm regurgitating that claim

133
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,639
because it helps the Democrat Party. There are major issues

134
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,879
in play if Jake Tapper's story were true, like there

135
00:07:53,879 --> 00:07:59,040
would be pushes for criminal charges right hiding from the

136
00:07:59,079 --> 00:08:02,920
American people. The decline of someone unable to perform the

137
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,600
duties of the presidency is a major issue. And he's

138
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,319
not treating it like a major issue. He's merely treating

139
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,399
it like I would like to somehow recover my reputation

140
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,959
by covering the story five years after it matters.

141
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. I think she's a I

142
00:08:20,439 --> 00:08:25,800
think Megan mccardil is a good faith debater basically. And yeah,

143
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,480
she also said something and I wish I could remember

144
00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,440
the term for how people are late to believe something

145
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,440
because they don't see it in an aggressive manner, or

146
00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:39,200
you know, because they don't hate Biden. Like let's say,

147
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,879
I shouldn't say hate. Hate'es a strong word. I dislike

148
00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:46,480
Biden intensely that because I see it that way, I'm

149
00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:49,679
more easily I see the things that he does wrong.

150
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,919
But people who aren't that way don't. I mean, then

151
00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:55,200
you shouldn't be a reporter. Skepticism is the key to

152
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,000
being a reporter. I've said it a million times. And

153
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,600
if you can't see what's going on, you're not right

154
00:09:00,639 --> 00:09:03,399
for the job. Jake Tapper, who he has a long

155
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,639
record and plays this little triangulation game that makes him

156
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,080
look moderate to some people. This is how can I say,

157
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,440
this is a contrived position he takes when it's safe.

158
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,360
He's always a moderate when it's safe to be a moderate,

159
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,960
and we shouldn't fall for it with him. I'll give

160
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,120
you an example. So in this book, there's a New

161
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,519
Yorker excerpt. It's very long. I was interested in reading it.

162
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:36,159
But so remember the Clooney fundraiser in Hollywood where Barack

163
00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:38,960
Obama had to lead lead Biden off the stage by

164
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,600
the hands because he didn't know where he was. So

165
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,200
now we learn from in this book that Joe Biden

166
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,279
didn't even know who George Clooney was when he saw

167
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:46,799
him there.

168
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,440
Speaker 2: This is my favorite story about Joe Biden, and I

169
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,440
think very I love it.

170
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,320
Speaker 1: Well anyway, So I just, you know, so he didn't

171
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,840
know George Clooney was probably offended George Clooney very much.

172
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,000
Who wrote a he's asking to step down later after

173
00:10:02,039 --> 00:10:05,720
the debate, But three days after that, CNN, where Jake

174
00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:11,559
Tapper works, had a has a media newsletter written by

175
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,519
whatever Oliver Darcy or whatever that guy's name is, and

176
00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:16,559
he said that it was a fabrication to say that

177
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,919
he was a lot of stage. I wrote a column

178
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,320
I think the last year, you know, detail or months ago,

179
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,840
detailing that virtually, and not even virtually, every major establishment

180
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,960
media outlet, ABC, NBC they all said that the videos

181
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,039
of Joe Biden were fake news or cheap fakes, that

182
00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:37,200
everything was a fabrication, that was paranoid. There's an NBC

183
00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:43,200
news headline that says Republicans are spreading the conspiracy theory

184
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,360
that Joe Biden might not run again. I mean, that

185
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,080
is insane. So if they were all fooled. Where's the reckoning?

186
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:53,080
Where is Why aren't reporters telling me how they were fooled,

187
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,360
who fooled them? So on and so on again. I

188
00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:57,320
just think it's just not true.

189
00:10:57,519 --> 00:10:59,519
Speaker 2: I just want to highlight that first thing you said, too,

190
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,159
which is when a reporter, when the best case scenario

191
00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:06,799
is that a reporter is fooled on every single story

192
00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:12,679
he covers, whether it's Russia collusion, COVID hysteria, Kavanaugh rapesmear,

193
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:17,720
trans issues, lawfare, and Joe Biden's mental decline and a

194
00:11:17,799 --> 00:11:22,679
thousand other stories, you should not claim to be a journalist.

195
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,360
You're you know, I don't get fooled on those on

196
00:11:25,399 --> 00:11:26,039
those stories.

197
00:11:27,799 --> 00:11:30,759
Speaker 1: I mean, even if you're fooled and you're then wrong,

198
00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:33,320
which I have been in my life, you write something up,

199
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,440
you say I was fooled. I was wrong. This is

200
00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,159
why I was misled. This is why, yes, ye, to

201
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,279
concede that you make mistakes is a smart thing to do.

202
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,320
I think it gives you credibility as a journalist.

203
00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 2: David, Yeah, don't think. Still, there's a difference between getting

204
00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:57,960
a story wrong and pushing information operations like I.

205
00:11:57,879 --> 00:11:59,279
Speaker 1: Don't think they got it wrong. I think this was

206
00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:01,919
an information. I think they tried to hide the president's

207
00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:02,360
to climb.

208
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,799
Speaker 2: Which is what I'm saying is I totally agree when

209
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,159
you get something wrong, you should admit it. Like I

210
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,840
got how conservative Trump would be wrong, so I admit it.

211
00:12:14,399 --> 00:12:17,440
I got how wrong it would be, Like I wasn't

212
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,000
even writing at the time, but just because I believed

213
00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:23,080
that opening up trade with China would be a totally

214
00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:25,279
great thing, I always admit that I fell for that,

215
00:12:25,399 --> 00:12:27,960
not fell for it, but like I thought opening trade

216
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,639
with China would be good for both China and the

217
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,120
United States, and it turned out to have some serious downsides.

218
00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:36,840
I have no problem admitting things like that, but when

219
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,559
it comes to reporting, that requires you to check sourcing,

220
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,720
to be diligent, and so I don't think you should

221
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,559
just get things wrong or you know, if you admit

222
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,679
that you've got something wrong more than once, that's when

223
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,440
you think about changing careers. The Russia collusion hoak story

224
00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:57,000
required reliance on anonymous store on anonymous sources that were compromised.

225
00:12:57,519 --> 00:13:02,200
I have previously told our audience about how the same

226
00:13:02,799 --> 00:13:06,080
moment that I realized the Russia collusion hoax was a hoax,

227
00:13:06,639 --> 00:13:09,960
I was on set with Jake Tapper because of things

228
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,960
I witnessed while on set with him, So I know

229
00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:15,600
he knows it was a total BS story. So it's

230
00:13:15,639 --> 00:13:18,360
not just about oh, I got something wrong and I

231
00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:22,840
misunderstood or I was misled. This is a pattern of

232
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,320
corrupt behavior from Jake Tapper that means he should not

233
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,279
be making money off of journalism.

234
00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:32,519
Speaker 1: I'm sure he makes a lot though, and this book

235
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,799
is probably a best seller. And they are just the

236
00:13:38,759 --> 00:13:41,960
entire journalistic establishment, from the people who give awards, to

237
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,679
the people who run those unions and so forth. In

238
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,000
all these institutions, none of them have had any reckoning

239
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,600
for the not for the Russia collusion thing, not for this.

240
00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:55,879
There's enough money there. There are enough viewers there siloed now,

241
00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:58,480
but there are enough of them and they can make

242
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:00,639
us angry and we talk about it, so that probably

243
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,600
gets the attention as well. Frankly, and I don't know

244
00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:03,440
how else to deal.

245
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:05,399
Speaker 2: With Well, there's nothing we can do to keep that

246
00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:08,200
book from being a number one best seller. There are

247
00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:11,799
a lot of dumb people in the United States, unfortunately,

248
00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:16,840
and even if you take CNN's very small audience and

249
00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:18,440
sell it to all of them, that makes it a

250
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,480
best seller. Okay, so what we can do it's just

251
00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:25,759
the same as the Russia collusion conspiracy theory. We couldn't

252
00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,360
keep that story from being believed by the vast majority

253
00:14:29,399 --> 00:14:32,519
of Democrats. They still believe it. They bitterly cling to

254
00:14:32,559 --> 00:14:35,799
it because Jake Tapper was willing to be the person

255
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,080
who spread that conspiracy theory. Knowingly. What we can do

256
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,600
is keep the rest of the country from falling for

257
00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:44,320
his lives. And so I do think it's important to

258
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,279
talk about it, call him out. It's not going to

259
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,360
keep him from sitting on huge piles of cash to

260
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,440
advance Democrat for his work advancing Democrat narratives. But at

261
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,600
least if the rest of the people no longer think

262
00:14:56,679 --> 00:14:58,639
like you said, oh, he can sometimes come off like

263
00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:00,879
a moderate or whatever. You had to be pretty stupid

264
00:15:00,919 --> 00:15:03,240
to think Jake Tapper is a moderate at this point,

265
00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:05,720
and so the percentage of people on the right who

266
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,480
think that is increasingly vanishingly small.

267
00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:11,519
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, no, I think he wants to appear

268
00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:13,840
as a moderate to the left actually, so that they're

269
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,759
watching and they say, oh wow, this guy's giving giving

270
00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:20,919
it to me straight from both sides. So for three

271
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,440
years after the fact, he'll come up and tell me

272
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,919
that Joe Biden's not okay, Well thanks for that, you know,

273
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,840
and it didn't matter. It's like ridiculous. But anyway, there's

274
00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:31,720
another aspect to the story. I think that is a

275
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:36,879
little undercovered. So the last part of the sub keep

276
00:15:36,919 --> 00:15:39,600
saying sub headline, subtitle of the book is and his

277
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:44,480
disastrous choice to run again. I've noticed something here now

278
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,120
that they because Joe Biden no longer matters to them.

279
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,399
And the day after the debate, I've said this also,

280
00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:53,720
all of them turned on him, not because if they

281
00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,720
had any kind of journalistic integrity or ethics. They turned

282
00:15:56,759 --> 00:15:58,440
on him because they saw that they might not be

283
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:01,080
able to beat Donald Trump and it someone else. That

284
00:16:01,159 --> 00:16:06,480
was also part of their political agenda. But anyway, now

285
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,480
they're scapegoating Biden for everything that bad that happened to

286
00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:14,120
the left. I think it's completely self delusional. The Democratic

287
00:16:14,159 --> 00:16:16,720
Party is polling is a historic lows right now, and

288
00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:20,360
it's not because of Biden's memory problems. You know, no

289
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:24,919
one forced every Democrat to vote for the Inflation Reduction Act.

290
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,039
No one forced them to walk around and call Republicans

291
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,039
fascist and not make a coherent argument about anything. No

292
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,639
one forced them to, you know, to make this kind

293
00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:38,039
of gender quackery that you know, central to their social policy.

294
00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:41,080
No one asked them to, you know, open the borders

295
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:42,960
and so on. I mean, these things all matter, but

296
00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:46,200
more than that, who is going to So let's say

297
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,240
Joe Biden says I'm not going to run right in

298
00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:50,480
twenty twenty two, who's going to be the candidate. It's

299
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,840
going to be Kamala Harris. That she's in the White House,

300
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:55,600
she's ensconced there. She's not stepping aside for anyone. She

301
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,679
was going to be the candidate. And the idea that

302
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:03,279
she needed more time is insane. After initially being you know,

303
00:17:03,399 --> 00:17:05,960
seeing a jolt in the polls, she became less and

304
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,279
less popular the more people heard her. She didn't need

305
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,440
less she needed she didn't need more time, She needed

306
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,519
a less time the more the public herd or the

307
00:17:13,519 --> 00:17:16,119
more they disliked her. She did not lose because of

308
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,240
Joe Biden. I think Joe Biden would have done done

309
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,200
just as well frankly as she did. But anyway, so

310
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,480
they escapegoating him. I see all these former Obama people,

311
00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:28,359
everyone just scapegoating him for everything that's wrong with the

312
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,319
Democratic Party. I think that's a delusional. Part of the

313
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,799
problem is also that they lie to the American people

314
00:17:33,839 --> 00:17:36,519
about Biden, and that makes them less trustworthy. For instance,

315
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,519
in this New Yorker piece, Chuck Schumer says that he

316
00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:43,319
would talk to Biden and Biden would forget who he

317
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,759
was talking to her, why he was calling. Right, But

318
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,240
I looked it up two days before the debate, Right,

319
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,519
Chuck Schumer said he's fine, sharper than he's been in years.

320
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,079
All this right wing propaganda that his mental acuity has

321
00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,319
declined is wrong. So he is a liar, right, and

322
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,240
that's part of it, But it's not the only thing anyway.

323
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,759
I just wanted to mention that part. I know.

324
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,279
Speaker 2: I think a big part of this media reputation rescue

325
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:14,720
operation is also about cope for the Democrats. Now, Democrats

326
00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:17,519
will always do fine. I mean, even as badly as

327
00:18:17,599 --> 00:18:22,160
Kamala lost, they still have tens of millions of loyal

328
00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:25,000
voters who are very motivated to come out in the midterms,

329
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,319
and un and less Republicans start giving people a reason

330
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,200
to vote for them, they will likely win control of

331
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,559
the House back and make it in roads, like they're

332
00:18:35,599 --> 00:18:40,079
not a dead party. But I think this mental acuity

333
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,319
storyline is cope for them not to recognize what you

334
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:48,000
just said. Their policies are very unpopular with normal Americans.

335
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,000
You have to be part of their constituent interest groups

336
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:57,000
government employees, union, members of the teacher union member type

337
00:18:57,039 --> 00:19:00,759
people in order to be voting for them at this

338
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:01,640
late date.

339
00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:08,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, once the once the sort of identity politics runs out,

340
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,240
which it did slightly with Hispanic voters and with Black voters.

341
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,119
This lesson with Jewish voters, this last time their whole

342
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,880
they can't win a national election then, Like Donald Trump's

343
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,440
not very popular, but he is much more popular than Democrats,

344
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,480
and that is all that matters in politics, right, go on.

345
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 2: This is a little side note, but on identity politics.

346
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,319
I was trying to figure out how many gay people

347
00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:34,839
voted for Donald Trump or how many gay people voted

348
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:38,519
for the Republican candidate over time, and it's very hard

349
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:42,240
to parse any data that's out there because the polling

350
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:49,680
now groups lesbians and gays with buy transgender, queer, like

351
00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:53,079
all of it together, and as you have an entire

352
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,880
generation of people that are identifying as gender queer and

353
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,400
all voting Democrat. It's kind of hard to see if

354
00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:02,720
there are changes over time. It kind of looks like

355
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,839
there aren't changes. But I suspect there are because more

356
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:12,759
people are identifying in the b t QIA plus category

357
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,640
in the younger generations. But I'm not sure.

358
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,279
Speaker 1: Sorry that I mean no, no, I mean I think

359
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:21,559
I've tried to look at that kind of data myself.

360
00:20:21,799 --> 00:20:24,200
I don't really trust it at all, because self identification

361
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,839
is a weird thing, and who's identifying by your sexual

362
00:20:27,839 --> 00:20:30,160
habits is a very weird way to go about life

363
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,599
in my view, right, I mean, I don't really get it.

364
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,599
Speaker 3: People are able to put Gucci on layaway. Watched Out

365
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,640
on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every Day Chris

366
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,440
helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and

367
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,720
how it affects your wallet. Luxury brand Gucci has partnered

368
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,480
with a firm to offer tailored monthly payments for buy now,

369
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,720
pay later. If you can't afford Gucci, that's okay, but

370
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,279
don't do this. This won't end well. Whether it's happening

371
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:01,799
in DC or on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially.

372
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 1: Be informed.

373
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,519
Speaker 3: Check out the Watchdowt on Wall Street podcast with Chris

374
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,559
Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

375
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: All right, so let's move on now to Donald Trump's

376
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:23,799
trip to the Middle East this week. He is bypassing

377
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,440
his rubodies going to he was in Saudi Arabia. I'm

378
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,319
not sure if he's in Qatar yet, but he gave

379
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,640
a speech in Riod. Well, actually, let me take a

380
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,920
step back and say that before he left, the United

381
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,000
States had helped I don't have his name in front

382
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:45,759
of me get, you know, to procure the release of

383
00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:50,880
the last American hostage. Obviously he's dual citizenship. I think

384
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,599
who's held for like five hundred and thirty days through Katar?

385
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,400
And you're laughing because how do you printounce it?

386
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 2: Well? No, I like that you say Qatar, it's I

387
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:09,240
believe cutter. I was on Outnumbered yesterday on Fox and

388
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:12,440
there was a word. I can't remember which word it was,

389
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,960
but Emily Compangna was telling us how to pronounce it correctly,

390
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,559
and I was like, I'm just going to stick with

391
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:21,240
my American pronunciation because I get so annoyed at how

392
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:24,960
we have words that we just say consistently for decades,

393
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,799
and then one day everyone says, no, the actual way

394
00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:30,160
you say it, like if you're a local is such

395
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,440
and such. It's like, I'm not a local. I'm an

396
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,720
American and I've been saying Kiev for my entire lifetime.

397
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,839
I don't need to say Kiev now. But it kind

398
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:40,480
of they work on you and then and then you

399
00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:44,000
start changing. But yeah, I said Katar for years, but

400
00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:50,279
then was corrected many times on again at Fox where

401
00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:51,079
they're like, it's cutter.

402
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,079
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say cutter because I was going

403
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,480
through life fine saying Katar. My whole life now was

404
00:22:57,519 --> 00:22:59,599
sun on TV they started saying cutter. I don't really

405
00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:03,440
change it up. Yeah, I don't understand why some places

406
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,720
and names have to be pronounced in the accent of

407
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:09,079
the of the country right, but others don't. Like, for instance,

408
00:23:09,079 --> 00:23:12,039
I'll give you an example Hungary. Right, it's a country

409
00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:14,319
that we call Hungary. It's not called Hungary and Hungarian,

410
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,519
it's called Mudjar or sag like no one around here

411
00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:18,759
as its demand, no one demands you say it the

412
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:21,599
Hungarian way. Why do I have to pronounce like Spanish

413
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,400
words with the little like rolling ours and accents and

414
00:23:24,519 --> 00:23:27,519
just not into it. I don't know what I was

415
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:34,000
talking about those Uh Okay, so guitar helped now helped

416
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,079
get the release of his hostage. Now, I I'm not

417
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,799
a fan of that country. I think it's a terror

418
00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:43,359
sporting state. I realize that we need it again. I

419
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,000
don't care who we deal with as long as it

420
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:49,119
helps the American people. But they are kind of I

421
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,440
think about the emrror there in the country there as

422
00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:54,079
one might talk about the mafia. They're kind of in

423
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,039
like in the protection racket, you know what I mean.

424
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,240
They fund hamas so that can take hostages and then

425
00:23:59,319 --> 00:24:03,119
they swoop in and to help you get the release

426
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,599
of those hostages. They play both sides on virtually everything.

427
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:08,880
So what do you think of his trip?

428
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:11,759
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know a ton about the trip, but

429
00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:15,200
I did listen to the speech and I thought that

430
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:19,640
it was a super interesting, well done speech talking about

431
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,160
his approach to foreign policy. It was a great encapsulation

432
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:25,279
of what he did during the first term and also

433
00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:27,880
what he's trying to do in this second term. So

434
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,559
he is at this economic summit, and first off, you

435
00:24:31,599 --> 00:24:34,680
know this is speaking of you know, bad countries or

436
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,039
whatever countries with problems. Saudi Arabia known for harboring or

437
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:44,599
known for cultivating terrorists. Obviously, we had so many of

438
00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:48,519
the nine to eleven hijacker terrorists being from Saudi Arabia,

439
00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:52,480
and they have very different ideas about human rights than

440
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,599
we do and natural rights and all that. But it's

441
00:24:56,759 --> 00:25:01,240
a beautiful country. It's a very wealthy country tree and

442
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:07,119
he Trump was very well received in this country. He

443
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:14,440
clearly just gets along with the Saudi family. And partly

444
00:25:14,519 --> 00:25:18,680
that's related to business reasons. It's also related to the

445
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:23,119
Trump approach where Obama and Biden very much tried to

446
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,640
make Iran be the big powerful force in the Middle East,

447
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,400
and Trump pivoted away from that into making Saudi Arabia

448
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:36,960
kind of the big daddy of that region. And it's

449
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,200
for peace and prosperity reasons. He thinks that's much more

450
00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:43,839
lightly to align all the countries against Iran, which seeks

451
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,480
if you listen to what the Iranians say, they seek

452
00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:52,720
the destruction of Israel. They went death to America. And

453
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,960
Trump was painting a picture, a different picture, which was

454
00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:58,319
we could actually all get along, we could have peace

455
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:02,599
and prosperity. And if you don't we can certainly be

456
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:04,880
tough with you as well. But he had some really

457
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,279
good lines where he was talking about how the so

458
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:15,559
called nation builders had wrecked more nations than they had built,

459
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,960
and that the interventionists kept intervening in complex societies that

460
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,400
they did not understand.

461
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: So it was a.

462
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 2: Repudiation of this model that both parties were into, of

463
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,640
intervening in the Middle East, purporting to build nations there,

464
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:37,480
spending unbelievable amounts of American money and lives and failing,

465
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,440
And it was saying we're moving away from that, We're

466
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,759
not doing that anymore. And so I think it was

467
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:47,680
a very important speech and very well received, and a

468
00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:53,559
clear renunciation of the absolutely insane foreign policy approach that

469
00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:56,799
we began taking at the end of the Clinton era

470
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,599
and up until the Trump era.

471
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't like the speech at all. I mean,

472
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,000
I'm happy to find something to disagree with you on.

473
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:09,319
I felt like I was written by some Claremont, you know, isolationists.

474
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,119
It had nothing to do with.

475
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:13,279
Speaker 2: What you know. You don't know. There are no there are, no,

476
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:15,799
there are isolationists. He's in Saudi Arabia.

477
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: I didn't say you are. I didn't say I don't

478
00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:20,440
think he is, actually, But the idea, why is he

479
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,880
talking about neocons? There's no neocons and what No one

480
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,880
wants to invade any place. No one wants to build

481
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,799
any nation up, No one wants to do any of them.

482
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:30,880
He's still talking about the Aughts. Who wants to what

483
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,720
country do we want to invade and nation build?

484
00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 2: Which one did he did he talk about neo.

485
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: Kons, Yeah, you mentioned neocons. He mentioned interventionists and so on.

486
00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:43,599
He's an interventionist too in a way. I mean he's

487
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,720
telling you're on what to do. But also I just

488
00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:49,759
don't see what it had to do with what was

489
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:54,039
what's going on at all. And I will say this though,

490
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,079
I'm very happy that he's building stronger ties to Saudi Arabia.

491
00:27:57,079 --> 00:27:59,039
I think those people are gangsters over there, but at

492
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,599
least there are friends in many ways. And obviously he

493
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:06,720
is building a coalition that will oppose Iran, which to

494
00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:09,680
me is incredibly important. I do worry actually about this

495
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,960
administration and some of the people that are in there,

496
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,240
that they are going to give Iran an Obama type deal,

497
00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:18,119
and I hope that's not the case. The President of

498
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,200
the United States doesn't say that. I like what he

499
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,440
says about Iran.

500
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: All hold on, there's one mention of the word neocon,

501
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,319
and I'd like to read it to you in contexts

502
00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:33,319
and have you react to it. He talks about how

503
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,960
they're all this great economic development in places like Dubai

504
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,240
and Abu Dhabi. Deva Muscat says, the transformations have been

505
00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:45,720
unbelievably remarkable before our eyes. A new generation of leaders

506
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:48,880
is transcending the ancient conflicts of tired divisions of the

507
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,640
past and forging a future where the Middle East is

508
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:57,319
defined by commerce not chaos, where it exports technology not terrorism,

509
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,039
and where people of different nations, religions, and creeds are

510
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:04,720
building cities together, not bombing each other out of existence.

511
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,119
We don't want that, and it's crucial for the wider

512
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,119
world to note this great transformation has not come from

513
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,359
Western intervention noise or flying people in beautiful planes giving

514
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:18,799
you lectures on how to live and how to govern

515
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:22,200
your own affairs. No, the gleaming marvels of Riyad and

516
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:27,480
Abu Dhabi were not created by the so called nation builders, neocons,

517
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,960
or liberal nonprofits like those who spent trillions and trillions

518
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,359
of dollars failing to develop, of all bagdads, so many

519
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,039
other cities.

520
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:40,079
Speaker 1: So you don't like that, it's a complete straw man.

521
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,720
First of all, Saudi Arabia, none of the Gulf States

522
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:46,640
have ever exported any technology anywhere in their whole entire existence.

523
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,440
They have invented zero things, zero things. They have they're

524
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,079
on oil. Ninety five percent of their workforce is foreign.

525
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,079
Those people build things, they use American technology, European know how,

526
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:01,960
Western know how. No, that's A and B. Most of

527
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,559
these countries still have like Qatar has a ten year

528
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,440
sentence for proselytizing Christianity. I do. I am not a

529
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,880
moral relativist. I think these places are horrible. I don't

530
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,880
think there's anything wrong with saying that lashing a woman

531
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,240
in public, as they do in Saudi Arabia is problematic.

532
00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:21,519
I'm sorry, I think that's fine to say. That's another thing.

533
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,200
And see what does any of this have to do

534
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,839
with the Gulf States. No one has ever bombed Saudi

535
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,480
Arabia or Abu Dhabi or Qatar or any of that.

536
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:34,279
They have not been in a war. That's my problem

537
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:36,079
with this speech. It doesn't seem to be based in

538
00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:39,839
any kind of reality. I don't know. I don't even

539
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:41,480
know what else to say. I'm happy what he's doing

540
00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:43,240
with Iran, and I get that the President of the

541
00:30:43,359 --> 00:30:45,000
United States is going to go there and he's going

542
00:30:45,039 --> 00:30:47,720
to praise those countries. It's fine. George Bush used to

543
00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:51,480
walk around holding the Sheikh's hand, right, I mean, that's

544
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:55,000
all fine. But this is just revisionist history. No one

545
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:58,000
ever nation built, I mean ever, but in recent times,

546
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:00,240
no one was nation building in Saudi Arabia, any of

547
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,759
the Gulf states. The only thing we did was defend

548
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:04,680
Kuwait from Iraq. That's what we did.

549
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:09,759
Speaker 2: Okay, So I don't remember what year it was, but

550
00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:14,519
I was there two thousand and four. AI had its

551
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:20,519
irving Crystal dinner and Charles Krauthammer gave the speech, and

552
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:25,440
it's a landmark speech. It became the unifying speech of

553
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:29,599
the of the people who wanted to do war in

554
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,079
the Middle East. And I forget what the name it

555
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,400
is called democratic realism, but he lays out a case

556
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:41,119
for so. First of all, he says, the realists say

557
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,480
we shouldn't intervene in the Middle East, and maybe they

558
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,240
will be proven to be right. But how do we

559
00:31:47,359 --> 00:31:50,240
know if we do not try? And so he proposes

560
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:58,640
a different school called democratic globalism, and he says it

561
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,559
has in this decade rallied the school of thought, has

562
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,839
rallied the American people to struggle over values. It seeks

563
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,599
to vindicate the American idea by making the spread of democracy,

564
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:14,240
the success of liberty, the ends and means of American

565
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,720
foreign policy. He says, I support that, I applaud that,

566
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:21,359
but I believe it must be tempered in its universalistic

567
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:27,640
aspirations and rhetoric from a democratic globalism to a democratic realism.

568
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:30,880
So he says, he lugs this idea of spreading democracy

569
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:32,839
across the whole world, except that you have to be

570
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,519
realistic and it can't be spread across the whole world.

571
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:41,400
He says, it must be targeted, focused and limited. We

572
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,359
are friends to all, but we come ashore only where

573
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,400
it really counts. This is his limiting principle. It always

574
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,119
cracks me up. He says, where it counts today is

575
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:58,160
that Islamic crescent stretching from North Africa to Afghanistan. So

576
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,359
you say, like, who's doing this well?

577
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: That you're talking about a speech from over twenty years.

578
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: Ago that perfectly encapsulates the views of a particular group

579
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,359
of people who are still operating.

580
00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:16,119
Speaker 1: I'm asking you who right now and what country do

581
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,319
we want? Who wants to invade? What country? And what

582
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,599
nation building do we want to participate in it? Right now? Today?

583
00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: I think there are there's a sector of people that

584
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:29,000
would like to remove the leader of Iran and replace

585
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:32,599
him with someone more to their fitting. So maybe you

586
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,640
maybe the answer is.

587
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: That's not being it because I want the Uranium people

588
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,119
not to be dictated over by a theocratic dictator. Doesn't

589
00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:42,200
make me a neocon. If I wanted to go there

590
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,519
and build democracy, I don't think it's going to work there, frankly,

591
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:47,680
But I just I don't think there's anything wrong with us.

592
00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:50,319
They undermine our interests all over the world. Wouldn't it

593
00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:51,960
be good to have a friend there? I mean, we've

594
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,599
been doing that for a long time, and I realize

595
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:54,920
now it's we have.

596
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:57,839
Speaker 2: Replaced the head of a country and had it work out.

597
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,799
Speaker 1: Well, you don't know what the counter history of any

598
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:04,839
of that is, That's what I'm saying. It's easy to no,

599
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:05,680
I don't.

600
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 2: If compare a moll margt Afi to what we're dealing

601
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,480
with now or combara Asaddam Hussein to what we're dealing

602
00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:12,800
with now, Like you can.

603
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,679
Speaker 1: See rock worse now than before for us?

604
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: Well, first off, think about how much money and time

605
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,039
was spent to create the situation now? Is it better

606
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,280
and is it better for Let's just take for example,

607
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,440
is it better for Jews, of which there used to

608
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,880
be a population in a rock? Is it better for

609
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,440
Christians where hundreds of thousands of them were killed? Like?

610
00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:37,280
Is it better for us? I don't think. I don't

611
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,719
think anyone thinks a Rock was a good adventure.

612
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 1: I think A Rock was a mistake. I think Iraq

613
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,960
was a mistake. I'm not defending that war. I mean

614
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,599
I supported it early and then I turned against it

615
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:51,400
because you know it wasn't working. Obviously a lot of

616
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,320
people did that, and it's easy to do that, but

617
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:57,199
it was a mistake. My point only is that I

618
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,000
don't know how things turn out. If Sodom whose Saints

619
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:01,840
Days or not. Maybe he's in a maybe he's in

620
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,679
a war with Iran, and in something more terrible happens,

621
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,519
I don't know. All I'm saying is that we don't

622
00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:09,480
know how these things turn out, and that's why. That's

623
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,920
why I'm not a neocon. I don't know that if

624
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,880
we go in somewhere and try to build democracy it's

625
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,239
going to work. It's never really worked, so I don't

626
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,840
even know why we're on this. My point is that

627
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,360
there's no I want to go back to my point.

628
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,679
There's no one in Washington right now. You're talking about

629
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,519
twenty year old speeches and a fail something that failed,

630
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:28,320
and I think most people there's no public support for

631
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,920
anything like that. There is no politician out there championing

632
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,119
neo conservatism right now. None.

633
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: Well, I actually you've convinced me pretty well that neocon

634
00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:41,280
is a bad phrase to use, just because it's not specific.

635
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:45,800
It's it can be viewed as a pejorative for a

636
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,960
certain type of people. I mean, a lot of people

637
00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:50,039
understand what we mean when we say neocon, but I

638
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:53,119
just prefer to say interventionist because I think that's a

639
00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:56,119
more accurate descriptor. In the same way that I think

640
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,679
if you want to insult people who don't want to

641
00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:02,920
be in in wars, I think a good insult is

642
00:36:03,199 --> 00:36:09,840
restrainer because they approach use of the military not from

643
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,280
the perspective of whether it's a good idea here or not,

644
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,760
but just always they're like, we're always going to want

645
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,119
to restrain, We're always going to want to limit the

646
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:23,079
use of the military. But isolationist isn't like a big

647
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,280
group of people there either. They're usually pretty happy to

648
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:32,360
have economic engagement with other people. They're not actual isolationists.

649
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,679
But anyway, if we want to look at where people

650
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,679
want to do some nation building and intervention, I think

651
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,480
Ukraine is a great example, and that has also not

652
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:45,719
that has also been an incredibly costly enterprise with as

653
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:51,119
per usual, no clear marks for success, no exit strategy.

654
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,400
It's a great example of how the foreign policy blob

655
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:57,199
thinks a war is good. Like it's such an obvious

656
00:36:57,199 --> 00:36:58,960
thing that I know all of our listeners figured out

657
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,519
twenty years ago. But once you realize that the people

658
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,480
in DC aren't looking to win wars, they're looking to

659
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:08,679
spend money in the complex that supports wars, it makes

660
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:11,199
sense why we never win them. Like the goal is

661
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,679
to have it last for as many years as possible

662
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,079
and to see the appropriations that come along with that.

663
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:17,800
And yeah, and they don't want to kill a bunch

664
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,760
of people, which also leads to less success in wars

665
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,880
for whatever. You know, however that works. But most of

666
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,480
the people in the foreign policy blob in DC, they

667
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:32,840
want entanglements that last a long time and that produce

668
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,760
a lot of money for the industries that they want

669
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,920
to go work in after they leave the government.

670
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's largely conspiratorial. I don't think that

671
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:43,039
George Bush or yeah, I do. I don't think. I

672
00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:45,760
don't think George Bush wanted Americans to die in Iraq.

673
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,360
I don't think that the Americans who ran the government

674
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,920
wanted Americans to die in Vietnam.

675
00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: Think that they don't want they want to limit casualties.

676
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:56,559
I literally just said that.

677
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: Also, but they want entanglements. I mean anyway, I don't

678
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,320
want to are you about that part of it. I

679
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,079
just want to say that this speech was aimed at

680
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:07,880
people who don't exist. They don't exist in DC right now.

681
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,920
I just don't think there are neo cons in DC,

682
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,800
and I don't think that his rendering of the Middle

683
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,440
East is accurate. On the other hand, I am happy

684
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:20,000
that he's in Saudi Arabia. I'm happy that he's pressuring Iran.

685
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,719
I'm happy that for the most part it seems for

686
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,519
now he's letting Israel do what it needs to do.

687
00:38:24,639 --> 00:38:27,119
Though post Trump populism, I think it's going to be

688
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,719
very bad for Israel. I just don't I think the

689
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,079
government is filled with people who don't see the upside

690
00:38:33,119 --> 00:38:36,360
of having them as our top ally there. And I

691
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,239
don't know. Those are my impressions of the trip.

692
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: Okay. So the other thing I thought was interesting is

693
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,320
that the you know, speaking of terrorists, the head of

694
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,400
the new president of Syria, oh yeah, is visiting. And

695
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:49,920
I think that's a good sign because if you want

696
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,039
to triangulate away from Iran being a controlling agent in

697
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:56,639
the region, if we could get Syria to see some

698
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,880
economic opportunity by moving away from Iran, that would be

699
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,280
or some you know, some help by moving away from Horan.

700
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,119
That also isolates Russia and its role there. So I

701
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,599
like seeing all that, and I also like just having

702
00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:15,800
this approach of seeing how trade and economic development with

703
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:21,639
another country leads to peace and prosperity, and having that

704
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:26,440
be the approach rather than heavy military spending, being like

705
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:31,039
the forward operating way that we approach things. And Saudi

706
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:33,639
Arabia still has not signed on to the Abraham Accords,

707
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:35,880
and that's one of the things that Trump is trying

708
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,400
to accomplish there too, which is good.

709
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: Well, I assume that Saudis, who don't very much care

710
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,360
about Palestinians at all, or waiting for that situation to,

711
00:39:47,559 --> 00:39:50,320
you know, figure itself out, and then they probably would,

712
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,760
but I don't know who knows. It's the thing about

713
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,559
one thing about ISRAELI I think people don't really realize

714
00:39:56,599 --> 00:39:58,599
in the Middle East right now because I read news

715
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,440
reports all the time and talking about Arab Israel wars.

716
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,440
In this Israel's at peace with literally every Gulf nation.

717
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,039
The Israelis are tourists in Abu Dhabi all the time,

718
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,480
you know what I mean. They are at peace with Egypt,

719
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:13,039
they are at peace with Jordan, and they are a

720
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:16,599
peace with everyone except the Palestinians there. And once that

721
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,559
situation is somehow resolved, you know, never be fully resolved.

722
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,440
I think you have peace there. What do you make

723
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,360
of him not visiting Israel? Do you think that there's

724
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,440
something behind that that's important or or not.

725
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: I don't worry about Trump's posture toward Israel, but I

726
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,000
do think there may be something behind it. And so

727
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,440
when you're trying to reach out to Syria and get

728
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,719
them to move away from Iran, and you're trying to

729
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,519
focus on the use of trade and economics as a

730
00:40:56,559 --> 00:40:58,719
way to bring peace to the region. You don't want

731
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:02,360
to complicate that message too much. And so Netnyahu just

732
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,039
had a visit here quite recently. There's not like a

733
00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:10,119
need for indust really visit right now, and so I

734
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:14,920
think it was just viewed as not the purpose of

735
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,079
the trip and could have confused the message of the trip.

736
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,199
But I also say that in part because I don't

737
00:41:21,199 --> 00:41:24,840
really worry about his perspective. I think he understands Aron

738
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,360
as a threat. I also think he understands that, yes,

739
00:41:28,519 --> 00:41:31,840
Israel is a great ally, and it's an important ally

740
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:36,039
in that region, but their national interest is not always

741
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:38,960
the same as our national interests, and just having that

742
00:41:39,039 --> 00:41:41,719
be very clear for people and understanding the separation of

743
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,000
those two things is not bad.

744
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:51,119
Speaker 1: Finally, on the Middle East, there's this issue of Qatar

745
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:58,920
gifting a Boeing seven four seven to the president to

746
00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:03,000
retro I guess into a air Force one because the

747
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,519
Air Force one has as old. I think it's from

748
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:10,679
the eighties. The Boeing was supposed to make a new one.

749
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,920
It is way behind schedule. It's its own I think

750
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,920
owing podcasts talk about Boeing's problems.

751
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,039
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know, I don't like. I actually don't

752
00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:25,400
have a major problem with countries giving gifts to each other,

753
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,480
but what those gifts are is important. And I recognize

754
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,280
that this plane is American made, that it was made

755
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,400
in fact by Boeing, and that it's owned by Katar,

756
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,599
but it doesn't make it. You know that it was

757
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:42,119
built in America. So I'm not like totally freaked out

758
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:45,800
about it. But anytime another country gives you something like

759
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:48,840
and yeah, of course it would be retrofitted and everything,

760
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,039
but you still worry about what kind of surveillance would

761
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:54,519
be in the plane that would be a national security

762
00:42:54,559 --> 00:42:58,360
threat or it was just like the nature of a

763
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,920
gift of that size. I am the most concerned about

764
00:43:03,079 --> 00:43:07,920
what you said about Boeing being so far behind schedule

765
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,400
and so far over budget with the next Air Force one.

766
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,440
I mean, it was supposed to be delivered already. They

767
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:19,000
aren't expecting to have it done for another ten years

768
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,880
at this point, and what was already a three point

769
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,239
nine billion dollar project for a single plane is already

770
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,840
over budget. That's that's a national security crisis. And to

771
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,800
have to rely on something from another country because our

772
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,519
own military industrial complex is failing at even the stuff

773
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:42,480
that it's supposed to be doing is it's bad news. Indeed.

774
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:47,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Boeing is a rent failed or rent sinking company. At

775
00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:49,360
this point, They've got to have to get you know,

776
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,400
the unions that they have are constantly shutting them down there.

777
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,159
Most I think they're headquarters aren't Chicago maybe, but they're

778
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,639
obviously in Washington, which is a very tough state to

779
00:43:59,679 --> 00:44:02,440
do business and for people manufacturers, So they should get

780
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,039
out of there and move to the South or something.

781
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:06,039
I mean, it's ridiculous that you can't build a plane

782
00:44:06,039 --> 00:44:08,239
for the president. You figure the president puts an order in,

783
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:14,199
you get that done first, right. But for me, it's terrible.

784
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,880
It's a terrible thing to take this plane from that country.

785
00:44:17,639 --> 00:44:21,800
For I think it the perception of corruption that could

786
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,159
exist Trump family doing business there. I'm not saying it's corrupt,

787
00:44:25,159 --> 00:44:27,239
but I'm just saying that it's not the type of

788
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,159
country you do this with. You know, Pam Bondi's judging

789
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:33,639
the legality of it. She was a she was a

790
00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:36,559
lobbyist for Katar, you know, Steve Witcoff or whatever he's were,

791
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:38,599
you know, make tons of money with Qatar. It's just

792
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:44,320
not a country that we should allow to for other reason,

793
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,480
moral reasons as well, allow them to give give the

794
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,239
president a gift in this way. It's just it's not necessary.

795
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,639
Speaker 2: I don't like the way people say give the president

796
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:59,360
a gift, Like it's, yes, the president is the person

797
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,239
who flies around Air Force one, but it's a gift

798
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:02,559
to the country.

799
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 1: Right, Not really though, because I'm sorry, people have compared

800
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,599
it to like the French gave us the Statue of Liberty. Yeah,

801
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:12,119
that's to the people. Congress said it was okay, but

802
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,880
this actually is only Trump's going to end up using it.

803
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,480
It has to go. The ownership of it has to be,

804
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:19,880
according to BONDI has to be transferred to the Presidential

805
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,840
libr Trump's Presidential Library after his own term. It's just

806
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,559
it's just it's it's not it's not necessary, you know, but.

807
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:33,039
Speaker 2: Even that, like it's a nonprofit group that runs the

808
00:45:33,079 --> 00:45:36,400
Presidential Library gets it, Like, I don't like I already

809
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,360
don't like it, but I just think there's a precision

810
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,320
to how we could talk about it. It's not like

811
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,119
a personal gift to Donald Trump.

812
00:45:43,079 --> 00:45:45,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seems like it is in the sense

813
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:47,199
that they're trying to buy favor with the president in

814
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,440
some way, right. I mean, that's what the perception for

815
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,039
of my perception of this is. And they're doing it

816
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:55,159
to buy favor. I don't care if it was Biden

817
00:45:55,199 --> 00:45:57,239
it and I imagine Biden took a plane from another country.

818
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,559
Speaker 2: You're pretty upset, right, people, But mostly because, like I said,

819
00:46:00,559 --> 00:46:03,480
I don't like I just work. You know, they can

820
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:05,599
be crafty in what they put in the plane that

821
00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:09,159
isn't discovered or something, and I worry about our ability

822
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:10,480
to discover it too.

823
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,039
Speaker 1: Okay, you want to talk about culture, let's do it.

824
00:46:18,559 --> 00:46:21,320
What you do? Did you watch anything I did?

825
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,559
Speaker 2: With Mark? We watched something new on Netflix, which is

826
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:32,880
like an eight part thing called The Four Seasons with

827
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:39,360
Tina Fey and a bunch of other people, and I

828
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,440
started off loving it, and then by the end I

829
00:46:41,519 --> 00:46:45,400
was pretty disappointed in it. But it's a remake from

830
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,320
a movie made I want to say, in the eighties

831
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:53,840
or something I don't know by Alan Alda about a

832
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,519
group of friends and them just like going through Stages

833
00:46:56,559 --> 00:46:59,079
of life where one of the friends divorces his wife

834
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:03,760
who the other cups are friends with, and that had

835
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,840
Carol Burnett and and I love Carol Burnette. She reminds

836
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,199
me so much of my mother, and I love my mom.

837
00:47:10,639 --> 00:47:15,239
And I also watched that because I was traveling, and

838
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,119
I was like, I'm gonna check that out. And I

839
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:18,199
also didn't love that.

840
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 1: I think.

841
00:47:21,519 --> 00:47:25,079
Speaker 2: My problem is both things are trying to find meaning

842
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,519
in pretty shallow friendships, and that is not a great

843
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,599
place to find a deep level of meaning. I mean,

844
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,000
true friendship, deep friendship is a great place to find meaning.

845
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,719
But I didn't really ever think these were genuine or

846
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,480
true deep friendships in either the movie or the TV series.

847
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:46,400
Have you seen one or both of these?

848
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,079
Speaker 1: When I was a young when I was a young tye,

849
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:51,800
when as a tyke, I had our family had gotten

850
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:55,840
HBO right and HBO in those days, they would be

851
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,480
there was nothing on it, and at eight they would

852
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,280
play a movie and at ten they would place something

853
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,440
a movie or boxing or special whatever. So when I

854
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,800
was eleven, I had that and this came on. It

855
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,599
was like one of the first adult movies I'd ever watched.

856
00:48:08,639 --> 00:48:11,360
The Four Seasons with Alan Alda, so I was quite

857
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,400
taken with it. I'm like, because you know, you're a kid,

858
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,920
and these are like there's emotions, there's a divorce, there's

859
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,920
a younger woman comes in, Like I'm like, well, what's

860
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,679
going on here? So I remember that movie fondly because

861
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,639
it was one of the first kind of like adult movies.

862
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:24,840
I saw Carol bren I was like, oh, that's Carol Burnette,

863
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,079
like I'd never seen her in like a serious role.

864
00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:29,920
Or you know, there's Alan Alda, and I thought it

865
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,400
was My memories of it are good, but I probably

866
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,840
haven't seen this movie literally in like forty years. So

867
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,039
when I saw the new one came out, I thought

868
00:48:39,039 --> 00:48:40,880
it was a movie. But it's a TV show, huh

869
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,119
and has Steve Carrell in it, right, So I'll probably

870
00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:48,480
watch it, but my hopes I didn't have high hopes

871
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,440
for it, and what you're saying seems like it's just.

872
00:48:50,519 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: Meh, I don't know. And I really like Tina Fey

873
00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:56,800
and the guy who plays her husband, who's same I'm

874
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,760
forgetting he was. He's a good comedian I'm talking about

875
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:01,119
come on.

876
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: No. I tried to remember Will Forte Oh, yeah, he's funny.

877
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,280
He was he was on a show I like called

878
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,320
The Last Man on Earth.

879
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's good, you know. And they've updated they've

880
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,880
updated it in different ways. So one of the couples

881
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,840
is a gay couple, and that is also undercooked. Like

882
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,639
they sort of like lightheartedly talk about how when you're

883
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:31,840
in a gay couple, it's totally open and you have

884
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,199
sex with other men, and it's like, well, that seems

885
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,800
like yet another example of how this friend dynamic wouldn't

886
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,239
totally relate to each other.

887
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,119
Speaker 1: Although we want to feel like, don't you feel like

888
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,000
in a lot of movies they just caricature gay people

889
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:48,039
in a really kind of like one dimensional way.

890
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 2: The problem with that is like the caricature part, it's

891
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,760
the lack of critical thinking related to it too. So

892
00:49:55,239 --> 00:50:01,039
absolutely it's true that in a sexual relationship there are

893
00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:05,440
different norms associated with them, and when it's a male

894
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:12,320
female sexual relationship, the fidelity is key because when you

895
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,800
have sex with other people, babies are made, and that

896
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,760
creates a really difficult situation for the family when you're

897
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,719
having kids by different women, or you don't know who

898
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,920
the father of your child is. When you are in

899
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,159
a gay male relationship. A. Yes, men tend to have

900
00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:32,679
a higher sex drive than women, not always, but frequently,

901
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:35,119
and so you have a high level of sex drive,

902
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,960
none of the risks associated with having a child with

903
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:43,400
someone else, of course, all sorts of other risks related

904
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,079
to sexually transmitted diseases. And then with lesbianism you have

905
00:50:47,159 --> 00:50:50,639
like a much lower sex drive and you know, higher

906
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:53,719
emotional integl Like there's men and women are different and

907
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:56,760
and it plays out in the sexual dynamics. I think

908
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,000
the big problem is we don't talk honestly about those dynamics,

909
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:02,880
particularly as it relates to family formation or how it

910
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,760
changes the norm for all marriage when you redefine marriage

911
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,960
to include either same sex couples or other groupings.

912
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: Glad I brought that up. I will watch it and

913
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,920
I will report back to you.

914
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you watch well? I do have other stuff.

915
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:26,159
Should I finish or do you want to go?

916
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: We can go back and forth, I guess, because I

917
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,760
only have one. Actually, I watched the show I didn't

918
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,000
think I would enjoy, but I quite did for the

919
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:39,360
most part called Landman with your favorite actor Billy Bob

920
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,760
Thornton in it. That other show, Yeah, I saw.

921
00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: Like one scene from it that's been going around but okay.

922
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,519
Speaker 1: So it's good about the windmills or whatever. The funny

923
00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:51,280
thing about that scene is that I think it's meant

924
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,239
to upset both sides because he goes on about how

925
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,239
windmills are not are not good for the environment. But

926
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,920
then at the end he says we're going to run

927
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,760
out of oil, which is not true. I mean maybe

928
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,920
in the sort of cosmic sense, we will run out

929
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,480
of oil. But I liked it. It happens, it's in

930
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:12,559
Middle and Texas, it's about the oil, it's about the

931
00:52:12,599 --> 00:52:15,840
oil business. I don't know much about the oil business

932
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,760
in that way, so I don't know how much of

933
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,719
it is realistic or not. But he plays a sort

934
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,840
of like fixer who deals with all the issues that

935
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,199
go on independent oil company, not one of the big ones.

936
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:32,400
The booms, the bus the people in the culture and

937
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,119
stuff like that. And I don't know, I find it interesting.

938
00:52:35,159 --> 00:52:37,119
I mean, it's kind of it's it's got a kind

939
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:39,840
of soap opera element to it that I don't I

940
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,199
never want. What's the show with Kevin Costner everyone loves?

941
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never got into it. It seems like a

942
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:46,519
soap opera, and I don't do soap operas.

943
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is the same writer. I think his

944
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:53,440
name's Taylor Sheridan. Yeah, and it has it has a

945
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,000
bit of that for sure. It has Billy Bob Thornton,

946
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:59,519
Demi Moore is in it, John Hamm, isn't it.

947
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 2: I just thinking about how funny it is that many

948
00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:05,840
actors in the world you're surprised when you learn, oh,

949
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,880
that person's British, because they're in so many American show

950
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,320
sort of Billy Bob Thornton is the opposite of that.

951
00:53:12,679 --> 00:53:15,199
He is who he is with his with his accent,

952
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:19,639
and parts have to be written about around that fact,

953
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:22,239
like it'll be like, and now we get the story

954
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,159
about why he's from the South, even though he's, you know,

955
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,400
a New York lawyer or whatever. He is landman.

956
00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: He doesn't need that.

957
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 2: Because it's about the it's about the South anyway.

958
00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, West Texas, so he's you know, it

959
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,440
gives you a glimpse into like sort of the wealthier

960
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:44,159
people and also about the workers who make a lot

961
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:46,400
of money in a very dangerous job for a short

962
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,440
amount of time. I guess, and I guess it's a

963
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,079
soft recommend I have only watched like two episodes, so.

964
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 2: Okay, well keep us, yeah yeah, keep us updated.

965
00:53:57,159 --> 00:53:59,039
Speaker 1: Make sure I know runs on the edge of their

966
00:53:59,079 --> 00:54:05,199
seats on this. Okay, what else? So?

967
00:54:07,519 --> 00:54:11,159
Speaker 2: I also have been listening to the new Arcade Fire

968
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:16,519
album album they do, and I actually like ordered a

969
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,960
copy on vinyl before I even listened to it, which

970
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,480
I probably shouldn't have done. And I like to listen

971
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:26,000
to albums several times before I weigh in, and I've

972
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,079
only really listened to it twice. And there are parts

973
00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:32,360
I like about it and there are parts I don't

974
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:36,159
like about it. It's produced by Daniel Landlaw, who I

975
00:54:36,199 --> 00:54:39,480
really like, and you can hear his influence, but the

976
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:43,519
lyrics seem very much all tied up in Did you

977
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:49,719
know how the lead singer was having sexual relationships with fans?

978
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: No, I don't know anything about it. Well, I mean,

979
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:54,639
I know a little bit about what they are.

980
00:54:54,639 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 2: He got me too a few years ago, and people

981
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:01,840
were really angry about it, and and it seemed very immature,

982
00:55:02,039 --> 00:55:03,960
and then it also seemed to be a matter of

983
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,639
infidelity since he's married to that super hot chick in

984
00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:12,280
the band. I am not forgetting her name, but you know,

985
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,159
she seemed to be dealing with it fine, and the

986
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:17,400
bandmates seemed to be dealing with it fine. But the

987
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,960
fans are really upset, like he came.

988
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: Up I'm sorry, upset that he it was involved in

989
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,440
this thing, or upset that he was smeared by something.

990
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,519
Speaker 2: That he was involved and Okay, it's just weird being

991
00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:33,480
our age because we grew up with so much bad

992
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:37,079
behavior from musicians that I'm just totally neared to it,

993
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:39,400
Like I don't even notice. It's like, oh, he was

994
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:45,159
inappropriately having inappropriate sexual relationships with fans. Wow, put that

995
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,599
above the fold of the newspaper, like it's just exactly

996
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:51,599
what you expect of major rock stars. Sadly. And then

997
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,679
also though, I think in his case, he was viewed

998
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,559
as this feminist hero. They have very liberal politics, and

999
00:55:58,599 --> 00:56:02,360
so for him to be reading young fans so poorly

1000
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:05,360
and his wife poorly, it's just like something the fans

1001
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,039
can't get over. And so the reviews that I've been

1002
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:10,760
reading of the album are all like, he thinks he

1003
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,000
can get over this. He can't. You know, there will

1004
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:16,960
never be any forgiveness for this man, which seems unfair

1005
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,920
on the other hand, the lyrics all seem to be

1006
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,719
about how much this experience was bad for him, and

1007
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,400
that's really annoying to read about art to listen to.

1008
00:56:26,519 --> 00:56:28,760
I've never really been a lyrics person, but I just

1009
00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:32,360
if it's actually at the point where I'm thinking about it,

1010
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,159
it's not good. But having said all that, I kind

1011
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:39,440
of enjoy the music, so I'll keep listening to it.

1012
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: All right. Cool. Daniel lenn Wi's been around forever. He's

1013
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,639
produced so many people going back to like the eighties.

1014
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:49,960
I think probably that's nice.

1015
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:52,679
Speaker 2: One other thing is that I'm going Mark and I

1016
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:56,199
will be headed to Poland. Wow, you're in a little

1017
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:00,760
bit and I am trying to read up on that

1018
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,480
country to it's a work trip, but I'm trying to

1019
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,519
read up on that country and its history, particularly World

1020
00:57:08,599 --> 00:57:11,039
War two era history, so I can get the most

1021
00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:12,840
out of the trip. Have you been there before?

1022
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,679
Speaker 1: No, Okay, I have not. They have a very interesting

1023
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,199
history going back to when they were basically a little

1024
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:26,159
empire there in Europe, but they weren't so nice to

1025
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:27,239
my people in general.

1026
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's the purpose of the trip. We'll be visiting,

1027
00:57:30,559 --> 00:57:35,599
you know, Auschwitz and assorted other sites like that, so

1028
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:39,920
I'd never been able to stomach visiting sites like that.

1029
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,840
I've I've been to the Holocaust Museum in Israel, but

1030
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,840
that's like the extent of what I have been able

1031
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,840
to handle because I get very emotional about it. So

1032
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,960
I'm trying to prepare so I can handle it.

1033
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,199
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not. I don't do those things either. I

1034
00:57:56,239 --> 00:57:58,519
saw Schindler's List once. I would never watch it again.

1035
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:00,519
I don't watch documentaries so that I was young, I

1036
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:03,519
was bombarded with that stuff, and I think, just to

1037
00:58:03,519 --> 00:58:07,079
turn this really serious quickly, I think that the American

1038
00:58:07,159 --> 00:58:10,880
Jews are too tied to the victimhood of it, you

1039
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,280
know what I mean. And that's why I think Zionism

1040
00:58:14,639 --> 00:58:18,840
and Israel is a better, more positive, forward looking way

1041
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,039
for juice to go than to be constantly talking about

1042
00:58:21,039 --> 00:58:23,280
the Holocaust. I don't think there should be a Holocaust

1043
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,400
museum in Washington. I don't like it at all, But

1044
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,760
that's just a me thing. I guess. I love that

1045
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,320
you're going to Poland. I was tugging to my wife recently.

1046
00:58:32,519 --> 00:58:34,519
We're watching in the Amazing Race a little bit. Have

1047
00:58:34,559 --> 00:58:37,079
you ever seen the show? So I watch it because

1048
00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:39,760
they travel to these countries. I'm all about like off

1049
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,679
brand European countries, Like I don't really want to go

1050
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:45,760
to France or Italy. I want to go to like Bulgaria, Slovakia,

1051
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:47,880
you know what I mean. I want like those second

1052
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,239
third tier countries. Maybe Moldovia once the Socrainean thing is over.

1053
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:55,119
It's a little close anyway, that's a weird thing to

1054
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,440
talk about. So it's great and I hope you have

1055
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:01,519
a great time you no matter where you're going. We'll

1056
00:59:01,519 --> 00:59:04,960
be back next week. If you'd like to reach the show,

1057
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,000
you can do so at radio at the Federalist dot com.

1058
00:59:09,039 --> 00:59:12,119
Please do email us, and until next week, the Lovers

1059
00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:23,239
of Freedom and Anxious for the Frame stim