Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
we left off with Michael Thomas and his interview with
the OIG Inspectors. Question. All right, so let's say I
did Control Center or anyone else called the shoe on
August tenth, twenty nineteen, about Epstein's cell maate leaving or
the need for Epstein to have another cell mate assigned. Thomas. No,
that would have been done prior to my shift. Question. Okay,
but not during your shift, Thomas, not during the midnight. No,
that would have been done prior. And as you guys
can tell, this is a bit disjointed and Thomas is
being very very coy. Thomas, not during the midnight. No,
that would have been done prior. Question. All right, So,
being that you've been in the BOP since twenty seventeen, Thomas,
two thousand and seven. Question, Sorry and seven. That's what
I meant. I apologize in that Epstein was required to
have a cell mate after Reyes left on August ninth.
What should have happened? Who should have taken appropriate action?
Can you just kind of walk me through how that
process should have taken place, Thomas, I mean, by my knowledge,
like you said, from being in for work. If he
would have left, it would have been communicated to the
officers via R and D that somebody had left. Question,
and how would have R and D would have been
the first people to notify Thomas? Yes, R and D
would be Yeah. R and D would be the first
people to notify that an inmate has been released Thomas,
taken off count been released? Taken off count? Question? Okay?
And then who would R and D contact Thomas? So
R and D would contact both control center and he
gets cut off the lieutenant Thomas. Yeah. Question would they
at all contact the shoe or the place where the
inmate was being released from? Thomas? Yeah? Well, R and
D would contact Shoe and let them know that somebody
had been released. Mister redacted. So, in this case, Reyes
was released on August ninth, should have they called all three?
They should call the control center or R and D
should have contacted looks like Lieutenant redacted or potentially redacted,
as well as control center and the Shoe staff, mister Thomas.
In a perfect world, R and D, We'll call Lieutenant's office,
call control and call the Shoe. I'm sure somebody had
to call the Shoe and let them know that their
base count had changed. Question Okay, Thomas. One way or another,
somebody called control to let them know that the base
count had changed. Who did they call? I don't know,
but during that because the courts closed at eight question
Okay Thomas, at the latest. Yeah, I believe it's eight pm,
So somebody called and let them know. R and D
got the first call that there would be somebody gone
off your count? Question Okay, So it wouldn't be like
they called the opsolueutenant and the oppsoluetenant would then call
the Shoe. R and D typically would actually call all
three Thomas. Usually, but I have been when R and
D had called all three. I've been here when the
Control center have called the Shoe and let them know, Yo,
your base count has changed. Such and such has been
released or such a bunch has been moved to a
different housing unit. Yeah. Question okay Thomas. But usually you
get a call either from R and D or control center.
Question not the oppsolutenant, Thomas. I mean I've been in
when the lieutenant called, but not not typically the obsolutenant.
Question all right, So it's typically control center Thomas, Typically
your control center or R and D will call and
let you know that their base count have changed. Question,
and you've been present when that's actually taking place? Thomas, Yeah,
I've been present when that's taken place. Question in the
shoe Thomas, Yeah, I've been present in the shoe when
it's taken place. Question Okay, so how soon after so
Epstein is required to have a cell mate? How soon
after Rey's departure, should have Epstein been assigned to cell mate? Thomas? Well,
that comes from the Shoe lieutenant and from operations and
the staff member that had to be there. Question, So,
who who had the responsibility to fill Epstein's cell mate requirement?
Who had the responsibility to place Epstein with a new
cell mate? Thomas, I don't know off hand. I don't
know off hand who had the responsibility, But it had
to come from either the Shoe lieutenant, I would say first,
since he's a high profile, I would say from the
Shoe lieutenant. Question Okay, and were you We touched on
this before, but in this specific instance, were were you there? Thomas?
I wasn't there. Question, so would have you if you
were there? Would have been authorized to assign him a
new cell mate, Thomas, if I was there and it
came down from higher ups to assign somebody, Yes, if
I was there, yes. Question So if somebody else told
you to Thomas. Yeah, if somebody told me, if the
Shoe lieutenant told me that, oh listen, he needs this
and such like that, yeah, just go like that. Because
he's high I wouldn't just put somebody in his cell
Question Okay, what about Shoe staff that weren't informed by
higher ups? Shoe staff there could have they assigned Epstein
with a new cell mate, even temporarily Thomas. Could they
have question authorized Thomas? Were they question? I meant that
theoretically they could have, as in, like you can do anything, Thomas,
you can do anything you want, he gets cut off.
But were they authorized to have Thomas cuts him off? No?
Not the high profile. No, I don't think they're authorized.
Question Okay Thomas, I don't know offhand, but I wouldn't
say from my knowledge for being I wouldn't say that
they're authorized. It would have to come from somebody else. Question. Okay,
so the people that are working in the Shoe, what
action should have they taken? As soon as they were
aware that Epstein's cell mate had left. Thomas, what are
we talking about? Question? So, if they're, you know, supposed
to be conducting counts, supposed to be conducting rounds, as
soon as they notice, Hey, Reyes is gone, Epstein has
required davissel mate, is it their responsibility to notify someone? Hey,
get on the phone and call the oppso lieutenant, Control
center or whomever. Thomas, I would call. I would call somebody,
call somebody and let them know Operations Epstein needs a
cell may question? Right, so he gets cut off now
by Thomas, Shoe lieutenant if he's there, Thomas, or excuse me?
Question So the Shoe lieutenant, Thomas, if the first person
he gets cut off has gone on leave, Thomas, If
the Shoe lieutenant has gone on leave, call the operations lieutenant.
Question Okay, all right, now we're going to talk a
little bit more about what about rounds and counts. So
the cell count what officially? What is that? Is it
obtaining the official number of inmates in the housing unit? Thomas? Yeah?
Question okay, And can you just explain the process? You
touched on it before, but now can you actually explain,
Like so, when you're in the shoe, for instance, and
your he gets cut off. What timeframe are we talking about? Question?
So your time frame, let's talk about when you're specifically there.
You're there from twelve am to eight am. Correct Thomas, yes, question,
And you were there for both August ninth and August tenth.
When should you have been conducting the accounts and how
should they have been conducted? Thomas. How it happens is
one officer goes up. You have the door key to
the grills, the outside grill. In the outside grill, one
officer walks around count verified, do one count. Then the
other officer go around count, and then you all combine
your numbers at the end. You can bind your numbers
at the end of each tier and then you tally
up the numbers at the end. Most people write them
down on a piece of paper on your hand back
of the counclip. It could be a number of different
various where people write them down. But one person goes
around count, the next person goes around count. You all
say tell each other the number I got fifteen, I
got fifteen, boom. Then you move on to the next tier.
Do the same form for all six tiers, and then
you tally up the numbers at the end. Question Okay.
So when one staff member is counting the inmates on
each tier, Thomas cuts them off. They're the one standing
at the grill. Question at the grill? And can you
just explain what the grill is? Thomas, It's just the door. Question.
Is the door closed or open? Thomas? Typically it's closed,
but some people leave it open. Question Okay, So one
person remains outside of the tier basically at the door
Thomas at the door with the key. Question, and then
one staff member goes around checks on all the inmates.
When and how do they check the inmates Thomas. They
look inside if it's covered, they look inside a window,
look inside of the glass. I can't tell you the
diameter of it, but you look inside the glass and
you see where the inmates are. Question now the twelve
am is there account that's supposed to be done at
twelve am and three am? Thomas, twelve, three and five? Question?
All am? Thomas, all am? Yes. Question and during that time,
when you look at the window of the door, what
is it you're supposed to see? Question? You verify flesh,
make sure you can see somebody, see somebody's skin. Question
do you need to see a movement Thomas, No, because
they could be asleep. Question does that mean you're supposed
to hit the door or anything? Make sure Thomas No,
gets an interrupted. See if they're all good, Thomas, they're
still human beings. No, they're asleep at twelve midnight. Some
are up playing chess, some are writing letters, some are asleep.
You don't hit the door to make sure they're moving.
Question do you shine a flashlight in Thomas? Some have
a flashlight? You have? He gets cut off, No, do
you Thomas, Yeah, I'll have a flashlight and I'll just
flash and see live breathing skin. They could be under
the blanket or anything like that. Question okay? And is
the purpose to make what's the purpose Thomas, to make
sure nobody escaped and see a body inside? Question a
live body question or answer? We have a live body question? Okay?
A live body okay? And that is the process in
the shoe, correct, like, not only in the institution, but
in the shoe, Thomas, that's the process in the institution.
Question right, including the shoe Thomas, Yeah. Question okay. And
when conducting counts, do CEOs have to speak with inmates? Thomas?
We don't have to question. No, Now, explain to me
what's around? Question or answer? Same process question, same Thomas,
same process question. So every thirty minutes you actually have
to take account as well, Thomas. No, you don't have
to take the count. The same process without the count,
the counting of numbers. You just walk around and verify
somebody's inside, mister addacted. Just like you said with the count,
each one has to go around and see if their
numbers match up. Thomas. No, you don't have to round
and see if the numbers match up. No, you just
verify that there's a body inside. Question. But does somebody
have to stand at the grille and other person walk
down and have to switch places and do the same
thing Thomas, Yes, question both ways, Thomas, yes question. Okay,
So it's the same process aside from Thomas, aside from
the count question. Okay, so it's identical other than you're
actually counting during the count, Thomas, the exactly what you
just said. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,
and then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
gonna pick up where we left off. All of the
information that goes with this episode can be found in
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