Speaker 1: The show goes on, and we are joined now by
Speaker 1: Max Chadwick from Pro Football Focus.
Speaker 2: Of course, he is.
Speaker 1: A college football analyst there. Max, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: How you doing, what you guys doing? You know, we're
Speaker 2: having a great day here. It's Friday. It's fun day,
Speaker 2: it's fantastic day. It's football day.
Speaker 1: Because every day for me is football day, and especially
Speaker 1: on Fridays, Fridays or football days you're a football guy.
Speaker 1: There's a I don't know, a story, a movement, a
Speaker 1: suggestion that they expand the college football playoffs from twelve
Speaker 1: to sixteen. Of course, this is coming probably from the
Speaker 1: folks in the Big Ten and the SEC. Your thoughts
Speaker 1: on the expansion of the college football playoffs, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised, honestly, right, I mean it seems like
Speaker 3: college football. I mean, listen, it's all about money, as
Speaker 3: you guys know, and it's become that for It's been
Speaker 3: that way for programs forever, and now it's really become
Speaker 3: that way for players as well. And you know, ever
Speaker 3: since they extended twelve teams, I never thought they would
Speaker 3: stop there. So I know, the contract I believe runs
Speaker 3: out after this upcoming season for a twelve team playoff,
Speaker 3: so who knows how because maybe a sixteen team playoff
Speaker 3: very very soon. So it's not surprising at all, honestly,
Speaker 3: And I actually I really don't think it'll kill college
Speaker 3: football like a lot of people think it would. You know,
Speaker 3: pretty much every other level of college football has even
Speaker 3: bigger playoffs than sixteen teams and they're doing just fine.
Speaker 3: And I mean a lot of other leagues have way
Speaker 3: bigger playoffs than twelve team as well, and they're doing
Speaker 3: just fine too. So I really don't think a sixteen
Speaker 3: team playoff would kill college football, with a lot of
Speaker 3: people think it would.
Speaker 1: The house first, the NCAA, they had some kind of pickups.
Speaker 1: The judges said, hey, go back and add language. I've
Speaker 1: got an issue with these players that are being cut
Speaker 1: from teams that these roster limits are, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: that they injure these players, even high school players who
Speaker 1: had scholarships rescinded.
Speaker 2: Where does this send up? Is this is this something
Speaker 2: that there should.
Speaker 1: Be a concern about right now, or or is it
Speaker 1: just that they're just trying to get all the final
Speaker 1: eyes dotted and teas crossed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting what happens in this case, right, it
Speaker 3: could be a seminal case in college football. I think
Speaker 3: it's been coming for a while, honestly, you know, I
Speaker 3: think everyone's kind of seen that and IO and everything
Speaker 3: have kind of changed college football and so for some
Speaker 3: ways in the worst, right, So they got to figure
Speaker 3: out ways to regulate it a little bit. So, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it makes sense if this case is happening now, and
Speaker 3: I think it'll hopefully bring some good changes to college football.
Speaker 1: I wanted there's a couple of folks I want to
Speaker 1: talk about here locally at the University of Utah.
Speaker 2: One Cam Rising.
Speaker 1: So Cam Rising was a great player at Utah and
Speaker 1: took him to the couple of Rose Bulls and won
Speaker 1: a couple of Pack twelve championship. He has announced his
Speaker 1: essential retirement from football. Your thoughts on Cam and and
Speaker 1: him not pursuing football at this time and kind of
Speaker 1: what he's meant to the program here in Salt Lake.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not surprised by it, you know. Unfortunately, injuries
Speaker 3: has kind of absolutely tanked his career over the last
Speaker 3: few years. Honestly, right, I remember that that torn a
Speaker 3: CEO and the Rolls Bowl, and then a bunch of
Speaker 3: different aims that injuries has kind of you know, ended
Speaker 3: a bunch of seasons for him, So not surprised by
Speaker 3: it at all. I mean, obviously Utah has already moved on.
Speaker 3: You know, the kind of writing was on the wall
Speaker 3: for Cam Rising at Utah when they brought in Devin
Speaker 3: dan Pierre from New Mexico is a very talented quarterback,
Speaker 3: so they're clearly moving on from quarter at quarterback. I'm
Speaker 3: sure Cam Rising didn't want to go through some more
Speaker 3: injuries as well, and I just don't know where he
Speaker 3: would have found a starting job in college football nowadays anyways,
Speaker 3: So this is not a very surprising move. And you know,
Speaker 3: he was a great quarterback for Utah, right, He brought
Speaker 3: them to two Rolls Bowls, He won two Pack twelve
Speaker 3: championships with Utah, So he should be looked out very
Speaker 3: fondly by by Utah fans. Just unfortunate that injuries are
Speaker 3: unfortunately a big part of his career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always tough when when a player, because his
Speaker 1: Utah really felt like it had the quality teams the
Speaker 1: last couple of years, and uh and and not having
Speaker 1: a quarterback and really a solid guy to replace Cam
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people.
Speaker 2: You know, man, what could have been?
Speaker 1: You know, you could have you talk, competed and won
Speaker 1: the Big Twelve in their first year and gone to
Speaker 1: the college football playoffs?
Speaker 2: And what would that look like?
Speaker 1: And also for Cam, you know, moving forward, it's like,
Speaker 1: could he have been a program?
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think Cam had an ability
Speaker 2: to play at the next level?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. He always screamed to me like
Speaker 3: a college quarterback. You know, he's a guy who was
Speaker 3: very good in college football, but didn't have a necessary
Speaker 3: tool to be an elite NFL quarterback or even starting
Speaker 3: NFL quarterback. So maybe if he never got hurt, maybe
Speaker 3: he would have gotten a shot. He probably would have
Speaker 3: gotten a shot in the NFL as like a late
Speaker 3: round pick, as maybe a backup or something like that.
Speaker 3: But I mean, he was never a starting caliber quarterback
Speaker 3: in the NFL. He was always a very good college quarterback.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna stay with that line of questioning for
Speaker 1: just one moment. I hesitate to even ask this question,
Speaker 1: but oh well, we've already opened a Pandora's box. Let's
Speaker 1: do it, uh Shador Sanders. Of course, I'm fascinating. Here's
Speaker 1: this guy, you know, drafted in the fifth round. And
Speaker 1: sure there's sure a lot of of pub and and
Speaker 1: uh kind of attention brought onto a rookie fifth round
Speaker 1: draft pick quarterback that usually doesn't happen. Uh, what's your
Speaker 1: what's your assessment of Shador where he went in the draft,
Speaker 1: and uh kind of what his his potential options are
Speaker 1: or or you know, how does he pan out moving forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the most fascinating player in this year's draft,
Speaker 3: I would say, I mean, I thought he should have been,
Speaker 3: you know, a top ten pick in the draft. I
Speaker 3: thought he was one of the top quarterbacks that you
Speaker 3: can't even argue she should have been the top quarterback
Speaker 3: in the draft. I don't think he's had far off.
Speaker 3: So he was. He was very close to cam Ward.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it had to do with
Speaker 3: just how he came off in interviews and just maybe
Speaker 3: his dad and general on the team's not wanting to
Speaker 3: deal with that. So him falling the fifth round was
Speaker 3: not very much indicative of him as a prospect on
Speaker 3: the field. It was probably more due to external factors
Speaker 3: off the field. So, I mean, everyone, even even people
Speaker 3: who didn't like Shudarg Sanders as a player that much,
Speaker 3: they still would have told you, hey, he should be
Speaker 3: a top fifty pick in the NFL draft, right, he
Speaker 3: should be somewhere in the second round at least, right.
Speaker 3: Nobody thought he would have been a fifth round pick.
Speaker 3: So falling in the fifth round that has nothing really
Speaker 3: to do with on the field stuff. That's a lot
Speaker 3: to do with his off field antics, I would say,
Speaker 3: and his father and who his father is too, So
Speaker 3: it's unfortunate for him. He's obviously got a lot to
Speaker 3: prove now in the NFL. But I mean, hey, Cleveland,
Speaker 3: that's a wide open quarterback battle right now. Right, there's
Speaker 3: not a clear answer at quarterback. I know the drafts
Speaker 3: Dalan Gabriel ahead of him, But all I'm saying is
Speaker 3: I'm a huge fan of his game. I would not
Speaker 3: be shocked if Shoudre Sanders starts a lot of games
Speaker 3: for Cleveland this upcoming year and maybe he thinks his
Speaker 3: claim as the starting quarterback for the future for the Browns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: It is a compelling dynamic that's gone on with all
Speaker 1: of this, and uh, you know, and you hear so many,
Speaker 1: so many stories and so many different opinions about you know,
Speaker 1: some people, you know, like you say, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't get it, and other people say, well, we never
Speaker 1: had him that high.
Speaker 2: Now I have had person. You know.
Speaker 1: I'm the color analyst for Utah football, and so I've
Speaker 1: watched a lot of Suret Schadeur over the last couple
Speaker 1: of years, and I've always liked a lot of what
Speaker 1: coach Prime has preached at at Colorado. I'm not put
Speaker 1: off by his self confidence and his self promotion it
Speaker 1: because I really think there's a lot of substance behind
Speaker 1: who he is as a as a person, as a coach,
Speaker 1: and uh, he just has a flashy way of of
Speaker 1: of sharing it.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: I have I have interviewed Shador the PAC twelve Media Days,
Speaker 1: and uh and I and I and I and quite frankly,
Speaker 1: I kind of can see where people would get that
Speaker 1: impression of him not very impressed with the interview I had.
Speaker 1: And I just you know, I had me rolling my
Speaker 1: ice quite a bit at a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of the statements and comments and just the whole interview
Speaker 1: in general. And this this has been you know, several
Speaker 1: years ago, and and I just you know, at the time,
Speaker 1: I just kind of shook it off as Okay, well
Speaker 1: that was really strange. Uh and then kind of hearing
Speaker 1: some of this, you know, maybe maybe that's that's how
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: So it is, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: It's certainly a story that I think people are going
Speaker 1: to continue to watch.
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna say, yeah. The other thing I would
Speaker 3: say too to that is like, Okay, they say, well, well,
Speaker 3: Dion had that kind of attitude too, and Dion ended
Speaker 3: up being, you know, one of the greatest players of
Speaker 3: all time. Listen to the difference between Dion and your Door.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 3: You could be that as a corner, right, you could
Speaker 3: have the kind of attitude as a corner and be
Speaker 3: that kind of guy. As a quarterback man, you're the
Speaker 3: leader of the team, right, And I don't know shr
Speaker 3: Door personally, so and I think I think he actually
Speaker 3: I would take it him still in the first round,
Speaker 3: even with knowing some stuff off the field, but I
Speaker 3: think he can be a leader of a locker room.
Speaker 3: But there's no doubt about it. I Mean, he definitely
Speaker 3: didn't come off great in those team interviews and that's
Speaker 3: why he fell to the fifth round. And you know,
Speaker 3: quarterbacks way different than any other position in football, where
Speaker 3: you kind of have to be a leader of men.
Speaker 3: And I think there's some teams out there. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying I was, but there's some teams that they're probably
Speaker 3: doubted whether or not he'd be a leader of a
Speaker 3: locker room.
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Utah here for a minute,
Speaker 1: and Utah has two really good offensive tackles, Spencer Fano
Speaker 1: and Caleb Laomu.
Speaker 2: And I actually saw.
Speaker 1: A thing I read it a way too early mock
Speaker 1: draft of twenty twenty six, and they had both those
Speaker 1: guys going in the first round. What's the perception of
Speaker 1: these two tackles for Utah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people like both of them. I'm
Speaker 3: a big fan of Spencer Fino in particular. He was
Speaker 3: PFF's highest graded tackle in the country actually this past year. Now,
Speaker 3: the thing with Spencer Fino that I would tell people
Speaker 3: is I don't think he's a long term tackle in
Speaker 3: the NFL. I don't think he has a length to
Speaker 3: play tackle, and I don't think he's got the kick
Speaker 3: slide that you need a tackle in pass detection. He's
Speaker 3: a dominant run blocker. He could be a very very
Speaker 3: good guard in the NFL. He by all accounts. He
Speaker 3: could be the number one interior office line and I
Speaker 3: think in next year's draft now, Lomu could play tackle
Speaker 3: in the NFL. I think he's way more of a
Speaker 3: project right now than Spencer fino Is. I'm a little
Speaker 3: bit lower on Lowmu, but there's no doubt about it.
Speaker 3: He's got he's got NFL tools, and he could become
Speaker 3: a first round pick if he develops. But as of
Speaker 3: right now, Spencer final is a way better player than
Speaker 3: Caleb Lomu. But Lomu I think maybe could play tackle
Speaker 3: in the NFL. Well, I think Final pretty much. I
Speaker 3: would be pretty surprised if he played tackle the NFL.
Speaker 3: I think he's probably gona play gard in the NFL.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating, and I know there was a lot of
Speaker 1: fighting to keep those guys that you know, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of suitors that were paying a lot of
Speaker 1: money or offering a lot of money to lure those
Speaker 1: guys away, which which brings me to my next question.
Speaker 1: It supposedly Texas thirty four thirty five to forty million
Speaker 1: dollars they've spent on their football team this year. Texas
Speaker 1: Tech spent a lot of money in the big twelve.
Speaker 1: Do you see this trend continuing to happen? And I guess, really,
Speaker 1: do you see it happening because it's the way to
Speaker 1: success or maybe buyer beware a little bit. And it's
Speaker 1: not not any guarantee that you're going to have a
Speaker 1: great team.
Speaker 3: I think it's the way it's just going to go.
Speaker 3: I mean, you have to spend money to be able
Speaker 3: to be a good team in college football nowadays. And
Speaker 3: there's no salary cap in college football either, so I
Speaker 3: know there's people saying, WHOA, this guy's not worth this,
Speaker 3: this guy's not worth that. I mean, nobody knows why
Speaker 3: anyone's worth because we don't have a salary cap, right
Speaker 3: So this is really the market price is a market
Speaker 3: price out right now. So when there is a salary
Speaker 3: cap and I think eventually there might be one in
Speaker 3: college footble the way things are going right now, then
Speaker 3: we could say, Okay, this guy's worth this, this guy's
Speaker 3: worth that. But as of right now, I mean, if
Speaker 3: anyone's guess you know what you're worth it really what
Speaker 3: you're worth is whatever your top offer is. So it's
Speaker 3: the way teams are going about business now, and there's
Speaker 3: no doubt about it that the teams that have the
Speaker 3: most funds and the most money to spend on players
Speaker 3: are getting the best rosters available right now. So I
Speaker 3: think it's it's just kind of the way it is.
Speaker 3: And if you don't have you know, significant anil resources,
Speaker 3: you're gonna have pretty much fall behind in colls football.
Speaker 2: Now, we we kind.
Speaker 1: Of live in the Big twelve country out here in
Speaker 1: uh In, Utah, And I'm really curious kind of now
Speaker 1: that we've had a couple of these signing open periods,
Speaker 1: we've had springball moving into the summer, it feels like
Speaker 1: every year somebody out of the middle of nowhere rises
Speaker 1: up in the Big twelve and wins it. Right, no
Speaker 1: one picked Arizona on their bingo card Arizona State to
Speaker 1: win it, you know, uh, they certainly weren't there, huge surprise,
Speaker 1: And it kind of seems that that's that's a trend
Speaker 1: in the conference. Do you see that happening again this year?
Speaker 1: And kind of where do you see this conference shaking out?
Speaker 2: Who?
Speaker 1: Who are the who are the who are the real
Speaker 1: contenders in the conference and the and the pretenders.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's gonna be really fun year again
Speaker 3: in the Big Twelve. I don't think there's a clear
Speaker 3: favorite in the Big Twelve right now. I think that's
Speaker 3: the one conference once again that you can look at
Speaker 3: out of the Power forward and say, yeah, I have
Speaker 3: no idea who's gonna win that conference right now. I
Speaker 3: think Arizona State is still absolutely gonna be up there.
Speaker 3: You know, they brought back Sam Levity, who's one of
Speaker 3: the best quarterbacks in America. Jordan Tyson's back from his injury.
Speaker 3: He's one of the best receivers in the country. I
Speaker 3: think Texas Tech is a really really interesting team this year.
Speaker 3: They spent a lot of money in the transfer portables offseason.
Speaker 3: They brought in a lot of really good transfers. I
Speaker 3: think they could have a really, really good team. I
Speaker 3: think Texas Tech's got to be a team to watch
Speaker 3: out for. Kansas State's always going to be up there
Speaker 3: with Avery Johnson there BYU brought back a lot of
Speaker 3: their really good players from last year, including Jake Regsloff,
Speaker 3: their quarterback, and they had a really really good year
Speaker 3: last year as well. Baylor should be up there. Utah
Speaker 3: should still be up there with Devin Dan Pierre decided
Speaker 3: to watch what we could do this year two in
Speaker 3: Utah is always a very well coached team. So again,
Speaker 3: those are like five or six or seven schools I
Speaker 3: just named right there that should be really good once
Speaker 3: again in the Big Twelve. And yeah, once again it
Speaker 3: is a wide open conference. There is no true were
Speaker 3: favorite in the Big Twelve right now.
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm fascinating to see what happens with some of
Speaker 1: these big name NFL coaches that have come into college football?
Speaker 1: What what what do you think happens with with Bill Belichick?
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of kind of outside of football stuff,
Speaker 1: certainly grabbing a lot of headlines with him. And then uh,
Speaker 1: where is where is coach prime? After shador and and uh?
Speaker 1: And really is his other kids? You know he's he's Uh,
Speaker 1: I guess he's an empty nester as a coach now
Speaker 1: And does that impact him?
Speaker 2: Where? Where? Where do you see these names?
Speaker 1: And is this a trend that maybe continues to happen
Speaker 1: in college football?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'd be interesting. I think Bill Belichick's me a
Speaker 3: really interesting case study. You know, he's the greatest coach
Speaker 3: I would argue all time in football even and now
Speaker 3: he's going to college football after winning so many Super
Speaker 3: Bowls in the NFL, so it's gonna be fascinating to
Speaker 3: see what he could do in college football. I know
Speaker 3: a lot of the story around Hi has unfortunately been
Speaker 3: some off the field stuff that's going on with with
Speaker 3: Poast Belichick right now that there's no doubt that he
Speaker 3: on the field, he is as brilliant as they come
Speaker 3: as an exits and know his mine and one of
Speaker 3: the greatest defensive minds we've ever seen in the sport.
Speaker 3: So really interesting thing what he could do with North
Speaker 3: Carolina next year. They do lose a lot of talent though,
Speaker 3: so it could be a little bit of a rebuilding
Speaker 3: year for them. As for Dion, I don't really know
Speaker 3: what NFL team would be looking to hire him right now.
Speaker 3: I think he's where he is, that Colorado is a
Speaker 3: terrific spot for him. He's made Colorado relevant, which is
Speaker 3: a very difficult thing to do before he got there. Honestly,
Speaker 3: they were a dumpster fire before he got there. I
Speaker 3: just don't know if you know, he would ever go
Speaker 3: to the NFL or if he would work in the NFL,
Speaker 3: you know, and that kind of environment. So maybe he
Speaker 3: goes to a bigger job in college football. Now that
Speaker 3: you know his sons are gone, both Shador and Shiloh,
Speaker 3: and and Travis Hunter has gone too. Maybe he looks
Speaker 3: for a bigger job, and maybe a bigger job looks
Speaker 3: to him to help them rebuild their program. But I
Speaker 3: don't know if really fits the NFL. I think he's
Speaker 3: more of a college coach and he'll keep doing that
Speaker 3: as long as he wants.
Speaker 1: To see I have a theory. I'd be curious what
Speaker 1: you think about it. With these coaches and and you know,
Speaker 1: why are they leaving the NFL and with A with
Speaker 1: a as you said, there's no salary cap. If you
Speaker 1: have the funding, you basically can go out and uh
Speaker 1: buy your team. You know, like as long as and
Speaker 1: and with a high profile coach, people are like, well
Speaker 1: I want to go there because I want to go
Speaker 1: to the pros. And the perception is these pro coaches
Speaker 1: know what it takes to get you to the pros.
Speaker 1: So uh, Whereas if you're if you're an an NFL coach,
Speaker 1: you got to rely on the draft, you gotta rely
Speaker 1: on free agency. You don't have as much control over
Speaker 1: getting the players you want. Whereas you know, like if
Speaker 1: you know, if you're Bill Belichick and you have an
Speaker 1: open checkbook, you can probably go get about whoever you want,
Speaker 1: and and and and I wonder if that's is that
Speaker 1: part of the draw, Is that what these these coaches
Speaker 1: are seeing, uh, that it's just kind of wide open. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know there aren't There aren't the restrictions like there
Speaker 1: are in the NFL.
Speaker 3: No, I think you're onto something there. Honestly, there's really
Speaker 3: no restrictions in college football right now. So you can,
Speaker 3: if you have the funds, you could build the best
Speaker 3: roster possible if you really want to. Right there's no
Speaker 3: salary cap, like you said, so, I mean theoretically would
Speaker 3: never happen, But theoretically you could grab the best players
Speaker 3: in the air position in the country and build a
Speaker 3: roster and you know, not have to worry about a
Speaker 3: salary cap or and it's like that.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Of course, you probably wouldn't be able to afford that,
Speaker 3: but there's no limits to what you could do in
Speaker 3: college football nowadays, with the way ANIL is now. I
Speaker 3: will say for some NFL coaches, there's it's way more
Speaker 3: structured in the NFL. And I'm sure a lot of
Speaker 3: coaches enjoy that structure, right were guys are under contracts, right,
Speaker 3: you cannot leave your team unless your contract is finished
Speaker 3: or unlearn unless the team cuts you or trades you.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So now there's no contracts in the end and then
Speaker 3: nil and college football guys are transferring left and right
Speaker 3: every single year. So it's way harder to maintain a
Speaker 3: roster or build a roster in college football than it
Speaker 3: is in the NFL. I think that part of it.
Speaker 3: And the fact you get to be on the road
Speaker 3: all the time recruiting kids in the off season as well.
Speaker 3: There really is no off season in college football where
Speaker 3: there is an off season in the NFL. That's a
Speaker 3: part of it too, So there are probably some coaches
Speaker 3: out there who enjoy the structure of the NFL. And
Speaker 3: the NFL is probably way more about the xes and
Speaker 3: o's than college football is. Where college football a lot
Speaker 3: of it is about if your coach got to be
Speaker 3: a CEO too, Right, You've got to be a guy
Speaker 3: that's going out there recruiting, going out there on the
Speaker 3: transit portal, you know, using your funds wisely as well
Speaker 3: maintaining your roster. It is way harder, i think, right now,
Speaker 3: to be a college football coach than it is to
Speaker 3: be an NFL coach. Of course, the level is way
Speaker 3: better in the NFL, but there's so much extra stuff
Speaker 3: you got to do as a college football coach you
Speaker 3: don't have to do in the NFL. So that's why
Speaker 3: I don't think there'll be many NFL coaches going down
Speaker 3: to collegeball. I just I don't think many of them
Speaker 3: are interested in the wild, wide west that is college
Speaker 3: football right now.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to see how it works and what you
Speaker 1: can possibly do in maddening as well. I mean, Utah
Speaker 1: finished at spring practice and lost its top wide receiver.
Speaker 1: You know, it's over and like on the last day
Speaker 1: of this open NL post spring, and it's it's maddening,
Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully there's some semblance of normalcy that
Speaker 1: comes at some point, but who knows.
Speaker 3: We'll see, all right, it'll be interesting, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Max, I really enjoyed having you on the show.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the conversation, and enjoy the rest of your
Speaker 1: day and this weekend.
Speaker 3: Thanks appreciate you.