WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:07.200 The Team House with your host Jack Murphy and David Bark. 2 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:16.399 Good evening, everyone. This is episode one eighty six of 3 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:19.239 The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy. Dave's out at a 4 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:23.320 cybersecurity conference tonight, and it'll just be me and Larry 5 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:27.000 talking tonight. Our guest Larry Chambers is the author of 6 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:31.160 Ricondo and Death in Ashaw Valley. He is a former 7 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.439 WORP ranger served in the Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols in Vietnam. 8 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:38.119 One of his teammates was a former guest of the show, 9 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:40.880 Ken Miller. I hope you guys will check that interview 10 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:45.399 out after this one. Also served with Gary Linderer. You know, 11 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:48.520 a kind of your peer group that wrote a lot 12 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:50.719 about the WORPS after the war, and people like me 13 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.520 read those books, you know, in the nineteen nineties as kids, 14 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:58.479 and it was certainly found them inspirational. So I mean, 15 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:01.000 this is really like a special moment for me, Larry, 16 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:03.079 and I really appreciate you coming on the show tonight. 17 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:05.519 You're welcome, you know, it's exciting. 18 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:09.799 So Larry, I'd like to start off talking about, you know, 19 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:13.000 your origin story and sort of like how you grew 20 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:15.719 up and what your pathway was that eventually took you 21 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:16.799 towards the military. 22 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:19.799 Well, I always I grew up in the military. I 23 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:21.920 knew I was going to be in the military. Every 24 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.879 childhood picture of me is in a uniform, my dad's 25 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:32.359 little cut down officers uniform. And so we lived on 26 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:36.280 an army base called Fort Barry. Fort Cronkite on the 27 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:40.079 San Francisco coast was a missile battery and so that was, 28 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:44.319 you know, in the mid fifties, and so I kind 29 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:48.000 of remember the old brown boot Army because it wasn't 30 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.519 that long after Korea. And my dad sertain degree served 31 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.560 in World War Two and he got kind of a 32 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.120 choice assignment after the war, and so all these so 33 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.439 my friends growing up were privates and corporals that worked 34 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:05.120 under my dad. He ran the radar site on the 35 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:10.319 Bay on the Ford, and so, I mean, my dream 36 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.439 was to be was to go to West Point. My 37 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:16.919 dream was to then it became my dream was wanted 38 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:22.439 to be a fighter pilot. And I took the Marine Corps. 39 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.759 I remember when I went down to take the Marine 40 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:31.719 Corps flight test, influnked it. I got such a little score. 41 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:33.360 They didn't even tell me what the score was. It 42 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.159 was so bad. I was so nervous because I wanted 43 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:38.800 it so bad. I literally would go blank. I would 44 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:40.639 you know, I was one of those kids that I 45 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:43.199 take a test and I'd have to read one question 46 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:47.360 fifteen times. You know, does the plane take off in 47 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:48.800 the air? I don't know. I mean, I was just 48 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:53.360 it was terrible. So I was I was, let's say, 49 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.159 for the last couple of years of high school. It 50 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.120 was just so I thought, oh man, I'll never I'm 51 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:03.560 never going to get my dream come true. And then 52 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:05.960 I found out I could volunteer for the draft. I mean, 53 00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:08.639 this is opposite from all the stories of here about 54 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.039 oh I was drafted. I got I was like, when 55 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:13.039 I got my draft, I was were like, yeah, it 56 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.199 was like, oh my god. You know, it was weird, 57 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:20.280 but that I loved the Army. I loved being in 58 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:26.560 the army. I was My friendships are still lifelong friendships 59 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:31.039 with guys like Miller and Linder and Looney and Burford 60 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:33.719 and all of these guys over the years, and well, 61 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:35.879 you know, as soon as one guy dies, everybody no, no, 62 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:41.120 you know, we're getting closer. But just lifelong friendships I'd 63 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:46.599 never found, you know, I would use my ranger service 64 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.360 in that when I was in business to shame people. 65 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:54.080 Like if somebody stood me up or was late like 66 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:56.680 twenty minutes, I said, great, you just got my whole 67 00:03:56.680 --> 00:03:59.120 team killed. What are you talking about? Me go, well, 68 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.000 as far as I'm concern, if you're late, you're dead. 69 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:05.360 If the chopper comes in and you're doing like, what 70 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.080 are you talking about? Nobody had that kind of I 71 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.479 was a stockbroker, I worked for you after I graduated 72 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:16.959 from University of Utah, and and I sort of had 73 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:19.160 to tone that down, you know, I've sort of kept 74 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:22.600 the whole because they used to think if you went 75 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:25.399 to Vietnam, you were crazy. And there was all these 76 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:28.519 guys that had never gone to Vietnam that were crazy, 77 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.240 and they were and they gave such a bad rap 78 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:34.600 for the guys. But and I would hear these stories 79 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:38.160 and I go like, that's not the story that I remember. 80 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:41.160 I mean, I remember guys tearing each other apart to 81 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:43.279 get on the helicopter to go out to rescue people. 82 00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:47.959 And you know, our teams and we never left anybody behind. 83 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:52.279 And guys, would you know, take a bullet for I mean, 84 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:56.639 it was everything that you see and in the Avenger stories. 85 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:00.040 But we're true. You know, these guys were heroes and 86 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.720 and I was just lucky to be you know. I 87 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:07.839 always felt like I was like the like the like 88 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:12.120 the I just felt I was lucky to be there. 89 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:14.959 I just, you know, I never put myself up to 90 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.839 think I was anything at the time. I just I 91 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:23.759 was really good at being alert. I was good being appointment. 92 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:28.759 That's I used to say. I went from the I 93 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.120 had dyslexia. I mean, I still have dyslexi, you know, 94 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.319 which made school and I was a d D or 95 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:36.879 still guess I am. So I made school really really 96 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:45.319 difficult for me. And I I remember going into going 97 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:47.519 in the Army. It was like I moved to the 98 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.519 head of the class, you know. I just I mean, 99 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:53.120 the training was it was like a piece of cake. 100 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:55.800 I thought it was like, you know, somebody had sent 101 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:58.920 me to camp. It was like fun. Like Cap and 102 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.160 I get the Vietnam it was even more fun. And 103 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.439 they had, you know, all the rounds, they gave you, 104 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:06.399 all the ammunition and targets were everywhere. So it was like, 105 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.079 oh my gosh, what you know. But I couldn't tell this, 106 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.079 you know. I come back and try to Yeah, yeah, 107 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:16.519 tell people, you know, like, I don't know if you 108 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:21.680 ever heard of a ranger named Cox, and he he 109 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:24.519 was this guy and I just talked to his wife. 110 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.839 He just died two years ago. When every time he 111 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:31.839 seen me, he would like give me a he would 112 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:34.160 punch me in the shoulder. It just he just loved 113 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.519 to punch me. It was just like one of these 114 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:37.279 big guys. And I got to where I just let 115 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:40.519 him punch me. So one time, I mean, he was 116 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.839 on that mission that you may remember that Gary Linda 117 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:49.040 wrote about where the whole team got wiped out by 118 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:52.720 the guys got huge or something a huge, yeah huge 119 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:55.959 NBA Claymore. And I was on the other team, so 120 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:59.360 I was out too, but we were close enough we 121 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:02.120 could hear him arnucle we couldn't get to him. And 122 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:10.319 Cox got his got blown his his arm like his 123 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:13.319 hand was blown back and his stomach was blown open. 124 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.000 He like set his own arm and taped it to 125 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:21.240 his shotgun, taped himself up and was there for the 126 00:07:21.279 --> 00:07:24.879 next five hours shooting guys coming up the hill. And 127 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.040 you're like, I told that was it a at a 128 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:31.720 party at a college party in like nineteen seventy after 129 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:33.480 I came back and there was a guy and he 130 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.680 was holding court and he was talking about, you know, 131 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:37.680 he plays rugby, and I'll tell you what, that's a 132 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:41.399 goddamn tough sport, that rugby. I'll tell you I sprayed 133 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:43.800 this ankle. I played the whole game with his spraying 134 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.720 ankle and a tooth broken. And I went like, well, 135 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:49.920 you know I had a friend that he got his 136 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:51.879 spray ankle too, but he also got his stomach blown 137 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:53.399 up and his hand was blown you know, I'd start 138 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:57.399 telling his story and people would be like, uh in shock. 139 00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.560 You know, it was just a little bit too real, 140 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:01.079 that Wold war, you know. 141 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:04.000 But before Larry, before moving on, I just want to 142 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:06.160 take a moment to ask you about your dad, because 143 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:09.199 he was an Alamo Scout, which was like very unique 144 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.720 unit that Rangers trace their lineage back to. I was 145 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:14.120 wonder if you could tell us a little bit about 146 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:17.560 his experiences and kind of like what you grew up around. 147 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:24.399 Well, he was also a functional alcoholic, so he was 148 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.279 you know, he could handle the job, but you know, 149 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.799 mostly he was an alcoholic. So he never ever talked 150 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.559 to me about any of that stuff. But that's always. 151 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.000 I'd heard that he was part of the he was 152 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.679 in the Philippines, he was wounded in late day and 153 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:47.120 you know, the he came back, I guess, I mean 154 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:51.080 had me after he you know, was sent back home. 155 00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:55.240 But so I don't know a lot about well, I 156 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.120 do know this one story, but this is speculation. But 157 00:08:58.200 --> 00:08:59.639 he's dead, so there's nothing he can do to me 158 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:04.799 right now. He was a young lieutenant and I've got 159 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.480 a picture of him in his He's a brand new 160 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:14.039 second lieutenant out of high school and he's at a 161 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:21.879 Thanksgiving dinner and it's nineteen forty one Thanksgiving, so it's 162 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:25.559 like two weeks or something before the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, 163 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.200 and I've got a picture of him. You know, these 164 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:29.799 guys have no idea what's what's coming down the horn. 165 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:32.759 So he goes, they go when they train in the 166 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:36.960 Philippines and they did all of that, and i'd heard 167 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:44.000 that he and like, nah, I shouldn't even tell it. Well, 168 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:46.039 now I've started. I got to tell the story. But 169 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:49.879 there was like a machine gun nest and he took us. 170 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.120 You know, it's a platoon. He's a platoon leader, right, 171 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.320 so he takes his platoon and a whole bunch of 172 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:56.919 the guys get shot, and he came He finally came back, 173 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:58.320 and a lot of his guys got shot and they 174 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:02.279 busted him for it. Got he lost so many guys, 175 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.759 and he sort of never got over. I mean, they 176 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:07.480 never ever talked about that. I heard that from like 177 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.679 a half brother of mine that told me that story. 178 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.480 So I can't say it's true, but it sort of fit. 179 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.440 But yeah, it makes sense why he wouldn't want to 180 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:15.360 talk about it too much. 181 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:20.000 But I remember, you know, I remember him as a 182 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:23.600 sergeant first class on this fort on Fort Barry, and 183 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:28.000 how strike everything was, and how you know, his his 184 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:32.519 his fatigues were like crackled, they were just crisp, and 185 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.039 the boots were always shined and everything. And I just 186 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:36.960 grew up with that, and I you know, so when 187 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.080 I got to Vietnam, it was a shock. It was 188 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.759 like I grew up in one army and then there 189 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:43.759 was a gap, you know, from the fifties and then 190 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:46.720 the sixties. I go in sixty eight and I'd go 191 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:49.320 into a whole new army that I did not recognize. 192 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:51.200 You know, they didn't A lot of the guys did 193 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:53.159 not have the respect I mean not in our unit, 194 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:55.440 but in other units, you know, didn't have respect for 195 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.919 the the guys above him and all that stuff. It 196 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:02.600 just did change. It was And of course that war 197 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:06.320 was a lot different, you know, other than other wars. 198 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.120 And if you were drafted, so you you happily accepted 199 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:15.080 your drafting and joined the army and uh, your your 200 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:19.639 infantry right yeah? Yeah? And and then uh, what's what's 201 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:21.360 kind of like fast forward to the part where you 202 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:23.919 arrive in Vietnam and how you get yourself on a 203 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:24.480 WORP team. 204 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:27.320 Okay, but I was infantry, but I went to jump 205 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:31.480 school that after infantry, you know training, you know, so 206 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.320 I've got the pop Pop eleven eleven Fox Pop whatever 207 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:40.159 that is. And so when I arrived in Vietnam, is 208 00:11:40.159 --> 00:11:40.720 that what you Yeah? 209 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:42.879 Yeah, when you got there and volunteered to be a 210 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.639 WORP I mean, could you walk us through some of that? 211 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:50.080 Oh yeah, Like I said, I wanted to do all 212 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.440 these really cool things that I couldn't test out to do. 213 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:56.080 So I get there and I, you know, to me 214 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.679 special forces, I can't believe it. People don't equate this 215 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:04.320 in Vietnam, but I should do. They were like gods, 216 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.559 literally walking gods. If you were inn SF, you were 217 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:12.679 the coolest thing on the planet Earth. And but it 218 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:15.480 was a four year, six year commitment to do that. 219 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:20.480 And I and what I I found out by volunteerfer Lips, 220 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.399 I could see you, and you know, I could uh 221 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.679 what ten forty nine or whatever that was into fob 222 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.200 like into an fob one or something if you wanted to. 223 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:31.840 So there's a way to get into SF and not 224 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:33.799 you know, we didn't. I don't know if they had 225 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:36.799 the Q course backed entery and that stuff. But I 226 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:42.320 was a bunch of these paratroopers that had got there, 227 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.039 and they sort of they didn't sort of they sort 228 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.639 of well they were counting guys off and they counted off. 229 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.000 And this was nineteen sixty eight, and this was we 230 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:55.240 had lost a thousand guys and one hundred and first 231 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:59.320 up in the north and and so one hundred first 232 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:03.440 wasn't exactly like everybody's choice, you know when they get there. 233 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:06.480 But they counted off, and I remember they drop like 234 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:07.960 a couple in front of me and you guys are 235 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:10.639 all hundred first, and I jumped up and yelled is 236 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.519 excitement because that was my dream come true. I had 237 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:15.840 it all mapped out in my mind. I'd be hunting 238 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.600 first and I volunteer to do something really cool. So 239 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.039 and I do that, and everybody was you know, a 240 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:24.559 lot of these guys. I thought it was like nuts 241 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:31.320 for that show of emotion. And then there would be 242 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.440 a guy that would come by and they would this 243 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:40.759 young sergeant I gave us a talk about being alert, 244 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.840 what it meant to be alert, and he said something 245 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:46.000 that I would never forget, and it was, look, when 246 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.000 you're out, you got five six guys the good And 247 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:51.559 I hate to use this word, but I got to 248 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.559 say it goop because it's a word that hated me back. 249 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:57.200 It was used at the time. It's very you know, 250 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:03.919 I would never use it now, but being shoot that 251 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.279 made me lose my trend of thought about oh so 252 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:10.360 here's what. So he goes, you're out in it, in 253 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.559 the in the jungle, and the gooks don't they can't 254 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.240 see you. You can't see them. You're out there trying 255 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.519 to find them. He says, Look, it's some of you 256 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:20.600 guys are going to go north and you're going to 257 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:22.639 be on a firebase. You're going to be an infantry company, 258 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.279 and you can hear an infantry company all the way 259 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:28.120 to hand noise that makes so much noise that lerps 260 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:30.200 were silent. He told us. The whole story goes, it's 261 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.399 safer behind the lines than it is in front of him, 262 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.080 and we're like boom, my hand went up and volunteered, 263 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.159 and people thought it was crazy when I did that, 264 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.600 but I really think it's say that saved my life. 265 00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:46.519 It just being in that lurt company though it was hard. 266 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:51.120 I mean, it wasn't you know, cake walk, but. 267 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:53.360 You're you're around motivated, competent people. 268 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.360 Everybody there was. They were all volunteers twice when we 269 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.440 were still on jump status. So you know, the Hunter 270 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:03.720 first was on jumpstat just us and I think the 271 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.000 you know, another group like the Pathliners, and that was 272 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:15.200 all so we still got jump pay and so you 273 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:19.240 you sort of self selected yourself into it, so you 274 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.759 were around got like minded guys. And so that's why 275 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.840 my experience of that war is completely different than a 276 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:28.919 lot of the stories. I mean, I don't, you know, 277 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.120 I feel bad for guys that I lost, but you know, 278 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.320 I'm not. I don't dwell on that. I don't feel 279 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.679 bad about, you know, things that I did. I feel 280 00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:44.759 proud of every single thing my team did. We did 281 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:47.840 and they and my my unit, my ranger unit. I 282 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:51.240 mean we were like we would get up sometimes in 283 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:54.240 the morning and run. We still had to run, if 284 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:57.320 you believe or not. And we would run through what 285 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:59.000 we call legs, you know, even though they were one 286 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:01.639 hunter first, they were still legs and we would run 287 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.919 through their barracks at like five o'clock in the morning, which, 288 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:07.960 you know, we just pissed everybody off. But we were 289 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.240 so proud of, you know, that we could piss people off, 290 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:13.039 not only in the back but out in the front. 291 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:15.200 You know, whatever wherever we were at, we wanted to 292 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.360 like cause trouble. Yeah. 293 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:19.240 Ken, Yes, guys were troublemakers. 294 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:25.360 Ken was Ken. You know. Ken's not a big tall guy, right, 295 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.919 whatever the minimum is to get in the army. He's 296 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.879 like two inches lower than that. But here's the thing. 297 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:35.200 Like one time some new guy came in to our 298 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:40.200 unit and he wanted to fight guys. And we're sitting 299 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:42.879 in our team you know, our team house, our team tents, 300 00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.399 and this guy came in. I was sitting there and 301 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:47.279 it was you know, it pissed me on, pissed me off. 302 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.879 Because he was kind of drunk and he was really 303 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.120 mouthing off about how he could beat anybody. You know what. 304 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.279 You guys are so tough, you know, So I went, no, 305 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:57.000 come on, So we went around the back of the tent. 306 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.600 Now this is a cheap shot, I'm sorry, but I 307 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.440 coll cocked him. Mine came from the bottom and I 308 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:04.880 hit him right in the face and knocked him clear 309 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:07.400 down into the road and he rolled and Miller and 310 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.519 I did high fives. We thought that was the greatest 311 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:14.279 thing in the world until suddenly he shows back up 312 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.640 with that platoon was like the first platoon, and they're 313 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.319 all like, oh, what the chief joke and were going 314 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:21.799 to fight these guys are this one guy that's my 315 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.200 size is standing in front of me and he's good, 316 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.319 you know, he's pointing his finger and stuff like that, 317 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:30.240 and he touched Miller and it was a mistake. The 318 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:32.559 guy took a swing at Miller and Miller caught the 319 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:36.720 swing in his mouth, bit through his knuckle, you know, 320 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:40.119 just almost bit his finger completely off, and then got 321 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.440 on him on his ear and bit his ear off 322 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:46.799 and spit it. So he did that way before you know, 323 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.599 the boxer did spit the ear out. Blood was going everywhere, 324 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:52.920 and all of us just stood back and shock and went, 325 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.960 you fucked up. You know that you should never fight 326 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:00.000 somebody that's shorter than you are. Because we couldn't get 327 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.559 him off. He kept We were all trying to try 328 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:06.720 him off, but he just kept beating this guy up. 329 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:08.480 It was like tragic. 330 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.079 Mill Miller neglected to tell me that story. 331 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.960 Well, it's not going to tell that story, no, but 332 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:17.720 I witnessed it. 333 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.400 Tell Tell tell me then, what it was like when 334 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.559 you first showed up at your unit at one hundred 335 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:24.240 and first Corpse. What was it like getting there as 336 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:24.680 a new guy. 337 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.759 Well, here's okay, So I'll tell you what it was 338 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:31.480 like because I was mister Odie Chlode like. I didn't smoke, 339 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:35.200 didn't drink, didn't smoke dope, didn't even cuss, and believed 340 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:38.680 in God even you know, how weird am I and 341 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.039 I show up and so we're it was like the 342 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.680 first or second day, and this guy named Marty Martinez, 343 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.480 which was one of the point men who had a 344 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:53.720 huge body count, and and he goes, yeah, the goddamn 345 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.920 good And I said, excuse me, you really shouldn't use 346 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:02.039 the Lord's name in vain. This guy flicking off. It 347 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.000 just was so pissed off of me. And what had 348 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.720 happened was in our unit, one of somebody got really 349 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.839 pissed off at the company commander, which was the before 350 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:15.000 I got there, and blew his foot off. So they 351 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:17.680 lost the company banner and they got a new commander 352 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:19.559 ab at the same time I came in. So I 353 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.200 come in a little too clean, a little too like, 354 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:25.920 I didn't cuss and everything like that. And now I 355 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:28.759 got the guy who's got the biggest body count in 356 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.880 our unit pissed off at me and like so he 357 00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:36.279 So it wasn't a few weeks later that I was 358 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.319 I had to go. We had an AMMO bunker, we 359 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:39.880 had to go. I'd go down to the AMMA bunker. 360 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.319 I was told to go the AMMO bunker and and 361 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.559 we had a machine gun nest thing that we would 362 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:47.599 man all night long. And so I go to get 363 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:49.640 all of the claym wars and all that, and you 364 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.319 had to climb down into this bunker and it was 365 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:54.680 dug in the ground. We had tons of C four 366 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:58.480 and all kinds of shit inside this thing. And I 367 00:19:58.519 --> 00:20:01.559 get in there, and I and I find the claym wars. 368 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:06.319 As I pull it, like a Thermo grenade starts cooking off. 369 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.160 And I had no time. I had like just dropped 370 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.160 everything and just made my way up. I had to 371 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.680 go out through the sink and Dixie dog or on 372 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:17.079 this dog, she came over to see why I was there. 373 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.000 I wanted to get some food, and I grabbed a 374 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.039 hold of her and I ran like fifteen feet. There 375 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.079 was a bunker and I jumped in this bunker and 376 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.279 then was like the whole earth blew up. That thing 377 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.119 blew up and had PCP covering on top of the 378 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:34.759 sand bags, and that shit was bouncing down and bouncing around, 379 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.480 and hand grenades were cooking off, machine gun amma was flying. 380 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.319 You know, everything was cooking off. And the commander of 381 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:47.000 the AT Eagle called in to see. He thought the 382 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.200 North VIETNAMESEID did an air strike because it was such 383 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:54.359 a big explosion. You know. It was me so in 384 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.680 through the clouds, I come walking. I finally I like 385 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.759 make my way through. I still got Dixie had scrambled 386 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.880 out of my arms, and I still have her dog tag. 387 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.839 I still have it today. And I walked out and 388 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:12.400 went like, uh, hello, it's okay. I mean, what do 389 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:14.559 you say when you when you blew up all of 390 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:15.240 our ambience? 391 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:17.920 I think the correct answer was the NVA got us. 392 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:19.240 We had sappers in the wire. 393 00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:24.799 I didn't think about that. I wanted to use, but 394 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:28.880 I had no I just went eh. It was uh. 395 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:30.640 That was a nightmare because I had to go down 396 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.160 and explain what had happened to these these young second 397 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.680 lieutenants that were in S two or something. 398 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:42.160 And anyway, this time of year, the pace doesn't slow down, 399 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:46.400 but you still need to. The calendar's packed, the weather's changing, 400 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.880 and your body's reminding you that it's time to rest 401 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.559 and reset. That's where ghost Bed can help. It's a 402 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.599 family run company founded by a team with over twenty 403 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:59.880 years of mattress making expertise. 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Some exclusions apply see site for details. 423 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.000 And thank you ghost bed for sponsoring the show. Please 424 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:17.119 check out the link down the description and support our sponsor. 425 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:23.480 So yeah, thank you to our sponsors. Oh, Larry Uh. 426 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.200 Just to clarify for people out there who have maybe 427 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.440 have not read your book yet or don't know too 428 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.359 much about you know, our military during the Vietnam War, 429 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.079 could you describe what the warps were and what their 430 00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:35.640 mission was? 431 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:40.319 Lourps a long Range Reconnaistance Patrol, and even though we 432 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.039 came seventy fifth Rangers, it was still the same the 433 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:47.599 same tactics. But we would go five six man on 434 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:50.759 a team and there would usually be two teams would 435 00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.920 go out into you know, into a grid square of 436 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.000 several gridge squares that we had gotten intelligence on and 437 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:03.240 we would go out sometimes thirty miles away, you know, 438 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.680 are further away than the line units. So we would 439 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:09.119 be the eyes and ears of the division. You know, 440 00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:12.000 there's different guys that call themselves lerps that were lurks 441 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:15.440 in the division, but they were short, you know, a 442 00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:19.079 REP for infantry units. We were. We would we worked 443 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:22.160 real close with FOB one, which was for Operations Base 444 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.599 one Special Forces guys SOG, and so we shared intel 445 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:28.799 and sometimes we did SOG missions. We didn't even know 446 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:32.319 there were SOG missions, but that mission into the Ashaw 447 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.400 Valley that first time was like a SOG mission, even 448 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:38.599 though you know, we didn't get a T shirt, which 449 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:40.720 I'd love to have, by the way, or the shorts 450 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:44.000 for doing that, but that that was that was our mission. 451 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:48.920 And sometimes it would be ambushes if we would see 452 00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.599 a unit that we could ambush we would do either 453 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:55.519 a hasty ambush or literally go in and set up. 454 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.599 Done that. We've done that before. We're we'll you know, 455 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.759 ambush a unit that's been moving into the area and 456 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:07.160 we're up. We were up in I Corps, which I Corps, 457 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.119 which was way fu Bay out to the Ashaw Valley 458 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:12.279 would have been west. 459 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:17.039 But that's kind of did so tell us that about 460 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:20.200 about your first insertion, your first mission, as I'll work. 461 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.519 They my first you know, what I remember was the 462 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:29.279 helicopter ride because even though I jumped out of planes, 463 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.440 I'd never been in a helicopter and it was kind 464 00:25:32.480 --> 00:25:34.839 of unsettling to be sitting in the center of that 465 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.119 thing and it just lifted up. It was just the 466 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.319 strangest experience. That's what I remembered was well, actually not 467 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.519 what I remember. What I remember was I forgot my rifle, 468 00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:48.720 which is like the most embarrassing you imagine your first mission. 469 00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.400 And I'm all excited and I go down to the 470 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:56.200 to the pad, the launch pad where the helicopters were 471 00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.599 warming up, and I remember the team would going like, uh, 472 00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:05.559 where's your rifle, and We're like and I just turned 473 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:07.480 and I spread it almost like tears are coming down. 474 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.119 My eyes back to my to the hooch, and I grabbed, 475 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.559 you know, grabbed my car fifteen and ran back down. 476 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:16.039 But it was so embarrassing. So I was living through 477 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.440 the shame and then the excitement of the helicopter ride. 478 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.319 And the first mission was uneventful. The second mission was 479 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:28.400 the mission where Linders guys got all shot up. So 480 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:34.680 that was we found this huge bunker complex and I 481 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:39.000 remember this deer was chasing these monkeys. It was weird, 482 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.079 and that it sounded like the whole NVA fifth NBA 483 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.079 Regiment was running down the hill towards us, and we 484 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:48.240 were we had a twelve man we called a heavy team, 485 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.839 and we were waiting to be you know, for all 486 00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.799 these NVA to run into us. And it was this deer. 487 00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:58.240 This deer came by, and then a monkey came by. 488 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:03.359 It was like what so that? And then I was 489 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.640 lucky because I was on. This was Sergeant Burnell, which 490 00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:09.920 is a kind of a famous ranger, eighty second Airborne 491 00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:14.119 Guy's know him there in for life. He led He 492 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:19.279 led that mission because it was it was so it 493 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:21.240 was a big deal as it actually turned out to be. 494 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:27.759 And the other young sergeant got killed in his section. 495 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.400 So we ended up staying out there till they got 496 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:33.359 everybody out, And we ended up staying out there for 497 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.079 like a couple of days. Like we didn't have enough backup. 498 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.680 If we'd got into a big fight like that one 499 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:42.519 team did, we'd have been in a lot of trouble. 500 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.920 So they had a leagh dog and we just laid 501 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.440 in the rain. It was raining, the hardest reign I've 502 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.680 ever seen, and weren so hard to you know. I 503 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.200 just would look up and I couldn't even see my 504 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:55.480 play more minds that I couldn't. You couldn't see that 505 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:58.559 far ahead of you, So we knew that the enemy 506 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.000 couldn't see either, So we just sort of like kicked 507 00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:03.200 back and waited for a couple of days till they 508 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.559 could get a helicopter in and get us. 509 00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:09.839 That was was this the operation where you were you 510 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.680 were wrapped in your in your chow liner and the 511 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:14.920 NBA walked within like six feet of the patrol. 512 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.000 Oh that was like the second mission or something like that. Yeah, 513 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.640 the the that that was a that really I got 514 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.400 a lot of gravitas from that because I had set 515 00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:29.680 up at night and I set I was right on 516 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.880 the edge of the trail and and I had a 517 00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:36.839 poncho liner, and so I kind of it was really cold, 518 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:39.880 and I wrapped myself in the poncho liner and I 519 00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:43.759 actually had I'd set my rifle over here and my 520 00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:46.759 hands were inside, and I heard something. It was like 521 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.559 about four in the morning or something like that, and 522 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.599 I lifted up into a half set up and right 523 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.880 there walking was an MVA soldier. Was like it came 524 00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.240 within just like a meter of of me, and so 525 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:03.519 I just froze. And then the guys were behind me 526 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:05.599 were all you know, they were obviously all frozen too. 527 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.039 And we had something like twenty guys or they said twenty, 528 00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.440 I forget how many. It was a lot walk past. 529 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:14.119 When I got through, I was so glad. I had 530 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.720 done lots of sit ups earlier in my life, so 531 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.480 I was really I had a strong core because I 532 00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:24.880 literally kept a half sit up for fifteen minutes without 533 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:28.359 even a moving a hair. So that was that was 534 00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:32.920 like scary, but it also meant I could take being 535 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:36.359 around enemy really close, which you know, the old guys went, okay, 536 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:38.720 I want him on my team. So that was really 537 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.960 that was. I moved up in. 538 00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:46.720 What do you call it stature. 539 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.759 I'm stature, Yeah, that was the word. I was searching 540 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:54.799 for a stature sometimes, like they would, you know, you 541 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.359 never know how somebody's going to react in combat. And 542 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.680 like everybody thinks, because if you know, they can bench 543 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.480 press hundreds of pounds and they're all in great shape, 544 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:09.839 it means zero means absolutely nothing. The scrowniest looking guys 545 00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:12.400 there are sometimes are the best lurps and the best 546 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:14.920 rangers that can be Hey, they'll never give up. They're 547 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.279 just hard as nails and they're afraid of nothing. But 548 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:21.240 one time we took out a young guy who was 549 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:24.359 smarter than all of us. He was really smart kid, 550 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:28.480 and he freaked out. He ended up shooting up. He 551 00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:31.160 got surrounded. They were surrounded, but we're always surrounded, I 552 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:34.279 mean that's part of the drill. And he got so 553 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:36.680 freaked out he just started firing his M sixteen and 554 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.400 actually shot one of our guys. And I always remember, 555 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:43.240 it's like, you've got to test these guys. You got 556 00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:45.279 to test somebody before you really get on a team. 557 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:49.039 So all of our guys were had been through the 558 00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:53.480 the you know, a test so to speak, you know, 559 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:55.079 going out on a mission, where you're going to be 560 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.319 surrounded and you are there is no infantry coming to 561 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.319 your rescue, except we'd have air rifles that would come, 562 00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.480 you know, once you got into a firefight, but you 563 00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.680 know that still might be thirty minutes away. 564 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.839 Your sector that you talk about, your that your unit 565 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.440 covered in the book was pretty interesting because it encompassed 566 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.319 like some pretty historical areas like the like Hamburger Hill, 567 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:22.319 Ashaw Valley, a few other notable places. It was a 568 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:24.680 pretty am I right to say, it was a pretty 569 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:25.200 hot area. 570 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:27.839 If you didn't get wounded, we used to say you 571 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.960 were gay. I mean, I know that's not probably the 572 00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.000 right thing to say in today's world, but that was 573 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.200 the way we joked around. It was like with the ship, 574 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:42.119 you know, yeah, this was it was. It was teeming. 575 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.960 I mean, if you look at the at the Hocheimen Trail, 576 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.839 the way it came in, it dropped in from Laos 577 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:49.759 right in the Ashaw Valley right over and then they 578 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:54.119 could go into into Waifu Bai on on the rest 579 00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:54.480 of the din. 580 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.160 And Waye City was in that area also. 581 00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:01.680 Yeah, way City was That's where that's where our we 582 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.720 were close to that, that's where our Camp Eagle was 583 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:08.319 was was about five miles from there or something like that, 584 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:12.160 real close, but yeah, it was a hot could you 585 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.079 tell then there was the run Rung Valley. That was 586 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:18.640 another one. You we every almost after the first couple 587 00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:20.839 of minutes, I mean almost every mission I went on, 588 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.079 we get contact, some form of contact, either we would 589 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:27.359 see enemy or we got in a firefight and got 590 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:28.599 shot out one or the other. 591 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:31.720 Could you tell us about the mission. This is kind 592 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:35.559 of an interesting one with the black boxes that they 593 00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:39.119 wanted you to impoint or in place, I should say, 594 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:40.079 mm hmm. 595 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:42.720 When the helicopter got shot down. 596 00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:45.200 Or was that was that on? Was that on the 597 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:48.400 way back? Yeah, if he would just tell us about 598 00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:51.000 that mission? And I thought that was Miller. 599 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.400 Miller was on that with me, and so Miller was 600 00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:57.599 Miller was the sergeant in charge. I was still expected 601 00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:01.000 forward then, and we were planting black boxes and they 602 00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:04.240 were just these black boxes, a little aerial and we 603 00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.880 would you know, they hadn't marked and where they were 604 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.680 going to be. And supposedly if any tanks or heavy 605 00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:15.240 stuff went by there, you know the vibrations, they would 606 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:18.160 call in air strikes. So we'd been doing that for 607 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.720 a couple of days, and the last day we were 608 00:33:21.079 --> 00:33:26.400 leaving and the helicopter takes off and hit a tree 609 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.200 and it lobbed off about three foot of the blade, 610 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:32.480 so this thing and we were way in the hell 611 00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:35.079 up and he couldn't land back down because he was 612 00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:40.200 out over this big canyon, so he just dove dove 613 00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:42.559 the helicopter and it was I don't know if you 614 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:44.200 ever been in a helicopter that lost four foot of the 615 00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.319 rotor blade. It only has that one rotor. It's like 616 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:53.519 you're in a washing machine. And luckily the guy got 617 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.799 or you know, auto rotated the last little bit. But 618 00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:58.960 we had really hard, you know, so hard that everybody 619 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.400 banged up against the up and then banged back down 620 00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:04.599 and then you know, we had It was weird when 621 00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:07.880 that's when something crap, when you crash like that, because 622 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:10.800 you don't have a map for that, you don't know 623 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.199 where you're at, or you don't have your map lined up, 624 00:34:13.239 --> 00:34:15.840 so you're on your own, you know. And so we 625 00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:17.840 had to set up a perimeter around the helicopter and 626 00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:21.280 took forever before they could you know, get a big 627 00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:24.519 another chopper in to pull that one out and Miller 628 00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:26.440 and I were the last two. We stayed to the 629 00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:30.639 very end. But there's this one more story about that 630 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:34.840 that crash. So we come back and and Miller had 631 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:38.719 brought that had picked up a big bone, like a 632 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:44.159 water bison's bone. And I remember we always sort of 633 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:48.719 had this competition, and I said, I could knock with 634 00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:53.679 that bone that canteen cup off Miller's head. So he 635 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.639 stood there and I was back at the end of 636 00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.320 the hooch, and I threw it really hard and it missed. 637 00:34:58.320 --> 00:34:59.760 Of course, it hit him in the head, split his 638 00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.320 head open, and now he's got blood all running down, 639 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.000 so he's making himself like an Indian and he's like, 640 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:07.679 you know, now I know I'm going to catch it 641 00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:11.159 because I have to take the punishment from what I 642 00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:13.800 just did. And you know, I just stand there and 643 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:15.880 Miller threw that thing as hard as he could, and 644 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:18.880 I put my hand up and it hit my hand 645 00:35:18.960 --> 00:35:23.440 and broke my fingers. So now you know we're actually 646 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.079 this would have been an article fifteen if if you know, 647 00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:28.639 we'd have been found out. But we go down to 648 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.079 the age station. Luckily we crashed in the helicopter, so 649 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:34.800 I went, yeah, we were in a terrible helicopter. Helicopter crashed. 650 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.639 Miller's all bleeding and stuff, and I'm, you know, my 651 00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:42.039 finger's broken and so I put on They put me 652 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:44.119 in a like a cast and I cut it down 653 00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.119 and I still trained. And I actually I've got pictures 654 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.119 of me and a McGuire rig and I've got this 655 00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:52.119 cast on my hand. You know, that's how gun ho 656 00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:55.159 we were. I mean, we didn't. You didn't go. You 657 00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:57.280 get to the hospital and you come back to your unit. 658 00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.679 We wanted to go back out and you know, get going, 659 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.280 which is not again what you normally hear, you know 660 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.239 people people say. 661 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:13.039 But yeah, and was this about the time that your 662 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.639 unit started going into Ashaw Valley or was that later? 663 00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:19.719 It was later. We didn't go into the Ashall Valley 664 00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.760 till after I got back from your condo. School. Was March? Okay, 665 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:24.239 what March nineteen sixty nine. 666 00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.679 Let's uh, let's cover that first. I mean, before we 667 00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:29.400 get there, was there any other like notable missions before 668 00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:31.960 Racondo's school that you think are important to bring up. 669 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.519 I mean, I know there was a lot of them. 670 00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:39.159 I mean I sort of felt like I had a 671 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:43.159 sixth sense. We were talking about this earlier, and I 672 00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.239 was and I'd walk point and I would like know 673 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:48.800 when something was going to happen, I would just know it. 674 00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:55.639 And one time stopped and we got off the trail 675 00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:59.400 and I walked. Burford was the team leader at the time, 676 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.760 and so he's he was behind me. And I left 677 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:04.320 and I went into the I just had the speeling. 678 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.119 I went into the jungle and I went around the 679 00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:09.920 trail was was going down this way and I went. 680 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:12.320 So I go around in the jungle and I come 681 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.400 out behind and I was stepping over this log and 682 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:19.559 I looked down and I started counting. You know, NVA 683 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.039 was like I just froze and just stopped breathing. Stop. 684 00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:26.960 I mean, I had my car fifteen, but I couldn't. 685 00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:30.360 I couldn't. I lost count of the number of guys 686 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:32.480 that were sitting on the ground. They were talking to 687 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:34.840 each other, and one guy sort of heard me and 688 00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:36.960 he even turned around and he looked for right at me. 689 00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:39.880 But you know, we had total camouflage on. We had 690 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:43.199 tiger fatigues on. So I had blended in. And you know, 691 00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.639 you just don't think some white Americans going to show up, 692 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:49.760 you know, in the jungle when they didn't even hear us, 693 00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.599 but we would have walked into an ambush. But I 694 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:56.679 walked around behind him, and so I literally I made 695 00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:58.880 the decision not to fire them up because I was 696 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.280 too close. I literally could reach down and go, excuse me, 697 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.320 you guys are now going to shoot you. So you know, 698 00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:10.440 I just held my fire and backed up. And Burford 699 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.360 remembered looking. He said he counted the number of of 700 00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.000 cooks on the ground in my eyes. He could tell 701 00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:19.639 that I saw something because my eyes were like gigantically big. 702 00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:21.599 I'd never seen any you know, a thing like this. 703 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.239 So we go back and we we set up, and 704 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:30.079 Looney called in an extraction. Helicopter called in for an extraction. 705 00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:33.039 And I was sitting at this bush and I started thinking, 706 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.760 did I imagine it? Did I imagine? I mean, that 707 00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:39.800 couldn't have been true. And then sudden, then suddenly a 708 00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.199 guy pops up and he was about fifteen meters away, 709 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:44.760 which is not that far, And he popped up and 710 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:48.599 he had glasses and he was like looking around, looking 711 00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:51.239 at the trail that I had left. As I ran 712 00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.880 like a little girl out of there, and he like tracked, 713 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:55.719 and I remember he was like looking right at me, 714 00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:00.239 and I was like, perfont was over talking, Okay, what 715 00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.880 we're gonna do with Barbara Book, and I'm going they're 716 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.000 looking at me. So Berba came over and said, and 717 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:09.119 I saw the one, the guy with the glasses took 718 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:11.079 his glasses down and I saw him talking to one 719 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.039 of his guys and he go he goes like that 720 00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.159 which meant to flank us. And this guy took he 721 00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.199 had a like an American parachute, which is a camouflage parachute, 722 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:23.000 and he flicked it once and put it over his 723 00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.480 head and he disappeared, and I went like, my heart 724 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:27.760 is like now I can't see him, but I know 725 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.880 this guy is coming around, you know, going to flank us. 726 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:33.719 And so you know, Burford goes, okay, here's what we're 727 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:41.000 gonna do. And we had six guys. Uh, Chambers now 728 00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.079 going to stay behind on the count of three. Your 729 00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:44.639 guys are going to take up running. And I remember 730 00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.519 saying like, what if Chambers doesn't get to stay behind 731 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:49.679 what we had to count and I get to go 732 00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:54.519 shut up? And so he goes. I don't know, I 733 00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:57.239 had a weird sense of humor and circumstances. He was 734 00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.719 one two three, and we literally had to stand up 735 00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:02.440 because it was a brush right there and like fired 736 00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.159 up the guys that were in that that were before 737 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.920 they shot at us. And so that that was I 738 00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:09.400 never forgot that mission. 739 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:12.840 And then you guys, I think it broke contact to 740 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:14.679 the to the l C and got out of there. 741 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:18.039 Yeah, we got out of there. And then then they 742 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:23.679 bring in what's called what was our reactionary. 743 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:28.119 Force the yes, I skedf it would have been like 744 00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.199 the mic force or a like. 745 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:33.320 Same same yeah, yeah, same same type thing. 746 00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:38.400 Uh all right, let's uh, let's talk about Recondo School 747 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.239 because that's you know, the title of your book, Racondo, 748 00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:43.079 and in a couple of chapters in the book are 749 00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.559 all about it. I mean, that was a very unique 750 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:49.079 course that was held in Vietnam. Could you tell us, 751 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:52.159 you know, why did why did you go? Why did 752 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:53.920 you get sent? What was the what was the school 753 00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:54.400 all about? 754 00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.800 Well, the school was actually called MAC the fifth Special 755 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.039 Forces Recondo School, and the it was actually Westmoreland's uh 756 00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:11.239 Pride and Joeyce School in the in the Army. That's 757 00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:14.079 me right there. That came from that was that tape 758 00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:17.000 I told you that they'd found. Yeah, that's me back 759 00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:19.039 then my hat's a little bit too small. Then you 760 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.679 get kicked out of school. Well, what made it really 761 00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:26.199 interesting is that we ran through. There's my guide that 762 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.480 got the Vimmese guy right there on the bottom left. 763 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:31.760 He's a great guy. If you ever go to Vietnam, 764 00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:32.599 I'll give you his name. 765 00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:35.360 Yeah, and check out check out Wharry's He has a 766 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.199 YouTube channel. Just type in Larry Chambers and it'll come up, 767 00:41:38.199 --> 00:41:40.280 and he has a bunch of cool videos on there 768 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.159 that you guys can check out. I'm sorry. 769 00:41:42.320 --> 00:41:45.920 There's also Yeah, there's also a website called Larry and 770 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:48.320 that's dash Chambers dot com and I have a whole 771 00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:51.840 bunch of stuff. So so the first week they try 772 00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.320 to weed out the guys that aren't physically strong and 773 00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:57.440 you're tired. I mean, you've been in. You you took 774 00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:59.880 First of all, it was an invitation only you got 775 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:03.079 it invited, but you were and you were sent by 776 00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:04.679 your unit. So it was a kind of a big 777 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:06.480 deal to get sent there because that meant you were 778 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.360 going to be a team leader when you came back, 779 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:13.079 and so it was real honor to go. But everybody 780 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:17.199 was nervous because of the swim, the dreaded swim. There 781 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.719 was the run. The run was so you get through 782 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:22.559 the run, but on the second week they had the 783 00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.119 swim and there was a lot of stuff that you 784 00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:27.079 were doing. It was NonStop. I mean you're up till 785 00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.559 late at night and you know, all training all day long. 786 00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:35.199 You know, jump, you know, practicing McGuire rigs and repelling 787 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.760 and you know everything that any good you know, combat 788 00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:43.239 unit would train you for first aid, you know where 789 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:47.000 you'd have to give yourself serving album or at least 790 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:50.480 know how to give yourself. But they had big needles 791 00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:52.440 back then, so there was lots of blood everywhere when 792 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:54.360 we went through that part of the course. But the 793 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:57.360 swim you'd have to swim out two hundred meters and 794 00:42:57.440 --> 00:42:59.840 at the time I was like a lousy swimmer and 795 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:03.840 I didn't know really how to swim, and I just 796 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:07.559 sort of side thing. But if you touch there was 797 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:11.559 this two Special Forces sergeants out in this pontoon boat 798 00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.000 out in the ocean, and you had to swim around 799 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.719 it and swim all the way back. And that eliminated 800 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:18.800 a lot of guys if they couldn't make the swim. 801 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:23.320 I just remember how exhausting. It was because you also 802 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.079 ran that day and you do a lot of stuff, 803 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:28.440 and so go through all of that and then we 804 00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:30.800 come to the last day. And this is what gives 805 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.079 it the distinction of the only School of the Armies 806 00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:35.400 ever had where you could get killed in it. A 807 00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:39.039 lot of the buildings were named after, you know, guys 808 00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:42.679 that were killed in the school. You know. They because 809 00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:48.280 we did a live alert mission and you would rotate 810 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.519 at each point. So they wanted you to, you know, 811 00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:53.119 be a team leader. They wanted you to be a 812 00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:54.519 slack man. They wanted you to be a point man. 813 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:56.159 They wanted you to be very secure, you know, you 814 00:43:56.199 --> 00:44:00.960 go through the whole thing. So the first two days 815 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:04.039 were out there and it's like just a normal alert mission. 816 00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:10.599 And this mission was pulled near La Trange and on 817 00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:18.039 the train and suddenly I'm walking along and I walk 818 00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.079 into you know, four or five guys sitting in the middle. 819 00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:22.880 There was probably it was way more than that, because 820 00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:27.719 we found like ten or fifteen backpacks. But I so 821 00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.000 I fired them up and I turned around and the 822 00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:33.119 guy that behind me took off running. He broke the protocol. 823 00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:36.880 The protocol you know, is I sit down the line fire, 824 00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:39.079 the next guy does and he took off and it 825 00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:41.400 got the other guy where. You know, we didn't know 826 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.480 who these guys were that were in our school, and 827 00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:45.599 so I watched these two guys running back of the 828 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:48.159 juggle and I'm still out there. So I hit the 829 00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:51.440 ground and I just you know, kept putting fire down 830 00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:55.920 until suddenly on the school we'd have two instructors that 831 00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:57.960 would go out with us, and Louis La Page. I 832 00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.360 could still just remember he was just like he was 833 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:04.519 like God, he was like the toughest guy I'd ever 834 00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:06.119 seen in my life. And he comes running through the jung, 835 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:09.320 doesn't care about bullets. Screw a bullet. He's got a 836 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:13.559 he's got his. He's he carried a thumper, you know 837 00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:16.199 in m seventy nine, and he shoots the shoots at 838 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:17.679 it and it hit the tree and I remember going 839 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.079 like over my head like it didn't go off because 840 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:22.840 it didn't go far enough to arm. And he's he's 841 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:26.599 So he comes out where I'm and we both fire 842 00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:31.079 and maneuver back. And so he was furious at the 843 00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:33.800 guys that ran. He was so pissed off, and he 844 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:37.960 goes chambers. You and and my slack man, you're gonna 845 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.599 walk us back there? Oh my god, why do I 846 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:43.000 keep getting myself where I'm gonna get? Do good? Now 847 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:46.519 I have to go back in there, and so I was, 848 00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:49.840 so I so we went back later that same day 849 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:53.840 and I'm walking along and suddenly this North vietn East 850 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:56.159 guy walked right out in front of me and just 851 00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:58.440 like that, and he looked at me, and I looked 852 00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:00.559 at him, and he started to run, and I took 853 00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:02.480 off running and I ran after him, and I tackled 854 00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:04.719 him like a football tackle, and I got him down 855 00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.119 on the ground. And matter of fact, Lapage was a 856 00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:08.719 little pissed off at me, because that's not what you're 857 00:46:08.719 --> 00:46:10.360 supposed to do. You're supposed to fire him up. But 858 00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:12.039 I could see the guy didn't have a weapon. I 859 00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:13.960 was gonna shoot an unarmed guy, so I figured I 860 00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:16.480 could tackle him. And he turned out to be this 861 00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:21.280 young lieutenant. I've still got his I have it right here. 862 00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:24.159 I brought it to show. But this was the belt 863 00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:25.920 buckle that he was wearing. 864 00:46:26.119 --> 00:46:29.519 To see if you can see that, an NVA belt buckle. 865 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:33.760 NVA bell puckal. So he was and I've actually tried 866 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:36.199 to find that guy in my trips back to Vietnam. 867 00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:41.679 But that so we captured this I captured this NBA 868 00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:44.480 officer like I thought, I was the hero of the day. 869 00:46:44.519 --> 00:46:47.119 And we get back and it was like, no, we 870 00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:49.960 give it, you know, it was like, you know, business 871 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:52.719 as usual. Well he captured. It was like no, this 872 00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.239 is special Forces. This isn't like Tinker toys, you know. 873 00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:00.239 And I but but Lapage ended up getting me a 874 00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:02.400 r an art of why I got seven D eight, 875 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:04.679 you know, for doing that, So I was all happy 876 00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:05.679 for that. 877 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.840 Yeah. I mean I think Ken Miller and I think 878 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:14.000 yourself both you know, killed enemy in Racondo school, but 879 00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.360 I mean you actually captured an enemy, which is like 880 00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:19.679 exceedingly rare. I mean everyone was try to do that. 881 00:47:20.440 --> 00:47:24.159 Yeah. Yeah, this was just totally an accident. Actually, when 882 00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:27.320 I've written back to try to find this guy, because 883 00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:29.639 I always hoped he turned out to be you know, 884 00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:31.920 would do good, you know something. And I even went 885 00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:35.239 to Condal, which is an island where they sent all 886 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:38.559 the prisoners to try to I know, this delusion of 887 00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:40.280 grandeur that I could try to find this guy. But 888 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:48.800 we the you know, they brought in the MIC force, 889 00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:50.199 like you said, they brought all that she did. So 890 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:52.599 suddenly was around like three hundred guys and you know, 891 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:54.679 we're all surrounded by all these guys and they were 892 00:47:55.159 --> 00:48:01.000 they would they were interviewing my prisoner, and the southeam 893 00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:05.000 knees were you know, they would just step on his ball, 894 00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:07.079 you know, like I would see these movies where they 895 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:11.639 they're you know, you've got how do you torture somebody 896 00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:15.760 to you know, use that waterboarding on? They just stepped 897 00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:17.920 on the guy's nuts with their boots and the guy 898 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:22.159 was going like, oh, he was telling everything. So that 899 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.199 pissed me off. This guy was being tortured. So me 900 00:48:25.880 --> 00:48:29.079 and my slack guy Duty, that was his name, Duty, 901 00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.480 we go over and we I don't know if Duty 902 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:35.440 pushed the arvind guy away, but we kind of protected 903 00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:37.840 the guy all night. He was ours. We risked our 904 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:39.760 life to captures. We're gonna let the southeat and he's 905 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:43.920 kill him because they were just butcherers. They were, you know, terrible. 906 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:49.000 And then they took him back. They actually took him 907 00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:55.320 up in a McGuire rigg or yah McGuire rig out 908 00:48:56.519 --> 00:49:00.880 and then I So that was my three weeks in 909 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.880 Ricondo school which was it was hard. It was really 910 00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:06.960 and I thought a lot of guys. I thought everybody 911 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:09.559 that went there graduated, and I'd find out later the 912 00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:12.079 guys that a lot of them that went there and 913 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:15.440 they didn't graduate. But nobody tells you that just they 914 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:17.320 didn't get the Ricondo patch. 915 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.960 Uh, we have some questions and I'm actually struggling to 916 00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:27.800 pull it up. You have them to Sorry, we have 917 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.840 we have some audience questions for you as well, Warry. 918 00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:32.559 I'm sorry. 919 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.719 I didn't mean to at these from nor are they 920 00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:36.920 North Viamanes. 921 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:41.480 Possibly possibly so U has one. 922 00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:45.719 I still have your book Death in the Asha Valley 923 00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:47.639 from sand Hill p X from O. 924 00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:49.480 S U. T At Benning. 925 00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.119 As Jack said, a lot of us going into BAT 926 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:55.199 always strive to be better, wanted to live up to 927 00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:57.480 the legacies you guys created. Thank you for coming on, 928 00:49:57.800 --> 00:49:58.559 Sua Sponte. 929 00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:02.960 Mm hmm, Salandra, we have. 930 00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:05.880 A few more, Okay, you want to get him at 931 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:06.159 the end. 932 00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:09.599 Yeah, okay, so yeah, there's no questions there, that's just. 933 00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:12.239 Yeah, well we'll we'll, we'll get We'll get to a 934 00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:15.840 few more towards the end of the interview. So yeah, 935 00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:18.000 you kept the guy's belt and his belt buckle and 936 00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:19.159 ward after that, right. 937 00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:21.960 Oh yeah, yeah, well I stripped him immediately of his 938 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:25.280 belt buckle because that I got offered five hundred dollars 939 00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:28.639 for that by a leg officer and Saigon, you know, 940 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:29.960 but I wouldn't give it up. 941 00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:36.480 And when you did finally graduate from Ricondo school, you 942 00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:38.159 go get back to your unit and now you're a 943 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:38.719 team leader. 944 00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:42.400 Yeah, so you go back and you're you're a team leader, 945 00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:49.480 and I well, I wasn't well, I was a team leader, 946 00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:56.880 but that came later. That lightning mission happened shortly and 947 00:50:57.199 --> 00:50:59.760 they made me a sergeant and I was on r 948 00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:03.159 So some time went by and then suddenly they brought 949 00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:05.840 It was like they wanted to get and it sounds egotistical, 950 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:07.440 but the best of the best. So they got a 951 00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:09.760 bunch of us guys. We're all sergeants and we're going 952 00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:13.239 to go on the first alert mission back in the 953 00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:15.960 Ashaw Valley. The last time anybody had been in there 954 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:18.159 was the one seventy third and they lost thirty seven 955 00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:21.159 helicopters in so many minutes. So it was a bad 956 00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:25.079 place to go. And you know, we were just starting 957 00:51:25.119 --> 00:51:29.000 to build all of the different firebases on the way 958 00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:31.760 out to the Ashaw Valley, and so they wanted us 959 00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:34.920 to They wanted ice and years out there. So we 960 00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:41.360 spent five days on the border and hearing at night. 961 00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:44.039 We would in the daytime we would see hundreds of 962 00:51:44.119 --> 00:51:50.320 North Vietnese in the valley, and then at night we 963 00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:53.880 would hear cutting wood. And I showed you, you know, 964 00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:57.159 from going back what I brought back. I guess I 965 00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:01.199 could show it now. Yeah, so I'd gone back to 966 00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:04.119 Amburger Hiller, close to where we where we were. We 967 00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:06.719 got struck by lightning, believe it or not, on our 968 00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:09.159 last day of the mission, and we're all like paralyzed. 969 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:12.679 And luckily, I mean we lost Calma. We had one 970 00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:20.199 radio that Colmo finally and the you know they they 971 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:24.559 we got out in penetrators. That was what they sent down. 972 00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:27.800 It was a basket for Lender and then the penetrators 973 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:28.480 for the rest of us. 974 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:31.960 That struck like blew up your grenades and claym wars 975 00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:32.400 and everything. 976 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:36.000 Oh it blew. Yeah, we had all of our claim luckily. 977 00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.800 Just before that happened. I remember reading the back of 978 00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:41.920 my claim more mind thinking like that's a little too 979 00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:44.000 close and reading the back of it, so I went 980 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:46.599 down and I moved it out further. When this lightning hit. 981 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:48.880 I just remember this white light and there was like 982 00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.719 no sound for like a multi exilient of a second 983 00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.840 a flash, and then I remember going up in the 984 00:52:55.880 --> 00:53:01.199 air and blowing blown into a thousand pieces, this deathening sound, 985 00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:05.400 and then hitting the ground, which seemed like later like 986 00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:07.760 I always thought I was blown in pieces. And then 987 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.039 God went like, ah, not ready yet, and then put 988 00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:11.719 me back together, threw me back down on the ground. 989 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:15.280 So I land like down this hill, and I can 990 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:17.760 remember I could move and I looked down at my 991 00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:22.039 legs and smoke was coming off my clothes and it 992 00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:26.119 was like I couldn't move, but I could move my arms, 993 00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:28.199 and I finally kind of got my senses back. I 994 00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:30.280 had no rifle, I didn't know where I was, and 995 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.000 I crawled. This is the scaredest I'd ever been in Vietnam. 996 00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:37.519 I never really got that scared, but this scared me. 997 00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:40.119 I crawled back up the hill and I look around 998 00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:44.280 and where we were was all a burnt out circle, 999 00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:48.480 and no one was there. They were all also blown away. 1000 00:53:48.679 --> 00:53:51.639 But I for a few minutes it seemed like an eternity. 1001 00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:55.480 I was like, oh my god, I am alone here. 1002 00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:57.719 You know, I'm going to get my throat cut. Where's 1003 00:53:57.719 --> 00:54:01.000 my rifle? And I so I start started looking around 1004 00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:03.599 and I found my clacker. Clacker is what you used 1005 00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:06.239 to blow hard plastic. I don't know if you use 1006 00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.800 those for play wars, but it's a hard plastic was melted. 1007 00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:13.000 So we figured the lightning came down through the antenna. 1008 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:17.199 The radio man and put this antenna up in a thunderstorm, 1009 00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:21.280 questionable for that, and sent we had to send a 1010 00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:23.519 sit rep. And when he did, the lightning went down 1011 00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:26.480 and it didn't hit us directly or what it killed us, 1012 00:54:26.519 --> 00:54:33.679 but we got not only the explosion. Gary Linder's backpack 1013 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:36.360 had a percussion grade and then that blew up, so 1014 00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:39.199 we got that and then the backblast from all of 1015 00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:41.039 the claim wars that were around us. So we got 1016 00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:43.679 the backblast and that's probably why we were all in 1017 00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:47.639 some form of paralysis for some of us for a day. 1018 00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.159 You know, d you write that when the radio man 1019 00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:52.840 clicked the hand mike to set up the sit rep, 1020 00:54:52.840 --> 00:54:54.000 that was when the lightning struck. 1021 00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:57.280 That's when the lightning hit. Yeah, And I just remember 1022 00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.239 just this white light, which is kind of scary when 1023 00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:02.840 you think about it. I am dead, and I kind 1024 00:55:02.840 --> 00:55:05.199 of was. I kind of just remember the last thing 1025 00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:08.400 I said was fuck. I mean, it was pissed me off. 1026 00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:11.199 I mean why, you know, like the last day of 1027 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:13.320 the mission or something. I just didn't want to get 1028 00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:19.440 blown up. I mean. Anyway, So long story short, in 1029 00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.360 twenty fifteen, I go back and hire a guide and 1030 00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.519 go back to the Hamburger Hill and I climb up 1031 00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:27.920 to the top and I'm looking all around and they've 1032 00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:30.840 got it really laid out cool. They've built steps up, 1033 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:34.159 there's a like a little shack down below, or tells 1034 00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:36.559 the history of it, and of course the North throw 1035 00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:40.599 you know, first liar wins or second liar. But they 1036 00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:43.400 tell how they defeated the enemy, you know, they defeated us, 1037 00:55:43.400 --> 00:55:45.840 and which was bullshit. You know, it didn't ever happen. 1038 00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:48.559 And so at the top of the hill there's a 1039 00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:54.119 topa and you know, dedicated to their guys that died 1040 00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:56.199 up there, because they lost a lot of guys and 1041 00:55:56.239 --> 00:55:58.719 we you know, you know, we had the third of 1042 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:01.119 the one eighty seventh was that went up there and 1043 00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:05.159 they lost like eighty seven. I mean, it was a 1044 00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:07.519 hundred guys wound. I mean it was. It was so bad. 1045 00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:10.679 We didn't get paid for our pay skipped a month 1046 00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:14.280 because you know, the guys that did pay and graves registration, 1047 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.440 graves registration were the same guys, so they were backed 1048 00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:21.000 up from that one, you know, from Hamburger Hill. So 1049 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:24.000 I wanted to go up and look around. I'm digging 1050 00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:29.679 around and I find this, which is a log that 1051 00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:33.559 was in a bunker, and I and I just I 1052 00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:37.119 stuck at my backpack and I thought, wow, I wonder, 1053 00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:41.239 I'll bet I heard those guys cutting that log. You know, 1054 00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:44.039 back then we could have heard them because that's where 1055 00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:46.599 we think we were hit was on that was somewhere 1056 00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:48.400 on that hill. I mean, it's a kind of a 1057 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:53.119 long hill. And it's it's fun to go back to 1058 00:56:53.159 --> 00:56:57.960 those places because you you would never know, you know, 1059 00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:00.960 because the jungle covers everything up. Fires are all covered over. 1060 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:05.039 I couldn't find Camp Eagle. I found the graveyards that 1061 00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:08.320 we used to that were close biased, but so much 1062 00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:14.559 except except the Hamburger Hill. They the enemy is preserved. 1063 00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:19.000 The enemy. They're not our enemy. The Vietnamese have preserved that, 1064 00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:22.320 you know as a site, you know, like they did 1065 00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.559 Dinbin Foo. You go to all these cool places. The 1066 00:57:25.639 --> 00:57:32.039 museums are just amazing. But that was that was that. 1067 00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:36.800 So then I neils to say I was kind of 1068 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.800 nervous about going out after that mission. I was, and 1069 00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:41.639 I went out a couple of times and I started 1070 00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:45.519 overseeing things because I was waiting for the next shooting round. 1071 00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:47.840 I'd never been in an well, it was the second 1072 00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:50.760 explosion i'd been in, but I'd never been in anything 1073 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:53.719 like that before, and so I was probably a little 1074 00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:57.639 bit freaked out. So I thought I would do something safe. 1075 00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:01.440 So I started flying belly and you know, which turned 1076 00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:04.760 out to be not as so safe because we were 1077 00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:05.880 taking fire all the time. 1078 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.599 And that's where what does that mean for folks out there? 1079 00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:10.880 What does it mean to be okay? 1080 00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:13.360 Every ranger team LERP team has to have one of 1081 00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:16.880 their own guys in the helicopter to you know, to 1082 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:19.320 help them get in and out of the helicopter. So 1083 00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:22.400 you got all this backpack on and your your AMMO 1084 00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:25.880 and your guns, and you've got one guy that like you. 1085 00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:29.119 You had to be Ricondo trained, so you know, I qualified. 1086 00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:30.840 You had to be able to put the ropes together, 1087 00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:36.760 rope ladders, wire rigs, everything, and that's your job. You're 1088 00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:38.480 in the back, the two pilots in the front, and 1089 00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:41.679 the two door grunners on the side. And so that's 1090 00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:45.599 when Miller's team was in a They were in the 1091 00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:50.159 second helicopter that they went out to pick up Miller's team, 1092 00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:53.039 and I guess they got shot down and they help. 1093 00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:55.559 The blade went through one of the guys in Miller's 1094 00:58:55.559 --> 00:59:00.320 team's head killed him, and so then we fly over 1095 00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:03.760 and we get shot at. So we I still remember 1096 00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:07.119 tracers going up, you know, the open window, every door 1097 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.039 is open. The treasure will go by like that, and 1098 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:12.679 the chopper goes around and all this stuff. And so 1099 00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:14.639 we came back in and we had to make four 1100 00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:21.440 separate extractions trips, and so I would throw the as 1101 00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:24.960 we were coming in because the helicopter had crashed and 1102 00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:27.800 the guys had to climb up on the crash helicopter 1103 00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.760 to get in. So I sort of helped him back 1104 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:32.440 the helicopter in. I don't know if you know what 1105 00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:34.599 I mean, like sort of like I got out on 1106 00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:37.639 I threw the rope ladder out and then I climbed 1107 00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:40.000 down on the skid. I climbed out on the skid 1108 00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:43.199 and I would I could see the pilot and I could, 1109 00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:45.000 you know, hear him and talk to him all that, 1110 00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:46.880 and I would say, okay, we're all you know. I 1111 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.480 was talking to him while the door gunners were watching 1112 00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:53.519 out to the side. And so when I came in, 1113 00:59:55.159 --> 00:59:57.400 we took some fire and I didn't have my rifle 1114 00:59:57.400 --> 00:59:59.880 because I'm standing outside the helicopter. So I flipped the 1115 01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:03.039 to this North VIETNSE guy that was shooting Atison, which 1116 01:00:03.079 --> 01:00:05.719 Miller remembers that everybody on the ground was cheering and 1117 01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.440 they thought it was so cool. They wanted to seem 1118 01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.320 to get shot off of the off of the skid 1119 01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:12.360 would have been really that would have that would have 1120 01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.480 made their day. But he missed and I went in 1121 01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:18.079 and I'm joking worse, you know, And I helped the 1122 01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:20.400 guys in and I got my I got an air 1123 01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:24.039 Medal with a V for valor for that mission and 1124 01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:26.760 that means my proudest medal. 1125 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:29.719 It sounded pretty dicey, I mean, like you was it. 1126 01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:33.880 You and Miller were like the last two guys out. Yeah, yeah, 1127 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:36.039 it's been your How and how long were you guys? 1128 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:38.920 On the ground, you tube by yourselves, waiting for the well. 1129 01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:41.519 Miller was on the ground with another with one with 1130 01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:43.559 his radio guy, and I was still in the helicopter. 1131 01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:45.320 I would take everybody back and then I would come 1132 01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:47.679 back in the helicopter. But Miller stayed on the ground 1133 01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:51.519 for like thirty wid to refuel, which was scary because 1134 01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:54.840 all they had was kobra Is flying above them they 1135 01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:57.840 could talk to. But you know, and then we finally 1136 01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:00.840 we got out there, and I we couldn't wait to 1137 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:02.559 get out. I couldn't wait to get it over with. 1138 01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:06.440 And I was I had so much adrenaline pumpin and 1139 01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.920 Miller is so light. I was on that ladder and 1140 01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:11.920 I get down and you know the old Yuwie's from 1141 01:01:11.960 --> 01:01:17.800 the from the from the skids to up inside. It's 1142 01:01:18.039 --> 01:01:19.920 it's a jump. I mean it's a hike. I mean 1143 01:01:19.960 --> 01:01:21.559 it's a I don't know how many feet, it's a 1144 01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:24.559 couple of feet. And I was so pumped. I grabbed 1145 01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:26.639 Miller by the back of his web here and brewing 1146 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:29.920 almost out. He landed and almost flew out the other 1147 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.679 side of the helicopter. It was like so stoked to 1148 01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:34.960 you know, not that I was so strong, but I 1149 01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:38.239 was just you know, like all hot, hyped up. 1150 01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:42.559 And that by this point you're starting to get kind 1151 01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:44.960 of short too, right as far as time. 1152 01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:48.000 In the war exactly. So what I did was I 1153 01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:51.760 started taking radio relay missions and I would do like 1154 01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:54.800 I was on ripcord when they got hit, and and 1155 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:57.639 that was an amazing thing. I'd never been around the infantry, 1156 01:01:57.679 --> 01:01:59.480 and it never want to be around infantry. And again 1157 01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:02.519 scare because you're sort of trapped on a hill. You know. 1158 01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:04.679 I'm used to hiding in the bushes or something or 1159 01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:07.559 flying away, but they had to stay there and fight, like, 1160 01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:09.920 oh my god, when's this night going to get over with? 1161 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:14.000 You know, it was like freaky. But anyway, I then 1162 01:02:14.039 --> 01:02:16.639 at the end they asked me to go and recruit guys, 1163 01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:19.519 which is they usually do for the actually the better 1164 01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:21.519 looking guys. They asked to go do it. So I 1165 01:02:21.519 --> 01:02:23.519 don't think Miller got asked or Linda, I know, didn't 1166 01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:26.880 get asked to go do that, you know, because they 1167 01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:29.199 wanted you to represents the Rangers. 1168 01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:31.760 Could could you tell us a little bit about how 1169 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.320 like your unit and how the war changed during your 1170 01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:37.480 time there, because I remember you writing your book about 1171 01:02:37.480 --> 01:02:41.960 how your sector, your AO like drastically expanded as time 1172 01:02:41.960 --> 01:02:44.880 went on, and they started like you guys were getting 1173 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:48.599 teams were getting inserted sometimes twice a day, making Oh yeah, 1174 01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:50.199 it sounded like insanity. 1175 01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:55.840 Well this was to our wonderful President Richard Nixon, just 1176 01:02:56.280 --> 01:03:01.559 the nicest guy you'd ever wanted meet. I still I'm 1177 01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:04.239 not a group might. I remember having a dream one 1178 01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:06.079 time that I got to go dig up his body 1179 01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:08.280 and I was going to drag it back anyway. That 1180 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:11.480 was another story. But you know, he had said he 1181 01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:16.440 had ran in the sixty eight election on to say 1182 01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.960 pull the troops out, which he did. But when he 1183 01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:22.280 it was a trick for us. It was a trick 1184 01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:24.719 because all they pulled out all of these companies and 1185 01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:29.280 they expanded RAO, so we ended up halving Rio like 1186 01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:32.719 quadrupled in size. I mean, they were flying all by 1187 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:35.679 the time we'd left in seventy you know, they were 1188 01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:40.360 they were flying you know, from oh all over the 1189 01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:45.360 place in the in I Corps. But they just it 1190 01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:51.719 the reason why I didn't volunteer to go back because 1191 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.159 as you can see in my I'm sort of gone. 1192 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.440 I was sort of gunn home. But we got this 1193 01:03:57.559 --> 01:04:01.719 young second lieutenant and he you know, just out of 1194 01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:04.639 jump school and officers school and all kinds of school things. 1195 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:06.960 And he goes and so he takes me out on 1196 01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:10.960 We go on a reconnt in helicopter. We go out 1197 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:14.440 looking for a DZ and I said, you mean an 1198 01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:16.760 l Z, sir, And he goes, no, he drops the 1199 01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:20.480 DZ and I go why. He goes, well, you're a paratrooper, right, 1200 01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:23.800 you go. I am like, I didn't jump out of 1201 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:27.440 a plane in two years, Like, we have to jump. 1202 01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:29.239 You want us to jump out of the help jump 1203 01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.280 out a plane? And he goes, yeah, he had this 1204 01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:34.800 idea where he was gonna it was in the Ashaw 1205 01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:38.679 Valley and he was gonna they were going to pin 1206 01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:41.199 these guys in and then we were going to jump 1207 01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:43.199 in and then we would catch. And I went like, 1208 01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:46.960 you know, I am getting really short here. I think 1209 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:49.639 I need to like find another profession, you know. And 1210 01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:50.719 I don't know what happened that guy. 1211 01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:52.719 Yeah, somebody's hunting for metals. 1212 01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:55.480 Yeah, he was looking. You know. What he wanted was 1213 01:04:55.880 --> 01:04:58.360 to jump with a star. You know, he wanted to 1214 01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:01.840 combat blast because no and nobody have a Special Forces jump. 1215 01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:03.559 I mean you can go down to Tryang and jump 1216 01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:07.000 with them and get your jump your Arvin I mean 1217 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:10.360 your yeah, your Arvan jump wings, but to the combat 1218 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:12.440 blast hadn't been since Korea, so. 1219 01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:16.320 Well you don't you a WORP. No reason is it? 1220 01:05:16.599 --> 01:05:18.000 Is it a mass They're not going to do a 1221 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:21.559 mass tack infantry assault. I mean that doesn't mean it's stupid. 1222 01:05:21.679 --> 01:05:23.039 Yeah, it doesn't make it. And that's what I mean. 1223 01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:25.480 I thought, where are they getting these guys? Because this 1224 01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:28.800 guy was cuckoo. You know, it's like this is not 1225 01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:32.199 our t O and E, not our our our our mission, 1226 01:05:32.239 --> 01:05:33.760 you know, our mission is to go out with five 1227 01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:37.119 six guys and find enemy and tell the other guys, 1228 01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:39.760 tell the good guys where the bad guys are, end 1229 01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:44.079 of the compon not you know, it's not Normandy, We're 1230 01:05:44.119 --> 01:05:45.679 not jump you know. 1231 01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:51.159 So they they sent you on the Berry Saddler recruitment 1232 01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:52.239 drive for a little bit. 1233 01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:57.960 Yeah. Yeah, I went back and recruited guys and I 1234 01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:01.840 would At first, I couldn't get anybody to go because 1235 01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:04.960 I thought I was trying to you know, I was 1236 01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:08.000 what's called being profile and I was like, yeah, I 1237 01:06:08.079 --> 01:06:12.239 was mister Mann. You know, had all the double one 1238 01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:16.119 hundred and first patches on my shoulders and Recondo school 1239 01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:19.559 and had my body count rope and my NVA belt buckle, 1240 01:06:19.639 --> 01:06:21.960 and I thought, surely these guys will see me and 1241 01:06:22.039 --> 01:06:24.679 immediately go, well, I want to be just like you. Instead, 1242 01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:26.360 it was like they couldn't wait to get out of 1243 01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:29.199 that tent. You know. I'd say what we're doing, and 1244 01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:34.239 then finally I would start telling this story about I 1245 01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:37.079 got a map of I Corps and I said, look, 1246 01:06:37.119 --> 01:06:39.280 you know you guys are infantry. I'm gonna tell you 1247 01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:41.920 a story was told to me. You know you're going. 1248 01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:45.199 You're gonna be out either an infantry company and you'll 1249 01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:47.280 be out, could be for a month at a time, 1250 01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:49.840 could be six weeks, whatever it is. Or you might 1251 01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:52.119 get lucky and be on a firebase. You think you're lucky. 1252 01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:54.360 But let me see this map. And I'd hold up 1253 01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:57.320 the map and I go, I could buy this map 1254 01:06:57.480 --> 01:07:00.400 on the black market. So every NVA command has the 1255 01:07:00.440 --> 01:07:04.480 same map. And so I said, look, what the lurps 1256 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:07.320 do is we go out where the enemies we think are. 1257 01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:08.920 They don't know where we are, they don't know where 1258 01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:11.800 we're coming, so they don't see us and we're trying 1259 01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:14.639 to find them. So think about it this way. It's 1260 01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:16.880 safer behind the lines than it is in front of them. 1261 01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:19.119 And three hands went up, and then the next time 1262 01:07:19.159 --> 01:07:20.840 I got and then four hands went up. I got 1263 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:24.000 twenty six guys and refilled, you know, because it had 1264 01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:26.920 to be all volunteer in our in our ranger unit, 1265 01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:29.119 and I refilled it before I left. I was real 1266 01:07:29.159 --> 01:07:34.039 proud of that that I got. You know, figured I 1267 01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:36.199 could sell then I could be a salesman later in 1268 01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:37.119 life or something. 1269 01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:40.840 So tell us about when when you finally finish your 1270 01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:43.559 tour in Vietnam and you know, getting on your freedom bird. 1271 01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:48.599 The fight? Did I talk about the fight I got in? No? 1272 01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:51.519 No, the fight with the guy on the plane? 1273 01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:52.360 Yeah? 1274 01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:53.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1275 01:07:53.599 --> 01:07:57.360 I seem to always get into or start fight. Yeah, fight, Okay, 1276 01:07:57.400 --> 01:07:59.239 So I got in a fight anyway. So we're getting 1277 01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:02.039 ready to go, and this guy was bragging about killing 1278 01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:05.199 killing the googs, and he was talking about he was 1279 01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:07.880 a bus driver. He ran him over. He was bragging 1280 01:08:07.960 --> 01:08:11.679 about how many people he ran over. And so I'm 1281 01:08:11.719 --> 01:08:14.760 sitting on this plane and I could hear the guy talk. 1282 01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.479 And there's always somebody who's gonna listen because if you 1283 01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:20.279 got you know, two hundred guys on the plane coming 1284 01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:23.520 back from Vietnam, one hundred and fifty of them had 1285 01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:26.000 never been in the jungle, and you know a small 1286 01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:28.319 number had been in the infantry, and three guys were 1287 01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:30.960 special for it. I mean, there was like nobody, you know, 1288 01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:34.640 not a lot of guys. You know, there's always somebody 1289 01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:37.479 would listen to some bullshit guy like that. So I 1290 01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:40.159 had had enough. And the guy sitting next to me 1291 01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:42.159 was one seventy third and I said, do you want 1292 01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:43.439 to go kill him? Or will you let me? And 1293 01:08:43.479 --> 01:08:45.000 he goes, you go kill him first, and I'll kill 1294 01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:47.640 him second. So I got and well here's what he did. 1295 01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:50.119 He's at the back of the seven oh seven quick 1296 01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:54.000 and back then the seats where the bathroom was wouldn't 1297 01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:58.319 wouldn't recline, and he was like the Stewart Stewarts, my 1298 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:00.279 seat won't go back, My seat won't go back. So 1299 01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:02.720 I went back there, and I was so fucking mad. 1300 01:09:02.720 --> 01:09:05.039 I'd never been so mad in my life. Probably every 1301 01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:07.439 single thing that had happened and boiled up. And then 1302 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:09.479 and I reached around and I grabbed this guy and 1303 01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:11.840 I went inside of his shirt where I could grab 1304 01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:14.000 his neck. It was kind of a heavy set guy, 1305 01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:15.479 and I pulled him up right in my face and 1306 01:09:15.479 --> 01:09:17.960 I said, you shut up, that fucker. I'm going to 1307 01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:21.039 cut your throat. I mean, just pushed him down as 1308 01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:23.520 hard as I could. And then I come back and 1309 01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:26.960 I remember walking back in the plane, it were all applauding, 1310 01:09:27.039 --> 01:09:30.439 you know it was. I kind of marched back with 1311 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:33.279 one hundred first patches on and sat back down in 1312 01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:35.239 my seat. And that guy never said a word the 1313 01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:37.119 rest of the we need to hear him. I don't 1314 01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:40.880 even even was on the plane after that. But yeah, anyway, 1315 01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:45.079 so when I came back, I wasn't I didn't go, oh, 1316 01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.239 the hippies are make me so sad, I feel so 1317 01:09:48.920 --> 01:09:53.239 what I did, I was like bullshit, I had none. 1318 01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:59.680 I just I would I never had that stuff happen 1319 01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:03.159 to me, just maybe because they wouldn't do it or something, 1320 01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:06.760 but I just didn't. I went back to college and 1321 01:10:07.199 --> 01:10:10.800 University of Utah because I was a non Mormon, but 1322 01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:12.479 I could get I heard, I could get laid there. 1323 01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:15.319 So that was like the most important thing. Oh yeah, 1324 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:17.399 you remember that store. That was another story. 1325 01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:19.760 Yeah, the PostScript of your book is the stewardess on 1326 01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:21.199 that airplane on the ride. 1327 01:10:21.199 --> 01:10:24.960 Okay, so I should probably say that story because I 1328 01:10:25.000 --> 01:10:28.560 get back and my friend Dave Granning was also he'd 1329 01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:31.960 been wound. He'd been shot up so bad he had 1330 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:34.439 a battlefield amputation. On the battle they thought he was 1331 01:10:34.479 --> 01:10:37.239 going to die. He'd got machine gun through the chest, 1332 01:10:37.279 --> 01:10:39.079 his fingers were blown off. He was really in bad, 1333 01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:44.119 bed in shape. He came back and he had a 1334 01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:46.239 brand new GTO and he let me use it to 1335 01:10:46.279 --> 01:10:51.079 go down. And my last girlfriend before I left was 1336 01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:54.560 two hawkstrusts her and she was hot and she became 1337 01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.279 a stewardess and I and so I was going to 1338 01:10:57.399 --> 01:11:00.319 drive down and I called her and she was, you know, 1339 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:01.960 going to meet me. And I thought, oh my god, 1340 01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:04.000 this is going to be great. I'm going to get laid. 1341 01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:06.199 I'm driving at one hundred and ten miles an hour, 1342 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:09.840 you know, down from down it's from Sacramento. It's called 1343 01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:12.239 the Winter's cut Off. And I'm going one hundred and 1344 01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:14.840 ten miles and I remember looking up in my rear 1345 01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:16.880 view mirror and I saw this way in the back, 1346 01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:20.840 like you know, just lights flashing like that, and back 1347 01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:25.000 then in nineteen sixty nine or seventy, I guess it 1348 01:11:25.119 --> 01:11:27.880 used to be. It was. This was during the summertime, 1349 01:11:27.960 --> 01:11:30.640 and I had on flip flops, you know, flip flop, 1350 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.720 and I'd taken him off. So I was driving barefoot 1351 01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:35.600 and I heard and I remember it against a lot 1352 01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:39.119 to drive barefoot. So I was reaching underneath as he 1353 01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:41.920 pulled up behind me, and I'm stopped. I'm reaching under 1354 01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:44.960 pulling on my shoes like that. So when he came 1355 01:11:45.039 --> 01:11:47.439 up to the he asked me to open the door, 1356 01:11:48.239 --> 01:11:49.760 and as I opened the door, I was met with 1357 01:11:49.800 --> 01:11:51.600 a three fifty seven right in my face and he 1358 01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:54.479 was just like holding it. He pulled me out onto 1359 01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:57.760 the ground. I'm laying it around like back Vietnam. I 1360 01:11:57.760 --> 01:12:00.720 was like, you know, it was like in a mouse boys. 1361 01:12:00.760 --> 01:12:03.119 You know. I never had a thrill. I thought I 1362 01:12:03.159 --> 01:12:05.920 was going to get executed right there. What I didn't 1363 01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:12.880 know was this was nineteen sixty nine and the the something. 1364 01:12:13.039 --> 01:12:14.199 The Zodiac Killer. 1365 01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:18.720 Zodiac Killer had killed people on this same area, and 1366 01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:22.159 so these cops were not taking any chances, and you know, 1367 01:12:22.960 --> 01:12:26.319 and then I had a military ID, but I didn't 1368 01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:28.760 have a driver's license, and the car wasn't registered to me. 1369 01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:31.560 I was like, and what I did one hundred and ten? 1370 01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:32.920 He was, you know, you're doing a hundred ten and 1371 01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:35.199 went like, I'm trying to go get laid. I told 1372 01:12:35.279 --> 01:12:37.840 him the truth, and so we sat in there and 1373 01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:39.560 he had a brother that was a Vietnam He let 1374 01:12:39.560 --> 01:12:42.920 me go. He said, just slow it down, learn the 1375 01:12:42.960 --> 01:12:47.960 new rules, you know. So I always thought like, wow, 1376 01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:52.199 it was great. But I ended up going to University 1377 01:12:52.239 --> 01:12:55.000 of Utah, and by then I got smarter. It was 1378 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:57.119 really funny. I guess my brain had a chance to 1379 01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:01.199 matur but suddenly, you know, I could go to college 1380 01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:03.720 and then it was you know, I could pass tests 1381 01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:08.319 and all that sort of stuff, except in the really 1382 01:13:08.359 --> 01:13:10.279 hard test. I did alert mission one time, and to 1383 01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:13.399 get the to get a final that I crawled into 1384 01:13:13.439 --> 01:13:17.479 this guy's office one night, which everybody in the department 1385 01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:19.399 thought that was the coolest thing that ever had happened, 1386 01:13:19.399 --> 01:13:22.000 because I got all the answers the old fashioned way. 1387 01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:23.760 But what are you gonna do? Send me back to Vietnam? 1388 01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:28.920 Who gives a shit? But I got through that, and 1389 01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:34.079 I always had. I always found a place. I'm like 1390 01:13:34.119 --> 01:13:36.239 the guy that always finds the perfect parking place and 1391 01:13:36.319 --> 01:13:38.560 the perfect place to live. As I drive around and 1392 01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:40.920 I know I'm going to find it sixth sense, whatever 1393 01:13:40.920 --> 01:13:45.920 it is, and I drove past this. I had graduated 1394 01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:47.760 in the only degree I could get, which was in 1395 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:50.000 the Department of Recreation because they didn't have a lot 1396 01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:53.319 of reading. I mean, there was an English attached to it. 1397 01:13:53.720 --> 01:13:55.439 So I had this degree and I went down to 1398 01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:59.520 take a test and there was I went California in 1399 01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:02.239 manhatt Beach and there must have been twelve hundred people 1400 01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:05.600 and taken for two positions. So I knew this wasn't 1401 01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:08.199 going to happen. So I was driving around and what 1402 01:14:08.199 --> 01:14:09.359 am I going to do for a living? I went 1403 01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:11.640 past a brokerage firm and I saw a brand new 1404 01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:14.199 portion of brand new Cities Bends and We're like, I 1405 01:14:14.199 --> 01:14:16.920 could do that whatever that is, and went in and 1406 01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:19.600 the guy said, this is nineteen seventy four and the 1407 01:14:19.640 --> 01:14:21.560 market had crashed and everybody lost a lot of money, 1408 01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:24.119 and they hired me. I ended up going to went 1409 01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.319 back to New York, went to work for Hutton, and 1410 01:14:26.439 --> 01:14:31.159 every move, everything I did went up, because from nineteen 1411 01:14:31.319 --> 01:14:33.760 seventy five on the market just steadily went up and 1412 01:14:33.880 --> 01:14:36.399 up and up and up. But I would get in 1413 01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:40.439 arguments with people using common sense logic. Like back then, 1414 01:14:40.520 --> 01:14:44.159 you could get bonds. They were called Big Max. They 1415 01:14:44.159 --> 01:14:48.119 were the municipal bonster for New York City and they 1416 01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:50.800 were ten percent with a ten percent yield tax double 1417 01:14:50.880 --> 01:14:53.159 tax free. And I got a buck a bond, which 1418 01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:55.640 is unheard of. And the old brokers will say, don't 1419 01:14:55.640 --> 01:14:59.000 you realize you're screwing these people? And I go, look, 1420 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:01.560 I was just in New York. I looked around. Everybody 1421 01:15:01.600 --> 01:15:06.000 had jobs, they just built, they had just completed the towers, 1422 01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:09.239 the twin towers. This place is humming. How could it's 1423 01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:12.079 not going to happen? And I was right, And those bonds, 1424 01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:14.840 everybody made a ton of money. So I started thinking, 1425 01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:18.039 this is a piece of k. Everything I did was 1426 01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:21.119 making money. I thought, I'm now going to become a 1427 01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:26.159 real estate developer. So I started building condos in Park City, Utah. 1428 01:15:26.199 --> 01:15:29.880 And at one time I was the biggest I had 1429 01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:32.720 the biggest contractor in Summit County. We built like one 1430 01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:35.039 hundred and sixty units down south and blah blah blah 1431 01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:39.760 blah blah, and I hit the snag where I ended 1432 01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:43.880 up losing, like because it like twenty seven million dollars 1433 01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:47.560 or something like that, and it was really sad. But 1434 01:15:47.960 --> 01:15:53.079 I decided I moved back to California after that big loss, 1435 01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.600 paid everybody back that I would money to, and I 1436 01:15:55.640 --> 01:15:57.319 came back and I went like, what can I do? 1437 01:15:57.640 --> 01:16:01.199 You know? And I had all this experience and I 1438 01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:06.319 thought I'd written in an article. I started writing articles 1439 01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:09.119 and the very first article I wrote became a cover 1440 01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:13.439 story on Pinching World magazine. I had this knack for writing, 1441 01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:17.000 and I started doing that, and you know, fifty books later. 1442 01:16:17.439 --> 01:16:21.520 When I know, when one when a lot of Vietnam 1443 01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:24.159 veterans came back, I mean, it wasn't popular to talk 1444 01:16:24.159 --> 01:16:26.760 about the war, and so I'm wondering, like, when did 1445 01:16:26.840 --> 01:16:29.720 when did the idea get into your mind? I mean 1446 01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:32.800 you and Gary and Ken and all of you wrote 1447 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:35.720 about the war. I mean, how did that come about 1448 01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:36.359 for you guys? 1449 01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:40.079 Ken Miller? Because of Ken Miller, it was about twenty 1450 01:16:40.199 --> 01:16:43.800 years later, you know. And if you'll see every war, 1451 01:16:44.439 --> 01:16:46.720 the books come out ten or fifteen or twenty years 1452 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:49.479 later because people are there's been a gap and they 1453 01:16:49.520 --> 01:16:53.279 want to read about it. And Miller had written Tiger 1454 01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:57.119 the lipdog, which is our dog. Great and he was 1455 01:16:58.039 --> 01:17:01.640 and that's how he knew. The editor at Random House 1456 01:17:01.720 --> 01:17:05.239 and Milton Linder asked me to write about you know, 1457 01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:09.920 I told you about Ricondo School and capturing the NBA officer, 1458 01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:16.439 So excuse me. So I wrote about thirty pages. There 1459 01:17:16.479 --> 01:17:19.760 were it was single space, there was no paragraph breaks 1460 01:17:19.840 --> 01:17:22.039 or nothing. And I sent it back to Linder, who had, 1461 01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:24.279 you know, grown up with nuns beating his hand so 1462 01:17:24.319 --> 01:17:26.800 he could spell and write everything perfect, you know, and 1463 01:17:26.840 --> 01:17:29.720 he goes, it's great, but paragraphs don't go on for 1464 01:17:30.279 --> 01:17:34.159 twenty pages. One paragraph, okay. So I sort of had 1465 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:37.640 to learn that on the job too. And I remember, 1466 01:17:37.880 --> 01:17:39.560 he goes, you know, you ought to send this to 1467 01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:42.359 my publisher. So I put thirty pages, and I hired 1468 01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:44.119 an editor to edit for me. I sent it to him. 1469 01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:48.439 I sent a FedEx, you know, on Wednesday and Friday, 1470 01:17:48.479 --> 01:17:50.079 I get a phone call and I'm my name is 1471 01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:51.800 ohen Locke. I'm with Random House. I want to buy 1472 01:17:51.800 --> 01:17:56.000 your book. No negotiation, no agent, nothing, and bang. 1473 01:17:56.399 --> 01:17:57.199 So awesome. 1474 01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:00.600 Yeah, it was. It was amazing. And that's why I, 1475 01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:05.079 you know, we're sort of clumped together. It's because of Miller, Miller's. 1476 01:18:04.680 --> 01:18:08.720 Contact, you know, and now people were ready to start 1477 01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:11.079 talking about the war and talking about the experience. 1478 01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:16.159 Well they're still I mean, I remember the last uh 1479 01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:17.960 I did a tour. Rand and sent me on a 1480 01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:19.560 tour and I went around and I spoke at B. 1481 01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:22.439 Daltons and I remember this one B. Dalton, and this guy, 1482 01:18:22.600 --> 01:18:25.840 this young guy, goes, so are you crazy? Are you 1483 01:18:25.920 --> 01:18:28.920 really crazy? I mean he was asking all these stupid, 1484 01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:33.640 ridiculous questions and no, and so I have. As you 1485 01:18:33.680 --> 01:18:36.960 can see, my sense of humor isn't necessarily for everybody. 1486 01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:39.720 It's good for combat vets, but the average civilian is 1487 01:18:39.760 --> 01:18:42.279 going to get pissed off of me really quick. So 1488 01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:46.079 I'm talking about No, I'm telling some story and I 1489 01:18:46.399 --> 01:18:49.600 and I'm talking about these marines. This is a true story. 1490 01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:53.520 We were out at out at this dump where we 1491 01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:57.319 would test by our weapons or shoot rats or whatever 1492 01:18:57.319 --> 01:18:59.520 the hell we were doing. And these marines walk by 1493 01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:02.359 and they were set up and they were shooting, and 1494 01:19:02.439 --> 01:19:04.520 I made something of it. I said, like, yeah, that 1495 01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:08.960 these jar hit I said, jar hits. This woman gets 1496 01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:11.800 up in the front and she's got my book and 1497 01:19:11.960 --> 01:19:14.239 throws it at me and goes my husband was a 1498 01:19:14.279 --> 01:19:17.279 marine and he died in Vietnam, and she turned around 1499 01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:18.800 and marched out, and the only thing I could think 1500 01:19:18.960 --> 01:19:23.279 was to say was I didn't kill him. I'm sorry, 1501 01:19:23.439 --> 01:19:26.600 you know, this is just what happened. This with combat vets, 1502 01:19:26.640 --> 01:19:30.079 I can make fun of Navy seals. I can make 1503 01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:34.920 fun of Air Force pair of commandos because if I'm 1504 01:19:35.439 --> 01:19:38.119 in that group, it's okay. But if you're not in 1505 01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:39.840 the group, you better watch out. You're gonna have a 1506 01:19:39.880 --> 01:19:43.960 mouthful of fists. So it's it's like we, you know, 1507 01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:46.000 we get to joke around about I mean, you know, 1508 01:19:46.039 --> 01:19:47.960 I'm making light of a lot of stuff because that's 1509 01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:53.479 probably how I bury things. But you know, I feel 1510 01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:57.960 like I feel like my sense of humor kept me 1511 01:19:58.359 --> 01:20:02.279 saying in nom and I would be very inappropriate. Like 1512 01:20:02.359 --> 01:20:06.000 on one mission, it might have been the Ashaut Valley mission, 1513 01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:08.720 and we were going out and there they were, they 1514 01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:11.920 with the talk and they had big maps set up, 1515 01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:15.720 and this guy from S two, this captain was showing, well, 1516 01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:19.359 there's a we think there's fifteen thousand of the fifth 1517 01:20:19.439 --> 01:20:22.319 NBA Regiment up here. In the fourth there was a 1518 01:20:22.439 --> 01:20:26.159 recon of three thousand North Vin's coming down here and 1519 01:20:26.199 --> 01:20:28.399 we're going to insert you. And I remember raising my 1520 01:20:28.479 --> 01:20:30.920 hand and this thing is packed. We've got helicopter pilots, 1521 01:20:31.239 --> 01:20:34.119 the two, the teams, everybody's there, and I raised my 1522 01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:36.720 hand and he goes yes, Sergeant Chambers and go like, 1523 01:20:37.319 --> 01:20:39.760 should we even bring any food or anything or just 1524 01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:43.520 like a lot of extra ammo? And he's Chambers shut up. 1525 01:20:43.800 --> 01:20:45.880 You would get so pissed off because I would say 1526 01:20:45.920 --> 01:20:49.439 these goofy comments. But the way they painted it, we 1527 01:20:49.439 --> 01:20:53.680 weren't coming back. So I figured why I'd bring a 1528 01:20:53.680 --> 01:20:55.680 bunch of extra stuff if we're only going to go 1529 01:20:55.720 --> 01:20:59.039 out and get you know, shot. I don't know. 1530 01:20:59.239 --> 01:21:01.600 And you've made I mean you mentioned that a little bit, 1531 01:21:01.640 --> 01:21:03.560 but you've also went and like spent a lot of 1532 01:21:03.560 --> 01:21:06.600 time in Cambodia and made numerous trips back to Vietnam. 1533 01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:10.000 What was that sort of like I mean retracing your 1534 01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:11.840 old patrols in some instances. 1535 01:21:12.039 --> 01:21:14.880 Well, I spent a lot of times ten years in Cambodia, 1536 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:17.479 so you know I was you know, guys will say, 1537 01:21:17.560 --> 01:21:20.279 yeah I did, I did three tours, and no, I 1538 01:21:20.319 --> 01:21:22.439 go like I did ten years in Cambodia. So his 1539 01:21:22.520 --> 01:21:27.840 career no. I went back to Vietnam basically on a dare. 1540 01:21:28.319 --> 01:21:34.560 I took my son to Thailand and he wanted to 1541 01:21:34.600 --> 01:21:37.279 go surfing and stuff like that. So anyway, he was 1542 01:21:37.279 --> 01:21:39.399 there and he was going back to school, and I 1543 01:21:39.479 --> 01:21:42.000 stayed and I met these women, and I was up 1544 01:21:42.039 --> 01:21:44.199 in Ching Mai. I don't know if you know Thailand, 1545 01:21:44.199 --> 01:21:47.000 but Ching MAI's way north. It's a beautiful little city, 1546 01:21:47.159 --> 01:21:48.479 and I was thinking I was going to live there. 1547 01:21:48.520 --> 01:21:51.520 This is great. I like this, and I had no 1548 01:21:51.600 --> 01:21:53.600 thoughts of ever going back to Vietnam, even though it 1549 01:21:53.640 --> 01:21:55.760 wasn't that far away. And I got in this argument 1550 01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:59.399 with this real super liberal woman who was Canadian, and 1551 01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:02.479 she told me how wrong the war was and how 1552 01:22:03.239 --> 01:22:05.960 certain things didn't happen. And I was like, rather than 1553 01:22:06.079 --> 01:22:09.640 argue with her, you know, she goes, I didn't, and 1554 01:22:09.640 --> 01:22:11.920 she goes, we're so close, why don't you go find 1555 01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:15.159 out for yourself? And I went, I will. So I 1556 01:22:15.159 --> 01:22:18.720 got a ticket and I flew. I flew to Laos, 1557 01:22:18.760 --> 01:22:20.920 and then from Laos, I flew into Hanoi. And I 1558 01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:25.840 remember that first night. I felt like, this is twenty 1559 01:22:26.039 --> 01:22:28.720 twelve or eleven or something like that, and I felt 1560 01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:33.920 like wow, I'm here. I'm just no no backup, no ammo, 1561 01:22:34.279 --> 01:22:38.479 no gun, no anything. What if they're going to recognize me? 1562 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:40.640 It was just thinking like what if some oh I 1563 01:22:40.760 --> 01:22:43.680 remember him, I shoot him, get him. You know, there's 1564 01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:45.840 all these weird things go through your mind. And drive 1565 01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:50.359 into into Hanoi and on a beautiful, brand new four 1566 01:22:50.479 --> 01:22:55.960 lane highway. And I stayed at the at the Hanoi Hilton, 1567 01:22:56.000 --> 01:22:59.079 not the one that's famous, but the real Hilton where 1568 01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:02.439 Bush and State or when he went, when he visited there, 1569 01:23:03.560 --> 01:23:05.600 and they were so nice to me, and I got 1570 01:23:05.600 --> 01:23:09.760 the last room and I'm watching I'm watching television. Was 1571 01:23:09.800 --> 01:23:14.880 the HBO special when mac namara said like six times 1572 01:23:14.880 --> 01:23:16.399 how I was of a state that we went into 1573 01:23:16.439 --> 01:23:19.039 Vietnam and this didn't happen. That didn't happen, and this 1574 01:23:19.199 --> 01:23:22.079 was wrong. And I remember throwing the remote control at 1575 01:23:22.079 --> 01:23:24.359 the television and breaking and I was so pissed off. 1576 01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:27.880 And that sort of started my quest to find out. 1577 01:23:27.960 --> 01:23:30.600 I started what's called the Hidden History Project, and I 1578 01:23:30.640 --> 01:23:35.640 would go to the archives in u in Hanoid where 1579 01:23:35.640 --> 01:23:39.560 there's there's no Internet connection to them. There there's just 1580 01:23:39.760 --> 01:23:42.960 raw stuff. And like I showed you this, this one picture, 1581 01:23:43.560 --> 01:23:48.079 which is of Poa Chi Minh is really the thin 1582 01:23:48.199 --> 01:23:52.319 guy in the center to in the rest of all Americans. 1583 01:23:52.319 --> 01:23:55.800 And then General Jap is the guy in the white 1584 01:23:55.880 --> 01:23:58.520 suit right there. He was working with the OSS. So 1585 01:23:58.560 --> 01:24:03.800 there's all of these things in Ho Chi Men's archives 1586 01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:07.720 that he wrote about, and that all of the letters 1587 01:24:07.760 --> 01:24:10.560 I saw that was addressed to Truman that Truman never read. 1588 01:24:10.720 --> 01:24:12.680 They were going to open up. They wanted to, you know, 1589 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:18.399 give us access to you know, High Fong. See, the 1590 01:24:18.439 --> 01:24:21.560 problem was with the French, that they had been enslaved 1591 01:24:21.600 --> 01:24:24.159 by the French. And if Roosevelt would have lived just 1592 01:24:24.199 --> 01:24:26.359 a few more months and Truman wouldn't have been president, 1593 01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:28.960 there would have been Vietnam would have been put in 1594 01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:32.079 a Conservatives like a trusteeship like Hong Kong was for 1595 01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:34.159 thirty years, and then go back to Vietnam. That's what 1596 01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:39.800 Roosevelt wanted to do. He hated the French. That's why, 1597 01:24:40.239 --> 01:24:42.880 you know, people forget the VC French. I mean the 1598 01:24:42.920 --> 01:24:47.199 French rolled over like incapitulated in about was it a 1599 01:24:47.239 --> 01:24:50.199 week when they rolled into France. Well, what people don't 1600 01:24:50.239 --> 01:24:54.479 realize that that Hitler now had access to the second 1601 01:24:54.560 --> 01:24:56.880 largest navy in the world, which was the French Navy, 1602 01:24:57.119 --> 01:25:01.920 and they were everywhere, which meant also Vietnam, Vietnam was 1603 01:25:01.920 --> 01:25:06.720 called Indo China, so people don't realize into China is Vietnam, Laos, 1604 01:25:06.760 --> 01:25:10.960 Cambodia and it's and it was all under the VC 1605 01:25:11.119 --> 01:25:14.800 French and they just opened the doors for the Japanese 1606 01:25:15.319 --> 01:25:19.840 Imperial Army to come in. And what the Japanese had 1607 01:25:19.880 --> 01:25:21.600 to deal with the French they said, look, you keep 1608 01:25:21.600 --> 01:25:24.199 your jobs and that will free up more men, so 1609 01:25:24.239 --> 01:25:28.199 we go kill Americans. So basically the VC French we're 1610 01:25:28.239 --> 01:25:31.439 doing all the support stuff in the airports and everything 1611 01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:37.119 for the Japanese people. Everybody knows about Pearl Harbor December seventh, 1612 01:25:37.199 --> 01:25:39.800 nineteen forty, they don't know about December eighth. Two hundred 1613 01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:43.079 and fifty thousand people were killed on December eighth. When 1614 01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:46.560 the next when the fleets, you know, went through the 1615 01:25:46.560 --> 01:25:52.520 whole rest of Asia, killing you know, Singapore and Indonesia 1616 01:25:52.600 --> 01:25:55.439 and you know, the Philippine all all through there on 1617 01:25:55.479 --> 01:26:01.279 the eighth and that that that that that fleet came 1618 01:26:01.319 --> 01:26:04.640 out of Vietnam, that that's where it sailed from, and 1619 01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:07.000 those airplanes and I you know, and I started reading 1620 01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:09.439 how Ho Chi Minh had that the Viet min had 1621 01:26:09.479 --> 01:26:13.760 rescued American pilots and he he walked one all the 1622 01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:16.159 way back. You know, it took a month to get 1623 01:26:16.199 --> 01:26:20.319 to Coonan, China. And what's great if you get older 1624 01:26:20.359 --> 01:26:21.960 and you can travel, which I love to do. I 1625 01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:24.640 would go and trace these places. I would trace where 1626 01:26:24.640 --> 01:26:27.479 Ho Chi Minh went, and I would trace where uh 1627 01:26:27.600 --> 01:26:33.800 the oss we're in in China and in coon and Kuhman, China. 1628 01:26:34.239 --> 01:26:36.399 And there's a great big thing and says, you know, 1629 01:26:37.479 --> 01:26:40.279 thanks America. You know, he saved China. You never hear that. 1630 01:26:40.399 --> 01:26:43.439 Now that's all been like it gets it gets covered 1631 01:26:43.439 --> 01:26:45.640 over with the new communist government doesn't want to hear 1632 01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:47.840 a lot about that stuff. But it's all out there, 1633 01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:50.800 you know if you visit these museums. And so I 1634 01:26:50.960 --> 01:26:54.199 started finding out more and more stuff and find finding 1635 01:26:54.239 --> 01:26:56.560 out this history that was sort of hidden from us 1636 01:26:56.680 --> 01:27:00.680 young guys, that that it wasn't that we were fighting 1637 01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:04.279 the communists. We had inherited this thing because the French said, 1638 01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:07.079 the French name. There's no such thing as a Viet Cong. 1639 01:27:07.239 --> 01:27:09.880 You know, by the way, that's a bullshit term. That 1640 01:27:10.039 --> 01:27:13.880 was made up by the French Vietmese communism. But there's 1641 01:27:13.920 --> 01:27:17.159 no Viet Kong that you know, they know, you know, 1642 01:27:17.319 --> 01:27:20.840 that's that's the front. When you go to Vietnam and 1643 01:27:20.880 --> 01:27:22.960 you start looking around, you could look at the memorials. 1644 01:27:23.279 --> 01:27:25.720 There's a memorial to the America. They call it the 1645 01:27:25.760 --> 01:27:28.479 Americans War, and so that was Tenure War, and it's 1646 01:27:28.520 --> 01:27:31.800 a it's a topa like a you know, shrine, little shrine, 1647 01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:35.239 blah blah. And then we go to the French monument 1648 01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:40.039 and it's this big, great, big trick because they fought 1649 01:27:40.079 --> 01:27:42.119 him for two hundred years. And of course then you go. 1650 01:27:42.439 --> 01:27:44.560 Then my guy goes, oh, yeah, but that's nothing, and 1651 01:27:44.680 --> 01:27:47.079 he takes me to the Monument of the War with China, 1652 01:27:47.279 --> 01:27:49.840 which is up on a hill, which is this massive, great, 1653 01:27:49.920 --> 01:27:51.720 big thing. You know, they've been fighting him for two 1654 01:27:51.760 --> 01:27:55.720 thousand years. They hated the Chinese. They still hate the Chinese. 1655 01:27:56.079 --> 01:27:58.199 You know, if they tolerate them, they would get ups 1656 01:27:58.239 --> 01:28:02.279 from But if like I remember reading in the State 1657 01:28:02.359 --> 01:28:06.439 Department in the forties, there was a fifties sixties there 1658 01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:12.159 was zero Vietnamese or anybody of Asian descent that was 1659 01:28:12.199 --> 01:28:15.640 in the State Department. If somebody would have came over 1660 01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:18.920 and just counted the number of cannons that were I 1661 01:28:19.079 --> 01:28:22.399 saw in this one museum for every you know, every 1662 01:28:22.520 --> 01:28:26.000 one hundred years that they fought with the Chinese, they 1663 01:28:26.039 --> 01:28:27.880 would know that we were never going to there wasn't 1664 01:28:28.159 --> 01:28:31.000 back by China. You know, all of our intel, all 1665 01:28:31.079 --> 01:28:35.079 of our information was skewed by the French, you know, 1666 01:28:35.119 --> 01:28:36.640 and you can read all about that. I want to 1667 01:28:36.840 --> 01:28:39.279 go off onto that topic, but that just got me 1668 01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:44.159 deeper and deeper into I wanted to help, and so 1669 01:28:45.640 --> 01:28:50.479 I sort of had. It was sort of my giving back. 1670 01:28:50.560 --> 01:28:53.760 I went into Cambodia and found I showed you that 1671 01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:57.680 picture earlier I'd found of all of the B fifty 1672 01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:01.720 two strikes. I mean, this is the photograph showed that. 1673 01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:06.800 So that see is that again? It's like that, So 1674 01:29:06.960 --> 01:29:12.600 that's anyway, it's hard to show that, but that's Cambodia. 1675 01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:16.840 We just we dropped more tonnage on Cambodia than any 1676 01:29:16.960 --> 01:29:21.319 country even during World War Two, more tonnage wise, and 1677 01:29:22.359 --> 01:29:24.479 you can and all of this I got this from 1678 01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:27.760 Yale University. But the Air Force keeps accurate records, and 1679 01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:31.960 so all of those are bomb sorties and of the 1680 01:29:32.720 --> 01:29:35.880 I think of the eight eighty five hundred sorties, three 1681 01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:38.000 thousand of them didn't even have a mission. They just 1682 01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:40.560 went out and dropped bombs. And so, you know, I'm 1683 01:29:40.600 --> 01:29:43.039 in Cambodia and I've met a lot of people that 1684 01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:46.720 lost their grandparents that you know, fifty two flives so 1685 01:29:46.840 --> 01:29:49.399 fricking high. You don't know it's there until the bomb 1686 01:29:49.479 --> 01:29:53.119 blows up, So you know, we and that just pushed 1687 01:29:53.560 --> 01:29:56.840 all of these young people into Pulpot's arms. Pullpop was 1688 01:29:56.880 --> 01:29:59.680 the crazy guy that thought Mao was the greatest thing 1689 01:29:59.680 --> 01:30:01.520 in safe ice bread. But he was going to take 1690 01:30:01.560 --> 01:30:04.399 it to the next level, take Cambodia back to year zero. 1691 01:30:04.960 --> 01:30:07.880 So he executed you if you wore glasses, if you 1692 01:30:07.960 --> 01:30:12.159 had an education, you know, they would if you didn't, 1693 01:30:13.199 --> 01:30:16.520 if you broke a needle and stitching, if you you 1694 01:30:16.560 --> 01:30:20.000 couldn't have a family picture. I mean, they literally just 1695 01:30:21.600 --> 01:30:24.239 just destroyed that culture. And of the seven million people 1696 01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:28.560 probably killed three million either forced labor, you know, because 1697 01:30:28.560 --> 01:30:31.560 they dumped the people out of banam Pen and marched 1698 01:30:31.600 --> 01:30:35.000 them out into the bill, out into the farmland, and 1699 01:30:35.119 --> 01:30:38.359 they became farmers and they would do ridiculous things like 1700 01:30:38.479 --> 01:30:40.800 I saw this one place where they were trying to 1701 01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:45.319 build a reservoir uphill, but they were stupid. The people 1702 01:30:45.359 --> 01:30:48.920 that were running that had no education. Even now today 1703 01:30:49.119 --> 01:30:54.079 and hopefully this doesn't hunting doesn't, he won't carry He's 1704 01:30:54.079 --> 01:30:57.399 the Prime Minister of Cambodia. Here's a third grade education. 1705 01:30:58.800 --> 01:31:00.479 You know, people don't They did have a lot of 1706 01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:04.399 education back then. And he fought with Polpot and then 1707 01:31:04.439 --> 01:31:06.079 he went over on the n east side and came 1708 01:31:06.159 --> 01:31:11.039 back in and kicked the camerouge out, and then he 1709 01:31:11.119 --> 01:31:13.520 became the prime minister. That's thirty years ago and he's 1710 01:31:13.520 --> 01:31:16.840 still the prime minister today. But I decided I'm living here. 1711 01:31:16.920 --> 01:31:19.560 I'm going to help these people. I've joined the rotary 1712 01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:22.079 Club the VFW. It's really neat when you're the VFW 1713 01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:27.239 and your VFW is the guys. The name of it 1714 01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:30.239 is the guys that were on that Merchant Marine ship 1715 01:31:30.319 --> 01:31:33.239 that got lasted after at the end of the war. 1716 01:31:33.439 --> 01:31:36.479 You know. So we get to go to the embassy 1717 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:39.359 and hang out with all these cool young you know, 1718 01:31:39.520 --> 01:31:44.319 soldiers and Marines that are stationed in Panampen and also 1719 01:31:44.479 --> 01:31:48.039 the finding missing soldiers. I got to work with our 1720 01:31:48.119 --> 01:31:52.479 guy's called stone is the code name for it. But 1721 01:31:52.880 --> 01:31:57.239 the main guy for the finding the missing soldiers is 1722 01:31:57.600 --> 01:31:59.960 even the Vietnam A station PanAm Pen. So I got 1723 01:32:00.159 --> 01:32:03.720 to know him, and what I would do is I'd say, look, 1724 01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:07.159 you know, I know the way these people think, Let's 1725 01:32:07.199 --> 01:32:09.119 give him something. So let's give them. I did this 1726 01:32:09.239 --> 01:32:14.000 big painting of the Vietnamese when they land, when they 1727 01:32:14.039 --> 01:32:19.840 went through the the gates and at the end of 1728 01:32:19.880 --> 01:32:21.880 the war, and I thought, just give this to them, 1729 01:32:21.960 --> 01:32:25.399 because they give us intel on our missing guys. We 1730 01:32:25.479 --> 01:32:29.199 still have twelve hundred and fifty guys missing. And I 1731 01:32:29.319 --> 01:32:31.760 found out all of the rigorole that goes through it 1732 01:32:32.239 --> 01:32:34.680 to try to find It's amazing. The North Vietinese have 1733 01:32:34.760 --> 01:32:37.399 four hundred thousand and all it says on their bursts 1734 01:32:37.479 --> 01:32:41.920 on the death certificate location South, so they had nothing. 1735 01:32:42.359 --> 01:32:48.600 So I even't found these They're called corp they're psychics, 1736 01:32:48.960 --> 01:32:52.920 their corporate their corpse finders, and they have this psychic 1737 01:32:53.000 --> 01:32:55.720 thing and some of it works and stuff like that, 1738 01:32:55.880 --> 01:33:00.439 but it's like so bizarre. So I've helped this woman 1739 01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:05.359 who has an organization to find their missing soldiers, and 1740 01:33:05.439 --> 01:33:08.399 I found two hundred and fifty two hundred and fifty 1741 01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:12.960 graves in Panampan just by talking like this. And one 1742 01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:15.600 of my friends said, I know where there's this grave 1743 01:33:15.720 --> 01:33:18.720 site that's Chinese but it looks like Vietnamese. And we 1744 01:33:18.760 --> 01:33:20.880 went there and it was all these vietmanse graves because 1745 01:33:20.920 --> 01:33:25.079 the Vietnamese lost, they lost eighty six thousand men fighting 1746 01:33:25.159 --> 01:33:27.960 the Camerooge. After we were gone, we know nothing about 1747 01:33:27.960 --> 01:33:31.079 all these wars that went on. And when you go there, 1748 01:33:31.079 --> 01:33:32.960 I mean, if I'm there, I'll take you around. I'll 1749 01:33:33.000 --> 01:33:35.359 take you to see a rip And there's a museum, 1750 01:33:35.600 --> 01:33:38.840 the best museum there you've ever seen, because all the 1751 01:33:39.119 --> 01:33:43.079 tanks and the artillery pieces were left where the last 1752 01:33:43.119 --> 01:33:47.079 battle was aimed at each other. They're still there. It's 1753 01:33:47.199 --> 01:33:51.600 just it's amazing, you know, to find that that kind 1754 01:33:52.199 --> 01:33:52.640 of stuff. 1755 01:33:52.720 --> 01:33:53.680 That's crazy. 1756 01:33:54.880 --> 01:33:55.399 Ever going on. 1757 01:33:55.640 --> 01:33:58.319 No, No, this is all like fascinating to hear about. 1758 01:33:59.119 --> 01:34:00.520 I was wondering if you could all so tell us 1759 01:34:00.520 --> 01:34:02.479 about you know, some of your art. You know that 1760 01:34:02.600 --> 01:34:04.920 some of it you can see behind you. If you 1761 01:34:04.920 --> 01:34:08.119 could tell us how you got into painting, and you 1762 01:34:08.199 --> 01:34:10.760 know some of your work is also Vietnam themed. 1763 01:34:11.760 --> 01:34:14.079 Well, it was a lot of it was actually I 1764 01:34:14.239 --> 01:34:17.319 did I did this. This was this brochure that I made, 1765 01:34:17.520 --> 01:34:20.359 and these are all I can't hold that can I 1766 01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:23.760 can't hold it straight? Well, these are all paintings that 1767 01:34:23.880 --> 01:34:27.319 I did. This one, see which one is it? This one? 1768 01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:34.720 This one one first place in the VA's Art contest 1769 01:34:34.800 --> 01:34:37.600 of like forty five hundred different vas across the country. 1770 01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:40.359 And it wasn't even one of my favorites. But I 1771 01:34:40.920 --> 01:34:44.119 guess what it is was the it captured you know 1772 01:34:44.199 --> 01:34:47.279 what that guy was going through a moment. Yeah, yeah, moment. 1773 01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:49.840 And this is me and the one this is me 1774 01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:52.880 and Tubby Claus and where there was these would be 1775 01:34:52.920 --> 01:34:57.079 photographs and then I would paint him. So that was that, 1776 01:34:57.239 --> 01:35:02.359 and then I started painting like my girls like this. 1777 01:35:03.319 --> 01:35:05.680 Well, it's hard to do this when you're at reversed. 1778 01:35:06.520 --> 01:35:10.079 Yeah, everything's reversed. But let's see. I saw some other 1779 01:35:10.119 --> 01:35:12.439 ones that are I just did this one the other 1780 01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:15.199 day or a week, a few weeks ago. I like 1781 01:35:15.279 --> 01:35:19.000 to copy stuff, and so that's a picasso. And then 1782 01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:23.039 there's another one of my I saw her in downtown 1783 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:26.840 ho chi Min City, which is Saigone for those of 1784 01:35:26.880 --> 01:35:31.720 you that won't call it Ochiman City, and I and 1785 01:35:31.840 --> 01:35:35.319 we talked about this earlier, but that's always been one 1786 01:35:35.399 --> 01:35:39.399 of my reliefs. You know, probably read your Way before 1787 01:35:39.439 --> 01:35:43.840 I wrote anything about Vietnam, but I would paint well. 1788 01:35:44.600 --> 01:35:48.199 It was funny when I finished writing that story or 1789 01:35:48.359 --> 01:35:51.600 the death in the Ashell Valley, I stopped talking about it. 1790 01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:54.039 There was nothing else to talk about. It was really weird. 1791 01:35:54.279 --> 01:35:55.760 It was like I got it out of my head 1792 01:35:56.359 --> 01:36:01.239 and down on paper where it belongs. And so, you know, 1793 01:36:01.640 --> 01:36:04.840 the way I faced my PTSD was like they say, bite, 1794 01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:07.479 bite the dog, the bit you you know, bite the 1795 01:36:07.520 --> 01:36:10.800 hair and the dog. Whatever that saying is going back 1796 01:36:10.880 --> 01:36:14.880 there did more to help my than a thousand therapists 1797 01:36:15.119 --> 01:36:18.399 because I got to see the Vietnamese as loving, real 1798 01:36:18.560 --> 01:36:22.920 people with loving families. And these people treat By the way, 1799 01:36:22.960 --> 01:36:24.720 if you're a veteran of Vietnam War and you go 1800 01:36:24.800 --> 01:36:28.319 to Vietnam, you're you're a class higher than any of 1801 01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:32.199 the tourists. They love Americans that come back. I mean, 1802 01:36:32.199 --> 01:36:35.359 I've seen Ho Chi Men's body. I waited in line 1803 01:36:35.640 --> 01:36:38.239 and I had me and another veteran were there and 1804 01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:42.880 this little old guy, old he's my age, come up 1805 01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:44.840 to and he had his NVA uniform on, and all 1806 01:36:44.880 --> 01:36:46.720 he wanted to do was shake my hand for coming 1807 01:36:47.239 --> 01:36:50.840 coming here. It was just so moving to it's still 1808 01:36:51.239 --> 01:36:53.880 it's still real for a lot of these people. You know, 1809 01:36:55.079 --> 01:36:56.840 it'd be like, I'm sure the way the Civil War 1810 01:36:56.960 --> 01:36:59.920 must have been. You know, in America it went on 1811 01:37:00.159 --> 01:37:02.359 for a long time. There was just pain. There's still 1812 01:37:02.399 --> 01:37:05.560 going on. Well, that's still raw there. I mean, there's 1813 01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:09.520 still guys are I mean, when I first moved to Cambodia, 1814 01:37:10.600 --> 01:37:14.159 we were averaging at least one young kid would get 1815 01:37:14.239 --> 01:37:16.720 killed a week with a bomb, you know, picking up 1816 01:37:16.720 --> 01:37:19.520 a bomb, you know something. You know, it was one 1817 01:37:19.560 --> 01:37:21.600 a week, and now it's I don't hear that much 1818 01:37:21.600 --> 01:37:24.760 about it. So that's dropped down a lot. But you know, 1819 01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:28.560 it in a country where that's just scattered, not only 1820 01:37:28.680 --> 01:37:35.920 with bombs at the that ther bullpots guys left, but 1821 01:37:36.119 --> 01:37:37.800 every time, you know, I don't know if you've ever 1822 01:37:37.840 --> 01:37:40.920 seen what comes out of B fifty two, those. 1823 01:37:40.880 --> 01:37:43.359 Little cluster munitions. 1824 01:37:43.640 --> 01:37:47.119 Cluster munitions, they look like balls to play with, and 1825 01:37:47.199 --> 01:37:49.800 they just go everywhere I've got you know, you go 1826 01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:51.800 into Laois and you can go and I went into 1827 01:37:51.840 --> 01:37:57.079 this museum where actually President Obama i'd have gone into 1828 01:37:57.520 --> 01:38:02.039 and there's all of these. It's it's sad because there's 1829 01:38:02.159 --> 01:38:06.680 all of these makeshift like they cut their own foot, 1830 01:38:06.760 --> 01:38:09.520 like they cut the wood thing for their foot. If 1831 01:38:09.520 --> 01:38:11.680 they've got their foot blown off, they build their own 1832 01:38:12.199 --> 01:38:16.279 prosthetic foot or hand or arm. You know. Still, I 1833 01:38:16.319 --> 01:38:22.079 mean that still goes on, and you know there's Loos especially, 1834 01:38:22.119 --> 01:38:23.880 it's still got a lot of I've got a friend 1835 01:38:23.920 --> 01:38:26.920 over there i'd get every day. I get stuff from 1836 01:38:27.119 --> 01:38:30.840 him on Facebook and he we drive motorcycles over there 1837 01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:33.800 and drive motorcycle. I mean, if you want to go 1838 01:38:33.880 --> 01:38:36.000 down the Ho Chiumn trail, I've got the guy. We 1839 01:38:36.079 --> 01:38:39.039 could go do a tour and it'll blow your mind, 1840 01:38:39.199 --> 01:38:42.760 you'll see, because everything's left the way. It was like 1841 01:38:43.079 --> 01:38:45.880 they only a couple of years ago they found a 1842 01:38:46.079 --> 01:38:51.079 giant Chinese tank that that that the Vietnamese were using 1843 01:38:51.399 --> 01:38:55.239 in Laos and it got covered over like the tour 1844 01:38:55.279 --> 01:38:57.239 it was blown off and then somehow got covered up 1845 01:38:57.239 --> 01:38:59.640 with dirt and then they were doing a bridge and 1846 01:38:59.680 --> 01:39:03.239 they covered this complete tank you know, with the with 1847 01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:05.880 the rounds in it and everything still ready to fire. 1848 01:39:05.920 --> 01:39:07.920 I mean, that's still you find amazing, you know, that's 1849 01:39:07.960 --> 01:39:10.640 going to be gone soon, you know, for the scrap guys. 1850 01:39:11.319 --> 01:39:13.680 We'll get it, but it's still there. 1851 01:39:14.520 --> 01:39:17.399 D uh. Do we have any viewer questions that we 1852 01:39:17.479 --> 01:39:19.520 can hit up? I think we have some. 1853 01:39:19.720 --> 01:39:24.199 Some viewers got some questions here, Give me one second, 1854 01:39:28.159 --> 01:39:31.800 Alejandra again, not to fanboy too much. Uh, but would 1855 01:39:31.840 --> 01:39:33.319 it be okay if I reach out to you to 1856 01:39:33.359 --> 01:39:35.920 send me to send my book to you and get 1857 01:39:35.960 --> 01:39:36.680 it autographed? 1858 01:39:37.479 --> 01:39:40.479 Oh? Absolutely, But what I will request is that you 1859 01:39:40.640 --> 01:39:43.800 send a return envelope paid for that. People do that 1860 01:39:43.840 --> 01:39:46.239 and I end up spending you know, six dollars to 1861 01:39:46.319 --> 01:39:48.800 send a book that I made thirty cents on. But 1862 01:39:49.079 --> 01:39:57.239 here's my My address is one two five Surfway, Unit 1863 01:39:57.439 --> 01:40:02.399 three three nine, Monterey, California, nine three hold. 1864 01:40:02.239 --> 01:40:14.319 On ninety three something ninety three nine four. 1865 01:40:14.399 --> 01:40:19.479 Oh and my email is Larry at el Chambers dot com. 1866 01:40:20.079 --> 01:40:21.520 That's really nice if you Larry. 1867 01:40:24.119 --> 01:40:26.600 Sure Scott G. Thank you. 1868 01:40:26.880 --> 01:40:30.079 I wore ten thousands tactical pants doing it job interview 1869 01:40:30.119 --> 01:40:31.399 and I ended up getting the job. 1870 01:40:32.319 --> 01:40:33.800 There you go. Good for you. 1871 01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:39.039 Ringing endorsement. Alejandro again, thank you. Can you tell a 1872 01:40:39.079 --> 01:40:40.359 story about the lightning strike? 1873 01:40:41.000 --> 01:40:47.520 He did? Joe's by the way, I got a purple 1874 01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:50.199 heart for that lightning strike. And Miller was the one 1875 01:40:50.239 --> 01:40:52.960 that pointed out. He said, did you ever read your 1876 01:40:53.119 --> 01:40:57.880 purple heart? It's for enemies against America? So God is 1877 01:40:57.960 --> 01:41:00.119 like your enemy. I mean Miller would always you know, 1878 01:41:00.159 --> 01:41:02.000 he was the most educated of all of us, and 1879 01:41:02.119 --> 01:41:09.119 he would somehow turned something on us with it. Jose 1880 01:41:09.279 --> 01:41:09.600 thank you. 1881 01:41:10.279 --> 01:41:13.680 Was radio direction finding every capability you guys used to 1882 01:41:13.760 --> 01:41:14.560 locate the enemy? 1883 01:41:14.680 --> 01:41:20.079 No, no, no, Ralph, think that might have been later. 1884 01:41:22.159 --> 01:41:25.880 Have you used your recon skills in the finance securities industry? 1885 01:41:25.960 --> 01:41:28.479 If so, what techniques were useful and what and was 1886 01:41:28.560 --> 01:41:30.359 it in an urban environment. 1887 01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:35.159 Urban environment? Well, I was a stockbroker in Salt Lake City, 1888 01:41:35.760 --> 01:41:41.039 But yeah, I definitely. I actually to brag, I opened 1889 01:41:41.119 --> 01:41:43.000 up more accounts for E. F. Hutton in one year. 1890 01:41:43.399 --> 01:41:45.920 I've set the record. I opened up three hundred accounts. 1891 01:41:46.399 --> 01:41:48.960 And what I would do, and this is when my 1892 01:41:49.800 --> 01:41:52.560 partner that started at the same time, he opened up 1893 01:41:52.560 --> 01:41:55.479 twenty four. But I opened up so many accounts because 1894 01:41:55.479 --> 01:41:58.119 what I would do is like I'd walk outside and 1895 01:41:58.199 --> 01:42:01.359 I looked around and I went like, wow, there's the 1896 01:42:02.079 --> 01:42:06.520 there's this golden in Salt Lake City. There's the temple, 1897 01:42:06.720 --> 01:42:12.439 you know, the Mormon Temple. But then there's also the well, 1898 01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:15.319 not the White House, but the governor you know, the 1899 01:42:16.319 --> 01:42:19.520 Governor's mansion or something. Well, yeah, for the you know, 1900 01:42:19.640 --> 01:42:21.159 it looks like the White House. And I'd look up 1901 01:42:21.199 --> 01:42:23.920 there and they had a gold It was the top 1902 01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:26.880 of the buildings gold. And I want like gold money. 1903 01:42:27.199 --> 01:42:29.840 So I called up the Treasure of the State of 1904 01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:33.239 Utah and I opened up the account. My first order 1905 01:42:33.359 --> 01:42:36.840 was like eight million. There was no eight eight hundred 1906 01:42:36.840 --> 01:42:40.119 thousand dollars bonds that I and I wasn't even sure 1907 01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:43.359 how to buy them. But I would like run into 1908 01:42:43.399 --> 01:42:45.079 my management, like I just got this guy in the 1909 01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:47.800 Phonian wants to invest eight you know, he's going to 1910 01:42:47.880 --> 01:42:50.319 roll over his mortgage money and we put together old 1911 01:42:50.359 --> 01:42:52.600 bond portfolio. But so I would I would do that. 1912 01:42:52.760 --> 01:42:56.159 I would. I would make sure because we were and 1913 01:42:56.199 --> 01:43:00.600 there was Merrill Lynch and we'd start at like start 1914 01:43:00.600 --> 01:43:02.520 at five o'clock in the morning. I would start at 1915 01:43:02.560 --> 01:43:05.000 four o'clock in the morning. I made sure that nobody 1916 01:43:05.439 --> 01:43:07.800 was earlier than me. This is in my early years 1917 01:43:07.840 --> 01:43:09.720 when I was starting, because I had more time to 1918 01:43:09.760 --> 01:43:11.600 get on the phone and call people. So I would 1919 01:43:11.600 --> 01:43:13.920 go in at four, just as an ego thing. I 1920 01:43:14.039 --> 01:43:18.520 found out that my I found out that the president 1921 01:43:18.840 --> 01:43:22.479 of this school, I found out. I'd find out what 1922 01:43:22.520 --> 01:43:26.640 people would make and then I would like, oh, somebody 1923 01:43:26.720 --> 01:43:31.079 had fired me once and it was another brokerage firm 1924 01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:33.680 when I early on when I started, and it was 1925 01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:36.479 because I couldn't pass that test, that first test. I'd 1926 01:43:36.560 --> 01:43:38.600 never never taken a business class, so I didn't know. 1927 01:43:39.239 --> 01:43:43.039 So I used to every month, I would send him 1928 01:43:43.079 --> 01:43:45.479 my run. And I was at one time, I was 1929 01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:48.000 averaging twenty thousand a month, but one month they made 1930 01:43:48.000 --> 01:43:51.319 forty thousand dollars, just like nineteen seventy eight, when that 1931 01:43:51.439 --> 01:43:53.199 was a lot of money for a month, and I 1932 01:43:53.199 --> 01:43:56.119 would I would send him my run and just like 1933 01:43:56.399 --> 01:43:59.720 just to so, I guess I used my e my 1934 01:43:59.840 --> 01:44:06.479 ego to to make to make myself be the best 1935 01:44:06.880 --> 01:44:09.840 me I could be. I never did anything illegal or 1936 01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:13.680 wrong or anything like that, but I just would push myself, 1937 01:44:14.520 --> 01:44:16.680 push myself because I knew I could take it. You know. 1938 01:44:16.960 --> 01:44:20.079 Like one time I gave a talk to this was 1939 01:44:20.119 --> 01:44:22.720 at the Santa Barbara Writers Conference. The last time they 1940 01:44:22.760 --> 01:44:25.079 ever invited me. I went and I talked to all 1941 01:44:25.159 --> 01:44:27.319 of these women that wanted to write memoirs. And I'd 1942 01:44:27.359 --> 01:44:30.880 written that recondo thing, and and I was writing every 1943 01:44:30.960 --> 01:44:32.840 day because I had two kids defeed and I got 1944 01:44:32.920 --> 01:44:35.880 up and I said, look, it's unfair because you can't 1945 01:44:35.920 --> 01:44:38.319 compete against me. I've got to make a living. I'm 1946 01:44:38.359 --> 01:44:41.520 not doing this because I've got some extra time and 1947 01:44:41.600 --> 01:44:44.359 I want to like write something. You know, I'm doing 1948 01:44:44.439 --> 01:44:46.359 this because I got two kids to feed, an ex 1949 01:44:46.479 --> 01:44:48.920 wife and probably soon to be another ex wife. I've 1950 01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:51.159 got to pay it. I got a lot to do. 1951 01:44:51.720 --> 01:44:54.439 And that's the attitude you've got to take with writing. 1952 01:44:54.800 --> 01:44:57.399 And I just would send stuff out to anybody, and 1953 01:44:57.479 --> 01:45:00.439 there's well, you're not supposed to send it to the editor. 1954 01:45:00.760 --> 01:45:02.680 I'd call the guy up. He's just a guy or 1955 01:45:02.720 --> 01:45:05.880 a woman. Hi, Larry Chambers. I got an article, and 1956 01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:08.359 I figured out I would I would give them the 1957 01:45:08.479 --> 01:45:11.600 article free, and I'd have some corporate like you have 1958 01:45:11.640 --> 01:45:14.119 a sponsors. I had sponsors that would pay me, so 1959 01:45:14.199 --> 01:45:16.960 I didn't need money from the magazine. So pretty soon 1960 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:22.640 I'm writing. I was writing three h three columns a 1961 01:45:22.760 --> 01:45:26.399 month and two books a year, three sometimes three books 1962 01:45:26.439 --> 01:45:31.399 a year, and I did that for years, So you know, 1963 01:45:31.479 --> 01:45:33.119 I guess that's how I used it. I just use 1964 01:45:33.199 --> 01:45:36.079 my tenacity. And you know what I always would remember 1965 01:45:36.600 --> 01:45:42.359 is standing there getting that that that that that air 1966 01:45:42.479 --> 01:45:46.000 metal pinned on my chest. I was so proud of that. 1967 01:45:46.159 --> 01:45:47.800 And when I do that, I would like get into 1968 01:45:48.079 --> 01:45:51.119 a stance and I could just go all day long. 1969 01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:53.920 I don't need drugs, I don't need anything, you know, 1970 01:45:54.039 --> 01:45:56.640 I don't need to drink. I just would just I'm pure, 1971 01:45:57.319 --> 01:46:00.560 like pride or I don't know the way explain it, 1972 01:46:00.640 --> 01:46:05.279 but I didn't use I didn't sneak around and steal stuff, 1973 01:46:05.359 --> 01:46:07.840 you know, to get if that was what the guy 1974 01:46:07.960 --> 01:46:10.720 was wondering, I didn't do that. I just used tenacity. 1975 01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:14.039 Tenacity would be the word I would say. 1976 01:46:15.079 --> 01:46:18.039 One more Scotchy. When you were attending University of Utah, 1977 01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:21.439 what was your opinion of the economics classes slash professors 1978 01:46:21.920 --> 01:46:25.640 and any Marxist economics they taught you? Since you planned, I. 1979 01:46:27.159 --> 01:46:29.720 Didn't take any economic classes I took. I was a 1980 01:46:29.800 --> 01:46:34.399 ski instructor back then. I'd graduated from I went I 1981 01:46:34.479 --> 01:46:36.760 became a ski instructor, and I taught it Alta and 1982 01:46:36.840 --> 01:46:39.760 I got certified at alf Ingens, which is the hardest 1983 01:46:39.960 --> 01:46:43.039 ski school in Utah. I mean there's the best of 1984 01:46:43.079 --> 01:46:45.479 the best. And so I taught for the University of Utah, 1985 01:46:45.840 --> 01:46:48.079 and I combined that I sort of made after I 1986 01:46:48.159 --> 01:46:51.800 got my first my bachelor's because I already graduated from 1987 01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:54.119 junior college before I went in the Army. Then I 1988 01:46:54.199 --> 01:46:56.960 came up to bachelor's and then I got a master's degree, 1989 01:46:57.039 --> 01:46:59.880 and I used the skiing as a part of a 1990 01:47:00.119 --> 01:47:02.920 part of that. Remember I told you I was dyslexic 1991 01:47:02.960 --> 01:47:07.800 and add so I avoided anything. Now, now, what's to 1992 01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:11.239 tell something on myself. The first book I read, I 1993 01:47:11.439 --> 01:47:14.880 probably wasn't It was Catcher in the Rye and I 1994 01:47:15.000 --> 01:47:18.439 was probably thirty years old when I read a whole book, 1995 01:47:18.479 --> 01:47:20.680 a whole novel all the way through. Was the first 1996 01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:23.720 book I'd ever read because I just avoided reading. I 1997 01:47:23.880 --> 01:47:26.840 was so bad at it, so dyslexic, I couldn't read. 1998 01:47:27.439 --> 01:47:30.720 And you know, so I like cheated most of my 1999 01:47:30.800 --> 01:47:34.199 way through grammar school. You know how they were going 2000 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:36.319 to put me back in the third grade. But I 2001 01:47:37.119 --> 01:47:39.359 learned how to forge my mother's signature, and I took 2002 01:47:39.439 --> 01:47:42.199 the note home and said, no, Heed, He's going to 2003 01:47:42.239 --> 01:47:44.319 go on, you know, and then I just would cheat. 2004 01:47:45.279 --> 01:47:48.720 But nobody knew I was undiagnosed. Nobody knew what that 2005 01:47:48.800 --> 01:47:51.880 stuff was. Yeah, yeah, or to how to deal with 2006 01:47:51.960 --> 01:47:52.600 it all right? 2007 01:47:52.680 --> 01:47:55.680 Last one, Mike, thank you, Thank you gentlemen for hosting 2008 01:47:55.680 --> 01:47:59.840 another another extraordinary man who did extraordinary things for our country. 2009 01:48:00.239 --> 01:48:03.760 Thank you, Mike, and thank you for the kind words. Yeah. 2010 01:48:04.199 --> 01:48:06.239 No, I feel the same boy, Larry. I mean, thank 2011 01:48:06.319 --> 01:48:08.720 you again for doing this. And I really hope that 2012 01:48:08.880 --> 01:48:11.279 folks out there will read his Uh. I mean, you have, 2013 01:48:11.560 --> 01:48:13.359 as you said, lots of books out there. Some of 2014 01:48:13.399 --> 01:48:17.439 them are about finance. Tonight we were talking about Racondo 2015 01:48:17.920 --> 01:48:20.680 and the other book Larry wrote, Death and a Shaw 2016 01:48:20.840 --> 01:48:24.000 Valley are definitely going to be of interest to our viewers. 2017 01:48:24.239 --> 01:48:26.239 I plaid through this book in a couple of days. 2018 01:48:26.359 --> 01:48:29.239 I really hope you guys will check it out. Larry 2019 01:48:29.840 --> 01:48:32.800 his his YouTube, his website. You'll be able to find 2020 01:48:32.840 --> 01:48:35.319 it just down below in the description to this video 2021 01:48:35.600 --> 01:48:38.720 or podcast if that's how you're listening to it. Larry, 2022 01:48:38.760 --> 01:48:40.920 any final thoughts, anything else that I failed to cover 2023 01:48:41.039 --> 01:48:42.039 that you want to get out there. 2024 01:48:42.399 --> 01:48:45.479 Well, yeah, this is this is for like like for vets. 2025 01:48:45.520 --> 01:48:48.680 I mean, one of the things that I've done is 2026 01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:52.680 I went in Cambodia. I found a woman that had 2027 01:48:52.760 --> 01:48:57.119 five young daughters, and I supported she. She did understand. 2028 01:48:57.119 --> 01:48:59.720 I remember telling her, You're not going to understand. You know, 2029 01:48:59.840 --> 01:49:02.479 I don't want anything from you. I want to help 2030 01:49:02.520 --> 01:49:06.840 your family, and I've sent them through school. I pay 2031 01:49:06.920 --> 01:49:10.880 for food lodge where they live, for meals, for their clothes. 2032 01:49:10.920 --> 01:49:12.479 I've done that for ten years and I've had some 2033 01:49:12.560 --> 01:49:15.479 people help me excuse me along the way, but I 2034 01:49:15.600 --> 01:49:21.640 sort of it indirect or directly adopted this to my family. 2035 01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:25.439 And I have to tell you, for a veteran, I 2036 01:49:25.560 --> 01:49:27.840 have so much meaning in my life because that's what 2037 01:49:27.880 --> 01:49:31.159 they say. You know, what what makes you for? You know, 2038 01:49:31.159 --> 01:49:33.800 I'm seventy five years old, I'm happy is shit, and 2039 01:49:34.000 --> 01:49:37.640 I've got two great kids that are adult children, Logan 2040 01:49:37.720 --> 01:49:40.600 and Kristen in America. But I've got all of these 2041 01:49:41.239 --> 01:49:44.720 people that I've helped in Cambodia, and I just feel 2042 01:49:44.960 --> 01:49:48.560 proud of that, you know, not like I owe the 2043 01:49:48.680 --> 01:49:51.199 Vietnam what Vietnam did to me. It's so I suggest, 2044 01:49:51.600 --> 01:49:55.840 you know, going and taking on a mission something like 2045 01:49:55.960 --> 01:50:02.159 in our motto in rotary service above self, and that's 2046 01:50:02.239 --> 01:50:05.159 what I get so much more out of helping somebody 2047 01:50:05.199 --> 01:50:06.840 else than my dumb shit stuff. 2048 01:50:07.560 --> 01:50:09.399 It's it's been really interesting to see a lot of 2049 01:50:09.439 --> 01:50:13.319 the Afghanistan veterans helping out Afghan immigrants in the aftermath 2050 01:50:13.399 --> 01:50:16.239 of the war and helping them come here and settle down. 2051 01:50:16.319 --> 01:50:18.199 And it's been interesting to see all of that. 2052 01:50:20.239 --> 01:50:25.199 Like the guy that wrote about this early on was, uh, 2053 01:50:25.920 --> 01:50:28.239 you know, the real it was he was in a 2054 01:50:29.399 --> 01:50:34.079 concentration camp and he saw that the two there was 2055 01:50:34.279 --> 01:50:37.159 two groups of people that made it. The ones that 2056 01:50:37.239 --> 01:50:40.119 were super religious so they held on their religion, which 2057 01:50:40.159 --> 01:50:41.960 I'm not in that group, but the other one was 2058 01:50:42.239 --> 01:50:44.560 they created a sense of meaning. That's why you always 2059 01:50:44.920 --> 01:50:49.760 hear you know, they're animant about the Holocaust and about 2060 01:50:49.760 --> 01:50:52.079 what happened. They will you they're not going to ever 2061 01:50:52.159 --> 01:50:55.079 let that die because that gives them purpose and meaning 2062 01:50:55.199 --> 01:50:58.960 in their life. And that's what those guys helping the 2063 01:50:59.359 --> 01:51:03.119 Afghanist and trying to get somebody all that stuff that 2064 01:51:03.359 --> 01:51:06.239 just gives you like a goal, of tangible goal to 2065 01:51:06.359 --> 01:51:09.159 reach and do. That's good and you know you feel 2066 01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:12.279 good about you. I mean, what a great feeling, you know. 2067 01:51:13.800 --> 01:51:17.520 Larry, thank you against so much man. And next coming 2068 01:51:17.640 --> 01:51:21.399 up this week, we're going to have two shows. Actually, 2069 01:51:21.560 --> 01:51:24.159 we're going to have on the twenty fourth Alex Hollings. 2070 01:51:24.720 --> 01:51:27.279 He's a former marine and he writes for a lot 2071 01:51:27.319 --> 01:51:31.079 of aviation stuff, a lot of aerospace news. And then 2072 01:51:32.199 --> 01:51:37.119 on Friday, episode eighty eight, Mark Denbaugh, who is a 2073 01:51:37.680 --> 01:51:42.199 warrior who represents one of the inmates down in Guantanamo Bay. 2074 01:51:43.039 --> 01:51:45.239 So we're going to have him in studio. It's going 2075 01:51:45.279 --> 01:51:48.399 to be an interesting episode, different perspective than what we 2076 01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:51.800 usually get around here. So yeah, Larry, I mean, this 2077 01:51:51.920 --> 01:51:55.560 has been amazing, Thank you so much, man, and you know, 2078 01:51:55.800 --> 01:51:57.479 please stay in touch, let us know if we can 2079 01:51:57.560 --> 01:51:58.199 help it anyway. 2080 01:51:59.000 --> 01:52:00.840 Yeah, you bet, well, thank you, it's been fun. 2081 01:52:01.279 --> 01:52:03.359 Absolutely all right. We will see all of you guys 2082 01:52:03.439 --> 01:52:04.000 next Friday. 2083 01:52:04.119 --> 01:52:04.359 All right. 2084 01:52:04.359 --> 01:52:06.720 Actually here more that we'll see you with Alex first 2085 01:52:06.760 --> 01:52:07.600 and then on Friday. 2086 01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:08.640 Okay,