Speaker 1: Javo Caretto Junior and Man, I am so excited. I'm
Speaker 1: actually kind of shaking it right now, sir. How are
Speaker 1: you doing tonight?
Speaker 2: I'm good Man. Thanks for having me, mav.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you absolutely, man, And I just want to
Speaker 1: say before we start, Man, growing up watching you, you
Speaker 1: were one of those heels.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: I hated watching whenever you could win or even when
Speaker 1: you came out. At times, I just it made my
Speaker 1: blood boil. And as I got older, I started to
Speaker 1: appreciate more and more just how well that you could
Speaker 1: generate heat just so quickly.
Speaker 3: Man. It was incredible and I absolutely loved seeing it.
Speaker 2: You know how many people tell me that I just
Speaker 2: did this La Comic Con this last weekend, and I
Speaker 2: got it. I got it a hundred times and people
Speaker 2: were like, Man, I used to hate you. Man, thank
Speaker 2: you for doing your job, and I go, Man, I
Speaker 2: was a heel. That was my job. My job was
Speaker 2: if you like me, then you know that was doing
Speaker 2: something wrong. Eddie and I used to when we were
Speaker 2: tag team and as little Carreros we first started off.
Speaker 2: We were heels. People forget that, but we were heels
Speaker 2: and people hated us. And you know the office was like, hey,
Speaker 2: how come you guys don't try to win, like you know,
Speaker 2: double frock splashes, And we're like, why would we do that?
Speaker 2: Why would we do something pretty because the first thing
Speaker 2: you do, like, God, those guys suck. But man, that
Speaker 2: was a great move. We asked. That's where the cheat
Speaker 2: to win and light chie steell came or came about
Speaker 2: because we never won as heels. We never won fair
Speaker 2: and square, never with a move. It was always hitting
Speaker 2: with the belt, putting your feet on the ropes, grabbing
Speaker 2: a handful of tights. That's how we were raised. If
Speaker 2: you're heels, you don't do pretty stuff, and that's what
Speaker 2: we did. We just kind of learned how to cheat
Speaker 2: with style. I guess you could call it.
Speaker 3: It's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1: And I was just thinking like, yeah, as heels, you
Speaker 1: don't want to do anything pretty or anything that's that cool.
Speaker 1: But maybe like double chair shots or something real quick
Speaker 1: when the ref isn't looking, something like that can maybe
Speaker 1: be good or it could work because it's a little pretty.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. This is one thing that I see
Speaker 2: with wrestling right now a lot. You know, we have
Speaker 2: a super gray area with wrestling, for sure, but everything
Speaker 2: is so planned out and so choreographed that, you know,
Speaker 2: double chair shots at the same time. I mean, unless
Speaker 2: it was Edgie Christian that they set somebody up and
Speaker 2: did the concertos man on the fly like that. You know.
Speaker 2: I've been in one hundred bar fights. I number once
Speaker 2: was like coordinating a double chair shot with somebody else,
Speaker 2: you know. So we just needed one, you know. And
Speaker 2: I just saw a just the other day. I just
Speaker 2: saw somebody sent it to me and I forgot all
Speaker 2: about it. But it was me and Eddie against Rakishi
Speaker 2: and Mark Henry. So I mean, on paper, there's no
Speaker 2: way we can win, but of course we cheated to
Speaker 2: win at the very end. You know, Mark Henry had
Speaker 2: Eddie in a press lamb. I came in, Uh, the
Speaker 2: ref was doing something with Wakishi. I came in with
Speaker 2: a chair and nailed Mark in the back of the
Speaker 2: of the of the thigh or the sh or the
Speaker 2: the calf. He went down. Eddie fell on top and
Speaker 2: covered him and was all right. I think he you know,
Speaker 2: I think he put he made Mark submit because he
Speaker 2: put him like the in Eddie's lasso from Olpasso. But
Speaker 2: you know, we got a lot of heat from that
Speaker 2: because we're like, there's no way these two small little
Speaker 2: dudes are supposed to be these two giants. But we did.
Speaker 2: We cheated, and we would we did.
Speaker 3: That's the fun part about being the heel.
Speaker 1: You can find ways to cheat and you know what,
Speaker 1: it goes with the character and that's what makes it
Speaker 1: so much more fun.
Speaker 3: Honestly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what after like, and it was cool.
Speaker 2: I mean the time, but you know, the nWo and
Speaker 2: d X were called was you know, the cool heels,
Speaker 2: and it kind of changed the game a little bit
Speaker 2: because you know, you cheered him and then they became
Speaker 2: baby faces and man, we did not want to be
Speaker 2: cheered at all period over that we didn't want to
Speaker 2: be cheered. And when we did those vignettes from one
Speaker 2: week to the next, when they aired, we went from
Speaker 2: being the biggest heels on the on the card too.
Speaker 2: We came out and they cheered us and as we
Speaker 2: were walking up me and they looked at each other
Speaker 2: like we're, oh, man, we're we're good guys, like that
Speaker 2: wasn't our, That wasn't our. And we even went to
Speaker 2: triple ahs, like, man, what happened? He goes you guys
Speaker 2: became too entertaining, and it was good. It was a
Speaker 2: good switch, for sure, But that wasn't We didn't do
Speaker 2: that to be baby faces. We didn't want to be
Speaker 2: baby faces.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 1: Not, of course, not one question I do want to
Speaker 1: ask you tonight, and I think this is a fair
Speaker 1: one to start off with. So how did you learn
Speaker 1: And if you don't mind asking me asking who taught
Speaker 1: you how to generate so much heat? How did you
Speaker 1: learn how to do that?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 2: That is literally in our DNA and we just grew
Speaker 2: up doing that. Or we used to watch my dad
Speaker 2: and his brothers, so Eddie's brothers, you know, be in
Speaker 2: Mexico or be in Japan and fight their way back
Speaker 2: to the ring or Puerto Rico fight their way back
Speaker 2: to the ring and having to crawl out the dressing
Speaker 2: room window to get out of there because people want
Speaker 2: to kill him. And you know, as a kid, I
Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is pretty this was awesome. Like
Speaker 2: it was, I mean, it was scared. But as we
Speaker 2: got away and they were all like, you know, you're
Speaker 2: toasting beers for like, man, that was awesome. That's how
Speaker 2: we grew up. We wanted to fight our way back
Speaker 2: to the locker room every single night, like against fans
Speaker 2: and anybody came in. That's that was our goal. So
Speaker 2: we just learned how to dreangenerate heat like that, and
Speaker 2: it's just it's very easy. In fact, I did it
Speaker 2: again not too long ago when I did like a
Speaker 2: private signing and people were asking questions about Rave stereo
Speaker 2: and dominic and stuff, you know, as I'm doing the
Speaker 2: you know, the the online signer or the the I
Speaker 2: guess it's virtual signing. And I had said something like
Speaker 2: something like, all right, Ray, enough with using the Guerrero stuff.
Speaker 2: We get it good though, we don't need your help.
Speaker 2: Somebody kind of you know, came back on that. I
Speaker 2: don't even know people were really watching that, and they
Speaker 2: came back. We're like, oh, Javo, you know, blah blah
Speaker 2: blah this and that, and I'm like, that's that's not heat.
Speaker 2: I go, you want to see heat, just watch? And
Speaker 2: I called up Ray and I go, Ray, don't believe
Speaker 2: anything you got to hear. I'm gonna tweet some stuff
Speaker 2: out right now. It's got nothing to do with you.
Speaker 2: I love you, man. He's like, all right, cool, no problem.
Speaker 2: So I did it. And talked about how he's robbing
Speaker 2: the Guerrero's and and he should be given that money
Speaker 2: to uh to eighties kids and all this different stuff.
Speaker 2: And I think I did one or two tweets. People
Speaker 2: were in an uproar. They went crazy, and literally after
Speaker 2: after I let it go for about a day and
Speaker 2: I literally said, Okay, guys, uh I, this is not
Speaker 2: thing different than I did in two thousand and five
Speaker 2: when I turned on Ray. There's nothing different whatsoever. I
Speaker 2: got you again, I go, that's how easy it is
Speaker 2: for us to generate heat like that and get people
Speaker 2: believe in it because it's rooted in truth. It could
Speaker 2: be if I was really a jerk, I could absolutely
Speaker 2: talk like that and be like, you know, you guys
Speaker 2: are making money off the girl name. It's all the work,
Speaker 2: and people don't like Like, I don't know, said once,
Speaker 2: that's just something we learned doing and we grew up
Speaker 2: doing that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you have such a grip on people, and it
Speaker 1: is incredible. Honestly, I've always really admired just how well
Speaker 1: you can control the crowd with that, just so easily.
Speaker 3: So uh with that?
Speaker 1: Would you say that your family and seeing how they
Speaker 1: performed as heels was some of your greatest inspiration growing up.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they knew how to be heels man. The original
Speaker 2: Los Guerreros were my dad and miuncle Hector as the
Speaker 2: Alomo Buster as they were called, and they were the
Speaker 2: heels bad and not big time like they you know,
Speaker 2: they people hated them. You know, they were feuding with
Speaker 2: the Rock and Roll Express and Windom and Rotundo and
Speaker 2: and uh Florida. And I watched it firsthand and it
Speaker 2: was it was awesome just to see those guys be
Speaker 2: masters of their craft.
Speaker 3: Fair enough.
Speaker 1: So uh, I also do want to ask you around
Speaker 1: what age did you start training, because being in a
Speaker 1: family like that, I imagine it may have been relatively young.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no age that I started training. And
Speaker 2: we grew up with the rusting ring in our backyard.
Speaker 2: So I heard Miley Cyrus talk about it one time.
Speaker 2: They're like, well, how did you know? When did you
Speaker 2: know you wanted to be a country singers? Just like
Speaker 2: when did I not want to be the same thing
Speaker 2: with us? There was no time like, okay, now are
Speaker 2: you going to start getting in the ring. No, we
Speaker 2: always sit in the ring like that was our that
Speaker 2: was our swing set. We didn't have a swing set.
Speaker 2: We had a ring and you know we used to
Speaker 2: playing it and Eddie and I broke both learned to
Speaker 2: walk in a rustling ring. We we said Campa underneath it,
Speaker 2: and that was like our tent, you know. So there
Speaker 2: was no time that I was like, okay, let me
Speaker 2: start training for wrestling. You know, when I decided to
Speaker 2: go pro. Now I did Paul show up and start
Speaker 2: working with some of my uncles and my dad and
Speaker 2: stuff on. You know, I could always do the moves,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know why I was doing the moves,
Speaker 2: so really worked more on psychology and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: But there was not a time that I just could
Speaker 2: always wrestle.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: You grew up doing the whole thing and it was
Speaker 1: just in your blood at that point.
Speaker 2: That was That's the way we fed our family for
Speaker 2: the last eighty five years is through wrestling. So way
Speaker 2: before it was you know popular and people were making
Speaker 2: millions of dollars, No, it was they were just we
Speaker 2: were just putting food on the table and trying to
Speaker 2: pay a mortgage, you know, through wrestling, and that's before
Speaker 2: they were big and popular and worldwide. That was you know,
Speaker 2: I grew up doing that. So that's why that respect
Speaker 2: and just that I guess knowledge rustling knowledge is just there.
Speaker 2: You just don't know where it came from. It's just there.
Speaker 3: That makes sense.
Speaker 1: So would you say that your character is more just
Speaker 1: a uh how do I put this? Just a larger
Speaker 1: than life version of yourself that you've kind of created
Speaker 1: and put in the ring that has been almost evolved
Speaker 1: through your family and just how you guys have done
Speaker 1: it for so long.
Speaker 2: My rusting character is for sure, it's it's the the
Speaker 2: my alter ego just just turned way up. You know,
Speaker 2: that's who I who I can be. How don't want
Speaker 2: to be that guy? But you know, my friend, my
Speaker 2: friends sometimes will call me the Mulk, the Mexican Hulk,
Speaker 2: because we'll be, you know, somewhere and someone messes with
Speaker 2: you know, there's always that one. There's always the one guy.
Speaker 2: Somebody's messes with my wife or or one of my friends,
Speaker 2: and before you know it, I grew to six '
Speaker 2: four real fast, and they're like, man, this this guy's
Speaker 2: this guy's a jerk. I'm like, well, what do you expect? Bro?
Speaker 2: You mess with the wrong one, bro?
Speaker 1: And sometimes people pull it out of you it is
Speaker 1: what it is, not that you want to be, it's
Speaker 1: just sometimes you got to be.
Speaker 3: But uh, all right, So.
Speaker 1: My uncle wanted me to ask you because he's a
Speaker 1: huge fan as well. But uh, something that he wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you about. Uh, it's actually because of a movie.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: He had claimed that he had seen the movie Airplane
Speaker 1: two and uh, there's a scene where they run out
Speaker 1: of coffee on the plane. He has claimed that you
Speaker 1: see a couple of wrestlers all of a sudden are
Speaker 1: in the alley or the isisleway and they're.
Speaker 3: Like duking it out for a second. He says.
Speaker 1: One of them looks like almost a young version of Eddie,
Speaker 1: but Eddie would have been too young at the time.
Speaker 1: Do you know if that's maybe one of your uncles
Speaker 1: or something like that, one.
Speaker 2: Of my my uncle Hector, you know, my uncle Hector
Speaker 2: mancal monda my father all you know, because we were
Speaker 2: in the LA area always, you know, dabbled in movies,
Speaker 2: you know. So my my father was in the One
Speaker 2: and Only with the Henry Winkler, among other things. My
Speaker 2: uncle Hector was in one of the Bad News Bears
Speaker 2: movies that he doubled, you know, the main actor Michael Mondo,
Speaker 2: after he kind of retired from Russell became a stuntman,
Speaker 2: was a stuntman for you know, twenty years in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: So it absolutely could have been. I just I just
Speaker 2: they've been They've done a lot of things.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's totally fair. So another friend of mine,
Speaker 1: his name's Kanan Rule, used to serve with him over
Speaker 1: here in the UK, a really good friend of mine.
Speaker 1: I actually asked him if he had any questions for you,
Speaker 1: and one of his was what I thought might have
Speaker 1: been a very good one. He asked, what was the
Speaker 1: conversation like between you and your family when you were
Speaker 1: getting ready to make your debut, when you were going
Speaker 1: pro what was that conversation like?
Speaker 2: How do you even know that there was a conversation,
Speaker 2: To be honest, I think it was just like all right,
Speaker 2: just stepping there is I mean, it just was a progression.
Speaker 2: It wasn't ever like a conversation to sit down. No,
Speaker 2: it was I wish there was a sit down and
Speaker 2: they could have told me what to watch out or
Speaker 2: what to look out for, but we didn't. We just
Speaker 2: just gotten in it.
Speaker 3: That's fair, Actually makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Considering just how in depth you already were with the
Speaker 1: whole business at that point.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was practically your life up to that point.
Speaker 2: That's there was. It wasn't like they pushed rustling on us.
Speaker 2: We just that was rustling. We ate, breathed, slept, dreamed, wrestling.
Speaker 2: It was there at all times. You know. I tried
Speaker 2: to distance my kids from it, just because it can't.
Speaker 2: It can consume, you know for sure. But you know,
Speaker 2: the you know, we all worked at the you know,
Speaker 2: we all knew. We always set up brings as kids,
Speaker 2: you know, for my grandfather's promotion and sell tickets to
Speaker 2: sweep up and sell popcorn and all that stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: So it was just our family business growing up. So
Speaker 2: you just went to the business.
Speaker 3: Makes sense, all right.
Speaker 1: So another question from my buddy over there, So how
Speaker 1: did it feel to debut Raymistereo when it was that time?
Speaker 1: How did it feel to work with him on his debut?
Speaker 2: I had, I had would work with him a whole
Speaker 2: bunch in w CW. So wasn't like it was different
Speaker 2: than Anthony new Ask him what it was like working
Speaker 2: with me? I would I had already been in in WWE.
Speaker 2: So he came in fresh, nervous as hell, and I
Speaker 2: had to calm him down, like relaxed, dude, you've done this.
Speaker 2: And we came out and tore the house down.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: It's almost like coming out with another old friend and
Speaker 1: just being like, Okay, hey, it's just another day at
Speaker 1: the office, different company, no different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know totally, you know, because you remember we
Speaker 2: all came from w CW and it was like, you know,
Speaker 2: nineteen of us that had come over, you know, so
Speaker 2: we weren't Vince's favorites, you know, because of the fact
Speaker 2: that we came from a rival promotion that he was
Speaker 2: trying to squash and he did. And if you know,
Speaker 2: everybody sees that invasion angle, it was kind of blah,
Speaker 2: you know, everything's oh, I could have been so much better.
Speaker 2: It was what it was. You know, who knows. But
Speaker 2: you know, you get locks in the shuffle a little
Speaker 2: bit because now you're throwing to the mix with all
Speaker 2: ww guys and you got to you got to earn
Speaker 2: a spot again. I came from a good little spot
Speaker 2: in WCW. But you start, no when he once WWF
Speaker 2: at the time, it was so you know, you have
Speaker 2: some matches but it's not like you know, your big
Speaker 2: show where you're sitting for four or five hundred pounds
Speaker 2: and they're going to put the strap on you. So
Speaker 2: that match with Ray, I'd already been there for I
Speaker 2: guess maybe two years, maybe a year and a half
Speaker 2: when he came in. That was my chance to showcase
Speaker 2: myself as well. So after that, not only did he
Speaker 2: get a good little push, I did as well. People
Speaker 2: started using me and going, Wow, we didn't know child
Speaker 2: could do that. I'm like, well, you just didn't give
Speaker 2: him a chance.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: I mean I just watched the match, probably an hour
Speaker 1: or two before we even hopped on here, just to
Speaker 1: refresh myself a little bit with some of your work,
Speaker 1: and uh, looking at all I could think was this
Speaker 1: is a very technically good match. Uh, Chavo, you do
Speaker 1: very well on the mic all the time. I still
Speaker 1: remember seeing you and just thinking, God, I just want
Speaker 1: to punch him in the face. He just every time
Speaker 1: that he gets on there exactly and it's like your
Speaker 1: heel work just does so well. And then seeing later
Speaker 1: on when you you know it was a work, but
Speaker 1: you injured Ray mystereo for a little bit with the
Speaker 1: I quit match and everything, and seeing your mic work
Speaker 1: when you put the mask on, pretending to be him
Speaker 1: and everything.
Speaker 3: All I was thinking, this man, this guy's just so
Speaker 3: good at his job.
Speaker 1: I still kind of hate him a little bit, but
Speaker 1: he's just doing it so right ady.
Speaker 2: I remember working with that when we did the mask
Speaker 2: on and I worked Eugene Nick, and you know, I
Speaker 2: was doing all the raised moves and the funny the
Speaker 2: story was at the end, you know, I was supposed
Speaker 2: to be the six nine and not landed and then
Speaker 2: take the mask off and you know whatever. So I was,
Speaker 2: you know, at the ring before and I didn't really
Speaker 2: rehearse too much because it's just just hurts. It hurts.
Speaker 2: You know. I kind of maybe can make some ideas
Speaker 2: in the ring, but I would never rehearse. So Vince
Speaker 2: is like, so you're gonna miss the six nine ers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's like, well let me see it. I said, like
Speaker 2: right now, there's nobody in the arena. It's like me,
Speaker 2: like for the people at the ring. He's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's really hard to do all that, like and crash
Speaker 2: and burn like that when it's you know, the red
Speaker 2: light camera's not on. You know, red light's not on.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, so I had a totally just
Speaker 2: cold and not even ring gear, you know, and just
Speaker 2: crash and burn, you know, try to do six or
Speaker 2: nine and totally eat it. And this was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that was great. So I ended up doing that in
Speaker 2: the ring and you know, beating the heck out of
Speaker 2: Nick Eugene doing all the raised moves but then not
Speaker 2: making you know, missing that that you know that six
Speaker 2: or nine on purpose of course, and then taking the
Speaker 2: mask up and come in in and just stalking Nick
Speaker 2: and then having him make the comeback right there. People
Speaker 2: went nuts. People were going crazy like oh shit, old
Speaker 2: and then you know I beat him at the end,
Speaker 2: but you know, I really was kind of eating them
Speaker 2: up before everything was moving was mine in the ring,
Speaker 2: except for once once I took that mask off. Then
Speaker 2: it was like, man, who's makers comeback? Was pretty cool?
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: I actually did get to see that match, him making
Speaker 1: the comeback and then seeing him hit the three amigos
Speaker 1: on you. For a second, all I was thinking was like, man,
Speaker 1: that's mad.
Speaker 3: Disrespectful, but it works in this story right now. And honestly,
Speaker 3: it was a good.
Speaker 1: Match to watch, and I haven't really seen much of Eugene,
Speaker 1: not really somebody that I really saw too much of.
Speaker 1: But honestly, it wasn't a bad match, and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say if you carried it, he carried it.
Speaker 1: I think it was a very good effort by both members,
Speaker 1: and I can appreciate a match like that no matter
Speaker 1: who's in the ring.
Speaker 3: Just the way that performance went.
Speaker 2: It was great. Nick Nick Nismore was great to work with.
Speaker 2: It's so easy. You know, he'd been around and read
Speaker 2: the VW and stuff for a while, so by the
Speaker 2: time we did that match, he was you know, he
Speaker 2: was great. It was easy.
Speaker 1: Workless absolutely, so I also do want to ask you
Speaker 1: about us, So how was I guess, what was the
Speaker 1: biggest difference between the w CW locker room and the
Speaker 1: w W lock room If there was really a difference
Speaker 1: with how things went or do you think it was
Speaker 1: just the same or do you think there's anything different?
Speaker 2: You know, it was wrestling was wrestling, of course, it
Speaker 2: was a little different, just because you know, w c W,
Speaker 2: the wrestlers had a lot of power because of the
Speaker 2: fact just the way that it was set up. You know,
Speaker 2: we didn't really have one true boss. You know, the
Speaker 2: boss was Ted Turner and then aol and then Time Warner.
Speaker 2: You know, Eric sure was the boss, but he still
Speaker 2: had an answer to people. He wasn't the end all
Speaker 2: be all, you know. So when we get to w
Speaker 2: W E or w B at the time, you know,
Speaker 2: it was Vince. Vince said, this has happened is happening.
Speaker 2: So that was pretty cool and you kind of see
Speaker 2: how a wrestling company should be run, you know in
Speaker 2: a sense. But you know there they were both they
Speaker 2: both were great, and they both were they both sucked.
Speaker 2: It depends the time it was and and when when
Speaker 2: I first started WCW, it was amazing. At the end,
Speaker 2: you know, when all the different people changed, the owners
Speaker 2: and stuff, you could see the product was diminishing. It
Speaker 2: wasn't as cool as it was. And the kind of
Speaker 2: the same with w B. When we were there all
Speaker 2: the way from you know, two thousand to about two
Speaker 2: thousand and seven or eight before they got really corporate,
Speaker 2: it was awesome. Man, I loved working there. Then at
Speaker 2: the very kind of the end was it wasn't as
Speaker 2: it just people are just worried about other things than
Speaker 2: the wrestlers. It just got such big business, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of cool to see it kind of
Speaker 2: revert back to really caring, you know, you see the product.
Speaker 2: It's really coming up. You know.
Speaker 3: The Triple EH era absolutely.
Speaker 1: I think with the corporate era that you're kind of
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, the PG era, it did kind
Speaker 1: of stunt some things, and I know the changes can
Speaker 1: be definitely a little bit annoying. But I also do
Speaker 1: want to ask, so, throughout your career and throughout the
Speaker 1: different companies that you work for, how much control have
Speaker 1: you had over your character and what you were going
Speaker 1: to be doing.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't you can suggest. So one thing
Speaker 2: you learned is that you know, those writers they're writing
Speaker 2: for in w W, the writing for Sena Batista, you know,
Speaker 2: d X, they weren't really writing for us because you know,
Speaker 2: we weren't the main card guys. You know, so you
Speaker 2: kind of you had to sometimes take what they gave
Speaker 2: you and make it work, you know, all the Kurban
Speaker 2: White era or whatever. You know, you just kind of
Speaker 2: had a you took you know, chicken and made chicken
Speaker 2: salad out of it. You know. So a lot of times, though,
Speaker 2: you know, whenever I really started doing stuff like the
Speaker 2: stuff that when we did the whole lightsheet steel stuff,
Speaker 2: that was me and Eddie. We went to Vince and
Speaker 2: pitched it. He liked it. You know, when I worked
Speaker 2: with Ray turning on Ray, that was me pitching it
Speaker 2: to write to Vince. You know, when me seeing punks
Speaker 2: started working, it was right to me, and Kine started working,
Speaker 2: it was right to Vince. So it wasn't like they
Speaker 2: had this idea for you. We had the idea and
Speaker 2: we sold it to the boss. That's how it worked.
Speaker 3: That's fair.
Speaker 1: So when you won your cruiserweight championships throughout a w
Speaker 1: CW now watching it through I'll be honest. I saw
Speaker 1: a short documentary about you on YouTube about this, but uh,
Speaker 1: did you feel like that was someone of your first
Speaker 1: steps into becoming like a major player and being recognized
Speaker 1: or how did you feel about it?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You know, you go into a by talent rich
Speaker 2: cruiserweight division. Though you know by the time I came in,
Speaker 2: man she's the it wasn't just eighty you know de
Speaker 2: Maliko ben Wat anymore. It was you know, Jericho, it
Speaker 2: was Mysterio, was all of the the Mexican boys from Mexico,
Speaker 2: you know, Kid min Man it was a it was
Speaker 2: a really deep cruiserweight division. So getting to be you know,
Speaker 2: become the guy the champ there and the cruizwie champ.
Speaker 2: That was really cool. I was like my first step
Speaker 2: to it. But then getting w W had to start
Speaker 2: over again, and I did, you know eventually see he's
Speaker 2: kind of you. I can see you flounder a little
Speaker 2: bit because you're trying to find your spot, you know,
Speaker 2: and that year you and half seen like a long time.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you got to start over and you got
Speaker 1: to really prove yourself.
Speaker 3: It takes time.
Speaker 2: Though it was fine, which was cool. I was cool
Speaker 2: with it, no big deal of it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So I do want to ask you about the Kerwin
Speaker 1: White gimmick a little bit.
Speaker 3: Uh. I just want to ask so, whose.
Speaker 1: Idea was it and how did you feel about it
Speaker 1: from the beginning to end, because I felt like it
Speaker 1: was entertaining, but it was a little off at times,
Speaker 1: and I felt like, you know what, you were doing
Speaker 1: your job regardless no matter what, and you really did
Speaker 1: put on a show with it.
Speaker 2: It was Vince. Vince came to me. I came walk
Speaker 2: off and playing from Japan and he goes, hello, Kerwin
Speaker 2: and I was like, okay, what does that mean today?
Speaker 2: You're going to do no your Hispanic heritage and you're
Speaker 2: gonna become a white guy. And I'm like, you know,
Speaker 2: you got two options. You say no and go well
Speaker 2: the Vince, the boss thought or something for you, and
Speaker 2: you turn it down. That could be the because of
Speaker 2: death right there could be your termination right there. Or
Speaker 2: you can take what he's given you and try to
Speaker 2: do it the best you can. And that's kind of
Speaker 2: what I did. In fact, you know, I told Vince.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a different time. Of course, it
Speaker 2: was very racist gimmick. You know. I was trying to
Speaker 2: piss everybody off. I was pissing off my Hispanic culture
Speaker 2: by denouncing them, and then I was becoming a Caucasian
Speaker 2: guy and making fun of them too. I was dressing
Speaker 2: very you know, over the top and golf and just
Speaker 2: like you know, you know we don't dress like that,
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you do. You know. I was just kind
Speaker 2: of trying to piss everybody off. So I told Vince,
Speaker 2: I mean, I had a meeting with him. I said, look, man,
Speaker 2: if we're gonna do this, to do right, I want
Speaker 2: to I want to end up like in a white sheet,
Speaker 2: and he was like, oh, oh wow, great. I said absolutely,
Speaker 2: I go, you don't have to do it, you know,
Speaker 2: like you said, k kk, I go. We could do
Speaker 2: something to where, you know, I'm pretending to get in
Speaker 2: my Halloween costume getting ready, you know, and I'm a
Speaker 2: ghost but it's got a hood. And he was like,
Speaker 2: well that's great. Anything like that he'd like. He he
Speaker 2: loved that stuff, so you know, of course, I think
Speaker 2: what happened was that the gimmick got a little two
Speaker 2: racist for for the PG era, I was working all
Speaker 2: like minority guys, you know, like shelling Benjamin into Jerry
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. You know, so you know, it
Speaker 2: it ran its course. And then when Eddie passed the
Speaker 2: next day, I was Cholblborough game. So that's how that ended.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unfortunate what happened with Eddie, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to make this whole episode about him, but obviously
Speaker 1: his story and your story do overlap some so it's
Speaker 1: definitely gonna be mentioned. But I did want to focus
Speaker 1: on your career. This is your show, man, but you know,
Speaker 1: Eddie is obviously a big part of your show as well,
Speaker 1: so it makes perfect sense to you know, bring him
Speaker 1: up all the time because it's part.
Speaker 3: Of you, man. But uh yeah, so let me see.
Speaker 1: So when you eventually went to Luca Underground, how did
Speaker 1: you feel about the creative processes there as well as
Speaker 1: the constant vignettes and almost the movie quality stuff that
Speaker 1: was going on there all the time.
Speaker 2: Luchs my baby man. I was supervisor producer on the show,
Speaker 2: and you know, I went from w W then I
Speaker 2: had a little short stand TEENA and then kind of
Speaker 2: stepped away from rustling for a second. Then got the
Speaker 2: call from luc Underground and I'm like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: their explained to me. I'm like, okay, it's a TV show,
Speaker 2: Mark Burnett's producer, and okay, well who's running it. I'm like,
Speaker 2: who's your rusting guys? You know, I'm like, oh, well
Speaker 2: go you I know it's a TV show. We're still
Speaker 2: gonna have thing. So that's when we came brought me
Speaker 2: on as a producer, and I learned really quick. Uh.
Speaker 2: I guess the knowledge that I didn't know I had
Speaker 2: for wrestling because I was you know, talking everybody. I
Speaker 2: was you know, helping with set, design, wardrobe, uh, you know, creative.
Speaker 2: I was the only when we first started the first season,
Speaker 2: I was the only agent, So there's times when I
Speaker 2: was wrestling, I was getting I was stretching with in
Speaker 2: the gorilla position with my headset and call in the
Speaker 2: match to the you know, the director and as I'm stretching,
Speaker 2: uh literally literally get run to the to the ring,
Speaker 2: get my match on and come the back and all
Speaker 2: sweating and pick up the system finished. So that was quick,
Speaker 2: like like how much you know? It was pretty awesome. Man.
Speaker 2: I loved I loved the vignettes. I think what happened
Speaker 2: was we were still filming the first season when the
Speaker 2: first episode aired, so as I didn't really know to expect.
Speaker 2: As I saw that first episode with all the cinematography
Speaker 2: and the cinematic aspect of that show, usually it's production
Speaker 2: trying to keep up with the wrestlers. Man, it was
Speaker 2: the rustlers we I took. I pulled the Russels sides
Speaker 2: and guys, did you see that first episode. They're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I go, we need a step up a game, and that's,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of what happened. We you know, I go,
Speaker 2: this is something that is something we did not expect.
Speaker 2: But it was really cool and it was very flattering
Speaker 2: to see people like TNA and and ww steal from us,
Speaker 2: steal the ideas, the cinematic aspect of the show, the
Speaker 2: way we filmed vignettes, different things, and it was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's it's you know, it's it's flattering to see that
Speaker 2: they actually stole it.
Speaker 1: And it was a a little bit different from WWE
Speaker 1: and TNA at the time because it had more theatrical approach,
Speaker 1: I would say, to wrestling at that point, and it
Speaker 1: was just so different that it gave a nice alternative
Speaker 1: that was almost I don't want to completely compare it
Speaker 1: to ECW in the nineties, but it was, you know,
Speaker 1: just that alternative route where it's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm getting tired of seeing the top two being WCWWWE
Speaker 1: at the time. You know, there's this alternative. It was
Speaker 1: something that was worth it, I thought. And I can
Speaker 1: greatly appreciate uh Luke Underground and everything that went on there.
Speaker 1: And I still remember, I believe it was the first
Speaker 1: episode you turn heel. Immediately at the end of the show,
Speaker 1: it was just like there it is again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I toltally. I mean, well we went from so
Speaker 2: I worked, you know, Blue dem at the end of
Speaker 2: the show was with the show the Bats a little lackluster,
Speaker 2: and right away we turned the heel started chair shotting
Speaker 2: everybody and it was like, oh, there I am, there
Speaker 2: is and they let me wrong with it for a while.
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, you've always been a great heel, why
Speaker 1: not let you continue it. I didn't know that you
Speaker 1: were that heavily involved with Looch Underground.
Speaker 2: That's interesting, big time man. That was That was That
Speaker 2: was awesome. That kind of got me started into Hollywood,
Speaker 2: to be honest. It got me started from you know,
Speaker 2: from the next thing I did from there was a
Speaker 2: show called Grim that was like on NBC where they
Speaker 2: had called me to play a character but to also
Speaker 2: choreograph the wrestling in it. So I'm like, I think
Speaker 2: I can do this, So I did it. You know,
Speaker 2: I go, I, well, I do it for wrestling all
Speaker 2: the time, but I just don't know if if it's
Speaker 2: the same thing. And sure enough I was able to
Speaker 2: do that, and then I went to Glow and that
Speaker 2: just started my my Hollywood career.
Speaker 1: It's fair and it's funny that you mentioned that, just
Speaker 1: because I don't think a lot of people understand how
Speaker 1: often that wrestling.
Speaker 3: Uh God, how do I put this?
Speaker 1: Wrestling theatrics are used in Hollywood today. A lot of
Speaker 1: people don't realize it, especially people who will say things like, oh,
Speaker 1: we really watch that stuff.
Speaker 3: It's all fake.
Speaker 1: It's like, what's the difference realistically.
Speaker 2: So the car crash that you know that Tom Cruise
Speaker 2: just did or Fast and Furisted did, well, they rehearsed
Speaker 2: it for a week. That make it fake. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's still a car crash even though they know exactly
Speaker 2: what's going on. So it's like pro wrestling, we're still
Speaker 2: falling eight feet through tables, through the ground. I mean,
Speaker 2: whether they're rehearsed it or not, it's it's still the
Speaker 2: car crash. So it's people that don't get it. They
Speaker 2: kind of don't know what they're talking about. In a sense,
Speaker 2: they don't have to like wrestling, just like you don't
Speaker 2: have to like the Fast and Fears movies. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, you can't deny that what we do
Speaker 2: is this live stunt show that there's no retakes, that
Speaker 2: we just do.
Speaker 1: It exactly, and I mean even showing a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: I think it was last night, because he's not really
Speaker 1: a wrestling fan. But he'll go along and he'll watch whatever,
Speaker 1: just for the heck of it. I had showed him
Speaker 1: the match where an undertaker threw mcfoley off the hell
Speaker 1: in the cell and immediately he's like, well, how can
Speaker 1: they really fake that?
Speaker 3: I'm like, what do you mean fake it? He just fell?
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing people don't. They can't grasp that
Speaker 2: that those stunts and those actual falls, like we really
Speaker 2: did it. I remember my one of my friend's wives,
Speaker 2: you know, I was hit by with a chair somewhere.
Speaker 2: She said, oh that, yeah, that must be a rubber
Speaker 2: share And I said, do you know how much it
Speaker 2: costs to engineer a rubber share? I said, So in
Speaker 2: Young Rock we had you know, our our actors doing
Speaker 2: this ladder match. Well, we're trying to protect him as
Speaker 2: much as we can, so we ordered a ladder that
Speaker 2: was the kind of rubber ladder, you know, even though
Speaker 2: they had time on it, so it was like this
Speaker 2: hard rubber ladder. They had us, you know, paint it
Speaker 2: and make it look like a real ladder. It was
Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars for one ladder, one ladder that we
Speaker 2: didn't even really use. So I'm like, where do you
Speaker 2: think you just get this rubber ladder ap. I mean
Speaker 2: it's rubber share ap and a rubber chair is going
Speaker 2: to hurt a lot more than his tiel chair. It's
Speaker 2: hard rubber, I said, you still gotta be able to
Speaker 2: sit on it. You gotta bas It can't just fall apart.
Speaker 2: It's not like it's bulso. Would you know you can
Speaker 2: tell when you get him a chair and explodes like
Speaker 2: in a movie, Well, then it's just nuts. That's a
Speaker 2: bulso wood chair. I'm like, these aren't. Those are real
Speaker 2: ladders that are following it, and her she almost couldn't
Speaker 2: believe it, like, but but that hurts. I'm like, hello, yes,
Speaker 2: it hurts. You were right, and she was like, how
Speaker 2: do you do that? She couldn't believe she thought it.
Speaker 2: This can't be real. It's real.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Scripted doesn't necessarily mean fake.
Speaker 3: And that's what some people don't really.
Speaker 2: Understand exactly exactly. I remember walking through the airport one
Speaker 2: time and somebody recognized me and he was like, javas
Speaker 2: up and his friend's like, who's that and he goes
Speaker 2: all the child girl's carusser and the guy literally like
Speaker 2: in front of me to my faces. I don't watch
Speaker 2: that fake s h I t. And I was like, uh,
Speaker 2: you want to see how real I am? And he
Speaker 2: looked at me and I said keep talking, I'll show
Speaker 2: you how real I am. And he was like uh
Speaker 2: uh And I go, oh, not that fake, is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I was kind of like just like, don't be
Speaker 2: a dummy man, and he was literally his friend was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right job. Will you tell him? Bro? Like, that's
Speaker 2: like you can't just insult somebody's job right there, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean it's like talking to like, oh, you're you're
Speaker 2: a you're a police officer, or you're stealing your or
Speaker 2: whatever whatever. Just demean him. He's still a police officer.
Speaker 2: That could, you know, mess you up.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I hear that definitely.
Speaker 1: Uh So, another friend wanted me to ask you about
Speaker 1: if you still have the God's Gift belt by chance?
Speaker 2: The oh the God the Gift from the God.
Speaker 3: Spelt yes, yes, that one.
Speaker 2: I do not have that one. That one was definitely
Speaker 2: a prop that was the show's belt that they kept everything.
Speaker 2: I don't we have no idea where it's at, but
Speaker 2: they kept it all.
Speaker 3: Somewhere, okay man.
Speaker 1: That it was such a cool looking one too.
Speaker 3: Honestly, it had.
Speaker 2: Some cool belts. That was cool because the medallions would
Speaker 2: go on. You know, you haven't win a tournament with
Speaker 2: the medallions on. It was pretty cool. It's very you know,
Speaker 2: Lichitt Girls, very had some very supernatural elements to it,
Speaker 2: where we had a guy that was a dragon that
Speaker 2: would fly off. We had a guy that was aerostar
Speaker 2: that was you know, inter dimensional, being a traveler. You know,
Speaker 2: so we we kind of could do that because it
Speaker 2: was such a like a TV show and not a
Speaker 2: reality wrestling show. You know, how does that lie in
Speaker 2: in w W E or maybe well, aw a little bit.
Speaker 2: You have the the Lucosaurus kind of doing some stuff,
Speaker 2: but you know, we all nobody knows things. He's a dinosaur,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: We suspend belief to a certain extent, but not too
Speaker 1: too much, right right, all right? So I do also
Speaker 1: want to ask you, uh so, how or what was
Speaker 1: your favorite parts about being involved with lujan around What
Speaker 1: was your favorite things about it?
Speaker 2: Lucihow on ground was everything? Man? I loved it. I
Speaker 2: loved putting out a rival product, a different product than
Speaker 2: everybody else, you know, and the guy just starting up
Speaker 2: a wrestling company really from the ground level. That was great.
Speaker 2: I loved different part of it. It was a lot
Speaker 2: of work, don't get me wrong, But I learned so much,
Speaker 2: you know. Really that started shaping my Hollywood career. You know,
Speaker 2: that kind of gave me the stepping stone to get
Speaker 2: to the next level, to the next level, to the
Speaker 2: next level of type.
Speaker 3: Thing that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So I've heard that you recently worked on The Iron
Speaker 1: Claw and you were working with all the actors on
Speaker 1: how to move and everything. So how did that experience
Speaker 1: go for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So much more than that, man. So basically, you know,
Speaker 2: the director contacted me once we decided to do it.
Speaker 2: You know, we gave me the script. I read the script,
Speaker 2: edited things that I didn't like, change things up because
Speaker 2: I'm a wrestler, I know, rusting terminology. And then you know,
Speaker 2: they had he had wrestling scene in there. We had
Speaker 2: to come up with a scene I got to run
Speaker 2: that buy him, kind of shoot some ideas off him
Speaker 2: and which we agree to do something next. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm teaching the actors from scratch. They're not wrestlers, they're actors.
Speaker 2: And after we teach and rehearse and you know, both
Speaker 2: sides and then I'm behind the camera with the director
Speaker 2: and we're directing that scene, changing angles, you know, working
Speaker 2: with cameras, working with with the DP which is the
Speaker 2: director of photography, like really working with all that, and
Speaker 2: then in the editing process, you know, so it's so
Speaker 2: much more than just you know, teaching the actress moots.
Speaker 1: Man, I didn't know that you were that deep into it.
Speaker 1: And what did you think of the final product once
Speaker 1: it came out?
Speaker 2: I loved it, you know, it was It's a tough
Speaker 2: story because it's you know, it's a true tragedy, tragedy story,
Speaker 2: you know, true tragic story. But I just would really loved,
Speaker 2: you know, how how it came out and told the
Speaker 2: story of this family that had so much loss, but
Speaker 2: you had somebody kind of rose up out of it
Speaker 2: in a sense. And god, man, I just I just
Speaker 2: loved it, you know. I love that the way that
Speaker 2: we were able to tell a tell the story or
Speaker 2: make a movie about men have I mean feelings because
Speaker 2: a lot of times we're not allowed to really in
Speaker 2: movies and in Hollywood and stuff. You just have to
Speaker 2: be this tough, crashingtect guy. But to have somebody vulnerable
Speaker 2: like that, like Zac Eirfron was, you know, I was,
Speaker 2: I think just a cool, just twist on movie making.
Speaker 1: I agree, And I think the message that you just
Speaker 1: put across as well, mentioning men having feelings, that's kind
Speaker 1: of what from what I've seen from Dark Side of
Speaker 1: the Ring in between the movie as well, that Fritz
Speaker 1: kind of tried to suppress that and just try to
Speaker 1: act like it wasn't allowed to be like you weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to really show that no matter what was going on,
Speaker 1: to seem.
Speaker 2: Like well, yeah, I mean we think about it, you know, Fritz,
Speaker 2: it was like my grandpas old school. You know, men
Speaker 2: don't cry, you know, you know, you you suck it
Speaker 2: up and go. You know, That's that's kind of what
Speaker 2: it was. You know, we all have that grandpa or
Speaker 2: uncle or whatever in our family. That was just that
Speaker 2: they were just tough guys. It was a different it
Speaker 2: was a different era. You know, Thank God that we
Speaker 2: were able to feel in a sense. You know, I mean,
Speaker 2: look at all the awareness of mental health now. You know,
Speaker 2: ten fifteen years ago, you didn't talk about that. You
Speaker 2: just kept it to yourself, whether you had bipolarism or
Speaker 2: any of the other mental health issues or struggles you
Speaker 2: were kind of especially for a man, you were very
Speaker 2: quiet about it. And now it's really coming to light
Speaker 2: and we're able to help a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: I think that we're changing.
Speaker 1: For the good, absolutely, And something that I'd like to
Speaker 1: bring up, and I hope this isn't too far for
Speaker 1: you man, bringing up pills and everything with Eddie and everything,
Speaker 1: but something that a lot of people, especially in the
Speaker 1: Old Guard, used to just take pain pills constantly to
Speaker 1: hide both physical pain and sometimes did lead to emotional
Speaker 1: things happening and whatnot.
Speaker 3: And you know that's something that.
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people really could register
Speaker 1: that men at times, yeah, you still felt pain no
Speaker 1: matter how much you tried to suck it up and
Speaker 1: just keep going right.
Speaker 2: And then that line with you know, the opioid epidemic
Speaker 2: that was in Hollywood, that I mean Hollywood, that was
Speaker 2: in the United States where everybody was you know, how
Speaker 2: easy was it for people to get pills? And you
Speaker 2: see documentaries on it now and they were just giving
Speaker 2: them out, just giving them out to people. You come
Speaker 2: in see a doctor in a thirty station and he's
Speaker 2: throwing you one hundred Viking ins. You know, so there
Speaker 2: was you know, a huge and we're still dealing with it,
Speaker 2: you know, a huge opioid epidemic in the United States.
Speaker 2: And that didn't just go into wrestling. It went to
Speaker 2: all aspects of life. It wasn't just wrestlers that died.
Speaker 2: It was you know, students and lawyers and doctors and
Speaker 2: just everything. It really affected. It's almost like that was
Speaker 2: the latest drug phrase. When you had the you know,
Speaker 2: crack epidemic in the in the in the eighties, you
Speaker 2: had the opioid epidemic down this in the two thousands,
Speaker 2: Fetanohl going on, all this stuff, you know. So, but
Speaker 2: it's a it was a definite problem, man. It was
Speaker 2: something that wasn't just a specialized to wrestling. Everybody was
Speaker 2: doing it absolutely, So I'm super glad that that's coming
Speaker 2: to light now. And you know, if you go try
Speaker 2: to get a painkill now, it's like they do not
Speaker 2: give them out anymore. It's you know, thank god.
Speaker 1: Absolutely something else that I didn't want to ask you about,
Speaker 1: the Iron Class, so it didn't include one of the
Speaker 1: von Erik brothers. That stuck out to me towards the
Speaker 1: end as a wrestling fan and knowing.
Speaker 3: The history can you shed a little bit more light
Speaker 3: on that?
Speaker 1: For me, I was just a little lost on why
Speaker 1: they didn't include the last one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so let's let's look at this movie not
Speaker 2: as a Rustling fan, as cinema frame somebody who watches
Speaker 2: movies regular Joe that doesn't know anything about wrestling, and
Speaker 2: you watch this movie, which is the majority of people
Speaker 2: who watched this movie. It wasn't catered to a Rustling
Speaker 2: fan because rusting fan is a very small handful. You
Speaker 2: cater to the masses. And just think, now we this
Speaker 2: is a two hour, nineteen minute movie. Already you have
Speaker 2: one two suicides in there and a death and two
Speaker 2: deaths actually, and now we throw in another suicide. How
Speaker 2: much you know? I don't think. And what's one thing
Speaker 2: that the death is that Sean Dirk and the director
Speaker 2: that I mentioned to him the same thing when I
Speaker 2: read the script. I said, you know there was another
Speaker 2: von Eric that killed himself, right, And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the film wouldn't have survived it. It was just I mean,
Speaker 2: how much can you could you know? Keep this? It's
Speaker 2: not a This isn't a Netflix mini series or a
Speaker 2: docu series where it's got episode thing. No, this is
Speaker 2: a one sit down movie. And right now in Hollywood,
Speaker 2: you have a three hour movie, you're gonna lose audience
Speaker 2: members because of our short attention spans. Now, you know,
Speaker 2: if I if I see a movie it's three hours, like,
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna watch it. It's just too long for me.
Speaker 2: I can't sit down for three hours and see and
Speaker 2: see that it's not you know that it's just not
Speaker 2: done as much anymore. So you got the choice when
Speaker 2: you're you know, you got a studio a twenty four
Speaker 2: that is expecting you to put out a movie, not
Speaker 2: a wrestling movie.
Speaker 3: We're not.
Speaker 2: This isn't a movie that's being shown in WW network.
Speaker 2: So that's where you're at. And if you really get
Speaker 2: into it. The first child that died, he was they'd
Speaker 2: really taught touch on it. He was electrocuted as a
Speaker 2: kid when they were living in that trailer, traveling town
Speaker 2: to town. You know, electricity and traders weren't the standards.
Speaker 2: Weren't where they are now. Well that there's treaders plus
Speaker 2: in the trader tongue was electric was electrified. The kid
Speaker 2: touched it, his five year old kid, seven year old.
Speaker 2: I don't know if his age actually touched it, got electrocuted.
Speaker 2: It was in the middle of winter, fell down in
Speaker 2: a puddle of melted snow and drowned right there. We
Speaker 2: didn't include that either. We didn't include that David, who's
Speaker 2: was named after I believe his mother's brother, had also
Speaker 2: died tragically. I mean, where where were we going to stop?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Movie, it's a two hour, nineteen minute movie, or which
Speaker 2: is already long. So if you think about it now,
Speaker 2: that makes sense, right, it makes sense. Not just man,
Speaker 2: you know, it sucks that they couldn't put Chris in there,
Speaker 2: but it was just it was just too much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I agree with that.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to hear it from somebody that was
Speaker 1: involved with the script and everything.
Speaker 2: Watch The Dark Side of the Ring and you know
Speaker 2: you can hear that story or or you know, there
Speaker 2: was a little fun error, you know turn affairs and
Speaker 2: stuff that were that were done that kind of told
Speaker 2: more of the story. But you know, that's it. Just
Speaker 2: that's a tough one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Uh.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you going into that a little bit
Speaker 1: with me, just because it, uh, it does help to
Speaker 1: shed some light on it and have the explanation from
Speaker 1: somebody that was so involved with the script and everything.
Speaker 2: Then a little insighting in movie making, you know, and
Speaker 2: how many you know, not documents but biopics that you
Speaker 2: see out there, you know, tell the whole story, you don't.
Speaker 2: You don't hear it on when you see Ray. You know,
Speaker 2: with uh Jamie Fox, there was a lot they left
Speaker 2: out and they had to. It's just a it's a movie.
Speaker 2: It's a two two two and a half hour movie.
Speaker 2: You know, if you look at anybody, you know the
Speaker 2: Queen biopic, you know, there's a lot that you leave out.
Speaker 2: You can't conclude everything. It's not a book. So that's
Speaker 2: if any any biopic that you see, it is good
Speaker 2: to these stuff out. It has to. You can't just don't.
Speaker 2: There's not enough time, fair enough.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I really appreciate you going over that with me.
Speaker 1: So back on the topic of wrestling. So, when you
Speaker 1: had won your ECW title and you were with WWE
Speaker 1: at the time, how did it feel at that time?
Speaker 1: Were you really excited about it? Did you think this
Speaker 1: was the next step for you?
Speaker 3: How did you feel?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, anytime they put a championship on your
Speaker 2: championship belt, it's always an honor for sure. It's not
Speaker 2: like they're just just giving it to you, you know,
Speaker 2: for the most part there it's always an honor, you know,
Speaker 2: to held the the e c W Championship. So when
Speaker 2: Eddie and I grew up, we always pretended that we
Speaker 2: were our goal, you know, our goal. But our dream
Speaker 2: in a sense was to become the tag team champions
Speaker 2: of the world because we would see his brothers, my
Speaker 2: dad and my uncles uh be the you know, be
Speaker 2: the tacking champions, and we would as kids, we would
Speaker 2: play tag team Champions in our backyard with their belts.
Speaker 2: We'd get the belts and pretend that we were, you know,
Speaker 2: the champions. So that was our our this goal you
Speaker 2: call it, but we didn't. It wasn't like it was
Speaker 2: a goal, but that's what we wanted to do. So
Speaker 2: when we achieved that in WWE Madison Square Garden Survivor Series,
Speaker 2: you know, then you start making other goals for yourself.
Speaker 2: So we made goals to become the heady champions, you know,
Speaker 2: and Eddie was a w W champion. I became ECW champions,
Speaker 2: so you know that that was the next step.
Speaker 3: Fair enough.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'm really glad that you were able to get
Speaker 1: that next step. But between you and I, man, I
Speaker 1: kind of always saw you as somebody who you didn't
Speaker 1: really need the belt to be over as well. Well,
Speaker 1: you were an incredible heel, so you were always doing
Speaker 1: your job very well. It's kind of one of those
Speaker 1: guys where I always felt like you didn't really need
Speaker 1: the belt just because you got the reactions every time
Speaker 1: no matter what. But having it it's a great accolade
Speaker 1: for you, and I'm really glad that you were able
Speaker 1: to accomplish.
Speaker 2: That, you know, and what comes along with that title
Speaker 2: like that and working, you know, you're really any title,
Speaker 2: the championship, you know, attacking champions you you know, your
Speaker 2: your pay does go up because you're working a lot
Speaker 2: and you're working on all the shows. So having that
Speaker 2: championship or a championship, you know, you're definitely gonna make
Speaker 2: more money. Not just of course being you know, the
Speaker 2: w B champion or the Universe Champion what they call
Speaker 2: it now. You know, of course that comes with a
Speaker 2: lot of responsibility, but a lot more money as well,
Speaker 2: but become you know, the ec W champion. I think
Speaker 2: that was my biggest year ever I worked. I worked
Speaker 2: a lot. I was on everything because then we became
Speaker 2: part of low Familia with Edge and he was the
Speaker 2: heavyweight champion. I was easter W champion. I think at
Speaker 2: one point we had Writer and Hawkins is the tag
Speaker 2: team champions. So uh, we were like on every house show,
Speaker 2: every CW, every SmackDown, sometimes raw. So we were just
Speaker 2: like working working a lot, a lot. But you you
Speaker 2: made why are you in this business? You're here to
Speaker 2: make money? So that was that was cool with.
Speaker 1: It absolutely So I do also want to ask you,
Speaker 1: so anybody that you could possibly wrestle from past president
Speaker 1: I almost want to say future, but you know, maybe
Speaker 1: if you see an up and coming who would you
Speaker 1: see as an ideal dream match for you and your
Speaker 1: prime and them in their prime if you could absolutely
Speaker 1: put it together.
Speaker 2: I would have loved to wrestle Rick Steamboat as a babyface.
Speaker 2: I would love to wrestle Shawn Michaels. You know, I
Speaker 2: did tag team stuff against him and he was He's
Speaker 2: just so good. I would have liked to have done
Speaker 2: that nowadays. You know, I like Pak who's over in
Speaker 2: a e W. He's really great. I think it has
Speaker 2: some really great matches with him. God guys. So many
Speaker 2: of the guys. I mean, I could go on in
Speaker 2: all the usos Man does, the no I EV family,
Speaker 2: They're all so good. Just get in the room with
Speaker 2: any one of them is awesome. You know, you could
Speaker 2: go on now. But there's a lot of talented guys
Speaker 2: out there that I believe having someone who who's been
Speaker 2: around a little bit and and has made those mistakes
Speaker 2: and learned from them and had some really good teachers
Speaker 2: to pass that on to them to get them to
Speaker 2: become even better rustlers. You know.
Speaker 1: Agreed, agreed, and uh with that, I'd also like to ask,
Speaker 1: do you still came up with the product at all?
Speaker 2: Sure? I don't watch it every Monday or whatever the
Speaker 2: other one was on Friday, but yeah, sure you're you know,
Speaker 2: I do check the sights a lot and see, you know,
Speaker 2: what happened last night on Raw that kind of stuff
Speaker 2: for sure. Especially with social media, you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: always there. Intend to turn on. You know, you'll see
Speaker 2: stuff with on Instagram with you know, with Dominic and
Speaker 2: Live and Raya and all that stuff. Is such a
Speaker 2: cool storyline, but you see, you see it firsthand.
Speaker 1: You know absolutely, so what I was gonna ask was
Speaker 1: so with all these up and coming guys. You know,
Speaker 1: you got Damien Priest, You've got Dominic Mysterio. Now who
Speaker 1: really stands out to you personally?
Speaker 2: There's a ton of them. Man, there's everybody that's so good.
Speaker 2: Finn Baylor that can't do anything is amazing. I love
Speaker 2: you know Ricochet that he just moved to a w
Speaker 2: Dominic's doing amazing and you know what to see him
Speaker 2: get even better kind of. I mean, there's just a ton.
Speaker 2: There's a ton all the girls. The girls, they stepped
Speaker 2: it up so much. There's so good now.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, women's wrestling has come such a long way, especially
Speaker 1: from the past what fifteen years, I'd say, my god,
Speaker 1: it is moving them out.
Speaker 2: Well from you know, broad panty matches and them being
Speaker 2: like you know, eye candy to these people that are
Speaker 2: headlining WrestleMania and how that had to do with like
Speaker 2: Ronda Rousey before she came to WW man, she just
Speaker 2: showed that, you know, women can draw, you know, and
Speaker 2: people were against it for a long time. They had
Speaker 2: their their place, if you want to call their site.
Speaker 2: Show kind of sprinkled in place on the on the show.
Speaker 2: But now all of a sudden you know, they're they're
Speaker 2: killing it. I mean, these girls are having an amazing matches.
Speaker 2: Charlotta Flair just she kills it. She's so good.
Speaker 3: Absolutely totally agree.
Speaker 1: I mean we went from swimsuit contests and whatever else
Speaker 1: that was just kind of demeaning to women now to
Speaker 1: they are the headliners for WrestleMania and it works.
Speaker 3: It fits.
Speaker 1: Everybody absolutely loves it. So totally agree.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: You know, they're really good. They're uh, you know, they
Speaker 2: went from being the Godfather's hose to headlight in wrestle media.
Speaker 2: So it's it's a great thing. I'm super happy for.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So, Uh, do you have any future projects that you'd
Speaker 1: like to tell anybody about or is that something you'd
Speaker 1: like to keep more secret or anything.
Speaker 2: Definitely. I'm always in you know, in La, I mean
Speaker 2: Hollywood doing different projects and working on different things. So
Speaker 2: I got a couple of things that are coming up.
Speaker 2: You know, hopefully we get that Ric Flair biopic off
Speaker 2: the ground. Uh. You know, I was supposed to do
Speaker 2: the whole Hogan biopic. I don't know what's going on
Speaker 2: with that right now. I think that's just a little
Speaker 2: stalled right now, depending but you know, there was there's
Speaker 2: always commercial I just finished a commercial in Atlanta about
Speaker 2: a month ago, so you know, there's always projects coming up.
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome, glad to hear it.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: So, uh, we're getting down towards the end of the
Speaker 1: episode here. So as always, i'd like to ask if
Speaker 1: you have any recommendations for the audience for book, movie,
Speaker 1: TV show, song, doesn't matter what it is, any recommendations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Iron Claw, I love you know, TV shows. Let
Speaker 2: me see, I just started, you know, I kind of
Speaker 2: watch them here or there once in a while. I
Speaker 2: reboot them sometimes, Like I just finished watching Game of
Speaker 2: Thrones again and went back and watched that. It was
Speaker 2: even better at the second time. I'm I think that
Speaker 2: one season or two seasons left the Sopranos just because
Speaker 2: you know, there was twenty five years ago and you
Speaker 2: don't you know, you just don't remember it and you
Speaker 2: go back and wow, what a masterpiece it is. But
Speaker 2: right now I'm watching Fight Night. I'm watching Fight Night.
Speaker 2: That's got every African American actor in it and they're
Speaker 2: killing it. It's on Paramount, I believe, or maybe Peacock.
Speaker 2: It's one of the piece that was really cool, cool
Speaker 2: mini series that's cool. I haven't read a good book
Speaker 2: in a while except for this one from my boy
Speaker 2: Hannah Gracie, and it's the Cool Ones. It's the thirty
Speaker 2: two Principles of Jiu Jitsu and harnessing the power of
Speaker 2: jiu Jitsu to succeed in business, relationships, and life. It's
Speaker 2: a great read, and especially for us that are you know,
Speaker 2: love combat combat sports, but to actually apply that into life,
Speaker 2: it's pretty cool. That's kind of the stuff that I like.
Speaker 2: You know, I like sometimes of fiction stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: it just depends. Like I read uh old stuff like
Speaker 2: the Charles Manson Cia book that was that was pretty
Speaker 2: cool just to see how they were like tracking them
Speaker 2: and all that different stuff. But you know, that's kind
Speaker 2: of stuff that I like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: So a recommendation for this week for anybody that's listening,
Speaker 1: uh I would honestly recommend I've mentioned it on the
Speaker 1: show before, but I would recommend watching slum Dog Millionaires
Speaker 1: just because it's one of those movies. Man, it can
Speaker 1: get to you and.
Speaker 2: It's very great movie. If you've never seen Slung Jog,
Speaker 2: it's it's such a good movie, such a good way.
Speaker 2: Now beating in the movie as I saw it before
Speaker 2: I was I got to go back and watch it
Speaker 2: again just because now I look at it completely different.
Speaker 2: Now you need to see how the I just told
Speaker 2: the story, but they they used the script and camel
Speaker 2: to tell that story. It's pretty cool. And for people
Speaker 2: that are watching what we do in wrestling, and this
Speaker 2: is a lot of I show up this if I'm
Speaker 2: doing a seminar or telling you know, young Rustler's guys.
Speaker 2: We tell stories out there. It's what we're doing in
Speaker 2: the ring. We use those moves, the wrestling moves to
Speaker 2: tell the story, but the wrestling moves are not the story.
Speaker 2: Just like in a movie, you use explosions and stuff
Speaker 2: to tell the story, but there's explosions aren't the story.
Speaker 2: You have to get them connected to a character, whatever
Speaker 2: character they have to be making love you or hates
Speaker 2: you in a movie so that you're invested in it.
Speaker 2: It's the same thing in wrestling. And wrestling you gotta
Speaker 2: get him to hate and hate you or love you
Speaker 2: because then they care about you. But when you're just
Speaker 2: this guy that does some flips and okay, whatever next next,
Speaker 2: who cares? That's not how you do it. So if
Speaker 2: you just remember that here almost that you're watching a
Speaker 2: movie or a part of a movie. In a rustling match,
Speaker 2: they you have to get the crowd to connect to
Speaker 2: you somehow. Look at Dominic, but what he's doing, he
Speaker 2: doesn't do any He stands there with that stupid mustache
Speaker 2: and Eddie's hair and people hate him, but they care,
Speaker 2: they care about him. He's doing a great job.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, totally agree. And the storyline with Ray Ripley
Speaker 1: and Live I think it was phenomenally done.
Speaker 2: Oh cool, so good, absolutely.
Speaker 1: So right in the end of the show, here, do
Speaker 1: you have any last thing you want to say to
Speaker 1: the audiencer?
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, Hey, thanks a lot for listening and watching
Speaker 2: the following my career, you can check out more stuff
Speaker 2: I got going on on my Instagram at child World Junior.
Speaker 2: That's some kind of where everything goes on. I'm also
Speaker 2: on like extra Twitter it's called at mex Warrior. And
Speaker 2: I also have a Facebook at child World Junior, not
Speaker 2: the fake one that sells things as a guy out
Speaker 2: there that's got a fake profile. To me, that's trying.
Speaker 2: I never sell anything on my Facebook, never said so
Speaker 2: that's not real. So but check me out. You can
Speaker 2: see all the stuff going on working on my I
Speaker 2: have a beer rop, my Thtse girls, Mexican logger. You
Speaker 2: can check out stuff, where to drint that uh, and
Speaker 2: just all the different different things I got I got working.
Speaker 2: I'm always got a lot of I've got a lot
Speaker 2: of irons in the fire man. I'm always doing stuff awesome.
Speaker 1: I was actually going to bring up the fake Facebook
Speaker 1: account think and I'm glad that you did, because I
Speaker 1: was going to ask you about it because it accepted
Speaker 1: a freer question from me.
Speaker 3: I was like, I must be a joke or something
Speaker 3: not real.
Speaker 2: So I's got like some of my real Facebook acounts
Speaker 2: got way more than him. I don't know why I've
Speaker 2: I've reported them and people so many people have reported him,
Speaker 2: but he's selling fake stuff on there. And then from
Speaker 2: what I under here at stand is as soon as
Speaker 2: somebody paypals and the money that he blocks them and leads,
Speaker 2: he keeps some money. So that is not me report them,
Speaker 2: and I don't if Facebook, if you're listening, shut it down.
Speaker 1: I think the account's been shut down by now because
Speaker 1: he disappeared off my friend's list. I promise I never
Speaker 1: bought anything from him, but.
Speaker 2: There, it's still there. It's Billy totally. I check it
Speaker 2: out all the time and I'm like, how have they
Speaker 2: not gotten rid of this guy? But anyways, that's it
Speaker 2: all right.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the show and
Speaker 1: I really really appreciate it. For everybody listening tonight, you
Speaker 1: guys know how it goes usually for me at the end,
Speaker 1: do something nice for somebody you never know who needs it.
Speaker 1: And with that, once again, you guys know how to
Speaker 1: reach me at maintenance MAV And with that.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks guys. Appreciate you man, and thank you.
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening to the ww podcast. Don't forget to
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Speaker 4: next time.