WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.759 Everyone. This is Matt Ford from The Good Trouble Show. Firstly, 2 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:06.759 thank you very much for joining us on this podcast. 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:09.240 I wanted to give you a little heads up about 4 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:13.519 this incredible interview we had with doctor Eric Davis. For 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.320 the most part, we tape our interviews so if we 6 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.600 have any technical issues, we can fix them right then 7 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:23.199 and there. But this interview we actually did live, and 8 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:27.359 sure enough, as things would have it, my microphone was 9 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:30.399 cutting in and out. So during this interview you may 10 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:33.840 hear doctor Davis reference that he didn't hear my question, 11 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:37.240 or you might hear sort of jumps or pauses in 12 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.719 the audio. That is why. Hopefully that won't happen again, 13 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:45.159 but hey, when you're doing things live, shit happens. Anyway. 14 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.520 Thank you very much for joining us, and I hope 15 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:49.200 you enjoy this interview. 16 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:50.840 Doctor Davis, how are you, sir? 17 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:56.840 Good? Your audio was cutting out during your introduction? Oh boy, 18 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.439 well yeah, I was going in and out. 19 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:04.200 Oh okay, Well hopefully hopefully it will come back and 20 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:06.920 maybe a NSA is messing with us a little bit here. 21 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:10.920 Uh well, thank you for having me on your show. 22 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:14.079 I think you've been trying to pull arms and legs 23 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:16.799 off my body to get me to appear on your 24 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:19.519 show for quite a long time. And I'm happy to 25 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:20.200 be here today. 26 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:24.959 I am so excited to be here. We've we've spoken 27 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:27.239 in person a couple of times. I think last time 28 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.480 I saw you might be might have been the Soul Foundation. 29 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.560 Does that sound familiar? I think that was. 30 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.519 I think that was That was probably it. So if 31 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:40.560 for some reason my audio cuts out, just ask me 32 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.159 to repeat. I don't know why it is, but you know, 33 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:47.000 I'm a one man's show. This is this is sort 34 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:50.280 of like cable access TV on steroids, So who who 35 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:54.040 knows what? What is? What is going to happen? So, 36 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:55.439 so I want to jump right into it. 37 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:56.040 Uh. 38 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:56.719 I am a. 39 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:01.159 Huge fan of skin Walker, the Legend, Skinwalker Ranch, whatever 40 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:03.000 whatever the full name. 41 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:03.920 Is of the show. 42 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:08.439 And so you were part of NED this is Rocker Ranch. 43 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:11.479 Yes, there you go? Okay, So, okay, so you were 44 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:12.159 part of NIDS. 45 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:17.400 This is billionaire Robert Bigelow's private science institute, and you 46 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:20.439 were what the astro physics research director? 47 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:21.280 Am I right in that? 48 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:25.960 I was the astrophysics and aerospace physics director. 49 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:32.759 Okay and okay, So so this ranch was under Robert 50 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:38.199 Bigelow before before it came under Brandon Brandon Fugel. So 51 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:41.919 you were you ever personally on the ranch, as I 52 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:44.560 understand it, you were, is that right? 53 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:48.879 For five of the six years I worked for NIDS. Yeah, 54 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:51.479 I was on the ranch between one and two weeks 55 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.759 out of every month, but by myself. I'd be with 56 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.080 two of my co workers or one of my co workers, 57 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:02.039 and then sometimes they would get swapped out from with 58 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:09.879 one of Bob's contract investigators who was always on retainer 59 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.960 to him. And then other times I'd be off the 60 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:18.560 ranch for a period of time on vacation or be cycling, 61 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:21.240 you know, letting somebody else take to take a trip 62 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.240 cycle so I could stay home and and stay in 63 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:26.719 my office and actually get work done. 64 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.960 So your time on the ranch, what did you personally 65 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.840 witness or investigate on that ranch that was anomalous? I mean, 66 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:38.879 obviously you investigated a lot of stuff, but stuff that 67 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:40.800 you personally encountered. 68 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.919 A craft. On the first night that we were there 69 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:48.840 for the very first time, Bob Bigelow took us out there. 70 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:55.360 Then in November, so that was September of nineteen ninety 71 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:59.000 six and November of ninety six, Colin Kelliher and I 72 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.479 were out on the back of the double whe manufactured 73 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:05.439 home that he had installed next to the Sherman house 74 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:09.000 and the Shermans were still living in it. We saw 75 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:12.080 another craft and it was similar to the one that 76 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:19.920 we saw in September in color, size, dimensions, and it 77 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.279 was different in that in September it had vertically landed 78 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:30.439 or descended down from the sky, landed roughly half a 79 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:32.600 mile to a quarter of a mile away from where 80 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:37.279 we were. The light went out, the craft was lit, 81 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.399 and its light went out, and then for thirty minutes 82 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.240 we couldn't see any other movement or action. And then 83 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.519 at the end of that thirty minute period the light 84 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:51.920 returned on the ground level, but it was displaced to 85 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:55.560 my left quite a distance, so somehow it had moved 86 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.120 horizontally in a thirty minute period. And then it went 87 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:00.720 out and it was gone forever. We went out there 88 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.360 the next day and couldn't find a trace of anything. 89 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:08.079 We scoured that whole property between where the house was 90 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.560 all the way to the far west fence line adjoining 91 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:18.120 the next door neighbor, and we went from I think 92 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:21.920 we were from north to south. Yeah, So we went 93 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:25.759 north to south and couldn't find anything. And then the 94 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.959 one in November was a flyover. So Colin kell Her 95 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.120 and I are out maink at about two thirty three 96 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:36.199 am in the morning and it's cold, and here comes 97 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:40.639 that very same type of craft flying over the Mesa 98 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.959 or the bluff is as we called it. And it 99 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.959 made a straight bee line right over the pasture about 100 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:50.000 the centroid of the pasture, and then it made a 101 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:54.680 perfect ninety degree turn toward our direction where our where 102 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.160 the house was located with respect to where it made 103 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.360 its turn, and it kept going straight and till it 104 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:05.600 disappeared from you, and it would have been traveling east 105 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:11.959 and so yeah, and so it was really it went 106 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.480 north to south and then traveltyes. So it was very 107 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.480 very interesting. No noise, no nothing, no aircraft lights. It 108 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:23.319 was all dark amber light, very large. 109 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.160 So was this an orb Was there a physical structure too? 110 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:31.360 Well, we couldn't see because the light was very bright, 111 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.399 but it was obviously a solid object. You couldn't see 112 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:39.199 through it. But the light was an amber colored, very bright, 113 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:45.920 very intense. I don't think we could make out any 114 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:50.000 structure other than you couldn't see through. It was very opaque, 115 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:54.639 and I don't think we would want to call it 116 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:57.279 an orb because the orbs that were known on the ranch, 117 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:01.120 which we are salt later saw the following year year 118 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.360 and a half were small. They were probably human head 119 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:13.040 size or basketball size. Nothing bigger, nothing smaller. And those 120 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.319 orbs that have been seen on the ranch by the 121 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:20.240 Sherman family and by us were consistently basketball to human 122 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.560 head size, Okay, okay, And they never flew up in 123 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:27.480 the sky. They were always at human height, you know, 124 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:31.639 above the ground level, maybe no more than six feet 125 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:35.120 above the ground at the best. This thing that I 126 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:40.759 reported from September November was much larger and was up 127 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:44.759 in the sky. Now, I don't recall when it first 128 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:47.759 made its appearance on its vertical descent to the ground 129 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.199 on the far west side of the ranch in September 130 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:55.920 of ninety six and the similar one that flew over 131 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:01.839 the ranch in November nineteen ninety six. But in the 132 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.839 November case, that thing was not like a satellite up 133 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:12.279 in orbit or a star. This thing was I would 134 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:15.160 estimate about five hundred feet above ground level. That's how 135 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:15.879 low it was. 136 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:19.800 Okay, Okay. So this this thing was big, and I'm 137 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:24.519 curious your opinion. You wrote the Air Force's Teleportation Study 138 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.480 as the Teleworking. 139 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:32.200 Teleportation Physics Study. Yeah, and that included using a solution 140 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:38.360 of Einstein's general theory's relativity to find a equivalent for 141 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:42.279 a traversible wormhole that would resemble the stargate like in 142 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:47.320 the k. Kurt Russell movie and the television series. And 143 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:49.320 I forget the name of the actor who was leading 144 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.799 the series. I never got it. Because of work schedules 145 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:53.720 and other family things. I never got to be able 146 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:57.360 to see that show. I'm always busy writing Air Force 147 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.519 reports or at that time I was working full time 148 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:04.639 it needs so I never did get to see the show. 149 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:09.360 But I did get to see occasional parts of the episode, 150 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.240 so I'm familiar with the show. It's based on the movie, 151 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.320 which is phenomenal. Yeah. So this is a flat This 152 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:18.960 is called the flat face traversible wormhole, and that it's 153 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.840 not phispherically, it does not have a spherical geometry like 154 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:29.519 the first traversible wormhole solution to the Einstein equations that 155 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:35.679 Kip Thorn and Michael Morris had derived back in nineteen 156 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.639 eighty five, and they worked three years to do the 157 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:44.279 mathematical development of that solution to find out its implications, 158 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:48.440 its applications, and then they published their first paper in 159 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.399 the American journal Physics in nineteen eighty eight and simultaneously 160 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.080 a paper in phyz read D Physical Review D I 161 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:00.000 think it was, and that one was about using wormholes 162 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:04.080 time machines. And so this is this is not the 163 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:09.559 spherically symmetric wormhole throat. This is a flat wormhole throat 164 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.879 like a doorway. You stepped through it, and you come out, 165 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:13.759 you go out the other side, but when you go 166 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:16.320 out the other side, you're light years away from where 167 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:19.000 you stepped into it at you know your departure point. 168 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:22.919 So it comes to the snuggate. 169 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:27.679 Okay, sure, So in your opinion, do you think there's 170 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:31.120 a wormhole at Skinwalker Ranch or do you think there's 171 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:32.840 a craft buried underneath? 172 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:34.720 What do you think that is? 173 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:40.159 The wormhole phenomenon had been seen at Skinwalker Ranch by 174 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.639 Terry Sherman. I don't recall now, it's been so fricking 175 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.720 long ago. It's already been thirty years this month next 176 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:51.720 month actually actually beat thirty years next month when Bob 177 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.240 Bigelow and I sat in his big office suite at 178 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.759 Park house on Southeastern Avenue in Las Vegas, and we 179 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:03.679 had a speaker phone call with Terry Sherman where Bob 180 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:10.360 had kind of like an overarching discussion with Terry his family, 181 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:13.639 his and his family's history with the phenomenon on the ranch, 182 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.759 which finally led at the end of the conversation a 183 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.879 discussion about Bob buying the ranch for a new And 184 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:25.559 I had been hired before Colin kellerher and George Arnette 185 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.720 were hired just the month before that, so all three 186 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.519 of us, actually all three of us got got hired 187 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.639 in the month of July, but I was the first hired. 188 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.960 They came on board about roughly two weeks later, and 189 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.679 then in August, Bob Bigelow and I are having on 190 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:44.279 the speakerphone Terry Sherman about all what was going on. 191 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:50.000 Bob was made to wear the ranch by his field 192 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:55.919 investigator on retainer, Shelley Wadsworth up in Pilch, Nevada, and 193 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:00.600 she's very close to the Utah border, and so she 194 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:03.279 sees the newspapers coming out of Salt Lake City, like 195 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:06.799 the Deseret News. And Zach van Nick is one of 196 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:08.919 the reporters of the Deseret News that picked up the 197 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:14.039 story about the Sherman's terrible experiences on that ranch, and 198 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:17.759 so Shelley brought that to Bob's attention, faxed him copies 199 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.799 of the newspaper articles. One thing led to another. That's 200 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.159 how Bob got connected up to Terry Sherman was through 201 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:26.919 Zach van Nick and Shelley Widsboro. 202 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.480 One of the things that really blew me away when 203 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:35.039 I read skin Walkers at the Pentagon was this whole 204 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:40.080 concept of a hitchhiker effect, this thing where people would 205 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:45.080 experience things at the ranch as part of this investigative effort, 206 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:47.720 and then they would go all the way to the 207 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:50.639 east coast to their home in Virginia and they would 208 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.879 have bad things sort of happen. Did you ever experience 209 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:57.679 anything yourself as far as the hits hiker effect? 210 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:03.559 Oh? Yeah, yeah. It made its appearance known in my 211 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.360 house in Las Vegas. I lived in a small enclave 212 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.799 of southeast Las Vegas, which was still in the county. 213 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.679 It was not incorporated into the city of Las Vegas. 214 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.240 So we were on East Tropicana Road in Mountain Vista, 215 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:21.799 in that neighborhood there, and yep, that phenomenon made its 216 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:24.919 way into our house and created some havoc. And I've 217 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:29.440 got three kids and two girls in elementary school, and 218 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.679 my son was just a little tight not old enough 219 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:34.919 to go to school. And then my wife is at home. 220 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.480 She did have a job that was at home when 221 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:42.879 she needed to be. So anyway, yes, the phenomenon in 222 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.159 the old and Golden days, we didn't call that hitchhiker phenomenon. 223 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:49.639 That's traditionally called Poldergeist phenomenon as in the movie, and 224 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.639 the movie didn't invent that name. That's a technical name 225 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.720 that was invented by research psychologists who looked into paranormal phenomenon. 226 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.639 Paranormal was the word that Travis Taylor hates because because 227 00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:08.120 he said, there's always a physics explanation for things, of course, 228 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:11.200 and so paranormal is a terrible label, and it's like, well, 229 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:14.919 I I I agree with that thinking, but unfortunately we 230 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.679 are humans and we attach convenient metaphorical labels to things 231 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:25.039 like idiot over there or paranormal for you know, ghost 232 00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:31.200 story apparitions, uh so, uh psycho uh so, polder Geist 233 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:39.080 was the YEP. And then little to my knowledge or 234 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.960 little actually unknown to me apparently that follows uh. Colin 235 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:48.120 Keller her home and affected his family because uh, and 236 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:50.360 I was not and I didn't know about it because 237 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.600 he didn't confide in any of us about it. He 238 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:56.919 might have confided to Bob Bigelow, but I'm not aware 239 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:59.480 that he did, because even Bob Bigelow didn't report that 240 00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:04.360 back to me or Georgiannette. Georgiannette also didn't confide to 241 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.039 me to say anything about whether it affected him. Now 242 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:11.919 he was married and his daughters were grown and lived 243 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:18.279 in different states. His wife was still living in Sioue Falls, Iowa. 244 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.559 I think it is is that right, Sue Falls, Iowa, 245 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:24.679 and she was working there, and she was not living 246 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:27.639 with him in the apartment. The permanent home was in 247 00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:30.720 Sue Falls, and he just was running an apartment in 248 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:34.200 Las Vegas while he was working for NIWS. So I 249 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:38.039 don't know whether the poltergeist phenomenon or slash hitchhiker phenomenon 250 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:42.000 followed him home as well. He didn't say anything about it. 251 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:47.559 I can't speak for John Alexander. John had only been 252 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:52.639 to the ranch one time that I recall. That's not 253 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:55.240 enough for the poltergeist to latch onto you. And I 254 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.440 think you need to make a repeated presence out there. 255 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:02.240 Bob Bigelow did not repeated presences or trips out there, 256 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:06.320 I should say, very very often. Early in the days 257 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:08.679 after he bought the ranch, he ause he'd be out 258 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:14.759 there about twice in September, twice in October, once in November. 259 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:16.960 And then after that it just dropped off. We just 260 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:23.120 didn't see him after ranch anymore. And so but let 261 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.320 me let me fast forward to the future. So in 262 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.399 the future we now have the ranches out of the 263 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:32.240 neds is out of business, and big older ail space 264 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:37.679 has emerged as Bob's number one business next to the 265 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:42.200 budget Suites of America and big a little ailspace. He 266 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:50.240 then decides to he had after the Shermans moved to 267 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:56.600 the Northwest Pacific. Northwest, Gene and Richard Diets were nearby 268 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:01.480 property owners not far from where skin Wall ranches, and 269 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:05.559 they retired. Richard worked for Chevron, I believe he was 270 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:11.440 an oil company man, and he retired, and uh, we 271 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:16.799 had encountered with them because they thought that there they 272 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:21.000 raised they had ostrich form. They raised ostriches on a farm. 273 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.200 One of the ostriches got attacked and they thought that 274 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.759 was a mutilation attempt so we got called about it investigated, 275 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:30.559 and that's how we met Gene and Richard Deets and 276 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.759 turned out that see Georgio Neette is a world renowned 277 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:44.359 Romanian bovine and avian disease pathologist, microbiologist and veterinarian. He's 278 00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.160 a he has a he's a DVM and a pH d, 279 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.359 and he's got tons of books and pay review journal 280 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:56.519 paper published in the veterinary medicine arena. And so he 281 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.480 took a look at the ostriches leg and said, this 282 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:04.359 is clearly a big cat attack. Big cat can mean 283 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:08.319 Bob cat. We never saw mountain lions around the ranch. 284 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.039 Terry Sherman never did either, but he said they were 285 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.759 out there. Some of them would cross that bad lands 286 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:17.200 where the ranch is located in and make its way 287 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.920 make its way in. So they always worried about mountain lions, 288 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:25.039 but normally they were the smaller size big cats, and 289 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.960 that's what that's what had attacked the oster. So the 290 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.880 point is is after Richard retired Bob Big and the 291 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.000 Sherman's left, Bob needed somebody as caretakers on the ranch 292 00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.680 twenty four to seven to keep an eye out on 293 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:43.079 things and report on any unusual phenomena and uh. And 294 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:47.400 so he recruited Richard and Gene to move into the 295 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.559 Sherman Home where they would live in retirement. And fast 296 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.799 forward to that period. That's when Big Louros Space started 297 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.799 deploying rotating teams of security guys to work on the ranch. 298 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:05.279 They were given instrumentation by Colin Kellerher. I think he 299 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.039 trained them in how to use the equipment and train 300 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:12.000 them on how to record the data. And like us 301 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.799 back at HISS, they would have to write it down 302 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.279 on paper and facts it to Bob Bigelow every night 303 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.279 or to call him every night. So that's what was 304 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:25.119 going on back in those days. So I don't know 305 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.359 what I can get at is I know that the 306 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:37.559 hitchhiker phenomenon affected at least two or three of the 307 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.680 security officers. I don't know that it affected all of them, 308 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.960 because I don't know how many of them were in 309 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:46.400 the rotation lineup, or whether it was always the same 310 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:50.240 one guy, the same two guys, same three guys, or 311 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.000 maybe they rotated a combination of those guys with a 312 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:57.079 different group of security officers. I don't know. I didn't 313 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:00.160 get into the weeds of that so I do the 314 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:05.480 hitchhiker phenomenon finally affected Bob Bigelow and sell because he yeah, 315 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.240 he's out at the ranch a lot more during the 316 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:13.960 ASP and he's escorting Senator Harry Reid and Jay Stratton 317 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:17.400 and Jim Lekatsky and other people whose names don't want 318 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:23.039 they don't want publicized from the intelligence community, military intelligence. Actually, 319 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.920 and they had been on the ranch, and they and yes, 320 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:29.519 they had been on the ranch just one freaking time. 321 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.799 And they had the misfortune of poltergeist following them their 322 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:38.119 homes in Virginia and terrible things happen to them. And 323 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.000 that's more than two that's more than two or three people, 324 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.279 I think it is. And then they also it also 325 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.599 finally followed Bob Bigelow home and it really upset the 326 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:49.880 balance of his family life. So and I can't guess 327 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.039 what they were going through, but I've heard tidbits of it. 328 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.519 Well, Hey, Brandon Fugel, if you're watching, I would come 329 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.640 to your ranch, but only for a day. That sounds 330 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:00.759 like that's that's the end sarance policy. 331 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:01.839 You want to circle back. 332 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.920 I want to circle back to the cattle mutilations because 333 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.519 I know you guys study that is as part of NIDS, 334 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.000 what was what did? What did you determine what was 335 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.839 going on? Or or your personal opinion as to what 336 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:15.440 is going on? If you can't, you know, sort of 337 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.400 you know, talk about the official determination. 338 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:24.200 Right. Well, Big Aero Space was emerging. Then I played 339 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:26.559 a role in helping Bob Bigelow stand up that company 340 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:28.960 by defining what sort of company it was going to be. 341 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:32.559 Bob made it clear he wanted space hotel, so I 342 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.720 put him into contact with the leading space hotel thinkers 343 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:43.680 and from there it went uh so, oh gosh, I 344 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:47.920 lost the question, smil Can so repeat your question? 345 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.920 Yeah, so what is your opinion as far as what 346 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.200 is behind the whole cattle mutilation phenomenon, as far as 347 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:55.480 what you. 348 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:58.640 Got to know? Why? I forgot that? Yeah, it's okay. So, 349 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:02.079 so I lost my job because of the rise of 350 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.480 Bigelo Aerospace. A lot of us did. Bob Bigelow started 351 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:08.279 laying off staff in two thousand and one and then 352 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:11.359 in two thousand and two, and that's when I lost 353 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:15.359 my job. With John Alexander and the second ranch manager. 354 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.839 On a second, I'll skip that. It's Pete Pickup, who 355 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.319 was on the staff in Utah at the ranch, but 356 00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:24.680 he didn't live on the ranch. This is before Gene 357 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:30.000 and Richard started living on the ranch, and Pete followed 358 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.960 Terry Sherman. Actually, so there's terryt the Shermans, then Pete 359 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:40.079 pickup and then the deets is okay. So in two 360 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.960 thousand and two, after I got permanently furloughed along with 361 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:50.799 several others, I wasn't that connected up anymore, and I 362 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.920 don't know what was particularly going on, but Colin Keller hurt. 363 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:59.720 We'll see George Ohnette unfortunately got had his position laid 364 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:04.960 off eliminated January two thousand and one, and so we 365 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.880 had no more veterinarian. So some time after I got 366 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:13.960 laid off, Colin Kelleher continued his investigations into cattle mutilations. 367 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:18.559 He got in contact with experts that had some connection 368 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.160 to this at Los Alamos National Laboratory, and he wrote 369 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:27.960 a book about it, brain Trust. And to my surprise, 370 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.480 because I wasn't involved in the milu of all that, 371 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.079 since I'm no longer on the staff and I was 372 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.759 at the time working as a principal investigator under contract 373 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.680 to the Air Force Research Lab Advanced Concepts office at 374 00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:43.279 Edward's Air Force Base. But I'm still living in Vegas. 375 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.880 I just traveled to Edwards about once or twice a 376 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:49.039 month to give briefings and have meetings with my program 377 00:23:49.079 --> 00:23:52.279 manager there. So anyway, Colin came to the conclusion from 378 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:57.559 all of his research on cattle mutilations that followed George's 379 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.480 termination and my termination, and came to the conclusion that 380 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:12.880 he found a poorly designed horror protocols anti livestock weapon 381 00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:18.440 testing operation or program that involved cattle. And this is 382 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.680 what they did during the Cold War. This is circa 383 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.559 like nineteen sixty sixty one thereabouts, or maybe the late fifties, 384 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.960 but it was in the period of late fifties early sixties, 385 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.119 just by a spread of maybe three or four years. 386 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:35.440 And what happened is the biological warfare guys came up 387 00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:38.400 with the virus that was not meant to kill cattle. 388 00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.799 It was meant to infect them because they need to 389 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.000 see if they can come up with the very intense vector, 390 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:51.519 a viral vector that can infect animals rapidly, highly infectious. 391 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:54.319 And they did not make it lethal or make the 392 00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:59.240 cattle sick, even by mild standards. So the idea was 393 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.160 to find out it's affectiveness. Can we shoot this thing 394 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:06.599 at the Soviet Union, at their cattle ranches and farm 395 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.000 their livestock ranches, I should say, and take out their 396 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:16.200 primary food source by a highly infectious lethal livestock virus. 397 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.960 So this was the precursor to that done by the 398 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:25.400 United States government government, probably Department of Agriculture and Fort 399 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.799 Dietrich were entwined into that one. What he found out 400 00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.799 is that is that the protocols were terrible. The cattle 401 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:38.839 were not contained. I think I haven't read Collins book 402 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:42.599 in twenty some years, so I'd forgotten the details. But 403 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:46.920 I think the cattle were mixed with cattle from private 404 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.599 ranches that were allowed to graze on the same federal property, 405 00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.920 because a lot of ranchers grazed their cattle on federal 406 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:59.039 properties that are life that are open for licensed grazing use. 407 00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:02.920 So you can pay a fee, get a license and 408 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.960 graze your cattle, you know, your livestock, horses, cattle, goats, 409 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.759 and sheep and whatever. So the brus got transmitted from 410 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:14.880 the government cattles to the private cattles and then it 411 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:20.759 made its wildfire entrance into the US beef supply. H 412 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:27.960 and Colins thesis is that the mutilations are a result 413 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:32.200 of a need to do random, sporadic, not frequent, but 414 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:38.240 sporadic killing and sampling of selected cattle across the United 415 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:40.599 States at big ranches where there are a lot of cattle, 416 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:43.759 and it can be done covertly and quietly by a 417 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:49.200 contractor company that can has access to unmarked US Army 418 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:54.960 Special Forces helicopters, and they'll fly over day or night, 419 00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:58.079 actually not in the middle of the night. They'll fly 420 00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.759 in day or night. Nobody's around is at least from 421 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:03.519 what they could see up in the air, but probably 422 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.039 have ground guys, you know, driving around keeping an eye 423 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.960 on people and automobile traffic. So once the coast is clear, 424 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.839 they land, they sit et a cattle, a cow or 425 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:19.319 a bull, and they mutilated. What they're doing is they're 426 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:24.240 taking tissues. The soft tissues are the places that are 427 00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:27.799 well known in the cattle industry, especially among veterinarians like 428 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:32.519 Georgia Ornette. They are the parts of the body that 429 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:39.279 accumulate viral diseases and bacterial parasites the most compared to 430 00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:42.160 the rest of the body, and that would be the eyes, 431 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.680 the ears, the lips, the utters, the rectum, and I 432 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:51.279 think that's about it. So generles. So those are the 433 00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:56.119 parts that always get mutilated. There might be some stragglers 434 00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.279 where they get something in the side where the ribs are, 435 00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:03.759 but but that's not where the disease accumulates. Viral and 436 00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:07.240 bacterial diseases accumulate the most in those soft tissues, and 437 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.799 that's why they were always mutilated. So that's Column's thesis, 438 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:13.000 is that this is a group that he found out 439 00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:17.279 about from contacts at Los Alamos. I don't recall if 440 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:21.880 he named them in the book, he might have been 441 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.920 able to. I'd have to go back and look at 442 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:26.559 my book to refresh my memory on it. But that 443 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:30.400 was the answer, and so for all intensive And we 444 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:37.200 also had one more piece of evidence from retired Cascade 445 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:45.480 Cascade County, Montana Sheriff's Department Captain Keith Wolverton, who investigated 446 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:51.799 waves of cattle mutilations, UFO flyovers over the northern Tier, 447 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:57.599 sack ICBM silos in Cascade County and surrounding counties, and 448 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:01.279 bigfoot sightings all kind of well, I'm done to one 449 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:09.119 geographical region in uh Montana. And so his deputies in 450 00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:11.680 the desk would take you know, they would write police 451 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.799 blodders of all called in reports from angry cattle ranchers 452 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:21.160 or upset air force, security police officers and whatnot, or 453 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:25.720 farmers who see a bigfoot running acrosser their property not 454 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.799 far from the front porch or back porch. Anyway, So 455 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:32.440 he he documented this for several years, wrote a book 456 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:36.119 about it, Mystery Stocks the Prairie. The book is long 457 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.000 out of print, but it looks like it's available on 458 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:41.720 Amazon for a hefty price. And he documented it. So 459 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:46.759 he produced a very big case file of all of 460 00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:51.359 that they found. Yeah, they found hard evidence that the 461 00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.519 cattle that one mutilated were drugged just like I said, 462 00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.359 but they but I thought they'd be drugged with the sedative. 463 00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:01.079 I'm probably putting the word sedative in Colum Killer's mouth. 464 00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:03.880 They might have been drug differently, but I would have 465 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.319 done a sedative, and I think George Andnett would agree 466 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:11.160 with me. So anyway, we found amphetamine speed in their blood, 467 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:16.039 in their body. We found the tinfoil that was used 468 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:22.759 to contain and carry wrap. You wrap it up and 469 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.680 you've got powdered speed and an amphetamine, and that would 470 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.880 be mixed in solution and put into a big cattle syringe. 471 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.000 We also found where they drained the blood out, they 472 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.359 used the equivalent you know, when you get a blood draw, 473 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.920 they use a phlebotomist to forebotomis use the big needle 474 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.279 that goes into your vein near the near the bend 475 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.839 of your elbow. Well, they do similar with cattle, only 476 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.200 it's not on their legs, it's up in somewhere in 477 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.480 their body where they get draw blood from. But they 478 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:57.000 have a much bigger needle. It's ugly, scary looking. So 479 00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:00.880 they found needles like that. They found foils were tainted 480 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:05.640 with amphetamine, and not just at one location, not just 481 00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:12.920 in Montana, but there were locations or ranch areas in Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, Colorado, 482 00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:18.359 probably also New Mexico and so forth where they were 483 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:23.160 the similar things were a drug. A blood pathology panel 484 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.079 was run on what blood was left in the cattle, 485 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.480 and they found drugs in its system, narcotics the type 486 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:35.359 that humans use. So it's like, what the hell are 487 00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:38.160 the aliens doing with speed, you know? And so that's 488 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.279 what the answer is. It wasn't aliens. It was covert 489 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:49.200 clandestine government contractors, probably bio warfare contractors conducting this. And 490 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:53.720 unfortunately Linda Howe had gotten all that confused with the 491 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.480 UFO explanation on the basis of one uncorroborated case where 492 00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.039 only one person. She might say differently, but I read 493 00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.799 her books, I've talked to her many times in person. 494 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.880 It's always comes down to one witness that was never corroborated, 495 00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:13.400 who saw UFO at the site of cattle mutilation on 496 00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:18.680 her ranch, but were some of the aspects of the 497 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.960 story don't hold, and the story changes a little bit 498 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:26.119 when you talk to that witness over time. So I'm 499 00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:28.279 less inclined to believe that on the basis of one 500 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:34.920 case versus dozens and dozens of cattle mutilation cases were 501 00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.920 where law enforcement and veterinarians who did on site neck 502 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:45.240 cropsies and ran histologies on the animals had found human 503 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.119 narcotics of high concentration or high doses i should say, 504 00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:53.400 in the animals, along with evidence that the narcotics were there, 505 00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:58.160 like in the Cascade County case. So Keith Wilverton fast 506 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:02.640 forward to the early two thousands before I'm axed at 507 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:08.920 NIDS and he arrives at NIDS and says, hey, I'd 508 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.000 like to meet with you guys. And we already knew 509 00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.799 about him because we had talked to him on the phone. 510 00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:14.559 I think that would be Colin Kellerher had talked to 511 00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:18.160 him on the phone. Maybe even George No Georgia Nette 512 00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.200 got acced in two thousand and one, bed as possible. 513 00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.720 He talked to Keith Wolverton in two thousand. I just 514 00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:28.799 don't recall that level of my minutia. So Keith showed 515 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:31.920 up and he said, I have retired and I'm looking 516 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:36.400 at a snowbird retirement home here in Vegas. He's still 517 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.480 living in a Montana near Billings, and when the weather 518 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:41.720 gets cold there he wants to come to Vegas for 519 00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:45.720 the warmer winners. And he brought with him this really 520 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.400 big three ring notebook binder, and it is chock full 521 00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:55.920 of all of his UFO Bigfoot and cattle mutilation cases, 522 00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:02.000 including the sealed power is that contained that big veterinary, 523 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:09.000 that bonvine phlebotomy needle, and the tinfoil that the speed 524 00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:16.559 was stored and carried in and so we have the evidence. 525 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.800 So he said, you know, this stuff had reached its 526 00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:26.280 seventeen year maximum life span. For storage according to county regulations, 527 00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:28.480 and they were due to be pulled out of the 528 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.639 vault and destroyed because there's a seventeen year life span 529 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:36.639 for everything that stored in their archival vault for the 530 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:41.280 Cascade County Sheriff's Department. So he's already retired. He remembered 531 00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:44.320 that he had all that evidence there and all those reports, 532 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:49.880 all those extensive reports of interviews with UFO witnesses, Air 533 00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:54.480 Force security police, cattle ranchers with mutilations, and cattle ranchers 534 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.960 and farmers who saw bigfoot, and he got all that 535 00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.440 in there, and so he went back and he remembered 536 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:02.880 all that. He kept in contact with the people in 537 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.199 the Sheriff's Department administrative office, and I think they were 538 00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:09.559 communicating routinely, and that I think he got word that, hey, 539 00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:12.360 your stuff is going to be destroyed pretty soon, because 540 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:15.960 it's coming up on seventeen years since you entered all 541 00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:19.400 that into the records or into storage. And so he 542 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.599 went and he got permission from the Sheriff's department to 543 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.320 remove that big three ring notebook binder containing all his 544 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.960 case files and to keep them because they're going to 545 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:33.239 be destroyed. And as far as they're concerned, there's no 546 00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:36.360 problem with just giving it away to a former captain 547 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.519 of the department. Big deal. He wrote the book back 548 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:41.760 in the mid seventies, and they don't have trouble. So 549 00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.760 he brings it to us, and he gives it to us. 550 00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.360 We got it for keeps and I went through that 551 00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:51.480 and did a statistical pattern analysis on every one of 552 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:53.800 those cases. I did a pattern analysis on all the 553 00:35:53.800 --> 00:36:00.760 bigfoot cases, the icbm UFO encountercases, and the cattlelation cases. 554 00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.000 It was really interesting to see the pattern and I 555 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.719 made bar charge the graphs of all that, and we 556 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:10.960 presented that at the NID Science Advisory Board. So the 557 00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:16.000 sum total of columns work getting information from Osalamos, plus 558 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:21.840 what we did at NIDS before George left NDS unceremoniously unfortunately, 559 00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:26.280 and Keith Wolverton's evidence and all the other and like 560 00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:28.480 I said, the sum total of the NIDS evidence includes 561 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:32.519 not just mutilations in Utah, but the mutilations and other 562 00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:35.079 states that we were able to go to or collect 563 00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.119 data from veterinarians and law enforcement in those states that 564 00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.719 they were willing to share with us. So that's what 565 00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:43.159 it looks like at and made mutilations. 566 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:46.000 Okay, well, at least we know that the government treats 567 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:47.440 animals ethically. 568 00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:48.880 So I'm really glad to hear that. 569 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:51.880 So, by the way, I want to tell you something. 570 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:54.320 There's something you should know. The people are going to say, Hey, 571 00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.800 wait a minute, isn't the government contractor committing a felony 572 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:01.400 by killing a two thousand and pound cow or bull? 573 00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:03.679 And you know they could be taken to the market 574 00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:07.960 for auction and make big money for the rancher. And 575 00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:11.079 I would think that'd be like uh, brand theft atto 576 00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:13.760 the equivalent of brand theft auto, based on the kind 577 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:16.199 of money those ranchers can get at the auction houses 578 00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:20.559 for cattle and uh and the answer is no. So 579 00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:23.559 our former chairman of the Science Advisory Board, the founding 580 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:27.960 chairman was doctor Christopher C. Green a k A. Kit Green, 581 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.559 uh formerly of the c I A uh director of 582 00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.199 Intelligence and later General Motors and the number three man 583 00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:42.039 at General Motors. And uh so he I kind of 584 00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:48.159 got lost my point, and I'm sorry. Uh so, uh M, 585 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.000 you know when. 586 00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:56.559 I want to I want to move on, if if, 587 00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:59.320 if you don't mind. H So, you were on American 588 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:04.119 alchemy and you talked about on Corona, which is what 589 00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:08.320 people were born more commonly known as Roswell. 590 00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:14.920 Correct, it's commonly called Roswell because the news press was 591 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:18.760 given press releases from the five or ninth Bombardment Group 592 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:22.119 stationed at the Roswell Army Airfield in Roswell, New Mexico, 593 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:28.480 which is where future Apollo fourteen astronaut and Navy pilot 594 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:35.400 and astronautical engineer Edgar Mitchell lived and when he was 595 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:39.559 in high school. So the actual crash took place in Corona, 596 00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:44.000 New Mexico, on the Foster Ranch that was managed by 597 00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:48.199 Mac Brazel. And that ranch is about one hundred and 598 00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:51.039 six miles from Roswey, the city of Roswell. 599 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.159 And you're certain that you're certain that this occurred. And 600 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.559 I believe you said that there were biologics found as well. 601 00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:02.199 Correct, Okay, biologics were to vaccines. I don't know who 602 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.199 the hell started Dave Grush on this use of the 603 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:09.920 word biologics when he testified before the House Committee Oversight 604 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:13.639 Committee two years ago, three years ago. Actually, and no 605 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:21.320 biologics is using viruses and bacteria to find vaccine cures 606 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:25.320 for diseases. Viral disease vacial it should be any I 607 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:28.280 like the old fashioned word dead alien bodies. I mean, 608 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:28.599 why not? 609 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:34.280 Okay, So are you one hundred percent sure that that 610 00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.800 this this did indeed happen in your investigation and NIDS 611 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.519 and because you were looking into crash retrievals during it, 612 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:42.039 it's correct. 613 00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.599 Starting in ninety eight, yeah, and I interviewed Brigadier General 614 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:48.880 Arthur Exon, who was a lieutenant colonel at the time 615 00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:55.039 at Right Airfield. He was there in doing temporary duty 616 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.320 to work on getting his master's degree in industrial engineering, 617 00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:03.440 and he happened to know everybody at the r AAF. 618 00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:08.159 You knew Colonel Blanchard, you knew Jesse, Marcel, senior Major Marcel, 619 00:40:08.239 --> 00:40:14.320 You knew Walderhouse the I think Walderhouse was the press officer, 620 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.119 Marcel was the intelligence officer, and so forth and so on. 621 00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:21.679 So he knew these guys back in those days. He 622 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:26.519 also knew Pappy Henderson, who was a pilot in the 623 00:40:26.840 --> 00:40:31.000 Air Transportation Command and I may not have that name 624 00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:36.599 rights the Air Force Transport Command possibly, so yeah, so 625 00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:40.920 he knew him and he was right there when Pappy 626 00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:49.039 arrived with craids from from the Foster Ranch. Geologist field 627 00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:51.440 kit that didn't have the tools in it, but it 628 00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:55.800 had samples filling it filled up in it from the craft. 629 00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:58.559 Debris that was recovered from the craft. The craft was 630 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:02.320 not a one hundred debris field. It was a partial 631 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:06.000 craft with some chunks of it that splintered off into debris, 632 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.880 a hitter on Arroyo and busted up, and plus it 633 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:13.559 skidded for several hundred yards. Uh so it left debris 634 00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.800 along its skid mark until it came to arrest at 635 00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:19.280 in at Arroyo where it hit that it hit, So 636 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:21.800 you got a raft that's crumpled, broken off and all 637 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:23.760 that kind of craft. So he knew all about that. 638 00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:27.400 And and how many did you hear? 639 00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.000 Like, how many we'll call them alien bodies were on 640 00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:30.599 that craft? 641 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:31.800 And do we know what they looked like? 642 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:34.960 There were four and they were the grays, the guy 643 00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:38.320 the little four foot guys with big heads and very 644 00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:43.480 diminutive bodies. Like there's a medical word I'd want to use, 645 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:48.239 but I can't think of it. But anyway, Yeah, it's 646 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:52.800 it's consistently the grays in that case, the one at 647 00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.599 seued Atticunia, Mexico, which is on the other side of 648 00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.159 the Rio Grand from Del Rio, Texas. That was in 649 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.440 December nineteen fifty. There was a single occupant on that 650 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.760 and that was also a gray and in that craft. 651 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:11.880 And I haven't heard any other cases that had grays 652 00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:17.400 or any other type of species. It's usually been the grays. 653 00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:21.360 But I haven't been able during my work at nid's 654 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.639 my work for AFRL and my work for how put 655 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:26.840 Up where we were both at the time at which 656 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.840 we were both working for the AFS app under contract 657 00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:34.119 to bass, I could never crack that net. I could 658 00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:36.960 never crack the net of alien communication with the government 659 00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:41.400 other than my interviews with retired President George Trubert Walker 660 00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:44.360 Bush in two thousand and three and letters exchanged in 661 00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:48.559 two thousand and five. So yeah, there was alien contact, 662 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.840 but somebody's got that department and dy boy, they keep 663 00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:52.760 it hidden well. 664 00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:58.760 And I'm sorry to interrupt, but as far as I 665 00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:02.760 get your work at NID, were you ever privy and 666 00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:06.199 you probably can't even answer this, were you ever pritty 667 00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:10.119 to any classified information that would give you a clue that. 668 00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:12.760 Roswell did happen? 669 00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:21.639 Not Roswell specifically, I was given leaked classified information by 670 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:25.880 someone who was an executive administrative assistant and field security 671 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:30.119 officer for one of the legacy aerospace companies that no 672 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:32.599 longer exist. It got absorbed by one or the other 673 00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:36.519 legacy aerospace companies after two thousand or about that period 674 00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:44.239 of time. And that individual revealed that Wright Patterson Air 675 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:47.159 Force Base where they had a facility at her company 676 00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:51.800 that employed her, and they had intact craft there that 677 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:55.480 they were trying to reverse engineer, and so that I 678 00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.280 knew about that was illegal information. She shouldn't have told me, 679 00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:02.039 but I didn't have security clearances with the need to 680 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:05.840 know to get that that was leaked, and that was 681 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.880 kept very quiet until the leak of the Wilson Notes, 682 00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:13.199 in which elements of her store of that woman, that's 683 00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:18.639 a woman, that individual's story were included as context to 684 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:23.000 provide context to the Wilson Notes. It wasn't. It was 685 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:25.639 just kind of glomb down to the Wilson transcript to 686 00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:30.480 provide context to the crash retrievals, absurd security measures to 687 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:31.239 keep it hidden. 688 00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:36.639 Okay, okay, yeah, And I want to ask you a question, 689 00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:39.480 but we're going to take a quick break. But the 690 00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:43.239 question is how many alien species are there? But hold 691 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.440 that answer just going to watching the show, and you're 692 00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:50.039 not subscribed to our channel, please hit the subscribe button. 693 00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:54.159 We found out that YouTube is literally not recommending our 694 00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:59.320 show to anybody on YouTube. We had changed our sort 695 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:02.840 of channel care category to news and Politics because we 696 00:45:02.840 --> 00:45:05.760 were talking about what was going on with UAP stuff 697 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.360 in Washington, but apparently it's really fed up the algorithm 698 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:14.559 and YouTube is literally not promoting our show whatsoever. So 699 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:18.400 when you leave a comment, when you hit it sends 700 00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:23.079 signals to YouTube, and hopefully we'll help turn this thing 701 00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:25.800 a show like zero. We don't have Peter Thiel or 702 00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:30.880 anybody bankrolling or paying the studio round here in Los Angeles, which. 703 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:31.679 Is not cheap. 704 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:35.039 And if you want to help pay the bills and 705 00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:37.679 help us be able to bring you great shows and 706 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:41.519 guests today, you can find us on Patreon at www 707 00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:44.519 dot patreon dot com. Forward slash the Good Trouble Show. 708 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:48.239 The link is also in the YouTube, and also super 709 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:51.000 chats are open. You can do the whole Super Thinks thing. 710 00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:55.159 All of that goes to all that kind of stuff. 711 00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:59.519 So all right, let's get back to doctor Davis. Now 712 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:05.039 your zodiac stuff to TRW, and I understand the TRW 713 00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:09.039 was TRW was bought out by Northrop Grumman. So is 714 00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:13.199 Northrop Grumman the primary stakeholder of the UAP crash or 715 00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:15.639 crash retrieval program as far. 716 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:18.239 As you know, Nope, Uh, there's no word on that. 717 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:22.840 Chris Mellen has a friend at Northrop Grumman who was 718 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:28.400 on the merger and acquisition team that was actively engaged 719 00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:35.400 in buying TRW. And uh he told Chris. And remember 720 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.360 I'm getting this from Chris, so uh he What Chris 721 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.000 tells me is he told Chris that there was no 722 00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.440 sign of this type of program. But that doesn't mean 723 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.039 it didn't exist. What it meant is, uh, it's contract 724 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:52.719 likely had been terminated. The records that they had been 725 00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:59.960 pouring through during this acquisition period, you know, the Uh, 726 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:02.719 it's the process you do when you're buying a business 727 00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:06.360 and buying a home. But anyway, so due diligence. So 728 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:11.280 it's the due diligence by going through TRW's papers, accounting 729 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:13.559 books and all that showed that there was no revenue 730 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:18.480 being generated by any kind of program of this nature. 731 00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:21.719 And when that happens, when they don't see any kind 732 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.119 of program like that and there's nothing being generated. It's 733 00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.400 not in the books, and that means it's dead. It 734 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:32.239 had terminated and moved on. So, for all intents and purposes, 735 00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:37.800 when north or Bremen bought TRW, it did not inherit 736 00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:45.519 what was going on right Air Force Base Circa from 737 00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:53.000 the beginning TRW until some time before it got bought 738 00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:59.320 by north or Bremen, which was roughly two thousand, two 739 00:47:59.360 --> 00:47:59.840 thousand and two. 740 00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.719 Okay, I want to talk about as APP uh, and 741 00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.199 I think most of our viewers viewers here know what 742 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:08.039 as APP is, so I don't want to get into 743 00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:11.159 a you know, sort of heavy explanation of it. But 744 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.519 in your opinion, was ASAPP ever positioned out or gain 745 00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:18.679 access to older legacy crash retrieval information? 746 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.760 Okay, you'll have to ask ask the question again the 747 00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:24.320 first part of your question. You have a sound problem 748 00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:24.920 going again. 749 00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:29.440 Oh so sorry, it's probably Ronald Moultrie jam in my 750 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:33.360 jam and my microphone here. Was was ASAP in your 751 00:48:33.400 --> 00:48:38.599 opinion ever positioned to locate flesh out or gain access 752 00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.400 to older legacy crash retrieval information. 753 00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:44.840 No, because we did not have an SAP clearance. And 754 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:48.800 specifically what we found out is that has that is 755 00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:54.079 UH the clearances waved Unacknowledged Special Access Program, which is 756 00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:57.800 the higher category of SAP, and it goes beyond the 757 00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.159 classification that we had. The app itself was cleared at 758 00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:07.000 TS SCI level Sensitive Departmentalized Information Level TS means top 759 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.039 secret for those of you who don't know that. So 760 00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:12.719 that was it, so help put off an eye. Were 761 00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:15.679 deputized by Jim mccatsky at the d i A Defense 762 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:19.480 Warning Office three and we both got letters that were 763 00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:22.239 introductory letters we could give to people in the government 764 00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:27.039 or in the industry that identified us, said that we 765 00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:32.039 were official representatives of the DA and that our identification 766 00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:36.519 cards would show our security clearances. And that identification card 767 00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:39.239 was our courier card. That's the card that's issue to 768 00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:45.400 people that legally are allowed to courier classified information from 769 00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:49.239 one place to another place safely and securely. So we 770 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:53.400 had courier cards, and our courier cards were valid worldwide. 771 00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:59.679 We had worldwide access. So no, we we did. I'm 772 00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:01.400 not going to get it in a long story because 773 00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:07.239 it was only incidental to this question. We did find 774 00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:12.719 out from our affiliation with one of the companies in 775 00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:17.960 California that the senior vice president of that company had 776 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:22.239 been a young engineer who got hired in nineteen seventy 777 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:24.400 at right out of graduate school with his doctorate and 778 00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:27.880 material science, and a friend of his was also hired 779 00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:30.320 at right out of graduate school at the same time 780 00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:34.440 with a PhD in mathematics. They both got hired by 781 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:37.960 the program manager for the crash retrieval program at that company, 782 00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.920 and they worked together with the team of three or 783 00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:44.639 four others. The leader, the leader of that group that 784 00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:46.440 did the hiring, he was the third one, so that 785 00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:48.519 I think there were still three other guys or two 786 00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:52.360 other guys, and so they were under contract to the 787 00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:58.400 Central Intelligence Agency to do crash retrievals. They'd actually they 788 00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:01.440 were if there was anything in the desert of Nevada 789 00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:05.639 or California, they'd literally go out themselves and retrieve stuff. 790 00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:08.880 But ninety nine percent of it was just space junk, 791 00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:11.519 and the other one percent of it was, as I 792 00:51:11.559 --> 00:51:17.360 was told by that senior VP, very interesting and and 793 00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:21.079 it goes into the and he elaborated to Hall put Off, 794 00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:25.760 and I'm further what that one percent very interesting stuff 795 00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:30.159 that they recovered was falls into the category of UAP craft. 796 00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:34.400 But there was other UAP craft components that were sent 797 00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:38.440 to them by the CIA. So they got they got 798 00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:44.360 stuff from the government customer, the CIA, and it wasn't Yeah, 799 00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:46.679 it wasn't all. And they were not a bona fide 800 00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:50.360 a recovery team. It's just because of the convenience of 801 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.760 their location in California and the location of where the 802 00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:56.960 CIA told them to go hunt for the stuff. 803 00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:00.440 Okay, And I want to want to kind of dig 804 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:03.039 a little bit deeper into that. So, so your tasking 805 00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:08.440 was to hunt down a letter on DA stationery. Harry 806 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:12.320 Reid tried to get you the clue. And by your 807 00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.079 own account, jimly knew about the program when he sent 808 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:22.400 you huntings. You were being fed the wrong information by Lakatski. 809 00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:26.480 And do you think Lakotski had actually been read into 810 00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:27.159 the program? 811 00:52:27.400 --> 00:52:31.119 Okay. So Lakotski's published books and then he's made public 812 00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:35.039 statements in a YouTube interview video with Jeremy Corbel and 813 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.360 George Now. Okay, So I didn't have a lot of 814 00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:44.320 contact with Lakotski, but briefly every now and then. It 815 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:48.920 wasn't routine because I'm one of the sciences. I am 816 00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:51.719 one of the two science advisors. How was the chief 817 00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:56.719 science advisor because he owned her Tech International, Incorporated and 818 00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.159 was also he was the president's CEO, and he was 819 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:03.599 also the director of the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin, 820 00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:06.960 which is the think tank for ar tech. It's our 821 00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:09.599 text think tank. So they had a cop so we 822 00:53:09.920 --> 00:53:13.280 the company had a set contract for the as APP 823 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:20.960 through Biggeler Aerospace Advanced Spased Studies. Okay, so, uh so 824 00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:24.519 based on my work at NIDS and based on what 825 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:28.880 Hell put off and I found out through our other interaction, 826 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:35.480 non related, non UFO related work on advanced R and 827 00:53:35.559 --> 00:53:39.119 D with the senior vice president who was also the 828 00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:43.559 director of this company's Advanced Technology Center. Well he is 829 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:48.559 over he is sponsoring research study on vacuum entergy. That 830 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:53.159 we had a multi organizational collaboration, so it was Airthtech, 831 00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:58.320 cal State Long Beach, it was Mission Research, and the 832 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:01.880 guy there later moved to for company and then Lucky 833 00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:06.480 Martin Space Systems, and so that was the group of us. 834 00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:10.159 And so it was only by happenstance, through that affiliation 835 00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:14.559 that project that we were trying to get DARPATH funding 836 00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:19.360 for collectively as a as a group of scientists. We 837 00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:23.800 find out about the senior VP who sponsored that project 838 00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:28.159 internally having something to do with the Legacy Craft's retrieval 839 00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:31.719 program in his company, not overall, just in his company. 840 00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.840 I want to ask, did insiders people that worked on 841 00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:39.480 the program or wait, wait, let me. 842 00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:41.599 Let me hang on, let me answer the rest of 843 00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:47.079 your questions. Okay, Katski, so Lakat's key has come out 844 00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:52.639 and provided two pieces of information that none of us 845 00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:58.360 heard before. And I understood from Colin Keller heard that 846 00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.760 he and but Bigelow. I don't know that he's speaking 847 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:03.280 for Bigelow, but it's possible that the same is true 848 00:55:03.320 --> 00:55:05.679 for Bige Little. But I know Colin said he never 849 00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:13.039 heard those tidbit revelations from Lukatski during the as APP 850 00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:16.440 or even within the few years after the as APP 851 00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:20.800 and how put off. And I certainly didn't hear that 852 00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:27.039 information before. I met with Jim Mkatski for a long 853 00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:30.840 for a relatively long term, more than a day at 854 00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:34.079 the Army Research Lab at a Delphi, Maryland in July 855 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.880 of twenty fifteen. We were there attending an advanced energy 856 00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:41.880 workshop and so he was there. I was one of 857 00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:45.840 the session chairs, and I gave a plenary talk on 858 00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:50.840 my session, which was quantum vacuum energy, and then I 859 00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:56.639 had experts in quantum vacuum zero point fluctuations zero point energy, 860 00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:01.719 which I embraced umbrella with quantum vacuum energy to simplify 861 00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:05.280 the terminology. And so Jim is there, he's in the audience. 862 00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:07.880 He's not presenting, he's just in the audience. He pulled 863 00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:12.320 me aside. Let's see, this was like a two day event, 864 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:17.519 as I recall, So he pulled me a side one 865 00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:21.039 day and might have been a three day event. It was. 866 00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:23.199 It was a three day event. So he pulled me aside. 867 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:25.360 During one of those days, we had a long break 868 00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:29.679 when we walked to the far end of the building. 869 00:56:30.280 --> 00:56:33.480 This is this workshop taking place in a big meeting 870 00:56:33.559 --> 00:56:36.599 room upstairs. So we're on the second floor. There's a 871 00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:39.679 long hallway with windows on one side of it, and 872 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:42.920 then a wall on the other side with doors, big 873 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.519 lab doors and office doors. There's no markings on them. 874 00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:48.599 So we're walking down the other end to get away 875 00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:51.639 from people. We're near the restrooms and nobody's going in 876 00:56:51.639 --> 00:56:54.079 and out of the restrooms, so we're over by there. 877 00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:56.440 He wanted to tell me about what's happening with him 878 00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:03.559 at the DA. He contracted leukemia and was gonna take 879 00:57:03.559 --> 00:57:07.880 a medical leave of absence from the DA to undergo treatment, 880 00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:11.760 and he didn't know exactly how long he'd be gone, 881 00:57:11.960 --> 00:57:14.440 but if he could successfully beat it and get it 882 00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:17.559 into remission, he'd go back to the DA, go back 883 00:57:17.599 --> 00:57:20.760 to work again, and stay until he was ready to retire. 884 00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.480 So that was the last time I saw Jim. And 885 00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:27.239 even then, Jim did not bring up the fact that 886 00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:32.639 he had gone into a UAP whose program engineers managed 887 00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:35.039 to figure out how to open it up. And then 888 00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:40.400 the other fact that he gave to Corbel and Nap 889 00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.800 that if I remember I sent that to information to you, 890 00:57:44.920 --> 00:57:49.079 it was about triangular shape craft. I'm going to have 891 00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:51.719 to refer to my notes here so I can remember 892 00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:59.440 the exact wording. So hang on, I think I need 893 00:57:59.480 --> 00:58:02.840 to expand that message a bit. Oh. Yes, So the 894 00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:07.760 military was seeing triangles, uh, and so we were. So 895 00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:09.840 the OSAP was trying to figure out the physics of 896 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:14.400 how to do that type of propulsion and uh. And 897 00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:17.559 he was asked by Jeremy Corbell, do you think it's 898 00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:21.039 already been achieved by the US government or or it 899 00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:24.320 hasn't and that's why asapp had a ton of value, 900 00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:27.119 had a lot of value. And Jim mcatsky replied, it 901 00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:32.239 hasn't been achieved to its full extent, interesting extent? Did 902 00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:36.920 they achieve it seventy five percent? I don't know because 903 00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:40.119 he never told us. So how put Up and I 904 00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:42.000 have talked about these things, and we're looking at each 905 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:46.880 other like huh so, uh No, this isn't disinformation. This 906 00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:52.559 is the DPSR telling Jim what he can say publicly 907 00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:55.719 in his books versus what he can't say in his books. 908 00:58:55.800 --> 00:58:59.039 And they cleared him to say what he says, and 909 00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:01.760 obviously they cleared him to say what he said to 910 00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:05.480 Corbella and Nap. I haven't read his second to his 911 00:59:05.559 --> 00:59:07.800 second and third bookshet, so I don't know if that 912 00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:11.000 thing about the triangles is even in there. I haven't 913 00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:12.960 gone all the way through the first book yet either. 914 00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:18.440 So you think it's so it's real. Lukatsky would have 915 00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:25.239 the eligibility for access, which guys like remember the the 916 00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:29.920 video interview involving Sammy Gerb hal put Off, Avy Lobe 917 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:36.719 and Congressman Eric Burleson on what was that June twenty, 918 00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:41.840 I think, yeah, something like that. So it was right 919 00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:43.599 after it was right, was it? But I think it 920 00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:45.679 was either before it was either one day before. I 921 00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:48.360 think it was the night before the disclosure form. If 922 00:59:48.400 --> 00:59:50.519 not the night out. No, they had a bank with 923 00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:55.519 the night anyway. So this is this is the thing. 924 00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:01.920 It's just that I was trained and educated, well more 925 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:05.480 trained and given training. It's routine when you have a 926 01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:08.880 net when you're employed as a contractor to support a 927 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:12.480 NASA contract like I was at the Aerospace Corporation, So 928 01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:16.480 my government customers NASA. I'm on the NASA site interacting 929 01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:20.000 with those in a program that I am supporting under 930 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:24.280 the contract, okay. And then I'm an employee of the company. 931 01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:29.239 So the company has TSSCI projects and they probably have 932 01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:35.239 SAP projects too, Okay. So we get routine security training frequently, 933 01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.679 like about two or three times a year. Different not 934 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.920 all the same thing repeated, it's different elements of it, 935 01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:43.119 and we get it every year. So that's at the 936 01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.719 Aerospace Corporation level, and then we have that at the 937 01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:48.880 NASA level. If you've got NASA equities, like you have 938 01:00:48.920 --> 01:00:51.559 a NASA contractor badge that gives you access to all 939 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.760 the facilities at the Marshall Space Flight Center, which sits 940 01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:57.360 into the red Stone Arsenal. It gets me access to 941 01:00:57.400 --> 01:00:59.719 the red Stone Arsenal to get in and get to 942 01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:03.440 the net A campus, okay. And then also it's got 943 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.280 an air Fight RFID chip that I put in the 944 01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.960 side of my NASA issue laptop so I can access 945 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:13.000 the laptop. Okay. So in return for that, I have 946 01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:16.719 to take all the h the equivalent NASA version of 947 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.320 all the same training I'd had at aerospace. So I 948 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:23.440 am learning everything, uh and anything. And I've taken the 949 01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:28.199 Special Access Program Security officer training, are taking counterintelligence training 950 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:30.880 through another venue. And this is all hosted by the 951 01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:35.000 Defense counter Intelligence Security Agency for contractors and government people 952 01:01:35.079 --> 01:01:39.480 employees that have security clearances. So I can tell you 953 01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:48.079 that that I understand the DOP DOOPS or d O 954 01:01:48.159 --> 01:01:50.800 p SR. I don't remember what the full acronym is, 955 01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:55.760 but DA's Defense, so it's a defense office for what spr. 956 01:01:55.159 --> 01:01:56.440 Pre public prepublication. 957 01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:01.199 There you go, So, uh, I can tell you I 958 01:02:01.360 --> 01:02:06.480 know what the criteria is to delineate between that which 959 01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:11.880 is super sensitive and should not be revealed in a book, magazine, newspaper, 960 01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:18.400 or a podcast interview, or even whispering to your grandmother 961 01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:22.519 before she dies and that and then distinguished between that 962 01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:26.320 information information which is not considered to be sensitive. So 963 01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:29.840 that's how come I can tell you that what that 964 01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:36.000 DPSR told Jim Lukatski, what he can talk about openly 965 01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:41.199 that isn't that sensitive today. And I already had that training, 966 01:02:41.239 --> 01:02:43.639 so I know that when I talk about this stuff 967 01:02:43.880 --> 01:02:46.719 and you're hearing me say things, there's a lot of 968 01:02:46.760 --> 01:02:49.039 people out there that see me on these podcasts saying, 969 01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:50.760 oh my god, Eric Day, or maybe they see me 970 01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:54.599 at the Soul Foundation symposium and the I didn't make 971 01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:59.480 it to the disclosure form because of work major changes 972 01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:02.000 that works, so I had to stay home anyway, So 973 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:04.280 they hear me say these things on podcast or at 974 01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:07.679 these big forms, Oh my god, he's revealing classified information. 975 01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:09.800 Why isn't he getting arrested in charge and going to 976 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:12.079 prison and all that stuff? And it's no, it's because 977 01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:14.639 I've been trained on the process. I know what the 978 01:03:14.679 --> 01:03:17.639 criteria and the guardrails are, so I know what I 979 01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:21.000 can say. I can say to you guys that there 980 01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:26.440 are a minimum of four different alien species and they 981 01:03:26.519 --> 01:03:32.719 are known from the public domain and in the classified world, 982 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:38.800 the credibility isn't. The credibility of that ranges on the 983 01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:44.119 spectrum from no credibility to high credibility. The high credibility 984 01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:48.679 is the classified part, and in the high credibility not 985 01:03:48.800 --> 01:03:52.119 on the far end of it. But there are credible 986 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:55.440 witnesses who have been corroborated by multiple other witnesses or 987 01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:58.920 had other means of corroborating their account of an encounter 988 01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:03.159 with one of the species. So there's some high credibility 989 01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:09.000 for witness accounts, and there's medium, low, and none, and 990 01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:12.760 there's a minimum of four. And if you look at 991 01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:17.079 Bob Emmenager's book UFO's Past President in Future, published in 992 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:22.880 nineteen seventy four, he's got a beautiful center section. It's 993 01:04:22.920 --> 01:04:25.920 black and white, and it shows you a taxonomy of 994 01:04:25.960 --> 01:04:31.119 the known UFOs that the US government had documentation for 995 01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:35.719 or classified information on. It wasn't just all Project blue Book. 996 01:04:35.719 --> 01:04:38.960 It incorporated Project Blue Book of course those craft but 997 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.480 it's a taxonomy of all these different crafts. Well next 998 01:04:41.480 --> 01:04:44.159 to that is the taxonomy of all the different type 999 01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:48.239 of aliens that have been investigated in the reports that 1000 01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:53.679 Blue Book took and investigated, as well as classified stuff 1001 01:04:53.719 --> 01:04:58.039 that was released. So the stuff was released. The MacArthur 1002 01:04:58.159 --> 01:05:02.960 Foundation and the Department of Defense were the sponsors Bob 1003 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:10.360 Emmenager's two documentary television shows, UFOs It Has Begun and 1004 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:13.119 then it got retitled. It might have been UFOs it 1005 01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:15.679 had Past President and Future, but I know that it 1006 01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:18.079 got retitled to the other one, UFOs It Has Begun. 1007 01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:20.760 I might have him backwards, but anyway, the second one. 1008 01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:23.039 First one came out in seventy four. Second one came 1009 01:05:23.039 --> 01:05:26.880 out in seventy six. The second one, The Differences Shock. 1010 01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:28.800 The Lee was added as one of the co hosts 1011 01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:33.719 and he specifically did the segment of the show on 1012 01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:36.920 cattle mutilations and that's why he was added to the show. 1013 01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:41.119 But that was in seventy six. So anyway, the companion 1014 01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:43.239 book came out in seventy four to go out to 1015 01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:46.480 come out with the first documentary, and those are sponsored 1016 01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:49.960 by the DoD and the Department and the MacArthur Foundation. 1017 01:05:50.119 --> 01:05:53.119 So this is serious stuff. So there you go. 1018 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:57.360 Okay, and I want to circle back to Lakatski. Do 1019 01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:01.800 you think it was possible that he was Legacy program 1020 01:06:02.119 --> 01:06:02.639 all along? 1021 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:07.719 No, he wouldn't be in the Legacy program. I know 1022 01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:12.800 his job duties. He's a ballistic missile engineer, so he 1023 01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:15.440 wouldn't be a fit for the Legacy program. It doesn't 1024 01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:20.199 mean they wouldn't. They wouldn't consult him on a technological 1025 01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:24.119 basis because he has a doctorate of engineering. I have 1026 01:06:24.239 --> 01:06:27.320 a doctorate in philosophy. I have a doctor of philosophy. 1027 01:06:27.800 --> 01:06:31.159 There are no doctorates of physics. It's always a PhD. 1028 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:33.920 But he has a doctorate of engineering based on the 1029 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:37.719 school he went to to earn that doctorate. They had 1030 01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:41.320 that particular title, so he's a doctor of engineering. It 1031 01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:44.480 could have been you know, here and there. You know, 1032 01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:47.840 they could have briefed him or consulted him without telling 1033 01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:52.719 him that they were the Legacy Program or one of 1034 01:06:52.800 --> 01:06:56.480 the actors in the Legacy program and they needed his information, 1035 01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:00.320 and it might not have been later on. Possibly, I 1036 01:07:00.440 --> 01:07:02.239 want to spin this up a little bit as a 1037 01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:06.840 big possible possibility. Possibly during the ass app when we 1038 01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:10.159 were looking for the legacy programs, he understood. He knew 1039 01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:13.079 already because he had Jay Stratton working with him. It's 1040 01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.039 not Jim that stood up the ass app. It's Jim 1041 01:07:16.280 --> 01:07:20.400 Lekotski and Jay Stratton. They both stood up the os 1042 01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:24.400 app and Jay's memo, his memoir is finally coming out 1043 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:27.519 in October. He's got an actual day of that month 1044 01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:30.400 that that memoir is coming out. I'm hoping he'll talk 1045 01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:35.159 about that, that that issue, that era, that history. And uh, 1046 01:07:35.559 --> 01:07:37.679 it's not out of the question that Jim could have 1047 01:07:37.880 --> 01:07:41.000 been briefed at a superficial level for the purpose of 1048 01:07:41.079 --> 01:07:44.079 consultations or as a courtesy briefing, because let me tell 1049 01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:46.760 you about a man named Jim Semivan, who all of 1050 01:07:46.880 --> 01:07:49.679 you out there in UFO Land are very familiar with 1051 01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:55.320 from TTSA days, Jim semi Van also received a complimentary 1052 01:07:55.480 --> 01:08:01.840 or courtesy I think situation forget that, I'll say situational 1053 01:08:01.920 --> 01:08:09.800 awareness briefing on the crash retrieval programs. But that's at 1054 01:08:09.880 --> 01:08:13.719 a superficial top level. That's at the top level. He 1055 01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:20.359 was invited to get the more detailed technical information level 1056 01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:25.840 briefings that would come after another time, another location, but 1057 01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:29.920 he turned that invitation down because he found the top 1058 01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:36.880 level situational awareness briefing to be pretty boring. He kind 1059 01:08:36.920 --> 01:08:39.720 of recognized what it was about, and I think after 1060 01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:42.359 the fact, he really recognized what they were talking about 1061 01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:45.079 after talking to some people about it, but he did 1062 01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:47.840 recognize what it was about. I'd say he was kind 1063 01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:51.600 of you know, it's like, what what are they talking about? 1064 01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:55.079 So anyway, they were gonna they invited him to get 1065 01:08:55.119 --> 01:08:57.640 the full Monty and he did not want to do 1066 01:08:57.680 --> 01:08:59.960 the full Monty because here's why. He works in the 1067 01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:06.079 Clandestine Directorate, the Directorate of Operations. It might be formally 1068 01:09:06.159 --> 01:09:08.279 known as the National Clandestine Service. I don't know if 1069 01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:10.760 they still use that name or not, but anyway, that's 1070 01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:13.399 what his job was. So he's not a technical guy, 1071 01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:16.319 not at that level. He would be of no use 1072 01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:18.319 to them to get He would be of no use 1073 01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:20.359 to them for them to give him that briefing because 1074 01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:22.359 he wouldn't be able to give him technical feedback on 1075 01:09:22.479 --> 01:09:26.000 it and say, oh I got an idea, you missed something. 1076 01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:30.159 What about that? No, that's not Jim. Jim's a spine. 1077 01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:36.079 Sure, So you don't think it's possible that OSAFF was 1078 01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:41.520 spun up as a kind of a side quest to 1079 01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:47.000 see spun up as a side quest by somebody in 1080 01:09:47.079 --> 01:09:51.520 the Legacy program to see if another program could find 1081 01:09:51.560 --> 01:09:52.880 the Legacy Program. 1082 01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:56.680 I don't know, and that's a good question. I really 1083 01:09:56.760 --> 01:10:00.520 don't know. But if they did do that, that was 1084 01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:06.840 not known to Harry Reid. I don't know that Jay 1085 01:10:07.039 --> 01:10:11.520 Stratton and Jim McCaskey could even volunteer that information, but 1086 01:10:14.600 --> 01:10:19.960 it's possibility. I cracked TRW and I cracked the other company. 1087 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:23.760 I know Sammy Gerb revealed the name of the company 1088 01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:26.359 and even mentioned the senior VP's name. I know I've 1089 01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:29.760 accidentally let slipped out those names at the Soul Foundation 1090 01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:33.800 Forum in San Francisco in November two thousand and four, 1091 01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:38.640 when Sammy and Jack Orkittt and two other guys were 1092 01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:42.960 interviewing me during lunch, and I got flack for that 1093 01:10:43.439 --> 01:10:47.840 because this was a lunch interview and they served lunch 1094 01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:50.319 and drinks to all of us because we were in 1095 01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:53.600 the middle of a very short window lunch period between 1096 01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:56.760 technical sessions, and I didn't want to miss the next 1097 01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:01.680 session that Admiral Galladet is leading, and I really didn't 1098 01:11:01.680 --> 01:11:03.439 want to miss it. I ended up missing about half 1099 01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:05.680 a bit in the end because of that interview. So 1100 01:11:05.800 --> 01:11:07.760 I'm I'm chucking food down. 1101 01:11:11.079 --> 01:11:12.319 I want to go back to you. 1102 01:11:12.600 --> 01:11:16.159 You were talking about dopts her and dopts her, essentially 1103 01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:20.800 giving people that have worked in classified programs the go 1104 01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:23.359 ahead or no go to talk about a specific thing. 1105 01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:27.640 You obviously were around a lot of people that had 1106 01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:31.359 greater access to things that maybe you weren't. 1107 01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:35.159 You weren't read able to get into those compartments. 1108 01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:38.800 Did any of those insiders ever want you to publicly 1109 01:11:39.039 --> 01:11:42.239 validate what they couldn't say on the record, what they 1110 01:11:42.399 --> 01:11:44.119 you know, what they couldn't say, et cetera. 1111 01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:48.680 We had a plan just to answer that question, help 1112 01:11:48.760 --> 01:11:52.239 put up myself, Bob Bigelow, call him keller Her. We 1113 01:11:52.359 --> 01:11:55.560 came up with the plan with that senior VP in 1114 01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:01.399 that California big aerospace company, one of them, and I'm 1115 01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:03.479 not going to name them, but you guys know who 1116 01:12:03.520 --> 01:12:08.760 I'm talking about. Okay, So the plan was this. They're 1117 01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:13.239 stove piping. That's the euphemism for compartmentalization under a wave 1118 01:12:13.319 --> 01:12:17.560 and acknowledged Special Access Program security regime. It's so onerous 1119 01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:20.760 that they've only got roughly five people working on the 1120 01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:24.439 program at any one time. Now. The program was actually 1121 01:12:24.520 --> 01:12:27.439 shut down in May of nineteen eighty nine for all 1122 01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:31.119 the companies involved, not for their company it was all 1123 01:12:31.239 --> 01:12:34.199 of the companies involved with the contract to the CIA. 1124 01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:37.880 CIA shut it down due to the lack of progress. 1125 01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:41.359 I mean, these guys had contracts running since probably nineteen sixty, 1126 01:12:42.279 --> 01:12:45.000 is what I found out, So I'll take back the 1127 01:12:45.039 --> 01:12:48.039 word probably. I know it was nineteen sixty at the 1128 01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:52.239 beginning because TRW was found and the founded and the 1129 01:12:52.279 --> 01:12:56.920 Aerospace Corporation was spun out of TRW, and they were 1130 01:12:56.960 --> 01:12:59.800 both born in nineteen sixty, So that's the earliest that 1131 01:12:59.840 --> 01:13:03.199 they could have been involved, okay in all this. And 1132 01:13:03.720 --> 01:13:05.520 the same with the other company, and i'll name it. 1133 01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:09.119 I'll say it Lockeyed Aircraft Company. Okay, So there's also 1134 01:13:09.319 --> 01:13:15.000 huge aircraft company and the Aerospace Corporation. So anyway, this 1135 01:13:15.239 --> 01:13:18.039 goes back to the sixties documentation. In the sixties I 1136 01:13:18.119 --> 01:13:23.520 found out the Douglass Aircraft Company, which which named them. Okay. So, 1137 01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:33.640 so the singer VP at this company thought that our 1138 01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:38.479 program was unique and it was a great vehicle for 1139 01:13:38.800 --> 01:13:43.880 his company to take their holdings. Their holdings being some 1140 01:13:44.039 --> 01:13:47.520 of the crash retrieval materials that they retained which the 1141 01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:50.600 CIA never got back when they canceled the program in 1142 01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:53.600 eighty nine. This company retained some of the stuff. They 1143 01:13:53.640 --> 01:13:56.199 were supposed to return one percent of it. It's like 1144 01:13:56.479 --> 01:14:01.119 you got a box of Christmas tree ornaments under contract 1145 01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:04.199 with us. We're you know, we're the owner, we're the CIA, 1146 01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:06.920 We owned the Christmas tree, the box of ornaments. You 1147 01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:10.319 guys were given the box of ornaments to analyze and 1148 01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:13.279 when and you didn't do that. You didn't do well, 1149 01:14:13.359 --> 01:14:16.039 you couldn't figure it out. The ornaments are too advanced. 1150 01:14:16.520 --> 01:14:20.039 So we're taking it back. We're canceling the contract. And 1151 01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:22.199 when we cancel that contract, you got to return the 1152 01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:25.279 whole box filled with the ornaments that were in that box. Well, 1153 01:14:25.640 --> 01:14:32.199 that company didn't return probably about maybe about twenty percent 1154 01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:32.920 of the ornaments. 1155 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:34.760 Okay, so. 1156 01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:41.039 Ornaments, yep, So eighty percent of the ornaments got returned, 1157 01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:44.960 and the company quietly kept twenty percent on the chance 1158 01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:52.920 that over the years their laboratory technology, physics, and engineering 1159 01:14:53.079 --> 01:14:56.760 would have advanced over the years such that they reach 1160 01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:59.119 a point where they want to pull those twenty percent 1161 01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:02.359 of the ornaments. They for themselves out and put them 1162 01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:04.159 back in the lab again and see if they could 1163 01:15:04.279 --> 01:15:09.000 use the new laboratory techniques, new laboratory diagnostic tools like 1164 01:15:09.279 --> 01:15:13.439 what Gary Norlan has at Stanford any apply any of 1165 01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:18.159 the new applied physics theories that come from theoretical physics, 1166 01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:20.399 and any of the new engineering principles that come out 1167 01:15:20.439 --> 01:15:25.319 of advanced engineering developments, and so they were doing it 1168 01:15:25.399 --> 01:15:27.720 for that reason. They were trying to see if they 1169 01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:32.159 could get a commercial and military advantage over our foreign 1170 01:15:32.199 --> 01:15:39.680 adversaries on the military advantage side and commercially competitive adversaries 1171 01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:43.640 in the US capital industry, you know, the capitalist industry system, 1172 01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:48.079 the free enterprise system. They got competitors in the aerospace 1173 01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:51.760 defense intelligence industry, and you know, maybe some of this 1174 01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:55.079 material they might figure it out ten years, twenty years 1175 01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:57.239 in the future, and they got, oh, wow, we can 1176 01:15:57.319 --> 01:16:00.479 invent a new technology that'll bring us even more revenue 1177 01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:02.800 than the F thirty five did. Uh, that's what the 1178 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:07.640 that's their mentality. But when we came to them and said, hey, 1179 01:16:07.760 --> 01:16:10.399 you know, we've been working with you on vacuum energy stuff, 1180 01:16:11.720 --> 01:16:14.800 and uh, let's start the exchange of information about our 1181 01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:17.520 work on us up, what we're doing, what our mission 1182 01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:22.760 goals are. And they reached a consensus that what they 1183 01:16:22.840 --> 01:16:26.720 could do is take the twenty percent of the Christmas 1184 01:16:26.760 --> 01:16:36.319 Tree ornaments that they kept and initiate a contract with Artech. Okay, 1185 01:16:36.479 --> 01:16:40.880 here Hall and I and our other staff here in Austin, Texas. 1186 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:46.680 Uh and we would get that material. But Hallan but 1187 01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:50.359 Ertech did not have the advanced diagnostic laboratories that even 1188 01:16:50.520 --> 01:16:56.159 that company had. We have access to diagnostic tools in 1189 01:16:56.359 --> 01:16:59.039 Austin that worked for the chip fabrication companies for the 1190 01:16:59.319 --> 01:17:02.800 like Samson is here and Advanced micro Devices was here 1191 01:17:03.039 --> 01:17:05.439 and so forth. Okay, so the idea was to give 1192 01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:08.640 it to Hertek, and then we turn it around. We 1193 01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:12.520 go back to that company and we say, hey, company XYZ, 1194 01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:17.439 we got these weird t these weird Christmas tree ornaments, 1195 01:17:17.479 --> 01:17:20.640 and we can't figure these out. We don't have the tools, 1196 01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:24.039 but we got the money from our government contract to 1197 01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:27.680 pay you under a contract to have the best of 1198 01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:33.880 your best laboratory people and theory people to do laboratory 1199 01:17:33.960 --> 01:17:39.920 studies on these Christmas ornaments. And we'll sweeten the deal. 1200 01:17:40.560 --> 01:17:44.880 Any new discoveries your teams make, your team or teams 1201 01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:48.319 make you could publish in the peer review technical journals, 1202 01:17:49.600 --> 01:17:54.960 and that would be a way of outing those materials 1203 01:17:55.000 --> 01:17:59.359 into the public domain by going through science only, not 1204 01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:03.520 going to the papers, not saying, Aha, we've got alien technology. 1205 01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:06.399 You're gonna have guys like Michael Schrmer sitting on older 1206 01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:08.399 and are you going to be given us trouble and 1207 01:18:08.920 --> 01:18:12.560 uh you know, using ad hominem and talks against us. Yeah, 1208 01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:18.239 the long long yeah, long distance, long duration bicyclist guy. 1209 01:18:18.760 --> 01:18:23.880 So yeah, so uh so, No, we wanted to go 1210 01:18:24.039 --> 01:18:26.760 to science, which is a v lob's push right now, 1211 01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:31.359 with capturing UFO data or UAP data with instrumentation, advanced 1212 01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:35.319 scientific instrumentation, measurements and signals intelligence is what guys like 1213 01:18:35.439 --> 01:18:38.399 me call it. So uh so, that was the idea, 1214 01:18:38.560 --> 01:18:41.720 get this material into science. When you make a discovery, 1215 01:18:42.159 --> 01:18:44.720 if you make a discovery like this metal or this 1216 01:18:44.880 --> 01:18:48.199 ceramic or this plastic is really unusual. It's nothing like 1217 01:18:48.279 --> 01:18:50.680 what we have anywhere on Earth. Nobody on Earth is 1218 01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:54.560 even remotely close to making these or even theoretically discussing 1219 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:58.279 these in the technical period viewed literature in their respective 1220 01:18:58.359 --> 01:19:02.720 scientific disciplines. Nobody's close. This is really exotic. So this 1221 01:19:02.880 --> 01:19:06.279 is how they would get it into the science, into 1222 01:19:06.319 --> 01:19:09.159 the scientific community. And that's what we said. We said, 1223 01:19:09.279 --> 01:19:11.680 you could take it out of the classification, stove piped. 1224 01:19:11.720 --> 01:19:14.399 Get it out of the wave and acknowledged special Access program. 1225 01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:17.199 Get it out of there, give it to earth Tech 1226 01:19:17.319 --> 01:19:19.800 under a contract. Earth Tech turns around, gives it back 1227 01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:23.479 to you under contract, and you no longer have it 1228 01:19:24.079 --> 01:19:27.560 under waved and acknowledged Special Access program because we don't 1229 01:19:27.600 --> 01:19:30.439 have that level of clearance. You've released it to us 1230 01:19:30.600 --> 01:19:33.199 under TSSCI. We're going to give it back to you 1231 01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:37.359 under maybe a secret level or for official use only level, 1232 01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:42.039 maybe even non not in any collateral security level. We 1233 01:19:42.199 --> 01:19:44.159 give it back to you. You study it, you make 1234 01:19:44.239 --> 01:19:46.239 the discoveries of what it is, what it's about, and 1235 01:19:46.359 --> 01:19:49.560 maybe you come up with applications. You might think of 1236 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:54.079 genius applications for it. You publish that in a bunch 1237 01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:57.439 of period of view technical journals, in your research literature, 1238 01:19:57.680 --> 01:20:00.720 your laboratory, you know, in this literature of matter science, 1239 01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:04.640 engineering and physics and so forth, semiconductors and things like that, 1240 01:20:05.520 --> 01:20:09.319 and then we get that information out. Then when you 1241 01:20:09.439 --> 01:20:12.520 go do your due diligence, which is on your job, 1242 01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:16.399 it's best to communicate your scientific discoveries, even if it's 1243 01:20:16.479 --> 01:20:19.199 in the private industry, even if that discovery is made 1244 01:20:19.239 --> 01:20:22.760 in the private industry. If it's not at that point 1245 01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:25.840 this is not a classified contract, we probably want to 1246 01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:28.720 downgrade that heavily. I don't know that we would want 1247 01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:32.439 to do it at TS level S level, maybe official 1248 01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:35.520 use only, or maybe at propriety. I think, you know what, 1249 01:20:35.680 --> 01:20:37.439 now that I think about it, something like that would 1250 01:20:37.439 --> 01:20:41.520 be done at the corporate proprietary level between two companies. 1251 01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:43.960 So I think that's how that would actually happen. So 1252 01:20:44.159 --> 01:20:46.159 we would bring we would do it at the proprietary 1253 01:20:46.239 --> 01:20:50.359 information level. So then their scientists are going to want 1254 01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:56.399 to go to the professional science conferences in their disciplines, 1255 01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:00.840 and they'll associate with their disciplines like the I Triple LEA, 1256 01:21:01.119 --> 01:21:04.840 the American Society for Mechanical Engineers, the American Institute of 1257 01:21:04.880 --> 01:21:07.800 Aeronautics and Astronautics, et cetera. So you go and give 1258 01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:12.720 a technical presentation on your discovery relevant to the discipline 1259 01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:16.039 of that conference that you're attending. Then you might have 1260 01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:19.079 a statement saying, which we all have to do. I 1261 01:21:19.159 --> 01:21:21.399 had to do that for my AFRL studies. By the way, 1262 01:21:21.439 --> 01:21:24.760 the teleportation physics study wasn't my only study. I did 1263 01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:27.920 five or six of them totally. Only one of them 1264 01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:31.159 didn't get published. Okay, So when you do, when you 1265 01:21:31.239 --> 01:21:34.319 give a presentation based on a government contract and I 1266 01:21:34.439 --> 01:21:39.840 have you have to say this study was funded under 1267 01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:45.720 contract number XYZ one two three with the Air Force 1268 01:21:45.800 --> 01:21:48.279 Research Lab for example. So in these guys, in this 1269 01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:51.840 case of this scenario that we were designing, it would 1270 01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:55.800 be the guys from company XYZ would then say on 1271 01:21:55.960 --> 01:21:58.960 their presentation slide it was also been on their technical papers. 1272 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:00.720 By the way, you do the same thing. You have 1273 01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:03.840 to do the same thing in the acknowledgement section which 1274 01:22:03.960 --> 01:22:08.159 comes before the list of references in a technical paper. 1275 01:22:08.439 --> 01:22:12.560 You will acknowledge that this work that you are publishing 1276 01:22:13.520 --> 01:22:18.439 was made possible from by the funding under contract x 1277 01:22:18.560 --> 01:22:22.800 y Z one two three with the with DARPA for example, 1278 01:22:22.960 --> 01:22:26.359 DARPA Program Office X for example. So it's going to 1279 01:22:26.399 --> 01:22:28.359 be on the technical paper that you were funded on 1280 01:22:28.439 --> 01:22:31.319 that program under that contract number, and it will be 1281 01:22:31.399 --> 01:22:35.079 in the presentation slides out at conference. So then at 1282 01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:37.680 the conference, now in the technical paper you don't say 1283 01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:42.880 anything about UAP from an unknown origin. At the conference, 1284 01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:45.520 you might let that slip. You might just say, oh, 1285 01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:52.039 by the way, you know, guess what this is not 1286 01:22:52.199 --> 01:22:56.399 of human origin. Right, we didn't. We didn't dig this up. 1287 01:22:56.479 --> 01:22:58.479 We didn't just make this. This was given to us 1288 01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.920 from ab see, you know. So this is how we 1289 01:23:02.039 --> 01:23:05.239 will let it gently release into the public domain through 1290 01:23:05.279 --> 01:23:08.760 the scientific community, and that way they have the peer 1291 01:23:08.840 --> 01:23:13.520 review first eyes on that with on that discovery, and 1292 01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:16.119 that's how you get it more acceptable. So that was 1293 01:23:16.199 --> 01:23:20.159 the big plan. The big plan failed when Glenn Gaffney 1294 01:23:20.199 --> 01:23:24.279 got in the middle of our of that company's negotiation 1295 01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:27.880 between their executive vice president the senior VP that we 1296 01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:32.359 collaborated with during the ASP who help put off and 1297 01:23:32.439 --> 01:23:37.359 I had been working with with uh interorganization other organizational 1298 01:23:37.439 --> 01:23:43.640 teams on quantum vacum entergy stuff research and and uh 1299 01:23:44.319 --> 01:23:48.479 so I think I lost my train of thought. Again. 1300 01:23:48.800 --> 01:23:49.840 That's when I talk and. 1301 01:23:50.319 --> 01:23:52.359 No, I do I do the same thing. Well, I 1302 01:23:52.520 --> 01:23:54.840 have to say, I mean, I know, like c I 1303 01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:56.960 A is supposed to open up doors. You know, it's 1304 01:23:57.000 --> 01:23:58.079 a pretty big, big thing. 1305 01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:03.079 Yeah, there you go. And yeah, so I was going 1306 01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:05.720 to just say the EVP and the senior VP of 1307 01:24:05.800 --> 01:24:09.159 that company went to Glen Gaffney to get his permission 1308 01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:16.159 to transmit or transfer and transport the twenty percent of 1309 01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:20.479 the Christmas ornaments to EarthTech because they didn't own it. 1310 01:24:20.680 --> 01:24:23.680 They had to get the Glenn Gafney's permission because he 1311 01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:26.520 was a portfolio owner of all that, And when he 1312 01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:30.039 found out that they had twenty percent of those Christmas 1313 01:24:30.119 --> 01:24:33.880 tree ornaments in their possession since the shutdown of the 1314 01:24:33.920 --> 01:24:36.880 program in eighty nine, he went berserk, said absolutely not, 1315 01:24:37.000 --> 01:24:39.640 it's not going to happen. You ain't getting it. Then 1316 01:24:39.680 --> 01:24:45.000 Harry Reid went to Secretary Defense Leon Panetta I believe 1317 01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:47.439 it was at the time, and asked him to intercede. 1318 01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:50.319 Panetta refused to intercede and get in the middle of that. 1319 01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:55.119 So that was it that killed our plan, our brilliant, 1320 01:24:55.279 --> 01:24:56.159 genius plan. 1321 01:24:57.199 --> 01:25:00.079 Well, and I don't know if you've seen the I 1322 01:25:00.119 --> 01:25:02.359 don't know if you've seen the Steven Spielberg movie. But 1323 01:25:03.760 --> 01:25:06.359 everybody's like doing their career two point zero, and I 1324 01:25:06.479 --> 01:25:10.039 have to say Glenn Gaffney's acting career, I think is 1325 01:25:10.119 --> 01:25:11.800 off to a pretty good start. I thought he was 1326 01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:15.279 just absolutely fantastic in the movie, even though you know 1327 01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:17.560 he's a bit of an asshole in real life. As 1328 01:25:17.640 --> 01:25:19.880 I understand it now, I want to go back to 1329 01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:23.760 the program being shut down in eighty nine. So GERB 1330 01:25:23.960 --> 01:25:27.119 pushed back on this podcast, and by the way, folks, 1331 01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:32.119 he is an excellent, excellent researcher. And the question was 1332 01:25:32.239 --> 01:25:35.960 around this, you know the program being shut down, as 1333 01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:39.279 you said in nineteen eighty nine, is that firsthand information 1334 01:25:39.560 --> 01:25:41.680 that you know or where your ten this? 1335 01:25:42.319 --> 01:25:45.960 It was for first ten from the legacy program senior 1336 01:25:46.079 --> 01:25:48.760 VP at that one company, and he was not talking 1337 01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:52.359 about his company. He was talking about all of the companies. 1338 01:25:52.760 --> 01:25:56.920 And the problem is how hit a milestone birthday last month? 1339 01:25:57.000 --> 01:26:00.800 And he's older than God, you know, God love him, 1340 01:26:01.239 --> 01:26:05.079 and his memory is not quite as sharp at the 1341 01:26:05.159 --> 01:26:12.319 detailed information level, so how how forgot? He's forgotten? So 1342 01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:16.239 the first ten information is that the entire legacy program 1343 01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:19.800 was shut down in eighty nine. But the CIA, what 1344 01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:22.199 how for that to say? Is that maybe how didn't 1345 01:26:22.199 --> 01:26:23.760 think he could say it, but I will say it 1346 01:26:25.039 --> 01:26:30.079 the CIA, I'm sorry the legacy that senior VP said, 1347 01:26:30.119 --> 01:26:34.199 the CIA will bring it out once every ten years 1348 01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:37.880 and give new contracts to the companies and then they 1349 01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:40.520 will bring it and then they will receive the materials 1350 01:26:40.640 --> 01:26:44.039 back and they will attempt to use. Now we're ten 1351 01:26:44.119 --> 01:26:47.319 years into the future from the shutdown, and it may 1352 01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:50.199 take and they may not be successful, but they get 1353 01:26:50.199 --> 01:26:52.199 a contract, they get the materials, they work on it, 1354 01:26:52.239 --> 01:26:54.600 and they said, we still can't figure it out, so 1355 01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:57.199 they put it back into cold storage again for another 1356 01:26:57.319 --> 01:27:01.119 ten year period. CIA comes back says, Okay, try again. 1357 01:27:01.359 --> 01:27:05.119 So they're gonna keep doing this until the laboratory, diagnostic, instrumentation, 1358 01:27:05.720 --> 01:27:10.520 physics theories, applied physics, and engineering principles catch up. And 1359 01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:13.560 then when that next ten year period comes that it 1360 01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:20.880 gets resurfaced for another look by the legacy programs legacy companies. UH, 1361 01:27:21.520 --> 01:27:24.399 then they may get successful. And I think, given what 1362 01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:27.880 Lukatski said about the triangular shape crap, which I had 1363 01:27:27.960 --> 01:27:31.399 never heard about, not just me but several of us 1364 01:27:31.520 --> 01:27:35.439 on the offset at the contractor level, that tells me 1365 01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:42.279 that somebody somewhere got successful. And now, since the companies 1366 01:27:42.319 --> 01:27:46.479 can't talk to each other, it won't be Boeing and Lockheed, 1367 01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:51.920 it won't be Lockheed and Raydeon UH, and it won't 1368 01:27:51.960 --> 01:27:55.119 be Radion and North or Grumman or some combination thereof 1369 01:27:55.199 --> 01:27:57.680 of all that. It could be somebody else even buttell 1370 01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:01.239 by the way. Betel Memorial Institute was another one. A ha, 1371 01:28:01.760 --> 01:28:05.119 so that's one that Sammy didn't think about. Uh. They 1372 01:28:05.199 --> 01:28:08.560 are an FFRDC and they had a hand in UFO 1373 01:28:08.680 --> 01:28:11.880 material analysis for Project Bluebook, and they had a classified 1374 01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:13.000 report top secret. 1375 01:28:13.359 --> 01:28:13.479 Uh. 1376 01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:18.439 Jacques nicknamed it the Pentacle Memo in his first volume 1377 01:28:18.520 --> 01:28:21.840 of Forbidden Science. And unfortunately, the modern versions of that 1378 01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:24.239 book you can get, you know, the updated, newer version, 1379 01:28:24.680 --> 01:28:27.039 they don't have that damn memo in it. You have 1380 01:28:27.119 --> 01:28:28.880 to go back and get the old one with the 1381 01:28:28.960 --> 01:28:34.000 green paperback cover, and it's got the Pentacle memo reproduced 1382 01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:37.760 in it. So it's been allegedly declassified. I think it 1383 01:28:37.800 --> 01:28:42.359 has been declassified finally. So so Hotel so I tell 1384 01:28:42.479 --> 01:28:44.760 is another one of those companies that was involved. I 1385 01:28:44.920 --> 01:28:47.760 know that to the labs at the Department of Energy, 1386 01:28:47.840 --> 01:28:51.039 which back then was the AEC, the Atomic Energy Commission 1387 01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:53.680 for those of you who are very young and uninformed, 1388 01:28:54.479 --> 01:28:59.560 poorly educated in school, the Atomic Energy Commission owned all 1389 01:28:59.600 --> 01:29:04.079 those Manhattan Project labs which became the National Labs. And 1390 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:07.279 you have Los Alamos and the IDOH National Lab. And 1391 01:29:07.479 --> 01:29:12.000 unfortunately Samy named Livermore and Oakridge. You couldn't be more wrong. 1392 01:29:13.239 --> 01:29:17.279 It's the other two, so okay, but Bettel works in 1393 01:29:17.439 --> 01:29:22.840 with them. Bettel actually runs I n L. Lockheed, Martin 1394 01:29:23.079 --> 01:29:27.520 runs Los Alamos. I don't. Yeah, So anyway, there we go. 1395 01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:30.279 Okay, So it's entirely possible. 1396 01:29:31.079 --> 01:29:33.399 This program, if you want to call it the Legacy 1397 01:29:33.479 --> 01:29:35.640 program or not, has been spun up again. 1398 01:29:38.319 --> 01:29:41.279 It's okay, here's the thing. The companies got shut down, 1399 01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:44.199 but that doesn't mean the program offices at the CIA 1400 01:29:44.399 --> 01:29:47.319 and the Air Force, which is their executive agent on 1401 01:29:47.840 --> 01:29:51.119 most of this stuff, well, on this topic and other 1402 01:29:51.439 --> 01:29:54.520 topics that have nothing to do with UFOs and aliens. Okay, 1403 01:29:54.960 --> 01:29:59.680 So those program offices are still in existence. They have 1404 01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:05.039 primary compartments. They'll have sub compartments within the wa've done 1405 01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:11.119 acknowledge Special Access program, regime, security regime, okay, or infrastructure 1406 01:30:11.119 --> 01:30:14.079 if you will. So there are compartments and sub compartments, 1407 01:30:14.239 --> 01:30:18.520 and they all had code names, and those can keep 1408 01:30:18.640 --> 01:30:24.000 going using government resources. So there might be some folks 1409 01:30:24.079 --> 01:30:26.159 out at one of the national labs running it at 1410 01:30:26.199 --> 01:30:30.079 a low level on behalf of the government program at 1411 01:30:30.079 --> 01:30:34.720 the Air Force or of the CIA, and they might 1412 01:30:35.720 --> 01:30:37.359 it's not out of the question, but they could just 1413 01:30:38.359 --> 01:30:42.119 call back one or two of the industry companies, the 1414 01:30:42.159 --> 01:30:47.880 defense industry companies like Pateel, Lockheed, Martin North through Grumman 1415 01:30:47.960 --> 01:30:51.920 and so forth. Tirw is gone, Hughes is gone, that's 1416 01:30:52.039 --> 01:30:55.359 Radon now and so forth. So you got North there, 1417 01:30:55.359 --> 01:30:58.840 Grumman and Raydon replacing Hughes and Tirw, et cetera. So 1418 01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:02.079 they out of the question for them to bring back one, 1419 01:31:02.279 --> 01:31:05.479 maybe two companies and give them a contract. It's just 1420 01:31:05.640 --> 01:31:08.760 that you have to understand the way you've done acknowledged 1421 01:31:08.760 --> 01:31:13.800 Special Access program security infrastructure. It does not permit hundreds 1422 01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:19.159 of people being cleared at anyone organization. It only permits 1423 01:31:19.359 --> 01:31:20.560 roughly a handful. 1424 01:31:21.640 --> 01:31:24.439 Okay, okay, okay, you're going to have two or. 1425 01:31:24.479 --> 01:31:27.800 Three or four government guys plus the gatekeepers. That's another 1426 01:31:27.880 --> 01:31:31.159 thing Sammy got wrong. He's a young guy. He's not 1427 01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:34.279 thirty years. He doesn't have thirty years of experience that 1428 01:31:34.399 --> 01:31:37.439 I have. Didn't work at these classified programs like I 1429 01:31:37.560 --> 01:31:42.960 did with hal and Column and Bigelow and the other 1430 01:31:43.039 --> 01:31:47.880 Bigelow Aerospace Advanced based Study staff. There's other Jacques V. 1431 01:31:47.920 --> 01:31:51.640 Lee was on the contract. So was John Schusler, who 1432 01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:56.039 was the former founding co founding a member of Muffine 1433 01:31:56.079 --> 01:31:59.880 who later became one of the international directors that oh, 1434 01:31:59.920 --> 01:32:02.520 he became the international director right after wald Andris died. 1435 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:05.439 He was a founding international director of move On. So 1436 01:32:05.920 --> 01:32:12.319 we were under contract. And it's just it's just not 1437 01:32:12.560 --> 01:32:18.960 out of the question that the legacy programs. See, we 1438 01:32:19.119 --> 01:32:24.039 got to understand Sammy doesn't grasp that there's a distinction 1439 01:32:24.439 --> 01:32:28.439 the legacy programs jargon. Those two words refer to the 1440 01:32:28.520 --> 01:32:34.039 aerospace defense industry. Okay, it doesn't refer to the government offices. 1441 01:32:34.159 --> 01:32:40.079 Because government program offices and intelligence and in the military 1442 01:32:40.359 --> 01:32:44.520 or slash Department of Defense, Department of War, they get reorganized. 1443 01:32:44.840 --> 01:32:49.560 They constantly get reorganized. You've got guys cycling in, cycling 1444 01:32:49.760 --> 01:32:54.199 out your military personnel. The military leadership of these program 1445 01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:59.119 offices cycle in on either two to four year basis. 1446 01:33:00.119 --> 01:33:04.039 Your lower ranking officers cycle in roughly on a two 1447 01:33:04.119 --> 01:33:06.560 year basis, very rarely four years. Some of them do, 1448 01:33:06.720 --> 01:33:08.840 but not all of them. But it's the top level 1449 01:33:08.880 --> 01:33:12.600 guys who are usually your generals and admirals, Okay, but 1450 01:33:12.760 --> 01:33:16.760 they have working with them. So you've got the organizational tree. 1451 01:33:17.239 --> 01:33:21.359 So there's the top box is the military commander and 1452 01:33:21.960 --> 01:33:25.760 coming out shooting out from his box is the civilian commander, 1453 01:33:26.520 --> 01:33:30.039 the GS fifteen guy. Usually at the general level, you're 1454 01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:33.479 going to have his SES level guys a senior executive 1455 01:33:33.520 --> 01:33:36.960 service in the intelligence community, it's an SIS for Senior 1456 01:33:37.039 --> 01:33:40.479 Intelligence Service. And for guys like Jay Stratton. Jay moved 1457 01:33:40.560 --> 01:33:44.720 from DIA to the Office of Naval Intelligence after the 1458 01:33:44.800 --> 01:33:48.439 app or sometime around thereabouts, and he worked at the 1459 01:33:48.520 --> 01:33:51.600 O and I, and so he couldn't go into SIS there. 1460 01:33:52.239 --> 01:33:56.640 Their nomenclature for the equivalent of an SIS is DSL 1461 01:33:57.680 --> 01:34:02.000 Defense Intelligence Senior Leader. And he and that's so he 1462 01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:04.600 was a one. He went from GS fifteen to one 1463 01:34:04.840 --> 01:34:06.800 d I s L one, that's the equivalent of a 1464 01:34:06.840 --> 01:34:09.640 one star. And then he got promoted before he retired. 1465 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:12.000 Sometime before he retired, he got promoted to d I 1466 01:34:12.199 --> 01:34:14.600 s L two, which is equivalent of a two star. Okay, 1467 01:34:16.880 --> 01:34:20.000 so I have to remind you that what Sammy's young, 1468 01:34:20.239 --> 01:34:24.439 he's green, he's not. He's not. He doesn't have a 1469 01:34:24.520 --> 01:34:27.119 PhD in anything or a masters. I don't know if 1470 01:34:27.159 --> 01:34:30.720 he has a bachelor's degree. The point is he doesn't 1471 01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:34.399 know these distinctions. And the distinction is program offices in 1472 01:34:34.479 --> 01:34:37.439 the government, They constantly change. If you have if you 1473 01:34:37.479 --> 01:34:40.520 have a defense operation, they're going to have a general 1474 01:34:40.600 --> 01:34:43.479 or an admiral in charge. That general and admirals usually 1475 01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:47.279 cycled in and cycled out every two to four years. 1476 01:34:47.359 --> 01:34:51.159 That general or admiral leader, and then the guys cycled 1477 01:34:51.159 --> 01:34:53.680 probably every couple of years. They move on. Okay, say 1478 01:34:53.880 --> 01:34:57.199 the CIA, Okay, now you have the civilian guys that 1479 01:34:57.319 --> 01:35:01.359 I mentioned earlier. They are permanent. Those guys stay on 1480 01:35:01.800 --> 01:35:06.439 unless they make a decision to transfer to another military 1481 01:35:06.520 --> 01:35:09.840 service or another program office within the service they're working in. 1482 01:35:10.239 --> 01:35:13.000 So those guys are more or less permanent. Okay, you 1483 01:35:13.119 --> 01:35:18.640 have retirements, you've got deaths, You've got Ronald Reagan firing everybody. 1484 01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:21.520 Now you have Trump firing everybody. So these guys will go, 1485 01:35:21.680 --> 01:35:24.479 come and go to but not nearly as frequent as 1486 01:35:24.520 --> 01:35:27.960 the military leadership. That is not the legacy program. That 1487 01:35:28.199 --> 01:35:31.560 that's why we call it the legacy program. That refers 1488 01:35:31.600 --> 01:35:37.079 to the aerospace defense companies that had contracts with the 1489 01:35:37.159 --> 01:35:41.560 CI and Air Force to do UAP studies and handle 1490 01:35:41.640 --> 01:35:47.760 the crash retrievals and probably most likely often an Yeah, okay, 1491 01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:51.000 So to say there's the government side, of that, So 1492 01:35:51.079 --> 01:35:53.359 we don't have a name for that. Yeah, I don't 1493 01:35:53.399 --> 01:35:55.520 know what you would call right now. I would just 1494 01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:58.640 stick with the compartmentalized program, is what they are. 1495 01:35:59.159 --> 01:36:04.199 Sure, yes, And by the way, and folks, we will 1496 01:36:04.279 --> 01:36:06.560 we'll definitely get get to some questions. We have a 1497 01:36:06.640 --> 01:36:10.439 heart out with mister Davis and in uh in forty minutes, 1498 01:36:10.720 --> 01:36:12.199 but we will, we will. 1499 01:36:12.600 --> 01:36:13.479 Do our best. 1500 01:36:15.079 --> 01:36:20.399 What have Ross Coulthart recently alluded that Lou Alexondo was 1501 01:36:21.039 --> 01:36:24.960 out of the Legacy program and as far as what 1502 01:36:25.159 --> 01:36:27.800 you know when he was an as APP, do you 1503 01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:29.760 think Lou Alexander. 1504 01:36:29.680 --> 01:36:32.439 Okay your audio quit again, but I heard you. I 1505 01:36:32.479 --> 01:36:36.279 could read your lips, Okay. Yeah, Lou Alexandro was not 1506 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:38.479 part of the as APP. He was kind of peripheral 1507 01:36:38.560 --> 01:36:42.119 out there. Uh, he was part of the A Tip 1508 01:36:42.279 --> 01:36:45.720 was the nickname for the ass APP. Every every classified 1509 01:36:45.880 --> 01:36:47.079 code word will. 1510 01:36:46.960 --> 01:36:47.680 Have a nickname. 1511 01:36:47.960 --> 01:36:50.760 You use the nickname to protect the code word, to 1512 01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:52.960 keep the code word from getting leaked out in the public. 1513 01:36:53.079 --> 01:36:56.640 You can leak out a nickname and nobody's going to 1514 01:36:56.720 --> 01:37:00.399 know what it means, so you can't trace it anything. 1515 01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:04.479 So the A tip was the nickname for OS app. 1516 01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:09.119 Then when OSAP ended, Jay Stratton picked it up, ran 1517 01:37:09.319 --> 01:37:13.720 with the nickname and renamed it A tip, renamed what 1518 01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:16.359 would have been the ass app as the A Tip, 1519 01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:19.960 and he was in charge. But Lou played a big 1520 01:37:20.039 --> 01:37:22.319 supporting role in that. I think he was a portfolio 1521 01:37:22.479 --> 01:37:25.920 manager somewhere in there. I think, I'm sure and certain 1522 01:37:26.000 --> 01:37:29.000 actually that Jay is going to clarify that in his 1523 01:37:29.840 --> 01:37:35.880 memory memoirs. So he was involved with the post asapp 1524 01:37:36.239 --> 01:37:39.680 a tip that Jay Stratton ran, and it was not funded. 1525 01:37:40.439 --> 01:37:43.680 It was unborrowed money, and not much got done because 1526 01:37:43.720 --> 01:37:45.920 there wasn't much money to borrow. So it was just 1527 01:37:46.000 --> 01:37:50.119 an existence humming along. And then Jay struck dirt when 1528 01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:53.039 the Chief of Naval Operations came to him and said, 1529 01:37:53.640 --> 01:37:58.119 I want you to stand up the UAP Task Force 1530 01:37:58.760 --> 01:38:01.399 and its mission is going to be a whole of 1531 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:05.239 government operation. You are going to have the power to 1532 01:38:05.359 --> 01:38:09.159 reach out to every branch of the federal government, including 1533 01:38:10.079 --> 01:38:13.520 the National Force Service and the Department of Agriculture even 1534 01:38:14.399 --> 01:38:22.920 and the Federal Communications FCC and so and Yes, so 1535 01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:24.399 you're going to reach out to all of them, and 1536 01:38:24.520 --> 01:38:29.560 you're going to get them to dedicate Liaison Officer or 1537 01:38:29.640 --> 01:38:36.239 two and maybe not funding won't be able to get funding. 1538 01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:39.520 He didn't get funding either. The idea was that he 1539 01:38:39.720 --> 01:38:46.560 would be given services in kind, so the labor of 1540 01:38:46.720 --> 01:38:51.159 the technical support people, logisticals support people, security support people 1541 01:38:51.479 --> 01:38:56.000 would be provided for free to his task force. So 1542 01:38:56.239 --> 01:38:58.239 because he didn't have a budget, he wasn't given any 1543 01:38:58.279 --> 01:39:03.039 money from by a congressional appropriation or via some carve 1544 01:39:03.079 --> 01:39:06.560 out from the O and I budget. So he basically 1545 01:39:06.760 --> 01:39:09.199 would be given and this is my understanding, so they 1546 01:39:09.359 --> 01:39:14.439 basically would be given services in kind to establish a 1547 01:39:14.600 --> 01:39:19.199 whole of government operation. The core group of members in 1548 01:39:19.319 --> 01:39:23.199 the task force numbered forty and there's approximately one thousand 1549 01:39:23.279 --> 01:39:27.520 of them in the periphery on the outside. But they 1550 01:39:27.600 --> 01:39:32.279 supported the program through for various reasons, doing various things. 1551 01:39:32.760 --> 01:39:34.479 And I don't have all the picture of that because 1552 01:39:34.479 --> 01:39:38.119 I wasn't in the middle. Hal and I were the 1553 01:39:38.199 --> 01:39:43.000 science advisors, science consultants. Travis Taylor of the secret of 1554 01:39:43.039 --> 01:39:47.319 Skinwalker Ranch was Jay's chief scientist. And I know the 1555 01:39:47.399 --> 01:39:49.199 names of other people that were involved, but I'm not 1556 01:39:49.319 --> 01:39:51.560 liberty to reveal them because they're still in government in 1557 01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:56.840 sensitive positions in government. So anyway, I do know some 1558 01:39:57.000 --> 01:39:59.800 of the task Force members who were out in the periphery, 1559 01:40:00.640 --> 01:40:02.479 and I do know a couple of them, and so 1560 01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:07.520 that's that's how that was laid out. And I believe 1561 01:40:07.640 --> 01:40:10.399 Jay is going to really lay that out. And Lou 1562 01:40:10.720 --> 01:40:13.840 was in that group. I think he was not peripheral. 1563 01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:17.039 I think he was probably somewhere close, if not in 1564 01:40:17.119 --> 01:40:20.880 the forty probably on the surface of those forty people. 1565 01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:26.319 He provided valuable resources to the task Force. He connected 1566 01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:31.079 Jay to important people programs, and he opened doors that 1567 01:40:31.359 --> 01:40:35.000 Jay needed help opening where j couldn't open them, Lou 1568 01:40:35.159 --> 01:40:37.439 was there to open them. So Lou was, you know, 1569 01:40:37.479 --> 01:40:41.039 an intelligence officer. Then he had a counterintelligence portfolio, so 1570 01:40:41.279 --> 01:40:43.720 I can imagine now counter Okay, I got to give 1571 01:40:43.720 --> 01:40:46.800 a lesson to you folks. There's a difference between counterintelligence 1572 01:40:46.800 --> 01:40:50.079 and intelligence. Counterintelligence has the word intelligence in it, but 1573 01:40:50.199 --> 01:40:55.920 it is not an intelligence program or operation. So the 1574 01:40:56.000 --> 01:41:01.000 word counterintelligence really means law enforcement. And those guys in 1575 01:41:01.119 --> 01:41:06.239 counterintelligence law enforcement always get always tell everybody else where 1576 01:41:06.439 --> 01:41:10.279 in intelligence because that's what they want to believe. Now, 1577 01:41:10.600 --> 01:41:12.119 they don't want everybody to believe it, they want to 1578 01:41:12.119 --> 01:41:15.439 believe it. So anyway, the intelligence operations is collecting information 1579 01:41:16.039 --> 01:41:19.680 that's enemy information, that secret and you want to collect it, 1580 01:41:19.840 --> 01:41:22.399 analyze it, process it, sent it up the chain of 1581 01:41:22.439 --> 01:41:27.159 command for action items, and that's the distinction between those. 1582 01:41:27.199 --> 01:41:30.239 So Lou worked on both sides of that aisle. But 1583 01:41:30.359 --> 01:41:32.640 he had a big counter intelligent portfolio. So he did 1584 01:41:32.800 --> 01:41:35.960 have an a tip portfolio. So do you I know 1585 01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:38.760 what it was specifically, it didn't matter. Holl And I 1586 01:41:38.880 --> 01:41:41.199 had to report to him, were reported to Jay and Lou. 1587 01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:44.720 Lou was great. Lou was fundamental. You couldn't do without Lou. 1588 01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:48.840 That's my that's my uh little little jingle there. 1589 01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:52.560 So do you think it's possible Lou was actually uh 1590 01:41:53.199 --> 01:41:56.760 running counterintelligence for the Legacy Program and was kind of 1591 01:41:56.840 --> 01:41:58.800 bridging things between. 1592 01:42:01.079 --> 01:42:03.840 Yeah, it's very possible, but he couldn't tell how or 1593 01:42:03.880 --> 01:42:05.800 I that because we didn't have SHO need to know 1594 01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:08.720 for that. That's the law enforcement thing and they don't 1595 01:42:08.800 --> 01:42:12.399 like talking to guys like us about that kind of thing. 1596 01:42:12.520 --> 01:42:14.479 I like to keep that, you know, in the shadows. 1597 01:42:14.560 --> 01:42:15.279 That's what do you think? 1598 01:42:15.560 --> 01:42:17.920 Do you think it's possible, Jay Stratton, do you think 1599 01:42:17.920 --> 01:42:20.880 it's possible? Jay Stratton was actually part of the Legacy Program. 1600 01:42:21.520 --> 01:42:25.840 I don't you know. I don't think so, I don't 1601 01:42:25.880 --> 01:42:26.279 think so. 1602 01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:27.119 Uh. 1603 01:42:28.159 --> 01:42:31.560 I know talking I know from talking with him during 1604 01:42:31.600 --> 01:42:34.479 the offsp and during the A tip and during his 1605 01:42:34.680 --> 01:42:39.880 task force, that I gave him enough information that he 1606 01:42:40.119 --> 01:42:42.880 used to track down who the gatekeeper is. And that's 1607 01:42:42.920 --> 01:42:46.600 another thing. Sammy Gerb confused all of the audience in that. 1608 01:42:47.640 --> 01:42:50.640 Uh what was that freedom of secrecy or something? 1609 01:42:51.159 --> 01:42:55.840 I'm not sure. Anyway, I know what, I'm glad on. 1610 01:42:55.920 --> 01:42:58.159 You by mentioning somebody else's podcast. 1611 01:42:58.239 --> 01:43:01.119 I don't know, a lot of people are doing really 1612 01:43:01.159 --> 01:43:01.640 great work. 1613 01:43:01.760 --> 01:43:08.760 So okay, good, okay. So Sammy, uh oh crap, I 1614 01:43:08.800 --> 01:43:10.960 always skip a beat memory wise, and oh, come to me. 1615 01:43:11.039 --> 01:43:17.920 But anyway, Sammy got that wrong about Lou. Lou was 1616 01:43:18.399 --> 01:43:21.399 about Jay? So uh well, I think he was talking 1617 01:43:21.399 --> 01:43:26.640 about Lou too, but uh uh Jay, okay. So the 1618 01:43:27.359 --> 01:43:31.279 gatekeepers that's where Sammy fell down. Sammy was naming programs 1619 01:43:31.439 --> 01:43:34.640 off program offices, the office of this, the office of that, 1620 01:43:35.119 --> 01:43:37.399 the director of this, the director of that, uh and 1621 01:43:37.479 --> 01:43:39.560 so forth. He said, those are the gatekeepers. That's what 1622 01:43:39.720 --> 01:43:42.680 he's implying. Were the gatekeepers. They are not the gatekeepers, 1623 01:43:43.439 --> 01:43:46.479 they are the program offices. He got it wrong. You 1624 01:43:46.600 --> 01:43:50.279 want to target them, yes, absolutely, But they're not the gatekeepers. 1625 01:43:50.319 --> 01:43:54.119 The gatekeepers are. Here's the clue. Here's the hint. Hold 1626 01:43:54.199 --> 01:43:59.640 on to your chair. The counterintelligence officers. So those officers 1627 01:43:59.680 --> 01:44:03.640 are fit. They have counterintelligence officials in the Air Force 1628 01:44:03.680 --> 01:44:08.479 Office's Special Investigations. They're the criminal investigative service for the 1629 01:44:08.520 --> 01:44:12.119 Air Force. They are also the counter intelligence service for 1630 01:44:12.199 --> 01:44:16.159 the Air Force. Let's just say that they are the 1631 01:44:16.359 --> 01:44:19.399 important gatekeeper since the Air Force is executive agent to 1632 01:44:19.560 --> 01:44:25.159 the CIA's UFO Crash Retrieval program. Okay, So Jay found 1633 01:44:25.239 --> 01:44:28.960 out who the gatekeepers were during the task Force bet 1634 01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:33.640 COVID hit. He made an arrangement to speak to the 1635 01:44:33.720 --> 01:44:39.600 gatekeeper once again. That gatekeeper was AFOSI, Special Agent in 1636 01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:45.840 charge protecting Wave Done acknowledged special access programs in his 1637 01:44:46.039 --> 01:44:49.479 portfolio that included all of them, probably also special access 1638 01:44:49.520 --> 01:44:53.640 programs also probably hidden SCI programs. There are also hidden 1639 01:44:53.760 --> 01:44:56.760 SCI programs. So anyway, Jay found out who that was 1640 01:44:56.880 --> 01:45:00.359 through channels. He've learned that person's office and name. They 1641 01:45:00.479 --> 01:45:05.479 made an arrangement to meet in a skiff and talk 1642 01:45:05.520 --> 01:45:09.600 about how Jay can get read in and COVID struck, 1643 01:45:09.680 --> 01:45:12.680 and that canceled all of it. You couldn't do classified 1644 01:45:12.760 --> 01:45:17.720 work on your laptop at home. I think they could 1645 01:45:17.720 --> 01:45:20.640 take a government laptop home, and they're no longer connected 1646 01:45:20.720 --> 01:45:24.800 to the secured intrendnet system supernet, so he couldn't do 1647 01:45:24.880 --> 01:45:26.880 that work. They couldn't meet in the skiff. Everything was 1648 01:45:26.880 --> 01:45:29.359 shut down during that period. That guy ended up moving 1649 01:45:29.439 --> 01:45:32.439 on during the COVID period. Jay distin't reconnected with him 1650 01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:35.239 for a lack of time, and he's now winding down 1651 01:45:35.319 --> 01:45:38.439 toward retirement at the time. So that's what I wanted 1652 01:45:38.479 --> 01:45:41.119 to point out. Who the gatekeepers were. I do know 1653 01:45:41.319 --> 01:45:46.079 that when hal Told answered Sammy's question during that podcast, 1654 01:45:46.880 --> 01:45:51.800 he mentioned DHS finding the gatekeeper, and yes, that's true. 1655 01:45:52.439 --> 01:45:57.159 That's the DHS's security chief and his deputy. Those two 1656 01:45:57.279 --> 01:46:01.880 guys took the briefing information that how big Aelo and 1657 01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:07.560 keller Her gave to Jane Loot at the DHS to 1658 01:46:07.840 --> 01:46:12.640 justify standing up the ASAPH in DHS, and it was 1659 01:46:12.720 --> 01:46:16.319 going to be in the Directorate of Intelligence. I'm sorry, wrong, wrong, 1660 01:46:16.560 --> 01:46:19.560 Director of Science and Technology. Sorry. That was led by 1661 01:46:20.439 --> 01:46:24.119 doctor Tara O'Toole. So she led the Directorate of Science 1662 01:46:24.159 --> 01:46:27.399 and Technology within the Department of Homeland Security. Well it 1663 01:46:27.600 --> 01:46:33.399 was the department's two chief security officers, and I'm not 1664 01:46:33.439 --> 01:46:35.920 going to name them. Uh So that guy and his 1665 01:46:36.079 --> 01:46:39.720 deputy got all that information from us, not me, but 1666 01:46:40.079 --> 01:46:45.800 us collectively with me not being in the picture. That 1667 01:46:45.960 --> 01:46:49.119 was probably under that temporary SAP called ConA blue that 1668 01:46:49.279 --> 01:46:52.680 was like a framework. It was a oh it was 1669 01:46:53.640 --> 01:46:57.079 a temporary s A P. How gave it the correct name? 1670 01:46:57.439 --> 01:46:59.399 Uh name proposed s A P. I think it was 1671 01:46:59.479 --> 01:47:04.960 p SAP. So anyway, so those two guys figured out 1672 01:47:05.119 --> 01:47:10.399 from our data, which was house investigations, my investigations, and 1673 01:47:10.920 --> 01:47:15.560 they found the gatekeeper at AFOURI. They contacted the gatekeeper 1674 01:47:15.800 --> 01:47:19.359 and the gatekeeper confirmed that yes, he is the guy 1675 01:47:19.760 --> 01:47:25.039 protecting the very programs they are seeking, the crash retrieval programs. 1676 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:31.560 So they so DHS Security found the gatekeeper at afour SI. 1677 01:47:32.039 --> 01:47:35.399 So I've given AFO SI a big hit in the 1678 01:47:35.479 --> 01:47:37.760 head here. They're probably going to get pissed off. They're 1679 01:47:37.760 --> 01:47:40.760 probably going to get somebody to do a Rick Dodie 1680 01:47:40.840 --> 01:47:43.079 on me. You know, I'm like the Paul Benowitz, and 1681 01:47:43.079 --> 01:47:46.399 they're going to kill my reputation and credibility. They're going 1682 01:47:46.479 --> 01:47:50.000 to do black bag operations. I'm heavily armed here in Texas. 1683 01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:56.319 We have free firearms without a license in the public visible, 1684 01:47:56.640 --> 01:47:58.479 and we have King of the Castle. I'll be happy 1685 01:47:58.520 --> 01:47:59.439 to kill any of them. 1686 01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:04.920 And that and that, and that leads me to this question, Eric, 1687 01:48:05.239 --> 01:48:09.479 have have you ever been threatened or anyone tried to 1688 01:48:09.600 --> 01:48:10.279 intimidate you? 1689 01:48:10.720 --> 01:48:13.039 We've heard about the retaliation, uh that. 1690 01:48:13.359 --> 01:48:15.279 And I know I know all of this to be 1691 01:48:15.359 --> 01:48:17.760 true because I've personally spoken to a bunch of these 1692 01:48:17.800 --> 01:48:21.079 whistleblowers and they've gone into a great, great detail as 1693 01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:24.880 far as the retaliation that they've experienced. Have you, Eric Davis, 1694 01:48:25.000 --> 01:48:28.600 ever experienced retaliation from anyone in the Legacy program or 1695 01:48:28.640 --> 01:48:30.279 elsewhere talking about this time? 1696 01:48:31.600 --> 01:48:32.039 Negative? 1697 01:48:32.840 --> 01:48:33.000 OK? 1698 01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:36.199 And why do you think but why do you think 1699 01:48:36.279 --> 01:48:36.800 I that? 1700 01:48:37.199 --> 01:48:40.479 Well, I might be too dangerous for them because of 1701 01:48:40.560 --> 01:48:43.800 where I'm located. And also they they're probably well aware 1702 01:48:43.800 --> 01:48:49.439 of Texas firearm laws. But yeah, the real serious reason, Yeah, 1703 01:48:49.760 --> 01:48:52.800 the serious reason. I think the number one reason is 1704 01:48:52.840 --> 01:48:57.640 that I had done special work under contract of the 1705 01:48:57.680 --> 01:49:01.039 Air Force as an employee of another contractor I won't 1706 01:49:01.119 --> 01:49:03.239 name him, and I was in I was stationed in 1707 01:49:03.319 --> 01:49:07.600 Tokyo and Konsan, South Korea, which is where the eight 1708 01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:10.680 fighter wing is still stationed there in South Korea on 1709 01:49:10.760 --> 01:49:13.399 the southwest side of the peninsula, right on the edge 1710 01:49:13.399 --> 01:49:16.159 of the Yellow See the eastern edge of the Yellow See. 1711 01:49:17.560 --> 01:49:21.880 So I had been brought I wasn't there for military reasons. 1712 01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:25.960 I was there for more mundane scientific and satellite technology 1713 01:49:26.039 --> 01:49:31.920 based reasons. I did get thrown into clandestine covert situation 1714 01:49:32.720 --> 01:49:39.039 concerning the presidential election in Taiwan in early nineteen ninety six, 1715 01:49:39.720 --> 01:49:43.520 and China and North Korea were doing things to the 1716 01:49:43.640 --> 01:49:48.199 US military on the South Korean Peninsula, and I was 1717 01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:52.960 brought in to help investigate and clear up or find 1718 01:49:53.079 --> 01:49:57.840 the origin of some threat actors and threat actions. So 1719 01:49:58.640 --> 01:50:02.760 the government knows that, well, I wasn't an employee of 1720 01:50:02.760 --> 01:50:06.560 an intelligence agency, not by any means, okay uh, And 1721 01:50:06.720 --> 01:50:09.920 so they probably know that record I have, and they 1722 01:50:10.000 --> 01:50:11.239 know what I'm capable of doing, and. 1723 01:50:11.239 --> 01:50:13.680 They know that I live in and they know they 1724 01:50:13.760 --> 01:50:16.560 know that you you live in Texas. And I'm going 1725 01:50:16.600 --> 01:50:19.680 to ask you one last question, one last question, getting 1726 01:50:19.720 --> 01:50:24.359 tongue tied before we get to some viewer questions here, 1727 01:50:24.640 --> 01:50:28.760 did any agency or contractor ever require you to sign 1728 01:50:29.000 --> 01:50:32.640 a non disclosure agreement specifically tied to UAP. 1729 01:50:35.199 --> 01:50:38.039 When we got our security clearances for the afs APP, 1730 01:50:38.199 --> 01:50:42.479 we had to sign the standard for Standard Form three 1731 01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:48.680 twelve three one two. That's the UH secrecy NDA for 1732 01:50:49.399 --> 01:50:51.680 the United States government for anything that has to do 1733 01:50:51.760 --> 01:50:57.239 with classified information, secret, top secret, TSSCI, and SAP as well. 1734 01:50:57.640 --> 01:50:59.800 So that's the only m DA I signed was a 1735 01:50:59.840 --> 01:51:03.640 government one. I have never been asked to sign a 1736 01:51:03.840 --> 01:51:09.800 corporate NDA. But how had had an ASAPP subcontract through Bass, 1737 01:51:10.479 --> 01:51:15.680 so Bass was providing us our security officer, and they 1738 01:51:15.760 --> 01:51:20.399 were responsible for facilitating getting our security clearances UH set 1739 01:51:20.479 --> 01:51:23.119 up and established at the d I A with Jim 1740 01:51:23.239 --> 01:51:27.359 mccatsky's UH Defense Warning Office three Security Officer, or it 1741 01:51:27.439 --> 01:51:31.119 might have been the whole agency Security Office. So in 1742 01:51:31.239 --> 01:51:33.319 that case, how put Up would have signed some sort 1743 01:51:33.359 --> 01:51:36.399 of NDA with with Big Oo Space Advanced Space Studies. 1744 01:51:36.760 --> 01:51:41.840 He is the owner and uh UH CEO and president 1745 01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:45.520 of VerTech would have signed that with Big Oil Space, 1746 01:51:45.960 --> 01:51:48.920 not me. I was I was his chief scientist and 1747 01:51:49.000 --> 01:51:51.520 senior research businessist. So I didn't. I don't. I don't 1748 01:51:51.560 --> 01:51:55.640 need to be signing documents for business transactions. 1749 01:51:55.399 --> 01:51:58.520 Okay, let's get let's get to some some audience questions. 1750 01:51:58.920 --> 01:52:03.680 Folks, anyone that that is a superchat donor they all 1751 01:52:04.079 --> 01:52:06.840 get priorities because of course we're trying to keep the 1752 01:52:06.920 --> 01:52:10.239 lights on here and we actually have a very generous 1753 01:52:10.600 --> 01:52:15.640 superchat from a Disclosure Tonight. This is really an outstanding question, 1754 01:52:16.720 --> 01:52:19.560 and thank you very much for asking this. Thanks Matt 1755 01:52:19.720 --> 01:52:22.399 and doctor Davis for a great interview. Question are you 1756 01:52:22.560 --> 01:52:25.720 And let me preface this, there are a ton of questions, 1757 01:52:25.800 --> 01:52:28.159 so as best you can try to keep your answers 1758 01:52:28.399 --> 01:52:31.399 short so we can try to get to everyone anyway. 1759 01:52:31.479 --> 01:52:36.560 Disclosure Tonight asks are you aware of any hitchhiker incidents 1760 01:52:36.840 --> 01:52:39.600 that resulted in the death of the family member. 1761 01:52:40.880 --> 01:52:41.840 No, I'm not aware of any. 1762 01:52:42.720 --> 01:52:47.239 Okay, okay, let's see here. Rob Miltronto, thanks again for 1763 01:52:47.279 --> 01:52:51.600 the superchat. Really really appreciate it. Let's see a question here, 1764 01:52:52.079 --> 01:52:55.000 ask if he has any knowledge of if Gary Reid 1765 01:52:55.239 --> 01:52:59.720 left his executive secretary role at AOI MSG when it 1766 01:53:00.199 --> 01:53:05.560 expanded and was renamed to the Pentagon Bullshit Factory known 1767 01:53:05.600 --> 01:53:05.960 as Zero. 1768 01:53:07.159 --> 01:53:09.239 I have no knowledge of that. I wasn't involved in 1769 01:53:09.279 --> 01:53:09.760 the middle of that. 1770 01:53:10.520 --> 01:53:14.399 Okay, okay, let's see just for a cat. 1771 01:53:14.640 --> 01:53:19.159 There's a giant electro magnetic anomaly around where the South 1772 01:53:19.239 --> 01:53:24.039 Atlantic anomaly is, and that's around where Brazil Choloris attacks 1773 01:53:24.079 --> 01:53:25.600 took place, or any of those related. 1774 01:53:26.079 --> 01:53:28.720 I have no knowledge of that. That's a geophysics thing, 1775 01:53:28.760 --> 01:53:31.079 and I don't do geophysics. I know about the South 1776 01:53:31.159 --> 01:53:36.640 Atlantic Anomaly as a lay person. I don't study the 1777 01:53:37.199 --> 01:53:40.479 geophysics technical literature or read it for any reason, because 1778 01:53:40.479 --> 01:53:43.720 that's out of my discipline. I've out of my professional discipline. 1779 01:53:43.880 --> 01:53:47.199 So I can't comment on that particular question because I 1780 01:53:47.399 --> 01:53:47.800 just don't know. 1781 01:53:49.000 --> 01:53:51.920 Okay, here's another one from a good friend of mine 1782 01:53:51.960 --> 01:53:55.359 in the show, David Smethurst, Has Eric ever heard of 1783 01:53:55.640 --> 01:53:59.600 US government having communication or agreements with NHI? 1784 01:54:00.159 --> 01:54:02.079 And what about China and Russia. 1785 01:54:02.640 --> 01:54:05.239 I can't speak about China and Russia because I've never 1786 01:54:05.359 --> 01:54:08.960 seen intelligence on what they had in that to answer 1787 01:54:09.039 --> 01:54:13.199 that question, but I only have been made aware that 1788 01:54:13.319 --> 01:54:18.399 there was a US government communication with NHIS at the 1789 01:54:19.319 --> 01:54:22.880 Holloman Air Force Base incident of nineteen sixty four, and 1790 01:54:22.960 --> 01:54:26.359 that information was given to me by President George Herbert 1791 01:54:26.399 --> 01:54:30.960 Walker Bush when he was long into retirement back in 1792 01:54:31.039 --> 01:54:33.079 two thousand and three in two thousand and five. 1793 01:54:34.359 --> 01:54:38.199 Okay, let's see here are UFOs is from just a Cat? 1794 01:54:38.279 --> 01:54:40.640 Are UFOs UAP? Oh wait, no, sorry, I just asked that. 1795 01:54:40.760 --> 01:54:44.520 One last track here from Phoenix Wizard. The most plausible 1796 01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:49.239 propulsion system behind triangle shaped UAP advanced human aerospace technology 1797 01:54:49.319 --> 01:54:52.479 is a field propulsion or something non human. In your opinion, 1798 01:54:52.720 --> 01:54:53.920 it's going to be non human. 1799 01:54:54.119 --> 01:54:58.039 But you know, the laws of physics are pretty darn good. 1800 01:54:58.359 --> 01:55:00.439 We still have some theories of physics that haven't been 1801 01:55:00.479 --> 01:55:03.359 turned into logs yet. That would be Einstein's general theory 1802 01:55:03.359 --> 01:55:08.560 of relativity and quantum Fueld theory. Those theories have predicted 1803 01:55:08.760 --> 01:55:11.239 faster and light propulsion by way of warping space to 1804 01:55:11.319 --> 01:55:14.319 produce a worm a traversible wormhole, and a warp drive. 1805 01:55:14.720 --> 01:55:17.319 And just to make it very short, traversible wormholes are 1806 01:55:17.359 --> 01:55:20.000 not black holes. There's no model of a black hole 1807 01:55:20.079 --> 01:55:27.800 that's traversible in that Einstein rosen Bridge picture of wormholes 1808 01:55:27.840 --> 01:55:30.720 that is a blocked wormal there's a singularity that will 1809 01:55:30.760 --> 01:55:33.279 destroy you, so you don't go through it and come 1810 01:55:33.279 --> 01:55:35.680 out the other side. So a traversible wormhole does not 1811 01:55:35.800 --> 01:55:38.720 have a singularity, and it does not have an event horizon, 1812 01:55:38.960 --> 01:55:42.439 so you can go in and go out without troubles. Okay, 1813 01:55:42.840 --> 01:55:46.000 so we've got the theory for that, but the problem 1814 01:55:46.199 --> 01:55:51.920 is the mathematics shows that the energy required to produce 1815 01:55:52.000 --> 01:55:55.800 those kinds of space worms are beyond our capability. So 1816 01:55:55.960 --> 01:55:58.760 then that leaves open the question do we need new physics. No, 1817 01:55:59.439 --> 01:56:04.560 it just means we haven't engineered. We haven't advanced our 1818 01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:09.079 state of engineering, material science, the engineering behind quantum vacuum 1819 01:56:09.199 --> 01:56:15.920 energies and so forth, haven't advanced to a state where 1820 01:56:16.000 --> 01:56:18.760 we can address that and be confident at an applied 1821 01:56:18.800 --> 01:56:22.960 physics level that we can engineer it. And so it's 1822 01:56:23.039 --> 01:56:25.920 just too far in advance. It might actually be something 1823 01:56:26.000 --> 01:56:29.640 different too. It might be something that's hiding in plain sight. 1824 01:56:29.800 --> 01:56:32.239 We already have the physics for it, but we have 1825 01:56:32.520 --> 01:56:35.479 it might be recent and new. It comes out of 1826 01:56:35.600 --> 01:56:38.720 quantum theory. It's already based on an existing theory of 1827 01:56:38.760 --> 01:56:42.920 physics that's very successful for over one hundred years. That'd 1828 01:56:42.960 --> 01:56:45.560 be one hundred and one years now. That'd be quantum mechanics. 1829 01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:49.880 Quantum field theory was officially discovered in nineteen fifty. It 1830 01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:52.520 was quantum electro dynamics was the first one for rich 1831 01:56:52.640 --> 01:56:55.479 Rich refinement, and I think John Wheeler got the Nobel 1832 01:56:55.560 --> 01:56:59.439 Prize in physics for so that they are so new 1833 01:56:59.640 --> 01:57:03.159 relatively on the scale of human lifetimes that we haven't 1834 01:57:03.920 --> 01:57:09.840 pushed them far enough to find new solutions that could 1835 01:57:09.840 --> 01:57:13.399 get us excited. So I just do know that there's 1836 01:57:13.479 --> 01:57:16.760 now coming out of quantum theory in the way of 1837 01:57:16.840 --> 01:57:23.199 quantum entanglement and teleportation aspects that they're that the theoreticians 1838 01:57:23.239 --> 01:57:29.880 are mimicking, mimicking using quantum theory spacetime curvature or gravity, 1839 01:57:30.239 --> 01:57:34.000 So that might be the alternative path instead of going 1840 01:57:34.039 --> 01:57:38.079 through generalativity. We want to mimic what generalativity does by 1841 01:57:38.960 --> 01:57:43.560 tinkering with quantum entanglement. That might solve our stupendous energy 1842 01:57:43.640 --> 01:57:47.119 requirement for making wormholes and warp drives. And that energy 1843 01:57:47.199 --> 01:57:48.520 is negative energy by the way. 1844 01:57:49.079 --> 01:57:51.399 Okay, so yeah, let's let's move on. So I appreciate that, 1845 01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:54.760 appreciate that answer. This is from heath Jet. Really appreciate 1846 01:57:54.840 --> 01:57:58.239 the super chat. Also, e fra M eighty three, thanks 1847 01:57:58.239 --> 01:58:01.119 for the superchat. So heath Jet asks you've mentioned that 1848 01:58:01.239 --> 01:58:05.119 you don't believe Bob the Bob Lazar story that you 1849 01:58:05.199 --> 01:58:07.760 spoke to a woman's supervisor that said he was just 1850 01:58:07.840 --> 01:58:11.199 a technician at Area fifty one. Can he briefly briefly 1851 01:58:11.239 --> 01:58:11.960 elaborate on that. 1852 01:58:12.279 --> 01:58:14.880 Now, that was a colleague of mine and John Alexanders 1853 01:58:14.960 --> 01:58:20.560 who worked at Los Alamo's and knew Lazarre was a 1854 01:58:20.680 --> 01:58:25.720 Kirk Mayor employee. He was hired as an hourly paid 1855 01:58:26.199 --> 01:58:30.720 radiation health monitor. It was this gentleman who is now 1856 01:58:30.880 --> 01:58:33.680 in an assistant living facility. He's very old. His wife 1857 01:58:33.720 --> 01:58:39.359 died a couple of years ago. He saw George. Now 1858 01:58:39.479 --> 01:58:41.439 he had a home in Indian Springs, a mobile home 1859 01:58:41.520 --> 01:58:45.199 because he was his part of his job was to 1860 01:58:45.359 --> 01:58:50.279 run programs a Los Alamos programs at Area fifty one, 1861 01:58:50.920 --> 01:58:54.199 so he was home in Indian Springs. Saw the KLAS 1862 01:58:54.359 --> 01:58:58.359 TV broadcast of George Knapp's interviews with Bob Lazarre and 1863 01:58:58.439 --> 01:59:01.159 his investigations in a Lazarre strip, and he thought, oh 1864 01:59:01.239 --> 01:59:05.479 my god, this guy is leaking Area fifty one classified information. 1865 01:59:05.760 --> 01:59:09.720 He's going to be bounced on by the Counterintelligence Corps 1866 01:59:09.760 --> 01:59:13.159 that lives in Las Vegas and that surrounds Area fifty 1867 01:59:13.199 --> 01:59:16.720 one in and outside, and the DOJ is going to 1868 01:59:16.800 --> 01:59:18.439 charge him. They're going to diet him, They're going to 1869 01:59:18.560 --> 01:59:23.800 nail him and that did not happen. So he found 1870 01:59:23.880 --> 01:59:26.720 out from being on the bay, being on the National 1871 01:59:26.800 --> 01:59:29.880 Laboratory who was our work for? And he found out 1872 01:59:30.000 --> 01:59:32.600 he worked for Kirk Mayor. Kirk Mayor is a logistical 1873 01:59:32.680 --> 01:59:36.880 support company to Los Alama's national app and a radiation 1874 01:59:37.039 --> 01:59:39.479 health monitor is a guy that checks in and he 1875 01:59:39.600 --> 01:59:43.600 checks out the radiation badges to Los Alamo's personnel that 1876 01:59:43.760 --> 01:59:47.560 work around radioactive materials. And the same is truth for 1877 01:59:47.720 --> 01:59:51.239 some people at Area fifty one. So he doesn't know 1878 01:59:51.359 --> 01:59:53.319 that they work at Area fifty one because people on 1879 01:59:53.399 --> 01:59:56.760 those Janet flights to Las Vegas, they don't carry signs 1880 01:59:56.840 --> 01:59:59.279 that say I work at Area fifty one, and their 1881 01:59:59.439 --> 02:00:01.960 name badge is that probably don't even have a name badge. 1882 02:00:01.960 --> 02:00:05.319 If they have one or a lanyard, they probably have 1883 02:00:05.399 --> 02:00:07.479 to take it off before they even land in Vegas. 1884 02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:10.960 That because that will identify their their who they are, 1885 02:00:11.119 --> 02:00:14.039 their photograph, and where they work and it won't say 1886 02:00:14.079 --> 02:00:16.359 Area fifty one on it, but it will give something 1887 02:00:16.399 --> 02:00:20.000 away probably. Okay, So fifty one is really Air Force 1888 02:00:20.119 --> 02:00:24.800 Test Center Detachment three and their field security officers, their 1889 02:00:24.840 --> 02:00:28.479 program security officers, and our friend John Alexander and my 1890 02:00:28.600 --> 02:00:34.520 friend have no record of Lazaarre going to Area fifty one, 1891 02:00:34.920 --> 02:00:38.600 and his job did not have a security clearance requirement. 1892 02:00:39.439 --> 02:00:43.000 He did not qualify for security clearance because he ended 1893 02:00:43.079 --> 02:00:46.399 up he and his wife, first wife, got a home 1894 02:00:46.439 --> 02:00:49.960 in Vegas. They didn't make their home payments. Home got 1895 02:00:51.000 --> 02:00:54.439 repossessed by the bank under foreclosure. Foreclosed is the word 1896 02:00:54.479 --> 02:00:56.680 I was looking for. He got involved in running a 1897 02:00:56.720 --> 02:00:59.840 prostitution ring in Vegas because in that county, that's one 1898 02:00:59.840 --> 02:01:02.640 of the two counties or so, I don't think it's 1899 02:01:02.680 --> 02:01:05.520 more than two counties in Nevada where prostitution is illegal. 1900 02:01:05.880 --> 02:01:08.840 So he got arrested state felony, went to prison, got 1901 02:01:08.920 --> 02:01:12.720 convicted of that felony, went to prison. Then after all that, 1902 02:01:13.119 --> 02:01:16.760 he's now in the Upper Midwest and he's sending explosives 1903 02:01:16.840 --> 02:01:20.039 and explosive paraphernalia through the US mail to customers that 1904 02:01:20.199 --> 02:01:23.039 want to buy that stuff from him. That's a federal felony. 1905 02:01:23.279 --> 02:01:27.520 Got in trouble for that, and so people people with 1906 02:01:27.960 --> 02:01:32.560 people with foreclosures on when he went on two home foreclosures, 1907 02:01:32.640 --> 02:01:37.079 multiple car repossessions because he'd get a car and didn't 1908 02:01:37.079 --> 02:01:41.399 make the first car payment sure and qualify for security 1909 02:01:41.479 --> 02:01:44.840 clearances in that with that kind of history and record, 1910 02:01:45.239 --> 02:01:49.119 he's not trustworthy. So a radiation health minor, he's paid 1911 02:01:49.199 --> 02:01:52.039 like five dollars an hour. I think he made seven 1912 02:01:52.119 --> 02:01:54.600 by the time he got booted out of Los Alamo's 1913 02:01:54.840 --> 02:01:57.840 got a kirk Meyer. Kirk Mayor is what m A 1914 02:01:58.159 --> 02:01:58.600 Y E R. 1915 02:01:58.960 --> 02:01:59.000 So. 1916 02:01:59.359 --> 02:02:02.720 Kirk Mayor is where he worked. And my friend Bill 1917 02:02:02.800 --> 02:02:05.319 is the one that knew his supervisor metver. She pulled 1918 02:02:05.399 --> 02:02:08.800 up his personnel record and showed what he doesn't have 1919 02:02:09.079 --> 02:02:10.520 a college degree of any kind. 1920 02:02:11.399 --> 02:02:12.239 Understood he's not a. 1921 02:02:12.279 --> 02:02:15.720 Physicist, and he works as a as a radiation health monitor, 1922 02:02:15.760 --> 02:02:17.239 and we're paying him five bucks an hour. 1923 02:02:17.439 --> 02:02:20.079 Somebody there, Yeah, okay, let's let's move on. 1924 02:02:20.159 --> 02:02:20.720 If you don't mind. 1925 02:02:20.800 --> 02:02:25.319 This is a from Chris Chris Devout, thanks for the superchat. 1926 02:02:25.359 --> 02:02:28.560 Doctor Davis is nineteen ninety four through nineteen ninety seven, 1927 02:02:29.039 --> 02:02:33.960 Perry Kaminski the right window to study legacy program SAP records, 1928 02:02:34.079 --> 02:02:38.760 ousd A and t SAPCO, SAPPOC waived carve out programs 1929 02:02:38.840 --> 02:02:45.159 and contractor access control that time period. So mouthful, I 1930 02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:47.680 don't know, okay, never heard of him. Okay, got it 1931 02:02:47.720 --> 02:02:51.399 all right, let's see here, Let's see a great show. 1932 02:02:51.600 --> 02:02:54.239 Thank you very much for the super chat. Is Lani's 1933 02:02:54.279 --> 02:02:57.319 amora legit? And is it possible I could get an 1934 02:02:57.359 --> 02:03:02.680 interview with Davis. He's looking for me to connect you 1935 02:03:03.000 --> 02:03:06.840 and I'll do that after. Is Lani samoral zamora? Legit? 1936 02:03:07.079 --> 02:03:07.119 Is? 1937 02:03:07.840 --> 02:03:12.560 Is what a landing report UAP landing report from the fifties? 1938 02:03:12.600 --> 02:03:13.239 What are your thoughts? 1939 02:03:14.359 --> 02:03:16.840 Yeah? One thousand percent legit. But the expert on that 1940 02:03:17.000 --> 02:03:17.640 is jacques Ville. 1941 02:03:19.000 --> 02:03:26.079 Okay, okay, great, let's see here scrolling through. There are 1942 02:03:26.199 --> 02:03:30.000 a bunch let's see this is Oh I already have 1943 02:03:30.119 --> 02:03:34.920 that one. Okay, sorry, catch back up here. Question why 1944 02:03:35.039 --> 02:03:38.640 did the legacy UAPRE program get shut down in nineteen 1945 02:03:39.079 --> 02:03:40.640 eighty nine? And who told you this? 1946 02:03:42.199 --> 02:03:43.399 Well again, I think. 1947 02:03:45.000 --> 02:03:46.840 I think somebody already you can explain that. 1948 02:03:47.000 --> 02:03:49.840 Yeah, it got shut down because of a lack of 1949 02:03:49.920 --> 02:03:53.239 progress in the reverse engineering programs by all the companies 1950 02:03:53.279 --> 02:03:56.000 that were contracted and to do work on that. And 1951 02:03:56.199 --> 02:03:58.880 who told me that was the senior vice president of 1952 02:03:58.920 --> 02:04:03.399 one of those companies who was working on the crash 1953 02:04:03.479 --> 02:04:07.319 retrieval program after graduate school, after he got his doctorate, 1954 02:04:07.560 --> 02:04:09.880 and got hired to work for that company. So he 1955 02:04:10.039 --> 02:04:14.079 worked a good chunk of his early career on the 1956 02:04:14.159 --> 02:04:18.279 crash retrieval program, and as a senior VP in the future, 1957 02:04:18.319 --> 02:04:21.600 which would have been during the ASAPP era, he still 1958 02:04:21.760 --> 02:04:25.359 read in on the aspects of that that were still 1959 02:04:25.479 --> 02:04:29.159 operating at the low level, what was going on after 1960 02:04:29.319 --> 02:04:35.199 the eighty nine cancelation. The programs were put into semi hibernation. 1961 02:04:35.560 --> 02:04:39.800 That's the word I would put it. The aerospace companies 1962 02:04:39.840 --> 02:04:42.520 didn't have contracts, but I did say earlier in this 1963 02:04:42.680 --> 02:04:46.039 broadcast or this interview that they would be resurrected every 1964 02:04:46.119 --> 02:04:48.920 now and then to see if they had the ability 1965 02:04:48.960 --> 02:04:52.000 to figure it out. Okay, so that would be every 1966 02:04:52.079 --> 02:04:54.479 once every ten years, according to what that senior VP 1967 02:04:54.720 --> 02:04:57.159 told us at the as APP and that would be 1968 02:04:57.199 --> 02:04:59.560 help put off in myself. He might have also set 1969 02:04:59.640 --> 02:05:02.800 that to kill her and Big and Big a little bit. 1970 02:05:02.840 --> 02:05:04.640 I didn't know. I just know how, and I know 1971 02:05:04.880 --> 02:05:07.000 because we were in the most we had the most 1972 02:05:07.039 --> 02:05:11.520 frequent contact with that senior VP for several years actually 1973 02:05:11.720 --> 02:05:12.840 even after he retired. 1974 02:05:14.039 --> 02:05:15.119 So uh. 1975 02:05:15.720 --> 02:05:20.520 But the government side of that is the program offices, 1976 02:05:20.920 --> 02:05:25.239 and the program offices could have closed down the sub 1977 02:05:25.319 --> 02:05:29.840 compartments could have been terminated. Compartments could have been terminated, 1978 02:05:29.880 --> 02:05:31.600 but there's going to be a number of them that 1979 02:05:31.760 --> 02:05:35.520 are kept going at a minimal level, at the level 1980 02:05:35.680 --> 02:05:40.960 of being in cyber semi hibernation, their their quasi or 1981 02:05:41.039 --> 02:05:44.680 semi hibernation state. There's some employees there. They're doing some 1982 02:05:44.800 --> 02:05:47.439 mental stuff. They might be working with the National Labs, 1983 02:05:47.680 --> 02:05:50.880 and every once in a while they might let out 1984 02:05:50.920 --> 02:05:53.720 a contractor with one of the companies to do something. 1985 02:05:54.640 --> 02:05:57.199 Okay, question from Cortez zero. 1986 02:05:57.520 --> 02:06:02.079 Jacques Valle recently spoke on communication established on a continuous 1987 02:06:02.199 --> 02:06:06.560 basis in a secure facility with NHI over twenty years 1988 02:06:06.600 --> 02:06:10.680 ago through a sophisticated process, as he called it. Can 1989 02:06:10.760 --> 02:06:13.319 you add to any any Do you have any information 1990 02:06:13.399 --> 02:06:14.399 to add on top of that? 1991 02:06:15.399 --> 02:06:17.279 Where did that come from? Was that one of the 1992 02:06:17.319 --> 02:06:18.600 forbidden science volumes? 1993 02:06:18.680 --> 02:06:20.760 I it must must have been. He didn't specify it, 1994 02:06:20.800 --> 02:06:21.279 But yeah. 1995 02:06:22.079 --> 02:06:24.720 Okay, I just don't remember that. I'm not disagreeing with 1996 02:06:24.840 --> 02:06:27.680 Jacques or disputing it. I just don't recall the details. 1997 02:06:28.000 --> 02:06:30.520 It's been ages since I've read those and I don't 1998 02:06:31.239 --> 02:06:35.319 That doesn't come to mind, So I can't answer that. Question. 1999 02:06:36.239 --> 02:06:40.680 Okay, let's see here. Could some of this is from Phoenix? 2000 02:06:41.279 --> 02:06:45.600 Could some of could some UAP be interfaces rather than 2001 02:06:45.720 --> 02:06:49.760 vehicles in the normal sense? Manifestations or projections from a 2002 02:06:49.800 --> 02:06:50.600 deeper reality? 2003 02:06:51.800 --> 02:06:53.960 Negative, they're physical. 2004 02:06:54.720 --> 02:06:55.920 They are definitely physical. 2005 02:06:56.119 --> 02:06:59.520 Okay. Have you ever been in a craft or touched one? 2006 02:07:00.640 --> 02:07:03.479 Nope? I wish I was. I wish I did. I 2007 02:07:03.560 --> 02:07:05.960 wish I had same with how put off, same with 2008 02:07:06.039 --> 02:07:08.960 Bigelow and kill her and everybody else at Bath We 2009 02:07:09.159 --> 02:07:13.119 all were aiming for that. I don't believe. Well, I 2010 02:07:13.159 --> 02:07:15.439 don't want to put words in Jay Stratton's mouth. Let's 2011 02:07:15.479 --> 02:07:17.439 wait for his memoir to come out. Maybe he'll make 2012 02:07:17.479 --> 02:07:18.079 a big reveal. 2013 02:07:19.479 --> 02:07:23.000 Okay, all right, we have another great question and very 2014 02:07:23.079 --> 02:07:29.119 generous super chat from Disclosure tonight a really great show. Bam, Matt, Matt, 2015 02:07:29.159 --> 02:07:32.119 do you believe doctor Eric Davis is a super genius 2016 02:07:32.520 --> 02:07:36.920 and deserves a presidential order to remove the impedance from 2017 02:07:37.000 --> 02:07:39.359 Form three twelve to deliver the truth? 2018 02:07:39.600 --> 02:07:43.439 You're clearly a super genius. He's definitely having. 2019 02:07:43.319 --> 02:07:45.479 A super genius, not by many means. If I was, 2020 02:07:45.520 --> 02:07:48.439 I'd probably be richer than Stephen Hockey was when he died. 2021 02:07:49.760 --> 02:07:52.239 Kept born is a multi millionaire by the way, so 2022 02:07:52.439 --> 02:07:54.399 that makes them a super genius. You've got to be 2023 02:07:54.439 --> 02:07:56.840 a super genius to use your physics to make millions 2024 02:07:56.880 --> 02:08:00.680 of dollars man, So anyway, I appreciate that. Thank you 2025 02:08:00.960 --> 02:08:09.079 for whoever asked that question from Phoenix, so I forgot 2026 02:08:09.119 --> 02:08:11.840 what's the rest of her question besides that? Just bring 2027 02:08:12.479 --> 02:08:13.600 repe The question is. 2028 02:08:15.720 --> 02:08:17.920 Do you believe doctor Eric Davis is a super genius, 2029 02:08:17.920 --> 02:08:22.159 which clearly I do, despite maybe he may disagree with me, 2030 02:08:22.279 --> 02:08:26.880 but I can spot super geniuses a mile away. Does 2031 02:08:26.960 --> 02:08:31.600 he deserve a presidential order? Do you deserve a presidential 2032 02:08:31.760 --> 02:08:35.800 order to remove the impedance of Form three twelve to 2033 02:08:35.920 --> 02:08:37.720 deliver the rest of what you know? 2034 02:08:39.159 --> 02:08:42.720 That's the question I want to answer to. And I 2035 02:08:42.840 --> 02:08:45.399 understand it better now after you said it a second time. 2036 02:08:46.279 --> 02:08:48.439 That would be nice. Now the s F three twelve 2037 02:08:48.520 --> 02:08:52.439 allows me to talk to Congress. So the Disclosure Foundation 2038 02:08:52.840 --> 02:08:58.279 broke through the black wall of the security training that 2039 02:08:58.399 --> 02:09:01.600 has been drilled into me about three times every year 2040 02:09:01.600 --> 02:09:04.920 at the Aerospace Corporation and twice every year at NASA, 2041 02:09:05.359 --> 02:09:07.960 and have gone through and said you got to readers 2042 02:09:08.000 --> 02:09:10.720 three twelve read the whole fricking thing, because there's a 2043 02:09:10.760 --> 02:09:13.680 part of it that says you are not forbidden. It 2044 02:09:13.840 --> 02:09:16.680 is not illegal for you to go to Congress with 2045 02:09:16.800 --> 02:09:20.159 classified information if you're concerned about fraud, waste, or abuse. 2046 02:09:20.600 --> 02:09:23.159 That's my understanding. I just can't go to Congress just 2047 02:09:23.239 --> 02:09:26.720 to freely give them, matter of factly, just to shoot 2048 02:09:26.760 --> 02:09:30.039 the breeze classified information I've been read in on or 2049 02:09:30.119 --> 02:09:32.600 been involved with. No. I have to have a reason, 2050 02:09:32.680 --> 02:09:35.600 and that reason is provided in the s F three twelve. 2051 02:09:35.960 --> 02:09:38.680 So the s F three twelve I would need a 2052 02:09:38.760 --> 02:09:42.039 waiver for I would need President Trump to issue a 2053 02:09:42.199 --> 02:09:45.800 directive that gives me a waiver to go outside the 2054 02:09:45.920 --> 02:09:49.880 three to forget the three twelve. It doesn't exist, and 2055 02:09:50.039 --> 02:09:57.039 I can blab everything. But for now I can talk 2056 02:09:57.079 --> 02:10:00.520 to Congress. I could give them sensitive information. Now I 2057 02:10:00.560 --> 02:10:03.000 don't have classified information to give them. I have some 2058 02:10:03.680 --> 02:10:08.239 I do, actually I do, but most of it is proprietary, 2059 02:10:08.840 --> 02:10:14.279 and back in the ASAP era it would have been 2060 02:10:16.119 --> 02:10:19.960 for official use only level so official only yeah, and 2061 02:10:20.079 --> 02:10:22.319 that and that no longer exists. Now it's controlled and 2062 02:10:22.359 --> 02:10:27.239 unclassified information that makes it immune from FOYA. But it's 2063 02:10:27.239 --> 02:10:31.239 the company owned information, not government it's company owned. It's 2064 02:10:31.279 --> 02:10:33.920 what I gave the government and since I generated it 2065 02:10:34.359 --> 02:10:40.159 in EarthTech, Uh it it Foya can't touch it, Boy 2066 02:10:40.239 --> 02:10:43.600 can't touch it. It's protected by ERTHTEX intellectual property rights. 2067 02:10:44.239 --> 02:10:47.319 What what percentage? Let let me ask it this way. 2068 02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:53.560 The you know, the your whole knowledge, your class you're classified? Well, 2069 02:10:53.720 --> 02:10:55.800 how should I put this your entire knowledge of the 2070 02:10:55.920 --> 02:11:00.840 UAP issue? What percentage? And and this is including this 2071 02:11:00.920 --> 02:11:06.119 would be classified information? What percentage and unclassified? Obviously? What 2072 02:11:06.359 --> 02:11:10.119 percentage do you think that you've publicly been able to 2073 02:11:10.159 --> 02:11:13.039 speak about? Is it five percent of your total knowledge? 2074 02:11:13.159 --> 02:11:16.239 Is it fifty percent? Like if if Trump were to 2075 02:11:16.720 --> 02:11:18.600 release this, how much information? 2076 02:11:19.760 --> 02:11:21.560 Yeah, could you could you put back? 2077 02:11:21.720 --> 02:11:22.479 Could you put out there? 2078 02:11:22.479 --> 02:11:22.960 Would you say? 2079 02:11:23.720 --> 02:11:25.920 How much have you been able to publicly speak about? 2080 02:11:27.239 --> 02:11:33.640 Zero percent? Classified? The rest is under adopts or allowance. 2081 02:11:34.279 --> 02:11:37.239 I wasn't. I didn't formally talk to DOPTSR and get 2082 02:11:37.279 --> 02:11:39.800 a written permission. No, this is what I know from 2083 02:11:39.840 --> 02:11:44.560 my security training. So what the adopt you guardrails allowed 2084 02:11:44.640 --> 02:11:47.560 me to say? And it's based on the proprietary information 2085 02:11:47.720 --> 02:11:51.319 I developed at Ortech for the offs app. 2086 02:11:53.079 --> 02:11:57.479 Okay, gotcha? Uh what let's see here scroll. 2087 02:11:57.600 --> 02:12:00.560 Well, there's only one piece of classified and information that 2088 02:12:00.680 --> 02:12:04.640 I have not revealed, and that's still kept quiet. I 2089 02:12:04.720 --> 02:12:08.600 didn't generate it as a classified information. The government customer 2090 02:12:08.680 --> 02:12:14.239 classified it, and so the unclassified version remains unclassified in 2091 02:12:14.319 --> 02:12:17.119 my possession and in the er Tech possession. But that's 2092 02:12:17.319 --> 02:12:18.000 where it stays. 2093 02:12:18.720 --> 02:12:23.079 Okay, got it? If this is a great screen screen 2094 02:12:23.199 --> 02:12:25.239 name crackhead three three zero. 2095 02:12:25.960 --> 02:12:28.840 Did Eric Davis ever Yeah, that's a good one. 2096 02:12:29.319 --> 02:12:34.399 Did Eric Davis ever investigate the work of Kenneth Ratford, shoulders, 2097 02:12:35.199 --> 02:12:36.600 coworker of how put Off. 2098 02:12:38.560 --> 02:12:39.640 I've never heard of that guy. 2099 02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:45.800 I know who that is. I have no idea, no idea. 2100 02:12:45.920 --> 02:12:50.039 I know the employees that have worked for House since 2101 02:12:50.119 --> 02:12:53.640 nineteen eighty five, all the way up until we had 2102 02:12:53.720 --> 02:12:57.359 to shut down Urtech. Now Ertech is only existing by 2103 02:12:57.520 --> 02:13:01.239 name only. It is still in corporate, but there's no laboratory, 2104 02:13:01.319 --> 02:13:07.479 no employees anymore. I'm Hal's volunteer senior science advisor now 2105 02:13:07.880 --> 02:13:10.479 because we've been friends and colleagues since I got hired 2106 02:13:11.159 --> 02:13:14.840 in July of ninety six, so I was his employee 2107 02:13:15.279 --> 02:13:19.520 for fifteen years. So that guy's name has never come up. 2108 02:13:19.960 --> 02:13:22.520 Never saw that guy working at r Tech. Nobody by 2109 02:13:22.600 --> 02:13:24.279 that name. We had a small staff. 2110 02:13:25.319 --> 02:13:29.520 Okay, let's see this is I can't tell, but thank 2111 02:13:29.520 --> 02:13:31.840 you for the super chat favorite UA, What is your 2112 02:13:31.920 --> 02:13:35.600 favorite UAP case from Doctor Davis or one that you 2113 02:13:35.680 --> 02:13:36.680 think is a hoax? 2114 02:13:37.079 --> 02:13:39.119 We'll just say, what is your favorite UAP case? 2115 02:13:40.159 --> 02:13:45.439 Oh, my favorite UAP case? Okay, ah, boy, I would 2116 02:13:45.520 --> 02:13:51.039 have to say the Roswell case is my favorite. It's great. 2117 02:13:51.840 --> 02:13:55.359 It's a great example of government tripping over itself to 2118 02:13:55.479 --> 02:13:58.199 hide it in plane sight. 2119 02:13:58.960 --> 02:14:01.279 Yeah. Yeah, you know. 2120 02:14:01.600 --> 02:14:07.239 General Roger Raimies bullshit ra wind balloon target shredded debris 2121 02:14:07.800 --> 02:14:11.920 at the feet of Major Marcel in Ramie's office. The 2122 02:14:12.000 --> 02:14:14.399 press wasn't allowed into the office. They had to stand 2123 02:14:14.439 --> 02:14:17.319 in the doorway to ask questions and take photos. Then 2124 02:14:17.439 --> 02:14:20.239 you got the follow up to that to the Clinton administration, 2125 02:14:20.520 --> 02:14:27.760 where that Air Force Captain McAndrew issued the Mogul Project 2126 02:14:27.840 --> 02:14:31.079 Mobile Balloon Explanation for the Roswell crash, and then the 2127 02:14:31.159 --> 02:14:35.800 separate second volume that invoked nineteen fifty three era crash 2128 02:14:35.880 --> 02:14:39.000 test dummies to explain away the alien bodies that were 2129 02:14:39.000 --> 02:14:41.880 recovered on July eighth of nineteen forty seven. 2130 02:14:42.960 --> 02:14:46.640 Okay, okay, and even Colonel. 2131 02:14:46.399 --> 02:14:51.640 John Alexander had a hearty laugh and puzzle extreme puzzlement 2132 02:14:52.159 --> 02:14:56.319 over the government, over the Air Force tripping over itself 2133 02:14:56.399 --> 02:14:58.800 to give that bullshit disinformation story. 2134 02:14:59.520 --> 02:15:03.640 Okay, So so speaking of bullshit disinformation, Uh, there's doctor 2135 02:15:03.680 --> 02:15:08.279 Sean Kirkpatrick, who ran the Pentagon's ARROW office, the All 2136 02:15:08.319 --> 02:15:12.159 Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, which I prefer quite often on 2137 02:15:12.239 --> 02:15:15.039 this show to the Pentagon's in house bullshit factory. What 2138 02:15:15.159 --> 02:15:20.119 are your thoughts on doctor Sean Kirkpatrick? And should Representative 2139 02:15:20.159 --> 02:15:23.119 Anna Polina A Luna and others from the UAP Caucus 2140 02:15:23.560 --> 02:15:27.840 believe what should they? Should they even trust ARROW at 2141 02:15:27.920 --> 02:15:31.520 this at this point, even though it's under new leadership 2142 02:15:31.600 --> 02:15:33.399 under from doctor John Kaslowski. 2143 02:15:34.560 --> 02:15:40.000 Okay, John Koslowski used to work for Jay's UAP traft 2144 02:15:40.279 --> 02:15:42.560 task force. He was one of the funny insiders. 2145 02:15:43.039 --> 02:15:45.039 Yeah really so yeah? 2146 02:15:45.279 --> 02:15:48.720 So should you have talked to John at length? Jay 2147 02:15:48.760 --> 02:15:50.920 has brought John up to speed on this topic and 2148 02:15:51.319 --> 02:15:53.520 all that. But you know, John already knew it because 2149 02:15:53.640 --> 02:15:56.640 he worked on the task work. So I can't say 2150 02:15:57.479 --> 02:16:02.000 anything bad about that now because it's under John's leadership, 2151 02:16:02.159 --> 02:16:04.760 so things should change. But I don't know what kind 2152 02:16:04.840 --> 02:16:07.800 of pressure John is under from his two bosses, the 2153 02:16:07.920 --> 02:16:10.840 under Secretary Defense for Intelligence and the Office of the 2154 02:16:10.920 --> 02:16:13.760 Director of National Intelligence. And as you now know, we 2155 02:16:13.920 --> 02:16:16.960 have two clowns that have been running the ODN. I 2156 02:16:17.119 --> 02:16:19.960 the first clown quit and the second one is now 2157 02:16:20.079 --> 02:16:27.159 going to accuse everybody of forging their mortgage loan paperwork 2158 02:16:27.319 --> 02:16:31.720 or something like that so he can fire them. So 2159 02:16:31.880 --> 02:16:34.120 we got two clowns in a row that have been 2160 02:16:34.200 --> 02:16:39.319 running od and I John could have political this is 2161 02:16:39.360 --> 02:16:43.159 the political job, and he's not in a political office. 2162 02:16:43.239 --> 02:16:45.600 He's not in a political function running a political function. 2163 02:16:46.639 --> 02:16:49.159 I don't know how they're doing. But I have met 2164 02:16:49.239 --> 02:16:52.520 with some of the folks that worked with Sean who 2165 02:16:52.639 --> 02:16:57.280 still worked there under John, and they're great people. They're patriotic, 2166 02:16:57.719 --> 02:17:01.000 they are very enthusiastic about the UA topic. But I 2167 02:17:01.079 --> 02:17:04.639 think they're going to be constrained by the mission objectives 2168 02:17:04.840 --> 02:17:10.440 of that office and can't go outside of it. I 2169 02:17:10.520 --> 02:17:13.440 don't know what they can or if they can do 2170 02:17:13.600 --> 02:17:18.399 anything about the crash retrieval programs. I really don't Kirkpatrick. 2171 02:17:18.840 --> 02:17:21.559 I met in person, supposed to be for about an 2172 02:17:21.600 --> 02:17:25.200 hour or so, briefing in a skiff at the DIA's 2173 02:17:25.639 --> 02:17:28.959 Missile and Space Intelligence Center at the red Stone Arsenal 2174 02:17:29.040 --> 02:17:30.680 when I was working for NASA there at the red 2175 02:17:30.760 --> 02:17:35.000 Stone Arsenal on the space nuclear Propulsion program that I 2176 02:17:35.120 --> 02:17:41.760 supported from twenty nineteen until my job got terminated due 2177 02:17:41.799 --> 02:17:47.280 to a contract termination in nearly at mid twenty twenty four. 2178 02:17:47.920 --> 02:17:55.040 So Kirkpatrick is a great and brilliant and highly decorated physicist. 2179 02:17:56.000 --> 02:17:58.479 Lasers was a big thing for him, So he's a 2180 02:17:58.559 --> 02:18:00.799 laser physicist. But he's done and other stuff in the 2181 02:18:00.840 --> 02:18:05.559 areas of spectroscopy and optics and I think quantum optics. 2182 02:18:05.600 --> 02:18:09.079 So he's done brilliant work, no doubt about it. But 2183 02:18:10.399 --> 02:18:15.120 as the leader of Arrow, he was a bent ultimate 2184 02:18:15.680 --> 02:18:20.200 disinformation officer. Dave Grush had to work with him or 2185 02:18:20.280 --> 02:18:24.280 interact with him on some intelligence operation back in twenty fifteen, 2186 02:18:24.639 --> 02:18:27.239 and I brought this up with Dave and Dave said, yeah, 2187 02:18:27.360 --> 02:18:31.920 he had a he's like pig pen and peanuts, Like 2188 02:18:32.040 --> 02:18:34.000 you get too close, you're going to smell the stink. 2189 02:18:34.360 --> 02:18:37.280 You know, he's having dirtiness and steak around here. He said, 2190 02:18:37.319 --> 02:18:41.120 you can't trust Kirkpatrick. Kirkpatrick's not a team player and 2191 02:18:41.280 --> 02:18:45.799 he's deceitful, and so he lied to Congress in volume one. 2192 02:18:45.879 --> 02:18:48.639 He literally liked to Congress, and then he lied to 2193 02:18:48.719 --> 02:18:51.479 the public and his public speeches about the OSAP and 2194 02:18:51.559 --> 02:18:54.040 the people involved with the ASAPP, and he made us 2195 02:18:54.079 --> 02:18:56.680 all look like a cabal that big Oelod put together 2196 02:18:56.760 --> 02:19:00.600 in the nineties. And we've been maror trotting on our 2197 02:19:00.680 --> 02:19:05.600 white horses, pronouncing and promoting the crash retrieval story. And 2198 02:19:06.239 --> 02:19:10.280 that's something that a nefarious CIA analyst who's now long 2199 02:19:10.399 --> 02:19:13.879 retired used to accuse us of. We used to be 2200 02:19:14.000 --> 02:19:19.280 accused by him, Ronald S. Pendolfhi, of being thieves and 2201 02:19:19.440 --> 02:19:25.079 crooks and loans and liars, were manipulating global billionaires into 2202 02:19:25.120 --> 02:19:29.959 giving us their money to continue research on UAP when 2203 02:19:30.159 --> 02:19:33.360 farthest was when the further was the truth, because they 2204 02:19:33.479 --> 02:19:38.559 approached us. The thing is they recruited us, not us 2205 02:19:39.520 --> 02:19:43.079 manipulating them. They recruited us to work for them. And 2206 02:19:43.159 --> 02:19:48.879 there's two of them involved. And so Kirkpatrick was parroting 2207 02:19:49.479 --> 02:19:53.600 that same language that Pendulphie was always using during the nineties, 2208 02:19:53.639 --> 02:19:57.239 twenty and twenty tens, and I almost wondered whether the 2209 02:19:57.280 --> 02:20:06.079 two slept together. So so I think I don't want to. 2210 02:20:06.239 --> 02:20:09.479 I don't want to say anything about today's ERRO because 2211 02:20:09.520 --> 02:20:11.799 I don't know what they're doing. I'm not read into it, 2212 02:20:11.840 --> 02:20:15.200 I'm not privy to it. I want I think they 2213 02:20:15.239 --> 02:20:17.120 should be allowed to do the work they're supposed to 2214 02:20:17.120 --> 02:20:20.040 be doing. I just don't know how in depth and 2215 02:20:20.120 --> 02:20:22.120 thorough they're going. I do know they've got to be 2216 02:20:22.239 --> 02:20:26.879 involved with scientific instrumentation of UAPs and get data gathering. 2217 02:20:27.479 --> 02:20:29.879 I just don't know how much money they've got, how 2218 02:20:29.959 --> 02:20:34.280 much they can spend beyond their labor costs, for their 2219 02:20:34.360 --> 02:20:38.479 personnel and facility costs and security costs. I just don't 2220 02:20:38.559 --> 02:20:43.000 know how successful they'll be. There's no reason why Luna's 2221 02:20:43.120 --> 02:20:46.399 task force can't interact with arrows. I think she should. 2222 02:20:46.520 --> 02:20:51.040 Sure when Kirkpatrick was in power over there or in 2223 02:20:51.399 --> 02:20:55.319 his job as director, it probably would have been best 2224 02:20:55.399 --> 02:20:59.559 to advise her task force to carry butcher knives, machetes 2225 02:20:59.719 --> 02:21:02.639 and with them when they go meet for Patrick. 2226 02:21:04.200 --> 02:21:07.399 And and do you think I mean, obviously Kirkpatrick has 2227 02:21:07.440 --> 02:21:10.559 been caught caught lying, and I have it on good 2228 02:21:10.600 --> 02:21:13.840 information that the government has actually given him a legal 2229 02:21:14.000 --> 02:21:17.559 waiver that will protect him from any kind of criminal 2230 02:21:18.000 --> 02:21:19.920 prosecution for lying to Congress. 2231 02:21:20.479 --> 02:21:20.600 Uh. 2232 02:21:21.159 --> 02:21:26.479 And it's a very informed, very informed thing. But do 2233 02:21:26.600 --> 02:21:32.760 you it seems odd that Sean Kirkpatrick would exit Arrow, 2234 02:21:33.959 --> 02:21:37.920 continue to work for the government and continue to parrot 2235 02:21:38.120 --> 02:21:42.200 this disinformation. Do you think it's possible he was given 2236 02:21:42.360 --> 02:21:46.000 top cover and when he exited, they said, here's your 2237 02:21:46.040 --> 02:21:48.079 pot of gold. We're going to give you, but we 2238 02:21:48.239 --> 02:21:50.559 need you to do a couple of things, one of 2239 02:21:50.639 --> 02:21:53.600 which is lie to the Wall Street Journal, lie to 2240 02:21:53.719 --> 02:21:57.680 the public, and to continue to sow disinformation on this topic. 2241 02:21:57.959 --> 02:22:02.120 Do you think that this Kirkpatrick's continued behavior, and even 2242 02:22:02.200 --> 02:22:06.959 Tim Phillips for that matter, they could possibly be running 2243 02:22:07.000 --> 02:22:07.319 an op. 2244 02:22:09.559 --> 02:22:13.719 No, they're not running an op. They're encouraging Kirkpatrick to 2245 02:22:13.840 --> 02:22:18.159 do that. So they're encouraging him. Yeah, they're encouraging him 2246 02:22:18.200 --> 02:22:21.319 to do that. That'll be the op on their side, 2247 02:22:21.559 --> 02:22:24.840 on the government side. But for Kirkpatrick, he's not getting paid. 2248 02:22:25.280 --> 02:22:29.200 He's not getting paid for that. This is something they're 2249 02:22:29.280 --> 02:22:29.959 encouraging him to do. 2250 02:22:30.840 --> 02:22:34.280 So what's in it for Kirkpatrick to continue to throw 2251 02:22:34.399 --> 02:22:37.120 himself under the bus in terms of opinion? 2252 02:22:37.319 --> 02:22:40.319 There's got to be some kind of some kind of 2253 02:22:40.399 --> 02:22:41.040 quid pro quo. 2254 02:22:41.159 --> 02:22:47.799 I would think, no, it's probably cognitive dissonance and Dunning 2255 02:22:47.879 --> 02:22:48.600 Kruger effect. 2256 02:22:50.000 --> 02:22:52.879 I know, I know a few debunkers that like Michael 2257 02:22:52.920 --> 02:22:56.000 Shermer and Nick West. I would definitely say our poster 2258 02:22:56.159 --> 02:22:59.120 children of Dunning Krueger. But I want to go back 2259 02:22:59.120 --> 02:23:03.360 to Errow for just a So Arrows two primary contractors, 2260 02:23:03.440 --> 02:23:07.239 one with sand Corp and Arrow actually fired sand Corp. 2261 02:23:08.079 --> 02:23:10.680 And there's a new one called Arlow's Solutions. They're the 2262 02:23:10.719 --> 02:23:13.200 ones that reached out to me asked me to apply 2263 02:23:13.639 --> 02:23:16.239 for a position of which they wanted me to have 2264 02:23:16.760 --> 02:23:22.239 background in information operations and deception operations and information operations. 2265 02:23:23.159 --> 02:23:23.879 But here's the thing. 2266 02:23:24.239 --> 02:23:29.000 Both of those contractors, they are known for insider threat 2267 02:23:29.159 --> 02:23:32.559 management that is what the Lions share, and information and 2268 02:23:32.600 --> 02:23:36.520 perception management that is the Lion's share of what Arrows 2269 02:23:36.639 --> 02:23:40.959 two primary contractors. And from what I understand, the contractors 2270 02:23:41.000 --> 02:23:46.440 are really the ones doing the work in the in Arrow, 2271 02:23:46.479 --> 02:23:50.280 They're the ones really the muscle behind it. Do you 2272 02:23:50.399 --> 02:23:53.479 think that it is possible, and I'm going to add 2273 02:23:53.799 --> 02:23:56.200 one other thing to this, do you think that it 2274 02:23:56.399 --> 02:23:59.879 is possible that Arrow as part of one of the 2275 02:24:00.000 --> 02:24:05.920 where undisclosed missions is to be a fly paper operation 2276 02:24:06.559 --> 02:24:10.840 for whistleblowers. And what I'll tack onto that is two 2277 02:24:10.920 --> 02:24:14.079 years ago I submitted a letter to Congress that is 2278 02:24:14.159 --> 02:24:18.239 now part of the Congressional record that revealed for the 2279 02:24:18.319 --> 02:24:23.000 first time that the current actor Glenn Gaffnew who's on 2280 02:24:23.079 --> 02:24:27.440 this great Steven Spielberg movie, was on this back when 2281 02:24:27.479 --> 02:24:29.520 he was at c C, I, A, D, S and T. 2282 02:24:29.799 --> 02:24:34.040 He was actually on the Arrow advisory board, which, again 2283 02:24:34.440 --> 02:24:36.719 in my letter I said to Congress is, look, you've 2284 02:24:36.760 --> 02:24:40.600 got this guy that is a gatekeeper and is seeing 2285 02:24:41.360 --> 02:24:46.920 all of the classified testimony from whistleblowers and therefore could 2286 02:24:46.959 --> 02:24:49.559 be a back channel. Do you think that Arrow could 2287 02:24:49.639 --> 02:24:55.840 have a counterintelligence backchannel, fly paper type operation to get 2288 02:24:55.879 --> 02:24:58.200 stuff back into the Legacy program information? 2289 02:24:59.159 --> 02:25:01.319 It sounds like it based on what you said, I've 2290 02:25:01.479 --> 02:25:04.840 never heard of Arrow's contractors. I only knew one Arrow contractor, 2291 02:25:05.280 --> 02:25:08.479 my former employer, because they were hired to provide some 2292 02:25:08.639 --> 02:25:12.040 sort of office support and the people that worked there 2293 02:25:12.159 --> 02:25:16.479 were engineers, so they're doing some kind of support for Arrow. 2294 02:25:18.440 --> 02:25:22.120 So given that I only knew about aerospace, I've never 2295 02:25:22.159 --> 02:25:24.280 heard of the other two companies before. Given that they 2296 02:25:24.399 --> 02:25:28.680 do threat insider threat assessments. I happen to know from 2297 02:25:28.719 --> 02:25:33.559 my security training at Aerospace and that insider threat is 2298 02:25:33.600 --> 02:25:37.799 a big component of counterintelligence and that's very interesting. So 2299 02:25:37.920 --> 02:25:42.159 you link that with Kirkpatrick's role and Gaffney's role, and 2300 02:25:42.239 --> 02:25:46.479 it's like, well, what should people might know by now? 2301 02:25:46.559 --> 02:25:49.719 I don't know if they do. But Gaffney was actually 2302 02:25:49.840 --> 02:25:55.280 Kirkpatrick's mentor. Kirkpatrick did work at the CIA, Yes, Kirkpatrick 2303 02:25:55.440 --> 02:25:57.719 was his Boston mentor at one time during his career. 2304 02:25:59.399 --> 02:26:04.280 Explains everything, Holy shit, Okay you're here. 2305 02:26:04.159 --> 02:26:07.840 On the Yeah, so there you go. That's why volume 2306 02:26:07.879 --> 02:26:12.479 one was filled with bullshit because Glenn Gafney is working 2307 02:26:12.600 --> 02:26:15.040 around in this whirl of Kirkpatrick's life. 2308 02:26:16.559 --> 02:26:16.799 Wow. 2309 02:26:17.120 --> 02:26:21.079 Yeah, I mean I sometimes I wonder if if Sean 2310 02:26:21.200 --> 02:26:24.959 Kirkpatrick is a managed asset and he's managed by Gaffney. 2311 02:26:25.000 --> 02:26:28.040 After revealing that that that wouldn't wouldn't surprise me at all. 2312 02:26:29.040 --> 02:26:32.479 Yeah, Well, Dafney's retired. Well I think Daphney's retired if 2313 02:26:32.520 --> 02:26:35.719 I'm not mistaken. If not, he's no longer in that role. 2314 02:26:35.840 --> 02:26:39.159 But he's going to be an advisor, a friend, you know, 2315 02:26:39.200 --> 02:26:42.239 a consultant, that's easy to understand. That's easy to imagine. 2316 02:26:42.680 --> 02:26:47.719 So Kirkpatrick is not a gatekeeper by the way, he is. 2317 02:26:47.920 --> 02:26:50.799 He was a portfolio owner for this. 2318 02:26:50.959 --> 02:26:52.280 What does that mean for u AP? 2319 02:26:53.040 --> 02:26:56.639 Oh? He his office, being the director of being the 2320 02:26:56.719 --> 02:26:59.239 deputy director of the CIA for the Director of Science 2321 02:26:59.239 --> 02:27:03.799 and Technology means it is in his house that the 2322 02:27:03.920 --> 02:27:09.719 crash retrieval program exists. Okay, And so that was his role. 2323 02:27:10.399 --> 02:27:13.399 And so that makes him not a gatekeeper, but the 2324 02:27:13.520 --> 02:27:17.319 portfolio owner. He owns the portfolio. His house owns that 2325 02:27:17.479 --> 02:27:20.920 portfolio and there might be divided among different offices for 2326 02:27:21.000 --> 02:27:24.040 all I know, but and I don't know how, but 2327 02:27:25.719 --> 02:27:27.879 that's his role. The gatekeepers, like I said, are the 2328 02:27:27.959 --> 02:27:31.159 counterintelligence guys wherever they are in the government. 2329 02:27:32.000 --> 02:27:35.239 So with with what you just said, and in your 2330 02:27:35.360 --> 02:27:38.959 personal opinion, do you think Sean Kirkpatrick when he was 2331 02:27:39.079 --> 02:27:42.719 testifying in front of Congress had a full read on 2332 02:27:43.200 --> 02:27:48.239 to the UAP issue, the past legacy program efforts and 2333 02:27:48.479 --> 02:27:51.559 possibly current current reverse engineering efforts. 2334 02:27:51.600 --> 02:27:52.280 Do you think he not? 2335 02:27:52.479 --> 02:27:56.000 Very possible? That's very possible. We did scenario playing on 2336 02:27:56.760 --> 02:27:59.079 what he knew or what he didn't know, and we 2337 02:27:59.200 --> 02:28:02.600 thought and our an aerial role playing ended up on 2338 02:28:02.799 --> 02:28:08.200 a large probability, a big fraction of one percent, that 2339 02:28:08.840 --> 02:28:12.680 he was read in, but we weren't certain. We couldn't 2340 02:28:12.680 --> 02:28:17.360 confirm that probability to make it. Yeah, definitely one hundred percent. No, 2341 02:28:17.840 --> 02:28:20.840 we only had a good chunk of one percent that 2342 02:28:21.079 --> 02:28:23.239 he would have had to have been read in. It 2343 02:28:23.360 --> 02:28:25.319 makes sense that he got read in or would have 2344 02:28:25.360 --> 02:28:27.319 been read in, but we don't have any proof of 2345 02:28:27.399 --> 02:28:31.920 that because that was outside of our clearances our Okay, 2346 02:28:31.959 --> 02:28:35.079 so along with your eligibility for access, which is a 2347 02:28:35.159 --> 02:28:38.280 security clearance, you have need to know. So, uh, it 2348 02:28:38.399 --> 02:28:41.440 isn't beyond our eligibility for access, it's beyond our need 2349 02:28:41.520 --> 02:28:43.399 to know. So it's outside of our need to know 2350 02:28:43.799 --> 02:28:48.159 how that relationship worked within Gafney's organization and where Sean 2351 02:28:48.200 --> 02:28:50.280 played a role in it when he worked for Gaffney, 2352 02:28:50.479 --> 02:28:54.680 but Gaffney was his career mentor and and boss at 2353 02:28:54.719 --> 02:28:58.079 one time during his long intelligence career. 2354 02:28:58.600 --> 02:29:01.239 Oh my god, it's all it's all come together in 2355 02:29:01.600 --> 02:29:06.360 your in your work in the classified world. When I 2356 02:29:06.520 --> 02:29:10.760 received this, this message, this d M on LinkedIn from 2357 02:29:11.000 --> 02:29:14.040 the recruiter for r Low Solutions, who has took who 2358 02:29:14.120 --> 02:29:16.360 took the place of sand Corp. 2359 02:29:16.479 --> 02:29:18.920 When when uh, when they were fired? 2360 02:29:20.440 --> 02:29:23.079 When it's when the job is saying that that they 2361 02:29:23.159 --> 02:29:28.319 want me that they want my desired qualifications uh to 2362 02:29:28.520 --> 02:29:35.479 be information operations, uh, information activities and I'm sorry, uh 2363 02:29:36.000 --> 02:29:42.399 information operations, uh, information activities and deception operations? Would that 2364 02:29:42.559 --> 02:29:45.079 be a red flag? Like like Era was trying to 2365 02:29:45.159 --> 02:29:49.319 hire me to to be a puppet. You know, I've 2366 02:29:49.360 --> 02:29:50.719 had people tell me yes. 2367 02:29:51.600 --> 02:29:55.000 Yeah, deception is a part of perception management, which is 2368 02:29:55.280 --> 02:30:01.159 a role of counterintelligence. So it's like whoa Uh Joel 2369 02:30:01.239 --> 02:30:04.840 Scheckman at the Wall Street Journal worked for his artists 2370 02:30:06.159 --> 02:30:11.680 front organization, you know, pr information organization. So that's what 2371 02:30:11.840 --> 02:30:17.360 he did, was perception management. That's part of counter intelligence. Yeah, 2372 02:30:17.440 --> 02:30:19.239 that's part of official disinformation. 2373 02:30:20.280 --> 02:30:23.399 So so it's it's entirely possible that that was indeed 2374 02:30:23.479 --> 02:30:26.479 what they were wanting me to do. Yeah, it's possible. 2375 02:30:26.680 --> 02:30:29.280 Yeah, I can't imagine they're going to have you do 2376 02:30:29.479 --> 02:30:33.879 that with Chinese intelligence information. That's not what you would 2377 02:30:33.959 --> 02:30:39.000 be doing. That's what the intelligence analyst does. They take 2378 02:30:39.159 --> 02:30:42.879 Chinese intelligence, pars it down into its pieces, figure out 2379 02:30:43.000 --> 02:30:45.600 who needs what of that, figure out what the whole 2380 02:30:45.680 --> 02:30:47.879 picture is figure out what the little pieces of the 2381 02:30:47.959 --> 02:30:50.879 picture are and all that. But that doesn't they're not 2382 02:30:51.120 --> 02:30:55.879 looking for counterintelligence. Counterintelligence on China side is to prevent 2383 02:30:56.479 --> 02:31:01.799 their classified programs from leaking to so we're being stolen 2384 02:31:01.959 --> 02:31:05.600 by US. Okay, they're they're to prevent that. But for 2385 02:31:05.719 --> 02:31:08.280 you to work for counter intelligence operation that's involved in 2386 02:31:08.399 --> 02:31:13.079 UAP in a UAP office, that's very interesting. It's very interesting. 2387 02:31:13.159 --> 02:31:17.319 It sounds like perception management counter intelligence well. 2388 02:31:17.200 --> 02:31:20.159 And and the thing that was interesting was it was 2389 02:31:20.280 --> 02:31:25.719 the direct message that I got from Arrows Arrow's prime contractor. 2390 02:31:26.280 --> 02:31:28.040 It didn't have any of that in there. 2391 02:31:28.120 --> 02:31:28.239 You know. 2392 02:31:28.319 --> 02:31:30.399 The guy reached out and said, hey, we think that 2393 02:31:30.520 --> 02:31:32.479 you might be a good fit for this position. Of 2394 02:31:32.559 --> 02:31:34.840 course I don't hold a security clearance, so right away 2395 02:31:34.879 --> 02:31:37.120 I knew that wasn't going to happen. But then when I, 2396 02:31:37.639 --> 02:31:40.319 you know, I went and looked at the link for 2397 02:31:40.559 --> 02:31:43.280 the job position they wanted me to apply for. That's 2398 02:31:43.360 --> 02:31:48.319 when it said information operations in information activities and deception 2399 02:31:48.920 --> 02:31:53.959 deception operations. And again this is under doctor John Koslowski's leadership, 2400 02:31:54.319 --> 02:31:57.799 which to me says that members of Congress, and I 2401 02:31:57.879 --> 02:32:01.079 know Congresswoman Anna Polina you watched this as well as 2402 02:32:01.479 --> 02:32:04.040 many other members of Congress and their staffers. I don't 2403 02:32:04.120 --> 02:32:07.280 think that you can trust a goddamn thing pardon my French, 2404 02:32:07.440 --> 02:32:10.280 that Arrow puts out there personally. 2405 02:32:11.399 --> 02:32:15.959 Let me just interject briefly that there's a small possibility 2406 02:32:16.040 --> 02:32:20.120 that came to mind just now that maybe they want 2407 02:32:20.200 --> 02:32:22.520 you to do that type of work to figure out 2408 02:32:23.360 --> 02:32:28.239 who's doing that disinformation against the United States government. You know, 2409 02:32:29.000 --> 02:32:32.399 so that would be an intelligence gathering thing, but maybe 2410 02:32:32.520 --> 02:32:39.040 they want the perception management, you know, disinformation side to 2411 02:32:39.559 --> 02:32:44.239 a threat and now you know, threat insider threat assessment 2412 02:32:45.079 --> 02:32:50.559 to look at that from the counterintelligence side involving a 2413 02:32:50.639 --> 02:32:53.600 foreign actor. But now that I think about it even more, 2414 02:32:53.680 --> 02:32:57.959 I'm thinking that's that doesn't line. Well, that's still yeah, 2415 02:32:58.559 --> 02:33:02.239 that's very curious. But I don't want to get upset 2416 02:33:02.280 --> 02:33:04.479 with John because you know, there's going to be memos, 2417 02:33:04.559 --> 02:33:07.879 phone calls, and agreements going on in the background, and 2418 02:33:07.920 --> 02:33:10.600 there's gonna be a lot of missing information. We cannot 2419 02:33:11.239 --> 02:33:15.639 connect together. Uh and you know, dots very close together 2420 02:33:15.760 --> 02:33:18.040 versus the dots that are wide apart, like we're talking 2421 02:33:18.040 --> 02:33:20.760 about right now. We need the dots that are closer together. 2422 02:33:21.239 --> 02:33:23.840 So we don't have that. And I don't know why 2423 02:33:24.280 --> 02:33:29.280 that's necessary for AERRO. That's not a scientific endeavor and 2424 02:33:29.360 --> 02:33:33.000 as matter of fact, that goes against science to do 2425 02:33:33.280 --> 02:33:34.200 that kind of thing. 2426 02:33:35.399 --> 02:33:39.639 Well, but and it certainly would be in alignment with 2427 02:33:40.000 --> 02:33:43.600 Sean Kirkpatrick's behavior as as the leader of AERRO. 2428 02:33:43.680 --> 02:33:45.399 I mean clearly, Uh, they were. 2429 02:33:45.520 --> 02:33:49.399 They were a massive disinformation arm and uh and pushing 2430 02:33:49.479 --> 02:33:53.239 propaganda on the American public and the world. I want 2431 02:33:53.280 --> 02:33:58.799 to end this interview, uh with with this Science Advisory Panel. 2432 02:33:59.319 --> 02:33:59.440 Uh. 2433 02:33:59.680 --> 02:34:02.680 We've we had doctor Alvi Lob on the show. I 2434 02:34:02.719 --> 02:34:04.360 think it was a week and a half ago, folks. 2435 02:34:04.680 --> 02:34:07.280 It was a really great interview. I encourage everyone to 2436 02:34:07.360 --> 02:34:08.239 watch it now. 2437 02:34:08.559 --> 02:34:09.079 There are. 2438 02:34:10.840 --> 02:34:14.000 Quite a few people on this panel that have been 2439 02:34:14.079 --> 02:34:19.399 on the show that I have absolutely tremendous, tremendous respect for. 2440 02:34:21.000 --> 02:34:26.079 For Rear Admiral retired Admiral Tim Galia Datis comes to mind, 2441 02:34:26.600 --> 02:34:29.680 and then also doctor Gary Nolan, who I would count 2442 02:34:29.719 --> 02:34:33.360 as a personal friend and just absolutely one of Peter, 2443 02:34:34.040 --> 02:34:37.520 Peter Skaith, Peter Skafish, all of these folks that are 2444 02:34:39.000 --> 02:34:42.559 doctor av Lobe himself a wonderful human being. And then 2445 02:34:42.639 --> 02:34:47.760 you have Michael Shermer, who has this entire five oh 2446 02:34:47.799 --> 02:34:50.399 one C three with I think he had like eight 2447 02:34:50.520 --> 02:34:53.200 hundred thousand in revenue or a million in revenue, or 2448 02:34:53.760 --> 02:34:56.559 you can anyone can go look up on the I 2449 02:34:56.760 --> 02:34:59.479 R S. Form nine to ninety site. Just looked up 2450 02:34:59.520 --> 02:35:04.479 for Skeptic Society. This is Michael Shermer's organization. Of course, 2451 02:35:04.559 --> 02:35:09.319 Michael Shermer went on after he was actually it may 2452 02:35:09.360 --> 02:35:11.799 have been right before or shortly after he was named 2453 02:35:11.920 --> 02:35:16.000 this panel. He goes on X puts up a photo 2454 02:35:16.079 --> 02:35:19.520 of David Grush, whistle blower David Grush, and compares him 2455 02:35:19.879 --> 02:35:25.159 to the Heaven's Gate cult leader. Now, my personal opinion 2456 02:35:25.719 --> 02:35:30.280 is that Michael Shermer should go take a hike. He 2457 02:35:30.399 --> 02:35:36.239 has unqualified, He has unqualified ethically, he has unqualified professionally. 2458 02:35:36.559 --> 02:35:38.719 He should not be on this panel. 2459 02:35:39.639 --> 02:35:42.639 What is your personal opinion about doctor Michael Shermer and 2460 02:35:42.840 --> 02:35:45.440 what would be your message to doctor Avi Lobe. 2461 02:35:46.799 --> 02:35:50.399 I got two opinions. One Obviy is absolutely right in 2462 02:35:50.520 --> 02:35:53.440 that if you have a hardcore skeptic on that council, 2463 02:35:53.920 --> 02:35:58.360 and you can use the data, the UAP measurement data 2464 02:36:00.120 --> 02:36:03.840 of something that can be identified as unknown it is 2465 02:36:03.959 --> 02:36:07.239 not human made, not by any chance, not by any means. 2466 02:36:07.280 --> 02:36:10.879 It is not a human made data that his that 2467 02:36:11.159 --> 02:36:15.559 his council has collected data on are gathered from whoever 2468 02:36:15.680 --> 02:36:18.079 feeds that data to their council, whether it be a 2469 02:36:18.120 --> 02:36:22.520 government agency or private organizations like uap X and be 2470 02:36:22.639 --> 02:36:26.280 a Trisvilla Villero and others. And I apologize for the 2471 02:36:26.360 --> 02:36:29.440 other the Tidesco brothers if I didn't, I hope I 2472 02:36:29.440 --> 02:36:33.879 didn't mispronounce their name. So if you can get the data, 2473 02:36:34.120 --> 02:36:39.840 and the data is clearly irrefutably anomalous and can and 2474 02:36:39.920 --> 02:36:43.680 as of a craft of some type that cannot be 2475 02:36:43.840 --> 02:36:46.600 identified as human made, and if you can use that 2476 02:36:46.760 --> 02:36:50.120 data to convince a guy like Michael Shermer, then Michael 2477 02:36:50.159 --> 02:36:55.200 Schrmer should psychologically react by by blowing the carry clarion 2478 02:36:55.319 --> 02:36:59.559 call to say UAPs are real, they are here, they 2479 02:36:59.600 --> 02:37:01.959 are bus. So if you can convince a guy like 2480 02:37:02.040 --> 02:37:05.680 Michael Shermer that the data proves that there are U 2481 02:37:05.799 --> 02:37:10.680 A P that are non human technologies, non human entities 2482 02:37:10.719 --> 02:37:16.520 of whatever form, and uh they take a real then 2483 02:37:17.280 --> 02:37:21.000 then basically you you put down the skeptics arguments. You 2484 02:37:21.079 --> 02:37:24.440 put down Penn and Gillette, you put down Shermer, you 2485 02:37:24.559 --> 02:37:27.239 put down all the other skeptics people that I don't 2486 02:37:27.559 --> 02:37:29.840 they all, you know, the older guys have all died 2487 02:37:29.920 --> 02:37:32.600 off and moved off, so we have a new generation. 2488 02:37:32.719 --> 02:37:37.680 I'm sure. So that's the that's the that's the gold standard. 2489 02:37:38.239 --> 02:37:42.159 I agree with it. But Michael Shermer himself, he's ethically compromised, 2490 02:37:42.239 --> 02:37:46.319 and I think I know from reading the Skeptics bloggers 2491 02:37:46.840 --> 02:37:51.799 from the two thousands, they have complaints about his moral problems. 2492 02:37:52.040 --> 02:37:55.280 And I won't discuss that on this show, but you 2493 02:37:55.319 --> 02:37:59.079 already know what that is. So he has some moral issues. 2494 02:38:00.079 --> 02:38:03.200 Who knows. Maybe he's reformed now, maybe he's a better guy. 2495 02:38:03.600 --> 02:38:09.479 That's great, But unfortunately he has behaviors the exhibited that 2496 02:38:09.719 --> 02:38:16.440 were very unprofessional and lack morals, very unethical. So uh, 2497 02:38:18.040 --> 02:38:20.959 it's just not the best choice. He Let's let we 2498 02:38:21.000 --> 02:38:22.879 can set that aside. Let's go ahead and set that 2499 02:38:22.959 --> 02:38:25.840 aside and forget I even said it. Let's just look 2500 02:38:25.879 --> 02:38:30.319 at the fact that his personality is highly biased against 2501 02:38:31.159 --> 02:38:35.280 some of this phenomenon, the various things they call pseudoscience, 2502 02:38:36.399 --> 02:38:42.399 especially UAP. So he's he's he exhibits cognitive dissonance, very strongly, 2503 02:38:43.040 --> 02:38:49.559 and he's he's demonstrating the reason why. Alan Lightman, one 2504 02:38:49.600 --> 02:38:53.959 of my former astrophysics professors who did a sabbatical at 2505 02:38:54.000 --> 02:38:56.959 my university. I took an astrophysics course from him in 2506 02:38:57.000 --> 02:38:59.799 graduate school. He wrote an article with the with the 2507 02:39:00.840 --> 02:39:05.479 that was published in Science magazine in nineteen ninety three, 2508 02:39:05.639 --> 02:39:11.120 where do Anomalies Begin? And it talked about galiles, travails, 2509 02:39:12.079 --> 02:39:15.760 It talked about meteors. It talked about how we had 2510 02:39:15.840 --> 02:39:24.479 these anomalous phenomena that retroactively, retrospectively were realized to be 2511 02:39:24.680 --> 02:39:29.280 new phenomenon that were not predicted by prevailing accepted scientific theories, 2512 02:39:29.559 --> 02:39:33.319 therefore tossing those theories aside, either to have to be 2513 02:39:33.479 --> 02:39:37.879 rewritten to incorporate this new data they had, or they 2514 02:39:37.920 --> 02:39:40.479 couldn't be rewritten and they have to be replaced altogether. 2515 02:39:40.799 --> 02:39:43.920 So that's what the gist of when do Anomalies Begin? 2516 02:39:44.760 --> 02:39:49.600 Is that the words cognitive dissonance appear in that article. 2517 02:39:50.600 --> 02:39:55.920 And let me glad Armor is not a scientist, that's 2518 02:39:56.120 --> 02:40:03.600 the problem. Is a soft scientist, a stem scientist science, technology, engineering, mathematics. 2519 02:40:04.040 --> 02:40:09.639 We live by the scientific method Shermer does not. He 2520 02:40:09.719 --> 02:40:12.040 doesn't have a scientific method. Well, he might be able 2521 02:40:12.079 --> 02:40:16.120 to adapt it for the science he practices, but the 2522 02:40:16.239 --> 02:40:19.440 problem is the word cognitive dissonance applies to him. And 2523 02:40:19.600 --> 02:40:23.639 Thomas Kuhne's book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions is the 2524 02:40:23.840 --> 02:40:27.760 feature and focus of that article in that you get 2525 02:40:28.040 --> 02:40:35.159 data that contradicts your worldview of science, and you're going 2526 02:40:35.239 --> 02:40:38.280 to suffer cognitive dissonance. And then when more data comes 2527 02:40:38.319 --> 02:40:42.079 in that keeps contradicting your worldview and more of your 2528 02:40:42.200 --> 02:40:45.399 fellow scientists are upset and they're realizing, you know what, 2529 02:40:45.559 --> 02:40:49.680 this data is solid. That means our worldview secks. It's wrong. 2530 02:40:49.760 --> 02:40:53.559 We've got to redo it from scratch. Okay, that's where 2531 02:40:53.639 --> 02:40:58.719 Schumer can't go. It seems like he's psychologically predisposed, like 2532 02:40:58.760 --> 02:41:02.479 he's got some psychosis that prevents him from going there. 2533 02:41:02.680 --> 02:41:05.799 That's why he's not a valid pick for the board. 2534 02:41:06.079 --> 02:41:10.319 There's the council. Avi has many, many, many other choices 2535 02:41:10.719 --> 02:41:17.200 of excellent, unbiased scientists and many disciplines who don't suffer 2536 02:41:17.239 --> 02:41:20.639 from cognitive dissonance. And he could do a simple test 2537 02:41:21.399 --> 02:41:24.600 to find that out by interviewing these people. Somehow, Michael 2538 02:41:24.639 --> 02:41:28.319 Shermer passed the test, but here's what here's what we know. 2539 02:41:28.840 --> 02:41:32.440 AVI and Shermer both sit on the editorial board of 2540 02:41:32.479 --> 02:41:34.639 Scientific American. I don't know if that's true today, they 2541 02:41:34.680 --> 02:41:38.239 had been for many many years. Yes, Wow, they both 2542 02:41:38.280 --> 02:41:40.639 are on the They both are or were on the 2543 02:41:40.799 --> 02:41:43.639 editorial board of Scientific Americans. So obviously they're going to 2544 02:41:43.680 --> 02:41:46.280 come across each other. You know, Shermer writes some stuff 2545 02:41:46.280 --> 02:41:49.680 that I agree with. Actually, but on uap oh, he's 2546 02:41:49.799 --> 02:41:54.159 way off the beaten path on psycho on psychic stuff 2547 02:41:54.239 --> 02:41:57.879 like remote viewing and psychokinesis. He's way off the beaten 2548 02:41:57.959 --> 02:42:03.000 path because there's already laboratory with statistics. In other words, 2549 02:42:03.079 --> 02:42:06.399 Avi's gold standard has been met, and it turns out 2550 02:42:06.479 --> 02:42:08.959 how it put offs the one that brought psychic research 2551 02:42:09.040 --> 02:42:15.000 into a modern laboratory science at Stanford Research instance. Yeah, 2552 02:42:15.200 --> 02:42:19.719 it's that, Okay, this is what cognitive dissonance also means. 2553 02:42:20.040 --> 02:42:24.120 It means he refuses to read and look at the 2554 02:42:24.319 --> 02:42:27.799 data and think about it. That's where the cognitive dissonance 2555 02:42:28.239 --> 02:42:32.239 is blinding him psychologically. He's got a barrier he can't 2556 02:42:32.280 --> 02:42:35.879 get across because he refuses to read the published scientific literature, 2557 02:42:35.920 --> 02:42:38.399 which there is in Nature magazine and in the I 2558 02:42:38.559 --> 02:42:42.719 tripole journals and books on the remote viewing program, including 2559 02:42:43.280 --> 02:42:48.680 that it passed the CIA and Defense Science Review Boards repeatedly. 2560 02:42:49.319 --> 02:42:53.600 How was able to take the most stnscious Science Science 2561 02:42:53.639 --> 02:42:56.879 Board members who were skeptical. They come in audit the 2562 02:42:56.959 --> 02:43:00.280 remote viewing program at Stanford and they said this all 2563 02:43:00.319 --> 02:43:02.239 bill shit. I want you to run a session for me. 2564 02:43:02.399 --> 02:43:06.799 So How ran a session and the skeptical scientist said, oh, 2565 02:43:06.959 --> 02:43:09.399 I can figure out a magic trick that can explain that. 2566 02:43:09.879 --> 02:43:12.319 And how would prove to him he was wrong? Okay? 2567 02:43:12.680 --> 02:43:14.680 And these are double blind studies, by the way, for 2568 02:43:14.799 --> 02:43:17.559 which how would not know what the target is? Okay? 2569 02:43:17.719 --> 02:43:22.719 So then the key to persuading them is not to 2570 02:43:22.920 --> 02:43:26.000 let somebody else be the remote view not let not 2571 02:43:26.239 --> 02:43:30.680 let an established military remote viewer or an SRI remote 2572 02:43:30.760 --> 02:43:35.680 viewer do the session. It's how briefly trains the skeptic 2573 02:43:35.879 --> 02:43:39.079 on how to do the remote viewing. And every time 2574 02:43:39.639 --> 02:43:42.319 that a skeptic came in to audit the program because 2575 02:43:42.319 --> 02:43:45.040 they were skeptical and they were hoping they were advising 2576 02:43:45.120 --> 02:43:47.799 to cancel the budget for that program, how would teach 2577 02:43:47.840 --> 02:43:51.120 him how to remote view? He'd have a guy out there, 2578 02:43:51.200 --> 02:43:53.360 somebody in the office would get some guy hell would 2579 02:43:53.440 --> 02:43:56.479 know who he was, would go out in some random location, 2580 02:43:56.600 --> 02:43:59.000 find a target, sit there, look at it, and then 2581 02:44:00.120 --> 02:44:03.959 then How would just sit there and after the training 2582 02:44:04.280 --> 02:44:10.520 the skeptic would start getting mental images and start scribbling 2583 02:44:10.600 --> 02:44:14.760 it down verbally describing it, and boom. Every time Hal 2584 02:44:14.879 --> 02:44:18.200 ran different sessions with the skeptics, he was remote viewing 2585 02:44:18.399 --> 02:44:22.840 accurately where the guy who Hal didn't know, or the 2586 02:44:22.920 --> 02:44:26.159 scientist did know, some random guy picked by the office 2587 02:44:26.399 --> 02:44:28.079 to go out to some target. It might have been 2588 02:44:28.120 --> 02:44:30.040 a donut shop with the giant donut on top of 2589 02:44:30.120 --> 02:44:32.840 the building, that kind of thing. So how was able 2590 02:44:32.920 --> 02:44:38.840 to persuade those skeptics. Well, we need to do something 2591 02:44:38.959 --> 02:44:44.360 equivalent for UAP. Now, my ultimate evidence to persuade them 2592 02:44:45.079 --> 02:44:48.200 is to get them into a crash retrieval program, have 2593 02:44:48.399 --> 02:44:51.000 them touch a craft and go in it, and maybe 2594 02:44:51.040 --> 02:44:55.319 even have them see evidence of the recovered NHI bodies, 2595 02:44:56.079 --> 02:45:01.120 and that'll be an ontological shock that will shake them. 2596 02:45:02.040 --> 02:45:03.799 Well, and here's the thing. 2597 02:45:05.319 --> 02:45:10.520 Excuse me, Eric, can we trust Michael Shermer, who whose 2598 02:45:11.000 --> 02:45:17.159 entire livelihood income is based on books. 2599 02:45:18.040 --> 02:45:23.639 I can't talk book sales and twenty to thirty thousand. 2600 02:45:23.719 --> 02:45:26.600 That was the other thing, you know he posted about 2601 02:45:27.600 --> 02:45:32.479 saying that all these UAP whistleblowers are grifting and available 2602 02:45:32.559 --> 02:45:37.479 for doing talks, paid talks. But yet Michael Shermer, if 2603 02:45:37.559 --> 02:45:40.200 you go and you look at these booking services, is 2604 02:45:41.000 --> 02:45:45.440 charging twenty to thirty thousand dollars to go talk. So 2605 02:45:45.799 --> 02:45:50.360 can you trust Michael Shermer to be a honest broker 2606 02:45:50.520 --> 02:45:55.239 on this committee when his when his entire bank account 2607 02:45:56.239 --> 02:45:59.040 is reliant on debunking this stuff. 2608 02:46:00.079 --> 02:46:02.559 Yeah, I went to my first TWUFO conference and only 2609 02:46:02.600 --> 02:46:08.719 got a fifteen hundred dollars honorarium with travel first time. Yeah, 2610 02:46:08.799 --> 02:46:11.040 it was at the end of May this year, and 2611 02:46:11.879 --> 02:46:14.000 that's the first time I ever went. I got a 2612 02:46:14.040 --> 02:46:17.120 full time job. I make a good amount of money. 2613 02:46:17.159 --> 02:46:20.559 I'm in the upper middle class way up there, and 2614 02:46:20.959 --> 02:46:24.600 I don't need to grift. I'm not looking to write 2615 02:46:24.639 --> 02:46:26.920 a book. Although people are pressing me and pressing me 2616 02:46:27.040 --> 02:46:30.319 to write a book. I probably have less information than 2617 02:46:30.639 --> 02:46:34.639 Lakatski and Strattenham and lou Lose book IM and it 2618 02:46:34.840 --> 02:46:39.719 too so so no, I'm not looking to make money 2619 02:46:39.760 --> 02:46:40.920 on it. As a matter of fact, I don't make 2620 02:46:41.000 --> 02:46:43.920 money on it. I just was given a courtesy honorarium. 2621 02:46:44.319 --> 02:46:48.799 It was fifteen hundred bucks plus the travel expenses. And 2622 02:46:48.959 --> 02:46:52.399 that's the first one I've attended since twenty thirteen. The 2623 02:46:52.520 --> 02:46:56.200 twenty thirteen one was the International move On Symposium that year, 2624 02:46:56.639 --> 02:47:00.440 and the previous time I went and got it and 2625 02:47:00.520 --> 02:47:02.879 they gave me an honorary. No, they did not. They 2626 02:47:02.959 --> 02:47:05.440 did not pay me even an honorarium, but they paid 2627 02:47:05.440 --> 02:47:08.760 my travel expenses. But the last one I attended and 2628 02:47:08.879 --> 02:47:11.319 the first win was the last win previous to that 2629 02:47:12.280 --> 02:47:16.159 was in the two thousand and one International move On 2630 02:47:16.239 --> 02:47:20.680 Supposium in Irvine, California. I did not collect an honorarium, 2631 02:47:20.719 --> 02:47:23.440 but they covered my travel expenses and that's it. So 2632 02:47:24.120 --> 02:47:28.840 I don't do the UFO lecture circuit. I don't have 2633 02:47:29.239 --> 02:47:35.120 the time. I'm training PhDs between Baylor University and the 2634 02:47:35.200 --> 02:47:39.959 State University of New York at Albany aka University of Albany, 2635 02:47:40.040 --> 02:47:44.559 where UAPx is located in the Physics department under Kevin 2636 02:47:44.680 --> 02:47:50.920 professor's Kevin Kanu, Mike Matt Shadegas, and I'll leave the 2637 02:47:50.959 --> 02:47:53.760 third professor's name out. She doesn't want a high profile. 2638 02:47:54.239 --> 02:47:58.920 So anyway, so That's how I feel about it. I'm 2639 02:47:59.280 --> 02:48:01.559 not in this toma the money. I was actually a 2640 02:48:01.639 --> 02:48:07.799 paid professional ufologist, a UFO field investigator using forensic field 2641 02:48:07.879 --> 02:48:13.719 investigation techniques at NIDS for six years, and then I 2642 02:48:13.879 --> 02:48:16.680 carried that forward when I worked for AFRO. My program 2643 02:48:16.799 --> 02:48:19.399 director was heavy into this stuff as well, this topic, 2644 02:48:19.719 --> 02:48:21.959 so he had me keep that going. Matter of fact, 2645 02:48:22.520 --> 02:48:25.959 the guy I replaced you died from glioblastoma was his 2646 02:48:26.120 --> 02:48:30.959 longtime contractor, doctor Robert L. Forward at Hughes Research Labs 2647 02:48:31.000 --> 02:48:35.760 in Malibu. And Robert Forward did a UFO investigation for 2648 02:48:36.280 --> 02:48:40.200 one of his study reports for my program manager, and 2649 02:48:40.319 --> 02:48:47.680 that was circa mid eighties. So my program manager was 2650 02:48:47.799 --> 02:48:50.440 into the topic because he himself had his own inside 2651 02:48:50.559 --> 02:48:55.520 government information. He's running the Advanced Concepts Office at AFROL 2652 02:48:55.680 --> 02:48:59.399 Atwards Air Force Space and he is there as a 2653 02:48:59.479 --> 02:49:06.959 government service employee, research scientist, program manager actually, uh, and 2654 02:49:07.120 --> 02:49:10.040 so he's got his security clearances, and he knows what 2655 02:49:10.239 --> 02:49:13.280 he's been read in on stuff, and there's the rumor 2656 02:49:13.319 --> 02:49:14.959 mill that kind of you know, you whisper in the 2657 02:49:15.000 --> 02:49:19.840 air of your coworker, and he's heard stuff and he's uh, credible, 2658 02:49:20.159 --> 02:49:23.559 credible people. He talked to at Wright Patterson Air Force Space. 2659 02:49:23.600 --> 02:49:26.879 There's a there's an Advanced Concepts office at airfarl A 2660 02:49:27.120 --> 02:49:32.479 fr all there too, so uh uh so this has 2661 02:49:32.559 --> 02:49:35.360 been going on and then worked for how put up 2662 02:49:35.559 --> 02:49:38.760 we we again like Bigelow, and we were funded by 2663 02:49:38.799 --> 02:49:42.239 a very wealthy benefactor who was interested in the topic. 2664 02:49:42.639 --> 02:49:45.360 But that benefactor had no role in the OFFSET because 2665 02:49:45.399 --> 02:49:47.520 that was a d A contract that went to Big 2666 02:49:47.559 --> 02:49:50.920 Lowerospace Advanced Space Studies and that and they led out 2667 02:49:50.959 --> 02:49:54.600 subcontracts to several of us. And the reason why, well, 2668 02:49:54.719 --> 02:49:56.959 there was several of us from NIDS the NIDS era 2669 02:49:57.440 --> 02:50:00.559 makes sense. We were either staff or members of the 2670 02:50:00.600 --> 02:50:03.159 Science Advisory Board. But it wasn't all of us. It 2671 02:50:03.280 --> 02:50:05.440 was just a very small number of us. The rest 2672 02:50:05.520 --> 02:50:08.040 of the people at Big Little Aerospace Advanced Based Studies 2673 02:50:08.280 --> 02:50:13.040 were retired Navy and Marine Corps fighter pilots and uh 2674 02:50:13.680 --> 02:50:18.719 data management analysis staff, people who work with information technology. 2675 02:50:19.120 --> 02:50:22.159 Those guys, those are all guys that had nothing to 2676 02:50:22.239 --> 02:50:24.959 do with NIDS. They had nothing to do with Skinwalker Ranch. 2677 02:50:25.479 --> 02:50:28.920 They just got hired to run their job duties to 2678 02:50:29.040 --> 02:50:32.399 meet the mission goals of the ASAPP contract that ba 2679 02:50:32.520 --> 02:50:40.719 ASS had. Uh So, so Schmer Schurmer. I I don't 2680 02:50:40.760 --> 02:50:44.360 want to upset people by using a series of foul words. 2681 02:50:44.639 --> 02:50:46.719 It's all the time here. 2682 02:50:47.399 --> 02:50:51.360 Yeah, we gotta we speak politely. Uh, he's the wrong candidate. 2683 02:50:51.440 --> 02:50:54.920 He's the wrong guy nominated. Obby should look for somebody else. 2684 02:50:55.559 --> 02:50:59.200 Bobby wants me to give him a list of prospective replacements. 2685 02:50:59.200 --> 02:51:02.719 I'll be happy to and and I will not necessarily 2686 02:51:02.799 --> 02:51:05.840 go with anybody in physics, although I have physics people 2687 02:51:06.120 --> 02:51:09.319 I can immediately pick, like an American physicist at CERN 2688 02:51:09.760 --> 02:51:13.719 who would be a great skeptic. I think he's too biased. 2689 02:51:13.760 --> 02:51:17.680 Bet he's not Michael Schrmer. He's ethical, he's a moral guy. 2690 02:51:17.719 --> 02:51:24.520 He's straight arrow, but he's a little twisted. So anyway, 2691 02:51:24.559 --> 02:51:28.600 there are there are people in psychology, psychiatry, other medical fields, 2692 02:51:29.360 --> 02:51:34.120 material sciences, other fields of engineering, physics, mathematics, astronomy, astrophysics. 2693 02:51:34.200 --> 02:51:37.719 There are people there that have not made contact into it. 2694 02:51:37.840 --> 02:51:41.559 They may be they may have read popular literature about UFOs, 2695 02:51:41.600 --> 02:51:44.200 but they don't. This isn't their thing. This is they 2696 02:51:44.280 --> 02:51:47.399 don't ride the horse of UAP. So they would be 2697 02:51:47.479 --> 02:51:50.120 great for AVI. He he needs to have somebody who's 2698 02:51:50.159 --> 02:51:54.000 removed from the uap field in my opinion, uh, that way, 2699 02:51:54.079 --> 02:51:57.559 they won't suffer from some form of cognitive dissonance. In 2700 02:51:57.639 --> 02:52:01.799 the pro or con direction he wants to I'm unbiased. 2701 02:52:02.600 --> 02:52:06.399 Yeah, yeah, and not charging twenty and thirty thousand dollars 2702 02:52:06.920 --> 02:52:11.319 to give talks, some of which are certainly about. 2703 02:52:11.319 --> 02:52:13.440 Debunking debunking UFOs. 2704 02:52:13.600 --> 02:52:17.040 Well, Eric, I have to say this has been one 2705 02:52:17.079 --> 02:52:21.200 of the most enjoyable interviews I have done in quite 2706 02:52:21.280 --> 02:52:27.079 some time. We've blown way past your heart out at 2707 02:52:27.159 --> 02:52:29.440 three thirty three thirty Pacific. 2708 02:52:29.120 --> 02:52:30.920 And unfortunately we won't be able to get to all 2709 02:52:31.000 --> 02:52:31.639 of the questions. 2710 02:52:31.879 --> 02:52:35.600 But I am just truly, truly grateful for your candor 2711 02:52:36.079 --> 02:52:39.360 and the generosity of your time. I know everyone watching 2712 02:52:39.440 --> 02:52:43.040 this show certainly is, and we appreciate it every appreciate 2713 02:52:43.239 --> 02:52:44.680 everything that you've done on this topic. 2714 02:52:45.520 --> 02:52:47.280 Oh, thank you very much. And I was very happy 2715 02:52:47.319 --> 02:52:48.920 to be here, and I'm very happy that I'm in 2716 02:52:49.040 --> 02:52:53.399 an employment status that allows me more freedom than I 2717 02:52:53.440 --> 02:52:56.239 had at the Real Space Corporation, which banned me. The 2718 02:52:56.680 --> 02:53:00.799 corporate communications office banned me from making these kind of appearances. 2719 02:53:01.079 --> 02:53:04.799 I couldn't even go do scientific conferences or talk to 2720 02:53:04.879 --> 02:53:07.840 the press about the work of my PhD students at 2721 02:53:07.879 --> 02:53:11.399 Baylor on wormholes and warp drives or even time machines. 2722 02:53:11.680 --> 02:53:14.200 Couldn't do it. That's all general relativity with a mixture 2723 02:53:14.200 --> 02:53:16.319 of quantum field theory. They wouldn't let me do that. 2724 02:53:16.639 --> 02:53:20.120 They had a problem with a famous celebrity scientist getting 2725 02:53:20.200 --> 02:53:24.000 hired by the company, and that individual brought a lot 2726 02:53:24.079 --> 02:53:29.079 of the political and public controversy his work engendered into 2727 02:53:29.200 --> 02:53:32.000 the company and they had to manage that somehow, So 2728 02:53:32.239 --> 02:53:35.360 they put a herdband on me, and I worked for 2729 02:53:35.440 --> 02:53:39.639 an employer who actually very open minded and involved in 2730 02:53:39.799 --> 02:53:43.879 UAPs in the background. Whoever that employer, I will not 2731 02:53:44.040 --> 02:53:44.440 name him. 2732 02:53:44.879 --> 02:53:46.360 I have a guest. 2733 02:53:46.719 --> 02:53:48.200 Well, Eric, thank you, thank you so much. 2734 02:53:48.280 --> 02:53:51.239 This as just I mean, bombshell after bombshell with this interview, 2735 02:53:51.319 --> 02:53:54.120 so this is really really big, great thank you for 2736 02:53:54.200 --> 02:53:54.479 your time. 2737 02:53:54.520 --> 02:53:56.760 Thank you very much. Have a great day. Hi. 2738 02:53:56.959 --> 02:53:57.239 All right,