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<v Speaker 1>In our last episode, we began telling the story of

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<v Speaker 1>Earl Nelson, aka the Gorilla Killer, so be sure to

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<v Speaker 1>listen to part one and join us today as we

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<v Speaker 1>carry on with part two. So with that being said,

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<v Speaker 1>my name's Ben, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a true

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<v Speaker 2>crime podcast. Warning.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast and material intended for matial audience. Listener

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<v Speaker 1>discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna need a recap. It's been a long week.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Part one The Gorilla Killer. There you go, there's

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<v Speaker 1>your recap.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I mean you're ready, just like that. That name

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<v Speaker 2>alone does like make you recall a lot of things,

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<v Speaker 2>because it really does.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a bit unique, it is, honestly, it's it's a

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting name, but of course it comes because of

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<v Speaker 1>his physical feature. Yeah, I do have a recap for you.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want to just dive into it and get

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<v Speaker 1>right into it. I can do that, or do you

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<v Speaker 1>have anything you want to start with first?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. We just did a pre show or

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<v Speaker 2>on Patreon and we were literally just talking about food

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<v Speaker 2>because we've been healthy eating. So I think we should

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<v Speaker 2>just dive right in.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, before we start talking about fried chicken and all

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of stuff. Yeah, all right, Okay, I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to get right into the recap. Then here we go.

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<v Speaker 1>So up until this point, we've followed Earl Nelson from

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<v Speaker 1>the very beginning of his life, from a troubled childhood

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<v Speaker 1>to a serious head injury, two years of instability, arrests,

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<v Speaker 1>and time spent in and out of different institutions showing

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<v Speaker 1>it his life never really found any kind of solid structure,

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<v Speaker 1>and by nineteen twenty five he was on his own,

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<v Speaker 1>moving between cities, using different names and blending into wherever

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<v Speaker 1>he went. Then by nineteen twenty six, that's when everything shifted.

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<v Speaker 1>Women renting out rooms began turning up dead in their

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<v Speaker 1>own homes, all under nearly identical circumstances. He would show

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<v Speaker 1>up looking for a place to stay, gain their trust,

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<v Speaker 1>and then get them alone, and when that occurred, then

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<v Speaker 1>he attacked, strangling them to death. Now, at first, investigators

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<v Speaker 1>treated each case as isolated events, different cities, different investigators,

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<v Speaker 1>no clear connection. But as the murders continued in the

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<v Speaker 1>pattern became harder to ignore. That's when it started to

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<v Speaker 1>become clear that some of these things were not random.

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<v Speaker 1>They soon realized they were dealing with someone who was

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<v Speaker 1>moving from city to city, staying ahead of their investigation

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<v Speaker 1>and leaving behind just enough to suggest there could be

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<v Speaker 1>a connection between these events, but never enough to stop

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<v Speaker 1>him in time, and by the end of nineteen twenty

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<v Speaker 1>six the situation was only getting worse. But in November

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<v Speaker 1>of nineteen twenty six, someone would survive an encounter with

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<v Speaker 1>Earl aka the Gorilla Killer and was able to tell

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<v Speaker 1>police all about it. And that is where we left off.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, right, he did have a very unique but rough upbringing,

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<v Speaker 2>Yes he did. That was, Yeah, that was interesting to

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<v Speaker 2>listen to. But still that's no excuse to be this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of monster that he had totully turned into.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure, And outside of the head injury he sustained,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no like one specific thing that you can say

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<v Speaker 1>that was the indicator for what you become. Even the

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<v Speaker 1>head injury, you can't fully blame that. So it's very interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like this culmination of so many things and potentially

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<v Speaker 1>who he was to start with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then I had forgotten that this happened in

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen twenties or around there, So very difficult for

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<v Speaker 2>you know, solving any type of thing like this exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a big part of this story because nineteen twenties,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the communication between cities and everything identifying patterns

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<v Speaker 1>is a big, massive, glaring hole in society, and it

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<v Speaker 1>allowed him to actually go through with many of these killings.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes sense how it was, I guess able to

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<v Speaker 2>do all this, which sucks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And even in part one, as investigators started to

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<v Speaker 1>like put the pieces together, it's like, okay, some of

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<v Speaker 1>these are related. Many of them were not connected until

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<v Speaker 1>like much later still, because there's just too much to

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<v Speaker 1>go with, okay. So even so they were starting to

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<v Speaker 1>slowly kind of catch on, much of it was still

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<v Speaker 1>just wide open and unknown.

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<v Speaker 2>Cal I am very interested to hear about this person

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<v Speaker 2>that survives, Okay, so come on, Well, you made us

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<v Speaker 2>wait long enough. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>It was in San Jose, California, where a woman named

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Murray, who had been several months pregnant at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>would encounter a man who approached her in the same

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<v Speaker 1>sort of way that others had described. He presented himself

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<v Speaker 1>as someone who was looking for a room and was

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to take a look inside at the accommodations being offered.

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<v Speaker 1>The situation started off normally enough, but it didn't end

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<v Speaker 1>the same way as all the others. At some point

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<v Speaker 1>during their interaction, well, he attempted to attack her. However,

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<v Speaker 1>instead of being overpowered immediately, she fought back fiercely, and

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<v Speaker 1>in doing so, she managed to leave visible scratch marks

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<v Speaker 1>on his face during the struggle. Yeah, this scratches were

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<v Speaker 1>deep enough and done hard enough to actually drawn blood.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, and she was also pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>She was pregnant.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. So yeah, Well, I mean she had a lot

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<v Speaker 2>to fight for I guess right for sure, Not that

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<v Speaker 2>the others didn't, but you know what I mean. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, the attack broke down quickly after that, and he

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<v Speaker 1>fled the scene before could escalate any further her. So,

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<v Speaker 1>for the very first time, there was a victim who

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<v Speaker 1>had survived an attack from the Gorilla Killer, and they

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<v Speaker 1>could describe not just the man's appearance, but the interaction

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<v Speaker 1>itself with him. Now, her account added something investigators hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>had before. See, it wasn't just a description of someone

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<v Speaker 1>entering a house or being seen leaving like the other cases.

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<v Speaker 1>In this case, she was able to confirm how he

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<v Speaker 1>approached the victims, how he behaved once he was inside,

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<v Speaker 1>and how quickly the situation shifted from normal conversation into violence.

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<v Speaker 1>She also told investigators that she had in fact injured

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<v Speaker 1>him with those scratches.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and an injury that you couldn't really hide exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So now there's this chance that the culprit is moving

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<v Speaker 1>about through the public with visible injuries on his face.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone might notice that and could hey point it out

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<v Speaker 1>to investigators or police. Now this was a small shift,

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<v Speaker 1>but it mattered a lot, and the investigation had its

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<v Speaker 1>first real break, But it still wasn't enough to identify

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<v Speaker 1>him or even stop him. In fact, they were always

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<v Speaker 1>working backwards up until this point, trying to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>had already happened, rather than stopping what was about to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>But that began to shift with the new information they had,

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<v Speaker 1>and as new cases appeared towards the end of nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>twenty six. On November twenty third of that year, in Seattle,

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<v Speaker 1>Florence Monks was found dead inside her home. Like the

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<v Speaker 1>early victims, she had been renting out rooms and had

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<v Speaker 1>allowed someone inside. The attack followed the same structure of

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<v Speaker 1>being in private. It was very controlled and it was

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<v Speaker 1>over quickly, which meant by the time her body was discovered,

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<v Speaker 1>the man responsible was already long gone. However, something stood

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<v Speaker 1>out about this case, and it was that something was missing. See,

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<v Speaker 1>some of her personal belongings, including pieces of jewelry, had

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<v Speaker 1>been taken. Now, some theft had actually been noted in

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<v Speaker 1>some of the earlier cases as well, but it hadn't

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<v Speaker 1>been treated as anything more than a secondary detail. But

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<v Speaker 1>now it started to take on a bit more importance

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<v Speaker 1>in this story. Also around the same time, another case

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<v Speaker 1>began to offer something more concrete. In Portland. During the

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<v Speaker 1>investigation into the killing of Blanche Meyers, investigators were able

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<v Speaker 1>to recover fingerprints from the scene. Now, at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>fingerprinting was still becoming a standard tool in criminal investigations,

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<v Speaker 1>but it had already proven useful in identifying suspects when

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<v Speaker 1>a match could actually be made. In this case, the

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<v Speaker 1>prints were clear enough to be preserved and documented, but

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<v Speaker 1>they still had no match to them without an existing

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<v Speaker 1>record to compare it against. The fingerprints didn't lead anywhere immediately.

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<v Speaker 1>They were stored, cataloged and held as evidence, waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>future moments when they might be useful.

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<v Speaker 2>So super cool, but it's not like they have much

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<v Speaker 2>of a database.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly, so they have something that it might be useful

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<v Speaker 1>later on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, taken together, these developments began to change some things.

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<v Speaker 1>For the first time, there was a combination of elements

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<v Speaker 1>that could potentially move things forward. You have a surviving witness,

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<v Speaker 1>You have stolen property that could maybe be traced, and

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<v Speaker 1>physical evidence that could one day identify a person responsible

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<v Speaker 1>if they had prints to compare. None of it solved

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<v Speaker 1>the case on its own, but it was something Even Still,

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<v Speaker 1>the same problem remained. Though every new piece of evidence

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<v Speaker 1>came from a place that he had already left. They

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<v Speaker 1>were still following a trail, and he still wasn't done.

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<v Speaker 1>On December twenty third, nineteen twenty six, in Council Bluffs, Iowa,

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<v Speaker 1>Almira Barrard, a woman who rented out rooms in her home,

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<v Speaker 1>was found dead. Just as in the earlier cases, she

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<v Speaker 1>had allowed someone inside. There had been a struggle and

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<v Speaker 1>she had been strangled, and of course by the time

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<v Speaker 1>anyone realized what had happened, the person responsible was once

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<v Speaker 1>again gone.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very unhappy because I was thinking the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>you were, like, yes, someone survived, that we were done

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<v Speaker 2>with all these all all of these victims. Just how

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<v Speaker 2>many has he killed at this point? Like so many?

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<v Speaker 1>We'll get to numbers at the end. Don't worry.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's tough to listen to you though, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>and it's so easy of how he just gets in

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<v Speaker 2>there and figure it out this way. So I don't

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<v Speaker 2>love that. Well.

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<v Speaker 1>Only a few days later, the same pattern appeared again

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<v Speaker 1>in Kansas City, Missouri. There, Bonnie Pace, a young woman

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<v Speaker 1>who also took in borders, was killed under nearly identical circumstances.

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<v Speaker 1>She led a man into her home and the interaction

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<v Speaker 1>turned violent. Once they were alone, she was strangled and

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<v Speaker 1>items were taken from the house before the attacker left.

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<v Speaker 1>In the same city, within that same period of time,

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<v Speaker 1>two more victims were connected in the same sequence. Jermania

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<v Speaker 1>harpin another landlady was found dead along with her young son.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this child had also been killed, making him the

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<v Speaker 1>only male victim connected to this series of murders. But

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<v Speaker 1>each victim had been approached in the same way that

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<v Speaker 1>didn't immediately raise suspicion. Each allowed a man inside. Each

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<v Speaker 1>had been attacked quickly, in private and without a witness present.

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<v Speaker 1>Now what stood out just as much as the method

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<v Speaker 1>now was also the pace of the attacks. There was

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<v Speaker 1>very little time in between these incidents. He wasn't staying

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<v Speaker 1>in one place, and he wasn't slowing down by any means.

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<v Speaker 1>He moved from city to city, committing a killing and

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<v Speaker 1>then leaving before the investigation had even fully begun where

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<v Speaker 1>that killing just occurred. He was on a full out spree.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's out of control.

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<v Speaker 1>And by the time authority started working on one scene,

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<v Speaker 1>he was already somewhere else, repeating that same pattern and

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<v Speaker 1>staying one step ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to wonder, too, I'm betting anything as he's

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<v Speaker 2>going into houses to other houses and there's like a

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<v Speaker 2>husband there or something, or he's or someone there, that

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<v Speaker 2>he's not able to commit the crime. So I bet

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<v Speaker 2>you there's a lot of potential victims too that he

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<v Speaker 2>just had to move on from one hundred percent. You're right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I guarantee, which is really scary too.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, by early nineteen twenty seven, the investigation had reached

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<v Speaker 1>a point where none could deny the pattern, but authorities

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<v Speaker 1>were still working with fragments and trying to communicate back

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<v Speaker 1>and forth between all these jurisdictions. California had its cases

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<v Speaker 1>Oregon had its own cluster. Washington, Iowa, and Missouri each

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<v Speaker 1>had incidents that fit the same structure, but those connections

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<v Speaker 1>they needed to take a lot of time to form.

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<v Speaker 1>Information moved extremely slow, and finally, by the time one

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<v Speaker 1>department began to suspect a link, well, he was already

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<v Speaker 1>just moving on to the next place. In fact, in

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<v Speaker 1>April of nineteen twenty seven, a woman named Mary McConnell

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<v Speaker 1>was found dead in Philadelphia. She'd been living in a

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<v Speaker 1>home where rooms were rented out, and she allowed someone

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<v Speaker 1>inside and it ended in strangulation. There were signs of

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<v Speaker 1>a struggle and items from miss from the scene. Once again,

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<v Speaker 1>a month later, on May thirtieth, nineteen twenty seven, in Buffalo,

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<v Speaker 1>New York, another woman, Jenny Randolph, was killed under nearly

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<v Speaker 1>identical circumstances. Once again, the details match, but they'd already

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<v Speaker 1>seen across multiple states. The method, the setting, and the

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<v Speaker 1>approach were all consistent with the earlier cases. Then within

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<v Speaker 1>days the pattern appeared once again. In early June of

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty seven, killings were reported in both Detroit and Chicago,

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<v Speaker 1>each following the very same sequence. A man looking for

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<v Speaker 1>a room, a private interaction an attack, and then just

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<v Speaker 1>as quickly he was gone. Investigators across several different cities

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<v Speaker 1>were now working with descriptions that matched very closely, and

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<v Speaker 1>they were desperately trying to bring this reign of terror

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<v Speaker 1>to an end. Now he was a stocky man, often

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<v Speaker 1>described as being in his late twenties or early thirties,

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<v Speaker 1>with large hands and a quiet demeanor, the same kind

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<v Speaker 1>of man that had been seen in San Francis, in

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<v Speaker 1>Portland and Seattle and now cities across the Midwest and

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<v Speaker 1>the East. However, as difficult as it was, there had

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<v Speaker 1>been a bit of a break coming into this case

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<v Speaker 1>regarding evidence from earlier cases. See, as we know, there

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<v Speaker 1>were items that had been taken from victims, things like

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<v Speaker 1>jewelry and other personal belongings. They were beginning to be

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<v Speaker 1>traced through pawnshops, okay, and through that witnesses recalled seeing

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<v Speaker 1>a man or selling and carrying items that didn't belong

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<v Speaker 1>to him.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, because this is how he is affording life, basically

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<v Speaker 2>stealing people's jewelry or.

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever, Yes, exactly, so, then he's pawning it off and

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<v Speaker 1>using it for food, room board, all these sort of things,

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<v Speaker 1>and travel to the next city.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no kidding, okay, And though.

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<v Speaker 1>Looking back in this case from our perspective now, it's

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<v Speaker 1>very easy to understand that this was one man committing

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<v Speaker 1>all of these acts. I mean, we have all the

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<v Speaker 1>information right now. But as for authorities learning the description

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<v Speaker 1>of this man being the same in the pawn shop,

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<v Speaker 1>all learning all this in real time, basically, that's where

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<v Speaker 1>they began to really understand that they were not dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with multiple offenders or even a loosely connected group of crimes. Like, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>these situations might seem similar, but this is the moment

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<v Speaker 1>where they learned that they were in fact dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>one individual who's connecting them all together, and he was

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<v Speaker 1>in fact moving across the country, repeating the same method

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<v Speaker 1>city after city, because not only do you have the

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<v Speaker 1>same description from multiple locations, but you also have the

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<v Speaker 1>same description from pawnshops when items from these places are

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<v Speaker 1>turning up. So it was kind of the final check

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<v Speaker 1>mark on the list to say, holy shit, this is

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<v Speaker 1>the same man.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, us sitting here listening to all the details.

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like, how did you not figure that

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<v Speaker 2>out sooner?

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<v Speaker 1>But well it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's time too, yeah, the fact that he is

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<v Speaker 2>in a different area. Almost every murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you have different county in different states and

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<v Speaker 1>different cities. How can you be sure of a murder

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<v Speaker 1>occurring in this one is the same in that one.

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<v Speaker 1>They probably don't even know the murder occurred in the

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00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.320
<v Speaker 1>other state until like a month or two later when

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00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.360
<v Speaker 1>reports finally come across or newspaper articles talk about it

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<v Speaker 1>and someone happens to see it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and yeah, and these poor souls too aren't even

294
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:24.399
<v Speaker 2>don't have social media or ways of even realizing that

295
00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:26.879
<v Speaker 2>they're probably in as much danger as they are too,

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<v Speaker 2>Like the women who are renting out rooms.

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00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:31.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the civilians and stuff, how do they really know? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So authorities are trying to warn cities and stuff and saying, hey,

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00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>this guy's in the area. But by the time they're

300
00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.919
<v Speaker 1>warning that city, he's late. He's already in a whole

301
00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.639
<v Speaker 1>new city where people you're not warning are being targeted.

302
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Just so brutally sad.

303
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so this whole realization that it was this

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00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:52.240
<v Speaker 1>one culprit, it changed the whole scope of the case.

305
00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:54.960
<v Speaker 1>It was no longer about solving a single murder or

306
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.480
<v Speaker 1>even a cluster of them. It was about identifying and

307
00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:02.200
<v Speaker 1>stopping someone who was clearly traveling, freely, crossing all these

308
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.960
<v Speaker 1>jurisdictions and leaving behind a trail of death in his wake.

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00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.519
<v Speaker 1>The investigation had finally caught up to the idea of

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00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.000
<v Speaker 1>what was happening, but it hadn't caught up to the

311
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:16.039
<v Speaker 1>man responsible. By early June of nineteen twenty seven, after

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00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.440
<v Speaker 1>moving through cities across the United States, Earl Nelson made

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00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:25.000
<v Speaker 1>a different move. He crossed the border and arrived in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada,

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<v Speaker 1>sometime in the first week of June. As he had

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00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.359
<v Speaker 1>done in every other city, he presented himself as an

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00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.799
<v Speaker 1>ordinary man looking for a place to stay. He used

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00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.599
<v Speaker 1>an alias and began approaching boarding houses asking for available rooms,

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00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:42.359
<v Speaker 1>and on June eighth, nineteen twenty seven, a fourteen year

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<v Speaker 1>old girl named Lola Cohen suddenly went missing.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, so he's just finding a new area entirely.

321
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:53.799
<v Speaker 1>Exactly a whole new country even.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I hate this so much now.

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<v Speaker 1>Lola had worked as a flower girl selling flowers on

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<v Speaker 1>the street, and she'd been last seen going about her

325
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:07.079
<v Speaker 1>usual routine. When she didn't return, concern grew fast. At first,

326
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.759
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't immediately connected to anything. Larger missing persons cases,

327
00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.359
<v Speaker 1>especially involving young people, were not unheard of at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>but as time passed, the situation began to feel a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more serious, and two days later, on June tenth,

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<v Speaker 1>another incident brought everything into sharper focus. Emily Patterson, a

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00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:29.160
<v Speaker 1>woman who also rented out rooms in her home, was attacked.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the others before her. She had allowed a man

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<v Speaker 1>inside under the assumption that he was looking for a

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00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.519
<v Speaker 1>place to stay, but that interaction suit followed the same

335
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:42.799
<v Speaker 1>horrific pattern. But Emily fought back now because of that.

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<v Speaker 1>During the struggle, she managed to resist long enough to

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00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.880
<v Speaker 1>leave physical evidence behind. She pulled hair from her attacker

338
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:54.079
<v Speaker 1>and created enough disruption that the encounter didn't unfold the

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00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.640
<v Speaker 1>same way it previously had in other situations. Now the

340
00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:01.200
<v Speaker 1>attack was still very much so violent and aultimately Emily

341
00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:02.599
<v Speaker 1>was still killed as a.

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<v Speaker 2>Result, oh seriously, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Unlike most of the earlier cases, there was something tangible

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00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.039
<v Speaker 1>left behind that investigators could use.

345
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Now.

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00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:13.759
<v Speaker 1>By this point in time, the connection between the individuals

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00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.960
<v Speaker 1>in Winnipeg and the earlier cases in the United States

348
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.960
<v Speaker 1>was beginning to occur. The method in Canada was the

349
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.599
<v Speaker 1>same as it was in the USA. The approach was

350
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.079
<v Speaker 1>the same, and now within the same area, you have

351
00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.839
<v Speaker 1>two events that police had seen before. The connection was undeniable,

352
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.279
<v Speaker 1>and so police quickly began searching the boarding houses in

353
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:38.160
<v Speaker 1>the area, knowing the pattern of this individual, and at

354
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.599
<v Speaker 1>one of those houses, investigators were led to a room

355
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.920
<v Speaker 1>that had been recently occupied by a man using an alias,

356
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.000
<v Speaker 1>a man who fit that description. And when they searched

357
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:53.880
<v Speaker 1>that room, they found what they were looking for. Lola Cohen,

358
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.680
<v Speaker 1>the missing fourteen year old girl, was found dead and

359
00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:01.720
<v Speaker 1>shoved under the bed. I was not expecting that she

360
00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:02.920
<v Speaker 1>had been strangled to death.

361
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.240
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. And he's just hiding her where he's staying.

362
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Yep, well he's not staying there anymore. He's already gone,

363
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:11.079
<v Speaker 1>but he stayed there.

364
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.079
<v Speaker 2>And he left behind the souvenir of a body.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, basically, whoo okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I also just have to say that is like so

367
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.440
<v Speaker 2>badass of that one woman to like pull a clump

368
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:27.000
<v Speaker 2>of hair out of someone's head. You gotta fight, Well, yeah,

369
00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.759
<v Speaker 2>that's that is like she really did put up a fight.

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<v Speaker 2>That's incredible.

371
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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not saying that's these victims, some of them

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00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.119
<v Speaker 1>were not fighting. All I'm saying is, if all you

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<v Speaker 1>have is to rip out hair, do it. If all

374
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:40.920
<v Speaker 1>you have is to bite, do it. If all you

375
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.240
<v Speaker 1>have is to grab hold of flesh and dig nails in,

376
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:45.559
<v Speaker 1>do it.

377
00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.759
<v Speaker 2>Well. I mean, each scenario is just so different, right.

378
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:51.680
<v Speaker 2>It depends how caught off guard the victim is and

379
00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:53.960
<v Speaker 2>exactly the size difference and stuff.

380
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<v Speaker 1>So for sure, just do anything you can. It's important.

381
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<v Speaker 1>It could be your survival could mean catching someone. Even

382
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.160
<v Speaker 1>if you unfortunately do not survive.

383
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.559
<v Speaker 2>They're gonna save other people exactly. Now.

384
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.480
<v Speaker 1>For investigators, this officially meant her story wasn't just a

385
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.279
<v Speaker 1>local case anymore. It was in fact a part of

386
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.200
<v Speaker 1>the same pattern that had been appearing across the United States,

387
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.480
<v Speaker 1>and it was now unfolding in their own city. The difference, however,

388
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:24.400
<v Speaker 1>this time, was the person responsible hadn't completely disappeared before

389
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:27.960
<v Speaker 1>the connection was made. There was in fact still a window,

390
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:32.079
<v Speaker 1>small but very much so real. He might still be

391
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:34.960
<v Speaker 1>in the city, He might still be within reach. They

392
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.920
<v Speaker 1>caught up to him fast enough, so police began moving

393
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.799
<v Speaker 1>quickly through the information they had, and investigators started retracing

394
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.559
<v Speaker 1>his steps, speaking to anyone who might have interacted with

395
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:47.799
<v Speaker 1>him in any sort of the days leading up to

396
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:48.559
<v Speaker 1>this discovery.

397
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:51.759
<v Speaker 2>This is good because this has been a rarity, right.

398
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, So this is good. They had this one chance,

399
00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:58.640
<v Speaker 1>this one shot, one opportunity. Sorry, I'm in an eminem reference,

400
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.440
<v Speaker 1>but oh, I was like, that is from something else,

401
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.880
<v Speaker 1>legitimate though, that is the case. A barber came forward

402
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.079
<v Speaker 1>recalling a customer who had recently come in with noticeable injuries.

403
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:13.680
<v Speaker 1>He had scratches on his freight, on his face, fresh

404
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:18.319
<v Speaker 1>enough in fact, that they stood out to him immediately. Now,

405
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:20.359
<v Speaker 1>he didn't think too much about it at the time.

406
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.559
<v Speaker 1>When you look at it in hindsight, well, there was

407
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:26.960
<v Speaker 1>a bit of a different meaning. This person who had

408
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.039
<v Speaker 1>just killed while they were attacked, their victim fought back.

409
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Those scratches were most definitely left behind in that scenario. Now,

410
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.079
<v Speaker 1>around the same time, more items began to surface, more

411
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.519
<v Speaker 1>stolen items jewelry that had been taken from victims in

412
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:45.480
<v Speaker 1>earlier cases was traced through local pawnshops again, and pawnbrokers

413
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.119
<v Speaker 1>and store owners described a man who had come in

414
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.720
<v Speaker 1>to sell or exchange items that didn't quite fit his

415
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:54.759
<v Speaker 1>appearance or situation. Now, with each new piece of information,

416
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.200
<v Speaker 1>the description of the suspect became more and more specific.

417
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:02.160
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't anything so broadly described anymore as just a

418
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:05.920
<v Speaker 1>stocky man. It was a man with recent facial scratches,

419
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.759
<v Speaker 1>moving under an alias, carrying stolen items, and renting rooms

420
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:14.759
<v Speaker 1>and boarding houses shortly before violent incidents occur. Now police

421
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:19.200
<v Speaker 1>issued descriptions to surrounding areas and began coordinating with nearby towns,

422
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:22.920
<v Speaker 1>something that hadn't been done effectively in early stages of

423
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:27.079
<v Speaker 1>this investigation. And by the middle of June nineteen twenty seven,

424
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:31.440
<v Speaker 1>the search had officially extended beyond Winnipeg and into the

425
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:35.480
<v Speaker 1>surrounding region, with attention focused on the possibility that he

426
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.279
<v Speaker 1>might try and leave the area, and on June fifteenth,

427
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:46.119
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty seven, that possibility became a reality. Now, near

428
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:49.680
<v Speaker 1>the town of Wacopa, Manitoba, close to the United States border,

429
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>a man was stopped by local authorities. He identified himself

430
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.160
<v Speaker 1>as a man named Virgil Wilson, which was one of

431
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:01.119
<v Speaker 1>the aliases that had begun to surface during the investigation. Now,

432
00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:03.799
<v Speaker 1>he was calm, cooperative and didn't give the impression of

433
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.559
<v Speaker 1>being someone trying to avoid arrest, and that calmness worked

434
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.759
<v Speaker 1>in his favor. The officers who detained him were not

435
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.200
<v Speaker 1>immediately certain they had the right person that they were

436
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.720
<v Speaker 1>looking for, but still he was taken to the Killarney

437
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.039
<v Speaker 1>Town Hall lock up, where he was placed in a

438
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:22.240
<v Speaker 1>holding cell while the officers attempted to try and confirm

439
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.799
<v Speaker 1>who he was and contact authorities in Winnipeg. Now, at

440
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.799
<v Speaker 1>that point it seemed like the situation was finally about

441
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.880
<v Speaker 1>to come to an end. However, we have to remember

442
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:40.039
<v Speaker 1>early patterns in Earl's behavior early when he was in institutions.

443
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Because while officers stepped away briefly to make contact to

444
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.119
<v Speaker 1>verify the arrest, the man they had taken into custody

445
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:50.440
<v Speaker 1>began to work his way out. Using a piece of wire,

446
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.160
<v Speaker 1>he managed to manipulate the handcuffs and free himself, And

447
00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:57.359
<v Speaker 1>when officers returned to the cell, the door was open

448
00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:00.960
<v Speaker 1>and the man they had just arrested was gone. Earle

449
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:02.680
<v Speaker 1>had escaped custody.

450
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh you're fricking kidding me. They were that damn close.

451
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 1>They were that close now, rightfully, so what followed was

452
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:14.680
<v Speaker 1>immediate panic. Word spread quickly through the Clarney area and

453
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.640
<v Speaker 1>surrounding areas too. If this was in fact the man

454
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.039
<v Speaker 1>they believed it was, and he was not just a suspect,

455
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:22.599
<v Speaker 1>he was someone who had already been linked to multiple

456
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:24.920
<v Speaker 1>murders at this point, and the idea that he was

457
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.400
<v Speaker 1>now just loose again, aware that authorities were close to

458
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:33.039
<v Speaker 1>catching him, well, it triggered a massive response. Residents were

459
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:37.119
<v Speaker 1>warned and many gathered together in central locations for safety. Also,

460
00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.799
<v Speaker 1>men organized into search groups and began moving through the countryside,

461
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.039
<v Speaker 1>making sure they were armed, checking buildings, barns, and open

462
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.920
<v Speaker 1>land looking for him. It was no longer just a

463
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 1>police search. It had become a community effort to find

464
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.599
<v Speaker 1>someone who had already proven how quickly he could move

465
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:58.759
<v Speaker 1>and how easily he could disappear. Now that night, while

466
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 1>search efforts were underwe, Earl found shelter in a nearby barn,

467
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.960
<v Speaker 1>avoiding detection as people searched the area around him. By

468
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the next morning, he was on the move again, headed

469
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:13.200
<v Speaker 1>towards a train station with the intention of leaving the area,

470
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.759
<v Speaker 1>but this time the movement he relied on for so

471
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.599
<v Speaker 1>long worked against him. When he boarded the train, he

472
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.279
<v Speaker 1>believed he was headed back towards the United States, but

473
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:26.359
<v Speaker 1>instead the train took him in the opposite direction, towards

474
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Crystal City, where authorities had already been alerted and were

475
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:30.960
<v Speaker 1>waiting for him.

476
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, here we go.

477
00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.319
<v Speaker 1>When the train arrived, officers were prepared and as he

478
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:40.920
<v Speaker 1>stepped off, he was met by police. This time there

479
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.799
<v Speaker 1>was no confusion, there was no delay, and no opportunity

480
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 1>to slip away. He was taken into custody, and this

481
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.640
<v Speaker 1>time he remained there. After more than a year of

482
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.359
<v Speaker 1>moving from city to city, entering homes, committing murders, and

483
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:59.519
<v Speaker 1>leaving before anyone could ever stop him, the man investigators

484
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:03.960
<v Speaker 1>had been trying to identify was finally in cuffs. He

485
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.920
<v Speaker 1>was transported back to Winnipeg, and the focus of the

486
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>investigation soon shifted to proving who he was and going

487
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.480
<v Speaker 1>through the evidence that had been building across all of

488
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:15.160
<v Speaker 1>these murders.

489
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, and yeah, at this point too, it's two countries

490
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.680
<v Speaker 2>where he's committed crimes for sure.

491
00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Now, if you might remember, one of the pieces of

492
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.559
<v Speaker 1>evidence that they had on him was fingerprints. Right at

493
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 1>the time they were taken, there was no identity to

494
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.799
<v Speaker 1>attach them to. But now with a suspecting custody, well,

495
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.400
<v Speaker 1>there was finally something they can compare it against, and

496
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:38.079
<v Speaker 1>when they compared it, they had a match.

497
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

498
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.559
<v Speaker 1>It was one of the first concrete links that officially

499
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.680
<v Speaker 1>tied him to the earlier killings, but other details began

500
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.079
<v Speaker 1>to align as well. Witnesses from different cities were brought

501
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:50.920
<v Speaker 1>in or consulted with, and their descriptions of that man

502
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:53.519
<v Speaker 1>that they had seen began to match more closely now

503
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 1>with what there was as a person in front of them.

504
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.799
<v Speaker 1>The stocky bill, the large hands, the quiet demeanor, all

505
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:03.160
<v Speaker 1>of it lined up with what had been reported. There

506
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.960
<v Speaker 1>was also physical evidence that supported those connections to injuries

507
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:09.480
<v Speaker 1>that had been noticed earliers. The scratches on the face,

508
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:12.839
<v Speaker 1>for example, it fit with accounts from victims who had resisted.

509
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:15.599
<v Speaker 1>But still at the center of it all was the

510
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:20.079
<v Speaker 1>question of his identity. Who was he now? Eventually, through

511
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:24.119
<v Speaker 1>fingerprint records and prior arrests, investigators were able to track

512
00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:28.559
<v Speaker 1>him down for his real name. This was Earl Leonard Nelson,

513
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.119
<v Speaker 1>and with that his history began to surface, with it

514
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:36.480
<v Speaker 1>his time in San Quentin, his multiple arrests, his institutionalization,

515
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.680
<v Speaker 1>and the earlier violent incident in nineteen twenty one. Well,

516
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.039
<v Speaker 1>he now had a name, a history and a record

517
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.559
<v Speaker 1>that could be followed. Cases from across the United States

518
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:49.880
<v Speaker 1>were now being reviewed in light of his arrests, because remember,

519
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of them. They had pieced together many,

520
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:55.559
<v Speaker 1>but there were still finding all these different ones that

521
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:59.359
<v Speaker 1>were possibly aligned with him. Now, some could be tied

522
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to him more direct than others, but the similarities were

523
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:06.359
<v Speaker 1>very consistent enough that authorities began linking him to many

524
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 1>of these larger number of killings. Still, despite the evidence,

525
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Earl did not confess. He simply denied responsibility for his

526
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:17.000
<v Speaker 1>crimes that he was being connected to. But by that point,

527
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:20.480
<v Speaker 1>the combination of physical evidence, witness accounts, and the pattern

528
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:23.160
<v Speaker 1>that was already established. While it was enough to move

529
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.519
<v Speaker 1>forward even without his cooperation, and they had enough to

530
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:30.640
<v Speaker 1>take the case to trial. Now, despite the number of

531
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.880
<v Speaker 1>killings that had been linked to him across the United States,

532
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:37.920
<v Speaker 1>he was going to first stand for his crimes on

533
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.599
<v Speaker 1>Canadian soil in Winnipeg, Manitoba, and only for the murder

534
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.920
<v Speaker 1>of Emily Patterson. It was the case they had the

535
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.440
<v Speaker 1>strongest evidence on and they decided only to pursue it

536
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.359
<v Speaker 1>to try and secure their conviction. Okay, and Emily was

537
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.839
<v Speaker 1>the fourteen year old. Right, No, Emily was the one

538
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.480
<v Speaker 1>who had fought back but still died, one who had

539
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:01.119
<v Speaker 1>pulled hair.

540
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, that seems surprising to me that they feel

541
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 2>like they had more evidence there when the other one

542
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:09.799
<v Speaker 2>they had the body like under the bed.

543
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:12.799
<v Speaker 1>Well, she had fought back, she pulled hair, like there

544
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.680
<v Speaker 1>was a bit more. Whatever their reasoning was, they had

545
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.160
<v Speaker 1>more evidence on the Emily case and they figured it

546
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:19.920
<v Speaker 1>was stronger, so that was the one they were going

547
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:20.480
<v Speaker 1>to pursue.

548
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Now.

549
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.839
<v Speaker 1>The trial officially began on November one, nineteen twenty seven,

550
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:29.680
<v Speaker 1>inside a Manitoba courtroom, presided over by Judge Andrew dissert Now.

551
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.440
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution was led by R. B. Graham, while the

552
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.000
<v Speaker 1>defense was handled by James H. Did it Now. Over

553
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.599
<v Speaker 1>the course of the proceedings, the prosecution laid out the

554
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:41.839
<v Speaker 1>case in its entirety. It was built on a combination

555
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.359
<v Speaker 1>of physical evidence, witness testimony, and the sequence of events

556
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:49.799
<v Speaker 1>leading up to the arrest. They presented details of Emily's death,

557
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:51.799
<v Speaker 1>the condition in which she had been found, and the

558
00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:55.000
<v Speaker 1>evidence recovered from the scene itself, for example, the hair.

559
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.400
<v Speaker 1>They also introduced items that had been traced back to

560
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:01.359
<v Speaker 1>Earl from pawnshops, and this has played a very significant

561
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:04.680
<v Speaker 1>role too. People who had encountered him in the days

562
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:07.559
<v Speaker 1>leading up to the murder. They described his behavior and

563
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.799
<v Speaker 1>his movements. The barbershop who noticed the injuries on his face,

564
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.799
<v Speaker 1>testified about the condition that he was in at the time,

565
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:17.480
<v Speaker 1>aligning with earlier accounts of a struggle. Others described seeing

566
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.079
<v Speaker 1>him in possession of items that had been taken from victims,

567
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:24.359
<v Speaker 1>all placing him within a clear timeline that led directly

568
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:27.480
<v Speaker 1>to the crime. When it came time for the defense,

569
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.880
<v Speaker 1>they didn't attempt to argue that Earle had been misidentified

570
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:35.440
<v Speaker 1>or that he had no connection to the events in question. Instead,

571
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:39.359
<v Speaker 1>their strategy focused on his mental state. They argued that

572
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:42.440
<v Speaker 1>he was not legally responsible for his actions, pointing to

573
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:48.559
<v Speaker 1>his long history of instability and institutionalizations and documented health issues.

574
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Testimony also introduced suggestions that he was suffering from a

575
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:58.000
<v Speaker 1>condition that impaired his ability to understand or control his behavior,

576
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:02.200
<v Speaker 1>and among those who spoke on this was doctor Alvin Mathers,

577
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>a psychiatrist who had evaluated him and offered insight into

578
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:09.200
<v Speaker 1>his conditions. There were also attempts outside the courtroom to

579
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:13.200
<v Speaker 1>influence the outcome. Appeals for clemency were made supported by

580
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Speaker 1>affidavids that described his mental instability and argued that execution,

581
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:21.880
<v Speaker 1>which is what the prosecution was after, was not appropriate.

582
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:22.000
<v Speaker 2>For this case.

583
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:25.720
<v Speaker 1>They brought up whether he was even someone who should

584
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:28.440
<v Speaker 1>have been punished in a traditional sense at all, or

585
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:32.319
<v Speaker 1>someone who should have remained confined in a medical setting instead.

586
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:35.480
<v Speaker 1>But inside the courtroom, the jury was focused on the

587
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 1>evidence in front of them, and after hearing the testimony

588
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:43.160
<v Speaker 1>and reviewing the case, the deliberations were extremely brief. In

589
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.519
<v Speaker 1>less than an hour, the jury returned with their verdict.

590
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:52.279
<v Speaker 1>They found Earl Nelson guilty of the murder of Emily Patterson,

591
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 1>and Earle was sentenced to death.

592
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh just like that, but honestly the what the defense

593
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:04.039
<v Speaker 2>was wanting. Like he would have just been in there

594
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.920
<v Speaker 2>and it would have just been the same old He

595
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.680
<v Speaker 2>would have escaped and he would have continued doing the

596
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:11.599
<v Speaker 2>freaking brutal shit that he's been doing.

597
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, not necessarily, because with this sentence, this meant Earle

598
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:21.440
<v Speaker 1>would never be tried in the USA. He would have

599
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:26.039
<v Speaker 1>to serve his sentence in Canada first before heading back

600
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:30.880
<v Speaker 1>to the States to be tried, So if he didn't

601
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.119
<v Speaker 1>get the death sentence, he could have served a sentence

602
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:36.480
<v Speaker 1>and then been moved over to the States. Would have

603
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.039
<v Speaker 1>probably been locked up indefinitely, probably keeping a close eye

604
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:44.720
<v Speaker 1>on him, knowing his history. Okay, interesting, but considering that

605
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.039
<v Speaker 1>he was getting the death penalty, he never got tried

606
00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:52.680
<v Speaker 1>on American soil, which means, technically speaking, he is only

607
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.359
<v Speaker 1>guilty of one murder, which.

608
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:59.240
<v Speaker 2>We very much so know and that he wasn't And

609
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:01.759
<v Speaker 2>I guess this is so far back in the day

610
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.039
<v Speaker 2>that when you git the death penalty, you actually get

611
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.880
<v Speaker 2>the death penalty.

612
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:07.319
<v Speaker 1>Basically.

613
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

614
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.679
<v Speaker 1>So early in November of nineteen twenty seven, Earl Nelson

615
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.760
<v Speaker 1>was transferred to death row in Winnipeg. The legal process

616
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 1>had moved quickly, his arrest in June, the trial in November,

617
00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:20.760
<v Speaker 1>and now a sentence that was left well with little

618
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:23.679
<v Speaker 1>uncertainty about what was to come. There were attempts to

619
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:25.639
<v Speaker 1>intervene in the weeks that followed, but none of them

620
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.320
<v Speaker 1>changed what had already been decided. During his time in custody,

621
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:32.199
<v Speaker 1>he continued to deny any sort of responsibility for the

622
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:34.760
<v Speaker 1>crimes that he had been connected to. He did not

623
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.239
<v Speaker 1>offer a confession, he did not provide any broader explanation

624
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.280
<v Speaker 1>for the pattern of the killings that he had been

625
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.599
<v Speaker 1>tied to, why, or anything. What remained was the evidence

626
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.800
<v Speaker 1>that was presented in court and the verdict that followed.

627
00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:51.639
<v Speaker 1>Efforts were also made to have his sentence reconsidered, but

628
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:56.239
<v Speaker 1>they were ultimately denied and the original sentence stood. On

629
00:34:56.280 --> 00:35:00.559
<v Speaker 1>the morning of January thirteenth, nineteen twenty eight, acution was

630
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:04.880
<v Speaker 1>carried out at the Vaughn Street Jail in Winnipeg. The

631
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.719
<v Speaker 1>time was set for seven thirty am. Earl Nelson was

632
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.039
<v Speaker 1>brought to the gallows, where he was prepared for hanging.

633
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.639
<v Speaker 1>In the moments before his execution, he spoke briefly. Accounts

634
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:18.199
<v Speaker 1>vary slightly on the wording, but the message is still

635
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the same. He expressed forgiveness towards those who he believed

636
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>wronged him and maintained that he was innocent for his crimes.

637
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:29.480
<v Speaker 1>There was no admission of guilt even in the very end.

638
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.679
<v Speaker 1>The execution proceeded as scheduled, and when the trap door

639
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:38.400
<v Speaker 1>in the gallows was released, the drop did not immediately

640
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>result in a clean break of his neck, which was

641
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.480
<v Speaker 1>the intended outcome of a hanging, and that is what

642
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.679
<v Speaker 1>they were meant to do, break the neck, not strangle, yep.

643
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.639
<v Speaker 1>But instead Earl's death came much more slowly, as he

644
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>was strangled by the full weight of his body, being

645
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:56.880
<v Speaker 1>tangled in the rope around his neck for several minutes.

646
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, you almost I don't know if I'm alone

647
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.559
<v Speaker 2>to say this, but something was making that him suffer.

648
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:10.639
<v Speaker 1>Well. My next sentence goes like this. This wasn't something

649
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:12.679
<v Speaker 1>that was unusual for the time. A hanging can go

650
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.079
<v Speaker 1>wrong easily, but it added a final twist of ironic

651
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.039
<v Speaker 1>fate to his end. He strangled his victims, and ultimately

652
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:22.000
<v Speaker 1>he endured the same demise.

653
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know. I feel like something of higher

654
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:29.079
<v Speaker 2>power was like, nobody, your neck's not getting broken. Yeah,

655
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:31.239
<v Speaker 2>we're dragging this on for you.

656
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:35.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm not someone who necessarily believes in fate or necessarily

657
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:39.079
<v Speaker 1>believes in karma either, but it's hard to think otherwise

658
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:40.239
<v Speaker 1>in that situation.

659
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

660
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Now, with Earl Nelson's execution, the immediate threat he posed

661
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:46.800
<v Speaker 1>was finally gone, but the full scope of what had

662
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.679
<v Speaker 1>happened didn't resolve quite as cleanly. He had been convicted

663
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:55.320
<v Speaker 1>of only a single murder. The killing of Emily Patterson

664
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:58.440
<v Speaker 1>in Winnipeg that was the charge of court could prove

665
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.840
<v Speaker 1>the one that fell within its jurisdiction and the one

666
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.000
<v Speaker 1>that ultimately led to his execution. But by the time

667
00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:07.920
<v Speaker 1>the trial was concluded, investigators on both sides of the

668
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:11.280
<v Speaker 1>border were already looking far beyond just that one case.

669
00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Across the United States and Canada, authorities began reviewing unsolved

670
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:19.719
<v Speaker 1>murders that matched the very same pattern. Some of those

671
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.840
<v Speaker 1>cases could be tied to him more directly through evidence, timing,

672
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.159
<v Speaker 1>or witness accounts, but others remained a lot less certain,

673
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:31.760
<v Speaker 1>connected through pattern and circumstance alone rather than definitive proof.

674
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:35.400
<v Speaker 1>As a result, the number of victims attributed to Earl

675
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Nelson the Gorilla Killer has always carried some degree of

676
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.360
<v Speaker 1>uncertainty and a lot of debate. The most commonly cited

677
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 1>figure along his name is at least twenty two victims,

678
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:51.679
<v Speaker 1>though some estimates they suggest the number may be much

679
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:52.440
<v Speaker 1>higher than that.

680
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.760
<v Speaker 2>I was honestly expecting the number to be higher than that.

681
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:58.800
<v Speaker 2>That is still a huge number, yes, but yeah, I

682
00:37:58.840 --> 00:37:59.519
<v Speaker 2>bet you anything.

683
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Is it likely is?

684
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.559
<v Speaker 2>Yes? Just because of how quickly was murdering people like

685
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:10.559
<v Speaker 2>it would sometimes be one each day, like there wasn't

686
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.199
<v Speaker 2>very much time in between some of these frickin' murders.

687
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:17.679
<v Speaker 1>You're right, it was quick, fast, and constant. Now, twenty

688
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:19.400
<v Speaker 1>two is not a number to scoff out. In fact,

689
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.519
<v Speaker 1>it's a profound body count in all honesty. But what

690
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.440
<v Speaker 1>makes this case stand out isn't just that number alone,

691
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:29.119
<v Speaker 1>but how it unfolded. Earle moved across multiple states and

692
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.360
<v Speaker 1>into Canada at a time when there was no effective

693
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>system for tracking a single offender across jurisdictions, and as

694
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:41.199
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned, it was fast, day after day, and each

695
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:44.280
<v Speaker 1>police department worked its own case, often without knowing what

696
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 1>had happened elsewhere until much later. They're focusing on their day,

697
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:52.119
<v Speaker 1>their victim, their murder, their case, not seeing the broader picture,

698
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 1>because how could they. The idea that one person could

699
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 1>be responsible for a series of murders spreading across such

700
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:01.320
<v Speaker 1>a wide area was not something investigate were even equipped

701
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:05.039
<v Speaker 1>to recognize immediately, and by the time those connections were made,

702
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:09.599
<v Speaker 1>the events had already taken place. The case would later

703
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 1>be looked at as one of the earliest examples of

704
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.679
<v Speaker 1>what would come to be understood as a serial killing pattern,

705
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.199
<v Speaker 1>one individual operating over time, targeting similar victims and repeating

706
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:26.280
<v Speaker 1>the same method across different locations. But in the nineteen

707
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:29.039
<v Speaker 1>twenties that framework didn't exist in the way it does now.

708
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:34.199
<v Speaker 1>Investigators were learning it as they went, basically building an

709
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:37.599
<v Speaker 1>understanding of the pattern only after it was already developed.

710
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Because of that severe disconnect, we still do not know

711
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.639
<v Speaker 1>the full story behind what had happened. Even after his arrest,

712
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:50.199
<v Speaker 1>so many questions still remained. He never confessed to the

713
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.840
<v Speaker 1>crimes that he was accused of. There was no final

714
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.599
<v Speaker 1>statement that explained his actions, no account that filled in

715
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:59.719
<v Speaker 1>the gaps between cities or clarified how he chose victims

716
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.679
<v Speaker 1>or why he did it in the first place. What

717
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:06.199
<v Speaker 1>was left instead was the record where investigators tried to

718
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:09.960
<v Speaker 1>catch up. So in the end, the case didn't close

719
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:13.840
<v Speaker 1>with the complete explanation. It closed with a name, a timeline,

720
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:18.000
<v Speaker 1>and series of connections that stretched across an entire continent. Though,

721
00:40:18.559 --> 00:40:21.360
<v Speaker 1>and for those who had been directly affected, the families

722
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.719
<v Speaker 1>the victims, and the communities where the killings took place,

723
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:28.679
<v Speaker 1>the impact was huge for investigators too. It became a

724
00:40:29.199 --> 00:40:32.559
<v Speaker 1>reference point and a textbook example of an not the

725
00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:35.519
<v Speaker 1>beginning of this kind of violence, but one of the

726
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:39.639
<v Speaker 1>first times it had been seen so clearly and across

727
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:44.280
<v Speaker 1>enough distance in time to recognize for what it really was.

728
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.880
<v Speaker 1>A serial killer. And that's the story of Earl Nelson,

729
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:51.440
<v Speaker 1>the Gorilla Killer.

730
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:58.119
<v Speaker 2>Such a savage mofo. Yeah, it was very serial killers

731
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.400
<v Speaker 2>are just very disturbing, I know, And one of the

732
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:03.719
<v Speaker 2>things that disturbed me so much about this.

733
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:10.480
<v Speaker 1>I almost believe Earl that he truly thought he was innocent.

734
00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:13.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if he knew what he was really doing.

735
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Are you serious?

736
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:16.119
<v Speaker 1>I kind of.

737
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Feel I think he was just very mentally unstable.

738
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I do think so, oh what though?

739
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:28.559
<v Speaker 2>You I don't to just not remember killing twenty two

740
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.320
<v Speaker 2>people though, and thinking you're an innocent man.

741
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a massive claim, trust me, I get it.

742
00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:36.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I believe my own opinion on

743
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.880
<v Speaker 1>this one, but I just have this gut feeling in

744
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:44.079
<v Speaker 1>me that something was going on in his head that

745
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:47.519
<v Speaker 1>he didn't even know was going on, and whether he

746
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:52.039
<v Speaker 1>actually blacked out like many people claim they did or not,

747
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 1>or there was something different going on. I truly believe

748
00:41:56.039 --> 00:42:01.159
<v Speaker 1>that Earle was not the gorilla killer. I believe that

749
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.239
<v Speaker 1>something else in Earl was the Gorilla killer, if that

750
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:06.079
<v Speaker 1>makes any sense.

751
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Earl had a terrible life. His whole life

752
00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:09.760
<v Speaker 2>was a shit.

753
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm not saying.

754
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.599
<v Speaker 2>Like he made a lot of other people's life very shitty.

755
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:21.320
<v Speaker 2>But if this was nowadays, yeah, I don't think he

756
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:26.000
<v Speaker 2>probably wouldn't have been. What's like, he wouldn't have been

757
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 2>able or fit for trial is probably what the outcome

758
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:29.920
<v Speaker 2>would have been.

759
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Probably wouldn't have been. I don't think he would have been.

760
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.119
<v Speaker 1>And I want to clarify, I'm not saying that Earl

761
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:38.760
<v Speaker 1>was a good guy. I just think there is a

762
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:43.000
<v Speaker 1>separation between the killer in him and Earl.

763
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I like how you had your hands up like, don't

764
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:46.440
<v Speaker 2>come at me.

765
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, Earl is a piece of shit. Yea, but

766
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:52.360
<v Speaker 1>he is a piece of shit. But I do think

767
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.679
<v Speaker 1>that he was not fully aware of his actions, and

768
00:42:55.760 --> 00:42:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I do not think he was fit to stand trial.

769
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:05.199
<v Speaker 2>It's a little bit frustrating to I mean, just I'm

770
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:07.840
<v Speaker 2>struggling because you don't really get to know his motivation

771
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:10.239
<v Speaker 2>or anything. Was it just that like was I guess

772
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:14.920
<v Speaker 2>was he meant seriously mentally ill? Was it sexually motivated?

773
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Was he did, he just like actually killing people, you know,

774
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:20.360
<v Speaker 2>like you don't really know.

775
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:23.760
<v Speaker 1>No, we don't. And that's another disturbing part of this

776
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:27.519
<v Speaker 1>story is we do not know those answers, the in betweens.

777
00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because yeah, that's one thing that's very interesting about

778
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:35.239
<v Speaker 2>serial killers is you know, figuring out their motivation and

779
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.119
<v Speaker 2>why they're doing this and stuff. But sometimes it's such

780
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:40.440
<v Speaker 2>a fucked up reason that it's just they like killing people,

781
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.559
<v Speaker 2>which is yeah, weird.

782
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Which you can't understand. There's been stories before where you know,

783
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:48.840
<v Speaker 1>I like to play the devil's advocate here, right, and

784
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.920
<v Speaker 1>there's stories where I can't even do that because it's

785
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:54.719
<v Speaker 1>just like, what the fuck was that? Like I can't

786
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.199
<v Speaker 1>defend that, Not that I want to defend it, but

787
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:57.599
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean.

788
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.239
<v Speaker 2>The idea, well, I read something today. If you can

789
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:05.960
<v Speaker 2>literally not understand or comprehend why someone is doing something,

790
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:09.519
<v Speaker 2>it's because you would yourself never be able to do that.

791
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:12.199
<v Speaker 1>That's a good way. I love that.

792
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:14.559
<v Speaker 2>So I think that's kind of like the reasoning.

793
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Wow, And maybe that's why I sympathize with Earle, because

794
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the only way I could ever commit that something like

795
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.800
<v Speaker 1>that is if there was a detachment and it was

796
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.760
<v Speaker 1>not me. Yeah, and maybe that's why I'm kind of

797
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:29.559
<v Speaker 1>like seeing that because I have a feeling there's that

798
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:31.519
<v Speaker 1>in him, and that could be the only way I'd

799
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:33.199
<v Speaker 1>ever do it myself. Not that I would do it,

800
00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:33.480
<v Speaker 1>but you.

801
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Know what I mean, right, Wow, But like, but it

802
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:40.440
<v Speaker 2>is hard to understand too that a switch just flips,

803
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, and then I don't know, but he does

804
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.679
<v Speaker 2>put himself in the scenario too, to be alone with

805
00:44:48.039 --> 00:44:50.639
<v Speaker 2>a female in these boarding houses and stuff.

806
00:44:50.519 --> 00:44:52.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh, one hundred percent. So that's why I think he's

807
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.000
<v Speaker 1>still a piece of shit. He's still putting himself there.

808
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:59.079
<v Speaker 1>He's still following this pattern. But is he like as

809
00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:01.639
<v Speaker 1>soon as their backs like something switches in him and

810
00:45:01.639 --> 00:45:04.519
<v Speaker 1>then he just kills and then he walks out and

811
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:07.280
<v Speaker 1>comes to and doesn't know what happened, and off to

812
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:07.960
<v Speaker 1>the next place.

813
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:13.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, maybe, I mean both scenarios are terrifying.

814
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, isn't it so dark as fuck no matter how

815
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:17.400
<v Speaker 1>you look at it.

816
00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But well, on that note, have a great day.

817
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:23.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thank you for being here. Hopefully enjoyed the story

818
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.119
<v Speaker 1>of the Gorilla Killer. As I mentioned last episode, We're

819
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:28.119
<v Speaker 1>gonna go and go down the rabbit Hole and a

820
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:30.920
<v Speaker 1>few more serial killers here for the next little while.

821
00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully you're ready for that, because there's going to be

822
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:36.199
<v Speaker 1>some dark stories coming, but for now, thank you for

823
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:38.280
<v Speaker 1>being here. Don't forget to check out the description of

824
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.960
<v Speaker 1>this podcast. We have our links, all that sort of stuff.

825
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:43.000
<v Speaker 1>We have a new website that's coming up pretty soon,

826
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.280
<v Speaker 1>so watch out for that. Shoot us a message, let

827
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:49.000
<v Speaker 1>us know your opinion, and of course, as always, until

828
00:45:49.039 --> 00:48:18.000
<v Speaker 1>next time, stay wicked thing. Oh oh,
