1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,879 Speaker 1: Hello, lazy and gentlemen, Welcome back to another episode of 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,160 geek Verse podcast. I am a one year host. Is 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,279 that a monkey? Taylor Field? And I'm joined by. 4 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 2: Hey, I'm anna Mark Caster Dilmas. 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,919 Speaker 1: Yes, unfortunately we lost our one of our own in 6 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:16,120 the arena in the coliseum. 7 00:00:16,199 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, we wouldn't have it any other way than a 8 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:20,839 duel here between. Well, we'll see if me and you 9 00:00:20,839 --> 00:00:25,399 are allies or adversaries on this podcast. My thoughts, I guess. 10 00:00:25,399 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, because we're talking gladiator to spoilers 11 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:30,679 of you. But before we get to that, a couple 12 00:00:30,679 --> 00:00:33,039 of plugs. You can find us with your Internet connection 13 00:00:33,439 --> 00:00:35,520 in the search bar. Geek Versatia is our home based 14 00:00:35,679 --> 00:00:37,640 vers cast on our Twitter. Geek Versus is our Facebook. 15 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:39,320 Be sure to check this out on Patreon, where we 16 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:44,000 get ad free early exclusive episodes available. There also the 17 00:00:44,119 --> 00:00:48,359 legendary folks that are on our Patreon Producer Tier, You 18 00:00:48,359 --> 00:00:52,320 guys are fantastic, April of Darkness, Aaron Braiden, Jack Grant, Mud, Sam, 19 00:00:52,359 --> 00:00:55,039 Super Bad, Mic God Loves Me sixty nine, Jeremy Reyner 20 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,600 Detall you folks are fantastic. Love you all, help keep 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,640 the lights on. So what else do we got going 22 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:05,760 on here? We did a side quest, inn't we? Dylan, 23 00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:06,480 me and you. 24 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, look at us to two man casts in a week. 25 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:10,959 I feel like it's been a bit since that's happened, 26 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,159 but it's been a bit. 27 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: It's been a bit. Yes, what else do we got 28 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,159 going on right now? Being Kirkly going to be dropping 29 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:25,799 ed Daredevil sees one retrospective that'll be dropping. I'm excited 30 00:01:25,799 --> 00:01:29,439 to chat about. That's gonna be dropping early on the 31 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,879 Patreon and then it should be dropping. I think probably 32 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,840 we're slating it for just very early December on the 33 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,120 public feeds, so stay tuned for that. What do we 34 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:39,760 got We're going in December? So we've got a lot 35 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,439 of other stuff that we're going to be reviewing. We've 36 00:01:41,439 --> 00:01:44,000 got like Sonic three and other movies that are coming 37 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:46,760 our way, and I think we got Skeleton Crew, Star Wars, 38 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,000 and we got Creature Commandos as well, DC's show. So 39 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,079 lots of stuff that's going to be populating on our feed. 40 00:01:53,079 --> 00:01:55,959 It's gonna be a great time. No Wicked review unless 41 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,359 you're doing that, Dylan, absolutely not. Yeah, So there's that uh, 42 00:02:01,959 --> 00:02:04,079 comic things in the chat. I don't know where Travis 43 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,599 went to. You know what, he's He's in the arena somewhere. 44 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:10,439 He's in one of those coliseums. I'm not sure. But 45 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,120 you answered him. Oh, you answered him perfect. I didn't 46 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:14,120 even can't. 47 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,199 Speaker 2: I don't know if maybe I just spilled the beans. 48 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:19,520 We'll see. 49 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: No, I think you're safe. 50 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: He'll be back, he'll be back. He's on the Yeah, 51 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,439 Kirkland's just sick tonight. He got poisoned. So hopefully he 52 00:02:27,879 --> 00:02:29,800 didn't actually get poisoned. I'm making a glady of reference. 53 00:02:30,199 --> 00:02:31,560 He should be back in a few days. 54 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,039 Speaker 1: He should be hopefully. Yeah, he's probably sounding like I 55 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:36,759 sounded a few days ago, just not you transferred. 56 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, you gave him the sickness. 57 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:43,159 Speaker 1: Gave him the sickness. Yeah. Oh, but I mean speaking 58 00:02:43,199 --> 00:02:47,199 of uh yeah, sicknesses and poisonings and all that. What 59 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:51,400 Dylan was your non spoilers thoughts going into this movie. 60 00:02:52,599 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: Uh, well, going into this movie, I had no nonspoilersots. 61 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:01,919 But when I was out of the movie, Taylor oh Man, 62 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:06,439 much like Banana, I am split on this one. I 63 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,360 have so many thoughts and I feel like I'm gonna 64 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,599 be all over the place, so bear with me here. 65 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,599 And I think this is also a tricky one for 66 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,360 me to talk about non spoilers, why so I'll give 67 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,000 some more maybe hopefully coherent thoughts when we get to 68 00:03:18,039 --> 00:03:21,039 that section of the podcast. But this is a really 69 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:25,120 interesting time, you know, especially compared to Beetlejuice two, which 70 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,120 we watched earlier this year, which to me was like 71 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,360 exactly what I want from a legacy sequel, even though 72 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,439 I didn't watch that movie until earlier. This see as well, 73 00:03:32,479 --> 00:03:34,919 which is the same thing here for Gladiator, and so 74 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,759 I feel like going into this I kind of was 75 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,759 expecting to really build off the events of the first 76 00:03:39,759 --> 00:03:42,439 one in a big way and it was really throwing 77 00:03:42,439 --> 00:03:43,599 me off that I feel like the first out of 78 00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:46,080 this half of this movie is not doing that whatsoever. 79 00:03:46,479 --> 00:03:48,319 And for most of this movie, even down to the end, 80 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,400 I feel like this this feels almost like a soft 81 00:03:51,439 --> 00:03:54,639 reboot or a remake to some extent. And obviously we 82 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,919 are building off the characters and the time has passed, 83 00:03:56,919 --> 00:03:59,319 we're like sixteen years later or whatever it is, but 84 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,479 just in terms of the that the story beats the 85 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,599 pacing even down to like the pacing of the battles. 86 00:04:04,639 --> 00:04:07,960 It feels so onto one to that original movie. So 87 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,879 even though it's not a retelling of the story in 88 00:04:10,919 --> 00:04:14,800 the exact same way, just the characters that are new 89 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,639 and introduced here feel like they're just trying to fit 90 00:04:16,639 --> 00:04:19,519 into that exact same mold as that first film. Or 91 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:21,879 maybe they'll take one character and kind of split their 92 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,560 traits into two characters, so we can break down all 93 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,600 the details of that. But it was kind of throwing 94 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,800 me off, and it was disappointing, Like I kind of 95 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,240 wanted more of an evolution or something new and fresh 96 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,160 and different, and I didn't really feel like I was 97 00:04:34,199 --> 00:04:36,759 getting that for most of this. And then I like, 98 00:04:36,759 --> 00:04:38,199 when we get towards the end of the movie, it's 99 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,560 like nostalgia bait headquarters, like just hucking, like shooting arrows 100 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,560 at my face of nostalgia and I'm just taking too 101 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,800 many at the same time. So it was a very 102 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:51,560 it was a very just huge rush between the two 103 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:55,000 and huge change, and I think overall like the movie 104 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,800 feels like that too in terms of just my general 105 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,959 thoughts of it. Once I kind of got over what 106 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,120 the movie was, now it is kind of meeting it 107 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,240 where it was. I feel like it's it's quite mixed 108 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,199 as well. It's split in that same way where there 109 00:05:06,199 --> 00:05:08,639 are some characters that are really, really, really well written. 110 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,160 I think my favorite character across these two movies is 111 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:13,120 in here. I'm really excited to talk about that character, 112 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,199 and then other ones feel much more flat than I 113 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,399 was expecting or hoping, especially using once again that comparison 114 00:05:19,399 --> 00:05:22,199 of their counterpart from the first one. I think that 115 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,639 the battles are better shot this time around. I think 116 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,959 some of the stakes or the flow of them isn't 117 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,439 as good as the first one, but overall, I think 118 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,600 the battles are are pretty good. The visuals look great. 119 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:34,120 There's no like janky Well there's a couple of yanky 120 00:05:34,199 --> 00:05:38,560 CGI moments, but nothing to nothing too egregious. Uh and 121 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,480 and yeah, I think that's maybe all i want to 122 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:43,439 say in the non spoilers way. I'm I'm very mixed 123 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,040 on this one. I don't even know where I'm gonna 124 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,360 be for a number of reviewer rating or a feeling 125 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:49,040 at the end until we really break it down some 126 00:05:49,079 --> 00:05:52,199 more through the process of this review. And I'm really 127 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,120 really excited to see just in the discord and elsewhere 128 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,120 a letter box I guess just see other people in 129 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,399 our community to see their thoughts on this, because I 130 00:05:59,399 --> 00:06:01,480 do feel like this is gonna be a mixed reaction 131 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,720 to this movie. Overall. I think there's gonna be people 132 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,360 who absolutely love it because as a popcorn flick turn 133 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:09,360 your brain off, I think it succeeds really well. Then 134 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,040 I think when you maybe pick it apart, it crumbles 135 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,199 a little bit. We'll see if I'm alone in that thought. 136 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,920 So I'm excited to see those other people's thoughts. But Taylor, 137 00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:18,199 what are your thoughts? I gotta hear. 138 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel a little split as well with this 139 00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:28,000 because on one side of the room you have a 140 00:06:28,079 --> 00:06:31,720 ton of action and a ton of really awesome choographed 141 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,240 battles and sequences that I was definitely engaging with and 142 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,959 I was really enjoying. And then on the other side 143 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,839 you have this the story and the characters where I 144 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:45,319 feel like the characters, even our main character, where I 145 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,160 feel like he is at the start he's one person 146 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,879 and at the end he's kind of become this person, 147 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,879 which I wasn't expecting him, Like he just they set 148 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,120 him up to become something different, and at the end 149 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:58,920 it's just like, oh, no, he's just this is what 150 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,639 this is what they're doing with the care that's it, 151 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,560 and it's like, well, that just kind of defeats what 152 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,959 he was standing for on what his idea ideologies were 153 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,560 at the beginning of the film. It just kind of 154 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,079 conflicted with his development a little bit. So that pulls 155 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:14,959 me out of it. But I like how you said 156 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,879 it kind of feels like a soft reboot and at 157 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:21,079 the same time because they're trying to redo a few 158 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,759 things I guess and kind of backtrack a little bit 159 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:25,680 on how they did things with the story of the 160 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:30,319 first one. And the downside is I feel like this 161 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,920 movie was a bit predictable because it's just the way 162 00:07:34,959 --> 00:07:37,360 it starts, and then as things progress, it's like, well, 163 00:07:37,959 --> 00:07:41,319 this is almost like seen like seen by scene of 164 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,920 what the first one was doing. And not that that's 165 00:07:43,959 --> 00:07:46,040 necessarily a bad thing, because like you said, there's gonna 166 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,560 be people that are just eating this stuff. They're gonna 167 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,199 be enjoying it, and I can see I can take 168 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,920 it in for what it is, and I'm not saying 169 00:07:51,959 --> 00:07:54,519 it's like, oh, this is a terrible movie. It's just 170 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,000 something that I think I need to sit on a 171 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,399 little bit more and talk about because yeah, it's just 172 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,600 it has very similar story beats to that first one, 173 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,000 and maybe that's just them trying to play it safe 174 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,759 and try to stick with what they know and what 175 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:07,720 they're doing. I was hoping that'd be a little bit 176 00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:09,839 more bolder and a little more bigger, because I really 177 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:11,920 did like what we saw in the trailers with again 178 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,279 the action scenes and everything in the coliseum, which that 179 00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:16,519 stuff is just great. It's fantastic, and they up the 180 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,759 ante from what they did in the first one in 181 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,399 this one. There's some things I want to bring up 182 00:08:20,399 --> 00:08:22,680 again the spoilers, like I don't know how like if 183 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,240 this is I'm not a historian, so I don't know 184 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,360 how historically accurate some of these things are. But what 185 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:30,399 they just did of trying to wrap my head around, 186 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:33,559 like is that even like is that possible? Do they 187 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,559 really do that back then? That's just crazy. But we'll 188 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,480 see when we get into spoilers. Yeah, So I think 189 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,159 I'll just shout out Pedro always fantastic. Oh my goodness, 190 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,279 he was great in this and unexpected to. I didn't 191 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,080 actually know or anticipate what was going to be going 192 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,240 down with his character, and so I really did enjoy 193 00:08:54,759 --> 00:08:58,320 him his development and just yeah, his character in general. 194 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,720 Really really liked that. It was actually a big surprise 195 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,240 in how he was introduced and where he kind of 196 00:09:04,279 --> 00:09:07,159 like headed off in his development. 197 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,799 Speaker 2: I got a non spoilers question for you about his character. 198 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:14,159 What's his accent in this movie? Because I feel like 199 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,639 half the time he's like American. Half the time he's 200 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,879 doing like pronouncing things in like a British way, or 201 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:21,320 he's Mandalorian. 202 00:09:21,399 --> 00:09:22,759 Speaker 1: That's what I'm telling My sof was. 203 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: All over the place. I love patro but I was like, 204 00:09:24,879 --> 00:09:26,519 I don't know, I don't know what his choice was 205 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:27,480 here for an accent. 206 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:31,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's hard, too hard to pinpoint because I 207 00:09:31,799 --> 00:09:34,279 feel like there was a few people they had very 208 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,879 very different accents. I guess, yeah. 209 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: I feel like there's not really a consistency to it, 210 00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:41,320 Like you know, in the casting too, just getting people 211 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:44,159 from all over the world, you know you're gonna kind 212 00:09:44,159 --> 00:09:46,159 of have some mixing there unless everyone's like a total 213 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:47,080 expert at this stuff. 214 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, is there anything else you have? Non spoilers so 215 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:54,679 you want to showcase. 216 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,279 Speaker 2: You know, maybe just one quick mention here is I 217 00:09:57,279 --> 00:10:02,600 feel like the music I didn't notice in this movie. Yeah, 218 00:10:02,639 --> 00:10:04,399 which is funny because as we talked about in that retro, 219 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,519 like going back to that and being like, wow, Pirates 220 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,480 just totally ripped off the same well, it was the 221 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,120 same composer, but just totally ripped off the exact same theme. 222 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,320 It was funny going into this, and I feel like 223 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,600 this movie was trying to distance itself from that, which, 224 00:10:15,639 --> 00:10:17,279 as we talked about in the retro, is like it'd 225 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:18,919 be hard if they just use the same theme, but 226 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,879 now people just know it as the Pirates theme. But instead, 227 00:10:21,919 --> 00:10:25,559 I don't feel like I noticed any track or any 228 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,519 theme or any music across this whole thing. I don't 229 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,240 know how you felt about that, but it just it 230 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,200 just felt a little more generic this time around, even 231 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,159 if it did feel maybe a bit generic because it 232 00:10:36,159 --> 00:10:39,120 felt like it was copying something that came out later, But. 233 00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:42,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree. I can't see this really being 234 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:47,960 in the running for any score awards or anything like 235 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,960 that because there isn't really anything. There was just the 236 00:10:50,039 --> 00:10:54,840 odd beat that was pulled from the original movie, like 237 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,440 like on a Marcus Aurelius kind of theme or something 238 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,519 like that that I felt like, but they're very short bits. 239 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,759 It was like it'd be like a thirty second audio clips, 240 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:03,200 like oh yeah, I think that beat was from like 241 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,720 the first movie, but nothing that was really making this 242 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,679 kind of stand up on its own and giving it 243 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,480 its own originality. And yeah, it's just something unfortunately, very 244 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:18,600 forgettable because I can't recall any like fantastic musical sequences 245 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:20,320 in this movie at all, just a lot of like 246 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:22,200 clashing and clanging and screaming. 247 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I mean I think it was a 248 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,440 rock and a hard place in terms of reusing that 249 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,000 theme from the first one, So they kind of just 250 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,240 had to go a different direction. And I don't know, 251 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,279 maybe on a rewatch, if I'm listening on Spotify, I 252 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,960 will stand out more. But something I didn't when I 253 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,240 got out, I was like, oh, yeah, I don't feel 254 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,200 like I noticed any music at all. I know it 255 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,639 was there, but I can't say I noticed it. Yeah, 256 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,320 I think it's all I have for non spoiler thoughts here. 257 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: That's all I got, I guess in closing. For me, 258 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,879 when I went into the theater, it was pretty light. 259 00:11:50,039 --> 00:11:52,039 There wasn't a lot of people. Now I knew that 260 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,000 there were the role I wanted. I knew that there 261 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,879 were two seats taken dead center, and I, you know, 262 00:11:56,919 --> 00:11:58,279 I was going to go there, but I couldn't get 263 00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:01,159 it because other people had them. So I did two 264 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,720 seats over uh from that spot the center of my row. 265 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,799 And so when I sat there, I thought, Okay, well 266 00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:09,639 those people never showed up, but I'm just gonna sit 267 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:13,559 in my seat. And then the movie starts for like 268 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,559 five minutes, and then a whole group of people come 269 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,519 in and they sit down and it's like they got 270 00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:19,720 the whole row, but I'm pulling a Travis here. They 271 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,240 sit like right next to me, which you know, in retrospect, 272 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,240 it's kind of okay because I was going to see 273 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,840 this by myself. But I felt like, you know what, 274 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:29,000 I got some like make not make believe friends, but 275 00:12:29,039 --> 00:12:31,360 I got some like temporary friends here to enjoy this 276 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:31,759 movie with. 277 00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:36,279 Speaker 2: It's like the audience in the coliseum, that's right. 278 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,799 Speaker 1: That's right. There were two little little kids, little boys 279 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,159 in the very front row with their dad and they 280 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,320 had the one kid had to have been under ten 281 00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:49,799 years old, and I thought, man, that's a that's a 282 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,080 bold choice to bring. 283 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: Yours getting chopped. Yeah, crazy stuff. 284 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,759 Speaker 1: There's some definite crazy stuff, some close up shots of things, 285 00:12:58,799 --> 00:13:02,360 but uh yeah, I'm not planning to do that with 286 00:13:02,399 --> 00:13:04,720 my kid anytime soon. But you know, to each his 287 00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:06,879 zone if you want to, you know, show them this 288 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,720 taesostrone of a feature, then be my guest. 289 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not gonna stop them. 290 00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: They really want that's right. Yeah, Okay, we are going 291 00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:18,559 to get into some spoilers after this quick ad break, 292 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:22,120 so we'll be right back. And we are back. So 293 00:13:23,159 --> 00:13:24,879 where do we want to start? 294 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 2: Well, I I feel like I've been doing this. I've 295 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,000 been pulling kirklingly. I just want to start at the beginning. 296 00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:32,639 But I did want to ask about that because they 297 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,799 start this movie opens up with, well, I forget what 298 00:13:36,039 --> 00:13:39,120 happens first, whether it's kind of like the ai n 299 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:41,360 h mon dollars thing that's going on of like the 300 00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:43,759 first movie, or if it's the crawl. I think it's yeah, 301 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:45,759 I think it goes in that order, not really crawl, 302 00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:47,799 but it's just like you know three, you know, a 303 00:13:47,799 --> 00:13:50,279 couple a little paragraph worth of information of like here's 304 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,240 what's happened between the events of the first movie and this, 305 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,600 and that honestly immediately put like a very bad taste 306 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,799 in my mouth. I was like, Okay, sixteen years have 307 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,600 passed and you know what, the events of the first movie, 308 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,000 it don't really matter because some bad guys came in 309 00:14:03,039 --> 00:14:05,600 and now they're running Rome and here you go, welcome 310 00:14:05,639 --> 00:14:07,519 to the movie. So I didn't like that at all 311 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:09,320 because I feel like it really takes away from like 312 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,759 Maximus's journey in the first movie. You know, I get 313 00:14:12,799 --> 00:14:15,320 that this is Rome. There's people constantly going for the throne, 314 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,679 going for the assassinations. But I feel like, as an audience, 315 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,200 we need to see some of that or feel like 316 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,879 what our hero did in the first movie is is leading, 317 00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:26,639 is like gonna have some positive consequences and it and 318 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,679 it doesn't. And then I feel like by the end 319 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:30,080 of the movie, we're kind of bringing some of the 320 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,879 Maximus stuff back and it's like, Okay, I guess it's 321 00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:33,480 maybe a full circle moment. 322 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:34,399 Speaker 1: But I was. 323 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: I was immediately thrown off, and it took me like 324 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,919 a half an hour before I was like, Okay, I've cooled. 325 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,559 I'm no longer enraged that they did this, and then 326 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,120 I could like see the movie where I was at. So, 327 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:45,240 how did you feel about just like those opening lines 328 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:47,440 of dialogue or just written lines. 329 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: Even so, I think the intro getting the kind of 330 00:14:51,159 --> 00:14:54,919 like painted flashbacks the first movie, I thought that was 331 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,320 very cool. That was gonna be hyped up. But yeah, 332 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,320 once we got the brief little opening crawl there where 333 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,240 it was just talking about, yeah, six sixteen years has passed, 334 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,200 I believe, and twin emperors have taken over, and Maximus's 335 00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:12,080 dream has kind of just been forgotten. It's like sixteen 336 00:15:12,159 --> 00:15:16,240 years and his dream has been forgotten. Fuck, that's not good. 337 00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:21,000 Sixteen years. I guess he's sixty years, but sixteen Jesus. 338 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:23,840 So that was definitely a little bit of a a 339 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,759 little bit of a set back, and it in retrospect 340 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:31,879 to what really bothers me, is they This is kind 341 00:15:31,919 --> 00:15:35,679 of jumping ahead. It shows when Lucius is being sent 342 00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:38,919 away right after Maximus dies in the arena, and then 343 00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:42,759 Lucilla takes I think her Lucilla, right, Yeah, it takes 344 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:44,759 Lucius is like, Okay, we need to get you out 345 00:15:44,759 --> 00:15:46,480 of here because people are gonna be coming to assassinate. 346 00:15:46,519 --> 00:15:48,799 You see a little bit of insight there. But it's 347 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:51,639 funny because the scene right before that is Maximus saying 348 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,200 Lucius is safe and then Lucia is like, people are 349 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:55,879 gonna be coming to kill you. We couldn't get you 350 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:57,559 out of a year. It's like, well, that's kind of 351 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,759 a little bit like counterpartive, and the way they're telling 352 00:16:01,799 --> 00:16:04,759 this story, it's a little weird. So Maximus is really 353 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:09,559 just like he died thinking everything was peachy and no, no, 354 00:16:09,679 --> 00:16:10,840 it's just it was worse. 355 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, he died. He died for nothing, seemingly. Uh, And 356 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:16,600 it's kind of a it's kind of weird because as 357 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:18,600 we as we just mentioned, like, yeah, I kind of 358 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:20,360 near the end of the movie, like the Dream of 359 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:23,039 Maximus is kind of back where Lucius is like, I'm 360 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,000 I am the son of Maximus, and that seems to 361 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,919 inspire people. But I kind of feel like what inspired 362 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,879 them more was the death of Acacious, of Pedro Pascal's 363 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,679 character and then him being like, is this what you want? 364 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,360 Your heroes are shot down? 365 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:36,679 Speaker 1: Whatever? 366 00:16:36,759 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: Whatever he says that like monologue there that seems to 367 00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:40,679 fire up the people because right after that, I mean, one, 368 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,600 people are fighting in the stands, throwing throwing fists with 369 00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:45,960 the guards and the and their bow and arrows there, uh, 370 00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:47,919 but then also in the streets after that there's there's 371 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:50,679 the whole uh, there's riots going on, and then it 372 00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:53,679 seems like it just kind of cools unknowing, I don't 373 00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:55,120 really know why it cool that. I don't know if 374 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,759 we were just cutting to use scenes where people were 375 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:58,000 in quiet places. 376 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: Uh. 377 00:16:58,639 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 2: And then and then we kind of get into the 378 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,279 finale of the movie, so we don't really get resolution 379 00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:04,680 on like the people of Rome, because we don't really 380 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,000 know much about Rome as a people in this you know, 381 00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:10,759 we just we just get like the one percent pretty 382 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:12,759 much in this movie, just get like the higher ups. 383 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,240 So yeah, it was kind of a weird choice. And 384 00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:17,400 as you mentioned too, and once again, as I talked 385 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,440 about I'm gonna go be going everywhere on this review, 386 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:21,960 is that's how I feel with this movie. That that 387 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,119 Lucilla think really bothered me as well, because I feel 388 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:31,000 like she she's putting her son presumably somewhere safe to 389 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,839 keep him safe, but like also has no idea where 390 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,920 she's sending him, and then has no way to contact 391 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,960 him or retrieve him as she's like still in the 392 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,119 know with everyone going and she knows that like Rome 393 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,799 is just actively going around killing societies, presumably killing a 394 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,319 society of a place that she knowingly sent her son, Like, 395 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,079 there's a lot of questions that I have in terms 396 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:53,160 of why she would do that, and it's like, well, 397 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,640 he could have just died there at any second, in 398 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,640 any one of these places. So it feels like, well, 399 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,720 wouldn't you have been safer in Rome near you? Or 400 00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:02,400 you actually like no people instead of just sending them 401 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,680 off to me in the middle of nowhere. So I 402 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,599 didn't honestly, the use of Lucill in this movie. I 403 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,839 think it was very weak and not a great evolution 404 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,559 of what her character was in the first one, considering 405 00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:13,640 that she's one of the very few people that actually 406 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,000 comes back, like Lucius comes back, but it's a different actor, 407 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:17,960 but we get her and Gracus I think, or like 408 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,599 the two actors that come back that I can think 409 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,680 of off the top of my head. So yeah, I 410 00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:25,000 was not a big fan of her decision making there, 411 00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:26,960 and it's not a really fleshed out decision, Like that's 412 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,799 the thing. I wonder if there's maybe a like deleted 413 00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:32,359 scene or two that explore her decision to do that more. 414 00:18:32,599 --> 00:18:35,039 But as you mentioned, like the first movie, that's it 415 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:36,920 kind of feels like a legacy sequel where they expect 416 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,799 the audience to have not watched the movie in twenty years, 417 00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:40,839 and so they're not paying close attention to like the 418 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,079 choices or words or things that were done or said 419 00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:45,119 in that first movie. More just having that foggy twenty 420 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,279 year old memory of it right and go to the movie, 421 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,920 which is a weird problem. It's a hard problem to solve, 422 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,079 I think as a filmmaker when you're trying to appease 423 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,119 both audiences like hardware fans, people are rewatching it, or 424 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,039 just nostalgic people. So yeah, it's hard to make those decisions. 425 00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:00,960 But I didn't love what they did with her character overall. 426 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I would agree with that for sure. It's yeah, 427 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:12,160 she's just uh, everything that they were doing with that 428 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,559 kind of narrative. It really does undo just a lot 429 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:19,519 of the established narrative in the first one, And I 430 00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:21,000 just don't buy it because I feel like in the 431 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,400 end of that first one, like if they had they 432 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,359 had things secure, Commonists was out and they basically had 433 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,079 Maximus's army. I'm pretty sure was like storming in there eventually, 434 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,279 so the Senate was in control. They had Maximus's army, 435 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,680 they had. The Preatorians were also on their side too, 436 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:42,440 so everyone was on her side, but no, she still 437 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,519 felt threatened that basically she had to get Lucius out 438 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:48,400 of there. And again, it's just very weird because Lucius 439 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,119 has this first encounter with her and is basically like, 440 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,680 I don't remember, I don't know who you are, I 441 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,559 don't remember anything, and you know I'm paraphrasing, but he's like, 442 00:19:56,599 --> 00:20:00,640 fuck Rome, and all of a sudden he cares about 443 00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:02,480 Roman turning Rome into what it can be, and he 444 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:04,559 wants to be the emperor and all this stuff, and 445 00:20:04,559 --> 00:20:09,240 it's like, well, that's just very weird writing at this point. 446 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,279 Why is he kind of betraying his his his ideals 447 00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:16,839 as I mentioned before the non spoilers too, and again 448 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,200 I understand that he had his wife, he loved his wife. 449 00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:22,720 And then you have Pedro's character come in and Patrio's 450 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:26,519 character reluctantly is taking over the city execute gets the 451 00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:29,559 wife executor killed, and the heat of combat, I feel 452 00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:35,359 like they're kind of, oh, like kiss and make up 453 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,119 kind of session, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. 454 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,319 It was not. It was way too rushed, and then 455 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,680 it just cuts to Pedro just being bor mirrored like crazy. 456 00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: So my god, Bormere times seven he absolutely devoured. Yeah, 457 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:51,240 I'm totally with you. I think some of that stuff 458 00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:54,480 was really messy, and as you mentioned, like I feel like, uh, 459 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,880 we'll make a lot of these comparisons of like, oh, 460 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,799 here's this character from Gladator one and here's what they 461 00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:00,319 do with Gladator two. And I feel like the character 462 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,279 of Maximus, they kind of split into Acacius and Lucius 463 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,079 and kind of had all the elements of what Maximus is, 464 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,160 you know, in terms of like, oh, the wife dying, 465 00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:10,920 turning into this vengeful story to go back against Rome, 466 00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:13,640 being put you know, back through the gladiator thing, and 467 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,960 having to go through on that whole journey. A lot 468 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,920 of that stuff is like very similar in One to one, 469 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,960 and even though it's kind of split into those two characters. 470 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:21,839 But I feel like one of the things with Maximus 471 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,079 and the Physician, some of the tough decisions he has 472 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,799 early on in that movie in the first one, is 473 00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:27,680 that the king really trusts him and wants him to 474 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,039 be the next successor because not just because he's a 475 00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:33,519 good fighter, but because he's been around he has a 476 00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:35,440 lot of knowledge on like the political side, and he 477 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,920 would be a good leader and he's a good person. 478 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,839 The king feels he's a good person. But Lucius like, like, 479 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,680 as this movie's going along and getting to the end, 480 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,119 I feel like it gets pretty messy, and I'm like, 481 00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:48,559 who are we supposed to be rooting for as a viewer, 482 00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:50,519 because like, I kind of hate everyone in Rome. They 483 00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:52,920 all suck everyone in these other societies. They're all like 484 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,680 slave owners and shitty as well. And then like, okay, 485 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,480 so I'm supposed to believe that Lucius is gonna come 486 00:21:57,519 --> 00:22:00,640 in and he's gonna change Rome, but he doesn't like anything. 487 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,559 I guess he was a kid there and he like 488 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,599 when he when he was a kid, he was there 489 00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:07,279 with communists and Lucilla and he was maybe learning some stuff, 490 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:09,160 but he was like eight or something at the time, 491 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,200 right or would they say eight or ten or twelve 492 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,839 when he twelve twelve? Yeah, yeah, twelve when he got 493 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,240 kicked away. So it's not like he was, you know, 494 00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:19,119 gaining a ton of political knowledge at that time. I 495 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,200 feel like he was more just being babied and coddled 496 00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:23,920 so much so that Lucy will sent him away. But 497 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,359 when he potentially was in danger. But it's like, I 498 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:29,519 don't I don't believe, especially after watching the first movie 499 00:22:29,599 --> 00:22:31,799 and Maximus was this great leader that people loved, and 500 00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:34,000 even though he died, it was still like, Okay, everyone 501 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,480 was wanting to make a better room for him, and 502 00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:39,079 that didn't happen clearly as we saw with that crawl, 503 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,440 just kind of overwriting that information. But I'm I supposed 504 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,079 to believe that Lucius is going to come in and 505 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,160 with no like political knowledge, he doesn't know how any 506 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,839 of that stuff works. He's just a raw fighter and 507 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,079 he has no allies at this point, Like people are 508 00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:53,720 gonna work for him, but he doesn't really have any 509 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,400 friends anymore. Like he's gonna lead a better room, yeah, right, 510 00:22:57,559 --> 00:22:59,359 Like he's gonna be the He's gonna be usurped in 511 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:00,720 like a five second and then it's gonna be the 512 00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:02,960 same fate. So I just feel like by the end 513 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,880 of the movie, I was like, I don't really know 514 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:05,920 what to root for it. I don't think it really 515 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,599 matters root for because the first movie, the people were 516 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,440 reading for one and I mean someone you know, some 517 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,519 of them died in the process. They won, and none 518 00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:15,559 of it really seemed to matter anyway. So I feel 519 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:18,880 like Gladiator three, it's gonna be like, within two months, 520 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,839 Rome was overthrown by a new evil government. It's gonna 521 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,920 last much, much less than sixteen years. 522 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my goodness, I think you nailed that comparison 523 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,920 between Lucius and I keep forgetting Pedro's name. Araxus. 524 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 2: Is that a kakius? I don't know if it's cacacious 525 00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:40,759 or acacious, Like it's a C A. 526 00:23:41,079 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: C I U s. Yeah, sounds like an acacious called Pedro. 527 00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:50,680 That works. Pedro. Yeah, Pedro So Pedro and Lucius characters. 528 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,680 They are definitely like a combination of what Maximus was 529 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,440 in that first one. It's this is where I thought, okay, 530 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,119 things are really paralleling that first film, because you get 531 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:06,759 again the opening sequence being this big battle, just like 532 00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,960 we had the first one, and you got your commander, 533 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,079 your general I guess, uh, Pedro. And this is where 534 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,160 it expedites because all of a sudden, Pedro goes back home. 535 00:24:16,519 --> 00:24:19,599 He's in Rome and he, you know, has a bit 536 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,480 of engaging with the Emperor's like I want to retire, 537 00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:25,119 and they're like no, no, no, we got Persia, Africa, India, 538 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,359 all to conquer these places. He's like okay, and then 539 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,240 he goes home and he's like, I can't take it anymore. 540 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:31,960 My army is going to be here in ten days 541 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,279 and we're taken over. Like holy shit, this is the 542 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,799 ending that of glad. You're one with a Maximus hat 543 00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:40,960 as a plan, and I'm thinking, okay, well, we already 544 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,920 know what's going to happen here. The plan is going 545 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,119 to go sideways. There's no way it's going to work out. 546 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:51,200 Even in his death. I guess the plan still happens 547 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,119 because the army is still showing up. But you're I mean, 548 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,000 I feel like you're right, because you were saying that 549 00:24:57,039 --> 00:24:59,960 he had definitely had more implications on things that we're 550 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,000 going on than Lucius did. Lucius just happened to be 551 00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:07,039 there to kill Denzel and was like, just he just 552 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,039 gave a speech, and I don't know, there are like 553 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,519 there's eleven thousand people on this battlefield, and only that 554 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:17,839 the like the front line of fifty are going to 555 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,759 hear what he's saying and the other ones aren't gonna 556 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:21,920 know and just be kind of confused. 557 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 2: Right, So I know I wonder that too, when they're 558 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,079 like making speeches in the Colosseum, and like it seems 559 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,240 like it's designed to have really good acoustics, so even 560 00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:33,480 if they're not speaking into some like trombone thing that's 561 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,000 gonna or a microphone that's gonna shoot it out, Like 562 00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,119 I guess people can still hear when Pedro's like very 563 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,400 quietly giving a speech. I don't know I'm supposed to 564 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,039 believe that, but yeah, to your point, like in the 565 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:44,519 middle of a battlefield when it looks really windy too, 566 00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:46,480 Like I don't think any of them can hear, So 567 00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:48,480 it's like gonna be the people in the front who 568 00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:49,759 hear it, and then they kind of whisper it to 569 00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:51,119 the people in the back, and it's like a game 570 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,319 of telephone with the people in the back just hear 571 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,880 like a very distorted version of what it actually is. 572 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,480 But yeah, it's odd that, like, Okay, the power of 573 00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:02,039 Rome at this point is they say there's six thousand 574 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,200 soldiers in Rome ready to go. It's the Roman army, 575 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,519 but then like Acacius's army is five thousand, so it's 576 00:26:08,519 --> 00:26:11,200 like a very close amount, and they're just like out 577 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:14,240 chilling at like some camp, you know, like a dayly 578 00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:16,079 I don't know what they do. I guess they just 579 00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:18,759 sit around until Acasius comes back and orders them to 580 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:21,920 go kill like some new society. But if not, they're 581 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,279 just kind of sitting around. It's it's kind of odd. 582 00:26:24,319 --> 00:26:26,559 Maybe that's the way it was historically. I don't know, 583 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,160 but it is a bit odd pacing wise, when you're 584 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,880 kind of getting set up for this huge, big battle. 585 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,480 I didn't expect there would be a big battle at 586 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:34,680 the end. I thought it would kind of end amicably, 587 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,640 and it did. But I guess that's a slight difference 588 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,400 because in glad Eater one, we do get that army 589 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,759 kind of arriving to Rome, right, and then then the 590 00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:45,640 coup kind of gets overthrown. So it works a little 591 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,319 bit differently than it does in the first movie, at 592 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,119 least a little bit. 593 00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I have to say, like that sequence was 594 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,240 freaking awesome just to see visually, just to see the 595 00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:58,400 Preatorian army, like six thousand troops just coming out of 596 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,759 Rome and over the hill side you see like five 597 00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:03,960 thousands like Roman legionaires coming. It's like, holy shit, Like 598 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,680 I know they're not gonna fight, and I don't need 599 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,720 them to fight, but just to see this setup. I 600 00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:13,079 got big like rts, like total lashbacks, like oh yeah, 601 00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:15,720 it's like total war like strong crusaders just setting up 602 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,319 like the armies and just seeing them, and I was like, oh, 603 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,599 this is just like so cool just to see this 604 00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:23,839 right now, which again like another positive, like just a 605 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,759 testament to the the intro battle like Gladiator Won. That 606 00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:29,680 is such an iconic opening sequence with that fight scene, 607 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,319 but the one that we got here with the naval 608 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,680 combat was just that was something else. And I'm just 609 00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:39,720 I'm watching this this engagement unfold and I'm just thinking 610 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,039 in my head, like again I'm not a historian, but 611 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,319 to see the organization and to see I don't know 612 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,400 how accurate, but I'm I'm I could probably confidently say 613 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,519 that this is probably pretty accurate to the way that 614 00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:54,400 they detailed the ships and the siege equipment, to just 615 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,799 how the Romans were just coming in and just their 616 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,640 their power and their practicalness, and oh my god, it 617 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,759 was just to It's just something that I feel like 618 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,880 it's a shame that we kind of forget about this, 619 00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:09,400 like we look at this and this is a part 620 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,039 of our history, like how it's horrible and it's brutal. 621 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:15,079 It's war and chaos and bloody and everything bad. But 622 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:19,079 the the it's gonna sound weird, the brilliance of it, 623 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,920 and just how organized they were and just how they 624 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,720 had this equipment, like they got boats with siege towers 625 00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:27,319 on them with the rams dropping down, and like just 626 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:27,799 how they. 627 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: Were, Like how big like a pirate ship type boat 628 00:28:30,519 --> 00:28:33,319 can be. Yeah, Like so you play skull and Bones 629 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:33,599 and then. 630 00:28:33,559 --> 00:28:38,319 Speaker 1: You yeah, it's just it's so it's so cool to 631 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,640 just like behold and just a witness. I think that's 632 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,000 where a movie like this is just this is great 633 00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:44,759 on the big screen because you can really just like 634 00:28:44,839 --> 00:28:48,000 take it in for legs, like the sheer like chaos 635 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,480 and the awesomeness that is portrayed. That was that some 636 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:53,400 of the SIEGEI that was kind of like a con 637 00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:55,039 for you at the start there. 638 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,039 Speaker 2: No, honestly, that first battle, the siege of the city, No, no, 639 00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:01,799 it's it's perfect. I think it was so much fun. 640 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,240 It was a Lord of the Rings scale battle for me. 641 00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:07,240 It even had like I always talk about with the 642 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:09,039 Lord of the Rings. But I just love the phases 643 00:29:09,079 --> 00:29:10,599 of it. And so you have the boats coming in 644 00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:14,599 and then like the trebuchets, the catapults all firing off, 645 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,920 and then yeah, like the siege, like they assemble the tower, 646 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,240 kind of live there, break the bridge down. The bridge 647 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,240 isn't working. Pedro runs around. He's the only one apparently 648 00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:25,720 strong enough to slash a rope, so he does that, 649 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,160 and then they fly into the city and then there's 650 00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:31,400 archers up on the wall and they all start firing it. Oh, 651 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,039 get them up on the wall, and then we turned 652 00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:35,519 the battle out that way, like it was so much fun. 653 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,839 I love that sequence. I think my CGI issues are 654 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,240 just like mostly the monkeys and the monkeys and the 655 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,960 in that one arena looked a little CGI monkey. 656 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what. 657 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 2: I don't even know what they again, they called the monkeys, 658 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,680 but I've never seen a monkey like that before. That's 659 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,920 like an ancient Roman monkey, for sure. It's like a 660 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,640 closer to a hyena than a monkey. 661 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,319 Speaker 1: But it was. 662 00:29:56,559 --> 00:29:59,759 Speaker 2: It was terrifying, but it was also like very very CGI. 663 00:29:59,839 --> 00:30:01,440 That that was kind of my main beef with some 664 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,000 of these animals. But yeah, I think that battle looked fantastic. 665 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,720 The lighting of it as well. I think it was great. 666 00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:10,039 Just the look of the city, the look of the boats, 667 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:13,880 and even just the really sad end of it where 668 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,839 you have all the prisoners captives just kind of all 669 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,240 sitting out on the side, and then they just have 670 00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:22,799 like a sea of bodies like they it looks like 671 00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,400 a pond or like a small lake or something like that, 672 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,799 and then they just throw the torches in and just 673 00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:30,720 burn all the bodies at once. As you said, really 674 00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:34,640 really terrifying and a scary thought. That's like, man, that 675 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,359 those kind of things happened on this earth, you know, 676 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,279 one hundred thousands of years ago. But yeah, it's it 677 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,240 was a super duper well done Battlely, I think I 678 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:45,920 think that one was awesome and it's funny. How once 679 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,319 again that as you mentioned, like the Germania battle is 680 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,960 kind of the biggest scale battle in the first movie, 681 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,400 and so that they followed that. I feel like in general, 682 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,240 the battles follow very much the same rubric or template 683 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,759 as that first movie of starting with the big Germania battle, 684 00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:02,720 you get the smaller arena outside Rome, you get that 685 00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,640 battle there, a smaller scale one, and then you get 686 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,640 the Roman battle that's like a replication of a battle 687 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,240 that happened elsewhere, and then you have the battle between 688 00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:13,440 just two guys and then you have some chaos at 689 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,759 the end. So it very much follows that that same 690 00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:20,720 battle and like intensity structure as that as the first 691 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:21,200 movie did. 692 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, I'm gonna take a shot in the 693 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:28,480 dark here and say that they were baboons. Okay, interesting, 694 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,799 maybe like very malnourished. 695 00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: They definitely looked like they definitely starved them so that 696 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,000 they would just go buck wild on these gladiators when 697 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,960 they when they got the chance. Yeah, what'd you think 698 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:40,920 of that battle. 699 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: With the bass? That's just yeah, it's kind of it's 700 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,640 terrifying because I feel like you're in the situation, and 701 00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:53,400 I think he was very lucky. Lucius is very lucky 702 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,920 to be dealing with only one baboon because I feel like, okay, 703 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,920 you could have one come from the side, like a 704 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,559 third one could gang up on you like who knows. 705 00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:03,640 But no, he went full animal kingdom there craving the 706 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,039 hunter and managed to like fight this one baboon off 707 00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:10,039 pretty well. I mean he's eating it as he's fighting 708 00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:11,720 and stuff, which I kind of got to chuckle out 709 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,680 of that. I was like the running joke when the 710 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,519 guys like, I know you you eat monkeys and then 711 00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:18,519 he sits down with all the other gladiators. They're making 712 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:20,440 monkey noises at him. So I thought that was kind of. 713 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,359 Speaker 2: I like that. Yeah, I like that that didn't turn 714 00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:25,960 into classic high school movie thing of like they're always 715 00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:28,559 picking on him and he's like the little nerdy guy 716 00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:31,079 in the corner, Like he was laughing during that dinner 717 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:33,960 scene as well, kind of you know, sell a self 718 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,000 owned way, just like laughing about a little bit and 719 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:37,759 then like no one ever really mentions it again, like 720 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:39,279 they're not holding it over his head of like, oh, 721 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:41,839 this guy's a freak. You're a freak, Peter Parker. It's 722 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,880 more just that like it was just a funny thing 723 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,200 that happened, but he still obviously became the leader that 724 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,559 didn't stop that from happening. 725 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. One one. 726 00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:52,319 Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to call it a 727 00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:55,160 minor bee for otherwise, but I think, you know, they're 728 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,839 really setting up our character here. Lucy is to be 729 00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:01,160 as we mentioned, like kind of the replication of Maximus, 730 00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:03,160 and I think it's good that they take some deviations, 731 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,160 but one deviation I didn't like, But then again, maybe 732 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,000 i'd be coming the opposite of criticism if they just 733 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,039 copied it from the first one. I think Maximus and 734 00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:12,319 all these battles, even back to that very first one, 735 00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,480 was so much about the team of it. And obviously 736 00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:18,480 we had seen him leading an army in the start 737 00:33:18,519 --> 00:33:20,039 of the movie, so it made sense that he had 738 00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:22,759 that background. But I feel like Lucius as a character, 739 00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:24,160 they were trying to build him up in that same 740 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,480 way and that he was a great leader, and it 741 00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:27,480 got to that point where he was leading, especially in 742 00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:29,880 that boat battle, But I feel like to that point 743 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,200 we never really saw him working as a team. Like 744 00:33:32,279 --> 00:33:36,720 during the rhino battle, he's telling everyone like a general strategy, 745 00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:38,079 but I kind of feel like it was just a 746 00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:41,359 one on one battle that whole time. And like, especially 747 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,920 weirdly when after he bits the rhine oto the wall, 748 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,880 the wine rhino knocks itself out, the guy jumped, the 749 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,440 rhino rider jumps off and they fight. Why aren't the 750 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,279 other gladiators jumping to help Lucius at that point. 751 00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:52,359 Speaker 1: And just killed throw the shield? 752 00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:55,359 Speaker 2: That's it, Like they should have, like, as you said, 753 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,880 like a baboon, and they should have been swarming that 754 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,920 guy and just take him out. So that was weird 755 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,720 and maybe that just shows how they don't want to 756 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,039 work together, or they only care about themselves. I don't know, 757 00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:05,119 but even in that baboon battle, I was kind of 758 00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:08,039 hoping for a bit more teamwork between them, and then 759 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:09,800 I guess I also found it a bit odd that 760 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,440 in that fight, based on what we saw him do, 761 00:34:12,519 --> 00:34:15,000 which was like, I feel like he barely beat that babboon, 762 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:18,039 to be fair, and he only fought one. Because of that, 763 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:20,719 Macrinus was like, Oh, that is my boy, that is 764 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,679 my avatar, that is my gladiator. So all this is 765 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,119 like based off of this one thing. But I feel 766 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:29,360 like everyone else except for the guy who sacrificed himself, 767 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,199 wins that battle as well and succeeded against their babboon. 768 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 So I I don't know what he did that was 769 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,719 so special, And obviously he was correct because Lucius wasn't 770 00:34:39,039 --> 00:34:42,400 a great battler, great fighter, but it just seemed a 771 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,119 bit odd that there was really no teamwork there. It's 772 00:34:44,119 --> 00:34:47,360 not like Lucius was leading the charge. But as I said, 773 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,000 like everyone else kind of survived that, so it didn't 774 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,599 seem to be a very difficult battle actually at all. 775 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,360 But still it was the one that Macrinus was like, 776 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,559 oh damn, that's my boy. So some odd pace in 777 00:34:57,599 --> 00:35:00,280 there in terms of Lucius being the kind of fact 778 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,320 a leader, and maybe it's good that he's not just 779 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,880 such an obvious chosen one type character, but like, I 780 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,800 don't know, he still is, it's just shown a bit 781 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:07,840 differently in the battles. 782 00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I felt bad for his friend. You know, 783 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,719 they were obviously good buddies in the Kingdom there before 784 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,119 they got taken over by the Roman legionnaires and then 785 00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:19,280 they were thrown into the arena and his friend, like 786 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,039 Lucius is just like, okay, stay close to me, and 787 00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:25,280 then his friend just kneels down and just gets fucking 788 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:30,119 mauled by pam Boons. Baboon's just like right away, God, damn, 789 00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,280 that's that's not how I want to go. I don't 790 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,199 want to be just have my vocally. 791 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 2: After Lucius was like, please fight and stay alive. I 792 00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:41,119 need you dude. You're my friend. I look up to you, 793 00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:44,119 You're my leader. And he just gives up instantly. He's like, 794 00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:46,199 I don't I don't want nothing to do with this lifestyle. 795 00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:49,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was dead and now it's not good, not good. 796 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,599 But I like what you said though about him and 797 00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:55,679 the leadership qualities in comparison to Maximus, because yeah, he's 798 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,480 really not portrayed as that leader at the start. It 799 00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:01,800 develops for sure with the naval battle on that at 800 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,960 the very end when he's boosting up his gladiators and 801 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,360 they're going to go attack and save Licilla. But I 802 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,880 at the start, in that arena with I mean with 803 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,719 the bamboons, baboons, there's there's nothing of that, no leadership 804 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,400 at all. But when we get to that first arena 805 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,679 in the Colisseum or the first battle in the Colosseum, 806 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,199 and he's actually giving them just the advice, you still 807 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,760 have that one guy that's like, of course, fucking cowards, 808 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,840 and like what does he do. He's running with his 809 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,280 back to the rhino and the guy's got the little 810 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,840 like ball and chains and the bulls cooks them. 811 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is exactly like the first movie, right, and 812 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,400 the exact same sequence when you have all the people 813 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,920 shielding with the chariots coming in and there's the one 814 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,079 guy who like doesn't want to work with him, doesn't 815 00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:45,760 want to follow the plan, wants to do his own 816 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,159 thing and dies for it. So that that was a 817 00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:51,760 funny similarity to in terms of the pacing of the movies. 818 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and getting to that second arena battle, that was no, 819 00:36:57,519 --> 00:37:02,320 I don't know again historically accurate. If they actually got 820 00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:05,719 big ass sharks great whites in an arena like that, 821 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,159 that's and like not just one or two, but they 822 00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:13,159 had like at least over ten in there. That was crazy. 823 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,800 I don't know how they did it. That's some state 824 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,639 of the art architecture and like development in that little arena. 825 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:21,559 To do something like that, I thought it was cool. 826 00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:24,159 It was freaking awesome to see it, But just the 827 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,239 concept behind it, if it's accurate, that's what I want 828 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:28,400 to know, And I got to look into that. If 829 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,599 they actually were putting sharks in the Roman Colisseum, I. 830 00:37:31,519 --> 00:37:34,119 Speaker 2: Would wager that it is not real. That would be 831 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,159 my presumption. Yeah, a little bit of suspension of disbelief 832 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,440 is needed there. And that's another situation where like these 833 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:47,320 sharks cruising around is very uh CGI. I did think 834 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,280 that they had an odd strategy, well, both good and 835 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,119 an odd strategy where Lucius and the squad their goal is, Okay, 836 00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:57,239 let's let's fuck up the ores of our opponents here 837 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,880 and then they can't maneuver around and then we can 838 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,840 have our way with them. They do that, and then 839 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,880 they like duck at the right time to dodge the arrows. 840 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,360 They reposition the boat and then they ram into it 841 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,119 to break it in half. And I feel like, at 842 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,320 that point, isn't the idea to like break the boat 843 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,599 in half and then just like scoot out of there 844 00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:13,840 and let them just die to the sharks. But like 845 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:15,599 as soon as they crash into their boat, which is 846 00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:18,960 like it's sinking in seconds, they all jump off the boat, 847 00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:21,400 or at least Lucius does, jumps off their boat onto 848 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,440 the worst boat, like the strategically worst spot to be 849 00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:26,639 to like fight down there. So I don't know, maybe 850 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:30,559 it's nitpicky, but I felt like odd odd strategy, And yeah, 851 00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:33,559 I feel like the team rom there had no they 852 00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:35,800 had no plan, they had no leader, they had no Lucius, 853 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,440 they had no Maximus, because no one had any clue 854 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,239 what they were gonna do, even though like going into 855 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,079 that fight they would know what the fight was gonna be. 856 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,840 Presumably I assume that the people on Roman side are 857 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,079 given like the stats of like you're gonna fight this 858 00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,199 many people in this many places. These are the traps. 859 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,400 These are that kind of thing, And yeah, I feel 860 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,159 like they had no plan going in. 861 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, you know, going in taking out the 862 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,199 oars and the shards splintered up and like killed some 863 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,480 of those those guys. That was good. That was good. 864 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,119 And then yeah, ramming it after the fact too and 865 00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:11,360 disabling their ship permanently, that was pretty good. But in 866 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,360 the just sequence of them doing these things just didn't 867 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,159 really make sense to me. And I'm not like a 868 00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:20,840 master strategist, and I wasn't there in that situation, so 869 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,559 I was just watching it unfold. But for me, I think, Okay, 870 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,960 they the Gladiators don't have a long range weaponry, so 871 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,960 maybe that's why they had to ram that boat right 872 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,039 away and then bored it because they had to take 873 00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:36,119 him out because maybe it wasn't deep enough where the 874 00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:38,400 ship would fully sink below. 875 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 2: The water, and it did look pretty shallow. 876 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: It was pretty shallow. So if you disable it by 877 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,440 ramming it then back off a little bit, well they 878 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,880 can still pick you off. And they did lose a 879 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,760 fair bit of guys at doing the ore destruction and 880 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,360 then like circling around. 881 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,679 Speaker 2: The risky strategy for sure, very risky can easily go wrong. 882 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,519 I mean even maximuses or Maximus. You see, this is 883 00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:04,480 rhino strategy also high risk, high risk, y reward, clearly, 884 00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:06,599 but yeah, sketchy. 885 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: Move, yeah, very sketchy. I did like when that was 886 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,000 the first time Lucius like grabs the dirt and like 887 00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:15,719 it's picking it up, and Lucilla's just like like chills, 888 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:17,920 you know, like oh my gosh, and she. 889 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,199 Speaker 2: Kept sniffing seeing someone pick up dirt before, yes, and 890 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,119 stab their sword into the ground. 891 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,559 Speaker 1: And that's right, it's exactly. I can't remember though, with 892 00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:28,920 the lavender if that was a reoccurring thing from the 893 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,280 first one, if she was doing that in that movie, 894 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,239 or I was trying to think, like why is she 895 00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:36,239 in all our scenes sniffing lavenders? Like what is the 896 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,199 significance of that? 897 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 2: God, I'm trying to remember what he says, like Maximus, 898 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,760 what his favorite because isn't doesn't he meant isn't lavender thing? 899 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,519 In the first one as well, he's talking about herbs 900 00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:47,079 and stuff. 901 00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:50,039 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a look here, see. 902 00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:51,599 Speaker 2: But you're a good, good point. I kind of forgot 903 00:40:51,639 --> 00:40:52,800 about that. But being right, I feel like there's a 904 00:40:52,840 --> 00:41:00,360 lot of imagery of her rocking some herbs there. Hmmm, yeah, 905 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,119 no obvious connection. 906 00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: No obvious connections. No, but there's gotta be something something, 907 00:41:05,039 --> 00:41:05,400 I'm sure. 908 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he wanted to be a farmer and 909 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,400 you wanted to farm things like that, so maybe maybe 910 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:10,840 lavender was in the equation. 911 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 912 00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:15,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. Should we bring in this question from Tyler? I 913 00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:16,840 think this is a great question that I'm really excited 914 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,440 to get into. Is did I forget something from the 915 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,639 first movie or is it never mentioned in the first 916 00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:24,000 movie that Lucius is Maximus's son as far as I 917 00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:27,039 can remember, they just changed it for this movie. So 918 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,199 this is fun because in the retro for the first one, 919 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,280 we talked about this and all three of us, me 920 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,320 and you and Kirkland said, yeah, it's possible based on 921 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:41,559 the movie. Here like, they never answer it. It's odd 922 00:41:41,599 --> 00:41:43,239 that they don't answer it, giving it such a big 923 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,920 plot point. It's plausible that he could be the sun, 924 00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:49,639 but probably not, and none of us wanted it. That 925 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,199 was I think the biggest takeaway in that discussion was 926 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,960 none the three of us wanted us wanted that to 927 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,519 be the writing in this movie, for that to be 928 00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:00,400 the connection point. So how do you feel know that 929 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,880 you've seen the movie and that is confirmed that Lucia's 930 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,239 is in fact Maximus's son. 931 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,639 Speaker 1: I'm still not a big fan of it. I feel 932 00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:09,400 like they backtracked because the way I took it in 933 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,679 that first movie was Maximus and Luscilla had a relationship 934 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,840 and then they went their separate ways, and then they 935 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,480 they found partners after the fact and then had kids. 936 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 2: But now, which also makes sense, because their sons in 937 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,800 that movie are around the same age. It looks like, right, yeah, 938 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,599 you would think that they had their kids around the 939 00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:32,519 same time. So Maximus was exactly really close with when 940 00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:35,159 he had his kidd he hook up with Lucilla clearly. 941 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we get this whole sequence here where 942 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,480 they're just talking about how the rumors were, like, oh, 943 00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:43,280 the rumor was it was commonest, right, that was with her? 944 00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:45,880 And then oh no, the rumor was, Okay, well she 945 00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:49,679 was with I guess the father's name was Lucius as well, 946 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,480 So she was with him, and he did fancy her. 947 00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:56,199 He fancied men, and so that's where okay, well, really 948 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,920 like that's why she had you know, lovers and whatnot. 949 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:03,960 Like Maximus, who obviously was the father of the son 950 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,880 which is kind of like the go to here. So yeah, 951 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,159 I mean there again, it's just them soft rebooting and 952 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,119 or recconning kind of the pre established narrative that they 953 00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:16,719 already whipped up right, which is just it's a little 954 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,400 bit weird. Maybe they just thought, like, you know, this 955 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,400 is actually a good kind of story plot, let's stick 956 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,079 with this, let's just run with it. I would have 957 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:24,000 liked it if they just kept it kind of ambiguous 958 00:43:24,039 --> 00:43:26,440 and not actually give us that confirmation like he is 959 00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:29,840 Maximus's son. I think he could have someone have him 960 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,400 be this character that again he looked up to Maximus 961 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,239 in that first movie, and so have it set up 962 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,360 where he's still looking up to him and wants to 963 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,000 represent everything that Maximus believed in. That would have been 964 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,159 good enough for me. I didn't necessarily need it to 965 00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:42,440 be like, oh, yeah, he's the son. 966 00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't. I don't love it, but 967 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,159 I think I dislike it less than I thought it 968 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,800 would based on that retrospective. I'm not going to go 969 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,639 as as far as to say that it's a retcon, 970 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,719 because I do feel like the first movie did leave 971 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,760 it ambiguous whether or not that was the case, and 972 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,679 I think, as we just talked about with the Ages 973 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,840 of the Suns, it is a bit it's like, oh, Maximus, 974 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,960 you were really really close to when you got with 975 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,599 your wife, clearly like when this happened. It seems based 976 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:12,199 on just like judging how old those actors look, which 977 00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:16,079 maybe we're digging too much into the weeds there, but yeah, 978 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,920 I don't I guess even in this movie, like technically 979 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,159 she says that to him, she could just be saying 980 00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:24,480 it as a way to motivate him because she knew 981 00:44:24,519 --> 00:44:26,880 that he did look up to him. But then she 982 00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,000 also does tell it to Acacius, which feels like, Okay, 983 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,840 I don't know why she would necessarily do that, or 984 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,559 maybe she just said it to him so that Acacias 985 00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:36,119 would have this way to bond with him in the 986 00:44:36,159 --> 00:44:38,079 arena when they're thrown against each other. So I guess 987 00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:40,239 you could make the case that she was just saying 988 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,639 that and it's not confirmed, but I feel like that's 989 00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:44,400 a bit of a that's a bit of copium, I think, 990 00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:47,039 to go about it that way, and I feel like 991 00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:50,440 it is kind of just confirmed at this point, but 992 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,599 you know, we really don't know. It's not like we 993 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,360 get a flashback scene of them going at it. You know, 994 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,679 it's not like they bring back Russell Crowe, and like, 995 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,199 I filmed this scene, So I don't know. It technically 996 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,199 could still be ambiguous, but I feel like it's pretty 997 00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:08,519 hard to believe that train of thought. I and I think, 998 00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:11,400 you know, it doesn't make sense from that perspective. Lucius 999 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,480 did really look up to him and these things of 1000 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,719 replicating his movements, stabbing sword on the ground, picking up 1001 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,840 the sand. Obviously, like near the start of the movie 1002 00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:20,840 when he's in the fields, he's like playing with the 1003 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,239 rice or the grain whatever, and he's doing like a 1004 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,280 very similar thing. So even before he knows about that, 1005 00:45:26,639 --> 00:45:28,360 he's doing some of these things that are very similar 1006 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,760 to Maximus. And yeah, okay, it could be like a 1007 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,800 DNA thing. He is his father's son, but also like 1008 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,159 that kid just really looked up to Maximus and washed 1009 00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:38,840 a lot of his battles and was stoked to be 1010 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,519 able to talk to him, So he could just be 1011 00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:42,960 like looking up to him and trying to, you know, 1012 00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:46,280 conscious or unconsciously, just like kind of replicating the movements 1013 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,599 of his hero in a way. So I don't know, 1014 00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:50,920 I feel like there is some elements of it that 1015 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,960 I think are fine. I think where I don't really 1016 00:45:55,039 --> 00:45:57,760 like it is I felt like the part with Acacious 1017 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,679 thrown into the ring with Lucius at the end and 1018 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,119 being like, wait, stop, don't kill me, Let's have this conversation, 1019 00:46:05,159 --> 00:46:07,440 and he's like, I looked up at Maximus and I 1020 00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:11,000 love your mother. Like I did not like that at all. 1021 00:46:11,039 --> 00:46:14,960 I felt like that was very, very cheesy. I feel 1022 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,199 like also Lucius, like, I don't know at what point 1023 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,599 did his hate or like his revenge tail turn from 1024 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,320 I want to kill Acacius. So I guess it turned 1025 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,199 out I want to kill the emperors and like overthrow 1026 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,400 them and like start a new Rome. But I kind 1027 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,400 of feel like even if that was his goal, he 1028 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,280 would probably still want to kill Acacius because Acaciaus did 1029 00:46:33,679 --> 00:46:36,800 directly have his his wife killed. So to me, it 1030 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,280 felt like, given that that was the first scene that 1031 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,800 really turned Lucius on and his perspective Acacius, I didn't 1032 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,800 really buy into him having that turn of wanting to 1033 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,360 not kill him and get revenge for his wife, because 1034 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,840 even like we talked about Maximus, it's like, okay, he's 1035 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,800 kissing Lucilla by the end of the first movie, like 1036 00:46:54,039 --> 00:46:55,519 is he doing this for his wife? Does he forget 1037 00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:57,800 about his wife already? Now we know there's potentially more 1038 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,960 baggage if like he has a another he has a 1039 00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:02,880 kid with his lady, Obviously that changes a lot of 1040 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,400 that conversation that we had. But like at the end 1041 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,639 of this movie, I guess Lucius is thinking more about 1042 00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:11,039 Maximus than his wife, but he is still like very 1043 00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:13,000 much rate to the end of the movie, having these 1044 00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:16,199 those visions which are similar but different than the visions 1045 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,800 Maximus was having of picturing his wife in kind of 1046 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,239 the afterlife or entering Valhalla or whatever the Roman equivalent 1047 00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:22,599 would be. 1048 00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:28,360 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, no, I agree. There's a point I 1049 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,239 wanted to bring up, and I will do so after 1050 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:37,000 this quick ad break and we are back. I still 1051 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,400 can't remember what my point was. 1052 00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:41,639 Speaker 2: But Acacius was someone Acacius. I am curious how you 1053 00:47:41,639 --> 00:47:45,119 feel about Lucius's turn there and not wanting to kill him, Like, 1054 00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:47,519 do you feel like that was justified based on their 1055 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:50,159 scene together there or am I missing maybe another scene 1056 00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:53,719 of context that you can think of was not justified. 1057 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,079 Speaker 1: I needed more more time between them because the last 1058 00:47:57,119 --> 00:48:01,480 time they confront each other, just is flying a crossbow 1059 00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:04,039 up at the stands to try and execute him on 1060 00:48:04,039 --> 00:48:07,039 the spot, right, Like, it's just we need more connection 1061 00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:09,960 between the two. So it's very unfortunate we didn't get that, 1062 00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:12,519 because yeah, him just kind of like down his knees, 1063 00:48:12,639 --> 00:48:16,920 waving his hands like apologizing and whatnot. That's not necessarily 1064 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,480 good enough. It would have been nice to get a 1065 00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:20,320 little bit more build up, even if he's like he 1066 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,599 visits Lucius in the gladiator pits and like he's like 1067 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,199 chained up and can't fight back, and you have him 1068 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,960 kind of like confront him a bit, tell him the 1069 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,199 truth and stuff like that, and then like even Lucius said, 1070 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,480 like you killed my wife. Everything, Like there's so much 1071 00:48:33,519 --> 00:48:35,320 that could have just been kind of explored a little 1072 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,199 bit more, but they didn't dive into that. So it's 1073 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,280 a shame. But again, like Pedro's fantastic. I think he 1074 00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:46,719 did a great job as a character. Yeah, and he 1075 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,920 just I think everything with him, like we got more 1076 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:55,239 between Acacius and the emperors, and I did like all 1077 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,639 that stuff. I thought that was very fitting. But in 1078 00:48:59,119 --> 00:49:01,559 the end of all things here, which they he just 1079 00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:04,639 kind of became like a martyr, because when Acasius was 1080 00:49:04,679 --> 00:49:07,760 just shot down and then everyone's just freaking out, and 1081 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,039 I like, we already brought this up, but just that 1082 00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:12,119 the speech that Luca said, like this, see how they 1083 00:49:12,119 --> 00:49:14,280 treat their heroes. Do you think he'll treat you any better? 1084 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,880 Kind of stuff like that, So I thought that was 1085 00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:16,960 that was pretty good. 1086 00:49:17,159 --> 00:49:17,599 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 1087 00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1088 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,599 Speaker 2: I think I think I'm a bit of on the 1089 00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:23,119 opposite side of the Golden Roman coin from you on. 1090 00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:27,039 Like I love Pedro, but I was pretty disappointed with 1091 00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:29,199 him in this movie. I mean, that ending scene does 1092 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,639 not help and then I'd explain why I don't like that, 1093 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:34,400 but I to me, I felt like, out of most 1094 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,119 of the characters here, he was the one that felt 1095 00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:38,960 the most derivative of a character from the first movie, 1096 00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:42,480 just being Okay, he's the he's the leader of these armies. 1097 00:49:42,519 --> 00:49:45,000 He's a great fighter. The people look up to him. 1098 00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:48,239 He's a symbol for Rome, and you know, the people 1099 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,239 want to see him win and want to want to 1100 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,400 give him mercy and things like that. But then I 1101 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,639 feel like it never really and like he's also a 1102 00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:57,039 lover of Lucilla in that same way, but I never 1103 00:49:57,039 --> 00:49:59,440 feel like it really went past that, and I don't 1104 00:49:59,559 --> 00:50:01,000 when I think back on it, I don't know if 1105 00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:05,159 I have of like, oh damn, Pedro like acted his 1106 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:07,119 ass off in that scene. I think he really delivered, 1107 00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:08,880 Like I don't think he has a moment, and I 1108 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,880 don't think it's his fall. I think it's more on 1109 00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:12,840 the script side and what the purpose of that character was. 1110 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,280 And then I feel like this movie just has more 1111 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,599 characters overall than that first movie did, so naturally, everyone's 1112 00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:20,360 gonna have a little bit less time other than like 1113 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,760 your main protagonist of Lucius, who gets a ton of content. 1114 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,039 So yeah, I just I don't feel like I really 1115 00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:28,159 had a standout moment or two of his and I 1116 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,800 liked a couple of his stuff, but overall felt a 1117 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,119 little too derivative, So I wasn't a big fan of him. 1118 00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:36,639 I think we should. I guess we should talk about 1119 00:50:36,679 --> 00:50:38,480 these emperors a little bit. We haven't even talked about 1120 00:50:38,519 --> 00:50:41,800 them at all yet. Yes, But to me, I think 1121 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,119 this was maybe one of the most disappointing part parts 1122 00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:48,400 of the movie in that you can go back to 1123 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,960 our retro and like Colmedist, I thought was such a 1124 00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:55,800 well written, well acted character, a character who you could 1125 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,320 like see as motivations, but he was like he was 1126 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,159 deeply flawed in his He was creepy when he needed 1127 00:51:02,199 --> 00:51:03,960 to be. He was a bit intimidating when he needed 1128 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,559 to be. He was such a weasel. I thought he 1129 00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:09,039 was such a fun character and such a great villain 1130 00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:11,920 and like a through line for the movie. I think 1131 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:15,000 in this movie, it it had a lot more sub 1132 00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:17,159 villains and there's a lot more like things going on there. 1133 00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:18,880 But I think in terms of like the two emperors, 1134 00:51:19,519 --> 00:51:23,320 I just don't feel like I ever knew why were 1135 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,079 they so bad as emperors? I actually cannot answer that question. 1136 00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,480 Can you answer that question for me? Like other than 1137 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,760 like they they're they're they they're kind of cocky, Like 1138 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,599 I don't actually know why they're a bad leader of Rome. 1139 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,960 Like I couldn't give you that answer because I feel 1140 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,039 like we just didn't really get any information on about 1141 00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:44,519 like what they want to do. Like columnists, they set 1142 00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:47,079 up so much of like here's the systems. He's dismantling. 1143 00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:50,239 He's dismantling the Senate. He doesn't care about the sick people. 1144 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,519 All he cares about is the games, And like these emperors, 1145 00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:56,280 they care about the games too, but like what else, 1146 00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:57,480 I feel like we need a bit more. They're a 1147 00:51:57,519 --> 00:51:59,760 bit too flat for me, I suppose so. 1148 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,400 Speaker 1: But there was a brief little bit of dialogue where 1149 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:07,840 they it was during the riot and it was at night, 1150 00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:10,400 and they were basically saying, all the preatorians will handle 1151 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,880 this again like they did before. So it tells me, Okay, 1152 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,559 the people have rided over these emperors multiple times, so 1153 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,840 I think, okay, they have a lack of compassion for 1154 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,920 the people, and they, like with commonests. You have him 1155 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,440 as an emperor who actually listened to the people in 1156 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,639 the arena reluctantly, like he would not. He would show 1157 00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:32,079 mercy or he would kill, base on what the people 1158 00:52:32,119 --> 00:52:34,559 were asking for. And I think that's what makes him 1159 00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:37,280 very unique and different compared to these emperors where the 1160 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,519 people were like chanting for one thing or another and 1161 00:52:40,679 --> 00:52:43,679 these emperors were just dismissing it, disregarding it and doing 1162 00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,440 their own things. So I think at the end, the 1163 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,320 differences between these guys and the commonists is that they 1164 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,519 don't care what the people want. They're just doing their 1165 00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,800 decisions no matter what. And they're also on this like 1166 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,719 war hungry campaign, right whereas commonists. I think he was 1167 00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,679 more or less like done with the war. His father 1168 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,239 had done his like German Germania, Germanic campaign, and so 1169 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:04,840 Commerce is like, oh, we're gonna do the games, We're 1170 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,559 gonna take it easy. But these guys are like, Okay, no, 1171 00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:08,320 we're going to war. We got other places to call it. 1172 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,679 Speaker 2: Don't But don't people love And even in this movie 1173 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,960 like Hidden it like they're hitting it over and over again, 1174 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,639 like people love Marcus Rellies. He was an amazing leader, 1175 00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,639 But wasn't he that same way of just like endlessly 1176 00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:23,480 killing societies and going on war rampages and even Maximus 1177 00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:26,079 wanted to end them, but Marcus was like, no, next battle, 1178 00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:27,679 next battle, let's go take up more people. 1179 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,400 Speaker 1: He was, And I feel like there's there's still not 1180 00:53:30,519 --> 00:53:32,440 enough that we could really kind of like in retrospect 1181 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,840 look back and kind of understand that because like, yeah, 1182 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,960 he was off fighting his campaigns. He wasn't back home 1183 00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:41,119 leading right like this. The people that were to charge 1184 00:53:41,159 --> 00:53:42,599 of Rome was I guess like more of like a 1185 00:53:42,639 --> 00:53:46,039 CRRP senate and some other CRUP politicians and whatnot, So 1186 00:53:46,119 --> 00:53:47,840 we didn't really get to see that he was just 1187 00:53:49,039 --> 00:53:50,960 he was just kind of like away from it, almost 1188 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,599 like he just didn't like it because Rome was sick 1189 00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:54,199 and he was trying to get away from that and 1190 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,480 wanted to come back and make Rome what it could be, 1191 00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,360 almost like after going through all these military care paigns. 1192 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,079 And this is my own perspective, so take out a 1193 00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:04,679 grain of salt. Going through all the military campaigns with 1194 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,960 Maximus is kind of what changed him and put him 1195 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,840 in the position like, Okay, we need to go back 1196 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,039 to Rome after this campaign and make it better. Whereas 1197 00:54:12,679 --> 00:54:14,719 I mean, yeah, the fighting was done when Communists was 1198 00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,840 there and these guys were just corrupt and the twin 1199 00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,159 emperors just want to take over and conquer, which, by 1200 00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:24,440 the way, Joseph Quinn was fantastic. I think he didn't 1201 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,679 one emperor like he was just I thought he was 1202 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,119 super like cuckoo and crazy and all that, but also. 1203 00:54:31,159 --> 00:54:34,000 Speaker 2: Terrifying at points when he needed to be. Even though 1204 00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:37,880 he wasn't never shown to be a competent fighter, I 1205 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,320 still found like when he you know, he always had 1206 00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,119 the makeup around the eyes and when like he stared 1207 00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:44,519 you down like you were you were scared, whereas the 1208 00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:46,920 other guy, I was never really scared. Of him, and 1209 00:54:47,079 --> 00:54:49,400 he was supposed to be more like the silly one, 1210 00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:50,960 so you know, I don't think that was ever like 1211 00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:53,960 his purpose. But yeah, Joseph Quinn, I think he did 1212 00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:56,800 a great job given that it's a very flat character 1213 00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:00,480 with like you know, communists, very well rounded character, even 1214 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,360 if he's like very evil and bad. I don't feel 1215 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,599 like this character really had that. But he still just 1216 00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:07,880 did a great job with the performance. So yeah, I 1217 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,880 did everything he could give him the material. 1218 00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,559 Speaker 1: Kind of kind of a side note. Do you you 1219 00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:14,760 know the hound in Game of Thrones? Right? 1220 00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:17,400 Speaker 2: Is he in season one? 1221 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:18,000 Speaker 1: Yes? 1222 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,960 Speaker 2: Oh, then I have seen season one. Who's the act. 1223 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,519 Speaker 1: He's got like the burnt face, long black hair. His 1224 00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:26,760 brother was like the big guy the mountain. 1225 00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:29,519 Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm not a game, not a big Game 1226 00:55:29,559 --> 00:55:30,039 of Thrones guy. 1227 00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:31,679 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I'm gonna show you. 1228 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,360 Speaker 2: Someone reminiscent of this character for you. 1229 00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: Oh well, character, he this guy, he was actually in 1230 00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:45,119 this movie. He was there was the main Preatorian guard 1231 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,960 who was he was leading the army basically, And when 1232 00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:53,159 Denzel's Washington character, Denzel Washington's character is like, okay, we'll 1233 00:55:53,159 --> 00:55:54,960 meet them at the gates and the command general is 1234 00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,760 like okay, and then they go out there and so 1235 00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:59,760 then you see this guy Rory mcnahnon. He's leading the 1236 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,119 whole army against the Legionnaires. So I just thought that 1237 00:56:03,159 --> 00:56:05,639 was crazy because I haven't seen them in much anything 1238 00:56:05,639 --> 00:56:08,639 else aside from Knuckles and Game of Thrones, so it's 1239 00:56:08,679 --> 00:56:09,760 nice to see him ring too. 1240 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,840 Speaker 2: These brothers, how do you think they came into power? 1241 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:23,280 Speaker 1: Fuck? I have no idea. Jesus Christ again, sixteen years, 1242 00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:27,360 sixteen short freaking years, and these guys just crept in there, 1243 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,079 Like what was the Senate doing? They were doing something wrong? 1244 00:56:30,159 --> 00:56:34,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I find that something that I'm not gonna call 1245 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,679 it a plot hole because like it happens in between 1246 00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,840 the movies, so it's like any reason could exist. But 1247 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,199 at no point did I feel like they were cunning 1248 00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:49,400 or intelligent or good fighters or smart politically, like did 1249 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,320 they climb up through the ranks politically? Doesn't seem like it. 1250 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,000 So that's an issue I have, is like, don't I 1251 00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,119 don't know how these guys gone to where they are. 1252 00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,079 That's kind of a problem for me, given that I'm 1253 00:56:59,079 --> 00:57:02,000 supposed to fear them as like the leaders of Rome, 1254 00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:05,360 like the most powerful civilization in at least this part 1255 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,480 of the world at this point in time. It's I 1256 00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:11,159 don't know, it's unbelievable. I feel like I needed a 1257 00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:12,639 little bit more explained there. 1258 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And this is where I have to 1259 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,159 look into it to see if this is historically accurate too, 1260 00:57:18,159 --> 00:57:19,719 if there was a point in time where these two 1261 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,760 twin emperors just actually took over Rome or whatnot. But 1262 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,880 I'm not I'm not sure and how that remains to 1263 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,199 be seen. But anyways, if the sake of the movie, yeah, 1264 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:34,599 I don't know their ancestry, I don't know their their lineage. 1265 00:57:34,679 --> 00:57:36,480 I don't know how they got in if it, like 1266 00:57:36,519 --> 00:57:39,360 you said, if it was through political power, through it 1267 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:45,480 was financial power, just how they did it, I just 1268 00:57:45,519 --> 00:57:48,480 don't get it. Now, obviously we have a void because 1269 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,519 when Lucius was sent away as a boy at the 1270 00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:55,599 age of twelve, we have no one leading room, no emperor, 1271 00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:59,159 so right, and I doubt that we had one in 1272 00:57:59,199 --> 00:58:03,559 between Lucius running away, Commonist dying and then the twins 1273 00:58:03,639 --> 00:58:05,920 taking over. It just doesn't make sense because it was 1274 00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,599 sixteen years so I imagine that, Hey, you have the Senate 1275 00:58:09,679 --> 00:58:11,800 that is supposed to take control and it's supposed to 1276 00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,320 be running things and put the power back into the people. 1277 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,800 Now that dream is slowly starting to fade away, and 1278 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,960 then you have these two twins show up. But it 1279 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,840 doesn't make sense. The Senate would be in control here, 1280 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,079 they would have Maximus' arby as well, so things should 1281 00:58:27,079 --> 00:58:29,840 be okay. But the only thing that we have to 1282 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,840 go off of is that this dream was just forgotten 1283 00:58:33,239 --> 00:58:37,320 and these two fucking lunatics took over the like the throne, 1284 00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,320 and it's just like, I don't understand that. It doesn't 1285 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,840 make sense to me, but maybe it's just well, I 1286 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,679 don't know. It just makes the people to be just 1287 00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:48,159 really really dumb, and maybe are they trying to make 1288 00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:48,559 them done? 1289 00:58:48,599 --> 00:58:50,559 Speaker 2: You know, it's once again hard for root for the 1290 00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:54,159 people of Rome. Like I want the civilian people to 1291 00:58:54,199 --> 00:58:58,440 be safe and free and not actively at war all 1292 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,760 these things, but I don't know, like what am I 1293 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,960 supposed to do? Like they've given me no reason to 1294 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,079 want to root for them, so I'm like, I don't 1295 00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:08,679 really care whatever happens happens. 1296 00:59:09,719 --> 00:59:12,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's a real tough one for me 1297 00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:13,800 to to figure out. 1298 00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,280 Speaker 2: My goodness, Uh, how about how about we pivot then 1299 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:22,559 to Macronus, who Denzel Washington is rocking this role here 1300 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,119 because I feel like I've been very negative on this 1301 00:59:25,159 --> 00:59:27,280 review before, which you know, is maybe how it goes. 1302 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:31,639 But I absolutely loved this character. I, as I mentioned 1303 00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:33,639 in my non spoilers, is the character I was talking about. 1304 00:59:33,679 --> 00:59:36,199 I think this is my favorite maybe well written character 1305 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,719 across the two movies. Columnists maybe up there. I think 1306 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,199 he's very very well done as well, but I think 1307 00:59:41,239 --> 00:59:45,039 Macronus was was so interesting and compelling and it's funny 1308 00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:47,679 how once again he is a character that is kind 1309 00:59:47,679 --> 00:59:50,960 of mirroring Proximo from the first one. Now, Proximo is 1310 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,360 a much much more minor role in the first one, 1311 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:54,679 and he's not as big of a deal in like 1312 00:59:54,679 --> 00:59:56,880 the third act of that movie. But in terms of 1313 00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,639 like being the guy who runs this this smaller outside 1314 01:00:00,679 --> 01:00:05,800 of Rome finds the protagonist gladiator character, putting them in 1315 01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:10,280 the ring, kind of always whispering the sweet nothing's into 1316 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,400 the emperors or like Caesar's ear, and like kind of 1317 01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,719 climbing up the political ladder from there. I think it's 1318 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,880 kind of it starts out that way with as it 1319 01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,239 does with Proximal, but I think Macronus is a character 1320 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,920 that has given so much more to do, and I 1321 01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,519 think the path that he snakes his way through in 1322 01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:31,440 this movie is so fun and engaging to me, so 1323 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,480 as I as I mentioned, they're kind of getting getting 1324 01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:35,880 grabbing this gladiator who clearly he has the right read 1325 01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,159 that this guy, this is the guy, this is the 1326 01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,320 guy with who's gonna have plot armor and is never 1327 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,719 gonna die. And and the way he leverages that to 1328 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,000 just gain power slowly or quickly even I guess through 1329 01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:49,920 through Rome is really really good. 1330 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:50,519 Speaker 1: Uh. 1331 01:00:50,639 --> 01:00:53,119 Speaker 2: And the way he kind of just slowly drives a 1332 01:00:53,159 --> 01:00:57,519 wedge between the brothers, and like obviously we see Cara 1333 01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:00,599 Kala is the one brother who eventually turns on his brother, 1334 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,840 and the way that he just like pushes him into 1335 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,320 doing that by like kind of bringing up these insecurities 1336 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,320 that he has and then like confirming his suspicions that 1337 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,519 his brother doesn't trust him, wants to go against him, 1338 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:14,760 and then literally to the point where he is holding 1339 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,599 the knife with him as he cuts his brother's throat. 1340 01:01:18,199 --> 01:01:20,440 Like all of that I think is very very well 1341 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,079 done and to me, very believable for what this emperor 1342 01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:25,400 was showing once again, I don't know how that guy 1343 01:01:25,679 --> 01:01:27,840 came to power in Rome. That makes no sense to me, 1344 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,599 but at least for the character we were shown, I 1345 01:01:29,639 --> 01:01:31,280 think it makes total sense how he's able to do 1346 01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,280 that and then coming up with this brilliant plan to 1347 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,639 throw Lucilla out there in the battle and have her sacrificed, 1348 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,639 which is gonna cause it Like, one, it's gonna take 1349 01:01:39,679 --> 01:01:42,679 a huge player that's against him, and then two it's 1350 01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:46,480 gonna make people hate Caracala, and then he's immediately gonna 1351 01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,000 take him out and take the throne. I think, like 1352 01:01:48,039 --> 01:01:51,639 that is a brilliant plan and I like it. You know, 1353 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,480 he almost got away with it too, for those Medaling kids. 1354 01:01:54,639 --> 01:01:57,599 I think he is just such a well done character. 1355 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,559 I just love seeing him weasel him his way through 1356 01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:03,159 all these all these different ranks and uh as you 1357 01:02:03,199 --> 01:02:05,400 filled me in with too, like being the one that 1358 01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:09,800 kind of gains the information through his various uh I 1359 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,119 don't know, through his various people that he trusts and 1360 01:02:12,159 --> 01:02:14,960 trusts him, gains the information that the coup is happening, 1361 01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:17,519 and then feeding that back to the Brothers so that 1362 01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:19,480 he can continue to make this plan happen that will 1363 01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,920 put him in power rather than these other people where 1364 01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,480 he'd maybe still be the second, third, fourth in command. 1365 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,039 Just all of it is like really really cool, really 1366 01:02:27,079 --> 01:02:29,559 well done, and just such a fun pathway for a character. 1367 01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:31,639 So big shouts to Macronus. 1368 01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:37,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate how he was the like opposite 1369 01:02:37,079 --> 01:02:43,039 Proximo in this movie, and you're Proximo Funwards. Yeah, Like he, 1370 01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:46,280 like Proximo, was just this former gladiator, former slave who 1371 01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,039 got his freedom and just loved the arena and loved 1372 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:55,159 uh like Marcus Aurelius, and really did believe in Maximus 1373 01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:58,119 for the right reasons, to the point where he was 1374 01:02:58,159 --> 01:03:00,880 willing to help with this whole coup said free everything 1375 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:05,880 like that. Whereas in this case you have Macrinus who 1376 01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:10,079 is just goes along this he's introduced in the same way, 1377 01:03:10,159 --> 01:03:13,000 goes along the same trajectory. But for him, he sees 1378 01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:16,519 Lucius only as a means to benefit what he wants, 1379 01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:19,280 and he is not turning to the good side, not 1380 01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,639 helping with this rebellion. He is instead turning all turning 1381 01:03:22,639 --> 01:03:25,360 the evidence into the emperors and that's that. And yeah, 1382 01:03:25,519 --> 01:03:29,440 just how how evil and conniving he gets when yeah, 1383 01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,760 he's helping hold the hand of the emperor as he's 1384 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:36,159 slashing in his brother and and he executes him, and 1385 01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:41,599 he's just then taking control. It's just amazing how fast 1386 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,239 he moves up, and it shows how corrupt the system 1387 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:48,280 is because he I mean, he used to serve in 1388 01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:53,880 the army, as we learn under Marcus Aurelius. Yeah, that's right. 1389 01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:57,480 He ended up becoming a slave, getting his freedom, and 1390 01:03:57,519 --> 01:04:00,639 then all of a sudden you have him working his 1391 01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:02,760 way up to almost taking control of Rome. It's just 1392 01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,000 absolutely crazy to think about that, and I'm I would 1393 01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,239 have been curious to see what the fallout would have been. 1394 01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,960 Let's say Lucius did die and you have Macronus just 1395 01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:15,039 charging out ahead of his the Preatorian army to face 1396 01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:18,519 the Legionnaires. What narrative was he going to spin, like, oh, 1397 01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:22,480 the gladiators like killed Lucilla or something like that. I 1398 01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,320 don't know, Like it's just there's some I wonder what 1399 01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:26,599 he was going to say, because he's so good at 1400 01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:29,400 being manipulative in this movie, and so I really do 1401 01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:32,760 like his character. H Yeah, he's just he's got this 1402 01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,480 weird commanding presence when he's on on screen. Something like that. 1403 01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:40,000 I like how he was able to figure out that 1404 01:04:40,159 --> 01:04:43,079 Lucilla's son was Lucius and kind of like to do 1405 01:04:43,199 --> 01:04:45,119 so all that and I think that was that was 1406 01:04:45,159 --> 01:04:46,760 pretty cool. But yeah, he was. He was a really 1407 01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:51,440 good character. And yeah, he loses a hand. Not not great, 1408 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,719 but a very cool scene like when they were fighting 1409 01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:56,719 and he's like they're in the water and he's just 1410 01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,360 fucking jabbing his sword in there and all you see 1411 01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,159 is like the sword just like ding ding ding hitting 1412 01:05:02,239 --> 01:05:06,880 the Yeah, he was so close. 1413 01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,920 Speaker 2: So Lucius, who has not worn a helmet once in 1414 01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,280 this whole movie always, even in that opening battle, I'm like, 1415 01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:15,599 I know, this is like a hot actor and you watched, 1416 01:05:16,199 --> 01:05:18,280 but like gome On put a helmet on dude. 1417 01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:21,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they did with Maximus. 1418 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,920 Speaker 2: So yes, for for a short while. Yeah, I think 1419 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:26,639 you know a couple of other points with him is 1420 01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,639 I love because because as I mentioned, like okay, in 1421 01:05:30,639 --> 01:05:32,559 that Baboon fight, a lot of people did well, but 1422 01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:34,000 I guess it was a really good read on him. 1423 01:05:34,039 --> 01:05:37,159 That what was different about Lucius, it was the rage. 1424 01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,960 It wasn't that he was the most entertaining or even 1425 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,119 the most intelligent or strongest or biggest. It was it 1426 01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:45,960 was that rage, which is one that's like great for 1427 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,480 a villain, right because like that rage comes from like 1428 01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:51,280 this grief, which is the loss of his wife. So 1429 01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,800 he's like taking this really distorted motivation and just like 1430 01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,880 using it to his advantage. And I think that's like 1431 01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:03,920 that was ultimately his downfall is he just never never 1432 01:06:04,039 --> 01:06:07,119 truly respected Lucius. He always just saw him as a tool, 1433 01:06:07,159 --> 01:06:09,559 and that's where he you know, he was trying to 1434 01:06:09,559 --> 01:06:11,760 make him the best fighter he could be, but only 1435 01:06:12,239 --> 01:06:13,880 for a means to an en andy. He never really 1436 01:06:14,119 --> 01:06:16,239 saw him as a person. He never saw him as 1437 01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,239 like someone who could claim his freedom or go against him, 1438 01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,000 which is interesting because it seems like, okay, based on 1439 01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:24,719 his backstory, it seems like he was maybe in a 1440 01:06:24,719 --> 01:06:29,039 similar position as as Lucius once was, and he overcame that. 1441 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,440 But he obviously felt so highly about himself, had such 1442 01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:34,280 a big ego that he didn't feel like anyone else 1443 01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,280 could do that, only he was capable of such a thing. 1444 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,719 And obviously, yeah, Lucius breaks out of the cage at 1445 01:06:40,719 --> 01:06:42,960 the end because of his friendship there with Rove, and 1446 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,599 that's what leads to kind of the overthrowing of that 1447 01:06:45,639 --> 01:06:48,320 whole battle going on, So that was really cool, And 1448 01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,000 I had one question for you on the character's motivation 1449 01:06:51,119 --> 01:06:53,480 for Macronus. Obviously, he wants a great gain power of Rome. 1450 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,559 And one thing he says, and I'm you know, paraphrasing here, 1451 01:06:56,679 --> 01:06:57,840 I don't have the quote in front of me, he 1452 01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,920 says he wants the wrong He wants or the world 1453 01:07:01,519 --> 01:07:04,840 to be one where anyone is able to claim there's destiny. 1454 01:07:05,159 --> 01:07:07,719 That's one thing he wants to flight for. Like I 1455 01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:09,320 don't know if he really means that or if he's 1456 01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,400 just like saying that, because that sounds like something a 1457 01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:16,320 king would say, but like I guess he's saying that, 1458 01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,519 but like I don't really know like what that's opposed to, 1459 01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:21,840 like what what is it currently at Rome, because it 1460 01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:24,199 kind of seems like anyone can kind of just claim 1461 01:07:24,239 --> 01:07:26,800 their destiny if they just killed the right people. So anyway, 1462 01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,880 I don't know what he felt like would have changed 1463 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,599 under his rule in his new ideology, and maybe we 1464 01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:34,360 just need to see more of that, or if he 1465 01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:36,400 actually did become the emperor, we have got more of that. 1466 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:38,960 But I didn't I didn't really know what he actually 1467 01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,360 wanted to change about Rome. That was one question mark 1468 01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:41,719 I had. 1469 01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what he wanted to change either. 1470 01:07:46,199 --> 01:07:48,639 I mean, sixteen years, it's all it takes, and then 1471 01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:53,679 it's change as someone else's changed, and it's just it's 1472 01:07:53,719 --> 01:07:55,880 not great. So I don't know what he was thinking 1473 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:58,079 he was going to be instilling. I guess just more 1474 01:07:58,119 --> 01:08:02,320 control for the people. And I'm just assuming because we 1475 01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,480 me not knowing what his change was. All I can 1476 01:08:05,519 --> 01:08:09,119 take with that is Okay, they're implying that his change 1477 01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:11,679 is what Maximus wanted to do, and they're just reviving 1478 01:08:11,719 --> 01:08:16,399 what Maximus and Marcus Aurelius's original plan was, right, Like, Okay, 1479 01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,079 a senate that's speaking for the people. 1480 01:08:20,039 --> 01:08:25,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess I just mentioned character. Robbie there 1481 01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:28,600 very minor character in this movie, but I loved him. 1482 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:30,520 That's like one of my favorite characters. Do you for 1483 01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,680 what he was? It's just someone I want to root for. 1484 01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,720 I loved his look right because he was at like 1485 01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:37,159 the makeup he had, like the scars on his face 1486 01:08:37,159 --> 01:08:39,039 that he had stitched over in a really cool way. 1487 01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:41,119 He was just a nice guy. He just you know, 1488 01:08:41,199 --> 01:08:43,399 he was trying to save lives. He's like, more people 1489 01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,479 die because of the wounds than than like in the 1490 01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,800 in the arena themselves, and I just I thought he 1491 01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,239 was someone that was really easy to root for and 1492 01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:53,479 cheer for. And that was another character well that I 1493 01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:55,640 was kind of chuckling about, just the comparison to the 1494 01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:57,880 first movie, where I forget when that guy in the 1495 01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,720 first movie comes along, but the guy who's kind of 1496 01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,439 the mess singer who can like pass the message along 1497 01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,119 to Maximus's army, and he like, remember, he like sneaks 1498 01:09:07,159 --> 01:09:10,359 in when when the Lucilla's like on that she's I 1499 01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:12,479 don't know, on that thrown thing walking through the town, 1500 01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,439 and he sneaks in and like has a quick conversation 1501 01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:16,439 with her and she gives him some coins. Whoever, that 1502 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,319 guy was like the guy in the ear kind of 1503 01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:21,479 spitting these messages along. I love that Robbie kind of 1504 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:23,199 gets that same role where he gets thrown on a 1505 01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:25,840 horse and has to deliver this like very important message 1506 01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:28,439 and he has that trust obviously he gives him that ring, 1507 01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,960 which is a very very important ring. So yeah, I 1508 01:09:31,039 --> 01:09:33,079 liked I liked Robbie as a character who's one. 1509 01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I liked him too. I liked how he just 1510 01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,279 kept popping in. He was the on site medic he 1511 01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:42,159 gave me. This is a weird kind of comparison, but 1512 01:09:42,199 --> 01:09:48,720 he gave me. I can't remember what his name was, 1513 01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,880 except for that he was the Megi and the Mummy. 1514 01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:56,960 It's a very deep pole, but he he just reminds 1515 01:09:57,039 --> 01:10:00,239 me of that character and the way he's just yeah, 1516 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,600 just like how he's just like he's the underdog hero 1517 01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:04,279 and I really really like that he kind of like 1518 01:10:04,319 --> 01:10:07,039 saves the day and yeah, so he was. He was 1519 01:10:07,079 --> 01:10:09,000 a cool character. I like him in this movie. 1520 01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:14,840 Speaker 2: Another question for you is near the so once once 1521 01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:20,000 uh Lucy's is captured after the war, we go, you know, 1522 01:10:20,039 --> 01:10:23,319 the boats arrive on I forget the name that it's 1523 01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:27,439 like Port Patio or Port Portia, Porta, something like that, 1524 01:10:27,319 --> 01:10:29,560 the town that's on the on the coast. Obviously they 1525 01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,439 arrived there, and then there's that's where that first battle happens, 1526 01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:34,279 with that arena. But I was also I was a 1527 01:10:34,279 --> 01:10:37,199 little confused with the order of events because we have 1528 01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:40,319 like it seemed like they arrived in Rome and then 1529 01:10:40,359 --> 01:10:42,039 went to this town. But I guess they just arrived 1530 01:10:42,039 --> 01:10:44,479 in this town. What I'm curious about is like they 1531 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,760 have this sequence early on in the movie where Lucius 1532 01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,640 after he does that first battle and Macronus picks him out, 1533 01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,399 he has that battle against like the guy who never 1534 01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,439 loses once again, very similar character to like Titus or Titan, 1535 01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:57,720 whatever that guy's name was in the first movie. Then 1536 01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,720 they do that battle like inside in front of the 1537 01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:04,520 two emperors, but like that wasn't in the city of Rome. 1538 01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,079 That was still like in that coastal city. Because then 1539 01:11:07,119 --> 01:11:09,960 like after that, we have the scene of them all 1540 01:11:10,079 --> 01:11:13,840 arriving to Rome and they're all like commenting on like, oh, 1541 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,279 they don't tell you about the smells, and like the 1542 01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:18,680 people are just starving and dying out in the fields 1543 01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,720 and they're arriving to Rome. But I'm like, would the emperors, 1544 01:11:22,119 --> 01:11:24,920 why would they go to this town just to like 1545 01:11:25,039 --> 01:11:27,840 watch this tiny little battle between two people in a hall. 1546 01:11:28,079 --> 01:11:29,880 I just didn't get why those characters were there. The 1547 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,399 pacing of that scene seemed a little off to me. 1548 01:11:34,279 --> 01:11:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, the emperors being there confuses me. Now, the port 1549 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,640 city that was the port city of Rome, so it 1550 01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:46,079 was close, but the order of events is a little convoluted, 1551 01:11:46,119 --> 01:11:50,359 and I still don't I don't understand why the emperors 1552 01:11:50,399 --> 01:11:52,000 would have been there. It looked like it was just 1553 01:11:52,039 --> 01:11:55,239 a big party that the the guy that one senator 1554 01:11:55,319 --> 01:11:55,800 was throwing. 1555 01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:58,600 Speaker 2: You would have think they would have gone to the 1556 01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,800 arena that day and like watch the battle because they 1557 01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,359 love that stuff. But maybe that again is small for them, 1558 01:12:03,399 --> 01:12:03,960 you know, but I. 1559 01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:08,760 Speaker 1: Don't know if well, yeah, because I guess the bamboo sorry, 1560 01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:13,439 the baboon battle that I think already happened. Yes, that 1561 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:17,960 already happened because Macronus bought him. And so then they 1562 01:12:18,239 --> 01:12:21,199 arrived at the port city of Rome, and then this 1563 01:12:21,359 --> 01:12:23,479 was again it was supposed to be just like knuckles, right, 1564 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,279 like just fists and fists kind of a fight, and 1565 01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:30,039 it wasn't supposed to be like full gladiatorial swords. Yeah, 1566 01:12:30,159 --> 01:12:34,000 and for is just going fucking berserk for swords. So 1567 01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,039 that unfolded and then yeah, then after that then you 1568 01:12:37,079 --> 01:12:39,479 get the actual like arena battles, the rhino and stuff 1569 01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:42,039 like that. So it is a little bit murky and convoluted, 1570 01:12:42,079 --> 01:12:45,159 but I for me, it does kind of there's a pathway. 1571 01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:46,159 There's a pathway through. 1572 01:12:47,239 --> 01:12:47,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1573 01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 1: Oh. 1574 01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,720 Speaker 2: One thing I forgot about Macronus is, uh, he has 1575 01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,840 that scene where he's in like Lucilla where Lucilla is 1576 01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:56,159 locked up at this point and he's in the chamber 1577 01:12:56,279 --> 01:12:58,560 having a conversation with her, and I thought it was 1578 01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,359 really purposeful that he, like, at that point, he's really 1579 01:13:01,399 --> 01:13:04,119 confident and he eats a couple of grapes and like 1580 01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:06,039 we commpeded in like the first moybe like commedy like 1581 01:13:06,079 --> 01:13:09,279 eating the grapes, Like that's a very like emperor thing 1582 01:13:09,319 --> 01:13:11,079 to do, just be fed the grapes, right, And so 1583 01:13:11,119 --> 01:13:12,520 I thought it was I thought it was very purposeful 1584 01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:13,840 that he's like eating a couple of grapes in that 1585 01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,239 scene before he pops out. So I just quick mention there. 1586 01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,279 I think my only last thoughts are like just things 1587 01:13:18,319 --> 01:13:20,479 with like the very very endiing. Do you have anything else, 1588 01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:22,399 like other than Indian stuff that we haven't talked about 1589 01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:23,840 or character I think we've talked about most of the 1590 01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:24,680 characters at this point. 1591 01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:29,079 Speaker 1: No, I don't have anything, but I will highlight Tyler's 1592 01:13:29,079 --> 01:13:31,920 comment in the chat. I think lavender was because Maximus 1593 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,680 had fields of lavender, which jogs a memory. I'm pretty 1594 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:37,399 sure he did grow lavender, and he talked about how 1595 01:13:37,399 --> 01:13:41,079 the smell of it reminded him of home. I think Tyler, 1596 01:13:41,119 --> 01:13:44,520 I think You're spot on with that, so that makes sense. 1597 01:13:44,359 --> 01:13:47,479 Speaker 2: Always spot on. 1598 01:13:47,800 --> 01:13:52,399 Speaker 1: So there you go, lead us into your your last 1599 01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:53,039 note here. 1600 01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, just a couple, I mean one like kind of 1601 01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:02,039 really leaning into the material of the first movie going 1602 01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:04,319 down to that. I don't know you'd call it a 1603 01:14:04,359 --> 01:14:07,439 tomb I guess getting Maximus's arm or getting his sword, 1604 01:14:08,159 --> 01:14:11,119 all of that was a little on the nose, but like, okay, 1605 01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:13,359 it's his son at this point, that's kind of confirmed, 1606 01:14:13,399 --> 01:14:15,600 so I think it makes sense, and like that that 1607 01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,960 armor is very symbolic clearly, Like obviously even the first 1608 01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,439 movie is like this is what this means, is what 1609 01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:23,760 that means? And he explains that too Lucius in that moment, 1610 01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:25,359 so to where that armor I'm sure is a big 1611 01:14:25,359 --> 01:14:27,520 moment for him. So all that cool. I was fine 1612 01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:32,239 with it. To two things. So Lucilla, did she die 1613 01:14:32,399 --> 01:14:35,960 for anything? You know, did any did anything come of 1614 01:14:36,039 --> 01:14:38,399 her death? Did that change anything? I kind of feel 1615 01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:40,319 like she just went out with a bit of a 1616 01:14:40,319 --> 01:14:42,279 fizzle because that there was so much chaos happening at 1617 01:14:42,319 --> 01:14:44,720 that point that I don't think anyone even really noticed 1618 01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,319 that she died other than Lucius. And I'm sure when 1619 01:14:47,359 --> 01:14:49,479 they're picking up the pieces later, But it's also hard 1620 01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:51,680 to tell, like what the people of Rome feel about her. 1621 01:14:52,079 --> 01:14:54,039 I don't know if they love her at that point 1622 01:14:54,279 --> 01:14:57,079 just from Marcus Aurelius, and if they still have admiration 1623 01:14:57,159 --> 01:14:59,199 for her. But I kind of feel like she didn't 1624 01:14:59,239 --> 01:15:01,800 die any for anything in the way that Maximus, well, 1625 01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,520 Maximus in the first movie he died for something, and 1626 01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,279 then obviously in the crawl it's kind of overwritten. But 1627 01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:09,520 I don't know, do you feel like she died for anything? 1628 01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,560 Speaker 1: Uh, not necessarily. I feel like, again, the people, the 1629 01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:17,000 people of this room are very easily persuaded because they're 1630 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,199 they're shown up there to watch people get killed, and 1631 01:15:20,279 --> 01:15:23,319 in this case it's Lucilla who's there like strolled out 1632 01:15:23,319 --> 01:15:25,279 there to get killed, and the people are being told, 1633 01:15:25,319 --> 01:15:28,159 okay that she was going to overthrow the crown, like 1634 01:15:28,199 --> 01:15:30,239 that she was a bad chick, she's a trader, she's 1635 01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:34,560 a rebel along with all these other senators. So yeah, 1636 01:15:34,199 --> 01:15:37,239 I don't know. And again we're supposed to root for 1637 01:15:37,319 --> 01:15:39,520 Rome and it's people, but it's hard to know exactly 1638 01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:43,680 what like the Rome and the people here are thinking 1639 01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:48,640 because they retaliate after one of the archers shoots one 1640 01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:51,600 of their own, they didn't retaliate before, and well they 1641 01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:58,079 were definitely obviously being disagreeable with how things were going. Yeah, 1642 01:15:58,079 --> 01:16:02,079 it's still very convoluted on on them and just kind 1643 01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:03,880 of like how they fit into it. So I don't 1644 01:16:04,199 --> 01:16:06,079 I don't know. Maybe she's a martyr, Maybe that's the 1645 01:16:06,079 --> 01:16:08,039 only takeaway I can see with this, But again, that 1646 01:16:08,119 --> 01:16:11,840 happened after the fact, and I think at its course, 1647 01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:17,600 she probably only serves as a chest piece for Lucius 1648 01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,880 and Lucius's journey because it puts the target on Macronus 1649 01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:25,239 and Macrianus shoots her and basically like Locke's eyes with Lucius, 1650 01:16:25,239 --> 01:16:28,039 and Lucius just like charges after him on horseback and 1651 01:16:28,279 --> 01:16:29,680 then executes him. 1652 01:16:30,079 --> 01:16:32,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another thing I wondered, is like, I don't 1653 01:16:32,319 --> 01:16:38,239 really know if anyone other than Lucius and Lucilla know 1654 01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:41,119 that Macronus took that shot, because there was that was 1655 01:16:41,319 --> 01:16:44,399 like the riots had already erupted that point, and I 1656 01:16:44,399 --> 01:16:46,600 feel like what Macronus was going to do, He's like, ah, shit, 1657 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,239 this is not only the way I wanted to but 1658 01:16:48,279 --> 01:16:50,119 I'm just gonna take this shot. I can blame the 1659 01:16:50,119 --> 01:16:51,800 emperor for it, and I can say that's why I 1660 01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,640 killed the emperor because he took that shot, right. I 1661 01:16:54,680 --> 01:16:56,640 guess I don't know if maybe that maybe that would 1662 01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,199 have been his reasoning, So yeah, I don't I kind 1663 01:16:59,199 --> 01:17:01,479 of feel like Macronis was expecting that no one was 1664 01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,560 gonna know that he was the one that fired that 1665 01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,000 arrow at the end. Yeah, and then yeah, how did 1666 01:17:08,039 --> 01:17:10,039 you feel about like the just the very last shot 1667 01:17:10,159 --> 01:17:13,000 of him saying, talk to me father, and then like 1668 01:17:13,039 --> 01:17:15,600 that's when we faded black? What do you think about 1669 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,600 that line of dialogue in that choice? 1670 01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,560 Speaker 1: I first split second thought, are we gonna see Russell 1671 01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:25,520 Crowe just walking here like for I mean we did. 1672 01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:28,279 We saw Russell Crows like walking with his hand, yes, 1673 01:17:28,399 --> 01:17:30,600 in the in the in the grass the wheat field. 1674 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,119 But I thought we were actually gonna see him like 1675 01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:35,600 appear in the coliseum like my son, you must lead 1676 01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,680 Rome now or some crazy shit like that, Like anything 1677 01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:39,800 could happen at this point. 1678 01:17:40,199 --> 01:17:44,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad that they didn't do that cheesy fully cheat. 1679 01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:45,880 I think it was a little cheesy, but it could 1680 01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,359 have been way cheesier if he actually did say something. 1681 01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,319 I think he was more asking for a symbolic talk 1682 01:17:51,359 --> 01:17:53,560 to me, you know, a little ruffle in the wind 1683 01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:58,239 something like that. Yeah, I think that's all of my notes. 1684 01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:02,800 Speaker 1: Taylor Field perfect. Uh, well what do you What do 1685 01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,720 you got for your closing thoughts here and rating? If 1686 01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:06,239 you got one? 1687 01:18:07,119 --> 01:18:12,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I I think I'm less mixed on this movie 1688 01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,600 after the review, more just like kind of negative on 1689 01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:17,399 it a little bit. I'm still feel like I'm still 1690 01:18:17,399 --> 01:18:19,159 gonna give it a decent number just because it was 1691 01:18:19,159 --> 01:18:22,479 a fun time at the movies. It was still a 1692 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:24,399 fun watch, I suppose. But I feel like the more 1693 01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:26,960 I break down some of these things, the more issues 1694 01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,239 I tend to have a little bit. So I think 1695 01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:36,600 I'm gonna give this a six and six point five, 1696 01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,000 maybe six point we'll get a six point four. That'll 1697 01:18:41,039 --> 01:18:43,279 be my number at the end of the day. Uh, 1698 01:18:43,279 --> 01:18:44,760 this is this is a very fun review tailer. I 1699 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,039 feel like we covered a lot of ground here. It 1700 01:18:47,119 --> 01:18:49,840 was very heated. Uh this is a fun one. 1701 01:18:50,359 --> 01:18:53,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I agree, it was. This is juicy. Oh 1702 01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:56,479 I you know, when I got home, Madison was like, 1703 01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,239 how was it? Did you enjoy it? I was like, yeah, 1704 01:18:58,279 --> 01:19:01,279 I enjoyed it. This that that, But I told her 1705 01:19:01,279 --> 01:19:03,159 my number rating right away. And I think I'm gonna 1706 01:19:03,159 --> 01:19:05,039 stick with that. I wasn't sure if it would change 1707 01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,279 after kind of getting through this conversation and this review, 1708 01:19:08,359 --> 01:19:11,880 but I think it's still pretty pretty solid at a 1709 01:19:12,039 --> 01:19:16,159 seven out of ten. I am positive on it because 1710 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:18,600 I think the action was great. There are lots of 1711 01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:23,199 cool sequences, and a lot of the actors delivered greatly. 1712 01:19:23,239 --> 01:19:26,159 I think it was fantastic, But I think at its core, 1713 01:19:26,479 --> 01:19:31,079 some of the writing and some of the some of 1714 01:19:31,119 --> 01:19:35,960 the trajectories of their character's developments was a little bit off, 1715 01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:41,399 and some things in retrospect damaging the first films narrative. 1716 01:19:42,159 --> 01:19:44,439 It really just kind of like sets me back a 1717 01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:47,079 little bit, and it's unfortunate. I don't like that. I 1718 01:19:47,119 --> 01:19:52,600 wish that this was kind of more more like homage 1719 01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:54,920 to that first one and like building off that first 1720 01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:57,680 one instead of kind of like retroactively destroying it in 1721 01:19:58,159 --> 01:20:00,920 slight regards, But again that's just my into each the zone. 1722 01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,119 I'm sure if you love this movie, then I'm happy 1723 01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:05,079 for you, because you know, there's lots to love with 1724 01:20:05,159 --> 01:20:07,319 this movie. There really really is, and it's it's it's 1725 01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:09,680 it's an awesome film. I definitely do want to rewatch 1726 01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:11,960 it because I think there's a yeah, there's lots of 1727 01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,600 good things to pull from this, so yeah, that that 1728 01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,840 is it. So we did it, We came, we conquered 1729 01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:20,560 the coliseum, and we'll be back for Glad eight or 1730 01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:21,520 three if they ever do it. 1731 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. I will definitely be back. I I 1732 01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:28,680 think these are very fun movies that, yeah, have a 1733 01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,720 lot more depth than I thought they would before. Ever 1734 01:20:32,279 --> 01:20:33,159 haven't seen them. 1735 01:20:33,399 --> 01:20:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. All right, Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you 1736 01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,920 for tuning into this episode of Keeper's Podcast. We will 1737 01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:42,279 be back next time and we will see you in 1738 01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,800 the search bar. Have a good one, see you