WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.799 This podcast is intended for mature audiences. 2 00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:05.759 Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:21.719 Last spring, I wrote a letter to Kelly Wilson's mom, Kathy. 4 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:26.399 The thirtieth anniversary of Kelly's disappearance from Gilmer, Texas had 5 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.519 just passed that January. I introduced myself and asked if 6 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:33.880 we could meet. A few weeks later, my phone rang 7 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:38.200 an anonymous call. When I picked up, I instantly recognized 8 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.000 Cathy's voice. She has a Southern accent. It's kind of twangy. 9 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:45.000 She was polite, but she didn't have much to say. 10 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:48.560 To my disappointment, Kathy declined to meet for an interview. 11 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:52.000 She said she had good reason not to talk. There 12 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.560 were new developments in the search for her daughter, Kelly. 13 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.679 Kathy didn't want to do anything to compromise the case. 14 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.039 I had also written a letter to Kelly's dad, Robbie. 15 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:06.640 Unlike his ex wife, Robbie was happy to meet. 16 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:13.920 Hey, mister Wilson. Yes, Hey, I'm west Ferguson. 17 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:14.879 Oh we have a couple weeks. 18 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:16.280 Yes, sir, very nice to meet you. 19 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:17.079 Good to meet you. 20 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:20.920 Robbie looked really good for seventy years old. He spent 21 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.680 decades working in management at paper Mills. We're retired now. 22 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:27.680 He wears a tidy gray beard and stays fit on 23 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:29.799 the golf course. And he lives in a lake house 24 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.400 in Nakadish, the small town in Louisiana where Kelly grew 25 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.120 up before she moved to East Texas as a teenager. 26 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:41.599 Beautiful home. Yeah, yeah, from Texas right. 27 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:41.920 You know. 28 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:44.640 It was clear most of the way, and then past 29 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:50.480 twenty minutes or so started coming down, all right, ah, 30 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:51.319 right on the water. 31 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.799 The view from the lake through Robbie's back window was stunning. 32 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.560 Sheets of rain swept across the water, rippling the surface. 33 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:03.640 We set down in the living room. Although Robbie's second wife, Waverlin, 34 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:06.560 died in twenty twenty, you could still feel a woman's 35 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:10.080 presence in all the furniture and home decor. I explained 36 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:12.439 to Robbie why I was so interested in Kelly's case, 37 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.360 that I was twelve years old when she vanished, that 38 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:18.400 my first newspaper editor had given me the idea that 39 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:23.639 maybe I could help find Kelly. I had always, you know, 40 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:26.960 wanted to come back to the story because you know, 41 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:29.759 a lot of it just didn't really make sense. 42 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:32.599 It's a long sworded twisted boots and just went on 43 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:35.280 with the story that propersed you. Now it's a nice 44 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.439 cold case. Now there's a lot of there's a lot 45 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:40.960 of questions. There's more questions than answers to this thing. 46 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:42.680 For sure. 47 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:48.560 I'm not a father yet, and I can't imagine what 48 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:49.159 that's like. 49 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:52.680 Yeah, it's not it's not easy, and you don't you know, 50 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:54.400 I don't know how you deal with it other than 51 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:54.879 the fact that. 52 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:56.319 You just wake up every day to live. 53 00:02:57.879 --> 00:02:58.039 You know. 54 00:02:58.120 --> 00:02:59.719 You get to the day and you wake up the 55 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.360 next day and you do it again, you know, and 56 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:06.120 it gets easier, but it never goes away. 57 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.520 I asked Robbie to tell me what he remembered about 58 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.199 Kelly when she still lived with him in Louisiana. 59 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:13.039 Did she have. 60 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.240 Hobbies, pastimes? You know what he's telling me? More about 61 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:18.520 her personality? 62 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:19.599 She I mean, she. 63 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.599 Had schoogle activities, you know, I think she was she 64 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:25.240 might have been in what do you call it? And 65 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.000 she not the cheerleaders, but the pep squad and all 66 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:33.759 that kind of thing in school. Had pretty typical young 67 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:37.360 lady type activities. She kind of liked myth a little bit. 68 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:37.560 You know. 69 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.120 Some of the sciences. She was small enough she could 70 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:41.240 have done whatever she wanted. 71 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:44.199 But Kelly was also headstrong. We got into that in 72 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.240 the first episode, how Kelly bucked against the rules of 73 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:50.520 Robbie's house. He was a single dad doing his best, 74 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:52.960 and he says his daughter was more than a handful. 75 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:55.759 I grew up with two brothers. 76 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:57.639 I didn't have any idea what to do with with 77 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:58.840 a teenage daughter. 78 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:04.919 Actually one that was, you know, pretty attractive, very outgoing. 79 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.879 I mean, she was a handful from the time she 80 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:12.000 was and Kelly matured way way. It is almost unfair 81 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.840 she I mean she retured from like she was eleven 82 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.439 and a half years old, and until she turned fifteen 83 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:20.839 or sixteen, she didn't actually had a brain in her head. 84 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:23.199 And I guess the homeowners were just raging, you know, 85 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.279 a couple with the fact that her parents split up 86 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.199 and her mother was steadily just agitating the situation to 87 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:30.720 get at. 88 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:31.399 Me, Frankie. 89 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:33.800 Her mother and I both grew up in a little 90 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:36.759 town called Plain Dealing. I don't know if you've contacted 91 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:39.279 her mother or I talked to her yesterday. 92 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:41.079 I don't even know where she I guess she's still 93 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:41.800 in Plaine DeLand. 94 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:42.240 I don't know. 95 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:45.800 Plain Dealing is a tiny town in northwestern Louisiana. 96 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.519 Just out of curiosity, she'd whe her to talk to you. 97 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:52.959 She said, no, that's a surprise. 98 00:04:53.879 --> 00:04:57.639 Robbie and Kelly's mom, Kathy, are estranged. They haven't spoken 99 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.920 since nineteen ninety four. Of that is due to their 100 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:03.759 ugly divorce and custody battle for Kelly and her little 101 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:08.639 brother Kyle, but also Robbie has leveled serious accusations against Kathy, 102 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:12.120 wondering if she knows more about her daughter's disappearance than 103 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:12.759 she's letting on. 104 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:16.160 What do you think is the most plausible thing that happened? 105 00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.160 You know, I still go back to the family. 106 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:21.920 I mean, if you look at if you look at 107 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.360 these kinds of things statistically, that's where it's almost always 108 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:29.399 is now what happened and how it happened. I couldn't 109 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:34.040 I mean, you couldn't you let your imagination run wild. 110 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.199 Remember, Kelly's stepdad, Robert Carlson, was the first person to 111 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.240 find her eighty five Dodge Charger beside the video store 112 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.560 on the morning after she vanished. According to the first 113 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.959 news reports about Kelly's case, Robert told police he went 114 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.959 out looking for Kelly at five am. Later, he would 115 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:54.360 say he actually went searching two hours earlier, at three 116 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.920 in the morning. Either way, the car was unlocked when 117 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:01.399 he found it, a tire was slashed, and Kelly's purse 118 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:02.959 was inside the vehicle. 119 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.959 First of all, you rely on the fact that her 120 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:08.600 purse was in the car strictly on what he says. 121 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.879 You know, her stepdad says, right, You really don't know 122 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:15.199 other than what he's telling you. Is that true or 123 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.399 not true? Just depends on whether it has any reason 124 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:19.439 alive why I was even out looking for at three 125 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.720 am on this particular not any of the others she 126 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.120 I mean, obviously out of his true you know, being 127 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:26.800 out and party. 128 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:31.120 And don't forget Kelly's tire had also been slashed outside 129 00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:34.839 the video store just two nights before she disappeared to 130 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.759 get her right home that time on Friday. I've been 131 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:40.160 told that Kelly called her stepdad to come pick her up. 132 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.920 I have also heard that Kelly simply drove home on 133 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.920 the flat tire on Sunday night when Kelly vanished. Practically 134 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.399 every news report has repeated the detail that store manager 135 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.720 Joe Henry was the last person to see her. But 136 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.839 I found one report, just one that told a different story. 137 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.839 It claimed the skateboarders who were on the town square 138 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.120 that night watched Kelly go back inside the video store 139 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:08.399 after her tire was slashed. The skater supposedly watched Kelly 140 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.519 make a phone call. Who did Kelly call her stepdad 141 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:20.759 or someone else? From Imperative Entertainment, I'm Wes Ferguson. This 142 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:37.439 is Deviltown. This is Chapter eight Older Men. Over the years, 143 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:41.439 Robbie Wilson has often questioned whether his ex wife, Kathy Carlson, 144 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:45.360 had anything to do with Kelly's disappearance. One of Robbie's 145 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:47.839 theories that he shared with law enforcement back in the 146 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:51.800 nineties is that somehow Kelly found out her brother Kyle's 147 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:54.959 blood type proved that he was not actually Robbie's son. 148 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:58.920 Here's a direct quote from an investigator's report, which is 149 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:03.000 publicly available from the Attorney General's office. Kelly was going 150 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:05.800 to tell this to Robbie, and this may have been 151 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:09.519 a motive. If Kathy Carlson had a hand in Kelly's demise, 152 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:13.279 This seems really far fetched to me. Robert and Kathy 153 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:18.240 Carlson have always adamantly denied involvement in Kelly's disappearance. And remember, 154 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:21.199 Kelly's purse was in the car. If her stepdad had 155 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.839 given her a ride home, she wouldn't have left her 156 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.800 purse behind. Then again, we only have the stepdad's word 157 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:28.519 about the purse. 158 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:33.519 You know the issue was a perseh you know, been 159 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.559 in a car or was it in a car? Who knows. 160 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.080 Another wrinkle in the case involves the key to Kelly's 161 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.000 Dodge charger. When Kelly's stepdad, Robert, discovered her car beside 162 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:47.200 the video store early Monday morning, that key was nowhere 163 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.320 to be found. Just days after Kelly's disappearance, the same 164 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:55.600 key mysteriously appeared in their yard like someone who knew 165 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:59.240 where Kelly lived drove by, tossed the key out the window, 166 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.480 and drove away. This rumor has been swirling around Gilmer 167 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:06.639 for decades, and I've been able to confirm it. This 168 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:10.600 is what Kelly's mom and stepdad say happened. Kelly's dad, 169 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.279 on the other hand, Robbie questions whether they're telling the truth. 170 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:17.200 He wonders if Kelly got a ride home that night, 171 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:21.120 just like she did two nights earlier, something happened and 172 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:25.000 Kelly died. Robbie's theory is that her mom and stepdad 173 00:09:25.039 --> 00:09:27.240 made up the story of finding her purse in the 174 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:30.759 unlocked car and the key in the yard to cover 175 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:35.519 up something else, something worse. Again, this is all conjecture 176 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.399 on Robbie's part. Robbie also claims that Cathy was already 177 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.799 talking about funeral arrangements on the first morning Kelly didn't 178 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:45.919 come home. Kelly had barely been missing at that point, 179 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:49.200 no one knew anything. Robbie says it didn't sit well 180 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:52.639 with him. Kathy's reaction to her missing daughter left other 181 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:54.919 people in Gilmer scratching their heads as well. 182 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:00.440 Anyway, her mom came in for a long time d 183 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:01.639 asked man long about her mom. 184 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:04.720 That was Joe Henry, who worked with Kelly and was 185 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:07.320 the last person to talk to her at the video store. 186 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.039 Here's local news reporter Philip Williams. 187 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.360 The one thing about her mother that seems strange to 188 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.399 me was Kathy. You would think the average mother of 189 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.120 a teenage girl who very likely has been murdered would 190 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:25.360 be boo who, boo who. When I would talk to 191 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:29.399 Kathy Carlson, her mindset seemed to be anger that the 192 00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:32.840 cops hadn't gotten anything done. I never saw her show 193 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:38.399 any grief. Now, different people handled grief differently, but you know, 194 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:40.440 it just seems strange to me. The times that I 195 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:42.759 talked to and it was a number of times that 196 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:46.360 I never saw her sheditated, choke up, or anything like that, 197 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:48.639 and that seemed odd. 198 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:53.000 The detective leading the search for Kelly, Sergeant James York Brown, 199 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:56.759 said Kathy even tried to shut down his investigation. 200 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.919 Orse winner and became one Kitty's clue. That's when it's 201 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:03.759 really sent up red flags. 202 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.120 Did she say why she wanted the case closed? 203 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:08.399 She was tired of it all. 204 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:14.000 That's not a good reason. And I said that won't happen. 205 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.080 Could we find her and bring her home? 206 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:21.399 It was strange, but, like Philip Williams pointed out, everyone 207 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.080 handles grief in their own way. Beyond these idle suspicions, 208 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:27.759 I have not found a lick of evidence linking Kathy 209 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:39.200 to the crime. Let's get back to Robbie's house in Louisiana. 210 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.759 He and I had been talking for about half an 211 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:44.120 hour when he offered to play a taping of an 212 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:47.480 old news special about Kelly's case. I was carrying my 213 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:51.159 stuff into Robbie's bedroom, whereas TV is when he brought 214 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:53.759 up Kathy again, let's go in here. 215 00:11:53.639 --> 00:11:56.799 With the big team. Okay, she declined to speak with you. 216 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:02.440 Huh, well she said that, but she uh big Old 217 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:07.320 TV said that there's she has engaged with some new 218 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:11.080 investigator and didn't want to compromise it. 219 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:11.440 Right. 220 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:15.320 I won't call BS on that. I talked to Kathy, 221 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:17.120 she declined. 222 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.200 And you're the first person that I've actually met with. 223 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:27.559 It doesn't surprise me. She didn't want to. I can't answer. Yeah, well, 224 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.360 and I can't answer. I can't tell you all that, 225 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:32.080 you know, I'm like I said, I won't I'm won't 226 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:33.120 call BS on it. 227 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.000 She got somebody investigating. 228 00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.720 After my interview with Robbie ended and I talked to 229 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:42.559 a few more people, I wanted to let Kathy know 230 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:45.559 that he and others were tossing around all these allegations 231 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.720 against her. If nothing else, Kathy should have a chance 232 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.279 to defend herself. I couldn't find a phone number, so 233 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.080 I wrote another letter. Three days later, I got a 234 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:00.080 call from a number I didn't recognize. 235 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.799 Hello, Wes, this is Amanda Gamble. I'm a private investigator. 236 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:08.879 That is investigating Kelly Wilson's case. Ms Kathy has received 237 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:10.960 another letter from you. If you could give me a 238 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.000 call back, I would sure appreciate it. Thank you. 239 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:19.039 Huh So there really was a private investigator, someone named 240 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:21.720 Amanda Gamble. I called her back. 241 00:13:23.320 --> 00:13:27.600 I just wanted to talk to you briefly about Chilley's case. 242 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.759 I know more than likely and you can tell me 243 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:33.840 if I'm wrong that the narrative that you're going to 244 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.440 go with is what's been published at this point. Correct. 245 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.279 Well, no, ma'am. 246 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:44.279 I'm trying to interview everyone I can to create a 247 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:48.000 new narrative that's as complete and accurate as possible. 248 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:55.559 What I can tell you is that we are very 249 00:13:55.720 --> 00:14:00.720 deep into the investigation of this case, to the point 250 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:05.679 to where shortly we'll be turning everything over to the FBI. 251 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:11.159 We've had to reinvestigate the case as if it's never 252 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:19.080 been investigated, and it could be a huge detriment to 253 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.799 the case at this point if we give any information 254 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:31.200 not already published and out in public record. We have 255 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:36.159 found new evidence and it has taken us in a 256 00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:41.399 completely different direction, and so we would really like to 257 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:47.039 thoroughly investigate this case for justice for Kelly and to 258 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:51.799 hopefully locate her body. And I feel that if we 259 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.440 if we released any information at this time, that's going 260 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:02.279 to jeopardize that. Okay, well, I completely understand that, and 261 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.519 I would not want to want one would not want 262 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:06.679 to jeopardize that either. 263 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:09.600 What's your Do you. 264 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.879 Have any any timeline for when you think you'll be 265 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.639 ready to give that to the DA's office. 266 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:18.919 We're not going to the DA's office. We're going to 267 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:28.240 go straight to THEB So I would say probably three 268 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.240 to six months at the at the most, honestly, and 269 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.440 I'll tell you this, the the truth is going to 270 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.759 be stranger within the fiction. What's been printed at this 271 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:44.639 point is just fiction. You know. I've talked to Mss 272 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:49.679 Cathy and and you know, she's just been through a 273 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:54.440 lot as far as media goes. They kind of put 274 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:56.840 her through the wringer for you know, thirty years ago. 275 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.919 More than anything, it was you know, hugely published, Kelly's 276 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.600 case was, but it just wasn't ever investigated. And you know, 277 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:07.159 thirty years later, she still doesn't have her daughter till 278 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.399 later rest. And that's our main objective is to get 279 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.279 justice and find Kelly. We're in a very pivotal point 280 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:20.039 of the investigation right now. The tithes of tongues. Anything 281 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.879 that we say at this point that is released in 282 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:25.399 any way, shake, fashion, or form, could jeopardize the case. 283 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:31.039 And I just don't want that to happen. Understood completely, 284 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.720 And I'll tell you now, the one thing with Mss 285 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:39.039 Cathy is you know her trust and her you know, 286 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:43.200 she has lost a lot of faith and a lot 287 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:45.440 of people, and a lot of trust and a lot 288 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.879 of people, and you know, building that rapport with her 289 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:52.960 is what is most important because she is a very 290 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:57.519 very gentle and good hearted lady and a mother that 291 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:02.679 can't greet, that has more that cannot greet. Like I said, 292 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:07.079 we have gathered new evidence and there are things that 293 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:14.839 did come up thirty years ago that they never ever released, 294 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.839 that they never further investigated. They swept it completely under 295 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:24.599 the rugs and they went with their narrative. That narrative. 296 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.359 You can see where that went. It went absolutely nowhere 297 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.799 and was thrown out of port. You know, all of 298 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.519 the Satanic panic was just a smoke. Strange, that's all 299 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:36.920 that was. I'm just letting you know the truth is 300 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.960 stranger than the fiction. But I think you will, you know, 301 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.039 if you enjoy telling the truth and you enjoy getting 302 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.599 the truth out there, I think that you will really 303 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:55.960 appreciate the story. But at this point, I'm still completely 304 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:02.440 covertly investigating it. And if we let anything out in 305 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:06.319 any way, that's gonna blow my cover, and that could 306 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.200 also hurt and harm people. I mean it really could. 307 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.599 It could put people's lives in danger, and we don't 308 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.160 want that. We don't want that at all. 309 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.599 I found out from Amanda that she and I are 310 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:24.480 basically the same age. She grew up in a little 311 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.799 town near Gilmer, and like me, had always wondered what 312 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:32.480 happened to Kelly. So when Amanda got her private investigator's license, 313 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.640 she offered to work for Kathy pro bono. Amanda had 314 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.839 only been on the case three months, and she'd already 315 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:41.039 found so much. 316 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.839 I'm kind of locked up. Fright train is the way 317 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.839 I would describe myself. Once I get started on something, 318 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.160 and once I start finding leads and once I start 319 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.000 finding truth, I barrel through and I don't stop it. 320 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:57.279 I'm trying to not let the stone in turn. And 321 00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:59.680 if you'll just kind of hang on with us and 322 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:02.759 how hold out, I could let you know, Hey, this 323 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:08.759 is six and a halfned and be there and your story. 324 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:09.240 Would be. 325 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:11.440 Cute. 326 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.640 Amanda told me she'd filed a request for the case 327 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.880 files from the Attorney General's office. I let her know 328 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:20.599 I already had a copy of the AG's files at 329 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.960 a cost of seven hundred and twenty dollars. My access 330 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:26.759 to the files seemed to pique a man's interest. This 331 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:28.240 job was pro bono. 332 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.079 After all, I'm also in the process of getting stuff 333 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:31.799 from the FBI. 334 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:34.319 Two. 335 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:43.799 We're on the same page you're with Do you have 336 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:44.480 your private. 337 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:45.200 Vestcut of Boston? 338 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:48.640 No, I don't. I'm just a journalist. 339 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.920 I'm trying to figure out what to do here with. 340 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:00.240 Me. 341 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.720 I'm almost tempted, and I'll be quite honest. 342 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:10.799 With you. 343 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:18.559 To work with you on this, but nothing can be 344 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.319 released until it's time to take it to the FBI. 345 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:24.599 I could agree to that. 346 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.960 You and I can get together as soon as possible. 347 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:34.319 We'll sit down together. I'll show you everything that I have, 348 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:41.359 and we can go from there. You can do some interviews, 349 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:47.000 we can do something together. I can do something, but 350 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:50.200 we share what we've got, and I think we would 351 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:55.720 make a bigger headway quicker, I will tell you my 352 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.200 main suspect is without a doubt. 353 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.200 Sorry, I promised Amanda I wouldn't give this away just yet. 354 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:05.559 From here on out, I have to be pretty careful 355 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.799 about what I disclose, not to be overly dramatic about it. 356 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:22.519 All in due time, right. Ever since that first phone call, 357 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.559 Amanda and I have been talking through everyone who might 358 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.160 be a suspect in Kelly's disappearance. What about Joe Henry, 359 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:32.599 the video store manager. Sure, Joe was the last person 360 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:35.319 to see Kelly on the night she vanished, but he 361 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.160 had an alibi. He'd gone to the grocery store and 362 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.519 talked to a friend on the phone after getting off work. Plus, 363 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:44.519 Joe just seems like a nice guy to me. Philip Williams, 364 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.079 the local news reporter, is always quick to vouch for Joe. 365 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.519 A month after my first trip to Gilmer, I went 366 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.119 to see Philip again. I found him sitting in an 367 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.039 old recliner near the front door of his furniture store 368 00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:57.680 right off the town square. 369 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:00.720 Jo Henry up here to that Burger place? 370 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:04.759 Yeah, I popped in the same day I talked to you. 371 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:07.759 Joe and I had known each other a long time 372 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.680 when all this happened. He was one of my best friends, 373 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:14.640 and poor guy talking about being in the wrong place 374 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:15.640 at the wrong time. 375 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.079 Naturally he looked like a suspect because he walked out 376 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:19.880 with her that night. 377 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.160 Well, ain't no way, and hell, Joe Henry kill anybody 378 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:25.799 unless it was self defense. I mean, he's just you know, 379 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:28.680 never has been a violent person. 380 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:31.960 He has been squeaming this year about talking about it. 381 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.599 And one thing you're probably going to discover, and I 382 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.319 want to explain this to you in case you do, 383 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:44.400 if you don't already know, Joe has a conviction for 384 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:45.119 child or audi. 385 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:50.960 That happened eighteen years ago or so. 386 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:52.200 Now. 387 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:54.799 What happened was he had a friend who was into 388 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:58.119 it heavy. Joe had told him to get rid of it, 389 00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:04.519 and he's certainly no pediphile. He was downloading zip, zip 390 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.440 bounds and knees groups for this guy who is now dead. 391 00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:11.160 They came and got Joe's computer one day. 392 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:18.599 And found ten images on there, and Joe told me 393 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.240 that he was downloaded stuff for his Tony and couldn't 394 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.119 see what he was download when turn that was child 395 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.200 pornography and I traced it to his computer. 396 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:31.960 So he played no contest. 397 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.680 Philip told me that Joe's lawyer advised him to accept 398 00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.880 a plea deal even though he was innocent, to avoid 399 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.440 the risk of a long prison sentence. On January fifth, 400 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:46.240 two thousand and five, by sheer coincidence, thirteen years to 401 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.799