Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, and welcome to my podcast Drunkish. I'm Stephanie
Wilder Taylor. Last year I published a book called Drunkish,
where I told my story about quitting drinking. But now
I have a podcast where I get to talk to
other people about quitting drinking. So whether you're sober, sober curious,
or you just like hearing stories about winos and addicts,
you are welcome here and I am really excited for
you to hear today's episode. I got to interview my
friend Suzanne Whare I whose podcast The Sober Mom Life
I was on when my book came out, and we
had the best time. She made me feel right at home.
I wanted to make her my best friend. Her interview
with me today is honest and unfiltered and vulnerable, and
I feel like this is going to help a lot
of women.
Speaker 2: And before we.
Speaker 1: Start, please please follow, like, subscribe, do all the things
review I knew podcast because you can help me grow.
And now let's get to the interview.
Speaker 2: How are you? Oh my gosh, look at that. That
was good. I want to Yeah, I'm going to replay
that like when I'm feeling down, I'm just gonna go
back and I'm be like, what did Stephanie say about me? Again?
That was good?
Speaker 1: Well, you're very You're you're on fire right now. Oh
we have been for a while, so you got sober?
How long between? I want to hear your whole story.
I'm going to take you back through it. But then
you just started this podcast. I guess, like, I guess
that's just what I do.
Speaker 2: I just kind of yeah, I didn't have a plan
even and I was just like, Okay, I guess we'll
do this. I think I was maybe too years sober
when I started the podcast, and I was terrified to
start it because I thought, I was like, you know what,
I think the bullies in like middle school are just
going to come on and like give me horrible reviews.
And so that stopped me for a little bit. And
then I was like, you know what, just fuck them
if they do. Oh well I did that happen? No,
But now that I say it, they might. I don't know. No.
Speaker 1: Oh god, I have gotten so first of all, you
have a book coming out, and just be ready because not.
Speaker 2: Every review people people love.
Speaker 1: To shit on people on the internet. It's just how itpens. No,
it's so true.
Speaker 2: I feel like because I started influencing. I hate that term,
but I guess that it's true. I know, I guess
that's what we're calling it. So I started it ten
years ago, and so I have heard like the worst
things about me, and I think that made me pretty
specifically ready to kind of take on this variety influencer thing,
because I was like, Oh, you've already talked about like
what a horrible mom I am with thunderousighs, like literally
like all of the things, and I'm like, oh, I
can do this.
Speaker 1: And so I guess, yeah, so you were already influencing. Yeah,
and then take me take me back to that. Okay, okay,
I'll take you back.
Speaker 2: So I started influencing in twenty fifteen and kind of
before it was totally popular, and I didn't know what
I was doing. But I had just had my first daughter,
and I had her in twenty fourteen, and I was
battling what I thought was postpartum anxiety, but it turned
out to be OCD that I guess I had had
all my life. I didn't know that that's what those
intrusive thoughts were, and so I needed something and I
needed to just feel like myself again. I came from
being a sales manager at Bloomingdale's and so I was like,
let me just like get dressed again and take photos
of myself in my driveway like neighbors be damned. And
I started doing that. Yeah, I started doing that, and
it was fun and I liked it, and I gained,
you know, a loyal following. But then I opened up
about my postpartum OCD and my OCD when I got
on medication. And that's when I really saw like, oh, actually,
when we're vulnerable and when we like really put ourselves
out there and not just talk about you know, how
cute the sweater is, like it really creates a connection
even online. So I had that kind of foundation of
being like, Okay, I think I'm starting to understand this
online world. Yeah, and then fast forward. So I did
that for I did that for a while before I
quit drinking. And so it was like campaigns with Mordstrums
and Bloomingdale's and Kettle One Botanicals and and you know
a lot of wine brands, and so I was I
was the mom glamorizing wine and alcohol and not really
pushing it but just kind of weaving it into motherhood.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because, as you might remember from our interview,
I was the cocktail mom, cocktail playdate mom going on
the Today Show talking about how wonderful it is and
taking that time for ourselves and what's wrong with having
some wine with our friends while we're watching our kids.
So yeah, I think we had a similar I can't
wait to hear about when you made the change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, it's funny because I remember when you
shared that and I was like, okay, that's so, that's
just so similar. And when you just don't know, right,
I just had. I just had no idea, and I
think mine was actually even worse because I wasn't Actually
I didn't drink kettle one botanical. I didn't, so I
it was kind of like no, no, no, look at
I'll make this look pretty. And then I poured it
down the sink because I didn't like vodka, and so
it was even worse. It was me saying like no, no, no,
come and drink this and your life can look like this.
But I wasn't drinking it, which is I think what
a lot of influencers are doing now with this, like
saying like, isn't it cute? That I'm drinking wine in
the morning and you're they're not, or they are, but
also probably they're not, but their followers are. And so
so my drinking in motherhood, I think my story's a
little different than than a lot because I didn't really
drink a lot in motherhood. I think probably because of
my OCD. It wasn't I didn't really fall into the
mommy wine culture that much. But you know, I had
come from a binge drinking like I was a binge
drinking party girl in my in college for sure, and
then in my twenties and I still thought like, well,
obviously I'm not going to quit drinking because that's insane,
Like I'm not that right, and so I have to
make this work. And so I really like crushed moderation.
Like I was like, so so good at moderation. I
was so good at the rules, the will power. I
think probably because of my OCD. I was like, yes,
I'm doing this.
Speaker 1: But how old? At what where are we when you're
starting to moderate post college? I mean no, no, oh,
in college okay, So when you were bitch no no, no, no,
no okay, So binge drinking all through college? What did
that look like for you though, were you blacking out?
Were you waking up in the strangers rooms?
Speaker 2: Yes? All all of the above, blacking out.
Speaker 1: All the time because it's it's so interesting because I
have a kid in college yea, and to hear about
sort of the it's such a drinking culture that I
wonder if almost similar to And this is something I'm
only interested in as of late because of having a
kid in college, because I didn't go to college, so
I don't relate to it. But now that I have
a kid in college and I hear about every party,
they're all the pregaming, the pre pregaming, the gaming before
the pregaming, then you know, the waking up drunk and
then going to some but all and I can't imagine
that kind of pressure. And know, how do you know
that your drinking is different than other people's drinking if
everybody's drinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think you do, because it's not different,
which doesn't mean it's not a problem. It's just for me,
it really wasn't drinking or I mean, it wasn't different.
It was like we would all go, we would drink,
you know, the solo cups, the it was just a
that was just what we did. It was the binge
drinking and then kind of piecing it together the next
morning and being like, oh my god, I think probably
I did it more. And I also was more careless
with who I was with and who I went home
with and who you know. The walk of shame, which
is very aptly named, but also what about do we
have a name for what he does? Right?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: The shame is solely reserved for us as we're walking
home with my heels in my hand, the laying out bed,
not feeling shame, I guess, I guess right, feeling victorious yeah,
and being like yeah, got that map of victory right, yes,
And then we're like, oh my god again right like again.
That was for me in college and then in my twenties,
and I didn't really grow out of that. So in
my twenties, I graduated, I went to college in Wisconsin,
where I was from, and then I graduated and I
moved to Atlanta, and it kind of just continued because
it was partying. It was now we're working, but we're
still you know, partying, going out to clubs, and it
was definitely a cycle of Okay, we're going to party.
What a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, recover, then for the rest
of the week, you know. And I'm twenty three, twenty four,
and so hangovers they sucked, but they weren't like horrible,
and so it was I was stuck in that for
a long time. And so I really always hated my
relationship with alcohol, like that was the foundation of it.
And I hated it because it was unpredictable. I wouldn't
get wasted every time. My god, I'm just hearing my story.
Speaker 1: This is the This is what I love about this
community is when you hear if I heard you at
a meeting, I don't I don't know if you even
do that, but I would be like.
Speaker 2: Ah, I have to go talk to her afterwards. Yeah,
when you just hear totally.
Speaker 1: It's we have all this shame about how we did it,
and then we hear somebody else and we go, Yes,
unpredictability was my main thing.
Speaker 2: Yes, And it was just kind of like, Okay, let
me just close my eyes and jump into this because
I don't know. And it was like that for me
in my in my twenties, I got I I met
my husband when I was thirty. We got married. I
was thirty thirty two, had our first kid at thirty three,
so later, and I really made a decision. I was like,
I'm okay, I'm not going to do that anymore, which,
you know, I think the OCD and the post part
of OCD and just how haunted I was by intrusive
thoughts played a big part in it. That I really had.
Speaker 1: Learn about that, Like, what was it right away after
you had your baby?
Speaker 2: It was so she was born in August and it
was January fifth was the first, like intrusive thoughts and
if you have if you have OCD, you understand intrusive
thoughts aren't there's just and medication was the only thing
that helped me. They don't go away, and they haunt
you and they're a liar. But for me, it was
always worst case scenario, right, like what's the worst case scenario?
And up until January fifth, twenty fifteen, the worst case
scenario after she was born was that something bad would
happen to her, like I would drop her, I would
fall down the stairs, right, there would be some sort
of accident. And on January fifth, it was very clearly
changed from oh, that's not the worst thing. The worst
thing would be that I would do it, and so
I was then haunted by these thoughts about how could
I possibly be having these thoughts that I would do this?
But I love her, like this is not what I
thought being a mom would feel like, And it was
just I struggled in that for far too long, for
far too long, can you tell anybody? Kind of But
it's also it's also hard to I didn't know it
was OCD. I didn't know I had always had OCD,
and so it's really hard. Like I told my mom,
who's a therapist, and she was like, oh, yeah, everyone
has those thoughts, right, and kind of just like thinking
that that would help. And I'm thinking, but not every
not everyone has the thoughts like this, like that they
won't go away. In every waking minute, I'm like afraid
of knives and my husband has to get rid of knives,
which then makes it even bigger, and like I'm thinking
about these it was it was just it was all encompassing.
Speaker 1: So why didn't you tell your husband he had to
get rid of the knives.
Speaker 2: I mean, he knew, he we just all we didn't
know what it was. We didn't we just we just knew.
I thought I was going crazy. He knew I was
battling these thoughts, and he thought that that would help.
Right when getting was he.
Speaker 1: If you told him you have to get rid of
knives because I'm scared I might do something with a knife.
Was he at all like, oh shit, Like are you
really thinking about hurting our baby?
Speaker 2: Yes, he was. He was like that, And then he
was like, but I know you won't you know, which
actually was really important for me because and I would
be really vigilant in like, how is he going to
react to this? Because if he's freaked out, oh my god,
that means I could, right, And so he was like, yeah,
but you're not going what like this is insane? Of
course you're not going to write. So I was like, okay,
but we'd never really like put a spoke in the
wheels to be like stop, like this is actually not normal,
Like did he ever try to talk to your mom? Yep,
they talked. I also think I was very good because
my compulsions were mental, and so I was very good,
And he didn't know nearly the extent of how much
it was it was ruling my life, and like, you know,
we think about OCD compulsions being like counting or knocking
or cleaning or but you can have just mental compulsions,
which is almost really scary because no one can tell, right, Like,
no one could tell that, And so I was, Yeah,
I struggled for a year and a half until finally
the thought I finally had like a light bulb moment,
and I was like, oh my god, oh my god. Obviously,
like the answer is that I could take care of myself,
like I could, you know, I had suicidal thoughts and
that felt and that felt like, oh my god, duh,
why didn't I think of as before? Because if it's
her or me, it's me, right like obviously, and I
had the wherewithal, thank god to I had those thoughts
for probably like a week and was feeling like, yeah,
this is a great idea, like and then I had
the thoughts just to be like I don't think that's
supposed to feel like a relief, Like I don't think
I was supposed to be relieved by this idea, And
so then I was terrified. And then I told my
mom I need major help and so and actually it
didn't turn you know, I think when when we're stuck
in those intrusive thoughts, we are terrified that if we
say these thoughts out loud, we're gonna be locked away
and we're going to be treated as a threat, and
or that if we you know, if you spend all
day long trying not to think of something, you're not
going to say it because I'm trying not to think
it right right right.
Speaker 1: I was just feeling worried right now, like is this
triggering for you to even talk about?
Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all. Yeah, no, I've really really
I mean, and this is you know, March twenty sixteen
is when I finally felt like, oh my god, because
actually it didn't take I thought I would have to
go away and it it was like comically simple what
I needed to do. And I had a therapist and
who I said, that crazy horrible thought. And she said,
the way that this like just totally guts you and
panics you, and the fact that you're freaking out about
this thought tells me that you're not You're not gonna
do it. You're not a threat to your daughter. And
also when I saw then a psychiatrist, she said, OCD
is actually pretty easily treated with medication. And she said,
it's you know, and this isn't scientific but she's like,
it is like a like a switch in your brain.
And I started, So I was in therapy and I
started a low dose of antidepressant which also works for OCD,
and within two weeks the thoughts And it's not like
it's not like you don't have the thoughts, because we
all have crazy thoughts all day long. They just don't
stick like they did. And I'm not like haunted. And
so I will be on meds forever and I'm so
grateful for them because they saved my life. And now
I always you know, I love talking about it because
I think if I would have heard this podcast and
heard this story, you know, I'm like furiously googling, like
oh what happens? And so we need to hear these
stories of like no, no, no, this is your brain
is wrong. There's something going on with your brain biologically.
This isn't you as a mom, This isn't a failure
of yours in some way. And you also can't talk
yourself out of it, you know, talk therapy, CBT, it's
it's it's it's kind of like I always say, it's
like a type one diabetic trying to heal that in
the gym right, like we need more and that's okay,
Like our brains are part of our body and it's
okay if our brains need need help, and mine definitely did.
So Yeah, And so while all this was going on
as a new mom, I alcohol. I just could. I
just had no bandwidth or alcohol. I think this probably
saved me in a lot of ways and really like
put a stop to my you know cyclical like weird,
the over drinking, the not necessarily blacking out at that point,
but really getting drunk, and then the shame spiral because
it really like caused me not only to be aware
of how things affect my brain, because I think when
you have OCD you have a very specific relationship with
your brain and just like feel like how how things
affect me and my mental health. And so that shifted
everything for me.
Speaker 1: And so say more about you didn't have the bandwidth
for drinking, meaning what so you lost interest in it?
Speaker 2: Or yeah, I didn't have I had zero interest in
anything when you're when you're in a battle with their thoughts.
I just had no space for anything except for like eating,
couldn't stomach you know, I was teeny teeny tiny because
I the only thing I would do. I would work
out a lot to try to which I I guess
I could have turned to alcohol, and I don't you know,
I don't know why I didn't, but I think I
was just so I just didn't trust myself already as
someone with OCD undiagnosed OCD that then bringing alcohol into it,
knowing that then for sure I didn't trust myself. It
was just a no go, like I'm not going to
do that.
Speaker 1: So then what made you decide to quit drinking as
opposed to like, now you could easily moderate if you're
not even interested in it. What would make you go,
I'm never going to drink again.
Speaker 2: Well, and I didn't get there yet, and so okay, yeah,
so that was okay, like buckle up, well and I
you know this. Okay, So I got the OCD under control,
and then I had two more babies. My second baby,
a Breeze, loved it, like I was like, okay, this
is what it should be. Now life is back to normal.
Right now now my brain is fine and I feel
I feel pretty stable. And so I did invite alcohol
back in And did you send like a written invitation
or did you? I was like, you're come over alcohol,
your alcohol. I missed you. I missed you. What have
you been up to? Your alcohol? You're so cool.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I like didn't make time.
Speaker 2: For you before. That's on me. Yeah, let's catch up.
I did. And actually I would say I don't have
a rock bottom. But if I did, this is it
because my daughter was young young enough. Number two number
one still so this is even before number two. So
number one back then and when I was like, okay,
I you know, I had my OCD under control, and
my friend and I were gonna do a lady's who
lunch kind of thing with our babes, and uh we
had champagne at the country club, which you do, and
then it we just yeah, right, so fancy, and then
it just continued and and I blacked out. You know,
our babies fell asleep, just on the on the couch.
Nothing happened. We were you at home or at a
country club? At home? Okay, we continued our drinking, you know,
I was like, well, come over, we could walk to
my house and then continue the after party right with
our baby. Yeah yeah. And then I blacked out, and
and that like rarified me, I think because I was
on the other side of this o CD battle and
nothing happened, but the idea that it could have. And
I had this, you know, but I didn't stop drinking
then for I don't know, six more years, five more years,
but that was.
Speaker 1: I don't love it, but I mean it's so relatable.
I can't. I mean, I mean, you know, I tell
everybody knows that, and they will know that my bottom
was driving with my kids in the car and nothing
happened for me too. But I always say, like, I
don't want to make it sound prettier than it was,
because I had a lot of things that could have
been a bottom. They just weren't right, and I didn't
see I had a lot of humiliating even post kids.
Speaker 2: It's not like that's the first and.
Speaker 1: Only thing that ever, you know what I'm saying, Like, yes,
getting really drunk and going trick or treating with my
kids and then waking up and realizing I don't remember
anything about the night before, and that was a bit
of a bottom. I tried to quit drinking, but I didn't.
So it's always good to hear like, no, it wasn't
the first thing that you did that you were like.
Speaker 2: That's it, right, right, because We're not like robots, right,
We're not like, Okay, check that off and then we're done. No.
It's and also in a world that pushes alcohol and everything,
especially new moms, you're like, well, obviously, I just have
to drink better.
Speaker 1: And so I think that.
Speaker 2: My store is a little bit different because I did
quote unquote drink better, and that doesn't mean that I
just don't think there's a better way to drink. And
I did then really get pretty strict, like my kids
never saw me drunk. I was like, yes, I will
have one glass of wine or two glasses of wine,
you know, if I'm coming home to the kids. When
my husband and I went on trips, then yeah we'd
tie one on and I would, you know. But as
far as like being a mom, but still I hated it.
It felt like hell like moderating alcohol because even when
I successfully and I'm saying that in huge quotes, because
even when I successfully drank and followed my moderation rules,
I still had so much shame. It was like the
shame was the same and so I but I did
that for you know, then five more years until then
the last night I drank, I had just had my
third baby, and he was three months old and I
was breastfeeding. But you know that didn't stop me because
I was like, yeah, no, I didn't pump and dump
or anything. I was like, you know what, it's an art,
it's not a science. Like he'll be fine, I know
it sounds bad.
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm just smiling because yeah, who these people
that pump and dump. It's like, well now also, and
I bet you were like me. I never thought I
was buzzed. So in my mind, I was always drinking
fancier than I was. I was always like sipping the
loss of wine even though it was my third you
know what I mean. But in my mind it was
super fancy. It was like just having a few SIPs
of wine while I breastfeed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine. I remember like we had a mom's
group and we all had babies at the same time,
and we were like out at a brewery, which one
is after you have a baby in your breastfeeding, and
we were all breastfeeder a baby's while drinking beer because
we were like, no, that's what it says, because then
they're not getting the beer breast milk. They're getting the
breast milk. That's in there now, right, and so to
trick the system, like drink while you guys, I do
not recommend this, but this is this is what. Yeah,
I was in that kind of Yeah.
Speaker 1: Our books are full of tips like these, yeah, and
stay tuned for the book.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then the last night I drank, I okay,
so I had I had just had him. I was breastfeeding,
and you know, after after all the pregnancies I had
like this like hump I had to get over where
I'm like, ugh, alcohol tastes like elko and like ooh.
But I was like I just got to get over
this hump so that I can like enjoy it again.
And so this was the first time I was drinking
in a year, and it was at like a fancy party.
My glass was never empty, you know, like topping it off,
and I blacked out and I woke up the next
morning and while none of my kids saw me blacked out,
I had to have nursed him in the night. I
had to have because he was three months old and
my babies all you know, never slept through the night
until they were like five, and so I'm still nursing him,
no kidding, but so I so then it hit me
like holy shit, you nursed your baby in a blackout,
like and just seeing myself walk down the hall and
like or like stumble down the hall and like pick
up his little body, and I I was just like
you know what, And that whole day I felt like
just shit. I was thirty nine years old and you
know the hangover, oh, and I hadn't had it so
long because being pregnant. And I just said to my husband,
I'm done, and I think he was like that's cute,
you know, he said, like okay, but something inside me
and I don't know, you know, we talked about like
the click or like the moment and like you don't
know why it's that moment. But I was like, I'm
going to do everything in me so that what I
just said was not a lie, Like I'm going to
make sure that's true. And so then I just was
like obsessed. It was I think it's this one my
OCD treated. You know, it came in handy. But I
was like, okay, I'm going to learn all about what
I'll call is. I didn't know what it does, and
like how I have you, Like I'm finally going to
start to tell the truth and Yeah, that was that
was the quest. I have chills.
Speaker 1: Honestly, You're so good at expressing yourself and it's so
clear and I think and so relatable. I mean, I
had that moment too. It was when I woke up
the next morning after driving. And for me, in the moment,
like when I came home and my husband was like,
you're drunk and you were driving a car, I was like,
what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2: No, obviously I'm not getting drunk.
Speaker 1: I feel fine. In the morning I had when I
woke up and was like, oh my god. I mean
I didn't I hadn't blacked out. I remember the evening,
but I was very very drunk. I know I was
drunk because it was all blurry and it was like
I had to kind of piece together, like I sort
of remember him trying to call me a lot of times.
And so when I had that, I had a moment well,
for I was super sick, but I had that same
the clique where I was like, yeah, oh this is
far from normal. This is terrible. I don't want to
ever ever feel this feeling again. Yeah, yes, And was
your son was he okay? Like did you fine?
Speaker 2: Like he was?
Speaker 1: But still you don't know, so you're like, that could
have gone another way totally.
Speaker 2: And that was always you know, it's hard not to
think about my OCD and when I quit drinking, because
it was always like, well what if? Right, Like yeah,
this time he was fine, but what if next time
it's not? And that's the thing about when we invite alcohol,
and when we write alcohol our pen pal and say like, hey,
come on, come and join me in this. We are
no matter if you are you know, the moderation rock star,
which also is hell so it sucks. Yeah, we are.
We are just inviting in a lot of uncertainty and
saying like well I don't know what's gonna happen, but
I'm going to cross my fingers. Yeah, And that that
just terrified me enough. You know, a good, healthy fear
of alcohol is just good sense, I think. So did
you reach.
Speaker 1: Out for any like traditional kind of help, like what
or do you just read like did you get support?
Speaker 2: What did you do? I just okay, so this was
January twenty twenty. Okay, yeah, uh bad timing? Bad? Bad
or good? I guess how do you look at it? Yeah,
because you know, women's drinking went up something like forty
three percent during COVID because of course, right, we're like
what else you're going to do, right, Yeah, and we're
scared and we need to Yeah. And so I I
was terrified of going to AA only because of what
I've heard, and I just always thought. I was like,
I it just I don't want to. I don't want
this label on me. And I was like, you know,
and I know AA has helped so many people, and
I think that that's wonderful and that it's there. I
was just I never like saw myself there and saw
myself going. And so what I did was then I
just kind of focused on really really learning the truth,
like first of all, and so I had like one
AirPod in every day, like I became obsessed and listened
to you know, we are the luckiest, like a woman
the snaked mind. Like constantly I was like, just give me,
give me, like all of the information that I knew.
I knew the fried egg was, this is my brain
on drugs, but like give me that version. Like let's
start like rudimentary. What is alcohol and like how does
it affect us? Yeah? And so then I started doing
that and I really just slowly then just on my
own started being like, how okay, because I had so
many stories of when alcohol showed me, you know, what
it could do and what it could take and steal
from me, and I just had never been honest about
those stories until I quit. And you know, it is
helpful that my mom's a therapist. I also went to therapy,
and I started just talking about these times and this
shame that I had carried through, and a lot a
lot of the shame was tied to, you know, having
sex with men I didn't know and waking up in
their bed and really like how could you and what's
wrong with you? And that always kept me. I don't know.
This was like the first time that I was like,
you know what, I don't think there's anything wrong with
I think I've been turning to alcohol for a lot
of things that it's never going to give me, and
so I need to look at that and I need
to figure out better ways to do this stuff.
Speaker 1: You feel like you ever used alcohol. I ask you
this because it was true for me to allow you
access to like your sexual self for intimacy, Like I
feel like I was very uptight and scared all the time,
and alcohol helped me to feel like what I love sex'.
Speaker 2: Yes, and like yeah, I want to be sexy too,
but I don't my body like what in my vagina?
What like it's that I don't write like yes. In
order for like a man to have sex with me,
I need to be like out of my mind, right,
that's what. That's how it felt. And interestingly, because when
my husband and I were dating, you know, there was alcohol,
and in our marriage there was alcohol and so sober
sober sex. Right even with my husband it was like Okay,
let's do this, and like I'm gonna be I'm going
to be awkward and like I might be a little
bit uncomfortable, and you know, thank God for him and
you know he's amazing and he's like yeah, let's ye,
let's do it. And so it was like really untangling
the role that alcohol played and my sexual life was
a big part of my sobriety and also like a
way just to just to love myself and to say
like no, no, like all of that stuff that you
thought you had to be, you know you don't and
this is it. You're good.
Speaker 1: I feel like we're lucky that we had partners that
we already felt safe with and trusted because I always
feel I always feel awful for people that then have to.
Speaker 2: Go date, I know know, and like sober dating, right,
like that dating is scary enough, but then also like
alcohol with dating, that was a true like I am
lucky that I, you know, came out of it unscathed.
Like I'm always like, how did I get through that?
How did I come home? How did I not get
you know, how did it? How was it not worse?
And so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So now I want to hear about the transition in
your business life. So now you quit drinking and you're
this like lifestyle blogger, lifestyle influencer, but now you suddenly
made this big decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I So in between there, while I was figuring
out like what I thought about my sobriety, what I
wanted it to be, what I what didn't feel good,
I was kind of like formulating these things. And then
actually my dad passed away pretty tragically, like just over
a year into my sobriety, which really like cemented my
sobriety for me, because I you know, it was a
lot of complicated grief. We were in a fight when
he died, and after like being really really close to
my whole life, and so it was very complicated and
every I had green lights all around like hey, you
know this sobriety thing, yes, of course, but also like
if you want to drink to deal with this, like
you know, everyone would understand, like it's fine, and I
was like, you know, no I don't because I didn't
want to. I didn't want to miss the grief because
I felt like I missed the end of his life.
And so I was like, no, no, this is actually
a way to honor him. And so then that really
kind of catapulted it into like, Okay, this is this
is a thing. This isn't just an experiment, this is
actually now. I have felt some pretty gnarly things in sobriety,
and I like survived the feelings. The grief didn't take
me down. And I was like, all right, I think
I've got this. And so about I had started in
Instagram because that's what I knew best, and I started
just the sober mom life Instagram, but I didn't share
it and I didn't tell anybody, and I was like,
let me just like work this out on my own.
And then after my dad, you know, after I went
to therapy for that, a lot of therapy, a whole
lot of therapy. We love therapy, we love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: After that, then I was like, Okay, I think I
think it's time then to because it started to feel
like I don't want to hide this and I just
I don't want to just talk about sweaters anymore.
Speaker 1: And I think, are you getting any offers from alcohol
brands at this time?
Speaker 2: Probably I don't even remember. I probably was, and I
didn't take them. I didn't take any any offers from
alcohol brands once I stopped drinking. But I also didn't
tell my my audience, my main audience on my on
my main page, what I was doing, and it started
to feel and authentic. I was like, I can't tell
you about the fit of these genes anymore. Like, ugh,
I don't want to. I don't like I love affiliated
links as much as the next girl. But oh so
so then I I after some kind of back and forth,
and actually my friend Katie Rexing, who has a podcast
and she had stopped drinking right after I did, she
was like, why aren't you bringing this over here? And
you know, and my manager at the time, because the
influencers have managers to manage all of the campaigns, and stuff.
You know, we had been talking about it because it
would really mean me saying I'm not going to do
any of these campaigns anymore, because if you're not talking
about fashion and clothes and stuff, they're not gonna want
campaigns from you. And so I was like, yeah, I
think that this is it and this is what I
want to do. And so then I kind of I
just made I always say I just jump and then
I just pray to God someone's gonna catch me. And
they did, and so then I started I started bringing
Sobriety over to the main Instagram page. I launched the podcast,
not knowing what the hell I was doing, Like, I
got an editor and I was like, can you help me?
And then I just googled. And then once I saw
the response of women being like, oh my god, I
thought I was the only one who played these like
mental games and from the outside really looks like I'm
a successful drinker in quotes, but I hate it and
that I don't want to wait for something to happen. Yeah,
as soon as I as soon as I started hearing
from all of these women, I was like, oh, well,
now this feels a little bit less scary, like they
made it. They made it not easy but possible.
Speaker 1: It's amazing when you realize, you know, I think, right
before you quit, it feels like you're the only person
who thinks these thoughts. And I'm sure you probably felt
this way about the OCD as well, Like I'm the
only person who thinks these dark thoughts and thinks about
hurting my baby, and you know, and when we're drinking,
we go, I am the only person who cannot control
And how is it possible that I can't just say no?
Like why don't I know when I've had too much?
Like what is wrong with me? There's something defective about me?
And like, to me, it's similar with sugar and with
you know, the food issues that I've had since I
was a kid. And it's almost worse with food because
it's this weird message in your mind when you're like,
why can't I stop eating cookies? Very negative, it's like, God,
you're such a pig, You're so gross, Like what's wrong
with you? Just stop eating the fucking cookies? You know.
But I also had that with the alcohol, even though
alcohol wasn't my first love. But it was the same
thing with like what's wrong with you? If I swush
to drink, your engage it's dangerous. You're gonna then you're
gonna drink. Then you drive your car, like why, what's
wrong with you? And then you quit, and all of
a sudden you realize how we're not alone. There's so
many of us that look normal on the outside and
are having the same thoughts about about food, about alcohol,
about sex, about whatever.
Speaker 2: We're not alone, yes, and that, you know, that's always
I started a membership community just to be like, hey,
can we just all come and talk about like all
of the thoughts that we thought we were the only
ones having about drinking and doubts about our drinking. And
that's just I always think that's the most freeing, freeing
part of it. I imagine all of our all of
our little homes in COVID aspect, right, and when like
we're just all, you know, all in our houses and
like in our bodies, in our minds, and all of
these thoughts, and like, what's wrong with me? Why can't
I all of this stuff? And then all I did
was just like flipped on my light and I was like,
do you think anybody anybody else? And then all of
these lights in the home started like coming on and
they were like, oh my god, and really we've been
taught not to talk about alcohol, like we have been
taught like, don't talk about alcohol, don't talk about your
doubts about your drinking because otherwise, Right then you're like,
I don't know, you're destined to this, like life without
it's like wait, but what if like the life without
alcohol is actually like really fucking good and you get
back to like yourself and you pick up that girl
who you know when I started drinking at like fifteen,
and I get to like go back to her and
be like, hey, what do we like? Like, what do
we like to do? Remind me like where are we?
You know, when we get to like bring her along
and it's just it's my favorite.
Speaker 1: Did you worry that you just wouldn't have fun or
that you wouldn't be able to be an influencer? Did
you worry like this was gonna end everything?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Totally.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought At first I thought, Okay, obviously my life
is over. This sucks, like I'm not gonna be invited
to anything. Yeah, how am I gonna have fun? What
am I gonna? What about that? You know? I have
been the one hashtag ad with the wine, like oh
my god, what am I gonna do? And anytime anytime
like those thoughts, because you know me and my thoughts,
anytime those thoughts came up, I just was. I am
like very compassionate with my brain and with my thought,
which I think really helped me, because anytime those thoughts
came up, I was like, well not yet, let's just wait,
let's wait and see, like let's really and so yeah,
I worried about all of it, and you know, now
sitting here, I'm like, man, man, if you only knew,
like I always assumed that alcohol was like the fast
track to connection, and I was like, let's just get
wasted and like tell each other everything right, and like
then we'll be best friends. Cocaine too, I never tried it.
I never tried cocaine because I knew I would love it,
Like that would be my speech.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would have absolutely loved it for twenty minutes.
But it's different because cocaine is like, for the first
twenty minutes, you're like, oh my god, tell me your
life story. You are so interesting, and then twenty minutes
and you're like, I really need a little more cocaine
to hear more of this story.
Speaker 2: You're like, oh wait, you're not that interesting. Actually yeah yeah.
I always was like you know, I really really wanted
to connect, like that's always been That's why I love
doing this. That's why I like, just tell me, don't
I don't care about like the sports your kids are in,
but like tell me about your trauma. And I'm like
in like yes, yeah. And so I always thought alcohol
was like the key when like in sobriety, Like the deepest,
most meaningful connection that I have ever found has been
in sobriety. And it's kind of it's kind of like,
you know, you meet a sober woman and you're not
at like from zero to one hundred, you're like at
a thousand, and then you're like great, I see you
like you and I like we're like, no, yeah, I
get you, you get me, like yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And when I did your podcast, I was like I
need to make this woman my best friend. And they
we're also busy, so but in my mind I was
like I'm coming back to her. Yes, it's so fun.
I love talking to sober people. And let me just
ask you this with your husband. So at first, when
you got sober. He was like, uh huh, yeah, we'll
see about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now it was like I've heard that because I know
with my husband, he was supportive of me. You know,
he saw the pain that I was in of like
I can't have this happen again. But he was very
much like, you got to be gentle with yourself, like
you're not an alcoholic, Like you don't need to grab ever,
like you just need to you just need to be
mindful and not drink and drive, you know. And I
was like, bitch, if I could be mindful, I wouldn't.
I just don't think he understood the extent of what
was going on in my brain, that's it. And he
didn't under understand that I just can't help it if
I have some and that I really just didn't trust
myself with alcohol. But once I really stopped, he adjusted.
But it took a little while because I think he
felt a little a little bit alone without like a
drinking buddy at first. And I'm wondering how.
Speaker 2: That was for you.
Speaker 1: Totally.
Speaker 2: I think it is like we flip the script right
and it's like, wait, okay, so this thing that we
do together, you're not doing anymore. And I always think
of it as like, oh, I have to like catch
you up because there's a lot in my head that
happened during while I was drinking, even before I met you,
that you don't know, and so let me let me
catch you up and let me really tell you, like
how all the shame that was tied to drinking for me?
He was It's so funny because everyone asked this, and
I like, what did your husband think I was? When
I tell you I was obsessed. He didn't even like
really factor into my to my decision, which is insane
as a as a wife and a mom, being like, no,
I was so focused on myself because when are we
ever that focused on ourselves? But I really was that.
I was like, this is something I'm doing, Like I'm
not going to ask you what you think about it
or if you're okay with it, because right now it
doesn't matter, Like this is just what I I'm doing
and I don't do that, like I'm not normally like that,
right And then he thank God, like he's amazing, and
he still drank. He was still you know, he was
a party guy too. And then and then his drinking
was just you know, two beers and then he was done.
I don't think I've ever seen him drunk. He was
definitely drunk before me, but I don't think I like, yeah, yeah,
and so I I you know, we we had to.
I had to figure out what I felt comfortable with
and what my boundary was because I I didn't want
him also coming home and like smelling like liquor that
I hated. And so I was like, you could have
two not you can have, but like I feel comfortable
and like two beers and it's like Amstell lights and
he's a huge guy, so that's what he liked with golf,
and I was like, yeah, that feels good. I'm like,
it feels scary if it's like a martini and two beers.
I don't like that. Like not that he's scary, but
I just don't like being on different levels. And so
we did that for probably three and a half years,
and then just last April he was decided to go
a year without alcohol, and so he's been sober for
almost a year.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: You know, I know it's killing me not to be like, so,
what's the plan, because you know, and we'll talk about it,
but I'm I'm very careful not to prosthetize or push
or you know, I think as soon as we start
pushing and saying like, hey, you know, this is what happens.
I put him in a position to defend alcohol and
I don't want to do that, right. I want him
to but since I've quit, my brother stopped right after I.
Oh wow, I know my mom quit at sixty nine
years old, and then my husband. And not like I
promised you guys, I wasn't like you guys got to stop.
Did you know that alcohol causes you know, I wasn't annoying. Well,
let me get a little, but I wasn't over like annoying.
Speaker 1: You're creating PSAs and you're like, I just want to
invite everybody over. I'm going to just show you something
I've been working on. I just put it on the
speakers and what's what's new? There's a PowerPoint knowing do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's awesome. We'll tell everybody.
Speaker 1: So so this, the community that you created, helps a
lot of people. I came and did my when I
was doing my book, I came and you have like
a book club.
Speaker 2: I came to s and that was amazing. How like
we loved you, We loved and and so many of
the women and their love you and they were like
I remember her first books and I was so glad
when I saw drunkish come out like they they love you.
You have you have major fans in that. Oh that's
so nice.
Speaker 1: So how do people join your community? Give give me
all the promo.
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's called the Sober Mom Wife Cafe. Really
just because I love coffee. You have to bring your
own coffee, like we don't. We don't buy it. It's
it's a community. We have about four hundred women and
it's all like it's open to sober, curious and sober.
It's a place for you to come and finally start
telling the truth about alcohol and you know, hopefully find
freedom from it. We have zoom peer support meetings to
three times a day. Oh wow, yeah yeah, and it's
led by you know, my mom who's a therapist, leads
a couple of them. Although it's not it's not therapy,
it's just peer support. We have some like sobriety influencers
who lead some I lead one every Friday, and it's
just a place like it's you could be five if
you're sober, ten years sober, two weeks sober, and you
will find that it's just helpful. It's helpful for life stuff.
You know, we often say so much about sobriety. It's
not just not drinking, right, the not drinking part. You
get that down and like I don't crave alcohol anymore.
I don't think about it. But it's like wait, yeah,
like sober sex with my husband, Like okay, how am I?
How do I deal with feeling awkward on a date
with my husband when I'm used to drinking? Right? And
so we talk about everything. We talk about mothers in
law a lot, because you know, when they come to visit,
what do we do? And even though I love my
mother's and the LIAW if you're listening, yeah, we talk
about all of it. And so you can. Yeah, I'll
give I'll give you a link to share for a
week free and you can try the meetings. I always say,
like just come camera on camera off talk like don't
wait until you're not scared. It's probably like a A right,
I'm terrified to talk. And that's that's kind of a
good sign. That's like a little nudge that that yeah
you should so yeah, real.
Speaker 1: Okay, and then your Instagram.
Speaker 2: My Instagram is zan ware I and it's w A
R y e. It's it's it's hard, guys, it's like
wear clothes and I that's how I remember it.
Speaker 1: I'm pictured me picture it in my head. When you
told me how to pronounce it, I just had to
pick a picture.
Speaker 3: W e A r I but yes, yes, but exactly
it is w A R y I E yes, yep, yep.
Speaker 2: And that's where I share, Yeah, the bright side of sobriety.
And you know, sometimes I get called out that I
make it look like too pretty, and I'm like, great, no,
that's great because like they've been glamorizing alcohol for a
really long time.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I love that, glamorizing sobriety. Yeah, yeah,
you dozing sobriety right. And the book is coming out
in September.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's coming out here Octember. We haven't we haven't
announced the name and everything yet. But if you're if
you're like in the cafe, you'll get you'll get first
exclusive everything, and then Instagram you'll you'll get to see
that too.
Speaker 1: You don't have the name. I have the book on Amazon.
Speaker 2: No, we have the name, but we haven't like rolled it.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, but you're like, wait, we can just google it?
Speaker 2: Well you know you can't. Okay, do that. Okay, this
is why I need a publicist. They're did it to
tell me? Like when to? I don't know, it's definitely,
I don't know.
Speaker 1: Pre Orders are our pre orders are where it's at.
People can go pre order your book?
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Can I say what it's called. It's called The Sober Shift. Listen,
I've got an author to I know how this.
Speaker 2: You do it?
Speaker 1: Just Sober Shift and uh you it is available right
now for pre order, and.
Speaker 2: It will help her. It will help her to get
some pre orders. Okay, do that, especially closer to.
Speaker 1: When it gets released. So if you want to wait
a few months, that's fine too. But this is going
to be a great book. And there's some mocktail recipes
in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got ten mocktail recipes and it is every
chapter is a shift from you know, day one to
sober first and like kind of a new way to
think about sobriety. And so everyone always asks me how,
like okay, but how did you do it? This is
this is how I love that.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so so much for sharing your story.
This is going to help a lot of people, and
it was just fun hanging.
Speaker 2: Out with you. Oh my god. Can we do it
again tomorrow? Yes, we don't even have to record it.
Speaker 1: Well, we can definitely do it again soon before your
book comes out.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'll look in to that. Okay, bye, everybody that's
not live again for this time.
Speaker 1: You don't it to