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<v Speaker 1>On the morning of May twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, a

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<v Speaker 1>woman dropped her five children off at school and returned home,

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<v Speaker 1>just like she had done so many times before. But

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<v Speaker 1>within a matter of hours, she vanished without a trace,

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<v Speaker 1>leaving behind a house that suggested something had gone terribly

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<v Speaker 1>wrong inside. As investigators began piecing together what happened, a

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<v Speaker 1>timeline emerged that pointed not just to a disappearance, but

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<v Speaker 1>to a carefully executed crime. And what followed was a

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<v Speaker 1>case built on evidence, contradictions, and a question that still

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't been answered. Where is Jennifer. This is the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Jennifer Dulos.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 2>and Grim, a true crime podcasting.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast material in more mature audience listener discretion.

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<v Speaker 1>I need to stop doom scrolling on my phone so bad.

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<v Speaker 1>I spent so much time just scrolling today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well it's pretty dang easy to do.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. I just get sucked into this void and

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<v Speaker 1>I hate it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't feel like I'm too bad, but often I'll

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<v Speaker 2>go on like my photography page to look for something,

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<v Speaker 2>and then ten minutes later, I'm like it's been scrolling

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<v Speaker 2>and it's like, oh shit, what did I go on

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<v Speaker 2>here to do? So if I go in there to

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<v Speaker 2>look for something, I can get caught. But I don't

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I tend to spend much time like doom scrolling.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, like I don't have a problem with people

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<v Speaker 1>consuming content. I like to consume content. I'm a content creator.

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<v Speaker 1>I've spent time on social media.

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<v Speaker 2>There's nothing wrong with it, but I think I need.

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<v Speaker 1>To make it a little more intentional. It's this like

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<v Speaker 1>just like stuff that's just crammed in your face, this

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<v Speaker 1>perfect analytic creation that the machine feeds you. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>you just get in this zombie state.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I don't spend a lot of time because

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<v Speaker 2>if I have a hot minute to go on social

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the person that then has like fifty million reels

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<v Speaker 2>that have been sent to me, so then I have

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<v Speaker 2>to go and watch those.

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<v Speaker 1>They're almost sure they're usually sent to you by me too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah sorry, yeah, mostly by you and then a couple

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<v Speaker 2>friends and stuff. So if I have a minute to

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<v Speaker 2>doom scroll, I'm probably just going and checking these messages

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<v Speaker 2>that people sent me with their doom scrolling.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is yeah, fair enough, but I do want to say,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to curate your content not rely on

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<v Speaker 1>the algorithm, you should head over to our patreon. So

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<v Speaker 1>you got some cool content over there, just like Jennifer Whitmore,

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<v Speaker 1>Melissa Smith, Cherry Kay Jen, and Jessica Carver all did.

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<v Speaker 1>They went over there, they signed up, they get the

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<v Speaker 1>exclusive behind the scenes. And today as this episode is dropping,

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<v Speaker 1>also an exclusive episode is dropping over there on Patreon.

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<v Speaker 2>Two. Yeah, fantastic.

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<v Speaker 1>You could be getting some more cool true crime content

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<v Speaker 1>stories from us.

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<v Speaker 2>You could get two on one day, which is pretty dope.

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<v Speaker 1>That's like double the wickedness. H really is and it's

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<v Speaker 1>not very grimp. Well, the stories might be, you know

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying. Stories always are the stories are, and today, honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a little bit of a grim tail. Once again,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you're ready for this.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually well, I was kind of listening to your intro,

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<v Speaker 2>but I have no idea what the hell is going

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<v Speaker 2>to happen, So well, let's do it.

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<v Speaker 1>The intro I did leave it a little bit ambiguous.

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<v Speaker 1>Try not to give too much away in the intros,

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<v Speaker 1>because I've had some people tell me that I give

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<v Speaker 1>too much away in the intros, so I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>leave it a little bit more of a question mark

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<v Speaker 1>hanging above it. If that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Usually, if you read the description of the podcast, I

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<v Speaker 1>give away a little bit more so if you, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>listen to the intro, read the description, you usually have

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<v Speaker 1>a good, good feeling what the story's about. But I

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<v Speaker 1>will say this one has a bit of a mystery

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<v Speaker 1>still to the end of this story.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, I don't love that.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a solved case though. Okay, there still a

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<v Speaker 1>mystery to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, let's hear it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, most people don't end up in a completely different

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<v Speaker 1>life overnight. It usually happens slowly. Things change a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit at a time, and you adjust as you go.

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<v Speaker 1>You get used to certain conversations or certain patterns and

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<v Speaker 1>different tensions and things in your life, and before long,

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<v Speaker 1>it just becomes a new part of your normal day

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<v Speaker 1>to day. You still go to work, you still take

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<v Speaker 1>care of your family, showing up where you need to be.

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<v Speaker 1>The routines are all there. It's not like there's a

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<v Speaker 1>single moment where everything clearly falls apart. It's more like

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<v Speaker 1>a gradual shift that only really makes sense when you're

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<v Speaker 1>the one living inside of it. At some point, though,

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<v Speaker 1>you start to realize that things aren't settling back into

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<v Speaker 1>place like they should be. The same issues keep coming up,

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<v Speaker 1>the same feelings stick around, and you might try to

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<v Speaker 1>ignore it for a while or convince yourself it's temporary,

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<v Speaker 1>but eventually it gets harder for you to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>You start thinking about what it would actually mean to

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<v Speaker 1>make a change, and whether that's even something you can do,

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<v Speaker 1>And when you finally decide that you are in fact

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<v Speaker 1>going to move forward, it feels very practical and even necessary,

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<v Speaker 1>like something just had to happen, even if it's uncomfortable

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<v Speaker 1>or uncertain. It's a situation a lot of people can

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<v Speaker 1>relate in many ways, trying to move forward, trying to

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<v Speaker 1>make the right decision, and hoping that once you do,

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<v Speaker 1>things will start getting better from there. In some cases,

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<v Speaker 1>those changes, even if they are made for the right reason,

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<v Speaker 1>they can lead to deadly results. In the late morning

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<v Speaker 1>on May twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, things should have been

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<v Speaker 1>very routine, just another week day, with the school drop

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<v Speaker 1>offs being done and the house becoming a little quieter

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<v Speaker 1>once again. When the nanny pulled into the driveway at

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Dulo's home in this story in New Canon, Connecticut,

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<v Speaker 1>about an hour northeast of New York City. Nothing seemed

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<v Speaker 1>at a place. The house looked the same as it

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<v Speaker 1>always did, but as she walked inside, small details started

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<v Speaker 1>to feel off. Jennifer, for example, wasn't there at first.

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<v Speaker 1>That alone wasn't alarming. She could have stepped out or

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<v Speaker 1>gone to run some errands or something. But then her

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<v Speaker 1>purse was still inside, and her phone wasn't being answered,

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<v Speaker 1>And there was even a cup of coffee that was

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<v Speaker 1>still left sitting there untouched. And then there were paper

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<v Speaker 1>towels they were nearly gone. It wasn't one single thing,

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<v Speaker 1>it was everything altogether. You know, the kind of feeling

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<v Speaker 1>you can explain right away, but you know something isn't

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<v Speaker 1>right when these things start to not add up. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>before anything really felt wrong, before the eventual investigation and headlines,

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, Jennifer Dulos had built a life that looked

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<v Speaker 1>almost ideal to many. She was born Jennifer Farber in

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<v Speaker 1>New York City in nineteen sixty eight into a wealthy

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<v Speaker 1>and well connected family. Her father was a successful banker,

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<v Speaker 1>her mother deeply involved in philanthropy and Jennifer grew up

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<v Speaker 1>surrounded by opportunity, but the people who knew her didn't

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<v Speaker 1>describe her in terms of money or status. They described

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<v Speaker 1>her as thoughtful and creative, someone who paid attention to

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<v Speaker 1>people in ways that made them feel seen. She went

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<v Speaker 1>to Brown University, where she focused on writing, as it

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<v Speaker 1>was something she cared deeply about. She wrote plays, she

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<v Speaker 1>wrote essays, and later kept a blog where she shared

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<v Speaker 1>pieces of her life, often centered around her children. She

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<v Speaker 1>had a way of capturing small, everyday moments and turning

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<v Speaker 1>them into something very meaningful. That was the life she wanted,

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<v Speaker 1>not just success, but connection, family, and a home that

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<v Speaker 1>felt full now. During her time at Brown University, that

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<v Speaker 1>is where she met a man by the name of

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<v Speaker 1>Potus Dulos. At the time, nothing came of their relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>Their lives moved in different directions for years. But later

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<v Speaker 1>and in the early two thousands, they reconnected, and this

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<v Speaker 1>time things moved rather quickly. They fell head over heels

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<v Speaker 1>for one another, and they got married in two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and four. Soon after that, they settled into a large

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<v Speaker 1>home in Farmington, Connecticut. Over the next several years, they

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<v Speaker 1>had five children together, and Jennifer stepped into the role

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<v Speaker 1>of a full time mother, raising them in a life

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<v Speaker 1>that seemed to have everything, space, security, opportunity, and most

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<v Speaker 1>importantly love, and for a while it worked like a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of the ideal happily ever after type life. She

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<v Speaker 1>wrote about her kids often, things like their personalities and routines,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course the little things that made them who

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<v Speaker 1>they were. Her life became centered around them and it

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<v Speaker 1>was everything she had ever wanted. But inside that life,

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<v Speaker 1>things weren't as stable as they seemed. At first. The

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<v Speaker 1>changes were subtle, nothing you could point to right away

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<v Speaker 1>and say that's the moment that everything went wrong kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. It was much more slower, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>more of a gradual shift now. Fotus he had always

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<v Speaker 1>been very ambitious. He built his career developing high end

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<v Speaker 1>homes through his company for group, and he had an

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<v Speaker 1>image that mattered to him. You know, how things looked

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<v Speaker 1>and how he appeared from the outside. He had success,

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<v Speaker 1>control and presentation to worry about. It was all part

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<v Speaker 1>of it. Now. In the beginning, that drive felt like confidence,

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<v Speaker 1>but it started to feel very different. With more time

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<v Speaker 1>than passed. He was gone a lot. He was focused

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<v Speaker 1>on work, a lot and on projects and maintaining a

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<v Speaker 1>certain lifestyle, and as that part of his life expanded,

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer's world seemed to shrink smaller and smaller. She was

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<v Speaker 1>at home, raising their five children, managing everything that came

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<v Speaker 1>with it, and the balance between the two of them

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<v Speaker 1>began to tilt, and with it came tension. There were

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<v Speaker 1>ongoing arguments that didn't seem to resolve, with moments where

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<v Speaker 1>things escalated further than they should have, with his behavior

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to become more controlling and more intense. There were

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<v Speaker 1>instances where he would become angry very quickly, and situations

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<v Speaker 1>turned rather confrontational. Jennifer started to feel something. She didn't

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<v Speaker 1>always say it outright, but in the way she wrote,

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<v Speaker 1>in the way she described her life, that's where the

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<v Speaker 1>hints were. A sense that things in Wonderland, if you will,

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<v Speaker 1>weren't stable, a sense that something underneath the surface wasn't correct.

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<v Speaker 1>And as time went on, that feeling didn't go away,

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<v Speaker 1>it only grew. Now by twenty seventeen, the marriage had

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<v Speaker 1>already been understrained, but it hadn't fully broken apart. But

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<v Speaker 1>that changed when Fotus told Jennifer that he had been

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<v Speaker 1>having an affair.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I don't know why, but I wasn't expecting that the.

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<v Speaker 1>Woman he was seeing was someone named Michelle to Connus,

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<v Speaker 1>and she had quickly become a central person in his life.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I hate that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now this turmoil and infidelity wasn't something that stayed hidden

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<v Speaker 1>and wasn't privately handled exactly. The relationship became very obvious

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<v Speaker 1>and the situation between them was growing rather difficult. At

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<v Speaker 1>one point, Fotus even actually suggested that his girlfriend, Michelle, well,

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<v Speaker 1>his home wrecker of a girlfriend, I should actually say,

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<v Speaker 1>he suggested that she should move into the house them,

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<v Speaker 1>proposing that they all continue living together under one roof.

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<v Speaker 2>Like he wants to live with his wife, girlfriend and

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<v Speaker 2>his five kids under one roof.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct, So we had got the shit. He has a

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<v Speaker 1>home with his wife and five kids, and he's like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>what if my girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>Moves in nobody That's not how it works, right, It

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<v Speaker 2>just you can't have the best of both worlds there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So it was a suggestion that clearly made it

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<v Speaker 1>obvious how far things had moved and it was not

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<v Speaker 1>something that was resembling a functional marriage for Jennifer.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes me angry. That even that suggestion.

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<v Speaker 1>There, with that suggestion, she knew this was a very

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<v Speaker 1>clear line that was being marked. So whatever remained between

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<v Speaker 1>the two of them, it was obviously officially over. And

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<v Speaker 1>so in June of twenty seventeen she made the decision

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<v Speaker 1>to leave. So she packed up her five children and

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<v Speaker 1>moved out of that Farmington home and relocated to New Canon, Connecticut,

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<v Speaker 1>and the following day she filed for divorce. Now what

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<v Speaker 1>stood out in that filing wasn't just that the marriage

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<v Speaker 1>had ended, but how she described it. See, Jennifer detailed

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<v Speaker 1>what she believed had been a pattern of escalating behavior

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<v Speaker 1>from her husband, Fotus. She described him as irrational, unsafe,

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<v Speaker 1>and very controlling, especially increasingly so. Not to mention, she

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<v Speaker 1>made it clear that she was actually afraid, not just

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<v Speaker 1>of the situation, but what he might do. In this situation.

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<v Speaker 1>She wrote that she believed filing for divorce would enrage

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<v Speaker 1>him and that he would retaliate by trying to harm

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<v Speaker 1>her in some way. This wasn't something written casually. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to make that clear. It was very direct, a

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<v Speaker 1>statement of concern documented in court filings. This is with

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<v Speaker 1>her divorce papers. There were also specific incidents that were

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<v Speaker 1>referenced and included. She alleged that he had purchased a gun,

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<v Speaker 1>that he had threatened to take the children, and that

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00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:04.000
<v Speaker 1>during one confrontation, he even followed her into a room,

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<v Speaker 1>blocked the exit, and physically intimidated her as she tried

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00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:13.080
<v Speaker 1>to leave. Now, Fotus, of course, denied that all of

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<v Speaker 1>that actually occurred. He said that he had never threatened her,

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<v Speaker 1>that he had never acted in a way that was

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<v Speaker 1>dangerous or controlling whatsoever. Instead, he framed the situation as

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00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:27.320
<v Speaker 1>a breakdown in communication rather than something serious as what

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00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:30.879
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer was alleging. Now, from what he said, the focus

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00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.279
<v Speaker 1>should remain on maintaining a relationship for the sake of

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00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:38.320
<v Speaker 1>the children. But by that point, Jennifer was no longer

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<v Speaker 1>trying to preserve anything as far as a relationship goes.

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<v Speaker 1>She was focused on leaving and protecting herself and her

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<v Speaker 1>children first.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, fair enough, because he started that with the affair

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00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:53.720
<v Speaker 2>exactly right. He made that decision that they were not

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<v Speaker 2>going to be moving forward in this for the sake

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<v Speaker 2>of the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he drew a line where the family was and

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<v Speaker 1>he was trying to reshape it in a way that

259
00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>he wanted not what works in a marriage, right, a

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<v Speaker 1>marriage you worked together. He was not working together. He

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00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.919
<v Speaker 1>was working for the sake of himself. Yeah, so with

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00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.919
<v Speaker 1>that comes separation. Now what followed from there was not

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00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.879
<v Speaker 1>a clean or quiet divorce. It quickly became something far

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<v Speaker 1>more drawn out and even aggressive, you could say, stretching

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<v Speaker 1>over months and then years, with both sides locking into

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00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.840
<v Speaker 1>legal battle that showed no signs of slowing down. At

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<v Speaker 1>the center of this divorce was, of course, the custody

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00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:38.080
<v Speaker 1>battle over the kids. Initially, the court granted shared custody

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<v Speaker 1>of the five children while the divorce proceedings move forward,

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<v Speaker 1>but almost immediately Jennifer pushed for full custody, arguing that

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<v Speaker 1>Photus' behavior made it unsafe for the kids to be

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<v Speaker 1>in his care without any supervision. The whole thing started

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<v Speaker 1>as a dispute over parenting arrangements, but quickly it turned

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<v Speaker 1>into another prolonged fight, with filings, counter filings, and motions

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<v Speaker 1>tot up over time. By the end, there were hundreds

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<v Speaker 1>of court documents tied to this case, making it one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most contentious divorces in Connecticut at the time. Now,

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00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>as the legal proceedings unfolded. The whole situation became increasingly

279
00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:21.600
<v Speaker 1>restrictive for fotus, and eventually Jennifer was granted sole custody

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<v Speaker 1>of the children and his access was limited to supervised visitations.

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<v Speaker 1>Now that was very significant, because not only had the

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<v Speaker 1>marriage ended, but his role in the children's daily lives

283
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>had been reduced in a very public and legal way

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00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:41.519
<v Speaker 1>to be enforced to well down to the bare minimum.

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<v Speaker 1>At the same time, the financial pressure on him was building.

286
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer's family had previously supported his business ventures, including his

287
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.519
<v Speaker 1>real estate development company, and so the relationship began to

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00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>deteriorate there as well, and that support actually turned into

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00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.919
<v Speaker 1>a legal dispute in its own self.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Goodness's okay, that makes it even more messy.

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00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:06.640
<v Speaker 1>It does, so soon a lawsuit was filed seeking repayment

292
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:11.000
<v Speaker 1>of millions of dollars, adding to a whole nother layer

293
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.880
<v Speaker 1>of pressure on top of the already unstable situation.

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00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.119
<v Speaker 2>But honestly, that's not surprising. Of course, they would probably

295
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.519
<v Speaker 2>support their daughter, right why not? So it makes sense.

296
00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that's what happens in separations. Separations occur,

297
00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.960
<v Speaker 1>but there's a lot more things tied to relationships finances,

298
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:34.880
<v Speaker 1>children's children's children, businesses, all these sort of things, companies.

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<v Speaker 1>It gets messy.

300
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>It's almost surprising that he didn't think that's true.

301
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.960
<v Speaker 1>I guess, but well, lots of time people don't.

302
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:42.599
<v Speaker 2>They don't.

303
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.680
<v Speaker 1>So now his finances were strained, and the legal cost

304
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.680
<v Speaker 1>from the divorce only made things worse. When it came

305
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.440
<v Speaker 1>to the court proceedings themselves, they were very intense. There

306
00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.160
<v Speaker 1>were multiple legal teams involved, repeated hearings and moments where

307
00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.960
<v Speaker 1>the conflict between Jennifer and Fotus played direct out in

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00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:04.200
<v Speaker 1>front of the judge, and at one point, after dismissing

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00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:07.519
<v Speaker 1>his attorney, Fotus even chose to represent himself in court,

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00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.039
<v Speaker 1>and that decision allowed him to personally question Jennifer under oath,

311
00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:17.279
<v Speaker 1>turning what was a very tense process into another confrontation

312
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.640
<v Speaker 1>wide open in court. Now. During one of these early hearings,

313
00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.759
<v Speaker 1>the judge overseeing the case actually took a very unusual step.

314
00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:31.000
<v Speaker 1>After listening to hours of testimony, he paused the proceedings

315
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:36.160
<v Speaker 1>and he spoke directly to both Jennifer and Fotus. He

316
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.079
<v Speaker 1>acknowledged that they were very intelligent and capable people with

317
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:43.680
<v Speaker 1>resources and opportunities that many families didn't have, and he

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00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:46.160
<v Speaker 1>warned them about the direction of things and how they

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00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:49.960
<v Speaker 1>were headed. He told them in very simple terms that

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00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:53.279
<v Speaker 1>if they couldn't find a way to resolve these things themselves,

321
00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.720
<v Speaker 1>the court would of course continue to step in, and

322
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:02.039
<v Speaker 1>that process would only make things harder, not easier. He

323
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.960
<v Speaker 1>urged them to consider how the situation would even affect

324
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.160
<v Speaker 1>their children, and what it would look like from the

325
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.839
<v Speaker 1>outside if those children were sitting in the courtroom watching

326
00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:14.400
<v Speaker 1>this unfold for themselves. It was a moment that, in hindsight,

327
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.119
<v Speaker 1>felt like a warning, but unfortunately nothing changed.

328
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm just sitting here, though, and how you described this

329
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:25.440
<v Speaker 2>judge having to sit there for hours listening to this, right,

330
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.079
<v Speaker 2>that must be the one of the least fun jobs

331
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:30.519
<v Speaker 2>out there. I feel that would just be hell.

332
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're being a mediator between two individuals who are

333
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:35.640
<v Speaker 1>doing he said, She said.

334
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who are hating each other. And oh, I just

335
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.400
<v Speaker 2>think it would give you a headache by the end

336
00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:40.640
<v Speaker 2>of that.

337
00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think the judge basically wanted them to

338
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:46.680
<v Speaker 1>just like suck it up, get this over with and

339
00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.799
<v Speaker 1>move on with your lives already. I just picture like, like,

340
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a kindergarten teacher listening to two kids

341
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.920
<v Speaker 1>argue over at the playground over who's juice boxes who's

342
00:19:57.920 --> 00:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>and the teachers just like, I don't fucking care.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I just think I would hate that. But honestly,

344
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's fairly common, right, I mean, there's

345
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.240
<v Speaker 2>a lot of emotions going into ending a relationship, and

346
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.039
<v Speaker 2>especially when you have kids involved in stuff, So I

347
00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:14.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of get it, but I'm just like, that would

348
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.000
<v Speaker 2>just be hell to have to sit there and listen.

349
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.480
<v Speaker 1>To all of that, definitely. So there's it makes sense,

350
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.920
<v Speaker 1>Like you say, a lot of emotions and everything, but

351
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.480
<v Speaker 1>you've got to try and find the line, the common ground,

352
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:29.519
<v Speaker 1>if you will, and that common ground is it's very

353
00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.799
<v Speaker 1>hard for people to find, especially when you have very

354
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:39.680
<v Speaker 1>messy situations like finances, like companies, like children in the picture. Now,

355
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:44.160
<v Speaker 1>if anything, this conflict only continued to escalate. The filings continued,

356
00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:47.480
<v Speaker 1>the accusations continued, and what was supposed to be just

357
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.799
<v Speaker 1>a divorce had turned into a prolonged fight over control

358
00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.240
<v Speaker 1>over the children, finances, and how the story would ultimately

359
00:20:54.279 --> 00:20:57.359
<v Speaker 1>be told. And as the pressure continued to build, it

360
00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:01.160
<v Speaker 1>created a situation that was just all unstable, as if

361
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.920
<v Speaker 1>everything was being pushed towards a breaking point that hadn't

362
00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:09.440
<v Speaker 1>quite happened yet, but that pressure that was building, it

363
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.279
<v Speaker 1>was getting closer and closer to breaking.

364
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Now.

365
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<v Speaker 1>On May twenty fourth, twenty nineteen, it didn't begin with

366
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<v Speaker 1>anything out of the ordinary, at least not from Jennifer's

367
00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.440
<v Speaker 1>point of view. She woke up, she got her children

368
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:25.640
<v Speaker 1>ready for the day, and followed the same routine she'd

369
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:29.519
<v Speaker 1>done countless times before that. It was just before eight

370
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.799
<v Speaker 1>am when she left her home in New Cannon and

371
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.440
<v Speaker 1>drove them to school. At around seven to fifty eight am,

372
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:37.799
<v Speaker 1>she dropped her children off, and a few minutes later,

373
00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:42.359
<v Speaker 1>just after eight am, she returned home. That moment, when

374
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.640
<v Speaker 1>she pulled back into her driveway would later become the

375
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:50.799
<v Speaker 1>last confirmed sighting of Jennifer. Now. Earlier that morning, more

376
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.079
<v Speaker 1>than an hour before she returned home, a red Toyota

377
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:59.319
<v Speaker 1>Tacoma had left a property connected to Potus in Farmington. Now,

378
00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.160
<v Speaker 1>the vehicle did belonged to him directly, In fact, it

379
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:06.279
<v Speaker 1>was from an employee of his, But we'll touch on

380
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:10.160
<v Speaker 1>that vehicle a bit later. At approximately seven point thirty

381
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:13.799
<v Speaker 1>one am, Surveillance footage from that area near Jennifer's home

382
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.319
<v Speaker 1>captured a figure riding a bicycle in the direction of

383
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.119
<v Speaker 1>her street. Now, that doesn't stand out. People ride bikes

384
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.960
<v Speaker 1>all their time, especially early morning right getting your exercise. Yea,

385
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.119
<v Speaker 1>so it wasn't unusual. But later, when the investigators began

386
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.400
<v Speaker 1>reviewing the timeline, that detail it stuck out. But again

387
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:36.680
<v Speaker 1>we'll get to that. By the time Jennifer arrived back

388
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.880
<v Speaker 1>at her home just after eight am, whoever had been

389
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:44.640
<v Speaker 1>moving through the area earlier that morning was already there waiting,

390
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.400
<v Speaker 1>and sometime within the next two hours, between approximately eight

391
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.680
<v Speaker 1>h five am and ten twenty five AM, something happened

392
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:58.079
<v Speaker 1>inside her house, something that would shift everything. At ten

393
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:02.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty five am, Jennifer's black Shae Chevrolet Suburban was seen

394
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:07.119
<v Speaker 1>leaving the property. However, she wasn't driving it now. By

395
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.519
<v Speaker 1>the time the nanny arrived at the house later that morning,

396
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 1>it was around eleven thirty am. As she pulled into

397
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:16.119
<v Speaker 1>the driveway, the house looked the same as it always did.

398
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:18.839
<v Speaker 1>It was quiet, but not unusual for that time a

399
00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:22.279
<v Speaker 1>day with the kid's gone. Inside, though, things didn't feel right.

400
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer wasn't there like she usually was, which you know,

401
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:28.680
<v Speaker 1>it's not cause for alarm at first. Could be you know,

402
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:30.720
<v Speaker 1>her stepping out for the day or doing an errand

403
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.759
<v Speaker 1>especially after finishing dropping kids off at school, who knows.

404
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.880
<v Speaker 1>But that's when the details began to stack up. Her

405
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.359
<v Speaker 1>purse was still inside the house, there was a cup

406
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>of coffee that would have been left sitting there, and

407
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:45.079
<v Speaker 1>it was untouched. And when the nanny tried to reach her,

408
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.359
<v Speaker 1>there was no response, no call back, no message, nothing.

409
00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.000
<v Speaker 1>There were also signs that something had been used quickly,

410
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:57.599
<v Speaker 1>in large amounts. Paper towel, which was normally stocked in

411
00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.200
<v Speaker 1>the house, well, it was nearly gone. It wasn't something

412
00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:03.319
<v Speaker 1>that made sense on its own, but in the context

413
00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:06.119
<v Speaker 1>of everything else, it added to the feeling that something

414
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.640
<v Speaker 1>had happened. It didn't quite fit the normal morning routine.

415
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.440
<v Speaker 1>The longer the nanny went without any response from Jennifer,

416
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.240
<v Speaker 1>the harder it became to explain these things away. See,

417
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:20.720
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer was someone who stayed very connected, especially when it

418
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:23.559
<v Speaker 1>came to her children. She didn't just disappear without letting

419
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.759
<v Speaker 1>someone know where she was. She didn't leave her belongings

420
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:31.160
<v Speaker 1>behind and ignore calls. So by early afternoon, concern had

421
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 1>set in A call was soon placed and the situation

422
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.640
<v Speaker 1>was reported to police. At first, the situation was treated

423
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.119
<v Speaker 1>as a missing person's case. There was, however, still a possibility,

424
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.920
<v Speaker 1>at least early on, that Jennifer had left on her own,

425
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:47.960
<v Speaker 1>that there was some explanation that hadn't surfaced yet, But

426
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.400
<v Speaker 1>that possibility began to disappear as soon as investigators stepped

427
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>inside the home and made their way into the garage.

428
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.640
<v Speaker 1>What they found there shifted the direction of the case.

429
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Immediately inside, officers found blood, a lot of it, and

430
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of it. It certainly wasn't minimal

431
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:14.039
<v Speaker 1>by any means, and it was very clear it wasn't accidental. However,

432
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.039
<v Speaker 1>it had been cleaned well enough that you may not

433
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.759
<v Speaker 1>notice it at first glance, but it was certainly there. Now.

434
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 1>The blood covered an extensive area. It was found across

435
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.559
<v Speaker 1>multiple surfaces, on the garage floor, along the walls, and

436
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.960
<v Speaker 1>on the door leading into the house. It wasn't even

437
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.200
<v Speaker 1>contained to that just one area. It wasn't something that

438
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:37.720
<v Speaker 1>could be explained by a minor injury either or an

439
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.079
<v Speaker 1>isolated event. Forensic experts were in fact soon called in

440
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.759
<v Speaker 1>and they tested the blood, and DNA testing confirmed that

441
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:46.400
<v Speaker 1>the blood belonged to Jennifer.

442
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Mmm, okay, which is expected, but holy moly.

443
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Now, forensics also confirmed that there were patterns in what

444
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.000
<v Speaker 1>was left behind, Signs in the blood that something had

445
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:02.119
<v Speaker 1>happened quickly and whatever followed involved movement, perhaps a prolonged struggle.

446
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.359
<v Speaker 1>Areas had of course been wiped down, and attempts to

447
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.240
<v Speaker 1>clean the scene were very visible, but they hadn't been

448
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.880
<v Speaker 1>enough to remove the evidence entirely, which of course explains

449
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.480
<v Speaker 1>that missing paper towel. But then there was one detail

450
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 1>that stood apart from everything else. On the kitchen faucet,

451
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.039
<v Speaker 1>investigators found a mixture of blood. It was confirmed to

452
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:28.759
<v Speaker 1>be a combination of both Jennifer's blood and someone else's. Now,

453
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:31.720
<v Speaker 1>this suggested that whoever had been involved in what happened

454
00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:35.480
<v Speaker 1>in the garage had sustained an injury as well, even

455
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:39.119
<v Speaker 1>if it was just minor. Then they proceeded into the

456
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.759
<v Speaker 1>house to clean themselves up in the kitchen sink and

457
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:48.119
<v Speaker 1>accidentally left their DNA behind, and that's someone else. Well.

458
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.000
<v Speaker 1>The DNA was confirmed to be that of her ex husband, Fotus.

459
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.599
<v Speaker 2>It was hey, oh my goodness, this is just brutal.

460
00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Now. It was a small piece of evidence compared to

461
00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:02.079
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the crime. But of course, this being

462
00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:05.279
<v Speaker 1>someone else's DNA, it carried a lot of weight. It

463
00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:09.160
<v Speaker 1>placed him inside the home in a physical, measurable way

464
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:13.839
<v Speaker 1>connected to the same event that left so much blood behind. Now,

465
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:17.400
<v Speaker 1>remember this is not his house. This is Jennifer's place.

466
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 1>This is where she divorced him and moved to.

467
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 2>She moved away from the house.

468
00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:26.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, exactly, so there's much less reason for his DNA

469
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:27.400
<v Speaker 1>to be there.

470
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:29.119
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, it shouldn't be there at all.

471
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, at that point, the investigation was no longer

472
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.400
<v Speaker 1>about finding someone who might have left voluntarily. The condition

473
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.839
<v Speaker 1>of the garage made that extremely unlikely. The amount of blood,

474
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:43.599
<v Speaker 1>in fact, made it impossible to ignore what it suggested,

475
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 1>and investigators began working under a different assumption that Jennifer

476
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.599
<v Speaker 1>hadn't simply disappeared, but that she had likely been killed

477
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and that Photus was somehow involved.

478
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:58.599
<v Speaker 2>This is always so hard to understand because this is

479
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:02.599
<v Speaker 2>the regard of the beef that you have with her, Like,

480
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:05.640
<v Speaker 2>this is the mother of your kids, So it just

481
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:08.400
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make any sense that you go about harming them,

482
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.680
<v Speaker 2>because like your kids obviously love her and meet her

483
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.720
<v Speaker 2>so what what the hell are you doing?

484
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:17.599
<v Speaker 1>You're harming more people than just the person you're targeting.

485
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:22.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then also, buddy, are you stupid because you're

486
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.799
<v Speaker 2>very much so going to be the first one everyone

487
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:25.519
<v Speaker 2>looks at.

488
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:30.319
<v Speaker 1>Right obviously, Now, I do want to mention forensics Also,

489
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:34.599
<v Speaker 1>they found with the amount of blood left behind, that

490
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:40.240
<v Speaker 1>without immediate medical attention, Jennifer wouldn't likely not survive really,

491
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and there were no reports of her seeing or receiving

492
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.039
<v Speaker 1>any sort of medical attention whatsoever.

493
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, okay, that's devastating.

494
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Now, investigators started reconstructing the morning of May twenty fourth

495
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.960
<v Speaker 1>as best as they could, looking at vehicle movements, surveillance footage,

496
00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and phone activity. The goal wasn't to jump to any

497
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:04.759
<v Speaker 1>sort of conclusion, but to understand what had actually happened,

498
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, step by step, following the evidence and let

499
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.759
<v Speaker 1>it tell the story. And those steps were laid out

500
00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:16.240
<v Speaker 1>and inconsistencies began to appear. Now, the suburban leaving Jennifer's

501
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:19.160
<v Speaker 1>home at ten twenty five am became a very central

502
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 1>piece of this timeline. If she hadn't been seen after

503
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 1>returning home just after eight am, then whoever had driven

504
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.079
<v Speaker 1>that vehicle had to have had access to the house,

505
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:32.039
<v Speaker 1>but the question was who could have been there during

506
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:35.559
<v Speaker 1>that window of time. Up to this point, the investigation

507
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:39.359
<v Speaker 1>had been building very slowly. Investigators were working through the timeline,

508
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>examining the home, trying to understand what had happened inside

509
00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:46.519
<v Speaker 1>that garage. There were strong indications that a violent incident

510
00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:49.160
<v Speaker 1>had taken place, yes, of course, but there was still

511
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.440
<v Speaker 1>a need to connect the events to something more concrete

512
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.200
<v Speaker 1>outside the house, and that connection came later that same

513
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.920
<v Speaker 1>day through surveillance footage in Hartford. Now, on the evening

514
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.880
<v Speaker 1>of May twenty fourth, between approximately seven point thirty and

515
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:08.920
<v Speaker 1>eight pm, cameras captured a red Toyota Ta Coma moving

516
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.559
<v Speaker 1>through several areas of the city. The vehicle stopped multiple

517
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.960
<v Speaker 1>times along a relatively short route. At each stop, the

518
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.160
<v Speaker 1>driver would pull over near a trash bin, step out

519
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.759
<v Speaker 1>of the vehicle, and place a black garbage bag inside

520
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.039
<v Speaker 1>before continuing on to the next one. Now, of course,

521
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 1>people throw away garbage every day all the time, but

522
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.920
<v Speaker 1>the number of stops, the spacing between them, and the

523
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 1>deliberate nature of the movement suggested it was not a routine.

524
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Errand yeah, that's very ominous.

525
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.519
<v Speaker 1>It instead seemed much more methodical, as though the contents

526
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of those bags were being distributed intentionally rather than discarded

527
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.440
<v Speaker 1>in a single location. So they're spreading them out, trying

528
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.839
<v Speaker 1>to hide something likely. Now, as investigators reviewed that footage

529
00:30:55.839 --> 00:31:01.079
<v Speaker 1>more closely, they identified the driver, and that was photus.

530
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.759
<v Speaker 2>Of course it was. You know, I don't know why

531
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.319
<v Speaker 2>my brain should have already predicted so much on this,

532
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:09.759
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, but I'm just sitting here a lot

533
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:13.240
<v Speaker 2>of on my own little world. And clearly he freaking

534
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:17.279
<v Speaker 2>dismembered her body, well, the bags and now is disposing

535
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:17.559
<v Speaker 2>of it.

536
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Here's the thing, though, there was someone else on that

537
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:23.240
<v Speaker 1>footage too, Oh okay, there was someone sitting in the

538
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.559
<v Speaker 1>passenger seat of that red Toyota Tacoma and it was

539
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:31.039
<v Speaker 1>Michelle traconis his new girlfriend.

540
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Freck. Of course, it was now that.

541
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Immediately connected the activity in Hartford back to everything that

542
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:42.079
<v Speaker 1>had already been discovered earlier in that day. Investigators quickly

543
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.160
<v Speaker 1>began recovering the bags from each of the dumpsters at

544
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.119
<v Speaker 1>every single location seen on the camera, and what they

545
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:50.880
<v Speaker 1>found inside provided one of the cleanest links in the

546
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:55.000
<v Speaker 1>case so far. Now, unlike what you thought the contents were.

547
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.079
<v Speaker 1>In this case, the contents actually included items directly connected

548
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:01.880
<v Speaker 1>to Jennifer and the events that had taken place that morning,

549
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:03.440
<v Speaker 1>but not body part.

550
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:07.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so like wads of bloody paper towel maybe, Yeah,

551
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:07.480
<v Speaker 2>there were.

552
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.599
<v Speaker 1>Things like bloody clothing, things that had been cut apart,

553
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.640
<v Speaker 1>cleaning materials, tips, some paper towel, gloves, zip ties. All

554
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:18.839
<v Speaker 1>these things and several of these items were stained with

555
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.200
<v Speaker 1>crimson red blood, and DNA showed that it was in

556
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:28.640
<v Speaker 1>fact Jennifer's blood. Investigators also recovered altered license plates associated

557
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>with her vehicle, indicating that the steps were taken again

558
00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:35.960
<v Speaker 1>to disguise or conceal things and movements earlier that day too.

559
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.039
<v Speaker 1>The evidence from the garage was huge, and the evidence

560
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.839
<v Speaker 1>from the dumpster equally so, and it all showed that

561
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.200
<v Speaker 1>a violent event had indeed occurred, But the recovery of

562
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.400
<v Speaker 1>these items demonstrated that there was very much so a

563
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:53.160
<v Speaker 1>specific effort to try and dispose of material that were

564
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 1>connected to the events, hiding what had happened, which means

565
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.720
<v Speaker 1>what happened inside that home did not end there. It

566
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:05.039
<v Speaker 1>continued outside into the world. But thankfully, instead of eliminating evidence,

567
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.799
<v Speaker 1>those actions created a clear picture of the truth, and

568
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.440
<v Speaker 1>they were thankfully recovered now. In the early stages of

569
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.359
<v Speaker 1>the case, there had been an effort to already establish

570
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:19.160
<v Speaker 1>where photos had been during that critical window of that morning.

571
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>The evidence coming in with the security cameras, the DNA

572
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.000
<v Speaker 1>and everything else were very fantastic, yes, but they were

573
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:29.240
<v Speaker 1>already looking into him before all this came out now.

574
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.759
<v Speaker 1>At first, there were elements and evidence that appeared to

575
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:35.960
<v Speaker 1>place him away from new Canon, things like phone activity,

576
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.640
<v Speaker 1>movements tied to his property in Farmington, and other details.

577
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 1>It seemed to suggest he had been elsewhere when Jennifer

578
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:47.119
<v Speaker 1>returned home, establishing a very possible alibi. But those details

579
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.599
<v Speaker 1>were examined more closely and the consistency began to break

580
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.839
<v Speaker 1>down fast. One of the key pieces of that investigators

581
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:58.920
<v Speaker 1>focused on was his phone activity. Records showed that his

582
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.559
<v Speaker 1>phone had been active in ways that showed normal movements

583
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:04.960
<v Speaker 1>and use during the time that Jennifer was believed to

584
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:10.079
<v Speaker 1>have been attacked. However, as interviews progressed and additional information

585
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:13.519
<v Speaker 1>came forward, it became clear that those records did not

586
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:18.800
<v Speaker 1>necessarily reflect his actual location, and investigators determined that his

587
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.920
<v Speaker 1>phone had not been in his possession the entire time.

588
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.239
<v Speaker 1>In fact, evidence showed that his girlfriend, Michelle, had been

589
00:34:25.320 --> 00:34:28.440
<v Speaker 1>using his phone during key parts of that morning, so

590
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:31.599
<v Speaker 1>by making calls and sending messages, she had created a

591
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 1>digital trail that gave the impression that photos was somewhere else,

592
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:39.960
<v Speaker 1>creating a false alibi. And at the same time, other

593
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.639
<v Speaker 1>inconsistencies began to emerge in Michelle's own statements that were

594
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:48.559
<v Speaker 1>being taken see during multiple interviews with investigators, her account

595
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:53.159
<v Speaker 1>of that day changed. Details about where she had seen Fotus,

596
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.639
<v Speaker 1>where he had been, and what they had done together

597
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:58.440
<v Speaker 1>did not remain consistent from one version to the next.

598
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:02.840
<v Speaker 1>In some instants, she even later acknowledged that earlier statements

599
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.880
<v Speaker 1>she had made were not accurate. Now other important discoveries

600
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 1>added to that shift, and one was when investigators recovered

601
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:16.440
<v Speaker 1>handwritten notes that outlined a version of events that day.

602
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.760
<v Speaker 1>These notes, often referred to as alibi scripts, appeared to

603
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.159
<v Speaker 1>organize a timeline that matched in most parts what Michelle

604
00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:30.199
<v Speaker 1>had told investigators. Some elements of the timeline aligned with

605
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 1>known facts, others didn't, and the presence of these notes,

606
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.079
<v Speaker 1>what they suggested was that the account had been presented

607
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:42.679
<v Speaker 1>and planned that it was a rehearsed timeline of events.

608
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that makes them well, I mean they're already in

609
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:48.719
<v Speaker 2>deep shit, but that makes it a little bit worse.

610
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, So, the policer are questioning her and she's giving

611
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.519
<v Speaker 1>a story of events, and they find this paper that

612
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:58.719
<v Speaker 1>they had prepared, already written out like a grocery list

613
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:01.440
<v Speaker 1>of what they're going to tell police. Was their story?

614
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Huh? And clearly though, she doesn't really do the best

615
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.320
<v Speaker 2>under pressure, for just the fact that her story is

616
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:12.599
<v Speaker 2>like periodically changing and it's not completely the same each time.

617
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's very true.

618
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:16.960
<v Speaker 2>So she couldn't have probably planned for that, right, not

619
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.199
<v Speaker 2>knowing exactly how intense it would be being questioned by

620
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.360
<v Speaker 2>the police when you actually are a guilty piece of shit.

621
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:27.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you're a home wrecker to start with, I

622
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:30.440
<v Speaker 1>have a feeling you're someone who can't really keep stories straight.

623
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 1>You just are used to getting your way and getting

624
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:36.199
<v Speaker 1>away with things. So she's probably just like, oh, yeah,

625
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.519
<v Speaker 1>I got this, And in reality, when she's actually questioned,

626
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:44.320
<v Speaker 1>actually pressured, that's when you know, those inconsistencies the bullshit

627
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:48.000
<v Speaker 1>comes to surface. So now, of course, by the time

628
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.800
<v Speaker 1>investigators reached this point, they were no longer working with

629
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:54.159
<v Speaker 1>isolated pieces of evidence. The timeline had been built, the

630
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:58.199
<v Speaker 1>physical evidence had been analyzed, and the inconsistencies and the

631
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:02.159
<v Speaker 1>alibi were already being idea. What they needed to do now, though,

632
00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.760
<v Speaker 1>was to put those elements together into a sequence that

633
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:08.599
<v Speaker 1>explained what had likely happened from start to finish, and

634
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:12.280
<v Speaker 1>hopefully from there they could essentially reverse engineer where they

635
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:17.280
<v Speaker 1>could find Jennifer now. Investigators believed that Potus left Farmington

636
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:20.880
<v Speaker 1>before sunrise in that red Toyota Tacoma that had been

637
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.800
<v Speaker 1>borrowed from one of his employees. At some point, he

638
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.400
<v Speaker 1>made his way towards New Canon, parking the vehicle away

639
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:33.000
<v Speaker 1>from Jennifer's home to avoid drawing attention from there. They

640
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.199
<v Speaker 1>believed he approached the area on bicycle, which aligned with

641
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:39.719
<v Speaker 1>surveillance footage captured earlier that morning showing a rider heading

642
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:43.599
<v Speaker 1>towards her street, and by the time Jennifer arrived home

643
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:47.920
<v Speaker 1>at eight am, he was already there waiting. According to

644
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:51.360
<v Speaker 1>the reconstruction, he had entered the property and waited, and

645
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.960
<v Speaker 1>when Jennifer pulled into the garage and exited her vehicle,

646
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:59.320
<v Speaker 1>the attack occurred. Shortly after. Based on the evidence found

647
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:04.679
<v Speaker 1>at the scene, investigators believed she was overpowered quickly. Zip

648
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.760
<v Speaker 1>ties were likely used to restrain her, and the extent

649
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:12.199
<v Speaker 1>of the blood indicated that the injuries she sustained were severe.

650
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Investigators believed that after the attack, he cleaned up some

651
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:20.119
<v Speaker 1>of the scene in the garage. Paper towels were used

652
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.840
<v Speaker 1>in large quantities, and areas of the scene had been

653
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.000
<v Speaker 1>wiped down, though not nearly thoroughly enough to remove the evidence. Then,

654
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:30.880
<v Speaker 1>once the process was done, attention to turn towards removing

655
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer from the property. The reconstruction then placed her inside

656
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.719
<v Speaker 1>her own vehicle, the suburban, which was then driven away

657
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:43.920
<v Speaker 1>from the house at ten twenty five a m. That

658
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:46.679
<v Speaker 1>movement aligned with surveillance footage showing the vehicle leaving the

659
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.920
<v Speaker 1>property during that window. Now, at some point after leaving Buchanan,

660
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.920
<v Speaker 1>investigators believed that Jennifer was transferred from that suburban into

661
00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:59.079
<v Speaker 1>the Toyota to Coma. That red truck that was borrowed

662
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:03.159
<v Speaker 1>and the suburbs was then abandoned near Wavennee Park, where

663
00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 1>it was later recovered. The Tacoma meanwhile continued moving. Later

664
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.199
<v Speaker 1>that day, a surveillance footage would show it was used

665
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:14.960
<v Speaker 1>during the series of stops in Hartford, where the items

666
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:17.400
<v Speaker 1>connected to the crime scene were disposed of in those

667
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.800
<v Speaker 1>garbage bags, things including the bloody clothing, the cleaning materials,

668
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:26.320
<v Speaker 1>and so on so forth. Investigators also identified additional steps

669
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 1>that suggested there was an effort to eliminate more evidence.

670
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.719
<v Speaker 1>The Toyota Tacoma was later cleaned, including a paid car wash,

671
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and parts of the interior were altered, including the replacements

672
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:44.079
<v Speaker 1>of seats, but still, despite those efforts, traces of Jennifer's

673
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:48.679
<v Speaker 1>blood were still recovered from the vehicle as well. Now,

674
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:53.079
<v Speaker 1>taken together, the reconstruction provided a very continuous sequence of

675
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:57.199
<v Speaker 1>events connected the early morning movements, the attacks inside the garage,

676
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and the removal of Jennifer from her own home, plus

677
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the disposal of evidence later that day. What it did

678
00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:09.440
<v Speaker 1>not provide, unfortunately, was a final location. And despite the

679
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:12.960
<v Speaker 1>details of the reconstruction, and despite the amounts of evidence recovered,

680
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer herself was never found.

681
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Seriously, her body has never been found.

682
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:26.239
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer has never been found. Her remains have never been found.

683
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Like you're telling me that this frickin' guy that oh okay,

684
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.000
<v Speaker 2>this is making me very This part is pissing me off.

685
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Bake time. I mean, the whole story's pissing me off.

686
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:39.599
<v Speaker 2>But the fact that this is like the this. You

687
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.440
<v Speaker 2>guys have kids together, Yeah, and you're not allowing the

688
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:44.800
<v Speaker 2>kids to put their mother to rest.

689
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I told you. At the very beginning, I said

690
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:50.519
<v Speaker 1>there was a mystery to this, and in the intro

691
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:54.199
<v Speaker 1>I even said and one question that still hasn't been

692
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:56.400
<v Speaker 1>answered is where is Jennifer.

693
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, the only thing that would explain this is if

694
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:00.760
<v Speaker 2>he was dead as well, because if he is literally

695
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.599
<v Speaker 2>just hiding this, holy frickin' crap, I'm pissed.

696
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:08.039
<v Speaker 1>I can tell you pissed.

697
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:11.639
<v Speaker 2>Also, I have absolutely no idea what the draw is.

698
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:13.199
<v Speaker 2>What's her name? Freakin Michelle?

699
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:13.920
<v Speaker 1>The draw?

700
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.079
<v Speaker 2>Her draw is to him? Right?

701
00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

702
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:21.039
<v Speaker 2>I see is going about killing his ex wife who

703
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.559
<v Speaker 2>really hasn't done anything, and she still just wants to

704
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.719
<v Speaker 2>be with this guy, Like, are you kidding me that?

705
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:28.880
<v Speaker 2>If that isn't a red flag, I don't know what

706
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:29.400
<v Speaker 2>the hell is?

707
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 1>No shit, I mean, I think they're a match made

708
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.920
<v Speaker 1>in heaven. Maybe who knows a couple of douche canoes?

709
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:38.119
<v Speaker 2>No kidding?

710
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.679
<v Speaker 1>Now. On June first, twenty nineteen, over a week after

711
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:47.199
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer initially disappeared, Fotus and Michelle were officially arrested. The

712
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:50.239
<v Speaker 1>initial charges were not for murder, though, but for tampering

713
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:55.360
<v Speaker 1>with or fabricating physical evidence and for hindering prosecution. At

714
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:57.880
<v Speaker 1>that stage, investigators were working with what they could to

715
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:00.639
<v Speaker 1>prove immediately, you know, while can you need to build

716
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.199
<v Speaker 1>a larger case in the time to come. But Fotis

717
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.679
<v Speaker 1>and Michelle, of course, they pleaded not guilty. However, as

718
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:11.119
<v Speaker 1>the legal process began, Potus took a different approach than

719
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:14.880
<v Speaker 1>many in his position might have because, rather than staying quiet,

720
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:18.000
<v Speaker 1>he made the decision to speak publicly. Because this guy

721
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:21.840
<v Speaker 1>clearly has a confidence of arrogance around him, so he

722
00:42:21.960 --> 00:42:23.639
<v Speaker 1>decided he's going to talk about it.

723
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if I want to know what

724
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:26.480
<v Speaker 2>he has to say.

725
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, in interviews and statements, he acknowledged how he was

726
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:33.519
<v Speaker 1>being perceived, but he pushed back against it. He basically

727
00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:36.199
<v Speaker 1>said that he understood why people saw him in this

728
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.920
<v Speaker 1>negative light, but he maintained that he had nothing to

729
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:40.639
<v Speaker 1>do with Jennifer's disappearance whatsoever.

730
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but there's a lot of evidence you know saying

731
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:44.920
<v Speaker 2>that you did.

732
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but at this time a lot of that evidence

733
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:51.519
<v Speaker 1>wasn't public, okay now. He even went as far as

734
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:55.119
<v Speaker 1>to suggest that she maybe had staged her own disappearance,

735
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:58.960
<v Speaker 1>referencing a scenario very similar to the novel and film

736
00:42:59.119 --> 00:43:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Gone Girl. So the idea was that she planned everything herself,

737
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:06.000
<v Speaker 1>leaving behind the evidence to frame him.

738
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I don't know her very well, but that

739
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:11.039
<v Speaker 2>does not seem like something that she would do.

740
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:15.079
<v Speaker 1>No, definitely not now. His attorney also spoke out, arguing

741
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:18.400
<v Speaker 1>that the timeline made it unlikely that Photos could have

742
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:21.360
<v Speaker 1>committed the crime. But I love that word unlikely, because

743
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:24.559
<v Speaker 1>you know what, there's always room for doubt. Right now.

744
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.679
<v Speaker 1>They pointed to what they described as an extensive alibi

745
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 1>and suggested that the accusations did not align with the

746
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.840
<v Speaker 1>available facts. But as the months went on, the legal

747
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:39.079
<v Speaker 1>situation became more and more serious. In September of twenty nineteen,

748
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.559
<v Speaker 1>Photos of Michelle were arrested again on additional charges related

749
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.800
<v Speaker 1>to evidence tampering, which of course is where it comes

750
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.239
<v Speaker 1>with finding the things in the garbage and stuff, right.

751
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:51.320
<v Speaker 1>And then in January of twenty twenty, after months of investigation,

752
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:55.119
<v Speaker 1>and the accumulation of evidence. Authorities took the next step

753
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:59.039
<v Speaker 1>and they were officially charged with murder, capital murder, and kidnapping.

754
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:03.079
<v Speaker 2>This guy just disgusts me.

755
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:06.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I should correct myself there, I said they.

756
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Fotus was charged with murder, capital murder and kidnapping Michelle, however,

757
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.880
<v Speaker 1>and a third individual named Kent Mahini, which is a

758
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:18.079
<v Speaker 1>local attorney and longtime associate of Fotus, while they were

759
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:22.840
<v Speaker 1>both charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Now, by January

760
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.880
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, the case had reached a point where everything

761
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:29.760
<v Speaker 1>was beginning to close in. The investigation had been ongoing

762
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:32.400
<v Speaker 1>for months. At this point, the timeline had been built,

763
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.840
<v Speaker 1>the charges had escalated, and Potus was now facing the

764
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.480
<v Speaker 1>most serious accusations possible, and the case was moving towards

765
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:43.519
<v Speaker 1>a trial where the evidence would be tested in court. However,

766
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.760
<v Speaker 1>it never made it that far COVID. It was January

767
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:52.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty eighth, twenty twenty, when Fotus failed to appear for

768
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:56.639
<v Speaker 1>a scheduled emergency bail hearing. He didn't show up, and

769
00:44:56.760 --> 00:45:00.480
<v Speaker 1>concern shifted quickly, and officers were sent to his home

770
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.320
<v Speaker 1>in Farmington to check on him. When they arrived, they

771
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:07.320
<v Speaker 1>found him in his garage. He was inside his vehicle

772
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:11.159
<v Speaker 1>and was unresponsive. A hose had been connected from the

773
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:14.320
<v Speaker 1>exhaust of his running car and the space had filled

774
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:19.519
<v Speaker 1>with carbon monoxide. Officers broke in removed him from his

775
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:23.360
<v Speaker 1>vehicle and began CPR before transporting him to the hospital.

776
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.760
<v Speaker 1>He was still alive, but he was in very critical condition.

777
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:34.199
<v Speaker 1>But then two days later, on January thirtieth, he died. Okay,

778
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.000
<v Speaker 1>you literally said it earlier. If he's not if he's

779
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:42.639
<v Speaker 1>still alive, like he better have a reasonable Yeah. I

780
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:44.320
<v Speaker 1>wanted to say something so bad when you.

781
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.599
<v Speaker 2>Said it, but well, I mean, okay, there are other people,

782
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:52.519
<v Speaker 2>well maybe not, I guess. I I'm just assuming Michelle

783
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:54.400
<v Speaker 2>would know where the body is, but I guess she

784
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.519
<v Speaker 2>may not have. But this guy, like way to just

785
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:01.079
<v Speaker 2>put your kids through the frickin' ringer, no shit, Like

786
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:06.000
<v Speaker 2>you're just destroying their life. Yeah, basically, I don't even

787
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.360
<v Speaker 2>know how you would move forward from this as a child. Yes,

788
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:12.519
<v Speaker 2>it would be tough, you could, but you're never going

789
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:13.559
<v Speaker 2>to be the same obviously.

790
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:15.480
<v Speaker 1>No, There's going to be a lot that comes along

791
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.920
<v Speaker 1>with this, and he being the asshole that he is,

792
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:21.920
<v Speaker 1>he put that on his kids, Jeez. Now, before he

793
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:26.440
<v Speaker 1>did commit suicide, he had left a handwritten note. In it,

794
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:29.639
<v Speaker 1>he maintained his innocence. He wrote that he had nothing

795
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:32.840
<v Speaker 1>to do with Jennifer's disappearance and stated that Michelle and

796
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:37.280
<v Speaker 1>Kent Mahiney with the other associate, were also not involved.

797
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.360
<v Speaker 1>He expressed frustration with a legal process. He said he

798
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:42.440
<v Speaker 1>refused to spend more time in jail for something he

799
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:45.599
<v Speaker 1>claimed he didn't do. But now with his death, the

800
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:49.000
<v Speaker 1>case was changing again. The charges against him could no

801
00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:51.840
<v Speaker 1>longer move forward in the central figure of the prosecution

802
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.280
<v Speaker 1>theory was now gone, and with him went the possibility

803
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:57.599
<v Speaker 1>of a trial that might have proved a direct answer

804
00:46:58.039 --> 00:46:59.880
<v Speaker 1>on what had happened to Jennifer, the very thing you

805
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:04.679
<v Speaker 1>concerned about. But thankfully the evidence did not disappear with him,

806
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.679
<v Speaker 1>and neither did the case. Prosecutors filed what is called

807
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:11.480
<v Speaker 1>a null prosecute. I hope I got that right. It

808
00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:15.360
<v Speaker 1>is a Latin term meaning to be unwilling to pursue,

809
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.800
<v Speaker 1>which is a formal ending of the criminal case against him,

810
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:22.679
<v Speaker 1>because well, without him, nothing more could be done. Right,

811
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:26.039
<v Speaker 1>It was not an acquittal or a statement on the

812
00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:29.239
<v Speaker 1>evidence though it was a simple recognition that a prosecution

813
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.920
<v Speaker 1>cannot proceed against someone who is no longer alive. They

814
00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:36.840
<v Speaker 1>cannot be in court, it cannot happen. Even so, the

815
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.840
<v Speaker 1>investigation itself did not stop. The focus shifted to the

816
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.920
<v Speaker 1>others who had been charged in connection with Jennifer's disappearance,

817
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:48.079
<v Speaker 1>being Michelle Treconis, who had been arrested alongside Potus early

818
00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:50.599
<v Speaker 1>in the case and was now facing the prospect of

819
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:55.039
<v Speaker 1>standing trial without him. Then also Kent Mahinny, that friend

820
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and attorney who had also been charged in conspiracy, which

821
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:01.239
<v Speaker 1>essentially was meaning he was involved in the planning and

822
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:04.679
<v Speaker 1>he remained part of the legal process as well. As

823
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the case continued forward, the role each person played became

824
00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:12.559
<v Speaker 1>more defined. For Michelle, the focus it remained on her

825
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.639
<v Speaker 1>actions during and after the events of May twenty fourth.

826
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Investigators had already tied her to the timeline through surveillance footage,

827
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:24.639
<v Speaker 1>phone activity, and her own statements. Then there was the

828
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:28.280
<v Speaker 1>use of Photus's phone to create that alibi, her presence

829
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:31.679
<v Speaker 1>during the disposal of evidence in Hartford, and the inconsistencies.

830
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:34.440
<v Speaker 1>All of it made a very strong case against her.

831
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.239
<v Speaker 1>From a hinny, the allegations centered on the planning rather

832
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:42.280
<v Speaker 1>than the direct involvement. See investigators had uncovered evidence suggesting

833
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.639
<v Speaker 1>that he had knowledge of and may have participated in

834
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 1>discussions related to the crime. At one point, they even

835
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.800
<v Speaker 1>found a shallow grave that had been discovered on the

836
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:56.239
<v Speaker 1>property connected to him, containing items such as lime and

837
00:48:56.320 --> 00:49:00.679
<v Speaker 1>a tarp, which investigators believed could have been intended for

838
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:06.039
<v Speaker 1>the disposal of a body. However, as the legal process continued,

839
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:10.400
<v Speaker 1>the charges against Mahinny were eventually reduced. The state ultimately

840
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:14.320
<v Speaker 1>pursued a lesser charge of interfering with an officer rather

841
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.800
<v Speaker 1>than conspiracy to commit murder. He later pled guilty to

842
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:20.880
<v Speaker 1>that reduced charge and received a sentence that amounted to

843
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:25.960
<v Speaker 1>time already served in jail for Jennifer's family, though that

844
00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:29.800
<v Speaker 1>outcome did not resolve the larger questions, I mean, where

845
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:33.000
<v Speaker 1>was she right? In statements made after the resolution of

846
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:36.559
<v Speaker 1>this case, they made it clear that while they supported

847
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:39.639
<v Speaker 1>the decision made by prosecutors, they did not believe it

848
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:43.719
<v Speaker 1>reflected the full extent of what had occurred. They maintained

849
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:46.320
<v Speaker 1>that Jennifer had been a victim of a planned and

850
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:49.920
<v Speaker 1>deliberate act, and that others may still hold information about

851
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:54.079
<v Speaker 1>what had happened to her and where she might be now.

852
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:57.679
<v Speaker 1>For Michelle's trial, it began in January of twenty twenty

853
00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:00.440
<v Speaker 1>four years after the morning of May twenty nine, nineteen.

854
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Prosecutors presented the case step by step, laying out the

855
00:50:05.480 --> 00:50:08.280
<v Speaker 1>sequence of events, the physical evidence, the actions that followed

856
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the attack, all of it. They showed the jury the

857
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.360
<v Speaker 1>surveillance footage from Hartford where Michelle was seated in the

858
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:17.360
<v Speaker 1>passenger seat as black trash bags were discarded across multiple

859
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:22.559
<v Speaker 1>locations with evidence and her DNA inside. They presented those

860
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.639
<v Speaker 1>items recovered from the bags, the clothing, the materials that

861
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:28.800
<v Speaker 1>were used for cleaning, and they connected them right back

862
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:33.039
<v Speaker 1>to what was found inside the garage. They also focused

863
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:36.119
<v Speaker 1>on the fake alibi, showing that she had used Photos's

864
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:39.280
<v Speaker 1>phone during key parts of that morning, creating the appearance

865
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 1>that he was somewhere else. Investigators explained how that activity

866
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.920
<v Speaker 1>fit into the broader timeline and how it conflicted with

867
00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:50.599
<v Speaker 1>the physical evidence from the home and movements of the vehicles.

868
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Jurors were shown how her interview statements had changed, how

869
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:59.559
<v Speaker 1>certain details had been corrected or withdrawn, and how her

870
00:50:59.559 --> 00:51:03.400
<v Speaker 1>account of the day had not remained consistent as more

871
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:08.400
<v Speaker 1>information was becoming known. The handwritten notes outlining the version

872
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:11.519
<v Speaker 1>of events what investigators had described as the alibi scripts.

873
00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:14.920
<v Speaker 1>They were also presented, showing that the story had been

874
00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:19.760
<v Speaker 1>told falsely and was constructed rather than retold. The defense,

875
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.840
<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, argued that the evidence did not

876
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.719
<v Speaker 1>prove that she had known what had happened or that

877
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:28.360
<v Speaker 1>she had participated in the murder itself. They pointed to

878
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.119
<v Speaker 1>gaps in the case, including the absence of Jennifer's body,

879
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.559
<v Speaker 1>and challenged the interpretation of the evidence presented by the prosecution.

880
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:38.840
<v Speaker 1>But after both sides were done presenting their case well,

881
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:43.519
<v Speaker 1>the jury needed to make a decision. In March of

882
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:48.920
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four, the jury found Michelle Treconis guilty on

883
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 1>all counts, including conspiracy to commit murder, evidence tampering, and

884
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 1>hindering prosecution. She was sentenced to serve fourteen and a

885
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:01.719
<v Speaker 1>half years in prison within aditional five years of probation

886
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:05.440
<v Speaker 1>after that, marking the first full conviction in the case

887
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:07.760
<v Speaker 1>that had begun nearly five years.

888
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Earlier, but still not near enough.

889
00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:11.599
<v Speaker 1>Not nearly enough.

890
00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is not right in any way, but

891
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:19.559
<v Speaker 2>it makes sense I bet you anything that one of

892
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:22.960
<v Speaker 2>them at least knows where the body is. But why

893
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:25.159
<v Speaker 2>would they say, because then that's just going to make

894
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:28.440
<v Speaker 2>them look way more guilty. Right, So there's just no

895
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:30.880
<v Speaker 2>way it's going to come out, which is exactly horrible.

896
00:52:31.159 --> 00:52:33.400
<v Speaker 1>The only way I think anything would ever come out

897
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:35.840
<v Speaker 1>if it does, because it still paints them in a

898
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:39.280
<v Speaker 1>bad light, is if a statute of limitations comes out. Now,

899
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:41.920
<v Speaker 1>in this case, when she does get out of prison

900
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.199
<v Speaker 1>or something like that, she could argue that, you know what,

901
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:47.719
<v Speaker 1>she was found guilty and she paid her dues. She

902
00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:51.639
<v Speaker 1>did not murder, but she does know these things, she

903
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.679
<v Speaker 1>paid her due, she you know what it's done, So

904
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:57.159
<v Speaker 1>she could say, but I doubt she ever will.

905
00:52:57.280 --> 00:53:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, clearly these people aren't great, so why

906
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:04.400
<v Speaker 2>would they Clearly they're not right, so why would we

907
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:06.679
<v Speaker 2>expect them to all of a sudden do something good.

908
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:11.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, guilt does get to people rarely, but it does.

909
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:11.800
<v Speaker 2>Ken.

910
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:17.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Now, the legal process reached its conclusion. The case

911
00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:20.840
<v Speaker 1>had answers, but not the one that mattered most. Jennifer's

912
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:24.039
<v Speaker 1>body was still missing, and it still is to this day.

913
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:28.840
<v Speaker 1>She was officially declared dead in twenty twenty three years

914
00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:31.280
<v Speaker 1>after she was last seen walking back into her home,

915
00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:34.760
<v Speaker 1>and though that declaration brought a form of legal closure,

916
00:53:35.199 --> 00:53:37.159
<v Speaker 1>it didn't resolve what her family had been living with

917
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:40.960
<v Speaker 1>since the very beginning. There was still no recovery, no

918
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.679
<v Speaker 1>confirmed location, no final understanding where she had been taken

919
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:49.280
<v Speaker 1>after leaving that garage. For her five children, the outcome

920
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:51.360
<v Speaker 1>of the case did not change would have been lost either.

921
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:54.239
<v Speaker 1>In the span of less than a year, they lost

922
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:57.239
<v Speaker 1>both of their parents, one to a disappearance that was

923
00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:00.559
<v Speaker 1>never fully resolved and the other to his own actions

924
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:04.199
<v Speaker 1>before the case could be tried in court. They were

925
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:07.840
<v Speaker 1>ultimately taken in and raised by Jennifer's mother, moving forward

926
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.840
<v Speaker 1>in a life shaped by something they did not choose

927
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:14.800
<v Speaker 1>and could not control. Over time, they have spoken out

928
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:17.800
<v Speaker 1>about what they had lost and what it meant, not

929
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.119
<v Speaker 1>just the absence of their mother, but the way it unfolded,

930
00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the anger, the confusion, the lasting impact of growing up

931
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:28.320
<v Speaker 1>without clear answers, and how it has remained part of

932
00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:31.519
<v Speaker 1>their lives and something they were forced to deal with.

933
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer's family has continued to speak out to In statements

934
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:39.079
<v Speaker 1>released years after her disappearance, they have made it clear

935
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:43.159
<v Speaker 1>that they believed what happened to her was planned and

936
00:54:43.360 --> 00:54:47.199
<v Speaker 1>very much so deliberate. They have also said they believe

937
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:50.280
<v Speaker 1>there are still people who know where they have buried her,

938
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:52.880
<v Speaker 1>where she was taken or disposed of, people who could

939
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:58.639
<v Speaker 1>provide information about where she is. Investigators continue to follow leeds,

940
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:03.559
<v Speaker 1>returning to pies and conducting searches long after the initial investigation,

941
00:55:03.760 --> 00:55:06.559
<v Speaker 1>but each search has come up empty and the most

942
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:10.599
<v Speaker 1>basic question has yet to be answered, Where is Jennifer.

943
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Dulos was a mother. She was a writer and

944
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:20.159
<v Speaker 1>a person who built her life around her children. The

945
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.400
<v Speaker 1>case that followed her disappearance became widely known, but for

946
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:26.440
<v Speaker 1>those closest to her, it has never been about the

947
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:29.960
<v Speaker 1>case itself. It has been about her and about the

948
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:35.360
<v Speaker 1>absence that has still not been resolved. And even now,

949
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:39.599
<v Speaker 1>years later, that absence remains, with Jennifer Dulos listed as

950
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:45.840
<v Speaker 1>officially dead and still missing. And that's a story of

951
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Jennifer Dulos.

952
00:55:48.679 --> 00:55:53.800
<v Speaker 2>This one disappoints the shit out of me. Understandable, I

953
00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:56.239
<v Speaker 2>feel like you've avoided eye contact for a little bit

954
00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:58.760
<v Speaker 2>because I'm just like freaking pissed.

955
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't want you to yell at.

956
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:05.199
<v Speaker 2>Me like, holy frick, I don't know. I feel so

957
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:12.119
<v Speaker 2>so many like emotions like disappointed, furious, sad, confused. It's

958
00:56:12.199 --> 00:56:14.039
<v Speaker 2>just it's yeah, this one.

959
00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:19.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Frank, I do hope that one day her

960
00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:20.320
<v Speaker 1>remains recovered.

961
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:24.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that would be great, Like, I mean,

962
00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:27.079
<v Speaker 2>it's not going to change anything that's happened here, but

963
00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:30.440
<v Speaker 2>at least they'll be like a site where the kids

964
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:35.039
<v Speaker 2>could go and you know, visit her or to rest, right,

965
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.559
<v Speaker 2>And because that's that would really be on your mind, wondering,

966
00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:41.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, where, like where could she be, where could

967
00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:44.360
<v Speaker 2>her body be? Like I don't yeah, that would be

968
00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:50.440
<v Speaker 2>a terrible feeling. Yeah, so holy Okay, I.

969
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Hope regrets, I hope guilt, I hope something. I hope

970
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.639
<v Speaker 1>demons get to Michelle in prison and she she says something.

971
00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:00.840
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, I guess there is obviously the possibility

972
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:05.320
<v Speaker 2>that someone could stumble across it to somewhere, right, I

973
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:05.719
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

974
00:57:06.039 --> 00:57:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I have a feeling that's unlikely.

975
00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I really well, especially with time passing, right, if there

976
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:16.320
<v Speaker 2>was a grave of sorts, it's gonna with time look

977
00:57:16.559 --> 00:57:18.079
<v Speaker 2>less and less like one.

978
00:57:18.519 --> 00:57:20.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. So I don't know. But I mean,

979
00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:24.400
<v Speaker 1>look at it in this perspective. How many people have

980
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:28.480
<v Speaker 1>a have an attorney helping them plan a murder.

981
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, that's kind of weird. I thought that was

982
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:32.119
<v Speaker 2>super odd.

983
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:36.119
<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, I'm not saying he paid the attorney

984
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:38.880
<v Speaker 1>in any sort of capacity, but he clearly has connections

985
00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:42.559
<v Speaker 1>with this attorney, and we know he had money. With

986
00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:47.000
<v Speaker 1>money and power in that situation, you can do a lot.

987
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.840
<v Speaker 1>So who's to say that, you know what, he didn't

988
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:54.239
<v Speaker 1>have very good connections. He has a real estate company

989
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:58.000
<v Speaker 1>or whatever he was working with. Maybe he disposed of

990
00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:00.239
<v Speaker 1>it remains at someone's.

991
00:57:59.719 --> 00:58:02.079
<v Speaker 2>Prim or built. I think it was a built. It

992
00:58:02.119 --> 00:58:05.880
<v Speaker 2>was building. Yeah, we're building homes, so yeah, right there.

993
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:09.800
<v Speaker 1>So maybe she's in someone's foundation of a home right

994
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:11.079
<v Speaker 1>now and we will never know.

995
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Gosh.

996
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.159
<v Speaker 1>Now that's clearly just speculation.

997
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's it's quite a large possibility.

998
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:23.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Most people in these situations, they're like, oh, I

999
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.360
<v Speaker 1>don't have the resources. It was just anger, you know whatever,

1000
00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:30.639
<v Speaker 1>and it's there. They dump them somewhere twenty kilometers or

1001
00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:33.079
<v Speaker 1>a few miles away, or dig him in their backyard.

1002
00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:38.440
<v Speaker 1>This guy had a he had much more resources at

1003
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.760
<v Speaker 1>his disposal and the possibilities are much greater.

1004
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, and did this guy actually think that he was

1005
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:45.000
<v Speaker 2>going to get away with this?

1006
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:49.599
<v Speaker 1>I guess so, even in death, he's thinking he's getting

1007
00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:52.519
<v Speaker 1>away with it. That's how he's escaping this.

1008
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:53.679
<v Speaker 2>He's arrogant.

1009
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:56.519
<v Speaker 1>He's self deleted, thinking, oh, I'm just going to write

1010
00:58:56.559 --> 00:59:00.599
<v Speaker 1>a suicide note clear my name and those others who

1011
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:04.320
<v Speaker 1>are also associated with it. And because I killed myself,

1012
00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.559
<v Speaker 1>it's probably gonna look, you know, a little more believable,

1013
00:59:06.960 --> 00:59:11.559
<v Speaker 1>and it'll all be good. No, that's not the case.

1014
00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just wild that somewhat. I think that someone could

1015
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:23.679
<v Speaker 2>be is arrogant the right word, so deluded, delusional to

1016
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:27.960
<v Speaker 2>think that this would just they could just do this

1017
00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:29.960
<v Speaker 2>and go on living their life.

1018
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:31.599
<v Speaker 1>I think there's a lot of words I can use

1019
00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:33.960
<v Speaker 1>to describe it, and I'm not even talking about profanity,

1020
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.400
<v Speaker 1>because trust me, that's a whole pfora I could probably

1021
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:39.400
<v Speaker 1>pull up like a library, or I could write a

1022
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:41.280
<v Speaker 1>book about all the names I want to call these people.

1023
00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:44.320
<v Speaker 1>But I think there's like arrogant. I think it's a

1024
00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:47.400
<v Speaker 1>great one. I think he's narcissistic. I think his suicide

1025
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:50.920
<v Speaker 1>note is nothing but gaslighting. As well, those sort of things,

1026
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:55.519
<v Speaker 1>the terms on his personality, the behaviors, it's extensive.

1027
00:59:56.320 --> 01:00:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, Jennifer spent her the majority of her life

1028
01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:05.159
<v Speaker 2>raising the family that they wanted, right, So she sacrificed,

1029
01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:08.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, having a career or whatever, let

1030
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:11.239
<v Speaker 2>him do that while she raised all the kids. And

1031
01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:15.599
<v Speaker 2>this is what he returned, like doesn't in return.

1032
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And all she wanted was that family, that love,

1033
01:00:19.079 --> 01:00:23.559
<v Speaker 1>that home. And she wrote so much about her home life,

1034
01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:27.679
<v Speaker 1>her experience, her kids, and in the separation, he was

1035
01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:29.079
<v Speaker 1>trying to take that from her.

1036
01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Which I hope that the kids, I mean, I'm sure

1037
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:35.039
<v Speaker 2>they do, but have some of that writing, you know,

1038
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:38.559
<v Speaker 2>of hers that they can kind of like look back

1039
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:40.679
<v Speaker 2>on and read and remember her and stuff.

1040
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:41.639
<v Speaker 1>So I hope so too.

1041
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1042
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:46.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you guys for being here. I'm just going

1043
01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:49.599
<v Speaker 1>to say a little cheers to Jennifer. Hopefully she gets

1044
01:00:49.639 --> 01:00:53.000
<v Speaker 1>found one day, and if she doesn't, I hope she

1045
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:56.239
<v Speaker 1>rests in peace. But thank you for being here. Don't

1046
01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:58.440
<v Speaker 1>forget to look at the description of this podcast. We

1047
01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:01.000
<v Speaker 1>have website, we have social media is if you want

1048
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.480
<v Speaker 1>to send us your thoughts and opinion on this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>please feel free. We're an independent podcast. We get to

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<v Speaker 1>do this because people like you are here supporting us,

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<v Speaker 1>so thank you so much, and until next time, stay

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<v Speaker 1>wicked a bo
