WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.480 Oh ye is bot, it's show time. People say good 2 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:10.560 money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they are cold sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.719 hot popcorn, and no monsters. In the Protection Booth, everyone 5 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:19.199 pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:21.079 Don it off. 7 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:50.399 Time It flows differently in the Underland. Down here, there 8 00:00:50.439 --> 00:01:00.159 are no minutes or hours, only epochs and AONs. Some 9 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.159 called this deep time, the dizzy expands of the Earth's 10 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:17.560 history that stretches away from the present. But for those 11 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:23.799 who descend, deep time is also another way of seeing, 12 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:38.560 one in which things that seemed inert come alive. Stone flows, 13 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:51.079 the earth has tides, and eyes breeze. 14 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.040 Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth. 15 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:03.319 I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, I am 16 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.920 talking with Rob Pettitt all about his new film Underland. 17 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.520 This film recently played at the Tribeca Film Festival, and 18 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.240 we'll be playing some other fests as we go along. 19 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.360 Definitely keep an eye out for it. It is pretty amazing. 20 00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:20.039 I think you will really get a kick out of it. 21 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.719 I know that I did. Thanks so much for listening, 22 00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:24.960 and I hope you enjoyed the interview. Can you tell 23 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:26.520 me a little bit of your background as far as 24 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:27.680 how you got into filmmaking. 25 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.120 So, my dad's a filmmaker. So I always grew up 26 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:35.520 with all sorts of strange cameras and bits of technology 27 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.520 lying around the house from the age of about twelve, 28 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:41.280 where I used to turn off family holidays into the 29 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:45.960 sort of nightmare sort of kupbreak style shoots I give 30 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.240 people there of gone holiday, but I him will learn 31 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.759 lines and get up at seven in the morning, and 32 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:55.080 would you'd have made a mystery. I didn't understand what 33 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.479 editing was. I didn't know you could edit films. I 34 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:01.319 thought everything was shot in sequence. Remember I remember doing 35 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:04.599 you know, we do it line by line, shot by shot, 36 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.520 which is sort of quite a pure way of making 37 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.000 a film, I think. But anyway, just sort of stayed 38 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:14.280 in that world and have always been interested in technology 39 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:18.599 as well, and how cameras have changed to So a 40 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:22.360 few years ago I was given a drone actually by 41 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:27.039 my uncle, my uncle Husta Linpa Well to this place 42 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.439 in the Poconos, and remember thinking, oh, this is an 43 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.439 interesting sort of way of seeing the earth. No one's 44 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:36.159 ever really sort of we haven't explored that strata of 45 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.800 airspace because it's sort of too low for helicopters, and 46 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:43.000 two highs of the sort of human case and made 47 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.240 us quite an experimental film called Upstream that follows the 48 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:48.240 course of a river all the way to its source 49 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.240 in a roundabout way. That's sort of what led to Underland. 50 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.960 He decided to go below instead of above, well, yeah, 51 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.039 to what to sort of follow the river from there? 52 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.400 Yeah, from the platter on the Cagaron platter above high 53 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.919 up in the Keangoon Mountains all the way down. I 54 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:07.800 mean it led our stream lego collaboration with Robert McFarland 55 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:10.000 and the writer of Bunderland, which is which is how 56 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:14.240 it sort of led, and his sort of literally career 57 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.759 it's been one of one of sort of deep mapping, 58 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:18.879 you know. He started at the summits of the mountains 59 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:23.040 and he's followed following things down down, down into the 60 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:25.160 into the nether. Yeah. 61 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:26.639 How did you meet mister McFarland. 62 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.160 Robert McFarland and I, Yeah, we started. I made a 63 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.800 little short film about him. Actually, it's for Granted magazine. 64 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:36.199 We met years and years ago and we sort of 65 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.079 stayed in touch. And when I was given this drone 66 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.319 and came back with this sort of strange footage from 67 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:45.759 the mountains. I remember thinking, oh, yeah, this is a 68 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.079 landscape that Rob McFarland has written a lot about me 69 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:51.920 and walked in a lot and it was last game 70 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:53.959 by associated with his work. So I sort of sent 71 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:57.319 him a video postcard of that expedition and he wrote 72 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.720 something for it, wrote some beautiful narration for and that 73 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:03.360 became a project called up Stream, which is also a 74 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:08.680 collaboration with the composer Houster Vocal Bottleman, and he had 75 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:13.519 around that time also just written Underland. And I remember 76 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.759 first reading Underland while I was here in the Bocalones 77 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:18.959 in Pennsylvania, and I sat on the end of the 78 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.120 Jeffy bike on Lake Proconal, and I remember being gripped 79 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.120 by the first line, which is the way into the 80 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.439 underland is through the riven trunk of an old ash tree. 81 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:31.639 And that ash tree was one. It's one that's real, 82 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.519 and it's one that I found. It grows from a 83 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.120 gentle hollow in the field in England, and it does 84 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.279 indeed had a split in the trunk, and that split 85 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.360 leads into a thirty three thousand foot long case system 86 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:47.360 and you crawled through the split in the trunk of 87 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:52.680 this tree and into another world really, and that case 88 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.800 system became a sort of portal for many of us 89 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:58.480 on the team into all these other worlds and all 90 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:02.000 these incredible places that that are explored by incredible people. 91 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:03.399 And the film sort of grew from that. 92 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:07.319 To see this world that we would never normally see 93 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:10.639 as such an eye opening experience. I mean it reminds 94 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.160 me a little bit of the Herzog Cave documentary, but 95 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.399 in such a different way. How is that experience for 96 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.560 you going inside of these caves and experiencing them and 97 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:23.079 especially having to I mean, how big of a crew 98 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:24.879 did you have to work with? 99 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:29.000 Well, we had an incredible team, utterly incredible. It's funny 100 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:34.439 you mentioned Van because one of our EPs, Andre Singer, 101 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.839 has produced I think it's how seventeen of Furness Films 102 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:40.360 and don It's also sort of sits on the board 103 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:42.920 with Sandbox as well or other production companies. So I 104 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:47.480 certainly felt the sort of presence of Werner and throughout 105 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:49.800 the film, and of course he's one of my sort 106 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:53.360 of cinematic heroes. And I remember when I try saw 107 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.920 FITZGERALDO and actually for us saw the making of FITZGERALDO 108 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.920 the documentary about it called Burton's Dreams. I remember thinking, 109 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.120 or there is something about the idea of taking the 110 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.439 camera into difficult places, taking the camera into environments that 111 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.040 are very indifferent to your desires his filmmakers, that feels 112 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.759 it feels sometimes like a sort of madness, but also 113 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.399 sometimes you know, it's it's one that's quite hard to resist. 114 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:19.439 It's a it's a pull that is quite hard to resist. 115 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.639 And that is essentially the central question of the film. 116 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:23.759 Why do we seek the void? 117 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:24.040 You know? 118 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.759 Why do we get into this pool, this strange song 119 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.040 that calls us downward? So in terms of recruiting a team, 120 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.920 I had to find people who also have that, saying 121 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:38.079 Paul or rather weren't so put off by the idea 122 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:42.240 of squeezing through narrow and wet caves that that they 123 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:44.800 would they wouldn't take a gig. I mean, we have 124 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.439 the most incredible production team, As I've said, it started 125 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:52.040 with Spring, which is run by Andre Singer, and with 126 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:54.800 Planet Optedless as well. So we had Lauren Greenwood are 127 00:07:54.920 --> 00:08:00.600 absolutely brilliant and interpret producer, and Sandbox as well. You 128 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:02.600 just sort of got it right from the beginning, and 129 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:06.600 did they let us very slowly build the team and 130 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.240 find the right people and the right collaborators. And I 131 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.519 remember when i'd first had our when I had my 132 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.920 first conversation with Rubin woodin Deshomp, a cinematographer. I remember thinking, 133 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:20.240 this is the guy, you know, I mean, his his work, 134 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.839 his eye, his craft is I think just unsurpassed. And 135 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.759 so we were headed to the ash tree before we 136 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:28.759 picked up a camera. We headed to the old ash 137 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.039 tree and we explored that casystem together with our camera assistant, 138 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.279 Rich Savage, to make sure that we were all going 139 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:37.759 to be comfortable underground, to learn to move underground, to 140 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:40.919 learn to move as a team underground. And then he 141 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.399 slowly started introducing a little bit more kit and a 142 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.279 bit more ambition, to the point where actually, you know, 143 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:50.200 we were often taking fourteen places of kit and these 144 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:53.799 places because it's dark and you've got to light it somehow. 145 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.679 So yeah, that's how it's all sort of grew. 146 00:08:57.519 --> 00:09:01.320 Just the logistics of that alone, lest of ben so tough. 147 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:03.919 I mean, did you have to wear special outfit, special shoes, 148 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.480 or you're that's slipping around down there, Like what do 149 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:07.960 you have to do to prepare for that. 150 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.639 So the film is sort of set in three principle 151 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:15.519 underground environments. We've got a cave system, We've got a 152 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:20.519 storm drain that actually laters sort of becomes an abandoned mine. 153 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:24.159 And we also have this Fidogs laboratory which is set 154 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:28.440 too kilometers beneath the surface of Ontario in Canada. So 155 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:32.720 there are three very different environments that required certainly different outfits, 156 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:37.399 different logistical approaches. In the cave systems absolutely how you're 157 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.559 wearing your sort of kitted up, and there was some 158 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.279 sort of vertical descents as well, so you're in harness 159 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:46.639 and all sorts of considerations that are incredible. Production team, 160 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:50.159 at least Lauren Greenwood, had to sort of constantly think about, 161 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:52.120 you know, how to keep people safe. It's one thing, 162 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:55.720 relatively easy thing to get people into a cave. It's 163 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.559 a much hard thing to get them out, to get 164 00:09:57.559 --> 00:10:00.159 them out. With the footage, we did feel often that 165 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:05.279 our journey as a team and the crew sort of 166 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:08.399 mirrored themetic journey that we were trying to tell the 167 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:10.919 story of, which is to descend into the underworld and 168 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:14.240 then to surface with treasure right, and that treasure in 169 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.879 our case was a set of images that would allow 170 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:19.559 us and sounds that would allow us to make and 171 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:22.159 tell a story. It was often the getting out that 172 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:25.360 was the more sort of challenging stuff in those instances. 173 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.360 The odd sort of flip side to that is that 174 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:32.399 the deepest place that we went was actually the one 175 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:36.480 that had the most human presence in the most infrastructure. 176 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:40.919 You go two kilometers down this vertical mind shaft through 177 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.519 some incredibly dusty tunnels which are full of a money nickel, 178 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:48.080 They're so full of all this very fine rock dust, 179 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.600 and then you walk into what is one of technically speaking, 180 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:57.200 the keenest places in the world. Then emits the equivalent 181 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.320 of a teaspoons worth of dust to pass through these 182 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.639 lapdoors over the course of an entire year. So you 183 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:10.039 then spend two to three hours sanitizing all your equipment, 184 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:12.879 cleaning every cooling fin of every bit of the camera 185 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:18.000 with swaps in order to protect the experiments that they're 186 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:20.879 running down there, experiments that might, you know, one day 187 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.039 solve the mysteries of the universe. So yeah, we had 188 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.240 to operate in a number of different environments and they 189 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:27.559 all require different approaches. 190 00:11:28.399 --> 00:11:30.399 How many people are you dealing with when you go 191 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:34.639 down in these environments? Is it like you cameraman, sound 192 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:39.879 person DP as well yourself? So how many, five, six, 193 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.279 ten Our. 194 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:44.519 Underground team would sort of drink and expand depending on 195 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.559 what sort of environment we were entering. When we were 196 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:54.759 following the incredible Ahaw speleological group in Mexico, that's Fatima 197 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:57.559 and her team of archaeologists, you know, they had a 198 00:11:57.559 --> 00:11:58.840 lot of support as well, and we had a lot 199 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.440 of surface support to we had to come up with 200 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:05.759 this incredibly convigated way of getting batteries back to the 201 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:07.559 surface for charging. You know, we're in the middle of 202 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:09.679 the jungle as well, so you know the sort of 203 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:11.799 logistics like that, and we needed a team to be 204 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.720 able to do the run from where we were deep 205 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.080 in the cave to take these dresses batteries out and 206 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:20.399 bring down the charged once in that So in those cases, 207 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:21.919 you know, you sort of look around and go, wow, 208 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:25.120 there's a twenty people with us. But in other cases, 209 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:28.320 like when we were exploring the storm drains that run 210 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:32.120 under the beneath the casinos in Las Vegas with Bradley Garrett, 211 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:36.320 the of Anick storer and writer roughly it's a brilliant mind, 212 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:41.000 brilliant person. We chest the team to as small as possible, 213 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:44.879 so we had myself, our dpe Rubin, William Deschamp, who 214 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:48.279 was also operating the camera as well as Rich Savage, 215 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.200 was our focused product and the sound recordist. So there 216 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.840 was four of us to us Bradley, that was about 217 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:55.279 as small as we could get it down to. 218 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:59.919 Obviously, I don't imagine you have any problems with claustrophobia. 219 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.799 No, and that was a precondition I think for being 220 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.480 able to work on the film. But that you know, 221 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:08.559 that said, there were moments, and there were moments on 222 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:13.080 some reki expeditions actually that were some of the trikets. 223 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:15.639 You know, there were some really difficult ones. Brended mine 224 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:19.000 got into difficulty when we were on an expedition together. 225 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:22.240 And it seems can go from fun to not fun 226 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.639 very very quickly, you know, in a matter of seconds, 227 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.960 and it becomes it turns from a reki into a 228 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.320 sort of extraction mission and then that takes. Yeah, those 229 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:32.120 sort of things take. 230 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:36.440 The tot just feels like, what's the most difficult documentary 231 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.759 I can make? This one sounds like it's pretty close 232 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:40.919 to it. 233 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:45.360 It's true. For those who know Rob McFarland's book on 234 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:49.559 which the film is based, there's there's a brilliant which 235 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:52.759 act is brilliant, But early on he talks about why 236 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.639 we why there exists as sort of punctural abhorrence for depth, 237 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.639 Why is it we aspire to hide? You know, even 238 00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.000 says how that's reflected in language. You know, to be 239 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:06.519 elevated or lifted up is preferable to being depressed. You know, 240 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:10.799 there's a sort of gravity to the language of sadness 241 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.759 or of Greece. We associate the underworld with all these 242 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:18.120 sort of terrible things, and I think part of it 243 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.600 is to do with how difficult and effortful it is 244 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.039 to go into the underworld. You can sink two feet 245 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.480 below the surface and already your your lines of sight 246 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:30.960 has stolen your as web says, your breath is squeezed 247 00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.440 from long society, that stolen from eyes, and so yeah, 248 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.720 it was insanely difficult, and that became that sort of 249 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.200 slowly started to dawn on us. Rapidly actually dawned on 250 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.440 as it's very dark, it's very in most of these places, 251 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.519 which draws up interesting creative questions. You know, we have 252 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:50.840 to deal with the question of, well, okay, we're not 253 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:53.399 going to have a film that's disbaby minutes of a 254 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:57.360 live screen, so what is the light then like? Because 255 00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.600 there has to be one, so we have to sort 256 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:03.600 of ask questions about, well, dramatically speaking, what is the 257 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:07.360 light source? Things like that. Other strange things sort of 258 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.639 started to happen. We'd put quite a lot of time 259 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.840 into rigging vertical descents, but shots that would go down 260 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.960 into the abyss, because we're already that feeling of being 261 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.600 pult down. But then we get to the surface and 262 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.639 realize it doesn't look like you're going down at all 263 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.799 because you have no special reference. You need falling water 264 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:29.480 in order to know which direction is are. So over 265 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.399 a period of time, we learned all these lessons about 266 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.799 things that translated to the screen and things that didn't, 267 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:37.759 and things that we hadn't thought about until we really 268 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:40.320 started going into some of these places. 269 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:42.960 That's like, you had to learn a lot while you 270 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:44.519 were actually making this film on the go. 271 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.200 That's right, it's learned a lot, but also unlearned things 272 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:52.159 that only seem to apply on the surface, and relearn 273 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.600 things that may not even be directly related to the image, 274 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.320 but are related to keeping yourselves safe, such as in 275 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.600 the storm train. Bradley was like, look, you've always got 276 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:06.039 to know which way the water would flow. You have 277 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:10.960 to know whether we're walking uphill or downhill, because if 278 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.159 there is a rainstorm and we do get caught in 279 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:16.879 a flood, we need to know and be pretty sure 280 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.879 that we're going to be flushed out, not flushed in 281 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.519 things like that. You know, it's like you've got to 282 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.240 learn all this new stuff, so quite a journey. 283 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.840 Once you capture all of this footage. What's your post 284 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:30.000 production process like? 285 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.440 The editing process on the film was, as you can 286 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:36.759 probably imagine, it was long. It was a winding path. 287 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.360 It involved a lot of patients from a lot of people. 288 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:44.039 I was very fortunate that the producers Lauren and Jess 289 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.919 and I should mention Darren and Harry from Provozoa who 290 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:51.279 were equally patient and bring in a holding a space 291 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:54.320 that was really like a It was a play space, 292 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:55.840 and it was one way we were sort of safe 293 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:59.080 to run lots of experiments, to fail and to better. 294 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.679 It took a long time. The process of editing really 295 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.480 was one of mapping. I would say, you know, I 296 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.680 was very clear from the beginning of the process that 297 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.960 after the title in the film, I wanted the camera 298 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:15.799 to stay underground, and I wanted us to go deeper 299 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.720 with all the protagonists. Yeah, so I wanted to break 300 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.680 these journeys and I wanted us to feel like we 301 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.519 were constantly moving down with them. I drew this sketch 302 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:29.279 right at the beginning, which was a bit like a vortex. 303 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:31.160 I wanted to seem to feel like a vortex to 304 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:35.400 the point where we sort of come to this understanding, right. 305 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:39.160 You know, each braid might start in its own reflective 306 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.839 irrespective field archaeology, theoretical physics, urban exploration, but really they 307 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:48.160 sort of all reached the same conclusion. So the question was, 308 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:50.200 it's not like we have another film that we can 309 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.000 sort of point out and go call that to our model. 310 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:54.480 So you know, it did take over a year of 311 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:58.200 putting things together as something spelled by the wayside, sadly, 312 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:01.799 as they do in the courvering room. We worked with 313 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:06.400 the most incredible editor, David Hill, who really understood not 314 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.640 just each journey, but understood the mythic arp, the vortex 315 00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:13.960 structure within which we wanted them all to sit. So 316 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:18.160 the short answer is lots of experimentation, lots of patients 317 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:20.680 for which I'm very grateful for. 318 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:24.599 Yeah, they have that space to explore the space of 319 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.559 the film as well as the space of the underground. 320 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:29.920 It has to be crucial for you exactly there. Yeah, 321 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:30.359 it was. 322 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.160 The sound mix and the music just really add to everything, 323 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:38.319 especially just that the isolation. But yet you know, the 324 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.640 music is kind of our companion at times. I appreciated 325 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:42.240 that as well. 326 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.000 Thank you saying yeah right from the you know, when 327 00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:49.640 we wrote the treatment for this film, I had said, 328 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:52.319 this is as much a journey into sound as it 329 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:57.440 is into image, because especially in that sort of first 330 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:03.640 third where you're plumb into this strange world and actually 331 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:07.000 what happens physically, I was very interested in the biophysical 332 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:09.240 sort of response, what the body, what the body does, 333 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.599 what happens to the senses when you go underground. We 334 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:16.160 wanted this to be a sensory film. Well, your ears compensate, 335 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:20.559 your hearing is heightened, and that was something that Supervising 336 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.880 sounded at a Yarkam sort of strong, really understood and 337 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.200 dived into. But to work with Hannah Peal on the 338 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:32.759 score was such a joyous thing. Hannah is unparalleled, unmatched 339 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.759 talent really and so generative. You know, she's so good 340 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.279 at just coming up with ideas, at getting a scene, 341 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:43.119 coming up with ideas the scene changes, because you can imagine, 342 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.160 things changed a lot. Hannah stayed with this process for 343 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.599 the four years that it took to make the film, 344 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:53.200 which is which is quite unusual for a directed composer collaboration. 345 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.720 You would usually sort of partner with the composer a 346 00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:59.559 little later when once the pictures settled you've hit picture 347 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.119 a lot. But Hannah was invested in this right from 348 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.880 the beginning. Should make stems. Sh'd come up with ideas, 349 00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.640 Joachima and I would work on those together, and David 350 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:09.319 and I would work on them together, would go back 351 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.920 to Hannah Rick. That's just a constant game of things evolving. 352 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.799 And Hannah also brought together the most incredible group of 353 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:22.559 musicians and we recorded the score live and that was 354 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.000 one of my favorite days during the whole process where 355 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.759 we were able to you know, there a song sheets 356 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:30.519 that said Underland score and come in just this some 357 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:34.559 of the world's most incredible musicians would then just bring 358 00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:36.519 it to life and yeah, I haven't heard a day 359 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.319 like that for a while. It's incredible. 360 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.119 What was it like findly singer with an audience. 361 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.279 Yeah, it was quite a thing of an audience because 362 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.599 you before we permitted at Tebecca, not many people had 363 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.119 seen the film. You know, you do a few screening 364 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.519 to sort of press in industry and people within like 365 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.640 within the team and so the extended team to sort 366 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:00.400 of get notes from people, but it really is it 367 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.519 was its first outing, and people was sort of I remember, 368 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.960 you know, there's a constriction point in the film about 369 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.319 halfway through whether strands tightened the physical sort of space 370 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:14.480 around the people in the film Titans, And I'd always 371 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.440 wandered that I'd wanted an audience to sort of feel that, 372 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.079 and I was sitting in the room that people seem 373 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:21.359 to be making me recognises. So it was a great 374 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:24.000 joy for us all to sit there and feel like, yeah, 375 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:26.960 you know, it's a it's a film and one that 376 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:31.440 we emerged with from the Jaws of the underworld sort 377 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:31.680 of thing. 378 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.160 Is there a good place for people to keep up 379 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:35.960 on the film and with you so they know where 380 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:36.400 it's playing. 381 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:41.240 I would say Sandbox website, Sandbox on Instagram. They are 382 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.119 Sandbox films are excellent at posting all the news. It's 383 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:50.160 going to be at DC Docs on Friday thirteenth, before 384 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:54.440 it's last two screenings at Tribecca this coming weekend, and 385 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.440 then who knows where next, but hopefully we'll get a 386 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.400 European premere and then I would like to be used 387 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.680 about where it might be durable, where people can see 388 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:04.240 it more widely. 389 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.079 I can't imagine seeing this on the big screen. It's 390 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:08.640 got to be such a treat. 391 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.720 Oh, I hope you get too goods. Yeah, bigger the 392 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:13.680 better at it. Yeah, I mean we shot it. We 393 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.720 shot it so cinema, Rubens dies so cinematic. You know, 394 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.640 we've mixed in in five to one and may who 395 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.359 noticed one day to be able to release an autos 396 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:25.319 as well. I sorry, we mixed the atmos. We've delivered 397 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:28.039 in five to one. But you know, we've designed this 398 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:30.599 and made this to be seen and experienced in the 399 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:32.920 most igmssive way that it can be, and I hope 400 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.839 people do get to see it in the cinema in 401 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:35.720