WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.359 The City of Fresno is considering a measure to ban 2 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.360 homeless encampments. And it's kind of interesting how this has 3 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:10.839 come to be. And it seems as though there's a 4 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:15.439 tidal wave breaking on the left in California as well 5 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:18.600 as the right. And it took a Supreme Court decision 6 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:23.519 to sort of allow this allow this almost to become acceptable. 7 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:28.320 A Supreme Court decision and Gavin Newsom, so, let me 8 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:29.519 explain what's going on. 9 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:30.719 So you've got the. 10 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:34.039 City of Fresno. City of Fresno is proposing an ordinance, 11 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:38.960 an ordinance that'll be enforced by the City Attorney's office. 12 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:42.039 So they're not going to put this on the County 13 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:44.520 DA's office, which I think is smart. The DA's office, 14 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:48.439 I think has so many and so much worse crimes 15 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:52.799 to prosecute that this is probably not something that's wise 16 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.280 to sort of place in their lap, although it looks 17 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.200 like the county might take up a measure like this. Also, 18 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.079 a county supervisor, Steve ran Out, says he was considering 19 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:08.159 an ordinance like this. Basically, the measure would impose up 20 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:10.599 to a year in jail and up to a one 21 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:21.200 thousand dollars fine for persons engaged in camping in public places. 22 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:26.760 So public places include, but are not limited to, sidewalks, streets, alleyways, 23 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:33.280 or other public spaces, city property, et cetera. So to 24 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:42.879 get rid of homeless encampments, now the knee jerk. I 25 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:46.519 don't want to get either of the two knee jerks. 26 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.000 I think there's a conservative knee jerk that I have 27 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.560 always been a little uncomfortable about with when dealing with 28 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:58.200 the homeless. And I think there are some conservatives who 29 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:01.719 might say that I'm soft or whatever, but whatever, I 30 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:08.080 don't care. These are human beings. These are human beings, yes, 31 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:12.639 who are making bad choices. But I feel like I 32 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:16.919 can't sit in church every Sunday and hear about, you know, 33 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:21.000 loving your neighbor, loving the poor, and take an attitude 34 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.680 of well, not these poor people. 35 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:25.400 I don't know. 36 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:27.199 I get the sense that there are a lot of 37 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:33.520 folks today, or some folks today, who take this attitude. Well, no, 38 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.240 the poor people Jesus was talking about in his time, 39 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.000 they were all like, it wasn't their fault they were poor. 40 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:44.840 They were like good poor people, not these poor people, 41 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:49.159 and which I just think is naive. There's no such 42 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:53.560 thing as a good poor person or a there's no 43 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:55.560 such thing as a good rich Perton. We're all sinners, 44 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.439 all right. And I doubt that every single poor person 45 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:02.599 who was poor in the time of Christ was this 46 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.800 richly virtuous person who had just fallen on hard luck. Now, 47 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:10.039 certainly there have our examples of Sometimes, yes, people are 48 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.800 poor by virtue of they're down on their luck and 49 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:17.400 they've had tough circumstances and it's really not their fault. 50 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.639 Sometimes people are poor because it is their fault, because 51 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:24.479 they have made poor choices, and on a certain level 52 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:26.680 that doesn't matter. We're supposed to love and care for 53 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:30.439 all of them. So I don't want to have a 54 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:37.199 knee jerk reaction of not caring about the person. And 55 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:40.960 what I would say, looking at this ordinance and how 56 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:48.479 the city intends to use it to enforce it, I 57 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:51.400 don't think that's the approach that's being taken by the 58 00:03:51.439 --> 00:04:00.319 city as best as I can see. So the things 59 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:04.439 that I think is interesting is the group of city 60 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:08.479 council members who are supporting this, the mayor is supporting this, 61 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.960 and then at his press conference about it, you've got, 62 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:16.519 you know, stalwart of the right. Gary Brettefeld standing right 63 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:18.680 next to the mayor. On the other side, you've got 64 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:24.120 stalwart of the left, Miguel Arrius, and you've got Tyler Maxwell. 65 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.680 So pretty much that runs the gamut of the ideological 66 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:33.240 spectrum on the city council, left, right, and center, and 67 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:39.680 all of them are supportive of this measure. Now, Maxwell's 68 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:46.839 comments about it, I think are illustrative. Maxwell said, what 69 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.079 this ordinance will allow us to do is clear the 70 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:51.560 large encampments building up in front of your children's schools, 71 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:53.839 your neighborhood parks, to local bus stops, and in front 72 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:57.879 of our chais's small businesses. We want to help the homeless, truly, 73 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.399 we do. We have tried our hardest the these last 74 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:02.879 four years I've been on the city Council, added Maxwell, 75 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.360 referring to the renovation of Rundown motels into emergency shelters 76 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:10.199 or transitional housing, meals, showers, bus rides, and other services. 77 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:14.240 We're here to help you if you want that help, 78 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:17.920 Maxwell said. If you don't want the city's help, that's 79 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:20.600 okay too, But I hope you find that help somewhere else. 80 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.560 Because our school's parks and businesses are off limits. Any 81 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.879 individual charge with violation of this article in lieu of 82 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:31.519 being taken to jail, may at the election of the 83 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:33.759 siding officer, and with the consent of the individual, be 84 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.079 taken to a place that provides social services, including mental health, 85 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:48.279 housing or substance abuse treatment. So the point is, anyone 86 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:52.079 who's being arrested for this, it's up to them if 87 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.800 they want to get prosecuted or not. The options are 88 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.920 get to services to help you, and if you don't, 89 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:07.199 then we will prosecute you. But basically, I think that 90 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:12.879 the problem is these resources are available and people aren't 91 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.240 availing themselves of it. And maybe that's because they've got 92 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:21.120 an addiction and they don't want the help that's available. 93 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:26.120 But I think this is at a certain point there's 94 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.480 a kind of tough love that has to be exercised, 95 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.839 and I don't think it's loving to let people just 96 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:37.759 continue to live in encampments when we were spending all 97 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:41.600 this money on services to help the homeless and they're 98 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:47.639 just not availing themselves of it. The posture that Andrew 99 00:06:47.720 --> 00:06:51.959 Jans is taking the city attorney, I think is also good. 100 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:54.480 Let me read some of the quotes from Jans. So 101 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:58.680 the one thousand dollars fine or the one year in 102 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:02.800 jail penalties. So basically this is a miss These are 103 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:07.000 misdemeanor crimes that people will be charged with. Okay, So 104 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.839 the definition of a misdemeanor for those who don't know 105 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:11.879 what's what's the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor. 106 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:13.879 We hear those words all the time, and I think 107 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.160 people have a sense of oh, felony means it's serious, 108 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.120 and misdemeanor means it's not. A felony just means a 109 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:24.399 crime that's punishable by a year plus in jail. A 110 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:28.800 misdemeanor means a crime that's punishable by less than a year. 111 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:35.519 So all these so the penalties for violating this homeless 112 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.199 encampment order is thousand dollars fine up to a year 113 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.920 in jail. So clearly they're structuring this as this is 114 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:45.839 a misdemeanor. So one thousand dollars fine or a year 115 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.399 in jail are the maximum that a judge can impose 116 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:55.160 or that a prosecutor can ask for. Andrew Jans said, 117 00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:01.720 so Jan's had this quote. I'm directing my prosecution team 118 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.839 and even though the actually let me back up, so 119 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:10.399 most of the time, crimes are enforced by the district Attorney. 120 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:15.720 And the district attorney is a county wide office, right, 121 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:20.519 So Lisa smit Camp is the Fresno County District Attorney. 122 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:26.720 Sally Moreno is the Maderra County District Attorney, and each 123 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:32.440 of them are charged with prosecuting crimes that happen within 124 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.519 their district, which in this case is just the county. 125 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:41.399 So Lisa smith Camp oversees criminal prosecution for crimes committed 126 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:44.720 throughout the County of Fresno. So if it happens in Fresno, 127 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:48.919 if it happens in Clovis, if it happens in Redley, 128 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.639 any of these, if it happens in Sanger, all these crimes, 129 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:58.559 if they happen within Fresno County, Lisa smith Camp oversees it. Now, 130 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:00.639 the interesting thing about this ordinance is that it's going 131 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:04.559 to be enforced by the city attorney of the City 132 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:07.000 of Fresno. This is only applying to the City of Fresno. 133 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:15.519 And I think the reason why is because the district attorney, 134 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:22.159 she's overseeing criminal law enforcement for all kinds of crimes, 135 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.159 most of which are a lot more serious, you know, 136 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.600 not to say homeleost encampments aren't disruptive to people or 137 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:38.519 businesses or what have you. But frankly, if the district 138 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:43.159 attorney's office has a limited amount of time and resources 139 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:46.480 at its disposal, they only have X number of attorneys. 140 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:47.840 They have a lot of attorneys, but they only have 141 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:51.639 X number of attorneys with X many hours of daytime. 142 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.639 And I think often when measures like this get dumped 143 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:00.759 into the lap of the district attorney, they're prosecutors are 144 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:04.799 so busy charging people with gang related offenses and murders 145 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:08.559 and theft, and you know this that and the DUIs 146 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:10.879 and this that and the other, that something like a 147 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:15.159 homeless encampment prosecution is a misdemeanor. Homeless encampment prosecution is 148 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:17.960 just not going to be priority A number one. And 149 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.919 maybe you'll have a prosecutor who's more willing to, you know, plea, 150 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:25.679 bargain this out and get this case out of the way. 151 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:30.240 So what's happening here is enforcement of this measure is 152 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:36.679 going to be undertaken by the city attorney and the 153 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.519 city attorney's office. Now, usually the city attorney's office isn't 154 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:45.080 so much concerned with the broad range of criminal law 155 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:50.480 enforcement so they can expend more time, more energy on 156 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:55.320 something like this than the DA's office can. And obviously 157 00:10:55.440 --> 00:10:59.399 the district attorney is overseeing the whole County of Fresno. 158 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:01.639 Which includes the hire city of Fresno. 159 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:04.159 The City Attorney's office is just going to be focused 160 00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:07.000 on Fresno. Okay, So this is just the city Attorney's 161 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.320 office for the City of Fresno. If there's a holmost 162 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:11.960 encampment in Clovis, they're not going to be able to 163 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:17.600 prosecute anything with it. So Andrew Jans said, the City 164 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.960 Attorney for Fresno. Andrew Jans said, quote, I'm directing my 165 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:25.840 prosecution team to make sure we don't engage in any 166 00:11:25.879 --> 00:11:28.519 type of plea bargaining when it comes to these types 167 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.759 of cases. We're going to demand accountability on all of 168 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:36.600 these cases. Jan said, if you accept services, if you 169 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.600 accept help in the criminal justice system, then we're going 170 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.240 to go that route. But he added that his attorneys 171 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.039 will seek maximum sentences from judges and juries for those 172 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:51.240 who refuse help. And honestly, I think that's a good approach. 173 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:57.639 I honestly think that's a really good approach. If we 174 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:01.960 have these services available and we've expended so much money 175 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.440 at the state level, at the city level to help people, 176 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:15.919 then maybe police involvement, maybe criminal justice involvement can become helpful. 177 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:20.200 Maybe this is the way to transition people out of 178 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:25.519 this cycle I think often of drugs and then homelessness. 179 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.039 So Dyer sort of capped this off by saying, the 180 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.480 hope is that the judge in any case will offer 181 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:40.200 that individual, the homeless individual treatment in lieu of jail time, 182 00:12:40.360 --> 00:12:42.639 and our hope is that they will take advantage of that. 183 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:45.639 If not, then there are going to be criminal justice 184 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.039 system consequences. Now, when we return, I want to talk 185 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.960 about the Supreme Court case that allowed the City of 186 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:56.200 Fresno to take this step and the Ninth Circuit decisions 187 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:57.919 that had held it up. That's next on the John 188 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.559 Girardi Show. The reason the City of Fresno is able 189 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.919 to promote these this new measure that's been introduced to 190 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.279 the city Council. It's being supported as of now, supported 191 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:18.600 by Mayor Dyer, by council members Brettefeld, Arius and Maxwell, 192 00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:22.559 and I'm guessing other council members support it. Those are 193 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.840 just the people who were at the Those are just 194 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:26.440 the people who were at the press conference. I mean 195 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:30.039 if if both mc if both Miguel Arius and Gary 196 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:33.440 Brettefeld support it, who are pretty much at the polar 197 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.679 opposite ends of the ideological spectrum of the city council. 198 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.399 If both of them support it, I'm guessing pretty much 199 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:45.039 everyone in the middle supports it too, So I would 200 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.360 expect that this is likely to pass. How did this 201 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.000 come to be? Why now, all of a sudden do 202 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.639 we see Why now, all of a sudden do we 203 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.240 see Gavin Newsom promoting issuing this executive order urging people 204 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.159 to clear homeless encampments. Why do we see the city 205 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:02.240 of Fresno. 206 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:04.759 Moving in this way? 207 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.240 Well, it's because of a recent Supreme Court decision that 208 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:10.519 just came down a few weeks ago that was looking 209 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.639 at a similar kind of law that was passed in 210 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:16.440 the city of Boise, Idaho. Now, why do we what 211 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.919 were we doing waiting on something that happened in Boise, Idaho? Well, 212 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:27.759 Idaho and the federal district courts in Idaho, they are 213 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:32.559 under the jurisdiction of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, 214 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:39.879 the Federal Circuit Court, the Federal Appeals court that hears 215 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:45.399 all of the appeals from the federal courts in Idaho, 216 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:51.320 but also California and Washington and Oregon and Arizona and 217 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:57.879 Nevada and Montana and Alaska and Hawaii and Guam, so 218 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:00.000 the ninths and maybe some other states that I missed. 219 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:03.759 The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is an appeals court. 220 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.120 They hear appeals from all the decisions made by district 221 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:10.320 court judges in all of those states, and they are 222 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:15.399 making decisions about federal law the interpretation of federal law 223 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.960 as it applies in that region of the country. The 224 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.200 Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is far and away the 225 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:25.919 largest of all the circuit courts as far as the 226 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.240 number of people who live within its jurisdiction. The Ninth 227 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.960 Circuit is also, and has been for a long time, 228 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:37.559 notoriously the most liberal of all the federal circuit courts. 229 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.840 In fact, one of the great accomplishments of the Trump 230 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:45.960 administration for his first term was making the Ninth Circuit 231 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:49.440 Court of Appeals, taking it from being the most whacked out, 232 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:56.000 radically liberal court in human history to being just moderately liberal. Underrated. 233 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:59.399 What an enormous accomplishment that was during the Trump years 234 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.480 by Trump and McConnell and Lindsay Graham and Chuck Grassley 235 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.039 and all the guys in the Senate Judiciary Committee, all 236 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:12.600 the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee. Now so, Boise, 237 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.440 Idaho is part of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals 238 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.639 and the city of Boise had passed an ordinance like 239 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:27.679 this one making homeless encampments illegal, and this was challenged 240 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:37.039 as a constitutional matter. Basically, people sued the City of 241 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.480 Boise to say that this law, that this ordinance that 242 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:46.000 the City of Bois had adopted banning homeless encampments, violated 243 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.360 the Constitution of the United States of America. And basically 244 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.080 they said that it violated the Eighth Amendment. The Eighth 245 00:16:54.159 --> 00:17:04.839 Amendment which prohibits cruel and unusual punishments. The argument goes 246 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:10.200 that if you don't have enough beds for the homeless 247 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.000 to stay in, if you don't have enough social services 248 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:17.480 available within your city to allow the homeless. 249 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.119 To get a place to sleep, it. 250 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:27.279 Is cruel and unusual punishment to penalize someone for the 251 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:32.119 state of being homeless. That that is a cruel and 252 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:39.759 unusual form of punishment. The Supreme Court got to hear. Now, 253 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.240 so let's let's take a step back. The Ninth Circuit 254 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.119 Court of Appeals agreed with this argument. The Ninth Circuit 255 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.880 Court of Appeals agreed with this argument and said that 256 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:58.640 it was in fact cruel and unusual punishment, that if 257 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.119 a city has x number of homeless and doesn't have 258 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:05.759 that many beds, that therefore it's cruel and unusual punishment 259 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.720 to penalize someone for the state of being homeless. 260 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:16.200 Now, I think that this is probably wrong on a 261 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:16.960 couple of levels. 262 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.319 First, I think, okay, so there are three thousand homeless people. 263 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.279 I don't think you need to have three thousand and 264 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:31.519 one beds before you characterize homeless encampments as illegal, just 265 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:35.720 as a fairness, Just as a question of fairness, It's 266 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:38.839 not like the first night you arrest all three thousand 267 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:42.279 people or something like that, that that's not what's going 268 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:46.119 to happen. A city can have a plan for how 269 00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:48.480 you enforce this in a way that can transition to 270 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:54.240 population away from homelessness and living in an encampment. The 271 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.119 fact that it is illegal can provide people with an 272 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.279 incentive to get off the street. I don't think as 273 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.279 a policy question, I don't think there's a fundamentally evil 274 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:12.880 thing involved with making homelessness illegal when you don't quite 275 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.519 have that precise number of sheltered beds. 276 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.519 Okay, But secondly, I. 277 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.960 Think the argument that it's cruel and unusual punishment is 278 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.640 very hard to sustain if you have the approach of 279 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.400 what were the framers of the Constitution saying? 280 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:33.880 By cruel and unusual punishment? 281 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:37.160 All right, Well, what the frames of the Constitution meant was, 282 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.720 we're not going to torture people to death by you know, 283 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.160 having them hung, drawn and quartered. You know, we're not 284 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:47.519 going to you know, pull their intestines out in front 285 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.160 of their eyes and you know, like, we're not going 286 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:53.440 to engage in medieval forms of torture as a form 287 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:55.839 of criminal punishment. We're not going to burn people alive 288 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:58.799 at the stake or you know, things like that. That's 289 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:07.480 what the Eighth Amendment is about, saying that you might 290 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:12.559 think that a certain form of punishment or penalizing certain 291 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.680 kinds of conduct, you might think that it's unwise, you 292 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:20.240 might think that it's bad policy, but it's not a 293 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:23.720 thing that the Eighth Amendment is there to prevent against. 294 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:29.240 The Eighth Amendment's goal is not to prohibit that kind of. 295 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:30.640 A regulation by a government. 296 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:33.400 So I think that's the argument the Supreme Court had, 297 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.559 and I think it's a sensible argument. I don't think 298 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.960 that's the kind of conduct the Eighth Amendment was designed 299 00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:53.039 to prevent. So because the Supreme now here's the problem. 300 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:55.720 The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed that, yes, it 301 00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:00.279 is cruel and unusual punishment to outlaw homeless encampments when 302 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.720 you don't have enough beds for them to stay in. 303 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.400 And because the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal said that 304 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:12.839 for a case in Boise, Idaho, well that becomes the 305 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:16.359 interpretation of federal law for all of the states that 306 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.960 are under the jurisdiction of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, 307 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:24.359 including California. So after the Ninth Circuit issued that decision, 308 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:30.160 California was stuck. California basically couldn't enforce any laws against 309 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.640 homeless encampments. Why because someone would challenge it and say, hey, 310 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:36.799 the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal Court of Appeals already 311 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.319 ruled on this, this violates federal law. And the Ninth 312 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:47.519 Circuit's decisions are binding for everyone who lives within California. 313 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.440 So because of a decision emanating out of Boise, Idaho, 314 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:58.920 but within the federal court system, California couldn't pass laws, 315 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:07.480 couldn't pass city or banning homeless encampments. However, now that 316 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.720 the Supreme Court stepped in and said, nope, we're overturning 317 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.960 what the Ninth Circuit said. This isn't cruel and unusual punishment. 318 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:18.119 Now, all of a sudden, Gavin. 319 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:20.400 Newsom can issue an executive order calling for the end 320 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.839 of homeless encampments, and the City of Fresno can issue 321 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:27.119 stuff and county supervisors can't. This Supreme Court decision has 322 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:28.119 cleared the way. 323 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.519 So again, I. 324 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:35.680 Hope that these kinds of measures get enforced in a 325 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.119 just way. I hope that there are actually services available 326 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.720 for the homeless. I am inclined to trust the judgment 327 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.000 of guys like Jerry Dyer and Tyler Maxwell and all 328 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:52.359 of them that there are such services available, And I 329 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.440 hope this can lead to a better situation in Fresno 330 00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:58.880 with homelessness, because it is a real problem. When we return, 331 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:00.839 I want to just talk about some of the problems 332 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.039 with homelessness that even I've just experienced. That's next on 333 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:07.599 John Jrardy show now that the City of Fresno is 334 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.720 introducing an ordnance to ban homeless encampments, and this follows 335 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:17.279 up from a Supreme Court decision overturning a Ninth Circuit 336 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:20.359 Court of Appeals decision that basically cleared the way for 337 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.519 city governments and state governments to pass measures like this. 338 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.200 I want to talk a little bit about just my 339 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:35.240 own experience as a business manager. I'm run I'm executive 340 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:37.680 director of a nonprofit and we have a business building 341 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.720 in the city of Fresno. I just want to talk 342 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:44.000 about my experiences with homelessness. So I'm not going to 343 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.680 give I mean, I guess someone could just look up 344 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:50.000 right to Life of Central California's address. It's not exactly secret, 345 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.240 but you know, we our business is located near I'll 346 00:23:54.279 --> 00:24:01.319 just say we're located near Blackstone in Ashland, Okay. So 347 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.440 we have a lot of homeless people in the neighborhood. 348 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:10.240 And the outside of my business the it's just an 349 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:15.759 office building. Our office building used to belong to this 350 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:19.359 company that basically they the owner of the company. He 351 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.039 basically he owned all the Wendy's in KFC franchises in Fresno, 352 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:28.720 and the gentleman who owned it before he died, and 353 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.920 this was about I think it was twenty plus years ago, 354 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.680 he decided to donate his old management building to Rite 355 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.200 to Life of Central California. So he completely I think 356 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.519 at first he let us be there sort of as 357 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.839 a tenant, and then he just gave us the building, 358 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:47.920 donated the building to us free and clear. So we 359 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:54.319 own it and it's up it's on the street, and 360 00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:57.720 the part of our building that's against the street, there's 361 00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:00.720 sort of the wall of the building there and against 362 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.839 the wall of the building there's like a garden bed 363 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:06.519 with sort of brick on the outside. And the garden 364 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:11.640 bed is about about three feet tall. I'd say it's 365 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.400 right at the perfect height for someone who's walking by. 366 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:16.880 They can just sit on it on this kind of 367 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:21.440 brick wall, and it's containing a big patch of dirt. Well, 368 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.279 we can't really plant anything in the dirt because of 369 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:29.240 all the passerby. Now, the problem is with having that 370 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.960 garden bed with a little wall there that's like perfect 371 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.920 for sitting on is that people sit on it constantly 372 00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:40.759 and it's shaded also, so people are constantly stopping by 373 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.160 to sit there. And whether it's homeless people whoever it is. 374 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:51.039 People are constantly coming by to sit there, and I 375 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.799 don't know that all of them are homeless necessarily. Like 376 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.079 just yesterday, I had a big crowd of people who 377 00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:01.960 all had bicycles, all decided just to sit there all 378 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:07.039 day and smoke weed. And I didn't even get the 379 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:09.839 sense necessarily that they were homeless. They just seemed like, 380 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:13.200 I don't know, maybe they were just ne'er do wells. 381 00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:16.960 I mean, it's not I mean, it's hard to stereotype 382 00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.920 and you can't tell just by looking at someone. But 383 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.759 they weren't necessarily in like really raggedy clothing or anything. 384 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:29.000 They were just sitting around smoking weed. I've had times 385 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:32.200 where people just sort of hang out there and they're 386 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.759 literally gambling against the side of my building. They're like 387 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:39.279 shooting dice. They're rolling dice for money against the side 388 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:44.400 of the building. Now, we do often have homeless though 389 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:47.559 who in camp there. And it's kind of I can't 390 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.920 always see that outside wall of my building because of 391 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:53.839 sort of it's the outside wall and I'm inside the building. 392 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.240 But there's a used car dealership that's kind of right 393 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:00.599 across the street from us, who they look out, you know, 394 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:03.240 their salesman or you know, hanging out in the parking 395 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.799 lot as car salesmen do at a dealership, and they 396 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:10.400 see everything. Oh yeah, people are peeing against the side 397 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.920 of my building all the time. People are shooting up 398 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:14.759 drugs against the side of my building all the time. 399 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:17.359 I know because I see the needles. People are drinking 400 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:19.640 near my building all the time. I know because I 401 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.960