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<v Speaker 1>It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, welcome back everyone. It is April thirtieth, and

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<v Speaker 2>we are about to leave a month in Boston that

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<v Speaker 2>generally represents the beginning of the baseball season, and for

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<v Speaker 2>twelve years now has represented the horrible, that horrible day

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<v Speaker 2>back in twenty thirteen when the Boston Marathon was struck

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<v Speaker 2>by the marathon bombers. And we've had a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>conversation on Nightside this week about the concept of due

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<v Speaker 2>process and what it means. And it is a concept

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<v Speaker 2>that is founded, you know, in the in the legal

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<v Speaker 2>documents of this country, and certainly founded in the Constitution,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is a process that sometimes defies definition depending

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<v Speaker 2>upon the circumstances. So, for example, we've been talking about

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<v Speaker 2>a due process for the guy from Maryland who was

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<v Speaker 2>flown out of the country with other members of MS

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<v Speaker 2>thirteen and Toronte Duragua, and there's a big conversation about, well,

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<v Speaker 2>how do we know he was a gang member and

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<v Speaker 2>all of that, and you know, at some point, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we can deal with that. But I thought that just

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<v Speaker 2>by way of explaining how we in this country bend

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<v Speaker 2>over backwards to provide due process for lots of people,

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<v Speaker 2>some of whom come here and become US citizens. And

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<v Speaker 2>in this case, Boston bomber number two, who tonight hopefully

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<v Speaker 2>sits in a jail cell by himself at the Supermax

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<v Speaker 2>Federal Penitentiary in Colorado. And I I'd love it and

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<v Speaker 2>have him a radio so he could listen to this

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<v Speaker 2>show tonight. But I just the question that I have is,

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<v Speaker 2>is here we have a Boston barmber number two, who

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<v Speaker 2>I choose not to mention my name. I hope you

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<v Speaker 2>can understand who I'm talking about, the younger of the

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<v Speaker 2>two bombers, the one that was not run over. Actually

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<v Speaker 2>he was the run that ran over his brother the

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<v Speaker 2>night of the shootout in Watertown. So these guys do

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<v Speaker 2>their dastardly deed, their first dastardly deed. Maybe there were

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<v Speaker 2>other dastardly deeds that we weren't able to prove, like

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<v Speaker 2>the triple murder in Waltham, but we'll say that for

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<v Speaker 2>another night. The dastardly deed of April fifteenth, when they

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<v Speaker 2>left two pressure cooker bombs about a block and a

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<v Speaker 2>half or so apart on Boylston Street near the finished

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<v Speaker 2>line of the Boston Marathon with the intention to kill

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<v Speaker 2>and name as many people as possible. They killed in

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<v Speaker 2>that moment three individuals, and of course we have come

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<v Speaker 2>to know the name of Martin Richard and Crystal Cake

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<v Speaker 2>Campbell and Lindsay lou who was only twenty three, Crystal

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<v Speaker 2>Campbell only twenty nine, and Martin Richard only eight. And

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<v Speaker 2>then on Thursday night of that week they shot and

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<v Speaker 2>killed MIT police officer, executed, let's be honest, MIT Police

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<v Speaker 2>officer Sean Collier on the campus of MIT. And then

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<v Speaker 2>in the shootout in Watertown, there was a Boston police

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<v Speaker 2>officer who died about a year later. He was injured

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<v Speaker 2>in that shootout, Boston Police officer Dennis Simons. So in all,

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<v Speaker 2>there were five deaths attributed to the Boston bombers who

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<v Speaker 2>came here from Augistan, sought all the protections and the

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<v Speaker 2>beneficence of this country, and then did what they did.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no question they did what they did. We have

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<v Speaker 2>the videotapes. We have them. We watched them walking away

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<v Speaker 2>from the scene after they had planted and activated the bombs.

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<v Speaker 2>Boston bomber Number to played guilty. He didn't fight the

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<v Speaker 2>evidence that was against him, the evidence was overwhelming, played

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<v Speaker 2>guilty to what they had done. And of course they

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<v Speaker 2>also maimed more than one hundred well injured, and some

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<v Speaker 2>people named over one hundred and fifty people. Just as

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<v Speaker 2>by way of mentioning, there's the Norton family. Liz Norton,

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<v Speaker 2>who had two sons lost both their legs, both lost

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<v Speaker 2>legs in the bombing. She was quoted on Wednesday in

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<v Speaker 2>the Boston Herald. It's mind bobble boggling. It's taken this long.

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<v Speaker 2>My hope is I'm still alive to see it through. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So what I did was I did a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a timeline here and there is you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>read about this tomorrow in the Boston Herald, a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of it's been in the Boston Globe. But I

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<v Speaker 2>want to explain to you what do process can mean.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a very elastic sized concept. Due process can be

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<v Speaker 2>short and direct, or it can be just stretched out.

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<v Speaker 2>And oftentimes the more bizarre your crimes, the more lawyers

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<v Speaker 2>and oftentimes pro bono lawyers are drawn to defend these

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<v Speaker 2>these horrific people. So the bombing takes place on April fifteenth,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirteen. That's now twelve years and two weeks ago.

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<v Speaker 2>So you do the math on the number of days

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<v Speaker 2>that this guy has lived. But he has lived over

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<v Speaker 2>If I'm doing some quick math, three hundred and sixty

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<v Speaker 2>five days a year, twelve twelve years, we're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>at least three thousand days, probably getting close to thirty

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred. It's convicted, pleads guilty in twenty fifteen, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's fairly quick, and he's sentenced to death. However, the

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<v Speaker 2>First Circuit Court of Appeals, in their infinite wisdom some reason,

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<v Speaker 2>decided to overturn the death penalty. Now I haven't read

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<v Speaker 2>the decision by the First Circle in a while, but

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<v Speaker 2>they may have concluded any of a number of grounds

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<v Speaker 2>cool and unusual punishment. Alough, it's really not that unusual.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a period of time, even last late in

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<v Speaker 2>the Biden administration, when that death penalty could have been

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<v Speaker 2>lifted from his shoulders. But there were three bombers, three

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<v Speaker 2>killers that Biden. Out of forty people on death row,

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<v Speaker 2>thirty seven got commutations from the death penalty. Three did not.

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<v Speaker 2>Dylan Rufe, the racist kid that killed the nine older

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<v Speaker 2>black parishioners in a South Carolina Church after having prayed

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<v Speaker 2>with them, the anti Semite who attacked the synagogue Tree

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<v Speaker 2>of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh or outside of Pittsburgh, and

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<v Speaker 2>the Boston bomber number two. So the Supreme Court two

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<v Speaker 2>years later, now we're seven years out or we're actually

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<v Speaker 2>nine years out from the bombing, they overruled it and

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<v Speaker 2>reinstated the death penalty. So then the lawyers, these are

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<v Speaker 2>these lawyers who I guess we're paying for them. They're

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<v Speaker 2>they're billing the government. These lawyers asked the First Circuit

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<v Speaker 2>to re examine the wadir of the jurors, and specifically

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<v Speaker 2>jurors number one, thirty eight, and eighty six. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>we're really drilling down here. And the First Circuit, who

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<v Speaker 2>again had overturned the death penalty already, maybe they should

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<v Speaker 2>be recused from reviewing this. They ordered the trial judge,

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<v Speaker 2>Georgie O'Toole, who's someone who I know a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>He's very competent trial judge. An amazing background on him.

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<v Speaker 2>He had as his bachelor's degree from Boston College, went

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<v Speaker 2>to Harvard Law School. He practiced for about ten years

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<v Speaker 2>from nineteen seventy two to nineteen eighty two. He became

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<v Speaker 2>an associate justice in the Boston Municipal Court from eighty

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<v Speaker 2>two to ninety and then in the Superior Court of

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<v Speaker 2>Massachusetts from ninety to ninety five, and then in ninety

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<v Speaker 2>five he was nominated by President Bill Clinton to the

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<v Speaker 2>Federal Court, and he served in the Federal Court from

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety five until he assumed senior status in twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is a very competent, qualified, highly respected jurists.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, I have no idea what his politics

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<v Speaker 2>are or anything like that. He is a quintessentially a jurist.

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<v Speaker 2>So the lawyers now for the bombers have gone one

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<v Speaker 2>more step further. They have asked that Judge O'Toole be

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<v Speaker 2>taken off the case because Judge o'tool needs to needs

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<v Speaker 2>to recuse himself. Well, Judge O'Toole is not going to

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<v Speaker 2>recuse himself from the case, nor should he. He will

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<v Speaker 2>stay on this case, thankfully, because we do have an

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<v Speaker 2>adult in the house. When Judge O'Toole, and he has

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<v Speaker 2>written recently, he's denied the Marathon bomber's allegation that another

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<v Speaker 2>judge should re examine the judge o'tools procedure at sentencing

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<v Speaker 2>Barmber number two to death, he wrote, He wrote this

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<v Speaker 2>in that decision. He said, it is a parent that

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<v Speaker 2>the Court of Appeals intended that this court investigate the

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<v Speaker 2>potential bias of two jurors an issue. As I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>those are jurors one thirty eight and two eighty six.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody knew about the case. Okay. It was impossible, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>to find jurors who didn't know about the case. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess you could find twelve people out of an

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<v Speaker 2>insane asylum who never heard about the case, maybe twelve

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<v Speaker 2>people who lived under a bridge. But amongst people who

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<v Speaker 2>would intellectually qualify to be able to sit in a jury,

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<v Speaker 2>they all had known about this case. The instruction, according

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<v Speaker 2>to Judge O'Toole, was plainly directed to this Dusk District judge,

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<v Speaker 2>meaning himself. Recusal would be at odds with the direction

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<v Speaker 2>of the Court of Appeals. He also adds, quote, doubting

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<v Speaker 2>my ability to follow my old to faithfully apply the

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<v Speaker 2>law unquote is dead wrong. The reason I'm going through

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<v Speaker 2>this tonight, and going through it at a pace that

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully all of you can follow, is that this is

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<v Speaker 2>all part kitten kaboodle, if you will, of what we

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<v Speaker 2>would call due process for Boston bomber number two. Now

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<v Speaker 2>under the standard that I have recommended, when there is

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<v Speaker 2>no scintilla of doubt about the guilt of an individual,

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<v Speaker 2>and there is no scintilla of doubt in this case,

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<v Speaker 2>as a matter of fact, this guy has pled guilty

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<v Speaker 2>to the crime. And there's no suggestion that he was

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<v Speaker 2>pleading guilty for because he was being pressured or anything

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<v Speaker 2>like that. He's guilty, he understands it. And are the

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<v Speaker 2>aggravating circumstances, Yeah, A couple of pipe bombs, a pressure

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<v Speaker 2>cook of bombs near a crowded marathon finished line the

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<v Speaker 2>day of the Boston Marathon on Boylston Street, where there

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<v Speaker 2>are hundreds or not thousands of people who could have

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<v Speaker 2>been impacted by the explosions. Yeah, I think those are

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<v Speaker 2>aggravating circumstances. So the consequence is that as we fight

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<v Speaker 2>and argue about the guy from Maryland, the Maryland dad

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<v Speaker 2>who now is in El Salvador, I guess he's in

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<v Speaker 2>a better prison than the sea caught prison. Good for

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<v Speaker 2>him or someone else who is deported the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 2>how much? How much due process. Do we need to

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<v Speaker 2>give the Boston Marathon bomber. I think we need to

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<v Speaker 2>give him one more bit of due process, and it

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<v Speaker 2>should be applied in Terre Haute, Indiana, where he would

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<v Speaker 2>go to be executed. I want to open this line

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<v Speaker 2>up because most of you out there understand in your

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<v Speaker 2>in your gut, in your heart what should be done

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<v Speaker 2>and how quickly it should be done. I certainly understand

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<v Speaker 2>what should be done. And I know that there are

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<v Speaker 2>people who were posted in aulterably opposed to death penalty.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fine. Kind of argue with people who have a

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<v Speaker 2>either a philosophical or religious opposition of that, that's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>But we have a death penalty in this country. It

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<v Speaker 2>has been found by our Supreme Court to be to

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<v Speaker 2>be constitutional. And it is now time for Boston bomber

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<v Speaker 2>number two to get the Jews as far as I'm concerned,

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<v Speaker 2>which he so richly deserves. We don't need to allow

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<v Speaker 2>him to live a long and comfortable life in supermacs

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<v Speaker 2>in my opinion. But the reason I mentioned this tonight

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<v Speaker 2>is in the last few days, the whole concept of

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<v Speaker 2>due process is sort of an elastic process. What due

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<v Speaker 2>process might mean for one person is a little bit different.

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<v Speaker 2>There are some fundamentals of due process. Now, this guy

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<v Speaker 2>actually was a citizen. He became a citizen. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was just about seven months before he did this

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<v Speaker 2>dastardly act. He knew what he got himself into. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we're told, well, he was the younger brother and he

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<v Speaker 2>was influenced. All of that has been out there. We're

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<v Speaker 2>done with this. Let's get it over with. I'd love

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<v Speaker 2>to hear from you. This is my little bit of

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<v Speaker 2>a treatise, a due process. Okay. I believe in due process,

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<v Speaker 2>I truly do. But due process is different for an

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<v Speaker 2>American citizen who is charged with a crime for which

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<v Speaker 2>that you enjoy the presumption of innocence than this guy

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<v Speaker 2>who has surrendered his presumption of innocence. At this point,

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<v Speaker 2>it is time to put to get the show on

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<v Speaker 2>the road. Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. Feel

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<v Speaker 2>free to join the conversation. I'll be right back.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w B Boston's

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<v Speaker 1>news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So my question essentially is how much due process does

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<v Speaker 2>the Boston bomber deserve and has he has he has

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<v Speaker 2>he exhausted his his his good, his good, his due process?

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty simple question. I think it was exhausted a long

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<v Speaker 2>time ago. Six one, seven, two, five, four to ten

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Gonna

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<v Speaker 2>go to Larry in Boston. Larry, welcome your first this

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<v Speaker 2>hour night side. Larry, go right ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks Dan, thanks for taking my call. I agree with

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<v Speaker 3>you wholeheartedly. I think I think this this individual, let's

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<v Speaker 3>give him the benefit of that at least, has has

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<v Speaker 3>lived thirty five hundred days too too long. Given the

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<v Speaker 3>rough math, I think, you know, the the you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the abhorrent situation that he and his brother caused, and

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<v Speaker 3>the and the you know, irreparable harm that he's done

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<v Speaker 3>to the city of Boston, and the plague that he's

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<v Speaker 3>kind of placed upon us. One more bullet by the

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<v Speaker 3>Watertown police would have solved that problem, right yeah, And

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<v Speaker 3>and I and I think you know, he's he's lived

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<v Speaker 3>too long, and he's not due any due process, so,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, and I think due process is something that

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we as citizens deserve if if there are

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<v Speaker 3>situations and situations that require that due process to be invoked. However,

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<v Speaker 3>not something you know, again, you come here illegally and

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<v Speaker 3>not here as a legal citizen. Due process unfortunately does

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<v Speaker 3>not apply, right, And I know your question is specifically

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<v Speaker 3>about this individual on I don't think he's deserved any

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<v Speaker 3>and I think I agree with you. I think he's

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<v Speaker 3>he's he's kind of taken up residents in a federal

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<v Speaker 3>institution far longer than he deserves.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's you know, that's my feeling on it.

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<v Speaker 4>That's my point, and that that we as a society, Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>we're very generous. And the more publicity that a case gets, Uh,

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<v Speaker 4>there are plenty of you know, young poor Americans, young people,

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<v Speaker 4>teenagers who do something stupid, rob a bank or whatever,

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<v Speaker 4>and they get moved through the process pretty quickly. But

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<v Speaker 4>on the high profile cases, if you have enough money

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<v Speaker 4>to purchase lawyers, or if you have enough money because

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<v Speaker 4>of the the case, you can attract lawyers who will

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<v Speaker 4>be willing to offer their services for the publicity that

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<v Speaker 4>you get.

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<v Speaker 2>In the background, this guy could live another four or

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<v Speaker 2>five years here, I mean, you know, he What will

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<v Speaker 2>happen is that Georgia O'Toole is not going to refuse himself.

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<v Speaker 2>They're going to probably appeal that back up to the

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<v Speaker 2>first Circuit Court of Appeals. It's like a yo yo

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<v Speaker 2>going up and down. His due process is endless, endless. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And you think about what what the people who lost

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<v Speaker 2>loved ones, or the people whose loved ones were badly injured,

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<v Speaker 2>or the individuals who were badly injured, what is their

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<v Speaker 2>due process?

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<v Speaker 5>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, same way with this guy down in down

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<v Speaker 2>down in Maryland. Whiz whiz, where's the due process?

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<v Speaker 6>Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>For him? He's they want to bring him back now.

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<v Speaker 2>He apparently, you know, was told to leave the country,

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<v Speaker 2>didn't leave the country. It's uh, it's almost the more

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<v Speaker 2>bizarre your crime, the more due process that you're allowed.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think President Trump said it yesterday talking with

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<v Speaker 2>the guy from ABC for ABC Terry Terry what the

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<v Speaker 2>heck was his last name? The reporter who I have,

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<v Speaker 2>Terry Moran. He's basically saying to him, hey, uh, let's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, let's you know, let's let's get this over with.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no question of this guy's guilt or innocence. We

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<v Speaker 2>we know that they are aggravating circumstances because there was

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<v Speaker 2>one or two yours who might have been a little

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<v Speaker 2>less than forthcoming. I think it's it's a complete waste

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<v Speaker 2>of time, and it it gives me something to talk about,

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<v Speaker 2>but it also it shows how the system can be

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<v Speaker 2>In my opinion, a great system of justice can be abused.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna let you go. I appreciate your calling and

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<v Speaker 2>getting us going.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, Thanks Dan, Thank you much.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd love to hear from you. Six one, six, one tenth.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole concept of due process difficult to explain, but

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<v Speaker 2>when you look at it in the context of what

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<v Speaker 2>we're talking about, Boston bomber number two, how long does

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<v Speaker 2>it go on? You've You've seen that there are killers.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not familiar with all of their cases, but some

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<v Speaker 2>of these very bizarre killers are on death row for

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<v Speaker 2>twenty years. And I know that there are good people

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<v Speaker 2>out there who are posted the death betal. We may

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<v Speaker 2>hear from one in a few moments. I'd love to

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<v Speaker 2>hear from you. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten

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<v Speaker 2>thirty six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty Coming

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<v Speaker 2>right back after the news break here at the bottom

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<v Speaker 2>of the hour on Nightside.

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<v Speaker 1>Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Boston's news Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's get right back to the phones. You're

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<v Speaker 2>going to be talking with Harvey Silverglad in just a moment.

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<v Speaker 2>But Jean's been waiting a little longer. So I want

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<v Speaker 2>to get to Gene. Jeane. You are next up on

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<v Speaker 2>Nightside Gene from Brookline.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome, Hi, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing just great, Gene. We're talkingalking about due process.

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<v Speaker 7>It is, Uh, he had a not due process. He

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<v Speaker 7>should have been executed within a year of getting found guilty.

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<v Speaker 7>I give a year versus he's young. He could be

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<v Speaker 7>on death row for sixty years, working in his twenties

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<v Speaker 7>or something.

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<v Speaker 2>It's only thirty one right now. He's already been there

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<v Speaker 2>for twelve for twelve years. Yeah, well he's been there.

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<v Speaker 2>He's been there a long time.

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<v Speaker 7>He's Yeah, I think he should not be there any longer.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, where was where.

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<v Speaker 7>Were the rights of people that just want to go

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<v Speaker 7>watch a marathon not get killed or made you think

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<v Speaker 7>about them? So how can we think about him?

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<v Speaker 2>I understand, I understand, but uh, it's it's a real

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<v Speaker 2>it's a problem. It's a problem, and it is a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a it's it's it's a problem that people understand

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<v Speaker 2>due process. But uh, it's it's it's sort of a

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<v Speaker 2>it's a concept that is uh, it's it's it's a

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<v Speaker 2>concept that is somewhat flexible. It's it's not specifically laid

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<v Speaker 2>out that due processes A, B, C, and D. There

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<v Speaker 2>there are a number of ways in which due process

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<v Speaker 2>has been incorporated on a on a case by case

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<v Speaker 2>basis into the rights that all Americans and everyone in

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<v Speaker 2>this country to some degree is provided. Absolutely well, Gene,

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate your your.

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<v Speaker 7>Supporting oh, because I believe what you're saying with the

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<v Speaker 7>tail and that's the right way to pronounce it, doubt

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<v Speaker 7>without with the world until Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Again, that's a standard that I have created, which is

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<v Speaker 2>without a sintela means that there is no doubt. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>that's it means like the smallest possible pardon. Okay, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole The word due process comes from the fourteenth Amendment.

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<v Speaker 2>It says no States shall make or enforce any law

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<v Speaker 2>which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of

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<v Speaker 2>the United States. So, nor shall state deprived of any

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<v Speaker 2>person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's what we're what we're referring to. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>not defined with any specificity. It's become defined over years,

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<v Speaker 2>depending upon you know, various you know, various court decisions,

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<v Speaker 2>nor deny any person within his jurisdiction the equal protection

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<v Speaker 2>of the law fourteenth Amendment. Thank you so much, very much, Gene.

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<v Speaker 2>I thank you for taking the time to call, and

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for agreeing with me.

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<v Speaker 7>Okay, okay, always.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably going to disagree with me.

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<v Speaker 5>Thanks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yea.

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<v Speaker 2>This is my friend, Harvey Silverglade. Harvey is a pre

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<v Speaker 2>eminent defense attorney. UH, one of the best, if not

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<v Speaker 2>the best, that I've ever watched in court. Harvey, welcome

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<v Speaker 2>to Night's side. You've heard me talk about due process.

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<v Speaker 2>It has been applied and applied very very well. Uh

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<v Speaker 2>to the benefit of Boston bomber number two.

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<v Speaker 5>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>At what point do we say, Okay, this guy's had

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<v Speaker 2>enough due process. He has had due process.

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<v Speaker 5>Let me the last time I dealt with this on

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<v Speaker 5>your program, I pointed out that institutionally I was opposed

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<v Speaker 5>to the death penalty because of the possibility that the

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<v Speaker 5>line would be of what is certain would be moved

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<v Speaker 5>and moved and moved, and eventually an innocent person would

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<v Speaker 5>be executed, with which the innocent spasure has shown has happened,

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<v Speaker 5>and my.

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<v Speaker 2>And my my audience respects and I respect your philosophical

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<v Speaker 2>concern absolutely.

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<v Speaker 5>Now, now let me take another approach. You're an orthodox Catholic.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a Colby that I'm a Catholic.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm you're you're you're believing Catholic.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm a strugg like everyone else who's a Catholic,

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<v Speaker 2>they will tell you they're they're an imperfect, struggling Catholic.

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<v Speaker 5>If you know what I'm saying, Hey, I I do.

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<v Speaker 5>I do. I have the same problem with Well, okay,

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<v Speaker 5>go ahead. My question is this, how do you square

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<v Speaker 5>your support for the death penalty with the Ten Commandments?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I I do see a little bit of separation,

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<v Speaker 2>separation of church, church and state. Let me just finish,

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<v Speaker 2>let me sorry, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 5>The Tank Commandment says say murder it is our start kill,

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<v Speaker 5>which is different than murder you kill. Yeah, okay, now

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<v Speaker 5>let's let's go just by your opposition.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what I'm what I would be, what I would

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<v Speaker 2>argue is that the state is not murdering him. He is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he's living just as if in a state

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<v Speaker 2>of war. If someone goes to war and happens to

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<v Speaker 2>kill an enemy combatant, they haven't murdered them. They generally,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they get they get a medal for having

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<v Speaker 2>taken out one of the enemy. I think that a

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<v Speaker 2>society has a right to defend itself, and I do

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<v Speaker 2>believe that the death penalty does have a deterrent effect

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<v Speaker 2>and it will make some people think about it. And

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<v Speaker 2>I feel that, you know, it is up it is

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<v Speaker 2>up to God Almighty whether and I think the same

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<v Speaker 2>God runs Judaism, Catholicism, Islam and all of that. There's

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<v Speaker 2>not multiple gods up there. There's one person. In my belief.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't prove any of that, Howie that it's that

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<v Speaker 2>it's up to him and I but I think that

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<v Speaker 2>we as a society have a right to defend ourselves. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what do you do? I'm with with someone.

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<v Speaker 2>Let us say who is on who kills? Uh? And

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<v Speaker 2>you don't give him or her the death penalty? And

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<v Speaker 2>then they kill a corrections officer? You know how many

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<v Speaker 2>how many people would they would they kill? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I have no problem morally or or religiously with doing

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<v Speaker 2>away with this guy based upon what he did. And

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<v Speaker 2>I know that there, by the way, are members of

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<v Speaker 2>the families of the victims who are opposed to the

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<v Speaker 2>death penalty. I don't think that the Richard family is

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<v Speaker 2>advocating for his death penalty. They're probably just better, better

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<v Speaker 2>people than I am.

418
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.559
<v Speaker 5>Well, I don't think it's got to do. It's better people,

419
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.359
<v Speaker 5>but I do think that well, I guess in the end,

420
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.599
<v Speaker 5>you and I just disagree, and there's no way of

421
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:31.559
<v Speaker 5>reconciling our precisions. But I well, let me ask you that,

422
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:32.240
<v Speaker 5>let me ask you us.

423
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.680
<v Speaker 2>I know that you're If there ever was a case

424
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:39.000
<v Speaker 2>that my friend Harvey Silverglate, the great defense lawyer, could

425
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.839
<v Speaker 2>see them, could see as a possibility, this would be it.

426
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:45.759
<v Speaker 2>My feeling is that from a moral point of view,

427
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:49.480
<v Speaker 2>I have no doubt about his guilt or innocence. He's

428
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.720
<v Speaker 2>fled out, and he needed right, right, right, and and

429
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.799
<v Speaker 2>we certainly have the aggravating circumstances that no sentilla of doubt,

430
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:01.480
<v Speaker 2>So it fits my my standard. I also believe that

431
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:06.039
<v Speaker 2>the amount of money that we're gonna utilize to feed

432
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.759
<v Speaker 2>and house him and give him a lot of the

433
00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.599
<v Speaker 2>comforts that he will have for the balance of his

434
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:15.519
<v Speaker 2>life could be better used to help people in this

435
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.799
<v Speaker 2>country who have anyone.

436
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:21.960
<v Speaker 5>I wouldn't call being in a supermax prison comfortable.

437
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:24.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I mean, here's the thing, Harvey, You

438
00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:28.160
<v Speaker 2>and I know that he can. He can meet religious

439
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:31.640
<v Speaker 2>whatever religious leaders he wants. He can be visited by

440
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.160
<v Speaker 2>family and friends. He can as time goes on, he

441
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:39.000
<v Speaker 2>will get some of the privileges of time. I'm sure

442
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.799
<v Speaker 2>that he gets to watch some level of television. They

443
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:46.559
<v Speaker 2>don't put him in a cell twenty four you know,

444
00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:48.759
<v Speaker 2>three sixty five twenty four seven, because that would be

445
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:54.759
<v Speaker 2>violation of the Eighth Amendment cruel and unusual punishment. And

446
00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:58.240
<v Speaker 2>if he behaves himself, if he behaves himself over time,

447
00:27:58.279 --> 00:28:01.480
<v Speaker 2>he will he will be treated better.

448
00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:05.000
<v Speaker 5>It will never get out though.

449
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.559
<v Speaker 2>They would never get out, there's no question never get out.

450
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:14.319
<v Speaker 2>And the only the only UH person who faced the

451
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:17.480
<v Speaker 2>death penalty who told his lawyers to drop all appeals

452
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:19.839
<v Speaker 2>that I know of, and you probably know more than

453
00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:24.119
<v Speaker 2>I do, was Timothy McVeigh. You know everyone has said

454
00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:26.079
<v Speaker 2>to me, oh, the death penalty is the easy way out.

455
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:27.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's the easy way out in the

456
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:31.119
<v Speaker 2>minds of most killers. Harvey's from a you know, from

457
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 2>a from an argumentative point of view, most people who

458
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:40.640
<v Speaker 2>are facing the death penalty fight it till the end legally,

459
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:43.720
<v Speaker 2>in everything that's available to them. None of them say, oh,

460
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, I want the easy way out. They say, no,

461
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to fight this to the end. And yet

462
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>my friends will always tell me, oh, it's it's the

463
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.839
<v Speaker 2>death penalty is the easy way out. I don't know

464
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.519
<v Speaker 2>too many mass killers, and in this case, this guy

465
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.920
<v Speaker 2>would be a mass killer who sees the death penalty

466
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.400
<v Speaker 2>as an easy way out. How let me ask you this.

467
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.480
<v Speaker 2>You know the system as well as anybody. He's been

468
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:12.799
<v Speaker 2>on death row now since twenty fifteen, convicted in twenty fifteen.

469
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.599
<v Speaker 2>How long How much longer do you think he will

470
00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:18.680
<v Speaker 2>be able to come up with his lawyers will come

471
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 2>up with appellet ideas that will string it out. How

472
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:25.160
<v Speaker 2>many more years do you think he'll have before he

473
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:28.319
<v Speaker 2>will face that moment in time, assuming the death penalty

474
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:32.640
<v Speaker 2>is not eliminated in our country.

475
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.839
<v Speaker 5>Well, I think I think this is the end of

476
00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:42.640
<v Speaker 5>the road. But of course creative lawyer can usually flame something.

477
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:44.960
<v Speaker 5>But I think this is the end of the road.

478
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean O'Toole has refused to recuse himself. I

479
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.720
<v Speaker 2>have premendous respect for Georgie O'Toole. I think I know

480
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.039
<v Speaker 2>you well enough to know that you respect O'Toole as well.

481
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:02.079
<v Speaker 2>He's a good judge and uh and not you know,

482
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:05.799
<v Speaker 2>not that that most judges aren't good judges, but he is,

483
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, a particularly experienced judge. I don't know

484
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.359
<v Speaker 2>how much, how much time you've been in how often

485
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:13.440
<v Speaker 2>you've been in front of him, but he's got a

486
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:17.880
<v Speaker 2>great reputation. Uh. And I assume that they're going to

487
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.160
<v Speaker 2>take his his his refusal to accuse himself up and

488
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.079
<v Speaker 2>appeal that. So there's another set of appeals.

489
00:30:24.759 --> 00:30:26.079
<v Speaker 5>Right, They'll they'll lose that.

490
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it will take Tod. It will take Tod, Harvey.

491
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.599
<v Speaker 2>I so respect your your intellect and your your moral compass.

492
00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:37.599
<v Speaker 2>And I wish I could agree with you on this one,

493
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>but I don't. And I really appreciate you. You challenge

494
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.119
<v Speaker 2>me on this every time, and it makes me think.

495
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.279
<v Speaker 2>And I really do appreciate your friendship and your challenge here.

496
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Thank you much, my friend. Right, Oh, by Howie Silverglate,

497
00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.640
<v Speaker 2>there there there's no if I haven't had a serious

498
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>criminal case, a criminal charge, Harvey would be my gut

499
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:04.160
<v Speaker 2>to go do. I would advise any of you in

500
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:06.440
<v Speaker 2>similar fashion. We got to take a break. I got

501
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.519
<v Speaker 2>salin Ohio coming up. I got Mark and Cambridge. I

502
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:09.880
<v Speaker 2>got a little bit of room for you. Six months

503
00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:13.720
<v Speaker 2>seven two four thirty, six months, seven nine thirty. Be

504
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.720
<v Speaker 2>right back here on night's side. And by the way,

505
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.519
<v Speaker 2>tomorrow night, the BSY car guys will be with us

506
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.799
<v Speaker 2>from ten until twelve. I know that's a favorite guest

507
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:24.480
<v Speaker 2>of many of you. It's time the spring driving season

508
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.799
<v Speaker 2>come on, and the Bzy Car guys are going to

509
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.240
<v Speaker 2>be here tomorrow night from ten to twelve. And we

510
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:35.799
<v Speaker 2>will also have former state Representative Dave Nagel, who spent

511
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:40.640
<v Speaker 2>time in federal prison. He ran into a problem with gambling,

512
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>gambling debts and then did some things which for which

513
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Speaker 2>he admitted used money that he should not have used

514
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:53.119
<v Speaker 2>campaign money, not public money, but campaign money. And he

515
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 2>spent seven months in prison. It was sentenced to a

516
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:56.640
<v Speaker 2>year and a half. And we're going to talk to

517
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 2>him tomorrow night about life and is it and what

518
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:06.400
<v Speaker 2>he regrets, uh, and now how he will be able

519
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.440
<v Speaker 2>and I think he will be able to build his

520
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>life back up. So it's a uh, it's a story

521
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:16.759
<v Speaker 2>of reclamation tomorrow night, as as well as your crime

522
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:19.240
<v Speaker 2>and punishment as well. We'll be back right after this

523
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:20.039
<v Speaker 2>on Nightside.

524
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:25.839
<v Speaker 1>You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.

525
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, back to the phones. We're going to get both

526
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:31.839
<v Speaker 2>the sale in market. Let's start off with Sal in Ohio. Sal.

527
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:32.920
<v Speaker 2>You were next on Nightside.

528
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 8>Welcome, Hi Dan, nice talking to you. Can you hear me?

529
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.559
<v Speaker 5>Okay, I can hear you, find sir, go right ahead, okay,

530
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:40.440
<v Speaker 5>all right.

531
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:45.400
<v Speaker 8>As far as due process, you know, I followed, I followed,

532
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.160
<v Speaker 8>I followed the bombing and such. But how does the

533
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:56.559
<v Speaker 8>families heal if if this keeps coming up, if there

534
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:00.240
<v Speaker 8>is anything about healing after you lose someone like at

535
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.079
<v Speaker 8>least someone does something tragic like that, But how do

536
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.799
<v Speaker 8>people get on with get on with their lives if

537
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.960
<v Speaker 8>to me? For me, I've tried to follow his sister

538
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:16.640
<v Speaker 8>Helen Praijan movement. I don't believe that. I think we

539
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 8>should just have have a cut and dry your lifer.

540
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.759
<v Speaker 8>You've been sound guilty, and don't tie up the legal

541
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.000
<v Speaker 8>system and all the everybody. You know, somebody's gonna some

542
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.359
<v Speaker 8>attorneys some days are going to make a book or

543
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.119
<v Speaker 8>something about what they how they defended somebody.

544
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.920
<v Speaker 5>Again, Yeah, I just understand that.

545
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 2>By the way, I understand, I know, I know who

546
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Helen Prejean is. I understand that, and I respect her opinion.

547
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:50.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't agree with it. I just think that in

548
00:33:50.839 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 2>my opinion, sal and it's only my opinion that there

549
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:57.880
<v Speaker 2>are certain levels of crime. And if someone you know.

550
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:00.160
<v Speaker 5>Breaks into a store masterardly.

551
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.559
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, Yeah. What I'm saying is if someone

552
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 2>breaks into a store and they've done it repeatedly, or

553
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 2>they get caught stealing something out of a store, that's

554
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>one level of crime. If someone goes in the street

555
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.199
<v Speaker 2>and they have a gun and they threaten someone, well

556
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.440
<v Speaker 2>that that raises the stakes a little bit. And but

557
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:18.840
<v Speaker 2>in terms of what these guys did, I think everyone

558
00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:21.159
<v Speaker 2>and you use the word dastardly, I agree with you.

559
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:23.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's just no way to defend it. I mean,

560
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:25.599
<v Speaker 2>it's as simple. It is as simple.

561
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:27.639
<v Speaker 8>As I don't think that you know, you know, as

562
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.079
<v Speaker 8>as as if we want to be true Christians, we're

563
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:34.880
<v Speaker 8>supposed to forgive everything. We're supposed to not we're not

564
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 8>supposed to keep punishing. Really, Jesus probably wouldn't have prisons.

565
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:43.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know about that. Well, say, here's a

566
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:47.519
<v Speaker 2>different thing. If here, if you're my neighbor and all

567
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden you come over and you steal something

568
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:55.880
<v Speaker 2>out of my house, uh, and I see you stealing

569
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.639
<v Speaker 2>it and running away, and I will go over to

570
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.400
<v Speaker 2>you and I will say, look, you stole that. I

571
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.000
<v Speaker 2>want it back. And if you give it to me back,

572
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.599
<v Speaker 2>I might say, look, don't do that again. So, but

573
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:12.840
<v Speaker 2>society has an interest above and beyond my forgiving heart

574
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:16.480
<v Speaker 2>to prosecute you for doing something.

575
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.360
<v Speaker 8>You know, I understand that, And I mean, look at

576
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:23.519
<v Speaker 8>the volumes and volumes of law that there is. But

577
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.360
<v Speaker 8>I understand that. But I think I really think that

578
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:31.800
<v Speaker 8>we need to look at other countries. I don't think

579
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:34.559
<v Speaker 8>great Great Britain has I don't think that they have

580
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:36.239
<v Speaker 8>death penalty.

581
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I think you're right. I think you're right. And again

582
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.159
<v Speaker 2>we're a different country where the United States of America we're.

583
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:44.519
<v Speaker 8>We have three hundred and fifty million people too.

584
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.280
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I mean again, look, here's the thing. If

585
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.000
<v Speaker 2>if you do, if you truly in your heart believe

586
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.960
<v Speaker 2>that this guy should not get the death penalty, I

587
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:56.639
<v Speaker 2>understand that Okay, I respect you. I don't agree with you,

588
00:35:56.679 --> 00:35:57.519
<v Speaker 2>but I respect you.

589
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.920
<v Speaker 8>I'm on the bench. I'm kind of on the fence

590
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:05.960
<v Speaker 8>because if some if something happened directly into my family,

591
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:11.039
<v Speaker 8>you know, with something I probably I might be inclined

592
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:12.079
<v Speaker 8>to change my opinion.

593
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:12.559
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

594
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.079
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

595
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:14.360
<v Speaker 5>I don't know what I'm.

596
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Saying is morally your opinion should be if you're based

597
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:20.440
<v Speaker 2>it on a true moral foundation, it should be the

598
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:24.760
<v Speaker 2>same whether it's your family or your neighbor's family. Well, anyway, hey, Sal,

599
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:26.239
<v Speaker 2>I got one more I got to get in here.

600
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Really interesting phone call. I don't know how often. I

601
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:32.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you've called before, but i'd invite you

602
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.519
<v Speaker 2>to continue to call my program Always welcome.

603
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.320
<v Speaker 8>One other time, and we disagreed on Donald Trump a

604
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.239
<v Speaker 8>long time ago, It's like twenty fifteen.

605
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:42.519
<v Speaker 5>But I listened to you, and people are listening to you.

606
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:42.920
<v Speaker 5>All right.

607
00:36:43.000 --> 00:36:43.760
<v Speaker 8>You have a good night.

608
00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:46.079
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Sale. Where about to Ohio you call it from?

609
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:46.880
<v Speaker 2>I love to know what.

610
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.320
<v Speaker 8>How many people from Ohio?

611
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:52.480
<v Speaker 5>Pittsburgh I've heard of?

612
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Stupid Ville? Yeah, absolutely great, Sam, Thanks thanks much. Sal.

613
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.159
<v Speaker 2>Let me go next to Mark and Cambridge. Mark, you're

614
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.920
<v Speaker 2>gonna wrap the hour for us here nightside. What's your

615
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.320
<v Speaker 2>thought on due process for the Boston boment number two?

616
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:09.800
<v Speaker 6>My call again, You're welcome. The Celtics one anyway.

617
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.199
<v Speaker 2>The one last night, that one last night.

618
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:18.639
<v Speaker 6>Yep, yeah, anyway, let's get so. Anyway, in my opinion,

619
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.079
<v Speaker 6>due process and justice should have been served that day

620
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:26.920
<v Speaker 6>when they call him on that boat and he was

621
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:30.199
<v Speaker 6>in that boat. Due profice and justice should i've been

622
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:32.480
<v Speaker 6>served that day.

623
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:35.840
<v Speaker 2>No, I understand your opinion. I disagree with that because

624
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.239
<v Speaker 2>that's not what this society is about, and I think

625
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:43.360
<v Speaker 2>that's a yeah, we could disagree and that. So therefore,

626
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:47.000
<v Speaker 2>I assume you agree with me that it is time

627
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.480
<v Speaker 2>as long since passed for this guy to be breathing,

628
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, the fresh air that all of us are

629
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.280
<v Speaker 2>breathing or whatever there is being pumped into the Supermax

630
00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:57.679
<v Speaker 2>in Colorado.

631
00:37:57.480 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 6>But to make it to the bop it up real quick.

632
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.239
<v Speaker 6>Due process, in my opinion again, should only be for

633
00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:09.280
<v Speaker 6>naturally born American citizens. If you here on is here visiting,

634
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:13.039
<v Speaker 6>and you commit a crime, due process should not apply. Again,

635
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:14.079
<v Speaker 6>that's my opinion.

636
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, the courts have held otherwise. The courts have

637
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:23.000
<v Speaker 2>held otherwise. However, However, the thing that to me is

638
00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:27.719
<v Speaker 2>most interesting in my opinion, is that there is no

639
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:33.519
<v Speaker 2>clear definition of due process that says to get full

640
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 2>due process, you've got to go through steps one through ten.

641
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.280
<v Speaker 2>So you can have a different level of due process

642
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:43.800
<v Speaker 2>for different circumstances. Okay, this guy is getting much more

643
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.159
<v Speaker 2>due process than he deserves because of the crime that

644
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:50.079
<v Speaker 2>he committed. In terms off, you're a US citizen, you

645
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:53.800
<v Speaker 2>have full due process rights. If you're someone who here

646
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:57.440
<v Speaker 2>is here illegally and it was committed a crime while

647
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:01.840
<v Speaker 2>you while you're here, you get what I would call

648
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:06.800
<v Speaker 2>expedited due process. If you get my drift, okay, a

649
00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:09.440
<v Speaker 2>different form. It's like you go to a restaurant. You

650
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.320
<v Speaker 2>can order the whole meal. You can order the everything

651
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.480
<v Speaker 2>from soup to nuts, or you get a sandwich. You

652
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:20.920
<v Speaker 2>still had a meal, it was just a little different. Hey, look,

653
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:23.559
<v Speaker 2>I always appreciate you call Mark. You and I pretty

654
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:27.480
<v Speaker 2>much here on the same page. Thanks, buddy, You have

655
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:30.639
<v Speaker 2>a great night. We get back right after the not

656
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.880
<v Speaker 2>the ten o'clock news. Here on nightside. I want to

657
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:37.400
<v Speaker 2>talk about the Trump administration's decision to arrest judges. We

658
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.280
<v Speaker 2>have a case here, which is one that you might

659
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.360
<v Speaker 2>be familiar with, but there's a case down in Wisconsin,

660
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:46.760
<v Speaker 2>in New Mexico where judges are facing some very serious

661
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:51.400
<v Speaker 2>federal charges, and I suspect we'll get some good different

662
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.519
<v Speaker 2>points of view on this in the next hour back

663
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:54.639
<v Speaker 2>on night Side right after this