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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where

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we left off with Michael Thomas and his interview with

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the OIG Inspectors. Question. All right, so let's say I

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did Control Center or anyone else called the shoe on

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August tenth, twenty nineteen, about Epstein's cell maate leaving or

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the need for Epstein to have another cell mate assigned. Thomas. No,

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that would have been done prior to my shift. Question. Okay,

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but not during your shift, Thomas, not during the midnight. No,

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that would have been done prior. And as you guys

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can tell, this is a bit disjointed and Thomas is

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being very very coy. Thomas, not during the midnight. No,

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that would have been done prior. Question. All right, So,

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being that you've been in the BOP since twenty seventeen, Thomas,

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two thousand and seven. Question, Sorry and seven. That's what

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I meant. I apologize in that Epstein was required to

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have a cell mate after Reyes left on August ninth.

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What should have happened? Who should have taken appropriate action?

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Can you just kind of walk me through how that

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process should have taken place, Thomas, I mean, by my knowledge,

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like you said, from being in for work. If he

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would have left, it would have been communicated to the

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officers via R and D that somebody had left. Question,

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and how would have R and D would have been

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the first people to notify Thomas? Yes, R and D

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would be Yeah. R and D would be the first

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people to notify that an inmate has been released Thomas,

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taken off count been released? Taken off count? Question? Okay?

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And then who would R and D contact Thomas? So

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R and D would contact both control center and he

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gets cut off the lieutenant Thomas. Yeah. Question would they

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at all contact the shoe or the place where the

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inmate was being released from? Thomas? Yeah? Well, R and

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D would contact Shoe and let them know that somebody

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had been released. Mister redacted. So, in this case, Reyes

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was released on August ninth, should have they called all three?

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They should call the control center or R and D

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should have contacted looks like Lieutenant redacted or potentially redacted,

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as well as control center and the Shoe staff, mister Thomas.

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In a perfect world, R and D, We'll call Lieutenant's office,

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call control and call the Shoe. I'm sure somebody had

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to call the Shoe and let them know that their

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base count had changed. Question Okay, Thomas. One way or another,

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somebody called control to let them know that the base

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count had changed. Who did they call? I don't know,

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but during that because the courts closed at eight question

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Okay Thomas, at the latest. Yeah, I believe it's eight pm,

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So somebody called and let them know. R and D

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got the first call that there would be somebody gone

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off your count? Question Okay, So it wouldn't be like

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they called the opsolueutenant and the oppsoluetenant would then call

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the Shoe. R and D typically would actually call all

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three Thomas. Usually, but I have been when R and

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D had called all three. I've been here when the

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Control center have called the Shoe and let them know, Yo,

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your base count has changed. Such and such has been

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released or such a bunch has been moved to a

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different housing unit. Yeah. Question okay Thomas. But usually you

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get a call either from R and D or control center.

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Question not the oppsolutenant, Thomas. I mean I've been in

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when the lieutenant called, but not not typically the obsolutenant.

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Question all right, So it's typically control center Thomas, Typically

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your control center or R and D will call and

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let you know that their base count have changed. Question,

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and you've been present when that's actually taking place? Thomas, Yeah,

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I've been present when that's taken place. Question in the

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shoe Thomas, Yeah, I've been present in the shoe when

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it's taken place. Question Okay, so how soon after so

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Epstein is required to have a cell mate? How soon

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after Rey's departure, should have Epstein been assigned to cell mate? Thomas? Well,

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that comes from the Shoe lieutenant and from operations and

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the staff member that had to be there. Question, So,

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who who had the responsibility to fill Epstein's cell mate requirement?

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Who had the responsibility to place Epstein with a new

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cell mate? Thomas, I don't know off hand. I don't

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know off hand who had the responsibility, But it had

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to come from either the Shoe lieutenant, I would say first,

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since he's a high profile, I would say from the

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Shoe lieutenant. Question Okay, and were you We touched on

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this before, but in this specific instance, were were you there? Thomas?

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I wasn't there. Question, so would have you if you

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were there? Would have been authorized to assign him a

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new cell mate, Thomas, if I was there and it

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came down from higher ups to assign somebody, Yes, if

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I was there, yes. Question So if somebody else told

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you to Thomas. Yeah, if somebody told me, if the

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Shoe lieutenant told me that, oh listen, he needs this

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and such like that, yeah, just go like that. Because

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he's high I wouldn't just put somebody in his cell

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Question Okay, what about Shoe staff that weren't informed by

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higher ups? Shoe staff there could have they assigned Epstein

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with a new cell mate, even temporarily Thomas. Could they

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have question authorized Thomas? Were they question? I meant that

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theoretically they could have, as in, like you can do anything, Thomas,

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you can do anything you want, he gets cut off.

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But were they authorized to have Thomas cuts him off? No?

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Not the high profile. No, I don't think they're authorized.

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Question Okay Thomas, I don't know offhand, but I wouldn't

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say from my knowledge for being I wouldn't say that

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they're authorized. It would have to come from somebody else. Question. Okay,

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so the people that are working in the Shoe, what

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action should have they taken? As soon as they were

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aware that Epstein's cell mate had left. Thomas, what are

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we talking about? Question? So, if they're, you know, supposed

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to be conducting counts, supposed to be conducting rounds, as

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soon as they notice, Hey, Reyes is gone, Epstein has

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required davissel mate, is it their responsibility to notify someone? Hey,

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get on the phone and call the oppso lieutenant, Control

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center or whomever. Thomas, I would call. I would call somebody,

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call somebody and let them know Operations Epstein needs a

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cell may question? Right, so he gets cut off now

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by Thomas, Shoe lieutenant if he's there, Thomas, or excuse me?

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Question So the Shoe lieutenant, Thomas, if the first person

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he gets cut off has gone on leave, Thomas, If

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the Shoe lieutenant has gone on leave, call the operations lieutenant.

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Question Okay, all right, now we're going to talk a

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little bit more about what about rounds and counts. So

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the cell count what officially? What is that? Is it

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obtaining the official number of inmates in the housing unit? Thomas? Yeah?

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Question okay, And can you just explain the process? You

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touched on it before, but now can you actually explain,

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Like so, when you're in the shoe, for instance, and

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your he gets cut off. What timeframe are we talking about? Question?

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So your time frame, let's talk about when you're specifically there.

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You're there from twelve am to eight am. Correct Thomas, yes, question,

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And you were there for both August ninth and August tenth.

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When should you have been conducting the accounts and how

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should they have been conducted? Thomas. How it happens is

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one officer goes up. You have the door key to

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the grills, the outside grill. In the outside grill, one

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officer walks around count verified, do one count. Then the

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other officer go around count, and then you all combine

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your numbers at the end. You can bind your numbers

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at the end of each tier and then you tally

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up the numbers at the end. Most people write them

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down on a piece of paper on your hand back

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of the counclip. It could be a number of different

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various where people write them down. But one person goes

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around count, the next person goes around count. You all

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say tell each other the number I got fifteen, I

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got fifteen, boom. Then you move on to the next tier.

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Do the same form for all six tiers, and then

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you tally up the numbers at the end. Question Okay.

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So when one staff member is counting the inmates on

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each tier, Thomas cuts them off. They're the one standing

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at the grill. Question at the grill? And can you

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just explain what the grill is? Thomas, It's just the door. Question.

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Is the door closed or open? Thomas? Typically it's closed,

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but some people leave it open. Question Okay, So one

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person remains outside of the tier basically at the door

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Thomas at the door with the key. Question, and then

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one staff member goes around checks on all the inmates.

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When and how do they check the inmates Thomas. They

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look inside if it's covered, they look inside a window,

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look inside of the glass. I can't tell you the

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diameter of it, but you look inside the glass and

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you see where the inmates are. Question now the twelve

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am is there account that's supposed to be done at

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twelve am and three am? Thomas, twelve, three and five? Question?

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All am? Thomas, all am? Yes. Question and during that time,

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when you look at the window of the door, what

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is it you're supposed to see? Question? You verify flesh,

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make sure you can see somebody, see somebody's skin. Question

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do you need to see a movement Thomas, No, because

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they could be asleep. Question does that mean you're supposed

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to hit the door or anything? Make sure Thomas No,

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gets an interrupted. See if they're all good, Thomas, they're

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still human beings. No, they're asleep at twelve midnight. Some

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are up playing chess, some are writing letters, some are asleep.

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You don't hit the door to make sure they're moving.

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Question do you shine a flashlight in Thomas? Some have

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a flashlight? You have? He gets cut off, No, do

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you Thomas, Yeah, I'll have a flashlight and I'll just

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flash and see live breathing skin. They could be under

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the blanket or anything like that. Question okay? And is

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the purpose to make what's the purpose Thomas, to make

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sure nobody escaped and see a body inside? Question a

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live body question or answer? We have a live body question? Okay?

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A live body okay? And that is the process in

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the shoe, correct, like, not only in the institution, but

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in the shoe, Thomas, that's the process in the institution.

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Question right, including the shoe Thomas, Yeah. Question okay. And

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when conducting counts, do CEOs have to speak with inmates? Thomas?

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We don't have to question. No, Now, explain to me

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what's around? Question or answer? Same process question, same Thomas,

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same process question. So every thirty minutes you actually have

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to take account as well, Thomas. No, you don't have

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to take the count. The same process without the count,

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the counting of numbers. You just walk around and verify

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somebody's inside, mister addacted. Just like you said with the count,

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each one has to go around and see if their

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numbers match up. Thomas. No, you don't have to round

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and see if the numbers match up. No, you just

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verify that there's a body inside. Question. But does somebody

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have to stand at the grille and other person walk

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down and have to switch places and do the same

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thing Thomas, Yes, question both ways, Thomas, yes question. Okay,

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So it's the same process aside from Thomas, aside from

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the count question. Okay, so it's identical other than you're

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actually counting during the count, Thomas, the exactly what you

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just said. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,

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and then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're

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gonna pick up where we left off. All of the

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information that goes with this episode can be found in

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the description box,