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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right

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back to the unnamed captain from the MCC and his

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interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, so, give me a

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little background on Reyes. What was he in for? Answer?

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I believe Reyes was Hispanic older mel I believe that

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particular inmate was in for. I think he was in

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for a child some type of sexual stuff I can't remember.

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Answer or question some kind of charge with charge dealing

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with sexual he gets caught off with, you know those

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types of charges, A similar charge to that, similar to

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Epstein I believe or I can't remember. Question Okay, was

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he when he was being vetted? Was he close to

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like a release date or anything like that an anticipated

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release date? Answer? No one knew that. Because this is

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what you need to understand about MCC. MCC and MDC

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are basically jails. They're not prisons. It's a jail. So

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that means if a guy goes to court, you know,

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you get locked up, and then the next day you

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might go to court, the judge might say, no, I'm

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releasing you. We don't know. Question sure answer the only

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time we'll know is when the inmates come back from court.

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Where's this guy at? He was released? Okay, now we

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got this guy still in our account. So if they

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don't bring a transfer order, our account is bad. So

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they're going to bring the transfer order back with them

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for court line. These guys got released. So normally court

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line is over before four, so we try to get

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these guys up. Do some inmates come back after four? Yes,

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they do, but however we don't know if an inmate

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goes out to court if they're coming back. However, there

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is times when they put out the roster and it's

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given to as far as all correctional officers that work

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the units, and it'll say court line. Inmate reyis using

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him as an example, WAB. That means that he has

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to come downstairs with all his belongings. So if they

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say it, that means he's not coming back. That's either

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he's transferring to another BOP facility or he's going to

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be released to the street. But I can guarantee you

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that that transfer of that roster that inmate Reyes was

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on that day, it didn't say WAB because it would

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have said WAB. The first thing that the OIC should

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have said, that's my orange tag guy, because I made

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them do all the orange tag guys, and I made

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them put up, put them up on the board. Epstein

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is that orange tag guy. He's supposed to have a

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SELLI wab oh cap shoe. Lieutenant wasn't there, but he

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would have called me directly, Hey, so and so don't

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have a cell question? Yeah, So how long did it

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take to vet? You know? I know you said you

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started it with ten and then it brought down to

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three and then the regional director ultimately decided the one.

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But how long does the process take? Answer? I believe

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it took on thinking we did it. We did a day.

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It took a day. I mean we actually went and

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you know, I don't know. I know either the Warden

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and I was having a lengthy conversation because the warden

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wanted to ensure redacted philosophy when dealing with mister Epstein

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was this he's another inmate, and what he tried to

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get across to executive staff and what he tried to

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get across to us as me as the captain to

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when I disseminated down to the subordinate staff. This is

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another inmate who cares about what his charges are, or

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since he's sensationalized in the media, nobody cares. We're going

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to manage him appropriately because if you know anything about

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jails and the BOP, especially Brooklyn and MCC, we don't

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run those jails. The courts run those jails. So and

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that's the truth. The court, the judges, whatever the judge

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says goes so, and that's unfortunate. But that's neither here

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nor there. So redacted wanted to have to say, no,

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this is the inmate. Yeah, he has certain charges, but

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we're going to make sure he gets everything that all

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the inmates get when they come to MCC. The inmates

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are going to get proper care. The inmate is going

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to get showers, the inmate is going to be fed,

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whatever it may be. But however, after those situations with

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Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative, when

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it shows that he was trying to get things for

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unnecessary gain or he would do anything to get anything

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that would benefit him, we had to take some different protocols.

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We had to take a different they had to take

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a different approach, different mindset with this guy, or the

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way we managed them had to change because we already

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had this guy saying that he was going to be

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killed and all this stuff or whatever. So we just

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wanted to make sure a moving forward, we put protocols

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in place that will protect us as an agency. Question. So,

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speaking of protocols, was it discussed then when you were

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vetting these, Hey, we have an inmate constantly moving out

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of here. If Ras is moved, one of these other

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two that were down to the three would be moved

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in with them. Was that discussed? Answer? No, he would

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just basically because like I said again, at MCC, you

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wouldn't know how long the duration on the inmates day question.

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Sure answer, You wouldn't know questions, so you just have

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to start the vetting process over again. Answer all over again.

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Whoever is available in the unit that may be single

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selled because as you know, our policy and protocol in

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the Bureau of Prisons are dealing with restricted inmates and

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special housing units. They cannot be sold alone. They must

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have a cell mate. Question in the special housing unit,

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everyone must have a cell mate answer. Uh huh question,

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Oh I didn't know that, So every single one needs

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to have a cell mate answer, except because it's one

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of the areas that we didn't discuss. Outside of ten South,

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there was a range that was meant for or it

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was like a step down from ten South that only

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had one man cell occupancy, which was on G range.

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Question Okay, was that part of the special housing unit? Answer?

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Uh huh. Question. So there's a part of the special

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housing unit that is a one man occupancy another part

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that has two men occupancy. Answer that's correct. Question okay,

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And Epstein was housed in the two man occupancy. Answer

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yep Question was it ever discussed to put him in

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one of the one man occupancies? Answer no question, no answer,

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because all those cells were filled with inmates that were

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vetted that needed that type of supervision. Question okay, answer,

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You had inmates in there that if they were they

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were put with other inmates inside of special housing, they

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would die, they would be assaulted. So we have to

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make those considerations. So the protocols of how we dealt

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with inmates according to their situation. I believe it was sound.

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But guess what you can only you're like the coach.

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I can make the game plan, but if the players

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are not executing the game plan, whose fault is that?

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Is it? The coach or the player question and exactly,

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and that's what we're doing here. We're Monday morning quarterbacking.

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We're just saying like, all right, this is and that's

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why we're going back through it. So the Wharton directed

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or redacted on multiple occasions at Epstein needed a cell

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mate at all times, and redacted informed as lieutenants the

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same redacted repeatedly directed his shoe lieutenant redacted that Epstein

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needed a cell mate at all times. Additionally, redacted visited

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the shoe on multiple occasions and directed staff to be

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very alert and attentive about Epstein's special accommodations. So when

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you say that about the shoe staff, did you also

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inform the shoe staff that Epstein needed to have a

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cell mate? Answer? Yes, question, Oh so they were all aware?

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Answer yes. Question. Can you look at the shoe staff

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for both of August ninth and the very early morning

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hours of August tenth. Can you just list the people

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and let me know if you inform those people? Answer? So, basically,

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my hours of work were normally, let's just say seven

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thirty to four, So I ensured that it wasn't within

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one week, but it was a process of doing rounds.

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So I try to hit every shift. So I hit

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the day watch because that's the one I work. Evening watch,

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I stay over late, I walk up there. Hey, guys,

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this is the situation. Let's make sure that you know

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we're paying attention. And then morning watch of course, so

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beginning at eight am. Then on August ninth, can you

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just look at this is a question. Now, can you

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look to who and name the people? Can you just

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name who was in the shoe and if you ever

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had any conversation with them, if they were aware? Answer? Okay,

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let me see here. Well, we had redacted. I talked

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to redacted and redacted he was in there. Redacted redacted

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was one of the guys that was up there as

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a wreck officer. Answer Saul gets cut off. Him picks

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back up with the question, all of those people were

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you had conversations specifically with them and they know? Answer,

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I've talked with these guys. Question absolutely. Can you just

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name the other people for the shifts after him? I

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think they just gets cut off by the captain. You

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got now, m Thomas, M Thomas, what you need to

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understand is that he would have been because you know,

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like I said, overtime non custody. He's non custody staff.

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I don't have conversations with him. Question. Okay, so Michael

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Thomas may not have known answer right because realistically the

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morning watch an evening watch shift. People don't like to

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come to work. So if you sign up for overtime,

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you say, oh, shoot, two is open, Okay, I'll take it.

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But you're non custody, so that means anybody can work it.

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A teacher, a food service foreman. Answer, is the shoe

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easier to work than the other units? Answer? I wouldn't

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say it's easier, but it's less labor intensive. Question okay,

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answer because in my opinion from when I work special housing,

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special housing was always hard work because I'm going to

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tell you why. You have to be vigilant. And when

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I mean vigilant, you have to understand when you're working

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that unit, anything can happen. It could be quiet, but

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guess what if you're not walking looking in those cells,

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testing the security protocols, meaning making sure the flaps are closed,

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making sure that the doors are locked. You want to

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know that in shoe sometimes doors was unlocked or flaps

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opened to chase doors. Those food services the service flap,

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you know, making rounds, making sure that the inmates are

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not have coverings up when you open up. What do

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you call it? Question the window? Answer the window or

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putting a towel over the bed and the light from

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you being able to observe them. Question But then how

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gets cut off? And what I said about what I

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want to get back to because I know about the

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statement about the doors being left open. I'm talking about

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more in general population as far as when you're making rounds,

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those types of things you test, making sure the door

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is secure, making sure the food slots are secure. Question

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uh huh, answer by the captain as an officer coming up,

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even as a lieutenant, do you know that I've actually

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walked into a unit and pulled on the door that's

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supposed to be secure and the inmate is wide open?

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Question wow? Ever at mcc answer no, because that wasn't

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my capacity, that wasn't my job. But as a line

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officer subordinate, and also when I was lieutenant making rounds,

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that's what I would do when I hit a unit.

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It wasn't just to talk to staff. I would walk

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in and look at the security protocols in the unit.

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Is there a fire extinguisher. There. Good, Your phone work,

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computers work. Hey, let's walk the block, pulling on doors,

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pulling on food slots, showing trying to train officers. That's

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what I used to do. Question, lead by example, answer

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and guess what happens. You would find stuff because people

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in a hurry enough to go home on that evening.

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Watch the inmates know their doors are locked, but they

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know they're going to come out because if they come out,

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there's a situation. But they'll sit up there and leave

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it open. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,

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and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're

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gonna pick up where we left off. All the information

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that goes with this episode can be found in the

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description box.