Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right
back to the unnamed captain from the MCC and his
interview with the OIG inspectors. Question, so, give me a
little background on Reyes. What was he in for? Answer?
I believe Reyes was Hispanic older mel I believe that
particular inmate was in for. I think he was in
for a child some type of sexual stuff I can't remember.
Answer or question some kind of charge with charge dealing
with sexual he gets caught off with, you know those
types of charges, A similar charge to that, similar to
Epstein I believe or I can't remember. Question Okay, was
he when he was being vetted? Was he close to
like a release date or anything like that an anticipated
release date? Answer? No one knew that. Because this is
what you need to understand about MCC. MCC and MDC
are basically jails. They're not prisons. It's a jail. So
that means if a guy goes to court, you know,
you get locked up, and then the next day you
might go to court, the judge might say, no, I'm
releasing you. We don't know. Question sure answer the only
time we'll know is when the inmates come back from court.
Where's this guy at? He was released? Okay, now we
got this guy still in our account. So if they
don't bring a transfer order, our account is bad. So
they're going to bring the transfer order back with them
for court line. These guys got released. So normally court
line is over before four, so we try to get
these guys up. Do some inmates come back after four? Yes,
they do, but however we don't know if an inmate
goes out to court if they're coming back. However, there
is times when they put out the roster and it's
given to as far as all correctional officers that work
the units, and it'll say court line. Inmate reyis using
him as an example, WAB. That means that he has
to come downstairs with all his belongings. So if they
say it, that means he's not coming back. That's either
he's transferring to another BOP facility or he's going to
be released to the street. But I can guarantee you
that that transfer of that roster that inmate Reyes was
on that day, it didn't say WAB because it would
have said WAB. The first thing that the OIC should
have said, that's my orange tag guy, because I made
them do all the orange tag guys, and I made
them put up, put them up on the board. Epstein
is that orange tag guy. He's supposed to have a
SELLI wab oh cap shoe. Lieutenant wasn't there, but he
would have called me directly, Hey, so and so don't
have a cell question? Yeah, So how long did it
take to vet? You know? I know you said you
started it with ten and then it brought down to
three and then the regional director ultimately decided the one.
But how long does the process take? Answer? I believe
it took on thinking we did it. We did a day.
It took a day. I mean we actually went and
you know, I don't know. I know either the Warden
and I was having a lengthy conversation because the warden
wanted to ensure redacted philosophy when dealing with mister Epstein
was this he's another inmate, and what he tried to
get across to executive staff and what he tried to
get across to us as me as the captain to
when I disseminated down to the subordinate staff. This is
another inmate who cares about what his charges are, or
since he's sensationalized in the media, nobody cares. We're going
to manage him appropriately because if you know anything about
jails and the BOP, especially Brooklyn and MCC, we don't
run those jails. The courts run those jails. So and
that's the truth. The court, the judges, whatever the judge
says goes so, and that's unfortunate. But that's neither here
nor there. So redacted wanted to have to say, no,
this is the inmate. Yeah, he has certain charges, but
we're going to make sure he gets everything that all
the inmates get when they come to MCC. The inmates
are going to get proper care. The inmate is going
to get showers, the inmate is going to be fed,
whatever it may be. But however, after those situations with
Epstein where it showed that his behavior was manipulative, when
it shows that he was trying to get things for
unnecessary gain or he would do anything to get anything
that would benefit him, we had to take some different protocols.
We had to take a different they had to take
a different approach, different mindset with this guy, or the
way we managed them had to change because we already
had this guy saying that he was going to be
killed and all this stuff or whatever. So we just
wanted to make sure a moving forward, we put protocols
in place that will protect us as an agency. Question. So,
speaking of protocols, was it discussed then when you were
vetting these, Hey, we have an inmate constantly moving out
of here. If Ras is moved, one of these other
two that were down to the three would be moved
in with them. Was that discussed? Answer? No, he would
just basically because like I said again, at MCC, you
wouldn't know how long the duration on the inmates day question.
Sure answer, You wouldn't know questions, so you just have
to start the vetting process over again. Answer all over again.
Whoever is available in the unit that may be single
selled because as you know, our policy and protocol in
the Bureau of Prisons are dealing with restricted inmates and
special housing units. They cannot be sold alone. They must
have a cell mate. Question in the special housing unit,
everyone must have a cell mate answer. Uh huh question,
Oh I didn't know that, So every single one needs
to have a cell mate answer, except because it's one
of the areas that we didn't discuss. Outside of ten South,
there was a range that was meant for or it
was like a step down from ten South that only
had one man cell occupancy, which was on G range.
Question Okay, was that part of the special housing unit? Answer?
Uh huh. Question. So there's a part of the special
housing unit that is a one man occupancy another part
that has two men occupancy. Answer that's correct. Question okay,
And Epstein was housed in the two man occupancy. Answer
yep Question was it ever discussed to put him in
one of the one man occupancies? Answer no question, no answer,
because all those cells were filled with inmates that were
vetted that needed that type of supervision. Question okay, answer,
You had inmates in there that if they were they
were put with other inmates inside of special housing, they
would die, they would be assaulted. So we have to
make those considerations. So the protocols of how we dealt
with inmates according to their situation. I believe it was sound.
But guess what you can only you're like the coach.
I can make the game plan, but if the players
are not executing the game plan, whose fault is that?
Is it? The coach or the player question and exactly,
and that's what we're doing here. We're Monday morning quarterbacking.
We're just saying like, all right, this is and that's
why we're going back through it. So the Wharton directed
or redacted on multiple occasions at Epstein needed a cell
mate at all times, and redacted informed as lieutenants the
same redacted repeatedly directed his shoe lieutenant redacted that Epstein
needed a cell mate at all times. Additionally, redacted visited
the shoe on multiple occasions and directed staff to be
very alert and attentive about Epstein's special accommodations. So when
you say that about the shoe staff, did you also
inform the shoe staff that Epstein needed to have a
cell mate? Answer? Yes, question, Oh so they were all aware?
Answer yes. Question. Can you look at the shoe staff
for both of August ninth and the very early morning
hours of August tenth. Can you just list the people
and let me know if you inform those people? Answer? So, basically,
my hours of work were normally, let's just say seven
thirty to four, So I ensured that it wasn't within
one week, but it was a process of doing rounds.
So I try to hit every shift. So I hit
the day watch because that's the one I work. Evening watch,
I stay over late, I walk up there. Hey, guys,
this is the situation. Let's make sure that you know
we're paying attention. And then morning watch of course, so
beginning at eight am. Then on August ninth, can you
just look at this is a question. Now, can you
look to who and name the people? Can you just
name who was in the shoe and if you ever
had any conversation with them, if they were aware? Answer? Okay,
let me see here. Well, we had redacted. I talked
to redacted and redacted he was in there. Redacted redacted
was one of the guys that was up there as
a wreck officer. Answer Saul gets cut off. Him picks
back up with the question, all of those people were
you had conversations specifically with them and they know? Answer,
I've talked with these guys. Question absolutely. Can you just
name the other people for the shifts after him? I
think they just gets cut off by the captain. You
got now, m Thomas, M Thomas, what you need to
understand is that he would have been because you know,
like I said, overtime non custody. He's non custody staff.
I don't have conversations with him. Question. Okay, so Michael
Thomas may not have known answer right because realistically the
morning watch an evening watch shift. People don't like to
come to work. So if you sign up for overtime,
you say, oh, shoot, two is open, Okay, I'll take it.
But you're non custody, so that means anybody can work it.
A teacher, a food service foreman. Answer, is the shoe
easier to work than the other units? Answer? I wouldn't
say it's easier, but it's less labor intensive. Question okay,
answer because in my opinion from when I work special housing,
special housing was always hard work because I'm going to
tell you why. You have to be vigilant. And when
I mean vigilant, you have to understand when you're working
that unit, anything can happen. It could be quiet, but
guess what if you're not walking looking in those cells,
testing the security protocols, meaning making sure the flaps are closed,
making sure that the doors are locked. You want to
know that in shoe sometimes doors was unlocked or flaps
opened to chase doors. Those food services the service flap,
you know, making rounds, making sure that the inmates are
not have coverings up when you open up. What do
you call it? Question the window? Answer the window or
putting a towel over the bed and the light from
you being able to observe them. Question But then how
gets cut off? And what I said about what I
want to get back to because I know about the
statement about the doors being left open. I'm talking about
more in general population as far as when you're making rounds,
those types of things you test, making sure the door
is secure, making sure the food slots are secure. Question
uh huh, answer by the captain as an officer coming up,
even as a lieutenant, do you know that I've actually
walked into a unit and pulled on the door that's
supposed to be secure and the inmate is wide open?
Question wow? Ever at mcc answer no, because that wasn't
my capacity, that wasn't my job. But as a line
officer subordinate, and also when I was lieutenant making rounds,
that's what I would do when I hit a unit.
It wasn't just to talk to staff. I would walk
in and look at the security protocols in the unit.
Is there a fire extinguisher. There. Good, Your phone work,
computers work. Hey, let's walk the block, pulling on doors,
pulling on food slots, showing trying to train officers. That's
what I used to do. Question, lead by example, answer
and guess what happens. You would find stuff because people
in a hurry enough to go home on that evening.
Watch the inmates know their doors are locked, but they
know they're going to come out because if they come out,
there's a situation. But they'll sit up there and leave
it open. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,
and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're
gonna pick up where we left off. All the information
that goes with this episode can be found in the
description box.