WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.480 Oh he is, folks, it's show tied. People say, good 2 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:11.720 money to see this movie. When they go out to 3 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:12.160 a theater. 4 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:16.199 They are cold sodas, hot popcorn in no monsters in 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:17.199 the protection booth. 6 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.199 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:21.160 God As. 8 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:47.000 From the Unforgettable Award winning play comes the Best Picture 9 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:54.759 of the Year, starring the Best Actor of the Year. So, 10 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:58.640 Thomas Moyle, you, having found guilty of high treason the 11 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:03.679 sentence of the cause yours. When I was practicing law 12 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:07.640 the man I was asked the prisoner before pronouncing sentence 13 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:11.760 if he had anything to say, Have you anything to say? 14 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:14.680 Yes, I'm. 15 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:37.159 Honored by six Academy Awards. A Man for All Seasons. 16 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:40.959 So, Thomas Moore, have you anything to say to me? 17 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.760 Regarding the King's marriage with Queen Anne. 18 00:01:44.439 --> 00:01:46.760 I understood I was not to be asked at again. 19 00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:49.280 Benevident to me wonders to bring me these char I'll 20 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:56.000 tell us for children, Master Secretary, not for me. A 21 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.519 Man for All Seasons, winner of six Academy AWAR Awards, 22 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:08.479 including Best Actor, Best Director, Best Screenplay, and Best Picture 23 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:09.080 of the Year. 24 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:15.159 Dangerous I mean as a friend, I am a friend. 25 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:16.439 I wish I wasn't what I am. 26 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:22.800 Sir Thomas Thomas Paul Schofield hailed as Best Actor of 27 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:30.639 the Year for his performance as Thomas Moore now Wenday 28 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:37.560 Hillary as the woman behind the Man, Leo McKern as Cromwell, 29 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:46.840 a conspirator, Robert Shaw as the lusty King Henry of 30 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:47.439 the Eighth. 31 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:54.080 In you Know, are you? 32 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:54.479 Grace? 33 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:57.960 Spare meal discretion. 34 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.000 Mm hmm to play and mark. 35 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:09.719 Again orson Well says Cardinal Wolsey, and Susannah Yorke as 36 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:12.280 the daughter torn between love and. 37 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.639 Mild Margaret What is it make? 38 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:16.800 Father? 39 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:18.560 Is a new act going through parliament? 40 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:21.319 Oh? 41 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:25.039 Why this actor going to administer an oath about the marriage? 42 00:03:26.560 --> 00:03:28.159 And what concussion is the earth. 43 00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:30.240 High treason? 44 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:40.199 Honor. 45 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:01.280 Welcome to the Project Booth. I'm your host, Mike White, 46 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:03.639 join me once again as mister Spencer Parsons. 47 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:04.120 Hello. 48 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:07.280 Also back in the booth is mister Robert Bellissimo. 49 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.919 Hello, Mike and Spencer and everyone listening. Thanks for having 50 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:13.039 me back on this episode. 51 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:15.960 We are taking a request from Patreon listener. Peter Rogers 52 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.360 A Man for All Seasons directed by Fred Zinnemann and 53 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.360 written by Robert Bolt, adapted from his own play. The 54 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:26.079 film stars Paul Scholfield as Sir Thomas Moore, a statesman 55 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:29.360 from the late fifteenth and early sixteenth century. That's the 56 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.800 fourteen hundreds and the fifteen hundreds. I also have to 57 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:34.639 say that to myself, because the whole the twentieth century 58 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:37.240 was the nineteen hundreds always threw me off. When he 59 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:39.839 opposed the divorce and remarriage of Henry the Eighth, he 60 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:44.240 was arrested and eventually spoilers put to death. We will 61 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:48.480 be discussing more the film and its remake and other things, 62 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:50.680 and spoiling things as we go along, not that I 63 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:52.680 can really spoil it any more than I just did. 64 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:55.199 So if you don't want anything ruined, turn off the 65 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:59.199 podcast and track down the film. We will still be here. So, Spencer, 66 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.120 when was the first you saw this movie and what 67 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:01.720 did you think? 68 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:05.399 My first memory of this movie, as it was one 69 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:11.439 of those that played very popularly during those PBS fundraising 70 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.839 marathons where they would interrupt every fifteen minutes or so 71 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.279 and the movie would take about. 72 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.160 Four hours to watch. They did this a bunch of times, 73 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:21.800 and I know I. 74 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:25.040 Saw it at least in pieces a couple of times. 75 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.600 As a kid, and you know, just stuck with me 76 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:31.600 as that kind of movie. Honestly, I've been meaning to 77 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:35.040 rewatch it because I'm a big Orson Wells fan, is 78 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.360 well known on this show, and felt like, oh I 79 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.639 got to see the Orson Wells performance, and on that score, 80 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.160 I was not disappointed. You know, Wells really brings it 81 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.560 absolutely best scene in the movie. I mean, it doesn't 82 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.480 feel like an Orson Wells movie, but you definitely feel 83 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.600 an influence in that scene that is very different in 84 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.399 terms of it. It's like visualization, filmmaker, everything from. 85 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.959 The rest of the film and Robert, how about yourself. 86 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:07.199 This was the first time view it for me, spent 87 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:11.120 for me Jowell's fan, so it had been on my 88 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:14.720 watch list for a while. And as you've interviewed Mike 89 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:18.439 Joseph Bride a few times, I know he's Well's historian 90 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.160 and he's very fond of Wells in this film. So 91 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.319 this was my first time seeing it. And then I 92 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:25.959 loved this scene and then before you knew it, he's dead. 93 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.480 I'm like, oh great, this movie just started in Wells 94 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:32.319 with Denaud Kiss. So yeah, not enough Wells, not enough. 95 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.120 Robert Shaw I thought like I thoughts great too. 96 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:38.120 Robert Seohn's incredible, He's so good. 97 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:39.439 In it, and I was like, oh, we only see 98 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:42.839 him in a couple of scenes. But I liked it, 99 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:45.000 and I really loved I didn't love it, but I 100 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:49.240 liked it. But I always love a persons the system, 101 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:53.560 films or stories, and I thought, Okay, that's what this is, 102 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:56.639 but yet, why is it not? Why do I not 103 00:06:57.399 --> 00:07:00.439 like it more than I do? And I think it 104 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:05.279 was because Thomas Moore. The way he's depicted anyways, is 105 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:09.319 that he's just unshakable stone, just right from the beginning, 106 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:13.800 you know, as right away they're asking him to compromise 107 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:17.879 and he will not, and of course throughout that's what 108 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:21.079 it is, and it obviously it gets worse and worse 109 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:24.040 for him. So I like that. And then I thought, well, 110 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.160 I love Surproco and he's not Surprogo. He's not so 111 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:31.319 complicated in that either. But I think the difference with 112 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:35.120 that is he starts he's a rookie cop. It gradually 113 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:39.199 builds to him seeing all this corruption. There's a lot 114 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:42.439 more feelings involved we see as a gregarious side. We 115 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:47.199 see him snap gradually. As I was furious and how 116 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.759 anxious he gets throughout, so it has a lot more 117 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:54.000 feelings to it, whereas this this guy is just like Nope, 118 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.279 I am not gonna bend. And I mean I thought 119 00:07:56.639 --> 00:07:59.480 Schoolfield was fantastic in it, and there is some moments 120 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.000 where he really snap, but only a couple of times. 121 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.639 He's just he's a steady rock so and everybody else 122 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.879 is rather one dimensional as well, so it kind of 123 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:12.279 felt a little flat to me, pretty predictable. I thought, Okay, 124 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.000 I see where this is going. You know it's not 125 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:19.959 gonna hand well for this guy. But after reading that 126 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:22.720 there are certain things about him that they didn't include, 127 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:24.879 I thought it was a shame, which I'm sure we'll 128 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:27.279 get into as the review in folds, but that that's 129 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:28.759 my initial impressions. 130 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.560 This was also a first time watch for me. This 131 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.559 movie has just always been there. I mean, it won 132 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:37.519 the Academy Award and won sixty six or for sixty 133 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:40.320 six won a whole bunch of awards. It's always just 134 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:43.000 been held up as like, oh, a man for all seasons, 135 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.360 and I just never went there. Had we not gotten 136 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.840 this request from Paul Rodgers, I don't think I would 137 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:50.879 have checked it out, even though I had a great 138 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:53.720 time with the next film that Cinnamon directed, which was 139 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.879 The Jackal. Had a wonderful discussion about that. But going 140 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:00.000 back to this one in sixty six, I mean, yeah, 141 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:01.879 you're kind of right as far as like, this is 142 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:04.639 the guy against the system type of thing. The play 143 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.159 was out in what sixty two? There was actually a 144 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.440 sixty three version of it made for Australian television. I 145 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.399 tried my best to find that was unable to And 146 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:16.360 then of course there's a remake that we'll talk about 147 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:17.120 a little bit later. 148 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:19.120 This film looks beautiful. 149 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:22.600 I like the use of the river throughout this whole thing, 150 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:24.799 that we start on the river and just use the 151 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.679 river to kind of go up and down from where 152 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:31.159 more is at down the river to I guess it's London. 153 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:32.120 I guess. 154 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:35.840 I feel so lost in this. And I had to 155 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.120 do so much fricking reading for this one because it 156 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.799 was just like who is this guy? Because I always 157 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.840 get him mixed up Thomas Moore, I get mixed up 158 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.200 with Thomas A. Beckett and Thomas Aquinas all the time. 159 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:50.559 So I'm just like, who is this guy? And then 160 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.720 when you ask that question, depending on who you ask 161 00:09:53.799 --> 00:09:56.840 it of you're going to get a whole different answer. 162 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.039 There is the man of unshakable faith, and then and 163 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.639 there's the guy who put heretics to death. And it 164 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:04.600 feels like I would like a little bit of a 165 00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:09.039 blend of the two and see a more three sixty 166 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.200 version of More because this, like you said, he's a 167 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:16.600 very static character, and we're just talking earlier today about 168 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:21.360 Return of the Jedi and like how characters can be 169 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:25.000 active dynamic or they can be very static and more 170 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:26.960 as a super static character. 171 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:27.639 I'm gonna jump in. 172 00:10:27.799 --> 00:10:30.679 I think Schofield's performance it is the worst thing about 173 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.120 the movie. I think the performance is bad because he's 174 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.879 taken it in a direction that not different really from. 175 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:41.159 What Zinnama is doing with it. 176 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.120 Zinneman not one of my favorite directors, and there will 177 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:47.679 be more shots fired about other Sacred Cow films. I 178 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.919 rewatched high Noon because this is like, this is basically 179 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.960 high Noon, but without shooting. It's a similar kind of 180 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.360 I realized while I was watching it again, it's. 181 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.600 The same kind of movie. Both of these movies stink, 182 00:10:59.080 --> 00:10:59.639 they're bad. 183 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.240 They have the same kind of problem from Zimmerman, which 184 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:06.320 is that Zennaman just assumes the goodness of these aracters. 185 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:08.559 You know, Gary Cooper in the case of High Noon 186 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:12.600 all the way through and assumes the goodness of Thomas 187 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:16.799 Moore here and assumes too much for this to be 188 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.039 a real drama of a. 189 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:19.879 Man against the system. 190 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:23.240 There is a system, and there's a person who's a 191 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:26.440 kind of I think Gary Cooper's performance is way better 192 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.039 in High Noon, but it's still the conception of the 193 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:33.600 character is this unshakable block of wood all the way through. 194 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:35.960 And Schofield, this is. 195 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:38.879 A movie where I actually question the editing to get 196 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:42.799 Schofield's performance In a couple of places. He is in 197 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:45.399 such a low register through the whole thing. One of 198 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.960 the only times that he raises his voice in any 199 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.759 recognizable way is he probably should against this situation that 200 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:57.399 he's in. Is a way long, wide shot looking at 201 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.080 his back when he yells in the courtroom near the end, 202 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.399 and I almost thought it was another character. 203 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:07.279 Because his voice was so different. It might even be dumped. 204 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.080 I ran it back a few times, and I saw 205 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.720 this in the editing, and yeah, sure, I think you 206 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.039 can look into his face and you can believe him 207 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.440 moment to moment, But he has just made such a 208 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:23.480 disastrous choice about this character over time that I think 209 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:27.159 the movie actually works very much against itself. You know, 210 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:29.639 I come out on the side of corruption when I 211 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.519 watched this movie because I see a character it's a 212 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.120 kind of similar thing again to Hei Newon, and I 213 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.320 might get into that a little bit more later, but 214 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:41.639 I see this character who's mainly just what he is saying, 215 00:12:41.679 --> 00:12:45.039 what he's doing, how he is behaving. It just makes 216 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:47.919 him kind of an asshole. And I think Thomas Moore 217 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.279 is a fascinating interesting character. It could be an interesting asshole. 218 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.679 I mean, this is somebody who really took heretics to task, 219 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:01.039 in particular Lutherans. He wrote flame notes to Luther that 220 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:02.720 were full of profanity. 221 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:04.080 You know. 222 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.639 He wrote Utopia, which I actually read again for this 223 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:09.559 because I had read it in college, and I was like, 224 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:12.200 I don't think this guy is like a writer can 225 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.039 be different from you know, in person, from how they 226 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.879 are on the page. But there's no evidence of the 227 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:21.559 writer that wrote Utopia. There's only this idea that he's 228 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:24.519 never going to move and it starts to the very 229 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:26.480 beginning and goes through the end. When I get a 230 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.200 scene with Orson Wells, I'm convinced that actually the corruption 231 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:31.519 in this case is necessary. 232 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:33.600 England has been through the Wars of Roses. 233 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.320 It's been thirty straight years of mayhem and murder and insanity. 234 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.360 And the point here is to get an air who 235 00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.840 will be legitimate to the throne when the tutors are 236 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.000 very weak in their. 237 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.039 Assumption of the throne. So there's a very serious kind 238 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:51.480 of issue. 239 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:54.240 And I just start to wonder over the course of 240 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:57.759 this version because I also, you know, dealt with the play, 241 00:13:57.799 --> 00:13:59.440 and I think the play is a different animal. 242 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:05.399 In this version. We have this dickhead who won't move. 243 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:10.159 At the cost, potentially at the cost of other people's 244 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.279 deaths over a particular point of how to deal with 245 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.360 the pope. And I actually think that the dealing with 246 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:18.799 the pope can be dealt with very seriously, but. 247 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:20.399 The movie doesn't deal with it seriously. 248 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.600 It's self evident that this guy is right, and he's 249 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.679 just going to quietly say no, no, no, and I 250 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.399 am going to be silent, you know, the entire time, 251 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:33.960 as there are other people dealing with a very serious, 252 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:39.159 deadly situation for ordinary people, and he won't move. And 253 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.480 this is especially difficult in terms of you know, there 254 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.480 are a lot of current resonances with a story like this, 255 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:48.799 not just man against the system, but the idea that 256 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.360 a lot of people are allowing the system to go 257 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.200 out of control because they're afraid. And I really want, 258 00:14:55.480 --> 00:15:00.000 like I so in my core being want to sympathize 259 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:04.720 with his position, and I don't know. I see Robert 260 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.000 Shaw play Henry the Eighth, who is one of the 261 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:12.399 monsters of history, and I'm all about Robert Shaw. I 262 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.960 see Cardinal Wolseley at the beginning, played by Orson Wells 263 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.840 in a brilliant scene, and as he brings up the 264 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.000 salient points about recent history and what they need to do, 265 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:27.960 I cannot but side with Orson Wells. And then additionally, 266 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:34.200 Vanessa Redgrave appears very briefly as Anne boleyn Oh my god, 267 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.639 three minutes in the movie, maybe even less, has hardly 268 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.679 a line, completely amazing, riveting, full of life. 269 00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:45.840 And then everybody else in the movie Zenneman is toning 270 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:46.240 them all. 271 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.559 John Hurt, also great actor Schofield, Hurt, lots of other 272 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:58.039 people toned into this kind of lame register of history. 273 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:01.559 It's not a living movie, and it makes precisely the 274 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.960 opposite points because of those who actually live on screen 275 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:05.200 in it. 276 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:09.120 Shaw was so riveting. Yeah, I mean his presence is 277 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:13.519 certainly felt throughout because he's the one giving these orders. 278 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:17.799 And I thought, well, why wouldn't you see him, you know, 279 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:22.759 as they're hearing that Thomas More won't bend, as all 280 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:25.480 his allies are the ones now dealing with him and 281 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.320 not the king directly, I'm like, well, what do he do? 282 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:29.200 Cut back to him, Like, I would have loved to 283 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:31.080 have seen the way he reacted to this, because he 284 00:16:31.159 --> 00:16:34.279 was so ferocious and he brought so much feeling to 285 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.279 a film that was mostly flat, And I just thought 286 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.879 that was very strange to have only had him in 287 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.039 what two or three scenes. I think the wedding and 288 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.240 when he comes and visit, well, in the wedding. 289 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.039 Doesn't appear to be in the play. And I love 290 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:49.960 the wedding scene. 291 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.639 I mean I love not just because of those performances, 292 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.799 but also because, like Zinnaman's camera comes to life in 293 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.080 relationship to the performances, not just like he's plunked down 294 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.399 the camera and Robert Shaw's taking over. It's like, all 295 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.799 of a sudden, the camera really cares about a character 296 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:11.039 and becomes part of their psychology, which just doesn't happen, 297 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.519 you know, much else in the film. There are some 298 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:19.680 very pretty pictures, but it's really interesting the strongest actors 299 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.799 do demand from Zennemon a different kind of approach to 300 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:30.240 how the story is told visually. The two scenes with 301 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.920 Orson Wells are also a lot more interesting. 302 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.319 You know, there's the one scene where he's. 303 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.519 In the very painterly They put him at a tiny, 304 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:41.160 tiny desk and he looks enormous, and Wells has I'm 305 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:43.480 sure Wells did his own makeup, so he's got this 306 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:48.079 like really grotesque makeup with like red rings around his eyes. 307 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.759 He looks on death's door anyway. 308 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.759 And then there's that later scene where he's been taken 309 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.079 to the Tower of London because you know, Henry, he's 310 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:00.680 failed Henry the Eighth and all of that. He's playing 311 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:03.079 it on his back and his face is like upside 312 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:06.640 down on the screen, and it's just this doesn't happen 313 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.400 for anybody else in the movie. And I think it's 314 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:13.160 in part because we have these two three obstreperous kind 315 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:19.440 of actors who simply demand another kind of photography from Zennerman, 316 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:23.519 and he's directed everybody else nicely, but they're just too 317 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:28.319 they're too painterly, they're too solid, they're not dynamic presences. 318 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:31.160 That's a kind of tableau vivant movie. And I'm no 319 00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:32.920 big fan of the Oscars. 320 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.119 But this is like one of those movies that I 321 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.920 would point to as like, yeah, and in nineteen sixty 322 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.920 six they had this like Deadly Dull Man for All 323 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.599 Seasons and they gave that a heap of Oscars. 324 00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:45.240 Robert. The last time that you and I spoke, we 325 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:49.599 talked about just that whole thing of that characters. Zay 326 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:53.039 just having this promise he made and he is unshakable 327 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:55.960 in his faith, and it's similar, but it's so different 328 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.400 from what More is doing. It's just amazing that both 329 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.279 of these movies have these characters whe they're like, no, 330 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:03.160 this is what's right, and I have to do this. 331 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:06.000 It's a promise that he made to a saint and 332 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.720 he feels that he has to do this, Whereas in 333 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:11.880 this one, I know that Moore is struggling with his 334 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.440 faith and is very Catholic in his faith, and he's 335 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.359 just like, no, no, we can't do this. We really 336 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.920 can't bend the rules. But it doesn't feel like it's 337 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.119 like really down in his core. To me, it just 338 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.799 feels like, no, that's the rule, that's all it is, 339 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.960 and just I have to follow the rule. And obviously 340 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:35.119 the rules of religion are just so fricking arbitrary. It's crazy. 341 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:35.319 You know. 342 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:38.880 I've talked before about, you know, how wars and people 343 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:43.119 were murdered over silly little things or things that they 344 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.680 thought were just incredibly massive when it came to like 345 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:50.799 when was Jesus a human? When was he a god? 346 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:55.200 Does transubstantiation is that literal blood or is that just 347 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.720 figurative blood? Like people are being thrown out of windows 348 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.160 about this shit where it's just like no, no, and this 349 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:03.880 whole thing where it's like, you know, the Anglican Church, 350 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:07.000 I mean, from what I understand, it was basically like, hey, 351 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.200 we need a church system so that the king can 352 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.440 divorce and remarry and nobody's going to throw a fit. 353 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:13.680 Guess what. 354 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.880 The Pope is not very happy with that. And we 355 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.759 have the Catholics, we have the Protestants, and we've had 356 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:25.359 hundreds of years of bloodshed over Protestants versus Catholics. No offense, y'all, 357 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.279 but I think you're really silly because I think it's 358 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:31.359 very very small differences. As an atheist, I see very 359 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:34.279 little difference between what you guys are doing and when 360 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:36.839 it comes to Lutheranism. And yeah, I heard about those 361 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:41.119 scatological letters that more would be writing to Luther. I mean, 362 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:46.039 Lutheranism is Catholic light lte. It's just basically the same 363 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.680 thing with a few less stand up and sit down 364 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:51.880 at the ceremonies. As far as me and Outsider see. 365 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.279 So, I hate to. 366 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:55.480 Be that guy who's just like you guys are all 367 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:58.519 being a bunch of silly a holes, But comes down 368 00:20:58.559 --> 00:20:59.640 to that in this movie. 369 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.720 It's interesting what Spencer was saying about the schoolfield because 370 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.240 I liked his performance, this sense of dignity he brought 371 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.359 to it. But now Spencer's making me it's true that 372 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.000 he's sort of I think he either him or ZI 373 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:16.039 him and made a choice that like, this guy's just 374 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:20.119 gonna put his nose up and not let anything get 375 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.680 but he hangs on to his dignity. He chokes it. 376 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.160 I mean, he just will not show. He shows very 377 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.359 little emotion. Intentionally interesting in a way. But now Spencer's 378 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.240 making me think maybe that is part of what's kind 379 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.319 of doll about it because maybe if he had allowed 380 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:39.640 that to sort of build. I mean, people are betraying left, 381 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.319 right and center. Like he's the one character who was 382 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.160 a closer friend of his what was his name, They 383 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.119 had more of a friendship, and you know, Thomas is 384 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.839 bringing him to do it, even though he's understanding his position. 385 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.000 But yeah, he just sort of like, no one's gonna 386 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:55.759 get to me. Even that scene, which I thought was 387 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.839 quite good where he says goodbye to his family and 388 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.559 everybody is getting so emotional except and you know, in 389 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.720 a way it's interesting, but yeah, it's making me think, 390 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:07.000 you know, perhaps he should have allowed these things to 391 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.759 get to him and brought a lot more to it. 392 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:15.480 My most interesting character is the John Hurt character Richard 393 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.759 rich and I can think of Richie Rich through the 394 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.599 whole thing, but that he is there at the beginning 395 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.119 and he's like, hey, I'm really looking for this position. 396 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:28.240 He's striving for stuff. He's a little sneaky about things. 397 00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:30.839 And then we find out how sneak he is later 398 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.720 on during some of the Leo McCarey stuff that he 399 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:38.119 glombs onto that cup, that silver cup that Moore was 400 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.119 given as a bribe and then takes that cup and 401 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.640