Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate body and Soul or
should I just say Bunny.
Speaker 2: Hello? Filthy movie lovers, something weirdos and anti criterion brose
to the forty third episode of The Sin Syndicate, where
ice cubes are inserted into erogenous zones and every marriage
is built on a foundation of trust. My name is
Gentry Austen, writer and researcher, and I'm here with my
co host, adult film historian Casey Scott. And in this
week's episode, we will be visiting a nineteen seventy five
San Francisco massage parlor where they give more than just
leg rubs. Joining us is Mark Murray, a man of
many talents and many interests, but whom we've asked on
the show to provide insight into the life and career
of model and sex film star Serena. She was just
getting her start in the business when she starred in
a Harry Novak produced, Barry Spinello directed sexploitation film called
Massage Parlor. Wife.
Speaker 3: Let me fix your time.
Speaker 2: The pain in my neck is not so great as
the pain I feel right here in my heart.
Speaker 4: Oh I can fix that too, in no way.
Speaker 2: I love you.
Speaker 4: When you come to your senses and you quit that
ridiculous job, then and only then will you and I
once more begin man and wife.
Speaker 3: I've only been working with the massage parlor for one week.
Speaker 1: Right, and one week is one week too much, So.
Speaker 2: Bubble will get sensual not sexual, in a moment. But
first we've got some news and updates. Let's cruise through here.
Mark is joining us, so Mark feel free to chime in.
But we'll start with the major announcement that we've teased
a few times, what I've called the release of the year,
the Distrip Picks double feature plus one of Michael Findlay's
final black and white films, The Ultimate Degenerate and a
Thousand Pleasures, which is available to pre order now and
should be shipping out at the end of this month
of July. Here it is Casey Shadow, producer. True, we've
got a lot going on on this release. Yes, let's
run through it quick.
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, your I don't exaggerate you. And
Alex DeSanto wrote a piece, a very extensive piece ont
and that moved me to tears multiple times because I
read it several times, including just for the hell of it,
because it had gone it went through edits and substantial change,
not substantial changes, but you know, and it's great and
it's terrific, and I'm glad that they updated the website
to note that that's in there. Sean Langerck wrote it.
He expanded on his piece on Janet Vansea which he
posted on his blog, which I think is really good,
definitive information about her family background and things like that.
I did. I moderated. I mentioned on the release as
being as doing the commentaries. I didn't really do the commentaries.
I moderated the commentaries by Neil Martinsen, who was kind
of the big Michael Findley historian who hasn't really done
anything that's going to be exciting. I'm excited to hear
what people have to say.
Speaker 2: He's been working hard on his thing.
Speaker 3: Yes right, and the ROBERTA interviews. So take me Naked
as from a video transfer, because I think most people
know by this point that when image transferred that for
the DVD, or when the DVD when then the negative
they had it was transferred for the DVD release, that
like disintegrated after it was finished, so that is toast,
so there is anything else available for that film. So
they're using a tape master. I think it might be
the digital master from the image DVD. I don't think
it's the SKHS, so I should not have the bug
on it. If it does, I'll be unhappy.
Speaker 2: So heads up Blu ray forum, people like, this is
not an issue somebody mishandling a negative. This was just
a case of the nature of the Beast. Mike, you know,
Mike Rainy was like when he scanned it. According to Lisa,
he was you know, he had the baby, that thing
at the time. So that's just it. Nobody, you know,
it's nobody's fault. It's just the nature of the business
or the beast.
Speaker 1: Right, they'll still be complaints.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure. I mean that's I mean, that's why
they listed it as a bonus because it is a bonus.
It's a bonus film. It's not a triple feature. They
originally when it was on the schedule that I was
working on for the schedule that they shared with me
to start to know stuff and they need to work
on they had it as a triple feature and I
was like, oh, did you guys discover something new? And
then they said no, it's not going to be a
triple feature. We're just adding that so that we know
it's going to be there.
Speaker 1: And that's a respectable way to approach that, honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, I think so. And I think
there's a few other ones that I want spoil that
are like that on their work schedule, where there are
titles where they don't have FAILM elements, but they're going
to be on there from like a digital transfer from
image because they don't have anything anymore, but the interview
that's on there, and they're really kind of hype in this,
and I don't want people to be disappointed. It is
not a new Roberta interview. It is, in fact, the
very first time, including the very first phone call that
I ever made to Roberta at twenty one years old
in two thousand and five, No, yes, two thousand and five,
and it's the very first time I ever spoke to
her interview her through Media Blasters who set me up
with her. So Bill Helfeierre at Media Blasters set us up,
so you can kind of hear baby Casey developed trying
to develop a rapport with this woman who scares the
shit out of him. And it's interesting, I hadn't listened
to it in literally like at least twenty twenty two years,
because I had to I try. I did the transcription
of it for my records, but yeah, I made sure
to include the very first phone call I ever made
to her where she picked up the phone and I
had to schedule the interview with her, so that's on there.
And she immediately shoots down any discussion about the Mike
movies in the very first phone call, but she still,
you know, drops a few hints in our conversation that
she did work on them, So that's there. So yeah,
I just I wanted I wanted that to go somewhere,
and that made sense to be able to put that
over that movie as a bonus, and then that way,
it's not it's not going to waste and sitting in
my archives, like, it's going to be able to be
shared and there's good there's good stuff in there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, So that's the release. Go order it.
I'm excited to see how it all comes together. I
haven't heard the commentaries yet, so I'm really excited to
hear Neil Oh, that's right, you.
Speaker 3: Haven't, that's right, So you don't know all the stories
from Earl Hindeman on the set of that.
Speaker 2: No, I've heard a few from Neil. I talked to him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there there were more that I didn't but he
hadn't told me until the commentary, so I'm like, oh, good, okay,
So yeah, I will say we recorded a thousand Pleasures
first and ultimately Generate second. So when you get it,
I would just listening to the thousand Pleasures first and
then the Degenerate second, because Pleasure starts the narrative, Degenerate
continues the narrative. We kind of pick up where we
left off on Degenerate. Oh yeah, so it's good. Yeah, yeah,
so start with pleasures. Pleasures was the earliest chronologically too, so.
Speaker 1: And it's it is really great to see this stuff
that's that's coming out like this now, like the sexploitation stuff,
and I'm a little bit detached from it. You know,
I watched all the stuff decades ago on you know
something weird videotapes and and things like that, and uh,
to see the love is coming back. And also you
know that you guys and a few others are really
kind of spearheading that, uh, that real deep dive into
you know, the the data that's the stuff that I crave,
you know, I I uh, you know, when I listen
to your podcast, I'm sitting there going, who the hell
this guy's talking about? You know, like you guys are
so deep into it that it inspires me to go
back and start, you know, looking at at lists and
and things, and you know, making my own connections and stuff.
So I mean, at least on this episode, I'm kind
of like the guy sitting in the back seat along
for the ride with you guys. You know, hopefully I
have some some details to to offer, you know, when
we have the discussion. But you know, I appreciate what
you guys are doing, and uh, you know, I'm always
one who you know, credit credit due where it's due,
and uh, you know, it's it and and it's this
is not an area that really got that type of
attention before. So we're all in that category where we're
concerned about the loss of the history of of these things.
We're all concerned about, you know, the people that were
involved in this are passing away, and there's so much
of this history that's just going you know, this is
going by the wayside that we'll never be able to recapture.
And and that need to to try to, you know,
get what we can while the opportunities are still there.
You know, hopefully we're not in uh you know, going
into like revisionist history. We're we're trying to go to
the sources and we're trying to get that information. You know,
We're not trying to be you know, a third party, uh,
you know, resuscitators of a story. We want to go
to the sources. So I just appreciate what you guys
are doing and all the other historians out there that
are you know, digging and doing the work. You know.
So oftentimes I listen to commentary. There's nothing, you know,
a jab against certain people. I'm not going to name names,
but I don't feel like I'm ever being educated on anything.
I just feel like I'm just listening to someone talk
about them. So what are you giving me that's going
to to inspire me to look deeper into things? What
are you giving me that's that's information that I don't know.
So I appreciate what you guys are doing. Again, thank you, Yeah,
thank you.
Speaker 3: Well. I feel the same way anytime. Yeah, I was
thinking about this because you know, I am a consumer
and a fan of all kinds of films, and so
there are definitely commentaries and researchers where I'm kind of like, well,
I didn't learn anything here, so this this is a failure.
So you know, I want to learn. I'm not just
like my focus is on adult and sexploitation. So there's
but that's I'm into so many other types of films
and things. So when I when I move on to
other genres like film noir or seventies independent or Japanese pink, like,
I want to learn from those experts. And if those
experts aren't teaching me, I'm kind of like, well are
you an expert? So yeah, But so I appreciate that mark. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also understand people that go into commentaries they just
want they want to be more entertained some people. So
I could see that hopefully we straddle that line, you know,
of both entertaining and educational. I think that's what's sure.
Speaker 1: It's a really hard line to tread, you know. Like
when I did my Roudraye more commentaries on all those
so good, there was a lot of a lot of
criticism that said it was dry. You know, dude, I
just gave you like millions of facts about the movie
that you never had before, you know, exactly, and all
you you know, I'm sorry if my you know, the
tone of my voice or or my presentation was dry,
but you you just got like, you know, pearls and
pearls of unknown things that you never you never would
have known before and exactly. But I guess, hey, if
I sound dry, oh well, but I just gave you
a shit ton of you know, stuff that you never
would have gotten anywhere else.
Speaker 3: Exactly. Listen, Tim, tim Lucas gets those Tim Lucas gets
those those complaints too. And Tim Lucas is was one
of the first major audio commentators for like Bava stuff,
and so I remember people were like, this is a
lot of information, but his delivery leaves that leaves something
to be desired, And I was like, just listen to
the fucking commentary and glean the information, like yeah, this
is They're not necessarily there to be like you're your
court jester and are there to educate you.
Speaker 1: It might also be a scenario now that you're talking
about Tim, I mean obviously his his uh, his work
is stellar. I mean it's a category on all on
its own. That Baba book is like you can assault
somebody on that and that thing is you know, that
thing is so big. I still have the box that
that came in. I store it in that b because
it's just so so big.
Speaker 3: I know, it's I have to be in the bottom
shelf of my bookshelf because it will destroy any other
shelf on my books that has to be ground level
because it is the size of a child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I think, like with his commentary, is it's
so in depth that I think it loses some people.
You know that it's so it's a lot to take
in and so so so maybe those of us that
are a little bit uh more familiar with the material
can can digest it a little bit easier versus somebody
who's coming in, you know, a little bit as a newbie,
I guess we could say, and not so so versed
in the history of things. So I can understand that
of just being like overwhelmed with the amount of But
I'd rather be overwhelmed than underwhelmed, for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Access I think digestibility is
something that I don't think about because I have no
problem going back and revisiting listening to a commentary twice
to like to remember or taking Yeah, we're taking notes
during which I know Alex does, and I've done it
a few times on certain things where I'm just like, Okay,
I need to remember this, but yeah, I think digestibility
is something that I never think about, and now that
makes you wonder Gentry, Like, we really are NonStop on
our car on our commentaries, we cover so much shit.
So I guess anybody who's experiencing those commentaries give them
a second grow round if you need to, because we
we really cover so much shit. I'm thinking of the
Turk and Jezebel ones even I'm just like, we really
did deep dives on I don't like seven or eight
crew members, Like really, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's there, Like, yeah, you can return to it if
you don't get it all in the first try. Like
you said, it's like, go back to it if you're interested.
If not, then move on whatever. I don't write it
and I think it.
Speaker 1: Another challenge is we have to remember that we likely are,
you know, in whatever, whether we're writing or speaking about something,
that we likely are talking to a lot of people
that don't know the amount that we do, so we
might not be providing all the details that we need
to so that someone can get a better grasp because
we're so familiar with it, we might kind of gloss
over certain things because to us it's like standard knowledge,
whereas it may not be for somebody else. So that's
that's a hard thing to try and kind of reel
yourself in and you know, provide context that that other
people that you know that other people maybe don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about that all the time. But you know,
the way I like to approach it, and I think
Casey is to a certain extent as well as like,
you know, if you don't immediately understand something or a
term or phrase like look, we look. We live in
a digital age here. You can look that stuff up easily.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's not like back.
Speaker 2: In the day where you would have to go to
the library and get a book out to understand something
like On that note commentary, I actually got my wad.
I haven't listened to the commentary yet.
Speaker 1: Though, but have you bred so so I did listen
to the commentary last weekend, I believe it was. And uh,
I'm not so much of a fan of that front
of that slipcover. I don't really like that artwork. The
back artwork I do, but I don't mind it. Just
so it was kind of weird super imposing his face
over pants or whatever. It just looked weird. But anyways,
your your commentary, Casey, I thought was excellent. I was
kind of laughing, uh, you know, not negatively at the beginning,
but you're you're in this like marathon of like trying
to introduce everybody who's coming, who's coming on screen, and
then it's kind of like, oh my god, Okay, I've
just talked about all the talking heads. Now, like you know,
you're trying to squeeze squeeze biographies of every person into
like a thirty second snippet of them talking. That that
had me laughing. You know, I thought that was hilarious.
But you can and you you acknowledge it. You're like, okay,
now that we've gone through all the talking heads, like
let's take a step back and let's go through this,
you know. And it's it's also nice to hear where
you're like, look, I'm not a fan of John Holmes,
like at all, Like I don't like him, you know.
Speaker 2: Of personal level, Yeah, yeah, and in a performer level.
Speaker 3: I think he's a performer either or not a good actor.
I don't like anything about him at all at all. Yeah,
So like you, Yeah, he's the bottom of the barrel
for me.
Speaker 1: Right, And of course he's a controversial character, you know
in a million ways, right, you know. And what's what's
ironic about him in a lot of scenarios, like you know,
he's he's on one of the loops in the Effervescent
Serena release and actually he'll be on one with her
in volume two. And she speaks very highly of him,
you know. And and and a lot of those people
that that speak highly of him were ones that were
more familiar with him early on in his career, you know,
before he before the you know, the the alternate version
of of John Holmes came out with with the drug use, and.
Speaker 2: And it was like, I don't remember any of that
drug use, if he if he was doing it, it
was very secretive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, it's it as far as the
documentary goes. I had seen it before, so it was
nice to revisit it again. And uh, you know, your
your discussion about Cass Paley was was incredible. I mean,
I I really enjoyed that, and you know, I like
things that that are relating to a personal connection, HM.
And so so we get a lot of of your
your story and your you know, love and friendship with Cass.
You know, I was in touch with him and trying
to work on some stuff with him as well, not
any any way to the degree you know that you were,
but you know, as I kind of started this journey,
you know, restoring loops and collecting the loops, you know,
he and I became Facebook friends, and you know, he
would call me every so often, and and we would
just guss the project that he was working on. And
I think you may you mentioned it in the commentary.
Oh yeah, I mean I was just reading an email
from him where he sent me like his outline for
like a five disc release that would be like all
about the history of loops. And yeah, we had talked
on the phone a few times about that, and and
I mean I told him, I said, I thought that
to me, that's like I want ten discs. I don't
want five, Like you know, that's that's my level. But
if you're trying to sell this to you know, HBO
or something like that, I said, you might want to
tone it, like, you know, consolidated a little bit, because
they may not be. They look at that and say, well,
you're proposing like, you know, a five hour you know,
documentary on something that you know nobody's really going to necessarily,
you know, he.
Speaker 3: Wanted it to be a series. He wanted to be
like a Netflix series, like a mini series for sure.
Speaker 1: Which we would we would love, but the majority of
the people might last like one or two episodes in
and then kind of love, you know, lose interest. I
mean that to the to the general public, that's maybe
like a you know, hour and a half documentary or
or maybe a two parter or something like that at
the most. But he I just remember he was like,
you know, dead set that it had to be like
of of that length and and and I appreciated that,
and he had he was a I think he kind
of offered to try to sell me the Blue Vanities.
Speaker 3: Name, which that makes total sense because you're that's you
kind of are the error apparent now to what Blue
Vanities was doing. Like that's you know, that's yeah, you
are carrying you're you're carrying the torch of Blue Vanities
because they were kind of the loop people for a
long time. And he he bought that. He and I
talked about that in the commentary. He and a partner
bought that from whoever it was, I think in Seattle
who ran it mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we kind of talked about that, and
and I'm a little bit stubborn, and I wanted to
do something that would it would separate myself from Blue Vanities,
not in and not as a negative, but you know,
uh yeah, all the stuff that they had released was
in lower quality. That was all they could do, what
they could do at the time. You know. So so
I'm I didn't want to take a name that that
was associated with uh you know, a level. You know,
I'm trying to create my own, my own thing for
certain And but you know, he had I remember he
told me he had like a couple of pallets of
loops that he was trying to do something, do something with,
and you know, he offered to kind of like send
them to me and and have me transfer them, and
and you know, I had to turn it down because
I already have plenty of my own. And you know,
as I kind of started this, I started getting a
lot of people that were approaching me saying, oh, I
have you know, a large collection of these and I'll
give them to you if you transfer them all and
give me the transfers, Like why would I do all
that work for you? You know, like like why would I
spend all that time like transferring and restoring these movies
and then just give you copies of them, you know,
like and and and you know, it was just kind
of a said to me, like I don't need your collection,
Like I've already got enough to last me the rest.
Speaker 2: Of my life.
Speaker 3: Yes, but you know that.
Speaker 1: But I did try to think about ways that potentially,
like you know, Cass and I could work together, and
you know, unfortunately he passed, and and and I just
appreciate that you had that that you know, that able,
that ability to give him a tribute that uh, you know,
because he's not a name that pops up.
Speaker 3: No, not at all. And it's it's, yeah, that's kind
of what I wanted to do. No, this his real
name was on the dock when it played, when it
played at festivals, and the R rated version, the hardcore version,
which for some reason, I just got another question about this,
and I'm just like, I don't know why people are
fixated on this hardcore version of this that is not
the preferred version, it cuts interview footage to replace that
footage with hardcore footage, so you're getting less of the
movie the cast made if you get the hardcore version.
So the only thing that I regret is that there
was not research done into the Hustler Corporation to get
the commentary he did for the VCA release of that,
because Cass did do a director's commentary, which I, frustratingly enough,
could not get a hold of because I never had
that version. I only ever had the version that came
with Wonderland, and then he sent me a DVDR of
the longer version, which is what we have on this
Blu ray, and it's and it's also frustrating because I
know he had so much stuff. He had all that
footage for the loops Dock, he had all that extra
footage from WAD and I think it's all gone. I
think it got tossed because.
Speaker 1: Nobody thinks so too.
Speaker 3: Because I asked Mary Anne. God loved Marian, but She's like,
I didn't know what to do with it, and I
didn't know there was so much of it, Casey, I
didn't know what to do with it, and I was
just like I know I got it, and see Cass.
Cass would have sent all that shit to me if
he was well and he knew that, if he knew
that the end was near, he would have just had
someone ship it all to me, because that's what he
did for years. He shipped me everything. I have all
of his scripts, I have all I have all of
his talent releases, I have all of the shit that
he sent me.
Speaker 1: And I mean, if I'd have known that, I would
have drove down and you know, yeah, got something like that.
And I just think that Marianne was just so overwhelmed
and you know, so grieving that it was just like, yeah,
what do I do with this stuff?
Speaker 3: Exactly? No, it was a lot, and that's why she
I mean, yeah, she I remember she felt bad when
she was explained. It was like, you don't have to
explain this to me, like I completely understand, and and
then it made me feel guilty again. Where I was
just like, if I had known that this was this bad,
then I would have been more proactive in interviewing him
first of all, which I never did. We talked every day,
and I never thought, you know what, let's cut the ship,
Let's just do an official interview. Cas did not like
to really do interviews, so he didn't really didn't like
talking about himself that much. So yeah, I miss him,
and I'm thank you for the kind words on the commentary.
I wasn't sure if that was the right approach, but
I figured because he wasn't here too. He was never
a very good self promoter, and so I was like,
now that he's not here and he's not here to
self promote this or self promote anything else that he did.
And so I was like, well, this is the opportunity
to kind of amplify him because he really didn't mind
being in the shadows. And I was like, well, he
doesn't need to be in the shadows now, like people
should really know who he was and the important stuff
he did.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think in reality, like if you're
going to do a commentary on a documentary like that,
there's only so much you can say. So this takes
in there, this takes it in another direction that that
wouldn't have been you know, right, It wouldn't have given
the opportunity to you know, and you know, and I also,
you know, I think you even called out like Lorie
Holmes comment, you know, about John doing movies when he
knew he was HIV positive and just kind of like, well,
you know, I mean that's like that, that is disturbing.
Speaker 3: Yes, they both thought that it eventually, well, everyone's going
to get aged anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Like
she I think that's a literal quote from her from
that documentary, and that makes sense now knowing where she
stands politically. I just put it that way that it
really is just all about her and nobody else. It is,
and you know what political party that is. So yeah, no,
no comment Yeah, Laurie, Yeah you're out there. I don't
care if you hear this. We don't. We don't follow
each other, we don't like each other. So I said
my piece on the commentary much nicer than I'm saying
it now, because I was, I was professional. I was
getting paid for that job. Now, I will tell you, Laurie, no, no, no, thank.
Speaker 2: You, justinl Liberty for thank you.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was a random request that I was very
surprised to get. Yes, I was, Yeah, I'm glad I
did that. And then crazily enough, I found out that
my classmate from n YU who I went to school
with and graduated with wrote the liner notes for that release,
and he is the guy who wrote the book on Loops.
He wrote Let's what is it? Let's go Stag he
wrote that book. Yeah, so so and uh it's crazy that. Yeah,
we both graduated class of thirteen from m YU and
I still need my copy. But he thanks me in
it because he literally he and I were the two
porn guys in our class. That was we were some potigo.
So it's right here. Yes, I definitely need a copy
of that because it's like a major substantial upgrade from
the last Loops book, which that was old, old old.
I think it's black and white and blue.
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, that's the one that I have. I've read
that one. Yeah, black and White and Blue ends basically
around nineteen seventy, That's what it makes. It mostly early early,
like Stag.
Speaker 1: Like, is it that hardback one? It's like brown.
Speaker 3: The one I have is not the one I have
is paperback. But there is one called Dirty Looks.
Speaker 1: That's that's the one.
Speaker 3: That that's the hardback one. Yes, and I do have
that one too, and that one is way out of date,
but that was like that was like the beginning of
all of that, and so people had been building on
that over time. And you know, Dan is great and
Dan Dan is so funny because he just sent me
a bunch of but he runs he he, he publishes
a zine. He sent me a bunch of copies of
the zine. I was like, ah, I love to see
people still doing zines, you know, So shout out to Dan.
Loved Dan. One of my favorite people, Anne Kristen, his
wife who I also went to school with. They're still married.
Speaker 5: Love both of them.
Speaker 1: I want to mention something else too. A couple episodes ago,
I'm just that's my segue into something some other topic beautiful.
Who was it? Red Fox? I never wrote a segue
in my life, you know or whatever. But I also
appreciate you guys a few episodes ago calling out the
AI usage, you know, I mean, that's that's something that's
that's uh disturbing to me in so many regards, and
especially that specific instance.
Speaker 2: You know, we wanted to hold that conversation until you
came on, but just couldn't keep it in any longer.
Speaker 3: It was. It was a damn bursting. There was no way.
We We just had to We just had to let
it go well.
Speaker 1: Didn't I kind of inspire that by a Facebook post
that kind of uh, because I think I posted something
of like, I'm so tired of people that that take
of take some kind of a video clip and run
it through some AI and now say it's a four
K restoration and you know it was for a d
P when you started, and now all of a sudden,
you know, it's just a it's just ridiculous that people
think that that's that's an uprage and you got this
like just bizarre alien looking people because of the you know,
just yeah, I don't I don't get it, and I
don't understand about that.
Speaker 2: It's about them being able to say, you know, click
that little icon and they can show like four K
on YouTube. That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I mean.
Speaker 3: But then also I think provides people this similar to
how there are people who are using AI to reverse
image search adult film actresses and then claim that people
they find or them and they're just posting random pictures
of strangers that they say are these people when they
are not these people. I think there's a sense of
weird kind of ownership that's like, well, now I'm part
of this movie's history and now I'm I'm part of
this and I own a rest like this.
Speaker 1: No, right, yeah, like I just do something like you
didn't do anything.
Speaker 3: I just did something, Yes exactly, I'm just yeah, it's
it's disgusting.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of them like they literally do
not know, like the type of work that goes into this,
the type of working mark. They don't know.
Speaker 3: No, not a clue.
Speaker 1: It's uh, it's not fun. I mean there's there's times
that I just like, it's like, oh my god, it's work.
Speaker 3: Who knew?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's so I mean it.
I mean if we talk about just like you know,
my process, it's it's when I'm going through loops, you know.
I Right now, I have about seventy six hundred titles
in my collection, and and you know not you know,
ninety eight percent of those are hardcore. There's a little
bit in there of like you know, little like Nudi
QUT's and sixteen millimeters and and some you know, weird
wrestling things and odds and ends, but the majority of
it's all hardcore, a lot of European stuff. And on
top of that, I have probably about four thousand duplicates
so when I'm going through everything, you know, if I
decide I'm going to transfer something or whatever project I'm
working on, you know, I'll have to go and I'll
have to inspect sometimes three four five copies of that
to find the best one. And it's so small, it's
so small that you can't just like unspooled look and
get an idea of what the quality is going to
be about The best you can do is say, well,
the color looks pretty good on this, you know, but
you're not going to be able to see a big
scratch going through the entire length of the film. And
and so usually that requires me to, you know, I
hand clean everything, so you know, I add a little
quick leader and you know head or heads and tails,
and I hand clean everything and then I'll you know,
run it through the transfer system and see what I've got,
and you know, hopefully most.
Speaker 3: Of the time.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'll be going through while I'm hand cleaning it
and I'll feel a splice and it's like, well, you know,
can I use this now? Like is there footage missing
or is it or is it just a frame or
two or is it like at a at a at
a transition where it's not going to be something that, uh,
you know, is detrimental to the flow of the film.
And sometimes I'm going to have to use something that
has a trim in it somewhere. You know, it's either
that or nothing. So I would I would prefer to
have something available then nothing. You know, I think we
all kind of agree on that, Like, could we rather
we'd rather see two reels of a three reel film
if that's all we can get.
Speaker 3: Yes, you know there's something ethos Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And then on top of the transfer, then I have
to go in and use the software to clean it up.
Then I go in and I got to do individual corrections.
You know. There's there's some some films that I probably
go overboard and I try to try to kind of
let some of the damage live, like I want some
of that to be in there. But I'll just I'll
just be sitting there frame by frame, you know, hope,
let me let me clean this up, let me trim this,
or you know, whatever it may be. And you know,
before you know it, a few hours have gone by
and it's like I'm working on eight minutes of footage
here and it's taken me like three or four days,
you know. So, so part of that is the economy
of time of like let some of it live. It
should live in there the damage, you know, I want
it to still look like film. I'm leaving the grain in,
you know. And if you think about it, if you're
looking at like eighteen frames per second and eight minutes
of footage, you're nine thousand frames. So am I going
to go through every individual frame? You know? No, I
mean it would take me.
Speaker 3: It would.
Speaker 1: I'd be putting out something like every three years, you know.
So it is a challenge and I and that frustrates
me when I see somebody like, oh, I just restored this,
and it's like you have no idea, like you just
click the button on there. And and that's also something
that it gives me pride, Like you know, the Parmer
Flesh Archives motto is, take pride in your porn.
Speaker 3: You know, porn.
Speaker 1: Porn is a loaded word, but it also shouldn't be
like I use it as kind of like a you know,
attention grabber, but also at the same time, like, so
what porn. That's why I love photographer Paul Johnson. He's like,
I'm a pornographer, like he wears that with pride like
I did it for the sex, Like this is porn,
you know, right, And but you know there is the
pride in it when you when you get to the
end there and you see like what the the end
result is and you know that you put the work in,
you know, and and and when you put the work in,
you get the best results. It doesn't matter who who's
who's doing it. So you know, I'm sorry you you
know armchair guys who are just taking files that you
downloaded and putting them in a you know, in an
app and claiming that you've just restored a movie, like
you haven't done anything, you know. And there was some
some things I was looking at on another Facebook group
where someone had posted an image I think it was
from Star Trek. It was like a behind the scenes
shot of a Star Trek episode where you had like
the you know, the crew and he had the clapper
board and everything and you could see, you know, they
were getting ready to take the shot and that single
frame and someone ran it through like an AI thing
and they thought they'd just done this amazing thing where
they you know, restored this this frame and when you
looked at it in detail from the original image to
the supposedly restored one. It changed the text on the
clapperboard it was written on there. It changed facial expressions
of the people that were in the background, like it
made people smiling that weren't smiling. And you know, I
look at that and I just think, man, that's that's
you know, did you even analyze this image after you
ran it through this app, you know, to see what
it actually altered, you know, And so I mean, I
I just love the fact that there there is so
much stuff that is being restored right now. I'm not
trying to take credit for, you know, being this amazing
restoration guy. I don't really know what the hell I'm doing.
I'm learning something every day, you know, and I'm just
a stubborn guy that just keeps keeps at it until
I figure it out.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Hopefully as time goes by, things get better, you know,
from my own work, and hopefully at some point, you know,
I can actually have some some revenue, or I can
upgrade my equipment.
Speaker 2: Maybe get an assistant. I know, you like to do
everything yourself.
Speaker 1: Trying to make my wife my assistant. You want to
want her to do everything on the you know, she's
been she's actually been like assembling all the Effervescent releases.
So any of you that uh that ordered cards, you
know that, uh you know, my wife lovingly put that
all together and you know, shrink wrapped it and everything
and you know everything.
Speaker 2: Put the condom in there.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, we actually the cards.
Speaker 1: It's funny because we have a debate about the condom
because I think it's better to put the condom in
the package with the opposite side up so you can
see the color of it. She's adamant that it needs
to go face down so you can see the label.
Speaker 2: Now, this is the level of detail into the say.
Speaker 3: I got both, I got, I've received them both ways.
I can't tell you. I have a conference, so you
know what, keep keep alternating. Both look good to me.
So yeah. But also something else to note is that
like a lot of these people that are doing this,
they're doing it, like you said, from like compressed video
files that they're downloading on the internet or like old
vahs rips. So they're never gonna look good and they're
they're gonna look even more otherworldly and alien because they're
not dealing. It's like when people try to use AI
to do well. It's even worse on video. Stuff that
shot on video looks even worse because of the because
of that, because of that bit rate of video and
the different video formats from the eighties and stuff. So
I've seen eighties stuff that's like, God, it looks really terrible.
It looks really disgusting and horrible.
Speaker 1: It makes it brighter, but like wax seats and weird,
and the movements are weird.
Speaker 3: The movements look completely fabricated. Cumshots are disgusting in AI. Yes,
they are really revolting. So yeah, it's just like it's
never good.
Speaker 1: When it comes to restoring eight millimeter films. Cumshots are
my my nemesis. Yeah, you know, the soft the software
usually considers that uh, you know damage and tries to
remove the removed the cum shot. So so I oftentimes
have to go back in and sort of clone you know,
the cumshot back back into the image because it will
take it out wow.
Speaker 2: Because they think it's like a splotch on the negative
or something.
Speaker 1: The way that the software interprets it as if it's like,
you know, additional grain damage or something like that, so
it will like lighten it or remove it completely, so
I have to go back and use some you know
trickery and and uh clone the cum shot back in.
So it's yeah, it's I mean that that is my life.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: My wife comes in and sees uh, you know, genitalia
on the computer screens and I'm you know, drawing out
little dots and trying to clear up you know, scratches,
and you know, so that's that's what happens in our
household here.
Speaker 2: Some will say that's living the dream mark.
Speaker 3: Somebody's dream.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I love it. I mean, you know it,
like I said, it does give a sense of satisfaction.
Speaker 2: And that's all you can do, is like you're satisfied
with your work, you know, the you know, the effort
that's being put into this. And I would just say,
as like a final note, it's just like that's all
you can do, like do keep doing good work and
hope that people will see it and realize that, hey,
this is the right way to do these things. And
like you know, me clicking a AI filter button and
calling it four K, like those people that are not
getting any satisfy, satisfaction at the end of the day,
I would hope no they're doing it for clicks.
Speaker 3: I don't even think they like to watch it.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was going to say. I don't
think they're really fans anyway, So those those people wouldn't
be my customers or anything. So you know, they're just
they're just But the scary thing is is I think
they're just perpetrating the idea that that garbage is is
is good and it's gonna it's changing people's perceptions to
think what is you know, a quality image or what
what to expect in in in imagery and that that
ultimately is what's upsetting to me, that there's not going
to be anything that looks like film anymore. That you know,
there's going to become a trend where you know, who
knows it could become where studios just go through and
they they ai a tie all of their all of
their product and and make it make it look like
that because that's what they believe that the public wants
to see, you know. So I just I hope we
don't get to that point, you know. And and you know,
I love seeing like Vinegar Syndrome and the work the
district picks and and and everybody's doing that is you know,
trying to uh you know, like it's it's not that
we're holding on tight to that nostalgia. It's just that's
the way it's supposed to be, you know. I mean, yeah,
we are holding on tight to that nostalgia. I love
the nostalgia. I live for the nostalgia, you know, but
we're trying to keep it true, right.
Speaker 4: I agree.
Speaker 2: Well, talking about elements here, Casey, let's talk about lunch Wagon,
which has a film we talked about in our last episode.
One of your picks that was number five.
Speaker 3: Yes, it was number five. There was a run only
in chronological reverse chronological order. So yeah, I probably would
have rated I or if I had a choice. But yeah,
So John Charles, God love John Charles. As much shit
as you talk about him, he still he still can.
He still keeps our our group chat going.
Speaker 2: He knows that's out of love.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: I love John. John another one like Nathaniel Thompson and
and and uh Marty McKean, a bunch of people. I've
known those those guys since high school. I've known them
for over twenty five years. So and it's funny I
never met John, but yeah, we've been in touch for
that long. He confirmed that that. Yeah, Mark Bordi, who
I almost reached out to about lunch Wagon, and I'm
glad I didn't because I'm sure he would have thrown
me some bullshit, said he was tired of paying storage
fees for all of his elements for the mark boardy stuff.
So we're talking while talking lunch Wagon, Hollywood hot Tubs,
summer Camp. I feel like Preppies might have been one
of his. I don't remember all the rest of them,
but they were being held at Bonded, which is a
big film lab, and he got tired of paying storage
fees and he just told him to throw it all away.
And so no lunch Wagon restoration, possible nonagraph release of
no cinematograph release, which, considering they're putting out fifty four,
I think that they they could afford to do a
lunch Wagon, considering that apparently quality is not necessarily required
a cinematograph. I will not buy the reviving of the
reputation in a fifty four. It is not Showgirls, which
I do co sign the reviving of that reputation. Fifty
four is not good in any of its versions.
Speaker 1: It's not good.
Speaker 3: Sorry, guys, yeah, I don't like that, but but yeah,
lunch well, considering that lunch Wagon, I think you had
mentioned I think you mentioned somewhere I think in your
Letterbox review was that it was one of the most
probable independent movies of like nineteen eighty one. Yeah, so
there had to be prints out there. So can we
at least get like a nice theatrical print scan for
Blu Ray, I mean that would be nice. Versanne Cayton
would be involved because Rosanna Kayton does interviews. I think
I think the asking price for one of her interviews
I believe. Don't quote me on this, but I believe
it is if you do a substantial donation to her
and her husband's nonprofit. So essentially, if you donate something,
they're very good nonprofit that's doing really good work, that
she will do an interview. So do that and get
a rasin Kateen interviews, she has such good stories.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and I feel I feel like if people
saw if that came out on some kind of like
a double feature with the other that Navy film that
we don't exactly love, but she's.
Speaker 3: Chess Anderson, completely different owners, right, Yeah, so that would
not happen.
Speaker 2: But yeah, anything or anything, Yeah, Roan.
Speaker 3: Summer Camp maybe born Mark Bardy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that she would get like a lot
of new fans. She's just like, she has such a
great energy and such a great look.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's great. And also missing persons, I think because
Dale Bosio is right now, I'm going through a GoFundMe
right now. And uh. And that was kind of fun
because you were not aware of missing persons, I learned
until you watch this movie and Dale Bosio.
Speaker 2: You're like, why are all these missing?
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, music in here, and I was like, oh,
he's really taking with Dale Bosio. That whole Spring Session
M album is like one of the best debut albums ever.
Speaker 2: It's so good.
Speaker 1: I've got that. I'm a vinyl guy, I've got that
vinyl And uh, every time I listened to it, I
think about how heavy it sounds like. It's not it's
not like you know, it's it doesn't have to be
like sounding like death metal to be heavy, you know,
but it it has like a NonStop but chugging along. Well,
it's got a back into it. It's not like this poppy,
you know, water down you know, new wavy kind of
rock sound. That they had, you know, I mean it's
it's driving, and I don't think there's anything on there
that doesn't that isn't a great song, you know. So
I'm not a fan of like the second album at all.
Like I bought it and listen to right, it didn't really
do anything for me. So that's that's the album you
listen to and then you go, I need to listen
to the first one now, you know that. It always
makes you go back to the early.
Speaker 2: More slump, that's what they call it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what it is. And I think she got
a little I think she got I think the legendary
she got a little big for her britches with the
second one. It was it was I think it was
kind of like, well, I'm gonna be the next Debbie
Harry and that did not happen.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, she was doing like they did the
US Festival that year, like what was it eighty three
or eighty two that the US Festival happen, And then
she was wearing that uh it was like these clear
cups that were.
Speaker 3: Like a yeah, I've seen that, I've seen you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was amazing back then. She was in hustler.
You know, I think it was a hustle that she
was in, and maybe it was a Wei I don't
remember which one it was. I have it whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I said, you have it somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's great. I mean, she's she's iconic. But yeah,
that's why I thought it was so funny that I
actually asked Gentry. I was like, so you knew Missing
Persons before this movie, right, He was.
Speaker 2: Like, the never King.
Speaker 3: I didn't, yeh.
Speaker 2: They never crossed my path for some reason. Yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 3: I thought you might have heard words at the very least,
because words is like they're big.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're big hit.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just want to how could nobody ever hear,
you know, walking in l A like that?
Speaker 3: Ye walking in LA So I mean.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm I'm the old guy here, so maybe that
was like, you know, I'm older than you guys, so
maybe that was my bread and butter back then.
Speaker 3: You know. It's so good, Yeah, I mean it is,
but you're right, there is a drive to it. So
it is kind of a perfect mix of like new
wave with like the synth and the electros with punk,
the La punk. So it's like a mix of those
two sounds, and it doesn't sound poppy or edge.
Speaker 1: It's got some edge to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know it's so good and I
love she gets to act in lunch Wagon. She's like
a total bitch. It's great. Oh yeah, she seems like
she's having a real blast. Yeah, I mean it's it
definitely has legs. I mean it's it's incredibly stupid, but
it's self awarely stupid, and I think that makes all
the difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's got explosions, it's got kidnapping.
Speaker 3: There's a lot, and it's got naked playboy playmates. It
has a female bodybuilder, it has Rose Marie is a gangster. Yeah,
it's it's it's just really, it's so much fun. It's
so much fun. I'm glad you watched it because yeah.
Speaker 2: I also watched a female response, which was it was
fun enough. Yeah, separates the worries of all these girls
that are in like one of those therapy session things.
Of course they have Jennifer Wells hers is at the
very end. They save her till the end, like she's.
Speaker 3: Said, Yeah, she was the big the big star. Man.
Speaker 2: I watched Ryan's pick Pecker. I had never seen the It's.
Speaker 3: Really nice Ethol. Ladies come in, They're like they can
see you moving your mouth. That is I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of heart in that film. Yeah, it
really does.
Speaker 3: And I think it's just maybe it's most heart warm.
It's shockingly heartwarming. It's out of all of his movies,
it's the one with the most heart, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 2: A lot of love for the you know, the weirdos.
Of course that's kind of his thing too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so dysfunctional family that you love.
Speaker 2: The whole town is like family. Yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Marky places the mom is great and yeah, I'm like,
we need more of her and more John Waters movies.
She is very mixed stole in that she's very mixed
stolen Pecker.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. Is the stained Queen's.
Speaker 3: Right at the laundromat Marta Clinton as the bartender at
the gay bar in that great wig. Yeah, it's just
like I need to rewatch it. I feel like it
has to be coming. They're making their way down the line.
Speaker 1: What's the name of the strip the lesbian strip club?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what is it?
Speaker 1: It's something?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because it does have that like it's about
you that you have to peek at the muff, right.
Speaker 1: It's like something about pelt or something like that, or
the muff diver or something like that.
Speaker 5: Like it.
Speaker 3: It's something very niche for John Waters. John Waters loves
all of that slang, so he's very good about naming stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm upset that I don't think we're ever
going to see a new John Waters movie.
Speaker 3: I keep hearing Aubrey Plaza is supposed to be in
the new one that he's trying to make money for,
and that's kind of the best possible person working right
now to be in that movie. She's bringing Christina Ricci
vibes from Mike Pecker.
Speaker 1: Well, I got a major crush on Aubrey Plaza, so
I'll watch it anyways.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean it's I mean since what
Dirty Shame.
Speaker 3: Like where like twenty two years Yeah, it's yeah, it's uh,
you know, we need some more John Waters, you know, yeah,
better than that one, because the second half of that sucks.
But you know, I love everything up until the Johnny
Knoxville bullshit. Everything else around it is great.
Speaker 1: It kind of bothers me that it seems like he
was the reason why that movie got made. Yes, like
kind of like once he kind of like attached himself
to it, then they were able to get the budget
and do it. You know, like I very that I
don't necessarily put a lot of you know, it's Johnny Knoxville, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, I mean, you know, because I guess Tracy
having Tracy Aldman and Chris Isaac wasn't enough. You need it.
You I want to have Tracy Almond asking Chris Isaac
if she if he wanted to have Funch, wasn't gonna
get fund Johnny Knoxville.
Speaker 2: He like dates the movie too with Johnny. It does there, yeah,
it does.
Speaker 3: But John Water said that around the time, he's like, well,
you know Jackasses, and he was in Jackass too. He
played like a magician in like disappearing act for the
fact I jumped on Weiman or whatever and uh don't yes, yes,
the listeners, I am a fan of Jackass. Yes, I
own the first two movies. Uh yeah, I think he
said the Jackasses look like a continuation of pink Flamingoes
or it really is like let's see how much six
ship we can do just for fun. So he really
was just like the shock value, you know, which is
what he's mostly about. So it makes sense, but it
also just like the writing around it sucks, like I
would have just folk. I would have liked to just
prefer to focus on I see Almond being a sex
meaning at sex meaning after she hit her head. That
was more than enough for me and her daughter Selmie
Blair with the giant kids that she had to keep
locked in her room because the dance all over town. Yeah,
like there's enough there without the Johnny Knoxville and the
sex cult thing, like I didn't need any of that. Yeah, anyway,
John waters pod has ended literally, yeah I could. I
could do a John.
Speaker 2: Waters pod that yeah, cruro so I also Yeah, and
then I finally watched my pick, Give Us Our Daily
Sex or El Periscopio, that Jose LaaS movie which was
sent to Yeah, John Charles actually hooked me up with
a John Charles Thanks again, John, And I can maybe
kind of see why this hasn't been put out because
there is questionable scenes with.
Speaker 6: A young boy that maybe, oh is it a Queen
of Soada situation, but with a dude, I mean it's
clear that the boy probably wasn't in the scene when
this was happening, certain things happening. Hey, but also the
version that John Charles sent has like inserts, so it's
very awkward, like the obvious insert of like a dick.
Speaker 2: That's supposed to be a little boy's dick, but it's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh gentry what, oh god, what what are you
talking about? Oh my god, this is horrible. It's that
reminds me of how the director of Teenage Chitchackers made
it will be Barbie's Fantasy? Have you seen that? Mark?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: Jim Holliday says it's the best movie with an underage
sex scene where it is a like literally a twelve
year old boy that has sex and his face is
never shown, so we don't know who that boy was.
But it only has ever come out on BHS. No
one else should ever put it out. The guy who
directed Teenage Chitchackers did it terrible. So yeah, it's not
just it's not just girls we have to worry about
in these things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not something that would pursue anyway.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, but hey, Laura Gemser, Yeah, she
is very Laura Gemser.
Speaker 2: If you like Laura Gamser, she's a nurse. There you go,
let's move on.
Speaker 3: I have a question, but I didn't see any of
my movies get any spotlight posts on the Instagram for
the past two weeks.
Speaker 2: Because I haven't seen student nurses yet, because you didn't
send it to me.
Speaker 3: No, because you know why. The version that okay, this
this the credit sequence that I sent you speaking of
AI is from a bullshit AI upscale version that I
had to download to cut the screen credits to send
to you for an audio drop. But that was an
AI Upscale. I don't have any other version of that
because I sold my DVD years ago and now it's
very expensive, so I don't actually own my number one
pick on that list.
Speaker 2: You know what, I do have a clip of a
very funny clip from lunch Wagon that I'm going to post. Okay, okay, good. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was like, damn, my pick sucks.
Speaker 2: No, they didn't. I just okay.
Speaker 3: I was like, damn gentry, Oh my gosh, this is
what happens when I put too much put too much
pressure on you to run the Instagram.
Speaker 4: Yeah, who's your friend? My name is Miller, and I'd
like to ask you a favor. Anything you say gorgeous.
Speaker 3: Fuck me, what a woman.
Speaker 2: Well, before we get into massage parlor, I mean we
touched on ultra flesh a bit, but you know, let
us gush gush a little bit more here because I
would just want to say, I think the commentary track
might be so far the best commentary track, my favorite
that I've listened to this year, just because you and
all of them that mark you and Serena just have
like you've said to us off pod, like and you've
said on the Disconnected show that I listened to. You know,
you guys are really clobose. You know, you consider her
like family, and she's like your auntie. You guys have
such a good rapport that you can tell. You guys
are comfortable with each other so you can talk about everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Serena is not very shy about anything,
you know. And you know, magic of Facebook fifteen years
ago or so, you know, connected with her online and
you know, like the first time that we met was
around the time that her book Bright Lights Lonely Nights
came out and used to be the center for sex.
Speaker 3: Can you see it? Yeah, no, I having this image. Yeah,
it's good to have a signed copy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they would have these events at the Center
for Sex and Culture in San Francisco, which unfortunately is
no longer a physical space because the rent was too
high and they had to you know, close down the facility.
But there would be events out there where they would
have like a there was a tribute to Gloria Leonard
when Gloria passed. It was a tribute to Candido Royale
when she passed. When somebody's book would come out, you know,
Serena came and she had an event for her book.
Richard Pacheco did one for his book Hindsight, which is
probably the best book the adult industry and relationships within
the adult industry and just life that you're ever going
to read. The only thing better than reading Hindsight is
getting the audio book to have Richard Pracheco read to
you his book.
Speaker 3: I cannot recommend that enough. Like I love that man.
I loved Howie so much. Oh yeah, that book is yeah,
you know, I yeah, I he always anytime I post
that on Facebook, he's like, thank you, go find it
and he posts a link under him like, yes, people,
everyone should own this book. You got Whoopie Goldberg to
write the goddamn forward the introduction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the first time I met Howie was Howie
Gordon Richard Pacheco. Because he lives in in Berkeley. I'm
in Sacramento, so it's close, you know, two hour drive,
half an hour and a half drive. The first time
I met him, we went and saw Lovelace together. So
that's because I wanted to go see the movie with
somebody who worked with Gerard Domiano, just to have some
some you know, true perspective on you know, he obviously
wasn't there when Deep Throat was made and all that
kind of stuff. But just like, you know, let's talk
about Domiano and just fell in love with Howie and
his wife. And this is how the anti thing comes around,
because there was a My wife had bought us tickets
to go see Billy Joel. I love Billy Joel. So
we went to it was like whatever the Giant Stadium
is or whatever in San Francisco. And so when we're
going to the concert, we had Serena and her husband
Paul meet us for dinner before the concert, and you know,
we'd already seen each other a couple of times at
the events at Center for Sex and Culture. But this
is kind of like our first time just you know,
being alone with each other, and you know, at dinner,
and I had mentioned that I just I love Howie
and I love his wife that like I tell them
all the time that I want to adopt them as
my parents, you know, And and then Serena was like, well,
well then what would I be? Can I like be
your auntie? You know, and so like it just became
this like running joke where I call her auntie and
she calls me nephew. She called, you know, give my
niece a hug, she says about my wife, and you know,
and and just that friendship blossom from there, and you know,
she's coming and stayed weekends at our house a couple
of times, and you know, spend a birthday here, and
and uh, you know, we just cultivated like that, that
close relationship where we just consider each other family. I
hope and it sounds like that that came through in
our commentary that we can you know, we can talk freely.
It's she's she's not embarrassed about anything that she's ever done.
So and I hope that that rapport that we have
comes through. And of course there's a volume two that's
going to have another two and a half hours of
our commentary. I mean we sat there for like four
days back in March and went through, uh, you know,
a lot of her stuff and and spent a lot
of time watching uh, Law and Order SVU in her downtime,
you know, because she loves that show and doesn't get
to look at that much.
Speaker 2: And I love how much she loves watching herself from
that time period. You know, it's just really refreshing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's it's fun to hear her, like,
you know. I think there's even a part where there's
one called Rabbit Test, so I mentioned in the commentary.
It's like one of my basically like one of my
old time favorite loops. It's her, her and Mike Ranger,
and uh there's a moment where we're both just silent
and we realize that we're just like totally just like
in engrossed in this and we're watching this and uh,
you know, she's she's she definitely wasn't wasn't shy. She's
not shy now, you know, And I love that about her.
She has this this sort of like innocent abandon about
her that that she just seems so so childlike but
mature at the same time. And then that's always right
and so so and to go back to that title.
And she laughed about that, because what I'm doing with
these these uh, you know, star focused additions that I'm
doing with you know, with the actresses themselves, is I
asked them, all, you know, give me one word that
describes you, what word best describes you? And so she
said effervescent. She didn't realize that that's what I was
going to use as the title of of her, you know,
her release, and she kind of laughed about, oh, you're
using that as the title, you know. And I asked
them what what their favorite color is too, so like
Leslie Winston wild heart, like that's how she describes herself,
you know, in purple was her favorite color. So I've
made you know, so I'm trying to add a little
bit of personalization to this, even though no one even
realizes that, you know, effervescent might sound like a weird
thing to name your release, but.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I love it's it. That's how she described herself. And
I think that I was fitting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so why not?
Speaker 1: But I hope people will enjoy it. There was a
lot of work involved in that. The volume two won't
be out until sometime probably later next year. You know,
I want to let this one sell out and do
some other releases as well. And the initial like the NUNDERD,
they're all individually numbered, so one through fifty is like
kind of like the special special edition. Uh, we do
signature cards, so for for this one. For for Effervescent
volume one, there was kind of like a little art
card pack that came with them, where it was like
five cards with posters of her on it and like
the cast details on the back and one card that
was her signature and with a little band around it.
This says Effervescent to hold it all together. I won't
say what the special thing is going to be for
the next one because I don't want to let the
cat out of the bag yet. But there won't be
a signature card for volume two because that's a little
bit redundant. If you already got volume one, you're just
giving like what's the difference. So there will be something,
and not only will it be special, but all fifty
of those will be special. None of them will be
exactly the same.
Speaker 2: Something from we are talking to the man who made
the only Lucio Fulci bobblehead who knows what he's doing.
When it comes to the manufacturing and the details. I
love it.
Speaker 3: I love so great.
Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you something before we, you know,
move on too far. I noticed that there's not a
lot of fetish loops. I was wondering if you were
saving those. I mean, assume they exist, right.
Speaker 1: So she has at least in my research, I think
I've tracked about something like ninety five or ninety eight loops.
And as you guys know, especially in this arena, when
you're going with these loops, there's never any castor credits
or anything. Sometimes you just get up. Most of the time,
especially when they're more obscure, you're getting a blank box
with no details on it at all. It might just
say something like a couple of initials and a number
to try to indicate like what the company potentially may
be in which you know, number of release.
Speaker 2: This is.
Speaker 1: So there's a there's when I say that I've that
I've categorized, you know, like you know, there's I there's
possibilities that I have loops of people that I don't
even know that I haven't got that I haven't got
to you. Obviously, I haven't gone through seventy five hundred
of these these things, you know, I'm I dig them
out when when I need to access them, and I
see what I've gotten and we go from there. So
I'm constantly building a spreadsheet where I'm even if it's
somebody that I doesn't even have a name, you know,
could be well, this person, this is the same person
that's in this loop, and I have, you know, and
I'm putting it in next to the notes with every
single loop that they've been in, trying to just at least,
you know, build some kind type of a filmography. But
when it comes to her fetish stuff, she did a
lot of stuff for a company called Tao Productions Tao
oh yes, yeah, and those have the ones with her
have been pretty difficult for me to find. I do
have a handful of her like kind of female wrestling
fighting ones, and there'll be two of those on the
next volume. It's going to start out with one and
then they'll also be one as a bonus. They were all,
you know, in the mid seventies, and the tow stuff
has been hard for me to get a hold of.
I think Tao did maybe like one hundred or so
titles and I have maybe thirty or forty of them.
But unfortunately, all the stuff that I have and not
anything that she was in. So there's a couple of
things that she did for House of Milan that are
like spanking and other things, and again those House of
Milan are oftentimes hard to get a hold of. I mean,
I do have a large collection of stuff, but I
don't have like everything that you know, House Milan did.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if you were like saving them to
do like a fetish only release because you know a
lot of people know Serena for our fetish.
Speaker 1: Work, and maybe there'll be a volume three if I
you know, come up with with more stuff, you know,
and it's it's been uh uh. There's When it comes
to collecting, there's kind of a weird most I don't
know if weird is the proper term, but it's a
little bit different now than it was years ago. Mostly
now because I was buying like people's collections, you know,
I'd buy three, four or five, six, seven hundred loops
off of people other dealers that were just like they
didn't want to do, you know, they didn't want to
deal with it anymore they were they were closing down
shop or whatever, and you know, I would get massive amount.
I'd get like car loads worth of stuff. So and actually,
in the course of about maybe two and a half years,
I like quadrupled my collection because as I started doing this,
I sort of got known a little bit for for
doing this. And then it it wasn't so so much
as me having to seek out stuff. It was people
to me, say yeah, people coming to me saying, I
know somebody who's who's you know, got a bunch of
stuff or whatnot.
Speaker 3: I still have someone I tried to connect with you,
and I'm let me guess they still have a connected video.
Speaker 1: No, but uh uh, you know it, it's a little
bit overwhelming all the stuff that I have, because part
of it is is my O C D and my
A D D and and just the idea that I
don't know what I have. So that drives me nuts
because I you know, it could be something like maybe
I do have some of Serena's uh you know, bondage films,
they're just maybe mislabeled in a box, or the box
has nothing on it, or I don't have it. Maybe
the maybe the opening of the film was trimmed off,
so I can't see what the uh what, you know,
what was written on the head to identify you know,
I'm not going to sit around and wind movies to
the tail to see what what the details are, you know,
just you know. So, so I have this massive spreadsheet
of things that I have and things that I know about.
I think there's about fifteen thousand titles on my spreadsheet,
and then I just notate what I physically have, and
you know, an indicator. It basically everything's in boxes, you know,
numbered boxes, and then I just when I need it,
I go grab that box and I you know, fish
it out of there. And it's it's a lot to
deal with. You know. I also have I'm sure over
eight thousand magazines to sort through, and you know, in
my ultimate goal, I wish that everything would be of
course cataloged to you know, page number, or I could
just go like, you know, Serena's on page this in
this magazine, which of course, of course is a impossible goal.
You know, if I was a you know, a billionaire
and I could pay a bunch of people to come
do that, yeah, that'd be great, but that's never going
to happen. So it's it's oftentimes it's a lot of
searching through things just to find to find stuff, and
hopefully I get more of her stuff because I am.
It bothers me that I don't have her you know,
bondage titles that she did. I do have a lot
of her magazines, and she did a lot of.
Speaker 2: That work, a lot of great magazine photos. And you're
in the special features.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wanted I wanted her photo gallery in
this one to have some you know, continuity. So because
we spent a couple of days just looking at her magazines,
you know, and uh, you know, she loved it. She
was just like a lot of stuff she didn't remember,
you know. She had just be like, oh my god,
look how cute I am, and you know, and and
just like admiring herself and and and the uh I
think I came with two magazine boxes full of just
her her stuff, you know, in piles of posters and things,
and and she just was like, I didn't have any
idea I did that much stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't either until I looked at this
magazine gallery on the Blu Ray. I was just like
Jesus Christ. She really was everywhere and and that's worked NonStop.
Speaker 1: That's of course not complete. You know, there's other magazines
out there that that she's on the cover of that
that I don't have, you know, and I I tried
to put them inside some type of chronology or you
know where it starts out with like early stuff and
uh you know, maybe moved like a section where she
was doing bondage because uh, she she mentioned because because
her her career kind of happened pretty quickly, like she
in her mind, it seemed like it was a long
time because she did a lot of work in a
short period of time. But she went from you know, photography,
you know, doing modeling into film, softcore film. I'm making
a guess probably within like six seven months, you know.
And when you look at those magazine covers, there's a
lot of them where she's got wigs on, and you
know that was something that would happen, uh, you know,
primarily in the seventies because you'd get a new model
and everybody would want to shoot them. You know, they
say they get shot out in a couple of months,
because every photographer in town has now shot them. They've
appeared in every magazine. So as a corny way to
try to cover that up, they would put different put
wigs on, you know. And that's why every magazine would
have like a different name, because it would seem like
it was somebody different. Uh, there were some stuff that
that is labeled as Serena. I mean that's her, that's
her real name, so it's not like a pseudonym. So
she she would use her real name in some things,
but most of the magazine shoots either didn't or the
publications either didn't include a name or be some fake name,
you know, with some bogus story that went behind it
of what you know, a photo shoot was about or whatnot.
But you know, she was really prolific in that she
she enjoyed the bondage stuff. She said she was very
surprised to learn that it was very comforting to her,
Like she felt very relaxed. It was almost serene for
her to just be bound and in that moment. And
and and a lot of her stuff too looks looks factual.
And I say that with with bondage because you can
look at magazines where you know, they have a chain
around them and it's like it's not even attached anything
or or you know, someone's some I have one. It's
that's a bunch of these girls that are supposed to
be tied up against the wall, and one of the
girls simply just raising her arms up as if she
was tied, but there's not even a rope around her
wrists or you know, like it's just so like fake
and photo phony and you know, and uh but yeah
and and uh you know, having some photos interspersed in
there in the photo gallery of her holding those magazines.
You know, what I thought was a was an interesting
and kind of welcome treat, you know. And it's not
so much that you know, she's not hiding from being
Serena or.
Speaker 2: Who she is now. It's just like this is who
I exactly, you know, look exactly, this is life like
we all age like to be ashamed of there either,
you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't guess about her anymore than you
know I have. I just I just love her to death,
you know, like she's she's just a sweetheart. And you know,
I love the fact that that you know, we consider
each other family. I mean, my wife's dyed her hair,
you know, like I mean, it's it's like that's that's
that's the level of you know, I love that we
have for each other.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: What my cherry, I already got it.
Speaker 2: Have another.
Speaker 1: I like the first one.
Speaker 2: There well, like I said, yeah, it comes across in
that commentary and I thought it was amazing. Yeah, I
loved it. But you know, I said at the beginning,
like this was early Serena in this movie Massage Parlor Wife.
Do you know much about like where she was nineteen
seventy four, like in terms of like how much magazine
work she had done prior, Like where is she in
her life at this point?
Speaker 1: This is probably about the same that I said, you know,
six seven months, seven eight months you know into her career,
and she pretty much went full bore into it. You know,
she was she had been working at was Bob's Big Boy,
a restaurant down Athink in Burbank, and once she started
doing some photo shoots. It's the same story you've heard
from everybody that gets into the business, you know, like
I did one photo shoot and I made a week's
worth of pay that I had, you know, at at
whatever waitressing job or office job that I was doing.
So and then she got hooked up with how Gothu
as a as a an agent. I actually spoke to
her a little bit more about this movie last night
and trying to determine, you know, how she got involved
in it, and she she did not know who Harry
Novak was. So so my guess, my guess, and you know,
she she she's basically agreeing with me, although she just
agreeing with me, you know, was that she that it was?
Do you know, casey, if if if Harry Novak cast
people through hal Gathu, because I think that's so that's
how Yeah, absolutely so, So I think that's just the
connection of of Novak, you know, having the connection with
hal Gathu and then calling yeah, and what's his name,
Spinolo and just saying like, here's here's your star, you know, here,
here's your star of the movie.
Speaker 3: Right. That's interesting though, that that's kind of what happened
because Spinella was based in San Francisco at that time,
So I don't know why he wouldn't think that there
would be someone at San Francisco that would be available
to make this film. But you know, I don't know,
that's no back, so who knows.
Speaker 2: That's a comforting story to me, because yeah, when I
had heard from Barry this this story of how you
know he had already cast someone for it, and then
Harry Novak called and said, hey, fire that girl. I've
got the girl for you. You know, my mind went
to like dark places, like what's the story. Here's this
a casting couch situation with Harry and Serena. But the
fact that I remember him.
Speaker 3: I absolutely don't see that being the case. I don't
I don't see I don't see Serena doing that. Would you?
I didn't either, But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe my mind goes to please you.
Speaker 3: Know, Serena's arena, I got. I get that because Serena
is someone that just naturally you feel protective of, just
because she has that persona and kind of that vibe
where it's like there's something very precious about her. No,
I don't want her to be in a situation, but
she would not have she wouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1: No, And I don't think that that. I think it's
just the simplicity of maybe maybe Harry Novak, you know,
uh went down to Hal's or how came over and said,
here's some of the new girls I got. You know,
do you want to Castle maybe, and he just saw
that picture of Serena and was like, that's that. That's
a girl that I want in this movie. And Spinola's
is like, well, okay, you know you're the boss. You're
the one paying for it, so I don't really have
a choice at this point.
Speaker 3: Pretty much.
Speaker 1: She did mention, and I don't know if if this
is specific to this movie, but she she thought that
in this one that there were some scenes that were
shot in a in a whorehouse, and she said that
that I could believe it that they were that the
girls in the movie were propositioned if they wanted a
whoror at the whorehouse, you know, like like yeah, okay,
you shot your scene here today, Like do you want
to work the night? You know?
Speaker 3: Like interesting, well, San Francisco, who knows? You never know, Yeah,
I don't know. I believe that. I believe that she.
Speaker 2: Didn't remember like the oil, the olive oil being poured
all over her.
Speaker 3: She didn't.
Speaker 1: She didn't mention any of that stuff. And you know,
I mean, this stuff seems very specific to us, but
it's it's something that that you know, a lot of
these people, I'm sure forgot about a week after they
a week after they did this, you know, Like you know,
and Serena does have some some issues with her with
her memory. Uh, a lot of it is still pretty sharp,
but you know, she did have that month long coma
years ago and she kind of when she came out
of it, she pretty much had amnesia and has been,
you know, recapturing her memories ever since then. Although she's
you know, they are pretty clear and she's got most
of them back. But yeah, again, you you have you
have these people that that went from job to job
to job probably every day, it's probably sometimes two times
a day, you know, and it just it starts to
blend in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and again we're talking.
Speaker 1: Fifty fifty years ago, you know.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I've said that, I've told you that in
the past, gener we're talking about a weekend at most
in someone's life. They're not You're they're not going to
remember what they did on Saturday and Sunday in May
nineteen seventy five. Like, yeah, that's just not that's not
going to happen. That There are specific cast members you
could potentially bring up, or locations or things like that,
Like Brandy Saunders, She's in two movies with so I
don't know if she remembers Brandy Saunders. I don't know
anyone that does, unfortunately, but because she's kind of amazing.
But yeah, she drifted it and out.
Speaker 1: I won't say that the movie is disposable, but in
their memory it is. It was just something that they
did that day. And then they you know, they're not
putting any stock into it. They're not thinking someone's gonna
be even talking about it next week. They don't even
they probably don't even know if it's ever gonna come out,
you know, Yes, so right, that's just what I did
that day. No different than if I was like a
painter and I painted somebody's house. I don't remember that
house that I painted on, you know, July third, nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 3: You know, and sexploitation and adult are both similar in
that way. You can't ask about a specific movie. Also
because they might not know the title that it came out. Yeah,
like you said, they might not know it came out.
So that's why, like, yeah, any anytime you're gonna interview
some from this time, titles aren't helpful. Plots aren't helpful,
like names might be helpful, Locations might be helpful. It
really depends. Like like if you if you asked her
about Domiano, she would know Domiano, but she might not
remember that she was in Never Too Deep in a
non sex role as like a secretary to Paul Thomas,
but she would remember that she worked for Domiano. So yeah,
like specifics about specific films are like a real crapshoot.
And I learned that. I've learned that well, even the
interviews I've done.
Speaker 1: Even with names. When I mentioned Harry Novak, she goes
to did he work under a different name? Like she
just immediately thought, like that, there's a there's aliases to this,
like maybe that's the screen name but not the personal
name or vice versa. So you tend to you know,
and like speaking of names, like she's not Serena in
this movie, she's uh j Jan Gillian so or or
more specifically Gillian because she's naming herself after Ian Gilly
and the singer of Deep Purple. You know, she's a
she loves all that stuff, like she considers like led
Zeppelin and Deep Purple like still some of you know
her favorite bands. And I think she used this there's
another movie that she used it in, so she's Jen
like j E n in this one, and then I
think in uh, there's another one where she was an abduction,
abduction of Laurel. I. Oh yeah, oh that thing that
she called that she calls herself jan j A n
N Gillian. And I think there might be some other
thing that she did where it says like, uh like
Jen Serena Gillian.
Speaker 3: Yes, and that's Dames and Dreams, which was never released.
So I'm guessing they're just going by I don't know,
talent release or something for that. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then that's just that's what she wanted to
do that in tribute to Ian Gillian. That's all it was,
you know.
Speaker 2: That little personal touch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Melanie is a legitimate license from suits. I trust her.
Speaker 2: You're so naive, Casey, So yeah, I can't. We keep
running into Harry Novak.
Speaker 3: So this is we don't really have anything more to
talk about with him in this. All he did was
finance it and distribute it. That's all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's always and so we.
Speaker 3: Don't need to talk about him no more, which is
good because I don't want to talk about him. I
don't like him, you know, I don't like him. The
only thing I will say that is interesting is that
the version that came out on something reird video opens
with the Valiant International logo, which means that either he
went back and added that to whatever print or negative
this was used that was used for this transfer, or
it's a reissue print that was used for this transfer.
Because box Office was still around in seventy five when
this came out. Box Office didn't go into business until
seventy eight, and then he rebranded in nineteen seventy nine.
I feel like, allegedly, I will say allegedly because I
don't need anybody sue in my ass, allegedly, I believe
that it was to get out of some kind of
tax problems. So he declared bankruptcy for box Ofven International
and then rebranded as VIP, and then also rebranding is
VIP meant that any of the moneies that he owed
people on Box Office International no longer were owed. It
was a new company. So he then fabricated a sale
from box Office International of all of the Box Office
International library too Valiant and so then as the now
owner of Valiant, and people came back like Frederick Garfriedel
and said, well you owe me money? Oh no, this
is it's under Valiant now, and do you actually owe
me money because we haven't made any money back on
this title as Valiant yet. So that's that's the Novak special.
Uh yeah.
Speaker 2: So I talked to Barry Spinella yesterday actually on the phone,
so I asked him that specifically. I was like, you know,
how was it dealing with Harry, you know, did he
treat you fairly? And all Barry said was he paid
me one hundred dollars a week for four months, and
that's all my dealings with Harry Novak.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: He did the he did the shoot, and then he
went to Harry's actual office and edited for three months.
Speaker 1: That's a long time to ed yeahems like that would
have been edited in a couple of days.
Speaker 3: That's a long time. Wow. Okay, Wow, that's longer than
Mark Haggard editing Love Garden All American Girl, and he
got in trouble for that. They wanted it done in
like three weeks.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much time he's spending each day.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of that's kind of good though, I mean,
or maybe no, because I think Novak would have said something. Yeah,
but if he was paying him one hundred dollars a
week for that long, that's pretty nice. I will say,
that's not your typical sexploitation set up. They want it
quick and they want it now, So four months to
edit something like this, it's only seventy seven minutes.
Speaker 2: Well here's the other thing too. You know, Barry had
made this movie before this, bizarre.
Speaker 3: Devices he spent.
Speaker 2: He set the budget for that with seventy five thousand dollars,
which is she's.
Speaker 3: Quite a bit for that's for a particular movie at
that time. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So maybe Harry was like, hey, I'm dealing with
a guy who you know, was paid seventy five thousand.
He made a movie for seventy five thousand dollars before this, so,
you know, treating him a little nicer maybe than he
would somebody else.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, I don't see Novak doing that.
I don't know. I will say that, I yeah, I
think Barry may may like to know that that he
was treated better by Novak than ninety percent of the
people that work with Novack. So that's good. Everyone else
has sheer horror stories about working with Harry nomack.
Speaker 2: And he did say the budget, yeah, for Massage Parlor
Wife was thirty thousand, so oh my.
Speaker 3: God, Well wait a minute, the budget was thirty thousand,
and he made one hundred grand in four months to
edit it.
Speaker 2: No, one hundred dollars. Well, he made one hundred dollars
a week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so for four on that so four times four
that's eighty grand roughly, so it was over one hundred grand.
Speaker 1: Was the hundred bucks a week? Not one thousand dollars
a week?
Speaker 3: Yeah, hundred one hundred bucks a week, so four hundred
Oh okay, No, that isn't as much as I thought.
That's still a lot though, Wow, okay. Interesting, that's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it ultimately didn't didn't work out, you know,
maybe maybe Barry is not being as forthright as with
the details, you know, maybe it's soured. Maybe it was
taking him too long too to edit the film and
produce it for Harry and he and you know, maybe
he got, you know, kick to the side. Isn't there
some indication that that Harry wanted a more hardcore version
or wanted to add.
Speaker 2: Yeah, spiced it up a bit, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And and it's interesting because I watched it again a
couple of days ago, and it seems like it progressively
gets a little bit naughtier throughout the runtime. Like it
starts out kind of reserved, you know, the first sex
scene with Serena and what's the husband's.
Speaker 2: Name, Tomah or whatever, and everything's just a little bit
out of frame.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's like like he's he's doing the whole
I've got my pants on, but we're having sex when
you don't have any clothes on type of a sex scene.
You know, the first the first massage parlor scene with Serena,
you know, she was his uh who's the actor and
that one Tyler Reynolds. Yeah, she reaches over and you
can see her a grab his penis, but then the
camera pans over the left real fast, like oops, like
oh ship, like like we didn't mean to capture that,
you know. But then towards the end, like we get
like you know, we're getting like full male nudity and
and sort of heavy, heavy, simulated sex hard. Yeah, which
that scene is funny too because it looks like, you know,
and we're jumping from the beginning of the movie to
the end of the movie. But like when tom comes
out and uh, you know, Tom's here and Tom's ready,
Like it looks like he's coming already. Yeah, He's like,
that's Tom's ready and Tom already came, like like Tom's
done before even.
Speaker 3: I think he's dripping with pre come. I believe it's
pretty heavy though, but what do I know. Yeah, well,
speaking from personal experience, they are very heavy drippers. Yeah,
so anyway, yeah, so it's like I saw that and
I was like, been there, done that. I get it.
Speaker 2: A Maybe that's why you can't get this declassified from
its adult label on IMDb, because it's close.
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody, I don't think anybody in charge
of the categorization of this movie has seen this movie
to know that gentry like they're not. The IMDb staff
isn't like, well, there's that heart on in this movie.
I think they're just looking at the X rating in
nineteen seventy five and thinking, well, this is X and
it's hardcore. Super Vicx's was X at the same year,
and that wasn't hardcore and that's not marked as adults
on IMDb.
Speaker 2: Well that's russ Meyer too.
Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is that softcore is still existed
in seventy five. You can't go by an X rating
in seventy five and be like, well, this is hardcore
not the case. Not the case, And.
Speaker 2: I'm saying russ Meyer gets like preferential treatment in that
case on IMDb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm talking about IMDb. I'm talking about the fact
that these things are labeled the wrong way. They these
This staff doesn't know who rouss Meyer is.
Speaker 1: Like, technically Meyer's stuff came out unrated. He didn't even
submit him to the to the ratings board when he
distributed his films. He just played them unrated, so technically
they're not They're not.
Speaker 3: As super I have a Supervix's poster with an NEXT
rating on it, does it? Yeah? Maybe Ultra Vixen's was
unrated though the Supervixens definitely was an X. But that
reminds you had no back for releasing stuff with like
our ratings on them, even though they were fully super
duper graphic, like Sassy Sue with Tally Cochran putting Patrick's
putting John Toll's cock on our lips. Oh yeah, yes,
that that is not marked as adults on IMDb. That's
very graphic.
Speaker 2: I totally agree, though, Mark yeah, it does get progressively,
but that's kind of what I think. That's also kind
of a novak trademark in a certain way, like I
think movies do get you know, he makes you wait
till the end of the movie to get the hardest stuff.
And I mean that long like forsome scene at the end. Yeah,
it's it could be real. You know, you could argue
you could. You could see people walking out like, yeah,
I got my money's worth. I think they're having sex.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there was a spot in there that I
that I questioned too. I had watched it a couple
of times, and I don't know if it was just
Serena acting to pretend that she was inserting Tom into her.
But when she gets on top of them, she reaches
around behind her as if she's like positioning him, you know,
to insert. You can't see anything, so maybe it was
just uncomfortable and she was pushing him out of the way,
or or maybe that was I don't really feel that
that there was likely much direction there, right, you know,
the director's not you do this so we can pretend
like that's happening. But if you are a fan of
dirty Feet, yeh. Brandy Saunders has a very very very
dirty souls in that in that final scene there, So
you're interested in that. That's a good one.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. That's but honestly, that's very San Francisco hardcore's
it's a lot of hit hippy girls. Yeah, it's hip.
It's hippy girls that would walk barefoot in the park
and then show up, show up on the set.
Speaker 2: I also wonder how much people were just like ashing
on carpets back then.
Speaker 3: You're saying, maybe, I don't know, I don't know, but
that's very it's a very l A thing, very l
a or not very San Francisco thing. It's very like
the hippie hippie girls and hippie guys, just dirty souls.
Speaker 2: Well, you were saying, Mark, you know about Serena, you know,
real or not? Well, real or not. I think Serena,
like part of why I love this movie is just
because Serena is going like one hundred and ten percent
and every scene, you know, if she's faking it, it's
like the greatest faking ever.
Speaker 1: Right, She's she's I mean, she's in every scene here.
So this is her movie, right, you know, and it's
and you know, you talk about hippies, like there's and
there's a scene where she's like going around giving people flowers,
m you know, like just just roaming around the streets
and you know, happy Serena.
Speaker 2: He's doing a little somersault.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fun ye right. You know, that's her being effervescent,
you know. And there's a couple of scenes in there
where that scene where she u with Tyler Reynolds, when
she's doing the trying to give him the happy ending,
her facial expressions on there just cracked me up because
she's so the way she's playing it is there's an
innocence to her, but she has this look of like determination,
like I'm supposed to be getting him off, So like
she's kind of doing these kind of like brow movements
and these like like questionable looks that she's kind of
looking down at his at his penis, you know, like
like am I doing this right? Am I not doing
this right? Like why hasn't he come yet? You know.
So so I'm not trying to overembellish on the scene,
but that was what, you know, what I got from it,
and it was and it seems like in the scene
she's she's so in she's so focused on what her
task is that he's kind of feeling her up and everything,
and it's almost like she doesn't even realize, you know,
the character doesn't even realize that he's you know, pulling
her breasts out and caressing her and all this stuff,
because she's just so determined that she's going to get
this guy to a happy ending.
Speaker 2: He's trying to be the best at her job exactly.
Speaker 1: So the first that first massage customer, Tyler Reynolds, she
she worked with him later and there's a actual a
bonus loop on Effervescent where she's with him and another
I believe unknown star right and the loop. The loop
was called blowing Balls, you know, some of these dorky
titles that they have for the loops. He I think
did about seventeen loops. When I looked through my my lists,
and then the other people that are in the movie
as well, pretty much every one of those except for
Tom whoever plays Tom Tom, I don't know, does he
have any other credits?
Speaker 3: That actor?
Speaker 1: No, what was his name?
Speaker 3: You talked to Steve Rogers, but you talked to Barry
about that, did you not?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: I asked them about I asked him about Jim.
Speaker 3: Oh, he didn't do.
Speaker 2: Anything about Tom m hm. No, he just said, yeah,
he just thought they were locals, just local quote unquote actors,
is what he said.
Speaker 1: And character of Tom being Serena his husband in the
movie Who's Who's struggling with the idea that his his
wife is working in a massage parlor and it doesn't
know the extent of what the hygienks are that she's
you know, working through and is very tormented by it
throughout the movie.
Speaker 2: But it's funny, yeah, like who is you know, it's
funny that, like you said, a lot of these players
in this movie, you know, we can't identify or you
found him in loops or they did hardcore later like
we said, this guy Tom Steve Rogers, like he's he's
he's coming like you said, he's coming out with his
dick hard in this movie. But he never did any
hardcore that we.
Speaker 1: Know of her.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a strange, strange case.
Speaker 1: Like the David book, Who's in there? I think I
have six of his loops, I've cataloged nine. Claire James,
I have one of them, one of the possible. I
only know of two loops that that I've documented that
I've found. I have one of those. Even Brandy Saunders,
I have five of her loops. I have Catalog six.
She she primarily appears, and I think it's the Soul
Sex series. She has a lot of inter racial as
far as the loops go, because that's a good visual contrast.
I think casting a redhead with she's very pale, and
so a very pale white girl with a black performer
is going to have that appealing to that audience. It's
like you want somebody pale. She was in The Swing
Thing with John Holmes where she doesn't look exactly illegal
in that film. So I was always a little suspicious
of Brandy Saunders.
Speaker 2: She's just like they were just marketing her that way.
So no, I mean when you.
Speaker 3: Watch the film visually, she does not look of age
and swing thing. Yeah, nobody's marketing Brandy.
Speaker 2: So he said anything, you mean like she's got, like
you're saying more than like just pigtails in her hair
or something.
Speaker 3: No, I mean she looks underage. Yeah, like she looks
under age in the Swing Thing. She definitely ages up
at the more work she does. Uh So yeah, I
don't know. I find her fascinating. I'd love to know
more about her. And she's in Dames and Dreams with Serena.
So I'm just kind of like that, where's that casting from?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: Who casts? Who casts this person? Yeah? I don't know,
not a hell get interesting. No Brandy San Francisco. Okay,
everyone in this movie San Francisco except for Serena except
she was She was San Francisco for a while. Was
she not eventually or did she started in San Francisco.
I'm trying to remember now.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think she started in San Francisco.
She was Southern California based, and then she went to
New York and then she stayed there for two years.
And then when she came back to California with Jamie,
with Jamie Gillis, I believe that they settled in San
Francisco and then and then because they were living there,
she was working for a period at Mitchell Brothers o'feral
theater and then yes, uh, and then at some point,
you know, she she broke off with Jamie and Jamie
went back to New York, and she stayed in California
and then she's and then she you know, in the
around eighty three eighty fourish, she got out of the
business and you know, was married to somebody and focused
on art and you know, just kind of did kind
of her own thing, you know. I mean, she had
basically like a pretty solid nearly ten year run, you know,
and and look at the legacy that she left in
that ten years.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I always, I guess I would think of
her as San Francisco because she is so free with
her sexuality, which I don't associate with LA girls at all,
like it is. Yeah, I I associate LA girls with
actresses that are trying, women that are trying to be
actresses or models, and with Serena, she strikes me as
San Francisco, where it's very like I'm doing this because
I love sex and I and I want to share
that with people.
Speaker 1: Well, you got you got to remember that her her
interest in sex is driven by mania because of she
had she had undiagnosed bipolar disorder, So that's that's that's
a I guess mental coping mechanism that that people that
have bipolar they're hyper sexualized. So it's almost like she
medicated herself with with sexual activity. She she clearly says
that she didn't. She doesn't regret anything that that she
ever did. In our commentary, I think on this one
she jokingly mentioned there's a penthouse layout that she did
that has a Nazi theme, and she that she had
never had never done that at this point because you know,
in retrospect that's it was in poor taste. But there
was all kinds of Nazi ship coming out in the seventies,
you know, good or bad, you know, as stupidity as
it was. But you know her her, it's probably I
guess this is a little premature for the commentary for
part two. I don't think it's in part one for
the Effervescent, but I you know, I asked Serena like
what she would have done if, if you know, she
hadn't been, you know, in the sex industry, and she
said she would have liked to have been a teacher.
She does happily state that, you know, she looked at
this period as as educational. She wanted to you know,
in some ways, you know. She she says that like
Jamie Gillis was a gormand he wanted to devour everything,
and I think she also was like that, even though
she may not categorize herself like that. But because because
of that mania, she had to you know, in a way,
it's sort of like an addiction, like it's it's medication
for her. She and and but she embraced it, you know,
and there were times that she was obviously difficult to
deal with. You know that that mania also has uh.
I mean, we could look at, you know, having a
super horny partner as a positive. You know, I I
dated someone years ago when I was younger who had
by polar disorder, and it was not a uh it
was it was a hostile relationship a lot of times
because of that uh, that disorder. So you know, she's
talked about like getting violent with people, and it's not
coming from a place of anger. It's coming from that
that mania that is inspiring that that physical reaction. So
so her her sexuality is a physical reaction to to that.
Her her violence is a reaction to that, you know.
I mean I had a that that girlfriend that I
was with at the time, she tried to stab me
once because she was so caught up in her her mania.
And and and to the same case, she was super horny.
She wanted sex all the time, almost to the point
where it was annoying. I was like, man, can't I
just like have a break here?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: So so when I when I talk about those things
with her, I can I can put a personal spin
on it as well, not by having had that mania
or having bipolar disorder, but having experienced four years being
with someone who had that, who has that like it
doesn't go away. But so up until a point where
she was able to finally have it properly diagnosed and
be medicated, you know, that was her mania. We got
to see her mania play out on screen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was going to say, Like, that's
part of her performance in a way, it comes through.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a few other actresses I know of
that later we're finally diagnosed with bipolar and then they
look But then I think the difference is that Serena
is able to look back on that time and be
like and not be ashamed of it and embrace it
and discuss it, where there are other actresses at that
point are like, well, I was mentally ill, and so
I don't want to look back at that because it
was something very public and they consider it as something
where like I was being very publicly mentally ill and
so it pains them to even look back at that.
Speaker 1: And so she's not turning it around and so like that, yeah,
turning it around and saying like I regret everything I
did and it wasn't me. It was because of the mania.
You know, it was the mania. But she embraced it,
and she she took it as far as she possibly could,
and and and and believes that she was being educated,
you know, sexually and and about men and about women,
you know, in ways that normal I guess normal quote
unquote people would never experience, you know, and I and
there's there's always that, uh, you know, that part of
me that's sort of jealous of people that have been
in this industry for having like the guts and the
courage and things to explore those things. If that's if
they if they were in a position where they truly
were interested in exploring that, you know, like someone like
Veronica Vera who who that you know, she didn't do
a lot of a lot of adult films, but she
she dove personally deep into the world of sexuality and
wanted to experience and understand and know everything.
Speaker 3: You know, to all degrees. She was a journalist and
a writer too, so she was also able to like
she was able to funnel that in to another way
of sharing that with people at the time, and she
still doesn't now she has that substack. That's great. Yeah,
she's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I adore her. I adore all the Club ninety ladies,
you know, I mean, they're all of them. Yeah, you know,
as far as like Gloria Leonard. I'm still working on
her biography. It's just it's a it's a slow moving thing.
Speaker 3: Books with Robin Robin, We love her daughter, Robin love
Robin Wright.
Speaker 1: Writing a book is a very daunting task for me.
I mean, you you read my routeray More book not
trying to plug. It's sold out, so if you wanted
to buy it, you can't right now. But yeah, but
hopefully I can get a paperback version of that at
some point. It's just it's not like in my direct peripheral.
It's in my peripheral right now. I'm not focused on it,
but it's I don't again, It's it kind of goes
back to the meticulousness of how I try to restore films.
I don't understand how people could just write a book
about somebody and have it out in like six months
or something. I mean, it's it's yeah, it's something that
you have to there's the meticulousness of it is something
that is daunting for me. So I have to get
myself into a into a proper headspace to be able
to say, like I'm going to be like excavating down,
deep down into these things to find you know, this information,
and and taking hours on end just to maybe come
up with two sentences because I have to be certain
that what I'm commenting about or whatever it is correct.
Speaker 3: So that's why mine still is nowhere near done. And
you know, I'm my own worst enemy because there's there's
too much stuff that I'm like, well, I overlook this.
This is an incomplete text, and it's terrible. That's a
that's a meant, that's another kind of mental illness.
Speaker 1: But if you believe that it's incomplete, don't don't rush it.
Speaker 3: You know, I agree. So we talked, We're talked Michael
Boone about that, where he was like, I'm glad I
didn't put out my Wishman in Sarno Books because I
found so much other stuff over the time that I
didn't publish them that now they will be more complete
when they're done, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the thirty years I took with the
Rutery More Book, and I think about like if I had, uh,
if I had done that after ten years, like how
honestly pathetic the book would have been. Like there's just
so so not you know, so much that that that took.
And I used to always just tell people that where's
the book, where's the book? And I'd say, I'd rather
have it right than rushed. I'm not going to just
put this out, you know, just because you know the
movies that the Dolomite is my Name is about to
come out. You know, yeah, that would be like the
hot time to put it out, but it wouldn't have
been complete. So you just got to keep sticking to it.
And uh, you know, regardless of what the quote unquote
market believes it should be, you know, like make it,
make it what it has to be, and and don't
don't compromise. There's never going to be a revised and
updated you know, thank you for letting me be myself.
You know, the Rude More Book that that is it
period definitive, you know, so make yours that way too.
Speaker 3: But you know what that reminds me of I remember
that I told Howie this and he couldn't. He thought
it was hilarious. There's an interview with Howie Gordon Richard
Checo in a nineteen eighty four issue of ABN. It's
one of the first issues, and he says, yeah, I'm
in the middle of writing my memoirs right now. Look
for it in nineteen eighty five. Thirty years later it
comes out and it's a masterpiece. And that's what it needed.
It needed that additional thirty years of living, experience, education,
life lessons, being a father, you know, like all those
things contributed to that book and understanding how to better
tell his own story.
Speaker 1: Well, so it's called it's in the pilot.
Speaker 3: It's all kind of size.
Speaker 1: It's hindsight there, there was no he didn't have hindsight
in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 3: No, like he was really struggling. That was a struggle
year for him. That was that was not the best
time for him in those mid eighties. When you read
the book, you know that that was not a good
time for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, he had to become a father, he
had to have those marital issues, He had to put
the pin on his sexual activities. You know, all those
things had to happen. So yeah, I mean it's it's
it's frustrating because it feels like a never ending project,
you know, and we get down on ourselves of like,
you know, I I get down on myself because I
think that, you know, Robin might be mad because it's
taken me so long to do this, and you know,
I might not be like communicating with her all the
time on it, but you know, I'm trying to get
to a certain point before I bring her into meticulously review,
you know, and then also just continuing my research and
the same same things like you're doing. You know, you
get to that spot and you have an unanswered question,
and that unanswered question, even if it's just one, puts
the brakes on everything. It's not done. I need to
know what this is, you know, where where does it
all fit in? So just keep doing what you're doing,
don't don't be afraid of how long it takes, you know,
and and it'll be better, you know, it'll be better
because because of it. You know, the more we continue
to learn, the more that we continue to write. You know,
there was so many things that I looked at in
my book that I was like, man, I was so
wrong about this, you know, in the ruteray More book,
Like if I would totally blew that fact, you know,
if I would have put that out. You know, there
was some really bonehead things in there that I was like,
Oh my god, I can't believe that, like that that
that you know that that's what I thought. You know. Yeah,
I've just like, uh, just knowing things like here's here.
I'll use one specific example. So there's a there's a
recording device that they use and doubt they use it anymore,
but in films, it's like the I think it's the
uh the real to real that they chord sound on
called a nagra. So I had gotten a photo of
someone with the nagra from like shooting Dolomite, that I
got from someone from the set, and the way that
it was worded from the caption that he provided for
the photo, I thought the lady's name was Nagra. Oh no,
So how stupid would that have been if I had
to put that out? You know, Like then that's just
because I didn't I didn't know shit. I don't know
shit about filmmaking equipment, right, you know, So I mean
that would be like totally like I would if I
knew that and I read that book, that would like
discount everything else that this writer said, you know, like
really like he thinks this person's name is Nagra. What
an idiot? You know, so so like and those those
things happen, and those are human you know. But but
that's where like the beauty of the delay comes in,
because you can catch those things that you weren't certain
about or that you didn't even know was a mistake,
you know, So just keep doing what you're doing, even
takes another ten years, twenty years.
Speaker 3: Whatever, it'll definitely take that long.
Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you, and I'll be I'll be the
first one to buy it.
Speaker 3: Well, I appreciate it. Well, I don't necessarily have the time.
People are dying left or right. That's the thing. I
need to get more primary sources. But you know that
you get the work continues. That's what I always say,
The work continues.
Speaker 2: Well, speaking of creators, we haven't even really talked about
the creator of this movie, have we.
Speaker 3: No, Well, actually, let's just a few things on the
cast before we go bond to the creator. So, yeah,
we talked about Tyler Horn. So I actually did some
red I did want to do some more digging into him.
But Tyler Horn is one of the original San Francisco
Horn stars. He started with like the Mitchell brothers and
is the first he started client, Yeah, the first massage client.
I started with Alex Derenzi, like he started in like
seventy two. I found that he was arrested. He was
part of a major pot bust in Berkeley in nineteen
seventy and then he joined you know, he entered form
after that. But he he kind of shows up in
all kinds of things, Like I remember he played the
US President in Ultra Flash like ten years, like seven
years after this or something in nineteen actually five years
in nineteen eighty. He plays a poetry teacher in Count
the Waste for am Perry We've talked about. He plays
George Washington and Spirit of seventy Sex, which is crazy
and I think that's an ed Haven is Martha Washington,
and that he plays a psychiatrist in The Analyst where
Paul Sharp is trying to convince Candy to Royal to
have anal sex and she hated making that fucking movie.
But the interesting thing I found out about him and
why he might be still reticent to discuss his career,
which as far as I know, he has never done.
Was around nineteen seventy five he started pursuing stand up
comedy and he showed up in Playgirl in June nineteen
seventy seven, where he is described as a stand up comedian.
So that's like a part of his bio says he
a stand up comedian that like a playground correspondent found
and that he did it. Didn't discuss his porn in
the interview, I don't believe, but yeah, it's kind of
like ya'll do nudity because obviously I've done porn. He
continued doing stand up for like twenty years. I'm finding
I'm finding stuff of him doing appearances all of California,
touring all over the country. Tyler Horn as Tyler Horn,
that's his real name. His real name was William Tyler Horn,
but Tyler Horn was you know, basically the name he
used as late as nineteen ninety six he was touring.
Speaker 2: So twenty years, I wonder what is company's like. Did
you ever find like any No, that's a.
Speaker 3: Thing I don't know. But in the in the show notes,
I included to newspaper ads with him in there where
he's making faces and stuff as an impressionist who he
also does impressions too. And then he's also in a
bunch of newspapers with like jokes about current events. So
he's described as a comedian slash comedy writer. And so
I was like, did he write for sitcoms or something?
I found nothing? Was he a script doctor for sitcoms?
I can't find anything. I have found him. He is
still around.
Speaker 2: I need to call him.
Speaker 3: Let me put it this way. There are people that
I think that if he was going to do an interview,
he would have done it with them already. And that's
as vague as I'm going to be without naming who
that person is. He would have done an interview already
if it was going to happen, I believe.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 3: I think it's a situation where he doesn't necessarily want to,
which is too bad because he worked with literally everybody,
So he would have good stories while working in San Francisco.
He would have good stories about working with different directors,
going down to LA for a few things, like, he
would have the good stories. That was kind of the
big name. But then I also you researched David Book.
I forgot that. I knew it David Books, who was
the second massage customer. Yeah, so David Book very omnipresident
in San Francisco porn as well. I forgot that. Paul
Johnson told me what his real name was years ago,
and it's David Peleg. He's an Israeli guy. He was
born in Argentina and then moved to Israel in at
age six, and then he came over. He came over
to the States as part of an Israeli dance troupe
and he was a valley dancer and did Israeli folk
dances and things like that, and then he basically stayed
in the country. He moved out to San Francisco to
study modern and modern and experimental dance in San Francisco,
and from there that he joined the adult industry and
did porn. The trail kind of ends there. And it's
also confusing because there is a politician who was like
is who was an Israeli console who would show up
at like the United Nations and stuff in the States.
Nay also named David Pelick, So any search for him
will come up with this Israeli politicians.
Speaker 1: The worst when there's duplicate names.
Speaker 3: Exactly, and I'm like, this name can't be that common,
but turns out it is, and the other person is
also very public, so it's just kind of like So
I found some good articles with him, showing him dancing
with his dance troupe and discussing his bio and things
like that. He I think most people would know him.
He played the title character in Night Caller, which is
the Anthony Spinelli movie, and in that is a couple
called the Angel and Vernon von Bergdorf. They were a
dancing troupe. They were dancing couple as well, and they
did dance dance things all over San Francisco in California.
So I don't I don't know if they brought him
into porn because of their dance connections, potentially because they're
also all three of them are in Pleasure Masters for Derenzy,
I believe he played a lot of pedophiles because of
the mustache and the pervinus. So he's in Valerie and
Dixie for Rick Beatty. He's in Fantasy Girls with Claire James,
who we also mentioned. Claire James isn't a ton of
stuff she I think her biggest roless fantasy Girls. She's
one of the main prostitutes in that Dorenzi movie. She's
in a lot of stuff. She's in Journey of O
also with Tyler Horn and Serena and a few other things.
She's very nondescript though, so I was kind of surprised
I even recognize her in this. The only the other
girl that is recognizable from this is Susan. She's built
and I forget the name she uses in the I
think it's Susan Snow is the movie in the name
or the name she uses in this movie. She was
another one who worked for years in San Francisco porn,
but very few leading roles. A lot of character parts
are just showing up in like group scenes or things
like that. She has a connection to this movie through
her first movie that she did, which was Lucifer's Women.
So Lucifer's Women was for Paul Arato. Paul Aratto made
Bizarre Devices with Spinello. So after Bizarre Devices, Spinello did
this while Arato made Lucifer's Women, which then now Adams
started to too. Doctor Dracula. Spinello did both of those.
They worked on it together, and then Arato sold Bizarre
Devices to Elman Enterprises. Yes, that's why Harry Nova couldn't
get the Bizarre Devices because it was already sold to
Richard Ellman, which means that there is no negative to that,
by the way, unfortunately, because Elman got rid of all
of his stuff.
Speaker 2: So you're talking about Susan. She plays the mistress, that's
what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: Yes, and she based on the credits of Lucifer's Women.
She's built as Susan Catherine in that, so I believe
that is at least her first her real first name
in her real middle name are Susan Catherine, but she
used fake names on everything else. I don't know what
her real identity is. But she's really only memorable in
two movies, which is Lollipop Palace, which was David Helen
Arthur and she hasn't seen with John Holmes in that.
And then she's also in a really good movie called
Night Pleasures, which Henning Schellerup did, but people know him.
He did like Black Alley Casts and some other stuff
for Dan Katie women and m.
Speaker 2: Stuff or is that just something she did here.
Speaker 3: It's something she did here. Yeah, No, she was not
an ESNM person she was literally just a body to
call to come and do sex scenes or nudity.
Speaker 4: She was.
Speaker 3: She was a yeah, she's yeah, there's a reason why.
Like she she appears in all these credits as like
with names that mean nothing, like she's just she's a
go getter in San Francisco porn who just kind of
shows up and does the work and leaves. You want
to hear the story about mistage father, AND's something that
happened to me personally.
Speaker 4: So I'm telling you firsthand. Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3: I was looking through one of these underground newspapers, you know,
through the advertising.
Speaker 4: Section and listening. Okay, you're still there, all right.
Speaker 3: So I come across this pad, right, says Mistress Mavis
with the star my pleasure. Dominant is my game, and
bondage is the name dominant, give it right? So I
call this numbers seeing this broad answers and I say that, hey, honey,
what is this dominant massage? You know what she says
to me? There are listening, Yeah, listen, all right?
Speaker 4: Are you that?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 4: She said, come on down data and I kick your ass.
Speaker 2: So I went.
Speaker 3: But it's interesting that all these people eventually they're all
they all kind of earned movies together because it's all
that same group within like within like a period of
like twelve months, where they're the go to people in
San Francisco for every filmmaker working in San Francisco. They're
just available and they're you know, they're gonna be they're
gonna show up, they're gonna do the work, and they're gonna.
Speaker 2: Leave except for market and that's.
Speaker 5: Up.
Speaker 1: I want to know who it is.
Speaker 3: At first I thought that was Tony Scott. It is
not Tony Scott. I thought it was maybe Tony Scott
who was by Coastal. She was in Passenge of Carolin,
New York, but a lot of San Francisco stuff. But yeah,
it's not her, And I love to know who that
is because she's quite amusing.
Speaker 2: The receptionist teger. Yeah, yeah, she's very.
Speaker 3: She doesn't do nudity, so I assume she might know
like a real actress who just answered a call and
you in the uc A casting call and UC Berkeley,
like like Barry said, he put out.
Speaker 1: And I think her character in the movie mostly just
talks Spanish, probably like you know, complaining of complaining about
about Serena's character or whatever. So most of her stuff
is right, is not even you know, I don't know Spanish,
so I don't even know what she's talking about. But
I'm sure it's not good.
Speaker 4: You know, right?
Speaker 3: Well, you know something I wondered about this, and maybe
Barry can answer this if you talk to Barry again,
is was the actress he originally cast? Couldn't he have
just put her in any one of these other roles?
So I'm wondering if one of these good questions is
one of the women that he Maybe it's Martha del Rio, possibly,
maybe it's Brandy Saunders. I don't know, but yeah, i'd
like to know that, just because it makes sense. If
you like this girl enough and she're reading lines with
her and you like her, just keep her on and
cast her in another word, right, right? So I'm wondering
if that's the case and he just didn't mention.
Speaker 2: Or I mean, yeah, I can't see her being you know,
big shot in him and saying, well, if I'm at
the lead, I don't want any part. I don't see
that happening in this industry.
Speaker 3: Probably not. I mean, the pay would be less because
obviously Serena is in every scene, so the pay would
be more, but I think she would still probably still
want to do it, I would think. And she's comfortable
with nunity obviously because she was going to play the
lead in this. So yeah, I just I wonder that's
that's my big question that I have for Barry after
her conversation with you, because he answered everything else I
wanted to know, I think, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if if they were talking about Marcia del Rio,
she's on the phone with Barry at about the nine
minute march. Yeah, he's the bearded guy. I sent him
a screenshot of that and he was just like, it's
very amusing to see myself with a beard from so
long ago, over fifty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I'm glad you called him. Gentry.
I gotta tell you, I'm really proud of you. I'm
really proud of you. This is this is Yeah, I was.
I'm very impressed because I was just like, Gentry will
reach out to him and he'll see what happens. And
then no, you really did like major reconnaissance, So like, yeah, no,
I was. I was wildly impressed and proud. You continue
to make you proud, sir. Yeah, thank you well, Barry's also.
You know, sometimes you get a hold of those people
that are still wanting to be known, they still want
their story out there. Sometimes that's not the case Barry is,
and you happen to you.
Speaker 2: Yes, I have had that happen to me. But Barry, Yeah,
he's eighty five years old, but he's still working, he's
trying to do stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, he has that, he has that YouTube channel yep, and.
Speaker 3: Some of those.
Speaker 1: I was watching his tripping short. I don't remember what
he was if he had like a name for his
technique or whatever, but he was like painting on film
or whatever it was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I was kind of fascinated by those because it was, uh,
they obviously were made in the mid seventies. It looked
like and it looked like he's just taking blank film
and he's painting everything on each frame and it's either
scratching or painting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So and so that was what was what was really
intriguing to me, is because you know, obviously the audio
track is off to the side, it's not the main
the main image, so whatever he's because the audio matches
the the image on screen, So that means that he's
not only is he you know, for those who don't
know what we're talking about, just let's say you have
a black image and you've taken a toothpick and you've
scratched out a design in that in that frame with
what whatever that image is now, whether it be a
squiggly line or some x's or crosses or whatnot. And
so he has to do that on every single one
of those frames. There's no duplicating anything. So he he
has to basically animate that that film, but for the
audio to match the lines that he scraped scratching in there,
he's going to do that in the the side of
the frame as well, to scratch the audio, you know,
in blips. Yeah, yeah, to make to make it match
what's on the screen. So it's almost like you're looking
at the sound strip being animated, but that's not what this.
That's not the sound strip. The soundstrap is strip is
not visible to you, right, So, and it was it
was intriguing to me, and I wonder if like kind
of the first thing that I thought about was the
residence the group the residents that were from the Bay
They were from the Bay area and I and I
kind of thought like this could be like part of
this could be a residence song, like you know they
like they have an album. I think it's called the
Commercial Album that the Residents did, and it was forty
songs and every one of them was a minute long
and they were all these little weird, weird soundscapes and
things with like some lyrics and and everything the Residents
have ever done is an art piece. So it reminded
me of that, thinking like this could be like.
Speaker 2: I think it's all the same scene and all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and art was just the song, you know, like it,
and and to think about that, like I think one
of them was fifteen minutes long. I mean that's a lot.
That's a lot of frames, yeah, to do manually, and
how long did that end to color? Like there's some
of them had to be flashes of color, so he's
coloring these all in. Like how meticulous that is, even
as it's most simplistic because he's using simplistic designs, it's
not super elaborate, but it is elaborate when you when
you understand how it had to be created. So that
whole process that he was trying to do is very
curious to me and very intriguing and highly interesting even
every day. Yeah, yeah, and well and also even to
think like you know that like could be like you know,
a throbbing gristle song or something something odd.
Speaker 2: Like, because it does have a beat in a rhythm. Yeah,
when you watch these shorts that Berry made, yeah, it's
he's created a little song for sure.
Speaker 1: So I just I thought that, yeah, really really interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is if you suffer from like, you know, epilepsy,
I probably wouldn't watch it, but.
Speaker 1: Or are annoyed by harsh sounds. You know, he repeated
harsh sounds, but really interesting stuff.
Speaker 2: But that was kind of his thing. It sounds like
for a while there was doing these hand drawn sound
and picture pieces and you know I found evidence. Yeah,
he was teaching. He would have classes. You could go
to his classes and make your own little version of
a Barry spinella. I don't know if he ever came
up with like a term for how he described these
these little movies, but yeah, that was his thing out
in Berkeley. Abstract films. Yeah, I mean I've sat he
had films playing with Stan Brackage. Like that's the kind
of company, sense, that's the kind of company he was keeping.
He was a he was kind of a mover and
shaker in this in this world. But as we've seen
with some of these other sexploitation filmmakers that maybe came
from a more avant garde background, Like the line between
sex film and art film, especially in San Francisco, was
got pretty thin, you know, that line at a certain point.
Speaker 3: Well, that art scene really probably because there's something because
it's all it's all counterculture. It's all very like, it's
all very against what the mainstream culture is. It's like
developing our own culture. So even like the Mitchell Brothers
and Derenzy and the Pickets, like they would have like
minds and dance troops and like local rock bands and
artists and stuff like that in their films because their
worlds collided. That was just part of the culture. So
it makes sense that he would eventually do like Bizarre
Devices and in this film. It's just it's just so
interesting that it was like considerably. It was several years
after keep been doing the experiment and stuff for several
years until he kind of made that transition and then
transitioned back and did documentaries and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I asked Barry about that as well.
I was just like, you know, going into making. I
asked them, I'm like, can I call these sex films?
And he's like, yeah, that's yeah, that's fine. I was like,
so making yeah, you know, he made a pair of them.
I think we can call both of those sex films
bizarre devices and this. I was like, did you bring
any of that avant garde experimental background, you know, into
making these? And he was just like, no, they were
just projects for money, something I did, Yeah, just something
I did. But you know, I asked them as well,
just like did you have consider using a pseudonym because
you know, you had this, your name was already established
on making these art films. And again he was just like, no,
I'm not. I was never embarrassed about anything I did.
It just it's not something that I necessarily want to
market myself as making, having had made. Now because he's
trying to do different things, so he doesn't talk about
them as much, but he's definitely not embarrassed about them
in any way.
Speaker 1: Well, didn't didn't one of his documentary shorts win an
Academy Award or something like that, Like so I don't,
I don't remember the name. But there's the two that
that you had in the show notes, there's one it's
like a Day in the Life of Carol Bonolo or
something like that.
Speaker 2: Is that what it's called.
Speaker 1: And that's I think that's the one that got that
may have gotten nominated or won the Academy Award about
the woman that was born with Yeah, she was born
with no arms, and.
Speaker 2: Which is up on his YouTube.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so the day in the life in Bonnie Consolo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, and that's that's
really interesting. And then I haven't seen the other one,
but he apparently did another one, like a Day in
the Life of Sharon Thorpe. So he's going, yeah, dying
to see that he's doing a you know, like it's
it's it's kind of like respectful in a way where
it just seems like he's not he doesn't shy away
from from topics, so it isn't like, you know, it
isn't like he's I would I'm assuming that the the
general narrative of the Sharon Thorpe one. Again, haven't seen it,
but I'm assuming that it's it would be a similar
narrative to the one of the woman Born without the arms,
where it's just a fly on the wall. Here's here's
what it is. No judgment, like, you know, this is
just what this person does on a daily basis, and
take it. Take it as it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is. Yeah, I haven't because the yeah,
the the Armless Woman one. Yeah, she narrates it. She's
she's just telling her story.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: From all I've read about the Sharon Thorpe one, it's
the same way Sharon does narrate it. And it's yeah,
it's just I did find a.
Speaker 1: Clip online a couple of days ago of Sharon Thorpe
doing like an interview mm hmm, and it was it
was little. I didn't watch the whole thing. I just
kind of skimmed through it. It was it was lengthy,
but it had like hardcore inserts.
Speaker 3: In it, so that's different. I can tell you what
that is. Yeah, So essentially I think enough people saw this.
There was a guy named Richard Wilton who then proceeded
to make three films that are very similar to that film.
He made a movie called Sharon's Rosebud, which is an
interview with Sharon, but it's a fictionalized interview, and then
he did another one. He did another one where it's
Joan Devlin and Spring Finlay and he interviews both of
them and it's like, well, what it's like being a
porn star blah blah blah, and the proceeds to show
them have sex scenes. So I feel like this, this
this small independent documentary about Sharon Thorpe. Somebody in the
corn business saw specifically this guy and decided, you know what,
I could make a porn like this, and then he
just succeeded to carbon copy it with Sharon and Sharon's
Rosebud came out. It's just kind of like something weird
put that out. So that's what that is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yes.
Speaker 3: And for the longest time I thought it was the
same movie, and then I really oh, and I realized, oh, no,
this is not the same movie because there's no hardcore
in this.
Speaker 1: It's just and that's that's what I kind of figured.
I figured it was it was the film and they
they added something extra to it or possibly was inspired
by the one. Yeah, he had done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sharon's Rosebud is good. But yeah, it's it's very
it's obviously it's obviously staged.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you guys know the status of Sharon
these days, have you heard anything.
Speaker 3: I've been she is one of many researchers white Whales,
because I mean that at the time that that movie
was made, she was really on the cusp of establishing
herself as like one of the industry's best actresses, because
while she was regularly working, she wasn't necessarily doing lead
roles and substantially good movies. So this is before she
was in like Three Am for Gary grab and Baby
Rose Married for John Hayes, and Tapestry of Passion for
Alan Colberg and obviously Sex World for Sam Weston. Those
established her as like one of the most diverse actresses
this industry has ever seen in ever know, And that's
why she was one of the first entrants into I
think the AVN Hall of Fame. But she was one
of the first, I believe. And this is something that
I've run into with a lot of San Francisco actresses
is that it's not that they're embarrassed of it. It's
kind of like Barry, It's not that they're embarrassed about it.
It's just that that was a part of their life
that is passed and there's a mindset of that personality
that thrived in San Francisco, where it's about that was
one part of my life and now I'm in this
part of my life, and so I don't look backwards.
I move forwards and I put all my energy into
what I am now. I'll tell you who is that Claida?
Is that Claida? That's why she has not done interviews.
Cass Paley put me in touch with her, and she
is like that where she's like, you know, I'm not
embarrassed about it. I'm proud that I was the first
woman to direct the first adult movie. Yeah, the first
adult film actress to make the first adult film directed
by an actress. But that was then, and I'm just
I'm not that person anymore. I'm proud of who that
person was, but I'm focused on who I am now.
And I've run into that with multiple other San Francisco actresses,
and I think that's where Sharon Thorpe is, where it's like,
not embarrassed about it. I'm proud of what I did,
but there's no reason for me to look backwards because
I'm where I am now.
Speaker 1: In twenty Yes, they've divorced themselves from it. It's like
asking somebody about their ex wife. So I don't want
to talk about my ex wife. I want to talk
about my current wife, right, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, or like yeah, yeah, it's just kind of like
or I mean, I'm trying to think of another life comparison,
or like there are people who like, for example, someone
was a teacher at one point. Oh you know, another
good example is Barbara Mills. Barbara Mills actress, then she
was an artist, then she was a teacher, then she
did this, and it's like, well, an actress on a
model was a part of my life and then I
stopped doing it and I became an artist, and I
became a teacher, and it's just like, yeah, so I
don't think about that part of my life. So I
think that's where Sharon Thorpe is because I know that
there are people who have been trying. I know Cas
definitely was trying.
Speaker 2: Well, Barry's trying to get in touch with her as well,
because yeah, apparently he still has he has the sixteen
milimeter for this this short film.
Speaker 3: I would say, Barry, if you have that talent release
for him, you don't need her permission.
Speaker 2: Yeah he does, he knows that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more respect thing, get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's get in touch with her out of respect,
I guess so, but I've told him that, you know,
if he if he feels comfortable releasing it, you know
we can we can point him in the right direction.
Speaker 3: So yes, well I guess my question. Well, yes, Mark,
where are you again?
Speaker 2: Where are you located?
Speaker 1: Sacramento?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: California is okay. I can transfer it.
Speaker 3: You guys are in the same state at least, but
it's a giant.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll I'll be in southern California in two weeks,
so I can stop by his house if he's down
there or something.
Speaker 2: So I told him if he needs a helping hand
to go through his materials, we might be able to.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, because he meant didn't He mentioned too that
he might have something on bizarre devices too, yes, which, yeah,
that's pretty major, to which I didn't know until you
put it in the notes at your conversation with him.
I didn't know it was a satire on pornography. And
now I'm like doubly interested in seeing it, because you
don't see satires of pornography in the middle of pornography,
not off that like, it's very rare to be that
self aware yeah, I'm intrigued.
Speaker 2: So I'll yeah, I'll keep talking to Barry and see
what's going on so you can find it. But as
you know, yeah, he's he's got stuff like you have stuff, Mark,
and sometimes it takes time to find it.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: But I do love that he is still still like
I got, I got fires going, I got projects I
want to do like you have. He's got that drive
that Adrian and the toy people. This this script he.
Speaker 2: Wrote that had issues with the Spielberg Company about Yes,
you can read all about it. It's it was a
news item. He's still trying to get that made and
he's gotten some good feelers from people, so we'll see
what happens with that. But yeah, he says that he's
he's gotten great feedback from a few people to get
that made, and we'll see that would be great. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Please do not let it be someone who's gonna use
AI to bring their soldiers to life. Please that I
don't think.
Speaker 2: Fucking berries background. He's very you know, his hand drawn.
Speaker 3: Actually, you're right, because the fact that he was so
he was very on top of the lawsuit about that
and very meticulous about making service. I think he would be.
I think that would probably be part of his agreement
if he was going to move forward, would be like,
you know what, we're not going to do this AI thing,
And that's kind of the agreement.
Speaker 1: And that might be the deal breaker now for companies,
for companies to to you know, jump on board.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that bubble is getting ready, I'm telling right now.
Speaker 1: Company companies may may want the when if they're going
to buy a project, they're gonna want the opportunity to
to to produce it in any way that they deem necessary,
whether it be using AI or or you know, end
the CGI or whatever. So that if he's if he's
adamant on a project and saying like this is a
deal breaker for me, that's likely a deal breaker for
you know, not being able to have that opportunity for
the company.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thanks thanks for the cynical take there, Mark.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's where that's where his I'm going to say,
that's where his integrity comes in.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It needs to be done the right way, not the
you know, and this is the way. This what I
did to determine is the right way is how it's
supposed to be done.
Speaker 3: Right right, And except as someone who I mean, he
made films for years, so he knows how to make
a film, and he also knows the struggles about to
make a film. But I think he would also agree
that as a filmmaker, where each film is always has
its challenges, that he wouldn't. I don't think someone who
works as many years as he did in film would
accept using AI as a solution to any of those
problems and making his films. I don't think because he's
too much of a creative just based on his resume
and based on this film. That's something else that I
have to say about this film. It's like, you know,
we've talked about a lot of expectation movies made by
quote unquote outsiders to the genre, people that are not
part of the industry at all. The Savage Brothers submission,
they came out of nowhere, came from Broadway, and you know,
came from Broadway and children's theater to make this this
tone poem of expectation. And so for him to come
from essentially experimental film and documentary film and make this
expectation movie, it definitely has a different texture to it.
I mean it definitely, it definitely checks all the boxes
of marketability for somebody like Novak. But it's also not
a phoned in weekend wonder that somebody, maybe more with
a more cynical approach to making a sex film would
have where they're trying to pay the bills. It doesn't
seem like someone trying to pay the bills.
Speaker 2: It's also very funny. I think, yes, And I want
to ask Barry more about that, like where did the
humor come from? Is that all from your script? Is
that or was that part of the performers improvising. I'd
like to know.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that the husband, the Tom character is hilarious,
especially when he's he's like trembling in the you know,
in the closet when he's watching this going on, like
he just he just outside of himself. He can't you know,
like what am I seeing? What am I doing? Like
he's and he plays that sort of like you know
that dullared, that dullered male male character that is uh,
you know, kind of opposed to the sex and then
realizes it's a good thing at the end, you know,
like he has his own his his sexual awakening and
he can partake in all the festivities at the end.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's it's very John Tall. Yeah, it's very John Tall,
early early Novak. It's very Midnight Plowboy. It's very you know,
all of all those Pete Perry movies. He even kind
of looks like John Tall with a mustache. Yeah, that
I mean. At that point he moved on to working
with Stu Siegel and Matt Simber behind the scenes. He
wasn't doing movies anymore in front of the camera. But yeah,
it's it's I remember that I rated it very high.
I wouldn't rate it as high as I did, but
I still would rate it pretty high, especially considering that
I think i'd rate it four and a half out
of five. I think I would give it like a
four out of five. I wouldn't. I wouldn't drop that considerably.
I think because gets well made, it's funny. I love
the cast. But also something that is often not discussed
with sex films is are they still erotic? And this
film is still erotic like sexploitation. It can still be
erotic fifty years later. That's fine. I think people kind
of like, well, it's just all sex, Like who cares
about it's it's just all sex or something else too.
Speaker 4: It.
Speaker 3: It's like, if the sex is effectively done and everyone
looks like they're having a blast, that is a success
story for a sex film. That's what you want.
Speaker 1: So it's funny too, because one of the things that
I really noticed is they've bookend the movie with At
the beginning is a hairy butt crack opening in the
opening credits, and the end credits is a flaccid penis.
Speaker 2: Yep, like love it.
Speaker 1: That's what you're putting, you know, first and foremost, and
then at the tail end, but you know what you've
sandwiched in between. Yes, was a lot of fun and enjoyable,
and I mean one hundred thousand percent. Serena is so
fucking adorable in.
Speaker 4: This, you know.
Speaker 3: That was like she is a star.
Speaker 1: Yeah, has she seen this since? I mean, I don't
think so. I don't think so. It's hard to get
her movies and stuff to watch. Right now.
Speaker 2: Just send her like a short clip of the part
where they're like twirling her where she's covered in oil
and they twirl her like up top. Oh my god,
I think that was funny.
Speaker 1: May I'll send her a screenshot or something and see
if she remembers anything else.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't even care if she remembers. I
just think it would be entertaining, like show her that,
like it's just such a fun scene.
Speaker 1: She would probably just laugh and go and roll her
eyes and be like, oh my god, you know what
am I doing? You know that would that would really.
Speaker 3: Be what her reaction was. Well, that was something I
ran into because I've only interviewed Serena once and I
actually feel bad I haven't been in as good touch
with her, just because it was such a good interview
and she really was so sweet and she actually told
me like I really want to get to know you
more and things like that, and I just felt bad
because I was like, who am I to like moather
Serena with conversation or just even trying to be her friend,
Like who am I? But we did that. We did
an interview for Phantasm. I was like, do you want
to see the movie first? And I think she said no,
I kind of remember. Can you just remind me what
I didn't? And I was like, yeah it was these
Australian people. She's like, oh I remember, Yeah, Marvel got
me involved. But that interview was interesting to me because
we talked about the film and other films obviously, but
we talked so much about her art and her trip
to Paris, and the best parts of her trip to
Paris were going to all the museums and seeing all
the art and stuff. And I was like, that's I
was like, write serenas and artists. I completely forgot it.
You know, it's not She's not just this incredible sexual being.
She's an artist.
Speaker 1: That's how she would describe herself, and that and the
sexual part of her her life there is part of
her art.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she's just she's magical and I should reach
back out to her. I feel bad that I haven't
been in touch with her, but yeah, like that's That's
one of my time traits is that once I don't
like to, I try not to bother people like emailing them,
are checking in because I feel like I am being
a bother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then so you also don't want to feel
like you're just using someone for information and then just
absolutely not know.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly right. So, like my my auntie is Georgina Spelvin,
so I still check in with her every once in
a while, and that's my that's my auntie Georgie. Yeah,
but she's yeah, she's yeah, I'm worried about her.
Speaker 1: But but didn't she just turned ninety.
Speaker 3: She did, and she's she can't she really can't hear.
You can't really call her on the phone. But she
still checks emails every once in a while, so I
check out with her.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Paul Johnson just turned ninety, so I'm you know,
he's doing well. He's great, but I am concerned just
because of you know, how old he is. And and
you know, if anybody doesn't recognize the name, Paul Johnson
was a photographer. He created the first single scenario magazine
where it wasn't just a you know, a bunch of
photo shoots randomly inserted. It would be like the first
one was called Opera Night, where it's this couple who
dress up like they're going to the opera, and the
sequence of the photos, Yeah, the sequence of the photos
plays out where they're you know, they've the foreplay and
the sex activity and everything. And and I love him
to death, and he he likely was the one who
created the pov in porn because as a photographer, he
realized that that he was paying the male models to
live out his fantasy. So then he started putting himself
as the model. And that's when when Aunt Peg Juliette
joined up with him and became like his assistant. So
he would direct her and she would help set up
the photo shoots where she would operate the camera while
he was posing in the in the pictures. You know,
you can often tell it's it's an odd scenario where
like I'm so familiar with him, his work and him
that I can recognize his penis in pictures. You know,
it's like I know it. Jamie Gillisons Dick looks like
I know, you know, you know, like you it's it's
an odd thing to admit, not for me, but yeah,
but it's.
Speaker 3: Weird for me to be able to identify tits.
Speaker 1: But Paul, I love him to death.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He he does rock climbing. He has like one of
those rock climbing groups that he like, the indoor rock
climbing that he does, and he goes and he does
that a couple of times a week and and they
you know, I mean, I love I love the guy.
I saw him a couple of weeks ago and got
some stuff from him, and it amazes me what he
still remembers. He gave me a bunch of blow ups
of some photos of his and some magazine covers like
Jay Bird and stuff that he had shot in the sixties,
and he's telling me, like, this guy was a biker
and he worked for you know, he was the head
of this biker group and this thing over here, and
and you know, so sometimes his memory is like spot on,
and it amazes me. And I'll tell you something that
bugs the ship out of me and you're gonna be
upset by it, to case and then used to gentry me.
So I've done well because you may you might be
able to relate. I've interviewed Paul extensively on recordings twice,
and both times I've lost those files like because of
error or just well one guy lost in a hard
drive crash. And then and then I went back and
I did another one, and it was like three times
longer than the first one because I'd already established some
story with him from the first time we talked, so
then I already had, you know, a solid base to
really question things. And we did probably like a four
hour interview, and then I don't know what happened to
the file, like it was there. I'm not you know,
I copied it from the SD card into the computer,
but it's gone, and it's just kind of like I
don't know if I want to bother him again with
God with that, but like it was like this, you know,
the story of his life, like you know, from childhood
to you know, current And I did that with.
Speaker 3: Claire Lumiere. Judith Hamilton, which was who was Georgina s
Belvin's lover and she was in Devil Miss Jones and
then she was the lesbian she was in three Am.
She drew out to California with Georgina from New York.
They were lovers for like two or three years and
fascinating woman. She was a lesbian. Georgina was bisexual. And
we talked for like two and a half hours about
the little stuff she remembered about working in film. She
described Harry Raims as the most the most uptight of
all of the early seventies porn stars. Everyone else was
all the other dudes were fine, like getting blown by
dudes or whatever. She said. Harry was wildly uptight, didn't
want to be touched by any dude in org scenes
and stuff like that, and everyone else she was like
everyone else just did whatever and she talked about being
part of like the gay liboration movement in LA and
the seventies and stuff. And then once we finished the conversation,
and she was notoriously tough to nail down too, she
was like, she was like a nomad.
Speaker 2: So she was.
Speaker 3: She lived in a she including the trailer. She finally
found a space where she had some like a reception,
so I was able to talk to her on the phone.
I hung up the phone with her, I realized I
plug in my recorder to the wrong jack in my
so recorded absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing. I think you. Never
never spoke to her again except by an email, and
then she passed away. Oh man, so it's all gone,
all of the all clearly near story everything she talks.
I mean, she told me a lot of really very
personal stuff that I won't repeat here. But she had
a very difficult life, and Georgina put me in touch
with her. She's like, no, she probably talked to you. Yeah,
if you know if and she said, and your day,
that will help. I was like, okay, great, yeah, because
it's one family member to another. So yeah, I you're
lucky that Paul is still here. Though I would absolutely
say try again. I would absolutely say try again.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean he still has all of his
archive of his of his negatives and his film. Uh
he I've kind of upset he sold off one of
his Hassle Blad cameras recently.
Speaker 3: I wanted to buy.
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy one just because of you know,
how much how much he had shot.
Speaker 2: You know, with those and and you know and in
display piece.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, and he worked he worked with
with everybody and basically everybody in the industry at that time.
And and and his his material is once you know
what to look for, you can recognize it. But he's
never credited in anything. So it's it's I think that
kind of bothers him now, you know where It's like
like he built a legacy, but nobody knows what that
what that legacy is. And uh, you know those those
single scenario. And it's interesting too because when he laid
out the first one of those, that one that was
called Opera Knight that I did I mentioned earlier, he
took it to a publisher and they were like hell no,
like way too expensive, you know, like because he wanted
it like full color, full glossy, like you know, no
no paper, no like you know, newsprint interiors or any like.
It had to be like a high end publication. And
I forget the name of the guy that he ended
up meeting up with, and he worked for Reuben Sturman,
and so Sterman put up the money for the first one,
and it became so successful that that other people started
coming to Paul for the same type of a magazine.
And he became his own competitor because he was only
one doing it. He was doing like three or four
of these a month, but for multiple for different publishers,
so he wasn't just working for one publisher. When someone
else said saw how successful the first one was, I
want one of those too, like, you know, do one
of those for me. And so he just became his
own little industry of doing those Connoisseurs series and and
some of them are are Ruby collection. And he had
certain lines that were that were coming out and uh,
you know, he did a gay shoot that was in
a magazine. He did a by shoot. He wanted to
try it. That wasn't his preference, you know, but he
he did those and and and and had those and
you know, I've been lucky where he gave me digital
copies of his archives. So I have quite a bit,
you know, thousands of images from the photo shoots, including
like all the unpublished you know shots and and everything,
and the scans of the magazines as well along with
the actual magazines and and uh, he's just a great guy.
And that's one another one of those things, like all
the history that's going to go with him, and you know, yeah,
and and so he he used to get all anytime anybody,
well he also shot because we mentioned Renee Bond, He's
the first person to shoot nude photos of Renee Bond.
Because he was getting all his he was getting all
of his models from Red and so anytime there was somebody, yeah,
would call him and he spoke. He spoke highly of
Red that there was never any issues with with that.
And so he would get, you know, a call, you know,
we got a new a new girl, he would shoot her.
I mean he shot Sekah and Nett Haven, Serena and
Jamie Gillis, uh, Paul Thomas, everybody, like you know, everybody
at some point kind of like came through the Bay
Area or southern California, whether he was living at the time,
and he shot some type of a of a magazine
with them and they're all like super high class, you know,
and it was it's a real, a real difference when
you look at his stuff versus like there's there's a
sensuality to it. It's not just it's not coming off
as you know, it's not a magazine called, you know,
fuckholes or something like that.
Speaker 2: You know, any of any of this stuff up here
maybe on a future release.
Speaker 1: So he he has a couple DVDs that you can
get at ultraflesh archives dot com which are based on
photo shoots, one being Nina Hartley. He was the first
one to shoot nude photos of her, and there's some
interview footage of with Paul and there's also some interview
footage with with Nina and I think Richard Pacheco's on
there as well, and it shows like the photo shoot
and then those little documentaries. And there's another one also
with Juliet Anderson and Peg where there was a photo
shoot where she had twins that were part of her
fan club that came and did a photo shoot with
her and they were they were very close. There's kind
of a famous photo of Juliette in lingerie kind of
standing against like a like a baby blue background, and
that was something that he shot that was actually turned
into like a cardboard standee. That was at the Museum
of Sex and Culture, the one in Vegas whatever it's called,
the Museum of Sex that's in Vegas. So he had
that there for a while, which is cool. If you're
ever in Vegas, make sure you go to the the museum. There.
Speaker 2: Just a job for me, just some massages, sexual not
sexual massages. Okay, well, I'm excited to see. I mean,
I don't even know how you choose your next subject
because for your release, because you have so much materials,
I guess you just look through your spreadsheets, right kind of.
Speaker 1: I mean some of it is just whatever I'm kind
of like finding interest in in the moment. Yeah, you know,
and there's gonna be uh, several different series of things
that I'm doing. So the next release will be Endless
Ecstasy Volume two, which is just like my just general
loop you grab bag yeah yeah, Carrier and those are
all good too.
Speaker 3: Your the your selection on the first one was great
and I love and it started with a solo and
then built I was like, this is this has to
be intentional?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it, and that's that's kind of
how I'm laying out everything, like if uh, you know,
for the uh, unless there's a specific reason, like Leslie Winston,
she had a solo loop that was included on there,
but I wanted to use her very first loop as
the first loop on the same you know. But but
generally speak you know, I try to do a bill
where it's a solo and then maybe like a girl
girl and then you know, boy girl, and then you
go from there and with the endless ecstasy, maybe throw
something weird in there, like the first one had the
long dong silver thing. The volume two is going to
have here comes Superman with Jamie Gillis, where he plays
Superman rescuing this this girl from you know, being attacked.
And so I'm trying to put some some odd little
odd ball things in there as well. And then I'm
going to stay with Rondo Joe Petti here in two
weeks to do to do her commentary for her release,
which is called I'll be able to see Leslie Winston
again because she lives in the same town as as Rona,
so that'll be nice. We're all about to dinner and
and visit. We'll probably can also see Sue Nero because
she'll be down in the area.
Speaker 3: So my Susie, I love my Susie.
Speaker 1: I do have two volumes of Sue Niro coming up
called Tigris again, that's.
Speaker 3: Her her title, that's appropriate for her.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get appropriate time to do a
commentary with her and nail that down at least for
one volume. So you know, there's there's some challenges with
connecting with her. So if it takes a while for
those too, you know, correct themselves so that we do
have the ability to get together. You know, I'm just
gonna be patient and wait until it can be done right,
and not just because people are like I want a
Sue Nero collection, but after so will be endless ecstasy too,
and of course that'll continue. I can do those forever
until I'm dead, uh, the Rono, Joe Petty, and then
after that, I'm gonna be connecting with you a lot, Casey,
because that's gonna be man to man volume one.
Speaker 6: I love it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be the all male, the all male lines,
so the title, so I do have a a color
scheme that everything has as well, so like the star
focused ones, have a specific look and they're all that like, uh,
that kind of like neon pink color. That's like the
trademark Ultra Flesh Archives color. The Endless Ecstasy has like yellow,
and they'll continue like that. Then I may I may
continue to use the same layout for everything, but I
want to everything will be individualized, but it'll all be
similar based on the uh the man to man will
have a specific color. I think after that is probably
going to be I guess all on now, sit here
Bazoombas Volume one, which is my Big Boob Collection.
Speaker 3: So whether there's one thing I would love more than
the Man man, it's the Big Boob Collection because you
know that I'm a boobman. So exciting. Okay, there's more.
Speaker 1: There's more to the Bazoombas series as well, So I
think the first one is going to be all solo
you know, girls just rubbing their boobs and things like that.
At some point it might just be more loops that
are big breasted women. You know, where's full hardcore, you know,
male and female. But Volume one is probably just going
to be all all just solo girls. And then the
thing about the series is I'm going to connect with
Annie sprinkle here before the year's over. And We're not
going to do a commentary, but I'm going to do
interview with her because she's made her breasts of a
large part of her art. You know, she did her
tit prints for a long time, or she would put
her boobs in paint and put them on canvas and
you know, sell them as pieces of art. I got
one hanging in my bedroom. Actually, it's one of the
very last ones that she did that she gifted to me,
and hee's wonderful. I can't speak. It's going to be
part of.
Speaker 3: Something.
Speaker 1: It'll be it'll be included kind of as just an
interview on audio interview with the release, not necessarily commentary,
but just an interview. But we're going to talk about boobs.
We're going to talk about her breast cancer journey and
things of that nature. And the one of the big
things about the series is it's going to be also
informational because I want to highlight breast cancer in women,
in women and men, because men gave breast cancer too.
And each each release of the Bazoomba series, I'm going
to donate five hundred dollars to some type of a
breast Cancer Organization for each one releases wow, so that
that those are coming up. Of course I have some
more star focused ones, uh. Once I kind of probably
get past this the souniro. The likelihood of connecting with
people for commentaries is getting thin because there'll be people
that likely or just have disappeared from everything or are no.
Speaker 3: Longer here, some people that I might be able to
connect you with.
Speaker 1: So we'll see how that goes. Because I have dozens
and dozens of those that have already outlined, but those
will continue whether they have commentaries or not. They will
still be in like the outer Slip Sleeves and that
that series continues, same look and feel with all with
the similar bonus features that go on them. They'll be
Alisa Dulu that that might might be the next star
that hasn't been announced.
Speaker 3: And she will never talk. Fortunately she's another one. She's
gone full maga unfortunately.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But they'll also be U se quts line, which would
be like like strip teas b lesque stuff, black and white.
There'll probably be some kind of a line that's specific. Yeh,
I got I've got like an endless list of stuff
that I'm going to do that I have some specific
some specific releases. It will be just to like certain companies.
Speaker 3: That's great, Yeah, you know absolutely, so they may not.
Speaker 1: I know, you want to see like chronology like you
know one to fifty or whatever that they did.
Speaker 3: Or I mean I like some of those Diamond those
are all like terrific, Like any order you want to
put those in is great.
Speaker 1: So those are good in all honesty, Diamond would be
like way down in the future because like I'm going
to focus on other like smaller lines like oz so
Oz Films is going to have a collection multiple multi
volume collection. I'm doing Satan, the series Satan.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, you know, and we talked about lots
of brown right did I say possibly a loss of
brown one?
Speaker 1: I've got a ton of that stuff that I can
also do great, you know, so that I mean, the
stuff that I could do is essentially endless. It's just
a matter of what time I have and how long
it takes to put them together.
Speaker 2: Probably money probably doesn't hurt either, So everybody exactly, I mean,
I need people to continue to buy, so how I
continue to make this man's hard work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I mean, and he's fun, like the
loops are all good. Like I think people assume that
loops are all like shot there. I think people have
a perception of what loops are, which is that they're
all shot for pennies and like an ugly hotel room
on a bed and there's no art to them. But
like the Serena one opens it with a Ron Rafaeli loop. Yeah,
arguably the greatest creator of loops who has ever lived.
He was an artist. So yeah, like they're they're they're
they have interesting scenarios like yeah, yeah, there's they're not
all shot in the same place. There's like storyline to
some of them there, you know, it's it's there's some
acting in some of them. Like it's a very surprisingly
diverse collection of films that isn't necessarily what you think
it's going to be. It's not all sex, and even
if it was, it's not a big deal. But there
are so many nice surprises if you if you dive
into it thinking, Okay, I'm going to see a lot
of sex, but it's going to be such so many
different interesting versions of sex you maybe didn't even know
where possible in this in in the loop form.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's fun too because you get different looks
that Serena has. You know, you get short hair, you
get younger, you get.
Speaker 3: Older, so you know, as a cat, yeah her dressed
as a cat, you know, like covered in chocolate. Yeah yeah,
like lindsay shockingly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean I hope, I hope people enjoy these things.
You know, of course I need sales to continue. You
know this it does take a lot. I'm having to
go get storage now to to store my stuff. You know,
data storage is expensive. Uh so, like you know, the
more I do, the more data storage I need. You know,
these are a lot of things that no one ever
considers or thinks about when they're you know, talking about
what it takes to you know, archive and and and
save these materials. Not only just saving the physical you're
saving the data. You have to have backups of the data.
You got to have the space for it to exist in.
You know, there's so many things that that go that
go into this, you know, I mean the house is
overloaded with stuff. You know, Luckily I have a supportive
wife who's usually like, you need to quit fucking around
and go get to work to make this stuff happen. So,
I mean, I appreciate your guys' support and help them
to promote. I don't really have many outlets to promote
on you know, about to get kicked off of Facebook?
Oh my god, you know, like they threatened me every
single day. Although ironically I took a screenshot of an ad.
You know, you can't, you can't communicate with anybody on Facebook.
Speaker 3: I wanted to.
Speaker 1: I wanted. I wanted to be the email them I got,
you know, scrolling through in an ad popped up of
a full on, full nude woman touching yourself as a
Spon sponsored ad. But yet, God, but yet, I've had
things like that, I've reposted from five years ago get
flagged all of a sudden, and you know, they they
send me the you know you're about to get kicked off,
you know, threat all the time. And so I mean,
I don't have anywhere to really promote myself other than
like you know, a little bit here and there on
social media. So I really I really have to rely
on that uh that grassroots, you know, word of mouth
and and hopefully you know, and I'll say that when
I was packing up all the orders for Effervescent, probably
ninety five percent of them we're all from people that
have already ordered for me, So thank you. Everybody's who's
continuing to support, and that's that's proof positive that I'm
you know, kind of developing like a core you know,
core crowd here. Of course I need that crowd to expand,
But everybody who's been supporting, you know, and and and
helping to champion this, and like you said, you know,
it's it's these don't look like blue vanity releases, you know,
like this, it's no and it's an uphill battle to
just convince people that these these don't look like what
you think they look like. You know, you think they
look like crap. They don't. They you know, we can
make them look good. And you know there's limits, of course,
but you know it's it's night and day. From from
what what's been out there before.
Speaker 3: There seems to be some I don't know. This is
something that I've also seen in comment sections. It's like
who wants to clean up for? And I think they
think because that it's dirty because of the society we're
living where sex is dirty. They're like, well, these shouldn't
look clean. What's the what's the point of cleaning these up?
And it's like, well, get rid of your You know,
you got a lot of work. You have a lot
to work on. Where do you think sex is dirty
and should always look dirty?
Speaker 2: Because they want to make these performers look as best
as possible.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's you want to amplify these and that's
that's what we're about. Even the software we are were
about amplifying the women.
Speaker 1: I distinctly heard slurping noises.
Speaker 2: What is it? Must know?
Speaker 5: Cose troll?
Speaker 2: Me a wry we're having one?
Speaker 1: Still having a malted.
Speaker 4: I have a suspicious streak.
Speaker 3: O back, Thanks, I will where was I?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to hear more shows from the
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