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<v Speaker 1>He was a beer maker, a restaurant tour, a mayor,

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<v Speaker 1>a governor, and now he is the senator from Colorado,

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<v Speaker 1>at least one of the two.

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<v Speaker 2>John Hickenlooper, Welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>To the program.

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<v Speaker 2>Glad to be with you. We just had a.

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<v Speaker 1>Wonderful conversation that I wish had been on the radio

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<v Speaker 1>about about conventions and what is expected to be happening here.

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<v Speaker 1>And you've spoken at a convention before. How many conventions

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<v Speaker 1>have you been to?

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<v Speaker 2>So I never went to a convention until I had

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<v Speaker 2>that reckless idea I was going to run for mayor

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<v Speaker 2>of Denver in two thousand and three, so I did.

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<v Speaker 2>I obviously went two thousand and four to Boston, and

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<v Speaker 2>then two thousand and eight when we hosted the Obama

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<v Speaker 2>convention in Denver, which I mean, this convention has got

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of excitement. It might even be as much

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<v Speaker 2>excitement as Obama had. But that was a wild time

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<v Speaker 2>for the city of Dever.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this election is a wild time for Democrats. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it's been I've said multiple times on the show recently.

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<v Speaker 1>I used to say anything can happen in politics, and

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<v Speaker 1>then this last.

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<v Speaker 2>Summer has happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So now it really means anything can happen. Quoted as

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<v Speaker 1>as talking about the former or the current president, excuse

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<v Speaker 1>me for more, candidate Joe Biden making a decision. Were

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<v Speaker 1>you part of that process or were you around that process?

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<v Speaker 2>And how what do you know about that? So I

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't involved in the process. I did make comments that

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<v Speaker 2>I had known Joe Biden from when I first ran

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<v Speaker 2>for mayor. He was in the Senate and I met

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<v Speaker 2>him a couple of times. He gave me some advice

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<v Speaker 2>when I was thinking about running for governor. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll come out, I'll help you. I'll come out and

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<v Speaker 2>campaign for you if that's best. I'll campaign against you

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<v Speaker 2>if that helps you more. Right. He was his true

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Biden's self. My point was when I when I

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<v Speaker 2>made comments that Joe Biden has always done what he

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<v Speaker 2>thought was best for the country. Who was never one

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<v Speaker 2>of these people that talked about me, me me I,

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<v Speaker 2>I he always put his his country before his ambition,

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<v Speaker 2>and that we should I kept saying, we should trust him,

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<v Speaker 2>we should give him time, we should let him make

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<v Speaker 2>this decision because he will do what's right. And he

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<v Speaker 2>you know, if you look at what we got done

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty one and twenty twenty two with Infrastructure Bill,

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<v Speaker 2>the Chips plus Science Act, I mean, all those things,

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<v Speaker 2>the Inflation Reduction Act. We got more investment into the

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<v Speaker 2>building blocks for a strong economy than we've done in

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<v Speaker 2>the previous thirty years. And Joe Biden gets a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of credit for that. So he was going to go

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<v Speaker 2>down as a great president. But he was you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there were so many people, so many of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we were getting three thousand calls in those previous three

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<v Speaker 2>weeks at our call centers and emails around Denver and

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<v Speaker 2>around all of Colorado, and they were ninety two percent

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<v Speaker 2>saying that he shouldn't run.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the switch to Kamala Harris as the candidate has

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<v Speaker 1>certainly energized Democrats. I mean the energy here at the

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<v Speaker 1>DNC is palpable. I mean, people are excited. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to be honest the speed with which the party

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<v Speaker 1>has immediately not just to support Kamala Harris, but enthusiastically

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<v Speaker 1>support Kamala Harris. So let's be clear about that. This

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<v Speaker 1>isn't like, oh, this is our candidate.

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<v Speaker 2>Now. People are stoked. Yeah, were you surprised by that

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<v Speaker 2>at all? I was surprised a little bit. But I

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in my brief campaign for president back in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty, as I tell my wife Robin, I did

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<v Speaker 2>get to two percent in the polls.

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<v Speaker 1>That's two percent more than I have.

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<v Speaker 2>You go, well, you're just getting started. You're just getting started.

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<v Speaker 2>But I you know, Kamala Harris has a an energy.

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<v Speaker 2>She's she's just really electric when she's on her game.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, when she's one of twenty two candidates

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<v Speaker 2>running for president twenty twenty, that was not her element, right,

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<v Speaker 2>It didn't really show her off to her strength.

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to ask you about that because that

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<v Speaker 1>was a big field and she didn't have any support.

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<v Speaker 2>So what do you think.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it just because people are aware that she's part

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<v Speaker 1>of the Biden administration and are more aware of her

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<v Speaker 1>now than they were back then.

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<v Speaker 2>That's part of it, for sure. She's the vice president

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<v Speaker 2>United States and so they're paying more attention. But she's

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<v Speaker 2>also grown in these last four years. She's traveled all

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<v Speaker 2>over the world. She's met with the smartest scientists, she's

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<v Speaker 2>met with the top government leaders from around the world,

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<v Speaker 2>and she's been in substantive negotiations around all manner of issues.

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<v Speaker 2>So she's grown, I think, dramatically as a person, but

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<v Speaker 2>that energy is still there and hearing her stories of

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<v Speaker 2>her childhood, I mean, she didn't get any breaks from

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<v Speaker 2>her family. Her mother was a determined to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>her kids got an education right. That was the building

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<v Speaker 2>block of their lives. And obviously Kamal Harris has taken

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<v Speaker 2>advantage of that in a way that you know, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>she's got a really good chance of being the next

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<v Speaker 2>president of the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been asking as many people as I can. I

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<v Speaker 1>wish I had more policy positions officially to ask about,

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<v Speaker 1>but she unrolled some economic policy positions last Friday. What

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<v Speaker 1>are your thoughts on what she's already said.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I support this notion that we've got to build

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<v Speaker 2>the economy for the middle class, where working people for

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<v Speaker 2>decades have been slipping behind. When you put it in inflation,

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<v Speaker 2>going back all the way to nineteen eighty, the percentage

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<v Speaker 2>of this country that is in the middle class has shrunk.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are a lot of arguments about why that

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<v Speaker 2>is and how to improve that. But I think what

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<v Speaker 2>she's talking about, where we're trying to get people back

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<v Speaker 2>to work in places where you know, manufacturing like the

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<v Speaker 2>auto industry places. But you know, Joe Biden made that

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<v Speaker 2>a commitment that he was going to address manufacturing in America,

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<v Speaker 2>and we passed those bills. So all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>we're building infrastructure, We're building bridges and roads, we're building factories,

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<v Speaker 2>we're back in the chip business. These are the kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of changes that help the middle class. These are middle

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<v Speaker 2>class jobs when you have to build stuff, when you're

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<v Speaker 2>building infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>That message, I think is one that's going to resonate

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<v Speaker 1>because people I have noticed a shift in messaging from

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<v Speaker 1>the Biden campaigns saying look at the numbers, the economies

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<v Speaker 1>are great, the economy is great. That obviously didn't resonate

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<v Speaker 1>with the people that you're talking about, people who are

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<v Speaker 1>paying higher prices at the grocery store. So there definitely

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<v Speaker 1>has been a shift at this convention in that messaging.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and change is slow, but the bottom of everything

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<v Speaker 2>is And this is when I ran for mayor and

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan ran for governor. I was the first thing I

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<v Speaker 2>always talked about was the economy. How do you how

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<v Speaker 2>can you build an economy that's going to grow and

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<v Speaker 2>as it grows more people do better. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>that's the challenge for any state. I mean, even Colorado.

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<v Speaker 2>We've done great. I mean, I think Governor Poles has

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<v Speaker 2>done a great job of keeping that tech growth and

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<v Speaker 2>yet the same time encouraging advanced manufacturing. We have a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of aerospace. All that stuff has to kind of

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<v Speaker 2>reinforce each other. But you got to make sure the

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<v Speaker 2>working people are participating in that success. And as Colorado

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<v Speaker 2>has done that, it hasn't happened everywhere in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think that's something that Kamala Harris. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>when you look at her and hear what she's saying,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what she's talking about this whole when she talked

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<v Speaker 2>to the autoworkers and talked about the importance of freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>Freedom to be able to love who you want, freedom

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to afford, not to have if you

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<v Speaker 2>lose your job for three months, you lose your housing,

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<v Speaker 2>not to be you know, freedom for fear of losing

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<v Speaker 2>your housing. All those freedoms are things that come from

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<v Speaker 2>a more financially secure household or a more financially secure person.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Senator, I am a deficit hawk. I have been

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<v Speaker 1>a deficit hawk for the last twenty years as a

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<v Speaker 1>Radio unaware. I've been very disappointed in the Republican Party

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<v Speaker 1>and the Democratic Party when it comes to spending. Yesterday

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<v Speaker 1>Governor Jared Polis said, look, we've got to do something

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<v Speaker 1>about the deficit. I would love it if anyone got

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<v Speaker 1>serious about deficit spending in DC. Is that even a

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<v Speaker 1>conversation that's happening in DC right now or people like

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<v Speaker 1>me just going to sit out here in panic and

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<v Speaker 1>wait for the sky to fall.

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<v Speaker 2>No. I I had a meeting right before lunch on

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<v Speaker 2>exactly that and looking at some of the big issues

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<v Speaker 2>that are affecting that deficit. But you know, taking a

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<v Speaker 2>hard look at no one side, not the Republican side,

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<v Speaker 2>not the Democrats side, is going to have the answer.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's going to be a compromise. No one's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be happy with the solution. But the first step

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<v Speaker 2>is to recognize, as you say, we've got a deathit

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<v Speaker 2>problem is you look at the percentage of GDP. We're

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<v Speaker 2>over one hundred percent of GDP.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, no nation thrives with that kind of skewed GDP

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<v Speaker 1>to debt ration, and.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes us weaker. And it's not just weaker in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of our money for education or for healthcare, but

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<v Speaker 2>for the economy, for reinvesting economy, and for our defense.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we need to be investing in infrastructure, and

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<v Speaker 2>we can't just be borrowing it and say we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to pay down the road. We need to make those investments,

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<v Speaker 2>but we have to all chip in together to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that happens in a way that we can afford it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, if you want me to come to one of

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<v Speaker 1>these meetings and do a whole presentation on the fall

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<v Speaker 1>of the Roman Empire because of hyper inflation, because of overspending,

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<v Speaker 1>I'd be happy and just put me in coach.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm ready, I can do it.

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<v Speaker 1>What are you looking forward to tonight from the speakers?

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<v Speaker 1>We've got Pete Bodhaje Edge, We've got Bill Clinton. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Walls is going to accept the nomination for Vice

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<v Speaker 1>president tonight. What are you looking for out of tonight's speeches.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so I haven't gotten a chance to spend time

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<v Speaker 2>with Tim Walls yet because I wasn't in the house

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<v Speaker 2>when he was in the House office ever been in

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<v Speaker 2>the House. And I'm looking forward to seeing firsthand on

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<v Speaker 2>a real you know, national landscape on a big screen,

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<v Speaker 2>see what he's about I also, I mean Pete Bodhajedge.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, one of the reasons I only got to

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<v Speaker 2>two percent when I was right for president was he

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<v Speaker 2>came in and he is so adept at explaining complex issues,

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<v Speaker 2>especially economic issues, in a way that's you're at the

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<v Speaker 2>kitchen table accessible accessible, which you know Bill Clinton was

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<v Speaker 2>very good with that as well. And I can't wait

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<v Speaker 2>to see Buddha Jedge talking and then here Clinton talking.

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<v Speaker 2>And obviously Bill Clinton's not, you know, forty five years

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<v Speaker 2>old or fifty years old anymore, He's not going to

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<v Speaker 2>be maybe quite as sharp as he was. But I

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<v Speaker 2>talked to Clinton a few months ago and he was

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<v Speaker 2>as sharp as attack. So i'd like to I can't

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<v Speaker 2>wait to see the two of them, see how they

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<v Speaker 2>frame the moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's a good way to look at it. Senator Johnhickenloper,

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate your time. I know you got other stuff

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<v Speaker 1>to do, but thank you so much for stopping by

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<v Speaker 1>today and talking to my listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>No, always pleasure.