Speaker 1: Coming to you from the dining room table at East
Speaker 1: Barbary Lane. Welcome to a very special holiday edition of
Speaker 1: Full Circle the Podcast. Today we have gathered two wonderful
Speaker 1: friends to talk about one of my favorite holiday movies,
Speaker 1: The Family Stone with us. First, she has a two
Speaker 1: time Peabody Award winning children's radio host from Philadelphia, our
Speaker 1: go to media guru on all things media and entertainment,
Speaker 1: and our dear one, Kathy O'Connell. Welcome back back.
Speaker 2: You very happy to be here, Kidscorner dot o org. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's the end of my ad from now on Family Stone.
Speaker 1: Okay. And he is doctor Alfred L. Martin, Junior Chair
Speaker 1: and Associate Professor in the Department of Cinematic Arts at
Speaker 1: the University of Miami, author of The Generic Closet, Black
Speaker 1: Gayness and The Black Cast sitcom, editor of Rolling Blackness
Speaker 1: and Mediated Comedy, and co editor of The Golden Girls
Speaker 1: Essay from the Lunai. He's also the author of Fandom
Speaker 1: for Us by Us, which contains you someone in there,
Speaker 1: You're in it. I am your host, Martha Madrigal, and.
Speaker 3: I'm your host. Charles Tyson Junior and.
Speaker 1: Alfred Welcome to the Full circle table.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely this is we We scheduled this a while
Speaker 1: back because you were the two people on the planet
Speaker 1: we wanted to have this conversation. Yep. I know, Kathy
Speaker 1: and I watched this movie religiously every year at least once,
Speaker 1: if not seven hundred times. So it's it's part of
Speaker 1: our cannon. And you were just saying you're kind of
Speaker 1: caught up with that because it wasn't part originally part
Speaker 1: of yours.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I saw the movie when it initially came out
Speaker 5: in movie theaters and and it was a perfectly fine
Speaker 5: confection of a movie, and and so I didn't necessarily
Speaker 5: feel like there was a reason for it to come back.
Speaker 4: So like, for me, my holiday tradition is.
Speaker 5: That I watch years ago, I found a recording online
Speaker 5: of Donald Bird's The Harlem Nutcracker, and so that like
Speaker 5: that's my holiday trip in terms of media watching, because
Speaker 5: I also cannot stand the sort of quote unquote traditional
Speaker 5: Nutcracker after having danced it for many, many many years.
Speaker 3: Hear the music.
Speaker 5: Exactly, and it's really sad because like the music is
Speaker 5: so good, but it just has so many bad memories
Speaker 5: attached to it.
Speaker 4: But AnyWho, I digress.
Speaker 5: So so I Thanksgiving, I was invited to a friend's
Speaker 5: house and that was where I watched it for what
Speaker 5: must have been my second time watching the film Oka
Speaker 5: and then and and I was like, oh, and I'm
Speaker 5: and I was like, hey, be cause I have to
Speaker 5: watch this for a podcast that I'm doing. And then
Speaker 5: I watched it a third time. And then that was
Speaker 5: when I feel like I really sort of understood the
Speaker 5: movie and could sort of say some things about it.
Speaker 2: I have to know the after it. I have to know.
Speaker 2: At one point there is a piece from The Nutcracker
Speaker 2: that is used in the movie, the.
Speaker 5: Russian the Russian dance, and I got yes, and I
Speaker 5: got hives during that session figured that yes because actually
Speaker 5: because also the Russian dance last trap back was the first,
Speaker 5: the first dance that I ever learned the first time
Speaker 5: I did the Nutcracker.
Speaker 2: Oh you good layers, layers. Yes here. Also, I think
Speaker 2: that is where when they start going into slapstick. That
Speaker 2: is maybe the stupidest moment in this movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, we're going to get there because without without a question,
Speaker 3: because we're sitting here going this doesn't make sense. This
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that one part. Yeah, there will be spoilers
Speaker 1: a plenty. We're going to dissect the whole goddamn movie.
Speaker 5: But also, I mean, also, there is a way that
Speaker 5: we have to start with This entire fucking movie doesn't
Speaker 5: make any sense.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Okay, man, okay, it does, and it doesn't.
Speaker 4: I mean and and so and but and so.
Speaker 5: There's a way that approaching the movie before the credits
Speaker 5: role as this movie makes no sense, then makes the
Speaker 5: whole movie make sense, right, Yes, okay, yes, I.
Speaker 2: Have to keep telling myself people are not real people
Speaker 2: and are not my family.
Speaker 3: Right, we don't know that. We don't know these people.
Speaker 3: We don't know these.
Speaker 1: I feel like I do the type people. You know.
Speaker 4: I don't love them at all.
Speaker 1: Now you don't, which is fine. I mean, they're not
Speaker 1: everyone's cup of day either.
Speaker 2: I had a horrible realization just go round that not
Speaker 2: only do I don't know if I love these people,
Speaker 2: I am these people. Diana is both my mother and me,
Speaker 2: and I believe Sybil is the villain of this whole thing.
Speaker 2: We are set up to believe it's Meredith, but Sybil. Yeah, resistic, narcissistic, mothers. Wow, No,
Speaker 2: wait a.
Speaker 3: Minute, we're going to get there first, before we get
Speaker 3: into the nuts and bolts of this film that arguably
Speaker 3: many of our listeners probably have no idea what the
Speaker 3: fuck we're talking about.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm hoping they go watch it.
Speaker 3: Yes, right, it's on Freeform, it's on Hulu, it's on
Speaker 3: all manner of things.
Speaker 4: I watched it on Prime.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The Family Stone is a film that came
Speaker 3: out in two thousand and five. If you can stand it,
Speaker 3: I know, And it has a star studded cast. Diane Keaton,
Speaker 3: We've got Luke Wilson, We've got Craig t. Nelson, We've got.
Speaker 2: What's that very Jessica Parker?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that one. Notice how I can't remember her name.
Speaker 3: Rachel McAdams, who we Lovemot Dermott, Moulrooney, Dermott, m Verney.
Speaker 1: I do it every time.
Speaker 2: Sorry, body does?
Speaker 4: Oh my wait?
Speaker 5: Can I can I pause for a half a second.
Speaker 5: I had the revelation that, like in the two thousands,
Speaker 5: he really convinced, like he really tried really hard to
Speaker 5: convince us that he was attractive.
Speaker 6: Right, yes, okay, right, like he like he and listen,
Speaker 6: he did a whole college try, and you're like, and
Speaker 6: we were like, and we.
Speaker 4: Were real close, like we were on the edge of believing.
Speaker 2: Georgia rule. Right, Georgia rule.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I fucking love Georgia rule.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the fabulous clar Danes, who doesn't need to convince
Speaker 3: anyone that she's attractive. So this movie was by and
Speaker 3: large considered a commercial success. It had a budget of
Speaker 3: just eighteen million dollars and right and domestically it grows
Speaker 3: sixty point six zero point one million dollars and globally
Speaker 3: ninety two point nine million dollars. It was a hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I never even heard of this fucking thing until one year,
Speaker 3: You Martha put it on and we're like, this is
Speaker 3: my fan of Christmas movie and I'm watching it like
Speaker 3: I've never heard of this before. And then I was like, ooh,
Speaker 3: these white people are messy.
Speaker 1: Then that carries a heavy loot in this show. It
Speaker 1: really does. There's a euphemission Patrick carry it all. They
Speaker 1: are the diversity.
Speaker 2: There one stops shopping.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's gonna be spoilers all up and through this
Speaker 3: bad Boy. So so they are they are what like
Speaker 3: when I was in early early grad school, I wrote
Speaker 3: this this essay that I've never returned to, but.
Speaker 4: I would like I called a compound otherness.
Speaker 5: Yes, where it was just like you you you you
Speaker 5: put the queers in the in the in a show
Speaker 5: and then like and then you just pile like every
Speaker 5: bit of otherness that you want in that like movie
Speaker 5: Pilot on the Gaze. So it's like it's like, we
Speaker 5: got the one person of color who's also gay, we
Speaker 5: got the one person who has a disability in his
Speaker 5: hearing impairment, and it's like Pilot on the Gaze, and
Speaker 5: so that everybody else can be quote unquote normal.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I wrote in my notes when Sad and
Speaker 3: Patrick arrive, look everyone, the diversity has arrived in the movie.
Speaker 4: And listen and listen.
Speaker 5: And they are importantly, they are the first to arrive,
Speaker 5: so that they so that they set the tone for diversity.
Speaker 5: And then we get a parade of cis head, dallless,
Speaker 5: dishwater white people.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: And they are also the smartest ones because they knew
Speaker 3: to get a room at the end and not stay
Speaker 3: in the house.
Speaker 4: That part that.
Speaker 1: Part, and I wondered why that was That bothered me
Speaker 1: a little, because they've been here expectation. Where are they
Speaker 1: just really smart?
Speaker 3: They've met these motherfuckers.
Speaker 2: It's the first time this bothered me this time around.
Speaker 2: Haven't these have Haven't these siblings been out of this
Speaker 2: house for a while? Why are Ben's and Everett and
Speaker 2: Amy's rooms still exactly as they left them? Parents done
Speaker 2: anything since they like it? Just this movie makes no sense.
Speaker 2: These are not real people.
Speaker 1: But see I've seen that, you know, when the house
Speaker 1: is huge and there were a bunch of kids the parents,
Speaker 1: you know, in a large house with money, the parents
Speaker 1: have all the space they need anyway, so that rooms
Speaker 1: are time capsules. I've seen this play out.
Speaker 3: Welcome home, baby, just like you left it.
Speaker 1: Among my people. Amy arrives, what next and we get
Speaker 1: the whole visual there too. You know in the snapshot
Speaker 1: of the old Volva stationwaking that the parents probably handed
Speaker 1: her and the NPR tote bag is bringing her laundry in,
Speaker 1: so you know, we have we get a whole liberal
Speaker 1: vision of her.
Speaker 5: And so the thing I have to say that I
Speaker 5: both love and am infuriated by with this movie is that.
Speaker 4: It is so on the nose, like I mean, and it.
Speaker 5: And one of the things that that Kathy and I
Speaker 5: were talking about a little bit earlier before we started recording.
Speaker 4: Is like part of why this.
Speaker 5: Movie is so good but also so bloody terrible is
Speaker 5: because it is like it is such a paint by
Speaker 5: number script and like it hits all of the beats
Speaker 5: that you're supposed to like that you're supposed to to hit.
Speaker 5: Like within within two seconds of seeing Meredith in that
Speaker 5: department store with that tightly wound bun not a like
Speaker 5: with not a wispy in sight chain to her to
Speaker 5: her cell phone, she we know everything we need to
Speaker 5: know about her. And when Amy is at the other
Speaker 5: sister Amy, when Amy shows up in that station wagon
Speaker 5: and like and spills over the laundry, the laundry like
Speaker 5: and that has the NPR tote bag, we know exactly
Speaker 5: And we simultaneously then know because it's come on the
Speaker 5: heels of us introducing Sarah Jessica Parker, we know we've
Speaker 5: got a conflict.
Speaker 2: Correct, and we are set up to hate Meredith from
Speaker 2: the get gup, and we are more prepared to hate
Speaker 2: Meredith than Everett's family is because she is mean from
Speaker 2: the first moment we see.
Speaker 1: Her, right.
Speaker 3: She's on the phone.
Speaker 2: It's the most honest in the in the in the
Speaker 2: movie when he says, you don't even love.
Speaker 3: Her Mary right right, yeah, but yeah, she's on the phone.
Speaker 3: Tell me, I don't care if it is Christmas. I
Speaker 3: want the five and edited.
Speaker 1: It comes up in the crazy part of the movie.
Speaker 4: But but listen, but let me listen.
Speaker 5: Can we also make space for the fact that she
Speaker 5: is fucking right, I don't give a ship if it's Christmas.
Speaker 4: Yeah, your fucking.
Speaker 5: Job and you do it right, right well, and I
Speaker 5: don't give a single damn about christ This is true.
Speaker 3: You are absolutely correct. I also wrote in my notes
Speaker 3: that she is probably one of those coworkers that her
Speaker 3: fellow co workers have a nasty nickname for, and they
Speaker 3: all in her present.
Speaker 5: She does listen, she like she does, she absolutely does.
Speaker 5: But she is the one who is like U. This
Speaker 5: is not America's next top best friend, right, this is
Speaker 5: America's next top model.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But here's the second. Here's the thing. And I know
Speaker 2: we're going to get to this point because Charles Knight
Speaker 2: gone round about this point about the dinner, and I say,
Speaker 2: anybody who has gotten to Meredith's level in in business
Speaker 2: in the world has become wise enough to fake being
Speaker 2: a normal human being. And yes see they have two
Speaker 2: gay people at your table. Are you're really gonna say normal?
Speaker 2: Are you're really gonna like read the room? Meredith?
Speaker 3: Well, I have said many many times that Meredith gives
Speaker 3: off that this human suit is itchy vibe, like she
Speaker 3: doesn't know how to like have human interactions, She doesn't
Speaker 3: know how to take a compliment, she doesn't know how
Speaker 3: to handle affection, like, yeah, what is her problem?
Speaker 2: None of these people have social skills. Ben, Ben is
Speaker 2: the closest week and he's the fuck up right.
Speaker 3: So when Ben comes home and Sybil says there's no
Speaker 3: smoking pot in the house this time, I mean it,
Speaker 3: which means how many times has that really been broken?
Speaker 3: But then she says, uh, Christmas is not going to
Speaker 3: be clothing optional this year? We have company. My question
Speaker 3: is was it clothing optional for the entire family or
Speaker 3: just for Ben?
Speaker 1: I'm thinking Ben because he's the only one. She felt
Speaker 1: like she had to say it too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe the rest of the family would
Speaker 2: have put pressure on Ben that yeah enough already Ben.
Speaker 2: Nobody needs to see that.
Speaker 3: So they're not newdiced this. Just Ben likes to walk
Speaker 3: around the house, but naked at Christmas time, or in.
Speaker 1: A towel, or you know, just comes down in the box.
Speaker 2: I'd be there for that. Yeah, I'd watch the movie
Speaker 2: a whole lot more if he did.
Speaker 5: Here's the thing is, I would submit that Ben is
Speaker 5: probably the only one in the family who is chill
Speaker 5: enough to be a new list because the fact is is,
Speaker 5: for for as tightly wound as they like to say
Speaker 5: that Meredith is the motherfuckers is tightly wound.
Speaker 7: Too, Yes, yes, significantly, less effort is violent and nobody
Speaker 7: wants to address All of a sudden he goes from
Speaker 7: zero to slamming down on the table, and nobody says,
Speaker 7: what is wrong with you?
Speaker 3: Nourst Yeah he's.
Speaker 2: Still before Yeah, I told you. These are not characters.
Speaker 2: These are real people to me, that's what.
Speaker 5: And listen and listen, And here's the thing is, for
Speaker 5: all of the ways that they like to sort of
Speaker 5: pretend like they're a hippie dippy family, they're actually they're
Speaker 5: a family who doesn't actually talk about issues. They plaster
Speaker 5: that shit over.
Speaker 2: And I've been in public broadcasting long enough to know
Speaker 2: that's exactly who they are. W b Ai, I knew York.
Speaker 3: Well, I always say The Family Stone my favorite Christmas
Speaker 3: movie about a problematic white family, and they're problematic white
Speaker 3: house guests. Yes, that's what this is. I do appreciate though,
Speaker 3: the fact that, you know, because that is hearing impaired.
Speaker 3: They sprinkle asl throughout the dialogue of the film, and
Speaker 3: it's it's kind of like Spanglish. They go in and
Speaker 3: out of it because they don't sign everything they say.
Speaker 3: They just sign like pointed phrases and things.
Speaker 1: Which, yeah, and you know, I've read up some on that.
Speaker 1: I did two things. I read up on that, and
Speaker 1: that is very much how it's pretty accurate in the
Speaker 1: ways that a hearing family does interact.
Speaker 2: Well, I was telling Alfred about this earlier. I watched
Speaker 2: a Q and A with the actors who played the siblings,
Speaker 2: which is how I finally figured out that it's Luke
Speaker 2: Wilson who's in the movie now, and they talked about
Speaker 2: the naturalness and how everybody did get to use because
Speaker 2: tied to You, Donna said, is right around the panel
Speaker 2: with them, and how everyone was very comfortable learning like Christmases,
Speaker 2: except for Craig T. Nelson who couldn't just like gracefully
Speaker 2: get any of them. He had the most trouble with
Speaker 2: the ASL, and they commented on that very thing, how
Speaker 2: very real it was, and how natural everybody in the family.
Speaker 3: His lack of grace actually read to me as someone
Speaker 3: that's just been doing it for so long that it's
Speaker 3: just casual and it's like a household dialect evening. It's like,
Speaker 3: you know, I do this, I mean Christmas, you know
Speaker 3: what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it does ring true that idea of spanglish. But
Speaker 1: I sent the particular clip where, you know, because I
Speaker 1: could not find an answer online, and Grandma signed something
Speaker 1: really very bad. But we never know what that is.
Speaker 1: No one knows, and so I heard speculation. I sent
Speaker 1: the clip to my friend who is an ASL interpreter,
Speaker 1: and she said, honestly, I don't know. I can't see
Speaker 1: enough to tell you what she just said, And that
Speaker 1: was kind of what I heard. So I still don't know.
Speaker 3: The world will never know what Grandma's on.
Speaker 1: You know, I assumed it was go fuck yourself, That's
Speaker 1: what I assumed it was.
Speaker 2: But I assume that's what it was. I just assumed
Speaker 2: that from the beginning.
Speaker 3: Well, whatever it is, it wasn't the first time that
Speaker 3: little girl saw it to point it out.
Speaker 2: Let me talk about that little girl. Can we get
Speaker 2: right to it?
Speaker 1: But you can because that starts right in the hallway with.
Speaker 2: That kid has two D syndrome, you know, daddy, the
Speaker 2: rottenest kid who has ever been in a movie, who's
Speaker 2: in my favorite movie Meet me in Saint Louis, who
Speaker 2: never learns that actions have consequences. And I tell you
Speaker 2: right now, if I had broken the heel on some
Speaker 2: guest shoe right they wouldn't be saying, oh, it's okay,
Speaker 2: it's okay, Elizabeth, or I think we have glue somewhere.
Speaker 2: And the mother is I mean, Susan is my favorite
Speaker 2: of old siblings. She's the only one I could truly stand.
Speaker 2: And she just accepts it.
Speaker 3: Well, we talked about that last night. Susannah is the
Speaker 3: middle child, one of them, one of the middle middle children,
Speaker 3: and so like she has that whole like I'm not
Speaker 3: rocking the boat, I'm not causing waves energy like she
Speaker 3: never really like, so I'm it probably carries over into house.
Speaker 3: She raises that child, it's fine.
Speaker 1: And we got two of those right, yeah, like, well,
Speaker 1: no big deal. And but I keep saying, in the
Speaker 1: child's defense, she asked a question and she was ignored.
Speaker 3: She didn't get an answer, so therefore she didn't have
Speaker 3: permission to touch anyone else's shoes.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, she tried. She tried.
Speaker 3: If I say, can I play with your shoes? And
Speaker 3: I don't get an answer that is not implied, yes,
Speaker 3: that is, leave it alone until you get the answer
Speaker 3: to your question.
Speaker 2: Exactly and obviously upside stranger I've never met, exactly can
Speaker 2: I with your shoes?
Speaker 3: Especially when you said to her, I like your shoes
Speaker 3: and she acted like you spat at her feet because
Speaker 3: she didn't know how to take a fucking compliment. So
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to touch your shoes.
Speaker 2: No, so they did not get a look. I have
Speaker 2: to say, one thing I did learn from that Q
Speaker 2: and A is that Luke Wilson and that little girl
Speaker 2: did not like each other.
Speaker 5: Really, Yes, so I thought, my favorite thing, because I
Speaker 5: don't have children, it's like, is like like adult child
Speaker 5: like rivalries. Like I just fucking love that because like,
Speaker 5: from the adults perspective, it makes no goddamn sense that
Speaker 5: you would hate a kid this much.
Speaker 4: Yes, but like, but like somehow you do.
Speaker 5: My like my child, like the child I hate who
Speaker 5: were no longer a child. But the child I used
Speaker 5: to hate who was moving around in the world was
Speaker 5: Mattie Ziggler from Dance Moms.
Speaker 4: Yes, mom, I used to Oh my god, I hated
Speaker 4: her and she.
Speaker 3: Didn't want to get famous.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she's She was the one who danced with
Speaker 4: Sea for a bit that one. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: But anyway, I love when adults hate children's to do.
Speaker 1: Can they? Oh yeah, you get really you almost you
Speaker 1: get itchy when that happens, Like, why is no one
Speaker 1: disciplining this? Because I remember that I want to watch
Speaker 1: this movie?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, how are you kid? You want to
Speaker 3: see ten?
Speaker 2: Nobody's watching the kitchen and it's like not like they're
Speaker 2: forty seven kids and she's getting bust in the shuffle.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: Watch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's actually the only one who has kids.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's until until Sad and Patrick
Speaker 2: get Gus, who is king of the world. So how
Speaker 2: do you think the other little boy cousin feels here
Speaker 2: in that oh Gus king of the world. Well you
Speaker 2: can't do this to say, man.
Speaker 5: Listen, but they have this and had to make sure
Speaker 5: that the that the other brown person in the cast
Speaker 5: didn't feel left out.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 3: Yes, and we'll get there. So Meredith and Everett they're
Speaker 3: on their way. They're in the car. She's starting the
Speaker 3: throat clearing tick. Yeah, that apparently she does.
Speaker 1: You're going back before they even get there?
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, well because I have a point. So she
Speaker 3: does this throat clearing thing every time she gets nervous,
Speaker 3: and Everett seems to like this because every time she
Speaker 3: starts clearing her throat he gets this little smile at
Speaker 3: the corner of his mouth and he goes, you know,
Speaker 3: everything's gonna be fine. You don't have to worry. It's
Speaker 3: like that's a language that he understands or something. But
Speaker 3: then at the same time, they pull up to the
Speaker 3: house and she stops and she looks up at the
Speaker 3: house and he goes, oh, yeah, they're all looking at you.
Speaker 3: Why would you do that to someone? You allegedly like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he doesn't like her part because also has
Speaker 2: he never noticed how awful she is. She kept you
Speaker 2: from doing the one thing you wanted to do in Japan,
Speaker 2: and now ed you want to marry her with Grandma's ring.
Speaker 4: But listen, but also.
Speaker 5: Like, yes, Meredith is terrible, and also so are you
Speaker 5: and your fucking whole family.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's no good guys.
Speaker 1: Not really.
Speaker 2: Well is close. Ben is close. I'm saying that because
Speaker 2: I'm hot for him.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna get there.
Speaker 5: But like, yeah, see, like I have a difficult time
Speaker 5: absolving Ben only because or principally because this movie is
Speaker 5: so infuriating when you actually sit and watch it, because
Speaker 5: it's like, none of us is the supposed to raise
Speaker 5: a single eyebrow that these siblings just did a fucking sibling.
Speaker 4: Swab, thank you, and like and none of us thank you.
Speaker 4: You're supposed to think that this is like that, this is.
Speaker 2: Weird, This is weird, weird and marrying sisters.
Speaker 3: We're gonna get there, because that's that's an important part
Speaker 3: to bring up. I argue that actually the only one
Speaker 3: who's worth the damn is Thad because he sidized everybody
Speaker 3: the entire time and Patrick, but A he's not related
Speaker 3: to nobody, and B he knows firsthand how terrible they
Speaker 3: are because he had to go through this. In fact,
Speaker 3: I want to see the movie where he had to
Speaker 3: deal with Amy when he was new.
Speaker 2: Well, now, here's a second, and I'm not the saddest.
Speaker 2: Sad is clearly Sybil's favorite, which is like just the
Speaker 2: way she lights up, which he greets him when he
Speaker 2: comes in, Like, clearly this kid is her face. And
Speaker 2: and I have a soft spot for Susannah only because
Speaker 2: we share the same movie and the same point in
Speaker 2: our favorite movie. And you know yourself a merry little Christmas,
Speaker 2: which as you know, is the big saving grace in everything.
Speaker 5: Right, So yeah, I mean, but but I but listen,
Speaker 5: I also think that so there's something I think it
Speaker 5: was really interesting and important for the point that you
Speaker 5: just made, Kathy, that that that is the first kid
Speaker 5: to arrive. And I think that there is a way
Speaker 5: like because I'm not certain that the pecking order of
Speaker 5: children isn't the order like for for Sybil, isn't the
Speaker 5: way that we get introduced to them in the film
Speaker 5: could be?
Speaker 1: But that was first and here is the oldest.
Speaker 5: Right because because well, at the house, I mean arriving
Speaker 5: at the house. Yeah, I mean arriving at the house,
Speaker 5: because I think Tad was least to arrive at the house.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, not Tad Everett is the last.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I mean because I don't even think that, Like,
Speaker 5: I don't think mom. I don't think Mom likes Everett
Speaker 5: all that much.
Speaker 2: No, no, she doesn't. She could not wait to go
Speaker 2: married this awful woman just before she dies.
Speaker 3: To make up to mommy, I wrote she could not
Speaker 3: wait to tell him now about that ring. She couldn't wait.
Speaker 3: She was sitting there. We think she was sitting there
Speaker 3: pondering her face. No, she wasit in there, rocking back
Speaker 3: and forth, waiting for the moment to arrive for her
Speaker 3: to say, no, you ain't getting this ring.
Speaker 1: And she says, And when he's you know, he's like,
Speaker 1: come on, you promise, And she's like, I don't care.
Speaker 1: I don't give a ship and you know, think about
Speaker 1: how I feel, right, I love that?
Speaker 3: So okay, so Everett Meredith. They get to the house.
Speaker 3: Ben gets to the house. Everyone's there. They're all greeting everyone.
Speaker 3: Meredith does not know how to act. She tries to
Speaker 3: shake everyone's hand like they're at a business meeting. She
Speaker 3: gets pulled into a hug and it's like it's painting her.
Speaker 3: She can't take it. And so they're, uh, you know,
Speaker 3: can I try the shoes? Yeah, you have nice shoes.
Speaker 3: I don't know how to take compliments, And then we
Speaker 3: get to she thinks it's wrong. Despite the fact that
Speaker 3: all indications are true that she can be in the
Speaker 3: room with her boyfriend, she thinks it's wrong. So instead
Speaker 3: of being in the bedroom with Everett, she kicks Amy
Speaker 3: out of her fierce attic bedroom right so that she
Speaker 3: can be up there. Yes, Amy, I already don't like her.
Speaker 3: She went in a five minute Dia tried about how
Speaker 3: she can't stand the first time she met her, And
Speaker 3: so they're up there making up the bed to make
Speaker 3: her comfortable. She gets a phone call from her sister.
Speaker 1: And kicks them out of their room.
Speaker 4: Okay, all right, And.
Speaker 5: This is actually one of the ways that I.
Speaker 4: Actually dislike this movie. Okay, because.
Speaker 5: Meredith is not a real person in the sense that well,
Speaker 5: nobody like but I I know, but like, but nobody
Speaker 5: who has achieved that amount of career success doesn't understand
Speaker 5: how to pantomime human interaction.
Speaker 3: This human suit is itchy, right, yes, yes, yes, so my.
Speaker 5: Like but but like, but but like, no person for
Speaker 5: whom the human suit is itchy doesn't know how to
Speaker 5: act like.
Speaker 4: The human suit isn't itchy?
Speaker 5: Yes, right to have reached the because because Meredith is
Speaker 5: a VP, s VP director something right, Yeah, which means
Speaker 5: that she's been in this game long enough to both
Speaker 5: be a ball buster to her to her employees and
Speaker 5: say I don't give a shit about Christmas game my
Speaker 5: ship right, right, and how to shake hands and kiss
Speaker 5: babies with the EVPs who can give her promotions, correct,
Speaker 5: and that and so and so. The act, the notion
Speaker 5: that she can't behave with these horrible humans is kind
Speaker 5: of insulting.
Speaker 1: It is. And that's the first thing that doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense when they ask her one goddamn question and she
Speaker 1: answers it for what seems like an hour and a
Speaker 1: half all night, Yeah, all night, in the car, getting
Speaker 1: the pizza, bringing the pizza back, She's still talking. And
Speaker 1: that level of obtuse. You're exactly right, would not exist
Speaker 1: in a person who had attained that level of success.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: And notice she's only ever comfortable when she's talking about
Speaker 3: herself until and at the same time, we learned, don't
Speaker 3: ask her a question that could be answered with a
Speaker 3: story chill, Oh my god?
Speaker 1: Which right? But which doesn't. It's the first thing I
Speaker 1: think that really truly makes no sense well, because it's that.
Speaker 3: And then later on when she's showing Patrick how to
Speaker 3: make the strata, that's another comfortable moment. But then I
Speaker 3: also think that she is most comfortable around Patrick because
Speaker 3: he's the only one that truly understands her point of
Speaker 3: view because he's been where she is, like the outsider.
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. But then when she behaves
Speaker 2: that way at that dinner, he says, rightfully, I think, boss,
Speaker 2: I think we got hit too tough. So when he
Speaker 2: doesn't understand or he's not willing to understand or cutter
Speaker 2: some slack on any level.
Speaker 3: After that, we'll get to which we'll get to. We're
Speaker 3: going to get to the dinner.
Speaker 1: Damn it.
Speaker 2: Hold on, okay, you know, can I just say the
Speaker 2: one thing I am going to say about the dinner
Speaker 2: and get it out of my system. The Bride War
Speaker 2: Black is a very good movie. Just if you all
Speaker 2: get a chance to see it, it is worth seeing.
Speaker 1: I still don't know the movie. I still have not ever.
Speaker 2: I think it's too funny.
Speaker 4: I thought I thought the title was The Bride War
Speaker 4: African American.
Speaker 3: That's not what they call it in the sound anyway.
Speaker 3: So we're almost there actually, so everyone's been there for
Speaker 3: a while. Now we're playing charades were so we're actually there.
Speaker 2: Which totally normal people do all the time.
Speaker 4: Okay, this is before Okay, okay, it's the way.
Speaker 5: Wait wait, I have to like, I have to come
Speaker 5: back to something that struck me that I was like,
Speaker 5: that's a fucking.
Speaker 4: Weird thing to say.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 5: So Luke Wilson, when he first meets Meredith, goes on
Speaker 5: about how like she reminds him of his second grade teacher.
Speaker 5: It's the book No Lip, and even as it's the
Speaker 5: no Lip thing, it's just like the fact that y'all
Speaker 5: gonna be fucking in like five minutes is weird.
Speaker 1: Okay, but he's a free spirit, don't you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: he says what he's thinking.
Speaker 4: I mean, listen.
Speaker 5: And also like they like and this is again, this
Speaker 5: is this movie is supposed to like, this movie doesn't
Speaker 5: want us to be like, hey, like this brother was
Speaker 5: fucking one sister and then that sister started fucking the
Speaker 5: other brother, so that brother started fucking her sister and
Speaker 5: now we're all like Christmas the next year together and
Speaker 5: like and that's okay, I know, and then this is
Speaker 5: not seven brides or seven brothers.
Speaker 3: Nope, nope, it's two brides for the same two brothers.
Speaker 1: We're still we just finished. Charles is gonna keep doing this.
Speaker 1: He's gonna keep going back to that list in order.
Speaker 1: So where we cleaned up pizza and we're playing charades,
Speaker 1: which I don't think I've ever actually done organically in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 3: Organically no.
Speaker 5: Right, oh no, no, no, wait, no I played No,
Speaker 5: I was played Pictionary.
Speaker 1: Never mind, Well, yeah, I've done that.
Speaker 2: When it's like, hey, I'm saying they don't have cards
Speaker 2: against as someone who finally played her first cards against
Speaker 2: anybody game and it was Golden Girls. But yeah, they
Speaker 2: don't have Pictionary, they don't have Monopoly, they don't have
Speaker 2: they don't have any board games or anything like that. No,
Speaker 2: we have to play charades. So whoa who is the worst?
Speaker 2: I don't care what anybody else says. She is awful.
Speaker 3: It's hard to find a way to make Meredith look
Speaker 3: racist while playing a game of Monopoly, though.
Speaker 1: Right, that's true, it'll only go not impossible.
Speaker 2: No, it's not impossible at all.
Speaker 3: So they the first one we see is Billy don't
Speaker 3: be a hero, which the homosexuals get and by the way.
Speaker 2: I think it's a very and it wasn't that, Meredith,
Speaker 2: And they say it's not a very good clue. I
Speaker 2: think that is a great clue. And they got it, yeah,
Speaker 2: acted out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but apparently it's not something that they would normally
Speaker 3: have in their rotation. That's why they didn't think it
Speaker 3: was okay. So but now we know that Meredith is
Speaker 3: being set up because Amy's like, I've got a perfect
Speaker 3: one for you and digs through the basket and go here.
Speaker 4: That's that's also not how.
Speaker 5: Char works, like you pick one like you just like
Speaker 5: go in and you pick one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, normally right, but the setup and so you know,
Speaker 3: Meredith awkwardly acts out a couple of words and then
Speaker 3: when it gets to the clue black, she says she
Speaker 3: was not pointing at Patrick. But my whole thing is,
Speaker 3: then why was your arm in that posture?
Speaker 2: Because she does this stupid thing with her hand that.
Speaker 3: We never saw her do before.
Speaker 1: Half thinking and interacting is the idea behind it, which
Speaker 1: I think I've seen people do.
Speaker 4: And listen, i think I've seen her do that on
Speaker 4: Sex and the City.
Speaker 1: By the way, right, like like, yeah, you know, you're
Speaker 1: making a point there or.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like like because it's just like this.
Speaker 1: And hold it right, Hold on a second, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: about that. But see for a word like that seemed
Speaker 1: like a natural gesture. But of course Amy is the
Speaker 1: kid who would make that into something, whether it was
Speaker 1: or not right.
Speaker 3: But that would imply that she knew she was going
Speaker 3: to do something like that. Otherwise she wouldn't have handpicked
Speaker 3: that clue, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Maybe because she is we already learned in the beginning
Speaker 1: that Amy has examined this person enough to have the
Speaker 1: throat clearing thing and be an annoyance and mention it
Speaker 1: and so yeah.
Speaker 3: So Amy is basically like batman. You give her enough
Speaker 3: prep time, she can find a way to fuck you
Speaker 3: up in a game of charade six months later.
Speaker 1: And where that comes from bully because she's been bullied.
Speaker 1: She's the youngest child.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, the family spoiled rotten, and that is
Speaker 2: not a child.
Speaker 4: Who was bullied.
Speaker 3: She doesn't come across someone that was bullied and you
Speaker 3: see him her head and okay, bullied.
Speaker 1: They didn't beat her up, but yeah.
Speaker 5: They picked on her as as the baby of a family.
Speaker 5: Amy was not bullied but Amy learned from the bullies
Speaker 5: there you go there and listen, and that's that that
Speaker 5: and that is how she has perfected and and sharpened
Speaker 5: the blade of her knife. So so well, okay, she's
Speaker 5: she's like, she's not like, she's not she's not been bullied,
Speaker 5: because the thing is is like when the chips are down,
Speaker 5: she can't take the bullying.
Speaker 1: Well because she has been All effort had to do
Speaker 1: was say enough out of you, and she backed right
Speaker 1: down and crumbled. And I've been that. I was the youngest.
Speaker 4: That's big, but that's big brother energy. Yeah, I don't think.
Speaker 3: I don't say bully.
Speaker 1: But it's also like, oh.
Speaker 3: No, I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't get that reading.
Speaker 4: Like I think.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 5: I think she's the bully because she was the baby
Speaker 5: and they let her get away with.
Speaker 2: Everything, right, and she still let her get away with everything.
Speaker 2: That was a shitty thing she did to Meredith, and
Speaker 2: nobody's willing really ever, was is one place you could
Speaker 2: actually say, Amy, that's a lot, you know.
Speaker 1: And that would have been the thing to say, should
Speaker 1: have been apologized for. And we don't even touch that
Speaker 1: as something that warrants an apology. We don't we just
Speaker 1: move forward? Right? We move forward in the story, so
Speaker 1: because where I'm going is when Craig tin Nelson starts apologizing.
Speaker 1: But we haven't gotten there yet, oh chaw, so you're like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck are you sorry for?
Speaker 3: Meredith freaks out that she was called a racist, because
Speaker 3: you know, the worst thing is to be called a racist.
Speaker 3: It's more, it's worse than being a racist. Apparently, she
Speaker 3: runs from the room, and Everett is like, basically like,
Speaker 3: what's your problem? Calmed down, she says, she's not a
Speaker 3: completely ridiculous person. I think that's debatable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she actually is at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking about the characters portray right, it is
Speaker 1: completely ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wrote down the line when she's trying
Speaker 3: to like she says that you're already looking at me
Speaker 3: the way they look at me. And she says, I
Speaker 3: don't want you to be a good guy who got
Speaker 3: caught up in something and couldn't find the break. Ding
Speaker 3: ding ding ding ding ding ding. Yes, I think that's
Speaker 3: what this is because on paper, they belong together. There's
Speaker 3: no actual reason for them to not be together except
Speaker 3: he don't really like her because she sees he sees
Speaker 3: her do these things, like he sees her on the phone,
Speaker 3: he sees how she deals with people, but it hasn't
Speaker 3: hit home literally yet, which we're going to see in
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 2: Because he doesn't understand how much of a mama's boy
Speaker 2: he truly is. She is Sybil hm hm. Meredith is
Speaker 2: Sibyl and that's what because why else would he be
Speaker 2: attracted to her. There's nothing attractive about Meredith.
Speaker 1: I think on paper, I think it wasn't on paper thing.
Speaker 5: But yeah, because see listen, I think that like on paper,
Speaker 5: Meredith is actually very attractive in the sense of like, oh,
Speaker 5: you've got this, like this very well accomplished, you know,
Speaker 5: business woman who can who can be like, you know,
Speaker 5: the the great date that I can take to like
Speaker 5: a dinner party with the with the partners, like it all,
Speaker 5: like it all like Meredith makes sense on paper.
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, and ever it's running for mayor of something, right,
Speaker 3: which is anment and close the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's and that's the other thing that we
Speaker 1: see during that charade scene. Everybody keeps pointing up until
Speaker 1: that point at the ties your ties crooked, like because
Speaker 1: we get the impression he doesn't wear a tie.
Speaker 3: That God Damni seems.
Speaker 1: Much more casual. But with her, he's being very more,
Speaker 1: much more formal, which.
Speaker 2: Is making them hate her even more.
Speaker 1: Even more because he's being himself.
Speaker 5: But like, but that, And the thing is, though, is
Speaker 5: in some ways it's like it might not actually be
Speaker 5: her fault that he's this way. This might be him
Speaker 5: like social climbing and making himself into something that he's
Speaker 5: not possible because he wants the social climb, right.
Speaker 3: Or maybe rebelling away from the the lucy goosiness of
Speaker 3: the family's morals or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're rich, lucy goosey. If they were if
Speaker 2: they were like, if this was jd Vance, you know,
Speaker 2: he'll let's not go there.
Speaker 1: That's not good work.
Speaker 3: No, So I think it's are we at the dinner
Speaker 3: now we can be sure? Did she? Did she go
Speaker 3: to the inn before or after the dinner?
Speaker 1: Before?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: Before? Right away?
Speaker 3: Okay? So after? So this moment with the with the
Speaker 3: charades is what sends her over the edge and she
Speaker 3: can't be around the family anymore. She's got to go
Speaker 3: to the inn and call her sister Julie as backup,
Speaker 3: which also makes no goddamn sense.
Speaker 5: So I mean, like all around, like, it makes no
Speaker 5: sense that she would call her. It makes no sense
Speaker 5: that Julie would do.
Speaker 1: It, right that part, drop everything like grow up or leave?
Speaker 3: I love how earlier when when after she kicked everyone
Speaker 3: out of the room to talk to Julie and she
Speaker 3: was talking about how it's awkward, apparently Julie says to
Speaker 3: you being herself, being yourself, and she goes, of course
Speaker 3: I'm being myself, And I'm like, maybe she's saying, the
Speaker 3: problem could be that you're being yourself.
Speaker 1: You tried not except we have the whole one eighty
Speaker 1: right after her. Right, so, well, all we've wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about is a goddamn dinner scene. Now let's talk
Speaker 1: about Wait.
Speaker 5: Wait, I need to pause because like, because Julie also
Speaker 5: has again a a sort of quintessential, we don't need
Speaker 5: to know anything else about her entrance. So like, so
Speaker 5: listen because she like she is, oh my god, what's
Speaker 5: that woman? Uh, she's she's Jennifer. She show shows up
Speaker 5: as Jennifer Lawrence. So the hot girl, like the hot
Speaker 5: clumsy girl, and so like because because of course, like
Speaker 5: of course, like she we get we get the the
Speaker 5: the string music, and the movie star. We get the
Speaker 5: movie star shot, and then we get stumble stumble bam
Speaker 5: and like and and like and so now she's relatable
Speaker 5: mm hmm, and now we want to root.
Speaker 1: For her and everyone loves and she's real and he
Speaker 1: just automatically feels the chemistry when he just looks at her.
Speaker 1: And this is right after now, because he was ring
Speaker 1: shopping with Fad because Mom's not going to give the ring,
Speaker 1: and Fad winds up saying, don't do it. You don't
Speaker 1: love her. That's the first time we hear that is
Speaker 1: in the jewelry store, when Thaddeus is like, don't do
Speaker 1: this thing. And then they go and pick her up,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's like, right.
Speaker 3: And I love how she fell off the bus and
Speaker 3: scraped her little knee and the entire family is fawning
Speaker 3: all over her and giving her peroxide and band aids.
Speaker 3: Had it been Meredith, I wrote, she could have been
Speaker 3: missing a leg and on fire. They might have given
Speaker 3: her a damp.
Speaker 4: They wouldn't have even spin on her to put her out.
Speaker 3: But they everyone working shoe anywhere.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I feel like there's an element
Speaker 1: of or what we're supposed to correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 1: but that we're supposed to derive this idea that if
Speaker 1: you're not real to this family, they'll they'll eat you alive, right,
Speaker 1: Like if they perceive performance, so they perceive that you're
Speaker 1: putting on airs? Is that it? Then they just want
Speaker 1: nothing to do with you because they're so real.
Speaker 2: But listen, but the youngest daughter's cherry and you are
Speaker 2: welcomed on business day.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, she love Ben Sylvil loves Ben Ben
Speaker 3: bread bread bread.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think, like the thing I think is
Speaker 5: also really like fascinating. Part of the reason why this
Speaker 5: family is like that family is just so fucking terrible
Speaker 5: and like is because like it's like they so like
Speaker 5: if we take this notion that they dislike anyone who's
Speaker 5: like putting on airs, but it's like, y'all don't know
Speaker 5: this woman, and how do you know that she's actually
Speaker 5: putting on airs and that this isn't actually how she is,
Speaker 5: right and so like, so who are y'all to determine
Speaker 5: that she's putting on airs? And secondarily, like, if Everett
Speaker 5: actually loves her, don't y'all love him enough to actually
Speaker 5: act like people with some fucking sense.
Speaker 1: No, yep, no, because they have listen's wrong for him.
Speaker 5: Listen, and that's why the second that they actually like
Speaker 5: were mistreating Meredith, me and Meredith would have been out, yes.
Speaker 3: Right right, Which as how you know that he doesn't
Speaker 3: really like her, right, yeah, because he's.
Speaker 5: But also he don't really like himself either, because he
Speaker 5: allows himself true fair to be, to be disrespected by
Speaker 5: his family and quite frankly, to disrespect. Listen, even if
Speaker 5: I don't like Meredith, I bought Meredith here, and y'all
Speaker 5: disrespected somebody I bought here, This is true.
Speaker 3: And he says that you're not wrong.
Speaker 8: Yeah, as they're leaving for the end, he does, but
Speaker 8: he has to be pushed to the edg Yes, right,
Speaker 8: yes he does, and yeah he's not that attractive, okay.
Speaker 1: And then so we make it to this dinner scene.
Speaker 3: Well wait, so, well this is important because Julie comes
Speaker 3: after she's been at the inn and Ben is showing
Speaker 3: his penis to her when he hands her the coffee
Speaker 3: in the car. He comes out with the gray sweatpants,
Speaker 3: thrusting his crotch at the window as he's getting her
Speaker 3: the coffee.
Speaker 2: Favorite cup and favorite mug uh huh, you know hates
Speaker 2: her already.
Speaker 3: This is also after the dinner is also after she
Speaker 3: is Meredith is making the strata in the kitchen with Patrick, right.
Speaker 3: It's important because when Julie does make it, she's like, so, wait,
Speaker 3: you're cooking? Why am I here? Again?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Like everything is chill, everything is cool. So this is
Speaker 3: an indication of Meredith being a ridiculous person.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And she says I needed my sister. That's
Speaker 1: like her thing, and then it's okay, down to dinner.
Speaker 2: They're in a world where FaceTime and telephones don't exist.
Speaker 4: Exactly, but listen, but listen. But also.
Speaker 5: This is the the only time y'all will ever hear
Speaker 5: me defend Meredith. Although I think I defended her in
Speaker 5: the early side. I mean a Meredith a Meredith stand anyway.
Speaker 5: But one of the ways that I will defend Meredith
Speaker 5: is that I can also kind of understand being in
Speaker 5: this extraordinarily hostile environment and being like, my sister is
Speaker 5: my security blanket.
Speaker 4: I need my fucking security blanket.
Speaker 1: Sure, okay, but then.
Speaker 2: You go to her, then you say, okay, look, I
Speaker 2: can't deal with this anymore. Ef it I'm going to
Speaker 2: go visit my sister. You want to come, we.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't have had a movie to ever come to the end. Well,
Speaker 1: she does come to the end. That's what she does.
Speaker 1: It's she's there to spend this time with Everett.
Speaker 3: And luckily she came just in time for them to
Speaker 3: have dinner. Are you happy? You like how I did that?
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: Now this is pivotal. This is the pivotal time. We're
Speaker 1: at the dinner table. Yeah, And Julie asks a question
Speaker 1: that I don't know, what do you think of Julie's
Speaker 1: question because she no one took any offense, all right,
Speaker 1: So she asks that do you care about the race
Speaker 1: of the baby that you know you're adopting, right, which.
Speaker 3: And Meredith is like shocked and appalled that she wouldn't
Speaker 3: even say the word race and you know that and
Speaker 3: Patrick are just like, no, we just we want to
Speaker 3: have a baby. You want to have a healthy baby
Speaker 3: that we can love and that it doesn't matter a
Speaker 3: tough not a problem. And then for some reason this
Speaker 3: makes Nose makes Meredith feel the need to ask a
Speaker 3: question about nature versus nurture. Be right, you know the
Speaker 3: gay thing?
Speaker 2: These are the first gay people she has ever encountered,
Speaker 2: this woman who lives in Manhattan.
Speaker 3: And that's what that part, no sense that part, And
Speaker 3: so Sybil is like, oh I wish all my children
Speaker 3: were gay. Look at these curtains. Obviously this is not
Speaker 3: the environment.
Speaker 1: But see, I think Julie's question is just as inappropriate.
Speaker 1: Am I wrong about that?
Speaker 2: I didn't think it's well enough to ask such a personal.
Speaker 4: That's what I mean, you know, I don't I don't
Speaker 4: remember what wait, what does Julie ask?
Speaker 1: Because I got so fixated, do you have a preference
Speaker 1: as to the race of the band?
Speaker 2: And and what are they going to say?
Speaker 1: They're perfectly fine answering that, well, exactly what. That's what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, well, yes, you know, we actually do
Speaker 1: what It's a stupid question, but but I.
Speaker 5: Think that that's part of the the idea that from
Speaker 5: the first, like from the first key stroke of the script,
Speaker 5: Meredith is supposed.
Speaker 4: To be the villain.
Speaker 5: Yes, and listen, and let's also like and I'm gonna
Speaker 5: like I'm slightly jumping the gun. But like when we
Speaker 5: actually start to play out the sort of dual romance stories,
Speaker 5: the one between Everett and Julie, is played much differently
Speaker 5: than the one between Meredith and Ben True and and
Speaker 5: and Sarah. At the time, Sarah Jessica Parker is the
Speaker 5: bigger fucking star.
Speaker 3: In two thousand and because we're still We're still in
Speaker 3: Sex and the City Popularity.
Speaker 1: Except had top billing.
Speaker 4: No, Claire Danst No, No, they win in alpha order.
Speaker 4: Yeahs alpha it's alpha order. Listen and.
Speaker 5: Here yeah, because listen, because when I saw Claire Danes's
Speaker 5: name first, I was like, I beg your pardon, okay,
Speaker 5: And it's it's an alpha order.
Speaker 3: I mean, I like Claire Danes more like Saraesica Parker.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's probably alphabetical.
Speaker 1: Order because I was like, huh, maybe I didn't know
Speaker 1: something here, okay, But.
Speaker 3: But Sarah Jessica park I'm sorry, but Meredith, just like
Speaker 3: she also lacks the ability to shut the fuck up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because it's very obvious that her question about nature versus
Speaker 3: nurture is is offensive. She keeps going with, I can't
Speaker 3: believe you would actually wish for gay children. Why would
Speaker 3: you want your kids to be challenged like that, to
Speaker 3: which Thad given good Shade goes, I'm sorry, I couldn't
Speaker 3: hear what.
Speaker 1: You said, yeah, I didn't hear you. But the two
Speaker 1: of them, though, and that's what I'm saying, why does one?
Speaker 1: To me, they're both offensive questions, and to me they
Speaker 1: point to the kinds of questions. I mean that people
Speaker 1: feel entitled to ask of those that they other fair.
Speaker 5: But but I also think that this is partly like
Speaker 5: if we if we want to sort of step all
Speaker 5: the way out the ways that the industry understand Sarah
Speaker 5: Jisca Parker versus Claire Danes, is that Claire Danes is
Speaker 5: the beautiful one, and Sara Jisca Parker has never necessarily
Speaker 5: been understand stood as beautiful. And so there's a kind
Speaker 5: of latitude fair which I was giving her, like that
Speaker 5: we give beautiful people that we don't give people we
Speaker 5: don't consider.
Speaker 2: Beautiful if a girl isn't pretty, but the Misatlantic city,
Speaker 2: you have a.
Speaker 3: Point because apparently I fell into that trap too, because
Speaker 3: I'm like, I wasn't offended by that question, but you know,
Speaker 3: in in the in the moment I might have had answer.
Speaker 2: I'm not offended by the question. I'm offended by a word.
Speaker 2: She says, which one the N word?
Speaker 3: Normal?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's mm hmm, that's oh, that's not I'm offended. Okay,
Speaker 1: just to back up, we're talking about Julie's question I
Speaker 1: found equally offensive and it lies. Then Meredith's question is yes,
Speaker 1: the normal thing, the you know, because you know they're
Speaker 1: joking around, and she says, I wanted all my kids
Speaker 1: to be and well, no one would want that.
Speaker 3: Why would you want kids be challenged like that? You
Speaker 3: would want you would want a normal kid.
Speaker 5: And also and also, and I keep beating this fucking
Speaker 5: dad horse, but but Sarah, Jessica Parker or I'm sorry, Meredith,
Speaker 5: not just me. Meredith cannot get to the point in
Speaker 5: her career she is at out knowing how to navigate
Speaker 5: that conversation.
Speaker 1: I would it makes no sense to even bring that up.
Speaker 1: Are you concerned at all about bringing a child into
Speaker 1: the thatsth what?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But why wouldn't we bring it? Why wouldn't we bring
Speaker 1: it in? I mean, he's answering, well, but it's like
Speaker 1: it's very hard to yes, that would not happen a parson.
Speaker 5: I mean, but I mean, but listen, but it is
Speaker 5: also like it is also like the script is written
Speaker 5: by what I assume because I didn't look. But like,
Speaker 5: which is like a like a cishead liberal person who
Speaker 5: is sort of writing, like writing through the ways that
Speaker 5: they understand conservatism to function, right, Okay, And I mean,
Speaker 5: and listen, listen to like to take like to take
Speaker 5: it all the way there.
Speaker 4: It's why the fuck.
Speaker 5: We're where we are right now is because liberals have
Speaker 5: a fundamental fucking misunderstanding of how conservatism works.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 5: Okay, And also listen, we're also here because y'all don't
Speaker 5: listen to white people, don't listen to black people. But
Speaker 5: that's true, right, And the fear of being called a
Speaker 5: racist is much than being a racist exactly right, because
Speaker 5: racism is just burning crosses on the front lawn and
Speaker 5: clan hoods.
Speaker 3: And if it's not that, then it's not racism.
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, But we digress.
Speaker 1: But we're at dinner right.
Speaker 4: Wait?
Speaker 1: Are we saying that that character, that the Meretith character
Speaker 1: is the conservative?
Speaker 4: Is that what I think that?
Speaker 5: No, I think that there is there is a way
Speaker 5: that the when the film wants to introduce a kind
Speaker 5: of conservativism into the universe, it is through the It
Speaker 5: is through the liberalness of the writer. And we must
Speaker 5: always already put that on Meredith because we are supposed
Speaker 5: to hate Meredith, and as liberals, we are supposed to
Speaker 5: hate conservatism and conservative ideals and listen, and Jesus already
Speaker 5: created Will and Grace in nineteen ninety eight, so that
Speaker 5: fixed homophobia.
Speaker 3: Right, it's true, but we're still three years away from
Speaker 3: Obama fixing racism.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I get it. So but yeah, so I
Speaker 1: don't understand. Here's the next thing I don't understand, okay,
Speaker 1: is she doesn't stop talking. She causes the upset with
Speaker 1: her words. Uh huh, not their responses. I'm sorry. Their
Speaker 1: responses make sense, yeah, given what she just spewed.
Speaker 5: And then.
Speaker 1: She says thanks a lot to Everett. What the fuck
Speaker 1: was he supput? Because he said, why don't you try
Speaker 1: saying what you do mean?
Speaker 3: Right, which, well, she tried to get Patrick to back
Speaker 3: her up. She was like, Shirley Patrick, you must understand.
Speaker 4: Like as the as the negro in the room, exactly right.
Speaker 3: And that's when he says, well, boss, it looks like
Speaker 3: we've been hit twice. And he made sure to sign
Speaker 3: that ship, dude, right, And yeah, So.
Speaker 1: Like I don't understand, you know, and ever it's mad now,
Speaker 1: evert's mad at the family, right for what I never
Speaker 1: understand for.
Speaker 4: What I think he's mad.
Speaker 5: Retrospectively, so so so listen, so listen. It is okay,
Speaker 5: so here it is, so listen. I am this person,
Speaker 5: which is to say, I'm the I'm a little teapot.
Speaker 5: And what I mean by that is that I don't
Speaker 5: scream immediately, I boil, I boil, I boil, and then
Speaker 5: I get all steamed up and hear me shout okay.
Speaker 5: So I don't think metaphor Everett was mad at that situation.
Speaker 5: I think that was the cherry on top of the
Speaker 5: ship Sunday, Yes, there go.
Speaker 2: Yes. I also think because we saw his trophies, we
Speaker 2: know he has a great job. He is the eldest,
Speaker 2: he's supposed to get the ring as being the oldest,
Speaker 2: so he has had it easy, as his mother is
Speaker 2: gonna say to him very shortly. And I think he
Speaker 2: just thought it was going to be easy for Everett
Speaker 2: to come home, introduce Meredith, and his mother was going
Speaker 2: to get cured because of it, and all kinds of
Speaker 2: good things were going to happen because Everett's had a
Speaker 2: charmed life, right, yeah, No.
Speaker 3: So Meredith is a wreck because so that no one
Speaker 3: loves her.
Speaker 1: You know, that didn't happen yet they go off to
Speaker 1: the bar and suddenly we see this whole other version
Speaker 1: of her.
Speaker 5: Okay, listen in the theme of nothing fucking makes sense
Speaker 5: in this movie. All it takes is the uptight city
Speaker 5: girl to have the hippie from San Francisco like to
Speaker 5: take her to a dive bar, and all of a
Speaker 5: sudden get right back to where we started from as
Speaker 5: her jam and she like she's dancing to it in
Speaker 5: her pencil skirt, like are we kidding?
Speaker 2: The bun is still up the room with her boyfriend.
Speaker 2: She's too uptight for that.
Speaker 1: But all of a sudden, exactly exactly.
Speaker 5: But but but I think I think we've already yes,
Speaker 5: because she's had the car. She's she's wrecked the car
Speaker 5: because also a city girl can't drive, but somehow but
Speaker 5: somehow ever it can but she can't.
Speaker 4: But they both live in the city. But got it.
Speaker 4: But but also from from that is actually where in
Speaker 4: the car crash is where her like.
Speaker 5: We start to see some whispyes, and so by the
Speaker 5: time by the time she's at the bar karaoke, we've
Speaker 5: got the metaphorical whispies, right.
Speaker 3: Sure, well that's my whole thing. It's like, okay, So
Speaker 3: she gets to the bar, she's with Ben, She's got
Speaker 3: a couple of drink centers, she laughing, right, So does
Speaker 3: that mean we're supposed to like her now because it
Speaker 3: don't work.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden she trusts people, Well, you're supposed
Speaker 1: to see that around the where there is chemistry around that.
Speaker 1: You know, a good match brings out the realness in
Speaker 1: a person's I think what we're supposed to see.
Speaker 2: Then she should have matched with Brad because when they
Speaker 2: were dancing, they felt more comfortable than any other couples
Speaker 2: to say I've seen so far.
Speaker 3: And also, so that just means that Ben is just
Speaker 3: okay with the fact that you know, she's out there
Speaker 3: talking about his gay brother. It's his brother too.
Speaker 1: I know that I wouldn't want to be.
Speaker 4: Sitting because they're all awful. Well.
Speaker 1: But so while that's happening, you know, we've got Everett
Speaker 1: walking around looking for her and and trying to spend
Speaker 1: as much time as he possibly can with Julie, and
Speaker 1: you know, Julie sends him away. Craig gen Nelson shows up.
Speaker 1: I just I'm here to apologize for what exactly you
Speaker 1: said enough because this person was disrespecting your family right
Speaker 1: in an ugly way, and you spoke up to end it,
Speaker 1: probably later than you should have, and now you're there
Speaker 1: to put you. You left home to go over to
Speaker 1: the hotel to apologize it. This bit, what's that about?
Speaker 4: It is only so that, like so that she can
Speaker 4: run to the door thinking it was ever happened?
Speaker 2: Well, I guess, but but also there are families and
Speaker 2: there are people and I'll say the Italian word for it, Dulcimore,
Speaker 2: that's my second family. It's not whether you're right or wrong.
Speaker 2: You got upset, you made a fuss, the situation made
Speaker 2: a fuss.
Speaker 5: Okay, So it's very waspy in that way, very very yes, okay,
Speaker 5: you weren't polite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry that the whole You know, just well,
Speaker 2: look who he's married to. Don't you think he goes
Speaker 2: around saying I'm sorry to people an awful lot because
Speaker 2: maybe you know, Sybil has has alienated a few more people.
Speaker 2: She wasn't real nice to the Patrick at first. No,
Speaker 2: Amy wasn't nice to past never mind first.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I like that's one of the
Speaker 1: many things that made no sense to me.
Speaker 3: Right, and then we're actually skipping a major chunk of
Speaker 3: the story. We haven't talked about how the family is
Speaker 3: reacting to First of all, whether or not they know
Speaker 3: that Sybil is sick. Well, I was getting there when
Speaker 3: they found out. Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I was getting Okay.
Speaker 3: And if I'm out of order, well no, because this
Speaker 3: is sprinkled throughout all of these things happening.
Speaker 7: Yes, we're getting to the juicy Shitcause.
Speaker 5: Wait, because I have a question about the scene where
Speaker 5: Susana goes to get in bed with Diane Diane Keaton
Speaker 5: on this because like, and oh gosh, and I can't
Speaker 5: remember what she's I think she says like how many
Speaker 5: people know where well knows who else knows? And and
Speaker 5: so because and like that was a moment where I
Speaker 5: was like, oh, so, like it feels like the children understand,
Speaker 5: like know what's going on even though there's not been
Speaker 5: a conversation about it.
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so they knew she was sick because the
Speaker 1: Sanah knew it. And then I know we okay, so
Speaker 1: we learn when she opens her blouse to her husband
Speaker 1: or her top, we learned that you know she's had
Speaker 1: a mastectom No, that's but.
Speaker 2: That's that's later, that's later, that's Christmas.
Speaker 1: I understand that. But but we learned from that point
Speaker 1: in the movie they knew before she's been through treatment.
Speaker 1: What they don't realize is it's back Ben.
Speaker 2: But Kelly tells Ben or Ben says, and he does
Speaker 2: when in the stands, yeah, huh, she's mom's worst.
Speaker 5: Isn't Yeah, it's not Yeah, he says, it's not good
Speaker 5: and okay, and then.
Speaker 2: He says, she wanted to wait until after the holidays
Speaker 2: to tell you kids. You aren't going to let you
Speaker 2: children go through like not knowing living a lodge days?
Speaker 2: How about getting to get how about operating as a
Speaker 2: family and getting through it together.
Speaker 3: I think he wanted Sybil to have a good Christmas,
Speaker 3: and I.
Speaker 1: Think she wanted it to feel normal. That made complete
Speaker 1: sense to me, And I have lived through this scenario
Speaker 1: with with folks who said, I'm not bringing you know,
Speaker 1: I have a dire diagnosis. I'm not doing that. I'm
Speaker 1: not bringing that to Christmas. You know, we'll deal with
Speaker 1: it come January. And so that made perfect sense to
Speaker 1: me because I've seen it play out. You know where
Speaker 1: it's like, we're going to have I really want this
Speaker 1: normal or I really want this not as a character
Speaker 1: in the in the story because of how everyone gets
Speaker 1: you know when, because one of the conversations we got
Speaker 1: into last night is you know, Ben comes back and
Speaker 1: he is high because they were getting high and eating brownies.
Speaker 1: And then you know, Dad, there's this information.
Speaker 3: It wasn't the Berniees that were passing a bowl.
Speaker 1: B oh, I thought they were eating too, I thought
Speaker 1: anyway and smoking. But anyway, they come back and she says,
Speaker 1: you know, did you have fun getting high with daddy?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: So the look in what's her name in Amy's face
Speaker 2: that Amy was suspecting something.
Speaker 3: Right, that was what I said. He's hugging his mother
Speaker 3: and she's hugging him, and then she gets a look
Speaker 3: on her face and then Amy comes in and is like,
Speaker 3: what's going on? So that's when she pulls him away
Speaker 3: from her and goes, did you have a good time
Speaker 3: getting high? Amy? Off the scent.
Speaker 2: They all have it hanging over their head that they
Speaker 2: went through this with her already, as we will see
Speaker 2: during have yourself merry little Christmas?
Speaker 1: Ye, And that's right. So that's I mean, we know
Speaker 1: that that's all happened before. It's not. This is not
Speaker 1: the new information is it's back right, and it is
Speaker 1: you know, that plays a character in this whole thing.
Speaker 2: And I have to say, I told you I watched
Speaker 2: this especially last night to kind of remind myself why
Speaker 2: I truly love this movie. And those moments of Diane
Speaker 2: Keaton at the beginning when she gets at the ornament
Speaker 2: and the tree, the reflective moments and the quiet moments
Speaker 2: that Diane Keaton gives in this movie are incredible, right,
Speaker 2: because it's like the core that's the heart of this
Speaker 2: movie is this woman is looking at her last Christmas
Speaker 2: with her children.
Speaker 3: That parton, yeah, looking at the snow outside at the end,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, she wants to memorize it. She wants
Speaker 3: to hold on to It's the last one she's going
Speaker 3: to see.
Speaker 1: And that's right. And you know, I do think you
Speaker 1: know that that character, the illness being that character, that
Speaker 1: her impending demise leaving this family, are they going to
Speaker 1: be okay? You know? And her concern over that, I
Speaker 1: think is another character in the movie, Like the tension
Speaker 1: whatever it is because of that, Like I don't want
Speaker 1: to see him married to somebody who's I know that's
Speaker 1: not going to work out. I know my kids is
Speaker 1: the the thing there, and yet like I know my kids,
Speaker 1: I want you know, hey, Brad's still in town, he's
Speaker 1: still single, because right, because.
Speaker 2: I'm a controlling pain in the ass who's not going
Speaker 2: to be able to control you much better.
Speaker 1: That would be the while I let.
Speaker 2: The puppet master, not wrong, pull her strings while she's
Speaker 2: still town.
Speaker 1: Okay, And the charitable way to look at that would
Speaker 1: be she is a mother who really knows who her
Speaker 1: kids are.
Speaker 5: And you know, I also listen. But also on the
Speaker 5: one hand, listen, I'm not a child. I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 5: not I don't have children rather, and I'm not a parent.
Speaker 5: But also like, as a parent, do you really know,
Speaker 5: like who's best for your child as a partner, like
Speaker 5: as a romantic.
Speaker 1: I think you know who's not sure? Absolutely you know?
Speaker 1: You Yes? As a parent, yes, you do.
Speaker 3: You know whether or not say something is a different thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You may not necessarily be able to pick the partner,
Speaker 1: of course, but to sit there and say this is
Speaker 1: not going to work, you know, because I know who
Speaker 1: my kid is, and my kid's going to walk all
Speaker 1: over that person and never respect them. Sure, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: like bad, bad match or a good match, because I
Speaker 1: see the chemistry at work.
Speaker 3: So let's sprinkle in a couple of moments because we
Speaker 3: we got to get to the end. So okay, So
Speaker 3: Brad who popped Dames Cherry shows up at the bar. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so now Meredith is like, oh my god, you're
Speaker 3: Brad Stevenson, the one who popped Dame is Cherry. I'm
Speaker 3: going to buy the house around and I'm inviting you
Speaker 3: to Christmas Day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all of a sudden, Yeah, because.
Speaker 3: You know you don't like these people, which you can
Speaker 3: invite people over to the house.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so he's one of the family already. And yet, yeah,
Speaker 2: we get to Everett, I can't marry you in a
Speaker 2: few minutes.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, which was so juicy. This is actually where
Speaker 3: I came. That's actually where I came in the first
Speaker 3: time I saw the movie. But anyway, all right, so wait,
Speaker 3: when do we get to the part where Sybil actually
Speaker 3: does give every the ring.
Speaker 2: We're not pasted to meet me in Saint Louis yet I.
Speaker 1: Think we jumped past it, didn't we that that happened
Speaker 1: that night? So uh, that night.
Speaker 2: Because he's looking at the ring. No, it's the other ring.
Speaker 2: It's he's looking at the box the ring he bought.
Speaker 2: That's right, while the song is on.
Speaker 3: So Meredith and benmore drunk. She sleep slept in the bed,
Speaker 3: he slept on the.
Speaker 1: Floor, right, Patrick and Fad went back to the end.
Speaker 3: Where it was safe, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so it's in the morning when she does
Speaker 1: give him the ring. It's your ring, it's your decision.
Speaker 1: But that's when they have that that that morning, Whenever
Speaker 1: and Sybil have that heart to heart like you can't
Speaker 1: fix it, right, I am thick and you can't fix that.
Speaker 2: Another one of those moments where I absolutely love her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, good acting on both of their parts. Him like
Speaker 3: holding back his sobs while trying to like listen to
Speaker 3: her and agree with her and everything. So he has
Speaker 3: the ring the family stone mm hmm and walks Julie. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and he has to try on the ring and he goes,
Speaker 3: come here, puts the ring on her fingers.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is so fucking strange.
Speaker 4: Listen, listen.
Speaker 5: It is the only line in this whole movie that
Speaker 5: felt like it came from a truly real place was
Speaker 5: when Amy was like, why would you do that?
Speaker 3: Exactly why? I want to see it on your right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the Julie has the ring on, she can't
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 1: Off because he's following his heart. Now, that's what doesn't
Speaker 1: make it less creepy. She's struggling to get the ring off.
Speaker 1: Sybil is like, I know this sounds terrible. Please can
Speaker 1: we like be careful with the setting?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Julie runs into the bathroom. Then Meredith comes in and
Speaker 3: she's like, what's going on? Julie's in the bathroom. She
Speaker 3: goes in the bathroom, Julie shows her the ring.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: And she's like, what is that? It's your wedding ring?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? And then wait why is it on
Speaker 3: your finger?
Speaker 2: Then she so can I just quibble for a second
Speaker 2: as long you know it's not your wedding ring, it's
Speaker 2: your engagement ring?
Speaker 3: I know, fair enough?
Speaker 1: Yeah I had that and they kept saying wedding ring,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, really, that's not a wedding ring, that's
Speaker 1: not even the two together engagement.
Speaker 3: Theoretically, he would have had to like give her the
Speaker 3: ring that he bought, and then the wedding room be
Speaker 3: the family stone and you put the two together anyway,
Speaker 3: and this is the.
Speaker 1: Part where you say to me, it's not a documentary.
Speaker 3: Now. This is also after Meredith wakes up in Ben's
Speaker 3: bed and this automatically assumed that he had sex just
Speaker 3: there's no question because of course, why wouldn't he because.
Speaker 1: This or why wouldn't she because she knew she wanted
Speaker 1: to and she doesn't really remember.
Speaker 2: But this little fluozy who would not sleep in the
Speaker 2: same room as her boyfriend Dudstone's house, thinks she slept
Speaker 2: with his.
Speaker 1: Because she's following her heart now that and that's who
Speaker 1: she really is, and that's who she really.
Speaker 3: Because if you'll notice, when she's in the bathroom with
Speaker 3: Julie and she doesn't say but alludes to the fact
Speaker 3: that she has sex with Ben, she has this look
Speaker 3: on her face like she is so proud of herself
Speaker 3: for being bad and naughty and.
Speaker 5: Julie soap Oh yeah yeah, because Julie also like has
Speaker 5: a reaction that is that that seems to make it
Speaker 5: feel like either like Estella's getting her groove back, or.
Speaker 1: Or that like.
Speaker 4: Either Stella's getting her groove back, or like, oh, this
Speaker 4: is my ice Princess sister kind of unthawing a little bit.
Speaker 3: Oh, I totally read it as ill you ho.
Speaker 1: That's but is it you ho again? Like you wonder like?
Speaker 5: But also I mean also like Julie, I'm gonna need
Speaker 5: you to keep all your fucking stones in your pocket
Speaker 5: because you've finish fuck her ex boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is true, but at least because she's
Speaker 1: following her at least when that happens, Julie wasn't actively
Speaker 1: engaged to anyone or related to anybody, so that she's
Speaker 1: I think her and Ben, other than the fact that
Speaker 1: yes they are, you know, playing the same, they're the
Speaker 1: innocent ones more so than the other two.
Speaker 5: Well, listen, I'm not letting Ben off the hook. And
Speaker 5: that doesn't mean that I don't like him for Meredith,
Speaker 5: but I'm not letting him off the hook because the
Speaker 5: fact of the matter is is when you met this woman,
Speaker 5: you knew that she was fucking your brother and that
Speaker 5: still didn't stop you.
Speaker 1: Well, well, they had well, but they didn't do anything.
Speaker 3: They didn't do anything. Yet that night nothing didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Nothing happened, And that's what he says.
Speaker 1: He slept on the floor, she slept on the bed.
Speaker 5: Let me pretend for half a second that I have
Speaker 5: a gay brother, me and my gay brother, and never never, ever, ever,
Speaker 5: ever entertaining fucking the same person. Fair be we entertained
Speaker 5: and dating the same person we entertain in none of
Speaker 5: that fair.
Speaker 3: But again there is a little bit of day.
Speaker 1: Yeah it happens where you know, like, wasn't the right match.
Speaker 4: Here's quickly listen.
Speaker 5: Here's the thing is, if we change these people from
Speaker 5: wealthy white people to poor Latino people, we would think
Speaker 5: this was a god like, we would think this movie
Speaker 5: was the worst goddamn thing ever. You know, it is
Speaker 5: whiteness and wealth that makes this this specifically wopping.
Speaker 2: Okay, see the result of this at the end, after
Speaker 2: Sybil is gone. Sorry I'm skipping ahead, because there is
Speaker 2: still no chemistry going on there. They got their arms
Speaker 2: around each other, but nobody looks comfortable. Meredith certainly doesn't
Speaker 2: look any happier than she ever did.
Speaker 1: Oh, Elsie, I think she does.
Speaker 2: I think I don't think she's looking down and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: this is as good as it's gonna get.
Speaker 1: And I see that entirely the opposite, Like she's finally
Speaker 1: relaxed and with who she's supposed to be with, which
Speaker 1: I feel like she's in a bond a little sad.
Speaker 3: But we're skipping past the park where I came in,
Speaker 3: so we're we're in the middle of opening presence. Brad
Speaker 3: comes over. Oh my goodness, what are you doing here? Hey, Amy,
Speaker 3: I want to show you something. He gives her a
Speaker 3: Christmas gift that she loves. Okay, I'm skipping. I'm getting
Speaker 3: them out of the way. So Everett wants to talk
Speaker 3: to Meredith. Do we know about.
Speaker 2: Gives the presence out right?
Speaker 3: Meredith gives the presence out, so that's okay.
Speaker 1: Yes, We've had the moment of confusion right with Craig
Speaker 1: seeing her in the bed right then she smacks him
Speaker 1: thinking they slept together.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Oh, she says to her sister, I just got here,
Speaker 3: even though she just came upstairs, right, she's a lying hoey.
Speaker 1: To But don't Is it straightened out yet by the
Speaker 1: time she gives out the gifts, No, no.
Speaker 4: It's not.
Speaker 3: No, she gives out the presence. It's a beautiful picture. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because we still have to have because the nutcracker, right,
Speaker 3: it happened to get I'm trying to get there so
Speaker 3: she gives. She gives everyone in the family of presidents
Speaker 3: and they each get a framed photo of Sybil pregnant
Speaker 3: with Amy. She thought it was it was ever, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter. Everyone's having their own individual reaction to the photo.
Speaker 2: Nobody is just a normal gracious like.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you, like well, no, Amy is starting to
Speaker 3: break down. He wants to apologize to to Meredith like
Speaker 3: she had that moment and and Sybil, I think this
Speaker 3: is the best it's going to get looked at her
Speaker 3: and said you did good. That's the best. You go
Speaker 3: and get out of her.
Speaker 2: That was high praising roll control control.
Speaker 1: So then Everett wants to pull Meredith aside for what
Speaker 1: for some reason, she's assuming he wants to under think
Speaker 1: he I think he actually wants to say, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe we should break up.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think he's got to jump in a second.
Speaker 2: Has the ring fallen off the rotten kids finger yet,
Speaker 2: because that's not the thing.
Speaker 3: No, not get there yet. No, okay, and so yeah,
Speaker 3: so Everett wants to pull her aside to tell her
Speaker 3: presumably he wants to break up, and she cutting him off,
Speaker 3: saying no, we can, we need to talk. And then
Speaker 3: finally she jumps in, now, I'm not going to marry
Speaker 3: you presumptuous again well, and then he goes because I didn't.
Speaker 1: She was told she was from here. Right, here's the
Speaker 1: bring he's about to propose you with that. It's right here,
Speaker 1: So it's not a it's not presumptuous. Get slash.
Speaker 3: This is where Charles reads this this movie through I
Speaker 3: hate Sara Jessica Parker also that okay, you're probably right okay,
Speaker 3: and then he looks at her and goes, I didn't ask.
Speaker 3: But and this is again, this is where I came
Speaker 3: in on this movie. My first time seeing this movie
Speaker 3: started with her giving out the photos the gifts. So
Speaker 3: then this whole thing with I didn't ask. I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is juicy.
Speaker 1: So then and then this is when she says, right,
Speaker 1: I know what you all think of me, and up
Speaker 1: with his brother.
Speaker 3: Isn't this the moment you've all been waiting for?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Isn't this the moment you've all been waiting for, I
Speaker 3: know what you think of me?
Speaker 1: When then she comes and sleeps with his brother, and
Speaker 1: then Ben says, wait a minute, we did not sleep together.
Speaker 1: So that should be the end of it. There's no
Speaker 1: reason forever to be upset whatsoever with Ben. Nothing happened and.
Speaker 9: You were about to break anyway, exactly Colling, Because that's
Speaker 9: again one thing that never made sense to me, this
Speaker 9: whole scene, the whole thing that ensues.
Speaker 1: At this point in the movie. I'm like, why, right,
Speaker 1: what you mad about?
Speaker 3: Also, I did have to write down because you say,
Speaker 3: I know what you see, Meredith, the spoiled, crazy, racist,
Speaker 3: bigot bitch from Medford. That's what you all think. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, I do, I think, you do? I think?
Speaker 1: And that's later is like the.
Speaker 5: Thing, that little bit, the thing that annoys me about
Speaker 5: this whole thing, Like, this whole bit is that Sarah
Speaker 5: Jessica Parker slash Meredith then spends the rest of Christmas
Speaker 5: Day in that fucking Eggy t show.
Speaker 4: Thank You, thank you.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I was like, how long has she been wearing rotten eggs?
Speaker 1: Now? Oh my god, oh my god? But so so yeah,
Speaker 1: so to me, it's it should be over right, it
Speaker 1: should be.
Speaker 3: But then Everett's mad at Ben, even though he already
Speaker 3: just said nothing happened. I don't know why he's mad
Speaker 3: or why he's chasing him around the room to the
Speaker 3: tune of the Russian Dancer and the Nutcracker, and you
Speaker 3: were just about to break up with her, right and
Speaker 3: then you and this is after we dumped the strata
Speaker 3: on poor Meredith and Amy slips in it there all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, now this.
Speaker 2: Movie becomes it's a mad, mad, mad mad All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, we got slapstick.
Speaker 5: But then but then but then it's but it's through
Speaker 5: the but it's through the slapstick that all of a sudden,
Speaker 5: now like Sybil and Amy light.
Speaker 4: Merriton, Yeah, they're all the right, like because like now that.
Speaker 5: She's got you know, egg on her shirt and they've
Speaker 5: slipped and slid slidden around in egg shit on the floor,
Speaker 5: right then now we can all be friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of And.
Speaker 2: Meredith says the truest words in this whole movie, Amy,
Speaker 2: you're the worst.
Speaker 3: Right, that's when Amy slips in. But it was like,
Speaker 3: why what's so great about you guys? Like nothing, We're
Speaker 3: just we're all we've got, ye.
Speaker 1: Right, And we're all we've got. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's truer words. Like I said, I've seen that family
Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, you know, they
Speaker 1: make whatever they make kind of work. Because yeah, they're
Speaker 1: their own system, right.
Speaker 2: Because none of these people have social skills.
Speaker 3: Apparently, including Everett and Ben who are wrestling under the table.
Speaker 3: They knocked the table.
Speaker 1: Again over what that's what makes like? What are we
Speaker 1: wrestling for?
Speaker 3: For no god reason?
Speaker 1: Either was there a scene that would have explained it
Speaker 1: all that we cut out? Or how do we wind
Speaker 1: up fighting when there's nothing to fight over?
Speaker 3: We had to get to this moment and Everett just
Speaker 3: needs to.
Speaker 5: Be no, listen, I think listen. I think that is
Speaker 5: a that I think that's that's a straight man thing
Speaker 5: like listen, and it is also but.
Speaker 4: It's also it's also a sibling thing where it's like
Speaker 4: like I don't want this toy, but you can't have it.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: And you and I would agree with you if he didn't.
Speaker 1: Just nothing happened. There's nothing for you.
Speaker 5: But they got close enough that it could have that
Speaker 5: it could have and and and Meredith has let it
Speaker 5: be known that it got close enough that even she
Speaker 5: is not sure that it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Okay, although I read that more as like, well, of
Speaker 3: course it happened, why wouldn't it And it's st but
Speaker 3: you're doing that yeah, you're I'm owning it.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's but I think like we're
Speaker 5: actually just saying that the same side of the of
Speaker 5: the coin, which is that either like you know, either
Speaker 5: she doesn't know that it happened or whether or not
Speaker 5: it happens or happened rather or that, or she knows
Speaker 5: that it happened, and she's like, eh.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so.
Speaker 3: Fuck what happens next?
Speaker 1: Well that they wind up brustling on the floor.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they knocked the table over. Those poor auto
Speaker 3: chokes them.
Speaker 1: Well, they were sitting there, they were under the table
Speaker 1: for a minute, right, m And then we've.
Speaker 4: Got and then they and they and they somehow knocked
Speaker 4: the leg off the you.
Speaker 1: Know, the women are bonding over here. I should have
Speaker 1: calmed down. And then yeah, inexplicably they start fighting again.
Speaker 3: Right and the table falls down.
Speaker 1: Ben tries to like say, everything's okay. Ever it like
Speaker 1: there's nothing to be upset, and then.
Speaker 2: He goes, you don't even love her, men.
Speaker 1: That's right, she's right there though. Damn. But it's but
Speaker 1: it's an obvious truth. I mean, it's an obvious truth.
Speaker 1: And you know, he says it, and now evert's violent again, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what because.
Speaker 5: Listen, because they are a wasp family that has never
Speaker 5: understood how to deal with their emotions, and so for him,
Speaker 5: violence is the way. And listen, and for fucking straight men,
Speaker 5: violence is the way you deal with him.
Speaker 3: They can't even hug you without hitting you.
Speaker 2: The fact that everybody doesn't jump up and try to
Speaker 2: pull the or do something. They've seen this before, They've
Speaker 2: been down this road with the two with them before,
Speaker 2: with every I don't believe that.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 5: And let's also be clear, like if we listen, if
Speaker 5: we are talking about mes on san and if we're
Speaker 5: talking about the sound.
Speaker 4: Design, uh huh.
Speaker 5: The fact is is that if we hadn't seen that before,
Speaker 5: there is no way they'd be fighting to a song
Speaker 5: as bright as Chikowski's trip Back for.
Speaker 4: You're right.
Speaker 2: Max uses that melody in The Producers when he's plotting,
Speaker 2: so that is not used for serious stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, It's not where do we close out? Where do
Speaker 1: we close out? The kitchen thing? It just ends what's
Speaker 1: the I think that like? Because aren't we see Ben.
Speaker 2: I can rewind because I am mobiles.
Speaker 1: Ben says, go take a shower, you smell like puke.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's like the table falls, and then
Speaker 3: Julie just is like, I'm out, okay, so leaving follows right,
Speaker 3: He's like running after oh yeah, because.
Speaker 4: He's like this is this is the moment where it
Speaker 4: actually turns into Clear Danes' movie.
Speaker 3: Right, So he's like, where's Julie And the kid goes, oh,
Speaker 3: she left right right. And then someone who asked her like,
Speaker 3: why does the kid have the ring? Her mother okay, her.
Speaker 2: Mother is actually paying attention to her, says why.
Speaker 3: So the kid says, oh, because Julie gave Julie gave
Speaker 3: it to me and told me to give it to Yeah.
Speaker 3: And so he's jogging toward the bus station. Kelly pulls
Speaker 3: up in the car, get in, They get to the
Speaker 3: bus station, they see her, she waves, the bus comes
Speaker 3: and uh. He runs up and he basically says, don't go,
Speaker 3: you can't go. And I'm like, don't tell her what
Speaker 3: she can do anyway, and she's like, I can't stay.
Speaker 3: It's too much. No, it isn't, sir, yes day. And
Speaker 3: then we make plans for New Years three, right, So
Speaker 3: she gets on the bus, right, she gets on the bus.
Speaker 3: From then we cut to Kelly's perspective, he sees the bus,
Speaker 3: he doesn't see them. The bus pulls away and we
Speaker 3: just see Everett standing there by himself. Now Everetts standing
Speaker 3: there looking all sad. Then the bus stops. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3: He runs to the bus. She comes out. I can't
Speaker 3: believe that. She asks for the bus to stop and
Speaker 3: they let it stop. Well, she gets off.
Speaker 4: That's listen, that's peak White Lady ship.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, maybe, yes, yeah, because it wouldn't
Speaker 1: happen in Phillage.
Speaker 3: Let me ask a bus driver to stop after he
Speaker 3: just pulled off, No one. He's probably five minutes behind Scutch.
Speaker 3: So she was like, I just wanted to know what
Speaker 3: you what you were doing for New Year's which means
Speaker 3: he's got a shot. He's in there. Yay, we're swapping sisters, right.
Speaker 2: Okay, she gets on the bus, bus pulls away and
Speaker 2: we have close ups of Everett looking hot. I have
Speaker 2: to say that shot get back walking back? Where are Kelly?
Speaker 2: And said in the car?
Speaker 1: Maybe he's just walking to the car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's walking back to the car. Because when
Speaker 3: they showed, when they show from Kelly's perspective, it was
Speaker 3: way up that way, right, yes, okay, I wouldn't, and
Speaker 3: you know, Kelly don't want to get nobody's business. He's
Speaker 3: going to stay where he's there.
Speaker 2: Okay, because he's in an abusive relationship with Sibyl.
Speaker 1: Not for long though, huh, but saying she dies. If
Speaker 1: we only have your perspective.
Speaker 2: I'd be in an apartment if I with Kelly in
Speaker 2: the second.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, that would be that that shot is actually
Speaker 5: that shot of him like walking back is also just
Speaker 5: comical in a way that it's not supposed to be right,
Speaker 5: if not, particularly because I think it's so tonally off, because.
Speaker 4: There is a way that even as we knew.
Speaker 5: That this or even as it became Claire Danes's movie,
Speaker 5: the way that the movie starts makes it feel like
Speaker 5: it's Sarah Jessica Parker's movie, and so that that Dermott
Speaker 5: and Danes get the sort of last romance shots is what.
Speaker 4: Makes the movie feel weird because because because it's weird again,
Speaker 4: and it's.
Speaker 5: Not just weird because of the siblings swapping shit, even
Speaker 5: though that's weird enough, but it's just it's weird because
Speaker 5: this late in the movie, the movie has actually told
Speaker 5: us who the hero is and that's not who we
Speaker 5: thought was the hero all along.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, who's the hero?
Speaker 5: And like, like, there is a way that I think, well,
Speaker 5: actually I shouldn't say who's the hero. I should say
Speaker 5: whose story it is, because I think that we were
Speaker 5: led to believe all along that it was meredith story.
Speaker 1: Uh huh. And see, I think it's Sybil's story.
Speaker 2: I do, it is, I agree with you, but it's
Speaker 2: the villain of the story. But it is her story.
Speaker 3: The focus did really shift the second we saw Claire Danes,
Speaker 3: like the way it was.
Speaker 1: Shot, it's true, Yeah, it is true. And from that perspective, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see the shift.
Speaker 2: As it always does when the pretty girl shows up.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Let's also not like before she could show up on
Speaker 5: camera and we could hate her for being beautiful.
Speaker 4: She fucking fell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she's one of us.
Speaker 1: She's approachably beautiful. Rights, there's this little flaw and.
Speaker 5: Like, and there was never anything, there was never any
Speaker 5: adorable embarrassment that Sarah Jessica Parker was given.
Speaker 1: And she doesn't it not until not until until when
Speaker 1: she's wearing the strata. Oh right, that's and and human.
Speaker 5: I mean, but but I mean, but at that but
Speaker 5: but listen, but like the movie had already sailed and
Speaker 5: told us that Claire Danes was the get.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well okay forever she winds up being the
Speaker 1: get for Ben though for some reason.
Speaker 5: But but but but listen, but I think listen, But
Speaker 5: I think that what is what is what is important
Speaker 5: if we are talking about the the way that this
Speaker 5: story is told, it is significant that we start the
Speaker 5: movie with Meredith but we ended with Claire Danes. That
Speaker 5: is significant. Yeah, okay, because because it demonstrates in some
Speaker 5: ways like why on the one hand, the the the
Speaker 5: story works, but also visually it's a little hinky because
Speaker 5: we've actually in some because there's a way that even
Speaker 5: even as we kind of sort of understand the dislike
Speaker 5: of Meredith, because we were given Meredith from the jump,
Speaker 5: we still as viewers are trying to find a way
Speaker 5: to redeem her and still make her the hero and
Speaker 5: the star. And what this movie does ultimately is makes
Speaker 5: her a fucking second fiddle. And in some ways, that's
Speaker 5: partly why this film isn't entirely satisfying to me, is
Speaker 5: because the one who becomes the star doesn't come in
Speaker 5: until the until the midpoint.
Speaker 3: And because there's no come up, and we're just supposed to,
Speaker 3: you know, believe everyone's okay with her little viewpoints. Yeah,
Speaker 3: h and we all move on. We're all happily ever after.
Speaker 5: And and that and that Claire Danes and Effort are
Speaker 5: the only ones that we at least assume because because
Speaker 5: there's been a ring, we assume, because they don't tell us,
Speaker 5: that they are the ones who got married, or at
Speaker 5: least they are headed that way, right, And there's a
Speaker 5: way that we also assume that Berkeley Benn is never
Speaker 5: gonna get married and that he always is gonna want
Speaker 5: to be like he's gonna they want to be Goldie
Speaker 5: Hawn and Kurt Russell.
Speaker 4: They don't want they don't want to get married. They
Speaker 4: just gonna be together forever.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I think she's I think she's supporting him, probably.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because how much does a documentary film editor
Speaker 3: actually make?
Speaker 2: Burns?
Speaker 1: That's different. And you know, I don't think we're ever
Speaker 1: to assume he doesn't earn a living, are we? And
Speaker 1: hell the hell I was.
Speaker 2: Miss How can you afford during the holiday season?
Speaker 1: This is true.
Speaker 2: This is unless you have a buttload of money, you're
Speaker 2: not going to be on a third flight, because the
Speaker 2: third flight doesn't exist, so somehow he gets to his
Speaker 2: New England family.
Speaker 3: This is true.
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, I would not listen. I would not suggest, though,
Speaker 5: that Sybil did not pay for that ticket. I believe
Speaker 5: I thought that, particularly because I listened, because as a
Speaker 5: controlling parent, what she wanted, like what she wanted more
Speaker 5: than her kids to pay for their ticket, if she wanted.
Speaker 4: Them to be there, because she wanted them there.
Speaker 3: Right right, So we see that Julie still, you know,
Speaker 3: she's in there with with ever. She's going to see
Speaker 3: him on New Year's fade out, fade up to Sybil
Speaker 3: looking outside at the snow, loving seeing the snow. Patrick
Speaker 3: comes up to her and says, dinner's ready, and she
Speaker 3: looks at him and goes, it's snowing, and it's a moment, right,
Speaker 3: It's all beautiful and smiley. Then we fade to uh,
Speaker 3: presumably next year a year later. Yeah, oh yeah, it
Speaker 3: says the title card says a year later again. Patrick
Speaker 3: in thed getting out of the car, unpacking the presence
Speaker 3: and their new baby, bringing them into the house. Everyone
Speaker 3: swarms on them and says hello, and you know, Kelly
Speaker 3: is greeting King Gus, King of the World. I love
Speaker 3: that little baby in his little fluffy head.
Speaker 2: By the way, Elizabeth in this year has not aged
Speaker 2: or changed one bit.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm hmmm, well yeah, she should have been like
Speaker 3: two feet taller by this point.
Speaker 1: Probably, yeah.
Speaker 2: Different.
Speaker 1: So and Susannah's got her baby is born, but not
Speaker 1: king of anything, I guess, right, because it was.
Speaker 5: Also like they just didn't have her husband, and because
Speaker 5: I was expecting that they were like going through a
Speaker 5: divorce or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I know.
Speaker 5: I mean he pops in at the end, but I
Speaker 5: was like, we had a whole ass movie of you
Speaker 5: just not being a hero.
Speaker 3: He was the hero. He avoided all this ship right,
Speaker 3: Well he's busy.
Speaker 2: That's how they get to have yourself a merry little Christmas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, paying for their life, I guess.
Speaker 3: So then we get to, uh, they're decorating the tree.
Speaker 5: And nobody except in movies, takes as long as Rachel
Speaker 5: McAdams took to hang that one.
Speaker 2: Fucking oh my god, there's no ornaments on the tree.
Speaker 3: Well, it's because we have to see that she's wearing Sybil's.
Speaker 1: Big ring and contemplating that, you know, and it is
Speaker 1: exactly what Sybil was doing in the begin the same ornament. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's taking the time and and you know that that retrospection,
Speaker 1: except now she's wearing and again this is another family stone.
Speaker 1: Was that the big black onyx that was on Sybil's hand?
Speaker 1: And Brad says, are you okay? And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we see, so Amy's with.
Speaker 1: Bread, Sybil is not Sybil with Ben.
Speaker 3: Julie's with Everett.
Speaker 1: And we been quote Sendak when he lights up the tree,
Speaker 1: let the wild brumps begin?
Speaker 3: Yes, and then he.
Speaker 2: Says when let the wild rumpus start, which I understand
Speaker 2: is a misquote of what it's supposed to be God.
Speaker 3: And then the camera slowly pans over to the say
Speaker 3: that photo of the Sybil in a different fabulous frame.
Speaker 1: Different size, different frame, different mattering. Let's assume it was
Speaker 1: always there, I guess. And that's the end of the movie.
Speaker 2: No, it's not Charles, we have I was trying.
Speaker 3: It's give me, which makes.
Speaker 2: No sense coming out of nowhere. You have had a
Speaker 2: beautiful score. The guy who did up did the score
Speaker 2: for this. I love the music in this movie. And
Speaker 2: then you've got a Jefferson starship song at the end
Speaker 2: that truly makes no sense to me.
Speaker 3: But which makes it on brand with the rest of
Speaker 3: the film.
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 3: So, would we recommend this for three of us? I
Speaker 3: immediately know the answer this, Well, we recommend this film
Speaker 3: as a holiday favorite?
Speaker 1: Kay?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I would too.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Here's I think.
Speaker 5: I think if you approach it and you know up
Speaker 5: front that nothing really makes sense, then then it is.
Speaker 5: It's it is a truly enjoyable film. Because, let me
Speaker 5: also say this much, I feel like I hate the
Speaker 5: film more after we've talked about it than I did
Speaker 5: when I watched it.
Speaker 3: You're welcome, slash, I'm sorry, my work is done.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So so that is to say that, like then, I
Speaker 5: certainly had some notes about some things that were crazy,
Speaker 5: but like then, y'all pulled some stuff out of me
Speaker 5: that was latent.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm proud of that. Now, apparently the director is
Speaker 3: writing a sequel to this film to quote unquote Honor
Speaker 3: Diane Keaton. No, thank you, No one asked for that,
Speaker 3: because you know what's going to happen. There's going to
Speaker 3: be that scene that I noticed this year from watching
Speaker 3: so many different Christmas movies there's going to be that
Speaker 3: scene where they're having dinner around the table and the
Speaker 3: father is going to sit there and say, I'm selling
Speaker 3: the house, and then that's going to become a big
Speaker 3: old thing because no one wants them to sell the
Speaker 3: house because what Mama would have wanted. And we don't
Speaker 3: need that in another fucking movie.
Speaker 1: No, we already have that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we've seen this Christmas and almost Christmas and Mama
Speaker 3: wants Christmas and whatever the.
Speaker 4: Fuck Daddy wants a new house for Christmas.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Medea says, we don't need that.
Speaker 4: Oh god.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think this is a standalone film. It
Speaker 3: doesn't need anything else. No one asked for it in
Speaker 3: the first goddamn place.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's it is, it is. I
Speaker 5: would describe it as a great little Christmas confection, yes, because.
Speaker 3: It's sweet and tricky and has no nutritional value.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and listen, listen, And I say that with all
Speaker 5: of the respect in the world.
Speaker 3: Right, because the cast is spectacular, and you know, everyone
Speaker 3: is as gorgeous as they'll ever be. You know, Like
Speaker 3: the first one of the first things I wrote in
Speaker 3: my notes was was Sybil Diane Keaton looks fabulous. Oh
Speaker 3: my god. And Amy Adam not Amy Adams, What the
Speaker 3: fuck is her name? Rachel McAdams. Oh, completely different person,
Speaker 3: Rachel McAdams. She was gorgeous in this film and when
Speaker 3: she had the glasses and I was like, look at her.
Speaker 3: She was so cute her. But at the end I
Speaker 3: wasn't going to say it, but yeah, the booty was booty.
Speaker 3: She was battling with Patrick as to who was more
Speaker 3: caked up. I was totally not going to bring it there,
Speaker 3: but thank you.
Speaker 1: I feel good when I watch it. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I feel good. It's I think that there are kind
Speaker 1: of underlying messages of you know, love and being present
Speaker 1: and and you know.
Speaker 3: A close family is like a gang.
Speaker 1: Well but I'm I mean, I think we're supposed to
Speaker 1: see flaws and say but you know, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, like life is fleeting, time is fleeting,
Speaker 1: you know, find the best that you can find and
Speaker 1: go for it. Ryes and I feel like.
Speaker 4: That's unless Sarah Parker and your mother doesn't approve.
Speaker 1: Right, well right, except you know, it was just like Ben,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, okay, you go with Ben and that's okay,
Speaker 1: And that's that's part of it too.
Speaker 5: It's like I also find that that see listen, see
Speaker 5: like this is why we shouldn't be talking about this film,
Speaker 5: but like also really it's also really weird though that like,
Speaker 5: we don't like you for the golden boy, but we
Speaker 5: like you for the throwaway hippie one.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the story of my life.
Speaker 3: The Siba was ready to hook up Julian Ben the
Speaker 3: second she showed up, right, Yeah, and then that's not
Speaker 3: how which made sense because he was the one who
Speaker 3: was single.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not. Yeah, that's not how the chemistry
Speaker 1: of it all worked out exactly. And I think I
Speaker 1: mean the way that I look at the character of Sybil,
Speaker 1: it would be like, okay, long, does it makes sense? Good?
Speaker 4: And that.
Speaker 1: I think that's what we're supposed to be left with anyway.
Speaker 1: It's the idea that, Okay, this makes sense, you know,
Speaker 1: I forget about the message it says you have to
Speaker 1: be coupled in order to be happy. Well that part,
Speaker 1: you know, because that's what everyone winds up suddenly in
Speaker 1: a couple if they.
Speaker 4: Weren't, except except Kelly.
Speaker 1: Technically, well except Kelly.
Speaker 3: That is true because yeah, we would have addressed that.
Speaker 3: In the second movie too, he gets a girlfriend and
Speaker 3: no one likes that, which would be why he wanted
Speaker 3: to sell the house.
Speaker 4: Like here comes Katie Sagall who is always.
Speaker 3: The the new mom who nobody wants but everyone needs.
Speaker 4: But listen, I would love listen. Listen. So okay, So
Speaker 4: if they did like the family steel stoned.
Speaker 5: Or whatever, like, I would love it if they would
Speaker 5: hire Katie Cigall, but only if she played that part
Speaker 5: like peg Bundy. Oh god, Kelly, yeah, like listen, like
Speaker 5: like I mean, like we've got to have like leopard
Speaker 5: leopard pants and all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she could be Millie who makes the brownie.
Speaker 2: Brownie gets liberated from the yoke of Sybil, and that's
Speaker 2: who he goes with.
Speaker 5: Oh listen, lit, that would be listen. That would be
Speaker 5: the night and day coupling for him from Sybil.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh my, okay, Well that's one place.
Speaker 3: I think that is where we leave it.
Speaker 1: I think maybe this.
Speaker 3: Has been a delightful conversation about a movie that we
Speaker 3: all have our own feelings about but love and hate
Speaker 3: in our own wings.
Speaker 1: And it is so imperfect and that it's true. It is,
Speaker 1: and the more you watch it, the more you go like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is happening here? But I still love
Speaker 1: I watch it several times this season, I think.
Speaker 5: I mean, also we should also say this because this
Speaker 5: is I think this is one of the greatest selling
Speaker 5: points for the film. For the film is that it's
Speaker 5: not that long. So I think it's like a I
Speaker 5: think it's like a tightish like ninety ish minutes. So
Speaker 5: like I mean, by the time, like even if you
Speaker 5: were like to hate it, by the time you really
Speaker 5: started to hate it, you're fifty minutes in, and like
Speaker 5: you might as well see it for a penny.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. I think the other part of it
Speaker 1: is because there aren't many holiday movies that have such
Speaker 1: a talented cast, and you know, because a lot of
Speaker 1: them are made on the whole hell of a lot
Speaker 1: less money and very very formulaic, and this, I feel
Speaker 1: like they did something with this that was a little
Speaker 1: bit more And it's probably more than this that it
Speaker 1: feels different to me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean if it and I think it's a
Speaker 5: really lovely time capsule of that moment in Hollywood in
Speaker 5: terms of like who was hot, also in terms of
Speaker 5: like where we were when when thinking about questions around
Speaker 5: race where we were thinking around about questions around particularly
Speaker 5: male gainess within film.
Speaker 4: I think I think it it.
Speaker 5: It feels very much While it's not technically a period piece,
Speaker 5: it feels very much like a period piece in.
Speaker 3: That way, especially when you look at the cell phones,
Speaker 3: because one of the first things we see is Meritis
Speaker 3: cell phone. I'm like, I had that phone.
Speaker 5: And wait, wasn't that wasn't And here's a deep cup.
Speaker 5: Wasn't that the same kind of cell phone that Kelly
Speaker 5: Rowland was texting on? But it was actually an Excel spreadsheet.
Speaker 3: Right, and wondering why he wasn't texting her back? Yes,
Speaker 3: that part, yes, because you sent him a worksheet.
Speaker 5: Sent him an Excel spreadsheet like the formula didn't add a.
Speaker 3: You hit, saved, not send right. So, Alfred Martin Junior
Speaker 3: and Kathy O'Connell, thank you so much for returning to
Speaker 3: the full Circle table. And we have to do this again.
Speaker 1: Yes, delightful and so much fun, and yes we have
Speaker 1: to we have to pick another movie.
Speaker 3: You are officially the most visited guests full yesh. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's among the first because Gunner Montana Gunner. Yes, it's
Speaker 3: a it's an elite club.
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed it is so Thank you all so much
Speaker 1: you've been listening to Full Circle the podcast.
Speaker 3: I am your host Charles Tyson Jr.
Speaker 1: And I'm your host Martha Madrigal. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: Kathy and Alfred, and happy holidays, shaw bybe what.
Speaker 3: Full Circle is a Never Skurred Productions podcast hosted by
Speaker 3: Charles Tyson Junior and Martha Madrigal, Produced and edited by
Speaker 3: Never Scurred Executive Produced by Charles Tyson Jr. And Martha Madrigal.
Speaker 3: Our theme in music is by the jingle Berries. All names, pictures, music, audio,
Speaker 3: and video clips are registered trademarks and or copyrights of
Speaker 3: their respective copyright whole.
Speaker 2: Yes, fare back back back baa
Speaker 1: Mm hmm