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Speaker 1: But is up Fellowshiko's I am Dan Valley coming at

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you as always with my CERTI five fantab you as

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co host, mister Grant Hughes. Is that time of year

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we're just gonna talk. We're gonna break down some of

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the latest twenty twenty five NBA trained Dead Biden removes

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as well as some news just to play catch up

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on some stuff that we've recently missed or deemed noteworthy.

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Bigger announcement though, before we get started, Grant and I

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kept our pre podcast vamping till like twenty minutes today,

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which is I would say about a third of what

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we've been going lately. Do you feel more energetic to

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now do the actual podcast that you've just cut down

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exponentially cut down how much that we were talking and

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critically thinking before we hopped on.

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Speaker 2: Don't you assume that that forty minutes we didn't take up,

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we'll just get re inserted into the actual recorded portion

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of our conversation. I feel like that hour is gonna

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get eaten up one way or the other.

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Speaker 1: What tangents can these rumors that we used catch We'll see.

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Speaker 2: We'll see how punchy it gets.

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Speaker 1: How how quickly, will this be dated? There is also

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the other question here, yeah.

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Speaker 2: You're born, well, I feel like I don't think it's

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gonna be too dated, Like there's we're gonna talk about

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Jimmy Butler at some point, which I may have just

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ruined anyway, so.

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Speaker 1: You might even be if you're listening to this on audio,

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you will probably hear about Jimmy Butler at the end.

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If you're watching on YouTube, go check out our separate

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video on Jimmy Butler. Then I'm probably just gonna put

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out immediately because yeah, he is actually fun and it well,

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I'll save it for them. But what have you made?

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Just very quickly before we just kind of dig into it,

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have you made anything? Do you find like this year's

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rumor mill is happening, but do you find it repetitive

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and stale more so than other years. I just feel

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like we have this conversation we were doing our trade

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deadline big board, and are why aren't these players on

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the market. It just feels like we're recycling the same,

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like three to five names.

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Speaker 2: I think that's it's definitely true that that's what's happening

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right now. Now. I can't you know, like I can't

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remember last week, So it's hard for me to to

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say like, oh, it's different than last year or the

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year before, because to me, it always kind of feels

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like that we we're waiting for, you know, we have

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a handful of names, and then we're waiting for maybe

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some late editions or some developments that like increase the

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pool of players we're talking about this time of year.

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So I don't know, do you think it's I get

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the way you're asking the question. It does seem like

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you think this is different than years past in terms

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of like just scarcity of people to talk about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know why I feel that way,

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because you're right to an extent that it is always

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like last year it was Og and Pascal Siakham and

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that was basically kind of it. So it's on the

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same trajectory. And we've had now in a couple of seasons.

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Last year we got Siakam and Og were traded like

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pretty well before the deadline, and then this year we

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had the Shrewder trade, we had the DFS trade, and

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now we have the Jimmy Butler trade request and there's

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the stuff going on with dearon Fox. So maybe it

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should technically be more expansive, but I don't think. I

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guess what's interested or disappointed me the most is I

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don't think we've had a like surprise seller or buyer

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sort of emerge or even a plurality of it to

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where Okay, you could say the Kings, maybe they're going

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to be a surprise seller, but we don't think that,

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even as they sit in twelfth in the West. And

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not that that's a bummer, but it just makes for

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a repetitive discussion, I think a lot of the time,

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which is why parsing through the Room or Milt was like, Okay,

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with the stuff we're going to cover, maybe we've heard

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some of it before, we were trying to focus on

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things that were a little bit more novel.

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Speaker 2: Well, why do you think that is? Why do you

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think you have that feeling this year is a parody

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or is there any of the other stuff that we've

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thrown out about, like what's different under the new CBA.

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Speaker 1: If I believed it was parody, I would favor it

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because I love the idea of and I think there's

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a ton of parody right now. I really do think

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whether you believe that the new Collective Bargaining Agreement has

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accelerated the neutering of the transaction market. Or if you

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just think that teams are still taking some time to

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kind of figure out what they're gonna do, it's one

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or the other. But I really do think that that's

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the biggest offshoot right now. And it's even the amount

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of people that we talk to, like smart people who

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cover this for a living and are way more nuanced

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about the CBA and stuff. The degree to which they're

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still trying to figure things out almost terrifies me a

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little bit. Yeah, because it's just everyone's now making mistakes,

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which is I don't understand. It was convoluted to begin with,

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in the sense of, well, if you're a team that

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has a certain amount of salary, you're gonna have to

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factor in this player's bonus coming in, so he's definitely

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accounting for more money than outgoing. And they've made it

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even more convoluted. And there are a lot of smart

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people working in the league, and maybe they'll figure it

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out and maybe we'll get fireworks by the trade deadline,

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but like these big time trades, I almost feel like

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they're done in the red. Like Jimmy Butler probably gets moved,

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But like the A d Aaron Fox type situation, I

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just find it very hardly something like that gets remedied

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mid Like remember when Anthony Davis requested a trade in

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the middle of the season that eventually didn't get moved.

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But I just I'm wondering it feels like that's what

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we're dealing with. But do you think that I'm just

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kind of sensationalizing the currency of it all?

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think there's definitely something happening, but

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you got to weigh it against We're still a month

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out from the deadline, and even in years where the

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deadline has been insane, there's been that like January and

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you know, the first few days of February just right

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up to the deadline always feel like, well, is anything

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gonna happen? And then you know, we've had years where

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in the two hours around the deadline it's just chaos

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where everything's happening, and all the talk about like, well,

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seems like it's gonna be quiet or there's only a

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couple teams that are it Just so that's like always

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on the table, I think, but I do, so that's

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what you're weighing against the feeling that I kind of

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share that really, like, other than I guess Butler and Fox,

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the guys we've been talking about and everybody's been talking

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about in terms of trade candidates and teams that might

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make trades are like exactly the same as they were

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in August or whatever, you know what I mean, Like

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when we were doing a bunch of preseason centered thinking,

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you would have pegged the Nets as a team that's

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gonna trade guys, right, and like that's just been true

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the whole time, and like, well, the Bulls are going

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to try to move Lavine, Like he's been a guy

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we've talked about for months, and there's just not that

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many new additions other than the prominent ones we've we've highlighted,

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so like that is a real thing. I think maybe

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the differences it's it's been the same names since before

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the season started, and that's not always the case. It

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seems like the names we fixate on in other like

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pre deadline years, some of them or more of them

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emerge like during the year when oh this team went

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sideways and they got to rebuild. Like it's just been

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the same stuff since the summer, And maybe that's part

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of like why it feels.

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Speaker 1: That way with the exception of Fox again Butler Butler

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at Butler look at Yeah, like I don't know, one

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year left, so maybe it'll still be chaotic, But these

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the chaos was a little bit more predictable I think

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with kind of each passing years. Maybe what is it?

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Also the thing we didn't mention and like how much

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do injuries have to do with this? Like is Philly

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less likely to be aggressive this year? The same with Orlando.

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I think you could even make the case Memphis like

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kind of just the way they went about the door

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Afhony Smith negotiations, just kind of like they've been banged up. Yeah,

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they're super deep, and they didn't know about the John

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Moran injury necessarily at the time, but there's probably just

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the layer of skepticism among teams like that. Where's well,

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let's I mean even ok, see, they're not a team

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that I necessarily should think would make a trade, but

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they just have this all star send on the bench

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and there's only played a handful of games this year.

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Why would you make any of these major moves when

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you're either one worried about your team staying healthy or

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you're still trying to get really critical information about your

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team as currently constructed.

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Speaker 2: That's definitely part of it too, because you look the teams. Yeah,

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I think that's a good thing to point out. I

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don't know. It's always like a combination of factors. And again,

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we may get to the first week of February and

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things really start to pop off, and then the deadline

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is shockingly active. We'll see. But I think you're right,

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And now that we've talked about it, I do think

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you're right that there does feel like there's something different

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this time. It's just like it can't be a coincidence.

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We got a new CBA, like everybody's still trying to

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figure out, like how to a fault.

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Speaker 1: That's what everybody says, is that too much?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much?

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Speaker 1: We begin I was about to say as always, but

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that's just not true. We begin with Cam Johnson updates.

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I'll take this one. Cam Johnson's market is heating up.

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Grant per ESPN's Brian Windhorst. Execs around the league apparently

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expect Brooklyn will get more than one first if they

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move him. I don't know if that means two first

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or if they think that they want to take back

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bad money or if they'll get a prospect. There were rumblings,

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though this is per Michael Scoto Scatto of Hoops Hype

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at the GVUE showcase, that OKC is interested in Cam Johnson,

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not necessarily a new team linked to him, but like

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having the Thunder formally linked to him, that is a

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little bit new. They never let anything weak, though, so

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you got to take that with a doss skepticism. The

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Kings love more than them later, but they've been consistently interested,

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per Sam Amic of The Athletic, and the Lakers have

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also readed interest, but they are currently prioritizing Jonas valid

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Scheunas because obviously and Johnson for just some notes on him.

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He is two years and forty three point five million

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dollars left on his deal after this one. And he

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also did in Thursday night's game turn his ankle. At

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the end of it he was on crutches, but per

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Brian Lewis of the New York Post, x rays came

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back negative and so I would still circle him as

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a name to watch.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if anything, I think the injury just like

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we probably won't see him before the deadline. If it's

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you know, if it's like a two to four week

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ankle sprain, which maybe it's not even that bad. It's

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hard to tell with the information we have, but that's

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one where it's like the Nets should just not play

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him for several reasons, like not the least which being

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they will lose more if they don't play him. But uh, yeah,

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I don't know of those three teams, the Thunder, the Kings,

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and the Lakers, do you like or love the fit

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on any of them? For Cam Johnson, which is weird

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because he's the theory of him is he's like, oh,

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he's a value add no matter what I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's he's a universal fit. So you don't hate

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the idea, but I don't know that it. Let's use

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Sacramento as an example. He's not gonna be the acquisition

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that just turns around their season. And if you're looking

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at their season through a lens of a singular acquisition,

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I mean then you're thinking more of a nuclear trade,

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and so that I just don't if I'm the King,

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because of right now, you can't trade this year's first

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round picks. You're trading a conditional twenty twenty seven first

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round pick, and then what because that's not the only

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like in the Trey Lyles and Kevin Hurder, that's not

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gonna get it done. There's gonna have to be other

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stuff included. But he does fit on all these teams.

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I mean, are you a little I would almost rule

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the Laker they acquire Dorian Phinney Smith, and it feels

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like they might have expanded that deal at the time

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if they were going to get Cam Johnson as well,

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and if the Nets want more than one first round

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pick the Lakers, I mean, you're not giving up both

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of your distant first round picks to get Cam Johnson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that leaves the Thunder, which is like, yeah,

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you would love to have a dead eye, high volume

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catch and shoot guy on that team, and they just

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can easily have the best offer if they want to.

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I don't know if you, well, what do you think

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about the thunderfit? To me, that's like, of the options,

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that's pretty clearly the best. But even then it's like,

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I mean, do they think I don't know that they

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feel like they need to do that or anything close

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to it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they should feel like they need to

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do that, But I think, look, the framework there is

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Usman Jang and then Aaron Wiggins or Isaiah Joe and

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those two are trade eligible on January fifteenth. If you're

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the Thunder, are you doing Aaron Wiggins and Usman Jang

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for Cam Johnson?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I do. If it costs me to

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additionally two firsts. Probably not.

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Speaker 1: If you're attaching more than one first to that, it

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has to be a hard No. I might be way

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too high on Aaron Wiggins to be cool. I think

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we've established that on this podcast. But I don't know.

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I it's just so tough because Okay, so if you're

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getting Cam Johnson, do you assume that they're viewing him

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as someone who would be, if not a go to member,

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a candidate to close with them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing is that's such a high

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bar to clear. We've talked about that. I would view

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him more as like he can just occupy the Aaron

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Wiggins slot. Very different players, but like give him thirty

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percent more minutes than you were giving Wiggins or something

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like that. So I guess the answer is no, I

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don't think he just suddenly is a closer because I

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but you could, though, if you believe you've got sufficient

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defense from your other positions, which probably you do the

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value of him around Shay driving, like clearing some even

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more space for him. That's I mean, there could be

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some real returns there. So I don't think you definitely

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close with him, but at least you know, we're at

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the point with the Thunder where they're so good. It's

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just talking about like, well, what if he just gives

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them an option they didn't have before that they use

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in like game four of a playoff series to swing

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it like that that could be worth it to a

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team like them. And by the way, like I balked at, oh,

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if it's two first, I don't think I do it.

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If there's any team that can just throw an extra

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first in there and not miss it, it's obviously them, right,

287
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So like first for them is different than one for

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a lot of teams.

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Speaker 1: So if it was two of you, let's just say

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V two worse first that they own, which is probably

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their own probably, And then like what though, because if

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you're giving it, the thing with them is, I know

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not all their players are playing enough, but they're still

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good players. And then I run into it. So if

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you're getting Cam Johnson for usman Jang plus a rotation player?

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Are you just playing Cam? Like, let's use Aaron Wiggins

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as the example. That's twenty minutes a game that you

298
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could find. Where are the rest coming from k Aj

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Mitchell or Kenrich Williams, Yeah, or maybe less of Isaiah

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Joe At that point, it just and then it's well,

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then do newter the value of you know, an Isaiah

302
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Joe specifically. It's just it's weird because they're so good,

303
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and I do think they probably could use what Cam

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Johnson does, but I'm it's it's weird because I'm not

305
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advocating against them acquiring someone who needs to be a

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part of their closing lineup, but I almost feel like,

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if they're gonna do something that requires more than first

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round equity, I guess what I'm getting a is nothing

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in terms of player salary that they're including I view

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as throwaway. Maybe Usman Jang at this point, sure, but

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you're not gonna you don't view Lou Door or Aaron

312
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Wiggins or Isaiah Joe is throwaway salary, right Like those

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deals for Joe and Wiggins specifically are really good.

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Speaker 2: They are. I think I think everything's sort of different

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though that like the evaluation process for the Thunder feels

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different because you, yeah, like Wiggins and Joe would be

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like heavy minute rotation players for twenty six other teams

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probably like twenty seven maybe, and so it's like, yeah,

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that that's the value of those guys to other teams.

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Their value to the Thunder just isn't the same because

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they're not at that level. So like it's I almost

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think you have to view values in a trade hypothetical

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trade like this like relatively, because like I said, Johnson

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might be someone that oh, Dort's gone cold in this

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playoff series. And by the way, I'm only gonna talk

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about the Thunder in playoff series terms because like we

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just the regular season is done as far as they're concerned,

328
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Like we've seen enough, so.

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Speaker 1: There's not maybe Dallas in a seven game series and

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we did see it last year. To be fair, I

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just I look at the West right now, and what

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team has convinced you that they can touch Okay see

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with a ten foot po.

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Speaker 2: No, that's absolutely right. So that's why we have to

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talk about him in these terms. And it's like, I

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don't think Joe or Wiggins are guys that against the

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best like they could they could swing a playoff series

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if if I don't know, I'm trying to think of

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past examples where like Joe has two games where he's

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like seven of nine from three or something, he like

341
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Terrence Man's against the Jazz just has like one of

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those games and you win the series. For that reason,

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I don't think that's gonna happen at the higher levels

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of the postseason, whereas Johnson might just be consistently good

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enough at giving you spacing that he does like have

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a meaningful impact. Or I think he's just more likely

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to have a meaningful impact on a playoff series. Probably,

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And so for the Thunder, that's like the answer to

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the should we trade him for him or not? Question?

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If if it's like, yeah, he might swing game four

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in the second round, like then you should do it, probably,

352
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you know what I mean. Like that's reductive, But I

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feel like their analysis just has to be pretty different

354
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than a lot of other teams.

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Speaker 1: Is there any other team of ones that aren't mentioned?

356
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I know the Warriors, there's been reports that they were

357
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at least they've looked at him. But are there any

358
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kind of off the beaten track teams that you think

359
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should be a in on Cam Johnson.

360
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Speaker 2: I think you just got to look for teams that

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need shooting, and so that would leave you with the

362
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:28,399
Houstons and Orlando's and whatevers. Even though like positionally that's

363
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not that neither of those teams are like, oh, we

364
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need a combo forward, like we're set in both of

365
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those locate. I'm trying to think, like Minnesota needs more spacing.

366
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We'll talk about some of that shortly. It's got to

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be a good team. It's got to be a team

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with playoff aspirations. I think because you're not Cam Johnson's

369
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on the nets right now, they don't view him as

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a building block. So any other bad team that he

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went to that would be the same case.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Denver would be interesting, but them just getting

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00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,759
there is it's probably gonna cost. You're giving up a

374
00:16:56,799 --> 00:16:58,799
distant conditional first round pick and then probably have to

375
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,279
give up Julian Strather as well, and the machinations behind

376
00:17:02,279 --> 00:17:03,759
that are so complex.

377
00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:06,839
Speaker 2: I mean, slotting him into the MPG role and just

378
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,400
reducing the cost of that role has some appeal because

379
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you're getting eighty five ninety percent of MPG and Cam

380
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Johnson at like what half the cost basically.

381
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Speaker 1: So then if you're Denver, you're doing part of the

382
00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:21,039
value of giving up a young kid and a distant first.

383
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:22,920
But if you're the Nets, is that like if your view,

384
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I mean, if you're the Nets, I actually probably would

385
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,240
do that deal if you can figure out the math, right,

386
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,559
that feels rich. But you're not doing what'd you do

387
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,160
for MPJ and the pick alone? You're not doing it

388
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,480
for MPJ alone, right.

389
00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:35,000
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think you're gonna need a

390
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:37,279
pick because MPJ does make a lot of money, and

391
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:41,559
they do have free agency aspirations. It seems like or

392
00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:43,440
maybe they don't care if they don't care about being

393
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,559
the only team with forty million bucks to spend, like

394
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,319
which given the free agents that are available, I get it,

395
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,240
But yeah, I think there'd be appeal there.

396
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,759
Speaker 1: I do have a question about the Nets through this lens,

397
00:17:53,759 --> 00:17:55,559
so I'll get to that a second. What about Memphis?

398
00:17:55,559 --> 00:17:56,279
Did you mention them?

399
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 2: No? I think that's another one. Just more spacing, more

400
00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,960
shooting would be nice.

401
00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 1: If you're Brooklyn, though, you know, I don't think you, like,

402
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,359
is there an urgency to move him? You're you're officially

403
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,920
bad enough now, right, So you don't need to look

404
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,319
at this and say, well, we need to get even

405
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,680
worse because he's probably not gonna ruin your tank next season.

406
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,599
And I would argue, with two years left on his deal,

407
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,359
you're not gonna get exponentially more for him right now

408
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,079
with let's say two and a half seasons less as

409
00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,839
opposed to two or one and a half seasons than

410
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,960
you would. And I almost wonder, what if you are

411
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,920
bad enough next season, but you see the outlines of

412
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,880
a good team and you have all this cat flexibility,

413
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,119
and you know you're gonna be welcoming into high lottery picks.

414
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:37,880
He is someone who, yes he's older, but he could

415
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,759
streamline the offensive process for everybody because what he's best

416
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:43,640
at not as much as a motion shooter or some

417
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,599
other guys, but he's best at spacing the floor.

418
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's probably right about the urgency, Like, yeah,

419
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,160
he's not, especially if he's gonna miss however much time

420
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,319
with his ankle. And then like he's very much a

421
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,079
dependent I don't mean that in a super negative way,

422
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,759
but it's like he's not get in you three wins

423
00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:02,839
that you otherwise wouldn't have gotten from because of the

424
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,359
lack of talent around him. But like, yeah, it would

425
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,519
be a very different conversation next year when when you're

426
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:12,279
trading for a year and a half of him versus

427
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:14,920
just like the rental. Now we're like three years down

428
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,960
the timeline. So I think that's right. And it may

429
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:21,000
just be the case where teams clear their books a

430
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,960
little better or like just have a better sense of

431
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,720
how to maneuver in this CBA, and by next year

432
00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:29,559
your options are just way wider for like where you

433
00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:31,559
could send him and then the offers maybe get better

434
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:32,960
than that. But if you could get if you can

435
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,039
get to first for him right now, I think I

436
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:37,119
think you should expect to not do better than that

437
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:38,519
as you move forward.

438
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 1: Well, hold on, what about Pocom Dottier, Tyler Kohlick and

439
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,200
that Washington first that probably won't be a first round pick.

440
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 2: I mean, if Tyler Kohlick had had thirty six points

441
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,000
in both of the games he played, yeah, that's legit.

442
00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:54,279
It's pretty impressive double header for anybody that didn't that

443
00:19:54,279 --> 00:19:56,319
doesn't up on the Tyler Coleck news. He thirty six

444
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:57,920
in a G League game and then played what twelve

445
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,279
minutes for the Knicks that night.

446
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,559
Speaker 1: He doesn't get a Z one segment. I apologize next sens,

447
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,640
I actually want to ask you this because I was

448
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,880
talking about it to myself following the Doring Phiney Smith trade.

449
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,839
Do you make anything of the Nets trade so far

450
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,440
have required them to take back zero long term money?

451
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,039
It was something I circled, like put a pin in

452
00:20:16,039 --> 00:20:18,680
to watch to say, are they trying to be like

453
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,680
get aggressive or funky with their cap space over the summer?

454
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,119
And I think this player, Cam Johnson specifically would be

455
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,359
the good barometer for that, because if they wind up

456
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,319
moving him and it's for either a cheaper contract or

457
00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:33,160
another expiring contract, I'm gonna start looking at them and

458
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,039
be like, all right, what is happening this summer that

459
00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:38,000
you didn't take back any long term money?

460
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's something to keep an eye on

461
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,920
for sure. I think that the Shrewder, certainly the Shrewder

462
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,440
trade I think was made at least with some part

463
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,160
of it was motivated by we got to start losing

464
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,319
some games, and let's get rid of like the only

465
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,400
ball handler we have to our offensive initiator we have

466
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,759
that's not Cam Thomas, who was hurt anyway, and the

467
00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:58,640
trade went down. I think that was part of it.

468
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,559
In DFS probably had some of that involved, because you

469
00:21:01,559 --> 00:21:03,759
don't really why wouldn't you wait till the deadline on

470
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:06,359
any of those guys? So that the timing, I think

471
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:07,920
it has to do with trying to lose games and

472
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,440
maximize the value of that twenty five pick they got back.

473
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:14,880
But they're already among the precious They are already pegged

474
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,880
as the team that's got the most cap space, right

475
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,359
like forty million plus?

476
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,400
Speaker 1: What else did you try to do?

477
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,759
Speaker 2: I mean, if Sean Marks loves to have two max slots, we.

478
00:21:24,759 --> 00:21:27,839
Speaker 1: Know that, Like they can get to seventy five now

479
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,200
because they're getting rid of Dorny Venispi's player option. If

480
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,519
they depending on where draft picks land, that they own.

481
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:37,319
It's like if they took back it's just something. I

482
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,640
don't expect them to be prioritizing cap space. But if

483
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,559
they don't take back real money in a Cam Johnson deal,

484
00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:45,359
I'm gonna have there's gonna be that meme face like, hey,

485
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,039
what's going on here? Like, what's going on here?

486
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 2: So they got the twenty six back too, right, so

487
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,000
this this should be a two year thing. Otherwise, what right?

488
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 1: But do they do it as are they do they

489
00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:57,720
just anticipate? Could they be trying to read the market

490
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,319
and say they're gonna be some teams who are gonna

491
00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:03,160
give up some batshit wild stuff to get off of

492
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,559
bad contracts this summer I assumed we would get there

493
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:10,359
at some point. This summer felt a little quick, but

494
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,240
again depending on how Brooklyn acts at the trade that line,

495
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,039
it's just something I'm kind of monitoring.

496
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,759
Speaker 2: You've just sold me on that idea. That's that's the

497
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:20,319
smartest route, right, Let's be the dumping ground for a

498
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:25,119
year or two, like we'll take Zion like whatever you know.

499
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,759
Speaker 1: And don't jump the market like the Pistons did this

500
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,400
past summer where they like basically gave up something to

501
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:31,759
take on Tim Martoway Junior.

502
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think that's a great way to look

503
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,119
at it. We should move on. That's a lot of

504
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,039
nets talk, although they warranted it. We've gone on here

505
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:41,559
to the Chicago Bulls, mostly Zach Levine centered here. The

506
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:44,759
framework this is for Mike Scatto of Hoops Hype. The

507
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:47,799
framework of an MPJ and Zeke Nagi for Leavine Swap

508
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,160
is not gaining any traction. Can you believe it? Uh?

509
00:22:51,519 --> 00:22:55,519
P Scato? The Bulls don't want Zeke Nagi's deal. Neither

510
00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:58,880
do the Nuggets. Uh the Nuggets? Do you like when

511
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,000
I just editorialized on your notes? I love it all

512
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,279
this time on the Nuggets are worried about defense and

513
00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:06,559
don't have the draft equity to send nag somewhere else.

514
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:09,880
So it's just kind of, you know, we don't want them,

515
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:15,000
you take them stuck type of situation. So are there

516
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:17,559
which if any team should actually be going after Levine?

517
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:20,079
Like where if you had to guess, is he gonna

518
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,599
wind up? And is there a stronger chance he doesn't

519
00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:26,759
get moved? So that that's like that may be illustrative

520
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,079
of what you're talking about at the top of Like

521
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,799
there's just a general chilling, even among the names that

522
00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:36,559
have been there all season, Like it's crazy to me

523
00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:39,839
that there is a chance Levine doesn't move. And it'll

524
00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:42,799
be for reasons beyond the Bulls being stupid about stuff

525
00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:45,960
like this. It'll be because like the offers, like teams

526
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,720
are just afraid of the years and dollars, and it's

527
00:23:49,839 --> 00:23:52,039
just it's not how it used to be. It feels like,

528
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,039
so I don't know how you want to jump into

529
00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:56,400
either of those questions, but maybe just go with the

530
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,920
first ones, like if not Denver, since that seems to

531
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,079
not be going anywhere, who should be, Like on the

532
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:04,720
phone with Chicago for Levigne, I just.

533
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:06,799
Speaker 1: I want to know. I'm curious what the asking price

534
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:10,319
would be because depending on what it is, especially and

535
00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:13,240
we're gonna talk about him in a minute following the

536
00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:16,839
Jade and Ivy catastrophic leg injury. Like I like, I

537
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,720
liked Zack Lavine and Detroit before, I like him even

538
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:22,559
more now there I'm not giving if I'm Detroit though,

539
00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:24,799
like the deal needs to get done. I'm not giving

540
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,960
up any of my own for although I mean their

541
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,920
first round pick, what is it protected for this year

542
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,160
going to Minnesota, Like that thing might convey right whereas

543
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,359
it's still lottery protected this but like they're.

544
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,799
Speaker 2: Not I can't remember, but but the the Pistons are

545
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:38,880
like a real team now like that you know they're

546
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,440
gonna hover around five hundred.

547
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: I think top thirteen protected, so I mean I wouldn't

548
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,480
necessarily put but like next year's top eleven, that thing

549
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,359
might convey so but you can't trade that pick anyway,

550
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,880
So I'm not sure if I'm Detroit, I'm not trading

551
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,519
my own first round pick because now it's well, it

552
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:55,400
has to be in twenty twenty seven or later at

553
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,799
this moment conditionally, and I'm not. But if you can

554
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,160
figure it out with just money and give up, it's

555
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,440
probably too early to say in Asar Thompson or Ron

556
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,039
Holland and now like the j n Ivy of it

557
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:07,920
all is just. But if you can do it and

558
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,160
it's not costing you wholesale assets, if that's still the

559
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,000
asking price for Zach Lavine, I love him in Detroit.

560
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,160
I don't know how you feel about that.

561
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 2: I know I do. I wouldn't have felt that way,

562
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,559
you know until maybe a month or six weeks ago,

563
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:22,319
when it became clear that the Pistons are gonna be

564
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,359
you know, the maybe a play in team, maybe not,

565
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,440
but like the the days of them being just like

566
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:35,119
a total like I'm never gonna believe in this team,

567
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,079
you know thing, because these guys are also like we're

568
00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:39,160
a little bit past that. So and then he does

569
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,039
provide exactly what we all want have always wanted in

570
00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:45,680
support players on Detroit, especially given like if you're gonna

571
00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:48,680
keep Holland Thompson, all these guys like you better find

572
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,400
shooting and anybody you bring in. So yeah, I do

573
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,319
like him there. I mean then because other than them,

574
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,400
who are like kind of interesting, it's all the usual suspects.

575
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,519
It's like we just Orlando or just whoever you think.

576
00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:03,559
Speaker 1: With Orlando, I don't even consider them because of how

577
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,480
much money he makes. But they feel like, is that

578
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:08,640
the team he would go to and it would force

579
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,079
you to kind of recalibrate their situation the most? Or

580
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,400
does the Franz, Bogner and Palo Bank care of it all? Still?

581
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 2: No, I think I think he adds exactly like, he

582
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,599
adds a type of shooter and secondary creator that you

583
00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:24,920
have to account for, and they just kind of be on.

584
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,480
Franz and Pollo are great, and then Suggs is like

585
00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:29,839
trying to get into that role. Didn't he just get

586
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,759
hurt too? And maybe we'll talk about that everybody's getting hurt. Yeah, uh,

587
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,599
but I think he he brings something that they just

588
00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:40,279
do not have, and and I think that's you know,

589
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,599
the cost is probably probably prohibitive considering how expensive this

590
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,440
roster is like shaping up to be with Franz sugs

591
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,000
and and Polo's deals. But yeah, I like him there.

592
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,640
I don't know where else. I like him much actually,

593
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,000
like the Warriors couldn't do it without uh, you know,

594
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,039
throwing in Wiggins and or Kaminga and some other stuff like.

595
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,000
But I think the fit there is good because Buddy

596
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:07,480
healed is terrible now it's just suddenly not useful as

597
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:09,920
a shooter. I don't know. Do you have anybody else

598
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,440
for Levine?

599
00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: No? That I guess that's what would you He's not

600
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,359
their player. I probably wouldn't mind him and might actively

601
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,279
advocate for him to go to San Antonio if you

602
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:21,960
were able to get off the Zach Collins deal as

603
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,599
part of that. And then you have Kelden Johnson and

604
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,640
it's what is it? I can't imagine it would cost

605
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,279
you a ton in player or pick equity.

606
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like him there, not as much as somebody

607
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,559
else will talk about. But yeah, I don't know what.

608
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:38,319
Speaker 1: About I mean there because there are they still Yeah,

609
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,240
they have rooms so they can aggregate now, right? Oh no,

610
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,200
are the timber will still over the second apron?

611
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 2: Uh?

612
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: I don't look that up very quickly, but oh yeah

613
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,880
they are. Look at that they're Wow, they're well into

614
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,720
the second apron. Why did I just ask that question?

615
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,160
But he'll be fun on there just to Karl Anthony

616
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,359
Town's trade, but exactly being going back, I can.

617
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:03,519
Speaker 2: Send it back. Yeah, what about just the odds like

618
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,759
that he's not moved that he finishes the season on

619
00:28:07,799 --> 00:28:08,960
the Bulls one.

620
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,559
Speaker 1: I think I think it's more likely, not only because

621
00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:13,599
the Bulls. I think when you look at their record,

622
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:16,440
at least like they've played better than we expected. But

623
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,119
now I'm wondering, how does the Jimmy Butler of it

624
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,680
all impact? There are different players, and you could get

625
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:25,000
Za out, but can you get Zach Lavine for cheaper?

626
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:27,160
And I honestly don't know what the value of either

627
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,880
of those guys is. But I'm wondering now if there's

628
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,240
been you could argue, well, DFS is off the board,

629
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:33,799
Shrewders off the board. If we don't think the Nets

630
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:36,920
are gonna trade Cam Johnson, like Zack Lavine arguably becomes

631
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,440
the biggest prize we don't expect, you know. But there's

632
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,039
also Ingram out there and the Zion of it all.

633
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:44,200
I wonder if I think we all agree that the

634
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,039
books probably waited too long to do this, but like

635
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:48,640
he's semi rebooted his value, and I kind of wonder

636
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,359
if the Bulls have still waited too long to make

637
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:50,920
a move here.

638
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:54,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting because trading him now seems like his

639
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,240
value should be higher than it was, well, certainly than

640
00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:00,400
it was a year ago or any time between now

641
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,640
and then. But like it's so the thing that bothers me,

642
00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:08,160
or it gives me concerns is it could almost be

643
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,880
the right decision to not trade Levine at this before

644
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,480
this deadline, except because it's the Bulls and because they

645
00:29:15,519 --> 00:29:19,480
have like they have made the wrong decision in basically

646
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:21,880
the same circumstances several years in a row. Like it

647
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,160
feels like you almost have to trade him, even if,

648
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,680
like we've just spent time talking about, there is like

649
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:30,680
some justification for not moving him because the offers just

650
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,480
aren't gonna be good enough and he's good now, and

651
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:34,720
like you might the team might want him more next

652
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:37,440
year when there's less time left on the deal. It

653
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,000
would just feel, really you could, if you're a Bulls fan,

654
00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:42,200
you would There's no scenario where you feel great about

655
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,720
not trading Levine because of all the baggage, right.

656
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,799
Speaker 1: Would you do? You still we did like him previously

657
00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:51,079
on the Lakers, but yeah, yeah, you still do. Even

658
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:54,039
part of the thought process was you have that Dangelo

659
00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:55,839
Russell salary anchor, and so now it's what do you

660
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,079
need to attach to gave Vincent and Jared Vanderbilt and

661
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,960
Ruiy Hotchimore. And I think I would argue that those

662
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,960
are all three deals that are not viewed very highly

663
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,880
around the league ruly might be net neutral. Yeah, so like,

664
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,079
are you giving up an a distant first round pick

665
00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:12,599
and all of that salary and you can include more

666
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,680
if you need you to get I probably would. I'm

667
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,799
not gonna lie like them, but I'm just I mean,

668
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,000
I've entered my like nostalgic for Lebron or I'm not

669
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:21,880
ready for him to leave, and I want to see

670
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,200
him play in meaningful games.

671
00:30:23,359 --> 00:30:26,519
Speaker 2: Yeah that, and I think the whole idea like that,

672
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:28,559
this gets applied to the Warriors a lot with Steph

673
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,680
of just like you have to do it now because

674
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,480
the futures you know, who knows, with Lebron and ad like,

675
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:36,440
I think it's just very clear that the Lakers aren't

676
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,839
going to ever move those guys, and so that's your team,

677
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,079
that's your core, because you don't get a choice because

678
00:30:42,079 --> 00:30:44,319
they're super expensive. You can't just be like, well, there'll

679
00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:46,640
be our third and fourth options five years, like no.

680
00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:50,200
So I think the liv and Lavine just really helps them.

681
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:52,759
I think, especially with if Austin Reeves really can just

682
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:54,759
be a point guard, which I kind of like, I

683
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:56,480
don't know, the results have been pretty good so far

684
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,240
to my eye. Then just having another ace shooter and

685
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:04,720
then you're still like a pretty big team. I don't

686
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,119
think you can keep RUI in this deal realistically, but yeah,

687
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,880
I like the fit there. I think that's a good fit.

688
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: I think I'm out. I could see we were just

689
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,599
talking about what are they going to do with all

690
00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:15,720
this cap space if the Bulls get to a point

691
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,599
where they're looking to get off the money and the

692
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,799
Nets are just sitting there knowing that zach Lvine is

693
00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:22,039
not going to drive too much winning and it's well,

694
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:24,559
now we have zach Lavine moving forward, two top lottery

695
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:28,319
picks and still probably a bunch of flexibility. I'd be curious,

696
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:30,079
just depending on how much cap space they end up

697
00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:32,000
with this summer, if they would if he's still there

698
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,319
and my final question, is Levine on a different on

699
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,400
a different team after the trade deadline? Yes or no?

700
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: I think yes. It's just even though we've just said

701
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,640
why not, I feel like you've got it. They just

702
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,200
have to move him. They can't do this again.

703
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,279
Speaker 1: The Dallas Mavericks. Not so much trade rumors unless you

704
00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:49,640
want to use injury talk to spur said trade rumors.

705
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,640
But Luka Dancic, as everyone should already know, will be

706
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,480
reevaluated at the end of January, after suffering a left

707
00:31:54,519 --> 00:31:57,720
calf strain. However, PJ Washington suffered a right in east

708
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:00,480
brain in Wednesday's loss to the Rockets. I don't believe

709
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,759
we've seen like a concrete timeline for his return pending.

710
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,480
Dallas does have a minus two point nine net rating

711
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:10,359
with both of these guys off the court. They're in

712
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,319
the fifty nine percent island offense and thirty fourth percent

713
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:17,480
Island defense. However, their most used lineup without them, Kyrie Dinwiddie,

714
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:21,160
Grimes Nausey and Derek Lively, is a plus twenty four

715
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,799
point nine per one hundred and three of the top

716
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:27,279
four lineups without these guys are net positives. Do you

717
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:31,720
have any concerns about the Mavericks relative to just they've

718
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:34,279
been I mean, other teams have had worse injury luck.

719
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:36,039
Let me be clear, Like Luca has been banged up

720
00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:38,400
this year, We've seen some other people miss timed. Do

721
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,160
you have any concerns about them?

722
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: I think my only concern and this will dodge the

723
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,039
question a little bit. I guess the short answer of

724
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:49,359
like how they're gonna I'm not no, not in terms

725
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,839
of what's this mean for them, like will they be okay?

726
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:55,480
Or like does it matter if they lose? Like you

727
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,680
know sixty percent of the games that Luke is out, Like,

728
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,799
I don't think so. The only concern I have is

729
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:02,440
like calf injury, he's probably not running for a month

730
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,160
and then yeah, Like I think you made the good

731
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,359
point of maybe this gets him fresh for the playoffs

732
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,759
if he's worn down from over the summer and just

733
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:11,960
he tends to break down, so that might be a

734
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,160
blessing in disguis, But like, I do have concerns that

735
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,519
he's going to come back not be in any kind

736
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:20,880
of shape, and that brings injury risk back into the

737
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,680
equation right away. Because you're you're not in shape, there'll

738
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,079
be a long ramp up. So maybe if you're concerned

739
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:29,160
that they're not going to play well without him, even

740
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,880
though I think Kyrie has been so good that they'll

741
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,480
be fine or more than fine, the concern would be like, oh,

742
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,279
it's okay, he'll be back or reevaluated at the end

743
00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:40,640
of January. Maybe he's back the first maybe he's back,

744
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,039
you know, by the trade deadline. But then he's gonna

745
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:47,079
have a ramp up and so like the Lucless stretch

746
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:50,160
is much longer than the timeline we're actually talking about.

747
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,440
But other other than like some you know, catastrophizing about

748
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,119
like well, just physically, I don't like how he's going

749
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,720
to look for the rest of the year in the playoffs.

750
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,000
I don't really nothing here seems like a red flag

751
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:02,559
to me. What about you?

752
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:04,319
Speaker 1: No, I'm not worried and I don't think it. I

753
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,839
have seen some people talk about how this might accelerate

754
00:34:07,359 --> 00:34:10,880
their ambitions on the trademark at Christian Clark of The

755
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,599
Athletic reported that they're interested in ending an impact wing defender.

756
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,639
We kind of talked about that already, that that should

757
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,079
be their goals. Can you like, there's Klay Toms and

758
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:19,920
Naji Marshall and Quentin Grimes. Can you get like a

759
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,519
better blend of size, defense and shooting out of what

760
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:24,960
not necessarily a better player. I don't think that this

761
00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:27,360
heightens Does that heighten this urgent? I guess it depends

762
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,199
on the prognosis for PJ. Washington, which we technically still

763
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,280
don't have. But the Mavericks are one of the things

764
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,800
we talked about before the season, and we were wondering

765
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,840
if it was going to work in the middle of

766
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,719
the season based away rotations were being one, but it's

767
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,159
panned out. One of their biggest strengths is their depth,

768
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,000
and so I think as long as Kyrie we know

769
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:46,039
he's back, as long as they're gonna be like if Kyrie,

770
00:34:46,079 --> 00:34:48,760
like if another major injury happens to a Derek Lively

771
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,320
or Kyrie, I'm not wishing that upon anything, then maybe

772
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,920
we could talk. But I can't bring myself to sound

773
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:56,440
any sort of alarm bell here. I think that they

774
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,000
are still even with this trajectory. If you want to

775
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,960
be a little bit worried about can you hit all

776
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,239
the necessary notes? Sure, they're still to me like the

777
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,800
clear second best team maybe with between them and Memphis

778
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,199
in the West.

779
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they feel like they they're good. We've kind of

780
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,320
been on the kick of like they're just good enough.

781
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,920
Like they they they have as good as any a

782
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,840
shot as anybody at beating the thunder, which, like you said,

783
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,920
they've already done that. It's a little different this year,

784
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,159
but still yeah, I don't I don't feel like there's

785
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:24,199
a lot of urgency there. Your best player being hurts

786
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,880
not good that that can reconsize it, but aggregate it.

787
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: Grant Hughes of Bleacher Report says losing your best player

788
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,000
is not a good thing.

789
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: It's bad. Onto the Pistons. Bummer Jay and Ivy left

790
00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:39,719
Wednesday's game on a stretcher. It was turned out to

791
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,159
be a broken fibula, just like bad luck. I know, people,

792
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,480
I don't know. I didn't see this specifically, but anytime

793
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,599
a guy's legs get you know, dived into it's I

794
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:49,800
think Cole Anthony just slipped. I think even in the

795
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,039
reporting it was it wasn't like a it wasn't a

796
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:55,639
Matthew del Vodova, Like you know, I'm trying to think

797
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:58,000
who it's really just him that gets gets nailed for

798
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,840
that kind of Grayson Allen, it wasn't like any of

799
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,000
the uh like really reckless dives. So put that aside.

800
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,079
So for Ivy's portion of it, this is from Lucas

801
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:10,239
Safer as a I'm sure I'm not saying that last

802
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,199
name right. Uh?

803
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: That actually sad? That seemed pretty like are you too, homies?

804
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,440
It seemed pretty smooth as you were.

805
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: Said confidently, which is what you should do. And you're

806
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,320
not sure? Uh did you get this on Twitter? One

807
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,920
of the one of the Twitter injury doctors.

808
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:24,280
Speaker 1: It skeatd it?

809
00:36:24,679 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, got it?

810
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: Uh?

811
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 2: So Luckily says a broken fabela is much less severe

812
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,079
than a broken tibia or shin bone. Fabela is mostly

813
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:34,039
non weight bearing structure that primarily is for muscle attachment.

814
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:36,519
Ivy will still miss significant time. The jury could have

815
00:36:36,559 --> 00:36:38,480
been much worse. You see this in football a lot too,

816
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:41,639
where it's like it's better that it's a broken bone

817
00:36:41,679 --> 00:36:43,920
than like a bunch of ligament damage and stuff. Like

818
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,960
I thought it was his knee for when when I

819
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,880
saw the replay of it, So like, I don't know

820
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,599
if you can call that glass half full. He's we

821
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:52,360
don't know how much time he's gonna miss. It may

822
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,519
be a lot of the season or all of it potentially,

823
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:57,119
but in.

824
00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:59,639
Speaker 1: Some way shocked if we saw him again before next year.

825
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,159
Speaker 2: I guess the broken bone thing though, just does seem

826
00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:06,119
guys bounce back from that stuff. I mean, Paul George

827
00:37:06,159 --> 00:37:07,000
is a great example.

828
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, younger than Paul George was at the time,

829
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:10,679
for sure, right.

830
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 2: I think so, but not by a ton because this

831
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,280
that was like what twenty fourteen. Maybe when Paul George

832
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,480
did it that a while ago I think might have been.

833
00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:21,360
I think it whatever it was he was in as

834
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,519
early to mid twenties, I think so. But yeah, huge

835
00:37:24,559 --> 00:37:27,400
bummer Ivy had you know, was a guy we talked

836
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,800
about as one of the most improved players this year

837
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,559
just having the best season was shooting the ball, best

838
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:35,320
season's career shooting the ball. Great bumber for the Pistons.

839
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,679
Like that's just all there is to it.

840
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: You were spot on about the Paul George time on

841
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,599
August twenty fourteen is when he suffered that with a

842
00:37:41,679 --> 00:37:44,719
team USA. Yeah, I mean, he's young enough, so hopefully

843
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,880
he'll bounce back. I and I've been all over the

844
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,280
place with his fit and whether they should have him

845
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,079
around long term. But it was cool to kind of

846
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:53,920
you saw at least the pathway to him working long term,

847
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,559
which is something he struggled to do in the past

848
00:37:55,559 --> 00:37:56,039
two years.

849
00:37:56,079 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 2: So or just being a good NBA guard like that

850
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:02,960
was I think. I think, like, Okay, he's gonna stick,

851
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,559
he's gonna have a career, and he's probably gonna be

852
00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:07,440
a starter, you know, for a good chunk of it.

853
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,719
And that was not that was not a given like

854
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,320
a year ago.

855
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: We move on, no natural segue to that. But Golden

856
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,159
State Warriors trade targets. Will Grant care about this at all?

857
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,079
Is the real question? Stephen Curry, though, did call the

858
00:38:19,079 --> 00:38:22,559
team just very average after they lost to the Calves.

859
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:25,480
But per Mike Scotto of Hoopside, the team is still

860
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,760
trying to capitalize on his window because they are liars

861
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,000
targets that they're reportedly moditoring Grant, Jimmy Butler, brandon Ingram Nikolovucevich,

862
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:37,920
Kyle Kuzimcam Johnson, Zachlavine. No new names there. Their top

863
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:43,159
target is seemingly Butler. Is that the right call? Do

864
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,239
any of these names do it for you? What is like?

865
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: What?

866
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: And do you believe that the Dubs are still trying

867
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,480
to capitalize on on Stefan Curry's window.

868
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:59,079
Speaker 2: I think they are, but not at the cost of recklessness, because,

869
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:02,920
like you know, I'm I'm just gonna him and haw

870
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:05,239
I think so, Like I guess, the of the names

871
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,000
we have here, Butler is the guy that you could

872
00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:11,079
argue makes the most sense because he does a lot

873
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,440
of what they need as a as a main offensive engine.

874
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,960
The fact that he said he's opting out means you

875
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,760
are renting him, and who knows how he's gonna hold

876
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,559
up physically. Who knows if Stephan Draymond hold up physically.

877
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:27,800
So you're really gambling on this season on Butler making

878
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,559
you good enough to do whatever it is you need

879
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:34,440
to do relative to Steph Curry's like window, right, And

880
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,679
I'm not convinced that Butler gets them where they need

881
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,519
to be to justify losing Wiggins and or Kaminga. And

882
00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:44,599
you see trades that involve two first, like a twenty

883
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:47,880
five and a twenty seven, first Wiggins Kaminga, and then

884
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,559
whatever the rest of the salary needs to be. The

885
00:39:49,639 --> 00:39:51,760
Warriors have a bunch of guys that they don't need

886
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,000
to prioritize to throw in there. I just I don't

887
00:39:55,039 --> 00:39:58,199
think Butler is good enough to justify a couple months

888
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,880
rental and then you you probably lose him or worse,

889
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,440
have to pay him one hundred and twenty million for

890
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,679
two more years. So and I just don't get Now,

891
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,679
if it's Kawhi Leonard, which just not on the table,

892
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,079
if it's Kevin Durant just not on the table, then

893
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,000
then you have my attention because I think those guys

894
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:22,159
are both better than Jimmy And if you're just shooting

895
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:24,440
for like trying to catch lightning in a bottle for

896
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,360
the rest of the season, and then I'll both also

897
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,199
have longer, you know, more control. Like that's the level

898
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:31,679
of move I think it has to be, because I

899
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:33,480
just think the Warriors are good enough to wear a

900
00:40:33,639 --> 00:40:35,679
Jimmy Butler or Zach Levine or any of these other

901
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,000
names do the thing that you and a lot of

902
00:40:39,039 --> 00:40:41,440
people want them to do, which is like just go

903
00:40:41,519 --> 00:40:44,159
all in for Steph, Like I just don't. I don't

904
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:45,960
think that gets them there because I don't think Steph

905
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:47,639
and Draymond and the rest of those guys are good

906
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:48,320
enough anymore.

907
00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. And I also think with the

908
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,880
way that Jimmy Butler has been playing. You would have

909
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,360
to hope that he's sort of withholding on defense specifically

910
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,119
because when we talked about because I think we just

911
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:01,119
talked about the Dubs and Jimmy Butler previously, and one

912
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:03,559
of the biggest hang ups for me, I'm never gonna

913
00:41:03,559 --> 00:41:06,599
be in on COMINGO, Like people just they marry that

914
00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:08,920
guy's trajectory after like two or three games on like

915
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,000
any other player, and you're never gonna be as.

916
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: In on him as I am, like three days out

917
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,480
of every week four I'm ready to just like shoot

918
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:16,199
him into space.

919
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,119
Speaker 1: But the idea of having to give up Andrew Wiggins,

920
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,719
it's like, and it should in theory, it shouldn't be.

921
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,679
But Jimmy Butler's thirty five, and if you don't think

922
00:41:23,679 --> 00:41:25,599
he is he what he was on defense, there's just

923
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,599
no way to get him without including Draymond or Andrew

924
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:31,159
Wiggins in there, And so it feels like almost a

925
00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:35,000
non starter. Is there like any you mentioned, Is there

926
00:41:35,039 --> 00:41:37,519
any of them? Like does it Cam Johnson or if

927
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:39,679
you could just get brandon Ingram for some type of stuff,

928
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,920
Like if you could get to a brandon Ingram trade

929
00:41:42,159 --> 00:41:45,599
without including Wiggins or Draymond and you probably could financially speaking,

930
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,199
Is that, like, is that the type of rental or

931
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,159
just non nuclear move that you would like.

932
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: That's much closer to something I think you could justify.

933
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,480
I think then you're still on the in the position

934
00:41:57,519 --> 00:41:59,639
of like we need to we probably need to be

935
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,920
the team that pays Ingram right, and like it's it's

936
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,320
possible that that market might not actually it might not

937
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,519
be as difficult as it seems to come out on

938
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:09,679
top of that market and still be short of the

939
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,760
like max level money he wants because unless he goes

940
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,719
to Brooklyn or whatever, like you're you know, I think

941
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,480
you can you could make that work. I just yeah,

942
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,639
I so yes. I think that gets you a lot

943
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:25,880
closer to something I think would make sense from the

944
00:42:26,039 --> 00:42:30,039
organization's perspective, and that the people that like ownership seems

945
00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:32,280
to be making a lot of you know, which is

946
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:34,679
that's what ownership should do, is be in charge, like

947
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,480
that's you bought the team, you get to do this.

948
00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:39,719
It really feels like they're just they are like the

949
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,960
fans that anytime Kaminga has a good quarter, it's like,

950
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,320
we can't trade this guy, like he's he's our future.

951
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:46,679
Speaker 1: Call him a future superstar.

952
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 2: Draymond can't stop talking about it. It's like we all

953
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,079
see it. We see the flashes you got to talk

954
00:42:51,079 --> 00:42:53,679
about when he misses five rotations in a row, like

955
00:42:54,159 --> 00:42:56,760
all this other stuff. Draymond is the best hype man

956
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,599
for cominga you could possibly ask for.

957
00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: What is your And we've talked in circles about this

958
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,239
on repeated occasion, so you're just more so, this is

959
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,400
what they have and maybe they could catch some sort

960
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:09,920
of lightning in a bottle with it. Or if you

961
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,039
could make a trade that doesn't cost you a first

962
00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:14,920
round pick or maybe a first round pick beyond this

963
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,199
year to slightly upgrade the rotation, that's the better route

964
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,559
to go, or even just waiting for I mean, it's

965
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:23,400
weird that we're not talking about it, and there's like

966
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:26,440
murmurings that the vibes in Phoenix are probably just absolutely terrible,

967
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,679
Like why isn't Kevin Brown trade Balk right now?

968
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 2: Like that I wrote something preseason of just like that's

969
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,320
the guy that and it makes all the sense in

970
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,960
the world because especially this is my favorite angle of

971
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,639
it is that Durant was never happy because he didn't

972
00:43:40,679 --> 00:43:43,159
like the feeling that people viewed him as like bandwagon

973
00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:45,280
hopping or coming into a team that's already set, like

974
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:47,679
this time he would be saving the team, like it

975
00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:50,000
would be him coming in to like be the hero,

976
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,400
and he would be loved for that if things went

977
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,079
really well. So that has a lot of like narrative

978
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:56,719
appeal to me and maybe to him. I don't know

979
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:58,320
who knows what he actually cares about.

980
00:43:58,679 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: Can I ask it unscheduled question though about the Phoenix Suttons?

981
00:44:02,199 --> 00:44:02,519
Speaker 2: Please do?

982
00:44:02,679 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: At what point if it's and we mentioned which I

983
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,559
haven't seen or heard mentioned a lot like if you

984
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:09,639
could turn Ryan Done into just a first round pick

985
00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:11,920
from somebody, the idea of getting Bradley be able to

986
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,880
wave his no trade clause for two first round picks.

987
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:16,760
At what point, though, do you look at your team

988
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,199
and say, we're outside of the play in right now,

989
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,760
Yes they're close, but we're almost midway through the season

990
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,079
and you're outside of the play and that's just anecdotally

991
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,519
not where you're supposed to be. And it doesn't feel

992
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:31,039
like there's an easy pathway to title contention, even if

993
00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:34,800
it's not a decision they actively make at like, is

994
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,679
there a chance that Kevin Durant asked for out or

995
00:44:38,679 --> 00:44:41,519
that there's a Kevin Durant trade mid season. We all

996
00:44:41,519 --> 00:44:43,840
said it wouldn't happen mid season. The last time he

997
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,000
got moved to No, that's an off season thing, and

998
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,280
then he got moved anyway. Now he was applying pressure there.

999
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,480
But if you're Phoenix and he's talking about like I

1000
00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:52,039
don't really know if I'm going to sign an extension

1001
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:54,440
this summer like you all seem to think I'm going to,

1002
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,159
and he has the one year left on his contract,

1003
00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:59,320
is that a storyline that's not like almost a Jimmy

1004
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,280
Butler to PHOENI rumors have kind of masked the fact

1005
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,920
that should this team be like wondering what's gonna happen

1006
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,800
with Kevin Durant.

1007
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: I think they should trade him now, I think, And

1008
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,639
you could have made the case to me. I think

1009
00:45:10,639 --> 00:45:12,119
I did make the case that there was a lot

1010
00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:14,320
of logic to it before the season started, because like

1011
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,639
how many different reasons. One, if Kevin Durant is on

1012
00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:20,920
the market, he's by far the best. I think he's

1013
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,679
the most appealing trade candidate out there right, Like you're

1014
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,360
gonna take him over Butler and over Ingram and over Levine,

1015
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,039
Like you're getting more for him than any of those

1016
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:29,440
guys one and two.

1017
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: Some teams the market for them would him even though

1018
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,400
he's older and the salary's substantial. Could you see a

1019
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,519
team not saying they would, but like couldn't you just

1020
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,480
see the Spurs and like, yeah, we'll go after him.

1021
00:45:40,559 --> 00:45:43,280
You can't really say that about Jimmy Butler or Zacht Leavine.

1022
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: With that, I think that's right. And I think like

1023
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,119
your if your Phoenix, you're you're looking at the landscape

1024
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:53,039
and saying like not only like forget being on the

1025
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:57,119
same level as as Oka, see Dallas, Memphis, whatever, We're

1026
00:45:57,159 --> 00:45:59,960
like not even at the top of the Lakers Warriors,

1027
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,639
like you know, aging, not not contending heap, Like we're

1028
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,599
somewhere towards the bottom of that group, and like the

1029
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,639
path to getting higher in that you know class is

1030
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:13,639
just like is what you know? I don't see there's

1031
00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:16,920
no way. So like Phoenix clearly has and like if

1032
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,679
you have mortgaged your future to the extent the Suns have,

1033
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,880
it has to be for a contender, and you're not

1034
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,159
a contender, So like pull the ripcord now and maybe

1035
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:27,639
make the back half of this decade not one of

1036
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:30,519
the worst we've ever seen a team have, so like

1037
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:33,320
you can always rely on well, if it really goes sideways,

1038
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,639
we'll trade Devin Booker and we'll get somebody half of

1039
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,719
somebody's decades worth of draft picks coming back. But you

1040
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,960
could get close to that for Durant now, and you

1041
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,400
can rebuild around Booker if you want to. Like, I

1042
00:46:44,639 --> 00:46:47,119
don't know, I think the time to move Durant has

1043
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,840
been like I don't know that they should have acquired

1044
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,960
him in the first place, actually, but like, given what

1045
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,119
it costs, so yeah, I think you move him now

1046
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:56,079
if you can. You have the best guy on the market.

1047
00:46:56,159 --> 00:46:58,599
You take charge of the trade deadline if you put

1048
00:46:58,639 --> 00:46:59,159
him out there.

1049
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: But where do you go from because your first call,

1050
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,280
I think, and we're about to talk about them, is

1051
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,559
to Houston and say, hey, you want to give us

1052
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:07,239
those two first round picks back that you own out

1053
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,719
right of ours basically, and they were gonna say no,

1054
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,119
I would assume. And then what do you do Though

1055
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:15,039
you trade Kevin Durant, you get another team's draft you

1056
00:47:15,039 --> 00:47:18,280
don't have yours. Is the move then to call Houston

1057
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,400
back and say how many of our first can we

1058
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:21,400
get for Devin Booker?

1059
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:24,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I do think the way Brooklyn has

1060
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:28,360
operated has has made and like the I don't know

1061
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,880
to you like Atlanta, the position Atlanta's in is tied

1062
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,679
to this too. Of like, if you can't get your

1063
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:37,079
own first back, there's it's real rough to just go

1064
00:47:37,159 --> 00:47:39,920
through a bunch of losing seasons because you're not getting

1065
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,480
the ultimate payoff. But sometimes you're just in the spot

1066
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,119
you're in and you can't do that, and you got

1067
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:45,960
to do the second best thing, which is get somebody

1068
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,199
else's picks or add some flexibility, do all the other

1069
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,920
stuff that falls short of you know, option one, which

1070
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,000
is retake control of your bad seasons by getting your

1071
00:47:55,039 --> 00:47:58,920
picks back. So I mean, also, if you called Houston

1072
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,840
and said, do you want Kevin Durant, I think I

1073
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,559
think they would react pretty different. They would for him.

1074
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,719
They would reevaluate there we don't want to make a

1075
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,840
trade stance much more thoroughly than they would if it

1076
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,480
were anybody else that's like actually on the market.

1077
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: Ultimately, though, doesn't this feel like it would have to

1078
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,840
be a Kevin Durant mandate again, rather like Phoenix is

1079
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,719
not gonna actively make this decision on its own, and

1080
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,119
I'm just maybe James Jones in a vacuum might There's

1081
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,320
no way team owner Matt Ishbia is going to like,

1082
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,880
I can't envision the team being the ones to initiate

1083
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:36,159
kind of how pat Riley flipped the pressure back up,

1084
00:48:36,199 --> 00:48:38,480
like you want out formally asked for it and then

1085
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,000
this is gonna be on you. It doesn't matter. They

1086
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:42,559
might have newd his trade value in the process, but whatever.

1087
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,800
And I'm not saying Phoenix is playing this dare game

1088
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,719
with Kevin Durant, but I can't. And you very rarely

1089
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,960
see like look at Portland and Dame like that they

1090
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:53,840
kind of wait. It's I don't know. I'm in favor

1091
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,199
of franchises, especially when it comes to the older guys,

1092
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:57,840
not you know, you can talk about are you getting

1093
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,159
rid of youngsters or giving up on them too early,

1094
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,280
But when it's Kevin Durant and you know what he is,

1095
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,119
but where your franchise is headed, it's sort of like

1096
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,039
teams need to be more proactive in that type of situation.

1097
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,480
I just don't think Phoenix would move Kevin Durant without

1098
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:14,400
Kevin Durant kind of forcing their hand.

1099
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 2: And that's stupid because it is coming. Like that is

1100
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,639
how Kevin Durant's tenures with teams end is he asks,

1101
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,239
he like gets up unhappy and he wants to move,

1102
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:27,039
and sometimes he makes multiple formal trade requests before it's

1103
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:29,679
so like you need to as the sun's be eyes

1104
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,119
open here and like, if this is how good you

1105
00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:34,719
are for another year, like what do you of course

1106
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,360
that's what's gonna happen, Like he's gonna that's you should

1107
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:41,239
you should assume a Durant trade request is coming. And

1108
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,599
he wouldn't be wrong because this team isn't going anywhere

1109
00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:45,480
and he's at the end of his career. So like

1110
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,920
you should proactively address that. I just I agree with you.

1111
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,679
I think you have to act as if it's coming

1112
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:51,559
and get out ahead of it.

1113
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:54,199
Speaker 1: And this does feel like one of those situations where

1114
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:55,920
you and I talk a lot about when it gets

1115
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,000
to the Iron Fox, it's that's probably a decision I

1116
00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:01,639
might wait on until the offseason. You don't do that

1117
00:50:01,679 --> 00:50:04,760
with Kevin Durant because forget about the time left on

1118
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,440
the contract, because I just don't view these I don't

1119
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,000
view unless you're getting Jimmy Butler for pennies on the dollar.

1120
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:12,519
I don't think anyone's acquiring Jimmy Butler with the intention

1121
00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:14,880
of him being a rental like you have. We know

1122
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,840
how this works. Behind the scenes. You have an idea

1123
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,079
of whether these guys are going to stay. It's more

1124
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,079
so just I mean, Kevin Durant is thirty, was he

1125
00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:24,639
thirty five, this age thirty six season, whatever it is.

1126
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,679
You don't like, you're not guaranteed this version of Kevin

1127
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,719
Rant all the time. So he's playing like this now.

1128
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:32,559
And I think teams either in the heat of the

1129
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:35,440
moment or just really trying to capitalize on this window specifically,

1130
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,079
you might lose some of those squads if you wait

1131
00:50:39,159 --> 00:50:41,000
until the offseason or you wait for Kevin Durant to

1132
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:42,400
force your hand over the offseason.

1133
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think any team that's looking at Butler and

1134
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:47,320
saying like he might be the piece, right, We'll take

1135
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,480
on all the risks that come with him would look

1136
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:53,119
at Durant and say he's just better, Like, even if

1137
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:56,320
the risks are similar, well, he's just good. The ceiling

1138
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:58,199
he gives us is just higher than Butler. I don't

1139
00:50:58,199 --> 00:51:01,119
know if that's necessarily true. Probably is, but I feel like

1140
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:01,760
that's how.

1141
00:51:01,639 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: Agree with thinking, Well, if you're looking at it, I mean,

1142
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,119
their contracts technically run the same length. This is that

1143
00:51:06,159 --> 00:51:09,360
Jimmy Butler keeps saying he's gonna opt out. Yeah, I

1144
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,920
think Kevin Durant at like, I think Kevin Rant clearly

1145
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,760
elevate your seally more than Jimmy Butler at this point. Yeah,

1146
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,760
So that's ah subplot to monitor. Maybe that look, we

1147
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,320
didn't think necessarily a second trade request was gonna come.

1148
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,079
What did he get traded two seasons ago? Now? And

1149
00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:27,400
it came? Another subplot to monitor? Speaking of you mentioned

1150
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:28,440
this team already.

1151
00:51:28,119 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 2: Mister Hughes, Yes, we have the Houston Rockets here is

1152
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,239
according to Mark Stein, the Rockets have no desire to

1153
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,480
make a midseason consolidation trade. That's because they don't know

1154
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:38,760
Kevin Durant available, no guarantee that they'll be interested in

1155
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,079
Daron Fox even in the off season. Is that real?

1156
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,800
Is that posturing? Is that just what you say because

1157
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,480
you're trying to preserve the vibes you have with this

1158
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:49,320
team and you don't want to have half the roster

1159
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,280
thinking we might be you know, short timers here. That's

1160
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,480
like a real consideration we don't always talk about Jalen

1161
00:51:56,519 --> 00:51:59,360
Green is easier to move over the offseason. He counts

1162
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,360
as twelve and a half million and outgoing salary for

1163
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,920
the Rockets, but twenty nine point four and incoming money

1164
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,239
for other teams. That's basically a poison pill situation. So, Dan,

1165
00:52:10,119 --> 00:52:13,519
are you because the Rockets have been pretty consistent on

1166
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:17,920
this front, do you buy the like we're good posture

1167
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,599
that they're taking And is there someone that could change that?

1168
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:23,480
Is there some is there a player that should change that?

1169
00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:26,159
Is that player Fox for them? Like? Where are you

1170
00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:26,519
on this?

1171
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:30,639
Speaker 1: So there's always a player that could change that. I

1172
00:52:30,639 --> 00:52:32,639
don't know if the Aaron Fox is it for me?

1173
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,119
Just because I guess if you're trading Reed Shepherd as

1174
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:39,199
part of that deal, then sure, So that might be

1175
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,440
a name. And Kevin Durant, that's really a fascinating one

1176
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,760
because he's just They've part of that steying report was

1177
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,760
they're really emphasized in getting someone who's on the timeline

1178
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,159
with the rest of their players. I buy this insofar

1179
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,519
as I really do believe that they view Jalen Green's

1180
00:52:55,519 --> 00:52:59,119
contract value predominantly as this is matching money in that

1181
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,519
eventual big trade, and that it's easier to even though

1182
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:05,079
a team might say, we don't necessarily want this deal.

1183
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,039
So that's part of the value that you're getting out

1184
00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:08,840
of this trade is us taking it on. I think

1185
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,159
it'll be exponentially harder to move Jalen Green as a

1186
00:53:13,199 --> 00:53:16,199
standalone contract than as part of this mega blockbuster where

1187
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:20,280
you're fined including picks or other prospects because you're getting

1188
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:25,000
back darn Fox or Kevin Rant. I really don't think

1189
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,039
that they're gonna do anything seismic in the middle of

1190
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:30,559
the year though, and I honestly we talked about this already,

1191
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:32,679
so everyone go check out that segment. I think that's

1192
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,360
the right call for them because I tend to agree

1193
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:37,719
like me saying that's what I believe they're thinking about

1194
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,760
Jalen Green. That's actually how I feel about Jalen Green.

1195
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,960
He just needs to be the outgoing money in that trade,

1196
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,280
and it's easier to do that over the summer or beyond.

1197
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:49,199
Speaker 2: I think a couple of things like Fox, that's one

1198
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,679
where it's like I do I would think about that

1199
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,880
if I were Houston. But again, unless and you probably

1200
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,079
will be aware of if there's team X is out

1201
00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:00,679
there with an offer, they're gonna get Fox, Like if

1202
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,679
it's the Spurs, probably, Like then you might want to

1203
00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:05,760
come over the top because you can't assume you're gonna

1204
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,360
do better than him going forward in terms of trade

1205
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,559
options you which you might, but I mean Fox is

1206
00:54:11,599 --> 00:54:14,800
an all NBA guard. That isn't That's the other thing, like, oh,

1207
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,199
they want someone that's in the timeline of their of

1208
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,119
their core players, So you need someone on a rookie

1209
00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:22,840
scale contract like year old that's going to be a superstar.

1210
00:54:22,519 --> 00:54:24,559
Speaker 1: That's about to graduate.

1211
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:27,199
Speaker 2: From that discussion, ye, right, but it's like good luck fellas,

1212
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,840
Like those guys don't get traded if they're actually any good.

1213
00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:32,400
But so Fox being what I forget how old Fox is?

1214
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,079
I want to say, like twenty seven, Like that's close enough.

1215
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:36,199
I'm good there.

1216
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: But I feel if you're Houston because you did mention

1217
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,280
Kevin Durant, are you more likely to make the trade

1218
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,800
ford Aaron Fox or Kevin Durant if they're assuming they're

1219
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:52,199
both available, Mmm, I think just Aaron Fox that Kevin

1220
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,239
Durant is still available for the Warriors.

1221
00:54:55,440 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 2: Onto me, I think like Fox is just the Fox

1222
00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:02,480
would be the one I would I would probably go

1223
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:05,079
for even though I've already said I think Durant raises

1224
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:07,599
your ceiling a little higher. But given what seems like

1225
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:10,400
a pretty low risk tolerance, Houston is showing in terms

1226
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,440
of trades like Fox is safer. I think younger you're

1227
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:17,159
you don't have to worry about a lot of the

1228
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,280
you know Durant stuff of like is he gonna be happy?

1229
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:21,679
How hard is going to be keep him happy? I

1230
00:55:21,679 --> 00:55:24,320
feel like Fox is a safer play if you're just

1231
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,159
trying to win this season. I don't know. Is Durant

1232
00:55:28,159 --> 00:55:30,119
just still a better player than Fox. I think that's

1233
00:55:30,119 --> 00:55:32,000
a that's a reasonable argument if you price in like

1234
00:55:32,039 --> 00:55:34,519
availability and stuff like that. But I think most people

1235
00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:36,880
would still say, yes, Durant, if he's healthy, is better

1236
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,480
than Fox and might be the kind of guy that

1237
00:55:39,519 --> 00:55:41,840
can be the offense under himself, and that makes this

1238
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,159
defense hold. I don't know I would think about it

1239
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,159
for both of them. Fox is just the safer move.

1240
00:55:46,159 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 1: I would say, do you think that Fox so in

1241
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,400
a vacuum even if Devin I guess it really doesn't

1242
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,639
matter because the salaries are so close. But how much

1243
00:55:54,639 --> 00:55:56,760
do you think that contracts for a team like Houston

1244
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,760
where they're not like they're not considered a mega nation anymore.

1245
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,760
But players like that market free agency is dead anyway,

1246
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:06,639
How worried if it's Kevin Durant, you're kind of just baking.

1247
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:08,800
The risk of you're not worried about him staying here

1248
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:10,519
is will he still be good in his age thirty

1249
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:13,199
seven ses? So like someone like Fox who only has

1250
00:56:13,199 --> 00:56:16,199
a year left on his deal, do you worry about

1251
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,039
that if you're Houston at all? Or do you view

1252
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:20,039
that as sort of inconsequential? Then how much does it

1253
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:22,679
matter that? All right, Well, he's about to go from

1254
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,079
Daron Fox next year, which will be the final year

1255
00:56:25,079 --> 00:56:27,599
of his deal, makes thirty seven point one, and then

1256
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:29,719
all of a sudden, his max salary, assuming he doesn't

1257
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,519
qualify for the supermax, will be fifty one million. And

1258
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:34,480
so now that number is jumping up at a time

1259
00:56:34,519 --> 00:56:37,280
when you're paying some of these other younger guys, and

1260
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,199
other young younger guys need to be paid. And now

1261
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:41,920
I'm asking this, but I'm gonna give you a second.

1262
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,719
Part of that is who are you acquiring that doesn't

1263
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,320
like you're not acquiring someone on their front The LaMelo Ball,

1264
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,199
I think would be the closest one you're not acquiring

1265
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,039
someone on the quote unquote, as ESPN's Brian Windhorse calls it,

1266
00:56:53,079 --> 00:56:54,480
the fun Max mostly.

1267
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 2: So, I think Fox is exactly a type of situation

1268
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,639
that you're you talked about before, where it's like, you know,

1269
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,760
as he's coming on board, like what it will take

1270
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:06,480
to keep him, and you're willing to do that. Otherwise

1271
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:09,679
you probably just don't trade for him. I think that's that.

1272
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:12,719
That's like that deal is done when the trade gets

1273
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:14,920
agreed to. I feel like, so I'm not I won't

1274
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:19,440
be worried about that. But yeah, Like so the type

1275
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:21,760
of upgrade we're talking about for this team, if you're

1276
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,639
not going to just go let's leave it alone, organic

1277
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:27,599
growth and see what this roster turns into, anyone that

1278
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:30,039
you're gonna add sort of has to be at that level,

1279
00:57:30,239 --> 00:57:32,599
at like a Fox level where you are paying fifty

1280
00:57:32,599 --> 00:57:35,559
million dollars for the guy. Because if you don't do

1281
00:57:35,679 --> 00:57:37,360
that and you just keep the powder dry and you

1282
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,800
let this team develop like you might, I don't know,

1283
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:41,960
maybe I'm in Thompson learns to shoot and suddenly he's

1284
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,000
an All Star and you know, all that, there's there's

1285
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:46,400
all these pathways forward for them, but if you're really

1286
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:47,880
going to make that move, it's always going to be

1287
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,400
someone that you're like not super comfortable with how much

1288
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,079
they're making. That's just where the Rockets are.

1289
00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:54,639
Speaker 1: I feel like our next team on the knocket the Lakers.

1290
00:57:55,039 --> 00:57:57,960
Rumors for the Lakers, that's unheard of, kind of a

1291
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,440
news dump here, but the Lakers are priority tizing a

1292
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,840
backup center. According to Michael Scotto of Hoops ye Yonas

1293
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,360
Valencunis Is they're willing to flip gave Vincent and a

1294
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,239
second round pick for him. That's very big of them

1295
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:12,039
to include a team a net negative deal in a

1296
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:15,000
second round pick for Yonis Dalunjunis, Cam Johnson. They already

1297
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,199
acquired Dorrinan Phinny Smith. They had talks with the Nets

1298
00:58:17,199 --> 00:58:20,119
about Cam Johnson, though, is he off the table now

1299
00:58:20,199 --> 00:58:23,599
that the Lakers have dfs? And then overall, I'm just

1300
00:58:23,679 --> 00:58:26,239
very curious, like what do we expect from the Lakers

1301
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,719
tread deadline approach? Are they just trying to fuss it

1302
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,719
because the reporting of we want to flip gave Vincent

1303
00:58:31,719 --> 00:58:33,480
in a second round pick for Yonas Valen chunis just

1304
00:58:33,519 --> 00:58:36,760
kind of screams we're fussing and fiddling. But are there

1305
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,199
any names out there that would force them to rework

1306
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:42,840
this strategy? I think everyone agrees that Jimmy Butler is

1307
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:44,400
not it. And then yeah, there are names that we

1308
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,519
could mention saying, Okay, Kevin Durant or dearon Fox, you

1309
00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:50,920
probably are not going to have the best offer in

1310
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,079
any of those situations. It would take and I don't

1311
00:58:54,079 --> 00:58:56,119
know who would have of any player in the league,

1312
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,599
but for the most part, like maybe he Zaclavine, Okay, sure,

1313
00:58:59,639 --> 00:59:02,559
but like Kevin Durant as an example, you would need

1314
00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:05,559
Kevin Durant to apply all sorts of leverage to get

1315
00:59:05,639 --> 00:59:07,719
Kevin Durant. And so, just what do you make of

1316
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:10,679
how the Lakers will or should approach the trade deadline?

1317
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: I think, I mean, I don't have a lot to

1318
00:59:14,039 --> 00:59:16,400
add beyond what we've mentioned. Is like Lavigne makes sense.

1319
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,760
I view them similarly to the Warriors, where even with

1320
00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:25,760
the urgency to win now, while your old players are

1321
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,440
still very good, if not the best they've ever been,

1322
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,559
that that's real. But I don't think the guy is

1323
00:59:31,559 --> 00:59:34,039
out there that they could realistically acquire that gets you

1324
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:36,599
into the top tier of title contenders. So it's like,

1325
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:40,239
as unsatisfying as it is, you don't just mortgage your

1326
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,079
future for whoever happens to be the best available player,

1327
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:45,079
because in this instance, like that guy's just not good

1328
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:47,400
enough to get you where you want to be. So

1329
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,039
I don't know. At least I'm being consistent with how

1330
00:59:50,079 --> 00:59:51,800
I'm dealing with the Lakers and Warriors, even though a

1331
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,639
lot of my Warriors analysis is based on like what

1332
00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:55,000
kind of team do I want to watch for the

1333
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:57,880
next five years? Bad? How bad do I want it

1334
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,920
to look if they do this and it goes wrong?

1335
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,159
But that's where I'm at, Like, the name needs to

1336
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:06,800
be pretty big, and Levine is kind of the cutoff

1337
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,320
for me, and I still think honestly, like pick wise,

1338
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,519
I don't think I don't feel great if I'm the

1339
01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:15,039
Lakers giving up all the first I can for Zach Levine,

1340
01:00:15,079 --> 01:00:17,119
even if we both kind of agree like, yeah, that

1341
01:00:17,159 --> 01:00:18,519
guy makes makes sense.

1342
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,679
Speaker 1: There, I would consider a first round pick, and even

1343
01:00:21,719 --> 01:00:24,440
that's tough because it has to be so far out.

1344
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, how bad should they feel if they end up

1345
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:31,039
giving two first or even one when they could have

1346
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:33,159
just had them for matching salary. It seems like, you know,

1347
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:34,199
less than a year ago, you.

1348
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,239
Speaker 1: Feel they actually could have done that. They should feel

1349
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,159
terrible about them, So, I mean, they should already feel

1350
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:39,960
pretty terrible about the way that they've built this team

1351
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:43,360
around Lebron and ad since the championship. But I think

1352
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:46,880
I'm with you. I see more urgency on the Warriors, behalf,

1353
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,000
because I think that they're still more complete than the Lakers,

1354
01:00:50,039 --> 01:00:51,800
and even though like the standings on any given day

1355
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,800
is going to reflect otherwise. But I am with you

1356
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,880
in the sense that I'm fine to see I think

1357
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,760
even if they went and got vooch whereas can you

1358
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,119
figure out a way you have two seconds as you

1359
01:01:00,119 --> 01:01:02,639
could trade I believe I think the Bulls would trade

1360
01:01:02,679 --> 01:01:04,679
foods for that. But like, is your matching salary? It'd

1361
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,280
have to be Vanderbilt and Gabe Vincent? Like, is that

1362
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:08,679
getting it done so you can get rid of one

1363
01:01:08,679 --> 01:01:10,440
of them in a second to get yonas Valncunas and

1364
01:01:10,519 --> 01:01:12,840
Washington looks at it from the perspective of well, Gay

1365
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,480
Vince's contract is shorter than yoas found tunis is. But

1366
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:18,559
then you you effectively what you did is you signed

1367
01:01:18,599 --> 01:01:22,360
Yonas Valniunas and are paying gay Vincent for a year

1368
01:01:22,519 --> 01:01:24,559
so that you could get a second round pick from

1369
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:29,599
the Lakers. Just a weird order of events. H I

1370
01:01:29,639 --> 01:01:32,000
would do that deal with on the Lakers. But you're right,

1371
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:34,079
I don't know what that like with Kevin Durant. If

1372
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:35,719
he's like, I'm only going to go to the Lakers.

1373
01:01:36,039 --> 01:01:37,719
If you're the Lakers, do you pounce on that or

1374
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,079
is that even You're more like I would be more

1375
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:42,559
confident that Kevin Durant elevates the Golden State Warriors to

1376
01:01:42,559 --> 01:01:45,760
title contention, then I would be the Lakers at this point. Yeah,

1377
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,719
they get trade for dorn Finny Smith and Austin Reeves

1378
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:50,440
has been balling. So maybe that's an outdated take, But

1379
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,519
I still think I don't know because you're probably giving

1380
01:01:53,519 --> 01:01:55,920
a Wigans for good. That's a tough one. Which team

1381
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,079
is better off with Kevin Durant, the Lakers or the Warriors.

1382
01:01:58,119 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: Oh, I've been on the that's given to the Warrior.

1383
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,840
I just just how how insane would that be? Wouldn't

1384
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,599
that would be the story of the season, Like that

1385
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:10,360
would be unbelievable. Yeah, I think like could even how

1386
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:12,679
do the Lakers even get to Durant's money, like, are

1387
01:02:12,679 --> 01:02:13,480
they just they're.

1388
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: They're half ruey Vanderbilt gave it. And the other thing

1389
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,639
too about the Warriors, there's their matching salary is far

1390
01:02:20,679 --> 01:02:23,519
more palatable than anyone the Lakers are sending out. They

1391
01:02:23,559 --> 01:02:25,960
sent out their most palatable matching salary, and that was

1392
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,360
D'Angel Russell as an expire.

1393
01:02:27,519 --> 01:02:30,639
Speaker 2: Yep, that's true. Yeah, they burned that one on DFS

1394
01:02:30,639 --> 01:02:33,239
and that kind of might indicate that's about as good

1395
01:02:33,239 --> 01:02:35,280
as they're going to do realistically in the trade market

1396
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:35,679
this year.

1397
01:02:36,119 --> 01:02:38,280
Speaker 1: By the way, the other thing too is there probably

1398
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,400
should be more of a priority to preserve their long

1399
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,559
term asset stash because they don't have as iffy as

1400
01:02:44,599 --> 01:02:46,519
I am on Jonathan Kminga. At least the Warriors can

1401
01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:49,280
kind of point to, okay, Kminga and pods and we

1402
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,599
have more of our first round picks. The Lakers in

1403
01:02:51,639 --> 01:02:54,239
a situation where they have fewer of their outright first

1404
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,840
round picks available and they don't have you don't point

1405
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,880
to Austin Reis, isn't young number one? And then real

1406
01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:02,960
tip to NBA standards, and then too like Dalton connect

1407
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,400
is not this bridge into the fuld.

1408
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, he's a silly, nice supplementary piece, maybe a starter.

1409
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,800
Like That's that's about it. Onto my Memphis Grizzlies. John

1410
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,960
Morant that right shoulder which was operated on. He suffered

1411
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,639
a Grade one AC joints brain in that shoulder. He's

1412
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:20,480
considered weak to week. Don't love that. I'd like a

1413
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,440
firmer timeline. Day to day is one thing. Week to

1414
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,119
week is that's rough. Fortunately, Memphis is a plus seven

1415
01:03:26,119 --> 01:03:28,840
point nine, has a seven point plus seven point nine

1416
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,880
net rating without Morant this year, that's twenty one hundred possessions,

1417
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,159
which is also another problem that he's been off the

1418
01:03:34,199 --> 01:03:37,079
floor for that much of the year. Their offense is

1419
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:39,440
in the seventy seven percentile, defense in the eighty first. So,

1420
01:03:39,559 --> 01:03:42,519
like the depth of this team and the style of

1421
01:03:42,639 --> 01:03:45,320
play just kind of is insulating them against you know,

1422
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,440
they've had several players miss time. Unfortunately, some of that

1423
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,960
depth is also about Santelle. Donald's got an ankle. Gg

1424
01:03:51,119 --> 01:03:53,599
Jackson still hasn't played, Marcus Smart got a finger injury.

1425
01:03:53,679 --> 01:03:56,360
Vince Wims Junior same as same as Jackson, missed a

1426
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,679
ton of time. He's got an ankle, Brandon Clark's day

1427
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:00,639
to day with the Cavs. Zach Edie is in the

1428
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:04,159
concussion protocol. Jake Larrabi has got an ankle, so some

1429
01:04:04,199 --> 01:04:05,360
of this is gonna this depth.

1430
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: Is not injured.

1431
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 2: Could you have just made the list of guys that

1432
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,599
are totally healthy, no problems. It's like Jared Jackson. I

1433
01:04:11,639 --> 01:04:15,280
assume he's probably got like a hangnail or something banged.

1434
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't.

1435
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 2: It hasn't mattered. Memphis is still looking like a top

1436
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,599
four team in the West, and they've had crazy injury issues,

1437
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:26,039
not to last year's extent, but basically nobody has ever

1438
01:04:26,079 --> 01:04:29,920
had them to that extent. They're not a team We've

1439
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:32,320
talked a ton about just to keep it in context

1440
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:36,119
of like trade deadline stuff, very much other than like

1441
01:04:36,239 --> 01:04:38,920
it could have done something for DFS. It sounds like,

1442
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:44,000
but when I didn't love the price, Does do these

1443
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:47,719
injuries specifically to Morant make you think they're more inclined

1444
01:04:47,719 --> 01:04:50,400
to make a deal? Are they good enough? I mean,

1445
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:51,719
we could just sort of have any kind of Memphis

1446
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,000
conversation you want to have here.

1447
01:04:54,079 --> 01:04:56,239
Speaker 1: Are they going to win sixty games despite all the injuries?

1448
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:58,159
That's the other conversation.

1449
01:04:58,400 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 2: That's part of it is like do you need to

1450
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:01,519
do anything or just kind of weight it out.

1451
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: I will say, I don't think this does that. The

1452
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,760
Ja Morant like that's the big one is yes, I

1453
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:07,360
know what the numbers say, but like if you miss

1454
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:09,440
Jah Morant for an extended period of time in the West, like,

1455
01:05:09,519 --> 01:05:11,480
that's that's not ideal.

1456
01:05:12,679 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: It's not ideal if your best players hurt hot, I

1457
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,079
say one time.

1458
01:05:18,159 --> 01:05:21,079
Speaker 1: So I don't think this increases the urgency though, just

1459
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:22,840
because the way they act. I don't think it's in

1460
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,519
the depth they have in place and how well they

1461
01:05:24,519 --> 01:05:26,719
play this season. I think they have the luxury of

1462
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,119
not being urgent, and they also need to approach this

1463
01:05:29,199 --> 01:05:32,679
I think now with and they probably already were with

1464
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,039
a healthy amount of skepticism of does it matter because

1465
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:39,119
is John Morant going to be healthy when we need him?

1466
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:41,440
It's not on the same level of design on Williamson discussion.

1467
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,159
I want to make that clear, but that has to

1468
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:44,519
be in the back of your mind. So I don't

1469
01:05:44,519 --> 01:05:47,039
think this team would have been a candidate to make

1470
01:05:47,079 --> 01:05:50,239
anything mega. That being said, the fact that it doesn't

1471
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,639
accelerate their urgency doesn't mean they shouldn't do any like

1472
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:55,960
sit out the trade deadline, because I really do believe

1473
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:57,559
that they're good enough to say and like you want

1474
01:05:57,559 --> 01:06:00,719
to consolidate your rotation a little bit and based off

1475
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:02,360
like when you look at the like we've been talking

1476
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,280
about wings for Memphis from the end of time. No,

1477
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,480
Jalen Wells, he's gonna be heavily involved in the Rookie

1478
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,400
of the Year discussion. I think we both had him

1479
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,159
in our top three when we did our quarter season awards.

1480
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,519
But like now, Vince Williams, who was undersized to begin with,

1481
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:16,599
has missed a ton of time, Marcus Smart underside to

1482
01:06:16,599 --> 01:06:18,400
begin with as a wing, he's missed a ton of time,

1483
01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:21,159
and Gig Jacksons yet to play, as you mentioned this season,

1484
01:06:21,719 --> 01:06:23,800
like you gotta at least do something. I'm not. I

1485
01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:27,400
wasn't join our discord because you get to hear me

1486
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:29,960
tell you how wrong you are all the time. But no,

1487
01:06:30,039 --> 01:06:31,719
I don't do that that much. I don't think a

1488
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,280
lot of our discord member said they should have just

1489
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,079
pulled off the DFS trade with what was rumored. I

1490
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:37,920
think he could make a strong case for that, But

1491
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:39,960
I'm also kind of like they were gonna give up

1492
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,239
two in theory of their most important shooters on this

1493
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,159
team too, and like spacing the floor. I know the

1494
01:06:44,159 --> 01:06:46,599
way their offense is run is unique and it's working,

1495
01:06:47,039 --> 01:06:48,840
but I want to see them get Like I think,

1496
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,199
if you're looking at the wing spot and you ideally

1497
01:06:51,239 --> 01:06:54,119
want a two way wing, but I'm prioritizing like a

1498
01:06:54,159 --> 01:06:56,840
more dynamic offensive player at this point. If I'm Memphis,

1499
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,159
then we want a three and D guy or someone

1500
01:06:59,159 --> 01:07:01,360
who's gonna skew all the way towards defense. And that's

1501
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,119
kind of where like a Cam Johnson for them would

1502
01:07:04,119 --> 01:07:07,000
almost be perfect, like they might. They're never mentioned as

1503
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:10,000
the team, not never. I feel like everyone's talking about

1504
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,559
OKC or the Kings, maybe because they've been the King

1505
01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:16,000
specifically most aggressive. Memphis just might be the smartest Cam

1506
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:16,760
Johnson team.

1507
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and more generally they're an obvious consolidation trade team

1508
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:23,440
because I think, like we do, think they're gonna finish

1509
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,119
with a really high seed. You're you can't play eleven

1510
01:07:26,159 --> 01:07:28,360
guys in the playoffs, like you just that's that isn't

1511
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:30,679
what's gonna happen. So that's not to say, like, oh,

1512
01:07:30,719 --> 01:07:32,840
these these guys that are playing well right now, like

1513
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,480
they they won't be this good in the postseason. It's

1514
01:07:35,519 --> 01:07:39,079
just like, realistically, you no team ever keeps the same

1515
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,760
incredibly deep rotation in a playoff series. You just try

1516
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,119
to hope you got the best eight or nine, maybe

1517
01:07:44,119 --> 01:07:46,679
eight sometimes seven if you get really deep into it,

1518
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:47,920
and it's the next.

1519
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,159
Speaker 1: Best three for how many how many guys as tips play, Yeah.

1520
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 2: Three, two and a half, Like it just you don't

1521
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,599
get the same value out of those guys. So obviously, like, yeah,

1522
01:07:56,639 --> 01:07:59,840
Cam Johnson is gonna give you more than you know,

1523
01:08:00,039 --> 01:08:02,880
Brandon Clark, Lukennard, John conchar or whatever. Like That's not

1524
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,639
that that's remotely on the table, but like I think

1525
01:08:05,719 --> 01:08:07,239
that's just the way they should think about. The other

1526
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,119
thing is like it's probably isn't the time to mention it.

1527
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:14,559
But like I think, if any this Grizzlies team built

1528
01:08:14,599 --> 01:08:16,600
around Ja Morant, who I think is going to have

1529
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,640
a very short prime because of like the things he's

1530
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:23,279
great at don't last, you like you might want to

1531
01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:25,800
incorporate a little more all in thinking than they have

1532
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:28,359
so far. I'm not saying just go nuts, but like

1533
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:31,159
joh Morant is only going to be this athletic for

1534
01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:33,319
so long and he's he's the injuries are piling up,

1535
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:36,199
Like you it's just you can't. I don't think you're like,

1536
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,399
let's let's bide our time till his age twenty nine

1537
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,920
season when he really peaks, Like I don't. I mean,

1538
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:43,479
he may still be great then A lot of things

1539
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,920
he does well don't have to do with athleticism, but

1540
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,920
most of the things that make him elite are physical

1541
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,760
abilities that just don't last. So I don't know, just

1542
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,239
just like something to like chew on if you're Memphis urgency,

1543
01:08:55,399 --> 01:08:57,760
you could justify high urgency and maybe a little short

1544
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:58,680
term recklessness.

1545
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:00,640
Speaker 1: I don't think this will make people feel about his

1546
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:02,920
career arc but I mean, he is playing well now

1547
01:09:03,039 --> 01:09:05,359
relative to what we seen in years past. But like

1548
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:10,359
Russell Westbrook's athleticism has endured quite a bit, wouldn't you

1549
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:11,119
say pretty well?

1550
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 2: And I think you would say it's yeah to Devil's advocate,

1551
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,520
like he is the caliber of athlete that Moran, like

1552
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:19,399
was the caliber of athlete that Moran is, which is

1553
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:21,359
to say, like maybe the best athlete in the league

1554
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:25,079
just like run and jump ability. He's the exception though,

1555
01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:27,079
like it's just and and if you want to bring

1556
01:09:27,079 --> 01:09:29,039
in the injury stuff, Derrick Rose was not the same

1557
01:09:29,079 --> 01:09:30,800
after a lot of injuries. That's the other guy you'd

1558
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:31,800
point to athletically.

1559
01:09:32,159 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: The other thing is John Morant. And I'm not insulting anyone.

1560
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,239
He would make this clear my body shaming. John Morant

1561
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:40,560
looks like a normal human being, right, He's still Westbrook

1562
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,560
was violently chiseled at the peak of Russell Westbrook and

1563
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:44,800
still kind of is. I don't know why I can't

1564
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:49,239
say his name today Russell Westbrook. Uh so, yeah, but

1565
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:51,199
I do support your point that like I do. It

1566
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:53,039
was even the same thing with Zion and the Pelicans

1567
01:09:53,079 --> 01:09:54,920
that they had no margin for error and they active

1568
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:58,399
like they did. So I still don't say I think

1569
01:09:58,399 --> 01:09:59,640
mam is good enough where they don't need it, and

1570
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,640
it's it should be easier for Memphis. No, you don't

1571
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,560
need a mega trade. You're not looking for a second

1572
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,079
best player. At this point, you have two candidates as

1573
01:10:06,079 --> 01:10:08,560
the second best player on championship team, either Desmond Bane

1574
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:10,359
or is it right now, Jared Jackson Junior. You can

1575
01:10:10,399 --> 01:10:12,680
probably argue is the best player on this team. But

1576
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,800
when you factor an availability for this season I hope

1577
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,279
they make a move just because I really do think

1578
01:10:19,399 --> 01:10:21,439
like this team is special, like the depth they have

1579
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:23,840
in their ability to navigate injuries as special. But it

1580
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,359
matters a little less when you get to the playoffs.

1581
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 2: Yep, what do we have now?

1582
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,359
Speaker 1: I gave you some of the depressing ones you had,

1583
01:10:29,399 --> 01:10:31,119
Jay and Ivy and the John Morant stuff. I have

1584
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:34,560
a little complicated one, so any Edwards. The Timberwolves lost

1585
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,960
to the Cavs and the Celtics back to back. Eh, excuse me,

1586
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,720
Thunder and the Celtics back to back. I would go

1587
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,600
recommend looking at it. Dane Moore had the full kind

1588
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,680
of interview of the day More NBA show, but Andthrey

1589
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,359
Edwards said after the loss, on being forced to get

1590
01:10:48,399 --> 01:10:50,279
off the ball because the way teams are guarding him,

1591
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:52,880
he said, quote, It's not how I want to play.

1592
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,520
Of course, I'm only twenty three. I don't just want

1593
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:57,600
to be passing the ball all night. But the way

1594
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,640
they're guarding me, I think I have to that is.

1595
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,159
There are a lot of things that you could say

1596
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:04,800
about Anthony Edwards, about his flaws and the decisions he's made.

1597
01:11:05,319 --> 01:11:07,520
I love quotes like this. You I saw some people

1598
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:10,600
killing him. You can't want athletes to be candid and

1599
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,880
when they say something legitimate like this is not toxic,

1600
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:16,159
this is not ridiculous, and you can't then pan them

1601
01:11:16,199 --> 01:11:19,039
for saying. So what do you make of this whole situation?

1602
01:11:19,039 --> 01:11:22,199
We've what team? I'm sorry, two questions for you? What

1603
01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:24,439
do you make of this? But first, have we been

1604
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,119
on a like who's been a more violent rollercoaster this year?

1605
01:11:27,159 --> 01:11:29,359
The Timberwolves are the field? Like, like, what's the team?

1606
01:11:29,399 --> 01:11:31,079
We've had to go back and forth on the most.

1607
01:11:31,279 --> 01:11:33,520
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, it's probably the field, just because

1608
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,159
I don't know what it is about the Wolves. I

1609
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:37,279
always want to just include him in the like you

1610
01:11:37,319 --> 01:11:40,960
know who we got to keep talking about as contenders conversations.

1611
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,640
Speaker 1: I talked about leaving out Denver, Phoenix and Minnesota and

1612
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:46,479
the discussions we had about contenders, and you were the

1613
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,239
strongest advocate of Minnesota.

1614
01:11:48,319 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 2: Looking at you and the no, you know, there's a

1615
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,680
lot of reasons to say that's a stupid opinion to have.

1616
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:54,880
I mean that because you said, like they just it

1617
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,319
doesn't nothing's clicked. It just this hasn't you know. The

1618
01:11:57,359 --> 01:11:59,760
defense was awful and that got a little sorted out

1619
01:12:00,239 --> 01:12:02,920
over recent weeks, but you know, there's a lot of

1620
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:04,359
reasons to doubt them. I want to ask you, though,

1621
01:12:04,359 --> 01:12:06,640
because I've only read this, did you saw the video

1622
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,600
of him offering this quote? Is that right?

1623
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:09,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1624
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 2: So is this another case where the difference between what

1625
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,680
you get out of it viewing him speaking versus reading

1626
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,239
it is is pretty significant, like in terms of tone

1627
01:12:19,319 --> 01:12:20,600
or like what you should take away from it.

1628
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: The tone was very conversational and he was I think

1629
01:12:25,119 --> 01:12:27,000
I want to say it was John Krasinski of the

1630
01:12:27,039 --> 01:12:29,000
Athletic who's going back and forth with him, and Dane

1631
01:12:29,039 --> 01:12:31,399
might have asked one of the questions too, like it

1632
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:33,640
was no one forced him to go there, but there

1633
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,039
was a back and forth where like this wasn't he

1634
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:37,399
went on this long dat.

1635
01:12:37,199 --> 01:12:41,520
Speaker 2: Tribe unprompted, Okay, but it's it's like it's a lot

1636
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,399
like the previous instance where I can't now I can't

1637
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:46,680
even remember, but where he was like saying, we're you know,

1638
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,640
talking about like we're not friends out there like we

1639
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,720
you know, the what was it like we were being

1640
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,000
also saying that kind of thing.

1641
01:12:55,239 --> 01:12:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. He also one time said he was shocked to

1642
01:12:57,039 --> 01:12:59,640
see Julius Randall play defense. Yeah, And if you watch

1643
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,119
the exchange and Julius Rendal's standing right there like he

1644
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:04,199
was being honest.

1645
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,560
Speaker 2: But he's like though, right, like yeah, which you can

1646
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,720
only do if your relationship is pretty good. Probably it's okay.

1647
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,159
So my thought is like, show me the lie, Like

1648
01:13:13,199 --> 01:13:16,199
that's what he's saying, is right? Is correct? You watch

1649
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:21,560
any Wolves game and for me, I'm I'm marvel at

1650
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:26,119
like how well he's become, how good he's become at

1651
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:29,760
making difficult threes and how many threes he's shooting. And

1652
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:31,760
as I'm marveling at it, I'm like, this is wrong,

1653
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,159
Like this, this sucks. This is a symptom of an

1654
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:36,439
offense that is not playing the way that you would

1655
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,880
want it to with a player like him. That that's

1656
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,439
been a point everybody has made that's watched the Wolves

1657
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,119
is like, how are we not getting ant downhill all

1658
01:13:44,159 --> 01:13:46,880
the time? Like this is But like Rudy Gobert is

1659
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:48,119
in the middle of the floor and that's the only

1660
01:13:48,159 --> 01:13:50,560
place he can be and that is just what you got.

1661
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,840
And I think it's not just Rudy, but that's a

1662
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,439
huge part of it. And if you don't have an

1663
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,840
elite spacing forward, which is what he was last year

1664
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,319
like Cat then, and even then the offense wasn't very good.

1665
01:14:03,119 --> 01:14:05,319
This is just what you're gonna get. So, I mean,

1666
01:14:06,079 --> 01:14:07,479
I don't know, I don't know what the fix is,

1667
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,600
but it's pretty clear to me what the problem is.

1668
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,640
It's a lack of other dangerous creators that draw more

1669
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,720
than one defender, and it's a it's poor spacing because

1670
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:18,960
you have a non stretch like the ultimate non stretch

1671
01:14:19,159 --> 01:14:21,359
center in the middle of it all. Like that's that's

1672
01:14:21,399 --> 01:14:24,279
all it is, Right, They're just honestly credits to him

1673
01:14:24,279 --> 01:14:27,159
for like playing away that is kind of right for

1674
01:14:27,239 --> 01:14:29,920
this team, even if it's clearly not the best way

1675
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:32,000
to use him in a vacuum. Like I think Edwards

1676
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,239
deserves credit for Like I don't think he wants to

1677
01:14:34,239 --> 01:14:36,800
play this way, like pretty clearly, like he said it

1678
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,159
now finally, but like what else is it would be

1679
01:14:40,199 --> 01:14:43,399
worse if he were trying to just like run into

1680
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:45,760
brick walls or you know, forcing it. I think he'd

1681
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,800
be getting a bunch of criticism for that if that's

1682
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:48,560
how he were playing.

1683
01:14:49,039 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, his drives are to throw some numbers behind

1684
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,079
what granted, saying his drives per thirty six minutes last

1685
01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:57,439
year over fifteen this year, about twelve and a half.

1686
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:00,279
He's passing on thirty five percent of his drives thirty

1687
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:03,079
percent last year, which isn't that five percent difference doesn't

1688
01:15:03,119 --> 01:15:06,119
seem huge, but like it's a sixth of an increase

1689
01:15:06,159 --> 01:15:08,880
over what he was doing, and when the drives just

1690
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,640
aren't as high quality either. So last year you're looking

1691
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,119
at his shooting on drives, was it's actually lower than

1692
01:15:14,159 --> 01:15:16,159
I thought? Well, no, this year it's forty seven percent.

1693
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:19,720
Last year he was at fifty four percent shooting. So

1694
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:22,840
you're talking about fewer drives, more passing off those drives,

1695
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:24,680
and the lanes just aren't as open, and so like

1696
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,399
the quality of your drives is just down. I totally

1697
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:30,520
get his frustration. We've talked a lot about again, I

1698
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,600
would go back to that Championship Contender episode we did

1699
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,760
about how they could maybe rework continue to rework the rotation.

1700
01:15:36,199 --> 01:15:39,000
I'm starting to think though, like, is it just you

1701
01:15:39,079 --> 01:15:41,119
have to play him with Nase Reid at all times

1702
01:15:41,159 --> 01:15:43,640
if you want him, and then that what's best for

1703
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:45,760
your team? Or is this more of a have we

1704
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,520
reached the point where, yeah, there will be nights where

1705
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,800
the timber Wolves look like Capstock Championship contenders, But the

1706
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,159
makeup of this roster is just not going to allow

1707
01:15:53,199 --> 01:15:56,960
a balance between Okay, and has to cater to like

1708
01:15:57,079 --> 01:15:59,119
the strength of everybody else. But we can also find

1709
01:15:59,159 --> 01:16:02,039
ways to do a better job of pandering well as

1710
01:16:02,039 --> 01:16:04,720
a negative connotation, but like finding ways to unlock Anthony

1711
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:05,840
Edwards's best self.

1712
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,119
Speaker 2: Well, it's sort of like, I don't know the answer

1713
01:16:09,119 --> 01:16:11,760
to that. I think my knee jerk that I'm less

1714
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,039
confident in now than before is just like, well, Randall's

1715
01:16:14,079 --> 01:16:16,359
got to be out at the starting lineup, you go McDaniels,

1716
01:16:16,399 --> 01:16:20,880
de Vincenzo and Gobar and Conley. There's more playmaking there,

1717
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,119
there's more shooting, there's more space, Like that's how you

1718
01:16:23,159 --> 01:16:25,439
fix it. I don't know, I'm not sure that's the

1719
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:29,680
Like the magic bullet still seems like logically that makes sense,

1720
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,279
like that type of lineup anyway, Read is it could

1721
01:16:32,279 --> 01:16:34,880
be Read or Devincenzo, whichever, you just like get the

1722
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:37,840
spacing out there, I guess would be hard to do.

1723
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:38,399
I say it.

1724
01:16:39,279 --> 01:16:42,079
Speaker 1: Let's revisit the Julius Randall plus second round picks for

1725
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:43,399
John Collins conversation.

1726
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:47,039
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, I mean Collins is gonna shoot it better,

1727
01:16:47,119 --> 01:16:50,760
if not more than Randall. The thing it's interesting though,

1728
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:56,119
like if you just compare, say, like how about this

1729
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,680
is it is it fair to say that like SGA

1730
01:17:00,199 --> 01:17:03,680
ok in Oklahoma City has other than having a pretty

1731
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:08,880
good secondary creator similar like challenges in years past where

1732
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:10,479
it's like, yeah, the space thing is not great and

1733
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:12,439
he just has to like get into the lane, lead

1734
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:14,920
the league in drives and then like that triggers the offense,

1735
01:17:15,279 --> 01:17:17,239
you know, like that you get the drive kick, drive kick,

1736
01:17:17,319 --> 01:17:19,479
drive kick thing that the Thunder have excelled at. This

1737
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,680
year is different, but like it seemed like SGA just

1738
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:24,399
to compare him to Edwards, Like is it just the

1739
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:29,359
Edwards is not as effective? Now nobody's as effective as

1740
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:32,159
SGA as a driver or as like an isolation guy.

1741
01:17:32,199 --> 01:17:34,880
That's She's just the best there is. But like how

1742
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:37,920
much of it's just on him not being able to generate?

1743
01:17:38,399 --> 01:17:40,560
Like we're talking about like do they how do they

1744
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:42,640
cater to him? Like how do they make it so

1745
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,159
he's in a better position to succeed if he's the

1746
01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:47,800
guy that he started to be billed as last postseason

1747
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:50,960
as like next, shouldn't it be him? That's that's like

1748
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,119
finding a way to to like make this work. And

1749
01:17:54,119 --> 01:17:56,399
maybe that's what he's trying by shooting a ton of threes,

1750
01:17:56,439 --> 01:18:00,119
like circumstantially, that's just what maybe the Wolves need. But

1751
01:18:00,159 --> 01:18:01,960
maybe some of it's on him, like figure out a

1752
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,119
way to get downhill and like make guys better if

1753
01:18:04,119 --> 01:18:05,439
you're that guy, I.

1754
01:18:05,399 --> 01:18:07,079
Speaker 1: Get there could be some of it's on him, but

1755
01:18:07,119 --> 01:18:10,239
it's just so tough because Andy Edwards is on a

1756
01:18:10,279 --> 01:18:12,319
team right now where they can send three to the

1757
01:18:12,319 --> 01:18:15,840
ball and it might not matter. Oka see, you can't

1758
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,840
send two to Shay without worry about cot So. And

1759
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:21,439
there's like it's not even about the supporting the quality

1760
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,000
of the supporting cast, but the archetypes behind it because okay,

1761
01:18:25,039 --> 01:18:27,720
see doesn't really look at it's big, Like even Isaiah

1762
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,000
heart and Stein is not a floor clogger because he

1763
01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:33,000
can make decisions from the middle of the floor at minimum,

1764
01:18:33,119 --> 01:18:36,199
so you don't have that Rudy Gobert element there. And

1765
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:38,640
then you also like let's look at lou Dort versus

1766
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,279
Jade McDaniels, Like there are defenses that the lou Dort.

1767
01:18:41,279 --> 01:18:43,960
There's value in the volume, so forget about the percentage

1768
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,199
of he shootes, which he's been fined during the regular season.

1769
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:49,600
But Jadan McDaniels is just teams don't care about him,

1770
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:51,960
and they're also your second option, which I think is

1771
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,039
a bigger deal. With Kat when he would get go down,

1772
01:18:55,159 --> 01:18:57,640
go downhill, you're more likely to send two to the ball.

1773
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:00,319
Teams this season seemed like of the Timberwolves games that

1774
01:19:00,359 --> 01:19:04,399
I have watched so zero, I feel like they don't

1775
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,039
they send one to the ball on Julius Randold, and

1776
01:19:07,039 --> 01:19:09,800
it's just if Julius Randald's gonna beat us, then so

1777
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,119
be it. But they also don't care about his off

1778
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:14,039
ball gravity. And I would argue when it comes to

1779
01:19:14,119 --> 01:19:16,800
j Dubb we've talked about, Okay, it hasn't really translated

1780
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:20,079
into the non Shae minutes, like teams care when he's

1781
01:19:20,119 --> 01:19:22,319
open or when he gets going downhill way more than

1782
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:25,319
make care if Julius Randall is open or going downhill.

1783
01:19:25,359 --> 01:19:27,199
That's anecdotally Yeah.

1784
01:19:27,079 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 2: No, you're you're right. I was getting a little Devil's

1785
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:32,479
advocaty again, But like that, that's the thing, like when

1786
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:36,079
Ant gets extra bodies. So if the ball comes out

1787
01:19:36,119 --> 01:19:37,960
to go Bear, which is like who you probably want

1788
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:39,800
to double off, like he's not doing anything with it.

1789
01:19:40,079 --> 01:19:41,920
And if it goes to McDaniel's, like he's not doing

1790
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,920
anything with it. And if it's Conny, he's gonna just

1791
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:46,960
look for the next pass, which is gonna be to

1792
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:49,800
someone who's not gonna do anything with it, you know. So, Like,

1793
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,600
I think the Randall piece is really the one to

1794
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:54,920
focus on, because he's supposed to be the guy that

1795
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,840
if you guard him straight up or or even he

1796
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,000
has advantages because you sent multiple bodies Ant, Like he's

1797
01:20:01,079 --> 01:20:03,359
Randall's supposed to be the guy that's gonna make you

1798
01:20:03,399 --> 01:20:05,600
pay as a defense, and I don't, And like, I

1799
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,800
think you're exactly right. Defenses are like cool like that, Okay,

1800
01:20:09,079 --> 01:20:12,159
you want to get thirty seven, have at it. Your

1801
01:20:12,159 --> 01:20:15,199
team will score ninety four points and you can't win

1802
01:20:15,359 --> 01:20:17,520
like that. I do feel like he gets treated that way,

1803
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,079
and that's maybe the best argument for just like him

1804
01:20:20,119 --> 01:20:22,840
and AUNT like he's not making ANT better. Like that's

1805
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:25,479
that's pretty clear. I think you know so. And and

1806
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:27,600
I think Randall's one of those rare players that just

1807
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:29,399
is sort of gonna get you the production. He's gonna

1808
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:34,119
get you, regardless of supporting cast, regardless of how he's defended.

1809
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,399
And the question is, like, is that actually valuable to

1810
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:40,720
winning and so far with Minnesota Like, no, I guess

1811
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,000
it hasn't been. So maybe it's him.

1812
01:20:44,119 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: Is there anything too? Just to play off your point,

1813
01:20:47,199 --> 01:20:49,840
the cadence at which they would work on the ball,

1814
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:52,640
like Andy Edwards have definitely developed, like more change of

1815
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:54,880
pace and it's more methodical on the ball, But it's

1816
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:57,439
someone like Shay his archetype, or like look at the

1817
01:20:57,439 --> 01:20:59,800
pace that Luca will operate, or it's just like it's

1818
01:21:00,199 --> 01:21:03,279
I don't know what the word is. It's it's maniacally deliberate,

1819
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,760
whereas Aunt is maniacally abrupt. And there's two different types

1820
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,039
of players. Do you think someone like that is just

1821
01:21:09,079 --> 01:21:13,560
better suited to handle heliocentric attention than the way that

1822
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:15,960
Anthie Edwards plays? And that, to be fair, that's not

1823
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,600
necessarily a knock against Anthy Edwards. I'm just trying to like,

1824
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,960
if you put Shay Gilles Alexander on the Timberwolves, do

1825
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,760
you believe that they are better off, particularly on the

1826
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:25,439
offensive end.

1827
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:28,520
Speaker 2: I do, But that's just because I think Sga is,

1828
01:21:29,079 --> 01:21:31,960
other than Yokich, the best offensive player in basketball probably

1829
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:34,600
at this point. So like I think he's just better.

1830
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,680
But I think that's a great point. Like Edwards is

1831
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,680
someone who already sort of has a superpower that you

1832
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:44,119
could further juice by like getting him the ball in

1833
01:21:44,199 --> 01:21:46,840
advantage situations, like if you imagine him and like the

1834
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,880
Donovan Mitchell role on the Utah teams, where nobody ever

1835
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:52,039
caught the ball at a dead stop. It was always

1836
01:21:52,119 --> 01:21:54,960
while you were already running and you're coming around a

1837
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,399
screen with like a slight you know, window of daylight,

1838
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:00,039
Like he would just he would be unguardable if he

1839
01:22:00,079 --> 01:22:01,960
always got the ball in positions where he had a

1840
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:06,079
slight advantage already. So stylistically, that's for sure a factor.

1841
01:22:06,119 --> 01:22:08,600
Like if you compare use the Oka Ce comparison. Again,

1842
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,000
even in previous years, SGA was with like good cutters

1843
01:22:12,159 --> 01:22:15,159
and guys that like like Jay Will who would space

1844
01:22:15,199 --> 01:22:17,479
out to shoot threes as opposed to you know that

1845
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:20,319
the environment was just better in addition to SGA being

1846
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,880
just a better player offensively at least. So yeah, it's

1847
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:26,199
a combination of factors. It's frustrating, Like I do you

1848
01:22:26,239 --> 01:22:29,560
do get the sense, don't you that like ants not

1849
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,439
being the best version of himself that he could be

1850
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:34,880
and it's not totally his fault. I feel like that's

1851
01:22:35,039 --> 01:22:36,359
feels like we're losing something.

1852
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 1: And the final point here actually didn't expect to spend

1853
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:41,319
as much time on it. They really maybe it pans

1854
01:22:41,319 --> 01:22:42,680
out long term and I know he's dealing with an

1855
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,640
ankle injury at the moment. There was a miscalculation with

1856
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:50,560
the Rob Dillingham acquisition, and the miscalculation was either and

1857
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:53,119
I don't think they expected him to just be ready

1858
01:22:53,199 --> 01:22:55,600
right away because they went out and made the cat

1859
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,960
trade and maybe that was financially driven. But if they

1860
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:01,199
expected him to be ready away, they never really gave

1861
01:23:01,279 --> 01:23:03,600
him that opportunity. And so it feels like more of

1862
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:07,520
a miscalculation on the part of we thought this roster

1863
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:10,199
had another year of a buffer between and I guess

1864
01:23:10,239 --> 01:23:13,000
what does that fall on between Conley and Randall. You

1865
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:17,720
thought you were gonna have enough offensive contingencies to buy

1866
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:20,000
a year of development for Rob Dillingham and then he

1867
01:23:20,039 --> 01:23:22,439
would kind of take over demand the leading it in

1868
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:26,880
next year. Because I can't I know fans, and we contemplated, like,

1869
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:29,199
that's not necessarily a movie make unless you think he's ready,

1870
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:31,520
Like we always you and I I know we're on

1871
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:33,399
the same page with this. We're always going to approach

1872
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,880
rookies contributing to contenders unless they're on Memphis. To be clear,

1873
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:40,920
with just this a mass amount of skepticism, and so

1874
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,279
it feels like they just miscalculated, I guess, like how

1875
01:23:44,399 --> 01:23:47,439
much like this roster was going to float. But then

1876
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:50,199
it's also they made that deal and then traded Karl

1877
01:23:50,199 --> 01:23:52,000
Anthony Towns, and so maybe you would have had that

1878
01:23:52,039 --> 01:23:55,640
buffer had you not made the trade. I just it's

1879
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,119
that's gonna be a fascinating transaction to look back on.

1880
01:23:58,199 --> 01:24:02,039
But immediately, by the way hamstrings what they can do

1881
01:24:02,119 --> 01:24:04,479
if they wanted to fix anything, like, you can't because

1882
01:24:04,479 --> 01:24:06,920
you can't aggregate salaries. It's not like, oh, Julius Randall,

1883
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:08,479
Rob Dillingham, what could we get for that? And you

1884
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:11,159
also just don't have that swap and that pick now

1885
01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:13,479
available for trade. If you thought something was gonna come

1886
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,520
along with a one for one or a one for

1887
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:16,600
two type swap.

1888
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd be in a lot better position if you're

1889
01:24:19,199 --> 01:24:21,840
trying to turn Randal into someone that you might keep

1890
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,479
for longer term or fits better if you had the

1891
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,800
draft assets you lost in the Dillingham move.

1892
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:31,119
Speaker 1: I think because even look, could you could trade Randall

1893
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:34,039
that Pistons pick and then if you had your pick,

1894
01:24:34,239 --> 01:24:36,199
like the swap or the pick that might have gotten

1895
01:24:36,199 --> 01:24:37,000
you Cam Johnson.

1896
01:24:37,399 --> 01:24:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, I think it's just I don't know

1897
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,720
charitably Dillingham maybe is there for when Conley ages out,

1898
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,000
which were like pretty close to it at this point,

1899
01:24:47,319 --> 01:24:49,039
and it wasn't ever like he's gonna be our six

1900
01:24:49,119 --> 01:24:50,880
man on a team that is gonna make the fine.

1901
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:53,680
Like me, that felt like the logic. I just if

1902
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:56,159
it was, I think that that wasn't it?

1903
01:24:56,560 --> 01:24:59,680
Speaker 1: These are for you if we've back to back Pelicans notes.

1904
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:03,079
Speaker 2: All right, Mike Scotto confirms that brandon Ingram shut down

1905
01:25:03,119 --> 01:25:05,199
previous talks that would have landed John Collins in New

1906
01:25:05,239 --> 01:25:07,159
Orleans because he did not want to end up in Utah.

1907
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:09,640
Uh is that a mistake by brandon Ingram? What's the

1908
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:11,439
appeal for for Utah?

1909
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:11,600
Speaker 1: Like?

1910
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:15,279
Speaker 2: Why do you want that's? I mean, this isn't Ingram

1911
01:25:15,319 --> 01:25:17,520
to Utah has been something we've sort of like seen

1912
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,960
kicked around just because where else you know, it was

1913
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:25,600
a lot of it. Uh, why would Utah be interested in.

1914
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:28,640
Speaker 1: Him to get off Collins his money for next year.

1915
01:25:29,319 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 2: In order to take on I mean if it's as

1916
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:34,640
a rental like that the lot it's always been, because

1917
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:37,960
then you're talking, Okay, we want to keep him. No sorry,

1918
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,520
if it's what you're saying, and it's well, we'd love

1919
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:42,560
to be out from under Collins, Uh, and that next

1920
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,079
year of the deal, so we'll rent brandon Ingram, let

1921
01:25:45,159 --> 01:25:47,920
him go into free agency. That's weird. And if it's

1922
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,800
we believe brandon Ingram and Lorie market and are the

1923
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:55,720
ideal front court combo, like, that's maybe weird. I don't

1924
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:59,279
I the Utah appeal is I just I don't know, man,

1925
01:25:59,359 --> 01:26:01,760
Like I I get the New Orleans side of it, obviously,

1926
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,760
like give us Walker Kessler maybe and we're happy or

1927
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,600
that was before you've MESSI became a superstar. But yeah,

1928
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,119
I buy brandon Ingram not wanting to go to go

1929
01:26:11,159 --> 01:26:14,560
to Utah. And I also I don't understand why Utah

1930
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:16,319
would have ever been all that interested.

1931
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:18,319
Speaker 1: Do you think it would have been more justified by

1932
01:26:18,319 --> 01:26:20,439
them over the off season before John Collins went on

1933
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:21,760
to have the season that he's having.

1934
01:26:22,319 --> 01:26:25,199
Speaker 2: Probably probably, but I still don't understand the financial side,

1935
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:26,079
you know.

1936
01:26:26,159 --> 01:26:29,359
Speaker 1: And I ultimately think it was smart by brandon Ingram

1937
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:32,680
if he's the one who poo pooed that deal. Because Okay,

1938
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:34,920
let's say you play well in Utah, they're still a

1939
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:37,159
team like the Pelicans, are less likely to let him

1940
01:26:37,159 --> 01:26:39,359
walk for not they might view themselves as trapped because

1941
01:26:39,359 --> 01:26:42,039
of the Zia Williams situation. They might still pay you,

1942
01:26:42,159 --> 01:26:44,760
or they'll send you to another team. Maybe that panics

1943
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:46,600
that the deadline er needs an infusion that's more likely

1944
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,960
to keep you. Because of Utah situation. He could have

1945
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,560
a lowry market in type season and they might still

1946
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:56,119
like when Mattery first went to Utah, and they could

1947
01:26:56,119 --> 01:26:57,760
still they're at a point where so we'll just let

1948
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:00,960
you go anyway or go find They might, or at

1949
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:03,199
the very least, I would say they they probably more

1950
01:27:03,199 --> 01:27:05,800
inclined to really try and squeeze him on the open market.

1951
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,119
He has to look at the cap space landscape and say,

1952
01:27:08,399 --> 01:27:11,560
any team I'm on needs to want or have an

1953
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,000
outside chance of wanting to pay me moving forward.

1954
01:27:14,359 --> 01:27:17,159
Speaker 2: Well, And I mean the The other downside is if

1955
01:27:17,199 --> 01:27:18,760
you don't want to be in Utah, there is a

1956
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,000
good chance that Utah's like we're going to beat the

1957
01:27:21,039 --> 01:27:23,399
market because it might be like two teams and you're

1958
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:25,800
here now for four years in a place you don't

1959
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:27,359
want to be, and we're all just waiting for the

1960
01:27:27,399 --> 01:27:29,640
trade request, you know, like that's that's no good. We

1961
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:30,439
don't want that either.

1962
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 1: And this is the question I have about him, which

1963
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,239
is why I included him, because so much time has

1964
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:38,159
spent on Lavine now and Butler and Durant apparently by us,

1965
01:27:39,199 --> 01:27:40,720
is there a brandon Ingram team?

1966
01:27:42,119 --> 01:27:45,600
Speaker 2: I mean, he's just a hard player to have in

1967
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,439
a major role because of all the limit, all the

1968
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:51,199
things he doesn't do, Like it's everything that was like

1969
01:27:51,239 --> 01:27:53,800
problematic about him in New Orleans will follow him, Like

1970
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:55,920
I think we know roughly what sort of player he is.

1971
01:27:57,079 --> 01:27:59,199
Just to compare him to Levine, Levine gives you the

1972
01:27:59,239 --> 01:28:03,520
off ball value like over over a career, like Ingram has,

1973
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,760
you know, shot it more from three. But like I

1974
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:08,680
think if you're comparing the two, you're just gonna trust

1975
01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:11,920
Levigne in a smaller to add value as a smaller role.

1976
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:14,800
Now like even if he's paid not like a small

1977
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:18,079
role player, but Ingram is just if he doesn't have

1978
01:28:18,159 --> 01:28:21,520
the ball and isn't getting the shots he likes, which

1979
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,439
are tough too, is like, what is he doing for

1980
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:25,119
you at the price point you're gonna have to pay?

1981
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:27,319
So I don't know what that team is like, I

1982
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:29,479
don't know. I don't see the team that's like we

1983
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:33,239
need a moderate efficiency two point jump shooter that doesn't

1984
01:28:33,319 --> 01:28:35,880
help us very much off the ball on offense or defense,

1985
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,439
Like who who's asking for that? I don't, I don't,

1986
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:39,000
I don't know.

1987
01:28:39,359 --> 01:28:40,760
Speaker 1: And then there's also even if there's a team that

1988
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:42,960
just want to send back contracts as New Orleans at

1989
01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:46,199
the point where that's what they're gonna send out Brandon

1990
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:48,840
Ingram for, are they still trying to get real stuff

1991
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:49,239
for him?

1992
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:50,359
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know.

1993
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:53,159
Speaker 1: This one's not gonna be any less confusing, I guess.

1994
01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:55,520
As we move on to the latest sign on Williamson

1995
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:58,720
reporting ESPN's Bobby Marks and I think it was was

1996
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,600
a Tim McMahan had a fascination piece the other day

1997
01:29:02,039 --> 01:29:05,439
about just kind of Zion's value around the league. One

1998
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,319
rival exec said that like figuring out his trade value

1999
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:13,279
is the hardest thing to do right now, Zion is

2000
01:29:13,319 --> 01:29:16,479
not planning to request the trade though, despite changing representation

2001
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:18,399
this season. I don't even know if he has a

2002
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:21,560
leverage to request the trade to be just I honestly

2003
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:24,800
don't know. However, Mark Stein of The Styline previously reported

2004
01:29:25,039 --> 01:29:28,239
Zion techically is available. The only Pelicans consider not available

2005
01:29:28,239 --> 01:29:32,359
are Herb Trey Murphy and Eves mecI. Apparently an executive

2006
01:29:32,359 --> 01:29:34,520
from the East told ESPN though I would probably do

2007
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,479
something stupid to get him if I were making decisions,

2008
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:39,159
I just want to make it clear I'm not that

2009
01:29:39,239 --> 01:29:42,119
executive from the Eastern Conference. That is something I've already said,

2010
01:29:42,119 --> 01:29:44,680
but I'm not an executive for an Eastern Conference team.

2011
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:48,600
They've kind of flowed the ESPN mentioned like Golden State

2012
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:52,479
as a possible landing spot. Zion's contract is fascinating too.

2013
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:55,359
They also introduced the idea that with the Pelicans just

2014
01:29:55,399 --> 01:29:59,159
move him. As a contract his contract's not really detrimental.

2015
01:29:59,439 --> 01:30:01,560
If you're watching on YouTube, you could see the way

2016
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:03,920
the guarantees trigger on screen. But he has three years

2017
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,439
and one hundred and twenty seven million dollars left. All

2018
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:08,319
of them are non guaranteed, and he has to reach

2019
01:30:08,399 --> 01:30:11,960
certain he has to reach certain way in benchmarks and

2020
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,800
games played benchmarks for it to progressively become more guaranteed.

2021
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:18,359
And so if New Orleans really pushed forward or wanted it,

2022
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:20,960
if they want off the money, they can probably just

2023
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,520
get there. But you don't, I don't. Just don't think

2024
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:27,119
you lose a transcendent talent, potential transcendent talent. However, injury

2025
01:30:27,159 --> 01:30:30,319
prone they are for nothing. What do you make of

2026
01:30:30,359 --> 01:30:32,199
all this? We've talked about it a bunch, but I

2027
01:30:32,279 --> 01:30:36,600
found this analysis of it interesting. So Zion not requesting

2028
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,479
the trade is good. Maybe that means that he's happy

2029
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,800
in New Orleans. But if you're the Pelicans, like, how

2030
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:43,399
do you just approach this? Is it just we need

2031
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:45,479
to wait and hope that lightning strikes in a bottle

2032
01:30:45,479 --> 01:30:47,600
with him for a season, or are you ready to

2033
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:47,960
move on?

2034
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:51,319
Speaker 2: I think all the challenges that we've discussed related to

2035
01:30:51,399 --> 01:30:53,760
Zion are still there, which is to say, he's hard

2036
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:57,560
to build around. The conditioning and health are unreliable, and

2037
01:30:57,600 --> 01:30:59,520
so like, what are you really doing if he is

2038
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:02,039
the central figure of your organization? Like that's just that's

2039
01:31:02,039 --> 01:31:03,680
a challenge that they're gonna have for as long as

2040
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:09,520
he's there. But I think, like it's the nature of

2041
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:13,800
this contract sort of makes it so that anytime you're

2042
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:19,520
trading Zion, like or, there's no urgency because you don't

2043
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:21,880
really ever get to a point where you're selling low

2044
01:31:22,399 --> 01:31:27,039
because of the like stacked non guaranteed seasons. So it's

2045
01:31:27,079 --> 01:31:30,560
like he's always gonna have appeal in some way to

2046
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:33,640
a team that wants money that it can erase, or

2047
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:35,760
you know what I mean, like or that's more willing

2048
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,720
to take on the year to year like uncertainties than

2049
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:41,359
the Pelicans are, who've endured them for half a decade. Like,

2050
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,439
so I think you can, as New Orleans, if you're

2051
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:49,439
comfortable with just carrying over all of the complications that

2052
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:51,680
come with building around him, which I just mentioned and

2053
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,079
we talk about all the time, you can just wait

2054
01:31:54,119 --> 01:31:56,800
and hope you do get a healthy stretch from him,

2055
01:31:57,079 --> 01:31:58,760
and either that means like, oh my god, we are

2056
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:00,439
good enough with him, or it means like now we

2057
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:02,800
can trade him for like real value because you know.

2058
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:06,359
So it's it's weird in that, like, as long as

2059
01:32:06,359 --> 01:32:09,319
he's there, it's always going to be difficult for New

2060
01:32:09,399 --> 01:32:11,840
Orleans to like really build a functional team that you

2061
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:16,239
can like sort of believe in, but like they also

2062
01:32:16,399 --> 01:32:19,079
have like there's a real justification for not like freaking

2063
01:32:19,119 --> 01:32:21,600
out and moving him, because you can be the team

2064
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:23,880
that makes the money disappear if you want to, Like

2065
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:26,520
there's it's it's it's very unusual, it's unique. There aren't

2066
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,039
contracts like this, Like this is a special case.

2067
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 1: I also just so if you're moving like so the

2068
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:33,920
Nets would be a fascinating team for me because he's

2069
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:35,920
not going to ruin your tank this year and he's

2070
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:37,960
always injured that you could just slow play it next year.

2071
01:32:38,399 --> 01:32:41,159
But if you're the Pelicans, unless it they're like the

2072
01:32:41,319 --> 01:32:43,119
Brooklyn's aren't a team that's gonna give you a couple

2073
01:32:43,119 --> 01:32:45,399
of first round picks for Zion Williams in And so

2074
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:48,199
if you're the Pelicans, you could say, well, just getting

2075
01:32:48,199 --> 01:32:50,000
out of that money has value. So let's say there's

2076
01:32:50,039 --> 01:32:52,319
like some sort of expose, like where's what are you

2077
01:32:52,359 --> 01:32:54,319
doing with that money? Because if you're getting rid of Zion,

2078
01:32:54,399 --> 01:32:56,880
you've decided what we're starting over. You don't need that

2079
01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:58,840
salary slot. Yeah, if you want to, you're not getting

2080
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,279
anyone in free agency that that first of all, not

2081
01:33:01,319 --> 01:33:03,479
only have you in New Orleans that's not historically been

2082
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:06,560
a destination. Freeingsey has not worked like that in what

2083
01:33:06,680 --> 01:33:09,640
feels like years. I mean, I know Paul George just left,

2084
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:11,640
jaylen Brunson went from Dallas to New York, but how

2085
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:13,359
often is that stuff actually happening?

2086
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 2: Right now, you're running up against an issue I want

2087
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:18,439
to talk about so bad, but we'll save it for

2088
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:20,600
for Jimmy Butler at the end.

2089
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 1: But that's I just don't think are there is there

2090
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:25,880
any I think if they were gonna move him, I'm

2091
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:27,479
not moving him for less than two first round picks

2092
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:29,359
at this point because I'd rather wait and see can

2093
01:33:29,359 --> 01:33:31,520
I get him healthy and reboot his value or does

2094
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:34,600
this just work out? I don't understand the what are

2095
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:36,319
you gonna do find a way to move him with

2096
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:39,079
CJ McCullum for expiring money, like you're doing that as

2097
01:33:39,079 --> 01:33:41,920
part of the value Again, what does that do for you?

2098
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:43,119
Speaker 2: Antonio?

2099
01:33:44,079 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 1: I mentioned that on a previous podcast I did the

2100
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:48,880
other day. I would love that, and it would just

2101
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:51,279
it's just not something that Spurs would ever do though.

2102
01:33:51,159 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not. But man, the two first.

2103
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:55,960
Speaker 1: Round picks resign on Williamson with money. But they're not.

2104
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:57,720
They're just not gonna do that. I would love it, though,

2105
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,279
And that's that's the value of Wendy. By the way,

2106
01:34:00,399 --> 01:34:02,760
is you could everyone complains about he needs more paint

2107
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:05,119
touches or let's him operate down low? Is there a

2108
01:34:05,119 --> 01:34:06,880
big that he can't play alongside?

2109
01:34:07,079 --> 01:34:10,039
Speaker 2: No, there's nobody he can't play with. That's that's the thing,

2110
01:34:10,119 --> 01:34:13,880
Like that of all his incredible qualities. Like there's nobody

2111
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,079
you put on the spurs that that you say I

2112
01:34:16,119 --> 01:34:19,159
don't like that fit. It's not possible. You can't find

2113
01:34:19,159 --> 01:34:21,399
me the you put Rudy Gobert on the spurs, I'd

2114
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:24,119
be like, looks good to me. Like that's I see

2115
01:34:24,159 --> 01:34:24,800
no problems.

2116
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:27,159
Speaker 1: We are getting closer to Jimmy Butler grant just two

2117
01:34:27,159 --> 01:34:27,760
more teams.

2118
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:30,079
Speaker 2: I hope I remember my take. Some more updates on

2119
01:34:30,119 --> 01:34:33,359
the ongoing dearon Fox situation. UH Sam Amck of The

2120
01:34:33,399 --> 01:34:35,920
Athletic reports that Fox is not on the trade market.

2121
01:34:36,319 --> 01:34:39,560
UH Bleach reports. Eric Pinkas says executives still expect Fox

2122
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,000
to request out before the February six trade deadline. So

2123
01:34:42,399 --> 01:34:45,319
can some conflicting stuff I guess or maybe not conflicting

2124
01:34:45,359 --> 01:34:47,960
if it's the contention is he's not on it now

2125
01:34:48,199 --> 01:34:50,079
trademarket wise, but he maybe.

2126
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:52,239
Speaker 1: I will say no Amy, because I think he used

2127
01:34:52,239 --> 01:34:54,239
to be on the King's beat, right, but he's always been.

2128
01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,760
Speaker 2: He's local too, so like he's yeah, he's very much on.

2129
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:00,319
That's the guy you pay attention to for for Kings stuff,

2130
01:35:00,359 --> 01:35:04,720
for sure, among national writers, among probably anybody honestly. Ammick

2131
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:06,920
also notes the Magic are supposed to be heavily involved

2132
01:35:07,079 --> 01:35:09,960
or interested in fox Stein. Mark Stein says the Spurs

2133
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:12,279
will be seriously interested over the offseason. We have heard

2134
01:35:12,319 --> 01:35:15,920
the Houston rumblings in conjunction with Houston not being interested

2135
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:19,560
in making a trade. So just looking at Fox here,

2136
01:35:22,159 --> 01:35:24,760
but let's go, let's go like sort of sequentially, do

2137
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:27,880
you believe that the Kings are not considering trading him

2138
01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:29,359
right now that he's not on the market.

2139
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:32,359
Speaker 1: I do, and my stance will remain that I think

2140
01:35:32,359 --> 01:35:35,560
it would be dumb to do so unless he asks

2141
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:38,520
for out. Like this isn't a Kevin Durant situation where

2142
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:41,840
I think the Sun should make the call. You're dealing

2143
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:44,640
with an All NBA type player in his prime who

2144
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,680
is not communicated yet to you, Like his next contract's

2145
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:49,880
going to be expensive, he will still be the same

2146
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:52,279
type of player on that next contract. So unless he

2147
01:35:52,279 --> 01:35:55,239
asked for out, I wouldn't be looking at moving him.

2148
01:35:55,359 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've talked about it a little bit. Now. You

2149
01:35:57,039 --> 01:36:00,000
made me remember it's like, try everything else before you

2150
01:36:00,079 --> 01:36:03,880
go to trading foxs And actually we did. We said

2151
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:05,720
that before Mike Brown got fired, right, it was like,

2152
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:07,640
here's all the other things you should do before you

2153
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:09,399
trade Fox and they did one.

2154
01:36:10,039 --> 01:36:13,640
Speaker 1: So that was prescient, that conversation of aging so well,

2155
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,039
even though it was it was it posted like ten

2156
01:36:16,039 --> 01:36:17,319
minutes before he got fired.

2157
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:19,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we missed a massive development, but we sort of,

2158
01:36:20,159 --> 01:36:21,079
I don't know, pointed to it.

2159
01:36:21,119 --> 01:36:22,199
Speaker 1: We just fore casted it.

2160
01:36:22,479 --> 01:36:25,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, we cast it. There is I do have some

2161
01:36:25,119 --> 01:36:26,479
more Kings notes. You want me to get through those?

2162
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:27,560
Even if they're not on the screen.

2163
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:30,039
Speaker 1: I think they're kinda well, it's gonna the other thing

2164
01:36:30,079 --> 01:36:32,600
do you expect Fox to before we move to the

2165
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:34,479
next slide, which might be more about the Kings going

2166
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:38,119
the opposite direction, like, do you think Fox, what would

2167
01:36:38,159 --> 01:36:40,239
be the value in Fox requesting out?

2168
01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:41,079
Speaker 2: Now?

2169
01:36:41,199 --> 01:36:43,199
Speaker 1: Is it just if you waited. Let's say he asked,

2170
01:36:43,199 --> 01:36:45,199
like January fifteenth, when all these other guys will come

2171
01:36:45,199 --> 01:36:47,199
out as we'll be traded. It's just well, now you

2172
01:36:47,319 --> 01:36:49,800
might have more say over where you go because the

2173
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:52,279
Kings have less time to figure it out, because doesn't

2174
01:36:52,279 --> 01:36:54,640
it also increase the risk that well, then you have

2175
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:56,640
to stay on a team like Anthony Davis did that

2176
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:59,159
you requested a trade from for a half season, and

2177
01:36:59,199 --> 01:37:00,000
shit's just awkward.

2178
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:03,159
Speaker 2: I think that's part of it. I think the flip

2179
01:37:03,159 --> 01:37:05,159
side of that, which is the sooner you get to

2180
01:37:05,199 --> 01:37:08,319
this new team, the more information you're able to get

2181
01:37:08,399 --> 01:37:10,560
about it from Fox's perspective, to see if this is

2182
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:13,079
where I want to, you know, sign my next contract.

2183
01:37:13,359 --> 01:37:15,680
That that's part of it too. Maybe now that's more

2184
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:19,199
of a difference between like now versus the off season,

2185
01:37:19,279 --> 01:37:21,920
because now versus the actual trade deadline is a month

2186
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:26,199
and whatever. Yeah, I don't know, I could I could

2187
01:37:26,239 --> 01:37:29,239
see now this hasn't been reported or anything, but it's

2188
01:37:29,279 --> 01:37:33,079
like what we have seen come out just suggests to

2189
01:37:33,119 --> 01:37:35,920
me that Fox is like seeing the King's situation with

2190
01:37:35,960 --> 01:37:38,520
clear eyes, and it's like we're not a contender. I

2191
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:41,039
don't know how we get there. I want in my

2192
01:37:41,159 --> 01:37:44,199
prime of my career to be on a contender, and

2193
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:47,039
I'm not the reason we're not a contender. Like that's so,

2194
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:51,000
I think he's just surveying the landscape, and I think

2195
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:54,279
correctly concluding like this isn't where it's gonna happen for

2196
01:37:54,319 --> 01:37:56,840
me in terms of like maybe winning a title or

2197
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:59,720
making a conference final. So like, I get it, it's

2198
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:01,319
just now it's a time in question.

2199
01:38:01,399 --> 01:38:05,319
Speaker 1: Basically, I would still be threefold point very quickly if

2200
01:38:05,359 --> 01:38:07,439
he requested a trade. Now. I think one, you might

2201
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:08,760
as well play out the season and see if you

2202
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:10,720
make all NBA and he can get a five year,

2203
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:12,640
three hundred and forty plus million dollar deal, then you're

2204
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:15,039
locked into there for another year. But that's a lot

2205
01:38:15,079 --> 01:38:19,079
of money. Two, the teams that are being mentioned, and

2206
01:38:19,439 --> 01:38:20,960
I'd be curious to know what your favorite fit for

2207
01:38:21,039 --> 01:38:24,600
him is. The Magic, the Spurs, and the Rockets just

2208
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:26,239
sort of the primary teams that would be wanting to

2209
01:38:26,239 --> 01:38:29,279
go after him. Those are all teams that I don't

2210
01:38:29,319 --> 01:38:33,399
think internally are motivated to make a mid season deal.

2211
01:38:34,119 --> 01:38:36,479
I think they would all because Orlando all the injuries,

2212
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:40,399
and then with the Spurs, that's really not how they operate,

2213
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:42,680
although you could make the case that Wenby's so good,

2214
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:45,359
now do you treat him with urgency? And then Houston,

2215
01:38:46,039 --> 01:38:48,159
I just I don't think Houston should make them If

2216
01:38:48,159 --> 01:38:50,119
I'm the Magic or Spurs, Yeah, I'm giving up what

2217
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:51,760
I need to give up to get Fox, So I

2218
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:53,840
think that would factor into it. And then the other

2219
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:55,319
thing is here too, that the Kings are going to

2220
01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:57,560
be fine because Kean Ellis is starting now.

2221
01:38:57,239 --> 01:39:01,079
Speaker 2: So that ut, yeah, you saved the big the best

2222
01:39:01,079 --> 01:39:04,000
point for last. I think I like his fit on

2223
01:39:04,079 --> 01:39:06,399
all three of those teams, and I just think, like,

2224
01:39:07,319 --> 01:39:09,479
I guess, I guess if you're willing to wait for

2225
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:12,159
him to actually hit free agency and sign him then,

2226
01:39:12,239 --> 01:39:16,439
which is a year and a half away, right right, Yeah,

2227
01:39:17,199 --> 01:39:20,960
I I I that's so far down the road that

2228
01:39:21,119 --> 01:39:23,479
maybe this burs could justify that. But for all three

2229
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:25,279
of those teams, it's like, if you want ieron Fox,

2230
01:39:25,319 --> 01:39:27,720
go get dearon Fox. Like, just just do that and

2231
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:29,600
have him on the team now. And then if you

2232
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:31,800
still think, oh, we're not quite ready, it's really about

2233
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:34,319
twenty five twenty six or twenty six twenty seven, fine,

2234
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:36,720
but like, just go get him if you can get him,

2235
01:39:37,199 --> 01:39:38,479
I don't. I just don't want to wait a year

2236
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:40,680
and a half to sign the guy. It looks mockty.

2237
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:43,760
Speaker 1: So if you're Fox, though, are you short circuiting your

2238
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,920
one chance at the supermax by requesting a trade now

2239
01:39:47,119 --> 01:39:50,039
and then two? Wouldn't you rather let's throw the super

2240
01:39:50,039 --> 01:39:52,279
max out of the equation. He will have more control,

2241
01:39:52,319 --> 01:39:55,600
I would think over where he goes if this season's over.

2242
01:39:55,720 --> 01:39:57,199
He just has the year left on his deal, as

2243
01:39:57,239 --> 01:40:00,319
opposed to teams believing, hey, is he year and a

2244
01:40:00,319 --> 01:40:02,840
half before free agency, like we can sell him on

2245
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,199
this place. Why would he have more control because he

2246
01:40:06,239 --> 01:40:08,399
has that just one year left before free agency. So

2247
01:40:08,399 --> 01:40:10,199
if he tells you I'm not going to extend, I

2248
01:40:10,199 --> 01:40:13,680
think teams will take that as a more salient point,

2249
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:15,800
like over the summer, than they will now. Whereas well,

2250
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:18,000
we got a season and a half to show you that, no,

2251
01:40:18,079 --> 01:40:19,359
you actually are going to stay here.

2252
01:40:20,159 --> 01:40:24,239
Speaker 2: Well, what I would worry about is getting to the

2253
01:40:24,279 --> 01:40:27,359
point where you are just gonna hit free agency and

2254
01:40:27,399 --> 01:40:30,640
then nobody has any money and you your options are

2255
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:32,680
You know that that's hard to imagine, But it's not

2256
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:34,479
off the table because we're sort of in that or

2257
01:40:34,479 --> 01:40:36,399
if you're in a situation like it'll be this summer

2258
01:40:36,720 --> 01:40:38,720
where any free agent is like do I want to

2259
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:41,840
play for Brooklyn? Like I don't know that now san Antonio,

2260
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:44,079
I think is maybe the exception because they could have

2261
01:40:44,119 --> 01:40:48,279
the money potentially to sign him what to an off

2262
01:40:48,319 --> 01:40:50,199
season and a year and a half from now. I'll

2263
01:40:50,199 --> 01:40:53,760
just keep using that term, whereas like Houston may not

2264
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:57,439
and Orlando may not, so like but then I yeah,

2265
01:40:57,479 --> 01:41:01,000
I think the problem really, as I'm thinking about it,

2266
01:41:01,039 --> 01:41:03,279
is that like if you are the Spurs and you

2267
01:41:03,399 --> 01:41:05,159
just want to get him now, like, it's not he's

2268
01:41:05,199 --> 01:41:09,399
gonna be He's gonna cost three firsts like and and

2269
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:13,039
stuff probably, so like that could be prohibitive if you

2270
01:41:13,079 --> 01:41:15,239
do think you can sign him, I don't know. I

2271
01:41:15,319 --> 01:41:17,279
just I just want to do it now, and if

2272
01:41:17,279 --> 01:41:19,039
I'm Fox, I really want to do it now because

2273
01:41:19,039 --> 01:41:19,479
I'm just like.

2274
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:22,960
Speaker 1: I'm not interesting. That's interesting. So of the three, you

2275
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:24,600
think the Spurs are the team that are like, if

2276
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:26,039
he's available out like, just go get him.

2277
01:41:26,079 --> 01:41:29,159
Speaker 2: I think so because if you're the Spurs, then any

2278
01:41:29,159 --> 01:41:32,880
team that gets him now potentially has a favorable situation

2279
01:41:33,039 --> 01:41:34,920
because if he does get to free agency, You're like

2280
01:41:35,119 --> 01:41:37,479
nobody's nobody can pay you what we're gonna pay you,

2281
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:39,439
or like two teams can pay you what we can

2282
01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:41,640
pay you and they suck you know, like you don't

2283
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:44,039
want to go play. You left Sacramento because you didn't

2284
01:41:44,079 --> 01:41:46,239
like their ceiling. You want to go play for Brooklyn,

2285
01:41:46,279 --> 01:41:49,359
You want to go play for whoever else has money.

2286
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:52,159
Speaker 1: I would just fave the Spurs acting so Unspurs like,

2287
01:41:52,199 --> 01:41:54,800
so I'm gonna say the Spurs too, the other Darren

2288
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:57,319
Fox stuff. So this would be the flip side of it.

2289
01:41:57,319 --> 01:41:59,640
Teams are waiting to see. Uh this is per Michael

2290
01:41:59,640 --> 01:42:01,840
Scott of whop type, whether the Kings actually make a

2291
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:05,119
panic move soloving the firing of Mike Brown, and this

2292
01:42:05,159 --> 01:42:08,199
would be is said. What I find fascinating about this,

2293
01:42:08,239 --> 01:42:11,600
and Sam A mcadds like this is they've had extensive

2294
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,119
talks about Cam Johnson with the Nets and so I

2295
01:42:14,199 --> 01:42:16,760
think there's two questions I want to ask about this. Grant,

2296
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:20,000
Let's let's stick with Foxtar a second. If the Kings

2297
01:42:20,039 --> 01:42:22,560
make a move like this, is it really a panic

2298
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:25,840
move or do you think that it's more so they

2299
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:28,000
have a good read on the d'haron Fox situation. They

2300
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:30,359
don't think that trade request is coming down the pipeline

2301
01:42:30,399 --> 01:42:32,279
because if you think he's gonna ask to be traded,

2302
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:34,800
I really do think it would take a special brand

2303
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:38,079
of stupid to trade future first round picks.

2304
01:42:38,079 --> 01:42:40,319
Speaker 2: Right well, the Kings.

2305
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:43,920
Speaker 1: Speaking of a special brand of stupid.

2306
01:42:44,840 --> 01:42:47,680
Speaker 2: I think that's a good question. I think, like, what

2307
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:50,680
does a panic trade even look like for them? Because

2308
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,000
if it's a cell, that's almost like good call, like

2309
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:54,720
if you, oh, let's get off to bard rozen or

2310
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:56,600
something like that's yeah, I mean not that he makes

2311
01:42:56,600 --> 01:42:58,439
a ton, but it's like that I don't like to fit.

2312
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:02,439
Maybe we should never have liked it. Selling wouldn't seem

2313
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:04,600
selling would seem to maybe be the right move given

2314
01:43:04,680 --> 01:43:06,800
like some of the tea leaves so far. If it's

2315
01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:09,680
a bye, like what is a so Cam Johnson, I

2316
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:13,720
don't think would be a panic acquisition. Well, unless you're

2317
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:16,840
keeping up first, yeah, then then then then it's like.

2318
01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 1: I think, I think what makes it is it considered

2319
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:21,760
a panic move because they can't trade it would be

2320
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:25,319
a conditional twenty twenty seven first round pick, and that's

2321
01:43:25,359 --> 01:43:27,439
where it gets Oh, you're not giving up this year's

2322
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:30,319
first round pick, because that's already technically gone, or maybe

2323
01:43:30,319 --> 01:43:32,840
maybe you're bad enough that you keep it, but now

2324
01:43:32,840 --> 01:43:35,000
you've traded a conditional first round pick that, by the way,

2325
01:43:35,159 --> 01:43:37,439
if it's conditional and you end up being good enough

2326
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:41,359
this year, well now that obligations extending past twenty twenty seven.

2327
01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:46,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess just using Cam Johnson and our like

2328
01:43:46,239 --> 01:43:50,239
ballpark expected price, that wouldn't feel like a panic trade

2329
01:43:50,279 --> 01:43:53,680
to me. It would. It might still be dangerous though,

2330
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:56,000
because I do think you need to take you need

2331
01:43:56,000 --> 01:43:59,000
to view Fox as a short timer. I think, I

2332
01:43:59,039 --> 01:44:03,680
think so, Like if that's the reality, I don't. I

2333
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:06,760
think you need to be looking to acquire first as

2334
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:09,960
opposed to giving them up for a good player, but

2335
01:44:10,039 --> 01:44:11,800
not someone that's like, well we lost Fox, but we've

2336
01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:14,239
got Cam Johnson anchoring. You know, that's just never gonna

2337
01:44:14,239 --> 01:44:14,640
be the thing.

2338
01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:16,520
Speaker 1: I would qualify a panic trade with them, and a

2339
01:44:16,560 --> 01:44:19,319
selling is probably the right. Like we talk about being proactive,

2340
01:44:19,359 --> 01:44:21,479
that's the writings on the wall. I would look at

2341
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:24,520
it as a buy that costs you even a first

2342
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:27,199
round pick at this point, and if it costs more

2343
01:44:27,239 --> 01:44:29,800
than that, and it's not because Cam Johnson, you're not

2344
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:31,960
getting Cam. I would be shocked if they Kevin Heurder,

2345
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:34,800
Trey Lyles. And that twenty twenty seven pick for Cam

2346
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:38,239
Johnson was a deal that Brooklyn accepted. And so now you're, yeah,

2347
01:44:38,279 --> 01:44:40,119
are they gonna throw in Devin Carter? So like to me,

2348
01:44:40,159 --> 01:44:43,079
if you're getting a non star or a non like

2349
01:44:43,159 --> 01:44:47,039
someone who just you know, fixes everything, and you're giving

2350
01:44:47,079 --> 01:44:49,479
up because I can't even say the equivalent of more

2351
01:44:49,560 --> 01:44:51,920
one first round pick because a twenty twenty seven first

2352
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:54,520
round pick that could spill out, that counts as panic

2353
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:57,640
to me if the player is not so their trade.

2354
01:44:57,640 --> 01:44:59,720
While I do think that they shouldn't, I'm seeing this

2355
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:02,239
seas and through unless the Aaron Fox says otherwise, can

2356
01:45:02,279 --> 01:45:05,000
you get a Jonathan Isaac without giving up? Like that's

2357
01:45:05,039 --> 01:45:07,119
probably what they need to look at and anything else

2358
01:45:08,119 --> 01:45:12,159
you could talk me into one one asset plus salary

2359
01:45:12,199 --> 01:45:14,279
for Cam Johnson not being a panic trade. But do

2360
01:45:14,319 --> 01:45:17,000
you think Cam Johnson's a good fit? What do you

2361
01:45:17,039 --> 01:45:19,720
think that he does for this team? Aside I guess

2362
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:23,439
deepen the rotation of dependable players, Like what does he

2363
01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:26,960
do that you think? But like fixes the Kings?

2364
01:45:27,119 --> 01:45:29,840
Speaker 2: I mean he gives you a forward that isn't Keegan Murray,

2365
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:32,239
which is the only forward they really have. Like that's

2366
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,840
you know, he he would address a spot of weakness.

2367
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:39,640
But like I think what we would what we've been

2368
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:43,199
saying is like the Kings, you know they and I

2369
01:45:43,239 --> 01:45:45,319
think what King's fans, It's hard to know now, I

2370
01:45:45,319 --> 01:45:49,039
think everybody's pretty down. But like Cam Johnson type acquisition

2371
01:45:49,239 --> 01:45:51,800
is that is, if you thought Fox like he's not

2372
01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:54,560
going anywhere, Cam Johnson would make sense like he's he

2373
01:45:54,560 --> 01:45:57,159
could help them or someone of that level could help them.

2374
01:45:57,720 --> 01:45:59,840
It's it, but it is a panic move. I think

2375
01:46:00,560 --> 01:46:03,000
if you believe Fox is just not someone that's going

2376
01:46:03,079 --> 01:46:05,920
to be there, which which I think, like you what

2377
01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:08,439
do you let's let's relate. This is the core question,

2378
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:11,119
like do you think dearon Fox is on the Kings?

2379
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:14,279
Does he sign a new contract or an extension with

2380
01:46:14,439 --> 01:46:14,960
the Kings?

2381
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:20,239
Speaker 1: Not if he doesn't make all NBA and even yeah,

2382
01:46:20,399 --> 01:46:22,640
because he's probably not going to give that up. So

2383
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:26,399
have we seen anybody pass on? Like that's no, right, So.

2384
01:46:28,159 --> 01:46:31,760
Speaker 2: That's you know what that like that points towards his

2385
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:34,720
own urgency to move because he's gonna want to sign

2386
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:36,680
that with somebody else, right, right.

2387
01:46:37,159 --> 01:46:39,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying he can't sign that much, Like he could

2388
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:42,159
get an extension with another team, but the supermax is

2389
01:46:42,159 --> 01:46:43,399
only going to come with the Kings.

2390
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:45,279
Speaker 2: Do I not know the rule? He can't get it

2391
01:46:45,319 --> 01:46:48,039
if he makes all NBA this season playing for the Spurs.

2392
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:49,920
Speaker 1: No, because you need to be on the team that

2393
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:52,600
drafted you, right, like the I don't remember he's not,

2394
01:46:52,720 --> 01:46:54,960
Yeah you do, because he's not. That would be like

2395
01:46:55,359 --> 01:46:57,479
the veteran extension that he's not eligible for.

2396
01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:59,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. That's the whole point of the rule

2397
01:46:59,279 --> 01:47:00,640
is to try to keep you guys on the team

2398
01:47:00,640 --> 01:47:03,079
that drafted him. See. I can't even remember old CBA

2399
01:47:03,119 --> 01:47:04,239
stuff anymore.

2400
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:06,239
Speaker 1: Because they introduced too many new CBA things.

2401
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 2: That's on me. Anyway. What else we got? We got

2402
01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:09,640
another team here.

2403
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:10,760
Speaker 1: The Toronto Raptors.

2404
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:14,479
Speaker 2: Are you all right? The Future of Yaka Pearl a

2405
01:47:14,479 --> 01:47:16,640
five part documentary.

2406
01:47:16,079 --> 01:47:18,359
Speaker 1: Series ohing us I wouldn't put it bad.

2407
01:47:19,239 --> 01:47:21,399
Speaker 2: Mike Scotto says the NBA execs are wondering if Toronto

2408
01:47:21,399 --> 01:47:23,840
will look to move him. Pearl does have two years

2409
01:47:23,840 --> 01:47:25,680
and thirty nine million left on his contract. He has

2410
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:28,239
a player option for twenty six, twenty seven is a

2411
01:47:28,279 --> 01:47:32,279
good center, Like he's a good NBA center, starting caliber.

2412
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:34,000
Speaker 1: Fron Off hot takes left and right in the middle.

2413
01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:36,319
Speaker 2: Of the pack. Well, it's just like, I don't know

2414
01:47:36,359 --> 01:47:38,560
if you're talking like it might it seems silly if

2415
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,279
like executives are wondering if Toronto will move him, talking

2416
01:47:41,279 --> 01:47:43,920
about like he's Jimmy Butler or whatever. There there is

2417
01:47:43,960 --> 01:47:46,479
like a real conversation to be had because of what

2418
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:49,279
he makes it and how good he is. Where does

2419
01:47:49,319 --> 01:47:51,960
Pearle like solve the problem? Though? Like what what is

2420
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:53,960
there a team out there where Oh, he's the answer.

2421
01:47:54,159 --> 01:47:56,159
Speaker 1: I also look at it and say, I do think

2422
01:47:56,199 --> 01:47:59,119
he's better than he's He's more dynamic, I'll say, than

2423
01:47:59,159 --> 01:48:02,680
these players. But if you can get vouch or Yonis

2424
01:48:02,720 --> 01:48:04,960
Valanciunas for a second round pick in a contract you

2425
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:07,680
don't want, I'm not looking at Yaka Purl. The bigger

2426
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:10,640
thing to me is the Raptors don't have like the

2427
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:14,119
future of their center position locked down, So why would

2428
01:48:14,159 --> 01:48:17,159
you move a good player who also you could say

2429
01:48:17,199 --> 01:48:20,439
he doesn't fit their timeline? Toronto has this weird open

2430
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:23,439
ended timeline where we haven't seen their full group together basically,

2431
01:48:23,479 --> 01:48:26,479
ever Manual quickly just returned. That's great, but they could

2432
01:48:26,479 --> 01:48:29,000
wind up on a faster track for all we know,

2433
01:48:29,159 --> 01:48:31,479
just because they have good players there. So I get

2434
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:34,199
why executives might be monitoring it, but I'm not. That's

2435
01:48:34,239 --> 01:48:36,319
a weird thing where I hate that for everybody involved.

2436
01:48:36,359 --> 01:48:38,760
If I'm Toronto and I get an offer that bowls me, Yeah,

2437
01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:42,199
Yaka Purl's not untouchable, but why you're not, Like the

2438
01:48:42,239 --> 01:48:45,279
Bulls should shop Nikola Vucevich for whatever they could get,

2439
01:48:45,319 --> 01:48:47,760
The Wizard should do that with Yonas Valentunis. They should

2440
01:48:47,800 --> 01:48:50,119
not do that with Yaka Purdl. And if I'm another team,

2441
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:54,159
what I prefer to have Yaka Pearl over this season's

2442
01:48:54,199 --> 01:48:57,800
version of Nikolovuchevich, probably just because there's like a steadier

2443
01:48:57,880 --> 01:49:00,359
version of Yaka Purl there that isn't gonna sub marine

2444
01:49:00,359 --> 01:49:03,439
your entire existence that we sometimes seen with foos. But

2445
01:49:03,479 --> 01:49:05,720
I'm not giving up, Like why would you trade Yaka

2446
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:08,479
Purdle for a throwaway first round pick? And then why

2447
01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:10,960
are you giving up two first round picks for Yaka Purdle?

2448
01:49:11,279 --> 01:49:13,079
Shown me the team where that would make sense to do?

2449
01:49:13,199 --> 01:49:16,680
So I hate this for everybody involve. Nobody monitored Yaka Purdle,

2450
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:18,279
not even the Raptors.

2451
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:20,600
Speaker 2: I think they should trade him to the Spurs for

2452
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:23,319
a future first that we get to discuss whether it's

2453
01:49:23,319 --> 01:49:26,399
going to convey or not for several years. I like

2454
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:28,039
to close the loop on things that way.

2455
01:49:28,279 --> 01:49:30,640
Speaker 1: He's like, of all the players we've talked about, well,

2456
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:33,680
who's more likely to get moved Yaka Pearle or t Aaron.

2457
01:49:33,479 --> 01:49:36,680
Speaker 2: Fox dearon Fox? How about that?

2458
01:49:37,000 --> 01:49:38,880
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you. It is time to talk

2459
01:49:38,920 --> 01:49:41,399
about Jimmy Butler. Everyone's been awaiting it. We haven't really

2460
01:49:41,399 --> 01:49:43,840
talked about Jimmy Butler on this podcast at all this year.

2461
01:49:44,239 --> 01:49:48,199
Jimmy Butler grant he is basically requested or demanded a

2462
01:49:48,239 --> 01:49:48,720
trade now.

2463
01:49:49,319 --> 01:49:49,439
Speaker 2: Uh.

2464
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 1: He says he doesn't think he can recapture the joy

2465
01:49:52,359 --> 01:49:54,720
of playing while still in Miami. Point blank. That was

2466
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:57,399
That's one of those things we've talked a lot about. Well,

2467
01:49:57,439 --> 01:50:00,760
does do exchanges convey differently from tech to when you

2468
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:02,319
actually hear or watch them?

2469
01:50:02,479 --> 01:50:02,520
Speaker 2: Not?

2470
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:08,079
Speaker 1: This one? It was awkward, af Did you watch it?

2471
01:50:08,479 --> 01:50:10,079
Speaker 2: Yeah? I have seen I have seen this one.

2472
01:50:10,119 --> 01:50:13,600
Speaker 1: That dead silence was just like it.

2473
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 2: Felt almost performative, like a touch of it, but partly

2474
01:50:16,479 --> 01:50:19,279
because it's Jimmy Butler, Like you know, he he does

2475
01:50:19,359 --> 01:50:21,199
lay it on thick sometimes, I think in his in

2476
01:50:21,279 --> 01:50:21,880
his messaging.

2477
01:50:22,079 --> 01:50:25,560
Speaker 1: Now here's my question. He has now ESPN Chomp Serane

2478
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:27,640
came out with the report immediately after that press conference.

2479
01:50:27,760 --> 01:50:31,199
He would prefer to be elsewhere, but Butler reportedly doesn't

2480
01:50:31,199 --> 01:50:34,079
necessarily care where, which you don't really see. Is that

2481
01:50:34,119 --> 01:50:36,840
a reflection of him just wanting to cause maximum chaos

2482
01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:40,359
or a reflection of his market because initially when it

2483
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:43,399
wasn't kind of official and his agent was all upset,

2484
01:50:43,800 --> 01:50:45,880
there was the MAVs, the Sons, the Warriors, and the

2485
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:48,439
Rockets were his list of preferred teams. And we've kind

2486
01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:51,800
of gotten confirmation that like two of those teams just

2487
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:54,159
wouldn't even be interested. It'd be the Duves with the Suns,

2488
01:50:54,199 --> 01:50:56,520
and then the Sons need Bradley Belt a waves, no

2489
01:50:56,560 --> 01:50:58,600
trade clause and the Heat to maybe have like their

2490
01:50:58,600 --> 01:51:01,000
front office to have like a bunch of annual r So,

2491
01:51:01,680 --> 01:51:04,640
i I'm just like, what what is your read on that?

2492
01:51:04,720 --> 01:51:08,520
But but did he actually tell us where he wants

2493
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:10,920
to go? His hair was lime green? So was this

2494
01:51:10,920 --> 01:51:15,600
a Celticston situation or an alternative Minnesota Timberwolves jersey situation?

2495
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:17,640
Speaker 2: What you read on that there's some lie, there's some

2496
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:20,880
that colors in some of the Pelicans like Marti Gras

2497
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:23,199
jerseys too, So that was where my mind went.

2498
01:51:23,319 --> 01:51:26,319
Speaker 1: That's not close enough to the Spurs fiesta like Green.

2499
01:51:26,159 --> 01:51:28,640
Speaker 2: Mill, right, there's somebody else has like a weird green

2500
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:30,119
alternate that I can't think of now.

2501
01:51:30,199 --> 01:51:34,800
Speaker 1: I don't know Patty's day years ago. It's behind me.

2502
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:40,079
Speaker 2: He wants to be on the Knicks. Uh So my

2503
01:51:40,199 --> 01:51:44,199
first thought was, like, are are we finding players still

2504
01:51:44,239 --> 01:51:47,399
for trade requests? Can go that allowed? Because this this

2505
01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:50,359
was deliberately falling short of I want to be traded.

2506
01:51:50,399 --> 01:51:52,880
It was I need to go somewhere where I can

2507
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:55,479
find my joy. And they said, is that here? I

2508
01:51:55,479 --> 01:51:57,880
forget who's asking him? And he said, I don't know,

2509
01:51:58,079 --> 01:52:00,640
or it's probably not. So it's just like I do

2510
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:05,479
think I'm cynical. This felt like a calculated I'm gonna

2511
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:07,920
say as much as I possibly can about how unhappy

2512
01:52:07,960 --> 01:52:09,439
I am and how much I want to be traded

2513
01:52:09,479 --> 01:52:12,199
without doing whatever it takes to get over the line

2514
01:52:12,199 --> 01:52:13,840
of This was a trade request that I can get

2515
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:16,119
fined for in addition to all the other stuff you're

2516
01:52:16,159 --> 01:52:18,640
saying about, like you know, opening up the market.

2517
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:21,840
Speaker 1: It was adjacent to having Rachel Nichols on site for

2518
01:52:21,880 --> 01:52:25,279
the interview immediately after the tour deforce like that was

2519
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:27,760
it was that level of calculated they did. There was

2520
01:52:27,800 --> 01:52:29,760
a report that the heat might suspend him for it,

2521
01:52:30,159 --> 01:52:32,239
but they didn't announced that they won't, at least as

2522
01:52:32,239 --> 01:52:34,439
of now as we're recording this. I don't can you

2523
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:37,520
get fined like he was asked about it, and also

2524
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:39,319
he might like we at least we know what he

2525
01:52:39,359 --> 01:52:41,640
put on his twenty twenty five vision boarder in his

2526
01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:44,840
Gratitude journal of need to be somewhere I could recapture

2527
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:45,760
the joy and it's not here.

2528
01:52:46,520 --> 01:52:49,159
Speaker 2: I just wanted to have some joy, you know. Shouldn't

2529
01:52:49,159 --> 01:52:50,199
we wish that for everybody?

2530
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:54,279
Speaker 1: Do you think this was inevitable? Right? Because he let

2531
01:52:54,319 --> 01:52:56,479
the bread his camp, whether they denied or not, let

2532
01:52:56,479 --> 01:52:58,119
the bread combs kind of fall out, and then pat

2533
01:52:58,199 --> 01:53:00,680
Riley probably had talks with the teams on the list

2534
01:53:00,680 --> 01:53:03,039
of various teams didn't like the offers, said they weren't

2535
01:53:03,039 --> 01:53:04,600
going to trade him, and it was almost just a

2536
01:53:04,720 --> 01:53:06,479
day are saying you're gonna have to make this ugly

2537
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:09,159
on your end. I find that interesting because I don't

2538
01:53:09,199 --> 01:53:13,159
think Miami wins here by letting it get Like, if anything,

2539
01:53:13,399 --> 01:53:17,079
Jimmy Butler's trade value right now is less right than

2540
01:53:17,159 --> 01:53:21,199
Jimmy Butler's trade value like at the start of the season, Right.

2541
01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think that's right, just because

2542
01:53:24,520 --> 01:53:26,560
if he's further on in the contract and.

2543
01:53:26,439 --> 01:53:30,399
Speaker 1: Then I know you're not trading him on your terms

2544
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:32,920
is basically where I'm getting at.

2545
01:53:33,359 --> 01:53:36,119
Speaker 2: I think that's right. Does does part of you? I

2546
01:53:36,159 --> 01:53:39,600
think it's probably counterproductive for Riley to take like the

2547
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:41,760
hard line and come out before this and say we're

2548
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:47,319
not trading him. Part of me like enjoys owner like

2549
01:53:47,439 --> 01:53:51,279
management being like you sign a contract, we're in charge.

2550
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:53,680
Like you don't get somewhere else unless we say so.

2551
01:53:54,159 --> 01:53:57,239
I like, And a lot of the reporting I read

2552
01:53:57,239 --> 01:54:00,239
today and speculation was just kind of like, right, he's

2553
01:54:00,279 --> 01:54:02,560
the only executive in the league that can do this

2554
01:54:03,159 --> 01:54:06,079
because like he's never gonna be stripped of, Like he's

2555
01:54:06,159 --> 01:54:07,880
just in a position where he can be a hard

2556
01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:10,319
liner like this, and like, yeah, you want to walk

2557
01:54:10,399 --> 01:54:12,439
walk like that you're gonna but you're gonna sit here

2558
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:14,239
and be miserable for several months.

2559
01:54:14,399 --> 01:54:17,119
Speaker 1: It's probably not smart, Sam pressed he try to do that.

2560
01:54:17,159 --> 01:54:19,079
I don't know why, but could you even envision him

2561
01:54:19,199 --> 01:54:20,319
acting like I could.

2562
01:54:20,279 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 2: Do it in a way that was like that seems right,

2563
01:54:22,119 --> 01:54:24,439
that's a way to play it, you know, or that's

2564
01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:27,520
a reaction. But does any part of you. I don't

2565
01:54:27,520 --> 01:54:29,840
know if it's probably not a good instinct, but I

2566
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:32,399
do kind of like it when the party that's actually

2567
01:54:32,439 --> 01:54:37,399
in charge, like contractually says no, no, no, Like this is

2568
01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:39,720
you don't get to just be difficult and get what

2569
01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:42,199
you want. You know what this is. This is the

2570
01:54:42,279 --> 01:54:47,319
parenting side where that's like, I am not gonna cave

2571
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:51,039
to your tantrums, to your rational behavior. You can make

2572
01:54:51,079 --> 01:54:53,720
this as hard as you want, but I'm still in charge,

2573
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:56,119
and I'm gonna cling to that illusion for as long

2574
01:54:56,199 --> 01:54:59,920
as possible, probably to my detriment, which I think map

2575
01:55:00,159 --> 01:55:02,800
pretty perfectly onto what the Heat are doing right now

2576
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:04,439
in the position of authority.

2577
01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is just tough because he also

2578
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:10,880
he still intends to decline his fifty two point four

2579
01:55:10,920 --> 01:55:13,600
million dollar player option. I think a lot of teams

2580
01:55:13,960 --> 01:55:15,960
might view that or people. I would say a lot

2581
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:17,640
of people would probably view that as a bad thing.

2582
01:55:18,039 --> 01:55:21,399
If you're a team, you might actually appreciate that because, oh,

2583
01:55:21,439 --> 01:55:24,079
he's willing to get paid less for a longer time

2584
01:55:24,279 --> 01:55:26,279
he's not getting and if he does, it'll be a

2585
01:55:26,279 --> 01:55:29,000
two year thing. I mean, like, you're not an I

2586
01:55:30,159 --> 01:55:32,359
just can't see based off what the market's going to be.

2587
01:55:32,439 --> 01:55:34,880
Unless that's why Brooklyn is pear clutching cap space at

2588
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:37,319
the moment. We want Jimmy Butler on this team. No,

2589
01:55:37,399 --> 01:55:39,920
they don't. So where are you going? Detroit can maybe

2590
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:44,279
a Caspace or Washington They're no. So I'm just I'm

2591
01:55:44,319 --> 01:55:48,680
fascinated because I think Miami drawing the hardline stance is right,

2592
01:55:49,119 --> 01:55:51,520
but it's also their fault that they kind of got here.

2593
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:54,880
Because now it's also that Terry Rozier trade is still

2594
01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:58,520
one of the most inexplicable trades in recent memory, because

2595
01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:01,159
you're out a first round pick in two and twenty seven. Now,

2596
01:56:01,560 --> 01:56:03,880
so what are you valuing back? Do you just think

2597
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:05,920
you're going to be good enough so you trade Jimmy

2598
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:09,640
Butler for whatever, and depending on what's coming back, could

2599
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:12,399
you make the case from Miami side, before we even

2600
01:56:12,439 --> 01:56:14,880
talk about teams that might be interested, could you make

2601
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:18,520
the case that they're just like better off letting his money,

2602
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:20,159
daring his money to come off the books.

2603
01:56:20,199 --> 01:56:22,279
Speaker 2: Then this is exactly what I wanted to talk to

2604
01:56:22,319 --> 01:56:26,239
you about. So normally, and I do this more than you,

2605
01:56:26,920 --> 01:56:28,920
I would say you got to do something because he

2606
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:31,800
can walk, and you always correctly say, well, you can

2607
01:56:31,800 --> 01:56:33,680
sign and trade. It's not like you hit this, the

2608
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:36,760
contract expires and you have no recourse as the hero.

2609
01:56:37,279 --> 01:56:40,439
Not not really true. I'm wondering if if the new

2610
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:43,920
CBA is such that, and with the example recently is

2611
01:56:43,960 --> 01:56:46,199
Paul George and the Clippers, because I said, like, why

2612
01:56:46,199 --> 01:56:48,800
wouldn't you preserve the asset? Why wouldn't Why wouldn't you

2613
01:56:48,840 --> 01:56:51,439
just pay him whatever you need to pay him and

2614
01:56:51,439 --> 01:56:53,680
then trade him because you get something instead of letting

2615
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:55,199
him walk, because what are you going to do with

2616
01:56:55,239 --> 01:56:58,399
that money? I wonder if or do you think now

2617
01:56:59,079 --> 01:57:02,920
with teams with just the new rules, nobody's really totally

2618
01:57:02,960 --> 01:57:05,479
figured out how to like win the game with the

2619
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:08,520
new current rules. And I wonder if or if you

2620
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:13,039
think the value of just letting a guy walk or

2621
01:57:13,439 --> 01:57:16,159
is there now value because you can be like you

2622
01:57:16,359 --> 01:57:19,000
just want the clean books, because there's nothing worse now

2623
01:57:19,239 --> 01:57:22,239
than being stuck on money. That's like bad to like

2624
01:57:22,359 --> 01:57:27,479
moderately bad because it just inflexibility is everywhere the rules,

2625
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:31,239
that's harder to make trades just with aggregation, and can't

2626
01:57:31,279 --> 01:57:33,079
take back more than more than you sent, all this

2627
01:57:33,119 --> 01:57:36,079
other stuff depending on which apron you're in. I wonder

2628
01:57:36,359 --> 01:57:40,600
if you think maybe now there's increased value in the

2629
01:57:40,640 --> 01:57:44,000
heat saying, for example, you will stay here the rest

2630
01:57:44,079 --> 01:57:46,359
of the year, you can opt out and you can leave,

2631
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:49,319
and we'll be happy to move on without having taken

2632
01:57:49,359 --> 01:57:51,600
back money we maybe didn't want in a trade and

2633
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:53,840
a lot of it because this is fifty million bucks.

2634
01:57:54,680 --> 01:57:58,359
And if that's true, does that revive free agency which

2635
01:57:58,359 --> 01:58:00,600
has been a complaint everybody's had, is like nobody moves

2636
01:58:00,640 --> 01:58:03,159
in free agency anymore. All these extensions, all these whatevers,

2637
01:58:03,199 --> 01:58:05,880
all these trades. Do you see the connection there where

2638
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:08,439
it's like if suddenly teams are willing to let guys

2639
01:58:08,479 --> 01:58:10,600
walk and hit free agency, they're not afraid of that.

2640
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:13,960
I do think it's possible that we see a return

2641
01:58:14,079 --> 01:58:18,359
to where's Jimmy Butler gonna sign or where's the whoever's

2642
01:58:18,399 --> 01:58:21,359
next year? Like I think those two things might be linked.

2643
01:58:22,119 --> 01:58:24,760
Speaker 1: That's an interest. I hadn't thought about it through that lens,

2644
01:58:24,840 --> 01:58:26,800
And you might be right, because did we kind of

2645
01:58:26,840 --> 01:58:31,399
see this on smaller different scales where Washington probably could

2646
01:58:31,399 --> 01:58:33,239
have gotten a second round pick or two for Tyas

2647
01:58:33,279 --> 01:58:36,000
Jones and made the active decision to say, we'll let

2648
01:58:36,079 --> 01:58:37,880
him walk. We're better off having him for the rest

2649
01:58:37,880 --> 01:58:40,319
of the season. And then even with Paul George and

2650
01:58:40,319 --> 01:58:42,560
the Clippers, they kind of made they they knew he

2651
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:45,199
wasn't signing the extension that they offered him, and they

2652
01:58:45,279 --> 01:58:47,439
knew what he wanted, and they kept him anyway. And

2653
01:58:47,479 --> 01:58:50,439
then even the offer like the most aggressive offers came

2654
01:58:50,439 --> 01:58:53,319
from Denver and Golden State apparently to get him via

2655
01:58:53,399 --> 01:58:55,560
signing trade a sigre from the Sixers, they made the

2656
01:58:55,600 --> 01:58:57,560
decision to let him walk for nothing because they didn't

2657
01:58:57,560 --> 01:58:59,520
want some of that money on the books. And you

2658
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:01,800
could still go back. And does that still make the

2659
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:04,359
most amount of sense? I had not thought about it

2660
01:59:04,359 --> 01:59:07,359
that way, But I guess it's all relative to you

2661
01:59:07,399 --> 01:59:09,960
know what you're gonna get back, and I guess what

2662
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:12,680
you're saying, though, to actually be less generalized about the

2663
01:59:12,680 --> 01:59:16,880
way I'm responding to it is, well, previously you would

2664
01:59:16,880 --> 01:59:18,359
have said, we'll just get what you can for a

2665
01:59:18,359 --> 01:59:20,560
player you know you're gonna leave. But now if get

2666
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,720
what you can means throw away first round picks and

2667
01:59:23,800 --> 01:59:27,800
money on our books, beyond even Jimmy Butler's contract, why

2668
01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:30,920
do it? And maybe that flexibility They're not gonna do

2669
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:33,840
anything with that additional flexibility and will they even have

2670
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:36,199
it depending on they're paying Terry Rozier and they have

2671
01:59:36,239 --> 01:59:38,840
Tyler hero bam Adebayo. But it's well, we didn't hamstring

2672
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:40,920
ourselves with players we didn't want, and okay, we punted

2673
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:44,039
on like a first round. And that's the other thing though,

2674
01:59:44,079 --> 01:59:47,159
because you mentioned before we started recording this that the

2675
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:49,720
Heat want if they make a trade with the Dubs,

2676
01:59:49,960 --> 01:59:52,479
they want Jonathan Mingo back in any deal, Like, what

2677
01:59:52,640 --> 01:59:54,600
is the team that is then gonna come in with,

2678
01:59:54,680 --> 01:59:57,560
because what is Jimmy Butler's value? And it will vary

2679
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:01,479
by team, but which team should be the most desperate

2680
02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:04,880
to get Jimmy Butler that actually has more because you

2681
02:00:04,880 --> 02:00:07,600
could argue that, yes, the Sun should be desperate to

2682
02:00:07,640 --> 02:00:10,439
get Jimmy Butler. But that's the exact type of package

2683
02:00:10,439 --> 02:00:15,479
where it's what is my I still tend to romanticize

2684
02:00:15,479 --> 02:00:17,119
those distant first round picks. So if you're gonna get

2685
02:00:17,119 --> 02:00:19,279
a twenty thirty one Phoenix first round pick and you

2686
02:00:19,319 --> 02:00:21,680
have to take on Bradley Beal, I might consider it

2687
02:00:21,760 --> 02:00:23,600
is the rather than go the route of letting Jimmy

2688
02:00:23,600 --> 02:00:26,880
Butler's money come off. But I hadn't thought of what

2689
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:29,520
you were saying, and I think you might be right.

2690
02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:32,520
And does that stance though, even if it doesn't directly

2691
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:35,359
contribute to the returner free agency? Do we see like,

2692
02:00:35,479 --> 02:00:38,119
is it a better negotiating position for the Heat to

2693
02:00:38,159 --> 02:00:41,159
where oh, it really looks like they're gonna let keep

2694
02:00:41,239 --> 02:00:43,920
him and we just saw the Clippers do this. Does

2695
02:00:43,960 --> 02:00:46,600
that make other teams who really want him or quote

2696
02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:49,000
unquote need him more inclined to up their offer?

2697
02:00:49,239 --> 02:00:51,640
Speaker 2: I think in general, anytime those teams do this all

2698
02:00:51,680 --> 02:00:55,039
the time, they project like they try to drive up

2699
02:00:55,079 --> 02:00:57,960
offers by saying we love this guy or we're not

2700
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:01,000
gonna trade him, just because that conveys, well, you're gonna

2701
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:02,439
really gonna have to blow us away because we're not

2702
02:01:02,479 --> 02:01:04,920
going to take. You know, we're not even interested. You know,

2703
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:07,000
it's just a pretty standard negotiating thing. I do think

2704
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:11,880
that with teams specifically like Miami. Now, my like theory,

2705
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:16,079
if it's even rises to that, I think doesn't apply universally.

2706
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:19,720
Like it works in Miami. It might work. Look at

2707
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:21,640
the teams that we're talking about. The Clippers did it.

2708
02:01:21,680 --> 02:01:25,039
That's a free agent destination, LA all right, Like Miami

2709
02:01:25,079 --> 02:01:26,399
can do it. Miami is going to be a free

2710
02:01:26,439 --> 02:01:29,479
agent destination like Memphis in New Orleans. If you say

2711
02:01:29,520 --> 02:01:31,119
we'll just let them walk, we don't need it, Like

2712
02:01:31,199 --> 02:01:35,720
that's less of a good idea because your ability to

2713
02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:38,439
do something with your flexibility and the cash you're saving

2714
02:01:38,520 --> 02:01:41,239
or whatever in free agency just isn't what it is

2715
02:01:41,279 --> 02:01:43,439
for these big market teams that free agents want to

2716
02:01:43,479 --> 02:01:46,279
go to. But I think I think it does give

2717
02:01:46,439 --> 02:01:50,359
Miami negotiating leverage, and I think specifically Miami probably has

2718
02:01:50,439 --> 02:01:54,560
reason to believe the value like flexibility and not having

2719
02:01:54,560 --> 02:01:57,079
bad money is better for Miami than it is for

2720
02:01:57,600 --> 02:01:59,680
a lot of other teams because of what it can

2721
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:03,239
exp in free agency, Like flexibility just matters more if

2722
02:02:03,239 --> 02:02:06,079
you have more opportunities to add talent through as many

2723
02:02:06,079 --> 02:02:08,439
means as possible, and not every team is on equal

2724
02:02:08,479 --> 02:02:11,199
footing that way. So like of the total revival of

2725
02:02:11,239 --> 02:02:13,920
free agency, Like maybe I'm overstating it, but like in

2726
02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:17,119
some isolated cases, I do think it's gonna make more

2727
02:02:17,119 --> 02:02:20,000
sense to just say I don't want Bradley Beal and

2728
02:02:20,079 --> 02:02:23,359
another year that salary and other stuff for Butler. I

2729
02:02:23,399 --> 02:02:26,000
would rather just have the ability to do what I

2730
02:02:26,039 --> 02:02:28,560
want with my and I don't want encumbrances, you know,

2731
02:02:28,600 --> 02:02:30,760
even if they come with sweeteners like distant picks.

2732
02:02:32,239 --> 02:02:34,239
Speaker 1: Could that also bring about the return of Well, then

2733
02:02:34,279 --> 02:02:36,479
we're just gonna maybe it doesn't bring about the return

2734
02:02:36,479 --> 02:02:40,520
of free agency, but we see the reprioritization of getting

2735
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:43,319
back short term contracts because you can also argue the

2736
02:02:43,319 --> 02:02:46,279
mechanism to up the value of Jimmy Butler would be well,

2737
02:02:46,319 --> 02:02:48,560
if there are unsavory deals, I don't even I mean

2738
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:51,119
Bradley Beal would be one, but the Sons don't have

2739
02:02:51,199 --> 02:02:53,199
the assets to attach. Is there another team where it's

2740
02:02:53,399 --> 02:02:55,039
we're taking back this money we don't want. But like

2741
02:02:55,079 --> 02:02:57,479
that was the difference between us getting two first round

2742
02:02:57,479 --> 02:02:59,119
picks and one first round pick for Jimmy.

2743
02:02:58,920 --> 02:03:04,079
Speaker 2: Butler, maybe I think, like to use the Beal example,

2744
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:07,880
I don't know, Yeah, I guess, I don't know. I

2745
02:03:07,880 --> 02:03:09,680
don't know. I'm not sure what my answer is to that.

2746
02:03:10,159 --> 02:03:14,239
I just think, like Beal being an example, teams that

2747
02:03:14,520 --> 02:03:18,199
have the kinds of contracts that, like the Heat, would

2748
02:03:18,239 --> 02:03:20,000
like to avoid getting back if they can just to

2749
02:03:20,079 --> 02:03:23,600
use this specific example, like the sweet and the Sons

2750
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:26,239
can't sweeten it with first unless they do your Ryan dundeal.

2751
02:03:27,079 --> 02:03:30,880
But like, I don't think teams like that are gonna

2752
02:03:30,920 --> 02:03:35,680
have the sweeteners to like make it worthwhile to really

2753
02:03:35,800 --> 02:03:38,119
to tip the scales in favor of we'll take this

2754
02:03:38,199 --> 02:03:40,840
bad money because teams like teams in that position, Like,

2755
02:03:41,479 --> 02:03:43,079
I don't know, it's hard to do this without more

2756
02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:45,840
specific examples. It's just I don't know. I guess what

2757
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:48,520
I'm saying is increasingly the idea of just not taking

2758
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:51,520
back anything I don't want, regardless of what I might

2759
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:54,319
want that's coming with it starts to have more appeal

2760
02:03:54,359 --> 02:03:56,600
to me, like from the Heat's perspective, like just just

2761
02:03:57,079 --> 02:03:59,279
and this is coming from someone that like nothing makes

2762
02:03:59,279 --> 02:04:01,520
me happier than rowing things away because it feel like

2763
02:04:01,520 --> 02:04:04,560
it simplifies my life and so like the team, I

2764
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:06,920
would be constantly like, you want to leave, great, I

2765
02:04:06,920 --> 02:04:09,520
don't want anything back. That's gonna be clutter like that's

2766
02:04:09,720 --> 02:04:11,640
I might not be the best person to pull on

2767
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:12,239
the subject.

2768
02:04:13,039 --> 02:04:15,800
Speaker 1: And but this gets to the point though, of okay,

2769
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:19,119
so then what is Let's start with the teams that

2770
02:04:19,199 --> 02:04:22,960
were on his initial list. The MAVs are non starter,

2771
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:26,239
I do you buy. We've talked already about the Rockets

2772
02:04:26,279 --> 02:04:27,880
don't want to make a mid season trade, and they've

2773
02:04:27,880 --> 02:04:30,800
also prioritized getting someone on their timeline. I kind of

2774
02:04:30,880 --> 02:04:32,439
view them as a non starter as well.

2775
02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:33,920
Speaker 2: I would agree.

2776
02:04:34,159 --> 02:04:37,239
Speaker 1: I would agree the Suns I view as a non

2777
02:04:37,279 --> 02:04:39,880
starter for the Heat as of right now. I honestly

2778
02:04:39,920 --> 02:04:42,760
don't know if if you got I'm gonna say the

2779
02:04:42,840 --> 02:04:45,560
number twenty five pick in this year's draft, a twenty

2780
02:04:45,640 --> 02:04:49,399
thirty one Sons pick unprotected, and then Bradley Beal waves

2781
02:04:49,399 --> 02:04:52,439
his no trade clause. That's like basically what they're top.

2782
02:04:52,720 --> 02:04:55,319
That's that's conceptually, by the way, because we're assuming they

2783
02:04:55,319 --> 02:04:58,319
could get a first round pick for Ryan Dunn. Are

2784
02:04:58,319 --> 02:04:59,800
you doing that trade? Is Miami?

2785
02:05:00,199 --> 02:05:03,159
Speaker 2: I think so Beal has next year and one more

2786
02:05:03,239 --> 02:05:04,560
or is it just he has a.

2787
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:06,880
Speaker 1: Player option, but he's probably assume he's probably gonna PA.

2788
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:09,359
Speaker 2: I don't want that contract, Like you just saw a

2789
02:05:09,399 --> 02:05:11,520
team pay to get off of it, Like I don't.

2790
02:05:11,560 --> 02:05:14,319
I don't want it. So yeah, I guess they're I mean,

2791
02:05:14,319 --> 02:05:16,520
we're just talking theoretically because the offer you said, like

2792
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:18,119
you said, just the Suns can't do.

2793
02:05:18,119 --> 02:05:21,039
Speaker 1: It, clear I would give up the Like I'm trying

2794
02:05:21,039 --> 02:05:23,680
to think of a team I like used Boston, Like

2795
02:05:23,720 --> 02:05:25,439
you could use Jayden and Springer tech lead, but then

2796
02:05:25,439 --> 02:05:26,600
you need to find a team and take on jay

2797
02:05:26,600 --> 02:05:29,920
and Springer because the money's all wonky. But like I

2798
02:05:29,960 --> 02:05:31,760
think I would give up a late first round pick

2799
02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:33,520
for Ryan Dunn. I don't know if I'm kind of

2800
02:05:33,560 --> 02:05:35,960
overstating that. So like even one of these younger teams,

2801
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:37,840
like if the Jazz think they have a throwaway first

2802
02:05:37,920 --> 02:05:40,000
round pick, like just go out there and get like

2803
02:05:40,039 --> 02:05:43,600
to Yeah, I don't know, but I don't think based

2804
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:45,800
off what Miami is saying, their messaging would indicate that, no,

2805
02:05:45,800 --> 02:05:48,319
they don't want Bradley Beal's contract. But I would also

2806
02:05:48,399 --> 02:05:51,600
say Bradley bial is someone that could in theory play

2807
02:05:51,840 --> 02:05:54,039
and you don't own your first round, Like you're not

2808
02:05:54,079 --> 02:05:56,560
going to regain control of your draft in theory until

2809
02:05:56,560 --> 02:05:59,039
after twenty twenty seven, Like you're not kind of out

2810
02:05:59,039 --> 02:06:03,479
of those obligations, but they're probably well, it's probably even

2811
02:06:03,520 --> 02:06:04,880
gonna wave his no trade cause to go to a

2812
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:06,720
worst team or right in theory, it could be a

2813
02:06:06,720 --> 02:06:07,279
worse team.

2814
02:06:07,439 --> 02:06:09,920
Speaker 2: That's the thing. Like there's so many barriers, so that

2815
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:13,079
leaves the Warriors, right, and that's the team where if

2816
02:06:13,079 --> 02:06:16,840
you're Miami and you're being offered Kaminga Wiggins to first

2817
02:06:17,399 --> 02:06:20,119
a couple a little bit more matching salary, you should

2818
02:06:20,159 --> 02:06:22,479
do that. If you're the Heat, you should absolutely do that.

2819
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:25,039
And like that no question my counter would be.

2820
02:06:25,039 --> 02:06:26,720
Speaker 1: In this is coming as someone who proposed the more

2821
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:30,000
ambitious trade from the Warriors and way before these trade demands,

2822
02:06:30,399 --> 02:06:32,880
I'm not giving If I'm giving up Johnathan Kaminga, I

2823
02:06:32,920 --> 02:06:35,000
will give you this year's first round pick and we'll

2824
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:36,279
figure out a way to make the money work. And

2825
02:06:36,279 --> 02:06:38,800
that is it. That is not like Jimmy Butler has

2826
02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:41,479
requested a trade. He's headed towards free agency, Like that's

2827
02:06:41,479 --> 02:06:43,680
where my offer's gonna max that maybe they don't want

2828
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:45,760
to pay Jimmy Butler, but they also might not Would

2829
02:06:45,760 --> 02:06:47,399
we rather pay Jimmy Butler for the next two years

2830
02:06:47,479 --> 02:06:49,560
or do we want to pay Johnathan Kaminga for four years?

2831
02:06:49,600 --> 02:06:51,479
That's an interesting discussion to have.

2832
02:06:51,760 --> 02:06:53,920
Speaker 2: Right absolutely, And if so, if you're the Heat, and

2833
02:06:54,159 --> 02:06:56,000
I was gonna say, I think the fact that the

2834
02:06:56,000 --> 02:06:59,279
Warriors are probably the only game in town means that

2835
02:06:59,359 --> 02:07:01,960
now the Heater, we would like to have Butler's money

2836
02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:04,880
off the books and no encumbrances against the type of

2837
02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:07,279
offer you're talking about where it's it might not be

2838
02:07:07,359 --> 02:07:09,359
two firsts, it might need to you know, the Warriors

2839
02:07:09,359 --> 02:07:11,680
can hardball it a little bit because there's no competition.

2840
02:07:12,199 --> 02:07:15,239
So like there are certain things that just have to

2841
02:07:15,239 --> 02:07:17,800
be in the deal. Kaminga seems like he's one of them,

2842
02:07:17,960 --> 02:07:20,800
but like Wiggins also has to be in the deal.

2843
02:07:20,880 --> 02:07:22,960
And if that's the case, like, if you're the Heat,

2844
02:07:23,000 --> 02:07:25,800
you should take that. You should take wigs in Kaminga

2845
02:07:25,960 --> 02:07:29,720
and filler for Butler without picks, Like I think so

2846
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:32,800
the Warriors like could be in a position of advantage here,

2847
02:07:33,199 --> 02:07:35,279
except that goes back to their side of it is

2848
02:07:35,319 --> 02:07:37,079
like do you want to do you want to rent

2849
02:07:37,119 --> 02:07:40,119
Jimmy Butler and or then pay him fifty million dollars

2850
02:07:40,159 --> 02:07:41,720
a year for two more years. I don't know the

2851
02:07:41,760 --> 02:07:43,600
answer to that. I lean towards no, don't.

2852
02:07:43,640 --> 02:07:45,520
Speaker 1: John Thaankaminga's had like three good games in a row,

2853
02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:46,600
so I don't think that you could wrong.

2854
02:07:46,640 --> 02:07:48,600
Speaker 2: Time to ask right, it's untouchable again.

2855
02:07:48,920 --> 02:07:51,319
Speaker 1: Well, and also if the if the Heat are gonna

2856
02:07:51,319 --> 02:07:53,760
accept that type of offer, and I think this is

2857
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:55,479
the best spot to move on to at least one

2858
02:07:55,479 --> 02:07:57,840
of the reports, execs are wondering about a certain team,

2859
02:07:58,199 --> 02:08:01,640
but are there just better suited trade partners then? Because

2860
02:08:01,640 --> 02:08:03,640
the thing with that offer is, well, now we have

2861
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:06,840
to turn around and pay Jonathan Kaminga. What even if

2862
02:08:06,840 --> 02:08:08,399
you like him, but now we have to pay him

2863
02:08:08,399 --> 02:08:10,279
for let's say a minimum. I guess you could go

2864
02:08:10,399 --> 02:08:12,880
the three year route, but part of the appeal would

2865
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:14,520
be no, we want that deal to stretch out as

2866
02:08:14,680 --> 02:08:16,079
like you don't want to do what Houston did with

2867
02:08:16,159 --> 02:08:19,720
Jalen Green for instance, where he's basically a placeholder. It

2868
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:22,560
feels like there so are there better teams suited? And

2869
02:08:22,560 --> 02:08:25,079
one of the ones that was mentioned was execs told

2870
02:08:25,119 --> 02:08:27,760
Michael Scotto of hoops Ype they think the Nugget should

2871
02:08:27,760 --> 02:08:31,359
make a run at Jimmy Butler using Michael Porter Junior's deal. Now,

2872
02:08:31,479 --> 02:08:33,960
Denver can only include hiss of right now one conditional

2873
02:08:33,960 --> 02:08:37,359
first round pick in twenty thirty one. Butler makes forty

2874
02:08:37,399 --> 02:08:39,319
eight point eight million this year, so the deal would

2875
02:08:39,319 --> 02:08:44,039
basically have to be MPJ, Naji and Sharich for Jimmy

2876
02:08:44,039 --> 02:08:48,359
Butler and Alec Burks. And you could expand that include

2877
02:08:48,359 --> 02:08:50,600
a bunch of different teams. And if the heat like

2878
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:52,760
one of the youngsters, maybe Denver's willing to give up

2879
02:08:53,079 --> 02:08:55,079
Christian Brown. I think they wouldn't, but like if they

2880
02:08:55,079 --> 02:08:57,920
were willing to give up Julian Strather, you could expand it.

2881
02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:00,479
Is therere a team to take on Charlotte or Nay

2882
02:09:00,680 --> 02:09:03,920
Naugy or I don't think they would give up Peyton Watson,

2883
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:06,720
but like that would be a conversation to have. I

2884
02:09:06,760 --> 02:09:08,239
have other teams I want to throw at you. But

2885
02:09:08,239 --> 02:09:10,840
do you view this as if you're from whose side?

2886
02:09:10,880 --> 02:09:13,239
Let's start from Denver side, because I think it's always

2887
02:09:13,239 --> 02:09:15,840
easy for us to say Miami will say no, if

2888
02:09:15,880 --> 02:09:18,680
you're Denver, it's costing you. I'm gonna say it costs

2889
02:09:18,680 --> 02:09:21,239
you one of your youngsters. That's not Christian Brown, your

2890
02:09:21,319 --> 02:09:24,640
only first round pick MPJ. But you're also getting off

2891
02:09:24,680 --> 02:09:26,520
Chards and nause which would be part of the value

2892
02:09:26,560 --> 02:09:29,399
for you. Are you ultimately making that deal?

2893
02:09:29,720 --> 02:09:32,920
Speaker 2: I think I am, and and that might have to

2894
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:35,880
do with I I think a feature of it might

2895
02:09:35,920 --> 02:09:41,079
be being off mpg's deal. Like you probably you probably

2896
02:09:41,119 --> 02:09:44,279
replace it with Butler's, but maybe you don't. And so

2897
02:09:44,399 --> 02:09:46,079
if what you get out of this is a title

2898
02:09:46,159 --> 02:09:48,439
run with Butler this year and then you have slightly

2899
02:09:48,439 --> 02:09:51,680
cleaner books with MPJ not being on the on them anymore,

2900
02:09:52,039 --> 02:09:54,880
that's you could frame that as like a decent like

2901
02:09:55,439 --> 02:09:58,600
damage control aspect of the trade, which has some favorable

2902
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:02,560
sides to it. I think I do it. Uh are you?

2903
02:10:02,680 --> 02:10:04,239
Where are you on it? You don't like it?

2904
02:10:04,479 --> 02:10:06,560
Speaker 1: They probably do it because you're getting off two deals

2905
02:10:06,600 --> 02:10:09,079
that in retrospect, one of them we at least one

2906
02:10:09,119 --> 02:10:10,479
of them we knew in the moment with charge never

2907
02:10:10,520 --> 02:10:12,399
should have been given out in the first place. I

2908
02:10:12,399 --> 02:10:16,079
guess I don't view. Is Michael Porter Junior on his

2909
02:10:16,119 --> 02:10:20,039
contract a more precarious asset than Jimmy Butler on his

2910
02:10:20,119 --> 02:10:22,279
next contract? Is what this would come down to? Because

2911
02:10:22,479 --> 02:10:24,600
the spacing stuff would worry me. But like, if there's

2912
02:10:24,640 --> 02:10:26,279
any offense that could just figure out how to be

2913
02:10:26,359 --> 02:10:29,840
top five while lowering their three point volume, still it's

2914
02:10:29,880 --> 02:10:33,239
the one that has the greatest player alive and Nicole Yokich, Yeah,

2915
02:10:33,479 --> 02:10:36,199
I just I wonder is this it's sort of I

2916
02:10:36,239 --> 02:10:39,560
won't even say optimizes. It increases their ceiling, yes, but

2917
02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:42,640
I also feel like short term end long term, it

2918
02:10:42,680 --> 02:10:43,680
might lower their floor.

2919
02:10:43,840 --> 02:10:45,960
Speaker 2: I think that's right. I think that's absolutely right, And

2920
02:10:46,039 --> 02:10:48,800
I think you might need to just worry about the

2921
02:10:48,840 --> 02:10:52,880
ceiling for now because like you can't. Yo Kic is

2922
02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:54,920
different than like Fox, where it's like I don't know

2923
02:10:54,920 --> 02:10:57,920
if this team's going anywhere, Like yo Kich is the ultimate,

2924
02:10:58,239 --> 02:11:00,439
Like you need to honor this guy, like you need

2925
02:11:00,600 --> 02:11:02,760
like he's the best player in the world. You have

2926
02:11:02,840 --> 02:11:06,119
to be making win now moves, and we've criticized them

2927
02:11:06,159 --> 02:11:08,319
for not doing that by letting the Casey Pee leaves,

2928
02:11:08,319 --> 02:11:10,560
and it's just like you have to do this. This

2929
02:11:10,680 --> 02:11:12,159
they it makes more sense for them than a lot

2930
02:11:12,159 --> 02:11:14,800
of other teams. And I think it's a reasonable question.

2931
02:11:14,880 --> 02:11:16,720
Would you rather have Butler for two more years at

2932
02:11:16,720 --> 02:11:20,600
fifty or MPG? At what like thirty eight or forty.

2933
02:11:20,720 --> 02:11:23,000
I think if you're talking ceiling at the answer is Butler,

2934
02:11:23,560 --> 02:11:26,039
you're talking floor, it probably is Porter. But because I

2935
02:11:26,039 --> 02:11:28,439
think earlier could just not be helpful.

2936
02:11:28,359 --> 02:11:30,520
Speaker 1: I think you're right. How do the heat view that

2937
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:34,199
where it's what they're getting back. Let's say is let's

2938
02:11:34,199 --> 02:11:36,760
say they have to take on Nase, they get a

2939
02:11:36,800 --> 02:11:39,159
youngster that's not Christian Brown, they get that first round

2940
02:11:39,199 --> 02:11:42,560
pick an MPJ, so or say Nause or Sharg one

2941
02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:44,000
of those teams. You figure out a way to send

2942
02:11:44,039 --> 02:11:46,319
them another place. I still it's easier to move out,

2943
02:11:46,319 --> 02:11:49,159
are you, Tario Sharz. That Naji deal goes on forever. Yeah,

2944
02:11:49,199 --> 02:11:51,800
it feels like, you know, shout out to Grace Gene,

2945
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:53,760
who had corrected me. I said, like he signed it

2946
02:11:53,880 --> 02:11:55,880
like two or three summers ago, and it was like no,

2947
02:11:56,000 --> 02:11:58,159
like that happened more recently. It feels like he's been

2948
02:11:58,199 --> 02:12:01,479
on that deal forever. So you're probably taking on Nause

2949
02:12:01,640 --> 02:12:04,680
with MPJ. I'll just say strather and then that first

2950
02:12:04,760 --> 02:12:06,359
round pick. Is that enough for you to move off

2951
02:12:06,399 --> 02:12:09,520
the stance that you were previously describing of if we're

2952
02:12:09,560 --> 02:12:11,600
just not getting back enough things that we like, we'll

2953
02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:14,760
take the even if not the flexibility, like the financial

2954
02:12:14,840 --> 02:12:15,520
breathing room.

2955
02:12:15,880 --> 02:12:19,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's close because like and now, the

2956
02:12:19,239 --> 02:12:21,239
way you've set the hypothetical up, they're not taking on

2957
02:12:21,319 --> 02:12:23,680
both of them. But the nause and SARCH deals are

2958
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:27,439
kind of exactly what they might be trying to avoid

2959
02:12:27,560 --> 02:12:29,439
in taking the posture of we'll just let them walk.

2960
02:12:30,439 --> 02:12:34,279
And even MPG maybe maybe that's money. Like it's debatable,

2961
02:12:34,359 --> 02:12:37,079
right whether MPJ is like a positive value contract.

2962
02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:39,880
Speaker 1: There's no way he's a positive value contract. I don't

2963
02:12:39,880 --> 02:12:42,199
think is that uture or worse?

2964
02:12:42,680 --> 02:12:46,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so that would give me pause. But if

2965
02:12:46,399 --> 02:12:48,920
it's and if the Warriors are like, we're leaving the table,

2966
02:12:48,920 --> 02:12:51,800
because I think you'd just rather have KAMINGA Wiggins, Gary

2967
02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:54,920
Payton or whatever they're expiring you could get, because then

2968
02:12:54,960 --> 02:12:56,600
you at least no.

2969
02:12:57,840 --> 02:13:00,279
Speaker 1: This is the problemise. I tend to value those because

2970
02:13:00,319 --> 02:13:03,239
I don't think the Warriors you're not getting. If you

2971
02:13:03,239 --> 02:13:04,680
make a trader with the Warriors at this point and

2972
02:13:04,680 --> 02:13:07,960
they're giving you a first round pick that spans later

2973
02:13:08,399 --> 02:13:11,399
than twenty twenty six, I would be shocked.

2974
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:12,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so the.

2975
02:13:12,159 --> 02:13:15,359
Speaker 1: Idea of getting a twenty thirty one Denver pick is

2976
02:13:15,439 --> 02:13:18,079
just like I mean, pat Riley's probably not thinking six

2977
02:13:18,159 --> 02:13:20,359
years in the future to be fair. So there's that.

2978
02:13:20,640 --> 02:13:23,680
But I don't know, man, that's a tough one for

2979
02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:27,000
me because you have to pay Kaminga whose deal Woolen

2980
02:13:27,079 --> 02:13:30,479
theory then go longer than mpj's. But could you also

2981
02:13:30,600 --> 02:13:33,960
argue that, all right, MPJ is at thirty eight point

2982
02:13:34,239 --> 02:13:37,199
three next year than forty point eight. Is Kaminga just

2983
02:13:37,439 --> 02:13:40,119
not even gonna touch that average annual value? I don't like.

2984
02:13:40,159 --> 02:13:42,399
I wouldn't give Jonathan Kminga thirty million dollars a year

2985
02:13:42,479 --> 02:13:43,359
right now, I don't think.

2986
02:13:43,399 --> 02:13:48,840
Speaker 2: I don't think so. The Warriors basically didn't. It's he

2987
02:13:49,000 --> 02:13:51,640
didn't take that. I think thirty was the number, and

2988
02:13:51,680 --> 02:13:53,920
he's like if it if the difference was between thirty

2989
02:13:53,960 --> 02:13:56,880
and thirty five, that's I don't know about. That's weird.

2990
02:13:57,600 --> 02:13:59,239
Speaker 1: He should if thirty was on the table, he should

2991
02:13:59,239 --> 02:13:59,960
have signed. He should have.

2992
02:14:00,479 --> 02:14:03,119
Speaker 2: But that's just not how he and his camp are wired.

2993
02:14:03,159 --> 02:14:05,680
I don't think, and again can't blame him like I

2994
02:14:06,159 --> 02:14:10,279
think maybe maybe he's at we can't talk about him

2995
02:14:10,319 --> 02:14:13,279
in anymore. So, Yeah, I think that Denver deal, that's

2996
02:14:13,279 --> 02:14:16,520
when you think about for sure, if you're Miami, especially

2997
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:19,800
if like as we've kind of gone through, your options

2998
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:22,479
are pretty limited. Otherwise, do you have what are some

2999
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:24,039
other teams that we can think about?

3000
02:14:24,079 --> 02:14:29,479
Speaker 1: Here? The Hawks, DeAndre Hunter, Clint Capella who's expiring, and

3001
02:14:29,520 --> 02:14:32,319
then they own the King's pick this year. They have

3002
02:14:32,359 --> 02:14:36,000
the Lakers pick this year. Is that a deal and

3003
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:37,760
Atlanta would be in the tax after that deal, so

3004
02:14:37,760 --> 02:14:39,640
you just figure out a way to shave off salary elsewhere.

3005
02:14:39,680 --> 02:14:41,960
But as a baseline, if that's what Intlanta'd be giving

3006
02:14:42,039 --> 02:14:43,680
up is a first round pick that's not their own.

3007
02:14:43,680 --> 02:14:45,600
I mean, they could give up a twenty twenty nine

3008
02:14:45,600 --> 02:14:49,600
Atlanta first, but I would argue vehe against doing that

3009
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:52,000
one exactly, don't do that. So you're looking at and

3010
02:14:52,039 --> 02:14:55,119
I would probably say they're gonna give you. I would

3011
02:14:55,119 --> 02:14:57,159
say the worst of the Kings of the Lakers pick

3012
02:14:57,760 --> 02:15:00,239
plus DeAndre Hunter and Clin Cappella, or maybe say the

3013
02:15:00,279 --> 02:15:01,880
better of I don't care, but it's one of those

3014
02:15:02,319 --> 02:15:05,720
plus Hunter and Capella. Let's start with Atlanta, because again

3015
02:15:05,720 --> 02:15:07,479
I think these are just easier to tackle form. Would

3016
02:15:07,479 --> 02:15:10,439
you if you're Atlanta, are you thinking like and by

3017
02:15:10,479 --> 02:15:13,279
the way, cause you mentioned this with Atlanta before, they

3018
02:15:13,279 --> 02:15:16,119
do not control their next three draft picks. This year's

3019
02:15:16,359 --> 02:15:18,800
a swap next year, and then twenty twenty seven, the

3020
02:15:18,800 --> 02:15:20,239
Spurs all have control over those.

3021
02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'd be worried as Atlanta for the

3022
02:15:24,319 --> 02:15:28,239
five straight years of All Star seasons DeAndre Hunter would

3023
02:15:28,239 --> 02:15:30,520
have With the Heat, you'd feel pretty bad about that.

3024
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:33,119
Speaker 1: We've been playing well this year, and there's they're also

3025
02:15:33,159 --> 02:15:35,439
in a weird is there another contract? Let's say that

3026
02:15:35,840 --> 02:15:37,840
the Heat are only interested, like maybe you're even wanting

3027
02:15:37,880 --> 02:15:39,600
to give up both the Lakers and Kings picks for

3028
02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:42,319
some reason. Is there another You look at their books

3029
02:15:42,359 --> 02:15:44,279
and it's like, who are you trying to get? Like

3030
02:15:44,359 --> 02:15:46,399
bog Dot Bogdanovich has a ton of value to you,

3031
02:15:46,479 --> 02:15:49,359
even Hunter, you're not looking at other contracts big Oh,

3032
02:15:49,359 --> 02:15:50,840
we'll just throw it in here to get to Jimmy

3033
02:15:50,840 --> 02:15:53,199
Butler's money. They don't have another one of those big

3034
02:15:53,199 --> 02:15:55,920
money deals. That's because on Yaka Kungu, that's not necessarily

3035
02:15:55,960 --> 02:15:57,680
a deal, especially if you're treating quin copella that you're

3036
02:15:57,720 --> 02:15:58,439
gonna want to flip.

3037
02:15:58,760 --> 02:16:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that's an interesting deal because like what I

3038
02:16:01,960 --> 02:16:05,439
would say because the Hawks don't control their next three drafts,

3039
02:16:05,760 --> 02:16:08,880
you'd worry about, like what about we could bottom out

3040
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:11,399
if we do trade stuff for Butler and he leaves,

3041
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:13,439
or we pay him a bunch of money and he's hurt,

3042
02:16:13,560 --> 02:16:16,439
and that turns into like, you know, not dead money

3043
02:16:16,439 --> 02:16:18,560
per se, but like pretty close to it. But if

3044
02:16:18,600 --> 02:16:20,560
you're just I mean, I really like Hunter. I think

3045
02:16:20,560 --> 02:16:22,399
he's had a great season. If it's Hunter and Capella

3046
02:16:22,760 --> 02:16:24,800
and it's like, all right, well, like you know, how

3047
02:16:24,880 --> 02:16:27,439
much worse are we? We still have Trey, you know,

3048
02:16:27,479 --> 02:16:29,359
they still have quite a bit. They wouldn't bought him

3049
02:16:29,359 --> 02:16:30,439
out necessarily.

3050
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:32,959
Speaker 1: Is it because you're getting Butler in the stuff he

3051
02:16:33,040 --> 02:16:36,600
does on ball? Would you feel better if, as Atlanta

3052
02:16:36,639 --> 02:16:40,440
by making it Larry Nansen bogged in Magdanovich plus Capella

3053
02:16:40,639 --> 02:16:41,760
rather than keeping Hunter.

3054
02:16:42,159 --> 02:16:44,159
Speaker 2: If I can keep I'm keeping Hunter.

3055
02:16:44,239 --> 02:16:46,840
Speaker 1: I think Daniels Hunter is actor ressa say Butler like

3056
02:16:46,879 --> 02:16:48,719
that does That's a lot of a lot of versatility

3057
02:16:48,719 --> 02:16:49,399
on the way it is.

3058
02:16:49,520 --> 02:16:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I like the fit honestly, because like I

3059
02:16:53,000 --> 02:16:55,280
don't you don't want Dyson Daniels having to playmake that

3060
02:16:55,399 --> 02:16:58,360
much like I mean, he's fine, but like you don't

3061
02:16:58,639 --> 02:17:00,920
anyone if it can be a young running the offense

3062
02:17:00,920 --> 02:17:03,000
and Jimmy Butler's helping and everybody else just like get

3063
02:17:03,000 --> 02:17:05,159
in where you fit in and shoot threes and defend

3064
02:17:05,200 --> 02:17:08,040
and be versatile. Like that's a pretty good theory of

3065
02:17:08,079 --> 02:17:08,440
a team.

3066
02:17:08,639 --> 02:17:11,600
Speaker 1: Honestly, you would prefer keeping Hunter or basically it's keeping

3067
02:17:11,639 --> 02:17:12,719
Hunter over Bogdanovic.

3068
02:17:13,120 --> 02:17:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, because you Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler

3069
02:17:15,799 --> 02:17:18,399
can be a primary playmaker sometimes, like you know, if

3070
02:17:18,399 --> 02:17:21,159
he's a second guy or runs backup units, like that's he's.

3071
02:17:21,680 --> 02:17:24,200
Speaker 1: Even though the percentages say differently. I'm just wondering, like

3072
02:17:24,239 --> 02:17:27,040
does like does that hurt their floorce basing somehow with

3073
02:17:27,120 --> 02:17:30,799
Bogdanovic going out rather than Hunter, But conceptually it shouldn't.

3074
02:17:30,799 --> 02:17:32,719
And now you're dealing. I mean, Bogdanovitch is older than

3075
02:17:32,760 --> 02:17:35,120
injury risk himself, So I think you're right. And I

3076
02:17:35,120 --> 02:17:36,920
don't think, by the way, if I'm the Heat and

3077
02:17:37,040 --> 02:17:39,760
apply for the other teams involved, because the amount of contracts,

3078
02:17:40,239 --> 02:17:43,120
I don't like Bogdanovich, Like that's not a deal breaker

3079
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:45,200
for me, that's not a terrible deal. So I actually

3080
02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:49,120
think if I'm Miami, I prefer Atlanta to Denver.

3081
02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I could see that.

3082
02:17:53,600 --> 02:17:55,520
Speaker 1: I keep that first round pick is pretty valuable.

3083
02:17:55,639 --> 02:17:58,959
Speaker 2: Well, but from Miami's perspective, the picks are just coming sooner,

3084
02:17:59,040 --> 02:18:00,760
right if you do the Atlanta deal as opposed to

3085
02:18:00,760 --> 02:18:04,200
we're just waiting seven years, six years for a for

3086
02:18:04,280 --> 02:18:06,879
a Denver pick. I don't know, are you trade?

3087
02:18:06,879 --> 02:18:10,200
Speaker 1: Would you trade both the twenty twenty five picks from

3088
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:13,879
the Kings and the Lakers to get Jimmy Butler? If

3089
02:18:13,920 --> 02:18:16,120
you and let's say you even get to pick the

3090
02:18:16,159 --> 02:18:18,319
outgoing salary that's attached to Clan Capella.

3091
02:18:18,440 --> 02:18:22,239
Speaker 2: In that scenario, those will both be outside. I was

3092
02:18:22,280 --> 02:18:24,239
gonna say the lottery, Well.

3093
02:18:24,079 --> 02:18:27,840
Speaker 1: The King is, the Lakers is unprotected, Yeah, the Kings is.

3094
02:18:27,920 --> 02:18:31,000
I think it dropped to top twelve or eleven protection.

3095
02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:34,000
I'll double check, but it's still it spills out. So

3096
02:18:34,040 --> 02:18:36,559
they get it from Sacramento. It's top twelve, and then

3097
02:18:36,559 --> 02:18:41,360
it's top ten, and then if it doesn't convey, they're

3098
02:18:41,399 --> 02:18:44,639
going to convey a twenty twenty six second round pick

3099
02:18:44,639 --> 02:18:45,920
in twenty twenty seven second round.

3100
02:18:45,920 --> 02:18:47,680
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a valuable pick.

3101
02:18:48,479 --> 02:18:50,440
Speaker 1: But if the Kings trade the Iron Fox though or

3102
02:18:50,479 --> 02:18:52,280
they and they don't send out the pick this.

3103
02:18:52,239 --> 02:18:55,760
Speaker 2: Show keep it. Yeah, yeah, I would give up.

3104
02:18:56,920 --> 02:18:59,159
Speaker 1: I give up both because I don't the Lakers aren't

3105
02:18:59,159 --> 02:19:00,799
going to get rid of Lebron on an AD right

3106
02:19:00,879 --> 02:19:03,600
this season, So what is that? Are you punting on

3107
02:19:03,639 --> 02:19:06,719
a late lottery pick at worst?

3108
02:19:07,120 --> 02:19:09,680
Speaker 2: If this were last year and everybody agreed the draft sucked,

3109
02:19:09,680 --> 02:19:11,280
that would do it in a heartbeat. I feel like

3110
02:19:11,719 --> 02:19:13,520
the depth of this one makes me think a little

3111
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:14,200
harder about it.

3112
02:19:14,520 --> 02:19:16,760
Speaker 1: I was listening to the Game Theory podcast with Samvasini

3113
02:19:16,799 --> 02:19:18,639
and he said he was having trouble like filling out

3114
02:19:18,639 --> 02:19:21,040
his big board once you got into the late teens

3115
02:19:21,079 --> 02:19:22,920
and twenties and so like, this is considered a very

3116
02:19:22,920 --> 02:19:25,520
top heavy draft, and so was Atlanta. I might feel

3117
02:19:25,799 --> 02:19:27,840
I would give up, especially if I get to pick

3118
02:19:27,879 --> 02:19:30,399
who gets attached to Clin Capella. I'm giving up both

3119
02:19:30,399 --> 02:19:31,600
those first, I think.

3120
02:19:31,520 --> 02:19:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think probably so so that might be a

3121
02:19:33,600 --> 02:19:36,079
better deal because you're not giving them money like MPJA

3122
02:19:36,120 --> 02:19:38,040
that maybe you do, or maybe you don't want talking

3123
02:19:38,040 --> 02:19:39,399
about the Heat.

3124
02:19:39,360 --> 02:19:41,520
Speaker 1: The only other team. I'm trying to focus on dark

3125
02:19:41,520 --> 02:19:45,000
horses here, and the framework would have to be just

3126
02:19:45,959 --> 02:19:48,479
we could talk it out, But what about Memphis?

3127
02:19:50,600 --> 02:19:55,559
Speaker 2: So I guess the question, the threshold question is does

3128
02:19:55,600 --> 02:19:59,000
Butler address enough of what Memphis needs, which is hard

3129
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:01,079
because it's like it's been top five on both ends

3130
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:04,520
all year to justify, Because that's gonna have to be

3131
02:20:05,360 --> 02:20:08,959
pretty pick heavy, right, Like, I I don't know, like

3132
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:11,760
what are the what salaries is Miami? Like, yes, we'll

3133
02:20:11,760 --> 02:20:14,040
take those without a bunch of sweeteners.

3134
02:20:14,319 --> 02:20:18,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're looking at Brandon Clark, you have Marcus

3135
02:20:19,000 --> 02:20:21,159
smart has another year left on his deal, and they're

3136
02:20:21,159 --> 02:20:22,920
probably I mean they have Terry Rozier and Tyler hero

3137
02:20:22,959 --> 02:20:27,200
I don't know why they want Marcus smart Man. Yeah,

3138
02:20:27,319 --> 02:20:29,280
that's it would have to be pretty pick heavy. But

3139
02:20:29,280 --> 02:20:31,760
Memphis owns all their own picks, and also just I

3140
02:20:31,799 --> 02:20:33,799
know they're injured. But if you're able to include a

3141
02:20:33,840 --> 02:20:36,559
Gigi Jackson or even like, that's not nothing, and that

3142
02:20:36,559 --> 02:20:39,000
would be it's almost right up the heat's alley. These

3143
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:42,000
guys who are super cheap that have shown utility and

3144
02:20:42,040 --> 02:20:44,280
maybe you could take a flyer on them and turn

3145
02:20:44,319 --> 02:20:45,440
them into someone even better.

3146
02:20:45,879 --> 02:20:49,239
Speaker 2: I wonder if like I don't know that I would

3147
02:20:49,360 --> 02:20:53,639
even consider this, but but the Grizzlies have the ability

3148
02:20:53,680 --> 02:20:55,840
to put packages together that are pretty different from a

3149
02:20:55,879 --> 02:20:57,959
lot of other teams we've talked about, which is to say,

3150
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:01,159
like you could trade Zach Edie Jalen Wells as like

3151
02:21:01,200 --> 02:21:03,799
the principal outgoing guys, Like you could just make it

3152
02:21:03,840 --> 02:21:06,360
take our young guys that are good. Because if you're

3153
02:21:06,399 --> 02:21:08,920
the heat I think that has a ton of appeal

3154
02:21:10,159 --> 02:21:12,520
because you have so much team control over like good

3155
02:21:12,639 --> 02:21:16,680
young players. And then if you're the Grizzlies, like we've

3156
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:19,159
talked about the rotation getting shorter, I think Wells would

3157
02:21:19,159 --> 02:21:20,719
be in it no matter what in the playoffs, but

3158
02:21:20,799 --> 02:21:24,440
Eadie might not. And so if you're just trying to see,

3159
02:21:24,479 --> 02:21:27,440
like can we can we do it this year? I

3160
02:21:27,440 --> 02:21:29,280
think you can make the case. And then maybe you're

3161
02:21:29,280 --> 02:21:30,959
not giving up a ton of draft equity. You got

3162
02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:33,200
to find the salary somewhere, and Miami's gonna have to

3163
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:35,040
take salary. It doesn't necessarily want. But like what if

3164
02:21:35,079 --> 02:21:36,360
you built it around young guys.

3165
02:21:36,959 --> 02:21:39,319
Speaker 1: So I guess what you're saying is they could have

3166
02:21:39,879 --> 02:21:42,239
two all frameanses, because I don't think you could give up,

3167
02:21:42,319 --> 02:21:44,799
Like you can't give up Zach Edie unless you believe

3168
02:21:44,879 --> 02:21:46,920
Jayhuff is it and he can't be traded. So if

3169
02:21:46,920 --> 02:21:49,600
you think Jayhoff and Jaron Jackson JUNR, but you have

3170
02:21:49,680 --> 02:21:53,399
to almost theoretically move Brandon Clark as well, like you're

3171
02:21:53,440 --> 02:21:57,840
really stripping your So I guess what would Memphis do too,

3172
02:21:58,399 --> 02:22:02,559
of Vince Williams, Jalen Wells, GGI Jackson. I'm assuming Jalen

3173
02:22:02,600 --> 02:22:05,159
Wells plus one of GG and Vince Williams, let's say

3174
02:22:06,000 --> 02:22:09,000
a first round pick, and then Memphis is basically going

3175
02:22:09,000 --> 02:22:12,799
to structure the phillery filler salaries they see fit, which,

3176
02:22:12,840 --> 02:22:14,440
by the way, like they might also just have to

3177
02:22:14,440 --> 02:22:16,280
do like they don't have a big money player.

3178
02:22:16,040 --> 02:22:18,360
Speaker 2: That they have a Dallas problem where it's like you

3179
02:22:18,440 --> 02:22:20,319
have to trade five five players to.

3180
02:22:20,319 --> 02:22:22,920
Speaker 1: Put the difference between them and Dallas. Dallas is deep

3181
02:22:23,239 --> 02:22:27,000
and Memphis is infinitely deep. Apparently right, Well.

3182
02:22:26,879 --> 02:22:28,799
Speaker 2: I wonder if I don't have it open in front

3183
02:22:28,840 --> 02:22:30,600
of me, but would Memphis have the issue of, like

3184
02:22:30,639 --> 02:22:34,079
we physically cannot fill out the rest of these roster

3185
02:22:34,159 --> 02:22:37,040
spots and stay under like they don't have the Dallas

3186
02:22:37,079 --> 02:22:38,280
issue in that sense, do they?

3187
02:22:38,440 --> 02:22:40,959
Speaker 1: So when you're looking at their approximity to the tax

3188
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:43,200
is pretty close. I think they're like two and change

3189
02:22:43,559 --> 02:22:46,520
under other one point eight million dollars under, So you

3190
02:22:46,600 --> 02:22:49,319
have to factor that in. But if you're willing to go,

3191
02:22:49,440 --> 02:22:51,520
you can go into the tax too. I know their

3192
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:53,719
ownership doesn't want to hear it, but yeah, that's like,

3193
02:22:54,079 --> 02:22:57,399
but between Marcus Smart and Brandon Clark and if Lukenard

3194
02:22:57,440 --> 02:23:01,159
waves hiss, no trade clause, you've already gotten like to forty,

3195
02:23:01,600 --> 02:23:03,600
it's like you're pretty close. Like you could figure out

3196
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:05,479
a way to stay underneath the tax and get Butler,

3197
02:23:05,520 --> 02:23:07,040
I would think, and fill out the roster.

3198
02:23:07,600 --> 02:23:10,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's well, we've talked. You've talked me into that

3199
02:23:10,360 --> 02:23:12,319
being like kind of viable. I don't know that Memphis

3200
02:23:12,360 --> 02:23:15,639
would do that. Memphis would have to believe a rental

3201
02:23:16,040 --> 02:23:18,399
shot at a title this year is kind of worth it,

3202
02:23:18,479 --> 02:23:20,840
because like, I don't know if you want to pay again.

3203
02:23:21,120 --> 02:23:22,799
All the thing hanging over all this is like, do

3204
02:23:22,840 --> 02:23:25,079
you want Jimmy Butler's next two years?

3205
02:23:25,920 --> 02:23:27,719
Speaker 1: You have to worry about jown Juds. You just gonna

3206
02:23:27,719 --> 02:23:30,520
get paid. Yeah, he's going to get paid. John Moran

3207
02:23:30,600 --> 02:23:33,200
and Desmond Bayne and then Jimmy. It's short term. But

3208
02:23:33,760 --> 02:23:36,520
now here's the thing I think Miami does that deal

3209
02:23:36,559 --> 02:23:38,040
by the well I don't know they're taking back a

3210
02:23:38,079 --> 02:23:40,000
lot of weird money, but I think they do that deal.

3211
02:23:40,399 --> 02:23:42,319
What if things are just so far gone and like

3212
02:23:42,399 --> 02:23:44,600
you Memphis doesn't have to give up a first round

3213
02:23:44,600 --> 02:23:47,040
pick in that scenario, do you just but you can't

3214
02:23:47,079 --> 02:23:49,719
guarantee Butler's coming back. I think the hardest player to

3215
02:23:49,760 --> 02:23:51,760
part with is Jallen Wells. Do you just like, you know,

3216
02:23:51,840 --> 02:23:53,120
we have to do it.

3217
02:23:53,120 --> 02:23:56,040
Speaker 2: It's funny, like it shouldn't be this way, but Jalen

3218
02:23:56,079 --> 02:23:58,920
Wells is such found money that it's like, well, you know,

3219
02:23:59,239 --> 02:24:01,559
we shouldn't even been able to have get to what

3220
02:24:01,959 --> 02:24:04,079
a stroke of luck we got him anyway, so it's

3221
02:24:04,120 --> 02:24:05,959
like a bonus so we can trade him, you know, like,

3222
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:08,200
which is dumb because he actually is good and valuable

3223
02:24:08,200 --> 02:24:10,920
and you should go forward with guys like that. If

3224
02:24:10,959 --> 02:24:14,440
I just just based on the initial like parameters I

3225
02:24:14,440 --> 02:24:17,200
set out where it's like, if it's Edy and Wells

3226
02:24:17,520 --> 02:24:21,559
and you're getting Butler back, you like that for this year? Right,

3227
02:24:21,680 --> 02:24:27,040
like that you're better this season if you do that. Yes,

3228
02:24:27,559 --> 02:24:30,520
I mean I'm just thinking of like Wells is really

3229
02:24:30,520 --> 02:24:33,959
great for a rookie and is a pretty good starter

3230
02:24:34,079 --> 02:24:36,520
today eating someone I don't think you can use against

3231
02:24:36,559 --> 02:24:38,680
every playoff opponent you're gonna see potentially.

3232
02:24:38,680 --> 02:24:41,920
Speaker 1: It's so I'm looking you're right, But then I'm also thinking, well,

3233
02:24:41,920 --> 02:24:44,120
who is like your centers at that point? Are Santi

3234
02:24:44,159 --> 02:24:46,239
al Dama? Does he as he need to be included

3235
02:24:46,280 --> 02:24:48,520
in this? And then are you making it harder on

3236
02:24:48,639 --> 02:24:51,079
Jaron Jackson Junior to where he's mighty bee not playing

3237
02:24:51,079 --> 02:24:53,920
his optimal defensive role as much? So it's not to me,

3238
02:24:53,959 --> 02:24:56,520
it's less about the eaty of it all, and like

3239
02:24:56,559 --> 02:24:58,959
what does the but I guess you could say you are.

3240
02:24:58,840 --> 02:25:03,079
Speaker 2: Making it about eating Yeah, right, Yeah, I think I

3241
02:25:03,079 --> 02:25:04,799
think the problem is you can't think of the deal

3242
02:25:04,840 --> 02:25:07,120
in those terms, like because if you say, yeah, we're

3243
02:25:07,120 --> 02:25:09,559
better with Jimmy Butler than Jalen Wells and Zachi Edi,

3244
02:25:09,920 --> 02:25:11,760
you know, if we're trying to win four playoff series,

3245
02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:14,399
that just isn't what we're actually talking about. You have

3246
02:25:14,440 --> 02:25:16,319
to think about the next two seasons.

3247
02:25:16,600 --> 02:25:18,280
Speaker 1: The more we talk about it, the more I think

3248
02:25:18,319 --> 02:25:20,120
both teams say no to what we're outlining.

3249
02:25:20,520 --> 02:25:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe because you are still giving Miami money that

3250
02:25:22,799 --> 02:25:25,000
it maybe doesn't want to have at least even though

3251
02:25:25,000 --> 02:25:29,040
it's in like little chopped up chunks, it's still terrible.

3252
02:25:29,440 --> 02:25:33,000
Speaker 1: Like of the deals that we mentioned Marcus Smart and

3253
02:25:33,040 --> 02:25:36,719
that's so short term, it's not gonna be detrimental, right.

3254
02:25:37,120 --> 02:25:39,360
It'd be funny if Memphis couldn't figure out a way

3255
02:25:39,360 --> 02:25:41,559
to trade for Jimmy Butler because Luke Kennard invoked his

3256
02:25:41,559 --> 02:25:43,799
implicit no trade claws. Would be one of the funniest

3257
02:25:43,799 --> 02:25:44,879
story lots.

3258
02:25:45,879 --> 02:25:46,840
Speaker 2: Do you have any other teams?

3259
02:25:47,040 --> 02:25:48,879
Speaker 1: So I was just gonna throw a couple at you

3260
02:25:49,200 --> 02:25:50,600
unless you have do you have something you want to throw?

3261
02:25:50,639 --> 02:25:56,600
Speaker 2: No, no, hit me the Spurs they're a team again.

3262
02:25:56,639 --> 02:25:58,159
I just said, like, find me the guy that doesn't

3263
02:25:58,200 --> 02:26:03,239
fit the Spurs could do it, like for sure. I

3264
02:26:03,319 --> 02:26:07,440
just don't is this is it weird that like I

3265
02:26:07,479 --> 02:26:10,520
don't know if I want Butler around Wembin Yama as

3266
02:26:10,600 --> 02:26:13,639
like a it like this is a guy that's gotten

3267
02:26:13,680 --> 02:26:16,920
himself traded several times. Has been awesome, but it's like,

3268
02:26:16,959 --> 02:26:20,559
I just he's not getting them to contender status and

3269
02:26:20,639 --> 02:26:23,319
then if you pay him for the next couple of

3270
02:26:23,399 --> 02:26:24,760
years after this on an extension.

3271
02:26:25,200 --> 02:26:28,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, the benefit the Spurs is because their most important

3272
02:26:28,360 --> 02:26:30,600
players with the exception of Devin Vessel are all still

3273
02:26:30,600 --> 02:26:33,120
on their rookie scales, is that you might have one

3274
02:26:33,639 --> 02:26:36,959
mega expensive season with Jimmy if that I mean because

3275
02:26:36,959 --> 02:26:40,040
we're only talking about Jeremy Sohan's next deal basically on

3276
02:26:40,120 --> 02:26:43,319
the life of Jimmy Butler's next contract, Right, you don't

3277
02:26:43,319 --> 02:26:46,479
think you just don't think that Jimmy Butler is good

3278
02:26:46,559 --> 02:26:48,959
enough to elevate them, and you think the like de

3279
02:26:49,040 --> 02:26:51,479
Aaron Fox is obviously more preferable, but in terms of

3280
02:26:51,520 --> 02:26:54,600
what you have to give up and get ability, Jimmy

3281
02:26:54,600 --> 02:26:58,000
Butler seems a little because they just have between Barnes,

3282
02:26:58,040 --> 02:27:00,440
Kelton Johnson and Zach Collins, like those are just contracts

3283
02:27:00,440 --> 02:27:03,200
that you don't need to have moving forward.

3284
02:27:03,440 --> 02:27:06,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think part of it is, I you know,

3285
02:27:06,200 --> 02:27:08,079
it's it's like the Warriors argument is like I don't

3286
02:27:08,079 --> 02:27:10,159
know that he gets them to where they want to

3287
02:27:10,159 --> 02:27:12,680
be that would justify it. Although such a different set

3288
02:27:12,719 --> 02:27:15,559
of circumstances with the supporting cast on those two teams.

3289
02:27:16,360 --> 02:27:18,920
I just don't understand. I don't understand why the Spurs

3290
02:27:18,920 --> 02:27:21,840
would be like heavily motivated to go after Jimmy Butler,

3291
02:27:21,920 --> 02:27:24,680
Like what's like, what's the just cause, like we want

3292
02:27:24,680 --> 02:27:26,440
to see what Wemby looks like if we can make

3293
02:27:26,479 --> 02:27:30,760
a like semi deep playoff run this early like that. No,

3294
02:27:30,799 --> 02:27:32,079
I'm just trying to think. I mean, I think that's

3295
02:27:32,120 --> 02:27:34,600
that's semi valuable. But I don't know.

3296
02:27:34,920 --> 02:27:36,879
Speaker 1: If you can get Jimmy Butler for cause there. I

3297
02:27:36,879 --> 02:27:39,360
guess Zach Collins's deals pretty but like Keldon Johnson and

3298
02:27:39,399 --> 02:27:42,000
Harrison Barnes, I don't think are deals that Miami would consider,

3299
02:27:42,399 --> 02:27:44,719
Like those are rotation players. So if you can do

3300
02:27:44,799 --> 02:27:48,879
that and it's costing you two non Hawks, non distant

3301
02:27:48,520 --> 02:27:52,360
like two protected first round picks, is that worth it?

3302
02:27:53,360 --> 02:27:55,639
Saying well, okay, he might be a rental, but if

3303
02:27:55,680 --> 02:27:57,280
you're givna have two first round picks and maybe part

3304
02:27:57,319 --> 02:27:59,799
of the appeals getting off of Zach Collins too, I'd

3305
02:28:00,200 --> 02:28:00,719
roll the dice.

3306
02:28:01,399 --> 02:28:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes it more enticing. And I think like

3307
02:28:03,760 --> 02:28:05,600
if you're the Spurs, you just love to trade your

3308
02:28:05,639 --> 02:28:08,239
own like twenty twenty seven and twenty eight first because

3309
02:28:08,280 --> 02:28:12,360
those are gonna be probably well, I mean, they're not

3310
02:28:12,399 --> 02:28:14,920
gonna walk like if something has gone wrong, if the

3311
02:28:14,959 --> 02:28:17,040
Spurs twenty seven and twenty eight or twenty six and

3312
02:28:17,079 --> 02:28:20,040
twenty seven picks. Our value are actually like in the lottery.

3313
02:28:20,399 --> 02:28:22,360
So you're just you'd it'd be a bet on yourself

3314
02:28:22,479 --> 02:28:25,760
from sant And why wouldn't you if you're the Spurs. Yeah,

3315
02:28:25,799 --> 02:28:27,920
I don't know why. I don't like Butler and San Antonio.

3316
02:28:28,000 --> 02:28:29,719
You make a good case. I just like I don't

3317
02:28:30,239 --> 02:28:33,200
of all the tea. He's not the guy to me,

3318
02:28:33,399 --> 02:28:35,680
I don't. I don't know what he accomplishes for them

3319
02:28:35,719 --> 02:28:37,360
that is worth what it would cost.

3320
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:39,680
Speaker 1: I think it's quick. But if you were able to,

3321
02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:42,319
and it might be complicated, you're just giving up the

3322
02:28:42,440 --> 02:28:45,040
Ruie gab Ins and Jared Vanderbilt moving hood your fino

3323
02:28:45,239 --> 02:28:46,920
let that gets you to the money. Should there be

3324
02:28:46,920 --> 02:28:49,040
any interest from the Lakers, that's gonna cost your last

3325
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:50,639
bullets in the first round chamber.

3326
02:28:50,680 --> 02:28:53,000
Speaker 2: I think they're in a they're like on the opposite

3327
02:28:53,040 --> 02:28:55,879
end where I think like, yeah, probably, I think I

3328
02:28:55,879 --> 02:28:59,520
think you well, just cause every it's it's year to

3329
02:28:59,600 --> 02:29:02,319
year for the Lakers as it is, so you know,

3330
02:29:02,360 --> 02:29:05,799
or at least that's that isn't how they've operated weirdly

3331
02:29:05,879 --> 02:29:10,079
because they have kept the powder sorta dry. I would

3332
02:29:10,120 --> 02:29:13,120
like that a lot better than San Antonio because he does.

3333
02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:17,440
Butler would give you just another really smart player who

3334
02:29:17,600 --> 02:29:21,200
can be can take the load off James as a playmaker,

3335
02:29:21,200 --> 02:29:23,079
do all the things that you Yeah, and he's now

3336
02:29:24,040 --> 02:29:25,920
he's not going to space and we know that like

3337
02:29:25,959 --> 02:29:28,200
space and defense is what you need from Lebron and

3338
02:29:28,520 --> 02:29:31,399
counterparts generally speaking. But then I don't know, do you

3339
02:29:31,600 --> 02:29:33,440
do you still need to like tailor make a roster

3340
02:29:33,520 --> 02:29:35,639
around Lebron? Is he good enough for that anymore?

3341
02:29:35,719 --> 02:29:37,920
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know, Jimmy Butler, is he good

3342
02:29:37,959 --> 02:29:40,879
enough for that? I just that's iffy. I guess I

3343
02:29:40,879 --> 02:29:42,559
don't even know if that's if those two first round

3344
02:29:42,600 --> 02:29:44,360
picks that they could give up, Like, is that enough

3345
02:29:44,399 --> 02:29:46,760
for Miami? Just say yeah, they include whatever salary you want.

3346
02:29:46,920 --> 02:29:48,079
I guess it should be, right.

3347
02:29:48,000 --> 02:29:51,040
Speaker 2: Might be? I mean I would think about it. It'd

3348
02:29:51,079 --> 02:29:52,799
be a lot nicer if they had Dilo still, so

3349
02:29:52,799 --> 02:29:55,159
you could just give more expiring salary to Miami.

3350
02:29:55,680 --> 02:29:57,239
Speaker 1: I think this is a quick one. But do you

3351
02:29:57,280 --> 02:30:00,159
see the Pacers could do it? What do you think

3352
02:30:00,200 --> 02:30:01,239
about the Pacers?

3353
02:30:01,440 --> 02:30:03,959
Speaker 2: I had not thought about the Pacers at all, So

3354
02:30:04,040 --> 02:30:06,680
you're what are you? What are what's Indy giving up here.

3355
02:30:06,719 --> 02:30:08,920
Speaker 1: I think the core tenants here are. You figure out

3356
02:30:08,920 --> 02:30:10,920
a way to do it and you are left with

3357
02:30:11,000 --> 02:30:14,680
Jimmy Butler, Tyres Halburt, and Pascal Siakham as the core,

3358
02:30:14,719 --> 02:30:17,280
and then it's one of Turner or nem Hard, maybe

3359
02:30:17,280 --> 02:30:19,559
both is still on the roster because you have the

3360
02:30:19,600 --> 02:30:21,600
top and salary, you have Math, and you have Walker,

3361
02:30:21,719 --> 02:30:24,600
you have Nie Smith, so you might be able to

3362
02:30:24,639 --> 02:30:26,479
get there without but it might cost you Turner. But

3363
02:30:26,520 --> 02:30:29,120
it's the crux of it is I think you're left

3364
02:30:29,120 --> 02:30:32,000
with Jimmy Butler, nem Hard, Halliburton and Siakham is the

3365
02:30:32,639 --> 02:30:34,799
that's sort of the foundation of your team.

3366
02:30:36,719 --> 02:30:39,600
Speaker 2: Man. So if you lose Turner, you've got quite a

3367
02:30:39,799 --> 02:30:41,760
quite a hole there in the middle, unless you want

3368
02:30:41,760 --> 02:30:44,239
to play and play center the whole time, which I

3369
02:30:44,239 --> 02:30:49,239
don't think is a realistic strategy from Miami side of it,

3370
02:30:49,280 --> 02:30:53,120
I guess from Indies side, I don't think. I don't

3371
02:30:53,120 --> 02:30:56,920
think that's the move. Just like, man, you're so expensive,

3372
02:30:57,079 --> 02:31:00,479
You've got so much money going. If you keep Butler, Butler,

3373
02:31:00,520 --> 02:31:04,079
Siakam and Haliburton that I just think you're just that's

3374
02:31:04,079 --> 02:31:06,479
not a team I feel comfortable having to operate with

3375
02:31:06,520 --> 02:31:08,879
like a lot of minimums going forward like that. I

3376
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:09,680
don't love that.

3377
02:31:10,040 --> 02:31:12,440
Speaker 1: You're right, the only other animal mention I would maybe

3378
02:31:12,440 --> 02:31:15,319
this would constitute the panic trade that was referenced. Do

3379
02:31:15,440 --> 02:31:18,239
the Kings look at themselves and say, if the Rosen

3380
02:31:18,280 --> 02:31:20,079
can be a part of this deal, and you have

3381
02:31:20,120 --> 02:31:21,840
the Kevin Herder money and you have Trey Lyles and

3382
02:31:21,840 --> 02:31:24,520
we're just talking about picks, maybe Devin Carter has to

3383
02:31:24,559 --> 02:31:29,079
be involved, but you get Fox the bonus Butler, Keyan Murray,

3384
02:31:29,360 --> 02:31:32,559
Kean Ellis even moving forward? Is that does that do

3385
02:31:32,600 --> 02:31:33,200
anything for you?

3386
02:31:33,639 --> 02:31:36,639
Speaker 2: That would be the Panic trade for sure, Although like

3387
02:31:36,840 --> 02:31:39,799
I think, if you're able to keep Keegan Murray that's

3388
02:31:39,879 --> 02:31:44,959
kind of a win. What I'm not as why is Miami?

3389
02:31:45,200 --> 02:31:47,840
What's so again? That's your right? Like every time we

3390
02:31:47,879 --> 02:31:49,959
go to Miami side, it's like, well, why would I

3391
02:31:49,959 --> 02:31:51,040
don't think they would do that?

3392
02:31:51,159 --> 02:31:53,239
Speaker 1: Kevin Hurt only has a year left and like we'll

3393
02:31:53,280 --> 02:31:55,360
get up threes and look, the Heat don't have their

3394
02:31:55,360 --> 02:31:57,399
first round pick this year, They're not gonna have it

3395
02:31:57,399 --> 02:32:00,000
in twenty twenty seven. That kind of spans the life

3396
02:32:00,200 --> 02:32:02,799
of DeRozan's contract and he is still a not I

3397
02:32:02,799 --> 02:32:05,680
guess his aging curve is bad, but he's still someone

3398
02:32:05,719 --> 02:32:07,280
I would think this season it's all right, he'll help

3399
02:32:07,360 --> 02:32:10,799
us remain competitive, and then you reevaluate. I mean, if

3400
02:32:10,799 --> 02:32:13,120
you're getting King's first round picks.

3401
02:32:13,040 --> 02:32:19,440
Speaker 2: Post that, you know, good argument that is that is enticing. Man.

3402
02:32:19,520 --> 02:32:21,280
It's good to be back. It's good to be back.

3403
02:32:21,280 --> 02:32:23,680
Where everything we say about the Kings is just like.

3404
02:32:23,600 --> 02:32:27,200
Speaker 1: A knock did anything that we mapped out. I think

3405
02:32:27,239 --> 02:32:31,440
Atlanta's one, and maybe Denver's, but Denver's just feels so unlikely.

3406
02:32:31,959 --> 02:32:34,879
So Atlanta's offer would be enough away from the core

3407
02:32:34,959 --> 02:32:37,360
teams for us to we're running full circle as we

3408
02:32:37,399 --> 02:32:39,040
close out here where you're talking about that he just

3409
02:32:39,120 --> 02:32:41,000
might want to dare him to get the money off

3410
02:32:41,040 --> 02:32:44,840
the books. I think the Atlanta scenario feels most palatable

3411
02:32:44,920 --> 02:32:47,000
to me. And even if you included Denvers, I just

3412
02:32:47,120 --> 02:32:49,840
don't know if you're not the Nuggets or you're not

3413
02:32:49,920 --> 02:32:52,520
a contender, I don't know how much that team would

3414
02:32:52,559 --> 02:32:55,600
then value Michael Porter Junior's deal. And so Atlanta's to

3415
02:32:55,680 --> 02:32:59,440
me seems like the if you're Miami, excuse me, it

3416
02:32:59,440 --> 02:33:02,680
seems like the the best one that we laid out.

3417
02:33:02,920 --> 02:33:05,879
Speaker 2: I you could just check check me on my bias.

3418
02:33:06,280 --> 02:33:08,879
So if we open the field all the way back up,

3419
02:33:09,920 --> 02:33:13,200
do you think Kaminga and Wiggins and expiring salary and

3420
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:16,959
a first is a better offer from Miami's perspective.

3421
02:33:16,840 --> 02:33:20,879
Speaker 1: So it'd be it's basically Kaminga Wiggins A first versus

3422
02:33:22,000 --> 02:33:25,159
I'm gonna say Bogdanovich and two first and then Klinkopela

3423
02:33:25,239 --> 02:33:27,959
is expiring money. Yeah, and both of those first are

3424
02:33:27,959 --> 02:33:31,959
in twenty twenty five, though, well, the Kings might not be. Ooh,

3425
02:33:32,719 --> 02:33:38,079
I just I guess the Warriors deal is better. It's

3426
02:33:38,280 --> 02:33:40,239
what pick is that though, So like if it's twenty

3427
02:33:40,399 --> 02:33:42,280
twenty six, I think it's definitely better.

3428
02:33:42,879 --> 02:33:46,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then I think the selling points are Wiggins

3429
02:33:46,239 --> 02:33:50,399
is someone you could trade for potentially like significant positive value,

3430
02:33:50,639 --> 02:33:54,120
you know, yeah, and then Kaminga is whatever you think

3431
02:33:54,159 --> 02:33:56,879
Kminga is, Like, that's that's good. It's the year of

3432
02:33:56,920 --> 02:33:59,680
the pick and what you think Kaminga is are the

3433
02:33:59,719 --> 02:34:01,479
two like like pinch points here.

3434
02:34:01,600 --> 02:34:03,799
Speaker 1: The thing I don't like, though, is because Cominga is

3435
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:07,040
considered like all the other parts that we've kind of

3436
02:34:07,079 --> 02:34:10,040
mentioned have been either expendable or it's just DeAndre Hunter Bogdanovic.

3437
02:34:10,120 --> 02:34:12,399
Those are plug and play. I don't love Kminga and

3438
02:34:12,399 --> 02:34:15,000
bam Autebaio together on the front line. And then are

3439
02:34:15,000 --> 02:34:17,399
you viewing Minga as a wing? Yeah, in which case

3440
02:34:17,440 --> 02:34:19,719
I don't think he's a wing. I think it's a

3441
02:34:19,719 --> 02:34:23,000
discussion to be had. But Atlanta Golden State, I think

3442
02:34:23,120 --> 02:34:25,559
among if you could tell. That's assuming Atlanta would even

3443
02:34:25,600 --> 02:34:27,959
get involved, by the way, because the olden Station is

3444
02:34:28,000 --> 02:34:29,120
more likely to be involved.

3445
02:34:29,239 --> 02:34:31,200
Speaker 2: That's the thing is. The more I think about it,

3446
02:34:31,239 --> 02:34:33,280
the more it's fairly clear to me that the Warriors

3447
02:34:33,319 --> 02:34:35,879
can have the best offer if they want to. And

3448
02:34:36,159 --> 02:34:39,360
I don't want Jimmy Butler like that's it's just they

3449
02:34:39,399 --> 02:34:39,639
could do.

3450
02:34:40,079 --> 02:34:42,360
Speaker 1: If you're the Warriors, would you do that trade? Probably

3451
02:34:42,840 --> 02:34:44,280
the first Wiggans and then it's salary.

3452
02:34:44,479 --> 02:34:47,079
Speaker 2: Probably not. I don't think I would not for Butler.

3453
02:34:47,799 --> 02:34:51,399
Speaker 1: I think it's funny you're tomorrow You're Kaminga pilled and

3454
02:34:51,440 --> 02:34:52,719
I'm Andrew Wiggins pilled.

3455
02:34:53,280 --> 02:34:56,319
Speaker 2: Well, I'm cominga pill again. I'm occasionally I wouldn't say

3456
02:34:56,360 --> 02:34:59,799
at the moment I'm cominga pilled. I'm more Warriors aren't

3457
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:02,000
where they need to be with Jimmy Butler pilled and

3458
02:35:02,040 --> 02:35:04,840
it's not worth it to give up the outside chance

3459
02:35:04,840 --> 02:35:08,159
that Kaminga could be good. And Wiggins is very very

3460
02:35:08,200 --> 02:35:10,760
favorable deal like and picks.

3461
02:35:10,920 --> 02:35:11,239
Speaker 1: I don't.

3462
02:35:11,360 --> 02:35:13,600
Speaker 2: I don't like the idea of this needs to work

3463
02:35:13,680 --> 02:35:16,159
with Butler or it's gonna get ugly in a in

3464
02:35:16,200 --> 02:35:18,399
a hurry, like I don't like. I'm not uncomfortable with that.

3465
02:35:19,280 --> 02:35:21,600
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you, And that's just if I

3466
02:35:21,639 --> 02:35:23,399
was rooting for Chaos. I hope it's like a Denver

3467
02:35:23,520 --> 02:35:25,360
or in Atlanta, just like, oh yeah, that one. I

3468
02:35:25,479 --> 02:35:27,600
kind of love the fit in Atlanta, though, if you're

3469
02:35:27,639 --> 02:35:30,840
having if you're keeping Hunter with Dyson Daniels and Zachary

3470
02:35:30,799 --> 02:35:33,440
Reich and Jael Johnson, that's that's a fuck ton of

3471
02:35:33,520 --> 02:35:34,239
versatility on.

3472
02:35:34,159 --> 02:35:35,840
Speaker 2: The pre I mean, you still a kong lose your

3473
02:35:35,840 --> 02:35:38,399
center now, So that's even he's more versatilely.

3474
02:35:38,440 --> 02:35:41,360
Speaker 1: Pretty fucking small after that. But like clear Capella, I

3475
02:35:41,479 --> 02:35:43,719
vacillate on him sometimes say, all right, like people are

3476
02:35:43,760 --> 02:35:45,559
just underrating him and that's why does he look like

3477
02:35:45,600 --> 02:35:49,600
he's forty on something? Uh, grant, you asked us what

3478
02:35:49,639 --> 02:35:51,920
was gonna happen to the forty minutes that you I

3479
02:35:51,920 --> 02:35:52,840
didn't spend.

3480
02:35:52,559 --> 02:35:54,159
Speaker 2: Talking off air there was.

3481
02:35:54,600 --> 02:35:56,920
Speaker 1: It was spent on Jimmy Butler. Do you have anything

3482
02:35:56,959 --> 02:35:57,719
else or do want?

3483
02:35:57,840 --> 02:36:00,799
Speaker 2: No? I think we should stop this immediately. I mean,

3484
02:36:01,719 --> 02:36:04,559
I don't. I regret nothing. Those forty minutes were a

3485
02:36:04,559 --> 02:36:05,360
good part of my day.

3486
02:36:05,520 --> 02:36:05,760
Speaker 1: Match.

3487
02:36:06,600 --> 02:36:09,559
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Come up with more

3488
02:36:09,639 --> 02:36:11,680
Jimmy Butler teams that we didn't, even though we did

3489
02:36:11,760 --> 02:36:13,959
roughly half the league so far, I'm sure there are

3490
02:36:13,959 --> 02:36:16,079
more teams willing to take on fifty million dollars for

3491
02:36:16,120 --> 02:36:19,440
a thirty five year old. Remember, if you haven't Rate

3492
02:36:19,479 --> 02:36:22,000
Review subscribed wherever you're listening to your podcast, if you're

3493
02:36:22,000 --> 02:36:23,959
watching this on YouTube, make sure you give us thumbs up,

3494
02:36:24,040 --> 02:36:28,120
leaves some comments, make sure you're subscribed there. Tell your friends.

3495
02:36:28,120 --> 02:36:30,559
Word of mouth really helps tell your enemies, and I

3496
02:36:30,559 --> 02:36:33,680
think that's going to cover it. Trade deadline will over

3497
02:36:33,680 --> 02:36:37,760
a month away, so exciting times. Shouts franklinly Keen an apologies,

3498
02:36:37,760 --> 02:36:38,280
Jared Allen