Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Sikos, I am Dan Valley coming
at you with the one, the only, my certified, fantabulous
co host, mister Grant Hughes. Not only is it the
first podcast of the regular season, it's also the first
live Hardwood Knocks of the regular season. You know what
that means? Like comment, subscribe on YouTube, hype points those
are the thing now, hype us up? But again, comments, likes,
recommend us subscribe, share the episodes, all that good stuff.
We appreciate it. We are here to do before we
even ask how Grant is doing. Our first ever over
Reactions draft, where Grant and I we've seen obviously, we
know enough to understand how the season is going to unfold.
At this point, it's been the season's now three whole
days old, and I feel confident in saying I don't
need to watch another game. So we have parsed the discourse.
We have come up with fifteen over reactions that we
think would be the biggest or most hurting and overreactions.
They're not necessarily things, we believe, but we think that
they are talking points worth discussing. We will not get
to all of them. We will only be doing ten
or twelve, hence the draft element. So we will have
a card up on screen where we will pick from,
and then we will dig into each topic. We will
alternate selections. No one has ever turned anything like this
where we're takesmithing into a draft. So I'm really excited
to be just in vogue and ahead of the curve.
And with that, I will throw it to you, sir,
How the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great, Happy to be here on our first
podcast of the season. I thought when you said and
you know what that means, referring to the live aspect,
I thought you were gonna say mistakes, screw ups. That's incredible,
regrettable comments. It's all on the table. No, this is great.
This It is overreaction season, just like by definition, so
this is the perfect way to address what as we're recording.
This has been basically two and a half nights of
games and really only one full slate. But god damn,
like this has been unbelievable. Some of these games already right, like,
we're getting double overtimes left and right, we're getting well,
I'm not gonna spoil what else we're getting, because we're
gonna talk about it, But I get we're getting overreaction
Dan to say that the first three days of this
season as we sit here today, have been pretty badass,
and I've enjoyed it very very much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've had a lot of fun. I do wonder
if we might get into this. We might not. Who
knows is a draft. I do wonder if Oklahoma City
is trying to set the record for just the number
of games that go outside not just outside regulation, but
into double overtime.
Speaker 2: Most minutes played in a season. They got to be
the leaders through two games. That's guaranteed. That's a lock.
Speaker 1: So do you have any thoughts about how you're gonna
approach this or game it before we actually get started
with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's how I've been thinking about this. I didn't
sleep last night because I was really concerned with how
I'm gonna win the draft. I'm gonna pick the things
that I want to talk about the most as soon
as I can in the draft. I hope. I know
that's nowhere near your strategy, though, so I feel pretty
safe confiding.
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and pick the things that you
want to talk about the least so that I can
just vamp for like thirty minutes on end.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 1: I think the one final thing before we get started,
I'm going to give you the first pick. One because
I feel like I'm a very generous and super kind person.
But two, also, I'm doing so many things to set
this up at the moment that I think is just
better off if you started right.
Speaker 2: We want to Yeah, well, you know what, I'll as
a courtesy to you, I'll also let you opine on
the thing I pick first, which there was only ever
one first pick here to discuss, and that is that
Victor wembin Yama is only sixty four games played away
from winning MVP, because he's already got one and that
one was uh, I just I think so he scored
forty points. He didn't shoot a bunch of threes, He
got to the line a lot, had some great you know,
had a handful blocks. I think it was three double
digit re might have got fifteen boards. And as I'm
hearing the numbers that I'm saying, what I want to
convey to you is that they kind of make it
seem like that's all he did, and those numbers are nuts.
They don't come close to capturing what the experience of
watching that season opener for San Antonio really was because
Wemby did eight ten things that are unthinkable, just like
physical feats that you don't we've never seen, Like let
me ask you, what do you think or what got
you off the couch? What like made you giggle? Like
what was the thing that he did that was the
most like the thing you'll take away from that game
as like you're telling someone about what Wemby did against
Dallas in the opener, Is there a single play that
stands out? Because I have trouble narrowing it down for
like a half dozen so it's definitely.
Speaker 1: Tough to narrow it down, but it has to be.
He swallows Derek Lively shot at one end, comes up
the floor, and then just hits this crossover step back
three over not even over Derek Lively because he had
kind of shook him by that point. He was still
inside the arc and closing out from there, while Wemby
was like already getting off his release. And that was
just it was a it was a moment in a
long line of many moments where you just felt like
it's over, this is just what are we supposed to do?
And it was also just to add on to what
you were saying, you and I we put Wemby in
our preseason MVP discussion. We both I don't remember where
we had him exactly, but we both had him in
the top the top five of our ballot. It made
me start thinking that we overthought the Spurs to where
we were wondering, oh, is this really a team that
could be above five hundred A bunch and I still think.
You look at a team like Denver, you look at
a team like Okay, see, you look at a team
like Houston. Maybe ifn Minnesota ken they with them, but
this idea that maybe they won't be a top six
team in the West if Wemby is going to play
like that. They played like that Grant and have yet
to incorporate the Aaron Fox who's only going to juice.
The shooting might be a question, but the speed at
which they're playing Almost thirty percent of their points came
in transition one game. But this is the thing. It's
is Wemby going to win MVP? Is he the best
player in the league? And just how good are the
Spurs going to be because of it?
Speaker 2: Here's what I would add. Uh One, Yes, we did like,
there's a very simple way to evaluate the Spurs, and
that is to say, if Wemby is this, then they
are winning fifty five games period as a floor the
plays that so his sound nuts that game was. I
forgot about that play, and as you mentioned, the Derek
Lively like just an inhalation block that led to the
transition score. I definitely did like gasp when he did that.
So the the other couple that stand out to me,
the driving reverse baseline dunk where his feet are clearly
on the floor as he is touching the rim finishing
that play was like it was like Vince Carter against
the Pacers twenty five years ago, but the opposite direction
and Wemby was standing as he reversed dunk. Don't see
that all the time. There was another play where he
gave two hard dribbles and moved Anthony Davis backwards, just
like a totally different brand of dominance where he's just
gonna be physical, which was hinted at a little bit
in the preseason. But I was down on some of
his preseason offense because I thought he was just taking
it to trouble and didn't know what to do. He
just bullied Anthony Davis for a baby hook, like that's
if that's on the table. What Like there's a million
reactions of like what do you do with this guy?
Which answer I don't know because here's the other thing.
What team in theory is better equipped to give Webbin
Yama problems than Dallas, whose whole deal is Anthony Davis
as a four. We have a legitimate five and Derek
Glavely who can move his feet, Cooper flags the lurking
around like if anyone is gonna slow him down. It's
a team like that. Now, the Houston games will be
fascinating too, because you can't you can't bully Steven Adams
for example, on Aman Thompson's gonna make things difficult, but
like in terms of the opponent, even like that shouldn't
have happened. So I don't know. It's it's it's impossible
to be like too hyperbolic in my opinion. Oh before
I forget, I know I'm rambling, but like this is
what happens when women Yamba does stuff like this. If
if he's gonna get the Yannis, like that's three steps, bro,
but it's never a travel if he's gonna get that
kind of benefit of the doubt, which he did at
least twice against Dallas Late Gather whatever you wanna call it,
the late Gather, you will not. He can't be guarded
because his steps are even longer than Yanni's and he's
a better ball handler. It's just like, if he's gonna
get that leeway on top of all these other just
genetic advantages that he has, it it's it's a wrap.
He's gonna win MVP. He's sixty four more games all
end where I started. If he does anything like this
and meets the games requirement, you can't give MVP to
anybody else. Because the offense was like the most shocking part.
We haven't even talked about his defense other than one block,
and he was like, I don't know, maybe we need
to move on, but on all this other stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, I want to ask you if this is if
this is victim Wemenyama's default, then the stat line won't
stay the same the entire time, even looking at the
things he's able to do offensively. I mean, one, are
we sure he's not seven to eight?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: This is like it right, okay, because now he's listed it.
He went from what seven three to seven to five,
and they've like listed him at seven four. Now into
the he looks at least seven and a half feet
and that might even like just w maybe it's because
he makes everyone look so peenny. But the handle grant
you're talking about him moving Anthony Davis, not only is
he stronger, I don't think the handle's ever going to
be it's well, he's never gonna have a Kyrie or
a steph handle, but he might as well, like relative
to his size, like what he's doing right now, like
it just looks tighter, more fluid. How I have two questions.
You did say that isn't Dallas supposed to be the
team that be able to frustrate him? And I would
say maybe, but they're not. Do you look at their
individual defenders and think, oh, like this is someone who
should really frustrate wemen Yama or is it is there?
Like I'm gonna ask you, what is the team that
you think is most suitor has the player or player
is most suited to make Wemby look, I'll say mortal. Well,
we're we're semi mortal.
Speaker 2: Just theoretically, like Anthony Davis is not that far. He's
not this guy anymore, but we're not that far removed
from when he was the guy you'd say as an
anchor to a playoff defense. He's my number one pick
because he could shut the rim off and he could
move in space, and he's bigger and he's stronger, I
thought than wemen Yama still probably is. Derek Lively is
one of the most mobile bigs in the league can
defend the rim. Dallas is huge just collectively, so like,
I don't know overall, that's to answer your question, Like
Dallas is kind of on a very short list of teams.
I would have thought, well, it's gonna be harder tonight
for Wemby than against most teams, at least offensively. Defensively,
I think it plays very much into his hands because
like just nobody's a bigger and quicker than him on
that team. So yeah, I mentioned Houston. I'm trying to
think who else would even.
Speaker 1: Do you think? I know they're small, but does ok
See have the guys.
Speaker 2: Maybe as like a as a good luck dribbling against
us kind of kind of proposition, and like Chet definitely
is up for it. Like I think that's a budding
rivalry that I'm very excited to see the next time
they meet. But yeah, I just Dallas was very high
on my list of this is this is going to
be a team that will make things difficult for him.
I do want to talk about the defensive side, just
silly blocks aside. I think one of the things that
we don't we don't appreciate enough about Wimby's defense, which
is an insane thing to say because everybody's over them
about it. But like, one of the things every offense
wants now are paint touches because of what paint touches create, kickouts,
put the get start the blender. Everybody says, get the
rotations going, make a mistake happen, find an open shooter,
drive dish drive, like, just start that whole process. If
when when ban Yama devalues paint touches, because when he's around,
you saw this against Dallas over and over again. Guys
would see him, they'd get into the paint, they'd kick
it to a shooter and that shooter would be guarded
because none of the spurs. Other defenders are moving off
their guys because they don't have to. Because when Binyama
has the paint covered, he's just deterring guys from getting
in there and doing anything because they're afraid to put
the ball up, and they're all He's also making it
so everybody else can just stay home because why would
you help, Why would you dig down on a driver
or a post up threat when wehen Banyama's around, you
just don't have to. So, like, the thing every offense
wants to accomplish is now worth almost nothing because he's there. Like,
whether he blocks the shot or not, it's just so
like what's plan B, whatever it is, it's not gonna
give you as high of an expected value as pain
touches do against literally any other defender. So he's just
like short circuited the most valuable thing offenses want to
do by existing by just standing there. So I mean like,
and that's not going to show up in stats other
than maybe like we'll see some incredible dip in opponent
at rimfield goal attempt rate when he's in the game.
But like, the blocks aren't gonna cover it. They they
won't show the impact because it's a cliche, but it
is very much the shots he prevents from even being taken.
And it's just at a level with him that I don't.
I can't remember ever seeing.
Speaker 1: And I think what complicates all that to make it?
Macro about the Spurs Steph Castle as a monster, and
then already the Cornette Wemby minutes seem like they might
be insane, and so you're gonna be a like imagine
the idea of Wemby just being able to roam even
more than he can alright, because Luke Cornette is on
the floor, that is that's horrifying if you're an opposing offense.
So I will throw this. We spend too much time
on Wemby. But I have to ask this question because
I think it assigns a value to this quote unquote overreaction.
Is Victor wembin Yama going to be the best player
in the NBA by the end of the season. Are
you ready to put him over? There's Jokic, there's Sga.
They're not at this moment, I'm saying by the end
of the season. But there's Luca, there's Giannis. You could
throw maybe another name or two in there.
Speaker 2: We've seen one game. He has been better in that
one game than anybody else has been this year. And
SGA has a fifty five point game on the season.
So I think there's a case to be made that
this is an overreaction. This is what we're here to do.
He's the best player in the league right now, today,
like through through. If this is what he is and
we're overreacting, he's the best player in the league. It's
everybody else's is playing for second at the moment, because
you can't tell me there's a single other performance to
day this season that has touched what he did against Dallas.
It's not close.
Speaker 1: I agree, based off what we've seen so far. I
think in the grand scheme, like I'll hedge, I'll take
your job in Hedge here great. I view him as
just if anyone is going to enter the SGA Yokic
conversation over this larger portion of the schedule, it is him,
And I don't know that there's anyone else who has
the power to do it, not at this moment, not Giannis,
not Luca, who might maybe some people want to throw
Anthony Edwards in there. I don't think that would That's
just not going to cut it. He is absolutely insane.
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Speaker 1: Also insane, though Grant is it is now my turn
to pick who am I going to go with?
Speaker 2: Here?
Speaker 1: What is left? Okay, I'm going to go with Let's
talk a little bit about Alpa and Shangoon. I'm going
to say the overreaction would be Alprin Shangoun is going
to be high on the MVP ballot, or he is
just the best play This is Houston is his team now.
So you watch him against when they're going up against
OKAC in the first game of the season, he has
thirty nine points, seven assists, eleven boards. I think a
few of the things that stand out the most to
me is one very clearly their offense was at its
best when it was running through him. Fred van Fleet injured,
Reed Shepherd. Maybe we might need to get him at
some point. Just not ready for that moment. Kevin Durant,
that's not his like, that's just not his game, not
setting up for everybody else, or even at this point
when you look at the way that he's handling pressure,
like that's not really his strong suit, Like Alpern Channglin
is gonna be more physical uses his shoulders and also
to Okase's credit, he wasn't super efficient from beyond the arc,
and he was taking a lot of tough shots. He
has those just like they're like a combination of Yokich
Sibonis where they're like ugly, but there's also finesse and
there's some force there. He might have a this is
the bigger takeaway, he might just have a perimeter game.
At this point, we could focus on the three point shooting,
which would be a big deal. He finishes five of eight,
he was ten of eleven at the foul line, and
he was no great shakes as a free throw shooter
to date. If this is someone who now reliably stretches
the floor and Will was I talking to you about
this where we were laughing at you can't call doma
Sibonis a floor space or because of the volume, it
was probably you No, no, your Sabonis takes if you're
gonna take like four threes a game, but what is
the what is the line of demarcation for you when
you're looking at does this guy's reliable? And I think
from the big man spot specifically, because if you saw
a wing taking four to three pointers per game, it's
all right whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I the cop out answer is, there's not
a hard number. It's just how the defense reacts to
that player. And I think based on the opener, you
sort of as a defender can't can't dare him to
shoot threes anymore because I think in addition to him
making enough, it felt to me like there was a one.
I think the aesthetics of his form looked better, it
looked smoother, and I think that translated to his free
throws too, But the willingness to shoot him the clear
like lack of hesitation, the understanding, like I think, like
Shang Gun's a very smart offensive player, and it wouldn't
have taken a very smart offensive player to diagnose what
this Rockets offense is gonna need, having lost its three
highest volume three point shooters from last year, and so
I think he entered the first game of the season
just fully understanding like somebody's got to shoot these, and
it looked like he worked on it over the summer
just because again the form looked better. So I think
he he you know, if he goes over six in
the next game, which we've only seen again one game
we're overreacting. Maybe the calculus changes, but I think you
probably have to guard him pretty differently than you used to,
where maybe you'd sag off, maybe maybe he would pass
up those open shots. That's maybe the biggest thing is
he wasn't passing up touches, you know, where he might
have looked for a pass instead, like if he got
it in he had space, it was going up and
that was the right decision and the results were good.
So I don't see a reason for him to back
off that. And so relatedly, I think defenders have to
treat him three level score is not quite right because
those those weird little push shots and hooks are still
kind of like short mid rangers, Like he's not shooting
sixteen seventeen footers, which, like I guess why would you
because he can get closer with his physicality, But you
know what I mean, he's he's kind of become or
it looks like he's become someone you have to guard
everywhere as a scoring threat, which was just really not
the sort of the write up on him leading into
this season. So he looked great to me. The other
thing is like this is a different conversation or maybe
less meaningful in terms of MVP or whatever if he
hadn't used last year to prove that he can be
in the middle on a great defense, because that was
another question is like, well can he defend the rim?
Is he mobile enough? You know, the personnel around him
has a lot to do with it. But the results
were the results, and he was a key figure at
a critical position on a defense that was awesome last year.
So adding this offensive dimension is that's how you get
into the MVP discussion.
Speaker 1: What do you think about this as a second pick
in this thing? Like how big of a how much
validity do you assign to I think saying that it
needs to be alphern Shang Gun's team is really just
not spicy at this point.
Speaker 2: He is, well, there's because the fair amount of Am
and Thompson hype, right, like because he had did a
few things in the in their game against the thunder
there which like some of his drives like that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1: And the thing too is I saw I'm not against
this take, by the way, is I still think that
he can be the fulcrum of their offense. I'm an
above average offense. What do you think that would look
like in the playoffs, I think if Kevin Durant is
zooming around you, and maybe the April version of Reed
Shepherd who knows that he could be I saw a
lot of the Rockets need another ball handler. They have
to get another ball handler. I actually don't disagree. I
think when you get to the playoffs, you want someone
unless read Shepherd's going to pop, who's going to be
more reliable and those spots can handle pressure. But I
would just like to point out it was Oklahoma City.
I know they were missing Jane, but that I know
that's the team you have to beat. So I understand
why reviewing it through that lens, But the first game
of the season, for what some of the things that
aman Thompson was able to do, and even just read
Shepherd moving a little bit on the ball, I just wasn't.
First of all, they can't unless you want them to
trade aman Thomson or Alpern Jangun. They can't really trade
anybody at the moment. So let's come and have this
discussion in mid December January, and I want to My
point is I saw enough to know that I want
to see more as they are currently constructed, because I
don't know that. I think the conversation then becomes, well,
what level of ball handler do you need to get
because there's a difference between we need someone in our
closing lineup to run the offense and we need just
someone who can eat up fifteen to twenty minutes per game,
hopefully into the playoffs, but doesn't need to be a
part of our closing unit.
Speaker 2: Do you think you know how? I guess I've said this,
but I feel like you've co signed it to some extent.
The take of the absolute apex version of the Caves
has like this version of Donovan Mitchell, but he's the
second best player behind Evan Mobley, which might be true already,
but like in a playoff setting, I still think Mitchell
is kind of the guy that makes it work. Yeah,
do you what do you think about applying that to
Thompson and the Rockets, where the argument is the apex
version of this Rockets team, the one that could win
a title, has a version of Thompson that is even
better than the current shangoon. Like that is on you know,
you know what I mean? Like for them to get
really where they want to go, Thompson has to ascend
to that level. And surpass Shangoon, even this iteration of Shangoon,
which we agree is like, holy shit, this guy's really
good on both ends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do think that needs to happen in large
part when you're talking about this Zach version of the Rockets,
he is the person that is going to be bringing
the ball off the court, like off those dead balls
off makes yeah, Shane gun sometimes and off of rebounds
for sure. But if you're looking at who's gonna have
like the most touches in that situation, those most full
floor touches, I would assume it's going to be him,
And if it's Kevin Duran, I don't think you're doing
a service to Kevin Durant at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is interesting. We've reached the point where Kevin
Durant is He's look, he's he's still just like a
five alarm fire offensively, but he's not like an additive
player in the way that maybe he used to be,
or in maybe the way that he's thought of where
he's making other guys better just by being out there.
It's kind of it kind of feels like if he
were on the Wizards or the Thunder, he would kind
of do the same stuff and it would just you
would know what you were getting. So there's value in that.
But I don't think anybody believes like the Rockets live
and die with Kevin Durant's there's like at least two
players you get to before that feels true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is it's not an insult when you look
at the stage of his career, still being an All
NBA caliber player, looking at what he can do on
the the offensive end. Now, to wrap this up, I'm
going to say the overreaction should be al prinshang Gun
will be I'll say, finish in the top seven of
MVP voting this year too hot, not to look they
might need him to like they it feels like they
need someone to enter that discussion if they want to
be a contender, barring some sort of a big, big trade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it's not Thompson, it has to be him
for them to get where they want to go. All right,
I will surprise precisely no one, least of all you
with my next pick, and that dan is the over
reaction that claims Jimmy Butler is the most complimentary teammate
Steph Curry has ever had. The reason that's an overreaction
is that he's played with basically Pete Kevin Durant before,
won some titles with him, and also Draymond Green's whole
deal is that he is the most complimentary player to
Steph and maybe like the most complimentary non superstar to
a superstar we've ever had, just because of he sort
of couldn't be more different than Curry in terms of
like what he provides, the gaps he feels, the way
he tailors his entire game to sort of maximizing stuff.
Here's the here's the case, and we've seen this is
this is why this isn't an overreaction. We've seen two
games of the Warriors so far, not just one, so
we have twice as much data. The way that Butler
is a counterpoint to the total like batshit chaos that
even the old war like the old meaning, like these
guys are in their mid and late thirties even now,
they have not calmed down. They have so many empty
possessions with dumb passes from Curry from Green front like
just thrown away, just chaos, nonsense, and like they'll span
entire quarters, entire halves, like that's just priced in. It's
never going away. Clearly, maybe it gets worse as those
guys lose it athletically over time. The way that Butler's
just total deliberate, calm control of possessions, sets, sets, is
set against that like sort of core identity of the
Warriors is just like it saves them. So it's it
did last year and it has this year too. Things
are getting ridiculous, and then Butler just gets fouled. Or
Butler passes up a shot, moves the ball, oh my god,
it's getting late in the shot clock, gets it back,
passes up another shot, gets into a spot up, fakes fouled,
or just like waits longer, just is more deliberate, takes
more time in a way that like we've the Warriors
have never had that guy that just settles it. And
so that's that's independent of but related to. I guess
what he does with the non Steph minutes which have
been good, like they've eaten into deficits when Steph has
set a couple times already this season, because that, yeah, no,
he's that's the one I'm getting to if you'd let
me get to the point. Steph Curry is super overrated
and should be shipped out for maximum value. No, it's
just specifically in the sense that Butler gives Golden State
a way to just like chill out and relax and
be confident that we can get a good shot when
we need to, or like just stop throwing the ball
over the gym. That element is new and it's been
like badly, badly needed for fifteen years more. I mean,
maye slightly more than that, I guess. So that's that's
the claim I'm making through two games, is that his
influence is just just unique in this version of the
Warriors history.
Speaker 1: I think I agree with you, and it sounds counterintuitive,
not even because like Steph Curry has played with Kevin
Durant and those are two of the most plug and
play superstars of all time, right, but because that almost
because Jimmy Butler in Fury isn't his plug and play
when you look at his limitations, like for his fit
and I'm probably stepping on the toes of a lot
of what you said. It feels like he just papers
over a lot of the gaps rather than coming in
and just coexisting into what everything else that they do.
And I think there's value, there's more value in that
for the Warriors because historically of just how much they
have struggled when Steph Curry is off the floor, and
so to have someone come in whould have that comic
presence when it's without Steph, I think is a big deal.
I have been impressed though, like just the way that
they've all worked together. I mean, even just looking at
throwing Jonathan Kaminga into the full grant would have been
your early impressions of just this is a team that, okay,
one of its core lineups apparently just in theory, isn't
going to have a bunch of good spacers, and yet
it's just going to work anyway. Is that an IQ thing?
Is it like something that you just view as sustainable
like would have been You're just because it's not just
the Butler and the Curry of it all, it's the
Warriors actively separated like Raymond Butler Kaminga dynamic last year,
and they don't seem like they're as inclined to do
that this year.
Speaker 2: I think there's kind of three things that have gone
into that. One is you just kind of got a
shit ter get off the pot, like with the Kaminga
being out there with your best players, thing. They just
wouldn't do it for spacing reasons and other reasons. They
just sort of have to now, partly because Moses Moody
has been hurt the first two games. I think you
might have seen Moody out there for some of that.
Speaker 1: The other fact, Moses Moody. When you have Will Richard,
I think, well, Dann.
Speaker 2: I got some Will Richard thoughts, like I know how
to play. He's in the right place all the time.
I love Will Richard. The other another aspect of it
is I do believe they They the Warriors think they
can think their way around the spacing issue. And so
far that's that's born out because Curry moving around still
bends a defense even if you don't have other shooters
out there. If Al Horford's out there, then your spacing
issues aren't quite as severe as you think. Butler will
shoot the open one too. He hit a huge one
in overtime against against the Nuggets on as we're recording
this Friday, on Thursday night. So yeah, they believe they
can think their way around it, which so far they have.
The other thing is Kaminga's look better shooting the three
ball like and and I don't know that he's at
it to go back to the shingoon of it all, Like,
I don't know if he's at a level where defenses
are worried about that. That still feels like a shot
of that that most defenders will view as a little
bit of a win because STEP's not shooting it and
they're not getting a pick and roll shot out of it,
and Butler's not posting up. So Kaminga shooting a three
is like a pretty good result for a defense. But
he's hit him at least certainly in the first game
and was at least a threat and hit a couple
I think in the second game at least one, So
that's part of it. I think if and Kaminga, to
his credit, has done some of the stuff they've asked
him to, Like he couldn't guard Luca for shit in
the first game, but what do you want? He has
bounded and his passing has been a lot better. He's
had at least two good passes like that led to
layups in both games so far. So he's doing the
stuff that he didn't before that the Warriors wanted to do.
So that helps too that you know the spacing issue
won't go away. Because Cominga goes cold or stops hustling,
and like then you're just back to why isn't Kurr
playing this guy for now? Though it's looked about as
good as it has and I think to circle all
the way back, A lot of that's because Butler just
like positions everybody to succeed. Like he literally shoved Kaminga
out on a kickout switch to stay in the corner
on a key play late in overtime last night, Like
he put him where he was supposed to be, didn't
tell him to, he like put his hand on him
and moved him. So just all hail Jimmy Butler, I guess,
is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Early in the season. But there's already been thirty plus
minutes of no Jimmy. Like with Jimmy and no Steph,
the Warriors are dead even so plus minus of zero,
net rating of zero, but an offensive rating of one
to twenty five, which is kind of insane. And Jimmy
Butler during this time is averaging twenty five points from
the free throw line per one hundred possessions? Is that
a lot? I'm asking for a friend that guy.
Speaker 2: So what I actually as a Warriors. Fanom concerned about
is that officials, I mean, sixty percent of the fallacy
draws are not fouls for anybody else. And if so,
if like there's a concerted effort to like scrutinize how
often is he actually getting fouled, that could hurt uh.
But it doesn't. It doesn't take away the sort of
calming impact that he has, which has just been massive
so far.
Speaker 1: I guess we're on to me now. So I don't
really know who do I want to pick. So Jimmy
Butler's off the board. We all knew I was gonna
pick Jimmy Butler. I feel like I don't want to
go here, but I'm gonna go here. The Sixers need
to be worried about. They're Joelle. They have a Joel
embiid problem. This is just we're at I don't know
what it is. Def Con one's the highest, right.
Speaker 2: One's the worst. You don't want to be at one.
Speaker 1: So we're we're close to def Con one if we're
not there already. And when you look at his debut
against the Celtics, I know he was on a minute's restriction.
I know he played a lot with Dominic Barlow. Can
you guess unless you already know the answer, grant how
many of his shots came inside the paint? He was
one of nine, which is bad. How many of those
shots came inside the paint?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I will guess, uh.
Speaker 1: One zero zero. He just he wasn't moving the same.
The defense wasn't great from him. He wasn't on I
understand he's on a minute's restriction as he comes back
from this left knee procedure, but he also just you
would assume that if the game is close, you would
put Joel Embiid back in if you think he's going
to help you. They closed with Dominic Barlow. Against the
Boston Celtics. There were plays where just flat out Xavier
Tillman was better than Joel Embiid. That is also just
a problem I understand now. I understand in the past
it has taken Joel Embiid time to ramp up from
injuries from his returns, and any player is going to
need that. My concern here is that Joel Embiid might
need to get used to coming back from these pockets
of time off, coming back and not playing a ton
of minutes. Are they playing him in shorter bursts coming
back and maybe having to play with another big man
coming back and figuring out, well, how do I adjust
to the speed at which VJ. Edgecomb and Tyrese Maxey
want to play versus the change of pace that Embiid provides,
and that frankly you need like VJ. Edgecombe even tyres MAXI.
Right now, maybe Maxie gets there or is headed in
that direction, they're not like, let's go break down this
set defense and like create something out of power our
way to the like that is Joel Ebe's job. He
will draw all the fouls, he can do some of
the finesse stuff do the pick can pop, but he
can work from anywhere. The Sixers need that version of him.
And so to me, I look at that performance, and
I'm sure everyone's seen the clips of oh it looks
like he can't jump, just not moving too well. That
could It just concerns me. I know he played better
in the preseason against the Timberwolves. But if Joel Embiid,
if we know that he is going to play in
fifty games, you don't have the margin for Arabilah. We
got like eleven bad Joel Embiid games. And when you
even just sort of look, they were outscored. I think
it was by sixteen points in his twenty minutes of action.
That is the single worst plus minus he has ever
had while playing fewer than twenty one minutes. It's one game,
but like this is this is a it's close to
alarming for me. I don't think the whole can Joel
Embiid win MVP again? That conversation's been done for a while,
But I think the hope was always can he get
back to an MVP level for X number of games
and X minutes of those games? I honestly don't know.
And the final thing I'll say is just what's most
jarring is minutes. Be damned. We should all be peeved
that Joelle Embiid wasn't on the court closing against that
version of the Celtics. By the way, when you look
at their front court, I think it's even more unsettling
to know that not playing him was the right decision
if you wanted to win that game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, great call, right, Like, and what world are
we living in where he's capable of playing and you
can't put him out there? So that to me, this
this raises a couple questions. The first is, and you
you alluded to it. He did look better in the
preseason for stretches. He didn't look quite as just immobile,
I guess is the word. So then do you think
that these types of games are just going to happen
and then and then? But I guess this is a positive.
You'll also get games where he just looks better, right
like is is? So it's the The issue is the
knee is tricky, right like, some days it feels okay,
some days it feels terrible. We should probably assume it
felt terrible in the opener for him, and you're gonna
have to live with the inconsistency. But the upside of
that is there will be some like quote unquote good
embid nights. Do you think that's the way to view
this or do you look at a game like the
opener where he looked so bad that you just sort
of have to say the ceiling for him, like the
level he can get to even on the good nights
is way lower than we thought it was. You know, what,
do you understand the distinction I'm trying to draw.
Speaker 1: I get the distinction. I think what worries me the
most is that I find myself leaning more and more
towards the ladder of it. Yeah, because even if that
ceiling is still super high relative to an average NBA player,
how do you continue if he's going in and out
of the lineup too. And I'm not saying he's gonna
miss every other game, but how do you make sure
that well we are catering to the way that VJ
edgecomb and Tyree's MAXI want to play versus well, then
how do we integrate it? Finding that balance between those
two styles feels like it could take like like not
just time, but that it might just be something you
can't even do again one game. We still haven't seen
Paul George with this team. I just I came away
not feeling great about it. And we'll see. He's always
I mentioned this before, He's always needed time to work
his way into form. But I think the idea of
Joel Embid now is forget everything we just said and
focus on what I just said, and focus on what
you said. When Embiid plays, I would say seventy to
eighty percent of the time, you want him to be
this dominant force then, so you're willing to surrender those games,
maybe even some of those minutes to say we know
we're gonna have seventy to eighty percent of the Joel
Embiid we had three years ago, whatever it was. I
don't know if you can say you're gonna get that
version of Joel Embiid on how many games a year
for like, just how many games do we expect him
to play in and how many games do we expect
him to look close to the Joel Embiid that we've
all come to know and appreciate. And this is not
the other thing I want to get out in front
of I'm not basking in this by I hate this
watching him and seeing that type of a game from him,
and he's dealt with on the court, off the court,
the injuries, the life stuff. Yeah, it's a lot of trauma.
It just to be here though, And we already knew,
like the alarm bells were going off way before where
there was the port he's never gonna play in back
to backs again. Their status was up in the air
basically all throughout training camp. I was personally, were you
surprised that he even got in a preseason game?
Speaker 2: Because I was, yeah, yeah, no, I think I think
one thing that the earl returns have done is change
the way because preseason it was like, well the Sixers
over unders forty two and a half. It just if
you could tell me how many games Embiid's gonna play,
I could tell you whether they're going fifty seven or
twenty three. Right. I don't think that's I don't think
you actually get a whole lot of information now based
on just well, how many games is Embiid gonna play?
Because because now it's just like because that presupposed that
he would be very, very good in the games he played,
and now it's like, well, if half of them are
going to be just trash and he's not helpful, and
you're at the point where you like you have to
decide early in the first quarter, is he just going
to be in the way of MAXI and edgecomb and
whatever else we want to do tonight? Like so you know,
like I think we've totally or you know, somebody probably
made this point, but I think we overlooked the possibility
that like, no, it's not how many games he plays
that determines the Sixers floor and ceiling. It's like if
he plays sixty five games and thirty two of them
are this. Who cares how many games he played, You
would think they can't be right.
Speaker 1: But even just even just as someone who like picks
him pops, if that's what you turned him into strictly
that yeah, he's going to have better shooting nights.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. This is why it's an overreaction.
And I will offer you another one with my next pick,
which is again, these are overreactions. The MAVs are going
to ruin Cooper Flag, everybody's favorite number one pick of
all time.
Speaker 1: This is number five though, Grant, so you're assigning some
real value to the Cooper flag.
Speaker 2: Alarmis I just want to talk about it. I think
more than anything, this is an inroad to discussing what
Dallas is doing holistically, which is just an interesting way
to try to play NBA basketball. In twenty twenty five,
He's flag started at a point guard. The MAVs were
super huge, Klay Thompson at the two, PJ. Washington three,
Anthony Davis power forward. Just sure, we're just gonna continue
to embrace this fiction, Derek Lively at the five, and
the offense was clunky, shocker right like they and get
also Victor wembin Yama was on the other side, So
maybe we're not measuring Dallas against a fair did you
opponent on.
Speaker 1: The occasions that you saw, because there was points where
he was You had mentioned this with Webbin Yab in general,
but you saw Cooper Flag, I felt like, actively avoid
the rim or he's falling away because he couldn't get
there even when he was going up to the ramon
Wemby's on the court. I almost just felt bad.
Speaker 2: For Yeah, because you just have to be thinking it
for him. He made several good moves to get space
and get to the basket, and I guess maybe this
is a credit to him. He just holstered a couple
shots that he could have attempted because he saw wembin
Yama there. Yeah, it's got to be a rude awakening,
that's all to say, though I actually don't. I thought
I was very impressed with like Cooper Flag colon point guard,
because he could get the ball over half court job
one uh check and he he actually I thought I
thought he spun a little too much. That feels like
a move that has always worked in high school and
college for him. Just a lot of spins and it
was less effective, but he still did get to spots
using it. I wouldn't be surprised if that's something he
kind of xcizes or limits going forward. I thought he
was fine as a point guard as an eighteen year
old rookie against the defense led by Victor Wembenyama. The
problem to me with Dallas's whole deal is that nobody
else on the floor with him can do anything with
the ball, Like Klay Thompson just zero as a shot
creator for himself. He'll take some bad leaners or whatever
when he just feels like he hasn't shot recently enough.
Davis not creating lively, not certainly not supposed to create PJ.
Washington kind of a dependent scorer unless you're in transition,
and so like, this guy is the most important figure
in your franchise by a mile, right. He's the reason
Fan Revolts have like simmered down and not boiled over
post Luca, And you're making it impossibly difficult for him.
You're putting him in a position that like, it's incredible
he can handle as well as he can, But who
is out there on the floor with him helping him
be like the best version of himself. Like maybe you
say the counter is trial by fire. If he's this great,
that he's not someone whose hand you have to hold,
he just figures it out. I still think there's room
for considering you want to be a huge lineup, great,
let's see how it works. There's got to be room
for focusing on who do we put out there that
make things easy, that make easier for Cooper Flag? Because
shouldn't you care that he's not just getting you know,
maximum difficulty situations every game all season? Like, I just don't.
That's the problem to me with Dallas's offense, not the
lack of a point guard, but the lack of other
creators out there with Flag that could come at any position.
They just don't have any of those guys.
Speaker 1: Do you think I would echo a lot of what
you said about him? That I saw a lot of
people ciding who was one of six at the rim?
The fact that he was getting to the rim at
all against that spurs defense and within Dallas's spacing, the
on ball speed is there. I think the handles a
little bit better than I expected to be. He looked comfortable.
I know they weren't necessarily going in, but like on
the pull ups on the turnarounds, like that's something he
can clearly do. Do you think though? So it comes
down to, like you, it needs to be someone else
who could create with the ball rather than what if
they did. We're able to surround him in lineups that
have three actual shooters.
Speaker 2: You could go either way. That either way would work, right,
Like if you're experimenting, do one or the other? I hesitate,
I can say.
Speaker 1: They can't do either, to be clear, because what is it?
What is Cooper Flag plus Davis or Lively? So it's
only one of those. How do you get to three
shooters without Kyrie?
Speaker 2: He has D'Angelo Russell has to be one. I think, Okay,
we're done.
Speaker 1: That's that's what I.
Speaker 2: Was gonna say. Is I hesitate to suggest that, well,
D'Angelo Russell is the answer to anything like so, but
he's the only guy. It's it's it's obvious right that
this is the most like foreseeable take regarding Dallas as
Dangela Russell is gonna need a bigger role at least
until Kyrie comes back, because he can make open shots,
because he can dribble, because he can playmake uh and
and if there's ever been a team that can cover
up for what he doesn't do defensively? Isn't it one
that plays four power forwards next to him? So like
that that can move. I just this was this was
easy to see coming. I guess I I still respect
the willingness to experiment. I just have a hard time
with the idea that Flag at this stage of his
career is being asked to do something that like, we
don't think Devin Booker can do in Phoenix, which is
like be someone that creates shots for himself, also is
a spacer for others and has to make plays like
that's just that's too much for him.
Speaker 1: This is it can't be because they have Kyrie, But
this should be the Kobe White team that would be
the perfect sort of in between. But you know you
have Kyrie comming. Does that make it more difficult too?
We don't need to get into trades this early in
the season. But this is a team seemingly operating on
a timeline that implies urgency. But how do you go
out and get someone who addresses this issue, assuming they
could game it because their cap situation is just they're
towing a fine line underneath the second apron. How do
you even go about it when you know that well
or you don't know when Kyrie's well. First of all,
we've heard everything from Christmas February when his power crystal
glows a hue of teal after a full moon. It's like,
I don't know, you don't know when he's gonna coming back.
That complicates it even further.
Speaker 2: Sure, and I mean part of that specific complication does
just tie to what we need to admit is just
a weirdly conflicting set of priorities and organizational decisions in Dallas.
Like just going back to you traded Luka Doncic because
you're on a win now timeline after he just took
you to the finals and you got the number one pick,
and now I guess you're still in win now mode.
So you're just completely sabotaging his development early because he
has to play point guard. I just it's do you
think it's a wild take Dan to say that Dallas
has sort of like not done the best you know,
planning timeline wise over the last eighteen months or so.
Speaker 1: You can't see the vision.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I can't see the vision.
Speaker 1: I will say this to me is a clear overreaction,
because I think he's good enough to where you can't
even ruin. I can't. This is I might have already
said this about him, but I came away from you.
Remember the Victor Women Yama game a few years ago
in summer Legue, whe people were panicking. I told you,
I think he's gonna be one of the best players
I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't know
if I would go that far, but I came away
if I had only seen that Spurs game, I came
away thinking about Cooper Flag. Yeah, this guy's going to
make multiple MBA team.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I won't even hesitate to predict it.
Speaker 2: I just wish Dallas would maybe not ask him to
do everything right away.
Speaker 1: But what I guess we run into the issue of, though,
would we criticize them though if they went out and
made a move that ensured he didn't need to do
this is something one the criticism is, why didn't you
do more to address this over the offseason, because we're
focusing on something that was very clearly going to be
an issue. I think even had they done it in July,
or had they done if they do it now, they
do it before February fifth. I think I don't know.
I think we would probably criticize them if they if
we see that they gave up future first rd equity
to get Kobe White when they were ready have Kyrie Irving.
You think you and I are gonna come on and
paint that deal in the rosiest of terms.
Speaker 2: I don't know what I would think about that. I
do like Kobe White.
Speaker 1: Comment from l ol troll two one seven Cooper point
Guard Trial by Fire will pay dividends in the future year,
is my opinion, that's a least That's not after your
handle at all. That's a least trolley comment we've honestly
ever received. I would I would agree there's nothing. Do
you think anything bad? Is it gonna come out of
this for Cooper? No other than the numbers might not
look great.
Speaker 2: I I my my zag on this is just that
he's not the problem. Is that he's not the problem.
I think he actually could buy well at this Uh,
it's just you need to put somebody out there that
can also pass and dribble.
Speaker 1: I believe we are up to my pick correct, So
we're this pick number six. What do I have left
on the board Grant. I think you know where I'm
gonna go, but I am gonna go exactly where you
don't expect me to go. Let's talk about Anthony Edwards
is going to win the scoring title, and I don't
know if that's a good thing more after this break,
how is that for a teaser that we won't have?
This is one of those thumbnails the one he's the
one bad reason you should be rooting against the andby
Edwards winning the scoring title if you're a Timberloves fan,
that might be too long when it comes to character count.
So look, he has to do everything for this offense.
Now we've they saw it in Game one, Dante de
Vincenzo starts over Mike Conley, who doesn't really play. Neither
of them were good. That seems to be a little
bit of a problem. And then who else on this roster?
You okay, Julius Randall, fine, but after that it's his
Terren Shannon Junior doing their creation. Rob Dillingham Chris Finch
was evasive when I asked about it, But let's just
call a spade as bait. He's not ready, he's not
an insult, He's a sophomore, doesn't have a ton of
playing time under his belt. This team's trying to win.
Anthony Edwards the basketball player looks absolutely terrifying. I don't
know if he's going to average forty plus points a game.
I'm not ready to rule it out, though, because I
think that he needs to carry that level of burden
for the offense. What say you, mister Grant Hughes, I yeah.
Speaker 2: I had the same thought. I will say. Well, let
me ask you also, were you surprised because the de
Vincenzo is gonna start? It all kind of came out
late and I was ready to make the case earlier
that I could see this happening a couple weeks in
if Conley looks his age and the offense is kind
of sputtering like it did for stretches last year. But
to go with the Vincenzo game one really felt like,
to me, an admission of we know what we need,
which is more dynamic shooting, just someone who's more mobile,
et cetera, et cetera, and Conley just doesn't have it anymore.
I wouldn't be surprised to see this flip back if
the offense continues to be so Edward centric. I do
think it would be a problem if he is out there,
you know, crazy higher usage than before, blows away his
previous career high for scoring, just because if that happens,
it's a situation. You were kind of touched on this weirdly,
like the Dallas issue and even the Houston issue of like,
this guy's got to do too much, and it's like,
as great as he is and like, you know, athletically
unlimited and as much growth as he's shown just adding
a three point shot last year, it almost gets to
where if he is leading the league in scoring, the
Wolves are good, But it almost gets into like good
stat big numbers, bad team guy, because if you're a
better team, you don't need Anthony Edwards to get forty
every night. But it feels like the Wolves maybe are
trending that way, especially if Gobert takes another step down.
I don't know, Conley really can't be played. Dillingham's never
gonna be ready this year. Like there's a scenario where
Edwards is leading leaguan scoring and the Wolves just like
aren't a top six threat, which is not what I
thought they would be. I think they'll be that good,
but it's got to happen with somebody running the offense
besides Edwards, Right, it can't just be him, certainly, not
in the playoffs especially, and those should be the games
they care about. He's got to have somebody else out
there doing stuff.
Speaker 1: Do you think this is all? Are we overthinking it?
Or is it a problem? When they do have Julius
Randall on the team.
Speaker 2: Julius Randall will confound me forever because it's undeniable that
as a secondary creator at the four, like he's valuable.
And it's not because he's a Jokic level court mapper
or anything, but it's because he'll compromise the defense with
a drive and make the easy pass and sometimes that's
all you need from a secondary guy. He can do that.
I don't know how valuable that is still, like just
just because sometimes he seems like the problem. But for
this Wolves team, and this was kind of the analysis
when they made the trade last year, like makes sense
somebody besides Edwards to move the ball and create a
shot once in a while, especially since Conley's slipping, Like,
I just don't know what to do with with Randall
because I guarantee you at points this year he'll seem
like the solution, and he'll also seem like the problem
like that that's just how he exists in my brain.
Speaker 1: I think I'm with you in the sense that I
don't think I don't think he needs to get forty
one points every game, But I don't know Anthony Edwards
needs to hover around thirty five usage. Yeah, it feels
as if they're going to need that from him this year,
or at least is it's not going to be solved internally,
is what I would.
Speaker 2: Say, Well, it is, does can I pitch you on something?
Does doesnas Reed starting over Gobert to just give you
another offensive option and be a five out type of option?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Is that a way to work around neither the Vincenzo
nor Conley is really good enough to start at the one,
like do you get do you get better offense through him?
And you compromise the defense pretty badly obviously, But that's just.
Speaker 1: How I guess you connect Conley and Gobert again coming
off the bench. But now you're just getting away so
fundamentally away from what got you to two conference finals
right that it's just I don't know the idea of
Randall and nos Reed in the front court is just
a counter like throughout the game. Sure, but as you're
starting front court, which team? Which which playoff team? Would
you feel comfortable with that starting front court against?
Speaker 2: I mean none. That's why I think there's a threat
that they're not in the top six. If that's how
they have to go, oh wow, Well if you don't
get a I'm still a you know, top five dpoy
season from Gobert and you don't have good point guard play, Like,
how what does Edwards have to do to get you
up over fifty wins? You know, it's just it's there.
It just feels like they're gonna have to make concessions
somewhere after one game again overreacting, it is your turn?
Speaker 1: Which pick are this? We're six picks in. What's still
on the board for you? Grant?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, let's do this one. Nobody can beat a
fully healthy Thunder four times and seven tries. The counter
to that is they need a double overtime in both
their wins this year, and they went to seven games
in two series last postseasons, so obviously the Thunder are beatable.
The counter to the counter is it kind of looks
like aj Mitchell is just another guy that is going
to be really good, and he's gonna do it in
ways that this Thunder team specifically desperately needs, which is
he can get to the paint and he can make
a pass, and he can finish, and he can make
open threes. You don't get that consistently from Wallace, from Dort,
from I mean, even Aaron Wiggins, who's also been pretty awesome.
You don't necessarily get that from who else? Am I
forgetting Wallace Dort? Anyway, Caruso so already missing games, already
missing games. The other aspect of it, Shay is still Shay,
and if he's gonna get twenty six foul shots and
I it was double overtime, but still good luck winning
close games against the Thunder. I thought, especially against Houston
in the early going, Holmgren looked like he'd leveled up offensively.
The three point shot still rattles in. It rarely looks perfect,
but it looks a little better. And I think some
of his drives and some of his like just his
aggression level getting downhill, just building off of last year,
which I flagged that last year is like, this is
impressive what he's doing offensively. I think I think Chet
being someone that can be the secondary scorer when because
Jalen Williams hasn't played yet, that's a factor. I think
that really gives the Thunder, along with Mitchell, another way
to keep the offense from looking really bad, which even
against houston great defense, it still did. There were some
gnarly stretches where the threes weren't falling. That was a
huge part of it. But Mitchell addresses that too, and
maybe Chet does. There's just like this team is not
at full strength and you can still squint and see
major growth from guys that address specifically what few frailties
the Thunder have. So by the time you get to
the postseason, maybe that growth has even increased and guys
are healthy. Just like, what do you how do you
hold out hope if you're some other team, especially in
the West, right.
Speaker 1: I think you're doing too much here. The fact that
they just haven't had j dub and now he'll come
back and everything will trip. You mentioned that Aj, Mitchells,
even Chat Holmgren, just all their jobs gets so much
easier that should I feel like that should terror. I
know it took double two, double overtime for them to
be two and zero and they're pretty beaten up right now.
Look at who they were missing in the set. I know,
Indianda was missing a ton of players, including Andrew dedmar
by the end of it. But like, this team is
just it. It has the ability to win in what
you would can say in what you would say is
unconvincing fashion, and then it just makes them more convincing
because they're just able to win imperfectly. A lot of
these guys are gonna shoot better from three, and I
just can't unless you think Jadav's gonna be out forever
or come back and the wrist injuries really gonna have
like impeded his handle or something. I'm sure that's on
the table. I especially after watching Nuggets Warriors a kind
of gameway, think, oh all right, like maybe the thunder
are ahead of the field more so than I thought.
And it's I do think I was just kidding when
I'm saying you were doing too much, like just you
justify your points too much, sir. It's really what you
were too thorough, keep it simple. I I don't know
where Caseon Wallace was in the most Improved Player ballot,
but he was too low like he was just too low,
So I there's always just gonna be another guy here.
And I think that the big takeaway from all this
is there are gonna be games where hey, maybe at
least one of Caruso, Wallace and j dub are playing.
Imagine how good the Thunder might be?
Speaker 2: Then do you? I I find myself and I wonder
if you do. Like, as I'm watching the Thunder, because
you do have to start from the greatest point differential
of all time, you know, baseline, I find myself looking
for reasons why they aren't clearly the best team, so
I'll fixate on, well, they were five of twenty eight
from three or something at one point against Houston and
all Man, this offense looks clunky and if SGA is
not getting downhill, they can't score. I'm looking for stuff
because the do you do that or because it's like
obviously this The basic take is like they're the best
team by a lot, and I almost I think I
do that because I just want things to be more
interesting competitively, So like, are you when you watch the Thunder?
It sounds to me like you're just kind of like, man,
this is overwhelming. They're really great, But do you like
nitpick as much as I do, because that's because what
else are we looking at when we're watching the Thunder
other than saying, like, Wow, this team's good.
Speaker 1: Well, I think what you do, I think you could
and would be fair is and how often, as we
talked about it is are they still too over reliant
on Shay Gilt just Alexander offensively? And that's looked like
the case so far this season. At the same time,
they're missing a huge piece, and that huge piece is
their second option on the offensive end, if not just
their second best player overall. But I do focus on
picking knits because, like, isn't that our job. We're supposed
to believe that the NBA has this ton of parody,
and I believe it does. I'm not saying the Thunder are.
You know, there was an air of anevitability with the
Kevin Durant Error Warriors that I don't think this Thunder
team has. But maybe they have the potential to reach
that level. It's you could still you know, you mentioned
the three point shooting. There are still nights where it
feels like they look imperfect. It looks like their wins
are they're coming. They're harder than they need to be. So, yeah,
I'm open to the idea that a Denver, a Golden State,
a Cleveland or New York or somebody could come in.
But I do think that sometimes we overthink it that
I think that's that's what happened to last season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm guilty of that because I'm looking for reasons
why this team isn't the juggernaut it seems to be.
I think you have a pick next if you can
get your get your light situation.
Speaker 1: We're having some light situation. I'm having some light situations,
I should say. And so it's very very annoying.
Speaker 2: But the show to steal a pick. I'll steal your
pick if you want you if you need time for maintenance.
Speaker 1: No, I can get us to another pick. So let's
see what do we have left. So I feel we've done.
How many West teams in a row have we done?
I feel like it's time to go to the East.
Let's do Okay, here's this one. Giannis attent to Kompo
Grant is going to post the highest usage rate in
NBA history. Now, just as a little bit of a background,
Russell Westbrook currently owns the record. He had forty one
point six. I believe it was in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen.
After one game, Jannis has a forty eight point three
usage rate, or depending on what you go by, it
might be in the forty five. They're also it should
I should know they're dealing with an injury to Kevin
Porter Junior. So it's just like it's not gonna be honest,
who else is it gonna be? Type deal here?
Speaker 2: This is how else is it gonna happen? For the bucks?
Like now, of this is an overreaction, So it would
be kind of amazing if he could get up into
the high forties and usage rate or even forty five,
But like, where else is the is the offense coming from?
If not him getting downhill and scoring or kicking the
shooters or turning it over, Like that's just that's how
that's the recipe here, because there are they're just aren't
especially with Kevin Porter, like he could sort of create shots.
He's never been efficient at that task. Specifically, He's had
some good shooting seasons, but like other than him, they're
going to start Ryan Rollins with With Porter out and
Rolins offense is very much a question mark. I think
I thought he might get that job eventually because he
can guard, but now he's tasked with more of an
offensive role with the starters. Like, I just think this,
this was always going to be built around Giannis. I
would not be at all surprised if he's at least
threatening that. This is one of the over the first
overreactions we've gotten to other than Wenby of course, where
it's like, yeah, I kind of see it, like he
might actually lead the league in usage. He might ever
set the record, because what is Miles Turner going to
turn into like a self sufficient scorer all of a sudden?
Where's it to come from?
Speaker 1: I honestly have no idea what would be the best
option if you had to pick. Let's assume everybody's healthy.
Is it KPJ? Do you trust it to be? Not? Trust?
Trust is a strong word. I apologize no, is it
Kyle Kuzma? They also so there's just no options. And
then if you're the Bucks, let's say you have the
ability to go out and change that I don't like.
Do you do that when you have all the kind
of Yannis stuff floating in the ether, The speculation, the
rumors surrounding his future, his opaque oh opaque comments on
his future. I don't I do not know, and I
think that makes it tough. But if Yannis is going
to have a let's say a forty five usage, how
how good do you feel about Like it's the only
answer putting the ball in His says, but do you
think the bucks are bad? Do you think that if
he's healthy that they'll still just be fine.
Speaker 2: I just don't think you can expect, to ask Russell Westbrook,
you can't expect high efficiency if your usage is that high,
Like that just is sort of impossible. Like the gold
standard always was. If you're a thirty percent usage guy
and your true shooting's over sixty, that's like that's Kevin Durant,
you know, that's like that's that's Steph Curry or the
and the usage was hard to get to for those guys.
Jannis is a very efficient scorer, at least has been.
If if his usage is that high, I think even
he who just makes all the two point baskets because
he dunks and la.
Speaker 1: Twos in the first game.
Speaker 2: Yes he so I just don't feel like that sustainable.
I think the other issue is not to bring everything
back to this like this is the recipe for him
finally deciding I can't win here because if you have
to do everything, and he's always a player that's done everything,
even with Drew Holliday and Chris Middleton and Brook Lopez
on the title winning teams, Like if he goes through
this season and it's just running himself into the ground
and every possession lives and dies with him, and the
Bucks are five hundred, he has to finally look around
and be like, if I actually do want to win
a title, it must be conceded that it cannot happen
here because we don't have the ability to play any
other way. And this isn't working, Like, this isn't enough.
So like the narrative of he's killing himself out there
and the Bucks are the seven seed or the eight
like that, that will have to drive the point home
finally and that's what will trigger the trade request.
Speaker 1: You could.
Speaker 2: I can just see it playing out that way.
Speaker 1: Now. Is it counterintuitive to say Yannis will have the
highest usage rate in NBA history, but Anthony Edwards is
gonna win the scoring title?
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: Edward shoots more threes, Yiannis will get more free throws,
So I don't think he's Yeah.
Speaker 2: What's what's uh? Yeah? What what? What's the scoring average?
Look like? If Giannis is up there above Westbrook levels
of usage, he's gonna have to be like thirty five
a game? Right?
Speaker 1: Do you think this is? So? I don't think this
is an overreaction. I know what? Would you go as
far as to predict it? I would say his usage
rate is gonna be at least forty and if it's not,
I feel like he might have been traded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that one. Maybe that's that's the like.
Neither of those are overreactions. I support and favorite both
of them. All right, I'm gonna take my next pick here.
Speaker 1: Let's see pick number nine. We're nearing the end. Aren't
you getting a little sad?
Speaker 2: I think there's a certain Yes, well, I'm sad because
there's one on the board. But I if you don't
take it, I guess I have to take it with
my next pick because I have two left. I'm gonna
leave it because I want you to have to talk
about it. Let's go with where's my Lakers one? Here
we go. The Lakers dan are headed for the play
in or worse. This is an overreaction. Lakers fans. By definition.
I'm not one hundred percent sure that it's true. I
will just say that based on one game again where
Luka Doncic was really good, it was abundantly clear that
there is not enough around him in the shooting department,
in the shot creation department, in the DeAndre Ayton department,
which is what everybody focused on, he looked really bad.
It's Draymond Green, it's Al Horford, It's the Warriors. You know,
that's a tough that's a tough set of opponents to
go at. I just we kind of knew this about
about the Lakers a little bit. Like without Lebron, everything
goes through Luca Austin Reeves can even have a good game.
There's just too many guys that when the ball gets
swung to them, either you don't trust him as shooters
or they're not gonna put it on the floor and
do something with it or both. And just the makeup
of the team offensively feels it's kind of a banging
the same drum here, like Luca has to do too much.
And then defensively, like there are good there are defensive
lineups that they can get to. It's just they involved
Jared Vanderbilt and maybe Marcus Smart, who, by the way,
Dan was not doing what I would call playing basketball
against Golden State. If you saw any of that game,
whatever he was doing out there was a different sport
that involved falling down and trying to dislocate stuff. Curry's
arm would is to say, like, I don't trust the
defense at all, even with Lebron, and offensively, if Lebron's
not out.
Speaker 1: There and.
Speaker 2: Just pretty close to what he was last year, I
think this is I don't think Luca has anything close
to the level of talent around him that he did
on like a lot of those Dallas teams. It's just
that this team doesn't have enough around him on either
end to feel like a clear top six. And I
don't think either of us necessarily had them their preseason.
Just the first game drove it home to me, like
the issues are what we thought they were and they're legit.
Speaker 1: I from what am shocked that signing the fifteenth best
center from the twenty twenty one season did not just
fix everything.
Speaker 2: You've always been an ad and defender too, Like you know,
you weren't the whole like snowed in thing. The ice
at the house, the mattress, like, none of that. Ever,
you were on board the whole time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never I've been in the bad look. I
think he's fine at this point, as you're even, he
could probably be a starting center on a team that
had not Luca and Austin Reeves defensively as their backcourt.
And that's where I find myself more concerned about this
team is. Yeah, they might have a limited decision making
on the offensive end, but Lebron will play at some point,
we believe in. So just between him, Luca and Reeves,
you'll figure you'll figure it out on offense, would be
my belief. And if you don't, we have we have
way Like they are so far gone we don't even
need to be talking about them on this podcast. Quite frankly,
I don't know, and you mentioned this already, how do
you get to even if you're willing to torpedo the offense?
I know you mentioned Jared Vanderbilt, but how do you
get what is their best defensive lineup? On paper? It
is Jared Vanderbilt, Jake la Ravia.
Speaker 2: Jordan good Gabe Vincent.
Speaker 1: Is he playing Gave Vincent? I said Jordan Goodwin. I
meant Gabe Vincent, Jordan Goodwin's on the sun. They probably
should have kept Jordan Goodwin. Does it have to be
smart by default and then you just put Lebron or
Luca in there? I don't. And what is that defense anyway?
I so it's man, it's and it's funny because so
they come out of their first game and they allowed
one point one eight points per possession. I know it
was the Warriors. You could look at that and say like, oh,
there are other teams that did worse. I just I
don't see it for this team on defense. And we
talked a lot about this in the preseason, is they're
kind of short on If you think that DeAndre Ayton's
fine as your starting center, I will concede that I don't.
I didn't see anything that made me think he's still
just allergic to rolling all the way, which is mind boggling.
It it's it's not even the Dwight Howard thing to
where it's Dwight just didn't want to do it. It's
like he just bails out of it. Like at least
when Dwight rolled, he rolled. It was more about why
won't you actually put yourself in place? Where you can roll.
I really do not. I just don't like Jackson Hayes
still needs to play, is what I'm getting at. So, like,
if you think your starting center is set, what is
happening at the backup five? You try and just get
away with Jared Vanderbilt minutes there At some point more
is MAXI klebe Ever gonna be someone that you could
trust there? And then the other thing. This sounds stupid
to say, but like JJ Reddick, only how many guys
were actually part of the game one rotation When you
really think about it, it was nine, but it kind
of felt like it was seven or eight really to
where it's like the Jackson hayeses on the floor, we're
just conceding that these minutes are gonna be a disaster
and we're throwing him to the Wolves. So I don't
this might be an overreaction. I had them as a
playing team I think coming into the season, So it's
not an overreaction to me. I think. I don't know
that Lebron comes back and it, yeah, they'll win more games,
they'll be a better team. But to your point, he's
not fixing the defense, and it's been when's the last time.
We even pointed to Lebron as someone who is helping
your defensive ceiling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not consistently, maybe in spurts. I just think it
would have been nice in their opener to have seen
a couple things that would have put the lie to
our preconceived notions of the defense is just gonna struggle,
or like you had the Lakers schemed differently or use
Vanderbilt at center a lot. They've done something to give
us a sense of like, well, okay, it could work
this way, you know, as opposed to just reaffirming all
of the concerns that we had that had us kind
of putting them in the play in territory, that would
have been nice.
Speaker 1: Maybe me get that, is there anything too well, this
team has to shoot better from three? There is that
we're simplifying.
Speaker 2: It, you could say, because they do have like I
you know, if it's like Hachimura and Gabe Vincent and
you know Jake Lauravia or maybe Dalton connect does what
he did earlier last year, there are guys that you
would you've got a guard at least, and Luca can
find them. So maybe that's a way for that doesn't
address the defensive stuff. I don't know that anything can
at this point, You've got to pick to go here?
Speaker 1: Oh, I do what? What am I gonna go with? Though, Grant,
I do what you want me to go with. I'm
not even sure if I want to talk about it,
but I feel like to stay true to the brand,
I should be the one to pick it though. So
we're going to talk about the New York Knicks and
how they are the clear favorite in the Eastern Conference
after one game, a win over the Cleveland Cavaliers that
looked like at one point it was gonna be a blowout,
and then they almost let well they did let the
Cavs come back until.
Speaker 2: Mitchell happened in the third quarter.
Speaker 1: Don Mitchell happened in the third quarter. Evan Mowley was happening
throughout that game quite frankly, even when the shots were
going in. I came away from that I was surprised
at how many people didn't come away from that game
thinking that the Knicks are materially different. You see like
og Ananobi bringing the ball up on the floor, bring
the ball to the floor after rebounds. McHale bridges more initiation,
there was a stat from aop underscore NBA. Someone I've
actually worked with on the side. Shoutouts to him, does
great work with his graphics. Jalen Brunson Grant since he's
joined the Knicks, has never spent more time off the
ball or had more of his field goal attempts come
off assis. That isn't That is insanity, And I think
you could say not Jalen Brunson's most efficient game. The
like some of the shots he was taking, they're gonna
go in, and yeah, they still went to him in
crunch time. You're still gonna need him to bail you
out a lot. I think that he's like, I think
it's gonna come together for him, and like in this
offensive playing off the ball more. I've never subscribed to
the idea that he's not adaptable. I'd be more worried
about Karl Anthony Towns quite frankly. The other thing that
I noticed, and this is probably the wrong takeaway to
come away from that game, just mchal Bridges getting two
feet in the paint. This is someone who and we
saw this in preseason, but last year he took almost
twenty percent of his shots came his twos outside of
the paint. I think it was like eighteen point six
percent or something. He took one of those shots in
the first game of the season. It was kind of
and I know that he only took eleven, but like
when you look at his drives, his drives per minute
were up. He was getting deeper into the paint. They're
trusting him with more initiation. His number of touches in
the front court were technically down, but his ball possession
per minutes of court time were actually up. They weren't
putting him at the point of attack as much. Defensively,
I think being able to play Deuce McBride with him helps.
We saw og Anobi there as well, I would say,
and we saw Grant. I don't know if you saw this.
We even saw some og an Andobe at the five
for a high.
Speaker 2: Did I watched the whole game. I clocked I don't
remember clocking that.
Speaker 1: But that's a it's a new dawn in the Mecca, sir.
And what I will say is that Ojiannowi's gonna make
First Team All Defense, Jalen Bruns will be top five
on the MVP ballot. And I think this team wins
sixty something games even though they're center rotation is banged
the shit. Here's my actual takeaway from this, though, is
that I do believe the Knicks are more dynamic than
last season. I think it's an overreaction right now to
say they're the clear favorites to come out of the East.
And I think Cleveland's gonna be better as they get
Max Shrus back, as they get DeAndre Hunter back, as
they get Darius Garland's pretty good, right who see already
season he's semi important. Lonzo Ball might make a three,
who knows. Yeah, I do find I find myself a
little worried about the Cavs defense. I know they have
Allen and Mobley, and Allen will get better once Garland
comes back specifically, but you know, I wasn't an Isaaca
Corro guy, but as a defensive innings eater in the
regular season, I find myself wondering, oh, did they need
as a good quorl a little bit now? But also
the Orlando magic exists and there we don't know if
their offense is gonna be good, but they're probably gonna
make some more threes. Apparently they're not gonna play faster,
which whatever, So I just I don't think the Knicks
are there yet, in part because what the fuck grant
emphasis on fuck is going on with their injuries right now.
The Josh Hart back tweak, no big deal, He'll be
ready for Opening Night, except he won't be And by
the way, he's not gonna practice or participate in anything
that has to do with contact. In the meantime, we're
going to load manage Mitchell Robinson so meticulously that he
can't play on Opening night. There's nothing to see here
about his ankle. And you have Karl Anthony Towns after
Game one saying I'm trying to play through a great
two quad straight. Yeah, that's not. First of all, I'm
not accusing anybody of anything. That's not something you do.
Like Gray two. I looked it up. Those are classified
as partial significant tears, right, you're not. I If the
Knicks let him play through that, someone needs to get fired.
I know he wants to be out there for the fans,
but you need to shut him down again if that's
the injury. So they were pretty healthy last season. I
know Jalen Brunton missed time, but Michel Bridges, Josh hard Ogann,
Andobi even Towns like they played a bunch, and I'm
just starting to wonder the depth is important because they
might need it just to get by. But when in
game one you've already found yourself, Oh, Trey Jemison needed
to get minutes. Yeah, Ariel Huckporty was starting. That's actually
my question with the Knicks is one, are they as
deep as we think? But two of these three sort
of just wtf injury situations? Are we just of the
belief that they're all just gonna resolve themselves and be
perfectly fine. I don't so. I think the Knicks are better.
I think they're more dynamic. They could win the East.
I think it's a stretch to say, especially because they
just beat the Calves who were shorthanded themselves, that they
need to be the clear favorites. Look, our viewers went
up as I would yelling about the Knicks. Is that
the recipe?
Speaker 2: I'll say the quiet part out loud. This These injuries
are just the result of unbending task master Mike Brown
and his three a day preseason practices and his ridiculous
minute demands and his refusal to lengthen the rotation. And
until the Knicks get a coach that's willing to be
more dynamic and not run his players into the ground.
This is just gonna be your reality, Dan, You're gonna
have to adjust to it. Uh. This week, Like, isn't
it funny that like TIBs is gone and this is
what's like, how all these guys seem broken down? It's
like maybe maybe, well maybe Tims was onto something. Maybe
maybe running guys into the ground keeps him healthy.
Speaker 1: Dan, Well, isn't it counter? Wouldn't the counter be he's
the one that broke them and then left before get out?
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way to prove that playing everybody
forty seven minutes a night leads to injury down the line.
Good luck, good luck with that one.
Speaker 1: Can we go on it aside? Really quickly? One, he
did play eleven players, but at the end of the
first quarter. But you what did you see the report
that the Knicks also did background exploration of talking to
Joe Mizzoula before they hired Mike Brown. I have two
takeaways from this. That is a level of just audacious
due diligence that I just respect at this.
Speaker 2: Is that just googling him?
Speaker 1: Though?
Speaker 2: Is that just googling Joe Missoula and head coach, like,
oh shit, they's already taken, or like chat.
Speaker 1: GP team, what's his contract status? Probably, but with this
information coming out, I know that these open just hot.
Like if you're Mike Brown and you're saying, so why
was their seventh choice behind Billy Donovan at some point
that that has to clock. I know there's only thirty
head coaching jobs, but I want to say, as someone
who went off on their coaching search at first, and
I did walk it back after, I respect it, I
just it was so just brazen. I'm like, you know what, yeah,
what the hell? I don't just huge with psychopath Joe Missoula.
And by the way, some of these guys owe the
Knicks to thank you because of I think they seven
or six currently employed head coaches. Four of them ended
up getting extensions after the fact.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you think the Knicks get a cut of
that just because clearly they made it happen.
Speaker 1: Maybe they get made through like carbon credits or something.
Where are you at with the Knicks though relative to
the rest of the.
Speaker 2: East, I still I came into the year viewing Cleveland
as probably better, but the Knicks in that tier of two,
and then you've got your like Orlando not quite there
for me yet, but obviously as the one you'd pick
to get into that top echelon of the East. I
don't know that I left the opener thinking a whole
lot differently other than like, as you alluded to, the
Knicks are gonna play differently like they're and their players
like Brunton will be doing different stuff, and Og will
be doing and bridges. So that was my main takeaway.
I think the the other side of it was I
was pretty unimpressed by Cleveland, at least until Donovan Mitchell
made it a game in the second half, and and
but that was sort of all he had. He couldn't
carry that through to the fourth good like obviously Cleveland
was missing critical players like Garland being chief among them.
Pretty impressed by Mobili, I still think. I still think
at full strength, I just trust the Calves to say,
win more games in the regular season or or play
like a team that can win more games. Obviously being
at full strength effects how many games you're gonna win.
But very encouraged by the Knicks just because it does
feel different, and that was always the hope is that like, well,
maybe they aren't better on balance but it'll look they'll
try to get there a different way and maybe there's
a higher ceiling that way. Early indications are just like, yeah,
this is this is not going to be the same operation.
That's all you that's all you want, right Like really
from the Knicks, it's not like they they lack talent.
It just needed to be deployed a little differently, and
I think we saw that.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I really want to know what the defense
is going to look like when everyone's together, because it's
just you can't get a good sense of it right now.
But ogn Andobi looks fantastic. McHale Bridge is not defending
at the POA. Every second looked really good on him.
How much of that was I mean Cleveland made some
offensive mistakes. I will say he's a bonus. Is this
even an overreaction? I'd mobile in my top five in
my preseason NBA ballot. He looked feeling pretty good about it,
handled it. Yeah, he looked really good. Your last pick
handle with care.
Speaker 2: Here's where the question comes in, like do I trust
you to take this one so we can talk about it?
Or are you too afraid? Are you too much of
a of a coward to take it.
Speaker 1: I think it's always safe to assume that I'm a coward.
So if you want to talk about it, you should
probably talk about it now, all.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm gonna do it. Dan overreaction time read Shepherd
is a bus man. Would you did it? Would you know?
Speaker 1: I figured I was gonna go someone we've already talked about,
the Rockets. I was gonna go to something else.
Speaker 2: But so this is this is one of the few
overreactions that in the moment as I was watching the
game that almost verbatim the thought occurred to me. So
I feel like, just to be honest about my thoughts,
I feel attacked.
Speaker 1: I can't attacked.
Speaker 2: It's one game, so don't feel too attacked. I don't
even care that he couldn't make shots. The concern for
me too, The main one is, and the most conspicuous issue,
is he got absolutely torched. Not just by Shay because
that's gonna happen, but like lou dort Is driving downhill
at him and spinning for clean layups like he I
was didn't read Shepherd have a reputation in college as
like a shockingly disruptive defender, like someone that actually I mean,
it's like the steel raid and the deflection stuff and whatever.
He is going to have to figure out how to
not be completely targeted on every possession by every team
or he will not be playable that side of the ball.
Like maybe it was nerves, maybe it was the thunder
are just mean, but it wasn't just major offensive threats
that were making him look really bad. It was kind
of everybody. So that's a huge red flag and a
huge problem that could be significant enough on an Imma
Oodoka team that a lot like Jamal Moseley in Orlando,
like basically demands that you can guard and so like,
even if it were true that if given the minutes,
Shepherd could really be the other offensive folkrum or like
a playmaker, I guess shot generator that this team needs
to support Thompson to support Sangoon. Even if that were true,
which nothing so far we've seen suggests that it is,
he might not get the opportunity because he just can't
guard specifically on this team that requires that, right, So like,
I just think I think the the reed Shepherd is
is coming in to save this operation was always like ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But whoa I mean, you know, but now I feel
a to.
Speaker 2: I just think like if if he's not gonna he
might not be able to get on the floor. If
he's gonna defend like this, an overreaction, caveat flashing neon
sign like one game, so on and so forth. It
was the Thunder, so on and so forth. If his
defense looks like this, I don't know why he's gonna
get more than the five hundred whatever minutes he got
last year.
Speaker 1: This is an overreaction. You're an idiot. I don't know
who even nominated it. Here's my thing, and you already
said this. It was one game, but you said this
at the end. It was one game from someone who
is basically in his rookie season. When you look at
how much he played yep last year. And I think
that while the Thunder offense was like no starter was
allowed to make a three for the most of that game,
they have someone who is kind of able to pick.
The way that they can on their offense is they're
gonna pick on certain guys. And they singled read jepherd
out for whatever not for whatever reason, because he struggled
to your previous point, some of the people building him
up coming him out of the draft was like, we
you look at his side like he might have some strength,
like he'll be fine on defense. So if you want
to panic about the defense, sure, I look at the
offense and the fact that he couldn't handle Okase's pressure
bringing the ball up a few times. It did make
me a little queasy. But then we just talked about
it with Aman Thompson and the Rockets at large, it
was okay. See, And so I think what needs to
happen with sophomores who are less than a thousand minutes
or whatever into their NBA regular season careers. They need reps,
and the Rockets need to figure out whether they have
the stomach to offer him those reps. I'm not saying
you need to run the entire offense through him. I
also think, by the way, that is something I know
what this team needs. But part of the read Shepherd
feature is, well, don't put him on the ball all
the time, run him off some screens, help him space
the floor. Four Amen Thompson or four Alpern Shangun. I
think they can do more of that moving forward to say,
and I'm not saying you're saying this, this was just
a topic even though, I just want to reiterate, you
suck and this is mean. He's not how many games
before we would legitimately say, oh he can't play. This
isn't someone who's gonna be on the court during the playoffs.
It's not after one game against the Oklahoma City Thunder
of all teams. But is it twenty one games a
quarter of the season, Like is it fifteen when do
you actually start to get or do you start sounding
the alarm bells.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, if we get past the midway
point of this season and we feel the same way,
where like the you know, the offensive efficiency isn't where
it needs to be, even after maybe trying him in
the ways, I think you're wise. You're correctly suggesting he
might be better used on offense. And if it's I
mean the thing the defense I think might crystallize sooner.
Like if we go a month and every time he's
out there he's getting targeted and he's not holding up,
we can probably make some pretty like firm conclusions on
what he can be defensively. At that point, I think
offense is just gonna take longer and and will take
exploration of, Like how else can we make him valuable.
That's a half season thing for me. I do think,
like you know, we always say like the team itself
knows a little more about the guy, right Like they
see him in practice, they see what it looks like
against you know, internal competition. The fact that he the
fact that Thompson just got the starting point guard job.
And I don't know about you, but I kind of thought, well,
Sheppard and Thompson will start together like that, that'll be
your backcourt coming into the season, like most of the summer.
That's what I thought. The fact that he didn't get
that job at the outset and then looks bad right away.
This is why we're overreacting. But that's that's not a
positive sign. And I really do think there is something
too the defense just making it so Doka is not
going to play him, even if he becomes a much
better offensive player, especially as a playoff proposition. I would
love it if he were an innings eater and got
to run the show as a point guard against second units.
Maybe we haven't seen a ton of that, like that
would be something to explore. But the defense could just
be the non negotiable, right, Like that might be the
thing that he sorry, man, you can't play.
Speaker 1: Do you? And I guess how much of that though,
So when you look Dorian Phinney Smith not healthy right now?
Try Eastan was pretty awful? Is that a stretch to say?
Speaker 2: In that first game conspicuously bad?
Speaker 1: You already know even though I said, okay having him
space the floor around Aman Thompson, it's well because A'm
and Thompson has so much ball handling responsibility. Right now,
you already know those two should be staggered. Is it?
They need to experiment more with who they're tying him to,
Like there was the I can't remember what the lineup was,
but he was with Shangun and Durant Reed Shepherd and
I think Easan might have even been a but like
it worked and it was maybe you just need to
insulate he should he probably shouldn't be on the floor
with Clint Capella at this stage. Now that gets fuzzy
because you're dealing with because then you're dealing with bench units.
But I'm actually wondering if you can put better defense
around him, And yes, it's it's probably I'm twisting myself
into a pretzel saying, well, how many really good defenders
do you need around him. But I'm even saying you
look at the lineups, you probably just need one really
good perimeter defender on the court with him. And it
gets harder for them to do that if when Fred
Vanvliet's not healthy, so you're gonna stagger him from Am
and Thompson so rule him out a lot of the time.
And then is tardy Ethan gonna play like he did?
That wasn't the expectation. And so when Dorrin Phinney Smith
comes back, I'm wondering if you're like that settles out
a little bit, and so you're not talking about, oh,
is it Josha Kogi? Is it Kevin Durant to do
something defensively on the perimeter. I think Green Sheppard's going
to be fine. Now. Is my optimism waning a little bit? No?
Because I am a tried and true Reachepherd believer, and
if I won't believe in him clearly, who will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to say, I really it would
be a lot more fun if he could just be
what the Rockets see him to be. I'm not I'm just.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I missed it. What were the number of
games that you said just your dead set on. Oh,
we need to hit the panic button.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean you could give him a full season.
I'm gonna go half just to be meaner about it.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we are on to me. It's the final pick,
and so Grant, we have some decisions to make here.
Let's talk it through. Help me make my final pick here. Now,
we could do what I think the masses would do,
we could do what this podcast would do, or we
could straddle the in between.
Speaker 2: I think you got you know what, I definitely just
picked from my heart and what I wanted to talk about.
So it might be a mass's pick. I think you
might want to just keep the most people happy. What
do you think about that? All?
Speaker 1: Right, then, so we are going to go with VJ.
Edge Colemy's Rookie of the Year. It is not Cooper,
who is who even is Cooper flag? Grant, He's not
on guard.
Speaker 2: Tell you that.
Speaker 1: For all that we took away that was negative about
Joelle Bead's debut in Philadelphia, VJ. Edgecombe was spectacular, just
the chemistry. But first of all, Tyr's Maxie was great too,
the chemistry between him and Maxi. When Maxi was just
going off for seventeen and VJ. Edgecomb kind of took
a step back. VJ. Edgecombe scored ten straight points and
Tyre's Maxie I don't know how much he was on
the floor for that, but they played off one another
really well. The speed at which they play is insane.
If you had to give me one word to describe VJ.
Edgecomb right now, it might be fearless. He took thirteen threes.
He doesn't like the way he gets up and down
the floor in transition. Even just his baseline cuts are
oh no, I'm gonna go o. I don't care, I'm
gonna go all the way to the basket. What this
is just this is the back court of the future
in Philly is unless you think VJ. Edgecomb is a three,
which fine, that would actually work out quite well for
the Sixers because of who else is on the roster.
Where do you land on? We came into this season
and everyone said, what, well, let's before we get there.
What were just your initial impressions of the VJ. Edgecomb experience.
Speaker 2: I think it's hard for me to divorce them from
from the fit with Maxi, which gives the Sixers this
identity of we are faster and more athletic than you,
and we will get up and down and we will
attack like that kind of identity that like as a
tandem one is super exciting and two kind of doesn't fit.
If Joel embeads in the way and like needs a
bunch of elbow touches all the time like that, that
feels like a real like impasse potentially. So that was
the other thing I thought, just while enjoying it all,
was Oh, I don't know if like, can you kind
of do both of these? Can you be both of
these things? That's that's a good problem, because it would
be you prefer it to Edgecomb doesn't look ready or
that athleticism is not going to translate on either end.
It's just he's not a basketball player. Like if that,
if that's what we were talking about, that would be
a bigger issue. But I did kind of fixate on
the fit stuff. I think it's just really exciting because
I don't know, maybe also in contrast to the m
beat stuff, where it's like it's disheartening to watch him
move like he moves and play like he's playing, and
then you can see Edgecomb just like explode all over
the floor. And just be aggressive. Like you said, it's
a nice like little chaser for the helps the medicine
go down a little smoother. Uh, really fun, Like I
I think there it's so Flag like Flag is gonna
get his numbers, and it'd be a massive upset if
anybody else pushed him for Rookie of the Year. But
if Edgecumb's gonna have this kind of role and he's
gonna get to shoot this much and he's gonna get
to like just do the whole explore the space kind
of thing this much, doesn't he have to at least
be like your clear number two now, like moving Harper
out of the picture and Ace Baliens we haven't seen,
by the way, but you know, I think he moves
to number two at minimum, right, just based on this.
How many other guys are gonna score thirty plus in
the rookie season this year? Probably not many, No, look
Vj's Complainey's an average thirty plus for the sixers, right.
I like what I really like about him, And I
don't know if he definitely has the feel for how
to toggle between the two existences, but like he can
work as someone who's trying to look for his own
offense or just work as Oh, I'm gonna play off
everyone else and within the flow of the game, get
out in transition, cut shoot threes off the catch. Like
I mentioned before, I just I curious as to what
his role is going to be once Paul George comes
back on the offensive end.
Speaker 1: Is the bigger deal to me? And then you mentioned
it before with Jawon and Bed coming in and out
of the lineup, we have the Quinton Grimes situation here
too as well.
Speaker 2: Kane. I mean, you're gonna have McCain's gonna need to play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't expect that he's gonna have these
gaudy numbers all year. And if he does, does it
bring into question of well, where are the Sixers in
the Eastern Conference? Because I don't know if okay, they
pulled out the victory against Boston, But if if VJ.
Edgecomb is your second best offense players, it's good and
it's also kind of, oh where do we sit in
the standings? I don't know if that's bad, but that
would bring about an existential question.
Speaker 2: It is like we do need to acknowledge like if
he's this best or second best rookie, this year, chances
are he's like maybe a break even player just because
of what happens, Like what rookies do you know? So yeah,
if he's in a massive role all season, that would
be an interesting like thought exercise. We flash forward to
April VJ. Edgecomb has played twenty five hundred minutes and
average twenty two points a game. Where are the Sixers
in the East standings? It'd be like either second or twelfth.
I don't know, it's hard to maybe you know what
we've been wrong all along. Joel Embiid is not the
barometer for the Sixers.
Speaker 1: It's Edgecomb it might be. And the other thing, I'll
just second it's not quite at the level of their
different body types. But the en ball speed from him
is just sort of sneaky. And I know there was
the one plan I thing it was Xavier Tillman. So
it's Exavier Tillman bringing the ball up and semi transition
and just blows right through the gap to his right
and just like thunder dunks the boomstick. I can't I
liked him coming out of school. I don't remember where
he ended up on my big board. But this is
just if he's playing like this doesn't if you're like,
what does that even do to your future? It makes
it better and more complicated at the same time because
of who's also on this roster. I don't even if
this was really a question of saying VJ. Edgecomb has
the best chance of challenging Cooper Flag for Rookie of
the Year? Are you? Because the first one's an overreaction?
Is the second one also an overreaction?
Speaker 2: I really still like Dylan Harper, even though he had
some real hits and misses in his opener, and Bailey
who knows? But I I mean, certainly right now, Edgecomb
has shown production and the other guys have been like, well,
speculatively they might be pretty good. So I don't think
it's an overreaction if you, based on that game said
oh this guy he's number two, I don't think that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Man. That does it for us? Grant, But how did
you feel about our first Annual Takes draft?
Speaker 2: I feel like we tied. Actually I feel like I
won because I because you weren't gonna take the reed
Shepherd square and I did it and it was the
right choice, and so I correctly gained the draft. They
didn't have to waste an early pick on it to
get it to get it in there. So it felt
pretty strongly about it because we were competing. I don't
know if you knew that we were. There was only
one winner.
Speaker 1: I think I win because I waited until pick number
nine or was it ten? Where did I pick the
knicks that was at number Great restraint by you, the
great restraint by me. So I feel like I win.
What do you think was the What was I going
to pick with the final pick? Because it wasn't j Edgecomb.
Speaker 2: I think you were gonna go ooh, I bet you
were gonna go Cam Johnson was as Cam Johnson trade
was a mistake.
Speaker 1: I thought. I thought that was the middle ground. I
was gonna go with what would have been on brand
for this podcast and say, the Utah Jazz are not
going to be the worst team in the Western Conference.
They look fun, the fun. Will Hardy is so getting
fired for making them too good.
Speaker 2: That guy can't do anything wrong. That's that's the problem. Yeah,
that was That was That was the most shocking of
the full slate of opening night games results. In first quarters,
by the way, it was like forty three to nineteen.
Jazz were up on the Clippers.
Speaker 1: Or halftime score, which, because I wasn't watching it live,
I saw the halftime score and was thinking, holy crap,
what is going on in that game? And you dig
into it and it's oh my god. First of all,
Walker Kessler, it's good he didn't get an extension. He
might just get a max contract out this descript Do
you have anything else or are you ready to take
us out of here?
Speaker 2: Nope, that'll do it. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching,
and remember please rate, review, subscribe, give us the thumbs
up on YouTube. You can give us hype points as
Dan mentioned, leave some comments there as well. Which of
these are not overreactions other than the rest?
Speaker 1: You know you're overreactions? Yeah, here everyone else is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the time to do it, because pretty
soon they'll just have to be takes and they don't
get to be called over reactions. You don't get that
level of cover.
Speaker 1: Cant takes though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think those you're allowed to hot takes are
good anytime. I don't think there's a there's really like
a part of the season. We can't all for those
what else or over unders are closed cheaters? If you're
trying to enter one. Now it's too late because we
already know some results. We'll keep tabs on that all season,
and uh yeah, I think that's gonna do it. Tell
your friend Chillier. Aneman shouts Frank Milton and apologies with
Jared