WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.850 --> 00:00:04.230 Live from the heart of the nation's capital, this is 2 00:00:04.290 --> 00:00:07.030 a Jim Acosta Show special report. 3 00:00:07.269 --> 00:00:12.210 Hey everybody, welcome to the Jim Acosta Show. It's another 4 00:00:12.250 --> 00:00:14.730 day that ends in Y in Donald Trump's assault on 5 00:00:14.769 --> 00:00:17.730 American democracy. And I've got the perfect guest to talk 6 00:00:17.769 --> 00:00:22.000 about this. It is Mark Elias of Democracy Docket. Mark, 7 00:00:22.109 --> 00:00:24.539 a lot of news in your wheelhouse all week long. 8 00:00:24.550 --> 00:00:28.399 And today in particular, that's why we were dying to 9 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:29.519 get you on. Thanks for coming on. 10 00:00:30.250 --> 00:00:31.870 Jim, I always love being on with you. 11 00:00:32.390 --> 00:00:35.869 Really appreciate it. And, you know, the thing that really 12 00:00:36.409 --> 00:00:39.649 got this week off to kind of a scary start 13 00:00:39.729 --> 00:00:42.789 from a democracy standpoint is the Supreme Court. I mean, 14 00:00:42.810 --> 00:00:46.429 this is just me making this observation, allowing this mail-in 15 00:00:46.509 --> 00:00:49.979 ballot insanity to go forward. And now it's gotten to 16 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:52.460 the point where the U.S. Postal Service has now said 17 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.140 that the rule is in effect, that what states have 18 00:00:56.219 --> 00:01:02.310 to deliver to them, they're their registration information and so on, 19 00:01:02.329 --> 00:01:06.290 their mail-in balloting information. And then this is, you know, 20 00:01:06.530 --> 00:01:08.829 they're supposed to submit their voter rolls for inspection as 21 00:01:08.870 --> 00:01:11.719 part of a broader bid. This is according to the 22 00:01:11.750 --> 00:01:15.719 Guardian to protect election integrity and so on. I mean, 23 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:20.180 it's all designed, it seems to me, to stop people 24 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:24.099 from using mail-in ballots, something that Donald Trump has done himself. 25 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:26.530 But your thoughts on how this week has been shaping up? 26 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:29.560 Yeah, first of all, let's start with the last point 27 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.459 you made. which is Donald Trump has been waging a 28 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:36.760 war nonstop on mail-in voting. I mean, Jim, going back 29 00:01:36.969 --> 00:01:39.650 to when you and I were talking about this when 30 00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:44.890 you were on CNN in 2020, he was railing about 31 00:01:44.989 --> 00:01:47.950 mail-in voting. And he has been trying to figure out 32 00:01:47.989 --> 00:01:50.290 a way to make it harder for people to vote 33 00:01:50.310 --> 00:01:53.019 by mail, while, as you point out, at the same time, 34 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.620 himself actually voting by mail. So this is, in some sense, 35 00:01:57.209 --> 00:02:00.890 We are coming to the head of a fight that 36 00:02:00.930 --> 00:02:04.269 has been going on now for, you know, for years. 37 00:02:05.030 --> 00:02:10.780 And what his latest gambit was, was an executive order 38 00:02:10.939 --> 00:02:14.139 that directed the U.S. Postal Service to essentially become a 39 00:02:14.259 --> 00:02:18.520 tool in this voter suppression effort. Essentially, the Postal Service 40 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:22.560 would refuse to deliver mail-in ballots to anyone who is 41 00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:25.689 not on an approved list that is submitted in advance. 42 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.969 to the postal service and that to enforce this, there 43 00:02:29.009 --> 00:02:33.689 would be certain ballot design, uh, envelope designs and barcode 44 00:02:33.729 --> 00:02:37.849 scans and, and other stuff. And this was challenged in 45 00:02:37.909 --> 00:02:41.319 court in a series of lawsuits. We filed one in Washington, 46 00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:45.360 DC on behalf of the democratic party. Uh, Norm Eisen 47 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:48.099 filed one in Washington, DC on behalf of a group 48 00:02:48.139 --> 00:02:55.319 of nonprofit organizations. Um, and ultimately, um, uh, the states, 49 00:02:55.539 --> 00:02:59.750 this Democratic state attorney general filed one in Massachusetts. And 50 00:02:59.789 --> 00:03:04.430 that case proceeded to the Supreme Court on a rapid basis. 51 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.069 They won. And the Supreme Court said, look, you all 52 00:03:07.229 --> 00:03:11.169 sued before there was even a final rule, before the 53 00:03:11.210 --> 00:03:14.949 Postal Service had issued their rules to comply with this 54 00:03:14.990 --> 00:03:17.250 executive order. So it was too soon. The claims were 55 00:03:17.289 --> 00:03:20.169 not ripe, is the legal term. So the case went 56 00:03:20.210 --> 00:03:22.969 back down. Well, as we speak, as we are talking, 57 00:03:23.090 --> 00:03:26.530 you and I right now, There are renewed motions by 58 00:03:26.539 --> 00:03:29.830 me and my law firm on behalf of the Democratic Party, 59 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:32.889 Norm Eisen on behalf of the nonprofits in D.C., the 60 00:03:32.930 --> 00:03:37.590 states in Massachusetts, and another group of nonprofits in Massachusetts. 61 00:03:37.969 --> 00:03:39.889 And all of those cases are now going to move 62 00:03:39.969 --> 00:03:43.650 on an expedited basis. And we should assume that once again, 63 00:03:44.129 --> 00:03:45.810 one way or the other, these will wind up in 64 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:46.349 the Supreme Court. 65 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:47.120 Yeah. 66 00:03:47.129 --> 00:03:50.080 And the other thing we should note, and the Supreme Court, 67 00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:51.599 I guess, now will have to deal with the merits 68 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.750 of the case. I guess earlier they were able to say, Well, 69 00:03:54.810 --> 00:03:57.849 because of a technicality, we're going to wait for the 70 00:03:57.930 --> 00:04:00.460 Postal Service to have a final rule on this and 71 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:02.580 release that rule and so on, which to me, I 72 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:06.099 don't understand why the Supreme Court says, Donald Trump, you 73 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:09.840 don't have any business being involved in elections in this country. 74 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:12.319 The Postal Service doesn't have any business being involved in 75 00:04:12.340 --> 00:04:15.150 elections in this country. That's up to the states. And 76 00:04:15.189 --> 00:04:16.949 if Congress wants to change rules and so on, they 77 00:04:16.970 --> 00:04:20.009 could try to pass a law. But I don't understand 78 00:04:20.050 --> 00:04:22.290 why the Supreme Court did what it did from that standpoint. 79 00:04:22.310 --> 00:04:23.529 I understand it's a technicality. 80 00:04:23.990 --> 00:04:28.050 It was even more bizarre, if I can use that word, Jim, 81 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:32.680 because they issued that ruling on Monday, as you pointed 82 00:04:32.740 --> 00:04:36.740 out earlier this week. Last Friday night, the Postal Service 83 00:04:36.779 --> 00:04:42.680 finalized the rule. So honestly, it appears that the justices 84 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:45.990 who have had this case now before them for the 85 00:04:46.019 --> 00:04:49.110 last few weeks, you can imagine what happened. They're all 86 00:04:49.209 --> 00:04:52.310 scattered around the world giving speeches and the like. They 87 00:04:52.350 --> 00:04:55.740 had been negotiating among themselves on the opinions. They had 88 00:04:55.769 --> 00:04:58.120 probably come to a conclusion on what the opinion would 89 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:01.399 say on Friday. I'm guessing that. Then on Friday night, 90 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.930 the Postal Service finalized the regulations. And you can just 91 00:05:04.019 --> 00:05:06.629 imagine the justices being like, all right, we're not going 92 00:05:06.670 --> 00:05:09.920 back to start over again. Just issue the ruling we have. 93 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:13.939 So what's even more sort of senseless about this, in 94 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:17.759 a sense, Jim, is that the moment they issued that ruling, 95 00:05:17.899 --> 00:05:22.040 everybody filed the new lawsuits because the Postal Service had, 96 00:05:22.250 --> 00:05:24.529 in fact, finalized the rule last Friday. 97 00:05:24.949 --> 00:05:29.949 Wow. And I guess Trump was asked about this earlier today. 98 00:05:30.550 --> 00:05:33.949 PBS asked Trump about it. Thank goodness somebody asked about it. 99 00:05:34.189 --> 00:05:35.269 Let's play what he had to say. 100 00:05:36.550 --> 00:05:40.990 The Supreme Court earlier this week ruled on mail-in ballots. 101 00:05:41.069 --> 00:05:43.889 And there are states like North Carolina that have ballots 102 00:05:43.930 --> 00:05:45.310 that go out next week. 103 00:05:45.509 --> 00:05:47.610 How are states supposed to implement this? 104 00:05:47.889 --> 00:05:51.930 Well, they're able to. North Carolina is great. It's a 105 00:05:52.050 --> 00:05:54.949 great place. I won a goal three times. They do 106 00:05:55.009 --> 00:05:58.870 some mail-in ballots. But basically, they ruled on the legitimacy 107 00:05:59.629 --> 00:06:01.709 and the way we want to make them legitimate. 108 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.560 And it was a great ruling for the Republicans. 109 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.899 Yeah. Mark, he says it was a great rule for 110 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:11.230 the Republican Party. He says the quiet part out loud, 111 00:06:11.269 --> 00:06:13.029 or as I like to say, the riot part out loud. 112 00:06:13.069 --> 00:06:13.470 But anyway. 113 00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:15.889 The golf part? 114 00:06:17.769 --> 00:06:19.509 It sounded like golf, but I think he said, I 115 00:06:20.410 --> 00:06:24.209 think we won it all three times. I know, I 116 00:06:24.269 --> 00:06:26.220 saw the golf thing and I was like, what was that? Yeah, 117 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:27.939 I'm not sure he said that, but yeah. 118 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.220 I do also have to give you a huge compliment, Jim. 119 00:06:30.459 --> 00:06:34.290 The difference between you and everybody else, The fact that 120 00:06:34.329 --> 00:06:37.230 you know these reporters, the fact that you know that 121 00:06:37.269 --> 00:06:39.250 that was the PBS reporter, pretty good. 122 00:06:39.610 --> 00:06:41.009 I had a hunch. I had a hunch. 123 00:06:41.029 --> 00:06:43.350 She's a good reporter. 124 00:06:43.370 --> 00:06:50.759 Yes, excellent reporter. So look, Donald Trump only cares about 125 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:56.079 holding power. Donald Trump doesn't care about free and fair elections. 126 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:59.839 He doesn't care about voting. He cares about holding power. 127 00:07:00.459 --> 00:07:02.600 And he knows that one of the ways in which 128 00:07:02.660 --> 00:07:07.019 he will hold power is by making it harder for 129 00:07:07.079 --> 00:07:10.500 Democrats to vote. And right now, as the product of 130 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.879 all these years of many lies, Democrats vote more by 131 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.170 mail than Republicans because Republicans who used to vote more 132 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:19.230 by mail now have shied away from it because Donald 133 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:22.050 Trump keeps lying to them. So, you know, when he 134 00:07:22.110 --> 00:07:25.410 says at the end that this will help Republicans, that's 135 00:07:25.509 --> 00:07:26.350 all he cares about. 136 00:07:27.029 --> 00:07:27.250 Yeah. 137 00:07:27.589 --> 00:07:30.790 And he mentions North Carolina. You know, Liz Landers of 138 00:07:30.810 --> 00:07:33.800 PBS asked him about North Carolina. And I mean, that's 139 00:07:33.819 --> 00:07:36.160 another critical part of this that I hope the Supreme 140 00:07:36.199 --> 00:07:38.519 Court deals with, although I don't have much faith in 141 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.420 them anymore, that we are now in the cycle. We 142 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:43.560 are now very much in the in the moment where 143 00:07:43.579 --> 00:07:47.560 people are going to start voting very soon. And this 144 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:51.079 could just throw like a massive monkey wrench into the 145 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.750 whole process. And I just keep coming back to this. 146 00:07:54.870 --> 00:07:56.629 I've said this on my show. I think part of 147 00:07:56.709 --> 00:07:59.970 what they're doing, this is chaos by design. They want 148 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:03.519 a 52 car pile up on the democracy interstate. And 149 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:05.649 so they can say, well, you know, this thing is 150 00:08:05.689 --> 00:08:07.769 such a huge mess. We just have to stay in 151 00:08:07.829 --> 00:08:10.490 charge up on Capitol Hill. You know, maybe we'll sort 152 00:08:10.529 --> 00:08:12.790 it out by spring or summer of twenty twenty seven. 153 00:08:13.290 --> 00:08:15.670 I just you know, I wonder if that is is 154 00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:18.449 what's going on in their heads. In North Carolina, for example, 155 00:08:19.350 --> 00:08:21.769 that is where Roy Cooper is running for the Senate 156 00:08:22.189 --> 00:08:24.829 and in his favor to win that race and flip 157 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:27.459 a seat. And so it just to me, this is like, 158 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:29.720 come on, guys, this is obvious what's going on here. 159 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:31.759 Yeah, I think it's a really smart point. And I 160 00:08:31.779 --> 00:08:35.049 hope it's one that people. listen to and internalize that, 161 00:08:35.370 --> 00:08:37.690 you know, there are kind of two separate things going 162 00:08:37.830 --> 00:08:39.840 on and you have to understand that they're both real. 163 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:43.600 On the one hand, Donald Trump is in fact trying 164 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:49.179 to put in place rules that will prevent more Democrats 165 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.200 from voting than Republicans, right? That'll make it harder to 166 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.480 vote and will gain partisan advantage. That is true. It 167 00:08:55.580 --> 00:08:58.799 is also true, okay, separately from that, it is also 168 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:02.340 true that Donald Trump wants to create a permission structure 169 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.299 to say the elections were a mess because the rule 170 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:09.779 that we implemented too late for any state to actually 171 00:09:09.899 --> 00:09:14.009 implement correctly is proof that there was fraud, right? So like, 172 00:09:14.350 --> 00:09:17.690 as you say, he is both hoping to win the 173 00:09:17.730 --> 00:09:21.470 race and hoping that there's a car pileup because either 174 00:09:21.529 --> 00:09:25.450 way he is able to use that to try to 175 00:09:25.470 --> 00:09:29.750 hold power, either because it actually expresses votes and or 176 00:09:30.429 --> 00:09:33.899 creates a circumstance where he can say, look, The law 177 00:09:33.950 --> 00:09:37.169 wasn't followed. The states weren't organized. This must all have 178 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:37.690 been fraud. 179 00:09:38.289 --> 00:09:42.029 Yeah. And to this day, it's never been established that 180 00:09:42.049 --> 00:09:46.730 there's ever been widespread voter fraud using mail-in ballots. I'm 181 00:09:46.789 --> 00:09:47.649 correct in saying that. 182 00:09:47.750 --> 00:09:49.570 I mean, if I missed that headline- You could say 183 00:09:49.590 --> 00:09:50.960 mail-in ballots or not mail-in ballots. 184 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:51.519 Any ballots. 185 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:53.690 The United States has got a lot of problems. We've 186 00:09:53.710 --> 00:09:58.940 got inflation problems. We've got a president who is threatening Canada. 187 00:09:59.940 --> 00:10:02.440 We've got no shortage of problems. If you were to 188 00:10:02.539 --> 00:10:06.860 list the top 1,000 problems facing this country, voter fraud 189 00:10:06.899 --> 00:10:09.279 would not be on that list. The fact that Donald 190 00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:12.059 Trump has chosen voter fraud as the thing he is 191 00:10:12.259 --> 00:10:15.450 focused on explains to you why gasoline is so expensive. 192 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:16.299 Right. 193 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.740 Explains to you why the war in Iran is going 194 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.210 the way it is. Explains to you why Donald Trump's 195 00:10:22.250 --> 00:10:24.450 popularity is, I don't know what, in the 30s now. 196 00:10:24.909 --> 00:10:28.250 You know, like because because he is focused on something 197 00:10:28.750 --> 00:10:31.830 that is not a problem at all in order to 198 00:10:31.970 --> 00:10:35.600 create an environment in which he can falsely claim that 199 00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:36.440 the election was stolen. 200 00:10:37.460 --> 00:10:39.940 Yeah. And the other thing too is, is that, and 201 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:41.980 this doesn't get talked about anymore because everything goes in 202 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:44.159 one ear and out the other and this fire hose 203 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:46.799 of insanity that we're dealing with in the second go round. 204 00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:50.759 He had that prime time address. What was it last month? 205 00:10:51.220 --> 00:10:56.019 It feels like 10 years ago. And he said that 206 00:10:56.059 --> 00:11:00.019 they had found more than 250,000 non-citizens were on the 207 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:03.889 voter rolls of Nevada and just three other States. And, and, 208 00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:06.610 I'm looking at, this is a story that just came 209 00:11:06.710 --> 00:11:09.169 out this afternoon, a call with Nevada state election officials 210 00:11:09.210 --> 00:11:12.559 earlier this month, the Trump administration, point person on non-citizen voting, 211 00:11:12.580 --> 00:11:18.240 I guess acknowledged that those numbers were not correct. And 212 00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:22.299 I'm just, you know, I don't understand how we're supposed 213 00:11:22.340 --> 00:11:25.600 to trust these guys when it comes to this stuff. 214 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:29.700 You know, they just lie through their teeth. And I 215 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:34.070 don't understand why the Supreme Court is even you know, 216 00:11:34.450 --> 00:11:37.750 allowing this kind of, this conversation to go forward. That 217 00:11:37.769 --> 00:11:42.409 was a PBS NPR story, by the way. DHS acknowledges 218 00:11:42.429 --> 00:11:46.830 the non-citizen numbers it touted on voter rolls were inflated. Yeah. 219 00:11:47.590 --> 00:11:51.960 So look, I think that, I think that the hard 220 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:57.899 thing for people to sometimes understand is that Donald Trump 221 00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:58.659 lies about everything. 222 00:11:59.000 --> 00:11:59.940 Right, yeah. 223 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.019 And, you know, I watch, I watch, I watch you 224 00:12:04.830 --> 00:12:10.799 And you did some amazing reporting about the process by 225 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:16.240 which we went from the reflecting pool was perfectly fixed. 226 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:21.350 And there was widespread vandalism to we have arrested an 227 00:12:21.409 --> 00:12:27.110 individual who is guilty and indicted of felonies to await trial. 228 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:31.860 All of that was not true. And there was faulty installation. 229 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:35.269 And you did amazing original reporting on that. And in 230 00:12:35.330 --> 00:12:38.110 some ways, I wish, Jim, you could bottle that up 231 00:12:38.289 --> 00:12:42.970 and just like insert here, voting, insert here, inflation, insert here, 232 00:12:43.009 --> 00:12:46.559 the warmer air. Like you did a really great job 233 00:12:46.659 --> 00:12:51.179 of showing that progression, but that's the nature of everything 234 00:12:51.259 --> 00:12:51.639 that this. 235 00:12:51.580 --> 00:12:55.610 White house is. Yeah, no, it's so true. And I mean, 236 00:12:55.970 --> 00:12:59.169 and on your front also, I guess, is the counting 237 00:12:59.210 --> 00:13:02.049 of the votes, the counting of the ballots, how that's 238 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.019 going to play out. There have been lots of stories 239 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.100 in the press recently where election workers obviously are going 240 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:10.379 to have to be. We saw this last time around 241 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:14.179 where election workers were being threatened. Election workers were sort 242 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.350 of they were under siege. Mark, what is being done 243 00:13:17.379 --> 00:13:20.750 to make sure that the sanctity of counting the ballots 244 00:13:21.009 --> 00:13:22.809 is going to be protected this time around? I mean, 245 00:13:22.830 --> 00:13:26.100 I saw something the other day. where, and this, I guess, 246 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:29.899 may be more applicable to the voting that happens on 247 00:13:29.940 --> 00:13:33.279 election day. The candidate, the Republican candidate for governor of 248 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.210 Maine has said he wants to see ICE. Are they 249 00:13:36.230 --> 00:13:38.789 going to try to have ICE and National Guard troops 250 00:13:38.870 --> 00:13:41.990 at voting election counting places too? I mean, it's just, 251 00:13:42.830 --> 00:13:43.509 when does it end? 252 00:13:44.570 --> 00:13:47.250 Yeah. And look, it's not just Maine. I mean, democracy 253 00:13:47.470 --> 00:13:50.360 just went up with a story about various Republican counties 254 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.450 who have now called for this. I mean, Before we 255 00:13:52.470 --> 00:13:54.950 get to election day, my prediction is this will become 256 00:13:55.490 --> 00:13:58.649 sort of a standard talking point of Republican candidates. Donald 257 00:13:58.669 --> 00:14:01.809 Trump will force them to all say that there should 258 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:05.289 be federal law enforcement at the polls. You know the 259 00:14:05.330 --> 00:14:09.740 way this Republican Party works. There's no line under which 260 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:12.580 they won't fall, right? There's no bottom. There's no line 261 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.600 they won't cross. And so you're right. We have to 262 00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:18.279 worry about this from a few different perspectives. First, to 263 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.649 what extent is that going to impact actual election day voting. Now, look, 264 00:14:22.789 --> 00:14:25.110 I think that Donald Trump can try to do a 265 00:14:25.149 --> 00:14:27.889 lot of things. As a practical matter, it is very 266 00:14:27.980 --> 00:14:31.740 difficult given how many polling locations there are in so 267 00:14:31.779 --> 00:14:35.240 many places simultaneously. I think that they can do some 268 00:14:35.299 --> 00:14:37.460 symbolic things. I think they can do some real damage 269 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:40.779 in particular Democratic strongholds. So I'm not minimizing that. And 270 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.320 the lawyers like me and others will be ready to 271 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:45.539 take that on if and when it happens. But I 272 00:14:45.580 --> 00:14:49.110 think when you get to the post-election, Now those ballots 273 00:14:49.149 --> 00:14:53.909 are no longer in those precincts. Now they're centrally located, right? 274 00:14:53.929 --> 00:14:57.159 Now they're in county offices. And now you start to 275 00:14:57.220 --> 00:14:59.820 talk about a whole other set of risks. Are you 276 00:14:59.860 --> 00:15:02.480 going to see efforts to seize ballots? Are you going 277 00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:04.080 to see, which we saw in 2020 when I was, 278 00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:07.440 you know, the post-election, I was representing President Biden, then 279 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:10.559 candidate Biden. You know, we saw Republicans, you know, banging 280 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:12.970 on the walls, banging on the windows. They're going to be, 281 00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:18.970 you know, we assume that, that law enforcement will protect 282 00:15:19.110 --> 00:15:23.850 these election officials. But are you 100% confident that federal 283 00:15:23.889 --> 00:15:26.570 law enforcement or even in some of these states with 284 00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:30.700 Republican AGs and Republican governors, are you confident that Republicans 285 00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:36.259 will be protecting those officials? Or will they be creating 286 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:40.350 an environment that, again, creates that permission structure for Trump 287 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:43.539 to say, look, There's widespread disorder. There is there is 288 00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:46.070 a threat to these ballots. And so we need the 289 00:15:46.110 --> 00:15:48.149 federal government to take control. 290 00:15:48.169 --> 00:15:48.250 Yeah. 291 00:15:49.830 --> 00:15:53.789 And how let's talk about Democracy Docket, because it's really 292 00:15:53.850 --> 00:15:57.049 taking off and people need to understand if you're not 293 00:15:57.190 --> 00:15:59.409 looking at if you're not reading Democracy Docket every day, 294 00:15:59.450 --> 00:16:01.509 you're doing it wrong. If you care about democracy in 295 00:16:01.529 --> 00:16:04.039 this country, you care about elections in this country. Mark, 296 00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:06.100 did you ever dream that it would grow to the 297 00:16:06.259 --> 00:16:09.419 to the place where it is right now? I mean, 298 00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:13.429 it's it's become a must read for everybody that, you know, 299 00:16:13.490 --> 00:16:16.190 this is this is a source of an invaluable source 300 00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:18.450 that we can all turn to to learn about the 301 00:16:18.490 --> 00:16:20.210 twists and turns of are we going to get to 302 00:16:20.730 --> 00:16:22.289 are we going to get to the to the end 303 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:24.500 of all of this with our democracy intact? 304 00:16:25.179 --> 00:16:27.700 No, I didn't. I mean, I started Democracy Docket in 305 00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:31.639 2020 because I saw a need to fill to help 306 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:36.000 people understand and contextualize what is happening to democracy in courts. 307 00:16:36.590 --> 00:16:39.149 And I thought we could fill that niche and add 308 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:42.919 to the ecosystem. What we saw after that, which you 309 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.720 saw from a front row scene and from which you 310 00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:48.620 are one of the great heroes that has emerged, is 311 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.340 an absolute capitulation of legacy media. I mean, I don't 312 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:54.179 want to put too fine a point on it, but 313 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:57.850 if CNN was still the CNN that had Jim Acosta 314 00:16:58.309 --> 00:17:02.340 front and center... on these democracy issues the way it was, 315 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.119 outlets like Democracy Docket, there wouldn't be the demand for it, right? 316 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.269 Like there wouldn't be the demand for the Jim Acosta show. 317 00:17:09.690 --> 00:17:13.509 But what's happened is as legacy media has bent a knee, 318 00:17:13.730 --> 00:17:16.309 there has become this increased demand. So Democracy Docket just 319 00:17:16.329 --> 00:17:20.589 crossed 70,000 premium members. We have 500,000 free subscribers. We 320 00:17:20.630 --> 00:17:24.220 have a website that's visited by millions. And I'm glad 321 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.960 that we are filling this need. But Jim, I'm sure 322 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:30.390 there is also a part of you that wishes- that 323 00:17:30.470 --> 00:17:35.380 we saw the courage of the traditional legacy media that 324 00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:36.279 we are not seeing right now. 325 00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:38.799 You know, there are glimpses of it here and there, 326 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:40.619 and I think it's starting to come back a little bit. 327 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:44.039 I think ABC taking the administration to court or the 328 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.599 hijinks over at the FCC, I think that is a 329 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.829 really welcome sign, but it's not sustained. It's not every day. 330 00:17:50.230 --> 00:17:53.450 You know, when I was at CNN, I was sort 331 00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:56.809 of unleashed and allowed to report that way. without being 332 00:17:56.849 --> 00:17:59.690 worried about, you know, them calling the bureau or the 333 00:17:59.769 --> 00:18:02.509 offices of the executives and saying, hey, what's this Acosta guy? 334 00:18:02.549 --> 00:18:05.539 Why is he asking so many damn questions? And, you know, 335 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:08.079 eventually that pressure came to bear. And I now I 336 00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:12.380 do this here. But I mean, Mark, I'm right there 337 00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:15.039 with you. This is a moment where we need our 338 00:18:15.099 --> 00:18:18.799 national press to really they've got to find their backbones, 339 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.119 because I think these next couple of months are these 340 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:23.990 next three months or so are going to be crucial 341 00:18:24.630 --> 00:18:27.089 to the future of this country. and whether we can 342 00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:32.450 get through this midterm process with our system in check 343 00:18:33.029 --> 00:18:37.309 and intact. I think it's a jump ball. I think 344 00:18:37.329 --> 00:18:39.670 it's a live question as to whether we get through this. 345 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.420 I agree with you. I keep saying this to folks. 346 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.240 The question is not whether we're going to have elections. 347 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.539 We're going to have elections. Donald Trump can't cancel elections. 348 00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:51.579 The question of whether or not they are free and 349 00:18:51.619 --> 00:18:54.920 fair is a trickier question because there's no one guidepost 350 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.190 that says, you know, if you cross this line, then 351 00:18:57.230 --> 00:18:58.730 it's free and fair. And if you don't, it's not. 352 00:18:58.809 --> 00:19:01.269 It's a, it is a, it is a, it is a, 353 00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:03.539 it is a sliding scale and it is easy to 354 00:19:03.579 --> 00:19:08.559 become desensitized to something that, that you shouldn't become desensitized to. And, 355 00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:11.440 and the media plays an essential role in a democracy. 356 00:19:11.619 --> 00:19:14.980 Like it is essential that you have an independent media 357 00:19:15.019 --> 00:19:17.339 that is, that is serving as a watchdog, but it too, 358 00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:20.849 there's not one point at which you say, okay, it is, 359 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.880 no longer doing that function. It's a sliding scale. And you, again, 360 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.539 become desensitized to it. And that is the great tragedy 361 00:19:28.579 --> 00:19:30.609 of this era. The great tragedy of this era is 362 00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:33.750 not that we have the likes of Donald Trump. The 363 00:19:33.789 --> 00:19:36.490 great tragedy of this era is that those with the power, 364 00:19:36.609 --> 00:19:41.470 those in the large corporate media organizations, those who could 365 00:19:41.529 --> 00:19:43.950 be standing up in the Republican Party and saying that 366 00:19:43.990 --> 00:19:47.589 what Donald Trump is wrong, they are staying silent. And 367 00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:49.670 it is being left to people like you, people like 368 00:19:49.710 --> 00:19:51.799 the voters, people like the election officials we talked about, 369 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:56.309 people like Democracy Docket to carry this load that frankly, 370 00:19:56.349 --> 00:19:57.230 they shouldn't have to. 371 00:19:58.190 --> 00:20:02.849 That's right. No, and it's high time that we see 372 00:20:02.890 --> 00:20:06.089 some backbone from all of these institutions that have really 373 00:20:06.130 --> 00:20:07.819 failed us over the last couple of years. But Mark, 374 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:12.279 You have not. Democracy Docket has been there. And it's 375 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:14.339 always great having you on. Really appreciate it, Mark. Thanks 376 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.319 for drilling down on this issue with us. Yeah, good 377 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:20.299 to see you. Thanks, Mark. Thank you so much. And, 378 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:21.740 you know, one of the key issues that people are 379 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.619 going to be voting on this fall is the economy, which, 380 00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:28.349 you know, Trump is acting as though he is eventually 381 00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:31.049 going to be right on this tariff issue that going 382 00:20:31.109 --> 00:20:34.890 after American allies like Canada, which is basically our best 383 00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:37.710 friend in the entire world. that somehow that economically speaking, 384 00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:39.309 that that's going to work out for everybody. And then 385 00:20:39.490 --> 00:20:41.200 politically speaking, that that's going to work out for him. 386 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.259 That has not been the case, but I have a 387 00:20:43.299 --> 00:20:47.420 great guest to talk about this. Justin Wolfer's economist, University 388 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.160 of Michigan of Platypus Economics. Justin, great to see you 389 00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:52.740 as always. I'm so glad we're getting a chance to 390 00:20:52.779 --> 00:20:53.200 catch up. 391 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.150 Jim, great to see you. And oh my word, it's 392 00:20:56.170 --> 00:20:58.430 the Jim Acosta show going from strength to strength. 393 00:21:00.349 --> 00:21:03.029 It is extra strength these days. We're bringing it, man. 394 00:21:03.069 --> 00:21:06.240 This is a critical time in this country. So We 395 00:21:06.289 --> 00:21:08.670 got all the bells and whistles, but Justin, it's great 396 00:21:08.710 --> 00:21:13.109 to see you. And I keep waking up and thinking 397 00:21:13.150 --> 00:21:15.170 to myself, no, we really aren't in a trade war 398 00:21:15.210 --> 00:21:18.759 with Canada, are we? Where, you know, I mean, this 399 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.619 just doesn't make any sense. And we've got, was it 400 00:21:22.700 --> 00:21:25.579 Doug Ford telling Trump to kiss my ass? And I 401 00:21:30.769 --> 00:21:32.049