Speaker 1: What is up, fellasiko as I am Dana Valley coming
at you with the one, the only, the officially certified fantabulous.
He's getting that stamp of approval now that he has
helped us out with so much content over the past
few weeks. Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, Fame of
Yahoo Sports, Fame, of Forbes Fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity,
We are here for the NBA Finals wrap up slash
doubling up with the offseason look ahead portion of that
wrap up before we dive in, Mort, how the heck
are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I'm tired. That was a very long night.
I'm glad, like I love the Finals, very very entertained,
glad that the season is over so I can just
kind of simmer down, go into offseason mode because that
is just a couple of weeks and then I'm off.
I can I can take a breather, I can refuel
for next year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So hopefully I'm really hoping to catch a beat,
like by the end of July, maybe it'll slow down
a little bit, but like the draft and free agency
is going to be a whirlwind, and we've got plenty
of content to pump out as everybody seeing, which if
you have not already subscribe, rate review, help us out
over here. We put out a lot of content the
past two months during the postseason slash into the offseason
mo so we appreciate all the support commenters, You've been
awesome and stuff conversing with you guys. Join our discord
the links in the podcast and YouTube description if you
want to talk more hoops. But yeah, if you haven't
subscribed already, do that post taste the Oklahoma City Thunder
NBA champions more it happens. Average roster age of basically
twenty five and a half, which is insane. And I
think it's just impressive on two fronts. Because we say
this sometimes, but now more than ever, you have to
couch it by acknowledging. Oh, things change fast in the NBA.
It's not always for the better. But I don't think
that I have ever seen a team that is better
set up to continue running the tables for the foreseeable
future and having to make the additions and any substractions
that they need to. There'll be tough decisions, but the
payroll structures there. But before kind of digging into their
actual offseason, Just what are your kind of thoughts about
the thunder because this is the second part of that
ending up here when it feels like fewer than three
years ago, wasn't there an outcry of like, oh, how
could they do this to Shay? Like be this bad?
When they were rebuilding and the turnaround was what a
year and the title turnaround was like fewer than three.
Speaker 2: I remember recording with our mutual buddy Brian's Porik about
this team approximately three years ago before right before the
Jalen Williams ched HOOLNK Draft, And I think it was
even prior to the lottery where I was asking, are.
Speaker 3: They headed in the right direction?
Speaker 2: Like I was a little bit nervous, And I think
it was because they hadn't really hit on a ton
of guys like pok Wu wasn't really coming along. There
were a lot of these guys where I was like,
what is actually going on here?
Speaker 3: Like I loved the idea initially.
Speaker 2: I always did like going into the draft and getting
as many of the apple That was always a philosophy
I was behind. But I felt as though three years ago,
you know, given that they already made a couple selections
to that point, I was like, like, they hadn't had
a home run, really, like they had Shay, sure, but
he wasn't even their own selection. It was one they
traded for, Like what was going on? Lo and behold
they get Chet and Jannel in the same draft and
everything is now basically history. Love the way that they
have approached to a team building and I also love
the fact that they didn't just exclusively exclusively that was
a difficult word to say. Apparently stick with the draft.
They were also interested in trades and acquiring veterans, like
the Alex Caruso trade last year was a stroke of brilliance.
So they continuously kept an open mind towards everything, which
I think is a great mark of a team that
understands how to build.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they rebuilt their roster just using a variety of
different mechanisms, and they seem to understand. Not that they
definitely didn't understand how good they were going to be,
because we have those quotes from Sam Presty about not
finishing your breakfast, so this becomes a pleasant surprise. But
he knew how to like once he realized what the
thunder were, they knew how to straddle that line. And
I think some people were pushing for them to make
the Carusoe Hartenstein types of additions earlier, like a season earlier,
but I think it was valuable to them to go
into last year's playoffs get that experience to kind of
just confirm we think we know what we need and
then they really confirmed it and they didn't even check
every box when they did it. But like the Hartenstein signing,
it's it's interesting because Alex Caruso did more, I think
in the grand scheme for this title push, but I
think Hartenstein at that point checked the bigger box when
you were looking at physicality and rebounding what they needed
on the front line. But then just the idea of
turning Josh Giddy's minutes into someone who could play during
the playoffs and not be this utter offensive liability was huge.
But you also just have to look at kind of
the the growth of not just Shay and Jay Dubb
and even yet but like Cason Wallace was in the
rotation as a rookie, comes back as a sophomore, just
becomes one of their most valuable defenders. And I know
he was topsy turvy by the end of the finals,
but I started looking at him as yeah, like I
just trust that guy to knock down shots now and
to just I know they didn't play necessarily massive roles
all the time, but that you can get to a
point where you have Isaiah Joe or like more I
would say more notably, like you just have these Aaron
Wiggins games. Well yeah, sometimes he's just not gonna have it,
but like he can very seriously keep you in a game.
They are so deep, just like the Pacers are. And
these are two teams that I think are probably gonna
birth a new model when it comes to try and
to build contenders. And it was you know, the final
thing for me about them is they are I know
some people don't like them, but for right now, they're
a likable superpower to me. And a lot of that
has to do some people just don't like the way
that shape plays. I think that's ridiculous, but to each
their own. We all have our own preferences. But like
the camaraderie, I liken it too. If you're a fan
of like a band when you were growing up, and
anyone who listens to this knows how I felt about
Blinkwin eighty two or still do You're not just like
in love with the art, You're in love with the
relationship between the artists, where there is that feeling of friendship.
This isn't necessarily purely a business or purely a cash grab.
Not every NBA team is like that. They don't need
to be like that. It is a job for these guys.
The thunder just feel very close. Like from their group
postgame interviews with some people I think believe it's cheesy.
I don't care. I find them cool and like just
to when you're listening to those postgame post finals interviews
about how anytime someone's being asked about themselves, it always
just goes back to the team. And I know that
there's a complicated relationship here because of the Clay Bennett stuff.
My stance on that is he is from Oklahoma, so
I understand what he was trying to do for that state.
I hate that it had to come at the expense
of the Seattle market, but I also think that the
previous owner, mister Schultz, like deserves some blame there. You
knew what the endgame probably was, you sold it anyway,
So I want to make a point. I understand that
there's a complicated history there. I want Seattle to get
a basketball team so much and I hope they eventually do.
And I'm not like a fan of glorifying the owners
when you give them the trophy, but like to see
Clay Bennett took the trophy immediately, gave it up, didn't
say a damn word like this is just and there
there have been reports and behind the scenes you've just
heard he kind of stays out of the way. He
leaves Sam Presty to his own devices, which why wouldn't you.
It's freaking Sam Presty, look at what he's done. But
like everything about this franchise right now just feels in
lockstep from the absolute top to I don't even want
to say the bottom, but just like from the roster
to the front office, to ownership to coach, just the
whole nine. And that's very, very, very I can't stress
this enough rare, and so it was kind of cool
to see that payoff, especially with something that doesn't feel transient.
Always want you know, people talk about how parody is great,
and we've now had seven different champions in a row.
Maybe we'll have another one, an eighth one next year,
But you also have to like the idea that there
is you want to call them a common enemy, but
there is this top dog that you have to unseat.
And the Thunder right now are that. And I like
the idea of something that is built to sustain, especially
when it pushes the boundaries of what today's NBA has
come where I think every competitive life cycle at this
point is fragile and fleeting. Even when you don't think
that it can end, it always can. And so like
this team is set up to we don't know what's
gonna happen in the coming months and years, but like
this team is probably built to weather it the labyrinth
of just sustainability more so than any team perhaps in
NBA history. Just when you look at the way that
their assets are set up, that.
Speaker 2: Was a perfect description of everything. So great, pot Dan,
talk to you later.
Speaker 1: Sorry, this is like, you know, the thunder they're not
When the Nuggets won the title, they was like it
wasn't a special I guess it was a special moment
for me because they were one of the teams like
Jokic this podcast, we were kind of out in front
on Yokic and like we're not here, you know, we're
not gonna self aggrid inize and say, oh, we were great,
Like we were out in front of the thunder too,
where everyone was saying like, oh, they're this is ridiculous
trade Shay, like what are like you kind of saw
something there, So kind of just being in on something
before it was in vogue is a little bit special.
But I think I just appreciate, like these teams and
the Pacers are similar. I end up appreciating these teams
where we make jokes about the Nicks and Villanova and
the power of friendship, but I also just like appreciate
that element of the NBA when these guys who spend
so much time together, these players generally seem to like
each other and this team just they're like it's just special.
They're young, and they're not unexpected because they got so good,
but their progression here was unexpected. And that's not an
outside perspective, Like Sam Presty literally didn't know like how
good they were in that moment two years.
Speaker 2: Ago, which means that he can go into this offseason
and actually keep doing the work. Because let's just be
real about that. If he thought coming into this year, oh,
we might not be ready. Still, there's absolutely no reason
to deviate from that path, like keep building, keep making
this team even stronger.
Speaker 3: Why the hell not?
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a good segue into looking at Okay,
what are they working with this offseason? So their cap
vitals and this is just this is absurd when you
really dig into the roster structure. They're about two million
underneath the tax and ten million underneath the first apron.
That's basically with seventeen contracts on the books, and you
can only you can only carry fifteen. So I included
the holds for number fifteen and number twenty four their
selections in the draft, but they already have fifteen players
under contract. If they guarantee deals for aj Mitchell and
Jaylen Williams, I'm very interested to see how they end
up juggling that. Is this a situation where they trade
We've seen them do it before. You're trading these first
rounders this year for first rounders coming down the pipeline,
is it time to move on from a Nuzman Jang?
Are you making a tougher call elsewhere? And of note two,
just when you're looking at trade assets, and if they
opt to continue improving, they have all their own first
rounders moving forward, and they could have an additional six
on top of that, and my guess would be, I'm
curious to see how you would handle like the roster
we'll call it the roster spot crunch. I kind of
feel like they're gonna be like the first team to
trade for something that involves a twenty thirty two first
round pick, where it's like kind of kicking the can
down the line for more of these imminent first round picks.
Speaker 3: Why not? I mean, that's a smart play.
Speaker 2: I completely get behind that because that point, what is
Shade like forty four thirty five.
Speaker 1: In twenty thirty two? Yeah, I think probably thirty three
because if he signs the Supermax, it'll end during his
age thirty two season. He's twenty what is he twenty six?
Twenty seven?
Speaker 3: Maybe, oh, okay, twenty six. Yeah, we're actually didn't.
Speaker 1: Get he is super so he won't be if he
signed the super Max, which would run through twenty thirty
twenty thirty one, that's his age thirty two season, so
he'll be thirty three by the twenty thirty two draft.
I guess.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, that's that's a great way to set
it up.
Speaker 2: Like, look, Sam Pristy can literally just take all those
draft picks and just hog the two thousand and three
two NBA draft and restart things all over again. That's insane. No,
I mean, let's let's get into the roster spot first,
because I think that's that's a super interesting debate. You
just called out Jang as probably going to be the
sacrificial lamb. That seems like a fair call, doesn't it.
At this stage, he hasn't really developed a whole bunch,
and I don't necessarily put that on him, like there
haven't been minutes available because this team is so old.
Speaker 1: Right, So j Mitchell found a way to crack the
rotation he did.
Speaker 2: I think that was more of a guard need as well.
But like, yeah, I get that. I just think he's
on the out. It's six point six million obviously for them,
and for the new salary cap. That's chump change. But
still you can pivot off that contract. I still think
there's a trade to be had somewhere. I'm a Kobe
White ish kind of trade where you're probably gonna use,
I say, at Joe as the outgoing salary. Do you
want to add something more to that, like at Dylan Jones,
like try to attach two for one to Kobe I maybe.
Speaker 3: So. I think they're going to.
Speaker 2: Be pretty It's going to be pretty straightforward in terms
of like getting the roster down to a manageable number.
Speaker 1: Let's look at some of their housekeeping before we get
into potential moves. This one should be quick. Shay is
eligible for a four year, two hundred and ninety three
point four million Supermax. It would start Hackle. Yeah, they
should offer him less. I think, see if you'll take
a pay cut. That would start in the twenty seven
to twenty eight season and it would run through his
age thirty two seasons, so twenty thirty thirty one. Like
we said, that is probably the single easiest decision that
any team has this summer, right, Yeah, is just and
he'll sign it. And by the way, that's another win
for the franchise. It's just like you got this guy
a year and the fact like you got I know,
they didn't draft him, but they got him so early
that he can still be super Max eligible because he
was on that rookie scale deal and you kept him happy,
like through the rebuild. He was clearly on the same
page with the organization. So that's another w for them.
The next two extensions, I wouldn't say they're probably similarly easy,
but maybe not. J Dub and Chet they can sign
those rookie scale extensions. The max is on those are
either four years and one hundred and ninety point five
million or five years two hundred and forty six point
seven million. That can, of course include the language that
it goes to five years and two hundred and ninety
six million. Should they win all NBA or one of
those year end awards, are they both? Do you think
they're both max shoeins or do we see something? No?
So do you think that I would say J. Dubb
feels like he is. Yeah, I think he gets to
Franz Wagner Like it's just the Evan Mobley, the Ky Cunningham.
It's five years with the ability to go up to
two ninety. Yeah, chat you think is more is a
different story, I'm guessing.
Speaker 2: Like, let me preface this by saying I really like
Chet Holnkrum. I'm not down on his game whatsoever, but
like the injury thing is real. Like, I know he
played eighty two games last year, but he missed the
entire rookie season. He missed a bunch of times this year,
granted freak accident, but at the same time, like availability,
it is just so damn crucial, and he remains a
very skinny dude, and that is unfortunately still a rough
challenge in the NPA to stay healthy when you're that skinny.
At the same time, I also think we kind of
have to ask the question in terms of like his
on court influence. We saw in the playoffs this year
he struggled. He struggled a shit ton, to be honest.
I mean he had a what did he end up
hitting from the outside in the finals, like fifteen percent?
He has these periods where offensively he is not as
reliable yet as you should be. So I wouldn't have
any issues taking him into restricted free agency, and then
if he gets a max offer, which he might get
in twenty twenty six, all right, then I'll eat it.
If he's significantly better at that point in time, then
I don't mind paying for what he's worth. Of course,
you can also look at it and go, well, we're
just going to cross our fingers and hope he's going
to be better in year four and then we just
sign him to a you know, the fun Max and
then that's it. Sure, I probably would try to see
if I can get him for a little cheaper than that.
But if it comes down to making him happy though,
and like paying a little extra, yeah, then then I'm
probably leaning into just giving him the max. But if
I can get away with it, I'm gonna try.
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if they took him into restricted
free agency, especially given that how they've handled previous situations.
Speaker 3: I also don't think that is the most likely past.
Speaker 1: No, I think he ends up getting the max. Maybe
there are some injury protections, but even that was look
at like Joel Embiid's deal or Zion Williams's deal, like,
none of those protections are they're not super team friendly.
So I think he ends up getting the max, just
because I agree with what you said a lot about
on offense, and there's still the whole can he certain
matchups you're trying to steer clear of with him at center?
I do wonder how much of some of those offensive
struggles is the stop and starkness of his career, Like
this year he missed what was it like fifty plus games?
Probably can help you. Yeah, so you if he could
get a healthy offseason into training camp, remain healthy, like
kind of get like some real momentum behind him. I do,
he's someone else. I know, he wasn't. He's not wasn't
hitting his threes in the finals, like you said, that's
someone though, where it's okay, like you need to jack
up fifteen point eight percent in the finals, like he said,
like you need to take more of those, because I
think that that opens up the floor a ton, and
it'll open up his driving game even more, you know.
Speaker 3: And I also un oh sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Oh no. The only thing other thing I was gonna
say is that he's so important to their scheme versatility
because you can play him with another big, you can
play him as the loan big. And that's why I
think that you're probably rolling the dice a little bit
on his health. And I do agree with your point
where the way that restricted free agency is set up,
if you don't necessarily believe that someone is healthy enough
or they're a no brainer MAX candidate, you should just
take them into restricted free agency. But in this case,
it's sort of just like if he reaches restricted free agency,
players of his caliber never do, and so some team
would just give him the max, and so I'm kind
of like, just get this out of the way now, Okay, see, you.
Speaker 2: Know what'd be a fun contract for him. Let's assume
he gets the twenty five percent of the CAP, but
it's a flat rate from year one.
Speaker 1: What do you mean because he can't go above his
max salary. So you're saying he gets below the max
but it's below the mass.
Speaker 3: But that's.
Speaker 2: Year one and that salary is going to be the
same salary moving forward. That would be a fun one.
So his cap hit or sorry, his cap percentage goes down.
Speaker 1: You know what's also I mean, he gets the full
maxx cap percentage probably going down anyway if we.
Speaker 3: Like it is, but like even more so.
Speaker 1: You said something that made me just think of this though.
Do you think that because of the way the new
CBA is set up to where, all right, the first
tier of the luxury tax is actually less putitive than
it was before, But as you move into those upper echelons,
the team building restrictions when you get into the first
apron and into the second apron, do you think we
can actually see We've talked a lot about, oh, the
bar for max contracts, especially after the fun max, that
first max is going to be higher. Do you think
there's a like, could we reach a point where we're
just kind of mentioning off handedly, or there's these injury
protections with Chad or like minutes played threshold or something like,
do you think there's a chance that those could become
more common in this collective bargaining agreement to continue protecting
teams like insulate them against the harsh harshities of those
those aprons, which, by the way, I want to hope
so because I just think this is I'm so annoyed
by the aprons, just because not only does it make
things more confusing for us, but it just seems like
the owners just won too much there, gave them excuses
not to pay certain things and to like squeeze players,
which I don't actually root for. I'm just saying from
the team's perspective, it's set up to do that right now.
I'm curious if like like chet might be a good
case study in that. Again, I think he just gets
the fully guaranteed max. Maybe he doesn't get that, you know,
all NBA language that if he does end up making
All NBA or winning Defensive Player of the Year, or whatever.
The thunder get kind of a not a bargain, but
it's okay, he doesn't get bumped up to thirty percent.
But now I'm just sort of curious, like teams have
to be planning around like all these longer term limitations,
and so I wonder if maybe he might be like
kind of how Trey Young's extension feels like a like
a gauge for how those non top fifteen players are
going to be treated in extension talks. Maybe he's like
a gauge for what happens with players who are fairly
injury prone.
Speaker 2: I think that would be very interesting if you could
bake that language in in more contract generally speaking, because
ched I mean again, one hundred and fourteen regular season
games for his career so far, that is not a
lot like I think that would like it's and also
it's a smart way to safeguard yourself. And also if
the guy is healthy, he'll get the money that he
signed for, Like it's. I think there has to be
also a certain leeway from the player in regards to
this because the money. We talked about this before, the
money have just grown so high in like raw volume
that he'll be fine, you know what I mean, Like
he'll sign some ridiculous Yeah, like he'll be fine, and
like the money has just reached such a boiling point
where you know, the player all has also has to
acknowledge on a certain level. Okay, you know what, I
missed a full season, and I missed fifty games in
this one. Like I understand why my employer wants to
make sure that it's a two way street. Like they're
gonna compensate me with a contract. That's God, I don't
even have the numbers in front of me.
Speaker 3: What what is it?
Speaker 2: What will his starting salary be depending on a twenty
five percent cap.
Speaker 1: If he gets like the full twenty five percent match yeah,
the full kick. Yeah, so that's forty two point six
million or forty two point five.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, my boy, are just gonna pay me
over forty million. Perhaps I should also have the self awareness.
And I'm not saying Chet doesn't, by the way, he
might have uh to know. Oh yeah, I haven't been
very available. It's funny though, because someone asked me about
a year ago why there is a deadline on the
rookie extensions before like the start of a season, And
I found that interesting, like because you're basically saying, oh,
now you have to gamble, Like there's this deadline coming up.
Why shouldn't you be able to actually extend with your
rookie contract player like deep into the fourth year of
their season.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, I guess is it for transactional purposes because
it's if you sign the extension, you know you're poison
build and can't really be traded.
Speaker 2: But why not make that up to the team, Like
the teams would be aware of that if they're willing
to just do that, why not make it open minded
and say, Okay, look, if you can sign this dude
to an extend to a rookie extension in late December,
if you want to, that's fine. Just know that comes
with the consequence that you can't trade him for X
amount of time.
Speaker 1: I honestly think it's set up to be more friendly
to the teams because the thinking might be, are you
able to get some concessions where if you're giving it
to them that early. Ohka as an instance, has it's
become more of a trend where these five year like
max deals, they don't have player options at the end
of them for those coming off their rookie scale. Like,
I think it's set up so that the teams say, hey,
we're locking you into this a year before we have to,
will you give us a little less? Can we take
the player option off the backhand? I really do think
that that's part of it. But that's an interesting question.
I've never given it much thought. I need to get
Keith Smith on it. Yeah, on all the ends.
Speaker 3: We need to ask Keith for sure.
Speaker 1: One more extension candidate. Well, there's actually a few, but
only one we're going to talk about. Lou Dort who
moret Look, it feels like objectively he's been around forever,
he's eligible for a three year eighty two point seven.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I remember him from the seventies.
Speaker 1: Come on, well if he if his three year extension
would be eighty two point seven million, it would run
through that's the max. Anyway, it would run through twenty
nine to thirty at the He'll be thirty in that season.
It feels like he should be fifty. I don't know
if it's just because he's the longest tenured Thunder player
and they've gone through so many different sort of like
mini cycles with him, But every time I see his age,
I'm like, how is he still How's this dude still
so young?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And do you remember the the reaction to when he
signed the current extension that he's on here. People thought
it was an overpay and now he's like heels like
one of they're more reliable shooters in the NBA finals.
And I still think his defense just like the job
description of hey, go erase that star from existence basically
is just not appreciated enough. But I would you extend him,
like we're talking about fourteen percent of the salary cap
in year one and it goes down from there or
are you just knowing what we're gonna talk about a
little bit? Are you trying to keep as many options open?
Just like right, let's see, I mean he could still
be traded after signing that extension too, not, I.
Speaker 2: Mean he could, yeah, because that doesn't exceed a twenty
percent bump.
Speaker 3: Right, Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, And honestly, but no, that would be I'm pretty
sure that it does exceed a twenty percent bump. It's
just that like, couldn't you just be traded six months later?
When like, if you just lock him down, he can
be traded six months later, which might get you before that, I.
Speaker 2: Mean regard I know it's only six months. Okay, so
it's let's see what would that Oh it's three year?
My bad, I read it as four years eighty two. Yeah,
all right, no, I get it.
Speaker 1: Sorry. Yes, My question would be one, if you're the Thunder,
you offering that extension? And two, if you're a flut order,
are you signing it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Three years eighty two or eighty three? Almost? Yeah? Yeah,
yeah you are. I love Door. I think you are. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you're saying he signs it? Would you offer it
as the Thunder?
Speaker 2: I I probably hackle a little bit, Like I'm not
gonna hackle to a point where I'm, you know, gonna
aggregate aggravate him.
Speaker 3: That's for damn sure I do. Because I think you
hit it right on the head.
Speaker 2: He is a you know, he's the type of guy
you want in the playoffs specifically, Like I know you
have Greuz so I know you have case On Wallace.
I know that, but like you need a guy like
him who is just you know, he can guard one
through three. I feel like he's just such a bulldog.
I would like to see perhaps a little bit more
friendly deal than that. And the absolute max of what
he can sign, but three for sev Yeah, that was
the number.
Speaker 1: Yep, same page. I'd probably just offer it because I
think you can because you can make the case that's
saying if like, in a situation where tyres Halburton goes
down in game seven, like, is lou Door theoretically a
little bit less valuable because you don't need him to
like Okay, nemhard like, you're not worried about those guys
in the same way. So if a team doesn't have
that player, lou Dort's less valuable, But the teams that
you're gonna need to beat predominantly are gonna have that player.
So I think I'm offering it. If you want to haggle,
that's fine, the vibes are good. Maybe he's just taken
whatever U But I think you could also make the
case that because that contract would run through his age
thirty season, that his trade value just increases on it.
Speaker 3: Imagine if he takes three years sixty.
Speaker 1: So you're mentioning the chet stuff before, and then like
if you get lou Dort for three years and sixty
or something, there's just gonna be people that are like,
so annoyed by the thunder. It's such the reactions will
be hysterical. They like image Shay is just like, yeah,
I don't really want the Supermax. Just give me like
the regular thirty percent Max or something. I want that
to happen, not for players to make less money, but
I think that the reactions would just be absolutely hilarious.
Speaker 2: Right, And also, like, again, we also have to acknowledge
that's still a lot of money.
Speaker 3: That's twenty million a year to.
Speaker 1: Be fair though, and I know that Brian to Porik
has said this a lot, and I know you've said
it a lot, Like we've yet to see yeah, okay,
it's so much money at some point it doesn't make
a difference. We've yet to see the player who just goes, yeah,
that's you're right, Like it's I'm just gonna whatever. You like,
that's a really good point. I got nothing there. So
we've had we have one player then, because like we didn't,
and even his is like insane because there's a chance
that he's just gonna be like the Knicks's fourth highest
paid player after next season, depending on what happens with
mckel bridges. But like we've yet to see that become
a commonality. And Jalen Brunton's interesting because like his stardom
wasn't guaranteed, like this assent was kind of towards the
end of his Mavericks tenure and then but like we've
yet to see like Lebron took a pack and again
he took less. So not making fun of Lebron specifically,
but this pay cut that he took was just over exaggerated,
the same way it was back in twenty ten when
he left Cleveland in the first place. So I'm I'm
wondering if like you're right, like what we see the
player like lou Dort, it's so much money or even
you know, we just talked about this with the Kevin
Durant trade. He's two years, one hundred and twenty plus million.
Is there any chance that he's just like, nah, I'm
good with two for eighty he said, you mentioned that'll
take him past half a billion dollars in an NBA
salary right in his career.
Speaker 2: And like you if you're being honest about it as well,
for lou Dort, you know, he gives you the defense, obviously,
he gives you the three point shooting, but he isn't
doing as you know, as I hate to say as much,
but like you know that he's a complimentary player. You know,
remember the year where he was like having to both
defend at a high level also score seventeen points per game,
and he was like super inefficient because he was just
overtaxed to like a perverse degree. Now he's been able
to optimize his own skill set, optimize his own role
because he's not asked to score seventeen points per game anymore.
He's asked to defend and take open shots. You know,
a guy like that might say, look sixty million to
do that. Hell, yeah, I'm fine, that's okay. I just
earned eighty was I think the eglastic singing was that
eighty eighty million on the last one.
Speaker 1: I I just so I get the logic. I'm just
waiting for it to kind of happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, if you're interested to Kendrick Williams, who I assume
we'll get a statue and okay, see at some point
he's extension eligible as well. That would be like his
do you know what his salary would be bumped up
to in a max extension? What ten point four million?
Just so cheap, you might as well just offer it
to see if he signs it.
Speaker 2: It'd be like you don't think he could actually be,
you know, a guy the team he goes. Teams out
there have always had interest in him. Remember when at
a time when the word was that he would cost
you two first round picks. I'm not saying that anyone
is willing to offer that, but like if they get
a first round like a late first round or not
like a late in terms of the first round or
second round, like I'm talking like in years, like if
they could offered like a thirty two draft pick first round.
Speaker 1: Or for what about a swap so that the Knicks
could get him thirty two spot for Kenrich Williams, who
could play center or power forward for them. That's how
much value I assigned to Williams. I would say, I
think k will Is or Kenny Hustle is too important
to the culture. But I'm also kind of wondering if
j will Big John Williams, who's also extension as well,
by the way, Yeah, I'm wondering if he's sort of
like the custodian of that culture after Kenrich Williams. Maybe
those are just two guys that stick around because they'll,
you know, the thunderill figure out how to play him accordingly.
But that's I've given some thought to that as to Okay,
if you get to a point where you're making a
trade or you really need to start juggling these roster
spots more aggressively, which one of them do you think
would be more likely to go or do you think
they would give up like Dylan Jones before j will.
Speaker 3: And yeah, oh yeah, they I think they would. I
think they will. Yeah yeah. Yeah. By the way, are
we absolutely sure that Jalen Williams.
Speaker 2: Would wouldn't be a bench player on all forty teams
because it feels like, for me, whenever he plays starter minutes,
he's just putting up wild numbers or and it is
just all over the place, Like I think he would
start on some teams, and it just makes it that
extra ridiculous that he's just an end of bench guy
for the Thunder.
Speaker 1: He will I don't know, man, what team would he
start on? So you're to your point, though, he would
definitely be a meteor part of I would say half
the league's rotation is just sort of a backup as
someone who's just this enforcer type, but will also take threes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, that's actually fair.
Speaker 2: I'm going through the list right now that maybe that's
putting it to too.
Speaker 3: Aggressively that he was saying.
Speaker 1: You also have to wonder at some point for him specifically,
because he's made so little, does unless they're gonna give
him like backup big type money and pay him accordingly,
which they would have the flexibility to do for a
little bit, does he ever get to a point where
he actively wants to just be somewhere else because more
prominent role would probably equal more earning potential. That is,
some things that they could run into as of right now,
like Jalen Williams is like Jay will That's probably the
only one where it's an issue. You'll eventually have that
maybe with Cason Wallace or maybe with an AJ Mitchell.
We don't know. Nicole Topic is just sitting on this
team as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so another non shooter by the way.
Speaker 1: Uh for now, for now, So here's the question more
and I'm just gonna throw a couple numbers at you
to back up why I actually think that the thunder
can't not that they can't afford to, but I'm not
completely running it back as tough as it would be.
You could. You just won the title. You make no apologies,
you do you, but like the offense still seems to
have some cracks in it. They were below average three
point shooting team for both volume and efficiency during the
playoffs slightly, but still got pretty ugly at points during
the finals. Their half court efficiency for the playoffs mort
dropped by seven point two points per one hundred plays. Yeah,
the league average drop was two point one points per
one hundred plays relative to the regular season. You have
shake gilges Alexander on your team. That's a little horrifying.
I know they faced some tough defenses, including Indiana's own.
That pressure's insane, but I think that their goal and
it sounds ridiculous because you mentioned so Kobe White as
an example, since now would be the time to get
into targets. I think they need a shooter or someone
who else who can generate some offense that actually cracks
their playoff rotation. And I'm not saying they need to
be in the closing lineup, but what gives me pause
about Kobe White, who I believe would be a good
fit for this team. Want to make that clear is
I think you at least want them to have more
size than that so that there is a chance of
them being in the closing lineup. Because while I'm sure
it would happen, I don't think in a playoff game
or an NBA Finals game that you're closing with Jaylen Williams,
Kobe White and shake Gil just Alexander maybe yeah, but
I just don't see it, and so I would gravitate
more towards I think Cam Johnson is the name that
everybody will throw out there. I'm wondering we call it
around these parts the thunder have choose your own adventure assets,
Like what does it take you get Trey Murphy out
of New Orleans?
Speaker 2: I mean, look, if Trey Murphy is one of those
players who you can get because you just keep throwing
assets the way of New Orleans, and it's Joe Dumar's
you know, heading that team now, so you probably won't
have to give up too much. As I recall it,
even though Joe built that championship team in Detroit, there
are some shortcomings there. If you can get Trey Murphy, yes,
I would take him over Kobe White. The reason I've
outlined White specifically was because of next to your salary slot,
because he's so easy to get him in there. But
you're absolutely right, Trey Murphy would crack the closing lineup.
He would be, you know, a full time starter, I
presume on this team like that. What would be the
starting lineup there, Shay Dort, Jalen, Trey, Chad Jesus.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: At that point, though, to your point, you run into
this issue with Kobe White beyond next season, but for
next season specifically, are you running into some salary And
you'd probably be fine for a season, but like the
salary crunch would hit faster and harder if you get
someone like Trey who's on that nine figure tension.
Speaker 2: Well, at least what you're getting, you know what you're
getting with Trey, you don't know with Kobe. I mean
that's that's you know, you don't know the salary that
Kobe White is gonna get. So at least with Trey,
that is a level of predictability that is nice to have.
And he's also fairly like modestly compensated, like his his
cap percentage this year is going to be sixteen point
two percent, and it's gonna drop down all the way
to fifteen point one in twenty eight twenty nine, that
those are very manageable numbers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean I think that he might
be the single most untouchable player in New Orleans, which
is why it's the Thunder, don't you know. Look how
they got Alex Caruso. They didn't give up a single
first round pick, So I right, you know, but I'd
be curious, like, would Detroit with Detroit would but Detroit
listen if the Thunder round would.
Speaker 3: They'd they'd be confused when you make that call. But sure, is.
Speaker 1: There any other like kind of offensive players with some
size not in the star range that come to mind?
As Okay, they might make some sense here because it
seems like it's weird that the Thunder might want that
archetype of player where it's like one of the most
sought after archetype. It was someone who could shoot and
have size and won't torpedo our defense, right.
Speaker 2: I think Murphy and White or two of the best
names like Infrey Simon's is a guy that I brought
up in context with the Thunder before that was before
they signed Issia Hartenstein though, So I was hoping they
would basically just try to trade for him into cap space.
Last summer, he's earning a ton of money, but it's
not necessarily that long term anymore. Right, Like he feels
like his contract, they're about to make a call on that, right,
Let's see, Yeah, he's an expiring contract after this Like
this year he enters US as an expiring contract twenty
seven point six million, he's extension eligible. Like, if you
trade for him, could you actually give him long term
money that's less than the current compensation level. I wouldn't
rule that out. The question is, though, does he crack
your you know, your your rotation, your end of game rotation.
Speaker 1: Again, Now we would run into this. I think I'd
probably prefer Kobe White over Anthony Simon's just.
Speaker 2: Actually I would too, And I would also go Trey
Murphy over both of them because of the size advantage.
Speaker 1: Would and this he's still on his rookie scale. He's
extension eligible. Though, does o chaiak Baji do enough?
Speaker 2: I don't think that does enough. He's interesting. I'm surprised
that while we're on the subject of the Blazer, she
didn't bring up Toomani Kamara there like that.
Speaker 1: I want like more bankable shooting, and I think, yeah,
I mean Tomay shot the ball while the past two seasons.
But that's like he honestly feels like he might be
more untouchable than Shane sharp It Scoot Henderson at this
point on certain days.
Speaker 2: But like if you could get like defensively, you know
immediately he would just be that. I mean that you
would actually improve theoretically defensive, which is such an absurd thought,
Like you let the league in defense, you might get
even better. Like if he becomes a forty three point
shooter and he can actually help his volume, wouldn't hate that?
Like you don't because you don't need a guy like
Trey Murphy average twenty one this year. That's not what
you need. You don't need a guy who comes in.
And like there's also this thing where even if you
bring in this Trey Murphy, like would he be a
little bit pod at the end of the year because
he went from twenty one to like thirteen or fourteen points.
Because like we have to remember there are going to
be players already established who are going to be looking
for shots, like chaed Jalen Shay Obviously, Like I don't
think you can expect Trey Murphy to come in and
just say, oh yeah, I'll relinquish seven eight points per game.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he's already been paid though, so I
think he might be okay.
Speaker 3: Also, if I workload while I get my money, well.
Speaker 1: If you're I just feel like by osmosis, he would
just integrate into this team's culture and would just like
you know, take over their ethos. But yeah, that that
is a good concern or of valor concern. What about again,
I keep brought these players are a little bit smaller,
but you talk about cost control. Theoretically he will be
up for a new deal. But Austin Reeves, was that
not not enough shooting for you?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I mean he's not a wing like he's a guard.
He's a guard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the Murphy's really the only he's the only
name that we've dropped that would be of wing.
Speaker 2: I don't hate it, like if he if he went
into that situation and was like, oh yeah, I'm just
gonna kind of weave myself into the fabric of this
identity of a team.
Speaker 3: Fuck yeah, I mean, then that's the best name out there. Now.
Speaker 2: The question is what's the compensation level or not the compensation,
what's what's the trade?
Speaker 3: Rather? Right?
Speaker 1: I mean it's probably because I mean maybe the Lakers
would want some of the stuff that the Thunder would
be prepared, like something built around would you want to
get rid of Hartenstein in that deal? Then you have
to open it up to other things. But yeah, it
would probably be. It feels like it'd be part of
a three or four team trade that they're just kind
of getting in on. What about like a Max Struz
or a DeAndre Hunter with Cleveland being in sort of
like that financial crunch.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's funny you bring up Cleveland. I would
be a one Hunter.
Speaker 2: But don't you think that the Calves right now as
they're looking at Milwaukee where Dame went down with Anquele's injuries,
They're looking at Indiana where Halley went down with Anekuilas injuries.
They're looking at Boston but Tatum when going down with
an Quilo's injury, and they're going, oh my god, our
path to the finals next year is wide fucking open.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there, I'm sure Orlando and the Knicks are
saying the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would probably lean towards Cleveland maybe having the
best upside of those teams so far.
Speaker 1: But do you view either one of those guys as
more important than bringing back Ti Jerome? So I don't
think they bring back to They're already like thirteen million
bucks into the second apron. I don't think they're gonna
sign Ti Jerome for like twelve or fourteen million year
whatever it ends up being.
Speaker 3: They're not far into it.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I do think that not Struce. Hunter is
a guy who I think is more important than Tiderome.
Speaker 1: Yes, so what do you think Hunter is more important
than Tideram you said so it would be Struce is
the I mean that he'd be a really good fit
on Okay, way, Yeah, here's a name that I can't
believe it wasn't one of the first ones. But they
have the assets to get I'm I'd be curious about
the outgoing money and all that. Imagine if this is
the Derek White team.
Speaker 3: You keep going guard Huh.
Speaker 1: He's like you can scale him up to the wings
a little bit, like more so than a Reeves or
a Kobe White or an Anthony Simon's That's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, ironically, Kobe's actually taller.
Speaker 1: Again, do you want Kobe White defending like threes or fours.
Though the answer to that would be.
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't I wouldn't hate it, but it's
I'm not like super enthused, Like I get it, and
I see the logic of bringing in a Derek White
like also championship pedigree, all that jazz, right, I kind
of want someone who's a little bit more dynamic.
Speaker 1: All right, I don't know, I'm not sure we've named
what did you say dynamic defensively?
Speaker 3: That's what you say offensively offensively.
Speaker 1: I think Kobe White would check that box. That's the
other thing though, was like when you're talking about trying
to make sure that you get Chet and j Dub
all these ample touches. I think Trey Murphy is probably
a little bit like he kind of straddles the two lines.
I don't know, you want him doing too much offensively,
but he's capable of bit more. I think Derek White's
a little bit more dynamic offensively than your credit. Like
I would prefer him on this team to like Anthony
Simons or even Kobe White when you're factory and the
total packages.
Speaker 2: That's that's probably fair. I maybe it's just because when
I think of Boston. I don't think of like one
guy who just jacks up everything and it But you're right,
like his three point rat is uprageous.
Speaker 1: It's fair, though his money's about to be not outrageous.
But that would be a tougher because what is Trey
Murphy making.
Speaker 2: Twenty Let me see, I think it was twenty five
this year or next year rather.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Derek White's about to be bumped up too, isn't
he in the thirties? He's at like thirty or he's
at twenty seven eight and then he's at thirty.
Speaker 3: Me.
Speaker 2: Look, Trey Murphy so far is the best name we've
come up with. There's no question there.
Speaker 1: Oh who costs more? Like who has more trade value?
Derek White or Trey Murphy?
Speaker 3: Trey Murphy.
Speaker 2: Just because younger size, I mean, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, I guess Derek White's a little older.
He's clearly the better player to me though, when you
look at everything he's capable of defensively, so I think
i'd probably lean Derek White has more trade value to me.
Right now?
Speaker 2: Is there a player who, like Trey Murphy has kind
of just signed his rookie extension or this is the
year it kicks in or whatever where you're looking at
that compensation level and you're going, oh, that's pretty that's
pretty great. That's team friendly. Let's get in on that. Like,
is there a team out there with a guy.
Speaker 1: Who So he's not Kim No, I actually think the
closest that you would come. And he only has two
years left on his contract and he's older, but like
Cam Johnson, the money is declining and it's in the
early twenties, right, I'll double check that, so you get
two years of kind of all right, we know what
this is. And then at that point, I mean, he's
gonna be in his thirties though, so like, would he
cost that much? Oh, and it's not. I'm sorry, it's
declining next season, but goes up to twenty two and
a half in twenty six, twenty seven. But that's still
that's a maginable number you could work around, which I
think is why people you talk about size. I think
that's why people he's the one that you mentioned, and
he's also you know, we're talking about Trey Murphy and
Derek White. Cam Johnson's gonna cost you fewer assets, and
we know that the nets aren't gonna view him as
as much of a long term core member as Boston
Mite with Derek White or New Orleans with Trey Murphy.
Speaker 3: All Right, I have a fucked up name for you then,
But here's the thing. He will be.
Speaker 2: He's already extension eligible, so like you will have to
deal with like the rookie extension stuff this summer and
or potentially having him going to strict free agency next year.
But he might actually fit what we're talking about. And
you have been telling me that it would be nice
to see him elsewhere to Bartie Smith, just where the.
Speaker 1: So are you getting? So j Will is never going
to play again at that point?
Speaker 3: Right? Probably not? I just feel size though.
Speaker 2: That's a six eleven power forward who is just launching
from the outside and giving you optimized spacing. Right, Is
this the team that would just kind of streamline his
role moving forward?
Speaker 1: Yes, I'd be curious if, like, is he capable of
scaling down that much? Like he has the outside shot,
but he's still and they scaled down a pretty good
amount in Houston. That's interesting.
Speaker 3: He took nine point nine shots per game this year
at thirty minutes, what was it?
Speaker 1: Three point at tenth rate four.
Speaker 2: Point nine, so that will have to be like, he
can still take ten shots per game, he just needs
to make sure that most of them are threes.
Speaker 1: That'd be an interesting name. I just don't think that
he's an established enough offensive commodity for them to say, hey,
this would be like if you get a Cam Johnson
or Trey Murphy or Derek White or something like, you know, Okay,
this is what we're gonna get from them offensively. And
then Jabari Smith still has a bit of the wildcard
status in there. That's an interesting name. Could you imagine
they just have all these so they would have Jabbari
Chet and Jatombs like these rookies that she got.
Speaker 2: That'd be so wild I want do you trust Tarry
Easton's three so far?
Speaker 3: Because defensively, good lord, he would just fit in.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, but they don't need Yeah, I don't know
if I trust Tarry Easton's Could you watch someone who
And that's the problem with when you get to Jabbari,
when you get to Tari Easton, when you get to
some of these, like the volume I think needs to
be not oh we're gonna bump up their volume. It
needs to be more of a pre existing assets. This
player's shown he will he will get up more threes.
I also does Houston look to move I guess because
of the extension, maybe they would, but like they didn't
give him up in the KD talks. But they do
have Steven Adams, they have Alpi, they have Tary Eason.
So does Cam Whitmore? Should they be going after Cam Whitmore?
Speaker 3: Cam would be fun? Cam would be really fun.
Speaker 2: He's got legit size six seven, like two twenty five
athletic as fuck.
Speaker 1: Talk about wild cards though, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: No, like at least the pre existing numbers exist, he's
getting them up there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't hate that as an experiment.
I'd be curious as to Like, again, you probably want
something that's a little bit more bankable. But he would
also fit the thunder model of oh, like, no, we're
gonna this might not be the name that everyone identified
for us, but we're gonna get this. May it work
and he'll just get better under there.
Speaker 3: If only Lauri Marknon didn't make as much money that he.
Speaker 1: Does, right, oh my god, he would have been on
that previous contract. Well, that was the target everyone wanted
them to go after. Last year. Do you remember was
Larry markinen as a one year rental? Harrison Barnes like
that could be someone that helps you a little bit,
but that's just a little uninspiring to me.
Speaker 2: It's uninspiring, but it's not a bad idea, Like he'll
get you those touches. By the way, Devin Massel is
also like compensated at a very modest level. You'll get
your shots. Defensively, he's not bad. He fits the timeline.
Speaker 1: That'd be interesting. I wonder what it would costs to
get him, but he's been like he's had some health stuff.
He's a little bit of a wild card too. There's
no perfect answer.
Speaker 2: And san Antonio will just basically have to acknowledge we're
never going to take another three pointer again.
Speaker 1: Well, Harrison Barnes will still be there.
Speaker 2: You're fine, You're good as you can. We can go
really obscure on this and just go malachite Brenham. Now
we're down.
Speaker 1: Well, So that's what I was gonna mention is because
I think you could mentioned the reason we're kind of
focusing on either medium or higher end options is like
if you got a Duncan Robinson, if you got when
insigned with Luke Canard or somebody. Okay, they would bring
the volume, but like, why would they play more than
Isaiah Joe if Isaiah Joe was still on the roster
As an example.
Speaker 2: I think that's a fair point. And I think I
have a name. By the way, Dahn Saint.
Speaker 1: Evencenzo Dad is fascinating, although the way he shot the
ball in the playoffsid points this year, maybe it's not
so fascinating. That would be a good one. Again, we're
just we're just determined to find people who are shorter
than six six for them though apparently Trey Murphy is
he the only one we named that? Well, Cam Wentmore,
but that's the wrong part. Yeah, he's the only one
that's older sixty six? Right? Who else have we named?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Cam Johnson's over sixty six, right and.
Speaker 3: Kim Witmore six to seven?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can coming back to Trey Murphy or Cam Johnson,
Like those.
Speaker 3: Are Cam Johnson? Sorry he's six ey.
Speaker 1: McHale Bridges doesn't do it right, just not enough offensively.
Speaker 2: I'd mean that three it's just what the hell do
I do with that three pointer? Like he's gonna change
it again?
Speaker 3: I don't know. We need someone who can.
Speaker 1: Jub and shay like to get into the mid range.
Mikel Bridges will do the same thing. What about let's
just well know his money is too much? Must say,
would you consider o g Annobi? But he just makes
too much money to fit into the structure of this day.
Speaker 2: I think by process of elimination on this suppose supposed
twenty minute podcast that has now gone fifty one minutes, Well,
I have I.
Speaker 1: Have one more name. Okay, one more I don't think
you're gonna like it because you don't seem to like him, Okay, Keegan.
Speaker 2: Murray, Wait wait, I love Keikan Murray. I'm just I'm
just disappointed.
Speaker 1: Didn't you say you wouldn't pay him like even mid
level money? Is what you said on the King's podcast?
Speaker 2: No, I think I said, Oh God, did I say that?
Was that aggressive? I must have had a bad day.
I not mid level money. I'm not that doubt on him.
I'm not that down on him. But what I've said
is I want to take him to restrict free agency.
That's what I say said.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, So maybe you did say that, And I'm
just trying to create content here. I'm trying to create
strife so that we can.
Speaker 3: Catch fire with Kings fans.
Speaker 2: Sure, now, if I said that's apologize to Keigan because
that's aggressive.
Speaker 3: I do like that fit, though, I do like that fit.
Speaker 2: The thing for me, though, is in his rookie season
he was leaned into being like the shooter of the bunch,
Like he was supposed to be that guy who just
knocked down threes and then he wanted to expand his game.
Speaker 3: It didn't happen.
Speaker 2: Like, is he open to the idea of just kind
of saying, Okay, you know what your career is going
to have to change.
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to be a three and D guy.
Speaker 2: You're not going to be that twenty point scorer that
we all thought you would be, or even that yourself,
because he kind of alluded to the to that during
his draft time as well, that he thought he could
be an elite type of scorer. Like, does he have
the mindset to come in and say, all right, you
know what, fuck it, I'm just gonna launch threes and
play defense.
Speaker 1: I obviously don't know. He's definitely has the mindset to
play defense. We've seen that specifically over the past two
years improved I wonder if, like right, I do wonder
if some of the ones, some of the lineups that's
the Thunder run that are ultra small. And then if
you're kind of I don't know who's going out, but
let's say like Aaron Wiggins is in some way part
of that deal, does he maybe can he take some
of those on ball touches that Aaron Wiggins gets to
where the Thunder might be better built to when they
only have one star like one of j Dubb or
Shay on the court. You could get him some on
ball reps, but then like he's still firing up threes
around those like he can take he could be a
more balanced version and idealized version maybe of Aaron Wiggins
when you look at his size, when you look at
his his I mean the defense, Like Aaron Wiggins we
know can play defense like ke and Murray's taken on
like a like very incredible workload on that end the
past two years. But I think that that's a if
what you're saying, if Murray really thinks that there's more
juice to squeeze out of his offense, then yeah, this
becomes a but it's also it's also not because like
they do have. It's you have Shay and you have Jay,
but it's not like anyone else here needs to dominate
the ball. Maybe that's part of the appeals. You don't
want someone else to come in and do that. But
I don't think it's unworkable, and that would be that's
another dice roll though, right, because he's extension eligible as
we're recording this.
Speaker 2: And that's why I would prefer Aaron Wickins because I
know financially what I'm getting over the next three years, and.
Speaker 1: Kegan is probably gonna cost you double.
Speaker 2: And while I like Keegan, I don't like Keegan to
a point where he's like two.
Speaker 3: Aaron Wickins's.
Speaker 1: Right, But you're also kind of it's do you yeah,
but it would be like a trade. So you think
Trey Murphy is what you're saying, is enough of an
upgrade where you view him as like two of the
Thunder's rotation players at least at one.
Speaker 3: Pretty much fair.
Speaker 2: I will say we shouldn't close the door on Aaron
Wickins just kind of taking more of a role next year.
Speaker 1: Oh that's my guy. It's not. I was just using
it as an example of like a Keegan Murray be
like the most idealized version of Aaron Wiggins scept taller.
I like the Key and Murray one though, because now
you don't have to worry about the salary for a year,
like he's super cost controlled. And then maybe the extension
is I don't know what it is. Now. If he
ends up getting like thirty five million dollars a year
in an extension, then okay, yeah that's problematic, but.
Speaker 3: Uh whatever, I mean, what team would do that? Though?
Speaker 1: I don't I honestly don't know. I think, like, I
think the comp for him has been he's gonna get
Trey Murphy money, maybe a little bit more because of
the way the salary CAP's going. If that's what he's
gonna sign for, that's not that buys you more time,
right because he's on a rookie scale right now. Yeah,
and then that deal doesn't start until twenty six.
Speaker 2: God, I mean again, I love Kegan that if he
signs for a deal that pays him for thirty five
million a year.
Speaker 1: No, no, I was saying that Trey Murry, what if
he gets the Trey Murray deal, maybe a little uch
Trey Murphy excuse me.
Speaker 2: Trey Murphy deal. Yeah, yeah, all right, I know I can.
That's still a little too rich for my blood.
Speaker 1: Really, wow, I think you made you probably did say
you wouldn't pay the mid level for him. That's where
I that's where I feel like this is going.
Speaker 2: I mean again, it's just I need more. I need
some consistency. He has to sting he can wear. He's
very affected. It feels like by confidence, like when the
shot isn't dropping, like he just seems to like become
hessitant and passive, like you can't can't do that in
today's NBA kind of have a goldfish memory.
Speaker 1: Okay, we got Look, we got to give the Pacers
their flowers. This was just an incredible season from them
at a point where a round Thanksgiving, a lot of people,
myself included, had kind of written them off. I think
this will go down as one of the coolest playoff
runs of all time. You look at all those shots
that Haliburton hit, all those comebacks, the way that they play,
the way they adjusted Rick Carlisle played like twenty five
guys every single night. It was crazy, and they're still
set up the tyres Haliburton, he tore his right achilles tendon.
That's gonna have to be a discussion that we're gonna
get to in a second. But they are still set
like they have the ability to let this float for
a few more years if they really believe in this
core and the functional depth. I think we talked about
this with the Thunder two, like this is a team
that I think is very much going to become a
trendsetter for how teams are trying to, you know, construct themselves.
We know that they always looked to Okay, NBA champions,
but what the Pacers specifically have, more so than the
thunder more so than when the Celtics won. You just
look at it and say, it feels like mirrorable minable
because it's Okay, Tyre's Haliburton's great, there's no another Tyres Halbert.
But there's they feel accessible and that's I don't mean
that as an insult, but that's why I think they
could become an inspiration for teams that are looking to build.
But just what are your closing thoughts on the twenty
twenty four twenty five Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 2: I think they showed a blueprint that works for these
very small teams, small market teams, because they didn't go
the route of the Thunder where they had a Brazilian
draft picks, right, they just decided that every single transaction
that they made was was stellar, was thought through, there
was logic, there was cohesion, hesion to every single thing
that they did. So again it's it's one of those
teams that actually seems to look at the margins and go, hey,
we have to win the margins. We have to make
sure that whatever deal would we make or draft picks
that we utilized, that we have to get the most
out of it. So attentions detailed. It's so important in
stays league, and there's so many teams that just don't
give a flying fuck about it. The Pacers due and
s a direct results they found themselves in the finals.
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I just find interesting or
compelling about this team, with the exception of Tyres Haliburton's acquisition,
it feels like pretty much every move they made was
either it came with hefty doses of skepticisms or was
widely panned. Looking at the Siakham trade his contract, how
many people try to trade Miles Turner, how many people
lampooned the Obie Topping contract, How many people thought they
shouldn't have extended Andrew Demhart when they did. How many
people were like, oh, trade Benedict Mathern already, it just
you go down ot How many people said that they
should stop playing TJ McConnell as many minutes in the
NBA Finals at one point, only one person may have
said that, and he might be sitting on your screens
at this very moment. And that's just it's like, I
think that's why they feel so surprising. When you look
at their vitals and if you watch them for like
fifty plus games in the regular season, you understood how
good they were. And you and I were on record
as saying they were the third best team in the
Eastern Conference, like it was we thought it was the Celtics,
the Cavs and then the Pacers, right, But like I think,
because there was this ingrained skepticism into basically everyone on
their roster, that probably contributed to them feeling so a surprise.
Even Aaron nee Smith like, we're like a year and
a half or moved from me being nervous when he
would dribble on drives, and some people wondering whether they
sold too low on Malcolm Brogden.
Speaker 2: I actually forgot about that, No, I but again that
that proves how quickly things concern when you're in the
right environment. Right meee Smith, Right now, I think we
both agree he's a high end starter. We considered him
a high end starter the Obi Tobin contract. While sort
of expensive, like he just gave them what they needed,
the scoring, the rebounding, the energy, the ethoticism andry m hard.
Something just magically happens whenever the date turns from the
regular season to the playoffs and you want to play
him in the playoffs. Same is as stellar as ever. McConnell, Like,
if they'd won the game last night, could we have
argued that he probably should have won finals MVP. I
don't know, like that would have that would not have
been that would not have been a bad selection. Matherin's
right there. They have some upsize and Jarifs Walker, who
unfortunately got injured. Ben Shephard is a guy I like
imagine if they suddenly get something out of Johnny Furfy
next year and like he becomes a rotation player, like well, yeah,
we'll see.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, they were just a really fun team to watch,
and I think that even though they didn't win the title,
the fact that they pushed this historically great Thunder team
when you look at the regular season point differential to
a game seven while winning just so many come from
behind games. This is one of those playoff runs where, Okay,
it didn't end in a title, but it feels like
it will be tattooed to memory for anyone who was
kind of like keeping track of the playoffs, where you
won't forget this Pacers team. What you also won't forget, unfortunately,
is the tyres haliburt and achilles injury. Everybody knew. I
hate that. That's I hate that we know it now,
like I like just when it happens, a player's reaction.
But he tore his right achilles tendon. That was confirmed
the day after the finals ended. Next year's likely awash.
He is twenty five at at this moment, but to
be fairly surprised if he plays again. I will say
they made the trade to get their own twenty twenty
six pick back because it saved them a three point
two million dollars salary slot this coming season by giving
up number twenty three. Having that pick now is a
huge deal, just because if for some reason you're not
good or you decide to go through a gap year.
There's that huge light at the end of the rainbow.
But I think we're gonna get into I think like
what direction they should go. But I think the important
thing to remember here is that we can't just view
this through next season's lens, Like, yes, Tyres Halburton, next
year's a wash. Do we expect him just to come
back in twenty twenty six and be like one of
the very best offensive superstars in the league. I hope.
So maybe he's young, but like it'll probably take him
a little while to regain his footing. And so now
you're talking about, no, you don't punt on twenty six,
twenty seven, but you start to ask questions about Myers.
Turner's a free agent, like Pascal Siakam is gonna be
in his like mid thirties ish at that point age
thirty two. I believe like you have to start now.
It's like these uncomfortable questions that you need to start
asking that you weren't we you and I or at
least I've I've at least talked about it ad nauseum,
and you're plasick of hearing it, Like just the fleeting
and for fragile nature of these windows even when you
don't think they're gonna shut, is just it's absolute insanity.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I mean, look, I'm I wrote about this
over dahoo here today, It'll probably be up later. I'm
perhaps I'm just too emotional about this at this point
because it's so close.
Speaker 3: I'm just like ready to say gap year.
Speaker 2: I don't want to blow this to Smith Reens whatsoever.
I think this unit has something special, you know, around
it that said this was a team that said we
want to go into the tax or we're willing to
go into the tax to keep miles turnaround. Now you
have to wonder out loud, are you still open to
doing that? Should you go into the text? Like what
are there players you might be willing to pivot off
off to save money? Like should you break it will
be top and perhaps into smaller pieces and then trade
those out whatever. I want to still maintain the core.
I'm willing to take like the gap year and then
the year where he returns where he's probably playing at
what sixty to seventy percent capacity.
Speaker 3: Because I just I don't want this to end. I
just don't.
Speaker 2: I think there's something there and they play off of
one another. So goddamn well, I.
Speaker 1: Think that's all fair. I'm curious to see if that's
gonna be the reality. And it kind of starts with
Miles Turner is the inflection point. So during the offseason,
the Pacers are about twenty million dollars under the tax,
twenty seven and a half under the first apron only
eleven players though, and that also does not include new
deals for Miles Turner or Isaiah Jackson, who also had
his own achilles injuries this year, and they do is.
Speaker 3: Just Sorgia House Weisman have that as well, Yeah he did.
Speaker 1: This is just a really bad year, really bad year
for Achilles overall, but really bad for Indiana specifically. They
have all of their own first rounders after twenty twenty
five as well, so they could trade up to four
this summer if they decided, hey, we're not gap yearing
it like we're gonna go after somebody. Miles Turner is
kind of like the first big one though, and so
they did say they were gonna go into the tax
to re sign him. There's been reports that he could
command thirty million dollars a year. The Pacers have not
paid the tax since two thousand and five. I guess
the question is this, do you think what's more likely
they just pay the tax as planned, they let him walk,
or they resigned him and then someone else becomes collateral
damage so that they could duct the tax.
Speaker 3: Option P.
Speaker 1: They let him walk?
Speaker 2: No option pH is that option? See then where you
resigned him, would you let someone else?
Speaker 3: Sorry? Bad?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, wow, I was not expecting that one.
Speaker 3: My mistake.
Speaker 2: You resign him, he's such a core piece. Then you
figure out who you trained, Like, do you train high
on Tej McConnell.
Speaker 4: No, not without Hallie, right, I mean did you just
kind of say, okay, let's find a stopgap point guard
on the min market and then run Andrew Nemhars as
a starting point guard?
Speaker 1: Man? No, you know what, I don't. This is so
stupid to say, But you just made the joke that
could he have been Finals MVP TJ McConn In terms
of just helping them maintain their offensive identity when it
comes to pace and understanding like how to change the
cadence of the way they're playing. I don't think with
Halibert you can't. I feel like he's like maybe one
of the three most indispensable players on this team.
Speaker 2: Now, look, he might be right, but I okay, So
who's the sacrificial lamb?
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned like if you believe in Johnny Furfey, Like,
are you looking at are you revisiting the Obie Toppin'
well again at that point? Or do you just think, Hey,
Benedick Mathren, who we're going to talk about in a minute,
he's extension eligible, like coming off that rookie scale, Like
do you consider that? It's? Yeah, I don't like, I don't.
I guess I don't know where the Obie topping still
feels like maybe it would be the most likely to
where it's you're not wiping his salary off the Ledger entirely,
but you're getting someone who's cheaper. Other than that, it's
you mentioned TJ McConnell or Benedickmathren. I don't think it,
like because a Ben Sheppard, even at jaris Walkers, you
don't know enough about him at this point. But I
guess if you just took his salary off the books
and sent him into Brooklyn's cap space, let's say for
a late first round pick, you could do that. But
that's selling really low on what was the top ten
pick two years ago, and they like him a lot. Well,
if you do like him a lot, next year is
gonna be I would assume to some extent of developmental year.
Maybe that just increases the likelihood that it's topping.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, because he can play the four.
Speaker 2: Rick Carlisle told me in Paris that they'd spend a
lot of time like turning him into a three man
this year, but naturally he is a four. So if
you move off top and presumably you have your compro
forward right there in Jeris Walker ready to play frankly
a shit ton of minutes, I wouldn't hate it, like
I would also hate giving up op top because I
actually think he fits this DNA so so well.
Speaker 1: And he proved like so valuable during the finals to
them too. He did, so I would propose this that
you just enter the tax and then you figure it
out at the trade deadline based off where you are. Yeah,
because having to make the decision too, because they have
the entire year to get out of it, and we
also know that, like you know, you and I can
mention a gap year, but historically that hasn't necessarily been
in the Pacers's DNA, Like, this wasn't a roster that
was assembled around a bunch of top ten picks. So
I think if you're going to try and be competitive,
go into the tax, and if it turns out it's
not worth it, then you look at the deadline. Because
when we're talking about the margins here, if Turner costs
you thirty million, I mean, I guess you're kind of
looking at it right. Let's just say they're thirty they
end up thirty five million into the tax or something.
I mean, not there like fifteen million. Yeah, right, that's
tough to cut at the trade deadline. I'm not gonna
lie like that would be. But you have players who
I guess in theory could fit into like trade exceptions
or non tax payermid levels if you're really looking to
duc it. So that could be a little bit harder
than I'm laying it out, but it.
Speaker 3: Does feel like trying to get though.
Speaker 1: If he doesn't, it's a lot easier if he gets
twenty five. I mean that increases your margins for sure.
Speaker 3: Because what's a number?
Speaker 1: Can I ask you this, what's a number you would
feel comfortable with saying we can shave off that much
money at the trade deadline to duck the tax, Like
what's the max number? Like is it ten million?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Like ten to like full and med le money,
which is like fourteen.
Speaker 2: It feels like he does That's that's manageable, right it
can the market shakes out though.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also they're not are they traded Anyone who's
in that price range. Everyone they're trading might not have
a ton of value, but no one's just like, oh,
we don't want that money on.
Speaker 2: Our books, right, So let's let's go into the Miles
Turner stuff just in terms of like the contract, what
what do you think is a reasonable number if you
can get him below the frety?
Speaker 3: Is it like twenty five?
Speaker 1: Even doesn't like four for one hundred, feel like right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's twenty five even, I'll do that.
Speaker 1: I would do that, but it's would he I don't
know where that money is coming from on the market,
maybe in sign in trade scenarios. But I just think
his archetype. I know he didn't have like the cleanest
NBA finals, but his archetype is so difficult to replace,
and he's not super. He's going into his age twenty
nine season so at four years, you're running through his
age thirty two season four for one twenty feels like
that might be what it ends up at. Maybe just
like a flat rate.
Speaker 3: Like thirty straight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe you front You could front load the
first one, but then you're into the tax I don't
know why you would front you would front load it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a little rich. I do think
that's a little rich.
Speaker 2: Uh, Like I would I would probably feel most comfortable
with twenty five and like, if he really puts up
a fight, I could probably go to like four to
one o eight, so twenty seven years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I'm probably comfortable with four for one twenty.
Just that's still under twenty percent of the salary cap.
Speaker 2: And the cap is gonna increase. So I think for me,
the key with here is keep his salary consistent like flat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be not for them because you're going
through a gap year. If you weren't so deep like
worrying about the tax it makes sense to front load
it so that he gets cheaper as you get better.
But they're just not going to have the flexibility to
do that. Aaronie Smith extension as will of three years
sixty four and a half million. That'd be like eight
point two percent of the salary cap in your year one.
It would run through his age thirty one season. I
think if you're the Pacers, you have to offer it,
right if your niesmith? Are you taking it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I am.
Speaker 2: I think I am because the system is also set
up for me to be the best version of myself.
So far, am I sure to get the same role elsewhere?
I'm not really sure? So by taking that deal, yeah,
I'm up to my seeing my financial flexibility, and I'm
staying in a place where I have a big role,
where I get shots, and where I'm vital to the
team's success. I don't see why he wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if, like, would it makes sense for him
to wait so that he could just sign a longer
extension and just lock in more money next summer.
Speaker 2: I mean sure of what, like what age age would
he be there? Let's see what are we looking at?
Speaker 1: Well, so this one is going to be taking him
through his age thirty one season, so he'd be what
age twenty seven next summer?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's young enough, right to go squeeze it? If
he wants to. I mean he could. It depends right,
so I you know what it's it. Actually, it's not
a bad idea because with Hallie out, presumably shots are
going to have to be distributed differently. There is a
world wherein the Smith is going to get more shots
within the flow of the offense next year. That might
be a perfect stepping stone for him to spread his
wings and then go into the market and say yeah,
like or like he's extensional ultible of course next year
as well and say look it's it's gotta be more
or I'm I'm probably I'm out of here, something like,
trade wise whatever.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be opposed.
Speaker 2: To him going into next year and then seek that
additional year and then perhaps being open minded so actually
going into the twenty twenty seven market as an unrestricted
free agent, depending on how he played that this year
next year.
Speaker 1: The a Benedict Matherin situation is super interesting. He's eligible
for his rookie scale max would be four years and
one hundred and ninety four or five years and two
hundred and forty seven. I don't think he's gonna get that.
Those are just reference points. I probably would have bet
on him going to restricted free agency or at least
not signing an extension. Now I'm sort of wondering does
he become more important following the Tyres Haliburton injury that
they look at trying to get a deal done.
Speaker 2: Just turned twenty three, like four days ago, super young,
super athletic, knows how to get to the free throw line.
The three pointer is the biggest thing for me because
we know that he's not a playmaker. We know that
he's not you know what you would call, quote unquote
an all around guy.
Speaker 3: He's a play finisher.
Speaker 2: Can he lean into that role and just be like
a super potent scorer and like carry the Pacers next
year without Halibert if he can, I would pay him
off that those you know that basis, But I just
don't know the answer to that question. And because I
don't know the answer to that question, I would feel
maybe forced into an extension that I don't feel potentially
comfortable with, depending on the number, of course, Like what
would you pay him right now based on.
Speaker 3: What we know?
Speaker 1: It's so I don't still have a great feel for
what the numbers are on. Not that he's a complete flyer,
but these unproven, non max guys, and so it's just like,
is it should that be like a four years and
eighty situation? Like is that the new sort of just
like that's the roll the dice. We don't know what
you're gonna turn it on.
Speaker 3: I signed him that for eighty.
Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, I immediately I was still I was thinking,
Jalen Green, is.
Speaker 1: That three years and one hundred and no?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm saying that that's probably the case that
his team is gonna make, like if they they aren't short,
then like, okay, then let's give us a shortage term
contract if you aren't really sure about like where we
were going, and then they're gonna use Jalen Green as
sort of a comparison point. I'm not saying he should
sign that, Dan, I'm not saying or I'm not saying
the Pacers should sign that.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I wouldn't. I could you offer him that
if you're the Pacers, what's the what is your number
that year?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I look, I mean I would love eighty over four years.
I would freaking love that. I think my max personally
at this stage is four years one hundred.
Speaker 1: I think that still ends up being a decision for them. Yes,
I think you kind of have to try and decide
how but because he could fade in and out of
the rotation and so like that's not that's still a
number that you don't want that person to still fade
in and out of the rotation. And so you're also
losing a year of as you continue to try and
fit him in to the larger ecosystem of the team.
With Haliburn out, he probably becomes more of a central focus.
And so like, do you it's just so weird and
I don't have He's one of those players. I don't
have a great feel for what he would get. I
don't think I would, you know, flinch at twenty five
million a year. But yeah, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Green contract. I'm not saying I want that.
I'm saying that is what his team is going to propose.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe he gets it, and like that'll
be some sort of just the proof that well, this
is just what the market is. They're they're not max players,
but they have value and this is what the market's
going to be for those archetypes. I will say, if
they put the jail in green contract on the table,
I'm signing that. If I'm back lightly. Yeah, even if
it's shorter than I want it to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a tough call as well, Like he's
started started less than half of the games in his
career as well, Like I think you have to bake
that in, Like they aren't really entirely sold on him
as a as a full time starter, even like that
has to be a part of the calculus.
Speaker 1: Do you think he gets an extension or is it
taken into I won't even say RFA. Do you think
he's on an extension when next season begins?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Man, that's so tough because the Halley thing is so fresh.
I mean, everything just is upside down right now. I
wouldn't panic. If I'm the Pacers, That's probably where I'm at,
and I'd be I'd be willing to to gamble on it.
I think he goes into RFA.
Speaker 1: I probably would do the same. And it also keeps
your trade options open during the regular season if you
decide that you need more of a wholesale pivot, what
is the plan here then more? Are you leaning into
the gap year? Are you can you do that with Siakam?
Are you confident enough that he's still gonna be good
enough by the time that Halle is Halle again, assuming
he gets there. And what do you view as kind
of their biggest needs for next season, Because here's the thing.
If it's me, I'm going through a gap year. But
it's so tough to know what that looks like when
you have so many capable players on your roster, and
so I'm not saying they need to get a top
five lottery pick. I'm viewing it more as okay, like
we're still gonna kind of try and win, but like
I want to develop Jaris Walker. I want to see
what we have in Johnny Furphy. If Benan mcmathern is
still on the team, like let's really try and expand
his role, especially with Halle out. And I think I'm
confident enough to where it's like, I don't know how
Siakam's game is actually gonna age, but like he's in
his early thirties, I'm just going to I'm gonna try
and manage the crap out of this and if they
make it into the playoffs, then so be it. That's
when you kind of but I'm going into this season
really prioritizing setting myself up for the following year.
Speaker 2: Yep, I couldn't agree more. I'm playing Sam significantly less
next year. I'm not asking him to coast, but I
am telling him that we want to keep you fresh
and we want to preserve you long term for when
Halet Burton is back. We have a zero interest in
you going out and playing two thousand plus minutes next
year or two and a half thousand minutes next year.
We want to keep your minutes total low. We want
to make sure that you are as healthy and fresh
when you enter.
Speaker 3: Like year what you're thirty three, your thirty third year.
Speaker 2: And to his credit, Siakam, though he always seems to
me to be one of those guys who has this
team first mentality, I'm sure you will understand the approach
and the logic of it. I also think he will
age gracefully because he's just such a finesse guy. Like, yes,
he is athletic, but it's not something he relies upon.
He relies on footwork, he relies on jump shooting, like
the mid Rain game. Like, I don't think that's going anywhere,
So I'm all in on a gap here. But as
you said at the top of the show, is that
a realistic expectation.
Speaker 3: I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think the Pacers know it happened less
than twenty four hours ago, that injury. I think the
Pacers themselves are like, fuck, what are we gonna do?
Like right now, as we're recording this, I'm guessing they're
having meetings in Indiana, Like they're probably sitting around a
table right now, just throwing out different ideas.
Speaker 1: And I think the thing with a gap year two
is that you do maybe optimize the final two years
of Seacom's contract that way, where people were kind of
worried about the out years on that. And if he
goes through a season where his minutes are monitored a
little bit more, where he's not making a super deep
playoff push, it sets you up nicely. And I think that, yeah,
while they might need to we mentioned the multi year window.
Now you can make the call to like, Okay, this
isn't you know, we start twenty twenty six doesn't look great.
You can pivot from there. You can make trades in season.
This isn't a they need to trade Pascal Siakam now,
but I'm sure I'm sure that discussion is coming.
Speaker 2: All I need for them next year is what you
basically said is lean into the youth. I want Jaris
Walker to play twenty five forty freaking minutes a game.
I want him to be incorporated heavily into the offense.
I want to see Johnny Furvey get more minutes. I'm
not saying you should get Ferdy. I want to see
him just get minutes. If they keep Benedic Mathrin, yeah,
lean into his scoring. Let's if you're trading off OPI Toppin,
see if you can find someone who's younger, like, someone
who you can actually give minutes to, someone who flies
under the radar, someone who you might have liked in
previous draft setting but never got your hands on. Now
you have a chance to maybe get that guy via
a top in trade. Put him into the rotation. Whoever
that player is like trade for Kim whitmore like go
for someone who's just like underutilized elsewhere, and see if
you can spend the next year just building a freaking
team that embraces Halbert when he returns.
Speaker 1: I do feel like this is a team that will
still try and remain competitive next year, and I think
their biggest need now is another playmaker. For general type
aside from having Siakam and McConnell and Nemhart, any names
that they're not going to have in terms of spending tools.
If they're bringing back Miles Turner, maybe they have the
mini mL, but are they even willing to spend it.
That might be, you know, when you're looking at trades,
that might be the thing where it's Okay, we have
to give up over the top and we have to
give up at mcmatherm. But it's to get a point
guard type in here.
Speaker 2: I hate this name, but it's just I don't know
what his market is and that's why I'm just throwing
it out there.
Speaker 3: What is the angel Rustler going to make next year?
Speaker 1: I have no idea he doesn't like Is he still
a mid level player?
Speaker 3: That's like, I don't even know. He might not be.
Speaker 1: Can Tias Jones play the way the Pacers want to play?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's going straight on my only fans? Then yeah,
I love me some tis. I would love that. That's
that's a good one. I do you think he'd be
open to taking another Mint deal after he just signed
one last year?
Speaker 1: I would assume not, And I'm assuming he'll have at least,
Mini MLI.
Speaker 3: Offers, Yeah, he'd be a great stop gap, though Chris.
Speaker 1: Paul can't really play the way they want to play,
or at least doesn't want to. He's getting up there.
Speaker 3: I think he's Lakers bound. Two.
Speaker 1: What about Dennis Shrewder, assuming that they could figure out
how to get him, Yeah, that'd be fun. I think
there's anything good like trade targets that one because you
don't want to. I mean, I'm at the point, like, no,
you're absolutely not trading a first round pick?
Speaker 2: What about child like Ti jer Rome is going to
get the full non tax em like, because there aren't
money out there.
Speaker 3: Right, Like, are there anyone?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we could throw Scottie Pippen Junior's name out again,
since that's what we do for every team.
Speaker 3: That's Oh, that's fun. You'll have to trade for him though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that probably cost you a first round pick, right?
What about Like would Aaron Holliday be a good enough
stop gap? But that's just someone that you know you
could get. That's so you trust him to handle some
like to take on more ball handling responsibilities. I mean, again,
it's an experimental year, so I don't hate it. That's
a good name. I love Io. Kobie White would work,
would work very well well if they were willing to
give up the assets to get him.
Speaker 3: I mean it's I don't even think you need to.
Speaker 1: Oh what about again, matching the money those were like
Cole Anthony, that'd be fun. I don't love that one.
Thirteen million and it's okay. So you're definitely sending out
Obie Toppen at that point, Yeah, Dad, it's tough there.
Oh man, they're not a Russell Westbrook team all day
free agency.
Speaker 3: Don't don't put that evil on them. That's not fair.
Speaker 1: Spencer Dinwity Again, I'm just looking at like that could
be someone who would sign for the minimum, right, Oh.
Speaker 3: Are we back in twenty twenty two?
Speaker 1: What options? I mean, I'm working with pennies here. When
you're looking at free agents specifically, I liked it.
Speaker 3: And when he's just fine, I just don't think he
had a great year.
Speaker 1: It would probably have to be a Miles Turner sign
and trade, and then the Lakers can't even acquire him
like that. I was gonna say, Austin Reeves would be
just to add him to this roster and like try
to juice the offense that way without Hallie. But I
think the opportunity cost there would be too high.
Speaker 3: I'm sticking with Ioh. I like that one.
Speaker 2: Seven and a half million, two. That's not a lot
of money. You can you can find a way to
get that in.
Speaker 1: No, you could definitely figure that out for sure. Uh,
Malik Monk's probably too expensive.
Speaker 3: Injury frone, do you even dare?
Speaker 1: Now if it's I own Lonzo and you're sending out
like the what is it eighteen million dollars in salary,
you have the top end deal. That's interesting. Lonzo is
perfect for the style they play. You could probably only
give you like fifteen minutes a game. Those two would
be I mean, you're you're you're skewing small at that point,
but I think you're banking on all right. Or one
of these centers that were injured, maybe it's a Wiseman
or Jackson Jackson, they're gonna come back cheap and healthy.
Or we could just approximate value at the center position there.
That would be fun.
Speaker 2: That would be really give up the idea of Lonzo
Ball in Toronto next to Grady Dick.
Speaker 1: We've probably also sent Lonzo Ball all sorts of other places.
Who do you know, what's a good name. Let's say
this team's look gonna cut costs and a third team
is involved. That's taking on money you're sending out. Mike
Conley is a stop gap here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good one. Isn't he from Indiana? Ashley?
Speaker 1: I do not know. I can double check that, but
that would be I mean, he had some low this year,
but like as a stopgap, that would be perfect. Comes
off the books. He was He went to.
Speaker 3: School Arkansas, Yeah, high school. I went to Indiana.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think he played with Greg Odin right
in Indiana back in high school.
Speaker 1: At Lawrence North. Yeah. Yeah, So went to college in Ohio,
high school Indianapolis, and born in Arkansas.
Speaker 2: That's a journey man right there. Okay, but there's there's
at least some Indiana connection. I want partial credit.
Speaker 1: Oh weird. I feel like there's an obvious name here
expiring contract. I don't know. Could you do it without
giving up a first round pick? Is the question? Colin Sexton.
Speaker 2: I love the scoring, I don't. I don't love the playmaking.
Speaker 1: No you shouldn't. It's like basically out of drives.
Speaker 3: And that's right, exactly. That is that the player you need.
Speaker 1: As a stop gap. I think it's just sort of
you know, if you could get him for Obi toppin
so to spend seconds or something.
Speaker 2: Right, But he's gonna take shots away from the guys
who want to develop too.
Speaker 1: Who who is he taking shots away from?
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 1: You think, like they're not gonna run stuff through jars.
Speaker 2: Water Perhaps be Mathrine. Okay, Johnny Fervor was a joke.
But like Benedic Mathrin and jeris what like, I don't
hate him saying shots away. He's not even that old.
Like you might actually just trade for him and then go,
you know what, he could be around when Hallie's back.
Speaker 1: That is that's possible. So but like those are sort
of like that's on the we mentioned Sexton, we mentioned
even Io. I would say those are on like the
higher end of solutions that they could probably go after
in terms of free agency. Maybe he maybe Tias Jones
really sees this as okay, I'll take the minimum or
maybe it's the mini mL E and he've used it
as now I can really because they have to play him.
This isn't Phoenix, who's gonna stick him in the corner.
A lot of the time, like he's gonna have to
play a prominent part.
Speaker 3: I would love that Tias Jones is good. I'll die
on that hill.
Speaker 1: Anything else on these pacers or can you tell our
listeners and subscribers where they can find you and all
the work that you do.
Speaker 3: I think we're okay on the pacers.
Speaker 2: You can find me over at Yahoo Sports, over at Forbes,
you can listen to the NBA podcast and you speak
Danish plus re reader, and you can also find you
over a pluekuy at MSJN.
Speaker 1: Until next time, and as always, with the shout out
to the one, the only, the indelible, I'm actually going
to shout out Tarry Salibert here. Get well soon. I
hope he comes back just as good, if not better,
in twenty twenty six