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Speaker 1: What is up, fellasiko as I am Dana Valley coming

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at you with the one, the only, the officially certified fantabulous.

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He's getting that stamp of approval now that he has

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helped us out with so much content over the past

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few weeks. Mort Jensen of the NBA Podcast, Fame of

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Yahoo Sports, Fame, of Forbes Fame, and of OnlyFans Celebrity,

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We are here for the NBA Finals wrap up slash

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doubling up with the offseason look ahead portion of that

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wrap up before we dive in, Mort, how the heck

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are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. I'm tired. That was a very long night.

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I'm glad, like I love the Finals, very very entertained,

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glad that the season is over so I can just

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kind of simmer down, go into offseason mode because that

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is just a couple of weeks and then I'm off.

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I can I can take a breather, I can refuel

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for next year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So hopefully I'm really hoping to catch a beat,

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like by the end of July, maybe it'll slow down

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a little bit, but like the draft and free agency

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is going to be a whirlwind, and we've got plenty

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of content to pump out as everybody seeing, which if

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you have not already subscribe, rate review, help us out

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over here. We put out a lot of content the

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past two months during the postseason slash into the offseason

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mo so we appreciate all the support commenters, You've been

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awesome and stuff conversing with you guys. Join our discord

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the links in the podcast and YouTube description if you

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want to talk more hoops. But yeah, if you haven't

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subscribed already, do that post taste the Oklahoma City Thunder

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NBA champions more it happens. Average roster age of basically

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twenty five and a half, which is insane. And I

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think it's just impressive on two fronts. Because we say

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this sometimes, but now more than ever, you have to

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couch it by acknowledging. Oh, things change fast in the NBA.

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It's not always for the better. But I don't think

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that I have ever seen a team that is better

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set up to continue running the tables for the foreseeable

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future and having to make the additions and any substractions

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that they need to. There'll be tough decisions, but the

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payroll structures there. But before kind of digging into their

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actual offseason, Just what are your kind of thoughts about

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the thunder because this is the second part of that

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ending up here when it feels like fewer than three

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years ago, wasn't there an outcry of like, oh, how

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could they do this to Shay? Like be this bad?

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When they were rebuilding and the turnaround was what a

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year and the title turnaround was like fewer than three.

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Speaker 2: I remember recording with our mutual buddy Brian's Porik about

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this team approximately three years ago before right before the

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Jalen Williams ched HOOLNK Draft, And I think it was

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even prior to the lottery where I was asking, are.

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Speaker 3: They headed in the right direction?

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Speaker 2: Like I was a little bit nervous, And I think

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it was because they hadn't really hit on a ton

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of guys like pok Wu wasn't really coming along. There

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were a lot of these guys where I was like,

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what is actually going on here?

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Speaker 3: Like I loved the idea initially.

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Speaker 2: I always did like going into the draft and getting

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as many of the apple That was always a philosophy

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I was behind. But I felt as though three years ago,

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you know, given that they already made a couple selections

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to that point, I was like, like, they hadn't had

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a home run, really, like they had Shay, sure, but

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he wasn't even their own selection. It was one they

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traded for, Like what was going on? Lo and behold

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they get Chet and Jannel in the same draft and

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everything is now basically history. Love the way that they

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have approached to a team building and I also love

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the fact that they didn't just exclusively exclusively that was

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a difficult word to say. Apparently stick with the draft.

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They were also interested in trades and acquiring veterans, like

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the Alex Caruso trade last year was a stroke of brilliance.

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So they continuously kept an open mind towards everything, which

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I think is a great mark of a team that

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understands how to build.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they rebuilt their roster just using a variety of

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different mechanisms, and they seem to understand. Not that they

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definitely didn't understand how good they were going to be,

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because we have those quotes from Sam Presty about not

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finishing your breakfast, so this becomes a pleasant surprise. But

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he knew how to like once he realized what the

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thunder were, they knew how to straddle that line. And

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I think some people were pushing for them to make

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the Carusoe Hartenstein types of additions earlier, like a season earlier,

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but I think it was valuable to them to go

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into last year's playoffs get that experience to kind of

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just confirm we think we know what we need and

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then they really confirmed it and they didn't even check

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every box when they did it. But like the Hartenstein signing,

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it's it's interesting because Alex Caruso did more, I think

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in the grand scheme for this title push, but I

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think Hartenstein at that point checked the bigger box when

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you were looking at physicality and rebounding what they needed

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on the front line. But then just the idea of

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turning Josh Giddy's minutes into someone who could play during

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the playoffs and not be this utter offensive liability was huge.

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But you also just have to look at kind of

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the the growth of not just Shay and Jay Dubb

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and even yet but like Cason Wallace was in the

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rotation as a rookie, comes back as a sophomore, just

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becomes one of their most valuable defenders. And I know

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he was topsy turvy by the end of the finals,

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but I started looking at him as yeah, like I

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just trust that guy to knock down shots now and

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to just I know they didn't play necessarily massive roles

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all the time, but that you can get to a

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point where you have Isaiah Joe or like more I

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would say more notably, like you just have these Aaron

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Wiggins games. Well yeah, sometimes he's just not gonna have it,

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but like he can very seriously keep you in a game.

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They are so deep, just like the Pacers are. And

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these are two teams that I think are probably gonna

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birth a new model when it comes to try and

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to build contenders. And it was you know, the final

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thing for me about them is they are I know

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some people don't like them, but for right now, they're

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a likable superpower to me. And a lot of that

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has to do some people just don't like the way

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that shape plays. I think that's ridiculous, but to each

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their own. We all have our own preferences. But like

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the camaraderie, I liken it too. If you're a fan

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of like a band when you were growing up, and

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anyone who listens to this knows how I felt about

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Blinkwin eighty two or still do You're not just like

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in love with the art, You're in love with the

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relationship between the artists, where there is that feeling of friendship.

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This isn't necessarily purely a business or purely a cash grab.

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Not every NBA team is like that. They don't need

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to be like that. It is a job for these guys.

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The thunder just feel very close. Like from their group

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postgame interviews with some people I think believe it's cheesy.

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I don't care. I find them cool and like just

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to when you're listening to those postgame post finals interviews

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about how anytime someone's being asked about themselves, it always

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just goes back to the team. And I know that

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there's a complicated relationship here because of the Clay Bennett stuff.

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My stance on that is he is from Oklahoma, so

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I understand what he was trying to do for that state.

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I hate that it had to come at the expense

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of the Seattle market, but I also think that the

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previous owner, mister Schultz, like deserves some blame there. You

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knew what the endgame probably was, you sold it anyway,

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So I want to make a point. I understand that

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there's a complicated history there. I want Seattle to get

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a basketball team so much and I hope they eventually do.

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And I'm not like a fan of glorifying the owners

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when you give them the trophy, but like to see

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Clay Bennett took the trophy immediately, gave it up, didn't

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say a damn word like this is just and there

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there have been reports and behind the scenes you've just

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heard he kind of stays out of the way. He

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leaves Sam Presty to his own devices, which why wouldn't you.

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It's freaking Sam Presty, look at what he's done. But

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like everything about this franchise right now just feels in

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lockstep from the absolute top to I don't even want

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to say the bottom, but just like from the roster

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to the front office, to ownership to coach, just the

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whole nine. And that's very, very, very I can't stress

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this enough rare, and so it was kind of cool

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to see that payoff, especially with something that doesn't feel transient.

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Always want you know, people talk about how parody is great,

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and we've now had seven different champions in a row.

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Maybe we'll have another one, an eighth one next year,

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But you also have to like the idea that there

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is you want to call them a common enemy, but

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there is this top dog that you have to unseat.

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And the Thunder right now are that. And I like

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the idea of something that is built to sustain, especially

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when it pushes the boundaries of what today's NBA has

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come where I think every competitive life cycle at this

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point is fragile and fleeting. Even when you don't think

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that it can end, it always can. And so like

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this team is set up to we don't know what's

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gonna happen in the coming months and years, but like

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this team is probably built to weather it the labyrinth

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of just sustainability more so than any team perhaps in

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NBA history. Just when you look at the way that

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their assets are set up, that.

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Speaker 2: Was a perfect description of everything. So great, pot Dan,

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talk to you later.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, this is like, you know, the thunder they're not

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When the Nuggets won the title, they was like it

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wasn't a special I guess it was a special moment

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for me because they were one of the teams like

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Jokic this podcast, we were kind of out in front

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on Yokic and like we're not here, you know, we're

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not gonna self aggrid inize and say, oh, we were great,

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Like we were out in front of the thunder too,

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where everyone was saying like, oh, they're this is ridiculous

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trade Shay, like what are like you kind of saw

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something there, So kind of just being in on something

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before it was in vogue is a little bit special.

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But I think I just appreciate, like these teams and

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the Pacers are similar. I end up appreciating these teams

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where we make jokes about the Nicks and Villanova and

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the power of friendship, but I also just like appreciate

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that element of the NBA when these guys who spend

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so much time together, these players generally seem to like

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each other and this team just they're like it's just special.

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They're young, and they're not unexpected because they got so good,

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but their progression here was unexpected. And that's not an

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outside perspective, Like Sam Presty literally didn't know like how

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good they were in that moment two years.

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Speaker 2: Ago, which means that he can go into this offseason

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and actually keep doing the work. Because let's just be

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real about that. If he thought coming into this year, oh,

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we might not be ready. Still, there's absolutely no reason

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to deviate from that path, like keep building, keep making

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this team even stronger.

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Speaker 3: Why the hell not?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a good segue into looking at Okay,

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what are they working with this offseason? So their cap

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vitals and this is just this is absurd when you

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really dig into the roster structure. They're about two million

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underneath the tax and ten million underneath the first apron.

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That's basically with seventeen contracts on the books, and you

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can only you can only carry fifteen. So I included

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the holds for number fifteen and number twenty four their

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selections in the draft, but they already have fifteen players

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under contract. If they guarantee deals for aj Mitchell and

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Jaylen Williams, I'm very interested to see how they end

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up juggling that. Is this a situation where they trade

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We've seen them do it before. You're trading these first

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rounders this year for first rounders coming down the pipeline,

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is it time to move on from a Nuzman Jang?

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Are you making a tougher call elsewhere? And of note two,

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just when you're looking at trade assets, and if they

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opt to continue improving, they have all their own first

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rounders moving forward, and they could have an additional six

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on top of that, and my guess would be, I'm

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curious to see how you would handle like the roster

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we'll call it the roster spot crunch. I kind of

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feel like they're gonna be like the first team to

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trade for something that involves a twenty thirty two first

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round pick, where it's like kind of kicking the can

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down the line for more of these imminent first round picks.

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Speaker 3: Why not? I mean, that's a smart play.

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Speaker 2: I completely get behind that because that point, what is

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Shade like forty four thirty five.

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Speaker 1: In twenty thirty two? Yeah, I think probably thirty three

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because if he signs the Supermax, it'll end during his

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age thirty two season. He's twenty what is he twenty six?

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Twenty seven?

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Speaker 3: Maybe, oh, okay, twenty six. Yeah, we're actually didn't.

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Speaker 1: Get he is super so he won't be if he

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signed the super Max, which would run through twenty thirty

249
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twenty thirty one, that's his age thirty two season, so

250
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he'll be thirty three by the twenty thirty two draft.

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I guess.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, that's that's a great way to set

253
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it up.

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Speaker 2: Like, look, Sam Pristy can literally just take all those

255
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draft picks and just hog the two thousand and three

256
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two NBA draft and restart things all over again. That's insane. No,

257
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I mean, let's let's get into the roster spot first,

258
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because I think that's that's a super interesting debate. You

259
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just called out Jang as probably going to be the

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sacrificial lamb. That seems like a fair call, doesn't it.

261
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At this stage, he hasn't really developed a whole bunch,

262
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and I don't necessarily put that on him, like there

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haven't been minutes available because this team is so old.

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Speaker 1: Right, So j Mitchell found a way to crack the

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rotation he did.

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Speaker 2: I think that was more of a guard need as well.

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But like, yeah, I get that. I just think he's

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on the out. It's six point six million obviously for them,

269
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and for the new salary cap. That's chump change. But

270
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still you can pivot off that contract. I still think

271
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there's a trade to be had somewhere. I'm a Kobe

272
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White ish kind of trade where you're probably gonna use,

273
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,240
I say, at Joe as the outgoing salary. Do you

274
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want to add something more to that, like at Dylan Jones,

275
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like try to attach two for one to Kobe I maybe.

276
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Speaker 3: So. I think they're going to.

277
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Speaker 2: Be pretty It's going to be pretty straightforward in terms

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of like getting the roster down to a manageable number.

279
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Speaker 1: Let's look at some of their housekeeping before we get

280
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into potential moves. This one should be quick. Shay is

281
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eligible for a four year, two hundred and ninety three

282
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point four million Supermax. It would start Hackle. Yeah, they

283
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,559
should offer him less. I think, see if you'll take

284
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a pay cut. That would start in the twenty seven

285
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to twenty eight season and it would run through his

286
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age thirty two seasons, so twenty thirty thirty one. Like

287
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we said, that is probably the single easiest decision that

288
00:13:57,279 --> 00:14:00,879
any team has this summer, right, Yeah, is just and

289
00:14:00,919 --> 00:14:02,600
he'll sign it. And by the way, that's another win

290
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for the franchise. It's just like you got this guy

291
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a year and the fact like you got I know,

292
00:14:06,919 --> 00:14:08,799
they didn't draft him, but they got him so early

293
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that he can still be super Max eligible because he

294
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was on that rookie scale deal and you kept him happy,

295
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:15,279
like through the rebuild. He was clearly on the same

296
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page with the organization. So that's another w for them.

297
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The next two extensions, I wouldn't say they're probably similarly easy,

298
00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:26,600
but maybe not. J Dub and Chet they can sign

299
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:30,279
those rookie scale extensions. The max is on those are

300
00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,879
either four years and one hundred and ninety point five

301
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,799
million or five years two hundred and forty six point

302
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,120
seven million. That can, of course include the language that

303
00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:40,759
it goes to five years and two hundred and ninety

304
00:14:40,799 --> 00:14:43,039
six million. Should they win all NBA or one of

305
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,440
those year end awards, are they both? Do you think

306
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,200
they're both max shoeins or do we see something? No?

307
00:14:49,399 --> 00:14:51,519
So do you think that I would say J. Dubb

308
00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:53,799
feels like he is. Yeah, I think he gets to

309
00:14:53,879 --> 00:14:58,080
Franz Wagner Like it's just the Evan Mobley, the Ky Cunningham.

310
00:14:58,159 --> 00:14:59,600
It's five years with the ability to go up to

311
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,879
two ninety. Yeah, chat you think is more is a

312
00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:04,919
different story, I'm guessing.

313
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Speaker 2: Like, let me preface this by saying I really like

314
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,720
Chet Holnkrum. I'm not down on his game whatsoever, but

315
00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:13,759
like the injury thing is real. Like, I know he

316
00:15:13,799 --> 00:15:16,679
played eighty two games last year, but he missed the

317
00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:20,480
entire rookie season. He missed a bunch of times this year,

318
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,120
granted freak accident, but at the same time, like availability,

319
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,679
it is just so damn crucial, and he remains a

320
00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:34,600
very skinny dude, and that is unfortunately still a rough

321
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,600
challenge in the NPA to stay healthy when you're that skinny.

322
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,919
At the same time, I also think we kind of

323
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,320
have to ask the question in terms of like his

324
00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:47,559
on court influence. We saw in the playoffs this year

325
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,440
he struggled. He struggled a shit ton, to be honest.

326
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I mean he had a what did he end up

327
00:15:53,679 --> 00:15:55,840
hitting from the outside in the finals, like fifteen percent?

328
00:15:55,919 --> 00:16:00,919
He has these periods where offensively he is not as

329
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,639
reliable yet as you should be. So I wouldn't have

330
00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:08,480
any issues taking him into restricted free agency, and then

331
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,440
if he gets a max offer, which he might get

332
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,399
in twenty twenty six, all right, then I'll eat it.

333
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,799
If he's significantly better at that point in time, then

334
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:19,559
I don't mind paying for what he's worth. Of course,

335
00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:21,960
you can also look at it and go, well, we're

336
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,000
just going to cross our fingers and hope he's going

337
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,639
to be better in year four and then we just

338
00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:29,200
sign him to a you know, the fun Max and

339
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,320
then that's it. Sure, I probably would try to see

340
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,440
if I can get him for a little cheaper than that.

341
00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:39,840
But if it comes down to making him happy though,

342
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,559
and like paying a little extra, yeah, then then I'm

343
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,200
probably leaning into just giving him the max. But if

344
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,399
I can get away with it, I'm gonna try.

345
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,240
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if they took him into restricted

346
00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:56,639
free agency, especially given that how they've handled previous situations.

347
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 3: I also don't think that is the most likely past.

348
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,000
Speaker 1: No, I think he ends up getting the max. Maybe

349
00:17:06,039 --> 00:17:08,960
there are some injury protections, but even that was look

350
00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:11,759
at like Joel Embiid's deal or Zion Williams's deal, like,

351
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:15,559
none of those protections are they're not super team friendly.

352
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,359
So I think he ends up getting the max, just

353
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,079
because I agree with what you said a lot about

354
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,799
on offense, and there's still the whole can he certain

355
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,720
matchups you're trying to steer clear of with him at center?

356
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,720
I do wonder how much of some of those offensive

357
00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:30,920
struggles is the stop and starkness of his career, Like

358
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,079
this year he missed what was it like fifty plus games?

359
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,519
Probably can help you. Yeah, so you if he could

360
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:40,480
get a healthy offseason into training camp, remain healthy, like

361
00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:44,160
kind of get like some real momentum behind him. I do,

362
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,279
he's someone else. I know, he wasn't. He's not wasn't

363
00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:49,079
hitting his threes in the finals, like you said, that's

364
00:17:49,079 --> 00:17:51,480
someone though, where it's okay, like you need to jack

365
00:17:51,599 --> 00:17:54,039
up fifteen point eight percent in the finals, like he said,

366
00:17:54,079 --> 00:17:56,359
like you need to take more of those, because I

367
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,279
think that that opens up the floor a ton, and

368
00:17:58,279 --> 00:18:01,480
it'll open up his driving game even more, you know.

369
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,599
Speaker 3: And I also un oh sorry, go ahead.

370
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: Oh no. The only thing other thing I was gonna

371
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,640
say is that he's so important to their scheme versatility

372
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,759
because you can play him with another big, you can

373
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:12,079
play him as the loan big. And that's why I

374
00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:15,119
think that you're probably rolling the dice a little bit

375
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,599
on his health. And I do agree with your point

376
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,359
where the way that restricted free agency is set up,

377
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,319
if you don't necessarily believe that someone is healthy enough

378
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,960
or they're a no brainer MAX candidate, you should just

379
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,279
take them into restricted free agency. But in this case,

380
00:18:29,279 --> 00:18:32,519
it's sort of just like if he reaches restricted free agency,

381
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:36,200
players of his caliber never do, and so some team

382
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,759
would just give him the max, and so I'm kind

383
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:40,480
of like, just get this out of the way now, Okay, see, you.

384
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,440
Speaker 2: Know what'd be a fun contract for him. Let's assume

385
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,079
he gets the twenty five percent of the CAP, but

386
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,759
it's a flat rate from year one.

387
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: What do you mean because he can't go above his

388
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:56,039
max salary. So you're saying he gets below the max

389
00:18:56,599 --> 00:18:57,920
but it's below the mass.

390
00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,279
Speaker 3: But that's.

391
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,799
Speaker 2: Year one and that salary is going to be the

392
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:06,960
same salary moving forward. That would be a fun one.

393
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,920
So his cap hit or sorry, his cap percentage goes down.

394
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 1: You know what's also I mean, he gets the full

395
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,440
maxx cap percentage probably going down anyway if we.

396
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,839
Speaker 3: Like it is, but like even more so.

397
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,279
Speaker 1: You said something that made me just think of this though.

398
00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:24,279
Do you think that because of the way the new

399
00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:26,799
CBA is set up to where, all right, the first

400
00:19:26,799 --> 00:19:29,559
tier of the luxury tax is actually less putitive than

401
00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:32,079
it was before, But as you move into those upper echelons,

402
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,279
the team building restrictions when you get into the first

403
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:36,319
apron and into the second apron, do you think we

404
00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:38,880
can actually see We've talked a lot about, oh, the

405
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,400
bar for max contracts, especially after the fun max, that

406
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,640
first max is going to be higher. Do you think

407
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,039
there's a like, could we reach a point where we're

408
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:49,559
just kind of mentioning off handedly, or there's these injury

409
00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:53,799
protections with Chad or like minutes played threshold or something like,

410
00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:55,680
do you think there's a chance that those could become

411
00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:59,440
more common in this collective bargaining agreement to continue protecting

412
00:19:59,519 --> 00:20:03,000
teams like insulate them against the harsh harshities of those

413
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,000
those aprons, which, by the way, I want to hope

414
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:09,240
so because I just think this is I'm so annoyed

415
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,240
by the aprons, just because not only does it make

416
00:20:11,279 --> 00:20:14,400
things more confusing for us, but it just seems like

417
00:20:14,839 --> 00:20:17,440
the owners just won too much there, gave them excuses

418
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,519
not to pay certain things and to like squeeze players,

419
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,920
which I don't actually root for. I'm just saying from

420
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,519
the team's perspective, it's set up to do that right now.

421
00:20:25,519 --> 00:20:27,279
I'm curious if like like chet might be a good

422
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:29,759
case study in that. Again, I think he just gets

423
00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:32,640
the fully guaranteed max. Maybe he doesn't get that, you know,

424
00:20:32,759 --> 00:20:34,799
all NBA language that if he does end up making

425
00:20:34,839 --> 00:20:37,079
All NBA or winning Defensive Player of the Year, or whatever.

426
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,480
The thunder get kind of a not a bargain, but

427
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,599
it's okay, he doesn't get bumped up to thirty percent.

428
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:43,960
But now I'm just sort of curious, like teams have

429
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,039
to be planning around like all these longer term limitations,

430
00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:49,960
and so I wonder if maybe he might be like

431
00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:53,240
kind of how Trey Young's extension feels like a like

432
00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:56,440
a gauge for how those non top fifteen players are

433
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,480
going to be treated in extension talks. Maybe he's like

434
00:20:59,519 --> 00:21:01,640
a gauge for what happens with players who are fairly

435
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:02,359
injury prone.

436
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,279
Speaker 2: I think that would be very interesting if you could

437
00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:08,359
bake that language in in more contract generally speaking, because

438
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,240
ched I mean again, one hundred and fourteen regular season

439
00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:14,920
games for his career so far, that is not a

440
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,319
lot like I think that would like it's and also

441
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,599
it's a smart way to safeguard yourself. And also if

442
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,119
the guy is healthy, he'll get the money that he

443
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,160
signed for, Like it's. I think there has to be

444
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,079
also a certain leeway from the player in regards to

445
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,559
this because the money. We talked about this before, the

446
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,799
money have just grown so high in like raw volume

447
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,319
that he'll be fine, you know what I mean, Like

448
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,440
he'll sign some ridiculous Yeah, like he'll be fine, and

449
00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:48,279
like the money has just reached such a boiling point

450
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,279
where you know, the player all has also has to

451
00:21:52,319 --> 00:21:54,240
acknowledge on a certain level. Okay, you know what, I

452
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,079
missed a full season, and I missed fifty games in

453
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,759
this one. Like I understand why my employer wants to

454
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:03,039
make sure that it's a two way street. Like they're

455
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:06,000
gonna compensate me with a contract. That's God, I don't

456
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,119
even have the numbers in front of me.

457
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:07,519
Speaker 3: What what is it?

458
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 2: What will his starting salary be depending on a twenty

459
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,200
five percent cap.

460
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: If he gets like the full twenty five percent match yeah,

461
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,440
the full kick. Yeah, so that's forty two point six

462
00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:20,240
million or forty two point five.

463
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 2: I mean, look, my boy, are just gonna pay me

464
00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:25,920
over forty million. Perhaps I should also have the self awareness.

465
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:27,920
And I'm not saying Chet doesn't, by the way, he

466
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:31,000
might have uh to know. Oh yeah, I haven't been

467
00:22:31,079 --> 00:22:35,920
very available. It's funny though, because someone asked me about

468
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,839
a year ago why there is a deadline on the

469
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,400
rookie extensions before like the start of a season, And

470
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,000
I found that interesting, like because you're basically saying, oh,

471
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,079
now you have to gamble, Like there's this deadline coming up.

472
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,119
Why shouldn't you be able to actually extend with your

473
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,480
rookie contract player like deep into the fourth year of

474
00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:56,039
their season.

475
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 1: That's interesting, I guess is it for transactional purposes because

476
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,400
it's if you sign the extension, you know you're poison

477
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,799
build and can't really be traded.

478
00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:09,279
Speaker 2: But why not make that up to the team, Like

479
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,000
the teams would be aware of that if they're willing

480
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:14,759
to just do that, why not make it open minded

481
00:23:14,799 --> 00:23:17,480
and say, Okay, look, if you can sign this dude

482
00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:21,119
to an extend to a rookie extension in late December,

483
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,079
if you want to, that's fine. Just know that comes

484
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,039
with the consequence that you can't trade him for X

485
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:26,640
amount of time.

486
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: I honestly think it's set up to be more friendly

487
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:32,319
to the teams because the thinking might be, are you

488
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,599
able to get some concessions where if you're giving it

489
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,240
to them that early. Ohka as an instance, has it's

490
00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:41,000
become more of a trend where these five year like

491
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,119
max deals, they don't have player options at the end

492
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,480
of them for those coming off their rookie scale. Like,

493
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,400
I think it's set up so that the teams say, hey,

494
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,480
we're locking you into this a year before we have to,

495
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,119
will you give us a little less? Can we take

496
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,319
the player option off the backhand? I really do think

497
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,880
that that's part of it. But that's an interesting question.

498
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,839
I've never given it much thought. I need to get

499
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,680
Keith Smith on it. Yeah, on all the ends.

500
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 3: We need to ask Keith for sure.

501
00:24:03,079 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: One more extension candidate. Well, there's actually a few, but

502
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:07,880
only one we're going to talk about. Lou Dort who

503
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,359
moret Look, it feels like objectively he's been around forever,

504
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,519
he's eligible for a three year eighty two point seven.

505
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,039
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I remember him from the seventies.

506
00:24:18,079 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: Come on, well if he if his three year extension

507
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,119
would be eighty two point seven million, it would run

508
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,799
through that's the max. Anyway, it would run through twenty

509
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,759
nine to thirty at the He'll be thirty in that season.

510
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:31,640
It feels like he should be fifty. I don't know

511
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,920
if it's just because he's the longest tenured Thunder player

512
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,440
and they've gone through so many different sort of like

513
00:24:36,559 --> 00:24:39,559
mini cycles with him, But every time I see his age,

514
00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:42,160
I'm like, how is he still How's this dude still

515
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:42,720
so young?

516
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah?

517
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 1: And do you remember the the reaction to when he

518
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,839
signed the current extension that he's on here. People thought

519
00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:50,799
it was an overpay and now he's like heels like

520
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,759
one of they're more reliable shooters in the NBA finals.

521
00:24:53,759 --> 00:24:56,240
And I still think his defense just like the job

522
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:59,880
description of hey, go erase that star from existence basically

523
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,599
is just not appreciated enough. But I would you extend him,

524
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:07,079
like we're talking about fourteen percent of the salary cap

525
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,359
in year one and it goes down from there or

526
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,000
are you just knowing what we're gonna talk about a

527
00:25:12,039 --> 00:25:14,000
little bit? Are you trying to keep as many options open?

528
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,599
Just like right, let's see, I mean he could still

529
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,759
be traded after signing that extension too, not, I.

530
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: Mean he could, yeah, because that doesn't exceed a twenty

531
00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:21,319
percent bump.

532
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,079
Speaker 3: Right, Uh? Yeah?

533
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 1: No, And honestly, but no, that would be I'm pretty

534
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,039
sure that it does exceed a twenty percent bump. It's

535
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,839
just that like, couldn't you just be traded six months later?

536
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,279
When like, if you just lock him down, he can

537
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,599
be traded six months later, which might get you before that, I.

538
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: Mean regard I know it's only six months. Okay, so

539
00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:39,039
it's let's see what would that Oh it's three year?

540
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,200
My bad, I read it as four years eighty two. Yeah,

541
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,559
all right, no, I get it.

542
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: Sorry. Yes, My question would be one, if you're the Thunder,

543
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:50,720
you offering that extension? And two, if you're a flut order,

544
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,400
are you signing it?

545
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? Three years eighty two or eighty three? Almost? Yeah? Yeah,

546
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,319
yeah you are. I love Door. I think you are. Yeah.

547
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 1: So you're saying he signs it? Would you offer it

548
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,759
as the Thunder?

549
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:08,519
Speaker 2: I I probably hackle a little bit, Like I'm not

550
00:26:08,599 --> 00:26:11,880
gonna hackle to a point where I'm, you know, gonna

551
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,160
aggregate aggravate him.

552
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,279
Speaker 3: That's for damn sure I do. Because I think you

553
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:17,559
hit it right on the head.

554
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: He is a you know, he's the type of guy

555
00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:21,920
you want in the playoffs specifically, Like I know you

556
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,599
have Greuz so I know you have case On Wallace.

557
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,000
I know that, but like you need a guy like

558
00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:28,839
him who is just you know, he can guard one

559
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:31,759
through three. I feel like he's just such a bulldog.

560
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:36,119
I would like to see perhaps a little bit more

561
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,119
friendly deal than that. And the absolute max of what

562
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,759
he can sign, but three for sev Yeah, that was

563
00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:44,279
the number.

564
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: Yep, same page. I'd probably just offer it because I

565
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,559
think you can because you can make the case that's

566
00:26:49,559 --> 00:26:52,759
saying if like, in a situation where tyres Halburton goes

567
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:55,799
down in game seven, like, is lou Door theoretically a

568
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:58,559
little bit less valuable because you don't need him to

569
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,920
like Okay, nemhard like, you're not worried about those guys

570
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,359
in the same way. So if a team doesn't have

571
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,519
that player, lou Dort's less valuable, But the teams that

572
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:09,160
you're gonna need to beat predominantly are gonna have that player.

573
00:27:09,519 --> 00:27:11,559
So I think I'm offering it. If you want to haggle,

574
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:13,599
that's fine, the vibes are good. Maybe he's just taken

575
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,400
whatever U But I think you could also make the

576
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,640
case that because that contract would run through his age

577
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,440
thirty season, that his trade value just increases on it.

578
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 3: Imagine if he takes three years sixty.

579
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,079
Speaker 1: So you're mentioning the chet stuff before, and then like

580
00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:32,000
if you get lou Dort for three years and sixty

581
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:34,319
or something, there's just gonna be people that are like,

582
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:37,759
so annoyed by the thunder. It's such the reactions will

583
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:40,400
be hysterical. They like image Shay is just like, yeah,

584
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,200
I don't really want the Supermax. Just give me like

585
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,200
the regular thirty percent Max or something. I want that

586
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,160
to happen, not for players to make less money, but

587
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,759
I think that the reactions would just be absolutely hilarious.

588
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: Right, And also, like, again, we also have to acknowledge

589
00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:54,279
that's still a lot of money.

590
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:56,279
Speaker 3: That's twenty million a year to.

591
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,519
Speaker 1: Be fair though, and I know that Brian to Porik

592
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:00,359
has said this a lot, and I know you've said

593
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,200
it a lot, Like we've yet to see yeah, okay,

594
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,839
it's so much money at some point it doesn't make

595
00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:08,240
a difference. We've yet to see the player who just goes, yeah,

596
00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:10,880
that's you're right, Like it's I'm just gonna whatever. You like,

597
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:17,039
that's a really good point. I got nothing there. So

598
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:20,200
we've had we have one player then, because like we didn't,

599
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,079
and even his is like insane because there's a chance

600
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,000
that he's just gonna be like the Knicks's fourth highest

601
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,200
paid player after next season, depending on what happens with

602
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,880
mckel bridges. But like we've yet to see that become

603
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,359
a commonality. And Jalen Brunton's interesting because like his stardom

604
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,960
wasn't guaranteed, like this assent was kind of towards the

605
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,200
end of his Mavericks tenure and then but like we've

606
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:41,480
yet to see like Lebron took a pack and again

607
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:43,920
he took less. So not making fun of Lebron specifically,

608
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,440
but this pay cut that he took was just over exaggerated,

609
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,480
the same way it was back in twenty ten when

610
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,559
he left Cleveland in the first place. So I'm I'm

611
00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:54,920
wondering if like you're right, like what we see the

612
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,880
player like lou Dort, it's so much money or even

613
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,400
you know, we just talked about this with the Kevin

614
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,839
Durant trade. He's two years, one hundred and twenty plus million.

615
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,359
Is there any chance that he's just like, nah, I'm

616
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,279
good with two for eighty he said, you mentioned that'll

617
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:08,119
take him past half a billion dollars in an NBA

618
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,759
salary right in his career.

619
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,759
Speaker 2: And like you if you're being honest about it as well,

620
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:16,160
for lou Dort, you know, he gives you the defense, obviously,

621
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,200
he gives you the three point shooting, but he isn't

622
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,599
doing as you know, as I hate to say as much,

623
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,279
but like you know that he's a complimentary player. You know,

624
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,680
remember the year where he was like having to both

625
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,279
defend at a high level also score seventeen points per game,

626
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:32,200
and he was like super inefficient because he was just

627
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:36,839
overtaxed to like a perverse degree. Now he's been able

628
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,640
to optimize his own skill set, optimize his own role

629
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,680
because he's not asked to score seventeen points per game anymore.

630
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,559
He's asked to defend and take open shots. You know,

631
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,160
a guy like that might say, look sixty million to

632
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,319
do that. Hell, yeah, I'm fine, that's okay. I just

633
00:29:54,359 --> 00:29:57,079
earned eighty was I think the eglastic singing was that

634
00:29:57,079 --> 00:29:59,160
eighty eighty million on the last one.

635
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: I I just so I get the logic. I'm just

636
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:06,400
waiting for it to kind of happen.

637
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

638
00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: Uh, if you're interested to Kendrick Williams, who I assume

639
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,599
we'll get a statue and okay, see at some point

640
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,400
he's extension eligible as well. That would be like his

641
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,359
do you know what his salary would be bumped up

642
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,000
to in a max extension? What ten point four million?

643
00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:26,079
Just so cheap, you might as well just offer it

644
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,119
to see if he signs it.

645
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: It'd be like you don't think he could actually be,

646
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,279
you know, a guy the team he goes. Teams out

647
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:37,079
there have always had interest in him. Remember when at

648
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:39,200
a time when the word was that he would cost

649
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,240
you two first round picks. I'm not saying that anyone

650
00:30:43,319 --> 00:30:45,119
is willing to offer that, but like if they get

651
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:47,440
a first round like a late first round or not

652
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,559
like a late in terms of the first round or

653
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,920
second round, like I'm talking like in years, like if

654
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,279
they could offered like a thirty two draft pick first round.

655
00:30:57,119 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: Or for what about a swap so that the Knicks

656
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,359
could get him thirty two spot for Kenrich Williams, who

657
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,680
could play center or power forward for them. That's how

658
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,640
much value I assigned to Williams. I would say, I

659
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,000
think k will Is or Kenny Hustle is too important

660
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,920
to the culture. But I'm also kind of wondering if

661
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:17,839
j will Big John Williams, who's also extension as well,

662
00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:19,519
by the way, Yeah, I'm wondering if he's sort of

663
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:23,759
like the custodian of that culture after Kenrich Williams. Maybe

664
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:26,359
those are just two guys that stick around because they'll,

665
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,319
you know, the thunderill figure out how to play him accordingly.

666
00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:31,039
But that's I've given some thought to that as to Okay,

667
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:32,640
if you get to a point where you're making a

668
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,759
trade or you really need to start juggling these roster

669
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,400
spots more aggressively, which one of them do you think

670
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,119
would be more likely to go or do you think

671
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:42,519
they would give up like Dylan Jones before j will.

672
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:44,279
Speaker 3: And yeah, oh yeah, they I think they would. I

673
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:46,759
think they will. Yeah yeah. Yeah. By the way, are

674
00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:50,039
we absolutely sure that Jalen Williams.

675
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,799
Speaker 2: Would wouldn't be a bench player on all forty teams

676
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:57,079
because it feels like, for me, whenever he plays starter minutes,

677
00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:00,480
he's just putting up wild numbers or and it is

678
00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:03,559
just all over the place, Like I think he would

679
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,880
start on some teams, and it just makes it that

680
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,559
extra ridiculous that he's just an end of bench guy

681
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,640
for the Thunder.

682
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,799
Speaker 1: He will I don't know, man, what team would he

683
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,640
start on? So you're to your point, though, he would

684
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,920
definitely be a meteor part of I would say half

685
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,079
the league's rotation is just sort of a backup as

686
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:25,400
someone who's just this enforcer type, but will also take threes.

687
00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what, that's actually fair.

688
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: I'm going through the list right now that maybe that's

689
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,319
putting it to too.

690
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,359
Speaker 3: Aggressively that he was saying.

691
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: You also have to wonder at some point for him specifically,

692
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,960
because he's made so little, does unless they're gonna give

693
00:32:40,039 --> 00:32:42,359
him like backup big type money and pay him accordingly,

694
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:43,839
which they would have the flexibility to do for a

695
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:45,759
little bit, does he ever get to a point where

696
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:48,839
he actively wants to just be somewhere else because more

697
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,960
prominent role would probably equal more earning potential. That is,

698
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,359
some things that they could run into as of right now,

699
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,079
like Jalen Williams is like Jay will That's probably the

700
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:00,359
only one where it's an issue. You'll eventually have that

701
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,519
maybe with Cason Wallace or maybe with an AJ Mitchell.

702
00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:06,279
We don't know. Nicole Topic is just sitting on this

703
00:33:06,319 --> 00:33:06,920
team as well.

704
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, so another non shooter by the way.

705
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: Uh for now, for now, So here's the question more

706
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:18,759
and I'm just gonna throw a couple numbers at you

707
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:20,279
to back up why I actually think that the thunder

708
00:33:20,359 --> 00:33:22,319
can't not that they can't afford to, but I'm not

709
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,000
completely running it back as tough as it would be.

710
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:27,960
You could. You just won the title. You make no apologies,

711
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,039
you do you, but like the offense still seems to

712
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:33,839
have some cracks in it. They were below average three

713
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:36,680
point shooting team for both volume and efficiency during the

714
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,599
playoffs slightly, but still got pretty ugly at points during

715
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:42,640
the finals. Their half court efficiency for the playoffs mort

716
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:46,160
dropped by seven point two points per one hundred plays. Yeah,

717
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,720
the league average drop was two point one points per

718
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:52,039
one hundred plays relative to the regular season. You have

719
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:55,079
shake gilges Alexander on your team. That's a little horrifying.

720
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,839
I know they faced some tough defenses, including Indiana's own.

721
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,440
That pressure's insane, but I think that their goal and

722
00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:04,400
it sounds ridiculous because you mentioned so Kobe White as

723
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,000
an example, since now would be the time to get

724
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,320
into targets. I think they need a shooter or someone

725
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,639
who else who can generate some offense that actually cracks

726
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,320
their playoff rotation. And I'm not saying they need to

727
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,320
be in the closing lineup, but what gives me pause

728
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,360
about Kobe White, who I believe would be a good

729
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,719
fit for this team. Want to make that clear is

730
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,559
I think you at least want them to have more

731
00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:26,559
size than that so that there is a chance of

732
00:34:26,599 --> 00:34:30,000
them being in the closing lineup. Because while I'm sure

733
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,000
it would happen, I don't think in a playoff game

734
00:34:33,079 --> 00:34:36,119
or an NBA Finals game that you're closing with Jaylen Williams,

735
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,719
Kobe White and shake Gil just Alexander maybe yeah, but

736
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,199
I just don't see it, and so I would gravitate

737
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,559
more towards I think Cam Johnson is the name that

738
00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:47,679
everybody will throw out there. I'm wondering we call it

739
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,280
around these parts the thunder have choose your own adventure assets,

740
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,719
Like what does it take you get Trey Murphy out

741
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,360
of New Orleans?

742
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: I mean, look, if Trey Murphy is one of those

743
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,360
players who you can get because you just keep throwing

744
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,159
assets the way of New Orleans, and it's Joe Dumar's

745
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:06,679
you know, heading that team now, so you probably won't

746
00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:09,480
have to give up too much. As I recall it,

747
00:35:09,519 --> 00:35:13,639
even though Joe built that championship team in Detroit, there

748
00:35:13,679 --> 00:35:18,119
are some shortcomings there. If you can get Trey Murphy, yes,

749
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,960
I would take him over Kobe White. The reason I've

750
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,679
outlined White specifically was because of next to your salary slot,

751
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,280
because he's so easy to get him in there. But

752
00:35:29,639 --> 00:35:32,960
you're absolutely right, Trey Murphy would crack the closing lineup.

753
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,360
He would be, you know, a full time starter, I

754
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,559
presume on this team like that. What would be the

755
00:35:38,559 --> 00:35:44,360
starting lineup there, Shay Dort, Jalen, Trey, Chad Jesus.

756
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:45,199
Speaker 3: Yeah.

757
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: At that point, though, to your point, you run into

758
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,400
this issue with Kobe White beyond next season, but for

759
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,440
next season specifically, are you running into some salary And

760
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,079
you'd probably be fine for a season, but like the

761
00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:57,480
salary crunch would hit faster and harder if you get

762
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:00,400
someone like Trey who's on that nine figure tension.

763
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,519
Speaker 2: Well, at least what you're getting, you know what you're

764
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:04,599
getting with Trey, you don't know with Kobe. I mean

765
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:06,719
that's that's you know, you don't know the salary that

766
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,480
Kobe White is gonna get. So at least with Trey,

767
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:13,599
that is a level of predictability that is nice to have.

768
00:36:14,119 --> 00:36:19,280
And he's also fairly like modestly compensated, like his his

769
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:22,119
cap percentage this year is going to be sixteen point

770
00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:24,440
two percent, and it's gonna drop down all the way

771
00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:28,159
to fifteen point one in twenty eight twenty nine, that

772
00:36:28,199 --> 00:36:30,039
those are very manageable numbers.

773
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:33,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean I think that he might

774
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:36,079
be the single most untouchable player in New Orleans, which

775
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:38,760
is why it's the Thunder, don't you know. Look how

776
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,000
they got Alex Caruso. They didn't give up a single

777
00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:43,320
first round pick, So I right, you know, but I'd

778
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,519
be curious, like, would Detroit with Detroit would but Detroit

779
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:48,920
listen if the Thunder round would.

780
00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 3: They'd they'd be confused when you make that call. But sure, is.

781
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: There any other like kind of offensive players with some

782
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,039
size not in the star range that come to mind?

783
00:36:58,039 --> 00:37:01,079
As Okay, they might make some sense here because it

784
00:37:01,079 --> 00:37:03,719
seems like it's weird that the Thunder might want that

785
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,519
archetype of player where it's like one of the most

786
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:07,800
sought after archetype. It was someone who could shoot and

787
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,159
have size and won't torpedo our defense, right.

788
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: I think Murphy and White or two of the best

789
00:37:14,079 --> 00:37:16,679
names like Infrey Simon's is a guy that I brought

790
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,760
up in context with the Thunder before that was before

791
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,159
they signed Issia Hartenstein though, So I was hoping they

792
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,079
would basically just try to trade for him into cap space.

793
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,599
Last summer, he's earning a ton of money, but it's

794
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:35,079
not necessarily that long term anymore. Right, Like he feels

795
00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:38,480
like his contract, they're about to make a call on that, right,

796
00:37:39,159 --> 00:37:43,440
Let's see, Yeah, he's an expiring contract after this Like

797
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,719
this year he enters US as an expiring contract twenty

798
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,000
seven point six million, he's extension eligible. Like, if you

799
00:37:49,039 --> 00:37:51,559
trade for him, could you actually give him long term

800
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:55,440
money that's less than the current compensation level. I wouldn't

801
00:37:55,519 --> 00:37:58,159
rule that out. The question is, though, does he crack

802
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,480
your you know, your your rotation, your end of game rotation.

803
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,039
Speaker 1: Again, Now we would run into this. I think I'd

804
00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:08,280
probably prefer Kobe White over Anthony Simon's just.

805
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: Actually I would too, And I would also go Trey

806
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:13,480
Murphy over both of them because of the size advantage.

807
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: Would and this he's still on his rookie scale. He's

808
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,599
extension eligible. Though, does o chaiak Baji do enough?

809
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: I don't think that does enough. He's interesting. I'm surprised

810
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,239
that while we're on the subject of the Blazer, she

811
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,199
didn't bring up Toomani Kamara there like that.

812
00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: I want like more bankable shooting, and I think, yeah,

813
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:37,320
I mean Tomay shot the ball while the past two seasons.

814
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,480
But that's like he honestly feels like he might be

815
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,880
more untouchable than Shane sharp It Scoot Henderson at this

816
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:42,880
point on certain days.

817
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 2: But like if you could get like defensively, you know

818
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:49,239
immediately he would just be that. I mean that you

819
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:55,800
would actually improve theoretically defensive, which is such an absurd thought,

820
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,159
Like you let the league in defense, you might get

821
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:01,920
even better. Like if he becomes a forty three point

822
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,400
shooter and he can actually help his volume, wouldn't hate that?

823
00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:07,119
Like you don't because you don't need a guy like

824
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:09,280
Trey Murphy average twenty one this year. That's not what

825
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,840
you need. You don't need a guy who comes in.

826
00:39:11,199 --> 00:39:13,880
And like there's also this thing where even if you

827
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,239
bring in this Trey Murphy, like would he be a

828
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,559
little bit pod at the end of the year because

829
00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:23,039
he went from twenty one to like thirteen or fourteen points.

830
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:26,000
Because like we have to remember there are going to

831
00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:28,639
be players already established who are going to be looking

832
00:39:28,639 --> 00:39:32,800
for shots, like chaed Jalen Shay Obviously, Like I don't

833
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,360
think you can expect Trey Murphy to come in and

834
00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:38,920
just say, oh yeah, I'll relinquish seven eight points per game.

835
00:39:41,519 --> 00:39:43,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean he's already been paid though, so I

836
00:39:43,519 --> 00:39:45,559
think he might be okay.

837
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: Also, if I workload while I get my money, well.

838
00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: If you're I just feel like by osmosis, he would

839
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,320
just integrate into this team's culture and would just like

840
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,719
you know, take over their ethos. But yeah, that that

841
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,800
is a good concern or of valor concern. What about again,

842
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,840
I keep brought these players are a little bit smaller,

843
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,679
but you talk about cost control. Theoretically he will be

844
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,719
up for a new deal. But Austin Reeves, was that

845
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,920
not not enough shooting for you?

846
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:14,159
Speaker 4: No?

847
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,559
Speaker 3: I mean he's not a wing like he's a guard.

848
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:19,239
He's a guard.

849
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the Murphy's really the only he's the only

850
00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:25,119
name that we've dropped that would be of wing.

851
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 2: I don't hate it, like if he if he went

852
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,280
into that situation and was like, oh yeah, I'm just

853
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,639
gonna kind of weave myself into the fabric of this

854
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:34,840
identity of a team.

855
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,559
Speaker 3: Fuck yeah, I mean, then that's the best name out there. Now.

856
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 2: The question is what's the compensation level or not the compensation,

857
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,000
what's what's the trade?

858
00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:46,199
Speaker 3: Rather? Right?

859
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: I mean it's probably because I mean maybe the Lakers

860
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,079
would want some of the stuff that the Thunder would

861
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:52,039
be prepared, like something built around would you want to

862
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:54,360
get rid of Hartenstein in that deal? Then you have

863
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:55,960
to open it up to other things. But yeah, it

864
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,440
would probably be. It feels like it'd be part of

865
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,239
a three or four team trade that they're just kind

866
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:06,199
of getting in on. What about like a Max Struz

867
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,840
or a DeAndre Hunter with Cleveland being in sort of

868
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,000
like that financial crunch.

869
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's funny you bring up Cleveland. I would

870
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:14,440
be a one Hunter.

871
00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: But don't you think that the Calves right now as

872
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,519
they're looking at Milwaukee where Dame went down with Anquele's injuries,

873
00:41:21,519 --> 00:41:24,719
They're looking at Indiana where Halley went down with Anekuilas injuries.

874
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,079
They're looking at Boston but Tatum when going down with

875
00:41:27,079 --> 00:41:30,000
an Quilo's injury, and they're going, oh my god, our

876
00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:32,760
path to the finals next year is wide fucking open.

877
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: I'm sure there, I'm sure Orlando and the Knicks are

878
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,039
saying the same thing.

879
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would probably lean towards Cleveland maybe having the

880
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,039
best upside of those teams so far.

881
00:41:45,079 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 1: But do you view either one of those guys as

882
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,800
more important than bringing back Ti Jerome? So I don't

883
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,039
think they bring back to They're already like thirteen million

884
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:57,280
bucks into the second apron. I don't think they're gonna

885
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,199
sign Ti Jerome for like twelve or fourteen million year

886
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:00,920
whatever it ends up being.

887
00:42:01,199 --> 00:42:02,519
Speaker 3: They're not far into it.

888
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: I yeah, I do think that not Struce. Hunter is

889
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,760
a guy who I think is more important than Tiderome.

890
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:13,079
Speaker 1: Yes, so what do you think Hunter is more important

891
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:14,880
than Tideram you said so it would be Struce is

892
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,599
the I mean that he'd be a really good fit

893
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,320
on Okay, way, Yeah, here's a name that I can't

894
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,920
believe it wasn't one of the first ones. But they

895
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,880
have the assets to get I'm I'd be curious about

896
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,440
the outgoing money and all that. Imagine if this is

897
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,559
the Derek White team.

898
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 3: You keep going guard Huh.

899
00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: He's like you can scale him up to the wings

900
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,880
a little bit, like more so than a Reeves or

901
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,360
a Kobe White or an Anthony Simon's That's true.

902
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:40,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, ironically, Kobe's actually taller.

903
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: Again, do you want Kobe White defending like threes or fours.

904
00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:46,480
Though the answer to that would be.

905
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,599
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't I wouldn't hate it, but it's

906
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,239
I'm not like super enthused, Like I get it, and

907
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,239
I see the logic of bringing in a Derek White

908
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,440
like also championship pedigree, all that jazz, right, I kind

909
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,559
of want someone who's a little bit more dynamic.

910
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,039
Speaker 1: All right, I don't know, I'm not sure we've named

911
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,320
what did you say dynamic defensively?

912
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: That's what you say offensively offensively.

913
00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: I think Kobe White would check that box. That's the

914
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,360
other thing though, was like when you're talking about trying

915
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,119
to make sure that you get Chet and j Dub

916
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,480
all these ample touches. I think Trey Murphy is probably

917
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:27,320
a little bit like he kind of straddles the two lines.

918
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,159
I don't know, you want him doing too much offensively,

919
00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:31,679
but he's capable of bit more. I think Derek White's

920
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:33,679
a little bit more dynamic offensively than your credit. Like

921
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,039
I would prefer him on this team to like Anthony

922
00:43:36,039 --> 00:43:38,440
Simons or even Kobe White when you're factory and the

923
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:39,280
total packages.

924
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: That's that's probably fair. I maybe it's just because when

925
00:43:43,039 --> 00:43:45,639
I think of Boston. I don't think of like one

926
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,480
guy who just jacks up everything and it But you're right,

927
00:43:48,599 --> 00:43:50,880
like his three point rat is uprageous.

928
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:54,599
Speaker 1: It's fair, though his money's about to be not outrageous.

929
00:43:54,639 --> 00:43:56,440
But that would be a tougher because what is Trey

930
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,440
Murphy making.

931
00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 2: Twenty Let me see, I think it was twenty five

932
00:44:01,519 --> 00:44:03,679
this year or next year rather.

933
00:44:03,639 --> 00:44:06,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, Derek White's about to be bumped up too, isn't

934
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,960
he in the thirties? He's at like thirty or he's

935
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,039
at twenty seven eight and then he's at thirty.

936
00:44:11,079 --> 00:44:11,119
Speaker 3: Me.

937
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,639
Speaker 2: Look, Trey Murphy so far is the best name we've

938
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:16,119
come up with. There's no question there.

939
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:18,599
Speaker 1: Oh who costs more? Like who has more trade value?

940
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:19,760
Derek White or Trey Murphy?

941
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,039
Speaker 3: Trey Murphy.

942
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,519
Speaker 2: Just because younger size, I mean, yeah, absolutely.

943
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,559
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, I guess Derek White's a little older.

944
00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:31,320
He's clearly the better player to me though, when you

945
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,280
look at everything he's capable of defensively, so I think

946
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,480
i'd probably lean Derek White has more trade value to me.

947
00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:35,960
Right now?

948
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,159
Speaker 2: Is there a player who, like Trey Murphy has kind

949
00:44:40,159 --> 00:44:43,840
of just signed his rookie extension or this is the

950
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,079
year it kicks in or whatever where you're looking at

951
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:49,800
that compensation level and you're going, oh, that's pretty that's

952
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,079
pretty great. That's team friendly. Let's get in on that. Like,

953
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,000
is there a team out there with a guy.

954
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 1: Who So he's not Kim No, I actually think the

955
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:02,760
closest that you would come. And he only has two

956
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,079
years left on his contract and he's older, but like

957
00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:08,159
Cam Johnson, the money is declining and it's in the

958
00:45:08,199 --> 00:45:11,519
early twenties, right, I'll double check that, so you get

959
00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:13,119
two years of kind of all right, we know what

960
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:15,440
this is. And then at that point, I mean, he's

961
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,320
gonna be in his thirties though, so like, would he

962
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,760
cost that much? Oh, and it's not. I'm sorry, it's

963
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,719
declining next season, but goes up to twenty two and

964
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,960
a half in twenty six, twenty seven. But that's still

965
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,320
that's a maginable number you could work around, which I

966
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,960
think is why people you talk about size. I think

967
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,519
that's why people he's the one that you mentioned, and

968
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:32,559
he's also you know, we're talking about Trey Murphy and

969
00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:36,159
Derek White. Cam Johnson's gonna cost you fewer assets, and

970
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:38,119
we know that the nets aren't gonna view him as

971
00:45:39,159 --> 00:45:43,599
as much of a long term core member as Boston

972
00:45:43,679 --> 00:45:46,039
Mite with Derek White or New Orleans with Trey Murphy.

973
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,679
Speaker 3: All Right, I have a fucked up name for you then,

974
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,639
But here's the thing. He will be.

975
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:54,159
Speaker 2: He's already extension eligible, so like you will have to

976
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,880
deal with like the rookie extension stuff this summer and

977
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:01,320
or potentially having him going to strict free agency next year.

978
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,920
But he might actually fit what we're talking about. And

979
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,679
you have been telling me that it would be nice

980
00:46:07,679 --> 00:46:14,039
to see him elsewhere to Bartie Smith, just where the.

981
00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: So are you getting? So j Will is never going

982
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,239
to play again at that point?

983
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,519
Speaker 3: Right? Probably not? I just feel size though.

984
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 2: That's a six eleven power forward who is just launching

985
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:33,440
from the outside and giving you optimized spacing. Right, Is

986
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:37,119
this the team that would just kind of streamline his

987
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:38,760
role moving forward?

988
00:46:40,079 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I'd be curious if, like, is he capable of

989
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,599
scaling down that much? Like he has the outside shot,

990
00:46:45,639 --> 00:46:47,280
but he's still and they scaled down a pretty good

991
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,320
amount in Houston. That's interesting.

992
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 3: He took nine point nine shots per game this year

993
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,840
at thirty minutes, what was it?

994
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: Three point at tenth rate four.

995
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: Point nine, so that will have to be like, he

996
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,360
can still take ten shots per game, he just needs

997
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,920
to make sure that most of them are threes.

998
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: That'd be an interesting name. I just don't think that

999
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,840
he's an established enough offensive commodity for them to say, hey,

1000
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,840
this would be like if you get a Cam Johnson

1001
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,920
or Trey Murphy or Derek White or something like, you know, Okay,

1002
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,440
this is what we're gonna get from them offensively. And

1003
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,679
then Jabari Smith still has a bit of the wildcard

1004
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,079
status in there. That's an interesting name. Could you imagine

1005
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:24,559
they just have all these so they would have Jabbari

1006
00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:27,519
Chet and Jatombs like these rookies that she got.

1007
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 2: That'd be so wild I want do you trust Tarry

1008
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,199
Easton's three so far?

1009
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: Because defensively, good lord, he would just fit in.

1010
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: Like yeah, but they don't need Yeah, I don't know

1011
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,960
if I trust Tarry Easton's Could you watch someone who

1012
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,760
And that's the problem with when you get to Jabbari,

1013
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:47,679
when you get to Tari Easton, when you get to

1014
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,599
some of these, like the volume I think needs to

1015
00:47:49,639 --> 00:47:52,000
be not oh we're gonna bump up their volume. It

1016
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:55,360
needs to be more of a pre existing assets. This

1017
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,519
player's shown he will he will get up more threes.

1018
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,320
I also does Houston look to move I guess because

1019
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,000
of the extension, maybe they would, but like they didn't

1020
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,760
give him up in the KD talks. But they do

1021
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,519
have Steven Adams, they have Alpi, they have Tary Eason.

1022
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,440
So does Cam Whitmore? Should they be going after Cam Whitmore?

1023
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 3: Cam would be fun? Cam would be really fun.

1024
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: He's got legit size six seven, like two twenty five

1025
00:48:20,159 --> 00:48:21,159
athletic as fuck.

1026
00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:23,679
Speaker 1: Talk about wild cards though, right, yeah.

1027
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,679
Speaker 2: No, like at least the pre existing numbers exist, he's

1028
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:28,639
getting them up there.

1029
00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:32,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't hate that as an experiment.

1030
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,679
I'd be curious as to Like, again, you probably want

1031
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:36,320
something that's a little bit more bankable. But he would

1032
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,639
also fit the thunder model of oh, like, no, we're

1033
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:42,679
gonna this might not be the name that everyone identified

1034
00:48:42,679 --> 00:48:44,360
for us, but we're gonna get this. May it work

1035
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,239
and he'll just get better under there.

1036
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 3: If only Lauri Marknon didn't make as much money that he.

1037
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: Does, right, oh my god, he would have been on

1038
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,400
that previous contract. Well, that was the target everyone wanted

1039
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:58,960
them to go after. Last year. Do you remember was

1040
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,840
Larry markinen as a one year rental? Harrison Barnes like

1041
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:06,719
that could be someone that helps you a little bit,

1042
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,800
but that's just a little uninspiring to me.

1043
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:12,639
Speaker 2: It's uninspiring, but it's not a bad idea, Like he'll

1044
00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:16,559
get you those touches. By the way, Devin Massel is

1045
00:49:16,639 --> 00:49:22,159
also like compensated at a very modest level. You'll get

1046
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:26,679
your shots. Defensively, he's not bad. He fits the timeline.

1047
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: That'd be interesting. I wonder what it would costs to

1048
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:34,719
get him, but he's been like he's had some health stuff.

1049
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,840
He's a little bit of a wild card too. There's

1050
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,079
no perfect answer.

1051
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,199
Speaker 2: And san Antonio will just basically have to acknowledge we're

1052
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,920
never going to take another three pointer again.

1053
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,559
Speaker 1: Well, Harrison Barnes will still be there.

1054
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: You're fine, You're good as you can. We can go

1055
00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:51,480
really obscure on this and just go malachite Brenham. Now

1056
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,039
we're down.

1057
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: Well, So that's what I was gonna mention is because

1058
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:57,800
I think you could mentioned the reason we're kind of

1059
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,719
focusing on either medium or higher end options is like

1060
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,840
if you got a Duncan Robinson, if you got when

1061
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,400
insigned with Luke Canard or somebody. Okay, they would bring

1062
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,679
the volume, but like, why would they play more than

1063
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:13,000
Isaiah Joe if Isaiah Joe was still on the roster

1064
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:14,280
As an example.

1065
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: I think that's a fair point. And I think I

1066
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,199
have a name. By the way, Dahn Saint.

1067
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: Evencenzo Dad is fascinating, although the way he shot the

1068
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,760
ball in the playoffsid points this year, maybe it's not

1069
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,079
so fascinating. That would be a good one. Again, we're

1070
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:32,280
just we're just determined to find people who are shorter

1071
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,239
than six six for them though apparently Trey Murphy is

1072
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,559
he the only one we named that? Well, Cam Wentmore,

1073
00:50:38,599 --> 00:50:40,559
but that's the wrong part. Yeah, he's the only one

1074
00:50:40,599 --> 00:50:42,960
that's older sixty six? Right? Who else have we named?

1075
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:43,599
Speaker 3: No?

1076
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 1: Cam Johnson's over sixty six, right and.

1077
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 3: Kim Witmore six to seven?

1078
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can coming back to Trey Murphy or Cam Johnson,

1079
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:51,400
Like those.

1080
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 3: Are Cam Johnson? Sorry he's six ey.

1081
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 1: McHale Bridges doesn't do it right, just not enough offensively.

1082
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 2: I'd mean that three it's just what the hell do

1083
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,320
I do with that three pointer? Like he's gonna change

1084
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:03,639
it again?

1085
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,199
Speaker 3: I don't know. We need someone who can.

1086
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 1: Jub and shay like to get into the mid range.

1087
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,960
Mikel Bridges will do the same thing. What about let's

1088
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,519
just well know his money is too much? Must say,

1089
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:16,840
would you consider o g Annobi? But he just makes

1090
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,199
too much money to fit into the structure of this day.

1091
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 2: I think by process of elimination on this suppose supposed

1092
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,599
twenty minute podcast that has now gone fifty one minutes, Well,

1093
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:28,440
I have I.

1094
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,079
Speaker 1: Have one more name. Okay, one more I don't think

1095
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:35,039
you're gonna like it because you don't seem to like him, Okay, Keegan.

1096
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,199
Speaker 2: Murray, Wait wait, I love Keikan Murray. I'm just I'm

1097
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:39,760
just disappointed.

1098
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,639
Speaker 1: Didn't you say you wouldn't pay him like even mid

1099
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,760
level money? Is what you said on the King's podcast?

1100
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 2: No, I think I said, Oh God, did I say that?

1101
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,480
Was that aggressive? I must have had a bad day.

1102
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:55,320
I not mid level money. I'm not that doubt on him.

1103
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:57,519
I'm not that down on him. But what I've said

1104
00:51:57,639 --> 00:51:59,440
is I want to take him to restrict free agency.

1105
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,239
That's what I say said.

1106
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: That's yeah, So maybe you did say that, And I'm

1107
00:52:03,039 --> 00:52:05,519
just trying to create content here. I'm trying to create

1108
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:06,920
strife so that we can.

1109
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 3: Catch fire with Kings fans.

1110
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 2: Sure, now, if I said that's apologize to Keigan because

1111
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:11,920
that's aggressive.

1112
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,639
Speaker 3: I do like that fit, though, I do like that fit.

1113
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,159
Speaker 2: The thing for me, though, is in his rookie season

1114
00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:22,480
he was leaned into being like the shooter of the bunch,

1115
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:24,480
Like he was supposed to be that guy who just

1116
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,599
knocked down threes and then he wanted to expand his game.

1117
00:52:27,679 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 3: It didn't happen.

1118
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 2: Like, is he open to the idea of just kind

1119
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,400
of saying, Okay, you know what your career is going

1120
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:35,199
to have to change.

1121
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to be a three and D guy.

1122
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:39,239
Speaker 2: You're not going to be that twenty point scorer that

1123
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,440
we all thought you would be, or even that yourself,

1124
00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:44,440
because he kind of alluded to the to that during

1125
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,199
his draft time as well, that he thought he could

1126
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:49,360
be an elite type of scorer. Like, does he have

1127
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,159
the mindset to come in and say, all right, you

1128
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:53,320
know what, fuck it, I'm just gonna launch threes and

1129
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:54,000
play defense.

1130
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,079
Speaker 1: I obviously don't know. He's definitely has the mindset to

1131
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:00,119
play defense. We've seen that specifically over the past two

1132
00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:04,320
years improved I wonder if, like right, I do wonder

1133
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,639
if some of the ones, some of the lineups that's

1134
00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:08,719
the Thunder run that are ultra small. And then if

1135
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,400
you're kind of I don't know who's going out, but

1136
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,360
let's say like Aaron Wiggins is in some way part

1137
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,159
of that deal, does he maybe can he take some

1138
00:53:15,199 --> 00:53:17,320
of those on ball touches that Aaron Wiggins gets to

1139
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:19,360
where the Thunder might be better built to when they

1140
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,519
only have one star like one of j Dubb or

1141
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:23,800
Shay on the court. You could get him some on

1142
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,360
ball reps, but then like he's still firing up threes

1143
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,199
around those like he can take he could be a

1144
00:53:28,679 --> 00:53:33,360
more balanced version and idealized version maybe of Aaron Wiggins

1145
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,280
when you look at his size, when you look at

1146
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,159
his his I mean the defense, Like Aaron Wiggins we

1147
00:53:38,199 --> 00:53:40,440
know can play defense like ke and Murray's taken on

1148
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:43,679
like a like very incredible workload on that end the

1149
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,599
past two years. But I think that that's a if

1150
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,280
what you're saying, if Murray really thinks that there's more

1151
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,119
juice to squeeze out of his offense, then yeah, this

1152
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,920
becomes a but it's also it's also not because like

1153
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,840
they do have. It's you have Shay and you have Jay,

1154
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:02,360
but it's not like anyone else here needs to dominate

1155
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,239
the ball. Maybe that's part of the appeals. You don't

1156
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:05,880
want someone else to come in and do that. But

1157
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,760
I don't think it's unworkable, and that would be that's

1158
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,679
another dice roll though, right, because he's extension eligible as

1159
00:54:12,679 --> 00:54:13,360
we're recording this.

1160
00:54:13,519 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 2: And that's why I would prefer Aaron Wickins because I

1161
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,000
know financially what I'm getting over the next three years, and.

1162
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: Kegan is probably gonna cost you double.

1163
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,199
Speaker 2: And while I like Keegan, I don't like Keegan to

1164
00:54:25,199 --> 00:54:26,360
a point where he's like two.

1165
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 3: Aaron Wickins's.

1166
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,679
Speaker 1: Right, But you're also kind of it's do you yeah,

1167
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,440
but it would be like a trade. So you think

1168
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,000
Trey Murphy is what you're saying, is enough of an

1169
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:37,719
upgrade where you view him as like two of the

1170
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,320
Thunder's rotation players at least at one.

1171
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:40,119
Speaker 3: Pretty much fair.

1172
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:43,159
Speaker 2: I will say we shouldn't close the door on Aaron

1173
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:46,719
Wickins just kind of taking more of a role next year.

1174
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: Oh that's my guy. It's not. I was just using

1175
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,519
it as an example of like a Keegan Murray be

1176
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,719
like the most idealized version of Aaron Wiggins scept taller.

1177
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:57,679
I like the Key and Murray one though, because now

1178
00:54:57,679 --> 00:54:59,800
you don't have to worry about the salary for a year,

1179
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,800
like he's super cost controlled. And then maybe the extension

1180
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,760
is I don't know what it is. Now. If he

1181
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,639
ends up getting like thirty five million dollars a year

1182
00:55:06,639 --> 00:55:09,079
in an extension, then okay, yeah that's problematic, but.

1183
00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 3: Uh whatever, I mean, what team would do that? Though?

1184
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:15,639
Speaker 1: I don't I honestly don't know. I think, like, I

1185
00:55:15,639 --> 00:55:17,760
think the comp for him has been he's gonna get

1186
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,039
Trey Murphy money, maybe a little bit more because of

1187
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:21,880
the way the salary CAP's going. If that's what he's

1188
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,280
gonna sign for, that's not that buys you more time,

1189
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,559
right because he's on a rookie scale right now. Yeah,

1190
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:30,719
and then that deal doesn't start until twenty six.

1191
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:35,679
Speaker 2: God, I mean again, I love Kegan that if he

1192
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:38,480
signs for a deal that pays him for thirty five

1193
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:39,239
million a year.

1194
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 1: No, no, I was saying that Trey Murry, what if

1195
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,800
he gets the Trey Murray deal, maybe a little uch

1196
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,000
Trey Murphy excuse me.

1197
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 2: Trey Murphy deal. Yeah, yeah, all right, I know I can.

1198
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,760
That's still a little too rich for my blood.

1199
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: Really, wow, I think you made you probably did say

1200
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,639
you wouldn't pay the mid level for him. That's where

1201
00:55:53,639 --> 00:55:55,119
I that's where I feel like this is going.

1202
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,079
Speaker 2: I mean again, it's just I need more. I need

1203
00:55:58,119 --> 00:56:02,039
some consistency. He has to sting he can wear. He's

1204
00:56:02,199 --> 00:56:04,880
very affected. It feels like by confidence, like when the

1205
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,800
shot isn't dropping, like he just seems to like become

1206
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,519
hessitant and passive, like you can't can't do that in

1207
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:12,840
today's NBA kind of have a goldfish memory.

1208
00:56:13,599 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 1: Okay, we got Look, we got to give the Pacers

1209
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,719
their flowers. This was just an incredible season from them

1210
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:21,400
at a point where a round Thanksgiving, a lot of people,

1211
00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:24,280
myself included, had kind of written them off. I think

1212
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,280
this will go down as one of the coolest playoff

1213
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,079
runs of all time. You look at all those shots

1214
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:32,079
that Haliburton hit, all those comebacks, the way that they play,

1215
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:35,119
the way they adjusted Rick Carlisle played like twenty five

1216
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:38,440
guys every single night. It was crazy, and they're still

1217
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,719
set up the tyres Haliburton, he tore his right achilles tendon.

1218
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,440
That's gonna have to be a discussion that we're gonna

1219
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,480
get to in a second. But they are still set

1220
00:56:45,519 --> 00:56:49,400
like they have the ability to let this float for

1221
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,760
a few more years if they really believe in this

1222
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,840
core and the functional depth. I think we talked about

1223
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,119
this with the Thunder two, like this is a team

1224
00:56:57,119 --> 00:56:58,920
that I think is very much going to become a

1225
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,519
trendsetter for how teams are trying to, you know, construct themselves.

1226
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,360
We know that they always looked to Okay, NBA champions,

1227
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,000
but what the Pacers specifically have, more so than the

1228
00:57:10,079 --> 00:57:13,400
thunder more so than when the Celtics won. You just

1229
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:19,280
look at it and say, it feels like mirrorable minable

1230
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,360
because it's Okay, Tyre's Haliburton's great, there's no another Tyres Halbert.

1231
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,960
But there's they feel accessible and that's I don't mean

1232
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,320
that as an insult, but that's why I think they

1233
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,360
could become an inspiration for teams that are looking to build.

1234
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,000
But just what are your closing thoughts on the twenty

1235
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:34,280
twenty four twenty five Indiana Pacers.

1236
00:57:35,199 --> 00:57:38,239
Speaker 2: I think they showed a blueprint that works for these

1237
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,719
very small teams, small market teams, because they didn't go

1238
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,199
the route of the Thunder where they had a Brazilian

1239
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,960
draft picks, right, they just decided that every single transaction

1240
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:53,599
that they made was was stellar, was thought through, there

1241
00:57:53,679 --> 00:57:56,639
was logic, there was cohesion, hesion to every single thing

1242
00:57:56,679 --> 00:58:00,920
that they did. So again it's it's one of those

1243
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:05,199
teams that actually seems to look at the margins and go, hey,

1244
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,920
we have to win the margins. We have to make

1245
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:10,800
sure that whatever deal would we make or draft picks

1246
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,519
that we utilized, that we have to get the most

1247
00:58:13,519 --> 00:58:17,320
out of it. So attentions detailed. It's so important in

1248
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,800
stays league, and there's so many teams that just don't

1249
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,559
give a flying fuck about it. The Pacers due and

1250
00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:25,480
s a direct results they found themselves in the finals.

1251
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I just find interesting or

1252
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,920
compelling about this team, with the exception of Tyres Haliburton's acquisition,

1253
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,639
it feels like pretty much every move they made was

1254
00:58:37,679 --> 00:58:41,559
either it came with hefty doses of skepticisms or was

1255
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:46,320
widely panned. Looking at the Siakham trade his contract, how

1256
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,320
many people try to trade Miles Turner, how many people

1257
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,480
lampooned the Obie Topping contract, How many people thought they

1258
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,119
shouldn't have extended Andrew Demhart when they did. How many

1259
00:58:56,119 --> 00:59:00,440
people were like, oh, trade Benedict Mathern already, it just

1260
00:59:00,599 --> 00:59:02,760
you go down ot How many people said that they

1261
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,960
should stop playing TJ McConnell as many minutes in the

1262
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,159
NBA Finals at one point, only one person may have

1263
00:59:08,199 --> 00:59:10,679
said that, and he might be sitting on your screens

1264
00:59:10,719 --> 00:59:14,679
at this very moment. And that's just it's like, I

1265
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:16,840
think that's why they feel so surprising. When you look

1266
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,719
at their vitals and if you watch them for like

1267
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,840
fifty plus games in the regular season, you understood how

1268
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:24,039
good they were. And you and I were on record

1269
00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:26,320
as saying they were the third best team in the

1270
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:28,960
Eastern Conference, like it was we thought it was the Celtics,

1271
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,519
the Cavs and then the Pacers, right, But like I think,

1272
00:59:31,599 --> 00:59:36,159
because there was this ingrained skepticism into basically everyone on

1273
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:40,440
their roster, that probably contributed to them feeling so a surprise.

1274
00:59:40,519 --> 00:59:42,519
Even Aaron nee Smith like, we're like a year and

1275
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:44,239
a half or moved from me being nervous when he

1276
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:47,039
would dribble on drives, and some people wondering whether they

1277
00:59:47,079 --> 00:59:48,960
sold too low on Malcolm Brogden.

1278
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 2: I actually forgot about that, No, I but again that

1279
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,159
that proves how quickly things concern when you're in the

1280
00:59:59,199 --> 01:00:01,800
right environment. Right meee Smith, Right now, I think we

1281
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:03,880
both agree he's a high end starter. We considered him

1282
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:07,800
a high end starter the Obi Tobin contract. While sort

1283
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,400
of expensive, like he just gave them what they needed,

1284
01:00:11,519 --> 01:00:15,199
the scoring, the rebounding, the energy, the ethoticism andry m hard.

1285
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,760
Something just magically happens whenever the date turns from the

1286
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,320
regular season to the playoffs and you want to play

1287
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:26,559
him in the playoffs. Same is as stellar as ever. McConnell, Like,

1288
01:00:26,639 --> 01:00:29,559
if they'd won the game last night, could we have

1289
01:00:29,719 --> 01:00:32,119
argued that he probably should have won finals MVP. I

1290
01:00:32,159 --> 01:00:34,119
don't know, like that would have that would not have

1291
01:00:34,199 --> 01:00:39,400
been that would not have been a bad selection. Matherin's

1292
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,000
right there. They have some upsize and Jarifs Walker, who

1293
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:44,920
unfortunately got injured. Ben Shephard is a guy I like

1294
01:00:45,239 --> 01:00:47,519
imagine if they suddenly get something out of Johnny Furfy

1295
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:51,599
next year and like he becomes a rotation player, like well, yeah,

1296
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:52,320
we'll see.

1297
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:57,079
Speaker 1: Well yeah, they were just a really fun team to watch,

1298
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,960
and I think that even though they didn't win the title,

1299
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:02,920
the fact that they pushed this historically great Thunder team

1300
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,280
when you look at the regular season point differential to

1301
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,480
a game seven while winning just so many come from

1302
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,760
behind games. This is one of those playoff runs where, Okay,

1303
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,639
it didn't end in a title, but it feels like

1304
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:16,280
it will be tattooed to memory for anyone who was

1305
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:17,960
kind of like keeping track of the playoffs, where you

1306
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:22,199
won't forget this Pacers team. What you also won't forget, unfortunately,

1307
01:01:22,599 --> 01:01:25,519
is the tyres haliburt and achilles injury. Everybody knew. I

1308
01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:28,239
hate that. That's I hate that we know it now,

1309
01:01:28,639 --> 01:01:30,960
like I like just when it happens, a player's reaction.

1310
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,400
But he tore his right achilles tendon. That was confirmed

1311
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,400
the day after the finals ended. Next year's likely awash.

1312
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:39,400
He is twenty five at at this moment, but to

1313
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,360
be fairly surprised if he plays again. I will say

1314
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,079
they made the trade to get their own twenty twenty

1315
01:01:45,119 --> 01:01:47,519
six pick back because it saved them a three point

1316
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:50,480
two million dollars salary slot this coming season by giving

1317
01:01:50,559 --> 01:01:53,480
up number twenty three. Having that pick now is a

1318
01:01:53,559 --> 01:01:56,039
huge deal, just because if for some reason you're not

1319
01:01:56,079 --> 01:01:58,480
good or you decide to go through a gap year.

1320
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,840
There's that huge light at the end of the rainbow.

1321
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,360
But I think we're gonna get into I think like

1322
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:08,519
what direction they should go. But I think the important

1323
01:02:08,519 --> 01:02:11,119
thing to remember here is that we can't just view

1324
01:02:11,159 --> 01:02:16,480
this through next season's lens, Like, yes, Tyres Halburton, next

1325
01:02:16,599 --> 01:02:18,719
year's a wash. Do we expect him just to come

1326
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,800
back in twenty twenty six and be like one of

1327
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,760
the very best offensive superstars in the league. I hope.

1328
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,920
So maybe he's young, but like it'll probably take him

1329
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,159
a little while to regain his footing. And so now

1330
01:02:30,199 --> 01:02:32,760
you're talking about, no, you don't punt on twenty six,

1331
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:36,119
twenty seven, but you start to ask questions about Myers.

1332
01:02:36,119 --> 01:02:38,960
Turner's a free agent, like Pascal Siakam is gonna be

1333
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,039
in his like mid thirties ish at that point age

1334
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:44,679
thirty two. I believe like you have to start now.

1335
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:46,920
It's like these uncomfortable questions that you need to start

1336
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,800
asking that you weren't we you and I or at

1337
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:51,960
least I've I've at least talked about it ad nauseum,

1338
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,519
and you're plasick of hearing it, Like just the fleeting

1339
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,880
and for fragile nature of these windows even when you

1340
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,599
don't think they're gonna shut, is just it's absolute insanity.

1341
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:06,119
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I mean, look, I'm I wrote about this

1342
01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:09,719
over dahoo here today, It'll probably be up later. I'm

1343
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,320
perhaps I'm just too emotional about this at this point

1344
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:14,239
because it's so close.

1345
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 3: I'm just like ready to say gap year.

1346
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 2: I don't want to blow this to Smith Reens whatsoever.

1347
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,320
I think this unit has something special, you know, around

1348
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,079
it that said this was a team that said we

1349
01:03:28,159 --> 01:03:29,800
want to go into the tax or we're willing to

1350
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,039
go into the tax to keep miles turnaround. Now you

1351
01:03:33,079 --> 01:03:36,400
have to wonder out loud, are you still open to

1352
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:38,719
doing that? Should you go into the text? Like what

1353
01:03:39,079 --> 01:03:41,800
are there players you might be willing to pivot off

1354
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:43,440
off to save money? Like should you break it will

1355
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,360
be top and perhaps into smaller pieces and then trade

1356
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,800
those out whatever. I want to still maintain the core.

1357
01:03:51,079 --> 01:03:53,719
I'm willing to take like the gap year and then

1358
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,039
the year where he returns where he's probably playing at

1359
01:03:56,079 --> 01:03:58,679
what sixty to seventy percent capacity.

1360
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:03,599
Speaker 3: Because I just I don't want this to end. I

1361
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:04,199
just don't.

1362
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,920
Speaker 2: I think there's something there and they play off of

1363
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,280
one another. So goddamn well, I.

1364
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,559
Speaker 1: Think that's all fair. I'm curious to see if that's

1365
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:14,840
gonna be the reality. And it kind of starts with

1366
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:18,880
Miles Turner is the inflection point. So during the offseason,

1367
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:21,840
the Pacers are about twenty million dollars under the tax,

1368
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:25,119
twenty seven and a half under the first apron only

1369
01:04:25,119 --> 01:04:27,880
eleven players though, and that also does not include new

1370
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,079
deals for Miles Turner or Isaiah Jackson, who also had

1371
01:04:31,119 --> 01:04:33,760
his own achilles injuries this year, and they do is.

1372
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,639
Speaker 3: Just Sorgia House Weisman have that as well, Yeah he did.

1373
01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:38,599
Speaker 1: This is just a really bad year, really bad year

1374
01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:42,280
for Achilles overall, but really bad for Indiana specifically. They

1375
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,519
have all of their own first rounders after twenty twenty

1376
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:46,400
five as well, so they could trade up to four

1377
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,320
this summer if they decided, hey, we're not gap yearing

1378
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,800
it like we're gonna go after somebody. Miles Turner is

1379
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,760
kind of like the first big one though, and so

1380
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:57,320
they did say they were gonna go into the tax

1381
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,360
to re sign him. There's been reports that he could

1382
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,280
command thirty million dollars a year. The Pacers have not

1383
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:06,360
paid the tax since two thousand and five. I guess

1384
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,559
the question is this, do you think what's more likely

1385
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,480
they just pay the tax as planned, they let him walk,

1386
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:16,440
or they resigned him and then someone else becomes collateral

1387
01:05:16,519 --> 01:05:18,159
damage so that they could duct the tax.

1388
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 3: Option P.

1389
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: They let him walk?

1390
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,599
Speaker 2: No option pH is that option? See then where you

1391
01:05:25,719 --> 01:05:27,280
resigned him, would you let someone else?

1392
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 3: Sorry? Bad?

1393
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, wow, I was not expecting that one.

1394
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:32,159
Speaker 3: My mistake.

1395
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 2: You resign him, he's such a core piece. Then you

1396
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,840
figure out who you trained, Like, do you train high

1397
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,239
on Tej McConnell.

1398
01:05:40,039 --> 01:05:43,559
Speaker 4: No, not without Hallie, right, I mean did you just

1399
01:05:43,639 --> 01:05:46,280
kind of say, okay, let's find a stopgap point guard

1400
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,719
on the min market and then run Andrew Nemhars as

1401
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,000
a starting point guard?

1402
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: Man? No, you know what, I don't. This is so

1403
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,239
stupid to say, But you just made the joke that

1404
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,480
could he have been Finals MVP TJ McConn In terms

1405
01:06:00,519 --> 01:06:03,880
of just helping them maintain their offensive identity when it

1406
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,880
comes to pace and understanding like how to change the

1407
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,079
cadence of the way they're playing. I don't think with

1408
01:06:09,239 --> 01:06:12,039
Halibert you can't. I feel like he's like maybe one

1409
01:06:12,079 --> 01:06:14,599
of the three most indispensable players on this team.

1410
01:06:14,679 --> 01:06:19,039
Speaker 2: Now, look, he might be right, but I okay, So

1411
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:20,280
who's the sacrificial lamb?

1412
01:06:21,639 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned like if you believe in Johnny Furfey, Like,

1413
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:28,119
are you looking at are you revisiting the Obie Toppin'

1414
01:06:28,159 --> 01:06:30,760
well again at that point? Or do you just think, Hey,

1415
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:33,639
Benedick Mathren, who we're going to talk about in a minute,

1416
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,519
he's extension eligible, like coming off that rookie scale, Like

1417
01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:39,800
do you consider that? It's? Yeah, I don't like, I don't.

1418
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,079
I guess I don't know where the Obie topping still

1419
01:06:43,079 --> 01:06:46,039
feels like maybe it would be the most likely to

1420
01:06:46,039 --> 01:06:48,559
where it's you're not wiping his salary off the Ledger entirely,

1421
01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:52,960
but you're getting someone who's cheaper. Other than that, it's

1422
01:06:53,239 --> 01:06:56,280
you mentioned TJ McConnell or Benedickmathren. I don't think it,

1423
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,679
like because a Ben Sheppard, even at jaris Walkers, you

1424
01:06:59,679 --> 01:07:01,199
don't know enough about him at this point. But I

1425
01:07:01,239 --> 01:07:03,199
guess if you just took his salary off the books

1426
01:07:03,199 --> 01:07:05,719
and sent him into Brooklyn's cap space, let's say for

1427
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,400
a late first round pick, you could do that. But

1428
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:09,679
that's selling really low on what was the top ten

1429
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,679
pick two years ago, and they like him a lot. Well,

1430
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:15,519
if you do like him a lot, next year is

1431
01:07:15,599 --> 01:07:18,000
gonna be I would assume to some extent of developmental year.

1432
01:07:18,039 --> 01:07:20,000
Maybe that just increases the likelihood that it's topping.

1433
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, because he can play the four.

1434
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,599
Speaker 2: Rick Carlisle told me in Paris that they'd spend a

1435
01:07:26,639 --> 01:07:28,679
lot of time like turning him into a three man

1436
01:07:28,719 --> 01:07:32,679
this year, but naturally he is a four. So if

1437
01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:35,280
you move off top and presumably you have your compro

1438
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:39,760
forward right there in Jeris Walker ready to play frankly

1439
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,440
a shit ton of minutes, I wouldn't hate it, like

1440
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,440
I would also hate giving up op top because I

1441
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,400
actually think he fits this DNA so so well.

1442
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,119
Speaker 1: And he proved like so valuable during the finals to

1443
01:07:50,159 --> 01:07:54,920
them too. He did, so I would propose this that

1444
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,519
you just enter the tax and then you figure it

1445
01:07:57,519 --> 01:08:00,320
out at the trade deadline based off where you are. Yeah,

1446
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,840
because having to make the decision too, because they have

1447
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,039
the entire year to get out of it, and we

1448
01:08:05,079 --> 01:08:07,199
also know that, like you know, you and I can

1449
01:08:07,239 --> 01:08:10,119
mention a gap year, but historically that hasn't necessarily been

1450
01:08:10,159 --> 01:08:13,400
in the Pacers's DNA, Like, this wasn't a roster that

1451
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,479
was assembled around a bunch of top ten picks. So

1452
01:08:17,239 --> 01:08:19,039
I think if you're going to try and be competitive,

1453
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:21,319
go into the tax, and if it turns out it's

1454
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:23,600
not worth it, then you look at the deadline. Because

1455
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,520
when we're talking about the margins here, if Turner costs

1456
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,079
you thirty million, I mean, I guess you're kind of

1457
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:30,640
looking at it right. Let's just say they're thirty they

1458
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:32,960
end up thirty five million into the tax or something.

1459
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:35,840
I mean, not there like fifteen million. Yeah, right, that's

1460
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,880
tough to cut at the trade deadline. I'm not gonna

1461
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,079
lie like that would be. But you have players who

1462
01:08:40,079 --> 01:08:43,199
I guess in theory could fit into like trade exceptions

1463
01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:45,239
or non tax payermid levels if you're really looking to

1464
01:08:46,119 --> 01:08:47,880
duc it. So that could be a little bit harder

1465
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:49,680
than I'm laying it out, but it.

1466
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 3: Does feel like trying to get though.

1467
01:08:52,119 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 1: If he doesn't, it's a lot easier if he gets

1468
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,720
twenty five. I mean that increases your margins for sure.

1469
01:08:57,399 --> 01:08:58,359
Speaker 3: Because what's a number?

1470
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: Can I ask you this, what's a number you would

1471
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:03,600
feel comfortable with saying we can shave off that much

1472
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,199
money at the trade deadline to duck the tax, Like

1473
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:08,399
what's the max number? Like is it ten million?

1474
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 3: Yeah? Like ten to like full and med le money,

1475
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:14,640
which is like fourteen.

1476
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:21,079
Speaker 2: It feels like he does That's that's manageable, right it

1477
01:09:21,119 --> 01:09:23,199
can the market shakes out though.

1478
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: Well, it's also they're not are they traded Anyone who's

1479
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,600
in that price range. Everyone they're trading might not have

1480
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:31,239
a ton of value, but no one's just like, oh,

1481
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:32,920
we don't want that money on.

1482
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:37,319
Speaker 2: Our books, right, So let's let's go into the Miles

1483
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:39,680
Turner stuff just in terms of like the contract, what

1484
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,000
what do you think is a reasonable number if you

1485
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:43,119
can get him below the frety?

1486
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:44,520
Speaker 3: Is it like twenty five?

1487
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 1: Even doesn't like four for one hundred, feel like right.

1488
01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's twenty five even, I'll do that.

1489
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 1: I would do that, but it's would he I don't

1490
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:56,680
know where that money is coming from on the market,

1491
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:01,199
maybe in sign in trade scenarios. But I just think

1492
01:10:01,239 --> 01:10:03,520
his archetype. I know he didn't have like the cleanest

1493
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,039
NBA finals, but his archetype is so difficult to replace,

1494
01:10:07,079 --> 01:10:09,680
and he's not super. He's going into his age twenty

1495
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,640
nine season so at four years, you're running through his

1496
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:16,880
age thirty two season four for one twenty feels like

1497
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,560
that might be what it ends up at. Maybe just

1498
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:20,000
like a flat rate.

1499
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:22,359
Speaker 3: Like thirty straight.

1500
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe you front You could front load the

1501
01:10:25,079 --> 01:10:26,560
first one, but then you're into the tax I don't

1502
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,199
know why you would front you would front load it.

1503
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a little rich. I do think

1504
01:10:33,119 --> 01:10:34,039
that's a little rich.

1505
01:10:34,199 --> 01:10:37,560
Speaker 2: Uh, Like I would I would probably feel most comfortable

1506
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,640
with twenty five and like, if he really puts up

1507
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:44,239
a fight, I could probably go to like four to

1508
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:47,000
one o eight, so twenty seven years.

1509
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I'm probably comfortable with four for one twenty.

1510
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,600
Just that's still under twenty percent of the salary cap.

1511
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:58,600
Speaker 2: And the cap is gonna increase. So I think for me,

1512
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:05,720
the key with here is keep his salary consistent like flat.

1513
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:10,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be not for them because you're going

1514
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,000
through a gap year. If you weren't so deep like

1515
01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:14,960
worrying about the tax it makes sense to front load

1516
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,600
it so that he gets cheaper as you get better.

1517
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,800
But they're just not going to have the flexibility to

1518
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,680
do that. Aaronie Smith extension as will of three years

1519
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,479
sixty four and a half million. That'd be like eight

1520
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,640
point two percent of the salary cap in your year one.

1521
01:11:28,079 --> 01:11:30,000
It would run through his age thirty one season. I

1522
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,000
think if you're the Pacers, you have to offer it,

1523
01:11:32,079 --> 01:11:33,720
right if your niesmith? Are you taking it?

1524
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I am.

1525
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,920
Speaker 2: I think I am because the system is also set

1526
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,159
up for me to be the best version of myself.

1527
01:11:41,159 --> 01:11:43,359
So far, am I sure to get the same role elsewhere?

1528
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:47,119
I'm not really sure? So by taking that deal, yeah,

1529
01:11:47,119 --> 01:11:49,760
I'm up to my seeing my financial flexibility, and I'm

1530
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,560
staying in a place where I have a big role,

1531
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,520
where I get shots, and where I'm vital to the

1532
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,640
team's success. I don't see why he wouldn't.

1533
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if, like, would it makes sense for him

1534
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,800
to wait so that he could just sign a longer

1535
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,000
extension and just lock in more money next summer.

1536
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,319
Speaker 2: I mean sure of what, like what age age would

1537
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:19,760
he be there? Let's see what are we looking at?

1538
01:12:20,119 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: Well, so this one is going to be taking him

1539
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:24,720
through his age thirty one season, so he'd be what

1540
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:26,359
age twenty seven next summer?

1541
01:12:27,399 --> 01:12:30,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's young enough, right to go squeeze it? If

1542
01:12:30,039 --> 01:12:35,760
he wants to. I mean he could. It depends right,

1543
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,560
so I you know what it's it. Actually, it's not

1544
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,600
a bad idea because with Hallie out, presumably shots are

1545
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:44,600
going to have to be distributed differently. There is a

1546
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,199
world wherein the Smith is going to get more shots

1547
01:12:47,359 --> 01:12:50,720
within the flow of the offense next year. That might

1548
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,520
be a perfect stepping stone for him to spread his

1549
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:57,840
wings and then go into the market and say yeah,

1550
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,640
like or like he's extensional ultible of course next year

1551
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:04,239
as well and say look it's it's gotta be more

1552
01:13:04,399 --> 01:13:07,159
or I'm I'm probably I'm out of here, something like,

1553
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:09,079
trade wise whatever.

1554
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,119
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be opposed.

1555
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,039
Speaker 2: To him going into next year and then seek that

1556
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:16,359
additional year and then perhaps being open minded so actually

1557
01:13:16,359 --> 01:13:19,479
going into the twenty twenty seven market as an unrestricted

1558
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:22,319
free agent, depending on how he played that this year

1559
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:23,239
next year.

1560
01:13:23,399 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: The a Benedict Matherin situation is super interesting. He's eligible

1561
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,119
for his rookie scale max would be four years and

1562
01:13:30,119 --> 01:13:32,680
one hundred and ninety four or five years and two

1563
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:34,920
hundred and forty seven. I don't think he's gonna get that.

1564
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:39,439
Those are just reference points. I probably would have bet

1565
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,039
on him going to restricted free agency or at least

1566
01:13:42,079 --> 01:13:44,880
not signing an extension. Now I'm sort of wondering does

1567
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,920
he become more important following the Tyres Haliburton injury that

1568
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,800
they look at trying to get a deal done.

1569
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,520
Speaker 2: Just turned twenty three, like four days ago, super young,

1570
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,039
super athletic, knows how to get to the free throw line.

1571
01:13:58,399 --> 01:14:02,720
The three pointer is the biggest thing for me because

1572
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,880
we know that he's not a playmaker. We know that

1573
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,159
he's not you know what you would call, quote unquote

1574
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,520
an all around guy.

1575
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 3: He's a play finisher.

1576
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:16,079
Speaker 2: Can he lean into that role and just be like

1577
01:14:16,159 --> 01:14:20,359
a super potent scorer and like carry the Pacers next

1578
01:14:20,399 --> 01:14:25,359
year without Halibert if he can, I would pay him

1579
01:14:25,399 --> 01:14:28,680
off that those you know that basis, But I just

1580
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,119
don't know the answer to that question. And because I

1581
01:14:32,159 --> 01:14:35,199
don't know the answer to that question, I would feel

1582
01:14:36,239 --> 01:14:39,960
maybe forced into an extension that I don't feel potentially

1583
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,680
comfortable with, depending on the number, of course, Like what

1584
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:45,880
would you pay him right now based on.

1585
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:46,199
Speaker 3: What we know?

1586
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,239
Speaker 1: It's so I don't still have a great feel for

1587
01:14:49,279 --> 01:14:52,319
what the numbers are on. Not that he's a complete flyer,

1588
01:14:52,399 --> 01:14:57,159
but these unproven, non max guys, and so it's just like,

1589
01:14:57,399 --> 01:14:58,960
is it should that be like a four years and

1590
01:14:59,039 --> 01:15:02,600
eighty situation? Like is that the new sort of just

1591
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,239
like that's the roll the dice. We don't know what

1592
01:15:04,319 --> 01:15:05,000
you're gonna turn it on.

1593
01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:06,600
Speaker 3: I signed him that for eighty.

1594
01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:11,039
Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, I immediately I was still I was thinking,

1595
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:13,239
Jalen Green, is.

1596
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:15,359
Speaker 1: That three years and one hundred and no?

1597
01:15:15,359 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm saying that that's probably the case that

1598
01:15:18,199 --> 01:15:21,279
his team is gonna make, like if they they aren't short,

1599
01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:23,479
then like, okay, then let's give us a shortage term

1600
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:25,520
contract if you aren't really sure about like where we

1601
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:28,279
were going, and then they're gonna use Jalen Green as

1602
01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:33,000
sort of a comparison point. I'm not saying he should

1603
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,279
sign that, Dan, I'm not saying or I'm not saying

1604
01:15:35,319 --> 01:15:36,399
the Pacers should sign that.

1605
01:15:38,319 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: I yeah, I wouldn't. I could you offer him that

1606
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:42,840
if you're the Pacers, what's the what is your number

1607
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:43,159
that year?

1608
01:15:43,319 --> 01:15:43,399
Speaker 3: No?

1609
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:47,560
Speaker 2: I look, I mean I would love eighty over four years.

1610
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,119
I would freaking love that. I think my max personally

1611
01:15:51,159 --> 01:15:53,960
at this stage is four years one hundred.

1612
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:59,520
Speaker 1: I think that still ends up being a decision for them. Yes,

1613
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:01,520
I think you kind of have to try and decide

1614
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:04,279
how but because he could fade in and out of

1615
01:16:04,319 --> 01:16:06,600
the rotation and so like that's not that's still a

1616
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:08,840
number that you don't want that person to still fade

1617
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:10,840
in and out of the rotation. And so you're also

1618
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,720
losing a year of as you continue to try and

1619
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,600
fit him in to the larger ecosystem of the team.

1620
01:16:17,119 --> 01:16:19,880
With Haliburn out, he probably becomes more of a central focus.

1621
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,439
And so like, do you it's just so weird and

1622
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:23,960
I don't have He's one of those players. I don't

1623
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,119
have a great feel for what he would get. I

1624
01:16:27,119 --> 01:16:29,880
don't think I would, you know, flinch at twenty five

1625
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:34,000
million a year. But yeah, oh.

1626
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Green contract. I'm not saying I want that.

1627
01:16:36,239 --> 01:16:38,439
I'm saying that is what his team is going to propose.

1628
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe maybe he gets it, and like that'll

1629
01:16:44,039 --> 01:16:47,039
be some sort of just the proof that well, this

1630
01:16:47,159 --> 01:16:49,439
is just what the market is. They're they're not max players,

1631
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:51,279
but they have value and this is what the market's

1632
01:16:51,319 --> 01:16:53,920
going to be for those archetypes. I will say, if

1633
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,520
they put the jail in green contract on the table,

1634
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,920
I'm signing that. If I'm back lightly. Yeah, even if

1635
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:02,239
it's shorter than I want it to be.

1636
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a tough call as well, Like he's

1637
01:17:06,239 --> 01:17:08,960
started started less than half of the games in his

1638
01:17:09,039 --> 01:17:10,920
career as well, Like I think you have to bake

1639
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:14,960
that in, Like they aren't really entirely sold on him

1640
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:17,640
as a as a full time starter, even like that

1641
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:19,600
has to be a part of the calculus.

1642
01:17:21,399 --> 01:17:23,239
Speaker 1: Do you think he gets an extension or is it

1643
01:17:23,319 --> 01:17:25,479
taken into I won't even say RFA. Do you think

1644
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:27,680
he's on an extension when next season begins?

1645
01:17:31,279 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 3: Oh?

1646
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 2: Man, that's so tough because the Halley thing is so fresh.

1647
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:40,159
I mean, everything just is upside down right now. I

1648
01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:43,039
wouldn't panic. If I'm the Pacers, That's probably where I'm at,

1649
01:17:43,279 --> 01:17:46,600
and I'd be I'd be willing to to gamble on it.

1650
01:17:47,239 --> 01:17:50,760
I think he goes into RFA.

1651
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,319
Speaker 1: I probably would do the same. And it also keeps

1652
01:17:52,359 --> 01:17:54,439
your trade options open during the regular season if you

1653
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:56,680
decide that you need more of a wholesale pivot, what

1654
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,880
is the plan here then more? Are you leaning into

1655
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:02,880
the gap year? Are you can you do that with Siakam?

1656
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:04,520
Are you confident enough that he's still gonna be good

1657
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:07,279
enough by the time that Halle is Halle again, assuming

1658
01:18:07,319 --> 01:18:10,159
he gets there. And what do you view as kind

1659
01:18:10,159 --> 01:18:12,479
of their biggest needs for next season, Because here's the thing.

1660
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,199
If it's me, I'm going through a gap year. But

1661
01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:15,720
it's so tough to know what that looks like when

1662
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:18,439
you have so many capable players on your roster, and

1663
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:20,399
so I'm not saying they need to get a top

1664
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,560
five lottery pick. I'm viewing it more as okay, like

1665
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:25,479
we're still gonna kind of try and win, but like

1666
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:27,800
I want to develop Jaris Walker. I want to see

1667
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,520
what we have in Johnny Furphy. If Benan mcmathern is

1668
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:32,920
still on the team, like let's really try and expand

1669
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,880
his role, especially with Halle out. And I think I'm

1670
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,640
confident enough to where it's like, I don't know how

1671
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,560
Siakam's game is actually gonna age, but like he's in

1672
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,000
his early thirties, I'm just going to I'm gonna try

1673
01:18:44,039 --> 01:18:45,520
and manage the crap out of this and if they

1674
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,920
make it into the playoffs, then so be it. That's

1675
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:50,560
when you kind of but I'm going into this season

1676
01:18:51,039 --> 01:18:55,079
really prioritizing setting myself up for the following year.

1677
01:18:55,239 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 2: Yep, I couldn't agree more. I'm playing Sam significantly less

1678
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:04,199
next year. I'm not asking him to coast, but I

1679
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,039
am telling him that we want to keep you fresh

1680
01:19:08,039 --> 01:19:10,399
and we want to preserve you long term for when

1681
01:19:10,399 --> 01:19:14,960
Halet Burton is back. We have a zero interest in

1682
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:19,000
you going out and playing two thousand plus minutes next

1683
01:19:19,079 --> 01:19:21,159
year or two and a half thousand minutes next year.

1684
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,119
We want to keep your minutes total low. We want

1685
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:28,000
to make sure that you are as healthy and fresh

1686
01:19:28,039 --> 01:19:29,079
when you enter.

1687
01:19:29,079 --> 01:19:33,239
Speaker 3: Like year what you're thirty three, your thirty third year.

1688
01:19:34,319 --> 01:19:39,119
Speaker 2: And to his credit, Siakam, though he always seems to

1689
01:19:39,159 --> 01:19:41,760
me to be one of those guys who has this

1690
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:45,079
team first mentality, I'm sure you will understand the approach

1691
01:19:45,199 --> 01:19:49,039
and the logic of it. I also think he will

1692
01:19:49,039 --> 01:19:53,520
age gracefully because he's just such a finesse guy. Like, yes,

1693
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,319
he is athletic, but it's not something he relies upon.

1694
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,399
He relies on footwork, he relies on jump shooting, like

1695
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,079
the mid Rain game. Like, I don't think that's going anywhere,

1696
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,479
So I'm all in on a gap here. But as

1697
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:10,000
you said at the top of the show, is that

1698
01:20:10,119 --> 01:20:11,479
a realistic expectation.

1699
01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:12,560
Speaker 3: I have no idea.

1700
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,359
Speaker 2: I honestly don't think the Pacers know it happened less

1701
01:20:16,359 --> 01:20:19,079
than twenty four hours ago, that injury. I think the

1702
01:20:19,119 --> 01:20:22,680
Pacers themselves are like, fuck, what are we gonna do?

1703
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,880
Like right now, as we're recording this, I'm guessing they're

1704
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,399
having meetings in Indiana, Like they're probably sitting around a

1705
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:33,239
table right now, just throwing out different ideas.

1706
01:20:34,399 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: And I think the thing with a gap year two

1707
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:40,399
is that you do maybe optimize the final two years

1708
01:20:40,399 --> 01:20:43,079
of Seacom's contract that way, where people were kind of

1709
01:20:43,079 --> 01:20:44,600
worried about the out years on that. And if he

1710
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,079
goes through a season where his minutes are monitored a

1711
01:20:47,079 --> 01:20:49,079
little bit more, where he's not making a super deep

1712
01:20:49,119 --> 01:20:52,640
playoff push, it sets you up nicely. And I think that, yeah,

1713
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,039
while they might need to we mentioned the multi year window.

1714
01:20:55,119 --> 01:20:57,840
Now you can make the call to like, Okay, this

1715
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,520
isn't you know, we start twenty twenty six doesn't look great.

1716
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:03,680
You can pivot from there. You can make trades in season.

1717
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:05,840
This isn't a they need to trade Pascal Siakam now,

1718
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,640
but I'm sure I'm sure that discussion is coming.

1719
01:21:11,079 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 2: All I need for them next year is what you

1720
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,319
basically said is lean into the youth. I want Jaris

1721
01:21:18,359 --> 01:21:20,800
Walker to play twenty five forty freaking minutes a game.

1722
01:21:21,279 --> 01:21:24,159
I want him to be incorporated heavily into the offense.

1723
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,119
I want to see Johnny Furvey get more minutes. I'm

1724
01:21:27,119 --> 01:21:28,720
not saying you should get Ferdy. I want to see

1725
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:31,960
him just get minutes. If they keep Benedic Mathrin, yeah,

1726
01:21:32,079 --> 01:21:36,560
lean into his scoring. Let's if you're trading off OPI Toppin,

1727
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:39,399
see if you can find someone who's younger, like, someone

1728
01:21:39,399 --> 01:21:41,680
who you can actually give minutes to, someone who flies

1729
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:44,479
under the radar, someone who you might have liked in

1730
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,520
previous draft setting but never got your hands on. Now

1731
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:49,760
you have a chance to maybe get that guy via

1732
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,920
a top in trade. Put him into the rotation. Whoever

1733
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,479
that player is like trade for Kim whitmore like go

1734
01:21:56,600 --> 01:22:01,640
for someone who's just like underutilized elsewhere, and see if

1735
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:05,840
you can spend the next year just building a freaking

1736
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:09,439
team that embraces Halbert when he returns.

1737
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 1: I do feel like this is a team that will

1738
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:12,920
still try and remain competitive next year, and I think

1739
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,960
their biggest need now is another playmaker. For general type

1740
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:20,840
aside from having Siakam and McConnell and Nemhart, any names

1741
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,600
that they're not going to have in terms of spending tools.

1742
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:25,800
If they're bringing back Miles Turner, maybe they have the

1743
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,960
mini mL, but are they even willing to spend it.

1744
01:22:28,399 --> 01:22:30,039
That might be, you know, when you're looking at trades,

1745
01:22:30,079 --> 01:22:32,079
that might be the thing where it's Okay, we have

1746
01:22:32,119 --> 01:22:33,479
to give up over the top and we have to

1747
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,039
give up at mcmatherm. But it's to get a point

1748
01:22:36,039 --> 01:22:37,319
guard type in here.

1749
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 2: I hate this name, but it's just I don't know

1750
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,920
what his market is and that's why I'm just throwing

1751
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:45,399
it out there.

1752
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,560
Speaker 3: What is the angel Rustler going to make next year?

1753
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:52,840
Speaker 1: I have no idea he doesn't like Is he still

1754
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:53,760
a mid level player?

1755
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:58,479
Speaker 3: That's like, I don't even know. He might not be.

1756
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,439
Speaker 1: Can Tias Jones play the way the Pacers want to play?

1757
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:11,840
Speaker 2: Oh, that's going straight on my only fans? Then yeah,

1758
01:23:11,880 --> 01:23:14,960
I love me some tis. I would love that. That's

1759
01:23:15,079 --> 01:23:17,640
that's a good one. I do you think he'd be

1760
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:20,840
open to taking another Mint deal after he just signed

1761
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:21,720
one last year?

1762
01:23:23,399 --> 01:23:25,319
Speaker 1: I would assume not, And I'm assuming he'll have at least,

1763
01:23:25,359 --> 01:23:26,079
Mini MLI.

1764
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:32,439
Speaker 3: Offers, Yeah, he'd be a great stop gap, though Chris.

1765
01:23:32,359 --> 01:23:34,239
Speaker 1: Paul can't really play the way they want to play,

1766
01:23:34,279 --> 01:23:35,920
or at least doesn't want to. He's getting up there.

1767
01:23:37,359 --> 01:23:38,720
Speaker 3: I think he's Lakers bound. Two.

1768
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,319
Speaker 1: What about Dennis Shrewder, assuming that they could figure out

1769
01:23:42,359 --> 01:23:46,760
how to get him, Yeah, that'd be fun. I think

1770
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:48,920
there's anything good like trade targets that one because you

1771
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:50,319
don't want to. I mean, I'm at the point, like, no,

1772
01:23:50,399 --> 01:23:52,319
you're absolutely not trading a first round pick?

1773
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:54,840
Speaker 2: What about child like Ti jer Rome is going to

1774
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:57,600
get the full non tax em like, because there aren't

1775
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:58,359
money out there.

1776
01:23:58,319 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 3: Right, Like, are there anyone?

1777
01:24:00,399 --> 01:24:04,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, we could throw Scottie Pippen Junior's name out again,

1778
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:05,520
since that's what we do for every team.

1779
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 3: That's Oh, that's fun. You'll have to trade for him though.

1780
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that probably cost you a first round pick, right?

1781
01:24:13,039 --> 01:24:15,399
What about Like would Aaron Holliday be a good enough

1782
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:17,520
stop gap? But that's just someone that you know you

1783
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:22,479
could get. That's so you trust him to handle some

1784
01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,520
like to take on more ball handling responsibilities. I mean, again,

1785
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:27,760
it's an experimental year, so I don't hate it. That's

1786
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:31,239
a good name. I love Io. Kobie White would work,

1787
01:24:31,399 --> 01:24:33,920
would work very well well if they were willing to

1788
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:35,239
give up the assets to get him.

1789
01:24:36,359 --> 01:24:38,279
Speaker 3: I mean it's I don't even think you need to.

1790
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 1: Oh what about again, matching the money those were like

1791
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:47,640
Cole Anthony, that'd be fun. I don't love that one.

1792
01:24:48,079 --> 01:24:50,560
Thirteen million and it's okay. So you're definitely sending out

1793
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:56,800
Obie Toppen at that point, Yeah, Dad, it's tough there.

1794
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,000
Oh man, they're not a Russell Westbrook team all day

1795
01:24:59,199 --> 01:24:59,880
free agency.

1796
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:04,239
Speaker 3: Don't don't put that evil on them. That's not fair.

1797
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,079
Speaker 1: Spencer Dinwity Again, I'm just looking at like that could

1798
01:25:09,079 --> 01:25:11,600
be someone who would sign for the minimum, right, Oh.

1799
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 3: Are we back in twenty twenty two?

1800
01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:19,199
Speaker 1: What options? I mean, I'm working with pennies here. When

1801
01:25:19,239 --> 01:25:22,359
you're looking at free agents specifically, I liked it.

1802
01:25:22,399 --> 01:25:24,359
Speaker 3: And when he's just fine, I just don't think he

1803
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:25,159
had a great year.

1804
01:25:27,359 --> 01:25:29,359
Speaker 1: It would probably have to be a Miles Turner sign

1805
01:25:29,399 --> 01:25:31,359
and trade, and then the Lakers can't even acquire him

1806
01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:33,119
like that. I was gonna say, Austin Reeves would be

1807
01:25:33,399 --> 01:25:35,079
just to add him to this roster and like try

1808
01:25:35,119 --> 01:25:37,720
to juice the offense that way without Hallie. But I

1809
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:40,680
think the opportunity cost there would be too high.

1810
01:25:41,199 --> 01:25:43,359
Speaker 3: I'm sticking with Ioh. I like that one.

1811
01:25:45,039 --> 01:25:47,399
Speaker 2: Seven and a half million, two. That's not a lot

1812
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:49,279
of money. You can you can find a way to

1813
01:25:49,319 --> 01:25:49,720
get that in.

1814
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:53,840
Speaker 1: No, you could definitely figure that out for sure. Uh,

1815
01:25:54,319 --> 01:25:56,000
Malik Monk's probably too expensive.

1816
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:00,680
Speaker 3: Injury frone, do you even dare?

1817
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 1: Now if it's I own Lonzo and you're sending out

1818
01:26:05,199 --> 01:26:07,600
like the what is it eighteen million dollars in salary,

1819
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:12,119
you have the top end deal. That's interesting. Lonzo is

1820
01:26:12,199 --> 01:26:14,039
perfect for the style they play. You could probably only

1821
01:26:14,119 --> 01:26:17,560
give you like fifteen minutes a game. Those two would

1822
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:21,039
be I mean, you're you're you're skewing small at that point,

1823
01:26:21,079 --> 01:26:23,159
but I think you're banking on all right. Or one

1824
01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:25,039
of these centers that were injured, maybe it's a Wiseman

1825
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:27,680
or Jackson Jackson, they're gonna come back cheap and healthy.

1826
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,920
Or we could just approximate value at the center position there.

1827
01:26:31,359 --> 01:26:32,039
That would be fun.

1828
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 2: That would be really give up the idea of Lonzo

1829
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,119
Ball in Toronto next to Grady Dick.

1830
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:40,640
Speaker 1: We've probably also sent Lonzo Ball all sorts of other places.

1831
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:43,479
Who do you know, what's a good name. Let's say

1832
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,319
this team's look gonna cut costs and a third team

1833
01:26:45,399 --> 01:26:49,199
is involved. That's taking on money you're sending out. Mike

1834
01:26:49,279 --> 01:26:50,600
Conley is a stop gap here.

1835
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good one. Isn't he from Indiana? Ashley?

1836
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:58,359
Speaker 1: I do not know. I can double check that, but

1837
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,279
that would be I mean, he had some low this year,

1838
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,600
but like as a stopgap, that would be perfect. Comes

1839
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,399
off the books. He was He went to.

1840
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:10,279
Speaker 3: School Arkansas, Yeah, high school. I went to Indiana.

1841
01:27:10,359 --> 01:27:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think he played with Greg Odin right

1842
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:15,079
in Indiana back in high school.

1843
01:27:15,359 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 1: At Lawrence North. Yeah. Yeah, So went to college in Ohio,

1844
01:27:20,079 --> 01:27:22,239
high school Indianapolis, and born in Arkansas.

1845
01:27:23,239 --> 01:27:26,600
Speaker 2: That's a journey man right there. Okay, but there's there's

1846
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:30,159
at least some Indiana connection. I want partial credit.

1847
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:33,520
Speaker 1: Oh weird. I feel like there's an obvious name here

1848
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:36,840
expiring contract. I don't know. Could you do it without

1849
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:39,800
giving up a first round pick? Is the question? Colin Sexton.

1850
01:27:44,199 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 2: I love the scoring, I don't. I don't love the playmaking.

1851
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 1: No you shouldn't. It's like basically out of drives.

1852
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:56,600
Speaker 3: And that's right, exactly. That is that the player you need.

1853
01:27:57,800 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 1: As a stop gap. I think it's just sort of

1854
01:28:00,359 --> 01:28:02,399
you know, if you could get him for Obi toppin

1855
01:28:02,479 --> 01:28:03,960
so to spend seconds or something.

1856
01:28:04,279 --> 01:28:06,199
Speaker 2: Right, But he's gonna take shots away from the guys

1857
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:07,239
who want to develop too.

1858
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Who who is he taking shots away from?

1859
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:10,680
Speaker 3: That?

1860
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,520
Speaker 1: You think, like they're not gonna run stuff through jars.

1861
01:28:13,359 --> 01:28:17,600
Speaker 2: Water Perhaps be Mathrine. Okay, Johnny Fervor was a joke.

1862
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:20,399
But like Benedic Mathrin and jeris what like, I don't

1863
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:22,439
hate him saying shots away. He's not even that old.

1864
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:26,319
Like you might actually just trade for him and then go,

1865
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,079
you know what, he could be around when Hallie's back.

1866
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:34,319
Speaker 1: That is that's possible. So but like those are sort

1867
01:28:34,359 --> 01:28:37,039
of like that's on the we mentioned Sexton, we mentioned

1868
01:28:37,039 --> 01:28:38,520
even Io. I would say those are on like the

1869
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:41,880
higher end of solutions that they could probably go after

1870
01:28:42,359 --> 01:28:45,760
in terms of free agency. Maybe he maybe Tias Jones

1871
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,079
really sees this as okay, I'll take the minimum or

1872
01:28:48,119 --> 01:28:50,319
maybe it's the mini mL E and he've used it

1873
01:28:50,359 --> 01:28:52,880
as now I can really because they have to play him.

1874
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:54,680
This isn't Phoenix, who's gonna stick him in the corner.

1875
01:28:55,079 --> 01:28:56,640
A lot of the time, like he's gonna have to

1876
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:57,560
play a prominent part.

1877
01:28:58,279 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 3: I would love that Tias Jones is good. I'll die

1878
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:01,000
on that hill.

1879
01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:03,600
Speaker 1: Anything else on these pacers or can you tell our

1880
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:05,720
listeners and subscribers where they can find you and all

1881
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:06,199
the work that you do.

1882
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 3: I think we're okay on the pacers.

1883
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:12,399
Speaker 2: You can find me over at Yahoo Sports, over at Forbes,

1884
01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:15,359
you can listen to the NBA podcast and you speak

1885
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:17,319
Danish plus re reader, and you can also find you

1886
01:29:17,359 --> 01:29:19,000
over a pluekuy at MSJN.

1887
01:29:20,319 --> 01:29:22,159
Speaker 1: Until next time, and as always, with the shout out

1888
01:29:22,159 --> 01:29:24,720
to the one, the only, the indelible, I'm actually going

1889
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:27,119
to shout out Tarry Salibert here. Get well soon. I

1890
01:29:27,159 --> 01:29:29,520
hope he comes back just as good, if not better,

1891
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:31,439
in twenty twenty six