1
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 1: It's so insane.

2
00:00:31,879 --> 00:00:44,840
Speaker 2: Bunker bunco unco funcer.

3
00:00:57,719 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 3: All right, what's up everybody. We have our good buddy

4
00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:02,719
David Patrick Carey from church Atternal Logos. He's joining us

5
00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:06,719
today to cover a topic that I first saw maybe

6
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:08,640
a year and a half ago. Two years ago, I

7
00:01:08,719 --> 00:01:11,560
was listening to a link that somebody sent me from

8
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,400
a weird Lutheran.

9
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: Guy, and if you remember, the Lutheran guy was talking

10
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,519
like this, and he was talking about how he had

11
00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:22,079
just engaged in deconstructing his faith journey and through this

12
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,760
deconstruction process he learned a lot about the oppression that

13
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,200
he found in Christianity.

14
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,599
Speaker 3: Since that time, this has become a trend where we're

15
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,719
noticing all over mainly TikTok. I mean, it's kind of

16
00:01:33,719 --> 00:01:36,000
spilling out into other areas. And one of the key

17
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,159
characters that has helped promote this, we'll talk about Dan

18
00:01:39,239 --> 00:01:42,640
McClellan as one of these characters. Or is that his name, Dan? Yeah,

19
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,239
Dan McLellan Yeah. And Codell just sent me his Instagram.

20
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,480
As you can see, it's basically all him and a

21
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,719
bunch of Marvel soy gears. So this is going to

22
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,519
tell you, right, this is going to tell you right

23
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,079
away like the sort of personalities that we're dealing with,

24
00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:00,680
but also one of the big YouTubers, if you know,

25
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,519
Rhett from reht and link is one of the big

26
00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,239
YouTubers and now TikTokers who's promoted this trend of quote

27
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,520
deconstructing my Christianity. So today we're going to cover that,

28
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,000
and this is an introductory stream. We're going to actually

29
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,560
deal with the more in depth theological challenges in the

30
00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:19,800
second stream, which will be over on Cotel's channel. I've

31
00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,599
got him linked in the show description and in the title,

32
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,000
so be sure and follow David Patrick Harry over at

33
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,080
his channel, and we'll do that part two probably next week.

34
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,280
But today we're going to introduce the topic. And again

35
00:02:33,319 --> 00:02:36,039
it seems to right now be sort of confined to

36
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,479
the evangelical world, is apparently spilling over into Mormonism with

37
00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:44,520
this McClellan guy. It's a lot of emergent church, non

38
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,080
denominational people doing this, and so what's what's your initial

39
00:02:49,159 --> 00:02:51,800
assessment of this? When did you first hear about deconstructing

40
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,520
my Christianity and what's your initial assessment?

41
00:02:54,599 --> 00:02:56,840
Speaker 4: David, So I had heard.

42
00:02:56,719 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 5: About it, like you probably about a year ago, but

43
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,520
I'd have dove down the rabbit hole at TikTok deconstructing

44
00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,840
my Christianity until this stream we start talking about this topic,

45
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,120
shout out to ac and once I dove down that

46
00:03:11,199 --> 00:03:13,840
rabbit hole, I it's kind of surprised by how many

47
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,560
views they get. I mean, there are multiple videos that

48
00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:20,319
have millions of views on TikTok where they really bring

49
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,400
the most basic criticisms of Christianity and act as if

50
00:03:24,439 --> 00:03:29,000
they have uncovered these hidden, hidden jewels and secrets that

51
00:03:29,039 --> 00:03:30,039
nobody's heard about.

52
00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:32,080
Speaker 4: You know. Theodicy is a big.

53
00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 5: One, trying to explain the existence of evil and if

54
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,120
God's omni present, omni perfect, well then how come people die?

55
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,400
And they mock Christianity by saying, if God.

56
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 4: Why bad thing? And then they go on to talk.

57
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 5: About why it's a good argument, and it's like, no, no,

58
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:49,159
it's not.

59
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,759
Speaker 4: But it's kind of a.

60
00:03:53,639 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 5: Pseudo intellectual social media trend where these criticisms are credibly

61
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,639
superficient and dealt with. I mean, for at this point,

62
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,919
you know, in two thousand years, and I was kind

63
00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:09,719
of surprised to see how it is very very popular

64
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,560
right now, especially like you said on TikTok amongst the

65
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:17,800
gen Z. So you know, they try to utilize deconstructionism.

66
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,639
Speaker 4: And they really don't even know what it is. I mean, I.

67
00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:23,759
Speaker 5: Would say maybe the McLellan guy is familiar because he

68
00:04:23,879 --> 00:04:27,639
is academically trained. He has a PhD, master's degrees and

69
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,439
biblical studies and stuff like that. But you know, deconstructionism

70
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:39,040
as a general philosophical methodology begins with Derrida and his grammatology.

71
00:04:39,199 --> 00:04:44,199
And when we talk about postmodern you know, Jordan Peterson's postmodernism,

72
00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:47,399
it has to do with the linguistic turn in philosophy

73
00:04:47,439 --> 00:04:50,240
in which they do away with the authority of the

74
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:55,040
author itself and therefore you move into infinite interpretations. And

75
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,800
so it's ironic that they're using deconstructionism to highlight how

76
00:04:58,879 --> 00:05:03,759
biblical readings scripture are inaccurate. Meanwhile, their own methodology has

77
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,639
been criticized throughout scholarship is being relativistic and really is

78
00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,639
it's deconstructing, but it never constructs anything. It's just constant criticism,

79
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,120
and they themselves are guilty of relativism and subjective interpretations

80
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,959
of reading. So's the what's the ultimate conclusion?

81
00:05:19,959 --> 00:05:21,639
Speaker 3: And point of Yeah, this is a great point, and

82
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,680
this is a very common presubsisitional critique that I've done

83
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,879
over the years. I got this from Bonsen. When you

84
00:05:28,959 --> 00:05:31,720
encounter somebody who is a deconstructionist, of course, they always

85
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,519
assume that they read dairy Da and they derive Deida's

86
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,079
meanings from his text. But wait a minute, I thought,

87
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,560
I can't know authorial intent, and I thought, I have

88
00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:43,639
to deconstruct all of my narratives, my grand narratives. So

89
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,759
it's a very contradictory philosophical nonsense position from the outset.

90
00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,439
But I'll briefly read a little bit here just to

91
00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:54,879
give an introduction to the topic. Faith deconstruction is an

92
00:05:54,959 --> 00:06:01,040
evangelical movement within particularly American evangelicalism, and it's closely related

93
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,480
to what's called the ex evangelical movement. And this is

94
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,839
a very adjacent to Reddit's, you know, the soy atheist

95
00:06:08,079 --> 00:06:10,759
sphere of Reddit. Of course, it can have a range

96
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,680
of meanings. Alyssa Childers, So here we have it's beginning

97
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,160
with a woman defines deconstruction as a process so systematically

98
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,839
dissecting and rejecting the beliefs that you grew up with.

99
00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:24,079
Now people are finding this to be some like groundbreaking thing.

100
00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:26,680
But it's like, I mean, pretty much everybody who becomes

101
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,839
a teenager at some point, I know I did. I'm

102
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,600
sure like everybody questions their belief. Why is this some

103
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:37,680
like new phenomenon first question about Christianity. It's like I realized,

104
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,279
this is a system of oppression, as if no one

105
00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:43,160
ever questioned their faith when they become you know, seventeen

106
00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:45,560
year olds or whatever. Right from the outset. It's kind

107
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,680
of silly. And like you said in my notes, I

108
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,399
put this is a sued movement. This is like it's

109
00:06:50,439 --> 00:06:53,079
a bunch of SuDS. It goes on to say that

110
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,639
Tyler Huckaby, who wrote for Relevant magazine, and you have

111
00:06:56,639 --> 00:06:59,040
to keep in mind a lot of these emergent church movements,

112
00:06:59,079 --> 00:07:03,040
a lot of these non denominational strip mall churches there,

113
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,360
a lot of these are tied to NGO's, are tied

114
00:07:05,399 --> 00:07:09,240
to foundations that fund them to push these kinds of ideas,

115
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,839
particularly all who was one of the founders of or

116
00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:13,560
early on if I remember, he's one of the early

117
00:07:13,839 --> 00:07:16,560
emergent church people, and this was an idea to kind

118
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,079
of pick and choose from everything from Catholicism to evangelicalism

119
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:25,399
to classical Reformation theology to kind of create your own

120
00:07:25,439 --> 00:07:29,360
evangelical church movement called the emergent Church back in the

121
00:07:29,439 --> 00:07:31,480
two thousands, and this kind of was a big It

122
00:07:31,519 --> 00:07:34,000
played a role in a lot of the megachurches that

123
00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:37,240
popped off during that time period. But it goes on

124
00:07:37,279 --> 00:07:40,439
to say that John, it's a process of re examining

125
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,959
your faith. John stone Street, Timothy Paget note that it

126
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,079
is both used descriptively, covering everybody from Kevin Max to

127
00:07:48,199 --> 00:07:53,480
Derek Webb to Rob Bell or the prescriptive recommendation that

128
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,360
you question. The term, as David noted, derives loosely from

129
00:07:58,439 --> 00:08:02,040
Jacques Garry does philosophical consts the deconstruction, and the idea

130
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:08,600
is that eventually you uh learn to erode the structures

131
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,439
that you were raised with because you figure out, oh, well,

132
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,360
I don't know Saint Paul's intention. I don't know the

133
00:08:17,439 --> 00:08:20,519
you know, the basis for uh, you know why the

134
00:08:20,639 --> 00:08:24,319
church fathers made this? This this the Bible? Like, so

135
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,240
I don't know, So why do I believe in you this?

136
00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:28,160
It's just because I was raised with it.

137
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,399
Speaker 5: But I wrote down in regard to some of the

138
00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:35,360
philosophical roots of deconstructionism is that it kind of is

139
00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:41,120
a blending of really three important thinkers. One is Assur's linguistics, which,

140
00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:43,799
for those who aren't familiar, his whole the whole claim

141
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,320
to fame there is that he's arguing symbols don't have

142
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,080
meaning and of themselves, and that meaning is derived between

143
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:55,039
the space between symbols. So therefore they're all uh sort

144
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,080
of relational in the concept of meaning, and so they

145
00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:01,440
dare it up. Builds upon some Sour's linguistics, and then

146
00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,600
adds Martin Heideger's phenomenology, which is essentially a critique of

147
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,519
Western metaphysics and his focus on the fluid nature of being,

148
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:14,200
which influenced Dardo's approach to questioning traditional philosophical concepts. So

149
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,240
you can see this fluidity and the idea of categories

150
00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:19,919
and being mixed with meaning is now in the in

151
00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:23,080
between space, it's not within symbols itself. And then of

152
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,240
course Nietzsche's critique of truth, which he is skeptical about

153
00:09:27,279 --> 00:09:30,279
the existence of objective truth itself, which again is ironic

154
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,159
because the people presenting this as if they're presenting an

155
00:09:33,159 --> 00:09:37,360
objective form of truth undermining Christian faith and so so

156
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:42,240
sore Heidiger and Nietzsche are really the core inspirations for

157
00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:47,159
Dereduck sort of combining this into a deconstructionist philosophy that

158
00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:50,720
is really in opposition to at that time structuralism and

159
00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:54,639
building linguistic structures and understanding cultural phenomenon and all this

160
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,440
different stuff and then underneath it, and then we'll probably

161
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,840
discuss those more in part two, because they use a

162
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,720
lot of vaki and cognitive science of religion, and it's

163
00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:08,600
because deconstructionism, because it was kind of a linguistic movement.

164
00:10:08,919 --> 00:10:12,279
The way they rooted themselves in science is through psychoanalysis

165
00:10:12,759 --> 00:10:17,919
and so lacan Freud. These are then inspirations for emphasizing

166
00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,639
the unconscious and sort of evolutionary understandings of why religion

167
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,279
exists and why people are religious. And when we watch

168
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,000
some of the more tiktoks probably in part two, we'll

169
00:10:28,039 --> 00:10:31,080
see that they always moved to a sort of evolutionary

170
00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:34,000
understanding of why people believe certain things or why the

171
00:10:34,039 --> 00:10:35,200
Bible says this or that.

172
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's often closely associated with postmodernism in a lot

173
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,840
of ways, because postmodernism was all about deconstructing your grand narratives,

174
00:10:45,919 --> 00:10:48,399
and so there are no grand narratives. Even the Enlightenment

175
00:10:48,519 --> 00:10:51,679
was a grand narrative, the universalism of the Enlightenment, the

176
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,559
age of Reason that had to be deconstructed as a

177
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,919
mythology that was promoted and proposed by certain power structures.

178
00:11:00,039 --> 00:11:02,879
You can see how this is adjacent to Marxism. There

179
00:11:02,919 --> 00:11:08,240
is a very clear demarcation though between postmodernism and Marxism,

180
00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:10,559
and so this is an area where Jordan Peterson typically

181
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,480
kind of gets things wrong, even though there is some overlap.

182
00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,360
So because many of the postmodernists did like elements of Marxism. Postmodernism, though,

183
00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:22,480
was utilized by the CIA actually to fight against Soviet

184
00:11:22,519 --> 00:11:25,840
realism and cosmism. So it's actually the CIA that went

185
00:11:25,879 --> 00:11:28,960
and met with Dairy Daw and various deconstruction is to

186
00:11:29,039 --> 00:11:32,960
try to try to incorporate and utilize this form of liberalism.

187
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,559
And it's a form of liberalism because it's it's radical

188
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,919
in its deconstructing process, right, so that for example, there's

189
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,519
no objective meanings, that there's no you know, universal narratives,

190
00:11:44,519 --> 00:11:48,240
then sovietism cosmism is not true. And so it's part

191
00:11:48,279 --> 00:11:52,440
of the arsenal of the Western liberal project, even though

192
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,679
it's a deconstruction even of Western liberalism. So people get

193
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,399
confused over this and they don't understand sort of these differences.

194
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,440
But I'm glad you mentioned semiotics. I had quite a

195
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,960
few classes that dealt with semiotics and in underground in

196
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,759
grad school, So this is an area I know decently.

197
00:12:08,799 --> 00:12:08,960
Speaker 2: Well.

198
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,159
Speaker 3: I'm not an expert in it, but you can begin

199
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,879
to see why semiotics, which is philosophy of signs and symbols,

200
00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:16,639
comes to play a key role because if we get

201
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,440
really deep into deconstructing symbols, and like you said, there's

202
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,960
that linguistic turn in philosophy begins with Vico and by

203
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,279
the time it gets to modern philosophy, you've got you know,

204
00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:29,559
Vickenstein and guys like this are basically saying that really

205
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,919
words are just language games. They're not really conveying meaning.

206
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,320
It's an illusion if we think we're deriving the author's meaning,

207
00:12:36,799 --> 00:12:40,000
and so it's a breaking down of first books and literature.

208
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,440
You could see the same thing mirrored, for example, in

209
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,960
the higher critical studies of breaking down the Bible in

210
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,960
the higher the German higher criticism schools after Luther the

211
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,080
same thing's going on in philosophy. If I can't know

212
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,759
the Bible, if the Bible's deconstructed, you know, generation or

213
00:12:56,759 --> 00:12:59,519
two after Luther, then it seems to follow, Well, wait

214
00:12:59,519 --> 00:13:02,039
a minute, I don't really know anybody book, do I.

215
00:13:02,039 --> 00:13:04,399
I can't. There's no book that I can actually derive,

216
00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:08,440
So I'm just importing all of my personal presubsisitions and

217
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,240
meanings into the book. So that's kind of the setting

218
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,840
for this. But as David pointed out, most of the

219
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,120
people I think involved in this don't really they don't

220
00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:20,080
know anything about all that they don't.

221
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,519
Speaker 5: And academically, it's in the nineteen sixties and seventies it

222
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,200
kind of grows prominence as a methodology within the academy,

223
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,919
but it's really relegated towards literary studies and like cultural criticism.

224
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,679
But once we get into the later nineteen seventies and

225
00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:40,000
especially the nineteen eighties, we see deconstructionism now turning towards

226
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:46,919
biblical scholarship, more philosophical analysis. And really it's the nineteen

227
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,639
eighties that it became a very dominant. This is why

228
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,559
even today within the humanities, you know, Michelle Fuco is

229
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:56,720
the most cited scholar in the world, and of course

230
00:13:56,759 --> 00:14:00,519
he died from activities at bathroomme hous Is in the

231
00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,120
Bay Area. But I just wanted to point out that

232
00:14:04,519 --> 00:14:07,480
this isn't a new phenomenon. Even though these TikTokers are

233
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,960
acting like they just discovered the sun or something. This

234
00:14:11,039 --> 00:14:14,200
is kind of old hat stuff and they really don't

235
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,480
even know what they're engaging in, especially with their verritical

236
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,320
claims about what scripture says or what It's funny because

237
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,399
even the Dan McClellan glag, he will argue for what

238
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,759
he believes the intent of the author is, even though

239
00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:32,399
his own deconstructionist movement rejects, like you said, a thorial

240
00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:37,080
intent within textual scripture itself.

241
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to make one little sort of a

242
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:45,679
caveat here, which is that if you're into presuppositional argumentation

243
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,879
and logic, believe it or not, there's actually an interesting

244
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,200
role for postmodern people. I don't mean to say obviously

245
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,960
that I accept or I want to promote postmodernism, much

246
00:14:58,039 --> 00:15:00,840
like David Hume is very useful to to show the

247
00:15:00,919 --> 00:15:05,919
logical consistency of you know, skepticism and atheism and empiricism

248
00:15:06,039 --> 00:15:09,279
or radical empiricism in the very same way. We can

249
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,960
actually take the some of the critiques that postmodernists have

250
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,240
and they're very useful, and they're they're very adjacent to

251
00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:22,720
transcendental argumentation. Just the critiques though, So be very be

252
00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:24,799
very clear with what I'm saying here. I'm not saying

253
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,000
that I want to adopt postmodern philosophy. There is no answer.

254
00:15:29,039 --> 00:15:32,039
I mean, the whole point is everything is destroyed and

255
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,399
deconstructive because there are no grand narratives. So now, obviously,

256
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,279
if we believe in Christianity, that's our grand narrative. But

257
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,279
the postmodernists have a very good insight when it comes

258
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:48,840
to deconstructing language from an atheist empiricist perspective. So any

259
00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:53,120
time you're talking to say, you know, enormy Reddit level

260
00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:56,960
atheist who doesn't know this stuff, kind of the Dawkins Dinnet,

261
00:15:57,399 --> 00:16:01,120
you know, Hitchins sphere, those kinds of people, they will

262
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,879
not have any significant answer to postmodern critiques of their

263
00:16:05,039 --> 00:16:08,519
Enlightenment assumptions. So that's why they're very useful to us

264
00:16:08,559 --> 00:16:11,399
if you're very careful. So exactly as somebody said in

265
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,360
the chat there more says you can deconstruct you deconstructionism, absolutely,

266
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:18,960
but they have very valid critiques of the presuppositions of

267
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,879
the Enlightenment. In other words, I could use, say, some of

268
00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:25,440
the postmodern critiques against somebody like James Lindsay, right, Doctor

269
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,559
James Lindsay would not be able to I'm not saying

270
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,799
that the postmodernists are correct in their answers, but their

271
00:16:32,879 --> 00:16:37,639
critiques can be valid critiques of Enlightenment assumptions. And that

272
00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:40,039
will I don't want to yap too long, but that

273
00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:46,559
will get into the very interesting questions that are raised

274
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,360
when we get into linguistic philosophy. And so for those

275
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,440
of you that one last point here. For those of

276
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,639
you that have seen me, for example, in a lot

277
00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:55,919
of debates with atheists, you'll see me at times bringing

278
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,879
up linguistic issues. That's because I had enough of a

279
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,880
uh instruction in semiotics in my classes to know that

280
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,000
most atheists aren't aware of how nuanced and complex languages

281
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,759
and how nuanced and complex the philosophy of signs and

282
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:15,880
symbols is. And so if you know that stuff, that

283
00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:18,880
could be it could be very powerful AMMO against sort

284
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,720
of the normy atheists.

285
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,160
Speaker 5: Right, And I just wanted to rebut your point is

286
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:29,960
that that's exactly why you're you're utilizing deconstructionism or postmodernism.

287
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,160
Is the scholastic approach, and I don't mean sclasticism, I

288
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,119
mean like academic approach, is that you're these are tools.

289
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:41,240
We're not supporting postmodernism or deconstructionism. But as you said,

290
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,720
when it when really all this stuff is coming out

291
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,680
of post enlightenment and really post contient critiques of rationalism,

292
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,160
you can utilize these things as AMMO from a theistic

293
00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,960
orthodox perspective and undermine people that are your perceived intellectual rivals.

294
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,079
And that's what that's why this stuff is useful for us,

295
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,599
even though we would ject again postmodernism or deconstructionism as

296
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,519
an ultimate methodology or endpoint for philosophy.

297
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's some actually some really good philosophical books

298
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,559
from this school. Roland Bart actually has some really I mean,

299
00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:19,119
he was a skittles person. I'm not backing him up,

300
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,440
but he actually has some interesting semiotic essays that that

301
00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:26,960
I think an undergrad we had to read elements of semiology.

302
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,400
I've read a lot of umberto Echo over the years.

303
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,960
He's actually not just a famous author and kind of

304
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:38,119
weirdo anti Catholic, but he left Catholicism and Tomism actually

305
00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:42,279
because of postmodernism and his atheism and became like a

306
00:18:42,319 --> 00:18:46,960
committed super duper like hardcore you know, postmodernist and his

307
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,799
but his, his novels are actually really interesting critiques of

308
00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:55,359
a lot of say, Roman Catholic metaphysical assumptions and things

309
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,880
that we would agree with without accepting the end result.

310
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,119
Because I mean he's a totally kind of wicked dude,

311
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,119
kind of like Fuco Right was totally wicked. But I

312
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,599
mean there are some really fascinating people. Uh and and

313
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,759
I mean I had to read Charles Sanders purse uh

314
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,440
and for for this domain as well as a you

315
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,480
know sorcerer that you're talking about back in the.

316
00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 5: Day, kind of founders of pragmatism.

317
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,599
Speaker 3: So let me I'll read a little bit more of

318
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,160
this and then we'll see what what you what you

319
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,440
what sticks out to you. It's interesting that it's that

320
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:36,200
is popping up in evangelicalism. I'm wondering why that is,

321
00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:39,759
because is it just that evangelicalism is late to the game,

322
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,799
because you know, within mainline uh Protestantism or Catholicism, you

323
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,200
had this deconstructing going on, maybe even after Luther with

324
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:52,920
higher criticism. Uh, you know, why is this? I wonder

325
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,799
why this is hitting Christianity right now? It says after

326
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,240
preaching a sermon in which he equated deconstructions in with

327
00:19:59,319 --> 00:20:02,640
leaving the faith. Matt Chandler clarified that it doesn't mean

328
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:08,319
necessarily doubting or theological wrestling through church hurt. John Cooper stated,

329
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:09,720
I don't even know who these people are. These are

330
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,559
like famous evangelicals. It is time that we declare war

331
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,880
against this deconstruction movement. It is anti christian, it is

332
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,119
a false religion. On the other hand, other evangelicals like

333
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,039
Tyler Huckabee argue that it can result in deconversion out

334
00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:25,960
of Christianity and most often that it leads you into

335
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,920
something somewhere in between, to a form of progressivist Christianity.

336
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,799
So I think, from the vantage point of maybe the

337
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,359
power elite, why this would be pushed so hard in

338
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,079
these circles is maybe if they can't even necessarily get

339
00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:42,640
people to be full on atheists, it at least gets

340
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:47,160
the evangelical world to be more progressive and more cocked.

341
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:48,759
And this is something that you and I were talking

342
00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:52,240
about beforehand. There's an interesting pattern which we'll cover when

343
00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:54,200
we get to your channel. With a lot of the

344
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,400
guys involved in this, what are some of the patterns?

345
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:57,880
And I think with the women too, what some of

346
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:58,920
the patterns you've noticed with the.

347
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 5: People going through some of the tiktoks of some of

348
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,440
the more prominent deconstructionists of Christianity, and like you showed

349
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,440
on your phone, like Dan McClellan, his entire instagram if

350
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,160
you look at and they're all deconstructing Christianity. But they

351
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,640
begin by him holding up t shirts of X Men characters, Superman,

352
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,039
Marvel superheroes. And then there's another a woman actually, and

353
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,039
she has a TikTok called no Nonsense Spirituality. I mean,

354
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,880
this woman is not an intellectual. Her videos, some of

355
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,200
them have millions of views. And in her office where

356
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,960
she sits there in films these if that's not in

357
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,720
her car, she has Funko pops all over the background.

358
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,200
And I thought that that is iron It never fails.

359
00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:50,599
Speaker 3: These are the religious iconography of the soy world, aren't they.

360
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,720
I mean, whether it's Marvel Universe or whether it's you know,

361
00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:57,359
Phonko pops, these are the signs, and these are the

362
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,640
semiotic indicators of soyness, are they not.

363
00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

364
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 5: And it's funny because you were talking about like evangelical Christianity,

365
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,839
and it seems like for them, they think that they're

366
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,559
so much more rational. And I even watched a quote

367
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:18,079
unquote pastor who's promoting this deconstruction my Christianity, deconstructing my Christianity,

368
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,160
and he's saying how wonderful this is. And he didn't

369
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,680
he said that this was a movement that began the nineties,

370
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,160
no understanding of the history of philosophy or anything like that,

371
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,000
but you could tell. So he was super pro LGBTQ,

372
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,519
pro everything progressive, and it's a way for them to

373
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,160
have a foothold in quote unquote Christianity. But rationalizing this

374
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,400
is the modern person's religion. This is something that's deconstructed.

375
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,799
We're taking away all the fictitious aspects of Christianity and

376
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:52,359
now we're coming to for them a fuller realization, a

377
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,319
rational understanding of the Biblical God. And how you know,

378
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,680
all these criticisms of texts and discrept and sees what

379
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,079
they perceive to be between Old Testament prophecies and the

380
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,200
Messiah in Christ, this type of stuff. But it really

381
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,799
just seems a way for them to present themselves as

382
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,279
intellectually sound and hyper rational. And I think that's why

383
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,519
we're seeing it in like evangelical and Pentecostal charismatic circles

384
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,720
is one, you know, well in the charismatic circle is

385
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:27,559
kind of irrational, but they're anti intellectual movements. So yeah, right,

386
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,400
But I've made the argument because of the lack of

387
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,319
sacraments and Protestantism, it really is an ideology. And so

388
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,359
when you hear Protestants worry about the world, it's communism,

389
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,200
it's it's you know, undermining capitalism, it's it's ideologies that

390
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,160
are in competition with Protestantism. This is why, you know,

391
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,759
if somebody's possessed, even I know somebody here in the

392
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,680
local town, they went to a Catholic priest to get

393
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,880
an extracism because their Protestant church doesn't deal with that

394
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,440
sort of material realm of mystery and the sort of

395
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:04,480
super spiritual reality within the world. So I think Protestantism

396
00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:08,240
is already lean because it's really an Enlightenment or early

397
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:13,279
pre Enlightenment creation. It is a hyper it's ironic because

398
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:15,880
they're anti intellectual, as you said, but at the same time,

399
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:22,559
it's an ideology itself. It's fundamentally about rational apprehension of beliefs.

400
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:26,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's difficult to in our society be

401
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:32,039
anti intellectual when you are constantly hit with intellectual challenges.

402
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,119
So what's happening is these evangelicals are then looking for

403
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,640
intellectual answers and intellectual ways to grapple with intellectual challenges,

404
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,720
and this is leading them to choose these kind of

405
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:48,720
pseudo intellectual answers and options. And this is in many cases,

406
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,559
I think, deconstructing and leading them out of Christianity. In fact,

407
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,759
one of the quotes here is by one of the

408
00:24:55,759 --> 00:25:00,680
persons who's a promoter of it. For examp sample, they say,

409
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:03,720
you could look at Martin Luther himself as somebody who

410
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:08,200
was a deconstructionist. He deconstructed his own Catholic upbringing to

411
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,000
come to a new revolutionary paradigm which didn't wholly abandon Christianity,

412
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:16,720
but was something new and progressive. So that Luther there,

413
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,799
even the proponents of were saying, well, we're not doing

414
00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:20,680
anything different than what Martin Luther was doing, which I

415
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,000
think is kind of true, and I think from orthodized perspective,

416
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:25,359
I could say, yeah, the pope too, like the pope

417
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,319
in the eleventh century of the grigoyin Reforms was, as

418
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,119
Saint Justin Popovich says, another kind of he was the

419
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,319
first Protestant revolutionary, was the pope at that time. Now,

420
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,480
one thing that immediately pops into my mind too, from

421
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,960
a philosophical perspective, is that the videos that I've watched

422
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,079
in these pseudo intellectual guys and I just I remember

423
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,319
this McClellan guy. I've actually people have sent me his

424
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:48,960
videos before. I didn't realize he was a Mormon dude.

425
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,440
But that makes sense because one thing you'll notice that

426
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,839
people who say utilize a lot of these deconstruction elements

427
00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:00,839
and these postmodern ideas, these that's a filosophy where there

428
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,000
is no neutrality, there's no privileged position from which you

429
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:09,039
can judge. That's not theory lating. Yet every one of

430
00:26:09,079 --> 00:26:13,039
the people who does these critiques in the evangelical or

431
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:16,599
even Mormon world here like they're assuming that they actually

432
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:20,000
do have neutrality, because they're saying that, oh, the Bible

433
00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:23,200
has these systems of oppression, the Bible has these you know,

434
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,519
bad arguments and has these falsehoods. Well, all of that

435
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:30,799
relies on you having some kind of position from which

436
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,720
you can make those critiques. But the problem is that

437
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:36,640
if you're actually a postmodernist, there is no privileged position,

438
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,880
there is no theory neutral position, So they're inconsistent the

439
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,480
application of this philosophy.

440
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 5: Well, and for McClellan, I was going through his YouTube channels.

441
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,720
I think he has like sixty some thousand subs, and

442
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,880
I was he introduces himself is that he's still part

443
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,200
of the Church of the Latter day Saints. And then

444
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,000
ac sent one of his books that's sort of free domain,

445
00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:04,400
and I was reading it. And the reason why he's

446
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,319
so adamant about sort of undermining the Christology or the

447
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,279
christophanies of the Old Testament regards to Christ is because

448
00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:13,920
of his Mormonism. He wants him to take on as

449
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,960
sort of aryan Christology and promotion of his Mormon worldview,

450
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,759
and so his deconstructionism and constantly undermining what we would

451
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:28,200
consider foundational Christian beliefs is part for him to elevate

452
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,480
his Mormon theology as being in his view, more consistent

453
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,519
with the Old Testament than you know, Orthodoxy or Catholicism

454
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:37,799
or mainline Protestantism.

455
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: I mean, what has he done a deconstruction of Mormonism.

456
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 5: I mean no, I looked, I didn't find anything undermining Mormonism.

457
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: Well, I wonder how you would deal with the fact that,

458
00:27:48,559 --> 00:27:49,920
I don't know if you knew this. I just actually

459
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:51,839
learned this a couple of weeks ago from an ex

460
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,000
Mormon that called in have you seen the Joseph Smith

461
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:57,960
translation of the Bible? No, So it's a real thing.

462
00:27:58,039 --> 00:28:01,400
So Joseph Smith added himself off in eleven verses to

463
00:28:01,559 --> 00:28:05,279
the end of Genesis. So I'm serious. So just like

464
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,400
more Muslims will say, oh, you know John, the prophecies

465
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,759
in John of the Holy Spirit, that's actually talking about Mohammed.

466
00:28:13,519 --> 00:28:15,279
It's not obviously not talking about Mohammed and some bother

467
00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:18,799
coming of the Holy Spirit. Well, Joseph Smith went one

468
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,839
step further and actually added eleven verses to Genesis to

469
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,759
predict himself in Genesis. So I'm curious what Dan. If

470
00:28:26,839 --> 00:28:29,440
Dan was going to do some linguistic constructions right and

471
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,440
figure out if that's actually part of Genesis.

472
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 4: The whole thing.

473
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, this whole thing is about breaking down the Hebrew

474
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,640
to undermine Christianity, and I'd be curious to see the

475
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,319
Hebrew of Joseph Smith and Genesis exactly.

476
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 3: Now, that's a key point because this is something not

477
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:50,680
many people know. This is my own personal anecdotal observation.

478
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,960
So in dealing with a lot of academics over the

479
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:56,440
years and in a lot of circles, I've met a

480
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,440
lot of people who focused on linguistics. And you know,

481
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:03,799
there's obviously advantages to being a linguist. It's it's a

482
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:06,839
great skill set, a great tool to have in your toolkit.

483
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:10,119
But there's a there's something that's a problem I've noticed

484
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,720
with a lot of people who are linguists, which is

485
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,559
that they oftentimes assume, I don't know, if you remember

486
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:16,519
the debate that either was a JF a long time ago,

487
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:18,640
but Jay have kind of assumed that because he's studied

488
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,559
a lot of you know, neuro whatever neuroscience, that basically

489
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:25,079
he knew everything else, Like I don't have to know

490
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:29,039
anything about logic or philosophy because I've studied you know, neurology,

491
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:31,839
so I know I know what's going on. It's like,

492
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:34,160
that doesn't mean that you're gonna know anything in the

493
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,279
domain of logic, you didn't know basic you know, logical fallacies,

494
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,559
the exact same mistake, the sort of like boxed in,

495
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,559
you know, mono vision that they have is is definitely

496
00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:47,119
the case with a lot of linguists, and so they

497
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,839
will assume that because they've deconstructed language, that that's all

498
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,039
that you need to know. And then most most of

499
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:57,200
the time they're absolutely they're absolutely totally inept when it

500
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,359
comes to philosophy. They have no idea what fallacies are,

501
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,799
They have no idea the historical discussions and disputes of philosophy.

502
00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:05,119
They don't even know the history of linguistic philosophy. But

503
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,480
they've studied linguistics, and they think much like a physicist, Right,

504
00:30:09,519 --> 00:30:12,039
you and I would know if we critiqued you know,

505
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:16,319
somebody like you know, Dawkins or somebody or or Nilda

506
00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:18,839
grass Tyson. Right, they think that, well, I've studied a

507
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:21,720
lot of physics. That's the key to understanding and knowing everything. Well,

508
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:24,920
that's your assumption. So that doesn't mean you know everything.

509
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,400
In fact, you know very little of what's actually going on.

510
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,559
And most I mean every I mean, maybe Dan's a

511
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:35,039
unique exception to the rule. But I mean, most of

512
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:38,799
the time linguistics people, they're so like one sided, they

513
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:40,000
have no idea what's going on.

514
00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 4: Right, It's the Dunning Kruger effect.

515
00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: And yeah, in regards to the philosophy, like in his argument,

516
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,680
so he has a whole book that's on the divine

517
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,039
Yahweh's divine images, a cognitive approach, and so he's mix

518
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:58,359
it like cognitive cognitive science with his biblical criticism. And

519
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:01,039
at the end of it, so he's making the case

520
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:04,720
that the messenger of God in the Old Testament, that

521
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:08,200
Christianity associates with Christ. He's looking at certain words and

522
00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:11,640
highlighting that it's not taking on the full divinity of

523
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,960
the Father, and therefore it's not He's leading them to

524
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,319
the argument that Jesus Christ, then isn't one with the

525
00:31:18,359 --> 00:31:20,559
Trinity himself, at least according to the Old Testament. And

526
00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:25,720
then he ends the book by claiming that logos philosophy

527
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,839
theology wasn't articulated till like the fourth century, and therefore

528
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,640
wasn't even available for early Christians, and that this is

529
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,119
a later innovation in Christian the I.

530
00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:39,519
Speaker 3: Mean, and again that's rich coming from somebody who believes

531
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,559
that Joseph Smith is a prophet who added eleven verses

532
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:46,240
to Genesis to predict herself. But I mean logo logos. No,

533
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:49,359
it's not logos. Theology is in John one. The first

534
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,279
generation of apologists are known as the logos apologists. So

535
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:56,480
this would be like justin Martyr, this would be Tation,

536
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,000
this would be a lot of famous people right after

537
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:02,480
the death of Apostles, uh, who are known for being

538
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:06,480
logos apologists. So that's just on the on its face, preposterous, right.

539
00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:09,119
Speaker 5: That's and that was my point with the Dunning Krueger

540
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,759
is he so focused on linguistics to make an argument

541
00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:15,839
that the philosophy wasn't developed till later to even express

542
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,880
who the second person of the Trinity was. Therefore they

543
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,519
can't apply to the early Christian Church before the Nicene Creed.

544
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:23,839
Speaker 4: It's like, what are you talking about?

545
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 3: Well, I did a whole Yeah, I did a whole

546
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,039
livestream with Inspiring Philosophy a few months ago where we

547
00:32:28,079 --> 00:32:31,960
responded to Jake the Muslim metaphysician, who makes the same argument,

548
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,839
which by the way, he just cribbed from a Jehovah's

549
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:36,559
Witness website. Uh, they make I'm serious. Now they make

550
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:40,079
this argument that well, there there was no trinity prior

551
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:43,599
to Anicia because for example, they didn't have the philosophical

552
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:47,519
concepts to do it. First of all, it's just simply false, uh,

553
00:32:47,599 --> 00:32:50,440
that they didn't have those philosophical terms. There you can

554
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,720
see the terminology of even Trinitas and Tertullian and is

555
00:32:55,759 --> 00:32:59,319
it ignacious? Not ignacious? Yeah, the Aphulus, the Apulus of

556
00:32:59,359 --> 00:33:02,079
Antiocho all so very early uses the term trinity. So

557
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,960
triad and Trinitas are used prior to and not i Sea.

558
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,759
But even apart from the terminology and the philosophical toolkits,

559
00:33:09,359 --> 00:33:11,559
we don't it doesn't matter because we don't believe that

560
00:33:11,599 --> 00:33:15,440
it's ultimately dependent on the philosophy terms. It's dependent upon

561
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:18,599
what's revealed in those texts. And as you guys know,

562
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,480
we've done multiple videos and streams where we've In fact,

563
00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:24,240
a few months ago, I did a three hour stream

564
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:27,759
just in the Torah, just the references to the Triad

565
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:29,319
and the Torah, and it took three hours to get

566
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:32,039
through all those and I still missed one. So that's

567
00:33:32,079 --> 00:33:34,079
not even counting all of the minor profits and the

568
00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:36,799
psalms and so forth. So and that's the whole other

569
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:38,759
thing itself. We'll talk about more of that in the

570
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:41,640
part two that we will do with Kotel, But again,

571
00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:44,319
I just wanted to stress this notion of the limitations

572
00:33:44,319 --> 00:33:48,279
of linguistics. And it's odd too, because it's curious for

573
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:52,039
me to hear somebody who's a postmodern influenced person to

574
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,000
then think that they then have a key through linguistics.

575
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:58,559
I mean, the whole point of this is deconstructing linguistics.

576
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:00,559
So it's just it's just absurd.

577
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: It's not inherent meaning in the in the.

578
00:34:02,079 --> 00:34:04,279
Speaker 3: Hebrew Why would there be, Yeah, exactly, whether it be

579
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:05,759
inherent meaning in the Book of Mormon or in the

580
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:06,880
Hebrew words exactly.

581
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 5: And to your point, I wrote down at least a

582
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,039
few references I can remember for my research that the

583
00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:18,000
Trinity is mentioned by pre Nicene Christians, Ignatius of Antioch,

584
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,840
Justin Marter, Irenaeus, Tertullian, and even Origin all of them speak.

585
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: Oh there's many more than that. In fact, yeah, in

586
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,599
the Inspiring Philosophy in the Aspiring Philosophy stream, we spent

587
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,920
two hours going through pre Nicene references. So what I

588
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,599
was earlier was just the words trinitas or triad the

589
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:42,639
words used by Theophilus and Tertullian first right early on.

590
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:46,239
But the teaching that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are

591
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,400
all God. That's in almost all the Church fathers.

592
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 5: And because the focus on linguistics, they don't even address

593
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,840
like historical traditions, so segy, prayers, hymnography.

594
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a great point. Yeah, all that's exclusive.

595
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:05,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, all these things also represent the trinity and divinity

596
00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:09,119
of Christ pre Nicene Creed, but because that's not scriptural,

597
00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:10,840
then that's not even taken into account.

598
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: That's a great point. Yeah, they have a presupposition from

599
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:19,559
their protestant Ish derivations, and Mormonism is a Protestant derivation.

600
00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:22,800
They just assume that we only go with the New

601
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,880
Testament textual evidence or the written patristic evidence. But I

602
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,320
mean even even the liturgies count as patristic and Apostolic evidences.

603
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,800
I mean, why would you not include them. But that's

604
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,079
a great point. They just exclude this because of their

605
00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:41,719
assumptions of solo scriptura. And I think this is a

606
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,599
great point to highlight that none of these people are

607
00:35:43,639 --> 00:35:49,760
ever self aware of their own presubpositions. That's so key

608
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,039
all right, now we have let me read a little

609
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:57,679
bit more a lot of this. Uh so, what does

610
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,400
it exactly mean to do this process? So we got

611
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,519
the idea of where it comes from, its origins and

612
00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:06,920
post modern philosophy and linguistics. This is just like stuff

613
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,800
I found, just sort of normy stuff online. And this

614
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,880
is important to be Why are you going to normy stuff?

615
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,760
But because this is what all the TikTok people are

616
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,320
gonna search and find. This is where they're gonna go.

617
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,800
So the normy websites and everything said, this is involves quote,

618
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:23,840
first you break down the components of your faith. So

619
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,480
I believe in the trinity, I believe in the deed

620
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:28,480
of Christ, I believe in the salvation through Jesus and

621
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:31,679
his blood and so forth. And then it says you, next,

622
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:34,760
you have to examine your beliefs in God. Why do

623
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,920
you have those beliefs? Do you perhaps have presuppositions or biases?

624
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,400
It's interesting that that terminology is coming up. Here's a

625
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,880
key point. Do you have these beliefs because of your privilege?

626
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:49,960
Wait a minute, privilege? So now they're bringing in like

627
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,760
the critical race there crt right, the woke stuff is

628
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,239
starting to first, what would privilege have to do with

629
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,280
with my beliefs? But they don't even realize that they're

630
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:06,000
caving to a separate paradigm already. So they think they're

631
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,239
achieving neutrality, but they're adopting a leftist, woke paradigm to

632
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,519
begin to make these critiques. Do you see what I'm saying?

633
00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:16,960
Because there's like the articles will start to sneak in

634
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,880
this idea that perhaps you believe in something because of

635
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,440
your privileges, which is all like classical Marxists is speak right.

636
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 5: Well, and it ties in with Dereda because of his

637
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,960
attack on logo centrism. So the centeredness of logos, well

638
00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:37,599
he calls foul logo centrism.

639
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 3: Oh, because of male male supremacy.

640
00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:41,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, that has to be undermined.

641
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,639
Speaker 5: And so deconstructionism typically always focuses on the margins or

642
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:50,000
what they called the areas of silence. So women in

643
00:37:50,039 --> 00:37:53,320
the Bible, non Israelite, how the Bible, How does the

644
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,800
God of the Old Testament deal with heretical views? These

645
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960
are ways in which they can then what they perceive undermined,

646
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:04,400
this prespposition of logo foul logo centrism for a sort

647
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,559
of feminized, decentered, focused on the exterior margins of something,

648
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:13,480
and attack the idea of a metaphysical continuity of logos

649
00:38:14,199 --> 00:38:19,320
metaphysical categories themselves. So all this stuff is embedded within deconstructionism.

650
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:22,119
Speaker 3: And you'll notice when you listen to the people that

651
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,320
do this deconstructing process, when they start to state what

652
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,639
they now believe and what they've come to realize, well,

653
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:31,280
it just happens to be a bunch of woke stuff.

654
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,119
In other words, they just happened to They just happened to.

655
00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:38,039
Start they start saying, I realized Christianity was a tool

656
00:38:38,119 --> 00:38:42,360
for a system of oppression of underprivileged people and minorities.

657
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:44,480
I realized. And a lot of them will say the

658
00:38:44,519 --> 00:38:47,280
first thing they'll say is skittle stuff. They'll say, I

659
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,079
didn't realize that, like, you know, there's nothing wrong with like,

660
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,719
you know, being skittles, And Christianity is the thing that

661
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,800
told me that it's wrong to be this, which is

662
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,440
odd because it's like you never obviously Christianity told you,

663
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,760
Like what, how is that some new revelation in your

664
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,639
deconstructing process, Right, It's.

665
00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 5: One of the tictoks I watched with exactly that it

666
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:14,159
was a chick. I forget her name. I have it

667
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:17,599
pulled up somewhere. Oh, leaving the faith. Her name is

668
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:18,960
leaving the faith on tickets.

669
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:19,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen.

670
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 5: And her whole thing was exactly what you said, is well,

671
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,320
I grew up non denominational, and I believed all these things,

672
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,039
and then I went to graduate school and then I learned,

673
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:33,320
and then we deconstructed the Bible, and I realized that

674
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,840
it's part of patriarchal supremacy, and that really it's this Christianity,

675
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,920
is this hegemonic force that's oppressing us. And and she

676
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,400
was responding to a Christian who said that basically was

677
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:51,079
criticizing her continual criticisms of the Church, and she was arguing, well,

678
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,199
we have to because this is this is the how

679
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,639
we liberate people, how we liberate women from again this

680
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,840
patriarchal dominating force. And it's exactly what you just said.

681
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,480
And of course it's a woman who goes to graduate

682
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:06,880
school and all of a sudden, now she's enlightened about

683
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,079
how you deconstruct Christianity and Lily roo.

684
00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:11,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean she's just being brainwashed in the

685
00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:14,360
same woke grad school stuff of CRT and all the

686
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,840
crap that everybody else who's been to grad school has

687
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,400
been exposed to. And so let's see where was this?

688
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,039
What was there? Okay, So then it says next, after

689
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:28,760
you wrestle with your privileges, you must release yourself from

690
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,119
what you've begun to realize is not God himself. Deconstructing

691
00:40:33,119 --> 00:40:36,000
your faith can be a messy and complicated process, very

692
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,559
similar to renovating a house. It can involve removing, adding, modifying,

693
00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:43,840
and rearranging the various structural elements that make up your

694
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,440
belief in, your lifestyle and your worldview to make it

695
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:51,480
more livable. Thus, deconstructing your faith is not abandoning your

696
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,599
faith wholesale, but rather looking for a more coherent and

697
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,639
consistent way without inventing a new religion wholesale. So in

698
00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:02,599
other words, it's sort of like they're offering, like, look,

699
00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:05,159
you don't have to totally abandon Christianity, just get a

700
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:07,199
bit rid of all the things that are you know,

701
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,440
goes against the modern world, like being opposed to skittle stuff. Right,

702
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:12,400
So that's all that it is. Right, So yeah, I

703
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,920
call yourself a Christian. Just scale it down to you know,

704
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:16,840
not talking about Jesus being the only way to have it,

705
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,639
kind of like Pote Francis the other day, Right, all

706
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:22,679
the religions are paths to God. The deconstructionism is a

707
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:28,079
relatively new idea that originated in textual criticism. So this

708
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:31,039
is again making my point, it's not just the deconstructionists

709
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,159
and the postmoners philosophers actually goes back to the post

710
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:41,079
Luther movements of higher textual criticism, deconstructing these texts down

711
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:44,639
to well, we don't really know what Jesus taught, and

712
00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:46,920
we don't really know who the authors of these gospels are.

713
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,039
And so if you remember, there used to be this

714
00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:52,199
thing called the Jesus Quest, and this was this, you know,

715
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,559
globalist promoted thing of scholars who are a bunch of

716
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,320
skittles people, shocker, who decided that we only know about

717
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,079
two to three percent of what Jesus actually said. The

718
00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:06,400
rest of what's in the gospels are these accretions of traditions.

719
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,360
So what do we get this idea that there's these

720
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,639
accretions of traditions. Well, it sounds a lot like the Protestants,

721
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:14,760
doesn't it. Yeah, So in other words, it's the same

722
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,159
idea of Protestantism. And you'll notice that a lot of

723
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:21,119
the deconstructionists in the Christian world, they keep linking themselves

724
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:23,840
to Luther. They're like, we're just the next phase of

725
00:42:24,039 --> 00:42:27,440
Luther's deconstructing and getting rid of the traditions of men

726
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:31,280
and the accretions. How often do you hear evangelicals say,

727
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,119
I don't follow traditions of men, I follow the Bible

728
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:36,719
of Jesus's word, and you believe in the traditions of

729
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,559
men and your adults and your acons. This is just

730
00:42:39,639 --> 00:42:44,079
the next level of that by assuming that higher criticism

731
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:46,800
can now be applied to every aspect of your own life.

732
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,280
In other words, higher criticism was in academia. askTel said,

733
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,920
this is doing deconstructing and higher criticism in your own

734
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,559
personal walk in life. To say, you don't know what

735
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:59,119
these words mean. You don't know what the original Jesus was.

736
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,280
Nobody knows what the original Jesus taught, if he even existed, right.

737
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 5: Well, and Dan McClellan rejects a historical Christ.

738
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,639
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well there you go.

739
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,199
Speaker 5: I mean, does he say, why is it like he

740
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,400
just said that we have no historical evidence for his existence?

741
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,119
Speaker 4: And then he makes the caveat.

742
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 5: You know, we don't have the historical evidence for a

743
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,280
lot of people that existed at the time, and therefore

744
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,800
the only thing we can base it on is references

745
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:26,119
in the New Testament.

746
00:43:26,199 --> 00:43:28,079
Speaker 4: Basically that one of the videos.

747
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 3: Okay, did Joseph Smith not I mean I thought Joseph

748
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,039
Smith was a prophet from God? Did he not know

749
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:35,719
this wisdom that McLellan has that there's no evidence for

750
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,360
Jesus Christ.

751
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 4: I have a good question.

752
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,519
Speaker 3: I mean that's true. That would mean that Joseph Smith

753
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:44,480
was a false prophet. Because Joseh Smith didn't tell us

754
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:45,760
that Jesus didn't exist.

755
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 5: We don't have any Well, you know, Mormonism is the

756
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,000
first world religion to join the World Transhumanist Association.

757
00:43:51,599 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 3: I remember you saying that I did not. Yeah, that

758
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:54,599
was fascinating. Yeah.

759
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 5: Lincoln Cannon is the is the head of the Mormon

760
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,239
Transhumanist Association the MT and he makes the argument that

761
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:05,440
one doesn't have to be a Mormon to be a transhumanist,

762
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:08,440
but to be a Mormon is to be a transhumanist,

763
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:12,320
whether explicitly or implicitly. And they're part of this very

764
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:18,400
liberalizing transhuman morphological freedom movement within Mormonism, and of course

765
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,480
Mormonism just condone same sex marriage.

766
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 4: Was that like three or four years.

767
00:44:22,679 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 5: Ago, So now it's okay within the Church of Latter

768
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,880
day Saints. So I suspect that DAN is part of

769
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,960
the same, like liberalizing all these Mormons that have academic degrees.

770
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're probably the Mormons, the Mormons that are

771
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,559
now pro Skittles, right, as we've seen that emerge in

772
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:42,639
the last twenty or so years where the Mormon Church

773
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:46,639
has shifted away from their anti Skittles stance. Interestingly, yep.

774
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,639
Now again, a lot of the articles that you'll see

775
00:44:51,679 --> 00:44:53,719
when you read about this will that pop up. They

776
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,159
really like this house analogy, which is interesting because we

777
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,400
kind of agree with that from a presubpositional, you know, perspective, like, yeah,

778
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,559
you have these foundational beliefs and then the rest of

779
00:45:04,559 --> 00:45:08,360
your beliefs are kind of built on those presubpositions, those

780
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,239
foundations that you have that make up your worldview. But

781
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,159
what they'll always say in these articles and these explanations

782
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,760
is to deconstruct is actually a process. It can be different,

783
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,559
but it is taking a part every idea, practice, tradition,

784
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,719
and belief into smaller components. So you basically break everything

785
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,840
down into these parts, and then you try to figure out,

786
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,599
how do you know that little part is true? How

787
00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:36,760
do you know this little part's true? And so it's

788
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,559
ironically it's like an evil version of what we do

789
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:42,840
when we presupt people, right, where we're actually getting them

790
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,119
to question their presubpositions. The difference is that this is

791
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:48,599
like atheist presup where they're trying to get people to

792
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:52,920
become atheists right because they say, oh, it's a painful process,

793
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,320
but you may have to do this because you don't

794
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,360
really know. And now here's another thing I want to

795
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:01,880
come to, which is this is actually a fallacy. I've

796
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,800
noticed in a lot of these people when they describe

797
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:08,559
their journey, they commit the genetic fallacy. They will think

798
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:11,559
that when they deconstruct and they get to this point

799
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:14,320
where it's like, well, I just realized, like I got

800
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:18,920
that from my mom, like my mom raised me with this. Well,

801
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,440
first of all, that it came from your mom is

802
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:25,760
just the origin of the belief. That has nothing to

803
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,119
do with whether it's true or false.

804
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 4: Right.

805
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 3: But they'll oftentimes make this lead, which is the genetic fallacy,

806
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,000
to say that I mean, why should I believe something

807
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:37,159
just because my mom said it. Well, that's true, and

808
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:39,480
it's okay to ask that question, but also it's not

809
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:42,079
false just because your mom said it. In fact, the

810
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:44,039
fact that your mom said has nothing to do with

811
00:46:44,119 --> 00:46:46,639
whether it's true or false. And so there's a lot

812
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:48,800
of genetic fallacy going on with a lot of these people.

813
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 5: Well, and I would say authoritative fallacy too, fallacy of authority,

814
00:46:53,519 --> 00:46:57,440
because Dan constantly refers that what he's presenting as the

815
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,480
state of religious scholarship.

816
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 4: So he's just behalf of the academy.

817
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 5: So if you have problems with him, then you have

818
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:09,639
problems with contemporary biblical scholarship. And one of the academic criticisms,

819
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,480
I mean, because deconstructionism we've talked, there's plenty of critics

820
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,559
also within the academy. And one of the points I

821
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:18,719
wrote down that is fairly prominent is that it's overly deconstructive,

822
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,239
to the point that it's not constructive at all, as

823
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,159
the point that you're making it just breaks things down

824
00:47:23,199 --> 00:47:25,960
smaller and small and smaller. And so academic critics have

825
00:47:26,039 --> 00:47:29,559
highlighted that its primary focus of exposing contradictions and gaps

826
00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:34,519
and tensions within texts without providing any sort of constructive

827
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:40,400
alternative response, has led people to describe just deconstructionism as nihilistics,

828
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,880
offering offering little in terms of positive or meaningful engagement

829
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:50,760
with any text, especially scriptural textual scholarship. So to your point,

830
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,000
it's just constantly breaking things down into smaller and smaller bits,

831
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,199
and of course, because it's ultimately relativisty, that's all you're

832
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:57,559
left with.

833
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, why isn't that McClelland, for example, deconstructing academia as

834
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:06,400
a system of oppression and power which is promoted what

835
00:48:06,519 --> 00:48:09,239
it's paid to promote. So I can turn the tables

836
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,239
and use this very same argument, which I actually would do,

837
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,800
and I actually say that there's actually an agenda and

838
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,559
a reason why the scholarship that you're appealing to in

839
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:20,239
this fallacy of authority is promoted in academia, and that's

840
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,840
because academia is corrupt, which, by the way, he believes

841
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,039
that academia in prior generations was corrupt because it promoted

842
00:48:28,039 --> 00:48:32,280
the patriarchal, fallocentric narratives. Oh, but now it's not corrupt,

843
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,519
and we're supposed to just default to these people as

844
00:48:34,519 --> 00:48:37,039
if they're not corrupt anymore, when they're actually way more

845
00:48:37,079 --> 00:48:40,440
corrupt because they push the most ridiculous, like you know,

846
00:48:40,639 --> 00:48:44,960
like even just totally degenerate stuff from academia. They're the spearhead,

847
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:46,840
they're the tip of the spear of all of this

848
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:53,039
revolution against you know, what is just common decency. Now,

849
00:48:53,079 --> 00:48:55,280
this article that I'm looking at here from the Sophia

850
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,440
Society about deconstructing your faith, it actually goes on to

851
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,960
describe again the breaking down of your paradigm, which is

852
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,760
the stuff that you talk about, and it says that

853
00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:08,559
as you get older, you will realize that you encounter

854
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,079
situations in life that don't fit with this paradigm. Now

855
00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:16,559
that's actually true, I think for evangelicals, right, Evangelicalism, as

856
00:49:16,599 --> 00:49:19,159
you said, is an anti intellectual movement from the outset,

857
00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:23,719
and so it doesn't really equip people to handle really complex,

858
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:29,280
nuanced situations. For example, evangelicalism can't tell you anything about geopolitics.

859
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,239
They're usually totally ignorant about that. So when they're confronted

860
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:38,119
with geopolitical issues like war, mass immigration, borders, they don't

861
00:49:38,119 --> 00:49:40,559
have any coherent answer to that because it's an anti

862
00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:46,440
intellectual ahistorical scale down, lowest calm denominator position, oftentimes based

863
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,559
on emotionalism. I converted in a big tent revival because

864
00:49:51,599 --> 00:49:53,679
I was crying and the preacher made me feel bad.

865
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,880
And so it's a pseudo Christianity that causes people to

866
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,199
get angry and doesn't have any grounding or any coherent worldview,

867
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:05,639
and that's why these people are so easily let out

868
00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:07,920
of this religion. Is that a pattern you've.

869
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 5: Noticed, Well, you mentioned the ahistorical dimension of evangelical Christianity,

870
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,119
and I think when you're speaking, what kind of popped

871
00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:19,119
in my head is that's another connector with what deconstructionism

872
00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:22,400
is doing, because it's constantly trying to undermine tradition, because

873
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:28,280
history itself is plagued with injustices and all these different

874
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,519
things that they're trying to correct. So deconstructionism is, i mean,

875
00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:36,119
really part of these critical scholarship or Marxist theories about

876
00:50:36,119 --> 00:50:38,679
paving a new beginning point in history, right, so it

877
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,960
has to undermine and flatten everything that came before it,

878
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,679
And Evangelical Christianity is sort of ahistorical, and so it's

879
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,559
able to sort of bridge that gap even quicker because

880
00:50:48,599 --> 00:50:51,559
it doesn't have any long standing traditions to uphold.

881
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,159
Speaker 3: Keep in mind, tradition is a key area of war

882
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,280
for these people. That's just showing that they're even the

883
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:03,199
they're the next logical revolutionary extension of Protestanism. Protestantism was

884
00:51:03,199 --> 00:51:06,760
all about deconstructing the Catholicism of that day to get

885
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:09,880
rid of the accretions of tradition of the papacy, some

886
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,360
of which are actual legitimate criticisms, but from an orthodox

887
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,519
perspective we would disagree with both. But again keep in mind,

888
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:17,239
the idea is, oh, I got to get rid of

889
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,800
the man made traditions. Well, the assumption then is that, well,

890
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:23,119
how do you know there's not man made traditions in

891
00:51:23,159 --> 00:51:27,760
this book that men decided to to put together. Oh,

892
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,519
I guess there could be could in there. So now

893
00:51:29,559 --> 00:51:31,559
I have to scale down all of those things. And

894
00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:33,199
even in my own life. Wait a minute, how do

895
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,199
I know I'm not believing in man made traditions? You

896
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,119
may be. So it's this scaling down process of lowest

897
00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:44,880
common denominator which Protestantism was built on. Ecumenism is also

898
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,800
built on the same idea that it's not a holistic thing.

899
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,639
Everything is piecemeal, broken down. It's all based on independent,

900
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:56,840
little data points that don't connect in any holistic, meaningful way.

901
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:01,840
So there's a necessary anti holistic perspective that undergirds all

902
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:02,440
this as well.

903
00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 5: And the deconstructionists are sort of ahistorical in the sense

904
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,119
that they view themselves not within a historical context.

905
00:52:10,199 --> 00:52:12,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're in a privileged position exactly.

906
00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's influencing their beliefs, their interpretations, their perceptions, and

907
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,559
so they stand on this pedestal where they're able to

908
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:22,960
criticize all of history and talk about the historical injustices

909
00:52:23,159 --> 00:52:25,039
and corrections that need to be made.

910
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, not recognize.

911
00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:34,639
Speaker 3: Let me start over. Can you hear me?

912
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 4: I can hear you?

913
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: Fine, Okay, you're frozen, So let me see. Oh I

914
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:42,760
think we are back.

915
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 4: I think we are back.

916
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:51,079
Speaker 3: Yeah we are Yeah. I think do.

917
00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 4: I need to back out and come back in?

918
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's try that. I think it's just stream lives

919
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,360
crash was all it was, because it doesn't look like

920
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,519
the internet went out, but we should be back. Yeah,

921
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:06,079
So it was just something happened with Sometimes collab cam

922
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:09,159
doesn't work that great. Usually it works, but as you

923
00:53:09,199 --> 00:53:13,719
guys probably know, every now and then collab cam will

924
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,360
kind of crash and then I think it just crashed. Obs.

925
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,960
But okay, so we're back. I forget where we were,

926
00:53:20,039 --> 00:53:21,599
But do you remember what we're talking about.

927
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,559
Speaker 5: The last point I was making was the the ahistorical

928
00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:31,800
context of evangelical Christianity and deconstructionism and how people like

929
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,000
Dan kind.

930
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: Of us historically situated.

931
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 5: That's right, Yeah, do not view themselves historically situated, and

932
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,639
therefore they which transhumanism also argues, is that we're moving

933
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,880
to the point where the post humanity is a person

934
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:50,000
who's no longer within the historical context itself and therefore

935
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:52,719
is no longer constrained by these historical context because we're

936
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,920
moving to utopia. So I was just making that point

937
00:53:57,079 --> 00:54:01,760
about deconstructionism and evangelical Christianity sharing that ahistorical nature.

938
00:54:02,039 --> 00:54:05,079
Speaker 3: Well, here's a this is that's perfect timing because this

939
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,519
article over here at Sophia's Society about deconstructing. The next

940
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:12,039
example they give is precisely about being historically situated. So

941
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:14,960
I'll read this briefly and you can understand them what

942
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,039
we're talking about. Let me give an example of deconstructing

943
00:54:18,039 --> 00:54:20,000
a young child grows up in a loving home with

944
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:25,199
a doting kind with doting kind parents that subconsciously believe

945
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,920
that all people are good. Why would this child have

946
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,920
any reason or cause to believe otherwise? All he or

947
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,599
she has ever known is the love, goodness, and warmth

948
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:36,960
of their family. The second child. But the second this

949
00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:39,199
child encounters or witnesses someone in the world who is

950
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,280
therefore not kind, they begin to doubt this belief that

951
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,119
all people are good. Thus their worldview is shattered. How

952
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:49,800
is the child to make sense of this encounter? Often

953
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,800
they react by categorizing people then either as all good

954
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,800
or all bad. All that all and that works for

955
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:00,280
a while until until they've encountered someone who is that

956
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,280
they previously thought was good, doing something bad, or vice versa. Slowly,

957
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,199
then the paradigm must be rebuilt and shift to reflect

958
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:11,280
the reality now that not everyone is good, some people

959
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,039
can do good and bad, some people are largely good

960
00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:16,719
or largely bad. As you can see without the ability

961
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,400
to deconstruct something that was previously useful in the case

962
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,280
of the child, new information then comes in which qualifies

963
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,599
this simplistic black and white attitude. Thus they no longer

964
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:30,280
have a dualistic way of seeing the world, because it

965
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,719
would only get them so far, so far. Thus this

966
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,559
is true also for our faith. When we're young, we

967
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:39,920
believe that whatever we were taught about God, Earth, after life,

968
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,079
and human nature is true. After a while, though, we

969
00:55:43,159 --> 00:55:47,719
usually have to develop and reflect upon new information, and

970
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,880
thus we go into new stages of beliefs. People don't

971
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,760
usually try to explain the doctrine of, for example, total

972
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,239
depravity to if you're a Calvinist, to a four year old,

973
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,480
but they tell them basic ideas about Adam and Eve

974
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:02,239
and the fall. And thus, for example, a child is

975
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,000
taught Calvinistic told depravity and they're raised with this presupposition.

976
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:09,840
Now that's all well and good, and I would agree

977
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,559
that that's a fine example, but none of that actually

978
00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:16,639
tells us though, which beliefs are true or false. Again,

979
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,079
because we're raised with something, we might actually be raised

980
00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:24,360
with a belief that's that's true. Right, So the deconstructing

981
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,920
process is in part can be not necessarily, but it

982
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,400
can be built on fallacies. It can be built on

983
00:56:33,079 --> 00:56:37,079
illogical non sequit or conclusions that we make just because

984
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:39,880
we're raised with something. And they try to always say

985
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,440
that The article goes on to say, deconstruction does not

986
00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:45,400
mean that your faith must die. It simply means that

987
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,360
you have to update your faith and take into account

988
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,360
new information. But whoever said that we didn't do that anyway?

989
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,119
Like where was I mean maybe within the realm of

990
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:58,960
really fundamentalist evangelicalism. This is something that is true. But

991
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,360
as you can see, they're they're taking something that we

992
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,320
would agree with that you do need to kind of

993
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,519
question these presuppositions. Then they're saying, see, you need to

994
00:57:07,559 --> 00:57:10,000
become an atheistic liberal is basically what it is. So

995
00:57:10,039 --> 00:57:11,880
it does it mean that you become a more coherent

996
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,599
version of Christianity? They're said, say, I know, you've got

997
00:57:14,639 --> 00:57:16,559
to be like an atheist or like a total progressive

998
00:57:16,599 --> 00:57:18,000
cucked Christianity.

999
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 5: Right right, And and that's again one of the leading

1000
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:26,880
criticisms by academics regarding deconstruction is that it's ultimately relativistic.

1001
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:30,440
And I have a point here that an academic made

1002
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:33,000
is they argue that by focusing on the endless play

1003
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,239
of language and meeting, deconstruction can suggest that all readings

1004
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:39,760
are inherently unstable, which can paralyze interpretation rather than aid

1005
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,039
it in any way. And that's that's exactly what we're

1006
00:57:43,079 --> 00:57:47,960
getting at by building something on fallacious fallacies. You know,

1007
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:51,639
that stuff's really never brought into question within deconstructionism. It's

1008
00:57:51,639 --> 00:57:54,719
just constantly undermining whatever they can through.

1009
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, that's why. And that's why you said ultimately

1010
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,639
it's nihilistic. Now and if you doubt that, just as

1011
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:04,360
an example, at this Sophia Society where they're telling you

1012
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,760
and that there's like tons of articles about how you deconstruct,

1013
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,159
what it means to deconstruct, how do you relate to

1014
00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:10,199
your family? Let me read you a couple of the

1015
00:58:10,239 --> 00:58:13,639
other articles that help you after you begin to deconstruct.

1016
00:58:14,639 --> 00:58:17,039
This is a necessary death. You don't have to be

1017
00:58:17,079 --> 00:58:24,119
good recovering from evangelicalism. Jesus is queer. So I feel

1018
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:27,840
like like maybe there's an agenda here, Like I don't

1019
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,360
know what you guys think. Do you see any patterns here?

1020
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,559
I don't know so, but yeah, but what's where again?

1021
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:38,639
Remember this is like this is the domain of evangelicalism,

1022
00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:42,000
and I guess this Sophia Society is some sort of

1023
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:46,400
like hub of deconstructionism. Now, there's another article here that

1024
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,880
says what does it mean to deconstruct? Well, here's your

1025
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,519
guide to doing it, and you're not going to be

1026
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:57,360
surprised as to what you will begin to see. Rethinking

1027
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:02,679
Christian sexuality, liberation, theology, why it doesn't work to try

1028
00:59:02,719 --> 00:59:06,639
to be pure in terms of sexuality, making sense of

1029
00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:11,280
the Bible post deconstruction, reframing your relationship with the Bible.

1030
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:14,800
So notice that it's all it's all about the book

1031
00:59:15,559 --> 00:59:19,280
right now. Wait a minute, it gets better understanding the

1032
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:25,239
divine feminine. Wait a minute, what is patriarchy? Deconstructing patriarchy?

1033
00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:29,400
God is our mother? Now, wait a minute, why is

1034
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,079
the goddess gaia narrative not a narrative that needs to

1035
00:59:33,159 --> 00:59:33,840
be constructed?

1036
00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 4: David, exactly, that's exactly it.

1037
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,719
Speaker 5: Well again, one of my third criticism of it is

1038
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:44,119
the subjective, reader centric interpretation. So as you're highlighting with

1039
00:59:44,119 --> 00:59:48,000
all these article titles, they're taking the progressive narrative and

1040
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:51,320
then just reinserting that as a critical basis to undermine scripture.

1041
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:56,159
And so deconstruction has been criticized for privileging the reader's

1042
00:59:56,199 --> 01:00:00,400
interpretation over the text itself and allowing personal by ICs

1043
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:05,920
and theoretical predispositions to dominate the reading process, and therefore,

1044
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,880
what exactly are we getting at here? It's just it's

1045
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:13,360
just a it's a it's really a intellectual militaristic attack.

1046
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:15,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good way. It's a weapon because listen

1047
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,000
to the next couple of articles here deconstructing Donald Trump,

1048
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:26,480
reclaiming Christian politics for the DNC, of course, the politics

1049
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:32,400
of Jesus, deconstructing Christian nationalism. So basically, it's just anything

1050
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:36,400
that is not total like you know, democratic party platform,

1051
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:42,559
it needs to be deconstructed, right, black liberation, white evangelical racism. Right.

1052
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:46,679
It's again, it's like totally obvious just seeing the article

1053
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,559
titles that this whole thing is literally just a like

1054
01:00:51,039 --> 01:00:53,239
I mean, it's probably they're probably getting money from like

1055
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:55,559
the d n C Soros, you know what I mean,

1056
01:00:55,679 --> 01:00:59,079
Like like black Rock is, like it's probably funded by

1057
01:00:59,079 --> 01:01:00,960
all that. I believe it.

1058
01:01:01,079 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 6: Well.

1059
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 4: In regards to biblical.

1060
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:07,239
Speaker 5: Criticism too, from what some of the academic critical analysis

1061
01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:10,159
of deconstruction, I saw a few that argue that it's

1062
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,000
especially bad in biblical studies, where they kind of stretch

1063
01:01:14,079 --> 01:01:17,480
beyond the philosophical roots and even the context of what

1064
01:01:17,519 --> 01:01:20,960
deconstruction was supposed to do and kind of apply it

1065
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:25,800
indiscriminately across various disciplines. And so the rigorous philosophical foundation

1066
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,360
of deconstruction, grounded in Derita's complex theories of language and metaphysics,

1067
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:34,480
is often simplified and then even misapplied in ways that

1068
01:01:34,599 --> 01:01:38,920
lose total philosophical nuance, leading to the superficial sort of

1069
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,400
misguided readings and interpretations.

1070
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 3: Right, so Trump is a manifestation of the patriarchy, this

1071
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:47,039
kind of stuff.

1072
01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:49,199
Speaker 5: Right, Well, Dan actually made a video I was going

1073
01:01:49,239 --> 01:01:52,440
through his YouTube channel, and it's a vertical video I

1074
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:53,719
think he filmed on his phone.

1075
01:01:54,239 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 4: People can find if you put in his name.

1076
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,599
Speaker 5: And the whole thing was about how Donald Trump and

1077
01:01:58,639 --> 01:02:01,559
those who support him are part of a cult. And

1078
01:02:01,599 --> 01:02:04,920
he used the imagery of idle worship and the golden

1079
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,480
calf of the Old Testament to demonstrate that that's what

1080
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,400
MAGA supporters are doing with Donald Trump. And therefore, if

1081
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:13,480
anybody is a cult, and if anybody is idolatrous, it's

1082
01:02:13,599 --> 01:02:15,159
Christians who support Donald Trump.

1083
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what makes the most sense is that Jesus

1084
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,039
was queer. And this was written by a tra in

1085
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:32,400
z Tia and z individual shocker who is pictured here

1086
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:37,480
all about BLM shocker of course not a black person,

1087
01:02:38,159 --> 01:02:43,639
right right, But I mean it's all I need to

1088
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,159
know there, But it's also I wanted to mention this too.

1089
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:49,119
This is also connected to again this movement from a

1090
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:53,559
couple of decades ago called the Emerging Church movement, which

1091
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:56,599
was equated with the Emergent movement, a Christian movement in

1092
01:02:56,639 --> 01:02:58,960
late twentieth century early twenty first century, so nineties and

1093
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,559
two thousands. Emerging churches are found all around the globe,

1094
01:03:01,599 --> 01:03:04,559
particularly though in North America. And if I remember, this

1095
01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:08,199
had some original origin source coming out of like ex

1096
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:12,199
Episcopal Anglican people, so it's being sused from the beginning.

1097
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,360
But this is kind of the seedbed from which now

1098
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:25,039
the deconstructing movement has grown. The idea is that people

1099
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:30,719
were tired of their traditional quote unquote churches. So even

1100
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:35,159
Protestanism was getting bored with Baptist hymns and Episcopal hymns,

1101
01:03:35,519 --> 01:03:38,559
and so they decided to start making house churches. So

1102
01:03:38,599 --> 01:03:40,679
if you remember in the nineties, this popped off, and

1103
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:42,239
I know because I used to go to house church

1104
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,119
meetings in the nineties. I was immediately sort of swept

1105
01:03:46,159 --> 01:03:50,480
up into this stupid house church movement because I thought, well,

1106
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,840
the New Testament says they met in households, that must

1107
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,880
mean low church house churches. I don't know if you've

1108
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:58,960
heard of this or familiar with this, but the idea

1109
01:03:59,039 --> 01:04:04,760
being that all of the religious imagery, investments and incense

1110
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,440
or any of that kind of stuff are the trappings

1111
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,800
and the traditions of men. We got to get back

1112
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:14,760
down to this like simplified living. But what's interesting is

1113
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,039
that it's not just about that. It comes out of

1114
01:04:17,079 --> 01:04:22,199
the home church movement, because some of the people who

1115
01:04:22,239 --> 01:04:24,679
were in the mergent church movement wanted to have liturgy,

1116
01:04:24,719 --> 01:04:28,039
they wanted to have these elements. So there's no cohesive

1117
01:04:28,239 --> 01:04:30,960
like actual doctrine or anything. It's just this sort of

1118
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,679
like hippiest Jesus idea of like like Jesus was like,

1119
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:37,159
you know, against the men or whatever. Do you remember

1120
01:04:37,159 --> 01:04:40,280
the Jesus People movement? Yeah, you know that. I had

1121
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:42,639
a lot of CIA connections in terms of its word.

1122
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:46,480
And this is where you get the Vineyard movement. And

1123
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:52,039
this is where you get what's it called the FDA

1124
01:04:52,159 --> 01:04:53,679
used to be in this. He was raising this the

1125
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:58,480
I'm going blank. No, the out of California, the denomination

1126
01:04:58,519 --> 01:05:03,000
out of California that was burned by by these people,

1127
01:05:03,079 --> 01:05:07,039
one of whom was actually in the CIA. No, I'm

1128
01:05:07,079 --> 01:05:12,599
serious Calvary Chapel. Oh, so the whole Calvary Chapel movement

1129
01:05:12,639 --> 01:05:15,960
comes out of the Jesus People movement in the sixties

1130
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,679
and seventies, who were these hippies that converted to Jesus.

1131
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,119
A lot of them read Late Great Planet Earth by

1132
01:05:23,199 --> 01:05:25,519
how Lindsay later on in the eighties, and and so

1133
01:05:25,559 --> 01:05:28,480
a lot of this like evangelical end time stuff was

1134
01:05:28,679 --> 01:05:33,360
influencing these hippie christian these hippies to convert to this

1135
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:38,480
weird evangelical Christianity that unfortunately spawned a bunch of charismatic movements,

1136
01:05:38,519 --> 01:05:43,239
the Vineyard Movement and the Calvary Chapel movement. And I'm

1137
01:05:43,239 --> 01:05:45,599
going blank on the guy who was the Calvary Chapel

1138
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,400
CIA guy, but he's one of the main early founders.

1139
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,840
Saddleback also has these connections. I don't doubt that that's it,

1140
01:05:53,039 --> 01:05:57,119
Chuck Smith. And there's even deeper connections too, because some

1141
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:03,159
of the guys were were actual Green Beret CIA operatives

1142
01:06:03,239 --> 01:06:06,920
in Vietnam. Now I'm not trying to be overly conspiratorial

1143
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:10,320
like they just they may just have been like low

1144
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,960
tier evangelical, you know, Vietnam guys who thought like Boomers

1145
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,679
that we gotta fight for America. So we're gonna we're

1146
01:06:17,679 --> 01:06:20,320
gonna start at Jesus Church. We're gonna call it Calvert

1147
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,000
Chapel because we're gona get back to the basics. And

1148
01:06:22,039 --> 01:06:23,159
do you know what I mean? They might have had

1149
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:26,320
good motivations, But what you start to notice is that

1150
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,400
a lot of these people like exactly Elon, like Rick Warren,

1151
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:33,360
Why are they suddenly associated with Obama and the Council

1152
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,000
form Relations? Are you familiar with that?

1153
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:36,039
Speaker 4: Well?

1154
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 5: And Rick Warren is spoke kind of favorably about transhuman

1155
01:06:41,519 --> 01:06:46,320
like eschatology, and so he was actually I read read

1156
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,119
an article it was on oh here it is the

1157
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:53,440
Singularity and the Rapture Transhumanists and popular Christian views of

1158
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:57,239
the future in which people like hal Lindsay and Rick

1159
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:02,159
Warren are mentioned specifically about how they are constructing this

1160
01:07:02,199 --> 01:07:06,880
sort of rapture. Escatology very similar has very similar accouterments

1161
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,880
to technological advance being part of God's divine plan that

1162
01:07:11,239 --> 01:07:15,440
transhumanists kind of put forth. So I don't follow Rick

1163
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:18,880
Warren super close, but when you said that, it kind

1164
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,239
of popped out, because if he's associating with those types

1165
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,280
of groups and people like Obama kind of makes sense

1166
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:27,480
then maybe why he's constructing an eschatology for his following

1167
01:07:27,519 --> 01:07:28,880
that kind of mimics some.

1168
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,519
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a great point. I didn't actually know that,

1169
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:36,719
but I think people started noticing there was something obviously

1170
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:40,480
sus with Rick Warren when if you remember back in

1171
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,559
the two thousands, when purpose driven Life got really popular

1172
01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:47,920
and started selling like mega mega millions, it wasn't too

1173
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,679
long after that that suddenly he was associated with Obama

1174
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:56,360
and he flipped his position on Skittle's marriage. Did you

1175
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,239
know that that was back? That was back in the

1176
01:07:59,239 --> 01:08:01,599
two thousands.

1177
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:06,239
Speaker 4: Seems to kind of be his mo now.

1178
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,119
Speaker 3: Trying to find there's a great article that was written

1179
01:08:08,119 --> 01:08:10,400
many years ago, it's really hard to find. It's kind

1180
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:15,519
of been memory hold, but there's it's about the Jesus

1181
01:08:15,519 --> 01:08:20,159
people and the people in it that did have these

1182
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,319
sort of CIA connections. I'm looking through my old archived

1183
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:26,079
articles of stuff to see if I could by chance

1184
01:08:26,199 --> 01:08:31,640
find it, but I don't know. It was on an

1185
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,720
evangelical website of all places, and then that website got

1186
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:37,359
taken down and then it got put at some other

1187
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:42,640
weird website. But but yes, there is those there is

1188
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,479
that connection there. Again, I'm not saying that that makes

1189
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,199
that's it. It was the Antipus article exactly, thank you,

1190
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,119
But I don't think that website exists anymore. So that's

1191
01:08:51,119 --> 01:08:54,119
the problem is that you can't really find that. No,

1192
01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:57,640
SII go away. I don't want you go away.

1193
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,159
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, she went away.

1194
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 3: The lists exactly right. Maybe I'm four sex both now hahaha. Uh,

1195
01:09:11,039 --> 01:09:15,079
let's see, Lonnie Lonnie Frisbee might have also been one

1196
01:09:15,119 --> 01:09:18,079
of those people who was like a Vietnam black opsky

1197
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:22,000
or something crazy. Uh.

1198
01:09:22,119 --> 01:09:24,199
Speaker 4: Peter in the chat said, wasn't it Rick Warren that

1199
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:25,319
gave the.

1200
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 5: Intimous speech at the World Economic Form that they need

1201
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:29,560
to incorporate faith into their movement?

1202
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 3: Who who was it?

1203
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:32,760
Speaker 4: Oh?

1204
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 6: Peter in the chat said, Rick Warren was the person

1205
01:09:35,039 --> 01:09:38,039
who did that spoke at the WEF about how they

1206
01:09:38,079 --> 01:09:40,920
need to incorporate faith, which is really I mean, you've

1207
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,359
brought you've read it too, Homa days by you've all known.

1208
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 5: Rob That's the whole thing about it dat it isn't constructing.

1209
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:49,399
Speaker 3: The I haven't ready I got it, but by the

1210
01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:52,399
way I found the article. So I know this sounds crazy,

1211
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:56,159
but this article, which is actually pretty good, has been

1212
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:02,399
stored at Irosta website. So of all places this has

1213
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,000
been archived. That it used to be at an evangelical

1214
01:10:05,079 --> 01:10:09,079
website that was critiquing Calbert Chapel. So but now it's

1215
01:10:09,079 --> 01:10:20,119
at a website called the dub Room Room Brada. So

1216
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,680
there's the article, and it's by an evangelical woman who's

1217
01:10:24,720 --> 01:10:28,119
not Rosta, but her name was Barbara ajo Uh. And

1218
01:10:28,159 --> 01:10:30,399
it goes into a long critique of the Jesus People

1219
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:35,680
movement and the odd characters and odd balls behind it. Particularly.

1220
01:10:36,359 --> 01:10:40,319
Let's see the antipaus papers written by sh R. Shearer

1221
01:10:41,239 --> 01:10:45,920
identify his intelligence assignments before and during the time of

1222
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,479
the Jesus People Moving fro nineteen sixty seven nineteen seventy two.

1223
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,319
He served as an intelligence officer in Europe during Vietnam

1224
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:54,720
the Intelligence Group, the five hundred and twenty fifth Division

1225
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,159
in the five hundred and fifteenth counter Intelligence Operative Group

1226
01:10:58,399 --> 01:11:01,600
nineteen seventy two, resign commission to become a pastor for

1227
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:05,239
the Jesus People in Washington, d C. This is again

1228
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,560
kind of the birthing of all this, these weird movements

1229
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,439
that we're talking about. Now, remember there is this is

1230
01:11:12,119 --> 01:11:16,039
the deep state connection to just this. This is the

1231
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:19,680
non denominational movement's birth. It comes out of this stuff.

1232
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,520
You have to understand that. That's why I'm talking about this,

1233
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,000
because you're not going to be able to separate all

1234
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:28,920
this emergent church stuff from the same funding, the same sources,

1235
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,800
the same origins. And that's why this is where you

1236
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,000
get the Are you familiar with the Vineyard movement the

1237
01:11:34,039 --> 01:11:39,840
crazy stuff? Yeah, so that's these people too, Council for

1238
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,119
National Policy, that's the fake right wing version of the

1239
01:11:43,159 --> 01:11:47,399
CFR anyway, so people can go read that there. We're

1240
01:11:47,399 --> 01:11:49,600
not going to go down that rabbit hole. But but yeah,

1241
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,279
that's another angle that you have to understand to this,

1242
01:11:51,319 --> 01:11:54,479
which is that so basically that movement of sixties Jesus

1243
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:58,520
People gives you Calvary Chapel, gives you Vineyard Movement, it

1244
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,439
gives you modern charismaticism, gives you the revivalist movements of

1245
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,640
the charismatic groups gives you no denominationalism. It all comes

1246
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:07,840
out of that, and that's all a bunch of like

1247
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:17,159
literal pentagon deeps day people. Right, all right, well we'll

1248
01:12:17,159 --> 01:12:17,680
try again.

1249
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 4: I can here. Let me back out real quick and join.

1250
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:33,520
Speaker 3: All right, we should be back.

1251
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 4: So OBS is on one today.

1252
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going on. I've never had it

1253
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,840
be this fussy, but anyway, maybe we can try to

1254
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,960
get through some of this before. I know you're gonna

1255
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,239
have to go pretty soon. But we got a couple

1256
01:12:49,239 --> 01:12:51,199
of super chats. I'll read some of those before this

1257
01:12:51,359 --> 01:12:54,000
gets collapsed and nobody gets their superchats. Read Storm the

1258
01:12:54,039 --> 01:12:56,159
Cat ten dollars. I have a friend who's not a Christian,

1259
01:12:56,159 --> 01:12:58,760
but unfortunately she's some kind of red pill person on

1260
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,039
certain things. And she's even noticed how utterly satanic modern

1261
01:13:02,079 --> 01:13:05,359
punk rock music is. He excuse me, he said punk

1262
01:13:05,399 --> 01:13:09,079
shows are full of skills, pride, and everybody has a

1263
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:12,399
colored bathomet statues everywhere. I'm not surprised that sounds exactly

1264
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:13,880
what I mean, But I mean, the punk scene was

1265
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,239
always kind of like adjacent to a lot of that stuff,

1266
01:13:17,239 --> 01:13:19,359
and so it's weird that what was supposed to be

1267
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:22,319
like you know, the most rebellious music is the most

1268
01:13:22,399 --> 01:13:27,039
establishment now ye anonymous and seven dollars, thank you so much,

1269
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,359
Jeffrey Klein. Five dollars. I saw a progressive post that

1270
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,359
was arguing that immigration law is against scripture and they

1271
01:13:34,359 --> 01:13:37,239
were using terrible theology. Yeah, I think most of the

1272
01:13:37,239 --> 01:13:39,159
time they do. I mean, I've seen a lot of

1273
01:13:39,279 --> 01:13:42,680
attempts by evangelicals to argue that we show totally open borders.

1274
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,000
I think even Gavin Ortlund was arguing that, which I

1275
01:13:45,039 --> 01:13:48,640
think is preposterous. I think even Peter Leiheart was arguing

1276
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,119
that that. But I mean, that's all just I mean,

1277
01:13:51,199 --> 01:13:53,680
to me, that's just fundamentally stupid. I mean, when as

1278
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,760
any orthodox nation ever thought that you're supposed to have

1279
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,319
totally open borders, just totally This is what I mean,

1280
01:13:59,359 --> 01:14:00,960
this is what happens when you become a Protestant, you

1281
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,279
deny all tradition of the church, right right, swim of

1282
01:14:04,319 --> 01:14:06,279
the capt ten dollars. I know we already did excuse me,

1283
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:10,239
Ac since twenty bucks question mark, question mark, Well, thank you, AC.

1284
01:14:10,359 --> 01:14:13,159
Appreciate that this is not the only stream. We are

1285
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:16,800
going to do more streams over on cotails channel addressing

1286
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:20,399
the specific challenges that the deconstructions all bring up. Ortho

1287
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:23,680
Dbo three dollars. Who are your favorite saints? And why

1288
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,079
this is off topic? I know, but just want some

1289
01:14:26,119 --> 01:14:28,600
of the lore, keep up the basic, keep up the

1290
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:29,239
based work.

1291
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 5: Well.

1292
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 3: I like Saint Photius a lot. I like Saint Daniel

1293
01:14:32,039 --> 01:14:35,279
from the Bible. I like John, that Saint John, that Theologian.

1294
01:14:35,359 --> 01:14:41,800
I like the Cappadocians. I like Saint anton Asius. Who

1295
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:43,560
are some of your favorite saints?

1296
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:49,800
Speaker 5: Patron is, Saint Patrick of Ireland, Saint George, and I'm

1297
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:54,239
a big fan of Cyprian of Antioch. And Justina Ciprin

1298
01:14:54,359 --> 01:14:57,640
was like a great magician who was trying to cast

1299
01:14:57,640 --> 01:15:01,640
a spell on this pious virgin just they backfired. He

1300
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:06,000
couldn't understand why it didn't work, and ended up giving

1301
01:15:06,039 --> 01:15:08,800
up his faith and burned all his magical text in

1302
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:12,359
the center of the city and became eventually a bishop

1303
01:15:12,399 --> 01:15:15,359
and converted so many pagans that there is no longer

1304
01:15:15,399 --> 01:15:16,880
a magical tradition in his area.

1305
01:15:17,039 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's a great one. Jmail forty dollars. I

1306
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,199
love you both, Thank you, min Well, thank you Jamel.

1307
01:15:23,239 --> 01:15:25,319
We love you too. We appreciate that super chest storm

1308
01:15:25,319 --> 01:15:27,920
the cat five dollars. How come they never deconstruct their

1309
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:32,760
deconstructionism exactly. That's exactly what our point is today. It's

1310
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:36,119
really philosophically nonsensical. But again, it appeals to a lot

1311
01:15:36,119 --> 01:15:41,720
of people precisely because of you know, evangelicalism is an

1312
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,079
anti intellectual movement kind of incipiently, and so people feel

1313
01:15:46,079 --> 01:15:49,920
like they're getting some intellectual meat when they start to

1314
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:54,000
delve into this, you know, kind of sued stuff, and

1315
01:15:54,039 --> 01:15:56,560
it sounds cool and they can make tiktoks talking about

1316
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,760
how they deconstructed everything. That's really what that rat guy

1317
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,600
does from ret and Link is it's it's super low tire,

1318
01:16:02,119 --> 01:16:04,800
like it's just really really like so, like, guys, I

1319
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:07,479
know that, like you probably haven't seen a lot for

1320
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:09,760
me lately, but that's because I've been going through a

1321
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:13,640
process of deconstruction and it's very and they do a

1322
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,439
lot of emotional appeals. They're like, it's gonna be tough

1323
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,159
for you, guys, but we can do this together. And

1324
01:16:19,399 --> 01:16:21,239
one of the things I had to realize is that

1325
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:26,239
like my views on Skittle's people like it was totally

1326
01:16:26,279 --> 01:16:30,119
coming from a place a privilege and oppression. I mean,

1327
01:16:30,119 --> 01:16:31,920
that's a letter of how it goes. And then he

1328
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,960
goes on like how he Mendel's podcast to talk about

1329
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:40,399
how he's you know, he's basically Laptist Christianity or whatever.

1330
01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:42,880
Speaker 4: That's that's pretty sad.

1331
01:16:43,319 --> 01:16:46,560
Speaker 5: I have four points in which I try to deconstruct

1332
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:50,239
deconstructionism and highlight why it fails. So whether you want

1333
01:16:50,239 --> 01:16:52,079
to do that now or before we wrap up the stream,

1334
01:16:52,119 --> 01:16:52,840
I can go through those.

1335
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:54,399
Speaker 3: I go ahead and do it right now, because let's

1336
01:16:54,399 --> 01:16:56,760
get it out what we can before it collapses.

1337
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:01,119
Speaker 5: So I wrote down four points in which essentially deconstructionism

1338
01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:04,159
fails at its ultimate goals. Number one we've kind of

1339
01:17:04,199 --> 01:17:07,399
already hinted at, but the failure to acknowledge a text specificity.

1340
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:10,600
So by treating text as primarily sites of linguistic play,

1341
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,479
deconstruction can fail to engage with specific religious, moral, and

1342
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:18,000
theological claims that biblical texts make. And this undermines the

1343
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,920
possibility of understanding the text as a coherent expression of

1344
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,760
faith and tradition, because, as you said, it's constantly breaking

1345
01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:26,680
things down into smaller and smaller bits, and therefore they

1346
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:30,880
never even approach a comprehensive understanding of a larger meta

1347
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,600
arc because they reject them. And then number two is

1348
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:39,640
the reduction reduction of personal and ideological biases, which we've

1349
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:45,279
already mentioned, but because deconstruction allows for multiple, often contradictory interpretations,

1350
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,359
it can enable individuals to reinterpret scripture in ways that

1351
01:17:48,399 --> 01:17:52,279
align with their contemporary biases. This is particularly problematic and

1352
01:17:52,279 --> 01:17:54,760
religious context where the text is intended to convey a

1353
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:59,840
specific teaching of truth rather than a canvas for endless reinterpretation.

1354
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,920
And then number three is undermining communal and traditional readings,

1355
01:18:04,319 --> 01:18:08,479
is that deconstruction often dismisses interpretive traditions and communal understandings

1356
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:11,520
that have been built around biblical texts. This can be

1357
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:15,399
seen as a form of intellectual colonialism to use their language,

1358
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:20,960
imposing modern, individualistic interpretive frameworks onto ancient texts that were

1359
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,600
meant to be understood within a communal and traditional context.

1360
01:18:24,119 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 3: So that was that's a great point that, by the way,

1361
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,000
applies not just to these people but to every Protestant.

1362
01:18:29,960 --> 01:18:32,479
Speaker 5: Right, I'm trying to use their jargon, throw it right

1363
01:18:32,479 --> 01:18:37,600
back at them, intellectual colonialism. And then the fourth one

1364
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:42,159
is an adequacy of for theological engagement for religious communities,

1365
01:18:42,199 --> 01:18:45,840
the primary goal of engaging with scriptures theological understanding and

1366
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:51,079
spiritual growth. Deconstructions focus on deconstruction, meaning often does not

1367
01:18:51,119 --> 01:18:54,439
align with these goals whatsoever, leading to a disconnect between

1368
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:58,720
deconstructive readings of the Bible and faith based approaches to scripture.

1369
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's a great point. In fact, I might

1370
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:08,359
just retitle the scream this, retitle the stream deconstructing deconstructionism.

1371
01:19:09,039 --> 01:19:13,439
That's perfect title. Ac ten dollars hangeld Boyarin Hurtado Balcom

1372
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:19,159
the same scholarship game that shows Hellenic philosophy was already

1373
01:19:19,159 --> 01:19:21,479
in use of the exegues of the Old Testament hundreds

1374
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:24,000
years before christ philosophy and Maccabe's and Wisdom text the

1375
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,199
Old testamenty. I actually wrote an essay ten years ago

1376
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:29,239
before I had even read Hangelo or any of these

1377
01:19:29,239 --> 01:19:32,000
people we are in or any of the Jewish scholars

1378
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:35,520
talking about. This was about Wisdom and the Old Testament

1379
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:39,039
because I was arguing against EMJ. So EMJ has an

1380
01:19:39,079 --> 01:19:42,600
incorrect idea that John the Apostle, in John one is

1381
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:46,239
using logos in the same sense as Stoics and other

1382
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:50,079
Greek philosophers. No, he's pulling from the Hebrew wisdom tradition

1383
01:19:50,399 --> 01:19:54,600
of the personification of wisdom in the Wisdom text. That's

1384
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:58,279
where John's getting that. It's not getting it from pagan philosophers. Now,

1385
01:19:58,319 --> 01:20:00,840
pagan philosophers might be groping in the for that, But no,

1386
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:03,479
you already have, with the translation of the Hebrew text

1387
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:07,720
into Greek, the septuagen in this tradition, So it's exactly right. Mind,

1388
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,880
haag five dollars, Thank you so much. Mind, I appreciate

1389
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,079
this storm of the cat. Ten dollars. We already read

1390
01:20:12,119 --> 01:20:15,359
that one. Pooh pooh McGhee. Five dollars. Can you do

1391
01:20:15,399 --> 01:20:17,960
a video? Can you do a video where Gavin Orland

1392
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,159
talks about a fallible collection of fallible books or have

1393
01:20:21,279 --> 01:20:24,239
you seen it and quickly explain why it's false. I mean,

1394
01:20:24,279 --> 01:20:27,920
I've been responding to that for ten years on videos,

1395
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:31,319
so I mean it's just again, they're just recycled the

1396
01:20:31,399 --> 01:20:34,039
same argument. Just watch any debate that I've had with

1397
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:37,439
the Protestants where I talk about how if you say

1398
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:40,840
that the whole collection is fallible, then it really doesn't

1399
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:42,640
do any good. If you say that the books themselves

1400
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:45,520
are infallible because if I can start removing them, and

1401
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,880
that's exactly what Luther and higher critical scholarship did. The

1402
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:51,840
end result is where we are today with today's deconstructioning

1403
01:20:52,279 --> 01:20:55,479
deconstruction is do not see that like this sets the

1404
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:57,880
precedent that there's no normative authority in history in the

1405
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,840
Church to say, okay, here's the canon. This is it.

1406
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,399
It's established now every individual Protestant can do his own

1407
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:08,840
personal research to figure out what he thinks the canon is.

1408
01:21:09,199 --> 01:21:12,439
And since there's no living historical authority from the time

1409
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:16,279
of the Apostles till now, that's all Protestants are united

1410
01:21:16,279 --> 01:21:20,119
on this. No one can bind anybody else's conscience in Protestantism.

1411
01:21:20,199 --> 01:21:23,239
That's the Protestant basics, right, No freedom of conscience, freedom

1412
01:21:23,239 --> 01:21:28,399
of worship, freedom of private interpretation. Since nobody can communicate anybody,

1413
01:21:28,399 --> 01:21:31,119
nobody can say anybody's wrong, you end up with this

1414
01:21:31,239 --> 01:21:34,680
position of anybody can say, well, I prayed and study

1415
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,159
a lot, and here's my new Testament canon. And who

1416
01:21:37,159 --> 01:21:40,199
are you to say I'm wrong? You can't bind my conscience.

1417
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:43,720
That's what you know protestantsm built on. So it's it's

1418
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,479
all absurd from the outset, and I've done probably one

1419
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:51,039
hundred videos where I talk about a fallible collection of

1420
01:21:51,079 --> 01:21:55,199
invaaluable books. But okay, so I know you've got to

1421
01:21:55,239 --> 01:21:58,079
go pretty soon. Is there anything else in this introductory streaming? Again?

1422
01:21:58,079 --> 01:22:00,920
Next week we're going to do some more end depth

1423
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:06,760
responses to the actual arguments that these people use. What

1424
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,439
else comes to mind? Any other things that we didn't

1425
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:10,760
hit on in this well?

1426
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:15,760
Speaker 5: In regards to deconstructing deconstructionism, I'll just reiterate we've already

1427
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:18,479
mentioned them, but I had them listed regards to like

1428
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:21,359
the six main points in regards to even why academics

1429
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:24,680
criticize deconstruction and I'm not going to reiterate why we've

1430
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,840
already mentioned them, but again, the reaffirmation of authorial in

1431
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:32,199
ten and historical context, the focus on canonical context and tradition,

1432
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:37,119
defensive coherent meaning again, the idea that these deconstructions they

1433
01:22:37,119 --> 01:22:40,960
can't defend a coherent meaning because they reject any sort

1434
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:46,840
of overarching narrative that connects through history, and then the

1435
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,960
rejection of the role of tradition and community, and then

1436
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:55,960
their constructive theological engagement. Scholars like Stanley Howerwass advocate for

1437
01:22:56,119 --> 01:22:59,640
constructive approach to scripture, which is obviously an opposition to

1438
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:03,560
the entire agenda of deconstructionism. And therefore they really, as

1439
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,199
we highlight earlier scholars that point out that because it's

1440
01:23:06,239 --> 01:23:09,680
constantly deconstructing, it really doesn't give you anything to build upon.

1441
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:12,039
It's just constantly taking things apart. And then the last

1442
01:23:12,039 --> 01:23:15,479
one and really the most really devastating, even though they

1443
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:18,479
don't like to deal with it, is relativism that many

1444
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:23,399
scholars refuse to use deconstructionism because it ultimately it's inherently relativistic.

1445
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,079
And that connects back with the early part of the

1446
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:31,439
stream where Dereta is appealing to Nietzsche's rejection of objective truth. Therefore,

1447
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,920
like Fuco, everything is power structures regarding to the privileging

1448
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:39,520
of certain truths and knowledge, and therefore you have to

1449
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:41,960
undermine all sources of power, which get back to the

1450
01:23:42,039 --> 01:23:44,880
article you're reading. With all those titles about BLM and

1451
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:47,880
Queer Jesus and all this different stuff, what they're doing

1452
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,840
is focusing on the marginal. Again, the foul logo centrism

1453
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,439
which Dereda wants to destroy and undermine is the privileging

1454
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:59,479
of the masculine role in society, a logos theological, metaphysical understanding,

1455
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:03,000
and the focus seeing on the centeredness of concepts and meaning.

1456
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:05,840
They want to reject all that stuff, and so ultimately

1457
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,039
what you're left with is relativism. And so as much

1458
01:24:08,039 --> 01:24:10,920
as we watched Dan McClellan or all these other people

1459
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,600
that were in a deconstructing Christianity, the ones that want

1460
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:18,479
to appeal to these academics is ironic because those same

1461
01:24:18,520 --> 01:24:21,039
academics reject objective truth itself.

1462
01:24:21,119 --> 01:24:22,520
Speaker 4: It's all just power struggle.

1463
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point that helps you understand where

1464
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:30,640
leftism and liberalism is today. It is essentially capitulated into

1465
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:34,119
nothing to do with what you would think of, like

1466
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:38,359
you know, traditional progressivism in America with the fight for

1467
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:44,840
like you know, EBT cards and a great society and

1468
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:49,800
all that LBJ era progressivism stuff. Nowadays, liberalism and leftism

1469
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:52,840
is one hundred percent totally about which is all it

1470
01:24:53,039 --> 01:24:58,600
Nietzschean power struggle. It's it's completely capitulated to literally everything

1471
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:01,960
being about powered. Aynamis That's a key to understand, because

1472
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,760
that's how you understand that they don't care when you're

1473
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:07,760
arguing with them about what's true or false. Every argument,

1474
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:11,079
every every debate, every engagement is pure power dynamics. And

1475
01:25:11,119 --> 01:25:14,319
so it's all about the display, the spectacle, and the dominance,

1476
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:18,000
and that is the key to all of it. So remember,

1477
01:25:18,039 --> 01:25:20,520
you're not engaging with people that believe or even care

1478
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,960
about what's true involves. They don't care about you exposing

1479
01:25:24,039 --> 01:25:28,920
their lives because they see all engagements as pure power dynamics,

1480
01:25:29,239 --> 01:25:31,680
which is odd because it's Nietzschean, which you wouldn't think

1481
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:36,000
the left would be in that motive of of thinking,

1482
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,119
but that's exactly where they are, right.

1483
01:25:38,199 --> 01:25:41,039
Speaker 5: So it's all rhetoric and it's all sophistry, and that's

1484
01:25:41,079 --> 01:25:44,920
why utilizing things like social justice and all the modern linguo,

1485
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:48,840
the reason why that's powerful for them is because they

1486
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:50,960
believe they're garnering a higher ground of.

1487
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 3: Moral higher they're getting power from it.

1488
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:57,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, they're they're gaining power from perceived contemporary biases

1489
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,199
that they are elevated over you, and that you then

1490
01:26:00,239 --> 01:26:03,840
are forced you're on the back heel defending the patriarchy,

1491
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:08,439
defending ancient traditions, defending you know, miracles or this type

1492
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,159
of stuff, and they view this as again a way

1493
01:26:11,199 --> 01:26:16,199
to undermine your source of tradition and identity and religious beliefs,

1494
01:26:16,199 --> 01:26:18,920
but at the same time elevating them as modern, contemporary

1495
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:21,279
people that are more rational and more up to date.

1496
01:26:22,399 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 3: But at the same time, there is no basis for reasoning,

1497
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:28,000
there is no basis for log there is no base.

1498
01:26:28,279 --> 01:26:30,640
It's all oppressive except when they use it. Then it's

1499
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:33,039
not oppressive except but also it is oppressive because everything

1500
01:26:33,119 --> 01:26:36,399
is just power oppressed or dynamics. So yeah, it's it's

1501
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:39,359
this is why these people are insane. They lose their mind.

1502
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,159
They're at war with reality, with logic, with reason, and

1503
01:26:42,199 --> 01:26:45,159
with God. So that's why these people will act the

1504
01:26:45,159 --> 01:26:47,039
way that they do. That's why they have these meltdowns.

1505
01:26:47,079 --> 01:26:51,279
They have these they're essentially demonic. Uh and alex Is

1506
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:54,560
Alex's playing a clip of today one of these, like

1507
01:26:56,159 --> 01:27:00,359
when you go out to the Abration march when people

1508
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:02,720
are marching against Abrassen and we have the pro Abraution

1509
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,439
people show up, and then the the pro p E

1510
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:08,359
d O people and the tier A and Z people.

1511
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:09,039
Speaker 4: Uh.

1512
01:27:09,119 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 3: They actually sometimes manifest demonic uh traits like they're possessed. Yeah, uh,

1513
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:18,199
and alex Is playing a clip of that today. So anyway,

1514
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:20,800
that's what's really going on. It's actually spiritual battle. It's

1515
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:23,560
not all intellectual. I want to remind you guys, head

1516
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:25,039
on over to chalk dot com. That is the show

1517
01:27:25,079 --> 01:27:26,880
sponsored c h o Q dot com. The link is

1518
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,319
in the show description. Those are great products for getting fit,

1519
01:27:30,359 --> 01:27:33,920
for getting healthy, for upping your testosterone. A lot of

1520
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:35,960
guys are low te, a lot of pretty much all

1521
01:27:36,039 --> 01:27:41,359
the dudes that are into deconstructing or low T. I'm serious.

1522
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:43,760
I mean, we watched a bunch of these videos. The

1523
01:27:44,119 --> 01:27:48,239
guys are skittles. The guy it's at degansjecting, they're oppression,

1524
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:52,119
and the girls are girls are actually more high T

1525
01:27:52,319 --> 01:27:53,640
than the dudes that deconstruct.

1526
01:27:54,159 --> 01:27:54,720
Speaker 5: Uh So.

1527
01:27:55,279 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 3: So anyway, so we're gonna be talking about this again

1528
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,720
next week with my good buddy Cootel again. Use a

1529
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:02,760
promo go j forty to get forty percent off all

1530
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:05,600
those products. J Ay forty, jy four zero to get

1531
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:08,560
forty percent off Ji four four Life, Jay four four

1532
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:10,399
La f E to get forty four percent off all

1533
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,439
the great products over at chalk dot com. Link is

1534
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:15,479
in the show description. Also, Cootel and I are going

1535
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:19,680
to be doing a stream on Eventually, we'll figure out

1536
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:21,600
when we're gonna do this, but yeah, a separate stream

1537
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:25,760
not related to this stuff on the history of intelligence operations,

1538
01:28:26,319 --> 01:28:30,520
British intelligence in particular, and Muslim Brotherhood, Radical Islam and

1539
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:32,520
the West. A lot of people don't know about this.

1540
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:36,239
This is another key insight and angle that's very relevant,

1541
01:28:36,359 --> 01:28:39,279
especially as the Internet puts a lot of focus on

1542
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:43,079
Islam in the last few years. The Tates, hit Job,

1543
01:28:43,239 --> 01:28:46,920
Daniel Hikikachu, all these promoters of Islam in the West,

1544
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,600
all over the Internet and YouTube. They're really calling attention

1545
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:54,239
to Islam, and so it's very crucial that we address

1546
01:28:54,399 --> 01:28:56,920
Islam not just from the theological perspective, which is the

1547
01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:01,600
most important, but also understanding the Western linkage linkages to

1548
01:29:03,159 --> 01:29:06,239
Islam in its various forms, and that's an area I

1549
01:29:06,239 --> 01:29:07,560
have read quite a bit. In fact, I knew more

1550
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:10,279
about that than I did before I'd actually read any

1551
01:29:10,279 --> 01:29:13,199
of the Islamic texts themselves, or the theological traditions of

1552
01:29:13,279 --> 01:29:15,880
Islam which had been forced forced into in the last

1553
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:16,399
few years.

1554
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:17,279
Speaker 4: Which is it.

1555
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:19,039
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so ridiculous. It's like the most

1556
01:29:19,119 --> 01:29:23,119
ridiculous cult man. But you know what, actually that's important

1557
01:29:23,159 --> 01:29:27,520
because it's a very useful cult for getting people to

1558
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:30,680
act in these radical ways. And so if you're an

1559
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:35,600
intelligence agency, this is a ready made, perfect lab from

1560
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:37,800
which you can pull lunatics to do all kinds of

1561
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,640
crazy stuff. In fact, Miles Copeland actually says that in

1562
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:44,359
his Game of Nations book. He says, CEE, we love

1563
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:46,039
these people in Egypt because we could get them to

1564
01:29:46,079 --> 01:29:48,119
do what if we wintered, if we needed a ready

1565
01:29:48,159 --> 01:29:49,960
made t R R O R event, we could just

1566
01:29:50,039 --> 01:29:54,159
use them right away, right anyway, So we're looking forward

1567
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:55,840
to what made you, what gave you the idea to

1568
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:58,680
do that, or what hipped you to this whole issue

1569
01:29:58,720 --> 01:29:59,920
of Islam in the West geopolitic.

1570
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 5: Well, you've covered it and as I mentioned before, you

1571
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:08,479
did a fourth hour on Lord Valdemort's programs.

1572
01:30:09,399 --> 01:30:11,520
Speaker 4: It was I thought it was great. It was so succinct.

1573
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:14,520
Speaker 5: It was just point by point by point, and it's

1574
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:16,560
something that I've never covered on my channel, and it's

1575
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:20,800
not something that I've delve into much. So I'm excited

1576
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:22,119
to cover it with you because I know you have

1577
01:30:22,239 --> 01:30:24,159
been covering it for a while and if you have

1578
01:30:24,239 --> 01:30:27,600
any specific articles or anything to read in preparation. I'd

1579
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:30,039
love to kind of grab a hold of that because

1580
01:30:30,079 --> 01:30:33,479
it's becoming very obvious about the Red Green Alliance, you

1581
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,800
know how global communism, if you want to coll that globalism,

1582
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,840
the centralization of power is utilizing utilizing the dialectic of

1583
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:46,159
Islam in the West, and it I mean, it's with

1584
01:30:46,239 --> 01:30:48,319
anybody who has the eyes open to see, it's quite

1585
01:30:48,359 --> 01:30:51,079
clear that that's happening. So you've covered that, and I

1586
01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:53,840
mentioned that to you, and then the fact that I

1587
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:56,000
was kind of looking for new stream topics and somebody

1588
01:30:56,079 --> 01:30:56,680
brought that up.

1589
01:30:57,199 --> 01:31:00,239
Speaker 3: So I'd love one article I would recommend every body

1590
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:04,720
that's very insightful that was actually pulled down from a

1591
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:08,479
very prominent formerly. I don't know if this website is

1592
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:10,039
still love, but there used to be a pretty well

1593
01:31:10,079 --> 01:31:15,359
known kind of left oriented critical of the CIA. Website

1594
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:16,920
was very useful though, because they had a lot of

1595
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,119
great articles are called CounterPunch, So CounterPunch was very useful

1596
01:31:20,119 --> 01:31:21,399
for many years. They used to have a lot of

1597
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:24,199
great pieces of critique in Brazenski and people like that.

1598
01:31:24,319 --> 01:31:27,600
The neocons, I don't agree obviously with every take that

1599
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:29,479
CounterPunch had. I don't know if it's still around, but

1600
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,279
there was a great article that was off that was

1601
01:31:32,399 --> 01:31:34,960
pulled because it was so controversial. You can still find

1602
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:38,199
it though on academic dot eedu and it's called Shills,

1603
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:44,640
Spooks and soufis the case of the Maria Mariami Mariamiya.

1604
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:47,880
Here's the article here. It's not very long, but I

1605
01:31:48,079 --> 01:31:49,800
do recommend people will go take a look at that

1606
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:53,680
because it's just one article that's an insight, a window

1607
01:31:53,800 --> 01:31:58,880
into particularly the usage of Sufis by Western intelligence. There's

1608
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,640
obviously a lot more Muslim Brotherhood has a much longer

1609
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,560
attachment to British intelligence than Soupe's per se. But that's

1610
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,079
that's one window into this this stuff. That's a good article.

1611
01:32:12,279 --> 01:32:15,640
Speaker 4: I just found it. Yeah, I'm downloading that pdf. I'll

1612
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:17,199
read that. Awesome.

1613
01:32:17,279 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we'll figure that out maybe in like two

1614
01:32:19,039 --> 01:32:20,760
or three weeks. We'll set a date for that. But

1615
01:32:21,279 --> 01:32:24,359
the next week we'll do a part two regarding some

1616
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,760
of these TikTok deconstructionists, and so we'll address a lot

1617
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,640
of the religious contentions. And and again they pull from

1618
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:33,439
what I found. They reference a lot of sort of

1619
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:37,840
rabbinic interpretation of Old Testament text to reject the Messianic

1620
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,399
prophecies of Christ. They tend to reject the existence of

1621
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,800
the Holy Trinity as being scripturally justified.

1622
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:47,520
Speaker 4: And then they pull from these.

1623
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 7: Reddit level is it like reddit level stuff about God's

1624
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,279
mean and stuff. Yeah, that's basically it. And and they

1625
01:32:55,399 --> 01:32:58,000
I wrote down four that I found multiple times, and

1626
01:32:58,079 --> 01:33:03,239
that's the Great Flood, the attacking the youth, and four

1627
01:33:03,359 --> 01:33:05,840
kingdoms or second kings, depending on what Bible you have,

1628
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:10,279
the Canaanites punishing Israel, and then Israel destroying the Canaanites.

1629
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:14,119
Those four instances I found multiple people on TikTok referencing

1630
01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:16,800
as oh, the old old tea God is He's mean

1631
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,239
and nasty and vengeful. And yeah, a lot of them

1632
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:23,000
take like a sort of Marcian I yeah, the scripture.

1633
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 3: And I'm able to we can address those very easily.

1634
01:33:26,119 --> 01:33:29,039
So yeah, looking forward to that. Hey, thank you so much. Man,

1635
01:33:29,079 --> 01:33:31,199
be everybody in the chat. We got up to a

1636
01:33:31,239 --> 01:33:32,920
thousand to day. Glad to hear it. I'll be sure

1637
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:35,960
and follow. We mentioned Rob Bell earlier there, Cindy, we

1638
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:37,800
should actually do maybe more of a deep dive on

1639
01:33:38,199 --> 01:33:41,239
people like Rob Bell. And the Emergent Church Founders. But

1640
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,840
I'll be sure and follow Church Eternal Logos David Patrick

1641
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:47,199
carry over at his channel. I've got him linked and

1642
01:33:47,439 --> 01:33:49,720
anything else you want to promote before we call it

1643
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:50,399
a close.

1644
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:53,640
Speaker 5: No, just go check out my YouTube channel, Church of

1645
01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:56,119
the Eternal Logos dot com. It's hyperlinked in the title here.

1646
01:33:56,199 --> 01:33:56,520
Speaker 4: Click that.

1647
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:58,319
Speaker 5: I'll take you over there, give me a sub and

1648
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:02,199
check out. Jane and I've done multiple streams. Each one

1649
01:34:02,319 --> 01:34:06,800
is a totally different topic. We've done Circularity in philosophy,

1650
01:34:07,399 --> 01:34:10,760
deconstructing the Vatican and the evils of the Pope, the papacy.

1651
01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:14,039
We have one on Protestantism that has been shared a

1652
01:34:14,119 --> 01:34:16,000
lot of times as one of my more watched videos.

1653
01:34:16,039 --> 01:34:19,560
So looking forward to whenever we can get together. It's

1654
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:20,439
always great content.

1655
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:22,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you very much. And I, guys, I want

1656
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:24,880
to remind you too. I will be over at the

1657
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,359
comedy event. It's a two day comedy event. They still

1658
01:34:28,399 --> 01:34:30,640
haven't people asked me what day are you there? They

1659
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:32,920
haven't done the lineup yet, so I don't know exactly

1660
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:36,640
which day it is, but it's Brohemian Grove and so

1661
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:41,760
Elijah Shafer's Elijah Shafer is going to be there. Maybe

1662
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:43,479
Shane Cashman will be there. We had a great chat

1663
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:45,960
the other day over in his podcast from Tim Cast.

1664
01:34:47,119 --> 01:34:49,479
Who else is Leonarda Joni the comedian. She's going to

1665
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:52,600
be there. A lot of people are going to be there.

1666
01:34:53,239 --> 01:34:55,800
They're trying to, I think, secure more and more and

1667
01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:57,199
more people to come for sure.

1668
01:34:57,439 --> 01:34:58,159
Speaker 4: Is that in Florida.

1669
01:34:58,600 --> 01:34:58,840
Speaker 7: It is.

1670
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:01,520
Speaker 3: It's in Florida, number twenty fifth and twenty six and

1671
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:05,640
so here is the link to that for those that

1672
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:09,600
are interested. I'm gonna be doing I'll be going on

1673
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,560
the different podcasts, and people want to come and talk

1674
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:14,039
to me, they can, But I'm not gonna be doing

1675
01:35:14,119 --> 01:35:16,840
a talk on anything serious. It's gonna be all just

1676
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:19,560
totally for my vantage point fun. I'm gonna be doing

1677
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:22,840
some karaoke. I'm gonna be performing Cringe Corp Live. So

1678
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:24,560
it's gonna be a fun. It's more of a comedy

1679
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:27,159
event for me. But I will have books and I

1680
01:35:27,199 --> 01:35:30,279
will have you know, be doing interviews and so forth.

1681
01:35:30,319 --> 01:35:31,560
So if you want to come get signed books, you

1682
01:35:31,640 --> 01:35:34,319
can and that will be October twenty fifth and twenty

1683
01:35:34,359 --> 01:35:38,880
sixth in summer summer Field, Florida, anyway, the link is

1684
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:41,840
there anyway, Thank you very much, Kotel