Speaker 1: Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
Speaker 1: I've been on for most of my life. Ever since
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I've heard tales of Bigfoot and
Speaker 1: wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
Speaker 1: As I grew older and read more about the paranormal,
Speaker 1: my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
Speaker 1: That's why I'm so excited to share with you what
Speaker 1: I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The
Speaker 1: Untold Radio Network is a live streaming podcast network that
Speaker 1: airs a new show every day across all podcast platforms, YouTube,
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Speaker 1: of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and
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Speaker 1: where I talk about all things strange. This is more
Speaker 1: than just a podcast network. It's a community that allows
Speaker 1: me to meet so many amazing people who share their
Speaker 1: stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing
Speaker 1: more of these stories and learning more about the paranormal encryptids,
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Speaker 2: Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going
Speaker 2: on here. Something just kid with my dog, something to
Speaker 2: kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through there over
Speaker 2: the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, damn,
Speaker 2: I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
Speaker 2: over the fence, and name was dead once you hit
Speaker 2: the ground. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
Speaker 2: was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what are
Speaker 2: you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
Speaker 2: out here? Did you see what it was? It was
Speaker 2: enough out here. Look, I'm new to one going now
Speaker 2: and I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside.
Speaker 2: Just fit Hello, hit the fuddy out here? What quent
Speaker 2: on out there? I thought of a bit of about
Speaker 2: text foot nine. I don't know. Easy ann ount there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm working right, heady, all.
Speaker 1: Right, folks, Someone will welcome my guest to the show.
Speaker 1: It is justin from Texas. Welcome to the show man.
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you, Brian. I appreciate it's an honor of
Speaker 3: privilege to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I have been looking forward to this conversation. I love
Speaker 1: fellow authors who write books on this subject. I've got
Speaker 1: two books out on the subject myself. We'll certainly get
Speaker 1: into your book here in a little bit, but let's
Speaker 1: start with where I start with most people. What got
Speaker 1: you interested in the subject of bankfoot to begin with?
Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm a skeptic by nature. I'm also an
Speaker 3: author and researcher. I've written twelve books too that reused
Speaker 3: at the collegiate levels. First and foremost, I'll tell everyone
Speaker 3: I'm not necessarily a bigfoot guide. I'm not that bigfoot
Speaker 3: guy that goes to conferences and shows off my footcast
Speaker 3: and all that stuff. I got into it because I
Speaker 3: had an experience when I was haul hunting in Arkansas
Speaker 3: in two thousand and one. I'm a highly skeptical person.
Speaker 3: Born in the show Me State, Missouri. My family's all
Speaker 3: law enforcement and military. I was always in survival, always
Speaker 3: into hunting fishing when I was young, just because we
Speaker 3: were four, we used it to supplement our table. But
Speaker 3: in two thousand and one, I was doing a solo
Speaker 3: boar hunt. I was deep in the Arkansas Wash Guitaals.
Speaker 3: I was off grid, I was off trail and off
Speaker 3: the map. I had set up my lean too because
Speaker 3: I love to go primitive camping. I have a YouTube
Speaker 3: channel where we do survival stuff. I have my lean
Speaker 3: too with cordage, pine and a tar. Really just enough
Speaker 3: to keep the do off of me, bugs out of
Speaker 3: my face. It's what I like to do. So no ten,
Speaker 3: no backup, just me and whatever else was in the
Speaker 3: wood fits me. I'm gonna get a little bit of
Speaker 3: background because I think it ties into the story. So
Speaker 3: I was hog hunting. I had a six hour P
Speaker 3: two two nine that was one of my favorite pistols
Speaker 3: at the time. It was forty Smith and Wesson, and
Speaker 3: I had some solid copper lee high defense rounds in it.
Speaker 3: You may or may not know what. Bores can get
Speaker 3: very aggressive if you shoot them they're close by, they
Speaker 3: can charge, they can gore you with their tusks. I
Speaker 3: had the solid copper rounds because let's design to penetrate deeply.
Speaker 3: I had thirteen rounds in it, twelve and the MAGA
Speaker 3: one of the pipe, and then in my shelter. My
Speaker 3: primary hunting rifle was a PTR ninety one, which it's
Speaker 3: an HKG three clone in three oh eight or seven
Speaker 3: point sixty two by fifty one. That was what I
Speaker 3: was hunting hogs with over the particular weekend. It holds
Speaker 3: twenty rounds. Some laying there the fires died down. I'm
Speaker 3: half asleep, and I remember it was one forty seven am.
Speaker 3: I distinctly remember that because I checked my watch at
Speaker 3: the time. The night was real quiet. Then I heard
Speaker 3: a wet, low huff just beyond the tree line. It
Speaker 3: was loud enough that it startled me awake. Again. I've
Speaker 3: been in the woods and in jungles in Asia my
Speaker 3: whole life. I've heard deer bucks will snort, had possums
Speaker 3: that hiss at me, coyotes that walk under me. So
Speaker 3: I'm very familiar, especially in the lower part of America.
Speaker 3: I haven't been to last yet, but I'm very familiar
Speaker 3: with the animal noises. It was a different animal noise,
Speaker 3: so it caught my attention, and I knew it wasn't
Speaker 3: grumble of a bear either. It was more like deliberate
Speaker 3: and I set up. I put my boots on, I
Speaker 3: grabbed my flashlight, and of course I touched my side
Speaker 3: and make sure my pistol is still there. And I
Speaker 3: stepped outside, and again it was really quiet that night.
Speaker 3: I remember really not much wind, no bugs, no sound.
Speaker 3: You know how you can feel when something's staring at you.
Speaker 3: You ever get that feeling where something is like really
Speaker 3: looking at you hard, You feel a little uneasiness, You
Speaker 3: feel that the hair is on the back of your neck.
Speaker 3: Stand up. I felt that, and I'm looking around. Then
Speaker 3: the brush literally the term I used for it is exploded.
Speaker 3: So this thing didn't ease its way out. It just
Speaker 3: tore out of the forest like it had been waiting
Speaker 3: for me to move. Branches were cracking, the undergrowth was flattened,
Speaker 3: and now I recognize that I think it was basically
Speaker 3: a bluff charge. It was tall, it was eight feet probably,
Speaker 3: I would say at least and why shoulders like oiled
Speaker 3: drones and arm that hung almost to its knees. The
Speaker 3: hair wasn't really smooth like the deer's. It was matted
Speaker 3: and thick, wet, and faces clumped with dirt. God knows
Speaker 3: what else. Its face wasn't really a face of an ape,
Speaker 3: wasn't a face of a man. To me, it looked
Speaker 3: like something in between, something primate that maybe was mixed
Speaker 3: with Neanderthal. Had a flat, broad nose, heavy brow. I
Speaker 3: saw it. I frunz for just a split second, and
Speaker 3: then my body reacted. I dove into the brush by
Speaker 3: my little camp there, scrambling my elbows belly into the brush.
Speaker 3: I remember the worms were ripping my arms. I didn't
Speaker 3: really care. I was scared from this thing, obviously. I
Speaker 3: just laid there and watched. And then it stepped into
Speaker 3: the camp, closer to the fire bed. I remember it
Speaker 3: was breathing like a boy. It was breathing heavy. I
Speaker 3: could see its chest moving. Then it snipped the air,
Speaker 3: tilted its head back. I've told other interviewers it looked
Speaker 3: like it could separate every molecule from the air. It
Speaker 3: was searching, sensing, and then it turned its head towards me.
Speaker 3: Of course, it didn't have really much of the neck.
Speaker 3: It turned its upper body with it, and I saw
Speaker 3: its eyes, and that was when I recognize. And I
Speaker 3: know a lot of people that see these creatures say
Speaker 3: that their eyes were glowing. I did not notice that.
Speaker 3: I just noticed that its eyes didn't look like a
Speaker 3: typical animal's eyes. They looked cold and focused and intelligent,
Speaker 3: something that's more aware, something thinking. When it saw me,
Speaker 3: that's when Iran, I'm a big guy, I'm six feet tall,
Speaker 3: two hundred and seventy five pounds. It screamed, and the
Speaker 3: stream was like something I haven't ever heard before. Wasn't
Speaker 3: anything I've ever heard in the woods before. It was low, troaty,
Speaker 3: and violent. I could feel it in my chest, vibrating
Speaker 3: my body. I learned like about infrasound. Maybe it was
Speaker 3: that I had just never experienced it before. I know
Speaker 3: tigers do it and elephants can do it. I believe
Speaker 3: that this thing can do it too. When it it streamed,
Speaker 3: my blood rain and cold, it felt like terror erupted
Speaker 3: from me. I had cold water splash through me, and
Speaker 3: I just kept running, tearing through the brush like a
Speaker 3: wild day, bleeding and tripping, not caring, just moving, just fleet.
Speaker 3: I had a pistol on my side, but the thing
Speaker 3: was so big. I thought, Man, if I shoot that
Speaker 3: thing with my pistol, am I gonna stop at her?
Speaker 3: Is It's still gonna have the energy and strength to
Speaker 3: kill me. That wasn't an option. It wasn't an option
Speaker 3: for me to try to run or move past it,
Speaker 3: to get to my lean, to get my rifle. I
Speaker 3: didn't think about any of that, really, I just thought
Speaker 3: about escaping so I'm running. I didn't really think it
Speaker 3: was me because I couldn't hear it chasing me, but
Speaker 3: I knew it could have chased me and caught me.
Speaker 3: So by dawn I collapsed and I was sitting in
Speaker 3: a dry creek bed. I gotten against the wall of
Speaker 3: the creek bed, basically trying to hide there and catch
Speaker 3: my breath and everything. Then when the sun came up,
Speaker 3: I went back in cautiously slowly, and I grabbed my
Speaker 3: rifle and packed up everything else that I could, and
Speaker 3: I loved. I remember going back into that camp. There
Speaker 3: was a horrible smell there rot, wet fur, old blood.
Speaker 3: It smelled like dirty and mixed with garbage. I've seen
Speaker 3: dead bodies before. It was worse than the smell of
Speaker 3: a dead body, at least for me. The smell was
Speaker 3: in that area, hanging in the air, stuck on my gear,
Speaker 3: my backpack and everything. That was my last time that
Speaker 3: I went into the washitalls. I never went back hunting,
Speaker 3: bore or anything again. In that air, I knew it
Speaker 3: saw me, I knew it smelled me, and I knew
Speaker 3: it let me go again. I'm pretty skeptical in general,
Speaker 3: but I saw something that night, and it hasn't left me.
Speaker 3: Since some people laugh about Bigfoot. They treated like a
Speaker 3: meme where they make a joke about it. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of funny, silly movies out about it here in
Speaker 3: Henderson's or whatever. But what I saw that night wasn't
Speaker 3: a joke. It was something that I know could have
Speaker 3: ribbed me apart if it wanted to.
Speaker 1: Is that the only experience you've had with them?
Speaker 3: No, I've done excursions in lots of different places Missouri,
Speaker 3: Mark Twain National Forest to Shawnee National Forest in Illinois,
Speaker 3: because I traveled for my work. I've been in Washington.
Speaker 3: I've been several places, and I've done gifting rocks, and
Speaker 3: I've left jars up in trees where you would need
Speaker 3: to unscrew the jar. I've left food and peanut butter
Speaker 3: in those, and I've seen the pinking type of thing.
Speaker 3: But the only time that I was ever really a
Speaker 3: direct kind of confrontation was this time. That was enough
Speaker 3: for me to realize, Hey, this isn't phony belonging. There's
Speaker 3: something out there for sure. I know we can talk
Speaker 3: about the book later, but I've gotten a bad review
Speaker 3: because all of my skepticism cynicism, all of that stuff
Speaker 3: I tried to put into the book. I think this
Speaker 3: particular gentleman had read the first chapter and decided to
Speaker 3: leave me a one star review, and then he said,
Speaker 3: I can't read anymore because the first chapter I say
Speaker 3: something like people that believe in big Twitter idiots, because
Speaker 3: that was my opinion on it before all this, before
Speaker 3: I started researching it. So that's what I do if
Speaker 3: I get passionate about a topic, because I enjoy writing,
Speaker 3: number research, or I even research for big Fortune one
Speaker 3: hundred companies. When I start to get passionate about something,
Speaker 3: that's what I do. I have been to it. So
Speaker 3: since two thousand and one dove into the subject of
Speaker 3: big Foot in Sasquatch, let's talk a little.
Speaker 1: Bit about prior to your experience two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: We're talking twenty four years ago at this point, where
Speaker 1: were you on the subject before you had this experience
Speaker 1: where you saw this creature? Was it even on your radar?
Speaker 1: Was it something that you scoffed at? Had you seen
Speaker 1: the Patterson Gimlin film.
Speaker 3: Yes, I had seen all of that. I love all
Speaker 3: those crazy duck and dramas and series I loved watching
Speaker 3: all that stuff. But I was a strong skeptic. I
Speaker 3: had uncles that would tell me things. One uncle in particular,
Speaker 3: the wild Guy. He was a gold prospector. He was
Speaker 3: a ranger, and he would come around maybe once every
Speaker 3: six months and tell us all crazy stories. He was
Speaker 3: definitely a believer. I think my dad was a believer,
Speaker 3: but I was a diehard skeptic. I scoffed and laughed
Speaker 3: at people met your mind, playing tricks on you. You're
Speaker 3: just not come for boy in the woods. The woods
Speaker 3: can be spooky, it's foreign for modern Humlans. I was
Speaker 3: more along those lines, I think, than a believer.
Speaker 1: It's interesting when you were telling your encounter story before
Speaker 1: you saw this thing. I had something very similar happened
Speaker 1: to me when I was twelve in the North Georgia Mountains.
Speaker 1: Sounded very much like a huffing, growling sound moving around
Speaker 1: in the underbrush, and then what sounded like a bluff charge.
Speaker 1: But I never got to see this thing. It never
Speaker 1: would step out where I could see it, probably fortunately
Speaker 1: for me, because I don't know that I could have
Speaker 1: handled that. I didn't have the intestinal fortitude at twelve
Speaker 1: years old. I don't think to handle that it would
Speaker 1: have been tough for me. It scarred me for a
Speaker 1: long time. It kept me out of the woods for
Speaker 1: probably a year or more. When I was a kid
Speaker 1: and I loved the woods. It was my escape. So
Speaker 1: it kept me out of the woods and I didn't
Speaker 1: even see it. So that tends to do one of
Speaker 1: two things for people. When you have an encounter where
Speaker 1: you see these things, particularly as close as you were
Speaker 1: in that kind of situation, it either sends you down
Speaker 1: the road of oh shit, I'm done with that. I
Speaker 1: don't want to have anything to do with that, or
Speaker 1: you're going to start looking into it and researching it.
Speaker 1: What did that look like for you after your encounter
Speaker 1: with this thing? Did that start for you immediately? Did
Speaker 1: you go down the rabbit hole and start looking into stories?
Speaker 1: How did you approach the research? And we can move
Speaker 1: on into obviously you went on to write the book. Sure,
Speaker 1: what was that process like for you? And stay tuned
Speaker 1: for more Sasquatch out to see We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: After these messages.
Speaker 3: I think I was in a state of somewhat disbelief.
Speaker 3: My raps frum mind was trying to rationalize every which
Speaker 3: way that I could, and I haven't shared these stories
Speaker 3: really before with anyone to tell this book. I was
Speaker 3: just looking into everything and looking into windygos and Native
Speaker 3: American of folklore legends and reading books and watching every
Speaker 3: movie and show that I could about. This just came
Speaker 3: to the realization obviously it was real. That was really
Speaker 3: it for me. At the time, You're thinking, did I
Speaker 3: really see that? Did that really happen? Could that have
Speaker 3: been a bear? Was it someone playing a prank on me? Again?
Speaker 3: I beer hunted, a boar, hunted, a turkey, hunted all
Speaker 3: my life. I've been in and around the woods, just
Speaker 3: like you. It's relaxing for me. I've slept in trees before.
Speaker 3: I'm very comfortable there and comfortable with what I'd run into.
Speaker 3: The experience was not like that. So then I had
Speaker 3: to come to the realization, yes it happened, it's real.
Speaker 3: Because I have a very curious mind. And then I
Speaker 3: got into what the heck was that I knew what
Speaker 3: I thought it was based on shows and books talking
Speaker 3: to people. That's when I really got into the research
Speaker 3: aspect of it to start to study it. But if
Speaker 3: you're like me, something strange happened, you really rack your
Speaker 3: brain to try to disprove it to yourself. No, it
Speaker 3: had to be something else because they don't exist.
Speaker 1: I am literally right there with you. Last summer out
Speaker 1: filming a documentary out in the Pacific Northwest and Washington State.
Speaker 1: We were in the area. I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: familiar with the Olympic Project and the Olympic Project nest site.
Speaker 1: We set up in their home base as base camp
Speaker 1: for us while we were in this area, and we
Speaker 1: went out and I had three sidings of these things
Speaker 1: in two days. I'm still wrapping my brain around and
Speaker 1: trying to rationalize what I saw. One of them was
Speaker 1: a daylight siding one of these things peaking around a tree,
Speaker 1: and I was within ten feet of one of them
Speaker 1: at one point during a night hike. So I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to rationalize that. I think one of the things
Speaker 1: that's really hampered me is I've also been under an
Speaker 1: NDA because of this project. The documentary is still not out,
Speaker 1: but we can at least now talk about our experiences,
Speaker 1: and we've done that on multiple shows. On my show.
Speaker 1: I've been guessed on another podcases and shared it. But
Speaker 1: I'm still wrapping my brain around it. And I've done
Speaker 1: the same thing that you've done is try to rationalize.
Speaker 1: I tried to Okham's razor my way out of having
Speaker 1: these three encounters that I had in two days. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was a squirrel going around a tree that looked
Speaker 1: like this thing peeking around from seventy yards away, and
Speaker 1: maybe it was something else, But there's no denying being
Speaker 1: ten feet away from this thing. There's only one thing
Speaker 1: it could be. So I've accepted that, but it's still
Speaker 1: very difficult for me, this weird dichotomy, because I am
Speaker 1: so skeptical of just about everything when it comes to bigfoot.
Speaker 1: People say, how can you have these encounters and still
Speaker 1: be so skeptical. I don't know. That's just how I'm wired.
Speaker 1: I think you have to be skeptical when it comes
Speaker 1: to this stuff, because if you don't, you buy every
Speaker 1: piece of Paridulia, every red circle squatch, there is every
Speaker 1: piece of audio that somebody's pulled off the Internet and
Speaker 1: dubbed over a video. So I'm very skeptical in that
Speaker 1: sense of it. I'm no longer skeptical hundred percent know
Speaker 1: where that these things are real, because I've seen them.
Speaker 1: But you do beat yourself up, and I think that
Speaker 1: goes with the territory. There's a lot of people. I'm
Speaker 1: six hundred plus episodes into this podcast, I've heard a
Speaker 1: lot of encounter stories. Are they all true? Probably not.
Speaker 1: Let's just be honest. We got to be intellectually honest
Speaker 1: about this. People like to make up things, they like
Speaker 1: to be a part of the crowd. But by and large,
Speaker 1: the majority of these stories I think that we here
Speaker 1: are true, and I think these people that have legitimate
Speaker 1: encounters beat themselves up over it and try to rationalize
Speaker 1: it away, and it just doesn't work. It drives a
Speaker 1: lot of people crazy in a lot of ways. Anybody
Speaker 1: who's had an encounter that's face to face with one
Speaker 1: of these things handles it differently. You chose to go
Speaker 1: into and write a book, which I eventually did a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago myself. I published my first book
Speaker 1: two years ago and the latest one came out just
Speaker 1: this year. The first one was a fact based book.
Speaker 1: It was nonfiction. It was a out my story as
Speaker 1: a kid. It goes into a lot of the science
Speaker 1: and the history of these things. Then the other one
Speaker 1: was a fictional life story that I did last year.
Speaker 1: What was the process like for you writing the book,
Speaker 1: How did you want to approach it? Did it change
Speaker 1: when you got into the process. Let's talk about some
Speaker 1: of the things that you cover in the book and
Speaker 1: how that skepticism marries in with the fact that you've
Speaker 1: had an encounter with these things and you know that
Speaker 1: they exist.
Speaker 3: So in the book, I don't try to lead anyone
Speaker 3: to any specific conclusions. The book isn't to make people
Speaker 3: think like I do or believe in what I believe.
Speaker 3: It's more of this is a scientific research method. We
Speaker 3: should approach everything with a curious and scientific, fact based approach.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of folklore in there. I've met
Speaker 3: with different people, including some tribal elders. I've gotten their
Speaker 3: input on that, a lot of eyewitness interviews and testimonies.
Speaker 3: I also then share the skeptical point of view for
Speaker 3: those interviews. So my goal with the book was to
Speaker 3: finally tell this story and tell about everything that I've
Speaker 3: researched about this topic, and also to make people think
Speaker 3: and to start the discussion. Because we can't continue to
Speaker 3: just turn a blind eye to these things. I think
Speaker 3: we need to find out more about them. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of things in our world I believe that we
Speaker 3: don't know about, we still don't know about when even
Speaker 3: hard science has issues go back one hundred years. The
Speaker 3: science that we knew of back then, some of that
Speaker 3: has been disproven today. So even science doesn't maintain truths
Speaker 3: throughout its entire existence. That's why I called the book
Speaker 3: Everything is a Lie and Everything is True the Bigfoot paradox,
Speaker 3: because depending on your perspective, that's certainly true. But I
Speaker 3: think when you have folklore, meth spoken word traditions, and
Speaker 3: cave paintings that is multi generational, right hundreds and arguably
Speaker 3: thousands of years, that continues to survive and continues to
Speaker 3: pop its head up, I don't think you can ignore that.
Speaker 3: You can't ignore that that survives across tribal civilizations, across governments,
Speaker 3: across countries and continents. There's also a story of a
Speaker 3: hunt I did in the book in the Philippines for
Speaker 3: the Omenango, which is their version of Bigfoot. I was
Speaker 3: going to the Philippines anyway, so I wanted to look
Speaker 3: for it there as well. I can tell you more
Speaker 3: about that if you had won. That wasn't the Olmanogo.
Speaker 3: I had a violent encounter with another supposedly mythical being
Speaker 3: in the Philippines. I was going to the Philippines to
Speaker 3: meet a girlfriend that I had met online. I had
Speaker 3: talked to her for a while. I was going to
Speaker 3: spend some time with her. I was going to spend
Speaker 3: about six weeks there. So while I was there, I
Speaker 3: knew that in Negros Occidental, a region of the Philippines,
Speaker 3: there's quite a bit of activity with this creature called
Speaker 3: the Olmanogo. I can speak to dialog, which is a
Speaker 3: Philippine national language. My ex wife was from the Philippines
Speaker 3: and my son is a dual citizen with the Philippines
Speaker 3: in US. So I had gone down there and I
Speaker 3: had met up with my girlfriend. At the time, I
Speaker 3: had done research and figured out that there was this
Speaker 3: creature there called the Olmanogo. I had hooked up with
Speaker 3: a local guide and I told her, I'm going to
Speaker 3: be gone for the week. I'm going to go. This
Speaker 3: guy says that he can show me where this Olmanogo is.
Speaker 3: My plan was to get photos and things like that.
Speaker 3: I had already really, you know, had a bunch of
Speaker 3: notes and cases and things that I was working on
Speaker 3: for the book research. And of course she thought I
Speaker 3: was crazy right, But I convinced here, I'll just be
Speaker 3: gone a week and then I'll be back. So I
Speaker 3: had met this Rinaldo gentleman who was an Auti tribesman.
Speaker 3: He spoke a little bit broken English and I speak
Speaker 3: to Galog. So he had assured me he knew the
Speaker 3: jungle well and knew where the Amanongo lived, supposedly around
Speaker 3: Mountconda On. I was in Elo anyway, so I took
Speaker 3: an ocean jet fury from Elo Elo to Buccalde, which
Speaker 3: is about a two hour ride on boat. Then I
Speaker 3: met up with Rinaldo. There's a little local dive establishment
Speaker 3: there in Buccalode called Tippy's Bistro. I had told him
Speaker 3: I'd give him three thousand pesos, which is about sixty dollars,
Speaker 3: if he would show me where the Amanongo lived. So
Speaker 3: we had started off then into the jungle on her hike.
Speaker 3: And keep in mind, I'm in the Philippines, so I'm
Speaker 3: a foreigner there. I don't have anything with me. You
Speaker 3: can't even have a little pocket knife. I got nothing
Speaker 3: to protect myself. I'm just depending on this guide. The
Speaker 3: first couple of days were uneventful. Then a night we'd
Speaker 3: hear strange noises, and I could tell that Rinaldo was
Speaker 3: a little unnerved by it. We'd set around the fire.
Speaker 3: I'm not a heavy drinker, but we'd have a shot
Speaker 3: or two of tend do I, which is a rum.
Speaker 3: There we were hearing whoops and things like that. He
Speaker 3: was getting a little bit more and more uncomfortable, even
Speaker 3: though he was trying to hide it. But on the
Speaker 3: morning of the third day, I woke up and Rinaldo
Speaker 3: was gone. Almost all of my gear was gone. He
Speaker 3: had left a little not that said I'll just give
Speaker 3: you the translation. It basically means sorry, I can't take
Speaker 3: it anymore. Creatures of the forest know why we are here.
Speaker 3: They're angry. I've left you. It's up to you now.
Speaker 3: And I was like, holy crap. Because I'm in a
Speaker 3: foreign country. I'm pretty deep into the jungle now. I
Speaker 3: didn't have my guide anymore. He's gone, my supplies, had
Speaker 3: no idea where the Amaongo was, since he had told
Speaker 3: me it would be like three days to get there.
Speaker 3: I said, okay, I'm gonna switch from Bigfoot researcher. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna switch into survival mode. I was alone, no cell phone.
Speaker 3: I put that on to the side, and I thought about, Okay,
Speaker 3: how the heck do I get out of here? Alive?
Speaker 3: Survival training told me to follow a stream. The stream
Speaker 3: would lead to a river. A river's water leaves the villages.
Speaker 3: And then I thought, okay, if I find a village there,
Speaker 3: I'll be saved. So I started doing that. It was
Speaker 3: getting late at night. I'm exhausted at this point. It's silly,
Speaker 3: but I have to be jerky. I had trail mix
Speaker 3: and some dehydrated food bags, all the typical stuff you
Speaker 3: would take on a three, four or five day excursion.
Speaker 3: I didn't have any of that. Now that was all gone.
Speaker 3: I found this small village, kind of tucked away, a
Speaker 3: couple flickering lamps. This friendly man, I thought he was
Speaker 3: friendly at the time. He invited me into his shanty.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've ever been in the Philippines, Brian,
Speaker 3: I love the Philippines. Obviously, it was a third world country.
Speaker 3: His house was strung together bamboo and rusted sheet metal
Speaker 3: and things. I was happy that I'd run into him.
Speaker 3: I accepted his hospitality. I got into his house and
Speaker 3: he was there with his wife there gaunt child, probably
Speaker 3: no older than twelve, We sat down quietly and they
Speaker 3: had given me a last of tubo, which is a
Speaker 3: local wine made on a coconut, and it was super bitter.
Speaker 3: But that really wasn't what bothered me. That gentleman that
Speaker 3: I had met. He said he was going to go
Speaker 3: out back, and that's typically how it works there. So
Speaker 3: they'll have their het or they're shanty, and then i'm back.
Speaker 3: They'll have a dirty kitchen or whatever, and it's the
Speaker 3: fire and ex use me where they do food prep
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. So I'm drinking this too, but
Speaker 3: I'm sitting there and I started to feel really strange.
Speaker 3: My head started spinning. My vision was blurry, and I
Speaker 3: was thinking, you're just exhausted, you're probably dehygrated. Then it
Speaker 3: hit me that they had probably put something in my drink.
Speaker 3: I tried to stand up to shake off the dizziness.
Speaker 3: That was when the room began to spend. That's when
Speaker 3: I noticed the kid that was there. His eyes were red,
Speaker 3: glowing red. He was staring at me like I was
Speaker 3: a piece of meat basically, and his lips curled back.
Speaker 3: That's when I saw his dagged teeth. Remember saying, you
Speaker 3: know what the hell is happening. I'm still trying to
Speaker 3: stay upright on my feet. I just wanted to get
Speaker 3: out of there. That was my intention. I had to leave.
Speaker 3: I had to get out, for it was too late.
Speaker 3: I went towards the door, which was like a blanket,
Speaker 3: a piece of cloth over a door openy. As I
Speaker 3: made for the door, the child growled and jumped onto
Speaker 3: my back like a wild animal. He was punching and
Speaker 3: biting and clawing at my face. I've actually got photos
Speaker 3: of this the aftermath in my book, so I've got
Speaker 3: that photographic evidence, at least in the book. So he's
Speaker 3: on my back, and I remember he had put a
Speaker 3: deep puncture wound under my right eye with his nails.
Speaker 3: I'd grabbed him back like this. That's when he had
Speaker 3: bit my arm. He sank his teeth deep into my forearm,
Speaker 3: and that was probably good that he did that, because
Speaker 3: that really hurt, and kind of maybe they got the
Speaker 3: full of adrenaline doped into my body at that point.
Speaker 3: But I threw him into the wall with all the
Speaker 3: strength I had. He hits the wall, slid down the wall.
Speaker 3: My arm was strobbing, and I had blood running down
Speaker 3: my arm and down my hand. I went back to
Speaker 3: go to the door. That's when the mother was blocking
Speaker 3: the door. She's screaming for her husband, who's out back.
Speaker 3: She screamed it in to goy log, but she basically
Speaker 3: was saying, Tayan, hurry, our food is escaping. Don't let
Speaker 3: him get away.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Sasquatch out to sea. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: What I tell people, there's movies where you hear like
Speaker 3: the growling demonic type voice. It's like a growling voice.
Speaker 3: That's how she sounded. Her eyes were were also going
Speaker 3: the red the child had recovered. At this point, the
Speaker 3: walls were closing in. This is really the most traumatic
Speaker 3: experience that I had. I was desperate. I knew that
Speaker 3: if I didn't get out of there, I would be dead.
Speaker 3: She was in my way to the door. I had
Speaker 3: been viciously attacked by this little skinny kid. So I
Speaker 3: just kicked her as hard as I could. I kicked
Speaker 3: her right under the chin. She dropped to the floor,
Speaker 3: and that was when I worring out the door. I
Speaker 3: looked back and I saw the husband. He had a
Speaker 3: bolo machete in his hand, and that's when I realized
Speaker 3: the oswaan, which is something else that's supposed to be
Speaker 3: a myth or a legend or folklore in the Philippines
Speaker 3: about these creatures. Some say they're more like vampires. Some
Speaker 3: say they're cannibalistic. But I realized they were os and
Speaker 3: I just ran until I couldn't run anymore, until I
Speaker 3: couldn't hear their screams, I could tell that they weren't
Speaker 3: chasing me. I got to barangay hall, which is a
Speaker 3: local neighborhood or community structure. It's where they have the
Speaker 3: people that they elect to the barang guy that handle
Speaker 3: local disputes, things that are local to that area. I
Speaker 3: got there and collapsed on the door. This man, he's
Speaker 3: probably in his mid sixties. He came to the door,
Speaker 3: introduced himself as a barang Guy captain. He helped me inside,
Speaker 3: got out. His little first aid kid was shaking his
Speaker 3: head and he said, you're very lucky, Joe. That's pretty common,
Speaker 3: especially in areas that are super rural areas with very
Speaker 3: tribal people, if they see a Caucasian person, especially you know,
Speaker 3: one with a shaved head, they'll call them Joe, like
Speaker 3: g I Joe or called him an Americano, and it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if you're from Canada or France. He called
Speaker 3: his friend. I was in shock again. He said, you're lucky.
Speaker 3: Then he told me that his friend will drive me
Speaker 3: back to the hotel that I needed to rest. I
Speaker 3: didn't really even register the ride back. Don't even really
Speaker 3: remember if the guy that gave me a ride in
Speaker 3: the truck was talking to me or not. My mind
Speaker 3: just kept replaying the events, thinking what just happened to me.
Speaker 3: When I got in the hotel, I looked in the mirror,
Speaker 3: and that's when I grabbed my backup camera and took
Speaker 3: the photos of my arm and my face and my
Speaker 3: body that were covered with bites and lacerations. None of
Speaker 3: the damage was life threatening, but it certainly could have been.
Speaker 3: It was something that I had significant trauma from it. Nightmares,
Speaker 3: I was really correct inside and out, and clam works
Speaker 3: all over my face. I had a deep preparation under
Speaker 3: my eye where he had tried to take my eye out,
Speaker 3: blood inside and outside of my mouth from blows punches.
Speaker 3: The place he bit me on my forearm would take
Speaker 3: a long time to heal.
Speaker 1: It was that situation that is absolutely batshit crazy. I
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting that story. Let me ask you this, my
Speaker 1: cop brain is going to do you think this Ronaldo
Speaker 1: character set you up by taking you out there and
Speaker 1: then leaving in the middle of the night with your stuff?
Speaker 1: Was there some kind of arrangement with these people, maybe
Speaker 1: that he would bring you you would stumble into their
Speaker 1: abode so they could attack you. Do you think that's
Speaker 1: a bridge too far.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a bridge too far. That maybe
Speaker 3: he took what he thought was a wealthy foreignerroun into
Speaker 3: the jungle and decided to take my stuff and leave
Speaker 3: me there. Like I said, I have a lot of
Speaker 3: experience with the Philippines. I've been going there for twenty
Speaker 3: years now, ten fifteen times. My son has a Philippine
Speaker 3: passport in a US passport, and I speak the language.
Speaker 3: So what I understand from local people is they definitely
Speaker 3: believe in the Oswang, but they don't typically help them.
Speaker 3: It's an understanding that if there's trouble that's in that barangay,
Speaker 3: that the Aswangs will be blamed. What I've been told
Speaker 3: is that they're normal, acting looking people during the day,
Speaker 3: but then as this whatever part of their being takes
Speaker 3: over then that's when they become more like that. It's
Speaker 3: pretty common that if chickens or pigs or whatever go missing,
Speaker 3: that they blame the people that they believe in Oschwang.
Speaker 3: I think he probably did fully intend to do that.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was a wild goose chase from the beginning.
Speaker 3: He definitely took my stuff. I don't know though, if
Speaker 3: he knew that I would wind up at third place,
Speaker 3: or if they thought that if some random tourists disappears,
Speaker 3: it's okay because it's not one of the locals. I
Speaker 3: don't know about that part. I have people ask me,
Speaker 3: especially people that are in law enforcement or have been
Speaker 3: in law enforcement, They're like, why didn't you go to
Speaker 3: the police. It doesn't work like that in the Philippines.
Speaker 3: It does not work like that in the Philippines. At best,
Speaker 3: they would have laughed me off. At worst, they would
Speaker 3: have believed anybody else that wasn't a foreigner. They wouldn't
Speaker 3: have believed the four.
Speaker 1: It wasn't going to do that, and I.
Speaker 3: Certainly didn't want to go back to that area to
Speaker 3: point them out at that point, I just wanted to
Speaker 3: get back to Elo, get back to say.
Speaker 1: I definitely can't say that I blame you. I don't
Speaker 1: spend a ton of time in third world countries. I've
Speaker 1: been to El Salvador in the past. I did some
Speaker 1: work done there for the State Department back in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: But I have a friend who travels a lot to
Speaker 1: the Dominican Republic. Some of the stories that Ryan shares
Speaker 1: with me, it's very similar to the Philippines. It is
Speaker 1: a different world. You don't just go to the police
Speaker 1: and explain your situation. It's not like television where they
Speaker 1: solve it in thirty minutes. It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1: Very much like you said, sometimes it's just best to
Speaker 1: get out and get away with what you have, which
Speaker 1: is your life, which is the most important thing. This
Speaker 1: ashlong story brings me to a question that I ask
Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially somebody who's been into the research,
Speaker 1: who is a very skeptical person, because I relate to
Speaker 1: this very much. Where are you on your research with sasquatch,
Speaker 1: bigfoot being a flesh and blood creature versus some of
Speaker 1: the high strangeness of the wu Things that tend to
Speaker 1: happen to people are alleged to happen to people when
Speaker 1: they're out in the woods looking for these creatures.
Speaker 3: How do you.
Speaker 1: Reconcile that in your brain? Because it's been a tough
Speaker 1: thing for me talking to so many people, doing so
Speaker 1: many interviews. I've always been a flesh and blood guy.
Speaker 1: I think these things are some sort of a rele
Speaker 1: tomanoid Hamanan, But I've had weird experiences myself. Part of
Speaker 1: my experience out in the Pacific Northwest last summer was
Speaker 1: seeing glowing white eyes. We saw two sets of glowing
Speaker 1: white eyes, and then I see one of these creatures
Speaker 1: in the flesh seconds later. It wasn't eyeshine, it was
Speaker 1: self illuminating glowing white eyes, which to me, I consider
Speaker 1: that to be woo or high strangeness, or at least
Speaker 1: some sort of superability that these creatures apparently have. How
Speaker 1: do you reconcile that? How do you approach the difference
Speaker 1: in the flesh and blood camp versus some of the
Speaker 1: high strangeness or frankly, just unexplainable things that tend to
Speaker 1: happen in and around the Bigfoot community.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of that, right. So, I've seen
Speaker 3: the peaking out from a tree where the tree isn't
Speaker 3: large enough to fully obscure a creature that big, so
Speaker 3: that's very difficult. In the book, I talk about that.
Speaker 3: I talk about maybe this creature, if it is just
Speaker 3: physical and flesh and blood, maybe it has adaptations like
Speaker 3: bioluminescence characteristics where its eyes can glow as opposed to
Speaker 3: just reflective tap at them, lucidum where light reflects off
Speaker 3: the eyes. Maybe it has some type of cloaking ability,
Speaker 3: which again bioluminescence and cloaking, those are not unheard of.
Speaker 3: In the animal kingdom. We know animals that have that,
Speaker 3: everything from get gos, squids, anglerfish. They recently found out
Speaker 3: that there's some bioluminous characteristics. I think it was from
Speaker 3: the flying squirrel under a UV light. These things do exist.
Speaker 3: I talk about that in the book. But I also
Speaker 3: talk about theories that they come out of portals and
Speaker 3: they can disappear from some eyewitness reports, they can lend
Speaker 3: into the background. There's even some theories that they were
Speaker 3: protectors from maybe an ancient civilization. Right, I don't know
Speaker 3: what the right thing is. I really don't. What I
Speaker 3: wanted to do is I wanted to capture all these things,
Speaker 3: whether they're transdimensional or interdimensional or it's a physical creature,
Speaker 3: some species or offshoot of the evolutionary tract that we're
Speaker 3: just not familiar of, that maybe has these special abilities,
Speaker 3: maybe cloaking, er camouflage, or bioluminescence with the eyes. I
Speaker 3: wanted to document all of that in the book. Well,
Speaker 3: even if they're supernatural, there's some tribes that believe that
Speaker 3: they are protectors of the woods and forest and sacred lands,
Speaker 3: and they are partially supernatural in origin. I don't have
Speaker 3: those answers. I would love to have those answers, but
Speaker 3: I don't have that.
Speaker 1: I'm right there with you. That's what keeps me coming
Speaker 1: back to the well, sliding down the rabbit hole is
Speaker 1: those unanswered questions, because once you answer the question, very
Speaker 1: much like you did in two thousand and one and
Speaker 1: I did last summer, when the question is no longer
Speaker 1: do they exist, I am completely in the nowhere camp
Speaker 1: at this point. So now I'm obsessed with what are they?
Speaker 1: What can they do? And this is something that we've
Speaker 1: talked about multiple times on that Bigfoot podcast, one of
Speaker 1: my other shows, and this show in the past as well,
Speaker 1: is these creatures seem to be the quintessential anomaly in
Speaker 1: the natural kingdom. They are the biggest, fastest, baddest, quietest,
Speaker 1: They're the est of everything that they could be, and
Speaker 1: that is just something that doesn't exist. It's like comparing
Speaker 1: an animal like a cheetah to an elephant, for example.
Speaker 1: There's no comparison when it comes to size and strength
Speaker 1: of an animal like an elephant versus a cheetah, But
Speaker 1: a cheetah is one of the fastest, if not the fastest,
Speaker 1: animal on Earth. An elephant lumbers along right, but sasquatch
Speaker 1: seems to have all of the above. It's literally the
Speaker 1: Superman of all animals. If you listen to the anecdotal
Speaker 1: accounts that people give, the experiences and the encounters that
Speaker 1: they have with them. They sneak up on you. They're
Speaker 1: eight feet tall, they're four feet wide, there are a
Speaker 1: thousand pounds, but they don't break a twig when they
Speaker 1: sneak up on you. If they don't want you to
Speaker 1: know they're there, then when they leave the scene, they're
Speaker 1: the fastest thing in the world. They run faster, they
Speaker 1: disappear into the night.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it doesn't even look like they're moving with their legs.
Speaker 3: It looks like they're blighting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and none of that makes sense to me. So
Speaker 1: these creatures, if they are simply flesh and blood, we've
Speaker 1: got to find one and figure this out, because it's
Speaker 1: certainly going to take a specimen to convince science that
Speaker 1: these things are real, then to be able to figure
Speaker 1: these things out. Those are the kind of questions that
Speaker 1: I am now trying to answer for myself and for
Speaker 1: people that listen to the shows that I do. So
Speaker 1: the question for me is different. I'm no longer big
Speaker 1: into the evidence. I like to see pictures, I like
Speaker 1: to see photos, but really it doesn't mean shit to me.
Speaker 1: They're not going to be discovered because of a video
Speaker 1: and or a photo. If that were going to be
Speaker 1: the case, the Patterson Gimblin film would have sealed the
Speaker 1: deal back in sixty seven. I just don't think that's
Speaker 1: going to happen. I'm searching for what these things are,
Speaker 1: why we don't know more about them, and why they
Speaker 1: only seem to show themselves to certain people. There are
Speaker 1: people Peter Burn comes to mind, one of the four
Speaker 1: horsemen of Sasquatchery. Peter passed away a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I think I was the last person to interview him.
Speaker 1: Before he passed away, he'd been in the woods on
Speaker 1: multiple continents looking for these things for sixty years. I
Speaker 1: don't even think Peter ever even found a footprint on
Speaker 1: his own. He responded to areas where other people found footprints,
Speaker 1: but he never found one of his own. Then you
Speaker 1: have people who had multiple experienceperiences like me. I went
Speaker 1: out and had three sightings in two days. That does
Speaker 1: not make sense to me in my brain. That's what
Speaker 1: keeps me coming back to the well, wondering if there
Speaker 1: is something more to these creatures. I don't subscribe to
Speaker 1: some people say they show themselves to people that they
Speaker 1: want to see them. To me, that's a little bit
Speaker 1: too wu It's a little too high strangeness for me.
Speaker 1: But I'm open to it at least because looking at
Speaker 1: it from the conventional approach, the scientific approach that we
Speaker 1: have taken. I say we that a lot of people
Speaker 1: have taken in this search over the last fifty years
Speaker 1: or so, we're no farther down the field than we
Speaker 1: were fifty years ago. In my opinion, I'm glad that
Speaker 1: there are other people like you that are looking at
Speaker 1: both sides of this. Putting that out in a book
Speaker 1: for people to read and digest that information, because I
Speaker 1: think it's important to have that grounding in something that
Speaker 1: people can go to and figure this out, or at
Speaker 1: least try to help us figure it out and stay
Speaker 1: tuned for more sasquatch out to sea. We'll be right
Speaker 1: back after these messages. I don't know that we ever will,
Speaker 1: at least in my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if it is a flesh and blood creature, it
Speaker 3: will be the most unique and earth shattering probably that
Speaker 3: we've ever discovered on our planet. What is going to
Speaker 3: help with this? I work in it. I'm a doubly
Speaker 3: I'm an electrical engineer, so I think what is going
Speaker 3: to help is going to be drone and robotic technology.
Speaker 3: If you could have something out there that would maintain
Speaker 3: a presence, something that charged itself by solar, that was quiet,
Speaker 3: that could take on the smells of the environment, I
Speaker 3: think eventually that will help. But again, if these things
Speaker 3: can just I think minimally, there are the special forces
Speaker 3: wrapped in Native American hunter. They're the masters of their environment,
Speaker 3: which is going to add to the complexity of trying
Speaker 3: to locate something like that. I think really that's our
Speaker 3: best and greatest chance for this, but even then may
Speaker 3: not happen. I just know that there is something out there.
Speaker 3: It's something that we don't understand. I've looked into the
Speaker 3: eyes of people that I've interviewed, and I'm a good
Speaker 3: judge of character. I'm trained. As part of my job,
Speaker 3: I facilitate things that I'm trained to read people. I
Speaker 3: can tell that a lot of these folks are telling
Speaker 3: the truth. They believe this, they believe that they've seen it,
Speaker 3: They've experienced these things. This isn't made up. They're not
Speaker 3: trying to promote themselves. They're not trying to get limelight.
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're ashamed and afraid to tell these things. There's
Speaker 3: something there. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's
Speaker 3: definitely there.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about it. Before we get out
Speaker 1: of here. Give us the best elevator pitch for your book.
Speaker 1: Tell everybody where's the best place that they can go
Speaker 1: and pick it up.
Speaker 3: If you want a book that at least tries to
Speaker 3: look at all the angles for my witness accounts to folklore,
Speaker 3: to historical sightings, to debunking certain myths, that talks about
Speaker 3: exercises you can do to become more in tuned and
Speaker 3: at peace in the wilderness. You may be able to
Speaker 3: attract these things. If you want to see both sides
Speaker 3: the argument, see that weight against science and weight against
Speaker 3: natural law and examples. Pick up this book. There's plenty
Speaker 3: of stuff in there that is going to talk directly
Speaker 3: to believers and knowers. There's also plenty of things in
Speaker 3: there that are going to talk to skeptics. My whole
Speaker 3: concept was not to make anyone believe a certain way,
Speaker 3: but really just to lay it all out. Everything is
Speaker 3: a lie and everything is true and let that discussion,
Speaker 3: that debate kick off between people. So pick it up.
Speaker 3: It's good for both believers and skeptics.
Speaker 1: The book is called The Bigfoot Paradox Everything Is a
Speaker 1: Lie and Everything Is True by Justin McNeil. I will
Speaker 1: have a link right here in the show notes. All
Speaker 1: you got to do is click the link and go
Speaker 1: pick up your copy now. Justin thanks so much for
Speaker 1: coming on and sharing your experiences and talk about the book.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: I've had a blast talking.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Brian. This has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: I hope we run into each other in real life
Speaker 3: one of these days. It'd be great to meet you firston.
Speaker 1: You never know I'm always lurking somewhere as.
Speaker 3: Long as your eyes though turn red, man, because then
Speaker 3: I'm out of there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is some shit, man. I was not expecting
Speaker 1: that story. That was an unexpected gem. For sure.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it, man, Thank you. They say you don't
Speaker 3: gotta go home, but you.
Speaker 1: Can't stay and I don't want to be alone.
Speaker 4: World open inside inside, chart this chart, that chart. Everything
Speaker 4: came right back, right back, Joy for me, Joy stay
Speaker 4: right there, come in right away.
Speaker 5: Sissie still started said sass inside side inside and stars
Speaker 5: still sass basingsteads us states things things
Speaker 4: James James