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Speaker 3: Meaning a live.

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Speaker 4: Man like this man you letting butterfly flapping his wing.

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Dig down in a forest, man, it.

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Speaker 3: Gonna cause the tree fall.

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Speaker 4: Letting five thousand miles away. Man, nobody seen nobody, You

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don't need.

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Speaker 5: No Man's like you followed at a little story and

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you got back like that.

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Speaker 6: Man, that's man.

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Speaker 3: Man don't black and dang on the panel.

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Speaker 6: Man no matter.

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Speaker 3: Man All right, Aiden Paladin, Welcome back to the Jay

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Burdens Show.

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Speaker 6: How you doing?

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Speaker 4: I'm good, Hey, thanks for having me back. How are

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you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing quite well. I'm always excited to have you

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on our last discussion I think was particularly interesting. But uh,

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in the couple months since, you have continued to put

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out a lot of great work on your YouTube channel.

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Thank you, including a pretty interesting piece about left wing

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political violence. Now, obviously the big story really of the

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last year was the assassination of Charlie Kirk, but political

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violence has not stopped in the intervening time. Obviously, there's

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been dramatic footage out of Minnesota. Two ICE agents were

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shot in the Pacific Northwest overnight. This is continuing. So

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I'm curious if you could, could you describe what provoked

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you to make this and then you know what you found, right.

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Speaker 4: So it was the assassination of Charlie Kirk that was

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the impetus behind me looking into it. And then also

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what I found to be a consistent problem in looking

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into violence rates, terrorism rates, these kinds of things is

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that there are often gaps in the data that are

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just not accounted for, and so I wanted to take

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a look for myself and see what we've got, For example,

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massive data sets, the purest data set, which is Personals

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of individual Radicalization in the United States, and then the

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Global Terrorism Database. These are particularly the GTD Global Terrorism

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Database is enormous. It's like forty eight thousand cases or

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something like that, huge enormous data set that goes back

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to the nineteen seventies, and the United States one purist

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that goes back to the nineteen forties. So you have

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an enormous amount of information in these data sets, and

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what they include are not just Particularly the Global Terrorism

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Database is very good on this one. It doesn't just

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include injuries and casualties. It also includes attempted terrorist attacks

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that didn't necessarily result in any injury or casualty, and

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then it categorizes them when possible along with known domestic,

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internet or international terrorist groups a group affiliation. And what

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I was able to find in going through that is

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that it seems that the left is because we commonly

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hear that the right conducts far more acts of violence.

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And first of all, in order to be able to

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nail down what do you mean by the right is

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more violent than the left, I decided to narrow that

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down into acts of terror because I think those are

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the most extreme. They're also far easier to classify as

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an intentional political attack rather than things like street violence

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or prison violence, which can have all sorts of motivations, interpersonal.

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You know, with gangs, there's all kinds of drama and

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things that are things that are involved in that. But

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with terrorism, it's directed and it's usually political in some way.

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So if I went through the when I went through

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the Global Terrorism Database and accounted for all of the

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attempted attacks that were not successful, groups that were broadly

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speaking left wing, and I went through and not only

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categorize them them myself based on you know, known affiliations,

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like what do these groups represent? And they break down

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into things like, particularly if you look at history, environmental groups,

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animal rights groups, and then of course you have things

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like Antifa and you know, more modern sort of left

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wing groups versus the right wing ones. You know, your

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classic KKK whatever you think about that, being aligned with

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Democrats or not. You know, anti Islam is that one

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can be a little bit iffy in some cases. But

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broad speaking, so like whether underground classic left leaning terrorist

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organization ku Klux Klan, whatever you think of them, is

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categorized typically as a right wing organization, went through and

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checked those. I also ran my personal checks of these

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versus what other scholars had done. My alignment and my

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categorizations lined up with theirs more or less identically, with

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a couple of very slight variations. So I had both

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gone through it myself and validated it with external sources.

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And what I found is that people or left wing

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groups were as likely to attempt acts of terror. Actually

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they were slightly more so by about point five percent,

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but it was nearly identical. The difference was that when

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a left wing group or individual engaged in any sort

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of terrorism, they were far less likely to kill or

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injure anyone. I'm trying to find the exact statistic here

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because I have it in my notes. The percentage of

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right wing groups being completed attacks perpetrated in twenty two

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and twenty nineteen in the US that resulted at least

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one injury was sixty four point three percent. Well, fifty

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nine percent of left wing completed attacks resulted in at

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least one injury in that timeframe. A data further regarding

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deaths illustrate this difference, as of completed right wing attacks

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during this period, fifty percent resulted in at least one death, well,

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twenty nine percent of completed left wing attacks resulted in

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at least one death. In total, a right wing attack

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is on average one point seven times one point seven

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two times more likely to result in a death than

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as a left wing attack, and a right wing attack

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is one point nine times more likely to result in

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an injury than is a left wing attack based on

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trends in two thousand and two, So it seems to

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be that the difference is not so much one of intent,

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it's one of competence. The left, when it decides that

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anyone on the left, either groups or individuals, decide they

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want to engage in political terrorism, are far less efficacious

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at carrying it out. If the goal of terrorism is

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what the goal of terrorism is to terrorize people through death, injury,

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and violence.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that there's several interesting factors here. I

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think one of them. And I'm glad you brought up

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the prison violence, right because oftentimes in discussions of these statistics,

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and you see this a ton as well in the

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discussion around school shootings, right, there's sort of a deliberate,

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a calculated effort to sort of chum the waters, right,

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And so like, you know, some guy getting depressed and

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you know, painting his brains over the roof of his

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Honda Civic is okay, sure that is a time a

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gun was shot on a school property. That's not what

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we're talking about. Somewhat similarly, you know, I don't pretend

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to have any insight into how the Arian Brotherhood works,

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but not really a political group per se. Any it's

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sort of a different thing. Like if you go in

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there and talk to those guys about like Francis Parker Yaki,

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you probably won't get a warm response. Now, that said,

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one of the things that you know, just upon first

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hearing this from you, my reaction is, well, okay, So

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that's when we consider the kind of like very serious

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political terrorism. But what patterns do we see on the

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kind of lower level violence, right, not necessarily street fights,

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but for instance, I'm sure you saw the dramatic footage

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of this conservative figure in Minnesota being you know, dragged

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into a crowd and stabbed. How is something like that classified?

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And also, and I realized this has past the scope

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of what I was supposed to ask you, but you know.

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Speaker 6: I'm curious about it.

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Speaker 3: How does that bear out in the data for.

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Speaker 4: What I looked at in Global Terrorism database and in

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piis that isn't usually included because street riots and violence

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like that, you're talking about emotional social contagion. There's emotions

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are running high and they become contagious amongst crowds. This

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is you know, very old why you don't shout fire

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in a crowded movie theater. It makes everyone freak out

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and they share their emotions instantaneously. This is mirror neuron stuff.

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It evolved somewhere between twenty five and sixty five million

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years ago. In primates, people have to be able to

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communicate their emotions instantaneously via non rebel cues. So as

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a result, it becomes very difficult even if one side

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ends up committing more acts of violence against the other.

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In terms of street violence, it's usually not planned. So

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when I was specifically looking at the terrorism information, that

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was to try and find a way to operationalize who

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does violence and why is it that there is this

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pervasive narrative that the right is overwhelmingly violent comparatively to

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the left. And the reason why you're able to get

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those kinds of findings from the data is again a

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confidence issue, not a confidence issue. The left seems just

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as confident in doing violence, and that's why they will

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go out into the streets and stab somebody, particularly when

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they're in these highly emotional, emotionally contagious environments. And funnily enough,

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it links back to something that leftists themselves tend to

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tout as their number one virtue, which is empathy. Ultimately,

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that behavior, the street violence, the crowd violence, is driven

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by those mirror neuron responses that are evolutionary adapted, evolutionarily

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adapted and allow them to translate these emotions amongst each other.

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They do organize, but it doesn't have to be organized.

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The violence can erupt simultaneous or spontaneously, and it becomes

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difficult to then pull apart well who started what was

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this ideologically driven or was this emotionally driven? And where

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do you draw the line there? And I think it

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is difficult to delineate the two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to get into that sort of empathy

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you mentioned before we went live. You were talking about,

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you know, Goad Sad and his framing of suicidal empathy,

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a term I actually did not know. He was irresponsible

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for popularizing. I've heard it through him.

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Speaker 4: So he's about to publish a book on it, and

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I think like three weeks so he's been He's not

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the only one. It's been popularized by plenty of people,

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but I think Elon Musk has been on Joe Rogan

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to talk about God Sad's suicidal empathy hypothesis and stuff,

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so I think he's become sort of the face of it.

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Speaker 3: And so, as far as I understand, this is effectively

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a pithier way to explain in the heat map meat,

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which you know, for those who aren't familiar and terminally online, it's,

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you know, a way to categorize how people rank order

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their attachments. People generally described as conservative place the most

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weight on their immediate connections with kind of a slow

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taper off, whereas liberals, and again this is stated instead

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of revealed, but place a much higher level of pull

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or sway on these sort of universal bonds towards humanity

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writ large or the universe, these these kind of more

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abstract concepts. And so I'm curious, right when we talk

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about empathy, what do you see going on there? And

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you mentioned that you have at least some issues with

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that term suicidal empathy, and I'm curious to get your

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thoughts on it.

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Speaker 4: So the Weights at All twenty fourteen analysis, the heat

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map mean is probably like one of the most misunderstood,

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i think intentionally misunderstood studies because it reveals something about

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the Left that I think they feel very uncomfortable about.

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The Weights at All analysis contains several studies and of

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itself that produce that heat mapp. That's just from one

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of the studies they conducted.

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Speaker 7: January Sky January Sale time.

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Speaker 4: In one of the studies in the set, they gave

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people a limited amount of empathy, and that's the most

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That's the study within the set that I think has

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the most very similitude, because empathy, as energy as time

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is inherently limited. If every single person, or if anyone

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cared about every single thing in the whole universe all

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the time, as leftist claimed to be able to do,

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you'd be apoplectech. You would not be able to get

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anything done in your your own life because you'd be

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so overarmed with emotions all the time. Empathy emotions are

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intrinsically discriminatory. You have to choose what to care about

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and what not to care about, otherwise you couldn't function.

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So what I think the weights that all analysis actually reveals,

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and I've made statements about this before, is that in

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terms of where to select the empathy, leftists put it

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out in this very far concentric ring, I think it

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is the centers around about twelve or ten out very distantly,

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and that's all of humanity, all animals, all things in existence.

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The fourteenth concentric ring is all things in an existence.

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That's where their lo ki of care is concerned, whereas yes,

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with conservatives, their loki of care is friends, family, nation.

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When you talk about how much empathy that you have,

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because it is a limited resource, what this means in

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practice is not so much I care about all things

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in existence because you only have so much. That means

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it has to be divided by all things in it existence. Functionally,

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that means I don't care about anything except one thing.

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I care about how I am perceived by others. In

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claiming to care about anything and everything, that is narcissism.

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That's which, as it turns out, is the only one

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of the dark triad traits tetrad traits that is not

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negatively linked to any measure of empathy. Narcissists are actually

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very good at wielding and using empathy. And by narcissists,

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I don't just mean people with clinical pathological levels of narcissism.

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I mean with subclinical narcissistic traits. What seems to be

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the overwhelming factor here that drives a leftist empathy is

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actually narcissism. It's self enhancement, and it's making the self

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look good. So when the leftist answered the weights at

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all analysis there, they weren't thinking, no, I really care

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about everything in an existence. They were thinking, I want

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to look good to the researchers reading this page, reading

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my response to this, or it is what he is

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like a good person say yes, you know yes.

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Speaker 3: And this is a common issue in statistical sampling, right

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that you oftentimes get the answers that people think you

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want to hear instead of what they actually think.

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Speaker 4: Social Yes, I.

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Speaker 3: Think it even relates to this whole this sort of

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aesthetics of protest culture right where you see this constantly,

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and conservatives make fun of these images, you know, where

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they'll see a protest and they'll see all of these

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people with cameras, you know, crowded around some sort of image,

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right like that. The famous one you see in social

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media is a burning trash can. And so you know,

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one half of the image Macro will have this dramatic

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shot of a burning trash can. The other shot from

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a christ across the street shows a bunch of guys

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with cameras standing in a largely empty city square with

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a burning trash can. And they're right to make fun

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of that because it is ridiculous. But on the same

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to look at it another way, No, that's the power

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of it, yes, right, Because what matters in this instance

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isn't actually the mechanics of a protest, right, It isn't

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actually how many people there. It is the sort of

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the memetic impact of it.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 3: That event becomes those images and if you can in

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your insert yourself into those images. And we've seen this

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over and over and over again with the ice protests

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in Minneapolis, right, these sort of failed attempts to create

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an iconic moment. You know, you can think of the

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you know, the rather you know, rotund woman, you know,

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standing out in imitation of that famous photo of you know,

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the Chinese guy who has run over by tanks, and

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of course that didn't happen, right, She wasn't actually ground

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a pulp, and she did not become you know, one

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of these iconic images like the students placing flowers into

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the barrels of the rifle.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: But you can see the attempt because again, the point

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is not the protest. The point is to be a

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person who is protesting and who is captured and who

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is part of this sort of as you said earlier,

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social contagion.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and the reason to do that is again because

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this is something not everyone who engages an activism is

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a narcissist. However, activism very much appeals to narcissists. And

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there's significant research on this that it certainly seems that

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the reason why let me see if I can find

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this citation right here on this there's wits. Let's see,

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they do tend to do that. People who engage in

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political action are often driven out of a desire to

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be recognized. They want to be photographed. It is about

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gaining attention, it's about creating, yes, these powerful images. Also

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because that spreads the emotional contagion that spreads the message.

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When other people see something that is emotionally evocative, like

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a sad film, well you might think, why would anyone

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want to watch a sad film if it's spreading negative emotions?

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Feeling negative emotions is inherently unpleasant. However, people report consistently

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that when they watch a sad movie, they enjoy it

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when they in fact, there's a specific study on this,

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let me find it here in film where this is

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Hanich and colleagues Hannich at All twenty fourteen that were

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specifically scenes where someone was told about the death of

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a friend or relative, and when people said that the

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scene made them feel sad, they had greater express greater

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intention to watch the movie again if they had seen

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it before, or to watch it if they'd never seen it.

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So there is a positive emotional experience, a vicarious emotional

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experience that's gained by feeling sad negative emotions because it's

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very powerful, So it is potent, a potent political tool

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to evoke negative emotions in other people. It doesn't necessarily

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actually make them feel bad because they're feeling these emotions

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from a safe distance.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, and this is something that the ancients recognized, right,

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like the whole concept of a tragedy. Yes, it was

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seen as both. And look, this is a much better

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version of the mechanic we're describing. But you have this

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idea of Catharsis, right, this sort of letting out of emotion.

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But also this was seen as a civic act, right,

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something that would sort of unify people because it was

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a common emotional experience. And there's a kind of quip

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that runs around right where it's like liberals don't actually

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know things, they've just seen a couple of TV shows

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and they base their opinions on the world on well

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those TV shows.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got a specific fighting on that as well.

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Speaker 3: Oh well good, that was just a prejudice that I had,

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and I'm glad to know that there's science to back

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it up. Really the only time I care about science.

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But in all seriousness, right, that very much is an

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aspect of you know, the cultural lefts power, Right, is

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this kind of you know, cultural mean complexes where you know,

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these common emotional experiences and I think perhaps you see

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this the best with the baby boomers because they lived

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in a much more unified culture than either you or

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I grew up in. But you can almost tell when

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and you know, Devin Stack of Black Pilt has talked

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about this, and you know, I may disagree with him

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on certain things, but he's completely right here where he

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talks about the Boomer speech right where you can tell

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in their head they're running through that moment from Field

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of Dreams or that moment in Dead Poe Society. It's

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like the TV has taken over them, has possessed them.

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And in much the same way, right, these incredibly powerful,

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in some cases negative experiences. You could argue, there's something

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you know, similar around a prominent twentieth century as a

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religious political disaster. Right, people speak around it for the

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whichever Indian is running YouTube, but it becomes this incredibly

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powerful political force, that kind of emotional outpour. But aiden

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you said you had actual science to back that up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a twenty nineteen study from Haymiddal And what

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they did is that if you've seen the memes where

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it's very common to see particularly people on the left

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do this, although I've seen I guess some people on

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the right do it as well. It's not that the

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people on the right don't tend to get attached to

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fictional figures. Amelia is certainly an example of.

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Speaker 3: One literally me right, Ryan Goslin.

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Speaker 4: There's plenty of those as well, but you'll often see

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what the left tends to do more specifically, is less

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the literally me maybe, but it's more this character would

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agree with my political opinions and sort of using fictional

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characters who are seen as.

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Speaker 3: The donkey Kong says trans rights things right.

401
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Speaker 4: Yes, and that's been found Hay Middle twenty nineteen. Specifically,

402
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what they found is that one aspect of effective empathy

403
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which is called peripheral rest Peripheral responsivity, those are emotional

404
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reactives to immersive cues that you find in film and television,

405
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was negatively related to all three dark triad traits, which

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means that people who emotionally engage with fictional characters tend

407
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to score lower in dark personality traits, But peripheral responsivity

408
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had no relationship to any form of indirect relational aggression.

409
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Indirect relational aggression are things like social exclusion, malicious humor,

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and guilt tripping. So the people who post the spider

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Man would vote the way I do are not necessarily

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dark triad, but they are more likely to engage in

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interpersonal aggression towards other people to force them via guilt tripping,

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to force them via social exclusion and other tactics to

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agree with them. It's social austracization and its aggression. All

416
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that empathizing with fictional character stuff actually leads to exclusionary behaviors.

417
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a really you know, interesting thing as well,

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because you know, you mentioned before, right, the difference between

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you know, empathy per se and desire, being desirous of

420
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being perceived as empathetic and another aspect of that as well,

421
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,079
I think is that maybe this is a slightly different dynamic,

422
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is uh, the desire to on one hand purge others

423
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and also avoid the purge, you know, the the kind

424
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of like social competition that this belief structure allows you

425
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to engage in. Like, for instance, you've literally ever worked

426
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in an academic setting, you see this all the time,

427
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that there is this sort of jockeying behind the scenes

428
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using kind of you know, progressive politics, right, because that

429
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:51,720
is a secondary you know, I guess you'd say, method

430
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of advancement, and when that becomes the kind of one

431
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of the primary methods for sorting yourself, and that becomes

432
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sort of like a known exploit, even aside from the

433
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other things you're talking about, where these behaviors in particular

434
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are associated with certain aspects or certain left wing political views.

435
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:13,680
So when you were now adding an additional layer of

436
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,799
selection on top, right, adding a sort of like ruthless game, yes,

437
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,839
side by side to select for these sort of dark

438
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,720
tech trad personality traits.

439
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 4: It's a survival pressure, is exactly what it is. If

440
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,920
you are going to survive in predominantly left wing space,

441
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,000
you need to be performative that's why they're going out

442
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:37,039
into the streets right now in Minnesota and going and

443
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you know, tracking down random people on the street and saying, okay, shout,

444
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,119
you know, f ice, f ice, you have to engage

445
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,279
in the performance or else you haven't painted the blood

446
00:25:47,319 --> 00:25:50,359
over the top of your door to let us know

447
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,200
that we can pass over you. It's required within their

448
00:25:54,839 --> 00:25:59,599
collective mindset that if you don't engage in this performative empathy,

449
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tactical empathy, whatever you want to call it, therefore you

450
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are unempathetic, and more specifically, you are unhuman. The dehumanization

451
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,640
factor that occurs with this, I mean, I think it's why,

452
00:26:09,759 --> 00:26:14,200
like many things, obviously the overuse of terms like nazi, fascist,

453
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,720
those are all intended to dehumanize. And the reason for

454
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:21,000
that is, as I mentioned, it's because empathy need be selective,

455
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because you can't care for all the people all the time.

456
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So in order to divest themselves of caring for people,

457
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they have to give them labels like nazi or fascist.

458
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That makes them unhuman. And that's been linked by the

459
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way to grandiose and to vulnerable narcissism. That specific type

460
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of dehumanization in political ideology specifically.

461
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:50,079
Speaker 3: And I'm curious to get your thoughts, Aiden, because obviously

462
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:56,279
the discussion around the Charlie kirkshooter is incredibly fraught. People

463
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have a lot of different opinions. I'll lead at that,

464
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and I just know by mentioning this, I will get

465
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,000
one comment from one guy I know who you are,

466
00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:06,599
who will tell me Charlie Kirk wasn't shot. But in

467
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,400
all seriousness, right, when you look at in figures like

468
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:17,920
you know Tiler Kyler Robbins, Yeah, the the Kirk shooter,

469
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:20,359
or you know these other kind of you know, lone

470
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,359
wolf attackers, the guy who shot three quadmalins trying to

471
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,640
hit Ice agents. Again going back to your thesis of confidence.

472
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:32,079
But to me, and this has been remarked upon, even

473
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,279
going back to oh who is the assassin?

474
00:27:34,319 --> 00:27:34,599
Speaker 6: That was?

475
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 3: His execution was summarized in Foucaut's Crime and Punish shoot.

476
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,119
He was an attempted regal assassin. But you see this

477
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:51,720
same on one hand, uh, you know, delusions of grandeur

478
00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:54,440
but also narcissist, right, the idea that I will make

479
00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,960
my mark on history through this one defining act. Yes,

480
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,680
And so I'm curious when you you have this kind

481
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,720
of you know, all of these variables coming together. It

482
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,119
seems that it's almost a miracle that we've only had,

483
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:11,559
you know, one successful and another attempted assassination in the

484
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,440
last couple of years, because it seems as if this

485
00:28:13,519 --> 00:28:16,480
is sort of a perfect storm for you know, narcissists

486
00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:17,160
to lash out.

487
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's at the end of twenty twenty five,

488
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,200
or near the end, I think it was. In August,

489
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,200
Centers for the State for Strategic and International Studies conducted

490
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,559
a survey on the number of right versus left wing

491
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,880
terrorist attacks or plots that had occurred since nineteen ninety

492
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:39,119
and what they found is that last year, September twenty

493
00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:41,319
twenty five is when it was conducted, I think, or

494
00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:44,559
at least published, was that, and that was before the

495
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:46,880
shooting of Charlie Kirk. Was that even at that time

496
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:50,640
it was the first year ever since the nineties that

497
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,559
labeled left wing violence had surpassed right wing violence. And

498
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:59,319
that year was according to from terrorist affiliated groups, it

499
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:01,720
was zero from the right to five on the left.

500
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:05,880
I think that the left is so activated now. These

501
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,000
are things that have always existed, and particularly this pathological

502
00:29:09,759 --> 00:29:14,839
in some cases but oftentimes not pathological just trait like

503
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,480
narcissism that is raised up by the left because whoever

504
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:22,599
can be the biggest performative activist in some way or

505
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:26,359
another is given the most attention. It gains so much

506
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,079
social capital, so much social credit for them to behave

507
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,319
this way, particularly in the age of social media where

508
00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:36,000
everything is put online, that it causes people who may

509
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,400
have some narcissistic tendencies to actively go out and engage

510
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,960
in violence and dangerous activity, people like Rene Good that

511
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,720
they wouldn't do in any other circumstance because they're just

512
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,880
focused on the social capital and they see examples of

513
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,480
how much social capital can be gained. Who's the guy

514
00:29:55,519 --> 00:29:57,799
that a lot of like the Hassan Piker crowd, are

515
00:29:57,799 --> 00:30:03,000
obsessed with who shot the not call written how although

516
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,279
they certainly hate him? Short the healthcare ceo.

517
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,079
Speaker 3: Oh Luigi Mangoni, Mangioni.

518
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 4: That's it. Yes, these peop will become folk heroes even

519
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,720
though they're in prison or dead. It doesn't matter. And

520
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,680
a lot of times when it seems paradoxical, why would

521
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,160
a narcissist or someone with narcissistic traits put themselves in danger?

522
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:27,480
The one the thing they value the most in danger.

523
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,400
It's because the gain that they perceive of from that

524
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:38,119
they will get from doing these behaviors enter that's what

525
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,119
calculates first, rather than the possibility, because a narcissist or

526
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,960
someone with narcissisic traits doesn't consider the alternative that they

527
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,519
could be hurt, that they could die, because they're great,

528
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,119
They're so perfect. There is such an awesome person. There's

529
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,359
no way anything bad could happen to me. So they

530
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:58,119
don't calculate for that. They just and even if it's

531
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,720
calculated sort of in the back of their heads, it's like, well,

532
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,160
if I'm martyred, I'll be even more celebrated, I'll gain

533
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,920
even more social capital. Doesn't you can't use it if

534
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,880
you're dead. But that part doesn't compute. I don't think.

535
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: Well, And that's another way to explain you know, the

536
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,799
main character syndrome, right, and you see this viewing, you

537
00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:22,920
know footage of many of these activists that they genuinely believe,

538
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,599
as the meme goes, that they're in a Marvel movie, yes, right,

539
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:28,960
that they are at this kind of orchestrated you know

540
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:31,839
event where they will you do something grand and be

541
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,319
recognized for it I wanted to create correct my citation.

542
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,319
It was discipline and punished, and the execution was of

543
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,920
Robert Francois Domienne, who attempted to assassinate King Lewis king

544
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,039
Lee the heat very gruesome execution. Interesting book. Not the

545
00:31:51,079 --> 00:31:54,839
biggest fan of Fucou, but there's a lot there. Conversation

546
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,920
for another day. I just wanted to correct that point.

547
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,599
Is I think that that that aspect of sort of

548
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:09,400
internally minimizing the consequences is is kind of interesting, especially

549
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,920
when you combine this with and you see this in

550
00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:18,680
you know, Robinson Crooks, you know many of these kind

551
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,839
of you know, mass shooters right even before them, who

552
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,119
have this kind of you know, incredible I guess you

553
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,799
could say incredible uh you know nihilism about them. It's

554
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:34,759
the idea that you know, effectively nothing matters. And let's

555
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:38,440
be honest, you know, nihilism and narcissism are linked.

556
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:39,039
Speaker 6: Right.

557
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:41,039
Speaker 3: That's something that people have been writing about for quite

558
00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:44,519
some time. But I think it's sort of an interesting

559
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,720
thing as well because and if you've gone into the

560
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,759
there's this whole interesting uh you know circle. People call

561
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:55,440
it like shooter core, right, which is these online communities

562
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:58,920
that are sort of obsessed with school shooters, obsessed with

563
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,799
political violence. A lot of it is teenage edge lord stuff,

564
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,640
but they do keep producing these killers, like I'm not

565
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,400
sure if you remember the black Graper who shot up

566
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,880
a school. Oh yeah, you're odd guy. But these sort

567
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:23,519
of unfortunate individuals tend to sort into these communities. But again,

568
00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:25,880
right there is this repeat and you can see it.

569
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,279
There's a woman on substack b X I think b

570
00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:31,720
X rights. She does some interesting work on it, talking

571
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:37,559
about this sort of one vast minimization of consequences, where

572
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:40,000
the idea is, you know you will die in a

573
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,160
hail of glory, you know you will be able to

574
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,519
get your message out there. This will become like Ted Kazenski,

575
00:33:45,559 --> 00:33:48,359
this kind of underground tome. You know that that sort

576
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:51,119
of you know, produces some sort of cultural response and

577
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,640
you will have you know, left your mark. Right then

578
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,599
the kind of narcissism part. And it's always interesting to

579
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,920
me to see the cases where you can find all

580
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,240
of those, all of those I guess you could say elements,

581
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:10,239
but not necessarily the conclusion, because this comes back to

582
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,079
our discussion of politicized violence. So the origin of the

583
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,639
chud Jack I believe was the Dallas Fort orthshooter went

584
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,719
to a grocery store, you know, killed a number of

585
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:25,440
people for being Hispanic. And what's interesting about that is that,

586
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:27,440
you know, he was reported as this kind of like

587
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,119
four Chan neo Nazi, but if you've read his manifesto,

588
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:36,119
it's completely insane, right, there's no political through lines whatsoever.

589
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,079
It is simply a sort of way to you know,

590
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:43,159
strike out, a way to you know, to basically answer

591
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:47,519
that combination of narcissism and nihilism. And I'm curious how

592
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:49,719
many of these people who were being drawn to the

593
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,519
left for the sake of political violence are there for

594
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:55,199
that reason instead of any you know, left wing politics

595
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,840
in particular. Aid. Sorry, that was a massive rant for me.

596
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,519
I'll throw him.

597
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:00,199
Speaker 1: Yeah.

598
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 4: There's two things that are related to that. One is

599
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:08,400
a study from Adam Schink adm ad A. Mczyk at

600
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,840
all from twenty twenty five, and they found that the

601
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,159
extreme ideologies of either side were related to For the right,

602
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,679
it was just grandiose narcissism. For the left it was

603
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,480
both vulnerable and grandiose narcissism. And again that doesn't mean

604
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,440
it's coherent and these are specifically what they classify as

605
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,360
extreme ideologies. So for people who were to the far

606
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,280
of either side those types of extreme you know, political

607
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,760
opinions are driven oftentimes by mental illness or at least

608
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,559
mental instability when you start talking about people who are

609
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:46,559
way way out there, so you will get that on

610
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:51,440
both sides. But Crispin and Bertram's twenty twenty five also

611
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:53,840
in their study they called this the dark ego vehicle,

612
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,599
which is specifically that individuals with pronounced dark personalities may

613
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,920
repurpose political and pro social activist This is a quote,

614
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:03,639
as a vehicle to satisfy their ego focused needs rather

615
00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:06,039
than for the pursuit of pro social goals and social justice,

616
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:09,119
since participation in such activism may gave us give those

617
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:13,079
individuals not only opportunities to gain social status and engage

618
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:16,559
in social conflicts, but also to display moral superiority and

619
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,480
in my opinion, most importantly, dominate others. So you're talking

620
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,440
about people already who are emotionally or psychologically unstable, who

621
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,880
are going to go the furthest with this, the little

622
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,280
street level violence. Renee Good trying to hit a vice

623
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,760
officer with her car or whatever she was trying to

624
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:39,880
do there exactly Who's probably not? Just like abject pathological narcissism.

625
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,320
What drives a lot of these people to extreme acts,

626
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,599
as you say, it's that they'll be memoralized forever. That

627
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,320
is the ultimate goal of a narcissist or someone with

628
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:54,880
extreme narcissistics traits. It's more important to be memorialized to

629
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,639
be deified. And particularly I think when you combine that

630
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,159
with atheism or at least a lack of belief in

631
00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:05,559
an afterlife. Why you've only got one shot, don't you.

632
00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,320
You have one lifetime, You have one time, this one

633
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,239
life to leave your mark on the world. Might as

634
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,000
well go out in a blaze of glory. The guy

635
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:13,920
who set himself on fire.

636
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 3: What was his name, Aaron Bush?

637
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:17,159
Speaker 6: Now?

638
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,199
Speaker 4: Aaron Bush? Now? Yes, because I was looking at that too.

639
00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:25,079
Why did that guy do that? Ultimately, that's narcissism. It

640
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,159
seems insane to do something so devastating to the solve,

641
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:36,400
But I think the core of that is a narcissistic tendency.

642
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that I want to get into.

643
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:49,559
You mentioned two distinct types of narcissism. There, grandiose and

644
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:51,840
then another category which I wasn't familiar with. Could you

645
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,599
explain the distinction between those.

646
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:57,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, grandiose narcissism. Let me find my first citation on this,

647
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,360
just so I can read it specifically, so I'm quite

648
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:09,000
clear on it. Where is it? Okay, let's see grandiose narcissism. No,

649
00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:10,599
do I have this in the wrong order?

650
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:11,159
Speaker 5: Oh?

651
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: I do.

652
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,519
Speaker 4: It's because of how I've organized my stuff. Oh man,

653
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,679
Grandiose narcissism is essentially it's like, it's what we classically

654
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:27,920
think of with narcissism. I'm the best ever, I'm so important,

655
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,480
I'm the most amazing person in the world, whereas vulnerable

656
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:33,920
narcissism is a little bit different. That tends to be

657
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:40,440
people with actually very unstable egos, and the vulnerable narcissism

658
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,039
where's my It's hyper sensitivity to criticism, fragile self esteem,

659
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,320
and insecurity often masked by victimhood. So it's unsurprising that

660
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,960
you find vulnerable narcissism being a little bit more common

661
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,199
in leftist with extreme ide ideology, and although they also

662
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,239
have grandiose narcissism, again inflated self importance that is more

663
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:07,000
commonly linked with extreme right wing ideological positions. However, again

664
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:09,519
when you talk about the fringes of politics and people

665
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:14,880
who will go out and do violent, crazy things, even

666
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:20,599
though it is self harmful, self terminating, even it's this

667
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,559
dark ego vehicle.

668
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 3: Well, I think that one other aspect of this that

669
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,000
it seems as if many people are unprepared for, and

670
00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:42,360
I particularly mean older generations, is because of effectively the internet,

671
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,039
right rapid communication. This is no longer something that is

672
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:51,480
sort of highly geographically correlated. Like, sure, there's still more

673
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:54,239
riots in Portland. You're much more likely to be involved

674
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,440
in physical violence there for political reasons than anywhere else.

675
00:39:58,119 --> 00:40:02,400
But have you fought at all, Not that you should have,

676
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:08,039
but the kind of flick armed trans groups like the

677
00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:10,000
two A for all crowd. Have you paid attention to

678
00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:10,480
that at all?

679
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 4: I've noticed some of it, that's of course been growing

680
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,519
in frequency. That's come up a lot now again in

681
00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:19,320
Minnesota with all the people out there with guns and

682
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,400
oh wait, I thought you were pro to a what's

683
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,519
your problem with these guys being out here armed?

684
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 6: Yes?

685
00:40:25,559 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: Exactly, like what you hypocrite? Why do you do you

686
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:32,880
object to this? You know, mentally unwell manned address heavily armed?

687
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,559
Speaker 6: Uh?

688
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 3: I was rude anyway, in.

689
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 4: Just accurate statistically speaking.

690
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 3: But my point being is that because of algorithms, because

691
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,280
of particularly chat services like Discord, but the same thing

692
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,920
happens on Telegram and others, this is no longer geographically correlated,

693
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,800
which I think is quite interesting. So you have this phenomenon,

694
00:40:58,039 --> 00:41:00,000
and you know, I see this in a relatively conservative

695
00:41:00,119 --> 00:41:02,000
area of the country where you sort of have these

696
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,320
almost like sleeper cells, right, who have formed a sort

697
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,920
of a nondirect digital community where these sort of ideas

698
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,800
are kind of amplified within one echo chamber. And I

699
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,599
think that that's a very interesting dynamic because before it

700
00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:20,119
was like, oh well, you know, I can reliably be

701
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:22,960
assured that a teenager in Biloxi, Mississippi will be different

702
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,599
from one in Brooklyn, New York. And you know, while

703
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,559
that still may be sure on like a demographic level,

704
00:41:29,039 --> 00:41:32,280
the political extremism I think is a very different beast

705
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,599
from the pre digital era.

706
00:41:34,119 --> 00:41:38,119
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. So for example, there's a study I covered

707
00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:40,400
this in the video I did on the Violent Stuff.

708
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,880
It's a Bacca, Cerivianus and Blackburn from twenty twenty three,

709
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,920
and they were looking at tanky subreddits, which is like

710
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,880
the perfect example of this stuff of what you're talking

711
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,920
about there, I think, where it's a group of people

712
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:56,719
who have some shared political ideology, are perhaps quite similar

713
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,360
political ideology, and what they sit around doing is compared

714
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,519
to the rest of Reddit, which is already you know,

715
00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:08,599
leftist in nature, the tanky subreddits were a hundred times

716
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:11,079
more likely to make threats, fifty times more likely to

717
00:42:11,079 --> 00:42:13,559
attack the identity of others, twenty one point two times

718
00:42:13,559 --> 00:42:16,000
more likely to insult others, and five point three times

719
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,239
more likely to use profanity than the rest of Reddit.

720
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:22,920
They end up getting involved in these like you know,

721
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:27,480
highly ideologically extreme circles talking about things. And by the way,

722
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:29,400
the things that they talked about the most on these

723
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:34,079
English speaking subreddits was it wasn't things like that were

724
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:36,960
mostly related to US politics. A lot of it was

725
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:42,239
what were the things they were so Nikolaiechchescu, they hate him,

726
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,840
They talk about him all the time, for example, all

727
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,199
kinds of anger about that Israel Palestine, the weaker. Actually

728
00:42:50,559 --> 00:42:52,360
they don't call it the weaker genocide. They call that

729
00:42:52,559 --> 00:42:55,960
weaker re education camps or I should re education centers

730
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,400
or just re education or not even re education. What's

731
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,719
the word they used for it. Oh sorry, boarding schools,

732
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,199
that was the term weird boarding schools. They use different

733
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,559
language in order to reframe things, and they tend to

734
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:12,559
focus very much on things that are happening on the

735
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:15,199
other side of the planet. They don't talk a lot

736
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:18,280
about things that are happening nearby them, which it can

737
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,320
only be facilitated by the Internet and access to these

738
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,719
things that happen worldwide all the time, which actually kind

739
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,039
of goes back to the weights heat maps. Their focus

740
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,760
is out in these distant, concentric rings, very far away

741
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,039
from themselves. It's also why they tend to focus so

742
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:39,519
much on let's say, immigrant communities. Why are they out

743
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:42,840
here putting their lives on the line for people that

744
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:47,360
they don't really have anything in common with. And that's

745
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,119
because of identity fusion, which has also been found to

746
00:43:51,159 --> 00:43:56,079
be let me see fusion significant among people who lean left.

747
00:43:56,119 --> 00:44:01,239
That's see Counstead All twenty eighteen had a sample of

748
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,039
white American university students who reported feeling strongly fused with

749
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:08,000
Palestinians and Kurds, and when they who also identified as

750
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:11,800
left wing activists, and when they strongly identified with Palestinians

751
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,000
and Kurds and not with domestic leftist issues and domestic

752
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:19,480
leftist groups. They said they were more likely to go

753
00:44:19,559 --> 00:44:24,280
out and fight and die and kill on behalf of

754
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,000
Palestinians and Kurds than they would for to fight and

755
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:34,119
die for domestic issues. The hypothesis why is well. The

756
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,559
hypothesis as to why is confusing. I think it's because

757
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,960
when you don't have personal experience with these groups, you

758
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,320
don't have any necessarily negative information about them. You can

759
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,960
make up in your head and fantasize about them being

760
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,599
just perfect victims, in the same way that you'll find

761
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:00,840
a lot of times when some and like Rene good

762
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,599
is It dies in one of these confrontations, they don't

763
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:06,480
want to look at any kind of negative information about

764
00:45:06,519 --> 00:45:10,639
that person. Knowing as little as possible about someone allows

765
00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:13,639
you to construct a version of that person or people

766
00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:18,679
in your head that is very positive. Familiarity breeds contempt,

767
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:23,000
so they fuse themselves without groups they have no personal

768
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:28,239
relationship or ties to, and then they because they have

769
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,159
no personal relationship or ties, they can make them into

770
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:39,079
psychologically like these perfect moral beings comparatively to people that want.

771
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,679
Speaker 3: Oh exactly. I think that that's a huge, a huge

772
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:45,199
part of it.

773
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:45,639
Speaker 6: Right.

774
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 3: You see the same thing with like nature, right that

775
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,599
you know, nature is this sort of like deistic force

776
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,559
for many environmentalists that is completely disconnected from people who

777
00:45:56,599 --> 00:46:01,039
actually go outside. Now obviously, you know, they're many environmentalists

778
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:03,199
that I think do good work. But I had a

779
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,119
very interesting interaction actually with my neighbor I write for

780
00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:11,280
a conservation magazine or I have who knows if it'll

781
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,000
come out or not, with my buddy Braxton. And you know,

782
00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:19,400
being a white guy from southwest Virginia, I've worked on

783
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,679
farms before, I've gone outside before, and you know, I

784
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,440
enjoy hunting and fishing, and so I have a you know,

785
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,199
a pretty realistic view of nature, right, like even the

786
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,840
US East Coast, which is not that dangerous one hundred

787
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,119
percent it is. And you compare that to you know,

788
00:46:35,159 --> 00:46:38,559
my neighbor, who's a very nice lady but a stereotypical hippie,

789
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,480
got into a conversation about conservation and realized very quickly

790
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,360
we have radically different understandings of what nature means, right,

791
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:49,039
Because again, this is someone who grew up in an

792
00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:52,480
urban area and for them, nature is the park, right,

793
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:57,039
It is a bald Garden literally instead of you know,

794
00:46:57,159 --> 00:46:59,880
this thing that has positive and negative aspects.

795
00:46:59,519 --> 00:47:02,280
Speaker 4: To still geographic documentary one.

796
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 3: Hundred percent is Ken Burns or David Attenborough. And yeah,

797
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,440
I think that's definitely a part of it. I'm honestly

798
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:13,039
astounded that chaw Jescu features so much in their kind

799
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:15,480
of hatred. I do get coaching on it, right, like

800
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:18,239
that would make sense to me. Yeah, bizarre people, I

801
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:18,880
don't understand.

802
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,119
Speaker 4: It was one of the most slightest, one of the

803
00:47:21,159 --> 00:47:25,719
most discussed topics across the five tanky subreddits that they sampled.

804
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 6: There.

805
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 4: We were just obsessed with them for some reason, or

806
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,519
maybe at that point in time when they conducted that,

807
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:32,480
it may have just been that at that moment they

808
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:33,800
were particularly obsessed.

809
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 3: It's romanium month they I guess.

810
00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, but very distant things from because again, yeah, if

811
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,159
it's close to you, you might have a little bit

812
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:48,360
more personal information. You can't create an idealized version of

813
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,639
it if you have too much knowledge of it. So

814
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,480
immigrants are a great h if you're a citizen, or

815
00:47:55,519 --> 00:47:59,360
a great sort of source of place to place all

816
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,159
of this and the quote unquote because you don't really

817
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:05,320
know them. If you're not an immigrant, you can just

818
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,360
make up in your head, well, all immigrants must be

819
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,960
x y sad. They're all just struggling for a better life.

820
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,440
They're just you know, they're here with the best intentions.

821
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:16,760
They would never do any crimes or anything, because they're

822
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,280
just honest, hard working people. That's really easy to do,

823
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,360
in particular, if you're a awful for example, you know,

824
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:28,599
affluent white liberal female, right, you don't actually interact with

825
00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:31,039
these people on a daily basis almost at all, if

826
00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:35,679
at all. They exist out in the periphery, so it's

827
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,000
very easy to assign positive traits to them.

828
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:44,079
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, you see sort of the and I was

829
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:47,440
speaking with my wife about this because of the kind

830
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:54,800
of inverse relationship that upper class progressives have to poor

831
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,440
urban blacks and yeah, let's be honest, not even poor,

832
00:48:58,599 --> 00:49:04,440
just lower old class and down whites. Yes, right, where

833
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:06,679
you know one of these groups you can probably guess

834
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,559
which has this sort of halo effect around right there,

835
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,079
they're seen as inherently virtuous. They're scene as you know,

836
00:49:12,159 --> 00:49:16,760
inherently oppressed, whereas you know, their uncle Randy right, who

837
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,840
owns a dishwasher repair business, is inherently suspect. We don't like.

838
00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:24,039
We think he's gross, we think he's low class. And

839
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,920
it's interesting. And I'm sure you remember this during the

840
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,719
the kind of Bush era right where there is this

841
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:38,119
sort of like oh, kind of open season on rednecks, right, yes,

842
00:49:38,119 --> 00:49:40,719
and this sort of like competitive virtue signaling about how

843
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,000
awful and racist your family or your X y Z

844
00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:47,840
distant relation was. Again because it was it was distant.

845
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,039
It was sort of, you know, a way to you know,

846
00:49:50,119 --> 00:49:55,039
externalize again born from, let's be honest, very limited or

847
00:49:55,199 --> 00:49:58,639
no real contact. And the positive side of that is

848
00:49:58,679 --> 00:50:02,000
what you see in you know, diverse urban communities.

849
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 5: Whatever you're working towards, a Volkswagen commercial vehicle is with

850
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,920
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851
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852
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853
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854
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855
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857
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858
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859
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860
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861
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:48,039
Speaker 3: Where it's like those are sort of overly romanticized. And again,

862
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:50,000
as someone who has grown up in the South and

863
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:57,079
has familiarity with both of those groups, neither reading is true. Like, now,

864
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,400
let's be honest, like, there are very real problems with

865
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,079
white trash, and I don't particularly enjoy dealing with like,

866
00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:06,920
you know, shitty methoads in the parking lot of a Walmart. No, also,

867
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,360
you know, agrats, Like, neither one of these things are

868
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,320
the kind of you know, the meticize that's not a word,

869
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,360
the sort of like romanticized version of it. But it

870
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,519
is interesting how there's both a positive and a negative

871
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:23,679
aspect to that kind of social distance. But sorry, I'll

872
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:24,280
kick it back to you.

873
00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:28,039
Speaker 4: Oh no, sorry, had a weird connection issue there for

874
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:32,000
a second. It's back. It's good now. Yeah, very similar

875
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:34,280
growing up. I grew up until I was eleven in

876
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,760
rural West Virginia and then moved to Baltimore City, so

877
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,920
I've seen both sides of that. I've seen the white

878
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,639
you know, I grew up around the white trash meth

879
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:46,280
heads so cold, and then I grew up around the ghetto.

880
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,679
I mean, it's Baltimore. It's about as bad as it gets,

881
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,280
murder capital of the US. So but again for the

882
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,840
people who are the affluent white liberal females or female liberals,

883
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,159
the awfuls and people in that same sort of category,

884
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,880
they go to Christmas and Thanksgiving dinner with Uncle Randy,

885
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,519
with racist Uncle Randy, so they've got a little flash

886
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:09,280
point of interaction with him that they can model who

887
00:52:09,519 --> 00:52:11,880
Uncle Randy and other people like him are off of.

888
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,760
And in fact, I just did a video on Christmas

889
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,519
for the Christmas season and the political divides that that causes,

890
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,559
and that in particular is it seems like in the

891
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:25,719
data where they follow people's cell phones so they could

892
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,599
see how long they actually spent it at different locations

893
00:52:29,639 --> 00:52:34,079
for Thanksgiving dinner and then pull them about it as well.

894
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:37,400
And it turned out that the leftists ended up staying

895
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:42,079
at those dinners for longer, but they reported it. They

896
00:52:42,119 --> 00:52:44,039
were more not they to report it as being a negative,

897
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,280
hostile experience. So the conservatives wanted to leave, they wanted

898
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:51,159
to disengage, They didn't want to be involved in the

899
00:52:51,159 --> 00:52:54,800
hostility and the arguments. The liberals wanted to stay and fight.

900
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,679
So it seems oftentimes too, is that they have to

901
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,239
maybe even do this virtue signaling, this performative stuff in

902
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,559
front of racist uncle Randy. They want to be confrontational

903
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,440
because again, even if there's no audience, particularly in the

904
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,440
age of social media, then they can go home and

905
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,400
type on social media and write an article about how

906
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,000
they defeated racist uncle Randy and then turn that performance

907
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,920
that they've done at the dinner table into a broader

908
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,079
performance for the public. But at least they can model

909
00:53:24,159 --> 00:53:26,360
him because they kind of know him. They probably don't

910
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,920
have almost any interaction with inner city blacks in Baltimore City,

911
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:30,480
for example.

912
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and I mean again, right, that is very

913
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,880
much we see a gap between actual empathy and a

914
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,480
desire to be perceived as empathetic. I realize this is

915
00:53:44,519 --> 00:53:47,280
not at all scientific claim, but it's generally poor formed

916
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,679
to harass your family members at Thanksgiving. Yeah, that's not done.

917
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,639
But again, right, there is that kind of secondary social

918
00:53:55,679 --> 00:54:00,119
market of being able to market on social media and

919
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:02,800
put yourself out as the kind of person who not

920
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:08,360
only has far left politics but is speaking truth to power, right,

921
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,280
and if that power is a seventy year old, aging

922
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,320
Vietnam veteran, indeterminate right. But again that's that element of

923
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:16,960
social signal.

924
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, and it probably is to signal to the

925
00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:24,159
family members as well, to separate yourself to a certain extent.

926
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,559
Because one of the weird things about some of the

927
00:54:26,559 --> 00:54:29,719
polling on that one in particular is that when they've

928
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:31,920
been surveyed on it, people on the left and right

929
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,800
both agree that going to things like family gatherings and

930
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,119
dinners are important and that it's good for emotional health.

931
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:39,920
But then when they actually go and do it, it

932
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,119
turns out it's used tactically for this performance of activism.

933
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,360
And whether that again, I don't think social media helps it.

934
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,400
There was a Victorio on Twitter A couple we have

935
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,119
been talking about this recently about how social media has

936
00:54:56,039 --> 00:55:00,719
and the divide between women and men in political belief

937
00:55:01,079 --> 00:55:06,360
has exploded since cell phones and social media became readily available,

938
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,960
or smartphones in particular. It didn't happen in two thousand,

939
00:55:11,199 --> 00:55:14,239
It happened in like twenty ten or didn't happen in

940
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,599
nineteen ninety. It happened in two thousand and five, right

941
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:24,639
after social media and smartphones started to become ubiquitous. Because

942
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:29,639
now there's a perpetual audience, the performative nature of your empathy,

943
00:55:29,679 --> 00:55:33,039
the performative nature of your activism is always in your pocket.

944
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,960
Before you could only do it at a street protest

945
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:39,039
or something, but now you can do it constantly, So

946
00:55:39,079 --> 00:55:44,039
it reinforces the narcissistic behaviors and rewards them.

947
00:55:45,039 --> 00:55:48,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that you know much. It's helpful

948
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:53,000
to view this through the kind of lens of selection

949
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:58,960
that when you ascribe, whether deliberately or not, social status

950
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:04,039
to certain behaviors, certain activities, you create a selection bias. Right,

951
00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:08,360
you were filtering for certain people over others. Obviously vastly

952
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,360
different discussion, but we've seen this in hiring data. Right,

953
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,679
people of certain skin tones are not being hired. That

954
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:20,079
produces a massive downstream result. My home state of Virginia

955
00:56:20,119 --> 00:56:24,880
has just decided that they will overpay non contractors. Yeah,

956
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,400
who knows, I may end up as a West Virginia

957
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,239
refugee sooner or later. But in all seriousness, right, again,

958
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,039
you're creating a selection pressure, and somewhat similarly, when you

959
00:56:33,079 --> 00:56:37,559
know there is effectively rewards to be given for this

960
00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:41,039
sort of anti social behavior, you're going to see more

961
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:44,599
of it now. One of the interesting things that I

962
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:49,119
am constantly wondering about is when we get from the

963
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:53,079
level of social selection to genetic selection, right, you know,

964
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,679
just kind of going through the biological bottleneck. It seems

965
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,920
that these would be negatively associated with production. That the

966
00:57:01,079 --> 00:57:03,840
kind of mentally unwell people doing this, you know, narcissist

967
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,559
peace but think so interested in their image, do not reproduce.

968
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:11,920
Is that true? Am I completely wrong? And does it

969
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:12,519
even matter?

970
00:57:13,079 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 4: You would think so? However, tactical empathy, performative empathy is

971
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,840
actually selected for evolutionarily. This has been observed. It's interesting

972
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,000
you brought this up because I actually have the evolutionary

973
00:57:25,559 --> 00:57:29,800
rationale here. So specifically in chimps. This is a nineteen

974
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:35,800
ninety two paper from Burn and Witten W. H. I. T. E. N.

975
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,039
They found that chimps, what they'll do is male chimps

976
00:57:41,079 --> 00:57:44,800
in particular, when there's high status males powerful males around

977
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,440
the lower status males will pretend to be innocent. They'll

978
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:54,239
pretend to just be interacting in a subservient or submissive

979
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,599
way comparatively to the male. But they will get erections

980
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,599
and hide their erections with their hands so that it

981
00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:05,679
is visible to the fertile females and invisible or obfuscated

982
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:09,599
from the male. If chimps are able to do that,

983
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,360
then we have a pretty good rationale that this evolved

984
00:58:12,679 --> 00:58:16,559
a long time ago as a strategy to make yourself

985
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:21,320
look good to do facework, as Irving Goffman would call it,

986
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:28,800
towards a selective party. So yeah, it actually seems that

987
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,440
there is now empathy. Genuine empathy obviously has evolutionary pressures

988
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,639
behind it, because it's a way to be able to

989
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:38,000
signal to other members of your group something is wrong,

990
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:41,280
there is danger. Being able to read faces, being able

991
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,079
to take perspectives allows you to feel with other members

992
00:58:45,079 --> 00:58:47,719
of your tribe. So if a member of your tribe

993
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,039
is killed, you feel with their family and will want

994
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:55,679
to protect them, and this is advantageous to the survival

995
00:58:55,719 --> 00:58:58,159
of the group, just as it is advantageous to be

996
00:58:58,239 --> 00:59:01,119
able to read emotions to detect if another member of

997
00:59:01,159 --> 00:59:04,480
the tribe is afraid. But then we also see, well,

998
00:59:04,639 --> 00:59:07,960
this empathy evolves for that reason, you also get the

999
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:11,519
tactical layer. In order for the chimps to be able

1000
00:59:11,559 --> 00:59:14,360
to why why would a chimp do that? The only

1001
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,079
reason to hide the erection. It has to be able

1002
00:59:17,119 --> 00:59:19,840
to simulate the minds of other chimps to know what

1003
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,039
they can see and what they can't see, to know

1004
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:26,920
that the males, the dominant males, can't see the erection

1005
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:29,559
because it's been hidden with their hand, but that the

1006
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:33,519
females can see it. So this very basic perspective, taking

1007
00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:38,679
that it's at the core of empathetic response evolutionarily is

1008
00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:44,159
also selected for to be tactical in certain circumstances.

1009
00:59:46,199 --> 00:59:50,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's that's particularly interesting. And you know,

1010
00:59:50,159 --> 00:59:54,719
not to pull this down into you know, so called

1011
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,800
dating discourse, which is really like the lowest common denominator

1012
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,000
on the Internet. I tried to avoid if at all possible,

1013
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,000
But you do see this, right that, like the the

1014
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:09,400
meme of uh, you know, the the male feminist as

1015
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,440
a predatory. Yeah, that is tactically assumed to sort of

1016
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,599
gain access to certain spaces US. Some would say, I

1017
01:00:17,639 --> 01:00:21,119
mean like that that bears out right anecdotally. You and

1018
01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:24,039
I both probably know half a dozen examples so, yeah,

1019
01:00:24,039 --> 01:00:27,079
I mean, that's that's a very interesting thing that you

1020
01:00:27,159 --> 01:00:30,440
bring up there, And honestly, it's part of the reason

1021
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:35,719
why generally speaking, it's it's things like you know, academia

1022
01:00:35,719 --> 01:00:38,480
are kind of a tough nut to crack because those

1023
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:43,559
accreditation and prestige networks are so ideologically captured and when

1024
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:46,239
they have that kind of you know, ability to designate

1025
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,960
what is and isn't prestigious, there isn't isn't socially advantageous

1026
01:00:50,239 --> 01:00:51,840
you know, to people who are looking to sort of,

1027
01:00:52,039 --> 01:00:54,079
you know, climb up the social ladder, it's like, well, right,

1028
01:00:55,079 --> 01:00:55,880
what do you do then?

1029
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:56,079
Speaker 6: Right?

1030
01:00:56,159 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 3: Because that and I'm obviously I'm not asking you to

1031
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:00,840
solve this problem in the remaining two minutes of this podcast,

1032
01:01:01,239 --> 01:01:04,320
but it does become a very difficult issue, right because

1033
01:01:04,719 --> 01:01:07,159
there are a number of people, some of them pathological,

1034
01:01:07,199 --> 01:01:10,800
some of them human, who are extremely susceptible to those

1035
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:11,960
sort of social cues.

1036
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it is with the way that it's set up,

1037
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:22,119
it actually creates a fertile breeding ground for dark personalities

1038
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,800
machiaviliens in particular, and narcissists and psychopaths. Psychopaths are kind

1039
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:31,000
of the worst at it, but sadists are not curiously,

1040
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,920
but machiavellians, narcissists and sadus are able to recognize also

1041
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,239
that when their internal emotions don't match what they're supposed

1042
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,440
to feel, so they recognize that they are feeling incorrectly.

1043
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:46,920
They will observe the way other people are expressing emotions

1044
01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:49,920
and they will mimic them. This is mirror neuron response.

1045
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,400
It's also been observed in macaque monkeys, and it's again

1046
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,360
millions of years old. When you know, when somebody waves

1047
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,719
that you, someone's waving in a crowd, maybe they're waving

1048
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:03,079
at you, so you wave back, that's a mirror neuron response.

1049
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:08,239
It happens autonomically, and people who have these dark personality traits,

1050
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,320
they recognize that they can maneuver their way into these

1051
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:20,519
different situations, environments, groups and engaging them tactically by observing

1052
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:23,760
others and emotions and mirroring them using this evolved mirror

1053
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,960
neuron response. And it's unfortunately the institutions have to be

1054
01:02:28,039 --> 01:02:31,000
changed because otherwise, again it selects for people who can

1055
01:02:31,039 --> 01:02:32,440
manipulate the best.

1056
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 3: Now that's a valid point, so Aidan, we are coming

1057
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:40,400
up on time. This has been a fascinating discussion. I'll

1058
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,280
make sure to link to your work on YouTube, but

1059
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:46,840
where can people find you and what are you working on?

1060
01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:51,079
Speaker 4: Yeap Aidan Paladin on YouTube. I'm about to start putting

1061
01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:53,679
out some shorts on this tactical empathy stuff. I've been

1062
01:02:53,719 --> 01:02:56,119
working on it for the last week and a half

1063
01:02:56,199 --> 01:02:59,679
or so since there were in a good thing happened

1064
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,079
just because I was interested in it, and then I

1065
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:05,400
did know also that Gad Sad was about to publish

1066
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,480
his book on suicidal empathy, and it seems like it's

1067
01:03:08,599 --> 01:03:10,559
really hot topic right now that a lot of people

1068
01:03:10,679 --> 01:03:14,920
are curious about. I am also looking launching a substack

1069
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,559
that will probably be before the video comes out, but

1070
01:03:17,679 --> 01:03:19,960
not before the YouTube shorts. So if you're interested in

1071
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,400
kind of getting the TLDR on all of the major

1072
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:25,119
subjects I'm going to cover in the video, those will

1073
01:03:25,119 --> 01:03:26,719
come out to shorts first, or some of it will

1074
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:30,159
come out of shorts first. Then I'll put out something

1075
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:33,400
on substack, the full audio version of it and the

1076
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,320
actual article if you want to read that, and then

1077
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,360
if you just want to watch the completed documentary video

1078
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:39,639
that'll be out a couple weeks after that.

1079
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 3: Well, sure. I am looking forward to both of those

1080
01:03:43,599 --> 01:03:46,639
as far as my stuff, The Jay Burdon Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

1081
01:03:46,639 --> 01:03:48,880
anywhere you want to listen to podcasts. If you want

1082
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:50,519
to support me, you can throw me a few bucks

1083
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:55,480
on Patreon, Substack or gum Road. Look, I know the

1084
01:03:55,519 --> 01:03:58,000
ads on the free version are irritating, but I got

1085
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,239
a mortgage to pay, and thanks to one Abigail Spenberger,

1086
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,559
I've got a whole lot more taxes to pay, which

1087
01:04:03,599 --> 01:04:05,920
is fun. So I you throw me a few bucks,

1088
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,599
get the episodes early and ad free. Check out our sponsor,

1089
01:04:08,719 --> 01:04:11,519
Axios Remote Fitness Coaching again, Aiden, this was a ton

1090
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:11,840
of fun.

1091
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:14,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me always always a good time.

1092
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:17,159
Speaker 3: To everyone at home, keep your head up. Well, I

1093
01:04:17,199 --> 01:04:17,960
can't last forever.

1094
01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 6: Good night.

1095
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 3: Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.

1096
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:54,559
Speaker 6: It doesn't have to be.

1097
01:04:54,679 --> 01:04:57,039
Speaker 3: Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast

1098
01:04:57,159 --> 01:04:59,119
right now and it's great. You love the host, You

1099
01:04:59,159 --> 01:05:00,679
seek it out and down load it. You listen to

1100
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,840
it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom.

1101
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,559
Podcasts are a pretty close companion.

1102
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 1: And this is a podcast ad.

1103
01:05:08,679 --> 01:05:09,599
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1104
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