WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Get value. You can't argue with at Tesco with their

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<v Speaker 1>amazing club card prices. Serve up something special with our

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<v Speaker 1>finest meal deal for two starring one main, two sides

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<v Speaker 1>be approved IRUs shined a strip loin Steaks with peppercorn butter,

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<v Speaker 1>or delicious Iris Chicken Parmegama served with creamy potato gritam

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<v Speaker 1>and our mix of rainbow root vegetables. And enjoy Goozillionaire

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<v Speaker 1>or Solder Caramel cheesecake. Can't argue with that shop in

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<v Speaker 1>store or online Tesco. Every little helps available to the

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<v Speaker 1>most doores. Prices very inn express.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's your neighbor's cat who hangs out by

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<v Speaker 2>the mailboxes and who should definitely be inside. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>also very convincing when she asked for belly rubs. Ali

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<v Speaker 2>ward back with the most exciting episode of Ologi's ever made.

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<v Speaker 2>If you ask my subconscious brain and my thirsty heart,

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<v Speaker 2>which you didn't, and I don't care, but this episode

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<v Speaker 2>is about procrastination. It's not possible for me to be

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<v Speaker 2>more ready for it. But before we dive in, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to take a minute to let you know there

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<v Speaker 2>are some live things happening soon. Thursday March I'll be

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<v Speaker 2>at the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>be leading their Women in Science panel, and then the

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<v Speaker 2>next night, March six, I'll be back in LA for

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<v Speaker 2>the Natural History Museum's first Friday Series. I'll be leading

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<v Speaker 2>two chats called Secrets from the Vaults. And then I'll

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<v Speaker 2>be at south By Southwest EEDU in Austin giving a

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<v Speaker 2>talk on March eleventh. So if you want tickets for

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<v Speaker 2>those links are in the show notes, come say hi. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you to everyone on Patreon who supports the show

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<v Speaker 2>and sends in their questions. Thanks to everyone wearing gear

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<v Speaker 2>from Ologiesmarch dot com their T shirts and sweatshirts and

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<v Speaker 2>hats and socks. And thank you to everyone who has

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<v Speaker 2>ever hit the five stars in iTunes or subscribed on

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<v Speaker 2>all the platforms, and of course who leaves reviews for

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<v Speaker 2>me to just cradle in my palmps like baby bird,

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<v Speaker 2>and each week I read you a newly hatched one,

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<v Speaker 2>such as Casey Mullens thirteen says, absolutely love it. The

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<v Speaker 2>journalist to me loves the little asides where you explained

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<v Speaker 2>slash fact check something and everything else in me loves

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<v Speaker 2>everything else just lovely. Well, I thank your love, Casey mull,

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<v Speaker 2>and so deal with that. Okay, forcrastnology to get into it. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>procrastnology not a real word in the academic sense, bummer,

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<v Speaker 2>But procrastination has such a beautiful backstory. So pro means

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<v Speaker 2>forward and crastiness means till next day. So to procrastinate

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<v Speaker 2>in Latin means to forward things until tomorrow. Ugh, it's

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<v Speaker 2>like doing a chef's kiss while you're getting gut punched. Gorgeous.

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<v Speaker 2>So volitional psychology comes from volition, which means intentional behavior,

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<v Speaker 2>and that comes from the Latin meaning to wish. So

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<v Speaker 2>this was a topic I could not explore soon enough.

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<v Speaker 2>As a people pleasing human with a brain full of bees,

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<v Speaker 2>I have the dirty secret of being a chronic procrastinator.

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<v Speaker 2>Like the higher the stakes on something, the more terrified

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<v Speaker 2>I am of starting it. If there are official government forms,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't even look at them. I can't look at

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<v Speaker 2>them until the day they're doing like big writing projects.

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<v Speaker 2>I would rather clean a litter box belonging to an

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<v Speaker 2>elderly tiger. Once while procrastinating. I googled procrastination, and then

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<v Speaker 2>I found out about a conference in Chicago run by

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<v Speaker 2>the topic's most prominent research psychologist and a professor of

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<v Speaker 2>general and community psychology at Chicago's De Paul University. This

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<v Speaker 2>ologist got his bachelor's in psychology, two masters in experimental

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<v Speaker 2>and general psychology, a PhD in psychology. His list of

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<v Speaker 2>published papers on the topic of procrastination is exhaustive. It

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<v Speaker 2>is exhausting to fathom. This is the dude when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes to the science of procrastination. So I reached out.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, yes, he would be interviewed, but if I

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<v Speaker 2>made light of the suffering felt by chronic procrastinators, he

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<v Speaker 2>would pull an atom driver on fresh air and he

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<v Speaker 2>would walk right at a studio. And I assured him

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<v Speaker 2>I had the utmost com passion and also the ulterior

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<v Speaker 2>motive of wanting to fix my own life. And he said, oh, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>great then, and so we met up in a community

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<v Speaker 2>radio station in a Chicago suburb. Shout out to Elise

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<v Speaker 2>of ice Cream Media in Lyle. He was neatly dressed

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<v Speaker 2>in a cashmere sweater and has a distinguished mustache, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like you would expect to find on a fire chief.

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<v Speaker 3>Now time was ticking.

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<v Speaker 2>We spoke as fast as we could and answered as

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<v Speaker 2>many questions as we could possibly fit into this window.

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<v Speaker 2>I had bought his book So Procrastinating, The No Regrets

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<v Speaker 2>Guide to Getting It Done, which explains that everyone procrastinates,

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<v Speaker 2>but not everyone is a procrastinator.

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<v Speaker 3>So who does what?

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<v Speaker 2>And I prepared a list of questions that was mostly

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<v Speaker 2>just an airplane napkin scrawled with the words why and housetop?

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<v Speaker 2>So we address both. So let's get this episode in

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<v Speaker 2>your brains, because no matter what your relationship to procrastination,

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<v Speaker 2>this episode will change the way you look at yourself

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<v Speaker 2>and your to do list. So, without further ado, absorb

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<v Speaker 2>the wit and the wisdom of author, scientist, psychologist, and

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<v Speaker 2>procrastination research legend volitional psychologist, the doctor Joseph R. Ferrari.

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<v Speaker 4>Ferrari is f E r r r I like the car.

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<v Speaker 2>We must you must have said that so many times

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<v Speaker 2>in your life.

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<v Speaker 4>Many times. But you know what means smith? Does it

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<v Speaker 4>really means to blacksmith? The iron maker? Pharaoh's is Latin

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<v Speaker 4>from oh there you go, I'm sorry, So Ferrari Ferra,

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<v Speaker 4>Ferra means smith. It's like Smith's might. It's nothing exotic.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So you know Ferrari's rearing horse logo. I always

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<v Speaker 2>thought that meant look how fast our cars go, like

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<v Speaker 2>a really fast horse. But the and I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe it's like a farrier, like a blacksmith that does horseshoes.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just looked it up and Enzo Ferrari just

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<v Speaker 2>borrowed the image of the prancing horse from a World

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<v Speaker 2>War Two fighter pilot's plane for good luck. Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>let's get back to procrastination. I'm so sorry. So who procrastinates?

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<v Speaker 2>What's the deal?

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<v Speaker 4>So they will not listen to anything that I say

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<v Speaker 4>as tool? How to treat it? Yes, because there's always

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<v Speaker 4>your reason. These aren't stupid people, they're very smart.

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<v Speaker 3>So Doc, you can move us away. Yeah you can

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<v Speaker 3>be that.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean know when we're ready the starter you've started already?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, we're already recording, Doctor Joseph Ferrari.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, you're a psychologist, I am. Is there a particular

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<v Speaker 2>field of psychology that deals with procrastinations?

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<v Speaker 4>I am trained as a social personality psychologist. That means

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<v Speaker 4>a research psychologist. There are also clinical psychologists and counseling

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<v Speaker 4>psychologists that have dealt with this topic of procrastination. But

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<v Speaker 4>we're getting a little ahead if I may. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>because everybody procrastinates, but not everyone's a procrastinator.

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<v Speaker 3>I was going to ask if you have that tattooed

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<v Speaker 3>anywhere on your line.

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<v Speaker 4>No, that's my quote, and people have stolen and is

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<v Speaker 4>that right? What does that mean? How can you be

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<v Speaker 4>because what the data shows is that twenty percent of

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<v Speaker 4>adult men and women are chronic procrastinators. What does that mean?

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<v Speaker 4>They do it at home, they do it at schools,

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<v Speaker 4>they do it work relationships. You know, they're going to

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<v Speaker 4>show up late for events. They're not going to RSVP

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<v Speaker 4>on time. They're never going to get that concert ticket

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<v Speaker 4>because they never went were sporting tickets because they never

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<v Speaker 4>went around to get the purchase the ticket. They missed

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<v Speaker 4>doctor's appointments, They wait till the gauge goes on E

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<v Speaker 4>before they get more gas, They wait for the third bill.

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<v Speaker 4>Twenty percent. Now you might say that's all I know

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<v Speaker 4>people that are higher. But that's higher than depression, higher

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<v Speaker 4>than phobia, higher than alcoholism, higher than panic attacks, than

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<v Speaker 4>substance abuse. And yet this is considered a funny topic.

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<v Speaker 4>Yet this is considered procrastination is considered a non serious disorder.

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<v Speaker 4>Have had people get angry at me when they say, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>you know during I think May is mental health month,

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<v Speaker 4>and I say yes, and make sure we've put in procrastination. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>you're trivializing our other illnesses. No, this is more common

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<v Speaker 4>than many of those other issues, and yet people consider

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<v Speaker 4>this a frivolous topic. Twenty percent of adult.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, now we're getting right into it. So doctor Ferrari says,

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<v Speaker 2>according to his studies, and there are many that figured

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<v Speaker 2>tracks across all genders and nations, twenty percent of folks

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<v Speaker 2>are chronic procrastinators. And if you're listening to this, you

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<v Speaker 2>either are one you know one. Maybe someone sent you

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<v Speaker 2>a link to this episode because working up to the

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<v Speaker 2>last minute isn't cute anymore. Now, college students, seventy to

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<v Speaker 2>seventy five percent of you procrastinate on assignments, but you

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<v Speaker 2>do it less as you get older, which brings us

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<v Speaker 2>back to doctor Ferrari's motto.

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<v Speaker 4>Everybody procrastinates, but not everyone's a procrastinator. So everybody might

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<v Speaker 4>put off for a task. The college student might delay reading, studying,

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<v Speaker 4>registering for a class seeing the mentor. But if Izzo

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<v Speaker 4>is that Lizzo Liz, If Lizzo gives a free concert

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<v Speaker 4>to the first fifty people, they're there. If there's a

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<v Speaker 4>kega beer for free in the dorm they're there, well,

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<v Speaker 4>then then not procrastinators. They procrastinate, but they're not procrastinators.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's very important to the listeners, to people that

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<v Speaker 4>do the research that know that there's a difference between

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<v Speaker 4>academic procrastination and global everyday procrastination or what I call

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<v Speaker 4>chronic procrastination. There are two different animals. Every two years

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<v Speaker 4>as an International meeting on the Study of procrastination. It

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<v Speaker 4>was just held this past summer in Sheffield, England. In

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<v Speaker 4>twenty twenty seventeen, I hosted it here in Chicago. That

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<v Speaker 4>was the tenth biennial, So for twenty years, over twenty years,

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<v Speaker 4>scholars have been getting together. What's interesting is that I'm

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<v Speaker 4>pretty much the only US person. A lot in Canada,

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<v Speaker 4>a lot in Europe. Now, it's growing in Asia in

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<v Speaker 4>other areas, but in the US this topic is not

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<v Speaker 4>considered a serious scientific topic. Why, I don't know. And

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<v Speaker 4>every time we do these meetings we seem to go

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<v Speaker 4>back because there's always new people coming to these meetings.

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<v Speaker 4>To the notion of what's the difference between pondering and

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<v Speaker 4>waiting and delay and dwelling and postponing and procrastination, pausing

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<v Speaker 4>waiting being dontal I can't say the way doddling, that's

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<v Speaker 4>the word pausing waiting. I want you to cut that out.

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<v Speaker 2>He was kidding. I would not do him dirty like

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<v Speaker 2>that anyway.

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<v Speaker 4>Pausing waiting are all forms of delaying, but they're not

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<v Speaker 4>the same as procrastinating. The continuum goes worse. The question

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<v Speaker 4>is what's the tipping point. We don't know, but we

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<v Speaker 4>should not consider delaying itself is the same. It's not

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<v Speaker 4>that these people are lazy. Chronic procrastinators are very hard working.

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<v Speaker 4>That's something else. That's something they shouldn't be doing, all right.

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<v Speaker 4>They're postponing what they're doing supposed to do for something else,

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<v Speaker 4>and they've got good reasons. They'll tell you this and that. No, no, no,

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<v Speaker 4>they're very smart to keep coming up with plausible, believable reasons,

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<v Speaker 4>and so you listen to them and you go, oh, oh, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>that's why you can't do it now, And then next time, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>that's why oh, it's never taking ownership.

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<v Speaker 2>And as someone who struggles with this, I can say

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<v Speaker 2>each of these excuses feels very real to the procrastinator.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not that we're lying to you, it's just

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<v Speaker 2>that we're lying to ourselves.

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<v Speaker 4>Perhaps.

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<v Speaker 2>And doctor Ferre says that there's a tipping point between

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<v Speaker 2>pondering and delaying and true chronic procrastination. That tipping point

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<v Speaker 2>I find is usually my face tipping into a keyboard

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<v Speaker 2>at four am the night before something is due.

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<v Speaker 4>Pondering is a more cognitive variable or something about thinking.

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<v Speaker 4>And so indecision, being indecisive is what we call in

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<v Speaker 4>the field decisional procrastination. So I break them out of

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<v Speaker 4>sort of. And again there's a difference. What do you

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<v Speaker 4>do if you have a person who's indecisive, Well, first

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<v Speaker 4>thing they do, and I know you want to talk

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<v Speaker 4>about treatment leader is you don't take them a place

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<v Speaker 4>to a place where they have lots of options.

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<v Speaker 3>He has a nightmare.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, out here in the western suburbs of Chicago, there's

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<v Speaker 4>a movie theater in Aurora that has thirty one movies.

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<v Speaker 4>You don't take the indecisive to thirty one movies? Why?

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<v Speaker 4>Because you stand there and you say, so what do

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<v Speaker 4>you want to see? And what will they say?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, what do you want to say?

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<v Speaker 4>Well? I know, but what do you want to What

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<v Speaker 4>do they say?

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<v Speaker 2>Whatever?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, and you look at your watch at seven o'clock

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<v Speaker 4>and they're all starting at seven fifteen. We really got

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<v Speaker 4>to decide what do you want to see? What do

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<v Speaker 4>they say? They have you pick and then they don't

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<v Speaker 4>want brilliant Yeah, people, So they make you choose, you see,

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<v Speaker 4>And so it's never their fault.

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<v Speaker 2>Am I going to no, no, no, I'm just making

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<v Speaker 2>sure we're recording this because it's my favorite episodever.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, yeah, it's absolutely So if I never choose, it's

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<v Speaker 4>never my fault. You don't want to make a decision,

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<v Speaker 4>that's okay, your choice, you have that right. But then,

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<v Speaker 4>as we say in New York, shut up. Okay, if

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<v Speaker 4>you let me make the choice, you got to live

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<v Speaker 4>with that. You see. So again, going back to the

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<v Speaker 4>movie metaphor, so they see the movie. If the movie

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<v Speaker 4>is good, we leave, We say that was great, I

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<v Speaker 4>was wonderful. I suppose it's a dud, a stinker, a

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<v Speaker 4>horrible movie. What do they say at the end, you

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<v Speaker 4>want to know how to treat it. You don't bring

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<v Speaker 4>the indecisive a place where they have so many options

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<v Speaker 4>because they can't handle it all right. And again they're

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<v Speaker 4>not bad people. It's just that it's difficult.

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<v Speaker 3>It is so hard. What if you do it wrong?

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<v Speaker 4>So life is full of Look when God made us,

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<v Speaker 4>she gave us.

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<v Speaker 3>Knees, she.

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<v Speaker 4>Gave us knees to bend. We're gonna fall. The question

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<v Speaker 4>in life isn't why are you going to fail? The

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<v Speaker 4>question is when will you fail? You see people think

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<v Speaker 4>I don't want to fail. I can't make mistakes. No no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 4>no no, you will make mistakes in life. Life is

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<v Speaker 4>full of failure. The question is those knees get you down,

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<v Speaker 4>but those knees get you up. That's the question. How

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<v Speaker 4>do you get back up like the phoenix? How do

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<v Speaker 4>you rise out of the ashes of the failure? So

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<v Speaker 4>you're going to fail in life? Yes, life is full

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<v Speaker 4>of failure. The questions did you learn? Did you grow?

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<v Speaker 4>Did you move on beyond the failure? And that's what

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<v Speaker 4>people need to understand. Clinical psychologists say eighty percent is great,

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<v Speaker 4>not one hundred percent. People want to be perfect and

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<v Speaker 4>if I'm not perfect. I'm garbage.

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<v Speaker 3>Yet, No, you're.

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<v Speaker 4>Human and no one's there. You're human, and that means

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<v Speaker 4>you're going to make mistakes, all right. So the clinician says,

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<v Speaker 4>if you can reach eighty percent of your goal, eighty

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<v Speaker 4>percent of what is out there, you're a success. Now.

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<v Speaker 4>A recent study found actually supported this that happiness. You're

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<v Speaker 4>most content, you're most healthy with eighty five percent success

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<v Speaker 4>and fifteen percent failure. Really, yes, not this one hundred percent.

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<v Speaker 4>We need failure in life now, but some failure makes

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<v Speaker 4>us most adjusted.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't let beance for you. When it comes to being flawless,

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<v Speaker 2>it's never gonna happen. That's a good thing. Salvador Dali

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<v Speaker 2>once famously said, have no fear of perfection. You'll never

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<v Speaker 2>reach it. So lowering the expectations for yourself is just

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<v Speaker 2>like undoing the top button of your pants at Thanksgiving,

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<v Speaker 2>But for your soul it feels so good and probably

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<v Speaker 2>no one will notice the difference. You're talking about chronic procrastinators, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>which is enough about me.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's talk a little bit about you.

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<v Speaker 2>So now, chronic progression, No, I know, how so how

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<v Speaker 2>did you get into this field?

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<v Speaker 4>I can only really get it's Valentine's Day. So I'll

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<v Speaker 4>give you the reason, not the private reason. Oh okay,

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<v Speaker 4>I know everybody wants to privatey is Ventisia. My wife

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<v Speaker 4>will be angry.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I think I just understood exactly what the problem is.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, but I.

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<v Speaker 4>Didn't outer Okay, Well, sure, I'll give you the history.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's nineteen eighty seven, eighty eight. I'm in

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<v Speaker 4>my doctoral program at Adelphi University in Garden City, Long Island,

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<v Speaker 4>because I know you go national. So yeah, I'm int

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<v Speaker 4>my doctoral program and I'm taking a class and this

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<v Speaker 4>is the eighties before computers, taking a class on self

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<v Speaker 4>defeating behavior. The instructor was a social psychologist retooling to

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<v Speaker 4>become a clinician. So she was very interested in understanding

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<v Speaker 4>choosing to suffer people. There's a religious show that people

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<v Speaker 4>will shock themselves. They think I deserve to be this masochism,

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<v Speaker 4>sado massacim. She wasn't all that stuff. And one of

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<v Speaker 4>the topics was self handicapping. When will people sabot their behavior?

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<v Speaker 4>So we're in this class she's covering small seminar. I

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<v Speaker 4>raise my hand and I say, excuse me, but this

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<v Speaker 4>sounds like it could be procrastination, and she says, well, yeah, sure,

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<v Speaker 4>I said, okay, I raised my hand again. Okay, Well

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<v Speaker 4>what is the research show? She says. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 4>but I'm sure someone's done the study. Again, this is

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<v Speaker 4>the eighties. So what do I do. I open my

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<v Speaker 4>notebook and I write the word procrastination, and after class

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<v Speaker 4>I go to the library because this is what people

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<v Speaker 4>used to do, all right, And I go look it

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<v Speaker 4>up and I find practically nothing on the topic of procrastination.

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<v Speaker 4>Now nothing about two hundred conferences and papers, but a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of us on writer's block, career in decision. But

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<v Speaker 4>from a social personality psychology point of view, I try

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<v Speaker 4>and understand what are the causes, what are the consequences? Nothing.

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<v Speaker 4>So in graduate school we heard a scratchuate students. You

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<v Speaker 4>could either do research, and this is good for your

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<v Speaker 4>listeners to hear, particularly those who may be studying something.

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<v Speaker 4>You could do something that everybody else does, and you'll

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<v Speaker 4>be a body of literature and you follow along the way.

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<v Speaker 4>You can go off into something that no one else

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<v Speaker 4>has done, and then you carve the path and your

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<v Speaker 4>name becomes synonymous.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I'm a little and here, doctor Ferrari mouth's the

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<v Speaker 2>word public.

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<v Speaker 4>And I like that idea. So in the beginning, everything

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<v Speaker 4>I published I wrote on procrastination was publishable, so much

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<v Speaker 4>so that I remember one journal they came back and

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<v Speaker 4>said that, well accepted, but you have to change the

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<v Speaker 4>introduction where you talk about the literature because you just

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<v Speaker 4>keep citing Ferrari A. Well, that's because I'm the only person.

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<v Speaker 2>So yes. Doctor Ferrari is one of the leading experts

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<v Speaker 2>in this, having been an author of the Seminole nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety five textbook Procrastination and Task Avoidance Theory, Research and Treatment,

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<v Speaker 2>and his less academic and more Hey I'm screwing up

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<v Speaker 2>my life with this and want to understand it, fix

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<v Speaker 2>it book Still Procrastinating, the No Regrets Guide to Getting

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<v Speaker 2>it Done Now. The threateningly inquisitive still Procrastinating came about

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<v Speaker 2>because of the horsepucky he often sees on the topic.

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<v Speaker 4>So the title is called still Procrastity because I got

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<v Speaker 4>tired of so many people following this time management myth.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah that it was, and these techniques that just warned

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<v Speaker 4>science based. So it really wasn't hard for me to

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<v Speaker 4>write because I knew the literature. You know, some people

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<v Speaker 4>say it takes a long time to write. Now, I

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<v Speaker 4>sat there in a couple of months. But room, I

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<v Speaker 4>mean we edited it, tweaked at the and all that.

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<v Speaker 4>But to typing it up was was I just knew

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<v Speaker 4>what to say. Yeah, and then I looked for interventions

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<v Speaker 4>because I really am more interested in the causes and

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<v Speaker 4>the consequences. But everybody wants the cures fixed me. So

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<v Speaker 4>you decided to write this book. So I wrote this

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<v Speaker 4>book and came out in twenty ten because I got

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<v Speaker 4>tired of all the other stuff that was out there

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<v Speaker 4>that really was not based on the sidelients, based on

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<v Speaker 4>what people were saying.

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<v Speaker 2>He mentioned some well worn advice about eating raw frogs

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<v Speaker 2>first thing in the morning, and this is metaphorical, it's

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<v Speaker 2>not a Silicon Valley biohack. But I've had some luck

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<v Speaker 2>with time blocking, which is giving myself specific times to

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<v Speaker 2>do certain tasks. But Ferrari says these tactics don't always

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<v Speaker 2>get to the heart of the problem.

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<v Speaker 4>If you have a list of things to do, put

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<v Speaker 4>them in order, and you know I grew up, that's

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<v Speaker 4>called prioritizing. That ain't procrastination. Clearly, if I have a

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<v Speaker 4>dozen things to do ten eleven, and twelve. Gotta wait,

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<v Speaker 4>want I do that? All right? So I'm working on that.

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<v Speaker 4>But that's not procrastinating. The true procrastinator has that list

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<v Speaker 4>of twelve and then maybe does one, maybe does two,

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<v Speaker 4>then rewrites the list, makes a copy of the list,

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<v Speaker 4>shuffle things around. Oh no, am I right?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Why are you seeing in my soul?

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<v Speaker 4>No? And I'm just saying that so structured or another

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<v Speaker 4>person talks about active procrastination. Now, listen to those words

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<v Speaker 4>active procrastination. How can I actively not do something? Inertia

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<v Speaker 4>is inertia?

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Ferra says he hates to see people taking advantage

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<v Speaker 2>of the agony procrastinators feel and offering them non effective

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<v Speaker 2>or non scientific solutions. I mean, can you blame him?

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<v Speaker 2>This man has spent his adult life hunkered over data sets,

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<v Speaker 2>doing serious science on the topic.

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<v Speaker 4>But there are a lot of people out there that

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<v Speaker 4>you know, are trying to cash in on a real problem. Seriously,

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<v Speaker 4>that's a problem for people in their life.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's the worst problem in my life.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, And I am a.

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<v Speaker 2>Super high achiever, great grades, super perfectionist. Everyone always commends

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<v Speaker 2>how hard I work, And it's this shameful secret that

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<v Speaker 2>I that I take the most important things, and I

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<v Speaker 2>do them last, because failing at them it would be terrible.

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<v Speaker 3>Is devastating.

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<v Speaker 4>So fear of failure it's clearly a major motor. But

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<v Speaker 4>even fear of success can cause people to procrastinate because

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<v Speaker 4>if I succeed, what happened.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, then it's just more work.

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<v Speaker 4>So I'm the lawyer who never finishes the brief on time,

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<v Speaker 4>so they don't get the firm doesn't give me an

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<v Speaker 4>additional stuff to do. I am not finishing the reports

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<v Speaker 4>on hither because prox Now it is kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>What did he call them?

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<v Speaker 5>Us?

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<v Speaker 4>And so okay, proc I call them PROCs short because

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<v Speaker 4>again I'm from New York and everything's gotta be fast

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<v Speaker 4>across the nation. Talks takes too long, so call them PROCs.

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<v Speaker 4>PROCs think the world is about themselves. I don't like it.

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<v Speaker 4>I can't do it. I don't want to fail, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't look good.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

414
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.839
<v Speaker 4>World is not about me. Life is about wi. If

415
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:39.519
<v Speaker 4>I don't do my task on time, then you can't

416
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:42.119
<v Speaker 4>do your task on time, which doesn't let the next

417
00:22:42.119 --> 00:22:44.839
<v Speaker 4>person do. So life is not about me. Life is

418
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:50.039
<v Speaker 4>about we. We live in unity, common unity, community.

419
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:53.000
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes we're so afraid of letting the community down.

420
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:54.599
<v Speaker 2>That we let the community down.

421
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.599
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, I didn't mean to do it.

422
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.079
<v Speaker 2>What are the mechanisms underlying that? And I know that

423
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:02.799
<v Speaker 2>this is a whole book's worth. But if someone is

424
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.839
<v Speaker 2>social esteem protection, okay, what does that mean?

425
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.960
<v Speaker 4>You know what self esteem is. That's how I feel

426
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.079
<v Speaker 4>about myself. PROCs are very concerned about what other people

427
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.240
<v Speaker 4>think of them, hence social esteem. I want you to

428
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:19.720
<v Speaker 4>like me. I don't want to fail. I don't want

429
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:22.599
<v Speaker 4>to do poorly. I want you to really like me. See,

430
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.440
<v Speaker 4>but if I never finish, you will then say I

431
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:28.400
<v Speaker 4>lack effort, not lack ability.

432
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, wow, that hurts.

433
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.279
<v Speaker 4>Lacking ability is much more stable, much more. It doesn't

434
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:39.880
<v Speaker 4>matter how much effort. It's much more consistent. Lacking effort

435
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:42.880
<v Speaker 4>means maybe I could do it. I just didn't have

436
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.359
<v Speaker 4>enough time. This would be much better. If I had

437
00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:47.759
<v Speaker 4>more time, I could really show you. Then, See, it's

438
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.359
<v Speaker 4>not my fault. It's time got away from me. I

439
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.759
<v Speaker 4>don't do nothing. Times are constant, which is why you

440
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.319
<v Speaker 4>can't manage time time manager? Can I go there?

441
00:23:57.480 --> 00:23:57.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

442
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.319
<v Speaker 2>I know that time management is a myth, is a myth,

443
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:02.039
<v Speaker 2>and I have tried that so many times like what

444
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:03.279
<v Speaker 2>do you feel? How do you feel about Like the

445
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.519
<v Speaker 2>Pomodoro method, and the Pomadora method is the kitchen timer

446
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:10.559
<v Speaker 2>twenty five minutes on, fifty five minutes off, you know, not.

447
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.119
<v Speaker 4>The fruit that you eat, no pomegranate, don't get.

448
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:16.519
<v Speaker 2>It, no, no, but it comes from Italian for pomodoro

449
00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:18.519
<v Speaker 2>because the guy who invented it had a had a

450
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 2>kitchen timer to look like a tomato. Yeah, so you

451
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:24.000
<v Speaker 2>set an egg timer for twenty five minutes you work,

452
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.039
<v Speaker 2>and then five minutes off, like or bullet journaling.

453
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:30.799
<v Speaker 4>For the eighty percent where it's time management problem they procrastinating,

454
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 4>these things will work. They talk about the five minute

455
00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:37.000
<v Speaker 4>plan that you can break things down. Yeah.

456
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:39.319
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, the five minute planned by the bye I just

457
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:42.240
<v Speaker 2>look this up. Is where you take a dreaded task,

458
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:46.119
<v Speaker 2>a loathesome assignment, and you tell yourself you will do

459
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:48.839
<v Speaker 2>it for five minutes and then you're out of there.

460
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.200
<v Speaker 2>And usually in that five minutes you're like, oh, okay,

461
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:55.000
<v Speaker 2>this isn't like hell on Earth, because we tend to

462
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>anticipate a task being so much worse than it actually is.

463
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:00.799
<v Speaker 2>So no harm trying that tactic.

464
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.039
<v Speaker 4>But if you're the twenty percent if you're listening to

465
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:10.079
<v Speaker 4>this and you say yeah, but for me, okay, this

466
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:14.119
<v Speaker 4>is entertaining. However, in my case, this is not going

467
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:19.200
<v Speaker 4>to work. You need cognitive behavior therapy AKA also known

468
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.640
<v Speaker 4>as CBT, because we need to change the way you

469
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:25.839
<v Speaker 4>think and the way you act, because again it's this

470
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:28.880
<v Speaker 4>lack of I don't want to show my lackability because

471
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:31.039
<v Speaker 4>they were so concerned with that. And yet life is

472
00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:33.400
<v Speaker 4>full of failure. Life is full of you're going to

473
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:36.400
<v Speaker 4>make mistakes, and actually you're going to be healthier. If

474
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.240
<v Speaker 4>you're going to make mistakes, is happier and happier they'd

475
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:43.119
<v Speaker 4>rather have them look as lacking of effort. Now there

476
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:44.920
<v Speaker 4>are three myths. Should I go there first?

477
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:45.519
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

478
00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:45.880
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

479
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.960
<v Speaker 2>The debunking flint Flam is one of my favorite segments.

480
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.720
<v Speaker 3>It's where you flin flam is myth? Yes, it's debunks

481
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:53.640
<v Speaker 3>and flin flams a.

482
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.480
<v Speaker 4>Right, Okay, all right, I call them myths.

483
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.559
<v Speaker 3>Okay, right on tomorrow.

484
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:01.319
<v Speaker 4>One of the myths that people say is technology makes

485
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:06.839
<v Speaker 4>it so much easier. Yeah, with my phone and everything else.

486
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 4>I got to answer that with the story. In two

487
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Speaker 4>thousand and six, a reporter from Connecticut phones me and

488
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.559
<v Speaker 4>says doctor Ferry, what do you think about the snooze

489
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:22.200
<v Speaker 4>button on alarm clocks? I don't have a phone of us, goes, Oh, yeah,

490
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:26.039
<v Speaker 4>that's the first technology for procrastination, and it's fifty years old.

491
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:29.920
<v Speaker 4>It was first available in nineteen fifty six. Oh wow, yes,

492
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.440
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know that. Yeah, so we've had a lot

493
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.079
<v Speaker 4>of time. And he's right, you gained nine minutes. Now,

494
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:38.119
<v Speaker 4>there's nothing wrong with gaining him minus the problem is

495
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.240
<v Speaker 4>you keep pressing it. You keep pressing it. That's the problem.

496
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.920
<v Speaker 4>So then I started thinking about that. Okay, So the

497
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.480
<v Speaker 4>technology back in fifty six allowed us to do What

498
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 4>about the telephone eighteen eighty five? Okay, there was a

499
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.240
<v Speaker 4>time you had to write your letter out, make sure

500
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:56.599
<v Speaker 4>it got to the person, give them five days, give

501
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:01.400
<v Speaker 4>them time to come back. Now I could wait, give

502
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.599
<v Speaker 4>me your okay, and you could do You could do

503
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.480
<v Speaker 4>this at the last minute. The automobile earlier than the phone.

504
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:10.160
<v Speaker 4>There was a time I had to get my horse

505
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.680
<v Speaker 4>and my buggy together and feed it and get it

506
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.720
<v Speaker 4>all together. Now I could just go in my car.

507
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.200
<v Speaker 3>Uh huh.

508
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:20.400
<v Speaker 4>So there's always been technology. Don't give me this poo poo,

509
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:24.880
<v Speaker 4>that it's technology makes it easier. Myth number two. Myth

510
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:30.599
<v Speaker 4>number two is oh but ferrari, you don't understand. Our

511
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:34.400
<v Speaker 4>lives are so much busier today. We have so much

512
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:37.480
<v Speaker 4>going on. I just can't manage it all. It's too much.

513
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:43.240
<v Speaker 4>What an insult to our ancestors to get up? Who

514
00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:45.359
<v Speaker 4>are farmers? Get up in the morning and make sure

515
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:47.880
<v Speaker 4>the field was plowed, fix the roof, get the pump working.

516
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.920
<v Speaker 4>Can the goods feed the anto? They didn't have a

517
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:55.400
<v Speaker 4>lot to do. There's one hundred and sixty eight hours

518
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.279
<v Speaker 4>a week, twenty four times seven, no more, no less.

519
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:03.039
<v Speaker 4>Don't tell me we're busier. We're different. Oh absolutely, yes,

520
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.799
<v Speaker 4>not the same. It's not busier. Don't give me that excuse.

521
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.519
<v Speaker 4>Don't insult our ancestors. You cannot manage time. You only

522
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.920
<v Speaker 4>manage yourself. There is an expression we cannot control the wind,

523
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.640
<v Speaker 4>but we can adjust our sails. We can adjust how

524
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:23.400
<v Speaker 4>we deal with this. And the Japanese say, and if

525
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 4>there's no wind, row, get yourself going.

526
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:29.319
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And then what about myth three?

527
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 4>Okay? And myth number Am I taking too long? No?

528
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:33.759
<v Speaker 4>I love them? I love this okay, So I tell you,

529
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:38.119
<v Speaker 4>I can talk forever myth number three. Oh oh oh, okay,

530
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:42.119
<v Speaker 4>all right, Ferrari. So technology has been there and time

531
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.119
<v Speaker 4>has always been the same. But you know, I just

532
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 4>work best on the pressure. Yes, oh, I gotta wait

533
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:51.480
<v Speaker 4>till that last minute, Ferrari. It gets me going, It

534
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:54.839
<v Speaker 4>gets the juices moving, and I always seem to succeed.

535
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you've read my journal.

536
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but what juices are those? Exactly? Well, they're stress hormones.

537
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.519
<v Speaker 2>And if you need them to get a job done, congratulations.

538
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:11.960
<v Speaker 2>You are an arousal procrastinator, as opposed to the avoidance procrastinators,

539
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.559
<v Speaker 2>who just feel like their success or failure at any

540
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>given task is a huge indicator of their worth on

541
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:23.839
<v Speaker 2>the planet. So a Tasmanian devil arousal versus an armadillo avoidance,

542
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:24.480
<v Speaker 2>if you will.

543
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:25.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm a little bit of both.

544
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.400
<v Speaker 2>And as you can imagine, by putting those animals together,

545
00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:29.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not attractive.

546
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:31.640
<v Speaker 3>So what happens do we gets?

547
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:32.039
<v Speaker 1>No?

548
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.400
<v Speaker 4>So yes, so I brought them in the lab. Did experiments.

549
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:39.200
<v Speaker 4>A lot of people think the research on procrastination that

550
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:41.960
<v Speaker 4>I and others do are just surveys. Absolutely not. I

551
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.000
<v Speaker 4>have done a lot of experiments meaning you bring procrastinators

552
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.440
<v Speaker 4>in the lab and non procrastinators and you have them

553
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.400
<v Speaker 4>do tasks. So in a series of tasks, they made

554
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.640
<v Speaker 4>more errors at the last minute. They took longer, but

555
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.799
<v Speaker 4>they thought they did better at the last minute. So

556
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.000
<v Speaker 4>there's this perception I do better. And if you talk procrastinators,

557
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.359
<v Speaker 4>they will tell you all ferrari, I remember the time

558
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:07.240
<v Speaker 4>when I waited and this thing happened, And you go,

559
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:10.400
<v Speaker 4>I remember that too, that was like what eighteen years ago?

560
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.039
<v Speaker 4>You're told me that was like thirty to one years ago,

561
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:15.839
<v Speaker 4>And they oh, yeah, yeah, what about all the failure since?

562
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:18.799
<v Speaker 4>So they will harp on, they will remember the times

563
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:21.319
<v Speaker 4>when it works, because life is a very as we

564
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:25.200
<v Speaker 4>say in the trade, a variable schedule of reinforcement. You

565
00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:28.119
<v Speaker 4>don't always fail, you don't always succeed, and so this

566
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.440
<v Speaker 4>is the time it's going to happen.

567
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.799
<v Speaker 2>Side note, a variable schedule of reinforcement was not a

568
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.000
<v Speaker 2>term that rolled off my tongue, so I had to

569
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:38.640
<v Speaker 2>look it up. And it means you never know when

570
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:42.000
<v Speaker 2>something will pay off, kind of like lotto scratchers or

571
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.279
<v Speaker 2>playing a slot machine, or swiping right on someone who

572
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.559
<v Speaker 2>might not like you. Back I myself not a Vegas gambler.

573
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I get no thrills from feeding money into a video

574
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.640
<v Speaker 2>game owned by money pigs. So to put that in perspective,

575
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.640
<v Speaker 2>let's look at procrastination as a gamble. So the notion

576
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 2>that the high stake danger of doing something last minute

577
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:07.039
<v Speaker 2>would lead to some jackpot of genius is of course foolish.

578
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.839
<v Speaker 2>And doctor Ferrari says that your odds of doing a

579
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.160
<v Speaker 2>good job on something are way higher and more predictably

580
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.240
<v Speaker 2>so by just doing things earlier, whether that's writing your

581
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:21.400
<v Speaker 2>book of short stories or buying plane tickets. So procrastination

582
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.440
<v Speaker 2>is a huge crapshoot, and remember the house always wins.

583
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I read in a book that people who procrastinate on

584
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:30.000
<v Speaker 2>in terms of personality psychology, and I have to run

585
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.119
<v Speaker 2>an episode on that tend to have lower conscientiousness and

586
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:34.160
<v Speaker 2>higher neuroticism.

587
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:36.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and they tend to worry about the future.

588
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.920
<v Speaker 4>Neuroticism is not as much as people thought. It's clearly conscientiousness.

589
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:43.279
<v Speaker 4>Now what are we talking about here? People don't understand that.

590
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:48.799
<v Speaker 4>Personality researchers have said that there's really five we call

591
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.799
<v Speaker 4>them the Big five personality variables that all comes down

592
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:55.000
<v Speaker 4>the five. And actually there's a six, and I can

593
00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:56.839
<v Speaker 4>talk about that in a minute. But anyway, there's the

594
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 4>big five. And the easiest way to remember think of

595
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.599
<v Speaker 4>the word oh, and that will give you the an

596
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:03.480
<v Speaker 4>acronym the.

597
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh your openness, openness to experience, conscientiousness, extraversion, agreeableness, and neuroticism.

598
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.559
<v Speaker 4>Spell the word ocean. And that's how I teach students

599
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.039
<v Speaker 4>to remember. Okay, so the big one. Interestingly, lee enough,

600
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:24.920
<v Speaker 4>there's very little research on conscientiousness, but procrastination seems to

601
00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:27.680
<v Speaker 4>be the strong opposite. So again when I get pushed

602
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:29.960
<v Speaker 4>back from colleagues as so this is not a real topic,

603
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:35.240
<v Speaker 4>I say, study the opposite of conscientiousness, study procrastination. It's

604
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.519
<v Speaker 4>correlated negatively. I have not done that research. I'm not

605
00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:42.200
<v Speaker 4>a big fiver we call them. And in fact, I

606
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:45.359
<v Speaker 4>like there's a newer mode call the hexaco that adds

607
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.839
<v Speaker 4>in the H that would be on humility and honesty.

608
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.680
<v Speaker 4>What these researchers have found is the five works, but

609
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:57.920
<v Speaker 4>you're missing something. People are honest and humility. But I

610
00:32:57.960 --> 00:32:59.559
<v Speaker 4>tell you it's hard to be humble when you're great.

611
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:00.640
<v Speaker 4>You know it.

612
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:03.920
<v Speaker 2>And so this is and well that also brings back

613
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>to the social social esteem. I mean that seems like

614
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:11.200
<v Speaker 2>procrastination is not a problem that you struggle with, but

615
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>you do have people in your life that you might

616
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.359
<v Speaker 2>be sure, lots of you sure, I'll just say that

617
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:20.640
<v Speaker 2>in a general sense, and not reading I work with

618
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:21.279
<v Speaker 2>people out of this.

619
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.599
<v Speaker 3>You may have dedicated the book to someone very close.

620
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:26.839
<v Speaker 4>You know, they have to buy the book and find

621
00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:31.000
<v Speaker 4>out exactly Now that's the book. What book are we

622
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.359
<v Speaker 4>talking about. We're talking about still Procrastinate, The No Regrets

623
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:35.480
<v Speaker 4>Guide to Getting.

624
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.319
<v Speaker 3>It Done, of course, which there will be a link

625
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:37.799
<v Speaker 3>in the show notes.

626
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:42.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, now, so when you're when you're studying this, do

627
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:44.920
<v Speaker 2>your relationships with people close to you who struggle with

628
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:46.839
<v Speaker 2>procrast do they inform your research?

629
00:33:48.039 --> 00:33:51.640
<v Speaker 4>Yes? They informed, But I remember the good These procrastinators

630
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.480
<v Speaker 4>are good excuse maker, right, And so whenever they hear

631
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:57.799
<v Speaker 4>anything I'm talking about, or any podcast or any interview

632
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.880
<v Speaker 4>that I'll do on the phone afterwards, get very annoyed

633
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:04.160
<v Speaker 4>and they say, well that's old. They come over, excuse

634
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:06.759
<v Speaker 4>you have old research? You have you're only looking at

635
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:12.199
<v Speaker 4>one thing. Yeah, so an excuse making. But you don't

636
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 4>understand in my situation, blah blah blah blah.

637
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:19.159
<v Speaker 2>Do you do you have a gushy, empathetic heart for

638
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.760
<v Speaker 2>the anxious struggles of the progression?

639
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.679
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, don't think I'm being called Yes, but I'm not

640
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:28.000
<v Speaker 4>going to let them.

641
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:29.159
<v Speaker 3>Get away with it because it doesn't help.

642
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:31.519
<v Speaker 4>No, it doesn't help enable them. I'm not going to

643
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.400
<v Speaker 4>enable them because life is not about them. Life is

644
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.320
<v Speaker 4>about us. Life is about all of us and that

645
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.679
<v Speaker 4>and all I be doing is do I feel bad

646
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 4>for them? Yes? And sympathetic? Yes? And I try to,

647
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:47.239
<v Speaker 4>you know, advise. I get calls all the time, emails

648
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:49.960
<v Speaker 4>all the time. I've struggled all my life that what

649
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.440
<v Speaker 4>can I do? And I empathetic and I say, yes,

650
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:57.079
<v Speaker 4>I understand. I'm not a clinical psychologist. However, I give

651
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.079
<v Speaker 4>them just a few tidbits and they go, oh, that's me,

652
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:01.800
<v Speaker 4>you know very much. They can relate to it. So

653
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:02.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't think I'm off the mark.

654
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:06.360
<v Speaker 3>No, No, right on the money. What's so painful and

655
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:07.280
<v Speaker 3>wonderful about it?

656
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:11.199
<v Speaker 2>So in one of doctor Ferrari's approximately one billion studies,

657
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:14.639
<v Speaker 2>he looked at different types of artists to see if

658
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:19.239
<v Speaker 2>procrastination is actually an important part of their process. Is

659
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.119
<v Speaker 2>it the secret sauce on their chicken burger.

660
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:26.400
<v Speaker 4>So I wondered, are these creative procrastinators savoring that's why

661
00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 4>they're trying, or are they ruminating about failure? Bottom line? What

662
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.119
<v Speaker 4>do you think ruminating about? Mt? About?

663
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 3>What about perfectionism?

664
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.719
<v Speaker 4>Okay, perfectionism is also related to procrastination, but it's a

665
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.840
<v Speaker 4>separate concept. He's too overlap, but there's different. There's a

666
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.920
<v Speaker 4>body of literature on perfectionism, but there is a crossover

667
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:49.320
<v Speaker 4>with procrastination. Non procrastinators are perfectionistic, and so are procrastinators perfectionism.

668
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:53.079
<v Speaker 4>But what's the difference between them? Ah, long story short.

669
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:58.760
<v Speaker 4>The procrastinator is perfectionistic for a motive, a desire to

670
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:04.079
<v Speaker 4>get along. The non procrastinator is perfectionistic to get ahead.

671
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.400
<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, you understand the difference. One is I want

672
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:10.199
<v Speaker 4>to do the best job to get ahead. The other

673
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.480
<v Speaker 4>one is I want you to like me. Yeah you say,

674
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:15.199
<v Speaker 4>don't you say I work hard? Oh? Isn't it good?

675
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.079
<v Speaker 4>I really worked hard, didn't I? Okay?

676
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that was doctor Ferrari mimicking a desperate puppy. In

677
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.480
<v Speaker 2>case you're feeling scathingly understood right now, as am I?

678
00:36:26.840 --> 00:36:28.639
<v Speaker 3>And where does that come from. Does that come from?

679
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:33.239
<v Speaker 4>Where's the origin of perfection? You've read some of the stuff,

680
00:36:33.639 --> 00:36:37.440
<v Speaker 4>you already have your questions in your head. Okay, that's

681
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:39.840
<v Speaker 4>a great question. Okay, First of all, there's no gene

682
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:44.599
<v Speaker 4>for procrastinating. There's no genetic gene. Every two years is

683
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.440
<v Speaker 4>an international meeting on the study of procrastination. Didn't they

684
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:47.960
<v Speaker 4>say that it is?

685
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:49.039
<v Speaker 3>I did twenty seventeen.

686
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:52.599
<v Speaker 4>Yes, when I did it in twenty seventeen, there were

687
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:57.239
<v Speaker 4>researchers from Denver area who came in and followed up

688
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.480
<v Speaker 4>an earlier study of mine on genetics, and they found

689
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:04.280
<v Speaker 4>with identical twins, they found that procrastination was less than

690
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:08.840
<v Speaker 4>fifty percent explained by jeans. So it's not genetic. I

691
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:11.639
<v Speaker 4>had shown earlier in the nineties when I was pumping

692
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:15.639
<v Speaker 4>this stuff out, that it was parenting style. It's a

693
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.440
<v Speaker 4>learned tendency. You learn to become a procrastinator, and that

694
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:25.360
<v Speaker 4>means you can unlearn it. Yes, you can teach old

695
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:27.639
<v Speaker 4>dogs new tricks. I tell people, you just use a

696
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:31.679
<v Speaker 4>different bone and you take longer, all right, But can

697
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:34.079
<v Speaker 4>you teach them Absolutely, it's just going to be harder.

698
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:38.159
<v Speaker 4>So what I found was a certain parenting style that

699
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:42.440
<v Speaker 4>elicited that caused kids to become procrastinators. And what style

700
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 4>is that? That's the call demanding parents? As long as

701
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.920
<v Speaker 4>you live under this roof, yoda, I don't want to

702
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.119
<v Speaker 4>hear any lip I said, you do this, well, that

703
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:56.000
<v Speaker 4>causes a child who can't revolt to what just take

704
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:58.920
<v Speaker 4>your time, which would make the parent what even more

705
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:01.480
<v Speaker 4>angry for the big one? And then you get on.

706
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it's like a little bit of but it's

707
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:05.079
<v Speaker 3>a little control.

708
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:08.960
<v Speaker 4>They can exactly over this kind of thing. And we

709
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:11.800
<v Speaker 4>found particularly let me ask you the question, who do

710
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:14.079
<v Speaker 4>you think you find this more common? And who do

711
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:17.719
<v Speaker 4>you think causes kids who concrastinators? Moms or dads?

712
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:22.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you know, I just keep thinking about my perfectionist grandparents.

713
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:26.480
<v Speaker 2>And so I had grandparents who demanded perfection when they

714
00:38:26.599 --> 00:38:28.880
<v Speaker 2>come over. Our rooms had to be spotless, you know,

715
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:29.719
<v Speaker 2>things like that.

716
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:31.639
<v Speaker 4>Wow, And they would look to see if there's any.

717
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Does literally, and they would give you a roll of

718
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:37.440
<v Speaker 2>coins and then they would take one away for every indiscretion.

719
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 4>There are a lot of fun and so.

720
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like I got nichols.

721
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:44.199
<v Speaker 2>My older sister got quarters, which was so annoying because

722
00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what so, but yes, yeah, so I

723
00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:50.000
<v Speaker 2>still had my tiny hands had to make the bed.

724
00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:53.000
<v Speaker 2>But but yeah so, but I would guess that would

725
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:54.840
<v Speaker 2>be like a demanding father figure.

726
00:38:55.079 --> 00:39:00.960
<v Speaker 4>Probably it was the father's Usually we blame everything on mom, Mom,

727
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:04.159
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry. In this case, we are finding it's dad,

728
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:08.760
<v Speaker 4>and they report procrasting is a shallower relationship with dad,

729
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:14.000
<v Speaker 4>more conflict with dad, less support finding from dad, so

730
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:17.519
<v Speaker 4>giving that profile and everything else. So it's a learn tendency.

731
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:19.440
<v Speaker 4>That's where it comes from. The answer your question, and

732
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.719
<v Speaker 4>it tends to begin in the home. And this is

733
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:24.119
<v Speaker 4>the way the person has learned to adjust. And our

734
00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 4>culture rewards us for procrastinating. Let me go there for

735
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:32.679
<v Speaker 4>a minute. Okay, taxes are coming up April fifteenth. Now,

736
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.239
<v Speaker 4>if you owe money, there's absolutely no reason why you

737
00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:40.920
<v Speaker 4>should file earlier. I'm that stupid, all right. The government's

738
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:42.920
<v Speaker 4>got it wrong. I'm a fan of and this is

739
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.199
<v Speaker 4>another one of my lines is don't punish for being

740
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:50.840
<v Speaker 4>late procrastinating, reward for being early. Oh wow, And the

741
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.559
<v Speaker 4>government needs to do that. So you can't file in

742
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:55.960
<v Speaker 4>January because you're getting all your papers. The government should say,

743
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:59.039
<v Speaker 4>if you can send this stuff in by February fifteenth.

744
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.159
<v Speaker 4>We'll let you say five percent. Yeah, well, the government

745
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:04.800
<v Speaker 4>gets it too much earlier. You save some money. Is

746
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:09.159
<v Speaker 4>your reinforced March fifteenth, three percent? Yeah, April fifteenth, you

747
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:12.199
<v Speaker 4>pay it all. That will not work with the twenty

748
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.840
<v Speaker 4>percent chronic, Yeah, but it'll work with the eighty percent.

749
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:19.280
<v Speaker 4>Our culture is punitive. Our culture punishes you. We don't

750
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:22.480
<v Speaker 4>give the early bird the worm. Let's reward the person

751
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:24.320
<v Speaker 4>who does it earlier, incentivizing it.

752
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:27.039
<v Speaker 3>And this I have so many I have I know

753
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:27.760
<v Speaker 3>you have lots.

754
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.800
<v Speaker 2>So many questions, but I want to get to patroon questions.

755
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 2>But of course before your questions. Each week we donate

756
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:36.800
<v Speaker 2>to a charity of the ologists choosing, and this week

757
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:41.159
<v Speaker 2>the cause of autoimmune vasculitis research is meaningful to doctor

758
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Ferrari and his family, so we donated to Vasculitis Foundation

759
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.760
<v Speaker 2>dot org in honor of him and his love Sharon Ferrari.

760
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:51.119
<v Speaker 2>And I looked for an additional charity to send some cash,

761
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:55.719
<v Speaker 2>one that helps people afflicted with procrastination. And I spent

762
00:40:55.800 --> 00:41:02.400
<v Speaker 2>honestly like an hour googling, googling, googling nothing until the

763
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 2>line between doing research and just wasting time was so blurred,

764
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.960
<v Speaker 2>so I could not find a procrastination charity.

765
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:11.679
<v Speaker 3>I don't think they exist.

766
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:16.159
<v Speaker 2>So Vasculitisfoundation dot org is this week's recipient, and let

767
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.800
<v Speaker 2>that be an indicator of just how little people recognize

768
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the impact of procrastination on physical and mental health and

769
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:27.400
<v Speaker 2>on industry. Anyway, that donation was made possible by sponsors

770
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:28.920
<v Speaker 2>of the show, who you may hear me talk about.

771
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Now get value you can't argue with at Tesco with

772
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:35.639
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773
00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:38.320
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774
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775
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776
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:47.400
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777
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:50.079
<v Speaker 1>chunkie chips and ice cream like Sea Salt de Caramel

778
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.519
<v Speaker 1>or pistachio for dessert. Can't argue with that? Shelp in

779
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:58.000
<v Speaker 1>store or online Tesco. Every little helps available in most stories.

780
00:41:58.039 --> 00:41:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Prices vary in express.

781
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, back to your questions, and honestly, there were so

782
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:06.880
<v Speaker 2>many people with this question. I'm going to list just

783
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.880
<v Speaker 2>first names for brevity and also anonymity, but I see

784
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:15.360
<v Speaker 2>you my pod children Ethan, kat Andrea, Anna, Leah, Nicole, Julie,

785
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:18.440
<v Speaker 2>Nick Maddie and first time question asker is Maria Ethan

786
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 2>and someone by the name of I'm not your Lama.

787
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:23.079
<v Speaker 2>But the biggest question I got, and I can't even

788
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:26.880
<v Speaker 2>list how many people asked this was just doctor Ferrari.

789
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:30.880
<v Speaker 3>World expert of procrastination, what do I do?

790
00:42:31.639 --> 00:42:34.800
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Well, again, if you're part of the twenty percent

791
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.400
<v Speaker 4>where this is your I'm honest, I have to tell

792
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:41.599
<v Speaker 4>you the truth. Maladaptive lifestyle. It seems to be pervasive,

793
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:43.280
<v Speaker 4>and you've been doing it all your life and you're

794
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:46.360
<v Speaker 4>doing it in all these settings, then you need therapy.

795
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:47.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm the story.

796
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:52.079
<v Speaker 4>You need cognitive behavior therapy. I don't want to diss

797
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:54.559
<v Speaker 4>any of my colleagues, but I'm saying, find a good

798
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:59.559
<v Speaker 4>clinical psychologist who's trained not in time management, who's going

799
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:01.679
<v Speaker 4>to help you change the way you think and the

800
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:04.800
<v Speaker 4>way you act. But suppose you're part of the twenty

801
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:08.239
<v Speaker 4>percent that many of your respondents might have been people

802
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:11.199
<v Speaker 4>who say I only procrastinate as one thing or this

803
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:16.960
<v Speaker 4>area of my life. Okay, if because they're so concerned

804
00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:20.800
<v Speaker 4>about social esteem, what others think. Publicly post what you

805
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.480
<v Speaker 4>have to do, put it on Facebook or Instagram, whatever

806
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:27.079
<v Speaker 4>you use. Okay, I say, if friends this is what

807
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:30.920
<v Speaker 4>I gotta do, contact me in three days. Let me know.

808
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:34.159
<v Speaker 4>They're very concerned about what we'll think about. Now, that's

809
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:36.639
<v Speaker 4>not a new technique. You see. We talk about how

810
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:41.440
<v Speaker 4>technology public posting goes back to God when I was

811
00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:44.000
<v Speaker 4>in college in the seventies. But and I remember reading

812
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:47.599
<v Speaker 4>in the sixties that literature on public posting, you're more

813
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.199
<v Speaker 4>likely to do something if it's publicly posted than if

814
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:54.360
<v Speaker 4>you don't. So with technology we can use that again.

815
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:58.480
<v Speaker 4>But it's not a new concept. Surround yourself with doers,

816
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.000
<v Speaker 4>not with people who are going to black people who

817
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:03.360
<v Speaker 4>are going to get things done. I didn't finish more

818
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:06.119
<v Speaker 4>about the procrastination and perfectionism.

819
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, and.

820
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.599
<v Speaker 4>I just got jump back there from me. Okay. I

821
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:12.320
<v Speaker 4>had a one year visiting position in the Qunity System

822
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.239
<v Speaker 4>City University of New York. And while I was there,

823
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:19.960
<v Speaker 4>I had business in Baroque College, well known excellent school

824
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:22.679
<v Speaker 4>for business. I had a lot of business majors MBAs

825
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:25.920
<v Speaker 4>and psychology students starting to be business. So I had

826
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:29.000
<v Speaker 4>to go out and collect data on their jobs. And

827
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.880
<v Speaker 4>I said, let's take a vignette, a little story about

828
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:34.960
<v Speaker 4>a guy. We called them mister Nolan. He was a

829
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.840
<v Speaker 4>company auditor. He worked really hard, but he never got

830
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:42.440
<v Speaker 4>things in on time. Happily married, fine, everything's financially stable,

831
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.519
<v Speaker 4>and whenever you asked, I'm working on it. At the

832
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.079
<v Speaker 4>end of that vignette, for one third, he calls himself

833
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:53.599
<v Speaker 4>a procrastinator. For another third he calls himself a perfectionist,

834
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:57.480
<v Speaker 4>and another third no label. Okay, So they had people

835
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:00.039
<v Speaker 4>at their workplace because I like to use adults. It

836
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:02.159
<v Speaker 4>was just commege students in my data, because I think

837
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:09.719
<v Speaker 4>it's easy to generalize to non university populations. So we

838
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 4>had the three people. The people read over that and

839
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 4>then they filled in measures on whether they were procrastinators

840
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:18.440
<v Speaker 4>or not. So we compared procrastinators and non procrastinators on

841
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:23.320
<v Speaker 4>how they evaluate another procrastinator. Because my question really was,

842
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 4>as I listened to these business people, if I'm a

843
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.920
<v Speaker 4>procrastinator and my boss is a procrastinator, when I come

844
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.199
<v Speaker 4>up from my annual review at the end of the year,

845
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:35.119
<v Speaker 4>is she going to be easier on me? Because after all,

846
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:37.559
<v Speaker 4>two of the same or she going to be harder.

847
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:42.280
<v Speaker 4>So what did we find? Wow, it didn't matter if

848
00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:47.360
<v Speaker 4>they called themselves a perfectionist or a procrastinator. But the procrastinators,

849
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:50.599
<v Speaker 4>more than the non procrassion wanted to fire him, said

850
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:54.440
<v Speaker 4>he is the cause of the problem, a terrible, horrible

851
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:58.519
<v Speaker 4>So what's the takeaway if you're a procrastinator, and even

852
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.559
<v Speaker 4>if you call yourself a perfraction is people are not

853
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:05.639
<v Speaker 4>gonna like you other procrastinators. They want to distance themselves

854
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.559
<v Speaker 4>from you. Again again, they're very concerned about that social image,

855
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:12.239
<v Speaker 4>going back to how to treat it. So don't surround

856
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:15.119
<v Speaker 4>yourself with other procrassors. They're not gonna like you that

857
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.639
<v Speaker 4>you surround yourself with non procrastinators.

858
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, So my fellow procrastinators, the ones who are

859
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:25.559
<v Speaker 2>afraid of doing a bad job and having people mad

860
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:28.480
<v Speaker 2>at you. I have good news and I have bad news.

861
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:31.320
<v Speaker 2>They're mad at us anyway. Everyone hates us for taking

862
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:35.079
<v Speaker 2>too long. We're just screwing ourselves. There's no need to

863
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.599
<v Speaker 2>delay it. People can only like us more.

864
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.400
<v Speaker 4>This is a revelation in social psychology. Another study we

865
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:44.400
<v Speaker 4>did is a concept called social loafing. Have you heard

866
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:48.360
<v Speaker 4>that social loafing. Oh yeah, that's an oldie.

867
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:49.599
<v Speaker 3>Never heard of that, never got to have me as

868
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:51.800
<v Speaker 3>I know once a month.

869
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:57.840
<v Speaker 4>Come on, let's talk to Ferrari. But yeah, social loafing

870
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:02.599
<v Speaker 4>that when people are in a groups and the individual

871
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:06.400
<v Speaker 4>performance is not evaluated. But it's like in a classroom

872
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:09.280
<v Speaker 4>setting or job, I want one report from the group,

873
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:13.199
<v Speaker 4>you will get social loafing. Okay, people will not do it.

874
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:15.599
<v Speaker 4>PROCs are notorious for that.

875
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:19.320
<v Speaker 2>In his book Still Procrastinating, The No Regrets Guide to

876
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Getting It Done, doctor Ferrari defines a social loafer as someone,

877
00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:28.280
<v Speaker 2>say on a group project, who just coasts like, hangs back,

878
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.199
<v Speaker 2>lets you all figure a project out. And maybe you

879
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:34.440
<v Speaker 2>think that they are smoking a doobie and playing bongos

880
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.559
<v Speaker 2>in the parking lot, but actually they're wringing their hands

881
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:40.320
<v Speaker 2>in the bathroom, worried they're just gonna let everyone down.

882
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:43.719
<v Speaker 4>So in a one study, we had procrastinators read other

883
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.079
<v Speaker 4>evaluate other people in this scenario who were loafing. Oh

884
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:50.639
<v Speaker 4>they were the hell on living hell.

885
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:52.559
<v Speaker 3>They were a public enemy, public acaty.

886
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.519
<v Speaker 4>So even with you socially loaf, they're not going to

887
00:47:56.599 --> 00:48:00.719
<v Speaker 4>give you why why when they're just like me that

888
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:03.559
<v Speaker 4>because again I want to distance myself and this is

889
00:48:03.639 --> 00:48:06.760
<v Speaker 4>not a socially acceptable concept. And I have to tell

890
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:09.360
<v Speaker 4>you I have seen in the last fifteen twenty years

891
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:12.840
<v Speaker 4>a lot more media, a lot more on procrastination out

892
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.960
<v Speaker 4>there than ever was when I started forty years ago,

893
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:18.400
<v Speaker 4>thirty well, god, forty years ago, whatever it was, there

894
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:21.599
<v Speaker 4>was nothing. Now it's a very common thing. So back

895
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:26.320
<v Speaker 4>to what you can do. Surround yourself with doers publicly post.

896
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:30.400
<v Speaker 4>Don't let people let you get away with it, hold

897
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:34.280
<v Speaker 4>you accountable, okay. And then there's lots of other time

898
00:48:35.159 --> 00:48:37.280
<v Speaker 4>time management and I really hesitated that. You can hear

899
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.440
<v Speaker 4>it in my voice saying time manager, because you don't

900
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:44.199
<v Speaker 4>manage time but break the task down into small little chunks.

901
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.920
<v Speaker 4>You ever hear the expression don't miss the forest for

902
00:48:48.039 --> 00:48:50.719
<v Speaker 4>the trees, in other words, don't miss the big picture

903
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:53.159
<v Speaker 4>because you're caught up with all the little parts. Yeah,

904
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.800
<v Speaker 4>that's not the procrastinators problem. They see the forest, they

905
00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:59.119
<v Speaker 4>forget that it's what made of trees.

906
00:48:59.679 --> 00:49:00.960
<v Speaker 3>They just see one big terrifi.

907
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:05.599
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god, I have to do this thing. Holy god,

908
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.159
<v Speaker 4>I can't. This is a I'd never do it. I

909
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:10.840
<v Speaker 4>can't do it. Right. They see the fart. They see

910
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:14.239
<v Speaker 4>the fart. So you teach them cut one tree. You

911
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.519
<v Speaker 4>can't cut one tree, give me three branches. Can't give

912
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.199
<v Speaker 4>three branches, take a handful of leaves. Because what's the commercial?

913
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:24.360
<v Speaker 4>A body in motion stays in motion. It's more physics.

914
00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:27.679
<v Speaker 4>Okay that once. Yeah, stopping a train is very hard

915
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:31.480
<v Speaker 4>once it's a movie. So get going. Just do it now,

916
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:34.480
<v Speaker 4>not Nancy Reagan's just say no, Just say now.

917
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So this next question was asked by so many

918
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.840
<v Speaker 2>people on patreon dot com soshologies. I'm gonna say your

919
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:50.599
<v Speaker 2>first name's gonna do it quickly. Margaret Shock, Honor, Beatrice, Ryan, Margaret, Alisa, Jamie, Noah, Elizabeth, Nikula, Sandro, Moses, Ali, Zultan, Annie, Sophie,

920
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Mike and my first time question asking bbes Tracy, Andrea,

921
00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:59.840
<v Speaker 2>so Lemia, Angela, Deborah, Maria, Kelly Elliott and Xavier or

922
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:02.679
<v Speaker 2>Xavier I'm not sure how French you are? And now

923
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:08.719
<v Speaker 2>what about things comorbidities like ADHD, say or generalized anxiety disorder,

924
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:11.679
<v Speaker 2>like what other factors can someone may be attack that

925
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:14.239
<v Speaker 2>might be a component of their procrastination.

926
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, in this book, I actually have on chapter twelve

927
00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:21.000
<v Speaker 4>looking at procrastination and personality styles and some of these

928
00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.480
<v Speaker 4>negative consequences. I hesitate to say this because sometimes people

929
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:27.559
<v Speaker 4>get very annoyed with my comment. But there's only been

930
00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.440
<v Speaker 4>one study that looked at procrastination in ADHD, and I

931
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:33.440
<v Speaker 4>did it, and I found practically no relationship.

932
00:50:33.519 --> 00:50:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Really.

933
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:37.840
<v Speaker 4>Yes, again, people say that's cuch a word and proneness different,

934
00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:44.960
<v Speaker 4>thrill seeking different, easily distractable, yes, but not ADHD. See,

935
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.599
<v Speaker 4>there are different measures we use in psychology, and thrill

936
00:50:48.679 --> 00:50:52.400
<v Speaker 4>seeking is a measure of the Zuckerman Martin Zuckerman Zuckerman

937
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.840
<v Speaker 4>from I can put it in.

938
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, okay, yes, I look this up and the

939
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:03.400
<v Speaker 2>late Marvin Zuckerman's work focused on sensation seeking. There's even

940
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:07.440
<v Speaker 2>a sensation seeking scale and yeah, yeah, I found it

941
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:10.760
<v Speaker 2>online and I took it. I answered this nineteen point

942
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:13.840
<v Speaker 2>academic quiz and at the end it said, if you

943
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:17.639
<v Speaker 2>checked eleven or more of the items, you're probably a

944
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:22.199
<v Speaker 2>sensation seeker. If you checked seven or fewer of the items,

945
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:25.840
<v Speaker 2>you're probably not a sensation seeker. My score?

946
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:26.400
<v Speaker 3>Are you ready for this?

947
00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Six? Just off the charts? Risk averse, my friends. But

948
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:34.039
<v Speaker 2>if you would agree with statements like I prefer friends

949
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.960
<v Speaker 2>who are unpredictable, or I often wish I were a

950
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:40.880
<v Speaker 2>mountain climber, or I would like to try some of

951
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:45.480
<v Speaker 2>the new drugs that produce hallucinations. You might seek thrills ps.

952
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.280
<v Speaker 2>This quiz was written in the late nineteen sixties.

953
00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:53.119
<v Speaker 4>Groovy Time uh Zuckerman's thrill Seeking Measure shows are you

954
00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:57.519
<v Speaker 4>easily distracted? Are you boredom prone? There are people and

955
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:00.000
<v Speaker 4>so while it sounds like ADHD, it's a different cut.

956
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:03.440
<v Speaker 4>That's true, and it's only one study, so I'm not

957
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.320
<v Speaker 4>willing to say there isn't a relationship. Although when I

958
00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:08.199
<v Speaker 4>say that, they get very people in the field get

959
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:11.760
<v Speaker 4>very angry. You're understanding, I see that. You know, it's

960
00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:16.800
<v Speaker 4>a hard concept to wrap around progressing because it's sometimes

961
00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:19.920
<v Speaker 4>the outcome and sometimes it's the cause. You see, I

962
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:23.599
<v Speaker 4>think with ADHD, it's an outcome. It is procrastinating from that.

963
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.559
<v Speaker 4>But then this also, which is my interests, the cause

964
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.400
<v Speaker 4>that where it starts. So it's a there's two different

965
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:33.199
<v Speaker 4>you know which way you look at it. But if

966
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:36.599
<v Speaker 4>nothing else from today's show, I hope your listeners realize

967
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:40.559
<v Speaker 4>that everybody procrastinates, all right, And that doesn't make you

968
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:43.239
<v Speaker 4>a procrastinator. You told me you had lots of people

969
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:46.320
<v Speaker 4>asking questions. I would bet if we look closer, for

970
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:49.119
<v Speaker 4>many of these people, they're just delaying a task or two.

971
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:52.480
<v Speaker 4>And that's okay. You know. Look, if I'm a manager,

972
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.880
<v Speaker 4>I want to delay why because I want information from

973
00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:59.800
<v Speaker 4>my employees give me before not just jump into a decision.

974
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:03.239
<v Speaker 4>That's not good effective, good decision making. You need some

975
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:06.000
<v Speaker 4>time to think. Sure, But the question is if you

976
00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:08.559
<v Speaker 4>have another focus group and another focus group and let's

977
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:10.559
<v Speaker 4>do another one now again, that's the problem.

978
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:13.800
<v Speaker 2>That's excessive. Elliott Alder, first time question, asker awesome questions.

979
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:16.480
<v Speaker 2>I know, right, How do you tell the difference between

980
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:19.519
<v Speaker 2>procrastination and not having enough spoons for the task at

981
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:22.679
<v Speaker 2>that moment? Like, how do you know whether or not

982
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:25.360
<v Speaker 2>you really are overloaded or whether or not you're procrastinating.

983
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:29.400
<v Speaker 4>Think of this as a continuum, and so there could

984
00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:31.519
<v Speaker 4>be a moment where you have many spoons, a lot

985
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:33.679
<v Speaker 4>of irons in the fire. As they say, there could

986
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:36.280
<v Speaker 4>be a lot going on. But the question is are

987
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:39.320
<v Speaker 4>there always irons in the fire? You asked about treatment.

988
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.159
<v Speaker 4>One simple way is to delegate gives the task to

989
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:44.519
<v Speaker 4>somebody else. But if you have too much to do,

990
00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:47.760
<v Speaker 4>trust that someone else can do this for you, that

991
00:53:47.800 --> 00:53:52.239
<v Speaker 4>you've mentored along or that's skilled enough. And well, they fail, maybe,

992
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:54.639
<v Speaker 4>but if they succeed eight out of ten eighty percent

993
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:57.880
<v Speaker 4>of the time, be happy with that. Don't harp on

994
00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:02.239
<v Speaker 4>the fact that they fail twice. Feed at eight. So

995
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:04.239
<v Speaker 4>if you have too many irons in the fire, too

996
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:06.960
<v Speaker 4>many spoons that you have to feed and do that,

997
00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:11.239
<v Speaker 4>consider what you have to do. And again, prioritizing is fine.

998
00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:16.880
<v Speaker 4>That's not the same as procrastinating. You're not structuring your procrastination.

999
00:54:17.320 --> 00:54:20.679
<v Speaker 4>You are simply learning to prioritize. Procrastinator is a very

1000
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:26.360
<v Speaker 4>bad ad judging time. They either underestimate or overestimate. They're

1001
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:29.000
<v Speaker 4>very good. So another technique is to help them learn

1002
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:31.239
<v Speaker 4>to practice time, not to read a watch. Of course

1003
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:33.840
<v Speaker 4>they can do that, but we're telling them practice how

1004
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:37.199
<v Speaker 4>much time something's going to take and more or less. Again,

1005
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:40.920
<v Speaker 4>this person might be saying, I have lots of spoons

1006
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:44.559
<v Speaker 4>to use. Well do you always find that? Are you

1007
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:47.000
<v Speaker 4>good at judging the time? Life is full of peak

1008
00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:50.159
<v Speaker 4>periods in times we need to reward people for me

1009
00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:53.400
<v Speaker 4>is another suggestion we need to reward people who meet

1010
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.199
<v Speaker 4>the deadlines. So again, if you're a manager and you

1011
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.639
<v Speaker 4>have a department twenty people, thirty people, you know, and

1012
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:01.239
<v Speaker 4>you say I need this report done. We need to

1013
00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:05.400
<v Speaker 4>get the Snyder report done by uh March fifteenth, all right,

1014
00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:07.639
<v Speaker 4>but if you get it to me to look at

1015
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.599
<v Speaker 4>a March first, everybody gets that Friday off. Got see

1016
00:55:11.639 --> 00:55:12.599
<v Speaker 4>an incentives again.

1017
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:15.639
<v Speaker 2>Now, This next question, or a variation of it, was

1018
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:19.039
<v Speaker 2>asked by Julie bear Eva and Genessa about whether or

1019
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:22.400
<v Speaker 2>not it's better to dangle a reward in front of

1020
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:26.360
<v Speaker 2>your own face or to swat your butt mercilessly.

1021
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:28.800
<v Speaker 3>So that's the caret and not the stick as they Oh.

1022
00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:31.400
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, we do too much punishing. We don't do enough reward.

1023
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:36.159
<v Speaker 2>Kendra Niedercorn asks first time question asker, how come when

1024
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:38.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm procrastinating other tasks I don't want to do see

1025
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:41.280
<v Speaker 2>more appealing, like cleaning my kitchen when I should be

1026
00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:42.199
<v Speaker 2>doing my taxes.

1027
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:44.199
<v Speaker 3>What's happening? Is it like a dope?

1028
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:49.000
<v Speaker 4>Corresponses No, No, we're turning the bio again. No, not necessary.

1029
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:51.280
<v Speaker 4>We don't know, And if it is bio, it's much

1030
00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:54.880
<v Speaker 4>more correlational than causal. They correlate, and it doesn't mean

1031
00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:58.480
<v Speaker 4>once causing the other. A very common mistake people make

1032
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:01.480
<v Speaker 4>is they take correlation and they make it causal. Okay,

1033
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:04.880
<v Speaker 4>so yes, of course you're doing something that's more fun

1034
00:56:06.079 --> 00:56:08.519
<v Speaker 4>than something that's not fun. But how on the other hand,

1035
00:56:08.679 --> 00:56:11.239
<v Speaker 4>you may be doing a task. They both need to

1036
00:56:11.239 --> 00:56:13.360
<v Speaker 4>be done. You've got to do the taxes, you've got

1037
00:56:13.400 --> 00:56:16.280
<v Speaker 4>to do the dishes. So it's logical. It's not illogical

1038
00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:18.719
<v Speaker 4>to be born illogical. Sure, I need to do that,

1039
00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:21.480
<v Speaker 4>but at some point there's a deadline where the taxes

1040
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:23.760
<v Speaker 4>have to be done and you need to pull that

1041
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:25.000
<v Speaker 4>together and work it together.

1042
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Ferrari then produced a small weekly calendar, the days

1043
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:34.320
<v Speaker 2>filled up with Harry notes and tasks, each task scratched

1044
00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:38.039
<v Speaker 2>off deeply in the tight zigzags of ballpoint. Ink.

1045
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:40.800
<v Speaker 4>I'm old fashioned. This is going to blow you away.

1046
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:44.159
<v Speaker 4>I write them down and some weeks away, so I

1047
00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:47.880
<v Speaker 4>write that in pencil. Work on the taxes, so I

1048
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:51.639
<v Speaker 4>think I have that down on Saturday. Work on taxes

1049
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:53.880
<v Speaker 4>next Sunday. So I put down a few times so

1050
00:56:53.960 --> 00:56:56.719
<v Speaker 4>I can do that. But sometimes it's even crazier. I

1051
00:56:56.800 --> 00:57:00.760
<v Speaker 4>prefer this much better than putting it down because I

1052
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:03.480
<v Speaker 4>can get to much more things that are done this way.

1053
00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:03.920
<v Speaker 3>Nice.

1054
00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:06.280
<v Speaker 2>And I love that when you're crossing things off, you're

1055
00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:09.199
<v Speaker 2>not just crossing it off, you are obliterating it, like

1056
00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:12.239
<v Speaker 2>perhaps your ped marks are Like is that is there

1057
00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:14.519
<v Speaker 2>something that's rewarding about like, yes, I got it done,

1058
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:17.760
<v Speaker 2>like scratching it off, like it's out there.

1059
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:22.760
<v Speaker 4>There's a new body of literature call procrastination, people who

1060
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:24.760
<v Speaker 4>like to do things ahead of the time. Yeah. And

1061
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:28.079
<v Speaker 4>then I may fall more under that because yes, because

1062
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:30.440
<v Speaker 4>I only don't write it here. I have a calendar

1063
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:34.079
<v Speaker 4>in my office and in my work office there's a

1064
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:36.039
<v Speaker 4>calendar by the desk, and when I turn it.

1065
00:57:36.039 --> 00:57:38.039
<v Speaker 3>Around, yeah, because another calendar.

1066
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:39.440
<v Speaker 4>So I make sure I have it in both.

1067
00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:39.840
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1068
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:42.960
<v Speaker 3>But that's great because the reward is you get to

1069
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:43.519
<v Speaker 3>cross it off.

1070
00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:45.119
<v Speaker 4>I get to cross it off each time. Yeah.

1071
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:46.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean sometimes people put things on there to do

1072
00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:48.480
<v Speaker 2>list already did, just so they can cross it off.

1073
00:57:48.760 --> 00:57:52.519
<v Speaker 4>It feels amazing. That's kind of what else we have.

1074
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:53.320
<v Speaker 3>Last questions?

1075
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:57.480
<v Speaker 2>I always ask everyone, Uh, the the crappiest thing about

1076
00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:59.880
<v Speaker 2>your job, the thing you hate about procrastination, the most

1077
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.519
<v Speaker 2>thing you hate about your work, But the thing that

1078
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:05.639
<v Speaker 2>just irks you, the worst thing about what you do,

1079
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:08.199
<v Speaker 2>or the thing you hate the most about procrastination or people.

1080
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:10.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the thing I hate about procrastination is people not

1081
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:13.400
<v Speaker 4>taking this as a serious problem. You asked me earlier,

1082
00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:16.320
<v Speaker 4>do I have empathy for the people who are chronic procrastinators?

1083
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:18.719
<v Speaker 4>And the answer is yes. And I think our society,

1084
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:24.519
<v Speaker 4>by not taking it seriously, cheapens it makes it less

1085
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:26.360
<v Speaker 4>of a serious kind of thing, and I think that's

1086
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:30.360
<v Speaker 4>not fair. I think it was Al Green who came

1087
00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:35.239
<v Speaker 4>up with a line. There's a song Sexual Healing said

1088
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.519
<v Speaker 4>if you listen to the very last as a song

1089
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:51.280
<v Speaker 4>fades off, wait one, it says, don't procrastinate. And it's

1090
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:53.840
<v Speaker 4>the only time I ever heard that word used. Then

1091
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:57.119
<v Speaker 4>there was a singer I forgot her name after my

1092
00:58:57.199 --> 00:59:01.719
<v Speaker 4>generation who has a song called procrastination. Lizzo No, no, no,

1093
00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:03.679
<v Speaker 4>she killed herself.

1094
00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:06.679
<v Speaker 3>Oh Amy Winehouse.

1095
00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:08.960
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I think she had a song called procrastity.

1096
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:10.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, I'll look it up and.

1097
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:17.079
<v Speaker 4>Jubbing.

1098
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:24.159
<v Speaker 2>So this leaked song is titled Procrastination. It's on YouTube.

1099
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:27.880
<v Speaker 2>It's said to be about Amy Winehouse's trouble writing songs

1100
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:31.719
<v Speaker 2>after her debut album, and apparently she titled the song Procrastinate,

1101
00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:35.079
<v Speaker 2>and it, along with about a dozen other tracks, are

1102
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:38.239
<v Speaker 2>to remain in the vault. She wanted them unreleased in

1103
00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:41.159
<v Speaker 2>the event of her death. Also, the official cause of

1104
00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:45.679
<v Speaker 2>death was accidental alcohol overdose, which is tragic and gutting.

1105
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:49.880
<v Speaker 2>And for more on addiction see the Addictionology episode. Also,

1106
00:59:50.000 --> 00:59:52.920
<v Speaker 2>as long as we're clarifying things, sexual healing is a

1107
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Marvin Gaye song. And I know that you were just furious,

1108
00:59:55.880 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 2>some of you thinking I'm just gonna leave that hanging

1109
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.719
<v Speaker 2>out there, but I know when you get feeling you

1110
01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:05.639
<v Speaker 2>need factual dealings. Anyway, Procrastination is in the hearts and

1111
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:08.199
<v Speaker 2>on the lips of so many artists.

1112
01:00:07.880 --> 01:00:10.960
<v Speaker 4>But it's not procrastination. But I just love that that's

1113
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:15.239
<v Speaker 4>not procrassi sexual healing. So what do I hate that

1114
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:17.960
<v Speaker 4>after all these years that I've been talking about this

1115
01:00:18.039 --> 01:00:22.079
<v Speaker 4>in the media, the conference presentations, that people will put

1116
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:24.320
<v Speaker 4>me at the end of conferences when I talk because

1117
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:28.719
<v Speaker 4>you're on procrastination. Yes, that we don't take it seriously

1118
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:33.280
<v Speaker 4>as a culture, that it's more than a time management issue.

1119
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:37.000
<v Speaker 4>It's a maladaptive lifestyle. For twenty percent of people more

1120
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:41.079
<v Speaker 4>than depression. And I'm not dis depression. It's a very

1121
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:46.320
<v Speaker 4>serious issue. Substance abuse and alcoholism very serious. We treat

1122
01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:49.320
<v Speaker 4>those very seriously, as we should, and we should really

1123
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:54.079
<v Speaker 4>treat the chronic procrastination be careful. So I don't like that.

1124
01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:57.400
<v Speaker 4>I think people still think it's time management issues because

1125
01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:59.559
<v Speaker 4>it's a socially acceptable kind of thing.

1126
01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:01.440
<v Speaker 3>But that's and that's great.

1127
01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean when we were writing back and forth, you

1128
01:01:03.880 --> 01:01:04.800
<v Speaker 2>were like, don't.

1129
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.079
<v Speaker 3>Make life, yes, and I was like, oh no, this.

1130
01:01:07.000 --> 01:01:09.559
<v Speaker 4>Is and then you had self disclosed beause not looking

1131
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:09.760
<v Speaker 4>for you.

1132
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:11.000
<v Speaker 3>I didn't care.

1133
01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:13.800
<v Speaker 4>This is I want to have videos and I saw

1134
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:17.519
<v Speaker 4>kind of comical, funny things and I thought she's going

1135
01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:20.280
<v Speaker 4>to set me up for something, and this is not

1136
01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:20.880
<v Speaker 4>a funny thing.

1137
01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:23.639
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm like, this is literally the thing in my life.

1138
01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I have a list of things that I want to

1139
01:01:25.440 --> 01:01:29.960
<v Speaker 2>accomplish in my life, not even a little bit joking. True,

1140
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:33.800
<v Speaker 2>the goal conquered procrastination is at the top of that list,

1141
01:01:33.880 --> 01:01:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and I want to scratch it off so hard that

1142
01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:39.119
<v Speaker 2>the pen rips the paper. And so should procrastinators have

1143
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:41.599
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more self compassion, a little bit more like, hey,

1144
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:42.559
<v Speaker 2>don't be so hard on yourself.

1145
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.320
<v Speaker 4>Another good topic for you to interview. There's a research

1146
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:48.519
<v Speaker 4>I forgot her book. There's a great book, self help book.

1147
01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:50.960
<v Speaker 4>Forgot the author's name on self compassion.

1148
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Look this up and he's talking about self compassion expert

1149
01:01:54.480 --> 01:01:58.039
<v Speaker 2>and Austin based psychology professor doctor Kristin Neff. I felt

1150
01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:01.519
<v Speaker 2>so stupid because I got her confused with shame expert

1151
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Brene Brown.

1152
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:03.480
<v Speaker 3>And then I went to.

1153
01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Nef's website self dashcompassion dot org, did a little

1154
01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:09.199
<v Speaker 2>poking around, and I was like, you know what, hey, Ward,

1155
01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:12.760
<v Speaker 2>It's okay. You got those two researchers confused. You are

1156
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:15.960
<v Speaker 2>a fleshy vessel of meat and matter. You're not an

1157
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.519
<v Speaker 2>information Kiosk, Kit, Barnes and Noble. So thanks doctor Kristin f.

1158
01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:22.480
<v Speaker 4>And she weaves a lot of social personality psychology in it.

1159
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:27.239
<v Speaker 4>People need to forgive themselves. It's much easier for us

1160
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:30.119
<v Speaker 4>to forgive other people than it is ourselves. Yeah, and

1161
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:31.599
<v Speaker 4>that's a tendency people have.

1162
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:32.360
<v Speaker 3>Last question.

1163
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:35.719
<v Speaker 2>I always ask last question, Yes, what's your favorite thing

1164
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:36.360
<v Speaker 2>about your job?

1165
01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:39.679
<v Speaker 4>The exciting part of being an academic a faculty member

1166
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.840
<v Speaker 4>is you can ask questions and get answers, and I

1167
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:47.280
<v Speaker 4>love making me think. Now. I love working with my students.

1168
01:02:47.800 --> 01:02:51.280
<v Speaker 4>The joy bringing them to a conference and having them present.

1169
01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:53.559
<v Speaker 4>Can't tell you the joy of that. You just said,

1170
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:56.639
<v Speaker 4>that's the job. It's not the money. Well that's nice,

1171
01:02:56.679 --> 01:02:58.519
<v Speaker 4>but it's not the money. It's not the time, it's

1172
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:03.440
<v Speaker 4>not the schedule. It's seeing the next generation rise. That's

1173
01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:04.280
<v Speaker 4>just beforic.

1174
01:03:05.159 --> 01:03:06.920
<v Speaker 2>And just think of all the people that are going

1175
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:08.639
<v Speaker 2>to be studying this and that are interested in this.

1176
01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Hopeels of you.

1177
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:12.519
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I hope that your listeners contact me if they're interested.

1178
01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:14.760
<v Speaker 3>Read your book first. What's the name of that book.

1179
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:15.679
<v Speaker 3>It's called Still.

1180
01:03:15.480 --> 01:03:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Procrastinating, The No Regrets Guide to Getting It Done by

1181
01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:18.559
<v Speaker 2>doctor Joseph Ferrari, PhD.

1182
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:20.079
<v Speaker 4>Yes, great book.

1183
01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:23.880
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, yes, of course, thank you so much for

1184
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:27.039
<v Speaker 3>doing this. You're amazing. You need your own television show.

1185
01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.199
<v Speaker 3>Can you get your own television show? Please?

1186
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:30.400
<v Speaker 4>That's fine with me.

1187
01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:36.000
<v Speaker 2>So ask experts and smart people's stupid questions and know

1188
01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:39.239
<v Speaker 2>that there are actually not stupid questions. That is an

1189
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:44.679
<v Speaker 2>ironic statement. Also, have compassion for yourself, celebrate your own curiosity, and,

1190
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:48.320
<v Speaker 2>as doctor Ferrari inscribed in My Now Dog eared copy

1191
01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:51.719
<v Speaker 2>of Still Procrastinating, The No Regrets Guide to Getting It Done,

1192
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Just Do It Now. So that book is available wherever

1193
01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:56.360
<v Speaker 2>you get books, and I'll put a link in the

1194
01:03:56.400 --> 01:03:58.559
<v Speaker 2>show notes as well as links to a lot of

1195
01:03:58.599 --> 01:04:00.559
<v Speaker 2>the things that we discussed in this episode. Up at

1196
01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:07.079
<v Speaker 2>aliward dot com slash ologies slash procrastination because volitional psychology

1197
01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:09.039
<v Speaker 2>is too hard to spell and the last thing you

1198
01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:11.960
<v Speaker 2>need is a harder time getting to those resources. So

1199
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:15.119
<v Speaker 2>we're at ologies on Instagram and Twitter. I'm at ali

1200
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Ward with one L on both. Come say hi, I

1201
01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:20.800
<v Speaker 2>be friends. Shirts and hats and beanies and toads are

1202
01:04:20.840 --> 01:04:24.239
<v Speaker 2>available at ologiesmerch dot com or up at aliward dot com.

1203
01:04:24.280 --> 01:04:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Shannon Feltis and the recently engaged Bonnie Dutch.

1204
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:31.639
<v Speaker 2>Congrats Joe of the podcast. You are that for a

1205
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:36.079
<v Speaker 2>managing merch Aaron Telberd admin's Theologies podcast Facebook group, and

1206
01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:39.559
<v Speaker 2>huge thanks to Emily White and all the transcribers making

1207
01:04:39.599 --> 01:04:42.639
<v Speaker 2>transcripts available. They are blazing through them. They're so many

1208
01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:45.159
<v Speaker 2>up and they're so helpful, And I'm going to put

1209
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:46.480
<v Speaker 2>a link in the show notes where you can get

1210
01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:49.599
<v Speaker 2>those for free. They're on my website at Aliward dot com.

1211
01:04:49.679 --> 01:04:52.039
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to Jared Sleeper of the mental health podcast

1212
01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:54.599
<v Speaker 2>My Good Bad Brain for assistant editing. Also, if you

1213
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:57.679
<v Speaker 2>liked the traumatology episode with doctor Nick Barr, he and

1214
01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:01.719
<v Speaker 2>Jarrett are now doing free week mental health live streams

1215
01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:04.360
<v Speaker 2>on Sundays at ten am Pacific time. I live tweeted

1216
01:05:04.360 --> 01:05:07.480
<v Speaker 2>it last week at Theologies Twitter and it's on mixer

1217
01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:09.199
<v Speaker 2>dot com slash My Good Bad Brain, and I'm going

1218
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:10.800
<v Speaker 2>to put a link in the show notes for that too,

1219
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:12.679
<v Speaker 2>because it was really great and I think you might

1220
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.320
<v Speaker 2>like it. Also, thanks, of course, as always to Stephen

1221
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:18.559
<v Speaker 2>Ray Morris of the podcast see Jurassic Wright and the

1222
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:20.960
<v Speaker 2>per cast for putting these together each week with me

1223
01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:24.159
<v Speaker 2>and bearing with my fears of just not being enough.

1224
01:05:24.480 --> 01:05:26.599
<v Speaker 2>He is a saint and I'm working on being faster

1225
01:05:26.800 --> 01:05:30.360
<v Speaker 2>for my sake and for his. He's the best. Nick

1226
01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Thorburn wrote and performed the theme music. And if you

1227
01:05:33.119 --> 01:05:35.440
<v Speaker 2>listen until the end of the episode, you know I

1228
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:37.599
<v Speaker 2>tell you secret. And this week is that I just

1229
01:05:37.719 --> 01:05:40.599
<v Speaker 2>realized I was in a sound booth doing some voiceover

1230
01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:42.559
<v Speaker 2>stuff and yes, if you heard me on a grocery

1231
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:45.800
<v Speaker 2>store ad, that is me. And I realized it between

1232
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:49.000
<v Speaker 2>takes that if you take a regular pencil like one

1233
01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>of those Dixon taekwonder rogas you know that has like

1234
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:55.440
<v Speaker 2>the non roly sides, and you rub it between your palms. Ready,

1235
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:59.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna do it. This is hell a smr. Okay.

1236
01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:12.960
<v Speaker 5>Ready if you do this, kay, sounds like a cat burry.

1237
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm more of a dog person. But if you ever

1238
01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:19.239
<v Speaker 2>miss your cat or you need to be soothed, you

1239
01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:23.360
<v Speaker 2>can try that.

1240
01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:25.800
<v Speaker 5>That weird, it's just a bed.

1241
01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So that's fine. You're welcome by Pacodermic College Mombiology

1242
01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:47.400
<v Speaker 2>or do zoology, Lithology, New Technology, meteorologyology, menthology, seriologyology,