WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.679 There's a little brew haha happening in the city of Clovis, California, 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:08.919 and I want to talk about it because I think 3 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:13.039 it could have an impact on the state. More broadly, 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:18.079 I think other local governments should think about this, and 5 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:25.280 I think it impacts the national immigration issue. It has 6 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:33.000 to do with whether or not local police, local sheriffs 7 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:41.479 can or should declare themselves to not be a sanctuary jurisdiction. 8 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:45.759 Should local cities or county governments declare themselves not to 9 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:51.679 be a sanctuary jurisdiction and declare that they're not going 10 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:58.560 to follow California's various sanctuary state laws. All right, So 11 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.039 let's I want to step back and explain all these things. 12 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.120 What does it mean when California says that it is 13 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:13.879 a sanctuary state? Okay, so what it means is that 14 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:19.879 local police and let's remember this basic principle when you 15 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:24.519 talk about local governments or county governments or city governments whatever. 16 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.640 All county government, all city government is a creation of 17 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:34.280 state government. If the state says x, the county and 18 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.400 the city have to do it. There's no kind of 19 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:40.400 separate autonomy that local governments or county the city governments 20 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:45.599 or county governments have from state governments. Okay, it's different from, say, 21 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:48.439 the relationship between a state government and the federal government. 22 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.680 The state and the Feds are two different sovereigns that 23 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:58.640 we live under, and each has its rights individually and 24 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:02.599 has its visual spheres of autonomy separate from the other. 25 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.319 Not so with local governments. Local governments are total creations 26 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:13.599 of state government. So if state law says X, generally speaking, 27 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:16.439 local governments have to agree with it, have to follow it. 28 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:27.919 What is California's sanctuary state law. California's Sanctuary State Law 29 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:33.520 aka the California Values Act, which was signed into law 30 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.759 passed in twenty seventeen, went into effect in twenty eighteen 31 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:43.840 under Jerry Brown. Basically, what it does is it limits 32 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:51.080 the ability of state and local law enforcement to cooperate 33 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:55.039 with federal immigration Well, excuse I should say, limits their 34 00:02:55.080 --> 00:03:00.879 ability to communicate, share information, cooperate with federal immigration enforcement. 35 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:04.800 Now there's some extent to which they can communicate with 36 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.719 federal immigration enforcement. For example, they can tip them off 37 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:13.879 if someone who has committed a serious felony, someone convicted 38 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:18.080 of a serious felony is about to be released from prison, 39 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:23.080 but that's it. It doesn't seem to me that it 40 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.159 doesn't allow for police on the front end to say, hey, 41 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:29.599 we just picked up this guy in a raid. He's 42 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:31.599 not even supposed to be, you know, in a gang 43 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:33.960 raid or a drug raid or something. We just picked 44 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.879 up this guy. We don't think he's even supposed to 45 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.439 be in the country legally. Why don't you guys just 46 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:49.479 come pick him up Ice. So basically our sanctuary state law, 47 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:55.360 it limits the ability of local police to communicate with ICE, 48 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:01.960 or with I S or with the Border Patrol only 49 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:08.000 for people who have committed serious felonies. And I believe 50 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.639 from my reading of the law, and I want to 51 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:13.919 actually see if I can get someone from local law 52 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:18.399 enforcement in. It seems like it's mostly just on the 53 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:22.120 back end that after this person has been convicted of 54 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:27.160 a serious felony, then then you can let them know, 55 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:33.680 let the immigration authorities know after they're leaving. So it 56 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:36.439 says in the law law enforcement officials shall have discretion 57 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:39.920 to cooperate with immigration authorities only if doing so would 58 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:42.319 not violate any federal, state of local law or local policy, 59 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:45.399 and where permitted by the California Values Act. Additionally, the 60 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:50.240 specific activities shall only occur in the following circumstances. The 61 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:53.879 person has been convicted of a serious or violent felony, 62 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:03.240 and the person blah blah blah blah. So it's usually 63 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:05.279 it's on the back end that you can then tell 64 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:08.279 immigration authorities. But it's not on the front end where 65 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:10.480 a police officer could pick up a guy in a 66 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:13.959 drug rate. Can't just pick up a guy during a 67 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:15.959 raid and say, hey, this person shouldn't even be in 68 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:17.560 the country in the first place. Let's call Ice and 69 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:24.560 get this guy's rear end deported. Now, I think that 70 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:27.720 local law enforcement should have the discretion to do that, 71 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:34.480 to do precisely that. Diane Pearce, who's a closed city 72 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:45.079 council member things likewise, Miss Pierce noticed that the city 73 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:50.279 of Huntington Beach, California, had introduced and adopted a city 74 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:56.120 resolution declaring Huntingdon Beach to be a non sanctuary city 75 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.720 for illegal immigration for the prevention of crime. They issued 76 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:09.079 big local resolution to that effect, and they introduce this 77 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:14.240 local resolution. It's got, you know, a couple pages. It's 78 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:19.319 a couple pages long in which it lays out some 79 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:22.360 legal arguments. It actually lays out the legal arguments for 80 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:28.959 why they think California's sanctuary state law actually is in 81 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:34.519 violation of controlling federal law, and they declare their intention 82 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:38.959 to not follow the state's law and instead to follow 83 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:47.319 federal law. So there Huntington Beach is making this argument. 84 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:52.720 We understand that the California Values Act is on the books, However, 85 00:06:53.519 --> 00:07:00.399 we don't think it's legal basically the way the Supreme 86 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:05.040 Court has interpreted a lot of federal immigration law. I 87 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:08.879 don't know that this was originally the case at the 88 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.360 time of the founding, but this is sort of what 89 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.560 the Supreme Court has decided a lot of controlling Supreme 90 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:18.759 Court President basically just says that the federal government is 91 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:23.000 in control of immigration matters, and there is federal law 92 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:28.360 on the books that would seem to me. Again, I 93 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:33.839 haven't read into it super in depth. I'm not you know, 94 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:36.000 I'm not claiming to be an expert on this area 95 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:37.800 of law, but there does seem to me to be 96 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:42.800 some federal statutes on the books that contradict what the 97 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:48.639 state of California is doing. So the statute that Huntingdon 98 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:52.240 Beach sites that I think is most relevant is eight USC. 99 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:00.720 Thirteen seventy three eight United States Code thirteen seventy three, 100 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:07.319 which says, notwithstanding any other provision of federal state of 101 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.319 local law, a federal, state or local government entity or 102 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:15.199 official may not prohibit or in any way restrict any 103 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:19.759 government entity or official from sending, two or receiving from 104 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:24.480 the Immigration and Naturalization Service information regarding the citizenship or 105 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:31.040 immigration status lawful or unlawful of any individual. No person 106 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.519 or agency may prohibit or in any way restrict a 107 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:36.240 federal state of local government entity from doing any of 108 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:39.240 the following with respect to information regarding the immigration status 109 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.360 lawful or unlawful of any individual. One sending such information, 110 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.679 two or requesting or receiving such information from the Immigration 111 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:51.559 and Naturalization Service, two, maintaining such information, three exchanging such 112 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:58.559 information with any other federal, state of local government entity. 113 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:04.240 So you've got at least this one federal law on 114 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:08.399 the books that to me kind of looks like it's 115 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:12.320 flatly contradicting California state law. Now, I'll admit that I 116 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:15.480 haven't done a really deep dive on this. Maybe I'm 117 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:22.240 I'm missing something here, but here's this federal law. Several 118 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:27.759 different federal statutes that would seem to say no, local governments, 119 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:34.360 state governments cannot restrict local and state government officials from 120 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:42.360 communicating with the Immigration and Naturalization Service. They're just not allowed. 121 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:49.200 Just that you're not allowed to restrict it. I mean, 122 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:52.360 I I think there's some kind of an issue there. 123 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:55.879 I mean, I guess I find it find it odd 124 00:09:55.919 --> 00:10:00.039 to think and the city resolution, the resolution by the 125 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.679 City of Huntington Beach, sites other legal arguments, et cetera. 126 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:11.360 All Right, So Diane Pierce raises this question on her 127 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.000 She has like a Facebook page, and she raises it 128 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:19.639 on there. Hey, do you guys think that Clovis should 129 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:23.480 declare itself not to be a sanctuary city? Should Clovis 130 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:30.159 police work with the I n S? Or should Clovis 131 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:38.039 police operate in communication with ICE and with other immigration authorities? 132 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:40.320 Should we allow them to do that? Should we declare 133 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:45.120 that we're going to sidestep state government? Now this seems 134 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:49.399 to immediately be the dynamic on the city council and 135 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:52.000 in Clovis, And I think it's a dynamic in a 136 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.600 lot of places, and it's a dynamic that I hate. 137 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:59.639 It's a Jerry Dyer dynamic. It's a dynamic of a 138 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:04.919 lot of local government officials who basically, at the mere 139 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.840 mention of some kind of broader conservative idea, put their 140 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:14.480 tails between their legs and run away. You know, here's Clovis. 141 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.399 I don't know how familiar all of you listeners are 142 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:21.240 with Clovis, but I don't think I'm breaking any great 143 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:24.639 news to you to say Clovis is a really conservative city. 144 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:28.600 It's a heavily Republican city. I don't know the breakdown 145 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:35.679 Trump to Trump to Harris, but I have my suspicions 146 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:41.799 that it was overwhelmingly pro Trump. All five of our 147 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:48.120 city council members are at least in name, Republicans, run 148 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:54.440 as Republicans. I deeply suspect at least one, if not 149 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:59.000 several of them are actually not very conservative at all. 150 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.360 But one of the things that I keep seeing as 151 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:06.399 soon as Diane Pierce joined the city council, it really 152 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:10.919 shook things up. She used her platform to bring attention 153 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:15.639 to the ridiculous stuff that was going on within Fresno 154 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:19.720 County libraries. Because she goes to the Clovis Library and says, hey, 155 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.759 look at all these books that are you know, borderline 156 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.559 pornographic that are on the shelves here for you know 157 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:33.600 a seven year old to grab. She raises that question, 158 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.720 and immediately all of her colleagues on the city council think, 159 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:40.320 how horrible it is, How horrible. Oh, that's not something 160 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:42.759 that we deal with on the Clover City Council. That's 161 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.360 county government responsibility. Why are you doing that? Are you? 162 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.480 Why are you making this such a divisive issue. Well, oh, 163 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.440 you're making people who work for city government feel uncomfortable, 164 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.720 to which I would respond, and most Clovis citizens I 165 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.440 know who are politically engaged, by the way, would have responded. 166 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:10.080 I really appreciate Diane Pierce bringing attention to this. I 167 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:13.200 appreciate the fact that she then proceeded to bring this 168 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.960 to the attention of the County Board of Supervisors in 169 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:18.159 a way that a local government official can that maybe 170 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:24.080 I can't. It resulted in Steve Brandau introducing his Library's Bill, 171 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:28.840 which unfortunately got preempted by state law. But she actually 172 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:32.960 did something about it. She noticed something bad and used 173 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.559 the platform she has as a city government official to 174 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.679 make a big to do something about it, propose a 175 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:44.600 city council resolution saying that the County Board of Supervisors 176 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:50.559 should do something about it, and both then and now 177 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.000 you have foot dragging from other members of the Clover 178 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:57.120 City Council. So now it's Drew Bessinger, who's a Clovis 179 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:03.279 City Council member, who proceeds to say, we can't, we 180 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.519 can't declare ourselves not to be sanctuaries. And now this 181 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:09.200 is as reported by Diane. Diane reported it very kindly 182 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.879 and didn't have anything negative to say about mister Besseinger. 183 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:17.759 She just said, you know, my friend Drew Bessinger says 184 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:19.600 that he doesn't think this is a good idea and 185 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:21.440 that this is not really something that we could do. 186 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:26.720 I disagree. So Diane was very kind and respectful to him. 187 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.279 I am not going to be so kind. I am 188 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.679 tired of Clovis City Council members and local government figures 189 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.440 throughout the San Joaquin Valley, whether that's Jerry Dyer or whoever, 190 00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:46.159 taking these sort of I guess I'm gonna call it 191 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:51.519 classical liberal or almost Rollsian approach to government, that the 192 00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:57.799 work of local government is just fixing roads and hiring cops, 193 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:04.440 and that there's no like great d ethical framework in 194 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:08.559 which they operate, that big decisions of right and wrong 195 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:14.039 just aren't really the domain of local government officials in 196 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.720 the San Joaquin Valley. No, no, no, that's a state question. 197 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:19.639 We shouldn't We just shouldn't get involved. That it's gonna 198 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:22.759 lead to a lot of people. It's gonna lead to 199 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:25.960 a lot of ill feeling and disagreement. And that's not 200 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:32.120 what the city council's about. Because they've accepted a certain 201 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.759 sort of framework of looking at the world. They're goldfish 202 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:39.679 thinking that the whole universe is only the parameters of 203 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.919 their goldfish bowl. And here's Diane saying, hey, maybe there's 204 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.720 something more here. Okay, we're just accepting that state law 205 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:52.039 says X, therefore we're gonna accept X. Well, maybe state law. 206 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:57.519 Maybe the law passed by California is itself violative of 207 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:03.240 federal law. The Supreme Court has been very open to 208 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.480 the idea of immigration being exclusively the domain of the 209 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:10.960 federal government. Now, I'll admit maybe there's some sticky legal 210 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:15.559 issues between you know, what, can the Feds tell state 211 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.000 governments to do? Can Feds tell state governments not to 212 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:23.919 tell local governments what to do? Does federal law here 213 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:29.240 completely preempt any state efforts to insert itself into federal law? 214 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:36.799 I think it raises some interesting legal questions when we return, 215 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.159 what would it actually cost the City of Clovis to 216 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:45.840 declare itself not a sanctuary city. Next on the John 217 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.399 Girardi Show, the city of Huntington Beach, California declared itself 218 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.720 not a sanctuary city, said they would not follow certain 219 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.759 provisions of the California Values Act. They say, they try 220 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.879 to argue that federal law coulds in this area, and 221 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:05.039 there's federal law in the books that says state and 222 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:09.759 local jurisdictions cannot prohibit state and local officials from communicating 223 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:13.720 with I N S. They say, Hey, we think federal 224 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:19.119 law controls here. The proposals put forward to the City 225 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.519 of Clovis by City City of Clovis council member Diane Pierce, 226 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:28.359 who is the mayor pro tem Clovis, passes the mayor 227 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:31.359 title around to all the different members of the city council. 228 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.599 It just basically Clovis doesn't have like a strong mayor 229 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.160 like Fresno does. It's just basically a title you run 230 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.640 the meetings. Basically you're just a member of the city 231 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:44.400 council anyway. So Diane Pierce is introduced, has floated this idea. 232 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:48.519 She hasn't formally introduced anything, but she's floated this idea of, hey, 233 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:53.000 should the City of Clovis join Huntington Beach and declare 234 00:17:53.039 --> 00:18:02.119 itself not to be a sanctuary city, and immediately is 235 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:07.200 met with no, no, no, that's not the City of 236 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:13.000 Clovis's responsibility or state law controls here. And we came 237 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.000 and that's not what It's just going to create a 238 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:20.799 bunch of ill feeling and all right, this is the 239 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:24.400 response that her city council members, her city council colleagues 240 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:31.480 are giving her. Now, what would it act? Now? I 241 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:33.519 would disagree with this on a number of fronts. One 242 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.599 one of the actual key responsibilities of city government. Local 243 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:44.000 government is policing. And I guarantee you if police, as 244 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:48.480 they're picking up bad guys, could you know, as they're 245 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:52.680 picking up a bunch of bad guy, low life drug 246 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.440 ye gang members in a raid, if they could just 247 00:18:56.480 --> 00:18:58.720 do a little check on this guy's immigration status and 248 00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:01.440 call up ICE, the world would be a better place 249 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.359 if they had the freedom and latitude to do that. 250 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:17.119 It would be a good thing. Guarantee it now that so, 251 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:22.400 at first I reject the contention from some of the 252 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:24.279 folks on the Clover City Council who seem to be 253 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:26.519 dragging their feet on this that well, those are really 254 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:29.400 city responsibility. Well it is kind of part of your 255 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.599 city responsibility. It would make one of these core functions 256 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.759 of city government work better if City of Clovis police 257 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:41.559 could interact with the immigration authorities. Now, maybe we condition 258 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.000 it internally within the police department in a way or 259 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:45.839 within the city council in a way that makes it fair. 260 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:51.880 They say, hey, you have the latitude, if you've under 261 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.799 certain conditions where you have some sort of greater assurance 262 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.559 of guilt or something or blah blah whatever, then you 263 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.799 contact immigration authorities. Again, I think it's a straw man 264 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.400 to think that City of Clovis police would all of 265 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.240 a sudden just be pulling over any group of Mexicans 266 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.240 in a truck to try to check and see if 267 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.039 they're in the country legally or not, and deport them 268 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.440 if they aren't. I would say it makes tons of 269 00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.480 sense though, in the context of criminal law enforcement. You know, 270 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.920 you're busting up a drug ring or a gang. You're 271 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:32.079 doing a gang sting operation. Hey, you've got this guy 272 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.720 who's maybe has a prior criminal record. You know, call 273 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:38.839 up Ice. I think there are ways you can condition 274 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.119 it to ensure that it's really fair and really just, 275 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.559 and that you're not sending you know, you're not just 276 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.359 rounding up random groups of Mexicans or something like that. 277 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.640 If you're concerned about fairness and justice, they're okay, let's talk. 278 00:20:52.200 --> 00:21:00.960 Let's come up with a reasonable policy. Now here's the 279 00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:04.519 question the city council members are. It's oh, this is 280 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.960 just would be bad. We shouldn't do it. It's not 281 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.240 gonna work, It'll cost us money. Okay, what would it 282 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:12.480 actually cost the City of Clovis? What would it actually 283 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.160 cost the City of Clovis to say, Hey, we're gonna 284 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:19.640 join with Huntington Beach and declare ourselves also not a 285 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:26.240 sanctuary city. We'll combine our efforts with Huntington Beach in fact, 286 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:31.440 Huntington Beach Clovis, and hey, maybe maybe we get twenty 287 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.480 other Republican led cities or county governments, I mean county 288 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.359 governments could discuss this. Call up Gary Brettefeld. You think 289 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:43.359 he wouldn't want to do this. See have the Fresno 290 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.880 County Sheriff say, hey, we're not gonna be a you know, 291 00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:53.000 we're gonna communicate with I n s. We just don't 292 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.960 think that we're prohibited from doing it. So instead of 293 00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.000 just one city challenging it, let's have twenty jurisdictions challenging it. 294 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.480 Twenty cities and counties all joining together in this federal laws, 295 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.359 this hypothetical federal this hypothetical lawsuit that I'm envisioning. Because 296 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.920 of course, once Huntington Beach does this, Rob Bonta will 297 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:17.400 assuredly sue Huntington Beach. Maybe we combine the lawsuit all 298 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:23.240 of us together. That'll minimize our attorney's fees costs. If 299 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.759 we can pool our resources together, instead of one city 300 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.640 paying for all the representation or just Clothes and Huntington Beach, 301 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:36.319 have twenty cities reduce our legal costs significantly. Okay, pr costs. 302 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:40.400 Oh no, the residents of Clovis will be so upset 303 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.519 with you, Clovi City Council, that you decided to try 304 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:46.480 to sidestep this sanctuary city nonsense, which most of the 305 00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:52.319 citizens of Clothes don't like anyway. Oh, it'll lead to 306 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:57.559 ill feeling. Well, okay, I mean, the fact remains that 307 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.400 we have this four year win, have opportunity to actually 308 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:07.519 do something about illegal immigration. And I like the fact 309 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.279 that Diane Pierce is actually willing to think of a 310 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.119 creative solution to have the City of Clovis do something, 311 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.400 have Clovis pde do something. Frankly, I feel like every 312 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.680 city council should be thinking of outside the box ways 313 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:25.680 of discussing this. Look, if the legal arguments advanced by 314 00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:28.559 Huntington Beach are totally garbage, Okay, I get it. Let's 315 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:30.559 not participate if it's purely going to be a waste 316 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:33.759 of state money. Fine. And I'm not saying like, disobey, 317 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:38.680 Like if a court gives us an order saying no, 318 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.319 you may not enforce this policy until the lawsuits completed, Okay, 319 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.480 follow the order. I'm not saying, like, have the City 320 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.480 of Clovis engage in rebellion against the State of California. 321 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.480 That's not how this would work. They would announce the policy, 322 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:53.559 it would be challenged by the Attorney General, they would 323 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:57.960 have litigation. The court could order them to keep having 324 00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:59.799 the policy or not have the policy for the duration 325 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:04.119 of the litigation. We follow what the court decides, But 326 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:08.160 at the very least, like, why not push on this? 327 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.799 It just seems like it could result in a big 328 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:15.240 legal breakthrough, breaking the back of sanctuary jurisdiction law when 329 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:20.200 we return our little Rawlsian public servants in local government 330 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:25.000 in California next on the John Gerardy Show. John Rawls 331 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:31.400 is one of the most important political philosophers of our 332 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:36.039 last one hundred years or so. He was born in 333 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.599 nineteen twenty one. He died in two thousand and two, 334 00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:43.640 and his ideas of classic liberalism and progressivism have been 335 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:48.160 extremely influential, far more influential than any of you might 336 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.720 guess who aren't philosophy majors or anything. A lot of 337 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:58.799 the kind of built in assumptions to how the sort 338 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:03.599 of Obamian left things and talks and acts are coming 339 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:10.079 from Rolls. And one of the big one of Ralls's 340 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:14.240 big ideas was from his book from nineteen ninety three 341 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.839 called Political Liberalism. And he's not talking about liberal as 342 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:20.960 in modern day American left wing. He's talking about the 343 00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:26.359 classical liberal tradition. And I think in many ways he's 344 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.599 highlighting the flaws of classical liberalism. A lot of conservatives 345 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:32.759 act like, oh, I'm a classical liberal, that's what I am. 346 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.920 I think Roles sort of shows he takes classical liberalism 347 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.640 and in some ways sort of takes it to its 348 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.359 logical conclusions in ways that are not particularly satisfactory. So 349 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:49.279 one of the things he tries to do is exclude 350 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:56.920 from public debate any kind of ideas or thought that 351 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:01.559 isn't part of our accepted kind of lowest common denominator 352 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:12.960 accepted political and ethical framework. So any sort of arguments 353 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:17.359 coming from religion, if they are in any way not 354 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:23.559 agreeing with his conception of what we believe as a polity, 355 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:28.960 that gets thrown out and that that well, and this 356 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:31.920 leads you probably to ask, well, how is he defining? 357 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.839 What is he defined as our sort of accepted political reality. 358 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.759 Good question. It's basically the sort of lowest common denominator 359 00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:45.279 ethical libertarianism, freedom and equality and all these things that 360 00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:49.759 everyone sort of agrees with. But when liberals talk about freedom, equality, 361 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:54.440 et cetera, they include things like, and I use this 362 00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:58.559 example because of something I think about a lot, Liberals 363 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:01.880 would say that basic rereadom basic equality would include things 364 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.119 like legal abortion, oh, letting people have the freedom and 365 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.440 equality to make decisions about their own bodily autonomy. And 366 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:15.440 when conservatives say, well, well, no, that doesn't seem right. 367 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.480 Wouldn't you say that the unborn child is created in 368 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:21.680 the image and likeness of God? Oh? Whoa, We're not 369 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:26.279 bringing God into this. Hey, you can't be talking about God. Hey. 370 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:29.119 In our little rollsy and political universe, we can only 371 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:30.960 talk about these things that are sort of part of 372 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:36.839 our accepted public, you know, part of the public political forum. 373 00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:43.599 We have to commit ourselves to the ideal of public reason, 374 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:51.559 only debating these things in terms of reasons whose status 375 00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:55.359 as reasons is shared between ourselves. So, oh, you bring 376 00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:58.200 up God, I don't like God. I don't care all 377 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:00.200 you say about this person's made the image likeness of God. 378 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:05.319 I don't care. Or if you bring up well, there's 379 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:10.559 a fundamental dignity in human purses. WHOA, who's talking about 380 00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:14.000 fundamental dignity. No, I'm just talking about freedom and people 381 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:17.480 should be free to make their decisions and it's it's choice. 382 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:26.759 So a lot of modern day political liberalism frames itself 383 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.000 as like this is just a value neutral proposition of 384 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:32.319 what we're doing, like all the big questions have been 385 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:38.519 answered already, All the big questions have been answered about who, 386 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:42.599 what are human rights and who has them? That's all answered. 387 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:46.400 Don't be coming in here with your big time sort 388 00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:51.720 of fundamentalist theories, whether it's religious ideas or fundamental big 389 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:59.200 you know, big overriding ideas about anthropology and human dignity. No, no, no, no, no, 390 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.559 we're just engage. We limit our political discussions to basically 391 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.000 these kind of technocratic questions about the effective ordering of 392 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:16.799 what's what's supposed to be. It's amazing how much his 393 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:22.559 political thought has infiltrated its way throughout our discourse. Where 394 00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:27.640 I find this all the time. It's not that the 395 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:39.359 left engages with and rejects conservative ideas about say, gay marriage, 396 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.640 or transgenderism, or abortion, or are any of these big 397 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:47.240 sort of social questions. No, they just kind of bypass 398 00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:52.400 it as obviously wrong, just bypass it as obviously what 399 00:29:52.440 --> 00:30:00.000 we think is right. Just totally don't even engage because 400 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.480 so as they basically think any one of these conservative 401 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:07.240