1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: So for the subscriber only video for the month of November, 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,519 I decided to make a commentary on some aspects of 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,960 the restoration of Notre Dame Cathedral. And once in a 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,400 while we make these videos public because, as you might know, 5 00:00:13,759 --> 00:00:16,199 you know, the fact that people subscribe to the Symbolic 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,640 World and you know, participate financially is what makes us go. 7 00:00:20,719 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: We're not a big enough channel to you know, make money. 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:29,359 Speaker 1: With advertisement, and I also don't want to advertise products 9 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:33,119 myself on the channel. So because of that, people joining 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,000 the Symbolic World and participating is what helps us keep going. 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,200 And every month people get an extra video and also 12 00:00:41,399 --> 00:00:43,560 a Q and A that you can participate in, and 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,640 some discounts on the courses and all the stuff that 14 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:50,560 we do. And so for your consideration, the subscriber only 15 00:00:50,640 --> 00:01:05,239 video for the month of November, this is Jonathan. 16 00:01:04,879 --> 00:01:07,599 Speaker 2: Peeschel, Welcome to the Symbolic World. 17 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: Hello everyone, for our November Patreon video. We're putting it 18 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:26,519 out a little late this month. I thought that we 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,079 could look at the restoration of Notre Dame. You know, 20 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,079 when the fire of Notre Dame happened, it was a 21 00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:36,079 very strange moment for me. I don't completely understand why. 22 00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:41,319 I'm not usually a highly sentimental person, but when I 23 00:01:41,359 --> 00:01:43,079 heard about the fire of Notre Dame and when I 24 00:01:43,079 --> 00:01:46,159 saw the images, I just started crying. I just started 25 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:51,799 crying rather strangely and uncontrollably. And I sometimes I wondered later, 26 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,560 I wondered if it was because I could see that 27 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,799 this was a watershed moment, that in some ways this 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,920 was symbolic of what is happening in Europe, what is 29 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,040 happening to Europe's Christianity, and so, you know, and then 30 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:10,319 a lot of the weird we don't know if it's 31 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:13,800 gaslighting or the fear that, of course the fire would 32 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:14,719 be blamed on. 33 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,759 Speaker 2: Strangers of different faiths. 34 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: You know, there was a lot of weird communication about 35 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,800 the fire and about what happened, and so you know, 36 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,319 that seems to have not been completely answered, at least 37 00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:30,639 I see. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like it 38 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,560 has been completely answered. But despite that, after a big 39 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,120 which seemed to be a very scary discussion about what 40 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:43,599 the church would look like and it's restored versions, you know, 41 00:02:44,039 --> 00:02:47,639 from turning it into a kind of you know, led 42 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:55,960 screened you know, modern museum looking building, Finally, it seems 43 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:01,240 like cooler heads prevailed and they rebuilt the church very traditionally, 44 00:03:02,199 --> 00:03:09,080 kind of restored it to its former glory, except for 45 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,319 a few things. And that's what I'd like to talk 46 00:03:11,319 --> 00:03:14,360 to you about. As you see in the image portrayed below, 47 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:20,000 there is this very strange thing here. This, of course, 48 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,240 is the altar for the church, and it stands out 49 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,599 very strangely, you know, right there in front of the 50 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,280 high altar, as this kind of strange modern looking piece. 51 00:03:33,199 --> 00:03:34,800 And so I thought it could be an opportunity to 52 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,840 look a little bit at what happens when a lot 53 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,080 of the modernists try to reinterpret these kinds of symbols. 54 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,240 And sometimes I don't think it is on purpose, but 55 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,960 there is a kind of revolutionary intuition which plays itself 56 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,360 out in the work themselves. And if we're not careful, 57 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:57,000 then we are often making things no that are the 58 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,879 opposite of what they represent. And so this seems in 59 00:04:01,919 --> 00:04:02,960 my opinion. 60 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:03,439 Speaker 2: To be the case. 61 00:04:03,479 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: And so a lot of people maybe are watching this 62 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:08,039 now you don't know a bit about alters. I want 63 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:10,639 to talk a little bit about alters and what they 64 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,439 look like and what they what they are, what they 65 00:04:13,479 --> 00:04:18,839 represent and then we'll consider this particular altar the way 66 00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:22,759 that it was designed to see, you know, what exactly 67 00:04:22,879 --> 00:04:23,600 could it be? 68 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: Could it mean? Like what is it trying to show? 69 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: All right? 70 00:04:28,079 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: And so. 71 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: One of the things that happened in the Middle Ages 72 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,600 is that the older altars, which in the Orthodox Church 73 00:04:37,639 --> 00:04:41,160 we still have these older altars, which are kind of 74 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:47,000 rectangular or square, and are in the in the Holy 75 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:50,759 Place of the Church, in the sanctuary. And this, of 76 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,759 course is the ancient practice of the altars. The earliest 77 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,120 altars that we have in the Christian churches had this form. 78 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,920 They are of course described in a way that is 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,279 very similar to the way that the altars were described 80 00:05:07,319 --> 00:05:10,160 with the Old Testament. All the altars that are described 81 00:05:10,199 --> 00:05:14,600 in the Old Testament are square, and there's a reason 82 00:05:14,759 --> 00:05:20,079 why they're square. They're square because they represent the Earth, 83 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,439 which is going to sound weird for a lot of people, 84 00:05:22,759 --> 00:05:24,920 you know, because not the Earth, of course, as the 85 00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:27,800 planet floating in the heavens, but the Earth and the 86 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,959 experience of the Earth, which is something like stable extension. Right, 87 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:37,439 So four directions extending in four directions. That's why the 88 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,560 Bible and many ancient people talked about the corners of 89 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,120 the earth, the idea that the earth is extension. 90 00:05:45,199 --> 00:05:46,519 Speaker 2: It's also particularity. 91 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: If you think about the difference between a circle and 92 00:05:49,319 --> 00:05:51,439 a square, you can see, of course that a circle 93 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,160 is one it doesn't have corners, it doesn't have for 94 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,800 it has one, whereas the earth has, for it has 95 00:05:59,000 --> 00:05:59,639 four corners. 96 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: And it's very practical. Symbolism is very practical. 97 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: It's very practical because actually, if you want something to 98 00:06:06,199 --> 00:06:09,079 be stable and hold on the ground, you give it 99 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,879 four just like an animal has four legs in order 100 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,720 for it to stand properly on the ground, Just like 101 00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:18,959 a chariot would have four wheels for it to be 102 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,560 stable on the ground. And you know that is why 103 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,959 a car has four wheels. All of these reasons are 104 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,879 very based in general experience, but they are also based 105 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:33,079 on this experience of the earth as the stable place, 106 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,120 as the place you know, on which we stand, and 107 00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:40,560 it's it's represented as a square, this square, of course, 108 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,360 then we'll take its You know, there will be extensions 109 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:49,199 of this square in many places, whether it be buildings themselves, 110 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:52,079 whether it be the tabernacle itself, which is a rectangle. 111 00:06:52,879 --> 00:06:56,240 You know, of course, the square is the perfect rectangle. 112 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,160 You know, in some ways it's the perfect extension, but 113 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,600 it's also know completely fine for altars and for these 114 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,879 types of structure to be rectangle in the sense that 115 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,519 they are just have this stability on the earth and 116 00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:13,160 kind of represent this extension. Now, the symbolism of this 117 00:07:13,439 --> 00:07:17,639 was reiterated in different ways in the in the ancient church, 118 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,920 because very old churches often have what we call a siborium, 119 00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:25,639 and so a siborium is a shape is a kind 120 00:07:25,639 --> 00:07:28,279 of canopy that is above the altar. 121 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,759 Speaker 2: So you can see here some rather. 122 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: Old siboriums where the altar is placed of course in 123 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,480 again in the sanctuary, and then above the altar you 124 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:47,759 have a little architectural structure that will usually include either 125 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,639 a dome, so you can see the dome here on 126 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:53,920 top which which which is like a microcosm of the 127 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:54,639 entire church. 128 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: So the entire church. 129 00:07:55,839 --> 00:07:58,839 Speaker 1: Has a dome at the top, and then it's square 130 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,680 and it has four pillars that hold it on the ground. 131 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:06,160 And then the altar is beneath here and has this 132 00:08:06,399 --> 00:08:07,360 square sense. 133 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,319 Speaker 2: Now, you can do this in many different ways. Right, 134 00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:11,759 look at here, for. 135 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,839 Speaker 1: Example, how now the four pillars are integrated into the 136 00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:19,759 altar itself. Here now you have four pillars that move 137 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,000 into a canopy. This canopy can be also represented in 138 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,439 many ways. You can have here an actual dome at 139 00:08:27,439 --> 00:08:30,000 the very top, which is a microcosm of the heaven 140 00:08:30,079 --> 00:08:33,200 above and then the earth below being held. 141 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: Together into four pillars. 142 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: You can have it in this way, which is you 143 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,240 have a dome on the inside, which now is more 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,039 like representing in some ways the church. If you have 145 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,399 the experience of the church inside. If you looked at 146 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,840 this space here, you know you have that same experience. 147 00:08:48,879 --> 00:08:51,320 It's square, Sorry, you can't see the top of it. 148 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:52,759 And then there's the appse. 149 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:53,039 Speaker 2: On the inside. 150 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: So you have this this frame and then you have 151 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,000 the circle and the inside and represent the heavens. If 152 00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:01,879 you're not sure that they represent the heavens, there's a 153 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,600 nice reason why you would put stars up there, because 154 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:08,080 it does represent the heavens, you know, just like the 155 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,639 domes represent the heaven. 156 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,399 Speaker 2: And then with the earth below, you know. 157 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,799 Speaker 1: And so this is of course a little microcosm of 158 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,879 the entire world. All of it makes sense, you know, 159 00:09:17,919 --> 00:09:19,960 And there are many types of practices. It's not like 160 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,279 there's just one way to do it. There's a variety 161 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,840 in way to do it, but that variety, you know, 162 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,840 nonetheless has a kind of coherence to it, which gets 163 00:09:30,879 --> 00:09:35,080 represented in many ways in many iterations. Look at here, 164 00:09:35,159 --> 00:09:37,399 like let me give you any little example, right, So 165 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:39,159 I didn't even notice this when I started the video, 166 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,200 but look at how in this particular church, which is 167 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,440 a church in Cleveland, Archangel Michael ORGANSLDAK Church. Maybe someone 168 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,360 watching the video is from this church. Look at how 169 00:09:51,399 --> 00:09:54,200 they did the little alter the little tabernacle. So look 170 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,600 at how the little tabernacle is in some ways a 171 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,200 little microcosm of what we're talking about. So it's square, right, 172 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,919 and then it has a little dome at the top, 173 00:10:05,039 --> 00:10:07,960 a little point at the top. It goes point some 174 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,519 of the ciboria that are here. Sometimes they'll have a 175 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,120 little roof at the top, like a little pointed roof. 176 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:16,879 And so whether it's round, whether it's pointed, you know, 177 00:10:16,919 --> 00:10:20,039 whether you know, all of these things, you know are 178 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:25,000 variations on the basic understanding and the basic theme of 179 00:10:25,039 --> 00:10:28,799 a microcosm of heaven and Earth and the altar representing 180 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,000 the stability. Now, of course, there's a difference between the 181 00:10:32,039 --> 00:10:36,000 altars in the Old Testament and the altars in the 182 00:10:36,039 --> 00:10:39,559 New Testament, and the difference is that we don't burn 183 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,320 things on them and we don't kill things on it. 184 00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:47,919 And therefore and we also prepare. I'm gonna say, we 185 00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:53,039 don't prepare, but we offer the food there, you know, 186 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:59,600 and it's bread and wine. And the table also represents 187 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,399 the that Christ used during the Last Supper. So it's 188 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:06,879 it's it's the kind of this joining of the symbolism 189 00:11:06,919 --> 00:11:12,120 of the altar with the symbolism of the table for 190 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,799 the Last Supper, and then again the symbolism is all 191 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:20,840 joined together, and the coherence is just intuitive. Like it's 192 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,919 not like anybody has thought about I mean, yes, maybe, but. 193 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: It's not like it's not like this everybody. 194 00:11:25,919 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: Knew about about thinking about it this way. It was 195 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,519 just it it's so intuitive and it's so right to 196 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,840 do it this way that it just makes sense. 197 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:34,519 Speaker 2: You know that. 198 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,279 Speaker 1: Obviously, a table is also square. If you want to 199 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,159 eat on a table, you want the table to be solid, 200 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,600 and so most tables will have four legs. 201 00:11:42,879 --> 00:11:45,399 Speaker 2: In order for them to be solid on the ground. 202 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: There are alternatives, but most of the tables in the 203 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,519 world that you'll encounter will have that shape because it's practical, 204 00:11:51,799 --> 00:11:55,200 but then also it's symbolic because it has this structure 205 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,639 of the earth as the stable ground. Okay, Now, in 206 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:05,120 the European Middle Ages they develop these altars that we 207 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:10,120 call high alters. And the high altars now were a 208 00:12:10,159 --> 00:12:14,039 little different from the from the from the ancient altars. 209 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,039 They had the altar up against the wall of the 210 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,159 back of the church, as you can see here, you know, 211 00:12:20,279 --> 00:12:24,000 and so instead of now having a rectangle in the 212 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:26,840 middle of the holy place, they kind of put it 213 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,399 up against the wall. It really did emphasize in some 214 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:35,840 ways the sacrificial aspect of the of the mass, you know, 215 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,240 whereas in the Orthodox Church there's obviously the sacrificial element, 216 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,279 but there's also this kind of communion. 217 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:42,039 Speaker 2: So if you have a. 218 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: Church where there people are con celebrating, you'll see when 219 00:12:45,159 --> 00:12:47,440 you look, you'll see all the priests kind of gather 220 00:12:47,919 --> 00:12:52,080 around the table in order to partake in the meal. 221 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 2: And here we have more of an emphasis on the 222 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:56,519 sacrificial aspect. 223 00:12:56,519 --> 00:13:00,519 Speaker 1: And so the church, the the altar gets placed against 224 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,519 the back of the wall, and we develop what we 225 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:08,080 call a rarow dose, which is this back backing of 226 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:12,159 the of the altar with images that represent, you know, 227 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,879 some of the Christian symbolism. Some of these are absolutely 228 00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:18,840 magnificent and beautiful, like this is a very very beautiful 229 00:13:19,759 --> 00:13:23,679 image if you look at it, it's an apocalyptic, apocalyptic image. 230 00:13:23,919 --> 00:13:26,519 So you see Christ, you know, in the heavens, and 231 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,519 then you see the altar with the lamb here at 232 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:32,720 the bottom. I'm pretty sure that's what i'm seeing. I 233 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,759 hope that's what i'm seeing. I'm not inducing you into error, 234 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,440 but I think that's what it is, because you also 235 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,600 have the lamb up here. So this beautiful imagery, and 236 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:45,200 the imagery of course usually will continue to have this 237 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,639 image of the ciborium, but in the rareroad dose it's 238 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,440 not one hundred percent again, but it's just natural that 239 00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:55,559 the rareroad dose will have a pointed shape usually or 240 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,519 will have you know, a middle spire that will go 241 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,919 up higher. There will be like a little microcosm again 242 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:02,639 of the architecture of the church. 243 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: But now in the altar space. 244 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: Because in some ways you know this, the Church functions 245 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,919 at these as these embedded microcosms within themselves, and so 246 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,799 we developed the symbolism. Now as people know during Vatican Two. 247 00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:21,440 They because they changed the direction of the worship. They 248 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:26,399 had the priests facing the people. They reintroduced the older 249 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,960 form of the altar, and then did it in a 250 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,720 weird way. They reintroduced the older form of the altar, 251 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:34,720 but then now had the priests standing behind the altar 252 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:39,759 looking at the looking west in order to kind of 253 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,799 interact with the people more, et cetera, et cetera. 254 00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:46,759 Speaker 2: And so the I don't have a picture of well. 255 00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: Actually I don't have a picture of a modern Catholic 256 00:14:49,639 --> 00:14:52,720 Catholic altar, but the modern Catholic altars actually know I 257 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:57,200 do here and so here No, no, this is sorry, folks, 258 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,159 I'm messing you up here. And so yeah, the modern 259 00:15:01,679 --> 00:15:05,399 Catholic altars look more like these. They have the altar 260 00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:07,559 here and there's a space behind, very much like in 261 00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:11,679 the Orthodox Church. But instead of the priest standing towards 262 00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:15,639 the east, this preach is standing behind the altar and 263 00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:22,399 looking west. Now, let's come to this. So why does 264 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,320 this make us uneasy? Now, if you've been paying attention 265 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,360 from the beginning of the video, you'll already understand why 266 00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:33,080 it makes you uneasy. Now, if I'm going to give 267 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,679 them the benefit of the doubt, I will say that 268 00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:38,679 one of the things they were hoping to do was 269 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:42,519 to create a kind of symbolism of a ship. Maybe 270 00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:44,679 you don't see it from the top, but it's actually 271 00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:46,879 a rectangle. It's not round, it's not a circle. It's 272 00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:53,120 like a rounded rectangle that goes down like this. So 273 00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:54,440 if I was going to give them the benefit of 274 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,759 the doubt, I would say that they're trying to represent ship, 275 00:15:58,159 --> 00:16:02,919 you know. And maybe I don't know, but one of 276 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:07,919 the things for sure is that this is completely can 277 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,000 I say this, this makes no sense, like it just 278 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,919 makes no sense very very intuitively, which is that if 279 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:24,440 you see something around on the ground, your intuition is 280 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,279 that this thing is going to fall over. 281 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: This thing. 282 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,639 Speaker 1: Is unstable, obviously because it's round at the bottom. It's 283 00:16:34,679 --> 00:16:39,240 a wheel. This is not something that is stable and 284 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,320 is held down, you know. And so because of modern 285 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,200 our modern capacity to make these things, and because we 286 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:51,919 have the technical skill to do it, I'm sure this 287 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,919 alter is not going to fall over. It's probably held 288 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,960 in quite nicely underneath. But the experience of the altar 289 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,919 is that it is something like a wheel. It's something 290 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,680 that is going to turn it's something that's going to fall. 291 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,599 It is instability itself, because that's what. 292 00:17:11,559 --> 00:17:14,279 Speaker 2: A wheel is. A wheel is change. You know, that's 293 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,400 not very hard to understand. A wheel is changed. 294 00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:21,799 Speaker 1: And so when you see that, you know, and then 295 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,200 the fact that it is also done in its absolutely 296 00:17:25,279 --> 00:17:32,599 minimalist modern style, will emphasizes again this wheel aspect of it, 297 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,400 which is that it is change, It is progress, it 298 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,319 is modernity. 299 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,519 Speaker 2: It is all those things, and it is. 300 00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:45,799 Speaker 1: Obviously more that than it is an altar because it 301 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,400 also completely stands out, which is that it doesn't try 302 00:17:50,759 --> 00:17:55,599 even to integrate into the space it has. This object 303 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,079 has no desire to be related to all the other 304 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,599 furnishings that are in this building and all the statues 305 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,279 and the images. It wants to stand out. It wants 306 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:10,920 to be something that you notice as being completely different 307 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,400 from everything else. And therefore, at every single level, the 308 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,079 style of it, the way it's the you know, the 309 00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:23,359 the execution of it, and its shape all point to 310 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:29,200 the same thing, which is instability, change, you know, transformation. 311 00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:34,960 All of the these aspects, which is not an image 312 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,319 of the earth that the altar is. You know, because 313 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,680 you think about how what an altar is an alter 314 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,240 is the place where you gather the things from earth 315 00:18:44,279 --> 00:18:47,039 and you offer them up so that they receive the 316 00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:51,720 blessing from heaven. And that's why the altar is square, 317 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,200 you know, in the the yam Kipper sacrifice, the if 318 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,839 I think it's in that particular sacrifice, you know, it's 319 00:18:58,960 --> 00:18:59,519 very important. 320 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:02,279 Speaker 2: The corner of the altar are extremely important. 321 00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:06,039 Speaker 1: They actually have horns like these, these horns at the 322 00:19:06,039 --> 00:19:09,400 corners of the altar, and the priests will put blood 323 00:19:09,519 --> 00:19:12,920 on the corners because you're trying to kind of bless 324 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,880 the extension of the earth, where the fullness of the 325 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:21,759 multiplicity on the on the that are stable multiplicity at 326 00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:22,640 the edge of the earth. 327 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 2: This altar is fluid. This altar is change. 328 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,319 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, all of it just is completely coherent, 329 00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:40,160 but coherent in the way that progressivism and modernism is, 330 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,759 which is fluidity, change, transformation, progress. 331 00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:44,759 Speaker 2: All of that. 332 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:49,039 Speaker 1: And so you know, the weird thing too is that, 333 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,599 you know, it's like it's hard not to feel like 334 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,200 this is some also to some extent, a little bit 335 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,559 of a spiteful revenge, you know, a little bit of 336 00:20:01,559 --> 00:20:05,720 a spiteful revenge from the people or by the people 337 00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:09,359 that maybe would have hoped that this church would have 338 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,440 been restored in a modern way, would have been restored 339 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:15,480 with the modern idea and not just returned to its 340 00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:20,720 former appearance. You know, I'm speculating here. Obviously, I don't 341 00:20:20,759 --> 00:20:25,880 know if this was explicitly the intention, but at least 342 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,559 the sense of it is something like, oh, we'll restore 343 00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:33,000 your church the way it was, but we'll get the altar. 344 00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:36,240 We'll get the holiest place, you know, and we'll have 345 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,599 it and we'll claim it. You've lost, folks. It's like, 346 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,319 this is it. This is the future of the church. 347 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,839 It is changed and fluidity and all of that stuff, 348 00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:54,720 you know, with the this altar clearly represents you know, 349 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,480 and so and you know, in terms of the idea. 350 00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:01,640 Like I said, the most genuine its interpretation I could 351 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,480 make of this is that they're trying to make it 352 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:08,799 look something like a boat, something like a ship, but 353 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,559 that that just isn't right, you know. It's by the way, 354 00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:14,359 it's interesting because even the arc to read the description 355 00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:18,440 of the Ark of Noah, it's actually described kind of 356 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,200 as square, which is fascinating. It's described as a rectangle, 357 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,440 which is fascinating, but also you know, the church, the nave, 358 00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:32,119 the church, the place where all the people gather together 359 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,119 is already called the ship. 360 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 2: And you know it's like that's. 361 00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: It's not round, you know, it it is square because 362 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,200 it's also the earth at the same time, it's not 363 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,200 just this anyways, I think you understand what it is 364 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,880 that I'm trying to help you see, and so and 365 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,720 so even just the experience. So it's like, think about 366 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:59,119 people who walk into the church. You know, what is there, 367 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,279 what is going to be there experience? Their experience is 368 00:22:01,319 --> 00:22:04,119 going to be look at all this, look at all 369 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,119 this wow, wow wow, and what oh what? Oh oh? 370 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,599 Speaker 2: I see what's that? 371 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: Like? What why does that look so different from everything else? 372 00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:17,519 Speaker 2: Uh? And that is embedded at every single level of 373 00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:19,640 the execution of this object. 374 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,039 Speaker 1: And so anyways, I just wanted to give you a 375 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:27,400 little meditation so you can kind of understand how how 376 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,680 the strategy of let's say modernism. It doesn't mean that 377 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:36,680 things can't be modern, but it is this modernistic, revolutionary 378 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:43,759 approach to visual spaces, to architecture that create the type 379 00:22:43,759 --> 00:22:48,079 of uneasiness that we feel when we see an object 380 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,640 like this, you know, PLoP down in a Gothic in 381 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,839 a Gothic interior with a bit of Baroque, with a 382 00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:59,440 bit of Baroque excess in some of the statues. So yeah, 383 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,440 so I don't like it. I have to say that 384 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,160 I do not like it, but I'm nonetheless grateful that 385 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,839 they didn't do this to the whole church, even though 386 00:23:07,839 --> 00:23:10,920 they did get the altar, and I am looking forward 387 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:11,960 to be back in Notre Dame. 388 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: I was in Notre Dame. 389 00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: I was in Paris last year and with my kids 390 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,240 for the first time, was able to bring my kids there, 391 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,319 and I was quite sad that we could not go 392 00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:24,759 into the church. And so I hope next time I 393 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:26,920 go to be able to visit. And so everybody, thank 394 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,759 you for your attention, thank you for your support, and. 395 00:23:29,839 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: Talk to you very soon bybye. 396 00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: If you enjoy these videos and podcasts, please go to 397 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,640 the Symbolic World dot com website and see how you 398 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,799 can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers 399 00:23:40,839 --> 00:23:43,799 with perks. There are apparel and books to purchase. So 400 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,000 go to the Symbolic World dot com and thank you 401 00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:47,039 for your support.