WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.000 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:07.599 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 3 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:08.480 the bride and broom? 4 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:09.240 Sri? 5 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.160 Sorry we're here. We were getting lucky in the limo 6 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:13.199 when we lost track of time. 7 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:16.760 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 8 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:19.320 quicker than a guess registered Well, in that case, I 9 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:20.399 pronounce you lucky. 10 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:24.399 Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. Daily bonuses 11 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:27.160 are waiting. No purchase necessary boid. We're prohibited by lock 12 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:30.120 EIGHTEAM plus terms and conditions APPLAG see website for details. 13 00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:32.359 Hey guys, it is Ryan. I'm not sure if you 14 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:34.119 know this about me, but I'm a bit of a 15 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.159 fun fanatic one. I can I like to work, but 16 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:38.399 I like fun too. It's a thing. And now the 17 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:40.320 truth is out there, I can tell you about my 18 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:43.719 favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino. They have hundreds 19 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:46.320 of social casino style games to choose from, with new 20 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:50.320 games released each week. You can play for free anytime, anywhere, 21 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:53.280 and each day brings a new chance to collect daily bonuses. 22 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:55.920 So join me and the fun. Sign up now at 23 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:57.960 chumbacasino dot com. 24 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.520 No We're necessary daily REPOI where everybody lost and conditions 25 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.200 eaighting plus it. 26 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.359 Is Ryan here and I have a question for you. 27 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:06.560 What do you do when you win? 28 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:07.040 Like? 29 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.280 Are you at fist pumper, A wooo, a handclapper, a 30 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:12.120 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 31 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:13.840 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 32 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:17.159 check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com, choose some 33 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:19.840 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 34 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.640 redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, 35 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.599 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the 36 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:29.280 most fun ever. At Chumbuck Casino dot com. 37 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:31.959 You'll price necessary, dvoid over hibit by losty terms, conditions 38 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:32.599 eating plus. 39 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:36.840 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 40 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:38.719 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 41 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:41.680 Has anyone seen the bride and groom? Sorry? 42 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:42.920 Sorry we're here. 43 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:45.079 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 44 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:45.640 track of time. 45 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.159 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 46 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:50.400 quicker than a guess registered. 47 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.079 But in that case, I pronounce you lucky. 48 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:56.799 Ks for free at Lucky landslots dot com. Daily bonuses 49 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.560 are waiting. No purchase necessary BOID. We're prohibited by LOCK 50 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:01.959 eighteen US terms and conditions of the playing See website 51 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:02.480 for details. 52 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:06.519 Long Tai. 53 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:19.159 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 54 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.280 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 55 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:29.639 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every 56 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:33.360 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 57 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:37.639 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 58 00:02:37.719 --> 00:02:52.400 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good Evening, A and 59 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.319 E Network has set at November premiere for the Killing 60 00:02:55.439 --> 00:03:00.879 Season docuseries from Oscar winning executive producer Alex Gibney from 61 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.240 Going Clear Scientology in the Prison of Belief. This eight 62 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:11.039 episode series follows documentarians Joshua Zeeman Cropsey and Rachel Mills 63 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:13.800 from Killer Legends as they investigate one of the most bizarre, 64 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:18.000 unsolved serial killer cases of our time, the deaths of 65 00:03:18.199 --> 00:03:22.719 ten sex workers discovered on Gilgo Beach, Long Island. Authorities 66 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:25.039 believe these killings are the work of the Long Island 67 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:29.759 serial killer, who after five years, remains at large, forging 68 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:34.360 relationships with cyber sluice, journalists and victims families Zeemen and 69 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:38.520 Mills uncover connections that suggest Long Island is just the beginning. 70 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:43.120 Through their investigation, the pair discover connections to unsolved murders 71 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:47.400 from Atlantic City to Daytona Beach and beyond, revealing that 72 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:51.319 serial killers are targeting sex workers in record numbers while 73 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:56.000 using the Internet as their virtual hunting ground. The Killing 74 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.080 Season will premiere with back to back episodes November twelfth. 75 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:04.080 The Killing Season, the A and E documentary series, premiering 76 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:08.639 November twelfth with my special guest documentary and filmmakers Joshua 77 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:11.520 Zeeman and Rachel Mills. Thank you very much for agreeing 78 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.599 to this interview and welcome to the program. Joshua Zeeman 79 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.519 and Rachel Mills. Thanks for having us, Thank you, thank 80 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:21.240 you very much. 81 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:22.120 This is. 82 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:33.519 Powerful, this is important, gripping, disturbing, incredible. Congratulations. I give 83 00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:39.240 all the credit to this incredible investigation that you've undertaken 84 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:45.480 and this project, The Killing Season. Now, Rachel, you were 85 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.959 just a briefly your background to show the audience basically 86 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:55.519 where you came from before this project. You're a producer 87 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.040 and assistant director and you were known for Killer Legends 88 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.959 just recently in twenty fourteen and Josh Zeeman, you were 89 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:09.199 responsible for the Netflix Cropsy brilliant documentary in two thousand 90 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:13.879 and nine, and you wrote and directed that, And you 91 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.639 were both involved with Killer Legends, and you, as you say, 92 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:22.079 investigated the origins of some of our most terrifying urban 93 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:26.439 legends and true stories that may have inspired them. Now 94 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:32.199 with this the Killing season, tell us, I guess, maybe, Rachel, 95 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.800 tell us, what was the genesis of the Killing Season? 96 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:37.600 How did it come to be that both of you 97 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:41.399 people decided to do this? Tell us what those circumstances were? 98 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.439 Sure, well, we both lived in New York and this 99 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:49.160 first case, a yoga murder investigation was in Long Island, 100 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.720 which is not such a jump hop and a skip 101 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.680 away from where we are in New York. So the 102 00:05:54.800 --> 00:06:00.160 first set of bodies for bodies found within day to 103 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.199 each other, back in twenty ten. So those bodies were 104 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:09.800 discovered after a sex worker named Shannon Gilbert, a young woman, 105 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:15.079 went and bishing back a year before, about a year before, 106 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.480 so during her search, during the search with Shannon Gilbert, 107 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:22.160 police ssembled upon these four sets of bodies along the 108 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:29.120 Desolat Highway. Months after that, about six more bodies were found, 109 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.920 not too far away, so a lot of carnage along 110 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:38.319 one strip of highway out in Long Island, and with 111 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:42.160 so many bodies, we thought that this case would be solved. 112 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:45.600 But your one went by, your two went by, and 113 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:51.560 it seemed to be no movement. So, you know, once 114 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.920 about the third year went by, Josh and I were 115 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:59.000 doing Killer Legends and we decided, well, you know what, 116 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.279 this should be our next project, and we were going 117 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:06.000 to do this as a documentary future. But after investigating 118 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.360 the Gobi case, discovered that unfortunately, crimes such as these 119 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:16.399 involving sex workers are happening all across the country and 120 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.680 there seems to be not a lot of answers, very 121 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.800 similar to that being the patent in Long Island. 122 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.399 Now, Josh, you started, as you say in this that 123 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:36.839 you started this investigation on Memorial Day with that investigation, 124 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:43.720 How did you begin your investigation on Memorial Day into 125 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.839 the Long Island serial killing case. 126 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.120 Well, I mean one of the first things we were 127 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:54.800 doing was, you know, interviewing sex workers and I think, 128 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:57.680 you know what, there's a woman that you see in 129 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:00.279 a series named super and we were drying having her 130 00:08:00.279 --> 00:08:04.160 around with her and it was just so fascinating because 131 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:08.879 here was a woman who was escorting in the same 132 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:12.879 you know kind of hunting grounds that the killer was using, 133 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.920 and she didn't know that much about the case. I mean, 134 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.279 she knew women had been killed, and you know, we 135 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:23.240 were driving her around, taking her from a hotel to hotel, 136 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:27.079 talking to her about you know, sex work and what 137 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:34.559 she afraid. And what she didn't know is that Memorial 138 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:40.600 Day was basically the start of the hunting season for 139 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:44.279 this killer. It's believed that he found most of his 140 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:45.679 victims during that time. 141 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:46.879 And so. 142 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:50.159 One of the reasons that she didn't know this was 143 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.440 because the police weren't really telling anything to anybody. You know, 144 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:59.000 it was unfathomable to me that with so many murders 145 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:01.679 out there that the police at some point stopped talking 146 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:05.000 to the general public, stop communicating to the general public. 147 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.759 And you know, when that happens, people are going to speculate. 148 00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.799 And you know, that was one of the reasons that 149 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:13.200 we decided to pick up a camera. 150 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.799 Now let's go back to the story that you capture. 151 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:24.919 So I mean vividly and disturbingly and grippingly. Let's go 152 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:28.559 back to Shannon Gilbert, and as you talked about, you 153 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:33.120 had access to this woman called super and you, at 154 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:36.799 some point in this documentary go on a you you 155 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.679 drive a prostitute around for a week, so you you 156 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:45.360 really do see get a little slice of life from 157 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:49.679 their own their own lens. So tell us about So 158 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:54.440 tell us about the Shannon Gilbert and her real state 159 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:57.600 of affairs. How long had she been a prostitute? What 160 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:01.240 was her background? Just before this? Tell us of the 161 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:06.440 case or the story of Shannon Gilbert to reveal how 162 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:08.639 they discovered the other bodies on Gilgilt Beach. 163 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.879 Well, that's one of the weird things here. You know. Basically, 164 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:20.120 Shannon Gilbert is an escort. She's living in Jersey City 165 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:23.759 and she gets a call from a prospective John out 166 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:28.080 in this kind of very desolate area known as Oak Beach. 167 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:31.639 And she has a driver, which is kind of interesting 168 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:34.200 because you know, a driver is not like a pimp. 169 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:37.559 It's just someone who's driving her out to where she's going. 170 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:39.039 And she goes. 171 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:44.240 She meets John by the name of Joseph Brewer. They 172 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:49.879 you know, party for a couple hours and then something happens. 173 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.200 We don't quite know exactly what it is, but Brewer's 174 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:57.120 been very open with police and he says that Shannon 175 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:01.919 starts to freak out. Something must have happened, something must 176 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:07.000 have spooked her, and he calls the driver who's waiting outside. 177 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:10.320 The driver comes in, a man by the name of 178 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.960 Michael Pack. They try and bring Shannon kind of back 179 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:16.080 to the car to get her out, and she's like 180 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:21.159 hiding behind the couch. She's so freaked out. At some point, 181 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.320 Brewer reaches for her, you know, to kind of pull 182 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:26.799 her outside of his house, and she freaks out. She 183 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:32.919 runs outside. She apparently trips and falls, gets back up, 184 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:36.039 and then she starts to run through this kind of 185 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:37.960 seaside community. 186 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:37.960 By the way. 187 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.759 It's very isolated. It's about twenty twenty five minutes away 188 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.679 from any store or anything like that. And she's knocking 189 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.480 on neighbors doors, screaming for help. She knocks on a 190 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:50.840 couple of neighbors doors, some answers, some don't. One of them, 191 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.960 a guy by the name Gus, kind of invites her 192 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:57.080 to her inside. This is about five o'clock in the morning, 193 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:02.039 and she is screaming they're trying to kill her. She's hysterical, 194 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:04.840 and he says he's going to call the police. She 195 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.720 says no, don't call the police. She runs back down 196 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:10.960 the stairs and kind of runs through this community. Meanwhile, 197 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:15.840 Michael Pack, who's her driver, is searching for and to 198 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:20.360 make a long story short, she basically runs down the 199 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:23.440 street towards the water and it's never seen from again. 200 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.080 And it's at this point that kind of the real 201 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:31.840 mystery begins. The police eventually come a couple hours later, 202 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:37.200 and at that point, Shannon had made a phone call 203 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.279 to nine on one on her cell phone, and Shannon 204 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.600 didn't really know where she was, so she said she 205 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.879 was near Jones Beach, so she is routed to the 206 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:51.759 state police. In fact, Shannon is not really in Jones' 207 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:55.279 Beach anymore. She's in a different area. She's actually just 208 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:59.240 right across the county line. So the call gets transferred 209 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:02.480 to Jones Beach and then it gets transferred to another 210 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.559 law enforcement agency on the Suffolk County side, And basically 211 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:09.960 she's on the phone for like, I think twenty one 212 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:12.960 to twenty three minutes, kind of screaming for help and 213 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.240 all these other things, and then her phone goes dead 214 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.360 and so she could never tell the police when she 215 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.960 was on the phone where she was. And the only 216 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:26.399 reason the police came was because the neighbors who had 217 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.960 called her, and so there's a little bit of a 218 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.799 you know, disconnect there between Shannon's nine one one call 219 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:37.399 and then the neighbor's nine one one calls, and in 220 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:43.080 fact that connection is never made. The two law enforcementgencies 221 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:48.000 never sync up. And what basically happens is the driver 222 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:50.519 goes home, he doesn't know what happens to her, and 223 00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:54.320 then Shannon's boyfriend calls the driver when she doesn't come home, 224 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.399 and then they try and file a missing persons report. 225 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:03.399 We hear at or was told Basically, when the boyfriend 226 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:05.399 and the john go to file missing person's report in 227 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.279 stuff A County, there's some may kind of left, you know, 228 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.639 because sex workers. You know, she's a sex worker. You know, 229 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.399 she probably just ran out, That's what they said, and 230 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.519 there's a definitely fumbling of the missing person's case. Shannon, 231 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:25.799 as I mentioned before, was from Jersey City, so you know, 232 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:31.639 there's some unknown idea of where the missing person's report 233 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.039 should be filed Jersey City, where she's from, or Suffolk 234 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:39.679 County where she disappears from. And Shannon's missing person's report 235 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:42.879 neither law enforcement agency really wants to kind of take 236 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:46.080 the missing person's report. So there's all these factors that 237 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.399 lead up to the fact that no one is kind 238 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.840 of looking for Shannon for a couple of days. Now, 239 00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:55.279 the crazy thing is, Shannon no one can find her, 240 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.840 and it basically takes more than a year for that 241 00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:04.360 to happen. So while the police, you know, they spend 242 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:06.799 a couple of days, even weeks looking for her, they 243 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:11.519 can't find her. Nobody knows what happens. But meanwhile, one 244 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.200 of the cadaver dogs and the trainer who had been 245 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:21.120 searching for Shannon basically had been using that same area 246 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:25.559 a couple months later to train his dog, and the 247 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:32.799 dog stumbles upon the bodies of four other escorts sex 248 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:36.120 workers who have been found wrapped in burlap about a 249 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:40.279 mile and a half away from where Shannon disappeared, and 250 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:42.840 that kind of jump starts the whole story. 251 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.200 Now, Rachel, just the part that in the documentary that 252 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.720 you and Josh do is to talk to somebody, the 253 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:58.080 police and get their opinion on Shannon Gilbert in the 254 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.960 likelihood of this being an accident, and that's what they 255 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.039 chalked it up to. But you also talk again, have 256 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.519 incredible access to people in the family, so tell us 257 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:11.879 the difference between those two interviews of their opinions on 258 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:12.919 what happened to Shannon. 259 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.559 Sure, well, just to be transparent, the only we did 260 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.879 not talk to any active police in the first few 261 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:27.720 episodes that that felty probably changes later on. But we 262 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.720 talked to Dormer, who is the ex police commissioner of 263 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.919 Zuppa County, and he does believe that Shannon's death was 264 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:40.519 an accident, that she simply drowned in the marsh and expired. Now, 265 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.240 the thing is is that the police have been pretty 266 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:47.639 tight lipped. The family would probably argue that they haven't 267 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:50.720 heard from the police for quite a while, and when 268 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:56.559 you don't hear from police, you know, it creates a 269 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:01.240 void of information, and they'rein rates a lot of speculation. 270 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.880 And also, you know, this is this is the family 271 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:07.319 members who have not a lot of answers. You know, 272 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:10.720 the twenty three minute nine on one call has not 273 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.160 been released, and I understand their argument that if the 274 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.920 police are saying it is an accident, then why wouldn't 275 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:22.400 they release a twenty three minute nine one one call. 276 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.880 There doesn't seem to be a lot of reason that 277 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:27.079 if they do agree that it is an accident, why 278 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.000 they wouldn't release that. So the family is simply looking 279 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:36.000 for answers, and they do believe that there was some 280 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:41.480 kind of foul play with Shannon's death. Now, you know, 281 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:46.359 Josh and I are on the side that you know, 282 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:51.519 there's she probably did expire in that marsh. However, that 283 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.279 doesn't mean she didn't meet someone during her twenty three 284 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.880 minute journey running up and down the the dark streets 285 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.960 of Oak Beach. You know, we don't know if someone 286 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:09.279 gave her something that you know, uh, combined with maybe 287 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.680 another drug she took that led her to go into 288 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:17.640 that marsh. And that marsh is very very cold, you know, 289 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.599 long long islands, I mean, you're it's a small stretch 290 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.480 of land between a bay and an ocean. The winds 291 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:27.039 are very strong, even in the beginning of May, which 292 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.640 which is when she when when she died in that marsh. 293 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.400 Josh and I went out there and and I was breething, 294 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.559 you know, and I had gloves, I had goloshes on, 295 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:43.799 and you know, she supposedly stripped there and went through it. 296 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.759 So it doesn't surprise me that the elements can get 297 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:51.680 you when when you get into that marsh. So you know, 298 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.039 there's I think there's a lot of unanswered questions in 299 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.920 in the Shannon Gilbert case. And again, if if they 300 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:02.359 do really believe that, then that it is totally accidental 301 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.279 and she did drowns. Just release release the twenty three 302 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:08.799 minute phone call so we can move on and investigate 303 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.200 the rest of these murders, because when we talk about 304 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:17.160 Shannon Gilbert, the attention goes to her, which is understandable, 305 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.720 but there's also another you know, nine bodies, five of 306 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:24.599 which are unidentified, which could lead to a lot of 307 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.119 answers and the go go investigation. 308 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.640 Now, what you do is you introduce I guess to 309 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:35.480 the world, the people the rest of the world that 310 00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:41.319 doesn't know about websluse dot com. And you also introduce 311 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.519 a character, you say, an amateur profiler that you vetted 312 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:50.759 through pretty interesting process to be able to believe that 313 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:53.519 what he is saying is credible. And this is a 314 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.000 Peter Brent. So tell us about web sluse and the 315 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:03.960 rise of this crowd solving community, and also what Peter 316 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.200 had said initially about Shannon Gilbert and the relation to 317 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.720 the Long Island serial killer and what he had and 318 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:14.519 then his thoughts about the Long Island serial killer. 319 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:17.960 I mean, this goes back to the idea that you know, 320 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.359 after three years, the police, you know, stopped talking to 321 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.960 the public, and you know, I guess they stopped talking 322 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:29.559 because you know, they really didn't have any answers. And 323 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.200 as a result, as we were saying, when you stop 324 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:35.599 speaking to the public, you start to get a lot 325 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:40.440 of speculation, and especially in you know, in this kind 326 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.920 of digital age that we're living in, and so there 327 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:48.759 was an explosion of speculation on the Internet. Now what's 328 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.920 very interesting is that a lot of this speculation was 329 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.000 in a lot of different forms. People were trolling each other, 330 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.640 sniping each other, calling each other the killer, the whole 331 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:02.880 nine yards. That's in a very unorganized way. But you know, 332 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.160 the Internet, you know, when it comes to true crime. 333 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.480 What we've noticed is there's been this real rise in 334 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.839 the internet sleuth thing. And one of the places that's 335 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.319 very good about internet sleuthing is a site called web Sluice. 336 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.160 And you know, this explosion of kind of looking at 337 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:25.799 theories and clues really started. And then Joe Bane Ramsey case. 338 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.440 But you know, it also like took on a life 339 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.480 of its own in the list case because there was 340 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.920 so much speculation. So because the police weren't saying anything, 341 00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.200 we went to web slue. We wanted to hear what 342 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:43.079 people were saying. And on web slue we met this 343 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.200 guy Peter Brent. And you know, everybody says there's a 344 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:49.319 lot of kind of crazy crackpots on web slue, and 345 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:51.920 you know, we definitely saw that. But but we could 346 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:53.839 also tell that there were other people who seemed to 347 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:55.960 know what they were talking about. One of them was Peter, 348 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:00.119 and I remember we kind of called him up and 349 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.079 he right off the bat, you know, he seemed to 350 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.720 know exactly what he was talking about. And I remember 351 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.200 I even gave him some of the case files from 352 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:10.799 Cropsy to see if he knew what he was talking about, 353 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.480 and he did. And one of Peter's initial things that 354 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.480 he gave us was saying, you know, hey, listen, you 355 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:20.599 know I don't believe Shannon is connected, and he gave 356 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:23.599 some really interesting reasons, and he also kind of said, 357 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.359 you know, it's the problem is the suff the county police, 358 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.759 you know, they kind of they botched the case. And 359 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:33.839 so we started to really connect with Peter, and what 360 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.000 he was saying was very interesting. A lot of things 361 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:39.799 that I didn't know at the time, like, for example, 362 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.200 the behavioral profiling unit that was made famous in the 363 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:46.240 Silence of the Lambs, Like that agency has been gutted. 364 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:50.319 All those profilers have been taken over and are now 365 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:53.640 working on counter terrorism, so kind of no one has 366 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.880 left to really look at serial killers anymore. And so 367 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.799 he just opened up this whole fascinating world us, whether 368 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.359 it's the amount of serial killers who are really out there, 369 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:06.680 or the fact that you know, he believes and people 370 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:09.400 now say, I had no idea that in New York 371 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:13.240 City alone there are six active serial killers at any 372 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:15.440 one time, and that was just shocking to me. 373 00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:23.480 Another statistic that is very important to this story, and 374 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:25.400 I think it will be very important to the future 375 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:31.559 of being able to profile these killers and addressing this 376 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:36.440 problem even remotely, and that is that you cite a 377 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.759 statistic about how many serial killers or how many the 378 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.240 percentage of prostitutes that were killed at one time as 379 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.279 opposed to the percentage of prostitutes are killed by serial 380 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:49.039 killers today. 381 00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:54.559 And why right, Yeah, it's interesting. It's a statistic I 382 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.039 didn't know either, but makes a lot of sense when 383 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:59.160 you start thinking about it. I think from the nineteen 384 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:05.279 seventy we learned that serial murder involving sex workers increased 385 00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.880 by I believe it's seventy percent. You know, back in 386 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.960 the seventies and the sixties and seventies, serial killers are 387 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:21.440 going after runaways, sorority girls, hitchhikers, you know. But in 388 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.920 this trackable society that we live in now, they know, 389 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.720 the killers know who to go who to go after, 390 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:32.359 And those are the people who are living on the fringes. 391 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:34.839 Those are the people who are trying to evade law 392 00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.519 enforcement themselves. Those are the people who are using burner 393 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:42.319 cell phones, who are dealing in cash transactions, who are 394 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:46.319 posted to pack backpage in criklist. You know, we think 395 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:50.960 that everyone you know can be connected by an IP 396 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.759 address or a phone number, or obviously they can track something. 397 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.759 But you know, these women are smart and they want 398 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.359 to continue doing business the way that they are, and 399 00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:05.119 to do that they need to be not trackable. And 400 00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.920 these serial killers know that. They know that. For one, 401 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:14.480