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Speaker 1: guess what, it's dot net rocks all over again.
Speaker 2: It keeps happening. I'm Carl, Carl Franklin, and I'm Richard Campbell.
Speaker 2: That's Richard Campbell. Richard, you're not home now. I'm in
Speaker 2: New Zealand. I'm this is the we're recording needs in November,
Speaker 2: and I am got the grandbaby with me and her
Speaker 2: parents and we are visiting all the extended family and
Speaker 2: traveling around the North Island. That's nice. Then we're gonna
Speaker 2: head over to Australia for a few days as well
Speaker 2: and see the Coogans and the Hunts. Nice and then
Speaker 2: we'll we'll leave home at the end of November. How
Speaker 2: old is the little baby? Seven months? She's doing really great.
Speaker 2: Little little baby's do just thriving. She's enjoying herself.
Speaker 1: Okay, and now this is your cousin's kid.
Speaker 2: No, no, this is my granddaughter.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh oh, your granddaughter's with you there.
Speaker 2: That's right. Oh that was the whole point. Bring the granddaughter,
Speaker 2: see my mom, and I'm my uncle and aunt and
Speaker 2: all that. But my cousin here that runs the farm
Speaker 2: where we're staying, has two little boys who are three
Speaker 2: and five, and they are absolutely enamored of her. For
Speaker 2: an obvious reason, the thing that would matter most to boys.
Speaker 2: They handed her a remote control for one of the
Speaker 2: dump trucks, and the seven month old, not even know
Speaker 2: what a button is, grabbed it in a way that
Speaker 2: hit the button full boar, ran the dump truck into
Speaker 2: her father's leg. And now these two boys think she's
Speaker 2: the greatest baby of all time.
Speaker 1: That must have been hilarious, hilarious, hilarious.
Speaker 2: But they've been very sweeter, and she's just loving having
Speaker 2: little kids around her. So she's having a blast.
Speaker 1: I remember when Claire was a little girl. This is
Speaker 1: my second The only thing that would make her laugh
Speaker 1: was when I hurt myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, made me laugh too, for faked hurting myself? Right,
Speaker 2: that's it? Yeah, No, crack her up, right, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the best. All right.
Speaker 1: So you're in New Zealand. So I had any good lamb.
Speaker 2: Not a bit? No. I remember, I'm on a dairy farm.
Speaker 2: The freezer is full of beef. Yeah, okay, really good
Speaker 2: beef too, all right? Cool?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, when you have some nice lamb, think of
Speaker 1: me take a selfie.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I will.
Speaker 1: Brady Gaster's here with us, but we're going to talk
Speaker 1: to him in a few minutes. First, we have a
Speaker 1: couple of things to discuss. First of all, this is
Speaker 1: episode nineteen seventy six, and so let's talk about what
Speaker 1: happened that year. Well in America, that is our bi centennial.
Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, and it was an election year too.
Speaker 2: This is when Jimmy Carter gets elected. Jimmy Carter. God,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 1: And Apple Computer Company and Microsoft were both incorporated in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 2: True yep. And Apple releases Wosney Ak and jobs make
Speaker 2: the Apple one, a single board computer, which they sell
Speaker 2: two hundred of almost immediately, and then announced the Apple two.
Speaker 2: And we'll talk about that next show.
Speaker 1: So Sylvester Stallone began filming Rocky, which would become an
Speaker 1: iconic sports drama and the first commercial flights of the concord. Yeah,
Speaker 1: took place. In other bad news, the first recorded outbreak
Speaker 1: of the e BOWLA virus occurred in Sudan, leading to
Speaker 1: two hundred and eighty four cases. And they didn't even
Speaker 1: have Burger King.
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, that's dark man, That is dark. Naia Komeny.
Speaker 1: The gymnasts scored the first perfect ten in Olympic history
Speaker 1: during the Summer Olympics in Montreal. I remember seeing her
Speaker 1: and watching that on television and I was not eight
Speaker 1: nine years old, right, I was nine years old like you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sal Bellow received the Nobel Prize for his contributions to literature,
Speaker 1: and Betty Williams and Myriad Corrigan were awarded for their
Speaker 1: efforts and peace activism.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: Of course, there's a lot more. But what happened in
Speaker 1: space and tech?
Speaker 2: Richard. On the space side, the first chest shuttle OV
Speaker 2: one oh one, originally named Constitution, was rolled out, but
Speaker 2: due to a letter writing campaign by a bunch of
Speaker 2: Star Trek fans, is renamed Enterprise. Oh that's great. Also
Speaker 2: in seventy six, Viking one and Viking two going to
Speaker 2: orbit around Mars. They have an orbiter piece that does
Speaker 2: surveillance and communications and then sends down a couple of
Speaker 2: lander each these or twelve hundred pund landers. So they
Speaker 2: were big powered and land successfully on the surface of Mars,
Speaker 2: and of course the Martians blew them up and not
Speaker 2: They landed just fine. Everything was fine. You know, we
Speaker 2: could go deeper into some of the mission, some of
Speaker 2: the exploit they did. One of their attempts was to
Speaker 2: prove there was life on Mars. The results were very inconclusive,
Speaker 2: and with our new sensors, we've later come to understand
Speaker 2: that the chemical reactions of the perchlorates and the soils
Speaker 2: of Mars would have confused the instruments on Viking. Well
Speaker 2: there you go. Were on the computer side, we already
Speaker 2: mentioned the Apple one definitely important is also the year
Speaker 2: that the Intel eighty eighty is released. I put one
Speaker 2: of those in an ne S one hundred bus machine
Speaker 2: and the z log Z eighty.
Speaker 1: The Z eighty, Yeah, I think my ts TRS eighty
Speaker 1: Model four.
Speaker 2: How does ED eighty and it absolutely so did mine.
Speaker 2: This is also a year that CPM is released that
Speaker 2: Gary Kildoll at Digital Research in his team, and CPM
Speaker 2: is the precursor to DOS, isn't it Well, DOS emulated CPM.
Speaker 2: CPM was just flying on its own. Yeah. The first
Speaker 2: version they have, the ibmpc that I ever played with
Speaker 2: was running CPM, not MS dots.
Speaker 1: And also I had a friend who had a TRS
Speaker 1: eighty Model three that ran CPM.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they all could, and then no one. Last one
Speaker 2: would be the Seymour kre. The very first crazy supercomputer
Speaker 2: is built for the US government. It is about a
Speaker 2: ten million dollar computer in nineteen seventy six. Oh my,
Speaker 2: and the machine is curved to minimize the length of
Speaker 2: the wiring to optimize for performance. Wow, first generation supercomputing.
Speaker 1: All right, well, let's waste no more time and get
Speaker 1: right to better no framework, roll.
Speaker 2: The music, all right, dude, what do you got?
Speaker 1: So this came to us from one arn On axel Rod,
Speaker 1: and thank you Arnon for bringing this to our attention.
Speaker 2: This is python net past. Guess this is cool? What
Speaker 2: is python net? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Python net. Python net is provides interrout between Python and
Speaker 1: dot net in both directions. Oh cool, And it's a
Speaker 1: GitHub repo and we'll paste the link to that. So
Speaker 1: of course you can call dot net code from Python
Speaker 1: and you can call python code or embed Python in
Speaker 1: dot net, right, awesome, call python from.
Speaker 2: So they could be friends. So there you go.
Speaker 1: And you know this is good because dt net developers,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're kind of spoiled if you're just a
Speaker 1: dot net developer, right, anytime you have some new cool
Speaker 1: tool that says, oh you gotta download Python, like uh,
Speaker 1: I gotta what or oh you got to run node.
Speaker 1: But you know, being a polyglot, you kind of have
Speaker 1: to do those kinds of things.
Speaker 2: But sure, you used to speaking JavaScript and you can
Speaker 2: handle some seqel. You can handle a little Python. It's
Speaker 2: not going to hurt anybody. It's not going to hurt anybody.
Speaker 2: Go fine, you'll be fine. It'll be fun. Right. Plus,
Speaker 2: you know all the kids are doing Python these days. Yeah,
Speaker 2: all the cool ones anyway, all the cool ones, especially
Speaker 2: the universities. And that I write more Python that I
Speaker 2: care to admit to. Yeah, but you know, I'm a
Speaker 2: I'm a data muna, right, and so I write a
Speaker 2: little Python myself. I like my Jupiter notebooks.
Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, here you go, So go learn it, know it,
Speaker 1: learn it, love it.
Speaker 2: Who's talking to us today? Richard grabbed a comment off
Speaker 2: a show eighteen fifty one, which you did back in
Speaker 2: June twenty three with Savannah Ostrowski, which I did. I
Speaker 2: think we did at as show. I'm not sure, maybe not,
Speaker 2: but we were talking about the Azure Developer CLI. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I know we're talking to Brady Day, who is
Speaker 2: all about developers and Azure and working all the things together.
Speaker 2: But it was particularly relevant to me because there was
Speaker 2: a recent outage on with Azure front Door that was
Speaker 2: reaking a lot of havoc for asking the portal and stuff. Right,
Speaker 2: But one of the teams I was working with does
Speaker 2: all their employee deployees through the az dev CLI. They
Speaker 2: were totally unaffected. They didn't need to get they didn't
Speaker 2: need to go through front door, so they were happy
Speaker 2: go and command line for deployment. Makes your life better.
Speaker 2: But Edward Keelholtz, who we know it in fact, I
Speaker 2: just saw him while I was in Europe, had this
Speaker 2: comment this gain from a couple of years ago, where
Speaker 2: he says, hey, the az Dev CLI lowers the barber
Speaker 2: embracing the Azured cloud environment. Using the CLI allows people
Speaker 2: new to Azure to generate full blown and serious infras
Speaker 2: code solutions. I'm just wondering if you always should. If
Speaker 2: you're not familiar with a certain cloud product, you should
Speaker 2: be careful deploying it. It's easy to not secure the
Speaker 2: service properly, or you just put it in a straight
Speaker 2: v net. And I think the CLI will be strong
Speaker 2: in deploying app service plans before it deploys a web app,
Speaker 2: but it will also advise you, will advise you to
Speaker 2: put a web application firewall in front. I don't know
Speaker 2: if it does right now that maybe it should. CLI
Speaker 2: is a nice tool to get going faster, but you
Speaker 2: need to know what you're doing to protect yourself from
Speaker 2: security issues and high bill.
Speaker 1: It's an old story. Richard and Patrick Hines likes to
Speaker 1: say convenience is the enemy of security and vice versa.
Speaker 1: So if you're going to secure it, that means you're
Speaker 1: going to have to enter your passwords and all that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff a lot more than you want to.
Speaker 1: But you know it's going to be a little bit
Speaker 1: more secure, so you're right.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would also argue in favor of this
Speaker 2: sort of repeatabil AUDI. You know, command line stuff. As
Speaker 2: long as you follow all the steps you should follow,
Speaker 2: it only can be very secure. It's also very consistent
Speaker 2: and reliable. Yes, so you know, I just I'm keen
Speaker 2: on doing the same thing every time. And if you
Speaker 2: haven't ever listened to that show, like go Back Over thirty,
Speaker 2: you know it's episode eighteen fifty one, and Savannah provided
Speaker 2: it is a great list of links for different tools,
Speaker 2: including the developer, CLI templates and things that'll just get
Speaker 2: you into good practices. Yeah, so, Edward, thank you so
Speaker 2: much for your comment, and a copy of music Cobuy
Speaker 2: is on its way to you. And if you'd like
Speaker 2: a copy of music cobe I write a comment on
Speaker 2: the website at don at Rocks dot com or on
Speaker 2: the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if you
Speaker 2: comment there and I read on the show, we'll send
Speaker 2: you a copy of music go by.
Speaker 1: And believe it or not, I have started Music to
Speaker 1: Code by track number twenty three.
Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, I've started it. If you so
Speaker 2: often you get an itch for this, right like you
Speaker 2: sort of, it's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I have
Speaker 2: started it.
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty cool, you know, and it's just going
Speaker 1: to take a Saturday or something like that to sit
Speaker 1: down and finish it. But Music to Code By there's
Speaker 1: twenty two tracks. You can get the entire collection an
Speaker 1: MP three wave or FLAK format from Music to Code
Speaker 1: by dot Net. And of course, the whole point of
Speaker 1: it is to help you get into a state of
Speaker 1: flow while you're writing code and it works.
Speaker 2: You know, it's been a while since you've posted a
Speaker 2: YouTube video about you making music of any kind. Maybe
Speaker 2: you ought to just record making that track. That's not
Speaker 2: a bad idea. You might want to edit down or something.
Speaker 2: I just see people will be fascinated to see the
Speaker 2: process you go through. Sure, that's a pretty crazy idea,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'd watch it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you and a couple other people and.
Speaker 2: Me and a couple of my friends. You know, what
Speaker 2: do you want? What do you want?
Speaker 1: Brady was smiling as we were talking about Azure Cli.
Speaker 1: So let me introduce Brady right now, base near Seattle,
Speaker 1: Brady Gaster aspires to make it easy for dot net
Speaker 1: developers to party in the cloud. As the product manager
Speaker 1: behind Visual Studios, Azure Wright, Click Publish, and Connected Services features.
Speaker 1: He also helps with Aspire tooling support and Visual Studio
Speaker 1: and Visual Studio code. And we're not designing new tooling
Speaker 1: features or building demos with teammates. He's trail running five
Speaker 1: k's Wow, parenting two teens and mixing new one hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy four beat per minute drum and bass sets
Speaker 1: or producing his own electronic music.
Speaker 2: And I can vouch for that.
Speaker 1: Brady and I were geeking out before you got on
Speaker 1: the show music Makers. Yeah, yeah, Brady, welcome.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. I've had like the whole series
Speaker 3: of like nostalgic moments throughout this conversation, like you mentioned, uh,
Speaker 3: you mentioned the until eighty eighty.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The other day we went to I don't know if
Speaker 3: you've ever been to like old school renting whenever you've
Speaker 3: been in town.
Speaker 2: Not recently. They have this this that used to be
Speaker 2: just you all use car lots back in the day.
Speaker 2: That's how old schools. Like.
Speaker 3: This is like a little part of town. And they've
Speaker 3: got this place called eight Bit Arcade.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 3: And they've got been there. It's cool, amazing, it's amazing.
Speaker 3: So they've got all these like old, old and new
Speaker 3: pinball machines and like my wife basically blew like ten
Speaker 3: bucks on this back man frogger or whatever. And the
Speaker 3: one that I fell in love with was this game
Speaker 3: called Gunfight, and I was like tripping out on this game.
Speaker 3: And basically it's a quarter and it's two player automatically,
Speaker 3: and the stick goes up and down, and then you
Speaker 3: got another stick where you can aim the gun and
Speaker 3: then you hit the button to like shoot or you
Speaker 3: pull the trigger to shoot, and you've got ten shots,
Speaker 3: and you're shooting through like these cactuses and this like
Speaker 3: station stage coach, and like you only get like ten shots,
Speaker 3: and if you're it's super like super like super Pong
Speaker 3: level graphics, you know what I mean. So that game
Speaker 3: was called Gunfight. But what was exciting about it is
Speaker 3: it was the first game to ever be built on
Speaker 3: a microprocessor, and the microprocessor was the eighty eight, right,
Speaker 3: And and it was also the game that influenced like
Speaker 3: Techan moratl Kombat, because it was the first game that
Speaker 3: had to go ahead to head, like it was like
Speaker 3: one side versus the other side a street fighter, and
Speaker 3: like all those games are like influence.
Speaker 2: We are we are with the stories of the show
Speaker 2: numbers starting to bump into the history of video games.
Speaker 2: I got to make sure I include all of that
Speaker 2: because we did call out the first Pong and Colossal
Speaker 2: adventure and so forth, because it's all part of computer
Speaker 2: history too.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, next show is going to be fantastic.
Speaker 2: I've been taking notes for it.
Speaker 1: So to get back to this arcade. I think it
Speaker 1: was Glenn Block that took us there last time we went.
Speaker 1: And it's this big warehouse, right and maybe what eight
Speaker 1: or nine rows of games?
Speaker 2: Is that? The kind of is that the place?
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that one's in Las Vegas. I'm sorry, that's
Speaker 1: Las Vegas. Yeah, that's that.
Speaker 3: That place is dope too, But this is like this
Speaker 3: is like a little mom and pop place in like
Speaker 3: old school renting, okay, you know, which is like across
Speaker 3: the street from a tattoo parlor, across the street from
Speaker 3: a coffee shop, you know whatever. Like yeah, so there's
Speaker 3: like terrible parking and like whatever else.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, sure, like tongue is proper.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1: So what are you thinking about these days? Brady's mind?
Speaker 3: I'm kind of thinking about the you know, I was
Speaker 3: chatting with Richard and Lisbon my first time in Lisbon
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks back, and uh, beautiful, I was
Speaker 3: I was thinking about kind of the the intersection between
Speaker 3: you know, dot net and Azure as always because I've
Speaker 3: been in you know, dot a land since just after
Speaker 3: the Obama administration, and uh, I felt like it was
Speaker 3: like time to start working over in azreg and I've
Speaker 3: been like the Azure dot guy and the dot net
Speaker 3: team for a while, you know, helping out with the
Speaker 3: tooling side of that. But you know, it was one
Speaker 3: day I was kind of sitting on the on the
Speaker 3: on the at the kitchen bar talking to my wife
Speaker 3: and I said, it's interesting, you know, VJ, my engineering manager,
Speaker 3: and I are in the process of kind of creating
Speaker 3: like more of an agentic experience in the chat window.
Speaker 3: It's like you're texting to the cloud, you know, give
Speaker 3: me you know, give me a web back, give me
Speaker 3: a Davis. And it's it's working really well, but it's
Speaker 3: also kind of creating and existential. I'm like, this is
Speaker 3: really good, Like I can imagine this like going away
Speaker 3: and not going away for like you know, this this
Speaker 3: this way of going you know, going to the problem.
Speaker 3: And she said, how does that feel? I was like
Speaker 3: kind of weird, like I think you do, find something
Speaker 3: else to work on. And then it was modernization, So
Speaker 3: now like that got between that interchange between modernizing your
Speaker 3: applications and you know, you know, bringing them from you know,
Speaker 3: dot net framework to dot net you know, core and beyond,
Speaker 3: which you know I've talked to you all about since
Speaker 3: as long as I've been at Microsoft. You know, that's
Speaker 3: something we we've all done in our consulting world. But
Speaker 3: that's what I'm gonna be doing now is kind of
Speaker 3: working on the architecture side with some folks covering the
Speaker 3: you know, the the Azure side, uh, you know, to
Speaker 3: kind of make it easier for folks to kind of
Speaker 3: modernize not just one app or two apps, but two
Speaker 3: hundred apps, two thousand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a big part of the Azure Depth
Speaker 2: some I think it was part of the keynote is
Speaker 2: is how do we harness these I'm just going to
Speaker 2: call them code generators rady honestly because it takes a
Speaker 2: lot of the science fiction out of this.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: We have a new generation of code generators that are
Speaker 2: really good at parsing certain kinds of code. And if
Speaker 2: you say, hey, take this dot nep for eight app,
Speaker 2: and what does it look like as a dot net
Speaker 2: nine or heck, dot net ten app? And the tool
Speaker 2: goes to work and does a bunch of the heavy
Speaker 2: lifting for you. Doesn't do everything, but it does quite
Speaker 2: a bit, right, that's kind a bit.
Speaker 1: It's a process of iteration. Absolutely, you can't just expect
Speaker 1: it to un first.
Speaker 3: You know, pass exactly. One of the things I like
Speaker 3: about it is you can y'all are probably heard of
Speaker 3: spec Kit, something we've talked about also the show. Okay,
Speaker 3: good good, Yeah, Well, I like the idea of spec
Speaker 3: in conjunction with things like, you know, modernizing your apps,
Speaker 3: and you know, worked on an experiment that was kind
Speaker 3: of inspired by it. Not I cloned their repo or anything,
Speaker 3: but it was, you know, the same kind of idea.
Speaker 3: It was interesting, you know, how far you could get.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, I think, I
Speaker 3: think you're right, and I see a lot of the
Speaker 3: tools leaning in on that SPEC driven thing. Now it's like,
Speaker 3: don't just ask me one, don't expect you you can
Speaker 3: get what you want in one question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. Build you know, build me
Speaker 3: a banking app with support for at MS or you know,
Speaker 3: g r p C.
Speaker 2: Like, no, yeah, let's break it down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, it down. So if you if you
Speaker 3: work with the AI to like write those write those
Speaker 3: specs out. It's it's a lot more iterative to you know,
Speaker 3: a lot more manageable.
Speaker 1: It's just like writing a novel. I mean, I would
Speaker 1: think I never wrote a novel, but you know that
Speaker 1: you started out by consulting the AI about an outline,
Speaker 1: and you get an outline together, and then you slowly
Speaker 1: fill in the details and pieces and see how they
Speaker 1: fit together. It's the same thing, you know, and bite
Speaker 1: off too big a chunk.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say, just like eating an elephant,
Speaker 2: kind of one bite at the time.
Speaker 1: Oh, well, I have done that, and it is not easy,
Speaker 1: let me tell you.
Speaker 2: And it took a long time.
Speaker 3: I can imagine. Yeah, it's it's it's been cool to
Speaker 3: kind of see that the intersection and kind of you know,
Speaker 3: do that dance between you know, the wizard approach to
Speaker 3: things and then you know, the agentic approach to things
Speaker 3: and then the augentic approach to a thousand things. It's
Speaker 3: definitely challenging to think about that that process.
Speaker 2: It does It does seem like a because you Microsoft
Speaker 2: has routinely built tools for migration. Yes, you know, migration advisors,
Speaker 2: like all those kinds of things, and they tend to
Speaker 2: be very specific and they get better over time, so
Speaker 2: eventually it gets lower lower a bar, like we're kind
Speaker 2: of sitting on a tool stack now with these new
Speaker 2: tools that they could be more generalized. Certainly, I've I've
Speaker 2: worked hard to get a basic application running, and see
Speaker 2: Sharp with those tools said hey, why don't you make
Speaker 2: us in rush? And it's the switching languages for those
Speaker 2: kinds of tools. They don't care. It's all the same
Speaker 2: to it, right, dude.
Speaker 1: I remember when dot net first came out and there
Speaker 1: was a VB six to VB net converter.
Speaker 2: Do you remember this? Yeah? I remember, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I knew some of the folks who work on it.
Speaker 1: And I was disappointed to see that. What they did
Speaker 1: is they created a visual Basic interrupt library in dot
Speaker 1: net that had the keywords for visual Basic six but
Speaker 1: dot net arized and then all they did was they
Speaker 1: changed it to these you know, keywords or whatever. I
Speaker 1: was like, you're not really, you're not really moving to
Speaker 1: VB net.
Speaker 2: You know, you're no.
Speaker 1: But now, of course, in twenty twenty five, if there
Speaker 1: was something like that, and of course there is. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's these lms they could just directly convert from one
Speaker 1: language to another, like you're talking about Richard, and it's
Speaker 1: just so much better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to someone the other day.
Speaker 3: They pulled up a really interesting uh UI component. You know,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm in the dot net space. So when
Speaker 3: I talk to somebody who's working with, you know, something
Speaker 3: not the dot net space, and they pull up a
Speaker 3: UI component I haven't seen, I kind of get really excited.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I don't know if you've ever
Speaker 3: seen what is it called? React flow is what it's called.
Speaker 3: It's this fantastic react flow. Yeah. React flow. It's this
Speaker 3: great component you can set up like you know, like
Speaker 3: mind map type apps. And we got to look in
Speaker 3: at that, and I was thinking, like, it's really cool.
Speaker 3: You can just like toss the a Hey, I want
Speaker 3: an app that has a back end that looks like
Speaker 3: this and the front end that looks like that, and
Speaker 3: he goes, okay, hang on a second, you know, and
Speaker 3: it just kind of like turns that out for you.
Speaker 3: That's always really interesting. But I think it's good to
Speaker 3: have context, you know, like like for you to kind
Speaker 3: of say I want this part, and I want that part,
Speaker 3: and I want this part A great yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You have to go have that, otherwise you might end
Speaker 1: up with something that you're not sure what it does
Speaker 1: or why.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Do y'all ever say your prompts as you progress?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Ever ever played that game? Okay, okay, that's always interesting.
Speaker 2: I have a library of prompts.
Speaker 3: Good.
Speaker 1: I have a library of other people's prompts that's opp yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: for for those who are keeping score, and also my
Speaker 1: prompts that I've created. But in fact, there's a whole
Speaker 1: library in GitHub of prompts just that that are for
Speaker 1: different things that people have created and Microsoft created it.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well I'm more I'm more or less
Speaker 3: talking about like you open up you know, follow new
Speaker 3: folder you know or whatever. Uh you know, uh, and
Speaker 3: you start working on a project and you vibe coded
Speaker 3: or you spectra you know, you know, whatever you do,
Speaker 3: do you save the prompts that you use as you
Speaker 3: go along, Like at various points you hit the the
Speaker 3: new chat window.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know what I mean, only the ones
Speaker 1: that worked, Okay, I don't save the ones with the result.
Speaker 2: Is you stupid little man?
Speaker 3: I actually did experiment with that. One time. I saved everyone,
Speaker 3: and every time I would go there to hit the button,
Speaker 3: I would I would, you know, save that prompt It
Speaker 3: was zero zero one zero zero zero. And then and
Speaker 3: then I asked it at the very end, I said, Okay,
Speaker 3: I want you to make a basically a table of contents,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? Okay, that is the kind
Speaker 3: of demonstrates the storyline of like how we got here together.
Speaker 3: You know, it's great, this is like act one, you know.
Speaker 3: And I also want you to add like kind of
Speaker 3: a like a vibe summary, like you know, like like
Speaker 3: how Brady felt at the end of that. You know
Speaker 3: that that phase of the experiment. Wow, it's very interesting
Speaker 3: to look back at it and watch and kind of think, wow,
Speaker 3: it's an interesting journey, you know. But when I got
Speaker 3: out of it, it worked really well.
Speaker 1: So every time I talk to people who are using
Speaker 1: these MLMs, I get things like this that I never
Speaker 1: thought of that, like that is just such a brilliant idea.
Speaker 1: But it's just when everything's open ended, sometimes we don't
Speaker 1: have because we don't have the constraints.
Speaker 3: Oh exactly.
Speaker 1: It's sometimes it's it's difficult to even think of things
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well well, well if you've looked
Speaker 3: up react flow in the last minute and a half
Speaker 3: since I mentioned that, because you're curious as to what
Speaker 3: it looked like, people check it out, you know, like
Speaker 3: like like like think about react flow. Okay, last from
Speaker 3: the past plus the ex SLC arguments list object to
Speaker 3: create a work.
Speaker 2: So that hurts my brain.
Speaker 3: Oh, we basically build biz talk and and and reactalk
Speaker 3: is back.
Speaker 2: There's a whole bunch of millennials going what he because
Speaker 2: when I think biz talk, I think node and react
Speaker 2: that's what I think.
Speaker 3: Wow, It's like it's like it's like those old J
Speaker 3: and B edge always come back to what you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but you know, look what is our lives
Speaker 2: as developers but getting dated from one place, munging it
Speaker 2: in some way and sending it on to another place.
Speaker 2: And that's what you just described, you know, always exactly right.
Speaker 3: It's like this year's hierarchical, next year it will be
Speaker 3: in a relational again.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, what's what's what's our next topic? What
Speaker 3: do we have new shoes here?
Speaker 2: Brandy, it's your show man. You tell us what the
Speaker 2: next topic is you got a great one? I talked
Speaker 2: about Savannah's the story of Azure or dev c l
Speaker 2: I and and he worked on that. Did you Uh No,
Speaker 2: I was, I was.
Speaker 3: I was her biggest fan. It's funny, I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 3: sitting I'm sitting here looking at an azy D script
Speaker 3: I just write with help from GBT. Uh. Savannah and
Speaker 3: I work together because Uh. At the beginning of Aspire,
Speaker 3: I remember saying, guys, I think we need something that
Speaker 3: will like talk to a cloud. So like, whatever we
Speaker 3: do with like the Aspire at the time it was
Speaker 3: it wasn't a manifest yet, whatever we do with a
Speaker 3: fire should probably emit some sort of intermediate language that like,
Speaker 3: you know, Azure could turn into buy SEP and a
Speaker 3: w S could turn into whatever Google.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, And they were like, nah, it's all she's sharp.
Speaker 3: And I was like, Okay, yeah, that's fine, that's cool.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll just be here when you're ready to do that,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, when you come to your senses,
Speaker 2: I'll be right over here.
Speaker 3: Mitch and I Mitch and I ended up you know,
Speaker 3: Mitch filter prototype, and it was it was pretty hot
Speaker 3: and for reasons it wasn't time for it yet, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, So we like didn't do it.
Speaker 3: But at the time I was talking to Savannah because
Speaker 3: you know, she was like, you know, like what's your
Speaker 3: what's your suggestion for working with this your team or that,
Speaker 3: like do this you know he likes snickers bars, you know, whatever,
Speaker 3: you know, and and uh, you know exactly you're getting
Speaker 3: the reality of it exactly. That's old Skyka trick, by
Speaker 3: the way. But but we we we consulted a lot,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And I was a huge
Speaker 3: fan of the work that she was doing and in
Speaker 3: and in on some of the AI stuff. But at
Speaker 3: the time, you know, we were like, we need a
Speaker 3: cool way of deploying you know, Aspire apps to uh
Speaker 3: to Azure. So we came up with the way that
Speaker 3: we we had at first, which was like emitting you know,
Speaker 3: like working really really tightly with a z D. But
Speaker 3: it was like such an easy button, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. It was like such an easy button for
Speaker 3: a lot of folks. They kind of wanted to be
Speaker 3: able to break the glass, you know, myself included what
Speaker 3: we have now and Aspire is like amazing, It's like
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: Better Yeah, it is amazing to rely on a D
Speaker 2: as well, but it has other options.
Speaker 3: No, you have a lot of other options. I mean,
Speaker 3: it never relied on a z D like like what
Speaker 3: you would get out the other end, the easy, the
Speaker 3: easy part of it, like whatever you would whatever you
Speaker 3: get out the other end that would run through AZD.
Speaker 1: Can I brag a little bit about about Aspire?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 2: This week?
Speaker 1: Okay, I say this week's It was the week of
Speaker 1: eleven five. Okay, So Jeff Fritz and I did a
Speaker 1: code it with AI episode where we basically had a
Speaker 1: text to t SQL generator and we initially wanted to
Speaker 1: use an MCP, but it turned out that it's just
Speaker 1: not quite ready yet. It's still evolving, and we didn't
Speaker 1: want to show people how to install node and then
Speaker 1: do all this stuff and it turned out to be complicated.
Speaker 1: So we basically just used an embedded MCP to get
Speaker 1: the table schemas for the four tables that were in
Speaker 1: our database, and then we use that in the system
Speaker 1: prompt and that was enough.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: We basically said generate t sql from the following text
Speaker 1: prompt and it did it. But the thing about it
Speaker 1: was that we used Aspire to spin up an instance
Speaker 1: of SQL server in a container, and we didn't have
Speaker 1: to have Seql on the machine, we didn't have to
Speaker 1: have SQL anywhere, Nobody had to have a Sequel license.
Speaker 1: It went right in the repo and anybody can just
Speaker 1: download this app, download this code and run it, and
Speaker 1: Aspire will fire up the containers and we're running against Sequel.
Speaker 1: And not only that, but we included the script to
Speaker 1: generate the database and it just freaking works.
Speaker 3: That's cool, that's really And I was so impressed.
Speaker 1: I had I didn't know that that was possible, and
Speaker 1: I was just so impressed.
Speaker 3: That's cool. That's cool. One of the early stupid experiments
Speaker 3: that we did. Have you all heard about the rust thing.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Maddie.
Speaker 2: Are you apologizing to Maddie.
Speaker 3: I don't remember. I don't remember which release it was.
Speaker 3: It was like shortly after Maddie had like become the
Speaker 3: Queen of the Fire. But we, uh, so we were yeah,
Speaker 3: so we were were. Uh. She was putting together some slides, okay,
Speaker 3: and one of the slides was about the community Toolkit,
Speaker 3: all right, So she the slide goes up on the
Speaker 3: screen and I looked at it and I remember doing
Speaker 3: a double take and immediately I look at my screen
Speaker 3: and Jeff Fritz is I ming me and he goes,
Speaker 3: I know you saw that. He goes, I know you're
Speaker 3: going to lose it. It's not what you think it is.
Speaker 3: And I looked and I went, was that the Face
Speaker 3: Punch Rust logo? And he said yeah it was. And
Speaker 3: I was like, is there a face Punch Rust integration
Speaker 3: for a spire that nobody told me about? And he
Speaker 3: said no, Maddie used the wrong logo, right, so.
Speaker 2: That everybody else can enjoy the joke punch, So right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Face Punch is a game studio and they made a
Speaker 3: really funny game called Gary's Mod. It's built on top
Speaker 3: of the Unity with the with the intention of like
Speaker 3: super extending the game and like making it whatever you want.
Speaker 3: And then they kind of followed up and they built
Speaker 3: an extraordinarily aggressive survival game called Rust. And there's a
Speaker 3: lot of different ways to play Rust, but it too
Speaker 3: is built on top of Unity and dot net And
Speaker 3: at the time I had been learning it's APIs to
Speaker 3: kind of kind of customize the game a little bit.
Speaker 3: And I remember I am Mattie and she was like,
Speaker 3: what do I do, and I was like, well, I
Speaker 3: don't think they like it when you use their logo
Speaker 3: in correctly, but I think this is going to be okay.
Speaker 3: And she goes, it's on Reddit and I went, well,
Speaker 3: I got to get to work. So I built an
Speaker 3: Aspire integration for the game Rust that you would run
Speaker 3: the Aspire thing and you go get a coffee and
Speaker 3: make a sandwich and maybe maybe go for a run,
Speaker 3: and like when you came back the game Rust would
Speaker 3: be running on your computer inside of an Aspire orchestration engine.
Speaker 3: That's crazy, and here's your video. And she was like,
Speaker 3: thank you for keeping me honest. So that was our
Speaker 3: little that was like a twenty six hour like you know,
Speaker 3: Brady has to make it happen.
Speaker 2: So it was fun.
Speaker 3: It was a good time.
Speaker 1: So has Neil Young complained about Rust yet?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry?
Speaker 3: Have you?
Speaker 2: Are you admitting you built an interface to deal with
Speaker 2: misappropriated logo? Is that what you're saying? Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I mean you put you put the
Speaker 3: logo out there. So then like I remember pinging Aaron
Speaker 3: and I was like, you're gonna put this in the
Speaker 3: community tolkit. He was like no, if it's like it's
Speaker 3: got base And like a couple of days later, I
Speaker 3: saw he and Pine talking about it, and he pulled
Speaker 3: up Rust and they both kind of snickered, you know,
Speaker 3: because Pine knew I was working on it. I was texting.
Speaker 3: But you know, I guess, like, here' there's some Rust
Speaker 3: fans on your team. It was funny.
Speaker 2: It's a classic game.
Speaker 3: It was like great, it was funny. That was great.
Speaker 3: Mitch had some comments. He was like, do I have
Speaker 3: to learn how to play Russ? Now? I was like
Speaker 3: a from It's like that. That's that would be bad.
Speaker 3: It's like a modern warcraft. I guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, take a break, Richard, Yeah, we should
Speaker 2: take a break, all right, go ahead, all right, and
Speaker 2: we will be back after these few important messages.
Speaker 1: You know, dot net six has officially reached the end
Speaker 1: of support, and now is the time to upgrade. Dot
Speaker 1: Net eight is well supported on aws. Learn more at
Speaker 1: aws dot Amazon dot com, slash dot net.
Speaker 2: And we're back. It's dot at rock summerger Cavi. Let's
Speaker 2: call Franklin. You she is hanging with our friend Brady Gaster.
Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about, you know, his crazy career
Speaker 2: making all of us more productive.
Speaker 3: How are y'all doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, we're really grateful there, Brady, thanks much
Speaker 2: for this stuff. But it has to be harder than
Speaker 2: you came along. That's great.
Speaker 3: I texted my family and I was like, I just
Speaker 3: have to give y'all some have to give y'all some love.
Speaker 3: I texted him and I said, I get to do
Speaker 3: a bucket listing today. Uh, I said, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: And I was like, I get to be on dot
Speaker 3: at rocks of these guys forever. And have you never
Speaker 3: had an opportunity or I've never been cool left to
Speaker 3: be on the show whatever that you have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were on a panel at some point we
Speaker 1: just a.
Speaker 2: Million billion years ago. Yeah, we don't know back in
Speaker 2: the day, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the day I met Michelle Monthay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I tried to imagine. It was probably
Speaker 2: a while ago.
Speaker 3: It was in Vegas. Vegas, probably cameras decided to blur,
Speaker 3: makes sense.
Speaker 2: We were all together in Lisbon for sure.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I was a good time. That was kind
Speaker 3: of a reunion of sorts.
Speaker 2: It was. It was very much a you know, cadre
Speaker 2: of the old school studio and uh see, sharp speakers
Speaker 2: and definitely we went. We had a good time in
Speaker 2: two ways about that.
Speaker 3: Oh, it was good. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: It was a lot of fun. Yeah, weather it was fantastic. Nice,
Speaker 3: nice to nice to enjoy that, it's.
Speaker 2: It's a lovely area, and twos about it. What you
Speaker 2: what was your talk there? You were talking about this
Speaker 2: like the right path of cloud development with with with studio.
Speaker 3: I was my first session that the first day was about,
Speaker 3: you know, visual Studio and Azure development, and like I
Speaker 3: kind of alluded to earlier, you know, one of the
Speaker 3: things we talked about were like the different the different
Speaker 3: Azure you know, the different Aspire features that we have
Speaker 3: along like right click publishing. And one of the features
Speaker 3: that we added right before we shipped the last last
Speaker 3: update was being able to deploy one service at a time,
Speaker 3: so essentially that those VAS tools sit on top of
Speaker 3: a z D up And one of the things that
Speaker 3: I'd hope that we would get at some point was
Speaker 3: the be abley to sit on top of a z
Speaker 3: D deployee service right so if you had like three
Speaker 3: or four services in your Aspire app, being able to
Speaker 3: multiple at one time. We were able to get that
Speaker 3: done right about the time you know right about the
Speaker 3: time we shipped that update, so it was like kind
Speaker 3: of fun to get that to get that in there,
Speaker 3: but we got that done right then. And then the
Speaker 3: thing that I was most excited to be able to
Speaker 3: show was the various things that you can do using
Speaker 3: the GitHub copilot for Azure, which is essentially kind of
Speaker 3: the brand name for getting the Azure MCP tools inside
Speaker 3: of VS and VS code, and that was really fun
Speaker 3: to be able to work with Shane's team and case
Speaker 3: team to be able to bring that over to VS
Speaker 3: and to be able to literally say things like I
Speaker 3: want to deploy this app to the cloud, and it
Speaker 3: kind of knows like go go download the pub xml file,
Speaker 3: do this, do that, whatever, you know, So that was
Speaker 3: really fun being able to I think I put published
Speaker 3: a video on LinkedIn. I could probably send you of
Speaker 3: doing an experiment with it. I sent Hunter a video
Speaker 3: and he was like, what's this And I was like,
Speaker 3: it's an empty API and worker project. He was like,
Speaker 3: what do I do with it? I was like, look
Speaker 3: at the prompt So he copies the prompts, pay is
Speaker 3: it in, you know, pace it in, and it's basically
Speaker 3: build me a web q worker that sits on top
Speaker 3: of Azure storage keys, and it runs and it goes
Speaker 3: and it processed the whole thing and provisions everything and
Speaker 3: configures everything. And he was like, this is cool. Can
Speaker 3: I use this? Yeah? Yeh yeh yeah. So it was
Speaker 3: a lot of fun to be able to like do
Speaker 3: those kinds of things. If you think about what we
Speaker 3: were able to do for years with connected services, we
Speaker 3: were curating like onesie two zi services at a time,
Speaker 3: you know, like this this month we had you know, Signalore,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean or whatever. There's like seven
Speaker 3: thousand services and Azure, you know. So if you think
Speaker 3: about the idea of just sitting on top of those tools,
Speaker 3: and those tools sit on top of the A Z
Speaker 3: CLI or the a z d c l I, you know,
Speaker 3: just being able to call the tools and the you know,
Speaker 3: call the like you're done, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: So it's it's it's nice, it's it's been it's been
Speaker 3: a great partnership.
Speaker 2: I find myself not looking up the syntax anymore for
Speaker 2: all this stuff. Right, Okay, it just the co pilot
Speaker 2: spits out. The one thing it can is at least
Speaker 2: is syntax that will run. It might not be the
Speaker 2: thing you wanted to run, right, but it will out
Speaker 2: right where most of the time when I'm typing the
Speaker 2: syntax from the dogs, it doesn't run at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly. It's messed up. That's till I messed up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's been. It's it's been a fun partnership
Speaker 3: with them. Like I said, at first, it was it was,
Speaker 3: you know, wow, like a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 3: we were going to build, you know, we don't have
Speaker 3: to build. We can let the AI do it now.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: And then it turned into wow, now that the a
Speaker 3: I was doing that for us, we can go build
Speaker 3: this right, And I think that's the way people ought
Speaker 3: to think about it, you know.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, yeah, I've had I've had a
Speaker 2: few conversations now with folks about what software just was
Speaker 2: never going to get built because our backlogs were so
Speaker 2: large and the barrier to entry to starting any project
Speaker 2: was so high. And as these simpler problems can be
Speaker 2: more automated or at least you get this eighty twenty effect,
Speaker 2: and a bunch of he lift, he's done, a bunch
Speaker 2: of the basic stuff has done it. Now you do
Speaker 2: the heavy lifting parts. I just think we're going to
Speaker 2: make more software, you know, the same way when it
Speaker 2: got to use you to travel when the internet was
Speaker 2: introduced to that, you know, maybe there were fewer travel agents,
Speaker 2: but there was a lot more travel going on.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. Well, one thing I think that you know,
Speaker 3: you were talking about how it's really just you know,
Speaker 3: moving data from point A to point B higher of course,
Speaker 3: you know whatever. You know, back in the day, we
Speaker 3: were using as m X, and then we were using wisdoms,
Speaker 3: and then we were you know, then we're using rest APIs.
Speaker 3: I really think if you wanted to you know, do
Speaker 3: you know the the acronym that you probably bund up
Speaker 3: as much as I've burned up open a PI versus
Speaker 3: open AI. You know, if you if you think about
Speaker 3: you know, open a p I as the you know,
Speaker 3: description layer for back end APIs, you think about MCP
Speaker 3: as a description layer for those tools that the A
Speaker 3: I can use, It's really the same thing. You know.
Speaker 3: It's just like now your front end is an a
Speaker 3: c GP. It's just the chat wind to you know,
Speaker 3: we're like texting to all those tools to get what
Speaker 3: we want.
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of cool, and we used to do this
Speaker 2: with a search tool and a lot of cut and
Speaker 2: pasting and disassemble it, and now these new generator tools
Speaker 2: will largely put that together for you. You still have
Speaker 2: to push on bits and make sure it's correct, but
Speaker 2: you had to do that anyway because you screwed up
Speaker 2: too exactly. No, No, this is novel. We've all made mistakes,
Speaker 2: but it is faster. Oh yeah, it is.
Speaker 3: You mentioned Condrent earlier. We were in a meeting one
Speaker 3: day and I was telling them I think I have
Speaker 3: an MCP tool that I can feed some stuff too
Speaker 3: to play MIDI ended up showing this a build and
Speaker 3: I showed him. He was like, stop, stop, what are
Speaker 3: you doing? What are you doing? And I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm typing the name of the MCP tool And he
Speaker 3: was like, why are you typing the name of the
Speaker 3: mc pole And I went because I got to call
Speaker 3: it tool. He went, just just say play the note
Speaker 3: and I went, you're thinking too much like a developer bag.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 3: He goes, look at the description put in the attribute
Speaker 3: Mike told you to write. And I read it and
Speaker 3: he goes, that's all think of think of it knowing everything,
Speaker 3: And I went, what he was sayl place play middle Seed,
Speaker 3: I write play middle Sea. I was like, he goes, okay,
Speaker 3: go go go experiment. So like that that turned into
Speaker 3: build them up.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, So Brady, what do you think of
Speaker 1: these uh LLM tools that produce music? And now there's
Speaker 1: some pushback on those for copyright infringement and stuff. But
Speaker 1: my friend, I have a friend who is not a musician,
Speaker 1: and he's just enamored of this stuff. And I tend
Speaker 1: to think of it like, you know, the people who
Speaker 1: have who had in the eighties the cassio keyboards that
Speaker 1: had like the little rhythms and the tempo and all
Speaker 1: the buttons and stuff where they could make up stuff
Speaker 1: and then change the chords with like one or two
Speaker 1: keys in the bottom and then play stuff. I kind
Speaker 1: of tend to think of it like that. But then
Speaker 1: they listened to some of these songs and and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: those are really really good. I mean, I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: they're good, like I would listen to them over and
Speaker 1: over again, like this is a great.
Speaker 3: It's like it's not like Marvin Gay good, you know.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, so I just.
Speaker 2: Let's find another artist.
Speaker 3: Oh is it not like he's fantastic, that's my point.
Speaker 3: Was a musical genius? Good. Yeah. I say that because
Speaker 3: I read an interesting interview with him where he was like,
Speaker 3: music producers are not getting better, you know any Uh?
Speaker 3: This gentleman that I gave, he's the only to Ben Jordan.
Speaker 3: He's one of my favorite and he'll become one of
Speaker 3: your favorite YouTubers. He's an amazing musician and he's also
Speaker 3: kind of like a scientist, and he understands a lot
Speaker 3: of the things that you're talking about, and one of
Speaker 3: them is AI and he'll actually like take a, take a,
Speaker 3: take a. He'll buy a sample from He's got a
Speaker 3: show where he buys a sample from like one of
Speaker 3: the vendors that you can buy samples from, put it
Speaker 3: on his device, make his track out of it, and
Speaker 3: play it back to one of those like is it
Speaker 3: is it copy written? You know? Tools? Yeah, and it
Speaker 3: will identify the it will identify like seven or eight
Speaker 3: different artists that those sounds came from.
Speaker 2: Wow, And he's like, what do we do? Like you
Speaker 2: just watch me make this?
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I was occurring to me. I was
Speaker 1: listening to a show where people on the radio were
Speaker 1: talking about trying to curb the creation of deep fakes
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff with copyright, but there seemed
Speaker 1: to they seem to be more interested in copyright infringement
Speaker 1: than deep fakes themselves. Like I'm I'm really concerned about
Speaker 1: somebody who could, for example, take your voice from this
Speaker 1: podcast and then any video that you have on the
Speaker 1: Internet of you talking and you know, turning into a
Speaker 1: confession of a crime or something like that, and then
Speaker 1: bring use that as evidence in a court of law.
Speaker 1: I'm really concerned about that. And it seems to me
Speaker 1: like if there's something out there that can identify pieces
Speaker 1: of a song as being you know, copyright infringement, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be cool? And I mean world change, like life
Speaker 1: changing if there was something where you could upload an
Speaker 1: image or a video and say, has this been generated
Speaker 1: by an AI and the tool maybe only with the
Speaker 1: tool that could have generated it, right, would have to
Speaker 1: have analysis deep enough to say, oh, well, it looks
Speaker 1: like this piece came from this source, and this piece
Speaker 1: came from this source.
Speaker 2: But I don't think they do.
Speaker 1: But if such a tool existed, we wouldn't have to
Speaker 1: worry so much about, you know, impinging on people's rights
Speaker 1: to create stuff.
Speaker 2: Yes, let's say it.
Speaker 1: Let's face it, that's a good thing when people can
Speaker 1: create things. But but then we would have a tool
Speaker 1: where people could defend themselves against being you know, faked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's sort of like EXIF data for like
Speaker 3: like videos, but for wow, just yeah, see here's what
Speaker 3: and see here here's why I think that you'd really
Speaker 3: be onto something there. There are a series of podcasts
Speaker 3: about partly it's a very dark topic for your show,
Speaker 3: but the shows about folks who they get an it job.
Speaker 3: You know, they like live in country food and they
Speaker 3: get an it job and then they're like taking in
Speaker 3: a bus with a whole bunch of other people to
Speaker 3: a building that looks like a hotel but it's actually
Speaker 3: kind of a prison and they have to hang out there.
Speaker 3: Those places. I've listened to a few podcasts about those places.
Speaker 3: Harrifying stories have They use those types of AI to
Speaker 3: manipulate people into scams like that, you know, right, and
Speaker 3: especially on.
Speaker 1: The phone, you know, they find examples of I don't
Speaker 1: know somebody on the phone and then they make an
Speaker 1: AI of that and then they call the parents or
Speaker 1: whatever and say, hey, I'm stranded and you know somewhere,
Speaker 1: can you please wire me some money?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was really happy one day when after
Speaker 3: all the time, you know, all the different security works
Speaker 3: that I've done, and.
Speaker 2: I know Barry, so you all know Barry. You know Barry.
Speaker 3: So at some point exactly so at some point, you know,
Speaker 3: my my oldest comes in and he was like, he
Speaker 3: shows me the phone and he goes this year and
Speaker 3: I was like, good, yes, that was me. He walks away.
Speaker 3: It's like a password on me. I was like, yes, I.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: You know what, because I can't and I'm your father,
Speaker 1: brought you into this world, I'll take you out.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was kind of funny. Uh but yeah,
Speaker 3: we've we've we've had some security conversations in the house
Speaker 3: and now they know to come to me whenever they
Speaker 3: get a text saying this is you.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I remember. Richard used to have that issue
Speaker 1: with his daughters if he ever wanted to. Instead of
Speaker 1: grounding them, he just like cut off their internetcess until
Speaker 1: they called him and said, god, Dad.
Speaker 2: Let's let's be clear. Parenting fun at this fundamental level
Speaker 2: is about learning what your children care about and taking
Speaker 2: it away from them. That's right.
Speaker 3: Love is like seventh orright on that list.
Speaker 2: No, No, Usually I just do a VNC remote keyboard
Speaker 2: in mouse control and then write a little box, dear daughter,
Speaker 2: this is your laundry. I'm very sad being scattered all
Speaker 2: over the laundry room. I wish I was clean and
Speaker 2: in the drawers.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's just me thinking of you.
Speaker 2: Or if you just cut it off. We just cut
Speaker 2: it off, and you're.
Speaker 1: So vaine you don't say anything, and then they just
Speaker 1: get to send you a message, says okay, dad.
Speaker 2: He was always very clever. She came down and asked me,
Speaker 2: are you my laundry's conscience. Yeah.
Speaker 3: On the other side of that door is the fourteen
Speaker 3: year olds the laundry. You know, doors closed for living.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know. Have you played around with the co pilot
Speaker 1: c L I.
Speaker 3: I have not played around with the I'm embarrassed to say.
Speaker 1: It's it's like so stinking new as of its recording
Speaker 1: that the only person who knows anything about it is Handsoman.
Speaker 3: He showed showed it to me the other day. A
Speaker 3: team might have not showed it to me the other day.
Speaker 3: He's involved in some upcoming things that I think, but
Speaker 3: I I want it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks pretty good. Fritz and I might do
Speaker 1: a show about it next week.
Speaker 3: But see, is it behind like some locked door or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I will know later to day or tomorrow,
Speaker 1: I'm sure let me know.
Speaker 2: Signal. Yeah, I'd like to have it.
Speaker 3: I'd like to have it cool.
Speaker 2: That would be cool. All these different There are too
Speaker 2: many co pilots, man, Like, it is hard. I know,
Speaker 2: it is hard to keep track of that many planes. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I came home and I was like kind of complaining
Speaker 3: to my wife, and I was like, you know, it's
Speaker 3: super annoying that there's like I can do all these
Speaker 3: things with co pilot, and there's the stuff that I
Speaker 3: want to do with my MIDI and my CV that
Speaker 3: I can't do. I smile, and I was like, so
Speaker 3: I used I used so I used co pilot to
Speaker 3: design a three D rendering of the MIDI to CV device.
Speaker 3: I think I'm going to figure out.
Speaker 1: That control voltage control have a controlled synthesizers and after.
Speaker 3: Uh and then the next day I saw that device somebody.
Speaker 2: But that's the whole thing you're speaking about. Now we
Speaker 2: can start just describing the problem we have and these
Speaker 2: tools can help us, even if necessarily get to a
Speaker 2: point of creating hardware around it exactly.
Speaker 1: I had chat GPT write me a Windows console app
Speaker 1: that plays a midifile. Simple, but it worked. And I
Speaker 1: did that to diagnose a problem that I found was
Speaker 1: in my DAW, my digital audio workstation, that this particular
Speaker 1: midifile wasn't being played correctly, and my little C sharp
Speaker 1: player played it just fine.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the whole piano thing that I talked about, Richard.
Speaker 2: I have a piano.
Speaker 1: You see this piano back here, Brady. So it's a
Speaker 1: Baby Grand It's Yamaha C nine I think I can't
Speaker 1: remember the name, but anyway, it has the symphony, which
Speaker 1: is a MIDI controller, and there's a selenoid under every key,
Speaker 1: and so not only does it act as a MIDI controller,
Speaker 1: but it will receive MIDI and then play like a
Speaker 1: player piano nice and I have and it's it's older,
Speaker 1: and it has this problem and I really couldn't figure
Speaker 1: out what it was. But when I used it as
Speaker 1: a mini controller to record a MIDI file and then
Speaker 1: played it back from the DAW, it would the the
Speaker 1: sequence of a.
Speaker 2: Pedal controller up and.
Speaker 1: Down would be out of time, right, and so it
Speaker 1: would basically hold like there there was some weirdness about it.
Speaker 1: So I basically what I wanted to do with this
Speaker 1: is have a MIDI file of the artist recording UH
Speaker 1: in you know, with a drummer, because the drums aren't
Speaker 1: open Mike and pianos open mic everybody else can go
Speaker 1: direct and UH and then edit with MIDI and then
Speaker 1: play it back and record it at the same time.
Speaker 1: And that wasn't working. So what I did is I
Speaker 1: have this little tool that I wrote that can playback
Speaker 1: a MIDI file and record and a wave file in
Speaker 1: stereo from that input the microphone input at the same
Speaker 1: time there in sync.
Speaker 3: It's pretty money and I solve the problem that way.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: That's good. But I love that because who does that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well, I remember one of the first things that I
Speaker 3: would chatted with you guys about in Orlando, in fact,
Speaker 3: was this idea that I had of doing like remote
Speaker 3: mini sync between devices.
Speaker 2: Right, and.
Speaker 3: Jamie ended up getting it working, but using signalare. So
Speaker 3: you signal are to pump it over a CTP and
Speaker 3: then like have a client that would just feed that
Speaker 3: over like to MIDI and I was like, hey, it's
Speaker 3: just three bites, like it would totally work.
Speaker 2: But it's sync though it's not.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't be insane. It's too slow. It's too slow
Speaker 3: to be in sync because I think, like anybody who's
Speaker 3: a drummer, I think it's like six milliseconds and you
Speaker 3: feel it, you know what I mean, So you know
Speaker 3: it's like it's never gonna work.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember we figured that out as the bar.
Speaker 3: We were like, okay, so you're going to have at
Speaker 3: least a nintisecond to get from the device.
Speaker 2: Not anosecond. Up is better.
Speaker 1: Although I actually have a balan that uses Cat six
Speaker 1: cable to go long distances where I can plug a
Speaker 1: midian a MIDI out on one side, mini and mini
Speaker 1: on the other.
Speaker 2: But how long is long distance?
Speaker 1: One hundred yards, like way more than a MIDI cable.
Speaker 1: And I actually use that to go around the room
Speaker 1: in the studio from my machine to the piano and
Speaker 1: it works great. It's pretty much instantaneous. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what the millisecond delay is, but you
Speaker 1: can't tell, but.
Speaker 2: That could be in the millisecond range. Shine, it's not
Speaker 2: like you're going across the ocean. Yeah you know, now
Speaker 2: it's two hundred milliseconds and everybody knows.
Speaker 1: Well, if you're going across the ocean, I think your best.
Speaker 2: Bet would be UDIP. Yeah, it helps, but it's just I.
Speaker 1: Could tell you a joke about UDP, but you might
Speaker 1: not get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice, but if you tell it twice, the chances
Speaker 2: will ride once.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: That's gonna see what he did?
Speaker 3: What's a this awesome wedding the other day? It was
Speaker 3: these two people who were both Wi Fi technicians. There
Speaker 3: were something that was awesome.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be the all dad joke show. That's
Speaker 2: what it's gonna be.
Speaker 3: I don't know where it is.
Speaker 2: All right, well, five minutes left. Anything else you want
Speaker 2: to talk about before we hit the road? What have
Speaker 2: we not talked about? Work wise? Here?
Speaker 3: I can't really think anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like kind of got through the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's I don't know when the show airs,
Speaker 3: but it's the beginning of November four, so it's the
Speaker 3: beginning of conference season, in the beginning of like, oh wow,
Speaker 3: we did a lot this year, Like how are you here? As?
Speaker 3: Was it wild?
Speaker 2: The roster for that confience crazy, like there's so much
Speaker 2: in it and we haven't seen it officially yet, but
Speaker 2: you know, they it'll be out by the time this
Speaker 2: show is.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be. It's gonna be.
Speaker 1: It actually says on the calendar here that this will
Speaker 1: be out next Thursday, the thirteenth, next week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, which is the week of dot com So
Speaker 2: I hope you had done net comfy. I know we did. Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, we loved it. Great time.
Speaker 3: I'm recording the keynote, Denno right now, are my stanza
Speaker 3: of it? Because my stands up of it's hours long.
Speaker 3: It's a it's the process of going through the whole
Speaker 3: like open a framework app, convert it to dot at
Speaker 3: ten uh, and then put it through the paces of
Speaker 3: migrating it like moving your like getting off Windows a
Speaker 3: D and getting on intra ad or getting on intra
Speaker 3: id pard me sorry guys, and then like getting off
Speaker 3: sql local and getting in squl azure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So it's been, it's been. It's been a fun set
Speaker 3: of a fun set of recordings. They aren't they aren't quick,
Speaker 3: but they're quicker than doing it yourself. That's one of
Speaker 3: the things we were talking about with spect Kid is
Speaker 3: it'll give you the different like, hey, this phase is
Speaker 3: going to take you two weeks to do, and you go, okay,
Speaker 3: do phase one and I'll go make a coffee and
Speaker 3: you come back and plays ones. Yeah, yeah, think of
Speaker 3: the time it siting.
Speaker 2: That's cool. Yeah, that's the kind of bursts that we're getting, right,
Speaker 2: It's just like suddenly this thing is done, and I'll
Speaker 2: make sure I include a link to a good hubspec kit.
Speaker 2: But go back and listen to the show we did
Speaker 2: with them on it as well. Yeah, we had a
Speaker 2: we had a great conversation for that.
Speaker 1: We had some good comments on Hybrid talk about that too,
Speaker 1: about that show that we're probably going to have to
Speaker 1: bring up in a couple of you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of shows from now or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're talking about fundamentally changing the way folks
Speaker 2: do development. And that's not an easy thing. Like people
Speaker 2: are really struggling with what's right, what's you know, what's
Speaker 2: the logical approach of this? Does this make any sense?
Speaker 2: You know, you're still seeing wholesayed folks are not our
Speaker 2: posed to it.
Speaker 1: While I was in Orlando at dev Intersection, Richard I
Speaker 1: sat down and talked to Brian Noyes for a while
Speaker 1: and we were talking about the whole AI and the
Speaker 1: role of developers like our age in AI, and I
Speaker 1: brought up my idea of that we're no longer, you know,
Speaker 1: carpenters were more like general contractors.
Speaker 2: Right. We have we hire all the different.
Speaker 1: Pages to do the work, but we know we have
Speaker 1: to know enough about building houses in order to be
Speaker 1: able to supervise and to inspect and all of that
Speaker 1: stuff and to know when they're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1: And Brian said, man, I love that analogy. I'm going
Speaker 1: to steal that. And so literally two days ago or
Speaker 1: three days ago, I saw a post on LinkedIn by
Speaker 1: Don Demsak, remember Don xml, Yeah, and he said the
Speaker 1: same exact thing. He said, we're like general contractors. And
Speaker 1: so this is resonating. And I probably am not the
Speaker 1: first one to use this metaphor now, but it's really
Speaker 1: true that you know, you have to think of yourself
Speaker 1: in a new role now, and you know what, if
Speaker 1: your plumber is out sick, you got to pick up
Speaker 1: a torch and do the job.
Speaker 2: But in general, yeah, and you may even have a
Speaker 2: strength in trade, you know, lots of developers are using
Speaker 2: these tools and still writing pieces of the code they
Speaker 2: either want or write, or that they find that generators
Speaker 2: really struggle with. And so this is the part you
Speaker 2: got to write. Yep. But there's plenty of toil ish
Speaker 2: code you know, you need that the tools can make
Speaker 2: for you and one least thing you need to do,
Speaker 2: and you can keep moving forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what, from the people that I
Speaker 1: talked to, the demand for good software has never been higher.
Speaker 2: No, no, this is the same effect as the post
Speaker 2: Loudite explosion in clothing demand, the expansion in travel, Like
Speaker 2: you can already see an expanding need for software. Yep,
Speaker 2: it's really true.
Speaker 1: So hang in there, kids, don't give up the fight
Speaker 1: and ais no excuse.
Speaker 2: Just be the best you can be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, it's been fun. It's been fun.
Speaker 2: You get the last word? What is it?
Speaker 3: I really like what just Dean said. I think it
Speaker 3: was a build. She said something like let it help
Speaker 3: you amplify your productivity, you know what I mean, like like,
Speaker 3: let it get that stuff out of your way that
Speaker 3: you don't want to do, and also let it do
Speaker 3: the things that you know you need to get you
Speaker 3: need to get done. It can scale out and do
Speaker 3: seven or eight things all you do want. I love
Speaker 3: that general Contractor's cool and we.
Speaker 1: Have the benefit of the compiler as the fact checker, right.
Speaker 3: Or if you need it to be like a musical thing,
Speaker 3: you're the conductor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It's an orchestra and you're.
Speaker 3: The MIDI controller.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: All the gen Z people are like, what's MIDI? What
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Oh, Brady Gasser. It's been an
Speaker 1: absolute gas having you on the show and talking about
Speaker 1: all these things.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you. That's been great, right,
Speaker 2: you bet, and we'll talk to you next time on
Speaker 2: dot net rocks.
Speaker 1: Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net
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Speaker 1: back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand
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Speaker 2: They keep us in business. Now go write some code.
Speaker 2: See you next time.
Speaker 1: You got javans at