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<v Speaker 1>How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads?

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<v Speaker 2>Easy?

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<v Speaker 1>Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

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<v Speaker 1>shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. We'll get

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<v Speaker 1>you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign

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<v Speaker 1>up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey

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<v Speaker 1>guess what, it's dot net rocks all over again.

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<v Speaker 2>It keeps happening. I'm Carl, Carl Franklin, and I'm Richard Campbell.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Richard Campbell. Richard, you're not home now. I'm in

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<v Speaker 2>New Zealand. I'm this is the we're recording needs in November,

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<v Speaker 2>and I am got the grandbaby with me and her

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<v Speaker 2>parents and we are visiting all the extended family and

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<v Speaker 2>traveling around the North Island. That's nice. Then we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>head over to Australia for a few days as well

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<v Speaker 2>and see the Coogans and the Hunts. Nice and then

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<v Speaker 2>we'll we'll leave home at the end of November. How

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<v Speaker 2>old is the little baby? Seven months? She's doing really great.

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<v Speaker 2>Little little baby's do just thriving. She's enjoying herself.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and now this is your cousin's kid.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, this is my granddaughter.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, oh oh, your granddaughter's with you there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. Oh that was the whole point. Bring the granddaughter,

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<v Speaker 2>see my mom, and I'm my uncle and aunt and

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<v Speaker 2>all that. But my cousin here that runs the farm

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<v Speaker 2>where we're staying, has two little boys who are three

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<v Speaker 2>and five, and they are absolutely enamored of her. For

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<v Speaker 2>an obvious reason, the thing that would matter most to boys.

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<v Speaker 2>They handed her a remote control for one of the

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<v Speaker 2>dump trucks, and the seven month old, not even know

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<v Speaker 2>what a button is, grabbed it in a way that

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<v Speaker 2>hit the button full boar, ran the dump truck into

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<v Speaker 2>her father's leg. And now these two boys think she's

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest baby of all time.

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<v Speaker 1>That must have been hilarious, hilarious, hilarious.

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<v Speaker 2>But they've been very sweeter, and she's just loving having

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<v Speaker 2>little kids around her. So she's having a blast.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember when Claire was a little girl. This is

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<v Speaker 1>my second The only thing that would make her laugh

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<v Speaker 1>was when I hurt myself.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, made me laugh too, for faked hurting myself? Right,

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<v Speaker 2>that's it? Yeah, No, crack her up, right, yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 2>the best. All right.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're in New Zealand. So I had any good lamb.

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<v Speaker 2>Not a bit? No. I remember, I'm on a dairy farm.

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<v Speaker 2>The freezer is full of beef. Yeah, okay, really good

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<v Speaker 2>beef too, all right? Cool?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, when you have some nice lamb, think of

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<v Speaker 1>me take a selfie.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, I will.

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<v Speaker 1>Brady Gaster's here with us, but we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to him in a few minutes. First, we have a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of things to discuss. First of all, this is

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<v Speaker 1>episode nineteen seventy six, and so let's talk about what

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<v Speaker 1>happened that year. Well in America, that is our bi centennial.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. Yeah, and it was an election year too.

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<v Speaker 2>This is when Jimmy Carter gets elected. Jimmy Carter. God,

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<v Speaker 2>that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And Apple Computer Company and Microsoft were both incorporated in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy six.

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<v Speaker 2>True yep. And Apple releases Wosney Ak and jobs make

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<v Speaker 2>the Apple one, a single board computer, which they sell

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred of almost immediately, and then announced the Apple two.

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll talk about that next show.

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<v Speaker 1>So Sylvester Stallone began filming Rocky, which would become an

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<v Speaker 1>iconic sports drama and the first commercial flights of the concord. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>took place. In other bad news, the first recorded outbreak

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<v Speaker 1>of the e BOWLA virus occurred in Sudan, leading to

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred and eighty four cases. And they didn't even

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<v Speaker 1>have Burger King.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh jeez, that's dark man, That is dark. Naia Komeny.

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<v Speaker 1>The gymnasts scored the first perfect ten in Olympic history

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<v Speaker 1>during the Summer Olympics in Montreal. I remember seeing her

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<v Speaker 1>and watching that on television and I was not eight

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<v Speaker 1>nine years old, right, I was nine years old like you. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Sal Bellow received the Nobel Prize for his contributions to literature,

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<v Speaker 1>and Betty Williams and Myriad Corrigan were awarded for their

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<v Speaker 1>efforts and peace activism.

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<v Speaker 2>Cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, there's a lot more. But what happened in

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<v Speaker 1>space and tech?

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<v Speaker 2>Richard. On the space side, the first chest shuttle OV

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<v Speaker 2>one oh one, originally named Constitution, was rolled out, but

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<v Speaker 2>due to a letter writing campaign by a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>Star Trek fans, is renamed Enterprise. Oh that's great. Also

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<v Speaker 2>in seventy six, Viking one and Viking two going to

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<v Speaker 2>orbit around Mars. They have an orbiter piece that does

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<v Speaker 2>surveillance and communications and then sends down a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>lander each these or twelve hundred pund landers. So they

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<v Speaker 2>were big powered and land successfully on the surface of Mars,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course the Martians blew them up and not

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<v Speaker 2>They landed just fine. Everything was fine. You know, we

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<v Speaker 2>could go deeper into some of the mission, some of

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<v Speaker 2>the exploit they did. One of their attempts was to

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<v Speaker 2>prove there was life on Mars. The results were very inconclusive,

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<v Speaker 2>and with our new sensors, we've later come to understand

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<v Speaker 2>that the chemical reactions of the perchlorates and the soils

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<v Speaker 2>of Mars would have confused the instruments on Viking. Well

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<v Speaker 2>there you go. Were on the computer side, we already

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned the Apple one definitely important is also the year

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<v Speaker 2>that the Intel eighty eighty is released. I put one

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<v Speaker 2>of those in an ne S one hundred bus machine

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<v Speaker 2>and the z log Z eighty.

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<v Speaker 1>The Z eighty, Yeah, I think my ts TRS eighty

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<v Speaker 1>Model four.

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<v Speaker 2>How does ED eighty and it absolutely so did mine.

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<v Speaker 2>This is also a year that CPM is released that

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<v Speaker 2>Gary Kildoll at Digital Research in his team, and CPM

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<v Speaker 2>is the precursor to DOS, isn't it Well, DOS emulated CPM.

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<v Speaker 2>CPM was just flying on its own. Yeah. The first

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<v Speaker 2>version they have, the ibmpc that I ever played with

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<v Speaker 2>was running CPM, not MS dots.

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<v Speaker 1>And also I had a friend who had a TRS

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<v Speaker 1>eighty Model three that ran CPM.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they all could, and then no one. Last one

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<v Speaker 2>would be the Seymour kre. The very first crazy supercomputer

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<v Speaker 2>is built for the US government. It is about a

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<v Speaker 2>ten million dollar computer in nineteen seventy six. Oh my,

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<v Speaker 2>and the machine is curved to minimize the length of

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<v Speaker 2>the wiring to optimize for performance. Wow, first generation supercomputing.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, well, let's waste no more time and get

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<v Speaker 1>right to better no framework, roll.

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<v Speaker 2>The music, all right, dude, what do you got?

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<v Speaker 1>So this came to us from one arn On axel Rod,

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<v Speaker 1>and thank you Arnon for bringing this to our attention.

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<v Speaker 2>This is python net past. Guess this is cool? What

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<v Speaker 2>is python net? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Python net. Python net is provides interrout between Python and

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<v Speaker 1>dot net in both directions. Oh cool, And it's a

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<v Speaker 1>GitHub repo and we'll paste the link to that. So

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<v Speaker 1>of course you can call dot net code from Python

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<v Speaker 1>and you can call python code or embed Python in

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<v Speaker 1>dot net, right, awesome, call python from.

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<v Speaker 2>So they could be friends. So there you go.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know this is good because dt net developers,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we're kind of spoiled if you're just a

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<v Speaker 1>dot net developer, right, anytime you have some new cool

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<v Speaker 1>tool that says, oh you gotta download Python, like uh,

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta what or oh you got to run node.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, being a polyglot, you kind of have

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<v Speaker 1>to do those kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 2>But sure, you used to speaking JavaScript and you can

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<v Speaker 2>handle some seqel. You can handle a little Python. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not going to hurt anybody. It's not going to hurt anybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Go fine, you'll be fine. It'll be fun. Right. Plus,

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<v Speaker 2>you know all the kids are doing Python these days. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>all the cool ones anyway, all the cool ones, especially

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<v Speaker 2>the universities. And that I write more Python that I

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<v Speaker 2>care to admit to. Yeah, but you know, I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a data muna, right, and so I write a

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<v Speaker 2>little Python myself. I like my Jupiter notebooks.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, awesome, here you go, So go learn it, know it,

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<v Speaker 1>learn it, love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Who's talking to us today? Richard grabbed a comment off

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<v Speaker 2>a show eighteen fifty one, which you did back in

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<v Speaker 2>June twenty three with Savannah Ostrowski, which I did. I

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<v Speaker 2>think we did at as show. I'm not sure, maybe not,

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<v Speaker 2>but we were talking about the Azure Developer CLI. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know we're talking to Brady Day, who is

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<v Speaker 2>all about developers and Azure and working all the things together.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was particularly relevant to me because there was

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<v Speaker 2>a recent outage on with Azure front Door that was

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<v Speaker 2>reaking a lot of havoc for asking the portal and stuff. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>But one of the teams I was working with does

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<v Speaker 2>all their employee deployees through the az dev CLI. They

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<v Speaker 2>were totally unaffected. They didn't need to get they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>need to go through front door, so they were happy

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<v Speaker 2>go and command line for deployment. Makes your life better.

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<v Speaker 2>But Edward Keelholtz, who we know it in fact, I

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<v Speaker 2>just saw him while I was in Europe, had this

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<v Speaker 2>comment this gain from a couple of years ago, where

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<v Speaker 2>he says, hey, the az Dev CLI lowers the barber

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<v Speaker 2>embracing the Azured cloud environment. Using the CLI allows people

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<v Speaker 2>new to Azure to generate full blown and serious infras

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<v Speaker 2>code solutions. I'm just wondering if you always should. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're not familiar with a certain cloud product, you should

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<v Speaker 2>be careful deploying it. It's easy to not secure the

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<v Speaker 2>service properly, or you just put it in a straight

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<v Speaker 2>v net. And I think the CLI will be strong

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<v Speaker 2>in deploying app service plans before it deploys a web app,

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<v Speaker 2>but it will also advise you, will advise you to

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<v Speaker 2>put a web application firewall in front. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if it does right now that maybe it should. CLI

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<v Speaker 2>is a nice tool to get going faster, but you

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<v Speaker 2>need to know what you're doing to protect yourself from

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<v Speaker 2>security issues and high bill.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an old story. Richard and Patrick Hines likes to

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<v Speaker 1>say convenience is the enemy of security and vice versa.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're going to secure it, that means you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to have to enter your passwords and all that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff a lot more than you want to.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know it's going to be a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>more secure, so you're right.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I would also argue in favor of this

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<v Speaker 2>sort of repeatabil AUDI. You know, command line stuff. As

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<v Speaker 2>long as you follow all the steps you should follow,

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<v Speaker 2>it only can be very secure. It's also very consistent

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<v Speaker 2>and reliable. Yes, so you know, I just I'm keen

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<v Speaker 2>on doing the same thing every time. And if you

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<v Speaker 2>haven't ever listened to that show, like go Back Over thirty,

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<v Speaker 2>you know it's episode eighteen fifty one, and Savannah provided

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<v Speaker 2>it is a great list of links for different tools,

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<v Speaker 2>including the developer, CLI templates and things that'll just get

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<v Speaker 2>you into good practices. Yeah, so, Edward, thank you so

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<v Speaker 2>much for your comment, and a copy of music Cobuy

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<v Speaker 2>is on its way to you. And if you'd like

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<v Speaker 2>a copy of music cobe I write a comment on

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<v Speaker 2>the website at don at Rocks dot com or on

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<v Speaker 2>the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if you

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<v Speaker 2>comment there and I read on the show, we'll send

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<v Speaker 2>you a copy of music go by.

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<v Speaker 1>And believe it or not, I have started Music to

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<v Speaker 1>Code by track number twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it. Yeah, I've started it. If you so

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<v Speaker 2>often you get an itch for this, right like you

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<v Speaker 2>sort of, it's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I have

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<v Speaker 2>started it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's pretty cool, you know, and it's just going

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<v Speaker 1>to take a Saturday or something like that to sit

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<v Speaker 1>down and finish it. But Music to Code By there's

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two tracks. You can get the entire collection an

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<v Speaker 1>MP three wave or FLAK format from Music to Code

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<v Speaker 1>by dot Net. And of course, the whole point of

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<v Speaker 1>it is to help you get into a state of

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<v Speaker 1>flow while you're writing code and it works.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's been a while since you've posted a

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<v Speaker 2>YouTube video about you making music of any kind. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you ought to just record making that track. That's not

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<v Speaker 2>a bad idea. You might want to edit down or something.

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<v Speaker 2>I just see people will be fascinated to see the

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<v Speaker 2>process you go through. Sure, that's a pretty crazy idea,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, I'd watch it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, you and a couple other people and.

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<v Speaker 2>Me and a couple of my friends. You know, what

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<v Speaker 2>do you want? What do you want?

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<v Speaker 1>Brady was smiling as we were talking about Azure Cli.

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<v Speaker 1>So let me introduce Brady right now, base near Seattle,

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<v Speaker 1>Brady Gaster aspires to make it easy for dot net

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<v Speaker 1>developers to party in the cloud. As the product manager

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<v Speaker 1>behind Visual Studios, Azure Wright, Click Publish, and Connected Services features.

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<v Speaker 1>He also helps with Aspire tooling support and Visual Studio

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<v Speaker 1>and Visual Studio code. And we're not designing new tooling

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<v Speaker 1>features or building demos with teammates. He's trail running five

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<v Speaker 1>k's Wow, parenting two teens and mixing new one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and seventy four beat per minute drum and bass sets

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<v Speaker 1>or producing his own electronic music.

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<v Speaker 2>And I can vouch for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Brady and I were geeking out before you got on

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<v Speaker 1>the show music Makers. Yeah, yeah, Brady, welcome.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, thank you. I've had like the whole series

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<v Speaker 3>of like nostalgic moments throughout this conversation, like you mentioned, uh,

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<v Speaker 3>you mentioned the until eighty eighty.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>The other day we went to I don't know if

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<v Speaker 3>you've ever been to like old school renting whenever you've

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<v Speaker 3>been in town.

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<v Speaker 2>Not recently. They have this this that used to be

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<v Speaker 2>just you all use car lots back in the day.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how old schools. Like.

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<v Speaker 3>This is like a little part of town. And they've

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<v Speaker 3>got this place called eight Bit Arcade.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it.

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<v Speaker 3>And they've got been there. It's cool, amazing, it's amazing.

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<v Speaker 3>So they've got all these like old, old and new

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<v Speaker 3>pinball machines and like my wife basically blew like ten

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<v Speaker 3>bucks on this back man frogger or whatever. And the

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<v Speaker 3>one that I fell in love with was this game

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<v Speaker 3>called Gunfight, and I was like tripping out on this game.

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<v Speaker 3>And basically it's a quarter and it's two player automatically,

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<v Speaker 3>and the stick goes up and down, and then you

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<v Speaker 3>got another stick where you can aim the gun and

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<v Speaker 3>then you hit the button to like shoot or you

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<v Speaker 3>pull the trigger to shoot, and you've got ten shots,

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<v Speaker 3>and you're shooting through like these cactuses and this like

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<v Speaker 3>station stage coach, and like you only get like ten shots,

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<v Speaker 3>and if you're it's super like super like super Pong

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<v Speaker 3>level graphics, you know what I mean. So that game

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<v Speaker 3>was called Gunfight. But what was exciting about it is

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<v Speaker 3>it was the first game to ever be built on

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<v Speaker 3>a microprocessor, and the microprocessor was the eighty eight, right,

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<v Speaker 3>And and it was also the game that influenced like

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<v Speaker 3>Techan moratl Kombat, because it was the first game that

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<v Speaker 3>had to go ahead to head, like it was like

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<v Speaker 3>one side versus the other side a street fighter, and

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<v Speaker 3>like all those games are like influence.

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<v Speaker 2>We are we are with the stories of the show

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<v Speaker 2>numbers starting to bump into the history of video games.

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<v Speaker 2>I got to make sure I include all of that

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<v Speaker 2>because we did call out the first Pong and Colossal

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<v Speaker 2>adventure and so forth, because it's all part of computer

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<v Speaker 2>history too.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, next show is going to be fantastic.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been taking notes for it.

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<v Speaker 1>So to get back to this arcade. I think it

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<v Speaker 1>was Glenn Block that took us there last time we went.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's this big warehouse, right and maybe what eight

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<v Speaker 1>or nine rows of games?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that? The kind of is that the place?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking that one's in Las Vegas. I'm sorry, that's

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<v Speaker 1>Las Vegas. Yeah, that's that.

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<v Speaker 3>That place is dope too, But this is like this

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<v Speaker 3>is like a little mom and pop place in like

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<v Speaker 3>old school renting, okay, you know, which is like across

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<v Speaker 3>the street from a tattoo parlor, across the street from

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<v Speaker 3>a coffee shop, you know whatever. Like yeah, so there's

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<v Speaker 3>like terrible parking and like whatever else.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, sure, like tongue is proper.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, it's good.

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<v Speaker 1>So what are you thinking about these days? Brady's mind?

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<v Speaker 3>I'm kind of thinking about the you know, I was

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<v Speaker 3>chatting with Richard and Lisbon my first time in Lisbon

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<v Speaker 3>a couple of weeks back, and uh, beautiful, I was

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<v Speaker 3>I was thinking about kind of the the intersection between

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<v Speaker 3>you know, dot net and Azure as always because I've

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<v Speaker 3>been in you know, dot a land since just after

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<v Speaker 3>the Obama administration, and uh, I felt like it was

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<v Speaker 3>like time to start working over in azreg and I've

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<v Speaker 3>been like the Azure dot guy and the dot net

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<v Speaker 3>team for a while, you know, helping out with the

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<v Speaker 3>tooling side of that. But you know, it was one

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<v Speaker 3>day I was kind of sitting on the on the

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<v Speaker 3>on the at the kitchen bar talking to my wife

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<v Speaker 3>and I said, it's interesting, you know, VJ, my engineering manager,

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<v Speaker 3>and I are in the process of kind of creating

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<v Speaker 3>like more of an agentic experience in the chat window.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like you're texting to the cloud, you know, give

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<v Speaker 3>me you know, give me a web back, give me

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<v Speaker 3>a Davis. And it's it's working really well, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>also kind of creating and existential. I'm like, this is

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<v Speaker 3>really good, Like I can imagine this like going away

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<v Speaker 3>and not going away for like you know, this this

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<v Speaker 3>this way of going you know, going to the problem.

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<v Speaker 3>And she said, how does that feel? I was like

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<v Speaker 3>kind of weird, like I think you do, find something

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<v Speaker 3>else to work on. And then it was modernization, So

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<v Speaker 3>now like that got between that interchange between modernizing your

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<v Speaker 3>applications and you know, you know, bringing them from you know,

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<v Speaker 3>dot net framework to dot net you know, core and beyond,

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<v Speaker 3>which you know I've talked to you all about since

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<v Speaker 3>as long as I've been at Microsoft. You know, that's

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<v Speaker 3>something we we've all done in our consulting world. But

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<v Speaker 3>that's what I'm gonna be doing now is kind of

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<v Speaker 3>working on the architecture side with some folks covering the

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the the Azure side, uh, you know, to

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<v Speaker 3>kind of make it easier for folks to kind of

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<v Speaker 3>modernize not just one app or two apps, but two

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<v Speaker 3>hundred apps, two thousand.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this was a big part of the Azure Depth

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<v Speaker 2>some I think it was part of the keynote is

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<v Speaker 2>is how do we harness these I'm just going to

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<v Speaker 2>call them code generators rady honestly because it takes a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the science fiction out of this.

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<v Speaker 3>It does.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a new generation of code generators that are

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<v Speaker 2>really good at parsing certain kinds of code. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you say, hey, take this dot nep for eight app,

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<v Speaker 2>and what does it look like as a dot net

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<v Speaker 2>nine or heck, dot net ten app? And the tool

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<v Speaker 2>goes to work and does a bunch of the heavy

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<v Speaker 2>lifting for you. Doesn't do everything, but it does quite

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<v Speaker 2>a bit, right, that's kind a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a process of iteration. Absolutely, you can't just expect

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<v Speaker 1>it to un first.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, pass exactly. One of the things I like

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<v Speaker 3>about it is you can y'all are probably heard of

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<v Speaker 3>spec Kit, something we've talked about also the show. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>good good, Yeah, Well, I like the idea of spec

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<v Speaker 3>in conjunction with things like, you know, modernizing your apps,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, worked on an experiment that was kind

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<v Speaker 3>of inspired by it. Not I cloned their repo or anything,

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<v Speaker 3>but it was, you know, the same kind of idea.

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<v Speaker 3>It was interesting, you know, how far you could get.

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<v Speaker 3>But at the end of the day, I think, I

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<v Speaker 3>think you're right, and I see a lot of the

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<v Speaker 3>tools leaning in on that SPEC driven thing. Now it's like,

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<v Speaker 3>don't just ask me one, don't expect you you can

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<v Speaker 3>get what you want in one question.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>You know what I mean. Build you know, build me

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<v Speaker 3>a banking app with support for at MS or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>g r p C.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, no, yeah, let's break it down.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right, it down. So if you if you

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<v Speaker 3>work with the AI to like write those write those

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<v Speaker 3>specs out. It's it's a lot more iterative to you know,

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<v Speaker 3>a lot more manageable.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just like writing a novel. I mean, I would

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<v Speaker 1>think I never wrote a novel, but you know that

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<v Speaker 1>you started out by consulting the AI about an outline,

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<v Speaker 1>and you get an outline together, and then you slowly

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<v Speaker 1>fill in the details and pieces and see how they

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<v Speaker 1>fit together. It's the same thing, you know, and bite

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<v Speaker 1>off too big a chunk.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep, yep.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought you were gonna say, just like eating an elephant,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of one bite at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, well, I have done that, and it is not easy,

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<v Speaker 1>let me tell you.

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<v Speaker 2>And it took a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>I can imagine. Yeah, it's it's it's been cool to

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<v Speaker 3>kind of see that the intersection and kind of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>do that dance between you know, the wizard approach to

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<v Speaker 3>things and then you know, the agentic approach to things

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<v Speaker 3>and then the augentic approach to a thousand things. It's

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<v Speaker 3>definitely challenging to think about that that process.

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<v Speaker 2>It does It does seem like a because you Microsoft

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<v Speaker 2>has routinely built tools for migration. Yes, you know, migration advisors,

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<v Speaker 2>like all those kinds of things, and they tend to

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<v Speaker 2>be very specific and they get better over time, so

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<v Speaker 2>eventually it gets lower lower a bar, like we're kind

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<v Speaker 2>of sitting on a tool stack now with these new

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<v Speaker 2>tools that they could be more generalized. Certainly, I've I've

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<v Speaker 2>worked hard to get a basic application running, and see

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<v Speaker 2>Sharp with those tools said hey, why don't you make

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<v Speaker 2>us in rush? And it's the switching languages for those

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of tools. They don't care. It's all the same

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<v Speaker 2>to it, right, dude.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember when dot net first came out and there

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<v Speaker 1>was a VB six to VB net converter.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you remember this? Yeah? I remember, yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 2>I knew some of the folks who work on it.

423
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.799
<v Speaker 1>And I was disappointed to see that. What they did

424
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:25.200
<v Speaker 1>is they created a visual Basic interrupt library in dot

425
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:28.880
<v Speaker 1>net that had the keywords for visual Basic six but

426
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.599
<v Speaker 1>dot net arized and then all they did was they

427
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.519
<v Speaker 1>changed it to these you know, keywords or whatever. I

428
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.599
<v Speaker 1>was like, you're not really, you're not really moving to

429
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:40.319
<v Speaker 1>VB net.

430
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:41.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're no.

431
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.480
<v Speaker 1>But now, of course, in twenty twenty five, if there

432
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:48.599
<v Speaker 1>was something like that, and of course there is. I mean,

433
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.599
<v Speaker 1>there's these lms they could just directly convert from one

434
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.920
<v Speaker 1>language to another, like you're talking about Richard, and it's

435
00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:55.799
<v Speaker 1>just so much better.

436
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to someone the other day.

437
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.839
<v Speaker 3>They pulled up a really interesting uh UI component. You know,

438
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.559
<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm in the dot net space. So when

439
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.000
<v Speaker 3>I talk to somebody who's working with, you know, something

440
00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:10.519
<v Speaker 3>not the dot net space, and they pull up a

441
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.440
<v Speaker 3>UI component I haven't seen, I kind of get really excited.

442
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:15.599
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if I don't know if you've ever

443
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.319
<v Speaker 3>seen what is it called? React flow is what it's called.

444
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.880
<v Speaker 3>It's this fantastic react flow. Yeah. React flow. It's this

445
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.200
<v Speaker 3>great component you can set up like you know, like

446
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.359
<v Speaker 3>mind map type apps. And we got to look in

447
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.960
<v Speaker 3>at that, and I was thinking, like, it's really cool.

448
00:21:32.119 --> 00:21:34.000
<v Speaker 3>You can just like toss the a Hey, I want

449
00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:36.000
<v Speaker 3>an app that has a back end that looks like

450
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:38.759
<v Speaker 3>this and the front end that looks like that, and

451
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:40.440
<v Speaker 3>he goes, okay, hang on a second, you know, and

452
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.079
<v Speaker 3>it just kind of like turns that out for you.

453
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.039
<v Speaker 3>That's always really interesting. But I think it's good to

454
00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:46.839
<v Speaker 3>have context, you know, like like for you to kind

455
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.559
<v Speaker 3>of say I want this part, and I want that part,

456
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.000
<v Speaker 3>and I want this part A great yeah, yeah.

457
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.839
<v Speaker 1>You have to go have that, otherwise you might end

458
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.039
<v Speaker 1>up with something that you're not sure what it does

459
00:21:56.200 --> 00:21:56.480
<v Speaker 1>or why.

460
00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:01.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. Do y'all ever say your prompts as you progress?

461
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah?

462
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.200
<v Speaker 3>Ever ever played that game? Okay, okay, that's always interesting.

463
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:06.279
<v Speaker 2>I have a library of prompts.

464
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:06.880
<v Speaker 3>Good.

465
00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:10.319
<v Speaker 1>I have a library of other people's prompts that's opp yeah, yeah,

466
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.519
<v Speaker 1>for for those who are keeping score, and also my

467
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.119
<v Speaker 1>prompts that I've created. But in fact, there's a whole

468
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:21.200
<v Speaker 1>library in GitHub of prompts just that that are for

469
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:24.160
<v Speaker 1>different things that people have created and Microsoft created it.

470
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:26.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, Well I'm more I'm more or less

471
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.039
<v Speaker 3>talking about like you open up you know, follow new

472
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.079
<v Speaker 3>folder you know or whatever. Uh you know, uh, and

473
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:35.759
<v Speaker 3>you start working on a project and you vibe coded

474
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.240
<v Speaker 3>or you spectra you know, you know, whatever you do,

475
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.160
<v Speaker 3>do you save the prompts that you use as you

476
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.319
<v Speaker 3>go along, Like at various points you hit the the

477
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:46.440
<v Speaker 3>new chat window.

478
00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:48.319
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, you know what I mean, only the ones

479
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:53.359
<v Speaker 1>that worked, Okay, I don't save the ones with the result.

480
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Is you stupid little man?

481
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:01.160
<v Speaker 3>I actually did experiment with that. One time. I saved everyone,

482
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.319
<v Speaker 3>and every time I would go there to hit the button,

483
00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:05.920
<v Speaker 3>I would I would, you know, save that prompt It

484
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:10.440
<v Speaker 3>was zero zero one zero zero zero. And then and

485
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:12.839
<v Speaker 3>then I asked it at the very end, I said, Okay,

486
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.160
<v Speaker 3>I want you to make a basically a table of contents,

487
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.720
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean? Okay, that is the kind

488
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.640
<v Speaker 3>of demonstrates the storyline of like how we got here together.

489
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's great, this is like act one, you know.

490
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:27.559
<v Speaker 3>And I also want you to add like kind of

491
00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:30.200
<v Speaker 3>a like a vibe summary, like you know, like like

492
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:32.000
<v Speaker 3>how Brady felt at the end of that. You know

493
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.319
<v Speaker 3>that that phase of the experiment. Wow, it's very interesting

494
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.640
<v Speaker 3>to look back at it and watch and kind of think, wow,

495
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.559
<v Speaker 3>it's an interesting journey, you know. But when I got

496
00:23:38.599 --> 00:23:39.759
<v Speaker 3>out of it, it worked really well.

497
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.720
<v Speaker 1>So every time I talk to people who are using

498
00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.400
<v Speaker 1>these MLMs, I get things like this that I never

499
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.160
<v Speaker 1>thought of that, like that is just such a brilliant idea.

500
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:53.920
<v Speaker 1>But it's just when everything's open ended, sometimes we don't

501
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.519
<v Speaker 1>have because we don't have the constraints.

502
00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Oh exactly.

503
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.799
<v Speaker 1>It's sometimes it's it's difficult to even think of things

504
00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:00.160
<v Speaker 1>like that.

505
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:02.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well well, well if you've looked

506
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.440
<v Speaker 3>up react flow in the last minute and a half

507
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.240
<v Speaker 3>since I mentioned that, because you're curious as to what

508
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:09.599
<v Speaker 3>it looked like, people check it out, you know, like

509
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.640
<v Speaker 3>like like like think about react flow. Okay, last from

510
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:18.279
<v Speaker 3>the past plus the ex SLC arguments list object to

511
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:19.240
<v Speaker 3>create a work.

512
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:21.319
<v Speaker 2>So that hurts my brain.

513
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:30.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh, we basically build biz talk and and and reactalk

514
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 3>is back.

515
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:37.839
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole bunch of millennials going what he because

516
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:40.759
<v Speaker 2>when I think biz talk, I think node and react

517
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:42.079
<v Speaker 2>that's what I think.

518
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:47.200
<v Speaker 3>Wow, It's like it's like it's like those old J

519
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:49.079
<v Speaker 3>and B edge always come back to what you know?

520
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:53.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but you know, look what is our lives

521
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>as developers but getting dated from one place, munging it

522
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.279
<v Speaker 2>in some way and sending it on to another place.

523
00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 2>And that's what you just described, you know, always exactly right.

524
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:06.920
<v Speaker 3>It's like this year's hierarchical, next year it will be

525
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:07.960
<v Speaker 3>in a relational again.

526
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:08.519
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

527
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:13.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so yeah, what's what's what's our next topic? What

528
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:15.559
<v Speaker 3>do we have new shoes here?

529
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Brandy, it's your show man. You tell us what the

530
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.359
<v Speaker 2>next topic is you got a great one? I talked

531
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.640
<v Speaker 2>about Savannah's the story of Azure or dev c l

532
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I and and he worked on that. Did you Uh No,

533
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.400
<v Speaker 2>I was, I was.

534
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:35.680
<v Speaker 3>I was her biggest fan. It's funny, I'm I'm I'm

535
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:39.000
<v Speaker 3>sitting I'm sitting here looking at an azy D script

536
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 3>I just write with help from GBT. Uh. Savannah and

537
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 3>I work together because Uh. At the beginning of Aspire,

538
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.960
<v Speaker 3>I remember saying, guys, I think we need something that

539
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.920
<v Speaker 3>will like talk to a cloud. So like, whatever we

540
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.319
<v Speaker 3>do with like the Aspire at the time it was

541
00:25:57.400 --> 00:25:59.400
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't a manifest yet, whatever we do with a

542
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.799
<v Speaker 3>fire should probably emit some sort of intermediate language that like,

543
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:05.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, Azure could turn into buy SEP and a

544
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:07.720
<v Speaker 3>w S could turn into whatever Google.

545
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:08.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

546
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, And they were like, nah, it's all she's sharp.

547
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, Okay, yeah, that's fine, that's cool.

548
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'll just be here when you're ready to do that,

549
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:20.160
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, when you come to your senses,

550
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:21.440
<v Speaker 2>I'll be right over here.

551
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:24.559
<v Speaker 3>Mitch and I Mitch and I ended up you know,

552
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.039
<v Speaker 3>Mitch filter prototype, and it was it was pretty hot

553
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:30.039
<v Speaker 3>and for reasons it wasn't time for it yet, you

554
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:32.200
<v Speaker 3>know what I mean, So we like didn't do it.

555
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:34.319
<v Speaker 3>But at the time I was talking to Savannah because

556
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.799
<v Speaker 3>you know, she was like, you know, like what's your

557
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:39.599
<v Speaker 3>what's your suggestion for working with this your team or that,

558
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:43.440
<v Speaker 3>like do this you know he likes snickers bars, you know, whatever,

559
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:48.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, and and uh, you know exactly you're getting

560
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.119
<v Speaker 3>the reality of it exactly. That's old Skyka trick, by

561
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.839
<v Speaker 3>the way. But but we we we consulted a lot,

562
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.319
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean. And I was a huge

563
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:00.079
<v Speaker 3>fan of the work that she was doing and in

564
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.039
<v Speaker 3>and in on some of the AI stuff. But at

565
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:05.000
<v Speaker 3>the time, you know, we were like, we need a

566
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:08.599
<v Speaker 3>cool way of deploying you know, Aspire apps to uh

567
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.319
<v Speaker 3>to Azure. So we came up with the way that

568
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:13.680
<v Speaker 3>we we had at first, which was like emitting you know,

569
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:16.400
<v Speaker 3>like working really really tightly with a z D. But

570
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:18.599
<v Speaker 3>it was like such an easy button, you know what

571
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:21.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean. It was like such an easy button for

572
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:22.680
<v Speaker 3>a lot of folks. They kind of wanted to be

573
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:25.240
<v Speaker 3>able to break the glass, you know, myself included what

574
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.680
<v Speaker 3>we have now and Aspire is like amazing, It's like

575
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:28.279
<v Speaker 3>so much.

576
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Better Yeah, it is amazing to rely on a D

577
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.319
<v Speaker 2>as well, but it has other options.

578
00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:35.160
<v Speaker 3>No, you have a lot of other options. I mean,

579
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:37.720
<v Speaker 3>it never relied on a z D like like what

580
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:40.160
<v Speaker 3>you would get out the other end, the easy, the

581
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.519
<v Speaker 3>easy part of it, like whatever you would whatever you

582
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:44.839
<v Speaker 3>get out the other end that would run through AZD.

583
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.039
<v Speaker 1>Can I brag a little bit about about Aspire?

584
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 3>Sure?

585
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:50.880
<v Speaker 2>This week?

586
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I say this week's It was the week of

587
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:59.440
<v Speaker 1>eleven five. Okay, So Jeff Fritz and I did a

588
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 1>code it with AI episode where we basically had a

589
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:09.279
<v Speaker 1>text to t SQL generator and we initially wanted to

590
00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:13.599
<v Speaker 1>use an MCP, but it turned out that it's just

591
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:17.079
<v Speaker 1>not quite ready yet. It's still evolving, and we didn't

592
00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:19.759
<v Speaker 1>want to show people how to install node and then

593
00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:23.519
<v Speaker 1>do all this stuff and it turned out to be complicated.

594
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:28.799
<v Speaker 1>So we basically just used an embedded MCP to get

595
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.720
<v Speaker 1>the table schemas for the four tables that were in

596
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:36.240
<v Speaker 1>our database, and then we use that in the system

597
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:38.559
<v Speaker 1>prompt and that was enough.

598
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:38.920
<v Speaker 2>You know.

599
00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:43.359
<v Speaker 1>We basically said generate t sql from the following text

600
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>prompt and it did it. But the thing about it

601
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.039
<v Speaker 1>was that we used Aspire to spin up an instance

602
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:55.440
<v Speaker 1>of SQL server in a container, and we didn't have

603
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.319
<v Speaker 1>to have Seql on the machine, we didn't have to

604
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.559
<v Speaker 1>have SQL anywhere, Nobody had to have a Sequel license.

605
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:05.359
<v Speaker 1>It went right in the repo and anybody can just

606
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:09.039
<v Speaker 1>download this app, download this code and run it, and

607
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Aspire will fire up the containers and we're running against Sequel.

608
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:16.720
<v Speaker 1>And not only that, but we included the script to

609
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.599
<v Speaker 1>generate the database and it just freaking works.

610
00:29:20.839 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 3>That's cool, that's really And I was so impressed.

611
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.799
<v Speaker 1>I had I didn't know that that was possible, and

612
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.119
<v Speaker 1>I was just so impressed.

613
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.920
<v Speaker 3>That's cool. That's cool. One of the early stupid experiments

614
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:34.119
<v Speaker 3>that we did. Have you all heard about the rust thing.

615
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:35.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, Maddie.

616
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Are you apologizing to Maddie.

617
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:48.720
<v Speaker 3>I don't remember. I don't remember which release it was.

618
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.559
<v Speaker 3>It was like shortly after Maddie had like become the

619
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:58.519
<v Speaker 3>Queen of the Fire. But we, uh, so we were yeah,

620
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:04.000
<v Speaker 3>so we were were. Uh. She was putting together some slides, okay,

621
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.119
<v Speaker 3>and one of the slides was about the community Toolkit,

622
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.599
<v Speaker 3>all right, So she the slide goes up on the

623
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:12.799
<v Speaker 3>screen and I looked at it and I remember doing

624
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:15.559
<v Speaker 3>a double take and immediately I look at my screen

625
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.680
<v Speaker 3>and Jeff Fritz is I ming me and he goes,

626
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.599
<v Speaker 3>I know you saw that. He goes, I know you're

627
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:24.799
<v Speaker 3>going to lose it. It's not what you think it is.

628
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:28.160
<v Speaker 3>And I looked and I went, was that the Face

629
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:32.680
<v Speaker 3>Punch Rust logo? And he said yeah it was. And

630
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:37.359
<v Speaker 3>I was like, is there a face Punch Rust integration

631
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 3>for a spire that nobody told me about? And he

632
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:46.039
<v Speaker 3>said no, Maddie used the wrong logo, right, so.

633
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:50.279
<v Speaker 2>That everybody else can enjoy the joke punch, So right, Yeah.

634
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:54.359
<v Speaker 3>Face Punch is a game studio and they made a

635
00:30:54.400 --> 00:30:56.920
<v Speaker 3>really funny game called Gary's Mod. It's built on top

636
00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.559
<v Speaker 3>of the Unity with the with the intention of like

637
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:03.079
<v Speaker 3>super extending the game and like making it whatever you want.

638
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:05.079
<v Speaker 3>And then they kind of followed up and they built

639
00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:11.480
<v Speaker 3>an extraordinarily aggressive survival game called Rust. And there's a

640
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.960
<v Speaker 3>lot of different ways to play Rust, but it too

641
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.759
<v Speaker 3>is built on top of Unity and dot net And

642
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.680
<v Speaker 3>at the time I had been learning it's APIs to

643
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:23.680
<v Speaker 3>kind of kind of customize the game a little bit.

644
00:31:24.200 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 3>And I remember I am Mattie and she was like,

645
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:28.720
<v Speaker 3>what do I do, and I was like, well, I

646
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:30.599
<v Speaker 3>don't think they like it when you use their logo

647
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.559
<v Speaker 3>in correctly, but I think this is going to be okay.

648
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:34.799
<v Speaker 3>And she goes, it's on Reddit and I went, well,

649
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.559
<v Speaker 3>I got to get to work. So I built an

650
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:41.599
<v Speaker 3>Aspire integration for the game Rust that you would run

651
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:43.720
<v Speaker 3>the Aspire thing and you go get a coffee and

652
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:46.440
<v Speaker 3>make a sandwich and maybe maybe go for a run,

653
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.839
<v Speaker 3>and like when you came back the game Rust would

654
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:54.000
<v Speaker 3>be running on your computer inside of an Aspire orchestration engine.

655
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:56.480
<v Speaker 3>That's crazy, and here's your video. And she was like,

656
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:02.920
<v Speaker 3>thank you for keeping me honest. So that was our

657
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.440
<v Speaker 3>little that was like a twenty six hour like you know,

658
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:06.880
<v Speaker 3>Brady has to make it happen.

659
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:09.960
<v Speaker 2>So it was fun.

660
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:10.599
<v Speaker 3>It was a good time.

661
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So has Neil Young complained about Rust yet?

662
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:13.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry?

663
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:13.559
<v Speaker 3>Have you?

664
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Are you admitting you built an interface to deal with

665
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:19.920
<v Speaker 2>misappropriated logo? Is that what you're saying? Uh?

666
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:28.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, well I mean you put you put the

667
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:31.680
<v Speaker 3>logo out there. So then like I remember pinging Aaron

668
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, you're gonna put this in the

669
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.839
<v Speaker 3>community tolkit. He was like no, if it's like it's

670
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.559
<v Speaker 3>got base And like a couple of days later, I

671
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.640
<v Speaker 3>saw he and Pine talking about it, and he pulled

672
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 3>up Rust and they both kind of snickered, you know,

673
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:45.240
<v Speaker 3>because Pine knew I was working on it. I was texting.

674
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.640
<v Speaker 3>But you know, I guess, like, here' there's some Rust

675
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:50.839
<v Speaker 3>fans on your team. It was funny.

676
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.119
<v Speaker 2>It's a classic game.

677
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:54.799
<v Speaker 3>It was like great, it was funny. That was great.

678
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:56.799
<v Speaker 3>Mitch had some comments. He was like, do I have

679
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:58.160
<v Speaker 3>to learn how to play Russ? Now? I was like

680
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 3>a from It's like that. That's that would be bad.

681
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:05.279
<v Speaker 3>It's like a modern warcraft. I guess.

682
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, take a break, Richard, Yeah, we should

683
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:09.519
<v Speaker 2>take a break, all right, go ahead, all right, and

684
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:12.559
<v Speaker 2>we will be back after these few important messages.

685
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:17.759
<v Speaker 1>You know, dot net six has officially reached the end

686
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:21.000
<v Speaker 1>of support, and now is the time to upgrade. Dot

687
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.759
<v Speaker 1>Net eight is well supported on aws. Learn more at

688
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.920
<v Speaker 1>aws dot Amazon dot com, slash dot net.

689
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:33.640
<v Speaker 2>And we're back. It's dot at rock summerger Cavi. Let's

690
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 2>call Franklin. You she is hanging with our friend Brady Gaster.

691
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Talk a little bit about, you know, his crazy career

692
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:42.440
<v Speaker 2>making all of us more productive.

693
00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:42.920
<v Speaker 3>How are y'all doing.

694
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, we're really grateful there, Brady, thanks much

695
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:48.440
<v Speaker 2>for this stuff. But it has to be harder than

696
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>you came along. That's great.

697
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.880
<v Speaker 3>I texted my family and I was like, I just

698
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.839
<v Speaker 3>have to give y'all some have to give y'all some love.

699
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.319
<v Speaker 3>I texted him and I said, I get to do

700
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:01.799
<v Speaker 3>a bucket listing today. Uh, I said, what are you doing?

701
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:03.480
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, I get to be on dot

702
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.160
<v Speaker 3>at rocks of these guys forever. And have you never

703
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.400
<v Speaker 3>had an opportunity or I've never been cool left to

704
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:11.239
<v Speaker 3>be on the show whatever that you have.

705
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you were on a panel at some point we

706
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:15.639
<v Speaker 1>just a.

707
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Million billion years ago. Yeah, we don't know back in

708
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:19.639
<v Speaker 2>the day, but.

709
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was the day I met Michelle Monthay.

710
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh yeah, I tried to imagine. It was probably

711
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>a while ago.

712
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.519
<v Speaker 3>It was in Vegas. Vegas, probably cameras decided to blur,

713
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:31.719
<v Speaker 3>makes sense.

714
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.199
<v Speaker 2>We were all together in Lisbon for sure.

715
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I was a good time. That was kind

716
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 3>of a reunion of sorts.

717
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.239
<v Speaker 2>It was. It was very much a you know, cadre

718
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:44.519
<v Speaker 2>of the old school studio and uh see, sharp speakers

719
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:47.960
<v Speaker 2>and definitely we went. We had a good time in

720
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:48.719
<v Speaker 2>two ways about that.

721
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it was good. It was a lot of fun.

722
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.440
<v Speaker 3>It was a lot of fun. Yeah, weather it was fantastic. Nice,

723
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:54.480
<v Speaker 3>nice to nice to enjoy that, it's.

724
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:57.519
<v Speaker 2>It's a lovely area, and twos about it. What you

725
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:59.599
<v Speaker 2>what was your talk there? You were talking about this

726
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:04.119
<v Speaker 2>like the right path of cloud development with with with studio.

727
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:10.320
<v Speaker 3>I was my first session that the first day was about,

728
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:14.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, visual Studio and Azure development, and like I

729
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.920
<v Speaker 3>kind of alluded to earlier, you know, one of the

730
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:19.280
<v Speaker 3>things we talked about were like the different the different

731
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.320
<v Speaker 3>Azure you know, the different Aspire features that we have

732
00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:26.519
<v Speaker 3>along like right click publishing. And one of the features

733
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:30.440
<v Speaker 3>that we added right before we shipped the last last

734
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:34.599
<v Speaker 3>update was being able to deploy one service at a time,

735
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.039
<v Speaker 3>so essentially that those VAS tools sit on top of

736
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:40.280
<v Speaker 3>a z D up And one of the things that

737
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:42.119
<v Speaker 3>I'd hope that we would get at some point was

738
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:43.840
<v Speaker 3>the be abley to sit on top of a z

739
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.239
<v Speaker 3>D deployee service right so if you had like three

740
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:48.320
<v Speaker 3>or four services in your Aspire app, being able to

741
00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:51.440
<v Speaker 3>multiple at one time. We were able to get that

742
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.599
<v Speaker 3>done right about the time you know right about the

743
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:57.400
<v Speaker 3>time we shipped that update, so it was like kind

744
00:35:57.400 --> 00:35:58.960
<v Speaker 3>of fun to get that to get that in there,

745
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 3>but we got that done right then. And then the

746
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.159
<v Speaker 3>thing that I was most excited to be able to

747
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:10.159
<v Speaker 3>show was the various things that you can do using

748
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:14.599
<v Speaker 3>the GitHub copilot for Azure, which is essentially kind of

749
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:20.679
<v Speaker 3>the brand name for getting the Azure MCP tools inside

750
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.880
<v Speaker 3>of VS and VS code, and that was really fun

751
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:27.280
<v Speaker 3>to be able to work with Shane's team and case

752
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:29.400
<v Speaker 3>team to be able to bring that over to VS

753
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 3>and to be able to literally say things like I

754
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:35.480
<v Speaker 3>want to deploy this app to the cloud, and it

755
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.400
<v Speaker 3>kind of knows like go go download the pub xml file,

756
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:40.840
<v Speaker 3>do this, do that, whatever, you know, So that was

757
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.920
<v Speaker 3>really fun being able to I think I put published

758
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.199
<v Speaker 3>a video on LinkedIn. I could probably send you of

759
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.639
<v Speaker 3>doing an experiment with it. I sent Hunter a video

760
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.760
<v Speaker 3>and he was like, what's this And I was like,

761
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.079
<v Speaker 3>it's an empty API and worker project. He was like,

762
00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:57.280
<v Speaker 3>what do I do with it? I was like, look

763
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:00.239
<v Speaker 3>at the prompt So he copies the prompts, pay is

764
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:02.559
<v Speaker 3>it in, you know, pace it in, and it's basically

765
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.199
<v Speaker 3>build me a web q worker that sits on top

766
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:08.679
<v Speaker 3>of Azure storage keys, and it runs and it goes

767
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:11.119
<v Speaker 3>and it processed the whole thing and provisions everything and

768
00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:14.320
<v Speaker 3>configures everything. And he was like, this is cool. Can

769
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.280
<v Speaker 3>I use this? Yeah? Yeh yeh yeah. So it was

770
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:18.639
<v Speaker 3>a lot of fun to be able to like do

771
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:21.719
<v Speaker 3>those kinds of things. If you think about what we

772
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.960
<v Speaker 3>were able to do for years with connected services, we

773
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:27.840
<v Speaker 3>were curating like onesie two zi services at a time,

774
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:30.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, like this this month we had you know, Signalore,

775
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:33.400
<v Speaker 3>you know what I mean or whatever. There's like seven

776
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:36.159
<v Speaker 3>thousand services and Azure, you know. So if you think

777
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:38.800
<v Speaker 3>about the idea of just sitting on top of those tools,

778
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:40.920
<v Speaker 3>and those tools sit on top of the A Z

779
00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.559
<v Speaker 3>CLI or the a z d c l I, you know,

780
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.639
<v Speaker 3>just being able to call the tools and the you know,

781
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:47.519
<v Speaker 3>call the like you're done, you know what I mean.

782
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:50.760
<v Speaker 3>So it's it's it's nice, it's it's been it's been

783
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:51.559
<v Speaker 3>a great partnership.

784
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:54.400
<v Speaker 2>I find myself not looking up the syntax anymore for

785
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.880
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff. Right, Okay, it just the co pilot

786
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.400
<v Speaker 2>spits out. The one thing it can is at least

787
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:03.199
<v Speaker 2>is syntax that will run. It might not be the

788
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:05.840
<v Speaker 2>thing you wanted to run, right, but it will out

789
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.760
<v Speaker 2>right where most of the time when I'm typing the

790
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:09.880
<v Speaker 2>syntax from the dogs, it doesn't run at all.

791
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:16.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly exactly. It's messed up. That's till I messed up. Yeah,

792
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.679
<v Speaker 3>it's it's it's been. It's it's been a fun partnership

793
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:22.880
<v Speaker 3>with them. Like I said, at first, it was it was,

794
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:25.639
<v Speaker 3>you know, wow, like a lot of the stuff that

795
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:27.079
<v Speaker 3>we were going to build, you know, we don't have

796
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.800
<v Speaker 3>to build. We can let the AI do it now.

797
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:29.159
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

798
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:32.519
<v Speaker 3>And then it turned into wow, now that the a

799
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:34.159
<v Speaker 3>I was doing that for us, we can go build

800
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.199
<v Speaker 3>this right, And I think that's the way people ought

801
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:38.159
<v Speaker 3>to think about it, you know.

802
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:40.920
<v Speaker 2>It's like, you know, yeah, I've had I've had a

803
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:43.599
<v Speaker 2>few conversations now with folks about what software just was

804
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.800
<v Speaker 2>never going to get built because our backlogs were so

805
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:49.519
<v Speaker 2>large and the barrier to entry to starting any project

806
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:53.719
<v Speaker 2>was so high. And as these simpler problems can be

807
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:57.239
<v Speaker 2>more automated or at least you get this eighty twenty effect,

808
00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:58.800
<v Speaker 2>and a bunch of he lift, he's done, a bunch

809
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.159
<v Speaker 2>of the basic stuff has done it. Now you do

810
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:02.679
<v Speaker 2>the heavy lifting parts. I just think we're going to

811
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:05.280
<v Speaker 2>make more software, you know, the same way when it

812
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:07.079
<v Speaker 2>got to use you to travel when the internet was

813
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:09.599
<v Speaker 2>introduced to that, you know, maybe there were fewer travel agents,

814
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.320
<v Speaker 2>but there was a lot more travel going on.

815
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.960
<v Speaker 3>Exactly exactly. Well, one thing I think that you know,

816
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:17.679
<v Speaker 3>you were talking about how it's really just you know,

817
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 3>moving data from point A to point B higher of course,

818
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.000
<v Speaker 3>you know whatever. You know, back in the day, we

819
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:24.679
<v Speaker 3>were using as m X, and then we were using wisdoms,

820
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.920
<v Speaker 3>and then we were you know, then we're using rest APIs.

821
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.519
<v Speaker 3>I really think if you wanted to you know, do

822
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:34.679
<v Speaker 3>you know the the acronym that you probably bund up

823
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:36.719
<v Speaker 3>as much as I've burned up open a PI versus

824
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:39.880
<v Speaker 3>open AI. You know, if you if you think about

825
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.239
<v Speaker 3>you know, open a p I as the you know,

826
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.079
<v Speaker 3>description layer for back end APIs, you think about MCP

827
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:49.039
<v Speaker 3>as a description layer for those tools that the A

828
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.239
<v Speaker 3>I can use, It's really the same thing. You know.

829
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:52.920
<v Speaker 3>It's just like now your front end is an a

830
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.360
<v Speaker 3>c GP. It's just the chat wind to you know,

831
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:57.280
<v Speaker 3>we're like texting to all those tools to get what

832
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:57.679
<v Speaker 3>we want.

833
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, kind of cool, and we used to do this

834
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 2>with a search tool and a lot of cut and

835
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:07.400
<v Speaker 2>pasting and disassemble it, and now these new generator tools

836
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.639
<v Speaker 2>will largely put that together for you. You still have

837
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.719
<v Speaker 2>to push on bits and make sure it's correct, but

838
00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:13.840
<v Speaker 2>you had to do that anyway because you screwed up

839
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:17.920
<v Speaker 2>too exactly. No, No, this is novel. We've all made mistakes,

840
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:21.320
<v Speaker 2>but it is faster. Oh yeah, it is.

841
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.519
<v Speaker 3>You mentioned Condrent earlier. We were in a meeting one

842
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:26.880
<v Speaker 3>day and I was telling them I think I have

843
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.480
<v Speaker 3>an MCP tool that I can feed some stuff too

844
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.599
<v Speaker 3>to play MIDI ended up showing this a build and

845
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:34.400
<v Speaker 3>I showed him. He was like, stop, stop, what are

846
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.360
<v Speaker 3>you doing? What are you doing? And I was like,

847
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:38.679
<v Speaker 3>I'm typing the name of the MCP tool And he

848
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:41.880
<v Speaker 3>was like, why are you typing the name of the

849
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.719
<v Speaker 3>mc pole And I went because I got to call

850
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.599
<v Speaker 3>it tool. He went, just just say play the note

851
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:53.920
<v Speaker 3>and I went, you're thinking too much like a developer bag.

852
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:55.920
<v Speaker 2>He was.

853
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:01.079
<v Speaker 3>He goes, look at the description put in the attribute

854
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:02.679
<v Speaker 3>Mike told you to write. And I read it and

855
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:06.840
<v Speaker 3>he goes, that's all think of think of it knowing everything,

856
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 3>And I went, what he was sayl place play middle Seed,

857
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:14.159
<v Speaker 3>I write play middle Sea. I was like, he goes, okay,

858
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:20.199
<v Speaker 3>go go go experiment. So like that that turned into

859
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:21.039
<v Speaker 3>build them up.

860
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:24.679
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, So Brady, what do you think of

861
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.480
<v Speaker 1>these uh LLM tools that produce music? And now there's

862
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.440
<v Speaker 1>some pushback on those for copyright infringement and stuff. But

863
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:35.800
<v Speaker 1>my friend, I have a friend who is not a musician,

864
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:39.119
<v Speaker 1>and he's just enamored of this stuff. And I tend

865
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:41.679
<v Speaker 1>to think of it like, you know, the people who

866
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:46.679
<v Speaker 1>have who had in the eighties the cassio keyboards that

867
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:49.760
<v Speaker 1>had like the little rhythms and the tempo and all

868
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.559
<v Speaker 1>the buttons and stuff where they could make up stuff

869
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.480
<v Speaker 1>and then change the chords with like one or two

870
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:58.519
<v Speaker 1>keys in the bottom and then play stuff. I kind

871
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:00.920
<v Speaker 1>of tend to think of it like that. But then

872
00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.159
<v Speaker 1>they listened to some of these songs and and I'm like, wow,

873
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:08.800
<v Speaker 1>those are really really good. I mean, I wouldn't say

874
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:11.079
<v Speaker 1>they're good, like I would listen to them over and

875
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:13.159
<v Speaker 1>over again, like this is a great.

876
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:15.599
<v Speaker 3>It's like it's not like Marvin Gay good, you know.

877
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:21.039
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, yeah, so I just.

878
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Let's find another artist.

879
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh is it not like he's fantastic, that's my point.

880
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:34.719
<v Speaker 3>Was a musical genius? Good. Yeah. I say that because

881
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.920
<v Speaker 3>I read an interesting interview with him where he was like,

882
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:40.880
<v Speaker 3>music producers are not getting better, you know any Uh?

883
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:42.960
<v Speaker 3>This gentleman that I gave, he's the only to Ben Jordan.

884
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:44.719
<v Speaker 3>He's one of my favorite and he'll become one of

885
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:49.280
<v Speaker 3>your favorite YouTubers. He's an amazing musician and he's also

886
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:51.760
<v Speaker 3>kind of like a scientist, and he understands a lot

887
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:53.440
<v Speaker 3>of the things that you're talking about, and one of

888
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:56.960
<v Speaker 3>them is AI and he'll actually like take a, take a,

889
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:00.119
<v Speaker 3>take a. He'll buy a sample from He's got a

890
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:02.559
<v Speaker 3>show where he buys a sample from like one of

891
00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:05.360
<v Speaker 3>the vendors that you can buy samples from, put it

892
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:07.320
<v Speaker 3>on his device, make his track out of it, and

893
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.400
<v Speaker 3>play it back to one of those like is it

894
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:12.519
<v Speaker 3>is it copy written? You know? Tools? Yeah, and it

895
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.480
<v Speaker 3>will identify the it will identify like seven or eight

896
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:17.239
<v Speaker 3>different artists that those sounds came from.

897
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Wow, And he's like, what do we do? Like you

898
00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:22.440
<v Speaker 2>just watch me make this?

899
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:24.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly.

900
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know I was occurring to me. I was

901
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.000
<v Speaker 1>listening to a show where people on the radio were

902
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:36.760
<v Speaker 1>talking about trying to curb the creation of deep fakes

903
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and that kind of stuff with copyright, but there seemed

904
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:44.239
<v Speaker 1>to they seem to be more interested in copyright infringement

905
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.599
<v Speaker 1>than deep fakes themselves. Like I'm I'm really concerned about

906
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:52.840
<v Speaker 1>somebody who could, for example, take your voice from this

907
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:56.960
<v Speaker 1>podcast and then any video that you have on the

908
00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.360
<v Speaker 1>Internet of you talking and you know, turning into a

909
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.440
<v Speaker 1>confession of a crime or something like that, and then

910
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:05.760
<v Speaker 1>bring use that as evidence in a court of law.

911
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:10.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm really concerned about that. And it seems to me

912
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:13.599
<v Speaker 1>like if there's something out there that can identify pieces

913
00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:19.559
<v Speaker 1>of a song as being you know, copyright infringement, wouldn't

914
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:22.360
<v Speaker 1>it be cool? And I mean world change, like life

915
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:24.679
<v Speaker 1>changing if there was something where you could upload an

916
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:28.400
<v Speaker 1>image or a video and say, has this been generated

917
00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:33.000
<v Speaker 1>by an AI and the tool maybe only with the

918
00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:37.559
<v Speaker 1>tool that could have generated it, right, would have to

919
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:41.199
<v Speaker 1>have analysis deep enough to say, oh, well, it looks

920
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:43.280
<v Speaker 1>like this piece came from this source, and this piece

921
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:43.960
<v Speaker 1>came from this source.

922
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:44.719
<v Speaker 2>But I don't think they do.

923
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 1>But if such a tool existed, we wouldn't have to

924
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:54.199
<v Speaker 1>worry so much about, you know, impinging on people's rights

925
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:55.199
<v Speaker 1>to create stuff.

926
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Yes, let's say it.

927
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Let's face it, that's a good thing when people can

928
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:02.079
<v Speaker 1>create things. But but then we would have a tool

929
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:07.360
<v Speaker 1>where people could defend themselves against being you know, faked.

930
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's it's sort of like EXIF data for like

931
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:18.079
<v Speaker 3>like videos, but for wow, just yeah, see here's what

932
00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:21.000
<v Speaker 3>and see here here's why I think that you'd really

933
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.719
<v Speaker 3>be onto something there. There are a series of podcasts

934
00:45:23.719 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 3>about partly it's a very dark topic for your show,

935
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:32.079
<v Speaker 3>but the shows about folks who they get an it job.

936
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:34.639
<v Speaker 3>You know, they like live in country food and they

937
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:36.960
<v Speaker 3>get an it job and then they're like taking in

938
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:38.960
<v Speaker 3>a bus with a whole bunch of other people to

939
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:41.159
<v Speaker 3>a building that looks like a hotel but it's actually

940
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:43.960
<v Speaker 3>kind of a prison and they have to hang out there.

941
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:47.920
<v Speaker 3>Those places. I've listened to a few podcasts about those places.

942
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:51.719
<v Speaker 3>Harrifying stories have They use those types of AI to

943
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:56.519
<v Speaker 3>manipulate people into scams like that, you know, right, and

944
00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:57.159
<v Speaker 3>especially on.

945
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.800
<v Speaker 1>The phone, you know, they find examples of I don't

946
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.280
<v Speaker 1>know somebody on the phone and then they make an

947
00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:07.920
<v Speaker 1>AI of that and then they call the parents or

948
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:11.000
<v Speaker 1>whatever and say, hey, I'm stranded and you know somewhere,

949
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:12.559
<v Speaker 1>can you please wire me some money?

950
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

951
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:17.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I was really happy one day when after

952
00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:20.039
<v Speaker 3>all the time, you know, all the different security works

953
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:20.639
<v Speaker 3>that I've done, and.

954
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:25.199
<v Speaker 2>I know Barry, so you all know Barry. You know Barry.

955
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:29.440
<v Speaker 3>So at some point exactly so at some point, you know,

956
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:32.039
<v Speaker 3>my my oldest comes in and he was like, he

957
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:35.320
<v Speaker 3>shows me the phone and he goes this year and

958
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:41.639
<v Speaker 3>I was like, good, yes, that was me. He walks away.

959
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:44.480
<v Speaker 3>It's like a password on me. I was like, yes, I.

960
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:46.920
<v Speaker 2>That's right.

961
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:50.440
<v Speaker 1>You know what, because I can't and I'm your father,

962
00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.119
<v Speaker 1>brought you into this world, I'll take you out.

963
00:46:56.039 --> 00:46:58.239
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, it was kind of funny. Uh but yeah,

964
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.159
<v Speaker 3>we've we've we've had some security conversations in the house

965
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:02.559
<v Speaker 3>and now they know to come to me whenever they

966
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:03.800
<v Speaker 3>get a text saying this is you.

967
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, I remember. Richard used to have that issue

968
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:11.000
<v Speaker 1>with his daughters if he ever wanted to. Instead of

969
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:14.679
<v Speaker 1>grounding them, he just like cut off their internetcess until

970
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.519
<v Speaker 1>they called him and said, god, Dad.

971
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:19.559
<v Speaker 2>Let's let's be clear. Parenting fun at this fundamental level

972
00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:21.760
<v Speaker 2>is about learning what your children care about and taking

973
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:22.880
<v Speaker 2>it away from them. That's right.

974
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:28.920
<v Speaker 3>Love is like seventh orright on that list.

975
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.199
<v Speaker 2>No, No, Usually I just do a VNC remote keyboard

976
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:43.039
<v Speaker 2>in mouse control and then write a little box, dear daughter,

977
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:47.119
<v Speaker 2>this is your laundry. I'm very sad being scattered all

978
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:49.639
<v Speaker 2>over the laundry room. I wish I was clean and

979
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:50.599
<v Speaker 2>in the drawers.

980
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's just me thinking of you.

981
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Or if you just cut it off. We just cut

982
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:56.599
<v Speaker 2>it off, and you're.

983
00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:58.639
<v Speaker 1>So vaine you don't say anything, and then they just

984
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:00.960
<v Speaker 1>get to send you a message, says okay, dad.

985
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:03.639
<v Speaker 2>He was always very clever. She came down and asked me,

986
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:07.320
<v Speaker 2>are you my laundry's conscience. Yeah.

987
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:11.239
<v Speaker 3>On the other side of that door is the fourteen

988
00:48:11.320 --> 00:48:17.400
<v Speaker 3>year olds the laundry. You know, doors closed for living.

989
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

990
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:22.559
<v Speaker 1>You know. Have you played around with the co pilot

991
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:23.480
<v Speaker 1>c L I.

992
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:26.519
<v Speaker 3>I have not played around with the I'm embarrassed to say.

993
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:29.639
<v Speaker 1>It's it's like so stinking new as of its recording

994
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:32.400
<v Speaker 1>that the only person who knows anything about it is Handsoman.

995
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:38.039
<v Speaker 3>He showed showed it to me the other day. A

996
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:39.719
<v Speaker 3>team might have not showed it to me the other day.

997
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:43.119
<v Speaker 3>He's involved in some upcoming things that I think, but

998
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:46.719
<v Speaker 3>I I want it.

999
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it looks pretty good. Fritz and I might do

1000
00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:52.360
<v Speaker 1>a show about it next week.

1001
00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:55.639
<v Speaker 3>But see, is it behind like some locked door or something.

1002
00:48:56.320 --> 00:49:00.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I will know later to day or tomorrow,

1003
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure let me know.

1004
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Signal. Yeah, I'd like to have it.

1005
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:10.159
<v Speaker 3>I'd like to have it cool.

1006
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:13.760
<v Speaker 2>That would be cool. All these different There are too

1007
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:16.039
<v Speaker 2>many co pilots, man, Like, it is hard. I know,

1008
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:20.119
<v Speaker 2>it is hard to keep track of that many planes. Yeah.

1009
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:23.360
<v Speaker 3>I came home and I was like kind of complaining

1010
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:25.119
<v Speaker 3>to my wife, and I was like, you know, it's

1011
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:27.760
<v Speaker 3>super annoying that there's like I can do all these

1012
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:29.760
<v Speaker 3>things with co pilot, and there's the stuff that I

1013
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:31.719
<v Speaker 3>want to do with my MIDI and my CV that

1014
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:35.280
<v Speaker 3>I can't do. I smile, and I was like, so

1015
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:39.000
<v Speaker 3>I used I used so I used co pilot to

1016
00:49:39.079 --> 00:49:41.880
<v Speaker 3>design a three D rendering of the MIDI to CV device.

1017
00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:43.199
<v Speaker 3>I think I'm going to figure out.

1018
00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:56.000
<v Speaker 1>That control voltage control have a controlled synthesizers and after.

1019
00:49:57.159 --> 00:49:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Uh and then the next day I saw that device somebody.

1020
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:02.920
<v Speaker 2>But that's the whole thing you're speaking about. Now we

1021
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.159
<v Speaker 2>can start just describing the problem we have and these

1022
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.960
<v Speaker 2>tools can help us, even if necessarily get to a

1023
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.400
<v Speaker 2>point of creating hardware around it exactly.

1024
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.800
<v Speaker 1>I had chat GPT write me a Windows console app

1025
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:20.119
<v Speaker 1>that plays a midifile. Simple, but it worked. And I

1026
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.000
<v Speaker 1>did that to diagnose a problem that I found was

1027
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:28.159
<v Speaker 1>in my DAW, my digital audio workstation, that this particular

1028
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:32.480
<v Speaker 1>midifile wasn't being played correctly, and my little C sharp

1029
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:33.960
<v Speaker 1>player played it just fine.

1030
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

1031
00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was the whole piano thing that I talked about, Richard.

1032
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I have a piano.

1033
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.760
<v Speaker 1>You see this piano back here, Brady. So it's a

1034
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Baby Grand It's Yamaha C nine I think I can't

1035
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:49.400
<v Speaker 1>remember the name, but anyway, it has the symphony, which

1036
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:54.559
<v Speaker 1>is a MIDI controller, and there's a selenoid under every key,

1037
00:50:55.159 --> 00:50:57.559
<v Speaker 1>and so not only does it act as a MIDI controller,

1038
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:01.119
<v Speaker 1>but it will receive MIDI and then play like a

1039
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:05.360
<v Speaker 1>player piano nice and I have and it's it's older,

1040
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 1>and it has this problem and I really couldn't figure

1041
00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:09.840
<v Speaker 1>out what it was. But when I used it as

1042
00:51:09.840 --> 00:51:12.559
<v Speaker 1>a mini controller to record a MIDI file and then

1043
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.639
<v Speaker 1>played it back from the DAW, it would the the

1044
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:17.960
<v Speaker 1>sequence of a.

1045
00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:21.079
<v Speaker 2>Pedal controller up and.

1046
00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Down would be out of time, right, and so it

1047
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:29.159
<v Speaker 1>would basically hold like there there was some weirdness about it.

1048
00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:32.039
<v Speaker 1>So I basically what I wanted to do with this

1049
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:37.719
<v Speaker 1>is have a MIDI file of the artist recording UH

1050
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:40.400
<v Speaker 1>in you know, with a drummer, because the drums aren't

1051
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:44.440
<v Speaker 1>open Mike and pianos open mic everybody else can go

1052
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:49.960
<v Speaker 1>direct and UH and then edit with MIDI and then

1053
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:51.800
<v Speaker 1>play it back and record it at the same time.

1054
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:55.320
<v Speaker 1>And that wasn't working. So what I did is I

1055
00:51:55.400 --> 00:51:58.000
<v Speaker 1>have this little tool that I wrote that can playback

1056
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.719
<v Speaker 1>a MIDI file and record and a wave file in

1057
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:05.360
<v Speaker 1>stereo from that input the microphone input at the same

1058
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:07.079
<v Speaker 1>time there in sync.

1059
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:10.119
<v Speaker 3>It's pretty money and I solve the problem that way.

1060
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:10.679
<v Speaker 3>That's good.

1061
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:13.440
<v Speaker 2>That's good. But I love that because who does that?

1062
00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Right?

1063
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1064
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:17.119
<v Speaker 3>Well, I remember one of the first things that I

1065
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:20.519
<v Speaker 3>would chatted with you guys about in Orlando, in fact,

1066
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:25.679
<v Speaker 3>was this idea that I had of doing like remote

1067
00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:28.880
<v Speaker 3>mini sync between devices.

1068
00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:30.519
<v Speaker 2>Right, and.

1069
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:36.079
<v Speaker 3>Jamie ended up getting it working, but using signalare. So

1070
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:38.840
<v Speaker 3>you signal are to pump it over a CTP and

1071
00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:40.760
<v Speaker 3>then like have a client that would just feed that

1072
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:42.760
<v Speaker 3>over like to MIDI and I was like, hey, it's

1073
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.679
<v Speaker 3>just three bites, like it would totally work.

1074
00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:46.920
<v Speaker 2>But it's sync though it's not.

1075
00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:49.000
<v Speaker 3>It wouldn't be insane. It's too slow. It's too slow

1076
00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:51.280
<v Speaker 3>to be in sync because I think, like anybody who's

1077
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.639
<v Speaker 3>a drummer, I think it's like six milliseconds and you

1078
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:57.000
<v Speaker 3>feel it, you know what I mean, So you know

1079
00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:58.880
<v Speaker 3>it's like it's never gonna work.

1080
00:52:59.239 --> 00:52:59.400
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1081
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.119
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I remember we figured that out as the bar.

1082
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:03.679
<v Speaker 3>We were like, okay, so you're going to have at

1083
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:06.519
<v Speaker 3>least a nintisecond to get from the device.

1084
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:13.519
<v Speaker 2>Not anosecond. Up is better.

1085
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:18.079
<v Speaker 1>Although I actually have a balan that uses Cat six

1086
00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:21.599
<v Speaker 1>cable to go long distances where I can plug a

1087
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:23.760
<v Speaker 1>midian a MIDI out on one side, mini and mini

1088
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:24.239
<v Speaker 1>on the other.

1089
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:26.039
<v Speaker 2>But how long is long distance?

1090
00:53:26.920 --> 00:53:30.159
<v Speaker 1>One hundred yards, like way more than a MIDI cable.

1091
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:33.039
<v Speaker 1>And I actually use that to go around the room

1092
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:36.079
<v Speaker 1>in the studio from my machine to the piano and

1093
00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:38.599
<v Speaker 1>it works great. It's pretty much instantaneous. I mean, I

1094
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:41.400
<v Speaker 1>don't know exactly what the millisecond delay is, but you

1095
00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:42.320
<v Speaker 1>can't tell, but.

1096
00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:44.320
<v Speaker 2>That could be in the millisecond range. Shine, it's not

1097
00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.800
<v Speaker 2>like you're going across the ocean. Yeah you know, now

1098
00:53:47.800 --> 00:53:49.840
<v Speaker 2>it's two hundred milliseconds and everybody knows.

1099
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you're going across the ocean, I think your best.

1100
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:54.639
<v Speaker 2>Bet would be UDIP. Yeah, it helps, but it's just I.

1101
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Could tell you a joke about UDP, but you might

1102
00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:57.119
<v Speaker 1>not get it.

1103
00:53:57.320 --> 00:53:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Nice, but if you tell it twice, the chances

1104
00:53:59.360 --> 00:53:59.880
<v Speaker 2>will ride once.

1105
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:03.920
<v Speaker 3>That's good.

1106
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:04.840
<v Speaker 2>That's gonna see what he did?

1107
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:08.280
<v Speaker 3>What's a this awesome wedding the other day? It was

1108
00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:10.840
<v Speaker 3>these two people who were both Wi Fi technicians. There

1109
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:12.039
<v Speaker 3>were something that was awesome.

1110
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.960
<v Speaker 2>This is gonna be the all dad joke show. That's

1111
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:24.639
<v Speaker 2>what it's gonna be.

1112
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:28.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't know where it is.

1113
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:31.840
<v Speaker 2>All right, well, five minutes left. Anything else you want

1114
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:33.840
<v Speaker 2>to talk about before we hit the road? What have

1115
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:35.960
<v Speaker 2>we not talked about? Work wise? Here?

1116
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:37.639
<v Speaker 3>I can't really think anything.

1117
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:39.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's like kind of got through the whole thing.

1118
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:42.039
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's I don't know when the show airs,

1119
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.119
<v Speaker 3>but it's the beginning of November four, so it's the

1120
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.840
<v Speaker 3>beginning of conference season, in the beginning of like, oh wow,

1121
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.320
<v Speaker 3>we did a lot this year, Like how are you here? As?

1122
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:50.039
<v Speaker 3>Was it wild?

1123
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:53.519
<v Speaker 2>The roster for that confience crazy, like there's so much

1124
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:56.840
<v Speaker 2>in it and we haven't seen it officially yet, but

1125
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:58.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, they it'll be out by the time this

1126
00:54:59.000 --> 00:54:59.280
<v Speaker 2>show is.

1127
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.519
<v Speaker 3>It's gonna be. It's gonna be.

1128
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:03.239
<v Speaker 1>It actually says on the calendar here that this will

1129
00:55:03.320 --> 00:55:05.880
<v Speaker 1>be out next Thursday, the thirteenth, next week.

1130
00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, good, which is the week of dot com So

1131
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:10.599
<v Speaker 2>I hope you had done net comfy. I know we did. Yeah,

1132
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:13.440
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, we loved it. Great time.

1133
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:19.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm recording the keynote, Denno right now, are my stanza

1134
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:21.800
<v Speaker 3>of it? Because my stands up of it's hours long.

1135
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:25.199
<v Speaker 3>It's a it's the process of going through the whole

1136
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:29.000
<v Speaker 3>like open a framework app, convert it to dot at

1137
00:55:29.079 --> 00:55:31.599
<v Speaker 3>ten uh, and then put it through the paces of

1138
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:36.000
<v Speaker 3>migrating it like moving your like getting off Windows a

1139
00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:38.280
<v Speaker 3>D and getting on intra ad or getting on intra

1140
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:41.239
<v Speaker 3>id pard me sorry guys, and then like getting off

1141
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:43.119
<v Speaker 3>sql local and getting in squl azure.

1142
00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:44.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1143
00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.119
<v Speaker 3>So it's been, it's been. It's been a fun set

1144
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:50.760
<v Speaker 3>of a fun set of recordings. They aren't they aren't quick,

1145
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:52.559
<v Speaker 3>but they're quicker than doing it yourself. That's one of

1146
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:53.960
<v Speaker 3>the things we were talking about with spect Kid is

1147
00:55:53.960 --> 00:55:56.679
<v Speaker 3>it'll give you the different like, hey, this phase is

1148
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:59.199
<v Speaker 3>going to take you two weeks to do, and you go, okay,

1149
00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:01.159
<v Speaker 3>do phase one and I'll go make a coffee and

1150
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:04.360
<v Speaker 3>you come back and plays ones. Yeah, yeah, think of

1151
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:05.119
<v Speaker 3>the time it siting.

1152
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:07.960
<v Speaker 2>That's cool. Yeah, that's the kind of bursts that we're getting, right,

1153
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:11.159
<v Speaker 2>It's just like suddenly this thing is done, and I'll

1154
00:56:11.199 --> 00:56:13.079
<v Speaker 2>make sure I include a link to a good hubspec kit.

1155
00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:14.719
<v Speaker 2>But go back and listen to the show we did

1156
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.320
<v Speaker 2>with them on it as well. Yeah, we had a

1157
00:56:16.440 --> 00:56:17.800
<v Speaker 2>we had a great conversation for that.

1158
00:56:18.239 --> 00:56:20.719
<v Speaker 1>We had some good comments on Hybrid talk about that too,

1159
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:23.480
<v Speaker 1>about that show that we're probably going to have to

1160
00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:25.480
<v Speaker 1>bring up in a couple of you know, a couple

1161
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:26.480
<v Speaker 1>of shows from now or whatever.

1162
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:30.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, we're talking about fundamentally changing the way folks

1163
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:33.400
<v Speaker 2>do development. And that's not an easy thing. Like people

1164
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:35.800
<v Speaker 2>are really struggling with what's right, what's you know, what's

1165
00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:38.159
<v Speaker 2>the logical approach of this? Does this make any sense?

1166
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:41.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're still seeing wholesayed folks are not our

1167
00:56:41.880 --> 00:56:42.320
<v Speaker 2>posed to it.

1168
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.719
<v Speaker 1>While I was in Orlando at dev Intersection, Richard I

1169
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.719
<v Speaker 1>sat down and talked to Brian Noyes for a while

1170
00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:51.039
<v Speaker 1>and we were talking about the whole AI and the

1171
00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:55.159
<v Speaker 1>role of developers like our age in AI, and I

1172
00:56:55.239 --> 00:56:58.960
<v Speaker 1>brought up my idea of that we're no longer, you know,

1173
00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:01.480
<v Speaker 1>carpenters were more like general contractors.

1174
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Right. We have we hire all the different.

1175
00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Pages to do the work, but we know we have

1176
00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:12.519
<v Speaker 1>to know enough about building houses in order to be

1177
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:14.840
<v Speaker 1>able to supervise and to inspect and all of that

1178
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.039
<v Speaker 1>stuff and to know when they're doing the right thing.

1179
00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:21.440
<v Speaker 1>And Brian said, man, I love that analogy. I'm going

1180
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:26.039
<v Speaker 1>to steal that. And so literally two days ago or

1181
00:57:26.119 --> 00:57:28.519
<v Speaker 1>three days ago, I saw a post on LinkedIn by

1182
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Don Demsak, remember Don xml, Yeah, and he said the

1183
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:36.280
<v Speaker 1>same exact thing. He said, we're like general contractors. And

1184
00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:38.840
<v Speaker 1>so this is resonating. And I probably am not the

1185
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:41.920
<v Speaker 1>first one to use this metaphor now, but it's really

1186
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:45.000
<v Speaker 1>true that you know, you have to think of yourself

1187
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:47.480
<v Speaker 1>in a new role now, and you know what, if

1188
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:49.719
<v Speaker 1>your plumber is out sick, you got to pick up

1189
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:50.840
<v Speaker 1>a torch and do the job.

1190
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:53.920
<v Speaker 2>But in general, yeah, and you may even have a

1191
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:56.840
<v Speaker 2>strength in trade, you know, lots of developers are using

1192
00:57:56.840 --> 00:57:59.159
<v Speaker 2>these tools and still writing pieces of the code they

1193
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:01.920
<v Speaker 2>either want or write, or that they find that generators

1194
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:03.800
<v Speaker 2>really struggle with. And so this is the part you

1195
00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:06.679
<v Speaker 2>got to write. Yep. But there's plenty of toil ish

1196
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:09.280
<v Speaker 2>code you know, you need that the tools can make

1197
00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:11.519
<v Speaker 2>for you and one least thing you need to do,

1198
00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:12.800
<v Speaker 2>and you can keep moving forward.

1199
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1200
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:14.840
<v Speaker 1>But I'll tell you what, from the people that I

1201
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:19.599
<v Speaker 1>talked to, the demand for good software has never been higher.

1202
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:23.239
<v Speaker 2>No, no, this is the same effect as the post

1203
00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Loudite explosion in clothing demand, the expansion in travel, Like

1204
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:31.000
<v Speaker 2>you can already see an expanding need for software. Yep,

1205
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:32.119
<v Speaker 2>it's really true.

1206
00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:34.400
<v Speaker 1>So hang in there, kids, don't give up the fight

1207
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:36.360
<v Speaker 1>and ais no excuse.

1208
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Just be the best you can be.

1209
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:40.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, all right, it's been fun. It's been fun.

1210
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:42.800
<v Speaker 2>You get the last word? What is it?

1211
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:46.639
<v Speaker 3>I really like what just Dean said. I think it

1212
00:58:46.800 --> 00:58:49.719
<v Speaker 3>was a build. She said something like let it help

1213
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:53.119
<v Speaker 3>you amplify your productivity, you know what I mean, like like,

1214
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:54.719
<v Speaker 3>let it get that stuff out of your way that

1215
00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:56.320
<v Speaker 3>you don't want to do, and also let it do

1216
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:58.199
<v Speaker 3>the things that you know you need to get you

1217
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:00.400
<v Speaker 3>need to get done. It can scale out and do

1218
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:03.840
<v Speaker 3>seven or eight things all you do want. I love

1219
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:05.960
<v Speaker 3>that general Contractor's cool and we.

1220
00:59:06.039 --> 00:59:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Have the benefit of the compiler as the fact checker, right.

1221
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:12.079
<v Speaker 3>Or if you need it to be like a musical thing,

1222
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:13.119
<v Speaker 3>you're the conductor.

1223
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:18.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right. It's an orchestra and you're.

1224
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:19.639
<v Speaker 3>The MIDI controller.

1225
00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:21.639
<v Speaker 2>I love it.

1226
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:28.199
<v Speaker 1>All the gen Z people are like, what's MIDI? What

1227
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:32.920
<v Speaker 1>are you talking about? Oh, Brady Gasser. It's been an

1228
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:35.159
<v Speaker 1>absolute gas having you on the show and talking about

1229
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:35.679
<v Speaker 1>all these things.

1230
00:59:35.760 --> 00:59:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. Thank you. That's been great, right,

1231
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:41.960
<v Speaker 2>you bet, and we'll talk to you next time on

1232
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:43.320
<v Speaker 2>dot net rocks.

1233
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

1234
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:11.079
<v Speaker 1>and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video

1235
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:15.159
<v Speaker 1>and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

1236
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:19.679
<v Speaker 1>and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1237
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:22.559
<v Speaker 1>Visit our website at d O T N E, t

1238
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:26.840
<v Speaker 1>R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1239
01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:30.679
<v Speaker 1>mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1240
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.159
<v Speaker 1>back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

1241
01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:36.800
<v Speaker 1>and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors.

1242
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:39.760
<v Speaker 2>They keep us in business. Now go write some code.

1243
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:41.079
<v Speaker 2>See you next time.

1244
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:47.599
<v Speaker 1>You got javans at