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Speaker 1: How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads?

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Speaker 2: Easy?

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Speaker 1: Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You

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get access to a private RSS feed where all the

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shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month. We'll get

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you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign

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up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey

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guess what, it's dot net rocks all over again.

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Speaker 2: It keeps happening. I'm Carl, Carl Franklin, and I'm Richard Campbell.

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That's Richard Campbell. Richard, you're not home now. I'm in

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New Zealand. I'm this is the we're recording needs in November,

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and I am got the grandbaby with me and her

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parents and we are visiting all the extended family and

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traveling around the North Island. That's nice. Then we're gonna

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head over to Australia for a few days as well

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and see the Coogans and the Hunts. Nice and then

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we'll we'll leave home at the end of November. How

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old is the little baby? Seven months? She's doing really great.

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Little little baby's do just thriving. She's enjoying herself.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and now this is your cousin's kid.

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Speaker 2: No, no, this is my granddaughter.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh oh, your granddaughter's with you there.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Oh that was the whole point. Bring the granddaughter,

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see my mom, and I'm my uncle and aunt and

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all that. But my cousin here that runs the farm

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where we're staying, has two little boys who are three

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and five, and they are absolutely enamored of her. For

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an obvious reason, the thing that would matter most to boys.

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They handed her a remote control for one of the

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dump trucks, and the seven month old, not even know

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what a button is, grabbed it in a way that

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hit the button full boar, ran the dump truck into

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her father's leg. And now these two boys think she's

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the greatest baby of all time.

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Speaker 1: That must have been hilarious, hilarious, hilarious.

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Speaker 2: But they've been very sweeter, and she's just loving having

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little kids around her. So she's having a blast.

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Speaker 1: I remember when Claire was a little girl. This is

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my second The only thing that would make her laugh

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was when I hurt myself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, made me laugh too, for faked hurting myself? Right,

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that's it? Yeah, No, crack her up, right, yeah, that's

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the best. All right.

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Speaker 1: So you're in New Zealand. So I had any good lamb.

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Speaker 2: Not a bit? No. I remember, I'm on a dairy farm.

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The freezer is full of beef. Yeah, okay, really good

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beef too, all right? Cool?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, when you have some nice lamb, think of

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me take a selfie.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I will.

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Speaker 1: Brady Gaster's here with us, but we're going to talk

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to him in a few minutes. First, we have a

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couple of things to discuss. First of all, this is

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episode nineteen seventy six, and so let's talk about what

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happened that year. Well in America, that is our bi centennial.

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Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, and it was an election year too.

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This is when Jimmy Carter gets elected. Jimmy Carter. God,

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that's right.

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Speaker 1: And Apple Computer Company and Microsoft were both incorporated in

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nineteen seventy six.

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Speaker 2: True yep. And Apple releases Wosney Ak and jobs make

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the Apple one, a single board computer, which they sell

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two hundred of almost immediately, and then announced the Apple two.

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And we'll talk about that next show.

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Speaker 1: So Sylvester Stallone began filming Rocky, which would become an

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iconic sports drama and the first commercial flights of the concord. Yeah,

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took place. In other bad news, the first recorded outbreak

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of the e BOWLA virus occurred in Sudan, leading to

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two hundred and eighty four cases. And they didn't even

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have Burger King.

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Speaker 2: Oh jeez, that's dark man, That is dark. Naia Komeny.

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Speaker 1: The gymnasts scored the first perfect ten in Olympic history

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during the Summer Olympics in Montreal. I remember seeing her

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and watching that on television and I was not eight

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nine years old, right, I was nine years old like you. Yeah.

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Sal Bellow received the Nobel Prize for his contributions to literature,

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and Betty Williams and Myriad Corrigan were awarded for their

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efforts and peace activism.

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Speaker 2: Cool.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there's a lot more. But what happened in

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space and tech?

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Speaker 2: Richard. On the space side, the first chest shuttle OV

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one oh one, originally named Constitution, was rolled out, but

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due to a letter writing campaign by a bunch of

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Star Trek fans, is renamed Enterprise. Oh that's great. Also

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in seventy six, Viking one and Viking two going to

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orbit around Mars. They have an orbiter piece that does

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surveillance and communications and then sends down a couple of

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lander each these or twelve hundred pund landers. So they

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were big powered and land successfully on the surface of Mars,

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and of course the Martians blew them up and not

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They landed just fine. Everything was fine. You know, we

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could go deeper into some of the mission, some of

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the exploit they did. One of their attempts was to

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prove there was life on Mars. The results were very inconclusive,

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and with our new sensors, we've later come to understand

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that the chemical reactions of the perchlorates and the soils

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of Mars would have confused the instruments on Viking. Well

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there you go. Were on the computer side, we already

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mentioned the Apple one definitely important is also the year

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that the Intel eighty eighty is released. I put one

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of those in an ne S one hundred bus machine

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and the z log Z eighty.

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Speaker 1: The Z eighty, Yeah, I think my ts TRS eighty

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Model four.

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Speaker 2: How does ED eighty and it absolutely so did mine.

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This is also a year that CPM is released that

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Gary Kildoll at Digital Research in his team, and CPM

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is the precursor to DOS, isn't it Well, DOS emulated CPM.

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CPM was just flying on its own. Yeah. The first

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version they have, the ibmpc that I ever played with

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was running CPM, not MS dots.

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Speaker 1: And also I had a friend who had a TRS

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eighty Model three that ran CPM.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they all could, and then no one. Last one

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would be the Seymour kre. The very first crazy supercomputer

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is built for the US government. It is about a

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ten million dollar computer in nineteen seventy six. Oh my,

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and the machine is curved to minimize the length of

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the wiring to optimize for performance. Wow, first generation supercomputing.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's waste no more time and get

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right to better no framework, roll.

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Speaker 2: The music, all right, dude, what do you got?

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Speaker 1: So this came to us from one arn On axel Rod,

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and thank you Arnon for bringing this to our attention.

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Speaker 2: This is python net past. Guess this is cool? What

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is python net? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Python net. Python net is provides interrout between Python and

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dot net in both directions. Oh cool, And it's a

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GitHub repo and we'll paste the link to that. So

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of course you can call dot net code from Python

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and you can call python code or embed Python in

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dot net, right, awesome, call python from.

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Speaker 2: So they could be friends. So there you go.

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Speaker 1: And you know this is good because dt net developers,

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I mean, we're kind of spoiled if you're just a

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dot net developer, right, anytime you have some new cool

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tool that says, oh you gotta download Python, like uh,

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I gotta what or oh you got to run node.

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But you know, being a polyglot, you kind of have

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to do those kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: But sure, you used to speaking JavaScript and you can

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handle some seqel. You can handle a little Python. It's

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not going to hurt anybody. It's not going to hurt anybody.

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Go fine, you'll be fine. It'll be fun. Right. Plus,

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you know all the kids are doing Python these days. Yeah,

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all the cool ones anyway, all the cool ones, especially

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the universities. And that I write more Python that I

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care to admit to. Yeah, but you know, I'm a

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I'm a data muna, right, and so I write a

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little Python myself. I like my Jupiter notebooks.

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Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, here you go, So go learn it, know it,

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learn it, love it.

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Speaker 2: Who's talking to us today? Richard grabbed a comment off

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a show eighteen fifty one, which you did back in

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June twenty three with Savannah Ostrowski, which I did. I

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think we did at as show. I'm not sure, maybe not,

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but we were talking about the Azure Developer CLI. Yeah,

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and I know we're talking to Brady Day, who is

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all about developers and Azure and working all the things together.

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But it was particularly relevant to me because there was

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a recent outage on with Azure front Door that was

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reaking a lot of havoc for asking the portal and stuff. Right,

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But one of the teams I was working with does

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all their employee deployees through the az dev CLI. They

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were totally unaffected. They didn't need to get they didn't

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need to go through front door, so they were happy

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go and command line for deployment. Makes your life better.

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But Edward Keelholtz, who we know it in fact, I

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just saw him while I was in Europe, had this

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comment this gain from a couple of years ago, where

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he says, hey, the az Dev CLI lowers the barber

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embracing the Azured cloud environment. Using the CLI allows people

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new to Azure to generate full blown and serious infras

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code solutions. I'm just wondering if you always should. If

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you're not familiar with a certain cloud product, you should

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be careful deploying it. It's easy to not secure the

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service properly, or you just put it in a straight

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v net. And I think the CLI will be strong

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in deploying app service plans before it deploys a web app,

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but it will also advise you, will advise you to

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put a web application firewall in front. I don't know

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if it does right now that maybe it should. CLI

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is a nice tool to get going faster, but you

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need to know what you're doing to protect yourself from

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security issues and high bill.

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Speaker 1: It's an old story. Richard and Patrick Hines likes to

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say convenience is the enemy of security and vice versa.

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So if you're going to secure it, that means you're

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going to have to enter your passwords and all that

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kind of stuff a lot more than you want to.

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But you know it's going to be a little bit

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more secure, so you're right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I would also argue in favor of this

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sort of repeatabil AUDI. You know, command line stuff. As

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long as you follow all the steps you should follow,

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it only can be very secure. It's also very consistent

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and reliable. Yes, so you know, I just I'm keen

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on doing the same thing every time. And if you

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haven't ever listened to that show, like go Back Over thirty,

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you know it's episode eighteen fifty one, and Savannah provided

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it is a great list of links for different tools,

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including the developer, CLI templates and things that'll just get

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you into good practices. Yeah, so, Edward, thank you so

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much for your comment, and a copy of music Cobuy

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is on its way to you. And if you'd like

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a copy of music cobe I write a comment on

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the website at don at Rocks dot com or on

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the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if you

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comment there and I read on the show, we'll send

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you a copy of music go by.

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Speaker 1: And believe it or not, I have started Music to

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Code by track number twenty three.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, I've started it. If you so

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often you get an itch for this, right like you

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sort of, it's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I have

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started it.

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Speaker 1: It's it's pretty cool, you know, and it's just going

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to take a Saturday or something like that to sit

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down and finish it. But Music to Code By there's

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twenty two tracks. You can get the entire collection an

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MP three wave or FLAK format from Music to Code

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by dot Net. And of course, the whole point of

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it is to help you get into a state of

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flow while you're writing code and it works.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's been a while since you've posted a

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YouTube video about you making music of any kind. Maybe

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you ought to just record making that track. That's not

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a bad idea. You might want to edit down or something.

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I just see people will be fascinated to see the

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process you go through. Sure, that's a pretty crazy idea,

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you know what, I'd watch it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you and a couple other people and.

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Speaker 2: Me and a couple of my friends. You know, what

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do you want? What do you want?

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Speaker 1: Brady was smiling as we were talking about Azure Cli.

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So let me introduce Brady right now, base near Seattle,

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Brady Gaster aspires to make it easy for dot net

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developers to party in the cloud. As the product manager

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behind Visual Studios, Azure Wright, Click Publish, and Connected Services features.

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He also helps with Aspire tooling support and Visual Studio

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and Visual Studio code. And we're not designing new tooling

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features or building demos with teammates. He's trail running five

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k's Wow, parenting two teens and mixing new one hundred

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and seventy four beat per minute drum and bass sets

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or producing his own electronic music.

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Speaker 2: And I can vouch for that.

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Speaker 1: Brady and I were geeking out before you got on

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the show music Makers. Yeah, yeah, Brady, welcome.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. I've had like the whole series

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of like nostalgic moments throughout this conversation, like you mentioned, uh,

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you mentioned the until eighty eighty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The other day we went to I don't know if

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you've ever been to like old school renting whenever you've

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been in town.

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Speaker 2: Not recently. They have this this that used to be

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just you all use car lots back in the day.

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That's how old schools. Like.

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Speaker 3: This is like a little part of town. And they've

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got this place called eight Bit Arcade.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: And they've got been there. It's cool, amazing, it's amazing.

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So they've got all these like old, old and new

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pinball machines and like my wife basically blew like ten

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bucks on this back man frogger or whatever. And the

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one that I fell in love with was this game

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called Gunfight, and I was like tripping out on this game.

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And basically it's a quarter and it's two player automatically,

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and the stick goes up and down, and then you

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got another stick where you can aim the gun and

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then you hit the button to like shoot or you

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pull the trigger to shoot, and you've got ten shots,

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and you're shooting through like these cactuses and this like

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station stage coach, and like you only get like ten shots,

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and if you're it's super like super like super Pong

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level graphics, you know what I mean. So that game

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was called Gunfight. But what was exciting about it is

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it was the first game to ever be built on

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a microprocessor, and the microprocessor was the eighty eight, right,

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And and it was also the game that influenced like

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Techan moratl Kombat, because it was the first game that

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had to go ahead to head, like it was like

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one side versus the other side a street fighter, and

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like all those games are like influence.

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Speaker 2: We are we are with the stories of the show

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numbers starting to bump into the history of video games.

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I got to make sure I include all of that

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because we did call out the first Pong and Colossal

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adventure and so forth, because it's all part of computer

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history too.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, next show is going to be fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I've been taking notes for it.

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Speaker 1: So to get back to this arcade. I think it

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was Glenn Block that took us there last time we went.

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And it's this big warehouse, right and maybe what eight

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or nine rows of games?

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Speaker 2: Is that? The kind of is that the place?

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking that one's in Las Vegas. I'm sorry, that's

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Las Vegas. Yeah, that's that.

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Speaker 3: That place is dope too, But this is like this

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is like a little mom and pop place in like

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old school renting, okay, you know, which is like across

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the street from a tattoo parlor, across the street from

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a coffee shop, you know whatever. Like yeah, so there's

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like terrible parking and like whatever else.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, sure, like tongue is proper.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's good.

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Speaker 1: So what are you thinking about these days? Brady's mind?

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of thinking about the you know, I was

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chatting with Richard and Lisbon my first time in Lisbon

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a couple of weeks back, and uh, beautiful, I was

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I was thinking about kind of the the intersection between

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you know, dot net and Azure as always because I've

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been in you know, dot a land since just after

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the Obama administration, and uh, I felt like it was

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like time to start working over in azreg and I've

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been like the Azure dot guy and the dot net

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team for a while, you know, helping out with the

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tooling side of that. But you know, it was one

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day I was kind of sitting on the on the

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on the at the kitchen bar talking to my wife

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and I said, it's interesting, you know, VJ, my engineering manager,

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and I are in the process of kind of creating

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like more of an agentic experience in the chat window.

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It's like you're texting to the cloud, you know, give

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me you know, give me a web back, give me

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a Davis. And it's it's working really well, but it's

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also kind of creating and existential. I'm like, this is

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really good, Like I can imagine this like going away

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and not going away for like you know, this this

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this way of going you know, going to the problem.

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And she said, how does that feel? I was like

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kind of weird, like I think you do, find something

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else to work on. And then it was modernization, So

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now like that got between that interchange between modernizing your

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applications and you know, you know, bringing them from you know,

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dot net framework to dot net you know, core and beyond,

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which you know I've talked to you all about since

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as long as I've been at Microsoft. You know, that's

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something we we've all done in our consulting world. But

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that's what I'm gonna be doing now is kind of

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working on the architecture side with some folks covering the

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you know, the the Azure side, uh, you know, to

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kind of make it easier for folks to kind of

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modernize not just one app or two apps, but two

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hundred apps, two thousand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this was a big part of the Azure Depth

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some I think it was part of the keynote is

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is how do we harness these I'm just going to

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call them code generators rady honestly because it takes a

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lot of the science fiction out of this.

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Speaker 3: It does.

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Speaker 2: We have a new generation of code generators that are

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really good at parsing certain kinds of code. And if

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you say, hey, take this dot nep for eight app,

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and what does it look like as a dot net

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nine or heck, dot net ten app? And the tool

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goes to work and does a bunch of the heavy

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lifting for you. Doesn't do everything, but it does quite

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a bit, right, that's kind a bit.

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Speaker 1: It's a process of iteration. Absolutely, you can't just expect

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it to un first.

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Speaker 3: You know, pass exactly. One of the things I like

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about it is you can y'all are probably heard of

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spec Kit, something we've talked about also the show. Okay,

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good good, Yeah, Well, I like the idea of spec

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in conjunction with things like, you know, modernizing your apps,

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and you know, worked on an experiment that was kind

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of inspired by it. Not I cloned their repo or anything,

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but it was, you know, the same kind of idea.

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It was interesting, you know, how far you could get.

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But at the end of the day, I think, I

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think you're right, and I see a lot of the

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tools leaning in on that SPEC driven thing. Now it's like,

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don't just ask me one, don't expect you you can

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get what you want in one question.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean. Build you know, build me

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a banking app with support for at MS or you know,

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g r p C.

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Speaker 2: Like, no, yeah, let's break it down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, it down. So if you if you

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work with the AI to like write those write those

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specs out. It's it's a lot more iterative to you know,

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a lot more manageable.

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Speaker 1: It's just like writing a novel. I mean, I would

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think I never wrote a novel, but you know that

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you started out by consulting the AI about an outline,

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and you get an outline together, and then you slowly

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fill in the details and pieces and see how they

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fit together. It's the same thing, you know, and bite

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off too big a chunk.

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Speaker 3: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say, just like eating an elephant,

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kind of one bite at the time.

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Speaker 1: Oh, well, I have done that, and it is not easy,

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let me tell you.

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Speaker 2: And it took a long time.

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Speaker 3: I can imagine. Yeah, it's it's it's been cool to

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kind of see that the intersection and kind of you know,

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do that dance between you know, the wizard approach to

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things and then you know, the agentic approach to things

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and then the augentic approach to a thousand things. It's

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definitely challenging to think about that that process.

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Speaker 2: It does It does seem like a because you Microsoft

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has routinely built tools for migration. Yes, you know, migration advisors,

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like all those kinds of things, and they tend to

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be very specific and they get better over time, so

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eventually it gets lower lower a bar, like we're kind

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of sitting on a tool stack now with these new

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tools that they could be more generalized. Certainly, I've I've

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worked hard to get a basic application running, and see

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Sharp with those tools said hey, why don't you make

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us in rush? And it's the switching languages for those

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kinds of tools. They don't care. It's all the same

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to it, right, dude.

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Speaker 1: I remember when dot net first came out and there

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was a VB six to VB net converter.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember this? Yeah? I remember, yeah, I think

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I knew some of the folks who work on it.

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Speaker 1: And I was disappointed to see that. What they did

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is they created a visual Basic interrupt library in dot

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net that had the keywords for visual Basic six but

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dot net arized and then all they did was they

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changed it to these you know, keywords or whatever. I

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was like, you're not really, you're not really moving to

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VB net.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're no.

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Speaker 1: But now, of course, in twenty twenty five, if there

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was something like that, and of course there is. I mean,

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there's these lms they could just directly convert from one

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language to another, like you're talking about Richard, and it's

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just so much better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to someone the other day.

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They pulled up a really interesting uh UI component. You know,

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you know, I'm in the dot net space. So when

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I talk to somebody who's working with, you know, something

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not the dot net space, and they pull up a

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UI component I haven't seen, I kind of get really excited.

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I don't know if I don't know if you've ever

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seen what is it called? React flow is what it's called.

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It's this fantastic react flow. Yeah. React flow. It's this

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great component you can set up like you know, like

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mind map type apps. And we got to look in

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at that, and I was thinking, like, it's really cool.

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You can just like toss the a Hey, I want

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an app that has a back end that looks like

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this and the front end that looks like that, and

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he goes, okay, hang on a second, you know, and

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it just kind of like turns that out for you.

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That's always really interesting. But I think it's good to

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have context, you know, like like for you to kind

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of say I want this part, and I want that part,

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and I want this part A great yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: You have to go have that, otherwise you might end

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up with something that you're not sure what it does

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or why.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Do y'all ever say your prompts as you progress?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Ever ever played that game? Okay, okay, that's always interesting.

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Speaker 2: I have a library of prompts.

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Speaker 3: Good.

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Speaker 1: I have a library of other people's prompts that's opp yeah, yeah,

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for for those who are keeping score, and also my

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prompts that I've created. But in fact, there's a whole

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library in GitHub of prompts just that that are for

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different things that people have created and Microsoft created it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well I'm more I'm more or less

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talking about like you open up you know, follow new

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folder you know or whatever. Uh you know, uh, and

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you start working on a project and you vibe coded

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or you spectra you know, you know, whatever you do,

475
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,160
do you save the prompts that you use as you

476
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,319
go along, Like at various points you hit the the

477
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:46,440
new chat window.

478
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:48,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know what I mean, only the ones

479
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,359
that worked, Okay, I don't save the ones with the result.

480
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:55,880
Speaker 2: Is you stupid little man?

481
00:22:57,799 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 3: I actually did experiment with that. One time. I saved everyone,

482
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:03,319
and every time I would go there to hit the button,

483
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,920
I would I would, you know, save that prompt It

484
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,440
was zero zero one zero zero zero. And then and

485
00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:12,839
then I asked it at the very end, I said, Okay,

486
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,160
I want you to make a basically a table of contents,

487
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:18,720
you know what I mean? Okay, that is the kind

488
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,640
of demonstrates the storyline of like how we got here together.

489
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,119
You know, it's great, this is like act one, you know.

490
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:27,559
And I also want you to add like kind of

491
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,200
a like a vibe summary, like you know, like like

492
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:32,000
how Brady felt at the end of that. You know

493
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,319
that that phase of the experiment. Wow, it's very interesting

494
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,640
to look back at it and watch and kind of think, wow,

495
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,559
it's an interesting journey, you know. But when I got

496
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:39,759
out of it, it worked really well.

497
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: So every time I talk to people who are using

498
00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:45,400
these MLMs, I get things like this that I never

499
00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:49,160
thought of that, like that is just such a brilliant idea.

500
00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:53,920
But it's just when everything's open ended, sometimes we don't

501
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,519
have because we don't have the constraints.

502
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 3: Oh exactly.

503
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,799
Speaker 1: It's sometimes it's it's difficult to even think of things

504
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:00,160
like that.

505
00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well well, well if you've looked

506
00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:04,440
up react flow in the last minute and a half

507
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,240
since I mentioned that, because you're curious as to what

508
00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:09,599
it looked like, people check it out, you know, like

509
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:13,640
like like like think about react flow. Okay, last from

510
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,279
the past plus the ex SLC arguments list object to

511
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,240
create a work.

512
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:21,319
Speaker 2: So that hurts my brain.

513
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 3: Oh, we basically build biz talk and and and reactalk

514
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,240
is back.

515
00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:37,839
Speaker 2: There's a whole bunch of millennials going what he because

516
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:40,759
when I think biz talk, I think node and react

517
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,079
that's what I think.

518
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 3: Wow, It's like it's like it's like those old J

519
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,079
and B edge always come back to what you know?

520
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,559
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but you know, look what is our lives

521
00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:56,920
as developers but getting dated from one place, munging it

522
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,279
in some way and sending it on to another place.

523
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,160
And that's what you just described, you know, always exactly right.

524
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 3: It's like this year's hierarchical, next year it will be

525
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:07,960
in a relational again.

526
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:08,519
Speaker 2: There you go.

527
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, what's what's what's our next topic? What

528
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:15,559
do we have new shoes here?

529
00:25:16,799 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: Brandy, it's your show man. You tell us what the

530
00:25:19,519 --> 00:25:22,359
next topic is you got a great one? I talked

531
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,640
about Savannah's the story of Azure or dev c l

532
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,920
I and and he worked on that. Did you Uh No,

533
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,400
I was, I was.

534
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: I was her biggest fan. It's funny, I'm I'm I'm

535
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,000
sitting I'm sitting here looking at an azy D script

536
00:25:39,079 --> 00:25:43,359
I just write with help from GBT. Uh. Savannah and

537
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,200
I work together because Uh. At the beginning of Aspire,

538
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,960
I remember saying, guys, I think we need something that

539
00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:54,920
will like talk to a cloud. So like, whatever we

540
00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:57,319
do with like the Aspire at the time it was

541
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,400
it wasn't a manifest yet, whatever we do with a

542
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:03,799
fire should probably emit some sort of intermediate language that like,

543
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,759
you know, Azure could turn into buy SEP and a

544
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,720
w S could turn into whatever Google.

545
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

546
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: Right, And they were like, nah, it's all she's sharp.

547
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,039
And I was like, Okay, yeah, that's fine, that's cool.

548
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: Well, I'll just be here when you're ready to do that,

549
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,160
you know what I mean, when you come to your senses,

550
00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:21,440
I'll be right over here.

551
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:24,559
Speaker 3: Mitch and I Mitch and I ended up you know,

552
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,039
Mitch filter prototype, and it was it was pretty hot

553
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,039
and for reasons it wasn't time for it yet, you

554
00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:32,200
know what I mean, So we like didn't do it.

555
00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:34,319
But at the time I was talking to Savannah because

556
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,799
you know, she was like, you know, like what's your

557
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,599
what's your suggestion for working with this your team or that,

558
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,440
like do this you know he likes snickers bars, you know, whatever,

559
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,920
you know, and and uh, you know exactly you're getting

560
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,119
the reality of it exactly. That's old Skyka trick, by

561
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,839
the way. But but we we we consulted a lot,

562
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,319
you know what I mean. And I was a huge

563
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,079
fan of the work that she was doing and in

564
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,039
and in on some of the AI stuff. But at

565
00:27:03,079 --> 00:27:05,000
the time, you know, we were like, we need a

566
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:08,599
cool way of deploying you know, Aspire apps to uh

567
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,319
to Azure. So we came up with the way that

568
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,680
we we had at first, which was like emitting you know,

569
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:16,400
like working really really tightly with a z D. But

570
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,599
it was like such an easy button, you know what

571
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,279
I mean. It was like such an easy button for

572
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:22,680
a lot of folks. They kind of wanted to be

573
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:25,240
able to break the glass, you know, myself included what

574
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,680
we have now and Aspire is like amazing, It's like

575
00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:28,279
so much.

576
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: Better Yeah, it is amazing to rely on a D

577
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:33,319
as well, but it has other options.

578
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: No, you have a lot of other options. I mean,

579
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,720
it never relied on a z D like like what

580
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:40,160
you would get out the other end, the easy, the

581
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,519
easy part of it, like whatever you would whatever you

582
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,839
get out the other end that would run through AZD.

583
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,039
Speaker 1: Can I brag a little bit about about Aspire?

584
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 3: Sure?

585
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 2: This week?

586
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: Okay, I say this week's It was the week of

587
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:59,440
eleven five. Okay, So Jeff Fritz and I did a

588
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,599
code it with AI episode where we basically had a

589
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,279
text to t SQL generator and we initially wanted to

590
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,599
use an MCP, but it turned out that it's just

591
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,079
not quite ready yet. It's still evolving, and we didn't

592
00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:19,759
want to show people how to install node and then

593
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,519
do all this stuff and it turned out to be complicated.

594
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,799
So we basically just used an embedded MCP to get

595
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,720
the table schemas for the four tables that were in

596
00:28:32,839 --> 00:28:36,240
our database, and then we use that in the system

597
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,559
prompt and that was enough.

598
00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 2: You know.

599
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,359
Speaker 1: We basically said generate t sql from the following text

600
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,400
prompt and it did it. But the thing about it

601
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,039
was that we used Aspire to spin up an instance

602
00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:55,440
of SQL server in a container, and we didn't have

603
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,319
to have Seql on the machine, we didn't have to

604
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,559
have SQL anywhere, Nobody had to have a Sequel license.

605
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,359
It went right in the repo and anybody can just

606
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,039
download this app, download this code and run it, and

607
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,960
Aspire will fire up the containers and we're running against Sequel.

608
00:29:14,359 --> 00:29:16,720
And not only that, but we included the script to

609
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:20,599
generate the database and it just freaking works.

610
00:29:20,839 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: That's cool, that's really And I was so impressed.

611
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,799
Speaker 1: I had I didn't know that that was possible, and

612
00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:27,119
I was just so impressed.

613
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: That's cool. That's cool. One of the early stupid experiments

614
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,119
that we did. Have you all heard about the rust thing.

615
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:35,200
I'm sorry, Maddie.

616
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: Are you apologizing to Maddie.

617
00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: I don't remember. I don't remember which release it was.

618
00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:51,559
It was like shortly after Maddie had like become the

619
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,519
Queen of the Fire. But we, uh, so we were yeah,

620
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:04,000
so we were were. Uh. She was putting together some slides, okay,

621
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,119
and one of the slides was about the community Toolkit,

622
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,599
all right, So she the slide goes up on the

623
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,799
screen and I looked at it and I remember doing

624
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:15,559
a double take and immediately I look at my screen

625
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,680
and Jeff Fritz is I ming me and he goes,

626
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,599
I know you saw that. He goes, I know you're

627
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:24,799
going to lose it. It's not what you think it is.

628
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,160
And I looked and I went, was that the Face

629
00:30:28,279 --> 00:30:32,680
Punch Rust logo? And he said yeah it was. And

630
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:37,359
I was like, is there a face Punch Rust integration

631
00:30:37,519 --> 00:30:40,039
for a spire that nobody told me about? And he

632
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:46,039
said no, Maddie used the wrong logo, right, so.

633
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,279
Speaker 2: That everybody else can enjoy the joke punch, So right, Yeah.

634
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,359
Speaker 3: Face Punch is a game studio and they made a

635
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920
really funny game called Gary's Mod. It's built on top

636
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,559
of the Unity with the with the intention of like

637
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,079
super extending the game and like making it whatever you want.

638
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:05,079
And then they kind of followed up and they built

639
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:11,480
an extraordinarily aggressive survival game called Rust. And there's a

640
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:13,960
lot of different ways to play Rust, but it too

641
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,759
is built on top of Unity and dot net And

642
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,680
at the time I had been learning it's APIs to

643
00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:23,680
kind of kind of customize the game a little bit.

644
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,559
And I remember I am Mattie and she was like,

645
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,720
what do I do, and I was like, well, I

646
00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:30,599
don't think they like it when you use their logo

647
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,559
in correctly, but I think this is going to be okay.

648
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,799
And she goes, it's on Reddit and I went, well,

649
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:37,559
I got to get to work. So I built an

650
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:41,599
Aspire integration for the game Rust that you would run

651
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,720
the Aspire thing and you go get a coffee and

652
00:31:43,799 --> 00:31:46,440
make a sandwich and maybe maybe go for a run,

653
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,839
and like when you came back the game Rust would

654
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,000
be running on your computer inside of an Aspire orchestration engine.

655
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,480
That's crazy, and here's your video. And she was like,

656
00:31:56,599 --> 00:32:02,920
thank you for keeping me honest. So that was our

657
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,440
little that was like a twenty six hour like you know,

658
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:06,880
Brady has to make it happen.

659
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: So it was fun.

660
00:32:10,039 --> 00:32:10,599
Speaker 3: It was a good time.

661
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: So has Neil Young complained about Rust yet?

662
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:13,279
Speaker 2: I'm sorry?

663
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:13,559
Speaker 3: Have you?

664
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,279
Speaker 2: Are you admitting you built an interface to deal with

665
00:32:17,079 --> 00:32:19,920
misappropriated logo? Is that what you're saying? Uh?

666
00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:28,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I mean you put you put the

667
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,680
logo out there. So then like I remember pinging Aaron

668
00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:33,119
and I was like, you're gonna put this in the

669
00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:36,839
community tolkit. He was like no, if it's like it's

670
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,559
got base And like a couple of days later, I

671
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:41,640
saw he and Pine talking about it, and he pulled

672
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:43,279
up Rust and they both kind of snickered, you know,

673
00:32:43,319 --> 00:32:45,240
because Pine knew I was working on it. I was texting.

674
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,640
But you know, I guess, like, here' there's some Rust

675
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,839
fans on your team. It was funny.

676
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,119
Speaker 2: It's a classic game.

677
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,799
Speaker 3: It was like great, it was funny. That was great.

678
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,799
Mitch had some comments. He was like, do I have

679
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,160
to learn how to play Russ? Now? I was like

680
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,960
a from It's like that. That's that would be bad.

681
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,279
It's like a modern warcraft. I guess.

682
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, take a break, Richard, Yeah, we should

683
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,519
take a break, all right, go ahead, all right, and

684
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,559
we will be back after these few important messages.

685
00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:17,759
Speaker 1: You know, dot net six has officially reached the end

686
00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:21,000
of support, and now is the time to upgrade. Dot

687
00:33:21,119 --> 00:33:24,759
Net eight is well supported on aws. Learn more at

688
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:27,920
aws dot Amazon dot com, slash dot net.

689
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: And we're back. It's dot at rock summerger Cavi. Let's

690
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,200
call Franklin. You she is hanging with our friend Brady Gaster.

691
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,119
Talk a little bit about, you know, his crazy career

692
00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:42,440
making all of us more productive.

693
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 3: How are y'all doing.

694
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, we're really grateful there, Brady, thanks much

695
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,440
for this stuff. But it has to be harder than

696
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,880
you came along. That's great.

697
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 3: I texted my family and I was like, I just

698
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,839
have to give y'all some have to give y'all some love.

699
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,319
I texted him and I said, I get to do

700
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,799
a bucket listing today. Uh, I said, what are you doing?

701
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,480
And I was like, I get to be on dot

702
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:06,160
at rocks of these guys forever. And have you never

703
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,400
had an opportunity or I've never been cool left to

704
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,239
be on the show whatever that you have.

705
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were on a panel at some point we

706
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:15,639
just a.

707
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: Million billion years ago. Yeah, we don't know back in

708
00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:19,639
the day, but.

709
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the day I met Michelle Monthay.

710
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I tried to imagine. It was probably

711
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:26,440
a while ago.

712
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:30,519
Speaker 3: It was in Vegas. Vegas, probably cameras decided to blur,

713
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:31,719
makes sense.

714
00:34:32,519 --> 00:34:34,199
Speaker 2: We were all together in Lisbon for sure.

715
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I was a good time. That was kind

716
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,400
of a reunion of sorts.

717
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: It was. It was very much a you know, cadre

718
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,519
of the old school studio and uh see, sharp speakers

719
00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:47,960
and definitely we went. We had a good time in

720
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:48,719
two ways about that.

721
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: Oh, it was good. It was a lot of fun.

722
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:52,440
It was a lot of fun. Yeah, weather it was fantastic. Nice,

723
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:54,480
nice to nice to enjoy that, it's.

724
00:34:54,599 --> 00:34:57,519
Speaker 2: It's a lovely area, and twos about it. What you

725
00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:59,599
what was your talk there? You were talking about this

726
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,119
like the right path of cloud development with with with studio.

727
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 3: I was my first session that the first day was about,

728
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,880
you know, visual Studio and Azure development, and like I

729
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:16,920
kind of alluded to earlier, you know, one of the

730
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,280
things we talked about were like the different the different

731
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,320
Azure you know, the different Aspire features that we have

732
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:26,519
along like right click publishing. And one of the features

733
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:30,440
that we added right before we shipped the last last

734
00:35:30,519 --> 00:35:34,599
update was being able to deploy one service at a time,

735
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,039
so essentially that those VAS tools sit on top of

736
00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:40,280
a z D up And one of the things that

737
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,119
I'd hope that we would get at some point was

738
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,840
the be abley to sit on top of a z

739
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,239
D deployee service right so if you had like three

740
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,320
or four services in your Aspire app, being able to

741
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,440
multiple at one time. We were able to get that

742
00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,599
done right about the time you know right about the

743
00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:57,400
time we shipped that update, so it was like kind

744
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:58,960
of fun to get that to get that in there,

745
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:04,840
but we got that done right then. And then the

746
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:07,159
thing that I was most excited to be able to

747
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,159
show was the various things that you can do using

748
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,599
the GitHub copilot for Azure, which is essentially kind of

749
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:20,679
the brand name for getting the Azure MCP tools inside

750
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,880
of VS and VS code, and that was really fun

751
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,280
to be able to work with Shane's team and case

752
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,400
team to be able to bring that over to VS

753
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,880
and to be able to literally say things like I

754
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,480
want to deploy this app to the cloud, and it

755
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:38,400
kind of knows like go go download the pub xml file,

756
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:40,840
do this, do that, whatever, you know, So that was

757
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,920
really fun being able to I think I put published

758
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,199
a video on LinkedIn. I could probably send you of

759
00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:50,639
doing an experiment with it. I sent Hunter a video

760
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,760
and he was like, what's this And I was like,

761
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,079
it's an empty API and worker project. He was like,

762
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:57,280
what do I do with it? I was like, look

763
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,239
at the prompt So he copies the prompts, pay is

764
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,559
it in, you know, pace it in, and it's basically

765
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,199
build me a web q worker that sits on top

766
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,679
of Azure storage keys, and it runs and it goes

767
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,119
and it processed the whole thing and provisions everything and

768
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,320
configures everything. And he was like, this is cool. Can

769
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,280
I use this? Yeah? Yeh yeh yeah. So it was

770
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,639
a lot of fun to be able to like do

771
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,719
those kinds of things. If you think about what we

772
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,960
were able to do for years with connected services, we

773
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:27,840
were curating like onesie two zi services at a time,

774
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,760
you know, like this this month we had you know, Signalore,

775
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,400
you know what I mean or whatever. There's like seven

776
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,159
thousand services and Azure, you know. So if you think

777
00:37:36,159 --> 00:37:38,800
about the idea of just sitting on top of those tools,

778
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,920
and those tools sit on top of the A Z

779
00:37:41,079 --> 00:37:43,559
CLI or the a z d c l I, you know,

780
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,639
just being able to call the tools and the you know,

781
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,519
call the like you're done, you know what I mean.

782
00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:50,760
So it's it's it's nice, it's it's been it's been

783
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:51,559
a great partnership.

784
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: I find myself not looking up the syntax anymore for

785
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,880
all this stuff. Right, Okay, it just the co pilot

786
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,400
spits out. The one thing it can is at least

787
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,199
is syntax that will run. It might not be the

788
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,840
thing you wanted to run, right, but it will out

789
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,760
right where most of the time when I'm typing the

790
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,880
syntax from the dogs, it doesn't run at all.

791
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:16,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly. It's messed up. That's till I messed up. Yeah,

792
00:38:16,159 --> 00:38:18,679
it's it's it's been. It's it's been a fun partnership

793
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,880
with them. Like I said, at first, it was it was,

794
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,639
you know, wow, like a lot of the stuff that

795
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:27,079
we were going to build, you know, we don't have

796
00:38:27,119 --> 00:38:28,800
to build. We can let the AI do it now.

797
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:29,159
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

798
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:32,519
Speaker 3: And then it turned into wow, now that the a

799
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:34,159
I was doing that for us, we can go build

800
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:37,199
this right, And I think that's the way people ought

801
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:38,159
to think about it, you know.

802
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, yeah, I've had I've had a

803
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,599
few conversations now with folks about what software just was

804
00:38:43,679 --> 00:38:46,800
never going to get built because our backlogs were so

805
00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:49,519
large and the barrier to entry to starting any project

806
00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:53,719
was so high. And as these simpler problems can be

807
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,239
more automated or at least you get this eighty twenty effect,

808
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:58,800
and a bunch of he lift, he's done, a bunch

809
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,159
of the basic stuff has done it. Now you do

810
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,679
the heavy lifting parts. I just think we're going to

811
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,280
make more software, you know, the same way when it

812
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,079
got to use you to travel when the internet was

813
00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:09,599
introduced to that, you know, maybe there were fewer travel agents,

814
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:11,320
but there was a lot more travel going on.

815
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. Well, one thing I think that you know,

816
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:17,679
you were talking about how it's really just you know,

817
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,119
moving data from point A to point B higher of course,

818
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,000
you know whatever. You know, back in the day, we

819
00:39:22,199 --> 00:39:24,679
were using as m X, and then we were using wisdoms,

820
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,920
and then we were you know, then we're using rest APIs.

821
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,519
I really think if you wanted to you know, do

822
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:34,679
you know the the acronym that you probably bund up

823
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:36,719
as much as I've burned up open a PI versus

824
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,880
open AI. You know, if you if you think about

825
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,239
you know, open a p I as the you know,

826
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,079
description layer for back end APIs, you think about MCP

827
00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:49,039
as a description layer for those tools that the A

828
00:39:49,159 --> 00:39:51,239
I can use, It's really the same thing. You know.

829
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,920
It's just like now your front end is an a

830
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,360
c GP. It's just the chat wind to you know,

831
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,280
we're like texting to all those tools to get what

832
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:57,679
we want.

833
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of cool, and we used to do this

834
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:02,920
with a search tool and a lot of cut and

835
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,400
pasting and disassemble it, and now these new generator tools

836
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,639
will largely put that together for you. You still have

837
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,719
to push on bits and make sure it's correct, but

838
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,840
you had to do that anyway because you screwed up

839
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,920
too exactly. No, No, this is novel. We've all made mistakes,

840
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,320
but it is faster. Oh yeah, it is.

841
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:25,519
Speaker 3: You mentioned Condrent earlier. We were in a meeting one

842
00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:26,880
day and I was telling them I think I have

843
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,480
an MCP tool that I can feed some stuff too

844
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:32,599
to play MIDI ended up showing this a build and

845
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:34,400
I showed him. He was like, stop, stop, what are

846
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,360
you doing? What are you doing? And I was like,

847
00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:38,679
I'm typing the name of the MCP tool And he

848
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,880
was like, why are you typing the name of the

849
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,719
mc pole And I went because I got to call

850
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,599
it tool. He went, just just say play the note

851
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,920
and I went, you're thinking too much like a developer bag.

852
00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: He was.

853
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,079
Speaker 3: He goes, look at the description put in the attribute

854
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:02,679
Mike told you to write. And I read it and

855
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,840
he goes, that's all think of think of it knowing everything,

856
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,159
And I went, what he was sayl place play middle Seed,

857
00:41:10,599 --> 00:41:14,159
I write play middle Sea. I was like, he goes, okay,

858
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:20,199
go go go experiment. So like that that turned into

859
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,039
build them up.

860
00:41:21,199 --> 00:41:24,679
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, So Brady, what do you think of

861
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,480
these uh LLM tools that produce music? And now there's

862
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:32,440
some pushback on those for copyright infringement and stuff. But

863
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:35,800
my friend, I have a friend who is not a musician,

864
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,119
and he's just enamored of this stuff. And I tend

865
00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:41,679
to think of it like, you know, the people who

866
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,679
have who had in the eighties the cassio keyboards that

867
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,760
had like the little rhythms and the tempo and all

868
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,559
the buttons and stuff where they could make up stuff

869
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:55,480
and then change the chords with like one or two

870
00:41:55,559 --> 00:41:58,519
keys in the bottom and then play stuff. I kind

871
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:00,920
of tend to think of it like that. But then

872
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,159
they listened to some of these songs and and I'm like, wow,

873
00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:08,800
those are really really good. I mean, I wouldn't say

874
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,079
they're good, like I would listen to them over and

875
00:42:11,199 --> 00:42:13,159
over again, like this is a great.

876
00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:15,599
Speaker 3: It's like it's not like Marvin Gay good, you know.

877
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:21,039
But yeah, yeah, so I just.

878
00:42:22,559 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: Let's find another artist.

879
00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 3: Oh is it not like he's fantastic, that's my point.

880
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:34,719
Was a musical genius? Good. Yeah. I say that because

881
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,920
I read an interesting interview with him where he was like,

882
00:42:37,039 --> 00:42:40,880
music producers are not getting better, you know any Uh?

883
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,960
This gentleman that I gave, he's the only to Ben Jordan.

884
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:44,719
He's one of my favorite and he'll become one of

885
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,280
your favorite YouTubers. He's an amazing musician and he's also

886
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,760
kind of like a scientist, and he understands a lot

887
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,440
of the things that you're talking about, and one of

888
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,960
them is AI and he'll actually like take a, take a,

889
00:42:57,199 --> 00:43:00,119
take a. He'll buy a sample from He's got a

890
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:02,559
show where he buys a sample from like one of

891
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:05,360
the vendors that you can buy samples from, put it

892
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,320
on his device, make his track out of it, and

893
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,400
play it back to one of those like is it

894
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,519
is it copy written? You know? Tools? Yeah, and it

895
00:43:12,599 --> 00:43:15,480
will identify the it will identify like seven or eight

896
00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:17,239
different artists that those sounds came from.

897
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 2: Wow, And he's like, what do we do? Like you

898
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:22,440
just watch me make this?

899
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

900
00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I was occurring to me. I was

901
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,000
listening to a show where people on the radio were

902
00:43:30,039 --> 00:43:36,760
talking about trying to curb the creation of deep fakes

903
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,800
and that kind of stuff with copyright, but there seemed

904
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,239
to they seem to be more interested in copyright infringement

905
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,599
than deep fakes themselves. Like I'm I'm really concerned about

906
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:52,840
somebody who could, for example, take your voice from this

907
00:43:53,519 --> 00:43:56,960
podcast and then any video that you have on the

908
00:43:57,039 --> 00:44:00,360
Internet of you talking and you know, turning into a

909
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,440
confession of a crime or something like that, and then

910
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,760
bring use that as evidence in a court of law.

911
00:44:06,639 --> 00:44:10,320
I'm really concerned about that. And it seems to me

912
00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:13,599
like if there's something out there that can identify pieces

913
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:19,559
of a song as being you know, copyright infringement, wouldn't

914
00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:22,360
it be cool? And I mean world change, like life

915
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,679
changing if there was something where you could upload an

916
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,400
image or a video and say, has this been generated

917
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,000
by an AI and the tool maybe only with the

918
00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:37,559
tool that could have generated it, right, would have to

919
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,199
have analysis deep enough to say, oh, well, it looks

920
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,280
like this piece came from this source, and this piece

921
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:43,960
came from this source.

922
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: But I don't think they do.

923
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: But if such a tool existed, we wouldn't have to

924
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:54,199
worry so much about, you know, impinging on people's rights

925
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:55,199
to create stuff.

926
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:56,519
Speaker 2: Yes, let's say it.

927
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:59,119
Speaker 1: Let's face it, that's a good thing when people can

928
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:02,079
create things. But but then we would have a tool

929
00:45:02,559 --> 00:45:07,360
where people could defend themselves against being you know, faked.

930
00:45:07,519 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's sort of like EXIF data for like

931
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:18,079
like videos, but for wow, just yeah, see here's what

932
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:21,000
and see here here's why I think that you'd really

933
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,719
be onto something there. There are a series of podcasts

934
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,159
about partly it's a very dark topic for your show,

935
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:32,079
but the shows about folks who they get an it job.

936
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:34,639
You know, they like live in country food and they

937
00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:36,960
get an it job and then they're like taking in

938
00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:38,960
a bus with a whole bunch of other people to

939
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:41,159
a building that looks like a hotel but it's actually

940
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,960
kind of a prison and they have to hang out there.

941
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,920
Those places. I've listened to a few podcasts about those places.

942
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,719
Harrifying stories have They use those types of AI to

943
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:56,519
manipulate people into scams like that, you know, right, and

944
00:45:56,639 --> 00:45:57,159
especially on.

945
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: The phone, you know, they find examples of I don't

946
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,280
know somebody on the phone and then they make an

947
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,920
AI of that and then they call the parents or

948
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,000
whatever and say, hey, I'm stranded and you know somewhere,

949
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:12,559
can you please wire me some money?

950
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

951
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was really happy one day when after

952
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,039
all the time, you know, all the different security works

953
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:20,639
that I've done, and.

954
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,199
Speaker 2: I know Barry, so you all know Barry. You know Barry.

955
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 3: So at some point exactly so at some point, you know,

956
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,039
my my oldest comes in and he was like, he

957
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:35,320
shows me the phone and he goes this year and

958
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:41,639
I was like, good, yes, that was me. He walks away.

959
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:44,480
It's like a password on me. I was like, yes, I.

960
00:46:46,559 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 2: That's right.

961
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: You know what, because I can't and I'm your father,

962
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,119
brought you into this world, I'll take you out.

963
00:46:56,039 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was kind of funny. Uh but yeah,

964
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,159
we've we've we've had some security conversations in the house

965
00:47:01,159 --> 00:47:02,559
and now they know to come to me whenever they

966
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:03,800
get a text saying this is you.

967
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I remember. Richard used to have that issue

968
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,000
with his daughters if he ever wanted to. Instead of

969
00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:14,679
grounding them, he just like cut off their internetcess until

970
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,519
they called him and said, god, Dad.

971
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,559
Speaker 2: Let's let's be clear. Parenting fun at this fundamental level

972
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,760
is about learning what your children care about and taking

973
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:22,880
it away from them. That's right.

974
00:47:26,639 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 3: Love is like seventh orright on that list.

975
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,199
Speaker 2: No, No, Usually I just do a VNC remote keyboard

976
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,039
in mouse control and then write a little box, dear daughter,

977
00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:47,119
this is your laundry. I'm very sad being scattered all

978
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:49,639
over the laundry room. I wish I was clean and

979
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:50,599
in the drawers.

980
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 3: Oh, it's just me thinking of you.

981
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 2: Or if you just cut it off. We just cut

982
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,599
it off, and you're.

983
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,639
Speaker 1: So vaine you don't say anything, and then they just

984
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,960
get to send you a message, says okay, dad.

985
00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:03,639
Speaker 2: He was always very clever. She came down and asked me,

986
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,320
are you my laundry's conscience. Yeah.

987
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 3: On the other side of that door is the fourteen

988
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:17,400
year olds the laundry. You know, doors closed for living.

989
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

990
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,559
Speaker 1: You know. Have you played around with the co pilot

991
00:48:23,039 --> 00:48:23,480
c L I.

992
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,519
Speaker 3: I have not played around with the I'm embarrassed to say.

993
00:48:26,639 --> 00:48:29,639
Speaker 1: It's it's like so stinking new as of its recording

994
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:32,400
that the only person who knows anything about it is Handsoman.

995
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,039
Speaker 3: He showed showed it to me the other day. A

996
00:48:38,119 --> 00:48:39,719
team might have not showed it to me the other day.

997
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,119
He's involved in some upcoming things that I think, but

998
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,719
I I want it.

999
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks pretty good. Fritz and I might do

1000
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:52,360
a show about it next week.

1001
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,639
Speaker 3: But see, is it behind like some locked door or something.

1002
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I will know later to day or tomorrow,

1003
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,039
I'm sure let me know.

1004
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,559
Speaker 2: Signal. Yeah, I'd like to have it.

1005
00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:10,159
Speaker 3: I'd like to have it cool.

1006
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 2: That would be cool. All these different There are too

1007
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,039
many co pilots, man, Like, it is hard. I know,

1008
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,119
it is hard to keep track of that many planes. Yeah.

1009
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 3: I came home and I was like kind of complaining

1010
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,119
to my wife, and I was like, you know, it's

1011
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:27,760
super annoying that there's like I can do all these

1012
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,760
things with co pilot, and there's the stuff that I

1013
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,719
want to do with my MIDI and my CV that

1014
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,280
I can't do. I smile, and I was like, so

1015
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,000
I used I used so I used co pilot to

1016
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:41,880
design a three D rendering of the MIDI to CV device.

1017
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,199
I think I'm going to figure out.

1018
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: That control voltage control have a controlled synthesizers and after.

1019
00:49:57,159 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 3: Uh and then the next day I saw that device somebody.

1020
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: But that's the whole thing you're speaking about. Now we

1021
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,159
can start just describing the problem we have and these

1022
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,960
tools can help us, even if necessarily get to a

1023
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,400
point of creating hardware around it exactly.

1024
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 1: I had chat GPT write me a Windows console app

1025
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,119
that plays a midifile. Simple, but it worked. And I

1026
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,000
did that to diagnose a problem that I found was

1027
00:50:23,079 --> 00:50:28,159
in my DAW, my digital audio workstation, that this particular

1028
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,480
midifile wasn't being played correctly, and my little C sharp

1029
00:50:32,639 --> 00:50:33,960
player played it just fine.

1030
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 2: Hmm.

1031
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the whole piano thing that I talked about, Richard.

1032
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 2: I have a piano.

1033
00:50:39,039 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: You see this piano back here, Brady. So it's a

1034
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,719
Baby Grand It's Yamaha C nine I think I can't

1035
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,400
remember the name, but anyway, it has the symphony, which

1036
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:54,559
is a MIDI controller, and there's a selenoid under every key,

1037
00:50:55,159 --> 00:50:57,559
and so not only does it act as a MIDI controller,

1038
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,119
but it will receive MIDI and then play like a

1039
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:05,360
player piano nice and I have and it's it's older,

1040
00:51:05,639 --> 00:51:08,320
and it has this problem and I really couldn't figure

1041
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:09,840
out what it was. But when I used it as

1042
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,559
a mini controller to record a MIDI file and then

1043
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:15,639
played it back from the DAW, it would the the

1044
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:17,960
sequence of a.

1045
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,079
Speaker 2: Pedal controller up and.

1046
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:24,599
Speaker 1: Down would be out of time, right, and so it

1047
00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:29,159
would basically hold like there there was some weirdness about it.

1048
00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:32,039
So I basically what I wanted to do with this

1049
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:37,719
is have a MIDI file of the artist recording UH

1050
00:51:38,119 --> 00:51:40,400
in you know, with a drummer, because the drums aren't

1051
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,440
open Mike and pianos open mic everybody else can go

1052
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,960
direct and UH and then edit with MIDI and then

1053
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:51,800
play it back and record it at the same time.

1054
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,320
And that wasn't working. So what I did is I

1055
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,000
have this little tool that I wrote that can playback

1056
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:01,719
a MIDI file and record and a wave file in

1057
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,360
stereo from that input the microphone input at the same

1058
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,079
time there in sync.

1059
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,119
Speaker 3: It's pretty money and I solve the problem that way.

1060
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:10,679
That's good.

1061
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: That's good. But I love that because who does that?

1062
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:13,840
Speaker 1: Right?

1063
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:14,519
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1064
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:17,119
Speaker 3: Well, I remember one of the first things that I

1065
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,519
would chatted with you guys about in Orlando, in fact,

1066
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:25,679
was this idea that I had of doing like remote

1067
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:28,880
mini sync between devices.

1068
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,519
Speaker 2: Right, and.

1069
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:36,079
Speaker 3: Jamie ended up getting it working, but using signalare. So

1070
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:38,840
you signal are to pump it over a CTP and

1071
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,760
then like have a client that would just feed that

1072
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,760
over like to MIDI and I was like, hey, it's

1073
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,679
just three bites, like it would totally work.

1074
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 2: But it's sync though it's not.

1075
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: It wouldn't be insane. It's too slow. It's too slow

1076
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:51,280
to be in sync because I think, like anybody who's

1077
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,639
a drummer, I think it's like six milliseconds and you

1078
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,000
feel it, you know what I mean, So you know

1079
00:52:57,119 --> 00:52:58,880
it's like it's never gonna work.

1080
00:52:59,239 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: You know.

1081
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,119
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember we figured that out as the bar.

1082
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:03,679
We were like, okay, so you're going to have at

1083
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,519
least a nintisecond to get from the device.

1084
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:13,519
Speaker 2: Not anosecond. Up is better.

1085
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,079
Speaker 1: Although I actually have a balan that uses Cat six

1086
00:53:18,199 --> 00:53:21,599
cable to go long distances where I can plug a

1087
00:53:21,679 --> 00:53:23,760
midian a MIDI out on one side, mini and mini

1088
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:24,239
on the other.

1089
00:53:24,639 --> 00:53:26,039
Speaker 2: But how long is long distance?

1090
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,159
Speaker 1: One hundred yards, like way more than a MIDI cable.

1091
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:33,039
And I actually use that to go around the room

1092
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:36,079
in the studio from my machine to the piano and

1093
00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:38,599
it works great. It's pretty much instantaneous. I mean, I

1094
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:41,400
don't know exactly what the millisecond delay is, but you

1095
00:53:41,519 --> 00:53:42,320
can't tell, but.

1096
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 2: That could be in the millisecond range. Shine, it's not

1097
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,800
like you're going across the ocean. Yeah you know, now

1098
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,840
it's two hundred milliseconds and everybody knows.

1099
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,280
Speaker 1: Well, if you're going across the ocean, I think your best.

1100
00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:54,639
Speaker 2: Bet would be UDIP. Yeah, it helps, but it's just I.

1101
00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:56,639
Speaker 1: Could tell you a joke about UDP, but you might

1102
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:57,119
not get it.

1103
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice, but if you tell it twice, the chances

1104
00:53:59,360 --> 00:53:59,880
will ride once.

1105
00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: That's good.

1106
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 2: That's gonna see what he did?

1107
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 3: What's a this awesome wedding the other day? It was

1108
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,840
these two people who were both Wi Fi technicians. There

1109
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,039
were something that was awesome.

1110
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 2: This is gonna be the all dad joke show. That's

1111
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:24,639
what it's gonna be.

1112
00:54:28,159 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 3: I don't know where it is.

1113
00:54:29,599 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: All right, well, five minutes left. Anything else you want

1114
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,840
to talk about before we hit the road? What have

1115
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:35,960
we not talked about? Work wise? Here?

1116
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:37,639
Speaker 3: I can't really think anything.

1117
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,599
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like kind of got through the whole thing.

1118
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,039
Speaker 3: I mean, it's I don't know when the show airs,

1119
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:44,119
but it's the beginning of November four, so it's the

1120
00:54:44,159 --> 00:54:46,840
beginning of conference season, in the beginning of like, oh wow,

1121
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,320
we did a lot this year, Like how are you here? As?

1122
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:50,039
Was it wild?

1123
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,519
Speaker 2: The roster for that confience crazy, like there's so much

1124
00:54:53,559 --> 00:54:56,840
in it and we haven't seen it officially yet, but

1125
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,960
you know, they it'll be out by the time this

1126
00:54:59,000 --> 00:54:59,280
show is.

1127
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:00,519
Speaker 3: It's gonna be. It's gonna be.

1128
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: It actually says on the calendar here that this will

1129
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,880
be out next Thursday, the thirteenth, next week.

1130
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, good, which is the week of dot com So

1131
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:10,599
I hope you had done net comfy. I know we did. Yeah,

1132
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:13,440
oh yeah, we loved it. Great time.

1133
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 3: I'm recording the keynote, Denno right now, are my stanza

1134
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,800
of it? Because my stands up of it's hours long.

1135
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,199
It's a it's the process of going through the whole

1136
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,000
like open a framework app, convert it to dot at

1137
00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:31,599
ten uh, and then put it through the paces of

1138
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:36,000
migrating it like moving your like getting off Windows a

1139
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:38,280
D and getting on intra ad or getting on intra

1140
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,239
id pard me sorry guys, and then like getting off

1141
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,119
sql local and getting in squl azure.

1142
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:44,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1143
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,119
Speaker 3: So it's been, it's been. It's been a fun set

1144
00:55:47,159 --> 00:55:50,760
of a fun set of recordings. They aren't they aren't quick,

1145
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,559
but they're quicker than doing it yourself. That's one of

1146
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:53,960
the things we were talking about with spect Kid is

1147
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,679
it'll give you the different like, hey, this phase is

1148
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,199
going to take you two weeks to do, and you go, okay,

1149
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,159
do phase one and I'll go make a coffee and

1150
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:04,360
you come back and plays ones. Yeah, yeah, think of

1151
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:05,119
the time it siting.

1152
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 2: That's cool. Yeah, that's the kind of bursts that we're getting, right,

1153
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,159
It's just like suddenly this thing is done, and I'll

1154
00:56:11,199 --> 00:56:13,079
make sure I include a link to a good hubspec kit.

1155
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:14,719
But go back and listen to the show we did

1156
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,320
with them on it as well. Yeah, we had a

1157
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:17,800
we had a great conversation for that.

1158
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: We had some good comments on Hybrid talk about that too,

1159
00:56:21,519 --> 00:56:23,480
about that show that we're probably going to have to

1160
00:56:23,559 --> 00:56:25,480
bring up in a couple of you know, a couple

1161
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:26,480
of shows from now or whatever.

1162
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:30,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're talking about fundamentally changing the way folks

1163
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,400
do development. And that's not an easy thing. Like people

1164
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,800
are really struggling with what's right, what's you know, what's

1165
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,159
the logical approach of this? Does this make any sense?

1166
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:41,800
You know, you're still seeing wholesayed folks are not our

1167
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:42,320
posed to it.

1168
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: While I was in Orlando at dev Intersection, Richard I

1169
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,719
sat down and talked to Brian Noyes for a while

1170
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,039
and we were talking about the whole AI and the

1171
00:56:51,159 --> 00:56:55,159
role of developers like our age in AI, and I

1172
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,960
brought up my idea of that we're no longer, you know,

1173
00:56:59,119 --> 00:57:01,480
carpenters were more like general contractors.

1174
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: Right. We have we hire all the different.

1175
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: Pages to do the work, but we know we have

1176
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:12,519
to know enough about building houses in order to be

1177
00:57:12,599 --> 00:57:14,840
able to supervise and to inspect and all of that

1178
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,039
stuff and to know when they're doing the right thing.

1179
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:21,440
And Brian said, man, I love that analogy. I'm going

1180
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:26,039
to steal that. And so literally two days ago or

1181
00:57:26,119 --> 00:57:28,519
three days ago, I saw a post on LinkedIn by

1182
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:32,320
Don Demsak, remember Don xml, Yeah, and he said the

1183
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:36,280
same exact thing. He said, we're like general contractors. And

1184
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,840
so this is resonating. And I probably am not the

1185
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,920
first one to use this metaphor now, but it's really

1186
00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:45,000
true that you know, you have to think of yourself

1187
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:47,480
in a new role now, and you know what, if

1188
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:49,719
your plumber is out sick, you got to pick up

1189
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:50,840
a torch and do the job.

1190
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: But in general, yeah, and you may even have a

1191
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,840
strength in trade, you know, lots of developers are using

1192
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,159
these tools and still writing pieces of the code they

1193
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,920
either want or write, or that they find that generators

1194
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,800
really struggle with. And so this is the part you

1195
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,679
got to write. Yep. But there's plenty of toil ish

1196
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:09,280
code you know, you need that the tools can make

1197
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,519
for you and one least thing you need to do,

1198
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:12,800
and you can keep moving forward.

1199
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:13,159
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1200
00:58:13,199 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: But I'll tell you what, from the people that I

1201
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:19,599
talked to, the demand for good software has never been higher.

1202
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,239
Speaker 2: No, no, this is the same effect as the post

1203
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,400
Loudite explosion in clothing demand, the expansion in travel, Like

1204
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,000
you can already see an expanding need for software. Yep,

1205
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:32,119
it's really true.

1206
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: So hang in there, kids, don't give up the fight

1207
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:36,360
and ais no excuse.

1208
00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 2: Just be the best you can be.

1209
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, it's been fun. It's been fun.

1210
00:58:41,519 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 2: You get the last word? What is it?

1211
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,639
Speaker 3: I really like what just Dean said. I think it

1212
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,719
was a build. She said something like let it help

1213
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,119
you amplify your productivity, you know what I mean, like like,

1214
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,719
let it get that stuff out of your way that

1215
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,320
you don't want to do, and also let it do

1216
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,199
the things that you know you need to get you

1217
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,400
need to get done. It can scale out and do

1218
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,840
seven or eight things all you do want. I love

1219
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,960
that general Contractor's cool and we.

1220
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: Have the benefit of the compiler as the fact checker, right.

1221
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:12,079
Speaker 3: Or if you need it to be like a musical thing,

1222
00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:13,119
you're the conductor.

1223
00:59:16,199 --> 00:59:18,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It's an orchestra and you're.

1224
00:59:18,719 --> 00:59:19,639
Speaker 3: The MIDI controller.

1225
00:59:21,159 --> 00:59:21,639
Speaker 2: I love it.

1226
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:28,199
Speaker 1: All the gen Z people are like, what's MIDI? What

1227
00:59:28,199 --> 00:59:32,920
are you talking about? Oh, Brady Gasser. It's been an

1228
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,159
absolute gas having you on the show and talking about

1229
00:59:35,159 --> 00:59:35,679
all these things.

1230
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you. That's been great, right,

1231
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,960
you bet, and we'll talk to you next time on

1232
00:59:42,239 --> 00:59:43,320
dot net rocks.

1233
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: Dot net Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net

1234
01:00:07,159 --> 01:00:11,079
and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video

1235
01:00:11,159 --> 01:00:15,159
and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut,

1236
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:19,679
and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.

1237
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,559
Visit our website at d O T N E, t

1238
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,840
R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,

1239
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:30,679
mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going

1240
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,159
back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand

1241
01:00:34,159 --> 01:00:36,800
and two, and make sure you check out our sponsors.

1242
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 2: They keep us in business. Now go write some code.

1243
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:41,079
See you next time.

1244
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:47,599
Speaker 1: You got javans at