Speaker 1: The separation of religion and government. It's a phrase you've
Speaker 1: heard a say at the start of basically every show
Speaker 1: we've run for years, But what does it really mean?
Speaker 1: As part of the mission statement of the ACA, and
Speaker 1: it represents our support of the establishment clause of the
Speaker 1: First Amendment of the United States, that not only should
Speaker 1: the law be protected from the overreach of religion, but
Speaker 1: religion itself be protected from the overreach of the government.
Speaker 1: And this is a concept that's so important that your
Speaker 1: forefathers fought a war of independence against mine to enshrine
Speaker 1: it into law. And now I am here among you.
Speaker 1: I live under the auspices of that document and will
Speaker 1: one day swear an oath to protect it. So while
Speaker 1: I may debate epistemology with a believer as to the
Speaker 1: reasons why they believe, if they hold that concept to
Speaker 1: be true, then I will stand priorly shoulder to shoulder
Speaker 1: with them in defense of people's right to believe what
Speaker 1: they wish without the interference of the law, and with
Speaker 1: the right of Christian nationalism in the halls of power.
Speaker 1: Make no mistake that the battle lines have been drawn,
Speaker 1: that it behooves those of us that care not only
Speaker 1: about the freedom from religion, but the freedom of religion
Speaker 1: to act decisively and be proactive. Less complaisance be our undoing.
Speaker 1: And if you believe in contrary to us, that God's
Speaker 1: law is sovereign over man, that we should live by
Speaker 1: scripture rather than reason, and that justice is the sole
Speaker 1: domain of the divine, then you should call us because
Speaker 1: the show starts now.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello everybody. It is January nineteenth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: I am objectively Dan. Joining me today is Jamie the
Speaker 2: Blind Libby and you're watching Talk Heathen. We are a
Speaker 2: five or one C three nonprofit organization. What's that not
Speaker 2: talk either the Atheist Community of Austin nonprofit organization dedicate
Speaker 2: to the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism, and
Speaker 2: the separation of religion and government. And of course, to
Speaker 2: Talk Heathen is in fact a live call in show
Speaker 2: created by the Atheist Comedy of Austin, which is live
Speaker 2: right now and has open lines, so you should definitely
Speaker 2: check that out if you want to talk to us,
Speaker 2: it's five one two nine nine one nine two four
Speaker 2: to two, or you can call to your heater a
Speaker 2: tiny dot cc slash call t H if you want
Speaker 2: to talk to us because we have some open lines
Speaker 2: right now. And another way to support the show, if
Speaker 2: you have it already, is by giving us super chats.
Speaker 2: If you get it in the in the chat, then
Speaker 2: we will you know, read some of those out loud
Speaker 2: as the show goes on. I don't think we have
Speaker 2: a super chat challenge for today, but we're always looking
Speaker 2: for new ideas for that. So if you guys have
Speaker 2: an idea for a super chant challenge, you know, give
Speaker 2: us a comic blow.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I've got one, you got one. I was
Speaker 1: challenged on the last show that I did to say
Speaker 1: the name of the longest city name this town name
Speaker 1: in Europe, and I messed it up. But I've learned
Speaker 1: it now, So if you put in ten super chats,
Speaker 1: then I might say it at the end of the show.
Speaker 1: If you're lucky, I.
Speaker 2: Think we're doing We're doing ten super chants of five
Speaker 2: dollars or more, five dollars more, we'll get done. How
Speaker 2: does that sound.
Speaker 1: Sounds good to me?
Speaker 2: Okay? Cool? So yeah, that's it. That's it. We're good.
Speaker 2: We are live or ready to go. Jamie the Blind
Speaker 2: Limey joining me today. What's up? Jbie?
Speaker 1: I am I found. I am Schroding as influencer. I
Speaker 1: am both cringe and based at the same time. And
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for the waveform function to collapse.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's how long were you sitting on that one?
Speaker 2: Because you definitely didn't just come up with that on
Speaker 2: the spade. That was that was too thought out.
Speaker 1: I prepare for these shows. I'm just sitting there, like,
Speaker 1: what weird thing can I say to put my co
Speaker 1: host off their game.
Speaker 2: That's a pretty weird thing to say. That's a pretty
Speaker 2: weird thing to say, I'll be honest, So you got me.
Speaker 2: Good job with that. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: talk right now because of the TikTok band that's currently happening.
Speaker 2: So my hope with that is that because TikTok isn't
Speaker 2: accessible to at least folks in the US that you know,
Speaker 2: they'll come watch our show instead because they got nothing
Speaker 2: better to do on a Sunday afternoon today, Right, So yeah,
Speaker 2: come on, come talk to us and let us know
Speaker 2: your thoughts on just you know, religion and the like.
Speaker 2: You've seen this show before, you know, we talked about
Speaker 2: you know, what's going on, So I do see that
Speaker 2: we at least have one caller that is almost ready
Speaker 2: to talk to us. Not quite, but we do have
Speaker 2: open lines, so you know, give us a call if
Speaker 2: you want to chant. Otherwise it's just going to be
Speaker 2: the Jamie and Dan shooting the shit show, which is
Speaker 2: its own separate could be podcast, but is it generally
Speaker 2: the point of talking in generally we talk about other stuff, right,
Speaker 2: So I don't know, what do you think?
Speaker 1: Well, basically as the cold open things like me, Angie,
Speaker 1: Me want talk people who are like all up in
Speaker 1: the whole God is better than the government kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Because I am afraid, I truly am afraid of what's
Speaker 1: going to happen over the next few years. And I
Speaker 1: mean it when I say I'm going to swear that
Speaker 1: oath I will become a citizen in the near future
Speaker 1: because I am tired of being a passenger on this
Speaker 1: train and having no say on when I get off,
Speaker 1: when I get on, what happens on it. I'm getting
Speaker 1: an appreciation for your for bears who said no taxation.
Speaker 2: With that representation, you're going to go against your your ancestry,
Speaker 2: You're going to go against.
Speaker 1: Your British I've chosen.
Speaker 2: I'm here worshiping ancestors.
Speaker 1: I'm here on purpose purpose. You can't get rid of me.
Speaker 1: You have to deport me. But she's actually far more
Speaker 1: likely than.
Speaker 2: All right, he said it to me, he said it
Speaker 2: on me. We have to deport him now. So that's
Speaker 2: that's what's going on happen, I think. But anyway, eight folks,
Speaker 2: we do have a segment that happens every week on
Speaker 2: Talkith and it is called Talk Heathen to Me, and
Speaker 2: it is where we get to ask you guys a
Speaker 2: question or a prompt and then we read some of
Speaker 2: the best answers from that. Last week, we asked you
Speaker 2: sin is to God as what is to what? And
Speaker 2: here were our top three answers for that. Number three
Speaker 2: comes from Mount Taylor Paul. I'm assume it's Mount It
Speaker 2: could be Empty Taylor Paul, but I like Mount Taylor Paul's.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with that. Who says sin is to
Speaker 2: God as raisins are to raisin bread. They're baked in
Speaker 2: heart of the recipe, They're meant to be there. Raisins
Speaker 2: are good, thanks j Mike. And you know what I
Speaker 2: do like raisin bread and I do like raisin cookies.
Speaker 2: I know a lot of people aren't about that.
Speaker 1: Life on oatmeal raisin better than the chip, and I.
Speaker 2: Will do you like it better than childish?
Speaker 1: I will done on that hill anyway.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Well, you know you can find about
Speaker 2: that in the comments. I suppose to see if we're
Speaker 2: wrong about that, But I don't know if i'd say
Speaker 2: it's better, I'd say it's good, though I do like it.
Speaker 2: Number two comes from house Bells, who said sin is
Speaker 2: to God as CrossFit is to brow dudes. And I
Speaker 2: don't know, there's a lot, you know, I don't know
Speaker 2: how I feel about that because CrossFit isn't It's not
Speaker 2: just a bro dude thing. I think you see a
Speaker 2: lot of people across the gender spectrum comitt it's a CrossFit.
Speaker 2: It's always just the most annoying people, you know. I
Speaker 2: think that's the common denominator.
Speaker 1: I have opinions on CrossFit, but I won't share them
Speaker 1: because rich coming from someone who looks like a clear
Speaker 1: plastic bag full of vanilla pudding. So I'll keep my
Speaker 1: moving to myself.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a free country. You can say what
Speaker 2: you want, unless it's on TikTok, right, So you know,
Speaker 2: just do what you want with that. Number one this
Speaker 2: week comes from Life Crowther, who says sin is to
Speaker 2: God as lightning rods are to Benjamin Franklin. That might
Speaker 2: be Leath Crowther actually, but I don't know. But yeah,
Speaker 2: sin is to God as lightning rods are to Benjamin Franklin.
Speaker 2: Was that a myth? Is that one of those things
Speaker 2: that you hear about well later was totally BS?
Speaker 1: I would say so, because the whole like I held
Speaker 1: a key up in a light, put on a kite,
Speaker 1: like if he got show, he'd be very, very very dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's gotta be not real that you always
Speaker 2: hear these stuff about the not presidents, because Benjamin Franklin
Speaker 2: was a president, but like you know, founding Fathers, about
Speaker 2: all these cool shit that you did, and then you
Speaker 2: hear you you know, realize like half of it is BS.
Speaker 1: They down the cherry tree, and yeah, topically it's the
Speaker 1: whole thing, Like was Jesus real? Maybe? Did he come
Speaker 1: back from the dead? Probably not. You know, It's like
Speaker 1: was was George Washington real? Probably?
Speaker 2: You know, it's true about Benjamin Franklin though he was
Speaker 2: into mills.
Speaker 1: You French Mills specifically, he was super into that, which
Speaker 1: I respected.
Speaker 2: You know, he like wrote he was doing the red
Speaker 2: Pill stuff like like giving advice to people about how
Speaker 2: to date when. But it was exclusively for cougars. It
Speaker 2: wasn't for like any other, you know, kind of person.
Speaker 1: So you know, outside his spaghetti was buttered.
Speaker 2: Yes, shout out to Benny Frank. You think I think
Speaker 2: you think that Benfamin frankl was around today. You think
Speaker 2: he'd be like an Elon Musk type or do you
Speaker 2: think he'd be like a like a red Pill.
Speaker 1: I think he's a bit more sort of enlightened than that.
Speaker 1: But he'd definitely go on the Joe Rogan podcast and
Speaker 1: joke Oh dude, yeah, yes, that's all he does.
Speaker 2: Benny Frank, Benny Frank on Joe Rogan. I can see it,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, wow, such times, such times we live
Speaker 2: and anyway, let me let me check, let me check.
Speaker 2: We do have some people that want to talk to us,
Speaker 2: and we should probably talk to them, don't you think?
Speaker 2: I mean this is a call in show, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think before I do that, though, I should give
Speaker 2: the prompt for next week, because I almost didn't do
Speaker 2: that and the problem for this next week, if you
Speaker 2: want to participate and have your comment read out loud,
Speaker 2: is if the New Testament were a comedy, how would
Speaker 2: it have ended? So leave your best answers below. If
Speaker 2: the New Testament were comedy, how would it have ended?
Speaker 2: What do you think? Jamie, do you have an answer
Speaker 2: for this one?
Speaker 1: Well, since my favorite version of the Bible is the
Speaker 1: King James and that was brought out at the same
Speaker 1: time as the Bard, then it would end with a wedding.
Speaker 1: That's a literary joke.
Speaker 2: I don't know that I got that, do I know?
Speaker 2: Am I just dumb? Do I not understand Shakespeare?
Speaker 1: Shakespeare comedies always end with a wedding?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'm sorry. I'm not as culture as
Speaker 2: you are.
Speaker 1: Stunting on you, danm styling on you.
Speaker 2: I was so busy thinking about the hypothetical Benjamin Franklin
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan podcast. I think I think it was a
Speaker 2: little distracted with that. But anyway, we also have a
Speaker 2: super chat that I should read out from Miranda Rensberger.
Speaker 2: Give him ten dollars who said I would watch the
Speaker 2: Jamie and Dan Shooting the Ship podcast? Hey, there it
Speaker 2: is folks. There's not enough podcasts in the world. We
Speaker 2: have to make more of them.
Speaker 1: Not enough. Yeah, dude's doing podcasts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a new market. No one's ever done that before.
Speaker 2: I mean, geez, I'm very self conscious about that.
Speaker 3: By the way.
Speaker 2: When I whenever I tell people, well, what do you
Speaker 2: do with your free time, it's like, well, I do
Speaker 2: I do podcasts? You know? It's like I don't. It's
Speaker 2: not something I take a lot of pride in. It's
Speaker 2: more like an embarrassing secret that people find out about me,
Speaker 2: because it's like, you know, you don't want to be
Speaker 2: I don't want to be that guy. There's such variance
Speaker 2: in quality in that, you.
Speaker 1: Know, but you know you're not fresh and fit, and
Speaker 1: that's the point. That's right.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of I don't know, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of people out there who are
Speaker 2: making content that, in my opinion, should not be making content.
Speaker 2: So but that's just me. I'm a hater, right, So
Speaker 2: what can you do about that? But anyway, I think
Speaker 2: now is the time we dial it in and talk
Speaker 2: to some people. We got a couple of people who
Speaker 2: want to talk to us, and I think we can
Speaker 2: start you want to go more topical, let's do I
Speaker 2: guess a topical one. I'm not sure how much this
Speaker 2: directly relates to talk to he than other than the
Speaker 2: fact that I don't know. We do talk about freedom
Speaker 2: of speech a lot. But here's Dave calling in from California.
Speaker 2: Wants to talk to us a bit more about the
Speaker 2: TikTok band. Dave, you are live on talk Heathen. What's up?
Speaker 4: Hey? Thanks for having me today.
Speaker 5: I heard you were short on collars, so I figured
Speaker 5: i'd give you guys a phone.
Speaker 2: Hey, Jamie, nice to talk to you again.
Speaker 5: No, you know me. How you doing today?
Speaker 1: Fine? I have I have learned to recover from a
Speaker 1: compressor stall in the fourteen and so I'm quite good anyway.
Speaker 1: What's on your money, ma'am?
Speaker 5: It sounds like you really need my h you really
Speaker 5: need that the thing the dial thing that that that
Speaker 5: my uncle. I don't even know what the fuck it's called,
Speaker 5: but my uncle said he wanted to wanted me to
Speaker 5: send it to you, and I got to get it.
Speaker 2: In the mail.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 5: Also found out another thing I have in common with you.
Speaker 5: Love outmeal raising over chocolate chip.
Speaker 2: All right, that's another one for the raising over chocolate chip.
Speaker 2: This is a very this is a very segmented bias
Speaker 2: population here, because I truly think if you asked most people,
Speaker 2: they would go the other way. You know what you like,
Speaker 2: what you like, and that's love, baby, So you know,
Speaker 2: so all right, Dave, what you got retarding the TikTok.
Speaker 5: Regarding the TikTok ban, I feel like it is more
Speaker 5: of a political power play than anything else, especially considering well, yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean because they had the vote in Congress, but uh,
Speaker 5: it wasn't that Congress. It was enforcing any kind of ban.
Speaker 5: TikTok specifically said we're going to go dark on Sunday
Speaker 5: unless Biden assures gives gives them some kind of assurance
Speaker 5: that he's not going to enforce it. And I don't
Speaker 5: know if you heard, but right now as we're speaking,
Speaker 5: the ban is in the process of being lifted because
Speaker 5: Biden announced that he's going to let the next administration
Speaker 5: deal with it. So again, it was it was all
Speaker 5: just a power play. It's all just a fucking move
Speaker 5: to to just just they were just trying to show
Speaker 5: the government that they were making an unpopular decision because
Speaker 5: the populace does.
Speaker 4: Not like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the thing is is that I very much
Speaker 1: am opposed to the TikTok ban I post on there,
Speaker 1: and I'm an opponent of it now. Of course, like
Speaker 1: all social media, it's a corporate entity, and like we
Speaker 1: can't lionize them too much, you know. But my experience
Speaker 1: on TikTok has actually been quite relevant to my work
Speaker 1: here with the ACA, because a lot of the things
Speaker 1: that I have been experiencing are live broadcasts of Christians
Speaker 1: and Muslims trying to do debates. Maybe that's just my algorithm,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people on there are religious. A
Speaker 1: lot of people on there are trying to engage with
Speaker 1: the public on things, and I would defend that, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to put people down who want to
Speaker 1: try and share their beliefs on this thing. I'm happy
Speaker 1: for them. It also gives me. It gave me and
Speaker 1: hopefully willing the future, gave me a vector to engage
Speaker 1: each and to try and you know, come at it
Speaker 1: from the other side. Because of course I'm here in
Speaker 1: the show kind of in a position of power almost,
Speaker 1: like people call into us and we can put the
Speaker 1: phone down on them and it's our show. I like
Speaker 1: the dynamic where I am calling into them and I
Speaker 1: have to defer to them because that's the kind of
Speaker 1: dynamic that forces you to be careful with your words.
Speaker 1: So I'm hoping that TikTok does stay so I can
Speaker 1: continue to engage with religious people in that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm up two minds about this because of one,
Speaker 2: go ahead, Dave.
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, by all means I I was just saying,
Speaker 5: I agree.
Speaker 1: That's literally all I was saying, gotcha.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah. So like, I'm up two minds of this
Speaker 2: because on the one hand, TikTok is an absolute hellhole
Speaker 2: of misinformation, of dangerous stuff that has definitely gotten people
Speaker 2: the wrong idea about literally everything. But on the other hand,
Speaker 2: I don't like, you know, like it is. Rather here
Speaker 2: have I'm circling. Here's how I'm making this this square
Speaker 2: circle and making this part of talk. He either okay, talk.
Speaker 2: TikTok is one of the mediums by which the atheist
Speaker 2: community of Austin gets its message out there. Right, we
Speaker 2: have to compete in the marketplace of ideas just like
Speaker 2: everybody else, right, and taking that medium away takes away
Speaker 2: a very specific demographic not me. I don't really go
Speaker 2: on TikTok, But there's a billion other people that go
Speaker 2: on TikTok. And Richard, our show producer, is doing lives
Speaker 2: even today before the show on TikTok, like he does
Speaker 2: every single Sunday, because that entices people to watch and
Speaker 2: get involved and be a part of the conversation. So
Speaker 2: like this sort of top down approach, you know, the
Speaker 2: ideas that it's oh, it's for security is absolute, you know, bullshit,
Speaker 2: because I've been to Europe, okay, and when you go
Speaker 2: to Europe and you log into any website ever, they
Speaker 2: ask you all the things that they can take your
Speaker 2: information for because they actually have regulations for that shit here, Okay,
Speaker 2: we don't have any of that kind of stuff in
Speaker 2: the US. So it's it's never been about that. It's
Speaker 2: always in a little bit more of a scare tactic,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, for Chinese influence and stuff in
Speaker 2: the US, there's a lot more of that than than
Speaker 2: a lot of the reasons that go out there. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's very silly. We'll see what happens
Speaker 2: with it, but yeah, I don't know. Somebody's going to
Speaker 2: get accolades for this, and it's not going to be
Speaker 2: the people we like.
Speaker 1: I think that's the thing that kind of annoys I.
Speaker 2: Was also sorry.
Speaker 5: I was also talking with a listen promised the other
Speaker 5: day on this one on joot Gum because the conversation
Speaker 5: about pornhub got brought up and that porn hub is
Speaker 5: banned in Florida. But I was trying to add a
Speaker 5: little bit of corrective information there. It's not that porn
Speaker 5: hub was banned in Florida. Porn Hub pulled out of
Speaker 5: Florida unintended. Ronda Santis just signed bill into law requiring
Speaker 5: porn distributors to verify age via having users upload their
Speaker 5: driver's license and requiring distributors to track that data, and
Speaker 5: Pornhub said, no, we will not track user data this
Speaker 5: way you can go without porn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for good reason. I mean, server side verification
Speaker 1: tools of that nature are building a database of people's
Speaker 1: personal information and driver's licenses is just an invitation tackers.
Speaker 1: Porn Hub and sites like it that are making a
Speaker 1: stand on this are in the right in my opinion,
Speaker 1: because user side age verification is what should be being
Speaker 1: done from an Internet security standpoint, and again it's the
Speaker 1: puritanical overreach is the saber rattling, It's the whole, like
Speaker 1: wagging the finger. And again this is why, again to
Speaker 1: reference the cold open, this is what I'm fearing from
Speaker 1: the encroachment of Christian gin specifically, but religious in general
Speaker 1: elements into the way that our lives are being dictated
Speaker 1: by law. And like, i feel like I live in Mordor,
Speaker 1: Like I'm four miles away from the Capitol building of Texas,
Speaker 1: the reddest spot on the map, and I'm like, we
Speaker 1: should do something about it. So I'm hoping that through
Speaker 1: our work here we can have some kind of impact
Speaker 1: to get like the puritanical, the dogmatic out of the
Speaker 1: law and bring reason back in so we can make
Speaker 1: proper decisions on things like privacy and security.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you haven't been living in this country long enough.
Speaker 2: If you think that's going.
Speaker 1: To happen, allow me to have a tiny shred of
Speaker 1: that's just a tiny shred.
Speaker 5: I did, though, think that this was a great highlight
Speaker 5: of the hypocrisy of these same puritanical law makers, because
Speaker 5: the same people who are rattling their sabers against this
Speaker 5: the TikTok and how China might be collecting our data
Speaker 5: are trying to enforce our own companies to collect data,
Speaker 5: so they care about who collects data as long as
Speaker 5: it's them.
Speaker 2: Yes, you know that that's part of it. I mean,
Speaker 2: like the the whole hypocrisy stuff. Nobody cares about that anymore.
Speaker 2: That's the problem. Nobody cares. Everybody's ay procrit everybody's doing
Speaker 2: dumb stuff. Like the bad part about this is that
Speaker 2: people are going to see this band and they're not
Speaker 2: even going to know who to blame. They are. They're
Speaker 2: already shifting you know, uh, recently on the TikTok app,
Speaker 2: they already changed the message talking about how the president
Speaker 2: elect Trump is going to you know, try to fix
Speaker 2: things or whatever they put that messaging on there. Right,
Speaker 2: I'm just reporting what they're talking about here. That's not
Speaker 2: even you know, that's that's a narrative within itself that's
Speaker 2: already going to be pushed out there, regardless of it's
Speaker 2: truth value, right, Like, it doesn't matter. We're not a
Speaker 2: country that does research. Yeah, we're not a country that
Speaker 2: is going to figure out the truth of things or
Speaker 2: recent things out and figure out who's doing what. We're
Speaker 2: just going to see the headlines and that's it. That's
Speaker 2: how most people are, at least half of people make
Speaker 2: their decisions around here, and that's the reality that we
Speaker 2: live in until something is done about that, which is
Speaker 2: a sad prospect, but I just think is the truth
Speaker 2: that we live in right now. So I don't know
Speaker 2: what to do about that. I don't think. I don't
Speaker 2: think we can be the saviors of that. Unfortunately, we
Speaker 2: can do what we can. But well, you guys really
Speaker 2: talk about it and bitch about it on podcasts.
Speaker 1: I guess that's what we do with we can. But like,
Speaker 1: if anything overtly really just does come up in legislation,
Speaker 1: which I anticipate it will, that's when we can step in.
Speaker 1: I mean, the ACA has a specific mission and a
Speaker 1: specific remit and an abounding box in which we can operate.
Speaker 1: But within that I think that it behooves us again
Speaker 1: to be proactive. If if it's over, we're gonna start
Speaker 1: putting God's law into your law. And that's why you
Speaker 1: can't look at boobs or whatever. That's something we can
Speaker 1: fight against. That's something we can stand up against, and
Speaker 1: that's a frivolous concept. But we are looking at people
Speaker 1: justifying the degradation and denigration of marginalized people LGBT and
Speaker 1: trans community and atheists and other religious communities because book
Speaker 1: says so, because God says so, and that's where we
Speaker 1: can be a bullwark against that. And I'm hoping, I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that it doesn't happen, that we don't have to,
Speaker 1: but if it does, I'm happy to step in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we'll keep it volt.
Speaker 5: In two thousand and three, I voted for Larry Flint
Speaker 5: in two thousand and three. I thought he had the
Speaker 5: best ideas for the First Amendment at the time, but
Speaker 5: I was nineteen, so I had other reasons for for
Speaker 5: for liking Hustler at the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, let's just say, I don't know. People have
Speaker 2: made worse decisions than nineteen maybe so you know.
Speaker 1: Every day, but I think.
Speaker 2: That's all the time that we got for you today.
Speaker 2: Any any any last words you want to add before
Speaker 2: we let you go today.
Speaker 4: Uh? Nah, it was a great call.
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me, and I hope you guys have
Speaker 5: a great rest of your show.
Speaker 2: Great, thanks so much, Dave, appreciate you calling in. And yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, it is the reality we live in. We
Speaker 2: have to navigate our political conversations very carefully because we
Speaker 2: are a product of if I have a one C
Speaker 2: three nonprofit organization, so you know we are polity is
Speaker 2: already limited.
Speaker 1: We're politically neutral, we don't we don't approve of or
Speaker 1: denigrate any particular party or person, but we do have
Speaker 1: opinions on standpoints, especially as it comes to when religion
Speaker 1: gets involved. And that's where I'm going to be pointing
Speaker 1: my site if it happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, TikTok is the reason why people are
Speaker 2: a Christian, TikTok is the reason why some people became atheists.
Speaker 2: It's a big mover in shaper in regards to people's
Speaker 2: personal beliefs, not just religious obviously, but political and otherwise.
Speaker 2: So that censorship that taken away of that is it
Speaker 2: is a big deal. It does affect us. So I'm
Speaker 2: glad we could talk about it, but it does make
Speaker 2: me feel very powerless talking about these things.
Speaker 1: It kind of make you feel quite impotent when we
Speaker 1: scream as one thousands, thousands and thousands of voices all
Speaker 1: united and are completely ignored.
Speaker 2: Well, but you know what, I do have the power
Speaker 2: to do, James, What's that It's picked the next call
Speaker 2: that we should talk to but before we do that,
Speaker 2: we should actually read a couple of super chants that
Speaker 2: also came in in between that time, one from Herbie Schein,
Speaker 2: who gave five pounds and said, I love, yes, love,
Speaker 2: Jamie's sense of humor, always so funny, silly and clever,
Speaker 2: always makes me laugh at unexpected moments. What a nice
Speaker 2: comment you got there.
Speaker 1: Very nice. I agree with one of those three. I
Speaker 1: am very silly.
Speaker 2: We got another one, a dollar ninety nine from Jonathan Franz,
Speaker 2: who said, I love Jamie's sense of humor even more so.
Speaker 2: You know, Jamie, You've got a lot of positivity going
Speaker 2: your way. Yeah, a lot of pressure you Okay, don't
Speaker 2: fuck up now, all right? You understand you got to
Speaker 2: keep me in funny, all right, or you're that's it,
Speaker 2: You're ound.
Speaker 1: I reserve the right to completely flame out and freak out.
Speaker 1: Maybe will happen.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well if you say so. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: being said, before I keep going as well, I should probably,
Speaker 2: you know, talk to you guys a little bit about
Speaker 2: some of the other stuff that we got going on
Speaker 2: here as well. If you want to help the show
Speaker 2: in the many different ways that you can help us.
Speaker 2: One of it is through taking in flyers. Yeah, flyers.
Speaker 2: You know, that's the thing that people still look at sometimes.
Speaker 2: If you want to post any flyers in your community
Speaker 2: with that community's permission, of course, if you go to
Speaker 2: Chinese dot cc slash ACA flyers, we do have printable
Speaker 2: flyers to get more people to call them to the
Speaker 2: show and defend their faith. You know, come talk to
Speaker 2: us about it. Make us Christians? Why not? Let's do it.
Speaker 2: And if you do post any flyers, be sure to
Speaker 2: snap a picture of it and send it to TV
Speaker 2: at Atheistizing Community dot org and we can feature some
Speaker 2: of that in you know, an upcoming show. So do
Speaker 2: that if you want to get more callers in, especially
Speaker 2: more interesting callers. Right, so interesting calls, I should say,
Speaker 2: all of our callers are interesting. Okay, let's make that clear.
Speaker 2: We always have the we always have the best calls. Okay,
Speaker 2: now I'm not gonna do that, but no, I do that.
Speaker 1: That frame make us Christian does. Like one of the
Speaker 1: things about religious people that I am insanely jealous about
Speaker 1: is that the fact that they can think it's all
Speaker 1: part of the plan, like God has a plan for us,
Speaker 1: like even through the worst of times, it's for a reason,
Speaker 1: and I can't bring myself to believe that, but I
Speaker 1: wish I could sometimes.
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, no, I that's the thing, like, if God's real,
Speaker 2: at least at least I want to know about it, right,
Speaker 2: so you know, why not try to convince me of that?
Speaker 2: But also real quickly, I should say, we have merch
Speaker 2: if you want to support that as well, T shirts, hoodies,
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Speaker 2: it's not too late to send that Christmas gift to
Speaker 2: the person you forgot about if you want to, you know,
Speaker 2: make it up to them some way. Talk Heith and Merch.
Speaker 2: Great way to do it. Last but not least, Just
Speaker 2: a reminder for folks to like and subscribe and do
Speaker 2: all the fun stuff that YouTuber's tell you to do
Speaker 2: because it does help us out in the engagement and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, getting our word out there, getting getting the
Speaker 2: good word out there, I'd say, right. But anyway, with
Speaker 2: that being said, let's talk to our next caller. We
Speaker 2: have Danny, who wants to talk to us from Virginia. Danny,
Speaker 2: you are alive on talk Heathan, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Not the much man?
Speaker 6: You know, just just calling in, guys, got a pressing
Speaker 6: question for you. I just wanted to know what's so
Speaker 6: bad about God? You know, I've been watching you guys
Speaker 6: show for a while and you guys seem to have
Speaker 6: a very strange attitude towards the Lord. And now was
Speaker 6: just wondering why.
Speaker 2: I think somebody who would you have it if somebody
Speaker 2: killed thousands of people on their own whim would you
Speaker 2: be would you find it strange if somebody said that
Speaker 2: was you know, odd or weird or wondering why that
Speaker 2: should be? Because I don't think so. I think if
Speaker 2: somebody killed a bunch of people, you should question that
Speaker 2: person's character. You should probably say, hey, you know, maybe
Speaker 2: this isn't something that we should look towards or worship towards.
Speaker 2: But that seems to be what Christians do. And God is,
Speaker 2: you know, not only responsible for the death of not tens,
Speaker 2: not hundreds, but thousands of people and if you add
Speaker 2: it up right, potentially millions. So that's one thing, right,
Speaker 2: of course, I don't actually believe God is real, right,
Speaker 2: that would be if he was real. But you know,
Speaker 2: the main problem of course we have as atheists is
Speaker 2: that we don't have a lot of reasons to, you know,
Speaker 2: believe that he's real in the first place. And if
Speaker 2: he was real, then he'd probably be a moral monster.
Speaker 2: He probably would be somebody that we wouldn't want to
Speaker 2: be on the same side with. Anyway. He seems to
Speaker 2: make decisions that would be morally questionable to a lot
Speaker 2: of people, such as myself and other non believers. So
Speaker 2: what reason it's not to like God? There? What do
Speaker 2: you think?
Speaker 6: So that argument is completely absurd, and I'll tell you
Speaker 6: why in a second. So you have to understand that
Speaker 6: even though he God, or you're saying he killed thousands
Speaker 6: of people with there's just there's just no evidence for that.
Speaker 6: But if he did, he also gave birth to billions
Speaker 6: of people. So if we're talking about somebody.
Speaker 2: That gives birth is okay with killing other people, then
Speaker 2: if I if I give birth to billions of people,
Speaker 2: it's okay if I kill other people.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's a couple of thousands here and there? I mean,
Speaker 6: if you're actually like actually like growing human beings and
Speaker 6: making more human beings, than.
Speaker 2: He has a couple of thousand here and there.
Speaker 1: If you please, what's a couple?
Speaker 2: What's killing a couple thousand people here and there?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 2: You're making more people every end? Yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
Speaker 2: I I just think that's absurd, right, And the evidence
Speaker 2: for God killing people, by the way, he is in
Speaker 2: the Bible, right, Like, if you're a Christian anyway, that's
Speaker 2: who God is, And if you believe the words of
Speaker 2: the Bible, then God has killed people. That's not even
Speaker 2: a contestable fact really, like that's just already present. But no,
Speaker 2: I think that logic is absurd. I think if you
Speaker 2: value human beings and if you think killing people is
Speaker 2: generally wrong, I don't see how giving birth or creating
Speaker 2: more people justifies you killing people. That doesn't really make sense.
Speaker 6: I mean it's in that positive though, That's like billions
Speaker 6: over thousands of people is.
Speaker 1: In that positive. So, Danny, Danny, are you a believer?
Speaker 1: Are you a theist? Do you believe in a God
Speaker 1: at least? Okay? Cool?
Speaker 6: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So to us, God is a fictional character. But the
Speaker 1: importance of God is that people believe that he's real,
Speaker 1: and their beliefs inform their actions and The thing is
Speaker 1: is that the character of God is portrayed in the
Speaker 1: Bible and also the Quran and many other scriptures, is
Speaker 1: a morally reprehensible being, precocious, jealous, rage for pride, for inconsistent,
Speaker 1: and to modern believers, he's an absentee father. He came in,
Speaker 1: did some shit, and fucked off, and we don't know
Speaker 1: where he is anymore. The problem of divine hiddenness is
Speaker 1: always with us. And so when people justify their own bigotry, hatred,
Speaker 1: violence because God said so, and they do now and
Speaker 1: in the history we do not countenance it. There are
Speaker 1: so many things that have happened because God said so,
Speaker 1: But it's just an excuse for the worst parts of
Speaker 1: humanity to come out. The battlefields of the history are
Speaker 1: littered with the bodies of young men who thought God
Speaker 1: on their side. So why should we give any reverence
Speaker 1: to this concept that is God when it's been you
Speaker 1: to do pinous things for thousands of years.
Speaker 6: Saying so, what we're trying to say is that God
Speaker 6: is simply causing war without reason? Is this correct?
Speaker 1: I'm saying that.
Speaker 2: Not God causing war. People believing in God, well, I
Speaker 2: often do things in act because of their God, believe
Speaker 2: that God is on their side in any conflict.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, God can no more cause wars than Optimus Prime
Speaker 1: can because they're both fictional characters as far as I
Speaker 1: can see.
Speaker 8: Well, that's not true.
Speaker 1: Okay, evidence please.
Speaker 6: Evidence for God not being for God being true.
Speaker 1: For God being real? Yeah please?
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, okay, I'll give you this. So if you
Speaker 6: go for three days, and I guarantee you haven't done
Speaker 6: this before, if you go for three days, you get
Speaker 6: down on your knees and pray, God will reveal himself
Speaker 6: to you. Done it to me, He's done it for
Speaker 6: other callless theists. Have you actually gone for three days
Speaker 6: on a retreat and in your humunity in your final
Speaker 6: hour of the three days, has God revealed himself to you?
Speaker 6: Can you answer that?
Speaker 1: Please?
Speaker 2: Been a Christian for more than half of my life,
Speaker 2: and I used to serve in ministry where I would
Speaker 2: work at church camps, for example, and spend entire summers
Speaker 2: literally worshiping God five days out of the week and
Speaker 2: praying every single day in not just with myself, but
Speaker 2: in accordance with other Christians. And God has never shown
Speaker 2: me any definitive signs of his existence.
Speaker 6: It just sounds like, you know, you weren't really devoted
Speaker 6: to the faith.
Speaker 2: Ah, there it is, there it is. I wasn't a
Speaker 2: good enough Christian. And that seems to be the case
Speaker 2: for every single person who's ever left Christianity. Isn't it
Speaker 2: that they're just not good enough Christians? They just haven't
Speaker 2: prayed hard enough, or they haven't just done the right things. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: this isn't an issue just with Christianity. Muslims also make
Speaker 2: the same excuse for people who leave Islam. Mormons do
Speaker 2: the same thing. Right. Scientologists even have a version of
Speaker 2: this where they don't you believe in stuff hard enough?
Speaker 2: I mean, this is just an excuse rather than actually
Speaker 2: showing definitive proof. Because if God was real, I think
Speaker 2: that would be universal. I think that would be an
Speaker 2: experience that would be accessible to anybody. It's not like
Speaker 2: Jesus was walking around invisible to some people who wasn't
Speaker 2: believing it him right, Like, allegedly he was a real
Speaker 2: person that walked around and did the stuff that he done.
Speaker 2: I don't see why why God couldn't do the same thing.
Speaker 2: Why is he only accessible to those who have to
Speaker 2: pray for him? For three days straight, rather than just
Speaker 2: make himself known. It doesn't make sense to be And
Speaker 2: here's why, it's because he's probably not real. I think
Speaker 2: it's a figment of people's imaginations. I think it's a
Speaker 2: figment of people's devotion to something and wanting to believe
Speaker 2: in something greater than themselves. And you know, I think
Speaker 2: that's just the reality we live in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you think that's called special pleading. You're just you're
Speaker 6: specially pleading here. I hate to break it to you,
Speaker 6: but what do you mean?
Speaker 1: What what? We're not special bleeding? That's the purview of
Speaker 1: the religious, The whole the universe must have a start.
Speaker 1: But God doesn't have a start that coming.
Speaker 2: He literally gave you an example of my devotion. And
Speaker 2: rather than accepting it as oh, maybe this is counter
Speaker 2: evidence to anything I've ever claimed here, you're just saying, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you didn't do it right, you didn't do it hard enough.
Speaker 2: And the fact is, like, I'm not the only person
Speaker 2: who's ever claimed to have ever been a Christian either.
Speaker 1: How many how many people have died in with God's
Speaker 1: name on their lips, praying, crying out for relief. How
Speaker 1: many parents wishing that their child wasn't sick bringing up prayers.
Speaker 1: But nah, God's just gonna let them die of that
Speaker 1: glioblastema because it's all part of the plan in it,
Speaker 1: it's all God's will, because it's all very convenient. If
Speaker 1: you pray and you don't get an answer, it's because
Speaker 1: you didn't believe hard enough, or there's a reason for
Speaker 1: it or mysterious ways. Never an explanation, never an actual reason,
Speaker 1: just you weren't good enough and we don't accept that.
Speaker 1: And if God is real and that's how he operates,
Speaker 1: that he hears the cries of the faithful and ignores
Speaker 1: them for some grand plan, then I will walk backwards
Speaker 1: into hell with both of my middle fingers up, knowing
Speaker 1: that my sins are far less than his.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you think you're so araorful, you know, you
Speaker 6: think you're so cool walking backwards, you think, But in reality,
Speaker 6: the tree you're just putting in hell, it's not gonna
Speaker 6: be worth it. Give you two seconds and they'd be like,
Speaker 6: oh my God, please please let me come back. Please, Like,
Speaker 6: let's be honest here, and no one's gonna be happy
Speaker 6: in hell knowing that they're better than God. All right,
Speaker 6: that's absurd, completely absurd. Come on, you're're honest here, we're
Speaker 6: talking about it, eternal torture, and you're gonna be happy
Speaker 6: being there knowing that you're better than my God?
Speaker 4: Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: So? Is this where we're laying at that? Oh? No,
Speaker 2: you're not really gonna be happy. We're in hell instead
Speaker 2: of the whole like whether God is even real thing?
Speaker 1: Going there anyway, I can't stop it, Like if I
Speaker 1: don't believe in God, I go there, so I may
Speaker 1: as well make the best of it as I can.
Speaker 6: You're gonna make the best of it. You're gonna make
Speaker 6: the best of having your toenails ripped off at every
Speaker 6: moment in aching pain. Bro. Yeah, of course, Yeah, you're
Speaker 6: so dishonest. It's just sad, honestly, honestly, just quite sad.
Speaker 1: Wow, the condescension is strung with this one.
Speaker 2: So do you are you gonna show us why we
Speaker 2: should believe in God or.
Speaker 1: We'll believe the hell is actually real? I mean that
Speaker 1: you can no more threaten me with Hell than with
Speaker 1: the flipping shadow realm, Like it's a it's a fake place.
Speaker 1: It's in the imaginary place. And also which hell I mean,
Speaker 1: are you certain that your god's the real one, because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of options out there.
Speaker 6: Well, I believe. I believe in the in the nine
Speaker 6: Layers of Hell. I believe in Dante's Inferno interpretation of Hell.
Speaker 6: I believe that you go from limbo to like the
Speaker 6: nice eight years or whatever, which aren't you guys, by
Speaker 6: the way, and then you go to lower down a
Speaker 6: little round.
Speaker 1: I think this guy's trong. It's a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dante's Inferno is a story. It's not scripturally accurate. It's
Speaker 1: actually basically a roast of certain popes and the like.
Speaker 1: So if Dante's Inferno is your idea of Hell, then
Speaker 1: my idea of Hell is I don't know robot Hell
Speaker 1: from future Ama, because they're both as fictional as each other.
Speaker 6: I do believe that, But that's besides the point. That's
Speaker 6: a whole other argument.
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, why do you believe we
Speaker 1: don't know? Please tell us what what scriptural evidence is
Speaker 1: there that Dante's infer which is our story. It's a
Speaker 1: it's the story book. It's actually fan fiction, like I'm
Speaker 1: going to go through Hell with my favorite poet from
Speaker 1: Greek history inspired and you're gonna have to give us
Speaker 1: some evidence of that, chief, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2: I I honestly no, no, let's I'm gonna cut to
Speaker 2: the chase. I think you're a troll. I don't think
Speaker 2: you're a real person. If you want to be sincere
Speaker 2: in your beliefs, you have thirty seconds to prove that
Speaker 2: to me or less. Otherwise I'm just going to drop
Speaker 2: the call. Now.
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, so you see don is infernal? Was ah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, it's not even real. All right? Well, by.
Speaker 1: If you silly, if you can give us something better
Speaker 1: than that, and you can try and call us back,
Speaker 1: But otherwise we'll just.
Speaker 2: Keep brand standing and just talking about how we'll stick
Speaker 2: our middle fingers up and walking backwards in the hell,
Speaker 2: you know every time. I guess I don't know, this
Speaker 2: is silly. What do you do with that? What do
Speaker 2: you do with that? Jamie?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean that I have noticed that
Speaker 1: there is an uptick in trolling callers to shows, our
Speaker 1: shows and shows like them, And I think it's just
Speaker 1: because after all this time, the believers that know that
Speaker 1: they are only working on their own personal revelation and
Speaker 1: have no evidence to give us. I'm just afraid to
Speaker 1: call in because they know they're just going to be
Speaker 1: asked for something that they can't give. And the only
Speaker 1: ones that are left of the people who want to
Speaker 1: just have a bit of screen time and pocus and go. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's disappointing the lowering of the caliber of interlocutors that
Speaker 1: we are working with now. And it would be a
Speaker 1: shame if shows like ours became less necessary, not because
Speaker 1: we'd solved any problems, is just because everyone else is
Speaker 1: either too chicken shit too silly to actually have a
Speaker 1: decent conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Probably, So it's a real shame. But I want
Speaker 2: you to talk to you. Are no next callers here,
Speaker 2: so let's uh, let's hopefully get a real call here.
Speaker 2: We have one from Steve who's calling in from Nebraska,
Speaker 2: and I hope Steve is being sincere here here in there.
Speaker 2: Believe Steve, you're alive on talky then, can you hear us?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Happy MLK weekend everyone, Hi Dan and Jamie for
Speaker 4: allowing me this calls to present the trees and craters
Speaker 4: of evidence justsing a mile high. The Biblical flood occurred
Speaker 4: approximately one thousand, eight hundred years ago.
Speaker 2: All right, all right, lay it on me thick here.
Speaker 2: So there's trees and there's craters, and somehow that's evidence
Speaker 2: for a mile high flood forty eight hundred years ago.
Speaker 4: Right the measure of the mile high the local bludge
Speaker 4: extent determined where the personally plugged olive branch returned to
Speaker 4: the ark by O's terrier doub Gage's water levels elevated
Speaker 4: near the world's most highly elevated olive trees, situated five
Speaker 4: thousand feet above sea level. A mile high biblical flood
Speaker 4: occurring roughly four thousand adred years ago is pevoted by
Speaker 4: the fact every four eight hundred plus year old tree
Speaker 4: alive today recently lived half deca millennium age three is
Speaker 4: rooted at least a mile the sea level, these trees
Speaker 4: being bristle cone pine trees of the Great Basin and
Speaker 4: cypress trees of Alisa Costego Nation noted park in today
Speaker 4: or Anger a comet strike occurring roughly four thousand hundred
Speaker 4: years ago, creating Borko's Crater, Sudani's read Hills Crater, the
Speaker 4: Mohas Trader, the Camel Crater, Romguard Crater of India, and
Speaker 4: the Henbury Traders of Australia evidently formed a mega tsunami
Speaker 4: wave higher than the third mile high Maga tsunami wave
Speaker 4: impacting with twee O Bay of Alaska nineteen fifty eight.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, let's stop right there. Let's let's go back
Speaker 2: and say, so crater forming a creator in the Earth
Speaker 2: and then causing tsunamis like that, that could possibly happen. Right.
Speaker 2: That's not the same thing though, as God flooding the Earth,
Speaker 2: right and then killing all sentient life on it, including
Speaker 2: the animals and whatnot, right, and then having that flood subside,
Speaker 2: and then having the Earth repopulate based on you know,
Speaker 2: two of every species. Right, That's kind of a different thing,
Speaker 2: wouldn't you agree?
Speaker 4: The Bible doesn't actually Bible was global from a Noah's perspective,
Speaker 4: obviously a myohile it's from you know, from Gast's perspective,
Speaker 4: would would seem to be a worldwide, but actuality, it
Speaker 4: would have to be a bimile high blood to be
Speaker 4: truly global to cover the top of the mount ever since,
Speaker 4: and and then the Bible doesn't actually uh, it doesn't
Speaker 4: actually say that. The Hebrew word for earth doesn't necessarily
Speaker 4: mean globe. Fact, the agent's not that the flat earthers,
Speaker 4: It's not that the globe. You know that they didn't
Speaker 4: even have a concept of a global flood. Just sinking the.
Speaker 1: Earth was like well, the understanding of most, if not all,
Speaker 1: Christians specifically, and many other religions as well. Why when
Speaker 1: asked Jews whether the Torah goes with this is that
Speaker 1: it was a global flood that was intended to wipe
Speaker 1: out all of humanity barring this one family, one story.
Speaker 2: The story goes that all humans right were crooked except
Speaker 2: for Noah's family, not just like the humans in the
Speaker 2: general vicinity, which so that would mean it would have
Speaker 2: to be global because there were humans living all over
Speaker 2: the world at that point, right.
Speaker 4: Not necessarily so by every everyone. That could mean Noah's perspective,
Speaker 4: and that could mean all the soum.
Speaker 1: So, dude, what you're what you're doing right now is
Speaker 1: basically giving like taking the divine out of It's like,
Speaker 1: here are some potentially naturalistic reasons as to the flood story. Thanks, dude,
Speaker 1: you do not job for us. Are you trying to
Speaker 1: convince us that the flood story has is basically a
Speaker 1: misinterpretation of natural phenomena and is not actually God derived.
Speaker 1: Do you believe that God's real? Do you believe that
Speaker 1: it was a divine punishment?
Speaker 4: Absolutely? I believe Goa was wrapped on an island surrounded
Speaker 4: by a bunch of ungrully zoophiles, and he had no
Speaker 4: way off the island without putting hisself in jeopardy, in
Speaker 4: his family property and livestock and jeopardy and needed to
Speaker 4: be rescued. And at the same time, I believe that
Speaker 4: these mistake only made these millennium passing pheno types and
Speaker 4: they needed to be wiped out from the human gene pool, and.
Speaker 1: God killed humans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so no, I think he's saying only a specific
Speaker 2: there is a sin population with the wrong phenotypes and
Speaker 2: they had to be ethnically cleansed in the local area.
Speaker 2: I think he's what he's saying, still, right, Steve, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he said correct.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's so wild interpretation that has absolutely no scriptural
Speaker 1: evidence to it as far as I'm aware, are you,
Speaker 1: I want to consult.
Speaker 2: I don't know why you'd say, no, livesn't an island.
Speaker 2: He was definitely like in the area that's now known
Speaker 2: as Iraq.
Speaker 4: He could have just he could have just he could
Speaker 4: have just gone mountain right escaped the flood could.
Speaker 2: Logically, well, yeah, that's why, that's why you had to
Speaker 2: build the boat to save the animals. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Like it's you know, if you want to do your
Speaker 2: own spin on it, you know, that's fine, But like
Speaker 2: the narrative is that everyone dies. Everything dies, Like it's
Speaker 2: not just a local flood, that it is everything, and
Speaker 2: so the leftover in order to prevent the you know,
Speaker 2: local life from dying, they have to build a boat
Speaker 2: to save it. That's that's part of the story. So
Speaker 2: you know, you can make your own spin on that,
Speaker 2: but like that's the story. That's how it presents itself.
Speaker 1: And if it's a Megasseudon army rather than a flood,
Speaker 1: if it's a Megasoudon army rather than a flood, show
Speaker 1: me the ship that can that can survive that, because
Speaker 1: the arc would be splinters by by by a wave
Speaker 1: that i energetic, You'll be tossed like a like a
Speaker 1: like a paper cup. Nothing about the story makes any
Speaker 1: sense when you take into account like the laws of
Speaker 1: physics for example, or.
Speaker 2: Yeah, animal, Yeah, if we're already talking about divine intervention.
Speaker 2: There's no point talking about the physical parts of it anyway,
Speaker 2: because you can just put any inconsistency in the story
Speaker 2: as part of divine intervention. So I don't know. You're
Speaker 2: You're between a rock and a hard place here, Steve.
Speaker 4: Okay. So NASA's double asteroid redirection tests altered the tra
Speaker 4: directory for five hundred foot long asteroid. This experiment demonstrated
Speaker 4: that technologically advanced space bearing beams BORNEO space Force containing
Speaker 4: half a billion ion beams Sepherd spacecraft to have indeed
Speaker 4: strategically guided during the course of a century from one
Speaker 4: hundred billion jet size intras Solert testimonials to first orbit,
Speaker 4: thereby over precipitating in their's atmosphere and consequently fretting the
Speaker 4: entire Hire Earth half a mile rainfall over the course
Speaker 4: of forty days and forty nights. And this intervention with
Speaker 4: a half mile way take any tsunami from prayer y coordinating.
Speaker 1: AH charts of the Gods.
Speaker 2: Steve, I can't. I can't help you, man, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: I think you and I Dan have spoken to Steve before.
Speaker 1: I think we may have had a conversation regarding coding
Speaker 1: in DNA and pyramids and triangles before. If memory serves Steve,
Speaker 1: you're making no sense, mate, Like it's completely unconvincing. And
Speaker 1: to segue to modern asteroid redirection experiments when we're talking
Speaker 1: about biblical times, like, nowhere in the Bible does it
Speaker 1: talk about the rockets and shit? Man, like you are
Speaker 1: you really honestly thinking this is going to be convincing
Speaker 1: to us?
Speaker 4: But the Bible is taught from perspective to the ancient
Speaker 4: ancient people.
Speaker 2: Yes, in other words, not a space faring civilization that
Speaker 2: can redirect meteors hitting the earth.
Speaker 4: Right, aliens? Yeah, they couldn't have understood that concept of
Speaker 4: ancient aliens, so it's pulled from their perspective so they
Speaker 4: could understand. Word.
Speaker 2: Okay, so here's the thing, and I'll leave it at this, Steve,
Speaker 2: because I don't know if I even want to go
Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole with you, but I'll have you
Speaker 2: think about this right little concept called Oukham's razor. Maybe
Speaker 2: you've heard of this or not. It talks about how
Speaker 2: generally the simplest solution tends to be the correct one.
Speaker 2: Not always the case, obviously, but something to think about.
Speaker 2: We can either suggest that an ancient group of people
Speaker 2: encountered in advanced space faring civilization that we somehow have
Speaker 2: no real record of besides coincidental instances of ancient records
Speaker 2: and stories that don't actually depict encountering an alien race
Speaker 2: at all, or any of its technology or an if
Speaker 2: it's culture or language or people, or a story from
Speaker 2: a couple thousand years ago just made some stuff up, right.
Speaker 2: I'm choosing the latter in that instance because that seems
Speaker 2: to cover a lot more ground than any explanation that's
Speaker 2: going to involve ancient aliens of really any kind. Right,
Speaker 2: And that's not just going to be true for the Israelites,
Speaker 2: that'll be true for any story from any ancient civilization
Speaker 2: that you kind of look at and go, huh, well,
Speaker 2: I wonder how that happened. I don't think Gilgamesh, you know,
Speaker 2: got immortality by drinking you know, space potions from Martians,
Speaker 2: you know. I just think it was a story about
Speaker 2: immortality in man's quest to live long and stuff. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's there's other things there. I just think there's going
Speaker 2: to be a simpler explanation pretty much every time you
Speaker 2: look at this. But I don't know, Steve, maybe you
Speaker 2: don't find that convincing. I'll give you a few seconds
Speaker 2: to respond here, but quite frankly, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't know if there's anything else to say.
Speaker 4: We have all these trees and cragers of evidence in
Speaker 4: the time frame and when the biblical what happened. We
Speaker 4: have these forty eight hundred year old creators, all of
Speaker 4: these I mentioned how the trees that are older than
Speaker 4: forty hundred yours only exist a way up elevation we are,
Speaker 4: so there was a stray blud that happened.
Speaker 2: Also have evidence, Steve that people make shit up, you know, right,
Speaker 2: we'll just make up stories, right, people have stories and
Speaker 2: cultural stories.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're stacking. You're stacking assumption over assumption, over assumption,
Speaker 1: and none of the evidence that you're giving us actually
Speaker 1: indicates what you're saying. So some trees that are higher
Speaker 1: up are you're saying, there's no trees on lower levels
Speaker 1: that are that are older than than forty eight hundred
Speaker 1: years I mean Sequoia redwoods are Like, there's trees out
Speaker 1: there that like ten thousand years old. It's nuts.
Speaker 2: You're also talking about trees in other locations that aren't
Speaker 2: like in the Middle East, Yeah, which is presumably where
Speaker 2: the story takes place, and if this is also a
Speaker 2: story about a local phenomenon will simultaneously also being a
Speaker 2: global flood thing. Like it's not really making any sense that.
Speaker 1: Has both divine and naturalistic explanations that also involve aliens.
Speaker 1: Just this is a fever dream man. I don't know
Speaker 1: how to engage with it anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing, Steve, All right, Well, anyway, I'm gonna let
Speaker 2: you go regardless because I don't think I can help you.
Speaker 2: I think maybe send a tweet to Marjorie Taylor Green
Speaker 2: and she might retweet you. But we can't help you,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like, that's that's beyond, that's
Speaker 2: beyond first of all, beyond the scope of talk hethen
Speaker 2: but also just like beyond the scope of just reality.
Speaker 2: I mean, like we got to start from some basics here.
Speaker 2: We can't just jump into aliens. Did everything well that
Speaker 2: at least establishing that aliens or even first of all
Speaker 2: a thing, second of all, make contact with humans. Third
Speaker 2: of all, like interacted with us in such a way
Speaker 2: that influenced the Bible and presumably other world cultures. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, We're in fantasy land now.
Speaker 1: So it just has the stench of post hoc rationalization,
Speaker 1: Like I believe that ancient aliens are God, and I
Speaker 1: will fit this narrative into that box from l or
Speaker 1: high water put intended.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just And this is my problem with the
Speaker 2: conspiracy crowd, because I engage with them a lot, and
Speaker 2: it's just like it's never it's just open mindedness enough
Speaker 2: to like not think things through all the way, right.
Speaker 2: It's like people like the idea of rejecting mainstream narratives,
Speaker 2: but they don't like like fleshing it out all the way.
Speaker 2: They just want to have enough information to I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's just to prove other people wrong or what.
Speaker 2: It's just like just a strange thing that some people
Speaker 2: are just interested in. I don't know. I don't have
Speaker 2: all the answers there. What I do know is that
Speaker 2: we have some super chance that I should read out
Speaker 2: that we've been given since last time we read some out.
Speaker 2: One comes from Rainbowolf, who gave four ninety nine and said,
Speaker 2: Anubis revealed himself when I got on my knees, he
Speaker 2: shined and showed me all that he can. He dances
Speaker 2: in the sand and blesses the Holy land. I feel like,
Speaker 2: is this a song lyrics? I believe this is a
Speaker 2: song lyrics that I'm not familiar with. Do you know this, Jami? Okay?
Speaker 2: All right, well, if it is song lyrics, thank you
Speaker 2: for the song lyrics, that sounds really cool. If it's
Speaker 2: not song lyrics, you should write song lyrics because those
Speaker 2: sound like they would be. But yeah, I think this
Speaker 2: is going back to our previous caller with Danny the
Speaker 2: whole you know, we got to get on her knees
Speaker 2: for three days in pray, I guess which he was
Speaker 2: a troll, But there's people who ironically believe that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. Of course, another one from Nero and who
Speaker 2: gave Nero? And then there's a symbol that don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know what that symbol is, but I've seen
Speaker 2: it before. But I'm just gonna say Nero gave five dollars,
Speaker 2: said Danny, you're gonna be happy and have it, knowing
Speaker 2: people are being eternally tortured, channels ripped off forever. Look
Speaker 2: at what you're calling good for fuck's sake. And yeah,
Speaker 2: it's silly, obviously, you know. Danny was later revealing the
Speaker 2: call to patrol probably should have been obviously in the beginning.
Speaker 9: But.
Speaker 1: It's been said by by other hosts one of the
Speaker 1: shows that while it's difficult, we have to we have
Speaker 1: to give the benefit of the dam to people calling in.
Speaker 1: They may be honest. Now Poe's Law is there, and
Speaker 1: we do have sort of like we get the troll
Speaker 1: kind of sense coming in. But when you're on this
Speaker 1: side of the camera and I'm in the audience on
Speaker 1: some of these shows, all it's very easy to do that,
Speaker 1: but when you're on this side of the camera, you
Speaker 1: have to give them the benefit of the dam to
Speaker 1: just try and engage.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And like you say, Dan, like there are people out
Speaker 1: there that believe these kinds of things for real, And
Speaker 1: so while the troll themselves maybe trying to have a
Speaker 1: bit of a laugh, we can still use them as
Speaker 1: an object lesson as to yeah, these ideas are still bunk,
Speaker 1: and let's tell you why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you there. It just it's just, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's unfortunate. I'd rather talk to people who
Speaker 2: are being real, yeah than anything. But we can't always
Speaker 2: get what you want, but you can try. Sometimes you
Speaker 2: might find that you get what you need. Ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 2: That's that's the closest that greg our producer will ever
Speaker 2: let me come to reproducing song lyrics, because he will
Speaker 2: yell at me otherwise if any if even so much
Speaker 2: as a pitch change in my voice comes out, that's it.
Speaker 2: No singing, no single loud. We can't let the copyright demons,
Speaker 2: you know, haunt our videos.
Speaker 1: You go to amiss that much. The YouTube's annoy is
Speaker 1: a bit hat trigger. So we got to be careful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk to another caller though, shall we. We
Speaker 2: have Eduardo, who I just recently spoke to on Truth
Speaker 2: Wanted on Friday, calling in again on TALKA that it
Speaker 2: is called in Talkithen before EDWARDO from Brazil live on
Speaker 2: Talk Heathen. What's going on? Eduardo? You are live? If
Speaker 2: you can there, we go Hello, Eduardo?
Speaker 8: Did you hear me?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Right, we can hear you. Now, what's up?
Speaker 8: I think it's okay? So you'll for a question out there.
Speaker 8: I don't even know if you remember doing that for
Speaker 8: a question, as do. I saidistic call If if I'm
Speaker 8: a lawyer, would I accept the same kind of evidence
Speaker 8: that I accept for spiritism?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: I said that. After our we had a conversation for
Speaker 2: those who aren't familiar, a conversation on truth wanted and uh,
Speaker 2: we talked to you, talked about your evidence, and I
Speaker 2: was surprised by the caliber of your evidence. And after
Speaker 2: the call, I made the comment, because you had mentioned
Speaker 2: you were a lawyer, that if you were to present
Speaker 2: the evidence you gave me in a court of law,
Speaker 2: if you thought that would be acceptable evidence. So I'm
Speaker 2: curious to see your response to that is.
Speaker 8: Incredible as it may seem to you, is actually yes,
Speaker 8: there's actually precedent for that here.
Speaker 10: And uh, but so so, just to just to reiterate,
Speaker 10: because the evidence you gave me, we were talking about reincarnation,
Speaker 10: and the evidence you gave me, Eduardo was well, you
Speaker 10: know how sometimes you meet somebody and it feels like
Speaker 10: you've known them their entire life.
Speaker 2: That's evidence for reincarnation. And and I was surprised that
Speaker 2: that was what you gave me.
Speaker 8: That's probably yeah, but that's that's the that's the thing.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 8: And it's actually a pretty I wasn't part of that.
Speaker 8: I know that as as as precedent, and uh, it
Speaker 8: was a pretty It is a It is actually a
Speaker 8: pretty delicated case because it's like it's as let's call
Speaker 8: a show house. I guess that's that caught on fire.
Speaker 8: And and most people died because they couldn't get out
Speaker 8: of there.
Speaker 1: And uh during the.
Speaker 8: Trial, Uh, one of the lawyers of the the the
Speaker 8: the owner, decided to actually also a medium. And uh
Speaker 8: and and well he kind of did that. Nobody thought
Speaker 8: that that would be acceptable, despite the guy has a history.
Speaker 2: He was the wait, wait, hold on this court, this
Speaker 2: case you're involved in, they accepted the testimony of a medium,
Speaker 2: like in lieu of somebody else's testimony, like they were
Speaker 2: speaking through them or something. Why was the medium there?
Speaker 8: Yeah, it was to talk on behalf of these victims.
Speaker 8: That's why I say that it's a pretty delicate key.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah yeah. I First of all, any medium that
Speaker 2: says they can speak on behalf of people who have
Speaker 2: passed is a fraud sterre first and foremost. I'll be
Speaker 2: the first to say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: So.
Speaker 8: Actually and so did she said? You know, probably because
Speaker 8: medians only the Seius guy, they don't choose the the
Speaker 8: contact their context.
Speaker 2: So well, this is I mean, mediums make up the
Speaker 2: fact that they are contacting the dead and pretend to
Speaker 2: be somebody else.
Speaker 1: And have been caught out so many times. You can
Speaker 1: just look at there's compilations of mediums getting it horrifically wrong.
Speaker 1: And one of my favorites is one medium who believed
Speaker 1: that they could find or could talk to the spirits
Speaker 1: of deceased people and were shown a photo of a
Speaker 1: little girl and said, well, can you can you detect
Speaker 1: whether she's there? And the photo was of the woman
Speaker 1: that was handing her the photo as a child. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I don't know where you're coming from, Like you
Speaker 1: just everything you just said just makes me think that
Speaker 1: spirituality is bunk. I mean, if we're trying to prove
Speaker 1: that spirituality is good and that it should be taken seriously,
Speaker 1: seriously enough to be using the court of law, you're
Speaker 1: doing a bit of a bad job of a chase.
Speaker 8: And no, and that's the thing. So so the exa
Speaker 8: said he probably wouldn't did he actually? Uh, well, was
Speaker 8: contacted And I remember that case because at that time
Speaker 8: I wasn't. I wasn't I didn't believe I was already
Speaker 8: graduated invalid everything. So the problem is he did he
Speaker 8: got it right the things that people didn't know, and
Speaker 8: and the problem is is it wasn't supposed to be
Speaker 8: accepted even even even then, but it actually was. And
Speaker 8: that that's kind of like it was big news here
Speaker 8: because you know people, some people say, well, it shouldn't
Speaker 8: be it should be me. I I really think that
Speaker 8: in that case, it's it was supposed to be irrelevant because.
Speaker 2: Yes, what's the point? Wait? Wait, can I ask the
Speaker 2: frank question. Were you actually a part of this case
Speaker 2: personally or are you just reporting something that happened in Brazil.
Speaker 8: No, no, no, no, it's it's but it's but it's precedent,
Speaker 8: it's it's it's uh, okay.
Speaker 2: But you but you weren't involved in this case yourself professionally.
Speaker 8: No no, no, no.
Speaker 11: No, okay, okay, because if you were, I was gonna
Speaker 11: be like Eduardo, you got to up your lawyering game.
Speaker 11: But because if there's if if if the other side
Speaker 11: is presenting a witness as a medium and speaking for
Speaker 11: the dead, they're like, you got to call that ship out,
Speaker 11: Like that's I mean, like come on in your shoes, right,
Speaker 11: I mean, if you were to examine that case, if
Speaker 11: you were to be a part of that case, how
Speaker 11: could you not ask the court to completely throw that
Speaker 11: out right, How could you ever accept that as as
Speaker 11: legitimate in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 8: That's the thing the other side, the other side actually
Speaker 8: asked for it to be from well, but it wasn't.
Speaker 2: Shut up, really, are you serious? Way the other Oh
Speaker 2: my god, no, that's terrible.
Speaker 9: Right here.
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's literally in Phoenix, right, that's not even a joke.
Speaker 2: That is actually the plot of Phoenix right in the
Speaker 2: first episodes.
Speaker 8: That's a problem. It's it's I don't see. I wouldn't
Speaker 8: do it if if I was the lawyer, not because
Speaker 8: I don't believe, because I actually do, but because it's relevant.
Speaker 8: I mean, if you commit a crime, there are two victims,
Speaker 8: them the viti of the crime, and that's the state,
Speaker 8: because the state can't allow the crime. So and in
Speaker 8: this case it was negligies, so the vision sets something.
Speaker 8: It isn't relevant.
Speaker 9: Yes, I agree, except some people think that actually it
Speaker 9: counted on the on the measure of the pinet, although
Speaker 9: you could be that because it's just accepted.
Speaker 8: But it wasn't in the.
Speaker 1: Let me let me stop you that change. Please please,
Speaker 1: let me let me ask is the purpose of this
Speaker 1: core that you are making today to try and advocate
Speaker 1: for the existence of the spiritual.
Speaker 2: Yeah are you? Are you pro mediums?
Speaker 12: No?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, okay, okay some of them by some
Speaker 2: of them, though, let's talk about that, because I think
Speaker 2: that leads credence to some of your other ideas when
Speaker 2: it comes to spiritism. Why should I believe literally any
Speaker 2: medium ever.
Speaker 8: Well, you should believe when you didn't feel a questionnaire,
Speaker 8: for example, and they give details of your life that
Speaker 8: nobody knows, quoting passages of your life. It's not in general,
Speaker 8: not ah, you know it happened when you were really quoting.
Speaker 1: That's when it's it's okay. So I'm gonna I want
Speaker 1: to rack off a few terms here at water, hot,
Speaker 1: reading cold. Ran Barnum statements that there are so many
Speaker 1: psychological tricks, especially in the day and age of social media,
Speaker 1: Like if I go to a medium, I bet they
Speaker 1: could tell me so many things about me just by
Speaker 1: watching the videos I've been in. Like, you're not being
Speaker 1: very convincing their chief. There are so many ways to
Speaker 1: make the credulous believe that you can.
Speaker 8: You can.
Speaker 1: You have knowledge beyond there, beyond the thing. You don't
Speaker 1: have to be flipping. Peter Popp was it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, look, in today's world, it's even harder. Sorry,
Speaker 2: it's even easier to get away with it because all
Speaker 2: you can have to do is google somebody's name before
Speaker 2: you meet them, and you find their social media. You
Speaker 2: can find a whole bunch of stuff about them. And
Speaker 2: and they've done this. Thomas Westbrook has a whole series
Speaker 2: on his YouTube channel about how you know, they've taken
Speaker 2: these mediums and they put out fake social media profiles
Speaker 2: of people out there, and so when they those people
Speaker 2: go to meet the mediums, the mediums are quoting stuff
Speaker 2: from their fake social media profiles that aren't actually from
Speaker 2: their real life. I mean, there's tons of mediums that
Speaker 2: do this kind of stuff. There's a lot of these
Speaker 2: tricks to the trade. I don't think. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: if I went to a medium and they were telling
Speaker 2: me some sort of dark secret about my past that
Speaker 2: was extremely explicit in detail that nobody has ever known,
Speaker 2: then yeah, that would be one thing. But that's never happened.
Speaker 2: It hasn't happened to me, and I don't think it's
Speaker 2: actually ever happened to anybody that's ever been to a medium,
Speaker 2: because I don't think that they have the power to
Speaker 2: do that, man, Like, I just don't think that there's
Speaker 2: ever been a case that a medium has been demonstrated
Speaker 2: without reasonable doubt that they Hey, they're legit, you know.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, man, I don't know what to
Speaker 2: tell you. It's like, we can't be relying on fraudsters
Speaker 2: for the proof of spiritism here or any kind of
Speaker 2: a reincarnation or the supernatural or anything. That's just that's
Speaker 2: I'm gonna cut it. We gotta we gotta do better
Speaker 2: than that, right right, But.
Speaker 8: That's that's exactly that. I don't think I've seen it,
Speaker 8: but issue, well, everybody say that. But if she knew me,
Speaker 8: uh you know, I mean you should knew me well
Speaker 8: for my whole life? Who who was titled? Like just
Speaker 8: for the kind of frame of mind that I that
Speaker 8: I kind of guy you would it would actually give
Speaker 8: some reasons because I don't press easily. It sounds like that.
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, okay, wait, ed WARDO, ed WARDO. Here's what
Speaker 2: you do. Okay, here's what you do. You say you
Speaker 2: know a medium, you know a medium that you like, right,
Speaker 2: and you get them to talk to me on this show?
Speaker 2: Can you get them to talk to one of us
Speaker 2: on the Collin Show. Can we make that happen?
Speaker 8: I don't know, I don't know they speak English, but true.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, if you can, if you can talk, if
Speaker 2: you can get a medium to talk to one of
Speaker 2: our college shows, and we will not be paying a dime.
Speaker 2: By the way, we won't pay for it. If they
Speaker 2: ask for money, the ASA will not We will not
Speaker 2: give money the fraudsters. I'm just to let you know
Speaker 2: right now. But if they're willing to do it, maybe
Speaker 2: tell them we get some free publicity. We can, we
Speaker 2: can set that up because we can definitely show people,
Speaker 2: at least live on the air why this stuff like
Speaker 2: just doesn't work right or at least you know, isn't
Speaker 2: convincing to us. But I don't know. That's just an
Speaker 2: idea at Bardo, because I mean, we can't I can't
Speaker 2: do anything with you telling me, Wow, this person new
Speaker 2: stuff that I didn't tell them, because that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's not specific for us to really talk about.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well let me say, let's just say something, by
Speaker 8: the way, series me just actually don't ask for money.
Speaker 8: They can be paid for that. They can mean, they
Speaker 8: can't even accept the nations.
Speaker 2: I mean, uh well, maybe okay, maybe I'll talk with
Speaker 2: our producer. Maybe we can arrange a good donation if
Speaker 2: if we feel like the medium has you know, fulfilled
Speaker 2: our criteria or something. All right, no, no, Richard, Richard
Speaker 2: is shaking his head at me. No, we won't even
Speaker 2: do that. We won't even we won't even pretend. Never mind.
Speaker 2: But okay, fine, if if they're if they're good mediums
Speaker 2: and they won't accept money, even better, right, we'll take
Speaker 2: free mediums, but we'll talk to them on the show.
Speaker 2: But like, man, you know that's I don't know. I
Speaker 2: can't do it much. We just I talked to a
Speaker 2: medium one time, and they convinced me.
Speaker 1: There's more motivations than money as well. If you are
Speaker 1: convinced that you have powers and your delusional, do you
Speaker 1: still want to sort of show your powers? And any
Speaker 1: time that any supernatural phenomena has been actually independently tested,
Speaker 1: it's always been found.
Speaker 2: I'll do this, Okay, maybe okay, we won't do the ACA.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll put up my own personal money. How about that,
Speaker 2: I'll pay them myself. If if I'm convinced that that
Speaker 2: the medium did their job and we can put it
Speaker 2: in a pot somewhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, James Randy for years, million dollars
Speaker 1: waiting for you if you can prove the supernatural, and
Speaker 1: no one ever did so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that would make for some good content, I
Speaker 2: think good Ward. Oh, I'd be willing to do that.
Speaker 8: I mean, I mean, it's there, willing to call in
Speaker 8: and bl it free. But don't don't don't bleed men.
Speaker 8: Don't don't give them money because that actually, that actually
Speaker 8: to fear, and that actually can lead if the guys
Speaker 8: are shogging off to be used, that can lead them
Speaker 8: to a pretty dark place.
Speaker 2: What do you mean?
Speaker 8: Yeah, because if you, if you, if you use those
Speaker 8: gifts and and and for money for any advantage, and
Speaker 8: it's uh, you start attracting less serious spirits and then
Speaker 8: sometimes evil spirits, and uh, you go to a pretty
Speaker 8: dark place. I know somebody who did that.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, man. That's that's that's
Speaker 2: a whole other can of worms. I don't know if
Speaker 2: I can talk to you about the personal motivations of
Speaker 2: evil spirits with you, after everything we talked to we're
Speaker 2: at a time with this call. Man. We've already talked
Speaker 2: about so much other stuff.
Speaker 5: But I do.
Speaker 2: I do enjoy talking with you. You do present a
Speaker 2: very interesting perspective that I enjoy exploring with you. But
Speaker 2: I have to let you go now because we've got
Speaker 2: some other folks on the line. Edwinald. If you can do,
Speaker 2: if you can find a medium to talk to us
Speaker 2: on the show, I will. I will give you a
Speaker 2: I don't know, standing ovation, because that's that's doing first
Speaker 2: of all, let's do and work for us, all right,
Speaker 2: let's be real. That's given us content. So I'll thank
Speaker 2: you for that. But that'd be say, if we can
Speaker 2: talk to a medium on Talking Heathen, that would make
Speaker 2: my day. So let me know if that's possible for you.
Speaker 2: If not, whatever, we'll just have our regular conversations. But
Speaker 2: you know that'll be something that'll be something for both
Speaker 2: of us, I think. But I will let you go now.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Eduardo for your conversations with us. My goodness,
Speaker 2: Oh man.
Speaker 1: It's just a story. I'm going to tell you some
Speaker 1: stories and hope they convince it like them, then they're not,
Speaker 1: And I don't really know what to do with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when we bang on about wanting evidence, but it really
Speaker 1: is important because I can tell stories. It doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that true.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been getting adds on my Reddit for
Speaker 2: like mediums in the California area specifically. I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I think there's some sort of California medium company.
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely saw that story that was going
Speaker 1: around about a little person who was convicted of fraud
Speaker 1: for using tarot cards. Different people. They said, there's a
Speaker 1: small medium at large here.
Speaker 2: I found the business. Yeah, I won't say their name
Speaker 2: out loud, but there is a specific psychic business that
Speaker 2: I've been getting a lot of advertisements for so at
Speaker 2: least some of them are asking for money. Maybe those
Speaker 2: are just the fake ones and not the real, the
Speaker 2: real mediums, you know, because that's the thing too, If
Speaker 2: if mediumship was real, right, there would inevitably, inevitably be
Speaker 2: people that would fake it. So you know, that is
Speaker 2: something to consider.
Speaker 1: And it's like, don't you find it schange that every
Speaker 1: time someone goes in for like past life, for agression
Speaker 1: hypnosis and stuff, they always had a really interesting life.
Speaker 1: It was never you're born, you got polio at seven
Speaker 1: and died and that's it.
Speaker 2: It's always, oh you were Jesus.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, you're a maid in the in the houses
Speaker 1: of the courts of Versaillah whatever. It's always really interesting.
Speaker 1: You never just your name was Jeff and you died
Speaker 1: of consumption.
Speaker 2: Your name was Jeff, and you just you did walk
Speaker 2: both ways before crossing the street one day, and that
Speaker 2: was it. So yeah, I don't know, it never seems
Speaker 2: to be that way, but you're right. Yeah, I just
Speaker 2: want to talk to the medium on talk ethen. That'd
Speaker 2: be sick, to be sick. I would love that so much, honestly.
Speaker 2: But anyway, let's let's get to our next caller. Here
Speaker 2: we have D who is calling in from Iowa and
Speaker 2: D you are live on talk Ethan. What's going on?
Speaker 12: Hey, guys, how are you good?
Speaker 2: Good? Deep? Thanks for wading on the line. What can
Speaker 2: we do for you today?
Speaker 12: No worries, no worries. Look, I just want to throw
Speaker 12: out there to your first caller, how obscene it is
Speaker 12: to tell somebody they didn't try hard enough. When I
Speaker 12: was little, my mother was excessively physical with me, and
Speaker 12: one day, after a particularly horrendous event, I actually passed
Speaker 12: out just from trauma and got myself a vision of Jesus.
Speaker 12: He wasn't there to help or anything. He just stood
Speaker 12: there looking at me, and I just felt this. I
Speaker 12: just felt this crushing sense of disappointment. And I was
Speaker 12: about seven years old at the time, and I decided
Speaker 12: because I had just heard about Jesus at vacation Bible
Speaker 12: school the previous summer, and how Jesus wanted us to
Speaker 12: tell our friends about him and saved them, and so
Speaker 12: I thought, you know, if I saved enough of my
Speaker 12: friends for Jesus, maybe he would step in and stop everything.
Speaker 12: And I held on to a sense of trying to
Speaker 12: appease Jesus and God for years into my adult life, praying, evangelizing,
Speaker 12: and so yeah.
Speaker 2: That's that's really, that's that's Rody. I'm so sorry that
Speaker 2: you had to go through that. I think if Jesus
Speaker 2: was real and he really cared about us, like you know,
Speaker 2: maybe he shouldn't show up in times of trauma and
Speaker 2: you should just you know, be around for you know,
Speaker 2: other things besides the worst moments in our life. Really
Speaker 2: sorry to hear that that happened to you.
Speaker 5: No, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 12: I know now, of course that it wasn't really Jesus,
Speaker 12: but at that age.
Speaker 8: This is kind of ironic.
Speaker 12: Is that my mom put up that that. You know,
Speaker 12: I'm sure you've all seen that portrait, the light skinned,
Speaker 12: brown haired, blue eyed Jesus looking up with a soft
Speaker 12: light falling gently on his face. And you know, my
Speaker 12: mom put that picture up in my room. I didn't
Speaker 12: put it up there.
Speaker 1: Mom did.
Speaker 12: And I feel so enraged when Christians tell us that,
Speaker 12: you know, people showing out thousands of dollars to the
Speaker 12: healer on TV, speaking in tongues and saying I got
Speaker 12: somebody out there with liver disease and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unfortunate, like like mediums, those people they take
Speaker 2: advantage of other people, and yeah, it's it's it's not
Speaker 2: a good scene. We're totally against those types of people
Speaker 2: as well. The worst, the worst kinds of Christians, honestly,
Speaker 2: are those kinds, the ones that profit over people in
Speaker 2: uh in times of desperateness.
Speaker 1: And we have colleagues in the community here that have
Speaker 1: presented on these shows and I'm not going to name names,
Speaker 1: but you can find their testimony on videos that desperately
Speaker 1: desperately wanted God to be real. They agonized over losing
Speaker 1: their faith and it was the most painful thing that
Speaker 1: happened to them to lose it because it was their life,
Speaker 1: their whole life. But they couldn't keep the faith because
Speaker 1: reason just wouldn't let them. And so when, like you say,
Speaker 1: when a Christian comes along and says, well, you just
Speaker 1: weren't doing it right, you weren't good enough, Yes, that
Speaker 1: is enver rating.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I've never been a believer, not really, so I don't
Speaker 1: have that kind of personal experience of losing faith, but
Speaker 1: I can imagine how gut wrenching it can be to
Speaker 1: have something so important to not torn away but just
Speaker 1: break down and have nothing to replace it other than
Speaker 1: the cold, hard light of reality. So yeah, I vicariously
Speaker 1: can get on board with that anger, that the arrogance
Speaker 1: of these people who would say that you just weren't
Speaker 1: good enough, didn't pray hard enough.
Speaker 12: You were a real Christian?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the no true Scotsman finds in thee Oh.
Speaker 12: But yeah, I just hope he's still listening and knows
Speaker 12: what a jackass he sounded like when he said that.
Speaker 1: Oh he knows, that's what it was. That's what he's
Speaker 1: here for. Starting to laugh. But as we've said before,
Speaker 1: he may have been taking the piss, But there are
Speaker 1: plenty of people out there who honestly do believe that,
Speaker 1: and they have to because if they come down to
Speaker 1: the fact that it doesn't matter how hard you pray,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how much you believe, there is nobody listening,
Speaker 1: then they would have to come face to face with
Speaker 1: the reality that they don't have Daddy in the sky
Speaker 1: looking after them and there is no plan. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's their defense. They externalize it and make it a
Speaker 1: kind of violence against the people because if they don't,
Speaker 1: then they would have to look inward, and they don't
Speaker 1: want to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always a moral hierarchy that has to be set,
Speaker 2: and the hierarchy is that believers are always better than
Speaker 2: non believers. So if you are a non believer, it
Speaker 2: is something that's your fault. It has to be something
Speaker 2: that's your fault, because if it's not, then what's this
Speaker 2: hierarchy for?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Why am I doing all this work? Why am I
Speaker 2: going to church? Why am I praying? Why am I
Speaker 2: going to Bible study? Why am I censoring the words
Speaker 2: that I speak? Why do I have to wait for
Speaker 2: sex before marriage? Why am I doing all this stuff?
Speaker 2: If none of it is real, right, there has to
Speaker 2: be some sort of justification so at least you get
Speaker 2: something out of it, and that's just part of the
Speaker 2: con of it all. Unfortunately.
Speaker 12: Well, and I just wanted to say, you know, it's
Speaker 12: Sunday afternoon, lots of people have been to church, and
Speaker 12: if you had somebody tell that to you today, please
Speaker 12: know that this is not anything that you are or
Speaker 12: are not doing that. If your pastor has to tell
Speaker 12: you that, then he doesn't really know what he's talking
Speaker 12: about at all.
Speaker 2: Amen. Amen, there's hope anything sign and pre tweet D
Speaker 2: I'm all about it.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Was there anything else you want
Speaker 2: to share with us before we let you go today?
Speaker 12: No, thanks for taking my call. Guys, you have a
Speaker 12: great day.
Speaker 2: Thank you, D you too, you too. Yeah, it sucks.
Speaker 2: It's the worst. It's one of my Like, I've been
Speaker 2: doing this stuff long enough to where a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff doesn't annoy me too much anymore because you kind
Speaker 2: of just hear stuff over and over again, the whole
Speaker 2: you were never a Christian thing. That's the one that
Speaker 2: still kind of gets me a little bit, being honest, because.
Speaker 1: It's basically, say, call me a liar without calling me
Speaker 1: a liar. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a it's a self referential cage that
Speaker 2: you put yourself into. It's a logic trap, because you're
Speaker 2: damned if you do damned if you don't like If
Speaker 2: you're already a believer, think good, you already get all
Speaker 2: the benefits. But if you ever struggled with that, ever,
Speaker 2: then suddenly you just aren't good enough, right, And so
Speaker 2: that either propels you into Christianity again, right, so that
Speaker 2: you don't have those kinds of doubts and you don't
Speaker 2: breakaway from that thinking, or you end up like well,
Speaker 2: like me, I guess. So that might be a good
Speaker 2: thing or a bad thing, depending on who you ask.
Speaker 2: But regardless of that, I do have some super chance
Speaker 2: not super chats, excuse me, top five patrons that I
Speaker 2: need to get to, and then I think we'll have
Speaker 2: time for maybe one more call after that, you know,
Speaker 2: Lord b Willing cthulhul Lilling. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2: know which one do with that, but let's get to
Speaker 2: the top five patrons here as soon as I have
Speaker 2: in front of you, which I do now. Uh, the
Speaker 2: number one patron from our top five patrons is Oops
Speaker 2: All Singularity of course, of course, next number two is
Speaker 2: Dingle Barry Jackson. Number three is Kleevi Helvetti. Number four
Speaker 2: is Brian Zipke. Number five is Jaya Carlton. In our
Speaker 2: honorable mention this week goes to Moldrid d Malcontent. Thank
Speaker 2: you guys so much for donating, and if you'd like
Speaker 2: to become a Top five patron or just a patron
Speaker 2: in general, you can definitely do that by going to
Speaker 2: tiny dout cc slash, Patreon and potentially get your name rd.
Speaker 2: And on that note, we have started doing the Talk
Speaker 2: Heathen discord after show and we have recordings of that
Speaker 2: for all levels of paid patrons, So if you want
Speaker 2: more content and you want a more informal look, and
Speaker 2: some of the hosts join the Patreon to catch up
Speaker 2: on some of that content. So with that, I think
Speaker 2: we have time.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be trying to be real quick with this.
Speaker 2: We'll get to Musical Instruments calling in from Virginia. Musical Instruments,
Speaker 2: you're live on Talk Heathen.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 2: We'll try to keep it real short because we're at
Speaker 2: the tail end of the show here, but we want
Speaker 2: to get you in some musical instruments. You are alive
Speaker 2: on talk Heathen. What's going on?
Speaker 7: No problem, I'll make it quick. I've talked to you before. Dan.
Speaker 7: I wanted to talk to Jamie really quick about what
Speaker 7: he said at the beginning of the show about I
Speaker 7: don't want to misquote you, Jamie. You said something about
Speaker 7: if there was one thing you could take from the
Speaker 7: religions or people who believed, it would be that idea
Speaker 7: that there's a plan and then everything.
Speaker 1: So that's something like what you said. The comfort in
Speaker 1: believing that no matter how bad things can get, that
Speaker 1: it's it's for a reason, and that the realization that
Speaker 1: the world and the universe at large is not planned,
Speaker 1: it just is gives very little in the way of comfort,
Speaker 1: but can give freedom. I'm an optimistic nihilist myself.
Speaker 7: Okay, And with that freedom, I'm free to paint my
Speaker 7: own picture of what I believe. So I don't I
Speaker 7: don't fall into the binary Christian non Christian, because that
Speaker 7: I see as a trap. I see it as a
Speaker 7: it's not a place I want to go. That either
Speaker 7: it is or it is, And I look at other books,
Speaker 7: I look at other sources. But what I'm really interested
Speaker 7: in is how we can find that that idea that
Speaker 7: everything is okay and always will be it won't.
Speaker 1: Sometimes bad things happen for no reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's that's Unfortunately a disadvantage of
Speaker 2: our position, right, being a non believer position, is that
Speaker 2: we don't really have a higher power to ascribe to
Speaker 2: things both good and bad. Right, So if the universe
Speaker 2: just is what it is, the universe just is.
Speaker 8: What it is.
Speaker 2: We're thankful for the times when things are good to us,
Speaker 2: and we're hopeful when times when things are bad to
Speaker 2: us that the bad times won't last as long. And
Speaker 2: that's pretty much all we can do. But we also
Speaker 2: think it's the most honest thing we can do, because
Speaker 2: I mean, if we just fly to ourselves and think
Speaker 2: that there is something else out there watching over us,
Speaker 2: then that's not going to necessarily make things better. Sometimes
Speaker 2: making things better is beyond our control, but sometimes it isn't,
Speaker 2: and that's when we have to organize, do some work
Speaker 2: and try to get things done. But yeah, that would
Speaker 2: be our perspective.
Speaker 7: What do you think lying to one's sell are we
Speaker 7: know the authors of our own our own journeys so
Speaker 7: to speak? I guess I don't understand the lying.
Speaker 1: To the sel.
Speaker 2: Sure. Well, so you know when I was doubting, and
Speaker 2: I'm doing this with the context musical instruments that I
Speaker 2: know that you've encountered Christian culture, you were a part
Speaker 2: of Christian culture. I remember our conversation last time, right
Speaker 2: when I was a Christian and I identified as such.
Speaker 2: I was at a time also halfway in the atheist camp,
Speaker 2: but not quite atheist, right. I was kind of going
Speaker 2: through this back and forth, and I kept myself in
Speaker 2: Christian community. And it wasn't until I was really seeing
Speaker 2: the harm that even my very own Christian community was
Speaker 2: doing that I had to absolutely absconde myself. Okay, I
Speaker 2: had to absolutely leave and realize I had to just
Speaker 2: pick aside here in Meander because I was trying to
Speaker 2: play both sides. I was trying to like get the
Speaker 2: benefits of being Christian, the privilege that comes to being Christian,
Speaker 2: the friends that come with being privileged being a Christian,
Speaker 2: while also trying to have the intellectual honesty of atheism
Speaker 2: and like listening to podcasts and reading books and exploring
Speaker 2: all this stuff. And I realized, like, you know, I
Speaker 2: couldn't mesh both of these worlds together. And I think
Speaker 2: that's what some people do. I think some people who
Speaker 2: like don't want to put a label on whatever they're doing,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like them trying to get the
Speaker 2: benefits of all things here, right, And that's what I
Speaker 2: was doing for a long time, and I had to
Speaker 2: just come honest with myself and realize, Yeah, there probably
Speaker 2: isn't a real Christianity. It's probably always going to be
Speaker 2: a man made thing. It's probably God is always probably
Speaker 2: going to be a man made thing. If there is
Speaker 2: a higher power, I don't know him, you know, and
Speaker 2: he's certainly not communicating with me. So I just kind
Speaker 2: of had to accept life for what it is. I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of people that are in that
Speaker 2: spot in between, right. So I guess that's what I
Speaker 2: mean by lying to myself to make a choice. Yeah, choice, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 7: I think what atheism is doing to push back against
Speaker 7: religion is necessary. I think religion has to be pushed
Speaker 7: back against.
Speaker 1: Is just an answer to a question, do you believe in? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: ant he apologetic whoever.
Speaker 7: Is doing the pushing back to be done, I agree with.
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, sure, sure, absolutely, that's what we're here for. Baby, Yeah,
Speaker 3: we're about and that's necessary. But I mean, on a
Speaker 3: personal level, what's wrong with with seeking? I don't see any.
Speaker 7: Problem as long as it doesn't harm others or I'm
Speaker 7: not spreading you know mine is anyone else? What's wrong
Speaker 7: with the personal journey?
Speaker 1: Because the you thought patterns that are required to engage
Speaker 1: in belief of higher powers, supernatural things I believe are
Speaker 1: inherently flawed and much like anything that can bring comfort,
Speaker 1: that's dangerous. I treat magical thinking and belief in the
Speaker 1: supernatural the same way as I would treat like alcohol
Speaker 1: or drugs. Yeah, you can dabble, maybe it'd be cool
Speaker 1: and functional with it, but it's still dangerous and harmful.
Speaker 1: So if you think you can handle it, maybe you
Speaker 1: go ahead, But I am still going to argue against it.
Speaker 1: On Prince, I think I would.
Speaker 2: Probably answer a little bit differently than Jamie. I think
Speaker 2: what I would say.
Speaker 5: Is I.
Speaker 1: Want to know about the danger though, because to quote,
Speaker 1: I believe, I can't remember who it was. If you
Speaker 1: can be if you can believe in if you can
Speaker 1: believe in idiocy, you can be convinced to atrocity, Like
Speaker 1: if you don't make your beliefs comp with what is evidenced,
Speaker 1: with what is demonstrable. Then you can be convinced of
Speaker 1: so many things like being incredulous is dangerous, and it
Speaker 1: can be as little as oh, that's Nigerian prince really
Speaker 1: wants to send me ten thousand dollars, or it can
Speaker 1: be gay people should be killed, and it's all coming
Speaker 1: from the same flaw to epistemology of my feelings on
Speaker 1: this are more important than the evidence against it.
Speaker 2: So like again, I would answer, I would answer this
Speaker 2: like a little bit differently I think from Jamie because
Speaker 2: their open mindedness isn't the problem here, right, It's more
Speaker 2: about what we give credence to what we don't. So
Speaker 2: in the history of the United States, for example, there
Speaker 2: have literally been laws, right that have been made, the
Speaker 2: fairness doctrine. You've probably maybe you've heard about this when
Speaker 2: it comes to like climate change. When we talk about
Speaker 2: this where basically you know what we're giving coverage to
Speaker 2: climate change, you pretty much always have to give some
Speaker 2: climate change skeptic on and every time they talk about it,
Speaker 2: even though that's not the majority opinion of scientists, right,
Speaker 2: it's not the majority thinking in the scientific community. But
Speaker 2: by giving that effect that they're both kind of on
Speaker 2: equal playing field, that gives more of a credence than
Speaker 2: what's necessarily warranted to these other ideas. And I think
Speaker 2: that's the problem that comes with being in this sort
Speaker 2: of in this seeking kind of mindset, which again, you know,
Speaker 2: I encourage being open minded absolutely, but I'm not going
Speaker 2: to pretend that all ideas are equal.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 2: So if you were to tell me, for example, what's
Speaker 2: wrong with me seeking? I just want to figure out
Speaker 2: more of the stories of l. Ron Hubbard, and you
Speaker 2: know what his teachings can find me. I'll give you
Speaker 2: a whole list of why scientology is bad, right, And
Speaker 2: you would probably say, well, that's ridiculous, right, everybody knows
Speaker 2: that scientology is bad and all the things that come
Speaker 2: with it. The thing is, I'm not sure everybody is
Speaker 2: convinced is why Christianity is bad, right, or why Islam
Speaker 2: can be as bad? Right, Like, they absolutely do have
Speaker 2: demonstrable harm, maybe perhaps not as radically pinpointed is scientology.
Speaker 2: But you know, David Koresh was successful, for example, because
Speaker 2: of Christianity's success, right, Like you know, sometimes these ideas
Speaker 2: can piggyback off each other into real unexpected you know, directions.
Speaker 2: So it's not that I'm against being open minded. I'm
Speaker 2: just more so against all ideas being on equal ground
Speaker 2: because I just don't think that's the case. I think
Speaker 2: you still have to apply skepticism to whatever ideas you explore.
Speaker 1: I do like John Oliver's analogy of that. It's like
Speaker 1: it would be madness to eat this bar of soap,
Speaker 1: so I'll just take a bite now.
Speaker 7: I understand. So the world is changing to the point
Speaker 7: where one must take a side or one is not.
Speaker 7: If I remain neutral, I'm really doing nothing.
Speaker 1: Is is that kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, neutrality is always always always in the
Speaker 2: benefit of the oppressor, right, Right. The people who fought
Speaker 2: for you know, equal rights in this country had to fight.
Speaker 2: They didn't just you know, let laws be the way
Speaker 2: they were. There were things that were wrong that were happening,
Speaker 2: and people had to speak up in order for things
Speaker 2: to change. Right. There's there's a reason why why we're
Speaker 2: still struggling with racial inequality and gender inequality in this country,
Speaker 2: and it's because like, not enough work has been done yet.
Speaker 2: People have not heard enough and change has not heard
Speaker 2: have been made enough for that. And that wasn't just
Speaker 2: because of people listening to the status quote. That's because
Speaker 2: people are speaking up. So I choose to interpret my
Speaker 2: response into being doing stuff like this. You do what
Speaker 2: you want. Man, If you think that this kind of
Speaker 2: stuff is good and you want to join the fight,
Speaker 2: that's great. But in my opinion, right, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: neutrality always favors the oppressor. And so I'm not going
Speaker 2: to be neutral. I choose to make a stand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And neutrality is a choice. Like people say, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't. I don't want to choose. No,
Speaker 1: you've chosen by being neutral. You're saying I'm fine with
Speaker 1: the statis quote.
Speaker 7: Well, I didn't say neutral forever, but I think in
Speaker 7: a given time it's okay. And so one till I
Speaker 7: figure out where I want to stand, I can sort
Speaker 7: of not.
Speaker 2: I agree it's necessary and important for you to take
Speaker 2: your time to figure out what you believe. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't want to rush you in any primate process.
Speaker 2: I would never say that's anybody. But at this point,
Speaker 2: for me, right, I know too much, right, like I'm
Speaker 2: I'm too deep in the paint to like you go
Speaker 2: the other direction, you know what I'm saying, Like I
Speaker 2: I at some point I had to I had to
Speaker 2: do that and and and you know that's a personal thing.
Speaker 2: You got to figure out for yourself when it's right
Speaker 2: for you. Right, same thing with like veganism. I've talked
Speaker 2: about this. At some point I was debating at so
Speaker 2: much in my head. I just had to figure out
Speaker 2: where I was at with it, and I made my choice.
Speaker 2: I think that's true for a lot of social issues.
Speaker 2: People just eventually have to figure it out. But yeah, man,
Speaker 2: you know, go on your journey, figure shit out. But
Speaker 2: I will tell you what I think, right, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I think some stuff
Speaker 2: is better than other stuff, and I'll tell you. But anyway,
Speaker 2: I think that's a battle. The time that we got
Speaker 2: musical instruments, was there anything else you want to add
Speaker 2: before we let you go?
Speaker 7: No, you pretty well. You've some it up well. And
Speaker 7: I think what I take from this is it's not
Speaker 7: just about because I was perceiving it as just religion
Speaker 7: the versus the other side, meaning organized religion. But you
Speaker 7: would encourage me to be skeptical in all the ideas
Speaker 7: I think Jamie said supernatural and some other words.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything that requires magical thinking that isn't based in
Speaker 1: what can be evidenced in the natural world in reality,
Speaker 1: I find that the type of thinking that is necessary
Speaker 1: to go down that road can be warped and used
Speaker 1: and exploited, two extremely nefarious ends.
Speaker 7: Excellent, Okay, I understand what you're saying. Thank you all
Speaker 7: very much, and have a great day.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Musical Instruments, and I hope you
Speaker 2: have a great day as well. What a fucking fucking
Speaker 2: cush car. What an excellent call right there.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, good ones, good ones around it out.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that every call we've had today has
Speaker 1: been good. They've all been very useful.
Speaker 2: That was That was my favorite. And here's why, because
Speaker 2: Musical Instruments and we talked to him before. That is
Speaker 2: an honest, fucking man. Right, He's got some fucking doubts
Speaker 2: about us atheists, and he tells us, and he tells
Speaker 2: us in the best way possible. And you know what
Speaker 2: we have is our job to answer that responsibly. We
Speaker 2: cannot be authoritarian in our response. No we can't. We
Speaker 2: can't be like, hey, you have to say Christian Christianity
Speaker 2: is bad or you're a bad person. That's too simplicity.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna work because we're doing the same thing
Speaker 2: that we are criticizing other people. Right. We have to
Speaker 2: help people navigate that experience so that they can come
Speaker 2: to that conclusion themselves, because otherwise, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: And we will always be willing to change our change
Speaker 1: our point of view. If if if again, if the
Speaker 1: evidence if reality. I mean, I've held terrible opinions in
Speaker 1: the past. I look back on myself as a younger manager,
Speaker 1: you bloody idiot, and I'm glad I had the intellectual honesty,
Speaker 1: to a flexibility of mind to go yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: should stop believing that and move forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah. If there's one thing I've been saying for years,
Speaker 2: and it's something that I hold to more than anything
Speaker 2: else that I've ever talked about on any program, it
Speaker 2: is you can be right and you can be convincing.
Speaker 2: But those are two separate things, Okay, two separate things.
Speaker 2: You have to think about that every time you communicate
Speaker 2: your message to people, because you can be right till
Speaker 2: the cows come home. You can be right on every
Speaker 2: single issue, But if I don't fucking believe you, then
Speaker 2: what's the point, Right, why are we talking? Why are
Speaker 2: you communicating ideas if you're not convincing other people as
Speaker 2: to why you hold the position that you do. We can't,
Speaker 2: we cannot just be a top down about this stuff
Speaker 2: every single time, because we got to show people how
Speaker 2: we got there. Right, You've got to walk it through
Speaker 2: with people, because if you're honest with yourself, for most
Speaker 2: of us, at least for me, you had to have
Speaker 2: your own journey man, Right, Yeah, So don't don't let
Speaker 2: people have fucking journeys with it. But don't compromise in
Speaker 2: your own position either. Don't just say what you think
Speaker 2: they need to hear, uh and change your own mind
Speaker 2: on something either, Right, don't don't don't be against your
Speaker 2: own principles. But you still got to recognize where people
Speaker 2: are at and meet them, meet them where they can
Speaker 2: hear what you're saying. Anyway, I'm going on a rant here,
Speaker 2: but you know that's my feelings, my feelings about Jamie.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: That being said, we are getting towards the end of
Speaker 2: tonight's program. Thanks so much for watching be Shore to
Speaker 2: tune into the Atheist Experience later today if you like,
Speaker 2: and of course showing an episode of the Nonprofits of Between.
Speaker 2: But hey, uh, the super Chat challenge. We didn't get
Speaker 2: to it today. That's okay. Next time, maybe we can
Speaker 2: make uh uh, you know, Jamie do his thing. I'd
Speaker 2: be down to see that. But thank you to everybody
Speaker 2: who donated regardless, and remember that this week's prompt is
Speaker 2: going to be as soon as I can find it,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you because I don't see it on here.
Speaker 1: If The New Testament was a comedy, I would end.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's been a missince
Speaker 2: I've been on talking to and I and I and
Speaker 2: the script is different from the from the truth wanted one,
Speaker 2: and I get confused on my notes. So thank you, Jamie.
Speaker 2: I literally had to have a blind person tell me
Speaker 2: where what the prompt was on the page, which is
Speaker 2: not a good look for me, but you did it
Speaker 2: for me anyway, Jamie, Thanks for that.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: We'll love that. We'll talk about that more on the
Speaker 2: Dan and Jamie podcast, now premiering live every Sun. Sat.
Speaker 2: Saturn Day is the day in between Saturday and Sunday
Speaker 2: only on TikTok for Americans, so that'd be really cool. Okay,
Speaker 2: So I want to thank Richard of course for hanging
Speaker 2: out today and uh, you know, being our backup host
Speaker 2: giving me nods of approval and stern stern shakes of
Speaker 2: the head note for disapprovals, especially for ACA related funds
Speaker 2: and donations, and what we can and can't do is
Speaker 2: an organization. I really appreciate that keeping me in line.
Speaker 2: Of course, want to thank Jamie and my co host today,
Speaker 2: thanks so much, and I'll win.
Speaker 1: I'll crew too. I mean, we we're quite front snogums
Speaker 1: and there's a score of people behind the scenes making
Speaker 1: it possible for us to do this.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, awesome, amazing crew. Look how many people are
Speaker 2: here today, all showed up doing their thing. An amazing
Speaker 2: amount of hair in various locations, mustaches, beards, sometimes in
Speaker 2: not places either. It's a lot of stuff going on
Speaker 2: with the hair with our crew, really good stuff.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 2: Uh, I think I've read all the super chats. I
Speaker 2: think we're good for that. I think we still are
Speaker 2: having a after show today, right, that's happening. Yep, Richard says, yes,
Speaker 2: So go check out after show A tiny dout cc
Speaker 2: slash a CD discord to joint to see the fan
Speaker 2: run show that happens for the talking even after show.
Speaker 2: And with that, do you want to give some love rings? Jamie,
Speaker 2: you want to do the honors?
Speaker 1: Love many love.
Speaker 2: Look at that. It's coming at Richard's nose. Love snot
Speaker 2: take it there. Yeah, it's it's really cool. If if
Speaker 2: you ever yeah, listen this a audio and you wonder
Speaker 2: what the heck that happens there. It's just a cool
Speaker 2: little effect that happens visually. I don't know if that
Speaker 2: ever translates well to the audio audience of our show,
Speaker 2: but that's what's happening. So just remember, folks as we
Speaker 2: close out science broadcast. If you don't believe, this is
Speaker 2: your community and we appreciate you being here. And if
Speaker 2: you do.
Speaker 1: Believe, I don't hate you, which is not convinced.
Speaker 2: Thanks, get everybody, have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 1: We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted live Friday
Speaker 1: at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y
Speaker 1: t tw and call into the show at five one
Speaker 1: two
Speaker 2: Two, or connect to the show online at tiny dot
Speaker 2: cc slash call tw