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<v Speaker 1>What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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<v Speaker 1>where we left off with Kathy Rumler and her interview

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<v Speaker 1>with Congress. Question. Were you shocked at all that mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein was granted pretty compassionate work release? Answer? I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know anything about the circumstances of that, you know, I didn't. Certainly,

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<v Speaker 1>compassionate release in law enforcement circles has a particular it

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<v Speaker 1>has a very specific meaning, and it typically has to

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<v Speaker 1>do with poor health or something like that. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>understand it to be anything along those lines. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>that the state, you know, ultimately this was a state

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<v Speaker 1>resolution that the federal government, you know, the federal government

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<v Speaker 1>had made a decision not to prosecute him, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was a state resolution. And the inference that I drew

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<v Speaker 1>as a former federal prosecutor is that they reached the

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<v Speaker 1>conclusion that he wasn't, you know, some kind of threat

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<v Speaker 1>to the community. And again, that was also something that

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<v Speaker 1>was consistent with someone who the evidence showed didn't intentionally

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<v Speaker 1>target miners for sex. So it was just another factor,

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<v Speaker 1>if you will, that again, drawing on my experience, suggested

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<v Speaker 1>to me that this case was a case in which

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<v Speaker 1>he was, you know, he was a customer of a

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<v Speaker 1>prostitution customer. Question thank you, mister Emmer. We've had another

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<v Speaker 1>member join. Can he please announce himself for the record. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Congressman Christian Menefee, Texas eighteen. Mister Grant, Thank you, sir.

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<v Speaker 1>Question switching gears a little bit. We're coming towards the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the first hour here. Have you ever met

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<v Speaker 1>Glaine Maxwell? Answer yes. Question when did you first meet

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<v Speaker 1>Glaine Maxwell? Answer? I've only met her once. The context

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<v Speaker 1>of the meeting was that she was involved in civil

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<v Speaker 1>litigation and her lawyer there was either the litigation was

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<v Speaker 1>in New York, and her lawyer there was some type

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<v Speaker 1>of proceeding in the case, and as is very calm

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<v Speaker 1>in practice, her lawyer asked whether she could they could

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<v Speaker 1>use a conference room as a professional courtesy at my

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<v Speaker 1>law firm, because her lawyer didn't have an office in

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<v Speaker 1>New York, and so when they came to us to

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<v Speaker 1>use the conference room, I went by to say hello

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<v Speaker 1>as a professional courtesy. Question. Did mister Epstein inform you

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<v Speaker 1>that she would have a lawyer reaching out to you? Answer? No.

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<v Speaker 1>The lawyer had asked again. Her lawyer had asked whether

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<v Speaker 1>she could use a conference room at my law firm

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<v Speaker 1>as a professional courtesy, and of course I said yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and roughly when was this? Answer gosh, I don't remember.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't remember what year it was. Question were you

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<v Speaker 1>aware of miss Maxwell's relationship with mister Epstein at the time? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I knew that he knew her, and I knew that

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<v Speaker 1>she had been the subject of public allegations at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>but I didn't know anything about, you know, what his

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<v Speaker 1>relationship was with her. Question did mister Epstein discuss those

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<v Speaker 1>public allegations of miss Maxwell with you? Answer about miss Maxwell,

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<v Speaker 1>there were yes, in so far as they were part

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<v Speaker 1>of a set of allegations that were made by a

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<v Speaker 1>woman who said she had been victimized by Epstein and

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<v Speaker 1>many others. So they were all related to allegations put

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<v Speaker 1>forth by you know, one victim, and the allegations were extensive.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and did mister Epstein discuss those allegations with you? Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>he did to the extent that there were media inquiries

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<v Speaker 1>around arising from those allegations. So it was in the

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<v Speaker 1>context of media inquiries that he, you know, he talked

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<v Speaker 1>to me about it and asked my point of view

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<v Speaker 1>about it. Question and did he explain any of the

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<v Speaker 1>details or facts to you or try to make a

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<v Speaker 1>case to you of why they were or were not true? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>He just told me that they weren't true. There wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>quite you know, just quite unequivocally. Question and then other

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<v Speaker 1>than this one time miss Maxwell used the office at

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<v Speaker 1>your law firm, did you have any other interaction with

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Maxwell? Answer no question. Any other communications answer no question,

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<v Speaker 1>meetings answer no question. Were you aware that mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>regularly entertain young women at his residences? Answer entertained. No question.

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<v Speaker 1>When around mister Epstein, how did mister Epstein act towards

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<v Speaker 1>the young women or girls that were around them? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I never saw any girls. I never saw any girls

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<v Speaker 1>around them at all. If you by that you mean

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<v Speaker 1>anyone under the age of eighteen. Question any young women

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<v Speaker 1>at all, twenties, low thirties. Answer well, I wouldn't refer

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<v Speaker 1>to women in their twenties as girls, so I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>trying to be precise as to language. I never saw

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<v Speaker 1>anybody under the age of eighteen in mister Epstein's presence,

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<v Speaker 1>with the exception of a meeting that I was attending

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<v Speaker 1>with my client and my clients one of my client's daughters.

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<v Speaker 1>Question did mister Epstein ever discuss his relationship with young

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<v Speaker 1>women in your presence? Answer? He did not discuss his

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with women. I knew he had a girlfriend that

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<v Speaker 1>I had met on one or two occasions when I

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<v Speaker 1>went to his townhouse for meetings, and his girlfriend was

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<v Speaker 1>the same girlfriend for the entire period of time that

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<v Speaker 1>I knew him. I didn't ask how old she was,

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<v Speaker 1>but to my eyes, she looked about thirty. Question and

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<v Speaker 1>who was that girlfriend? Answer? Her name was Crinia. I

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<v Speaker 1>can't remember her last name. Question did you ever witness

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein engage at any sexual contact? Answer absolutely not.

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<v Speaker 1>Question did you ever witness mister Epstein have sexual contact

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<v Speaker 1>of any kind with any young woman or girl? Answer no.

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<v Speaker 1>Question Did you ever witness mister Epstein sexually abuse or

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<v Speaker 1>assault young women or girls? Answer no. Question did mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein ever discuss sexual acts of any kind with you?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer no, Mister Fishman, except for what she's already described,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Rumler jumps in, except for the historical conduct that

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<v Speaker 1>led to his guilty plea in Florida. Mister Grant understood. Question.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you ever witness mister Epstein receive a massage from

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<v Speaker 1>a young woman or a girl? Answer no question. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you ever witness mister Epstein pay women for massages? Answer

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<v Speaker 1>no question. Did you ever witness mister Epstein giving cash

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<v Speaker 1>to young women or girls? Answer no question. Did you

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<v Speaker 1>ever hear about mister Epstein receiving massages? Answer no other

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<v Speaker 1>than what we previously talked about the conduct arising to

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<v Speaker 1>his that gave rise to the guilty plea. Question did

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein ever discuss getting massages? Answer no other than

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<v Speaker 1>again what he told me about the conduct that caused

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<v Speaker 1>them that forced him to plead guilty in two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and eight? Question did you ever receive a massage from

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<v Speaker 1>any young woman or girl brought to you by or

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<v Speaker 1>introduce to you by mister Epstein? Answer absolutely not. Question

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<v Speaker 1>have you ever been contacted by any law enforcement agency

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<v Speaker 1>concerning Jeffrey Epstein or Glaine Maxwell? Answer no question. Have

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<v Speaker 1>you ever been interviewed by any law enforcement agency concerning

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell? Answer no question. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>ever provided any information to law enforcement agencies concerning Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein or Glean Maxwell. Answer no question. Did Jeffrey Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>ever inform you or represent to you that he was

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<v Speaker 1>working with intelligent services of any nation, including the United States?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer no question. Did Glenn Maxwell ever inform you or

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<v Speaker 1>represent to you that she was working with any intelligence

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<v Speaker 1>service of any nation, including the United States? Answer no question.

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<v Speaker 1>During your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein or Glaine Maxwell, did

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<v Speaker 1>you ever suspect either of them being affiliated with any

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence agency? Answer? I had no relationship with Glenn Maxwell.

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<v Speaker 1>The answer to both of them is no question. And

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<v Speaker 1>at any time have you had an affiliation with any

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence agency? Answer well, by affiliation, I was White House

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<v Speaker 1>counsel and a senior Justice Department official. In that capacity,

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<v Speaker 1>I dealt with the d and I, the CIA, and

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<v Speaker 1>the NSA, NDOD. Question but did you formally work answer

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<v Speaker 1>Senate an Intelligence Committee, House Intelligence Committee question? Did you

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<v Speaker 1>not formally work for any of those agencies? Answer? I

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<v Speaker 1>did not know. Now mister Grant jumps in and announces

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<v Speaker 1>that there's another member of Congress that has joined the party.

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<v Speaker 1>That member yassamin and sorry, mister Grant, thank you, and

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<v Speaker 1>that will conclude our first hour redacted. Let's go back

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<v Speaker 1>to the record. Now, it's Jasmine Crockett piping in and

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<v Speaker 1>for the purposes of the record, Representative Jasmine Crockett, Texas

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<v Speaker 1>thirty is present. Mister Lynch, could you please introduce yourself

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<v Speaker 1>for the record, sure, Congressman Steve Lynch, eighth Congressional District

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<v Speaker 1>of Massachusetts. Mister redacted, I just have one note before

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<v Speaker 1>we begin, To the extent that any of our questions

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<v Speaker 1>or your answers contain the names of survivors or their

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<v Speaker 1>identifying information, we would ask that the Majority redact that

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<v Speaker 1>information prior to releasing the transcripts publicly. And with that,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get started. Question by redacted. So, Miss Rumler, in

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<v Speaker 1>the Majority's first hour, you talked a bit about attending

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein's twenty nineteen arraignment and hearing the charges and

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<v Speaker 1>learning about those charges in the indictment. Do you remember

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<v Speaker 1>what those charges were? Answer? I do. In general, it

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<v Speaker 1>was conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking. I believe it

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<v Speaker 1>was two counts. One was conspiracy count and the second

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<v Speaker 1>one was you know what, we would all the substantative

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<v Speaker 1>count of sex trafficking, and in particular, the indictment alleged

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<v Speaker 1>that Epstein had enticed and recruited miners minor girls for

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<v Speaker 1>sex in exchange for cash. Question do you recall what

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<v Speaker 1>he used to entice or recruit those miners? Answer, well,

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<v Speaker 1>not specifically. I don't remember that the indictment was specific

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<v Speaker 1>in that regard. You know, typically for a federal indictment,

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<v Speaker 1>there would need to be some instrumentality of interstate commerce,

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<v Speaker 1>so you know, a phone call, you know, an email

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that, so that certainly would have been present,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in some respect. Question, and at the arrayment

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<v Speaker 1>you were at, the government told the court that mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein's victims were quote initially recruited to provide massages to

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<v Speaker 1>the defendant, which would be a performed nude or partially nude,

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<v Speaker 1>would become increasingly sexual in nature, and would typically include

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<v Speaker 1>one or more sex acts. Does that sound familiar? Answer

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<v Speaker 1>that's consistent with my understanding of what the charge were. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>if I don't remember those specific words. Yes. Question by

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<v Speaker 1>mister Addaktid. I'll now introduce minority Exhibit A, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a February twenty sixteen email between you and mister Epstein.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer yes. Question mister Epstein asked you quote we all

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<v Speaker 1>set for a day of joy. Answer yes. Question can

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<v Speaker 1>you read for the record what you responded to mister Epstein.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer yes, I said best massage ever, but not your

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<v Speaker 1>kind of massage, and he replied shame. Answer yeah. Question.

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<v Speaker 1>By February twenty sixteen, were you aware that mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>had used massage appointments to entrap girls and women that

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<v Speaker 1>he victimized? Answer what I understood. You know, as I

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<v Speaker 1>stated this morning, I certainly knew that he had pled

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<v Speaker 1>guilty to two prostitution related offenses and that those that

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<v Speaker 1>those involved that conduct involves sexualized massages. What I understood

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<v Speaker 1>about the nature and scope of that conduct was that

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<v Speaker 1>the vast majority of the women who had engaged in

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<v Speaker 1>this activity with mister Epstein were over the age of eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>that some small number had turned out to be under

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<v Speaker 1>the age of eighteen, but he had believed them to

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<v Speaker 1>be over the age of eighteen. Question let's pause for

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<v Speaker 1>a second, and that's where we're gonna pause as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the next episode dealing with the issue, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna pick up where we left off. All the information

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<v Speaker 1>that goes with this episode can be found in the

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<v Speaker 1>description box,