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<v Speaker 1>You're probably familiar, especially if you watch the nonprofits, which

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<v Speaker 1>you should, about some of the arguments that take place

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<v Speaker 1>over the banning of books, whether it be because of

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<v Speaker 1>sexually explicit material or some other mature content. But what

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<v Speaker 1>happens when that policy backfires on the Bible? Incest, sexual assault,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of other really bad stuff happening. Steven is

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<v Speaker 1>here to take us away on this article about this subject.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks Jimmy. Yeah. Republican lawmakers in Texas can't seem to

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<v Speaker 2>follow the law even when they're the ones writing it.

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty three, Texas past House Bill nine hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>banning sexually explicit books from schools. This led Kenyon Independent

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<v Speaker 2>School District to quietly pull the Bible from library shelves,

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<v Speaker 2>likely due to the graphic depiction of violence and sexuality

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<v Speaker 2>within its covers. When this development surfaced in December of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four, the bill's sponsor, Republican Representative Jared Patterson,

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<v Speaker 2>was livid. He accused the superintendent of misinterpreting the law,

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<v Speaker 2>dismissed any claims of explicit content in the Bible, and

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<v Speaker 2>demanded its immediate reinstatement. Patterson implied ulterior motives behind the decision,

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<v Speaker 2>but provided no rationale as to why this specific book

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<v Speaker 2>should be immune to the very standards that he helped enact. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>as a result, Republicans' favorite Bronze age sex manual is

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<v Speaker 2>back on shelves for children to read without any explanation

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<v Speaker 2>from why as to why it gets exempt from their

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<v Speaker 2>own law.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>This story is from The Friendly Atheist by Hemmett Meta

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<v Speaker 1>on December twenty third, twenty twenty four. Boy, we love

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<v Speaker 1>Hemmett Meta. We love the Friendly Atheist. I think we

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<v Speaker 1>have an article from him on every episode. So thanks,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for stocking our content with good stuff. And that

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<v Speaker 1>was a great intro. You know, I want to know

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<v Speaker 1>why so in this article the superintendent, in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 1>took the right course of action by standardizing the policy

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<v Speaker 1>to all books. Right, but then they reversed the reversed course.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't reverse course? And Steven, I want to get your

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<v Speaker 1>take on that. You know, what, what the hell happened?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, we were doing so good, we were doing

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<v Speaker 3>so good.

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<v Speaker 4>What happened there?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Like like anytime you see a career politician pressuring

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<v Speaker 2>a career educator, you know that you are living in

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<v Speaker 2>a time that is devoted to ignorance and controlling the masses,

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<v Speaker 2>like as like the like. A lot of the information

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<v Speaker 2>that has surfaced in this issue was the result of, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this snippet of an email got shared, so then that

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<v Speaker 2>resulted in this part of an email getting shared back

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<v Speaker 2>and forth. So we don't we don't know the full context.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have the play by play by play, but

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<v Speaker 2>as best as we can tell, you know, I guess

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<v Speaker 2>a parent wanted to know why the Bible wasn't on

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<v Speaker 2>the shelves in their child's library, and that question got

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<v Speaker 2>forwarded to the superintendent. The superintendent said, hey, sorry, like

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this is the new law that was passed

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<v Speaker 2>saying sexually explicit books can't be on ourselves. If you

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<v Speaker 2>don't like it, you know, I'm sorry. This is out

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<v Speaker 2>of my hands. But here's our Republican representative. He's the

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<v Speaker 2>one who passed this bill. He or at least the

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<v Speaker 2>one who sponsored the bill. That's why we're in this,

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<v Speaker 2>this gosh darn situation that we're in. Shucks, But don't worry.

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<v Speaker 2>We've got lots of partner in churches where we can

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<v Speaker 2>supply your kids with Bibles.

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<v Speaker 4>What the fuck.

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<v Speaker 2>And so when the question got brought to the politician

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<v Speaker 2>as to why are you saying that the Bible shouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>be in schools, that's when he went off and said,

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<v Speaker 2>what the fudge are you talking about? Of course the

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<v Speaker 2>Bible needs to be in there, because the Bible is

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<v Speaker 2>protected by these laws, and just did not did not,

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<v Speaker 2>in any way whatsoever address the problem that this book

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<v Speaker 2>is full of all this vile, reprehensible, sexually explicit content.

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<v Speaker 2>Just said it did not exist. It shows that he

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<v Speaker 2>has no idea what exactly is in the Bible. Accused

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<v Speaker 2>the superintendent of not understanding the law and just said, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I did the right thing, and you are the one

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<v Speaker 2>who is acting sus.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I read the law, and I read the letter

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<v Speaker 1>from from Jared Patterson, and you know, Patterson doesn't even

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<v Speaker 1>know the law. I mean, let's not forget. Yeah, he

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't know what's in the Bible to be so curious

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<v Speaker 1>as to why I got removed. But the law doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>even say that the Bible must be in uh must

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<v Speaker 1>be in the library at the school. It actually says

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<v Speaker 1>religious literature. And if you're going to remove sexually explicit

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<v Speaker 1>religious literature, you can do that and still or excuse me,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're going to take snippets out of the literature,

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<v Speaker 1>you can still have the literature in the book or

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<v Speaker 1>in the library and not have those explicit. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you could comply with the law and with people's faith.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's partly what they did too, Like he pointed

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<v Speaker 2>out the fact that, yeah, we don't have the Bible

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<v Speaker 2>as a whole on the shelves, but we still have

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<v Speaker 2>this book, this book, this book, this book in this book.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think I think that the superintendent completely folded.

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<v Speaker 1>One parent wrote a letter, the Patterson flipped out, probably

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<v Speaker 1>because he wants to look good to his constituents, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the the superintendent completely folded. Helen, Who are you

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<v Speaker 1>more aghast at Jared Patterson or the superintendent who completely

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<v Speaker 1>reverse course when we were doing so good?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh definitely the superintendent. Okay, definitely, because Patterson's doing like

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<v Speaker 4>he he's a religious weirdo and he wants a super

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<v Speaker 4>special book, and his super special book is super important him.

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<v Speaker 4>Anythings everybody should read and believe in his super special book.

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<v Speaker 4>So fine, and so I'm not surprised at this. I'm

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<v Speaker 4>more angry at the superintendent because they were following the law.

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<v Speaker 4>They were like, okay, like do you ban these books?

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<v Speaker 4>You ban sexually explicit content. The Bible has sexually explicit content.

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<v Speaker 4>Is there's sexual there's sexual assault, there's insists like you know,

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<v Speaker 4>we can go on and on. So when you like,

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<v Speaker 4>I don't want my kids to read I wouldn't want like,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, junior high kids reading that, you know, and

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<v Speaker 4>without some contexts you know, included. But again they were

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<v Speaker 4>like okay, you know what. No, And then with a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit of pressure and threatened, and that's with legal action.

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<v Speaker 4>He was like, yeah, I'm going to reverse course. And

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<v Speaker 4>I'm just gonna say this super this super book, the

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<v Speaker 4>super Special book, because Patterson's like his panties in a twist,

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<v Speaker 4>has to remain on the shelf. And I hate this

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<v Speaker 4>because I hate hypocrisy. It drives me crazy, and like

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<v Speaker 4>and and the thing that drives me even more crazy,

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<v Speaker 4>like Lord forbid, pun intended that they read like things

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<v Speaker 4>like to Kill a Mockingbird. You know, no I read

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<v Speaker 4>that book. Had to read the Super Special, like the

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<v Speaker 4>Super Special book that's full of all these horrible things.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's not even a good Bronze age sex manual.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sure there were way better bronze age sex man

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<v Speaker 4>a littles that were written than the Bible, ready, damn sure.

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<v Speaker 4>So yeah, not not a fan of the superintendent because

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<v Speaker 4>I hate hypocrisy and he was doing what he was

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<v Speaker 4>told to do and then he cowtailed, and that just

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<v Speaker 4>it's gross and that's that's that's how I feel.

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<v Speaker 2>In two he was named Superintendent of the Year just so.

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<v Speaker 1>While he probably wanted to keep that status by not

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<v Speaker 1>angering some of the more Christian and right leaning UH

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<v Speaker 1>parents and school board members and members of the community

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<v Speaker 1>in general, because this is Texas after all, you know, Tracy,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to get your take the the back and

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<v Speaker 1>forth between.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh the governor.

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<v Speaker 1>It was governor, right, am?

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<v Speaker 2>I am?

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<v Speaker 3>I right about that?

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<v Speaker 1>No, Patterson, Who the hell is Patterson.

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<v Speaker 4>He's a he's a state representative.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, right, right? So the back and forth between Patterson

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<v Speaker 1>and the superintendent. Is Patterson playing dumb about his book

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<v Speaker 1>or is there you know something else that's going on

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<v Speaker 1>about here?

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<v Speaker 3>So Patterson, Sorry, I've lost track of who Patterson was.

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<v Speaker 3>So Patterson Patterson, I see, I see, Yeah, he's the

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<v Speaker 3>one who wrote the letter. I had his letter pulled

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<v Speaker 3>up and I forgot who he was. So I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think that Jared Patterson is playing anything. I think he

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<v Speaker 3>genuinely doesn't know because it's easy. Many people will follow

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<v Speaker 3>the faith and not read their text. So it's really

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<v Speaker 3>easy to not know about Lot and his daughters because

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<v Speaker 3>they don't bring that up very much, you know. I

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<v Speaker 3>I think that it's just a case of special pleading

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<v Speaker 3>that they want to get their thing in. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>matter by what method, and they don't want things that

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<v Speaker 3>they disapprove of to go in, and it doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 3>by what method they want. It's just this constant thing

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<v Speaker 3>of I want my way, and my way is the

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<v Speaker 3>way it's going to happen, and we're not going to

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<v Speaker 3>do anything other than exactly the way I want it

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<v Speaker 3>to happen. If I were to go approach the world

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<v Speaker 3>that way, I would never get my way. Ever, I

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<v Speaker 3>would never have any friends.

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<v Speaker 1>You should run to the president.

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<v Speaker 3>You need to be able to compromise at a certain

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<v Speaker 3>level here, like To Kill a Mockingbird. I read that book. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it has a few disturbing passages in it, a few

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<v Speaker 3>disturbing words, but it's not an unpalatable book. The scene

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<v Speaker 3>with Lot and his daughters is thoroughly unpa palatable to me.

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<v Speaker 3>So clearly it's a matter of opinion, and their opinion

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<v Speaker 3>is that they're fine reading about Lot and his daughters,

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<v Speaker 3>but reading about Antebellum South is just too much. And

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<v Speaker 3>I don't really they seem just to be babies and

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<v Speaker 3>to be throwing their hands up in the air, and like,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't like these books, but my favorite book is

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<v Speaker 3>just like them. It's just a classic case of whining

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<v Speaker 3>and poor me.

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<v Speaker 1>So, you know, this reminds me of the article that

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<v Speaker 1>we discussed on Monday, when we talked about you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people wanting what they want and they don't care who

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<v Speaker 1>it impacts, right, you know, the system is only good

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<v Speaker 1>when the system operates that way for them, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think that that is what we're seeing. You know, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a legislator who supported this policy, and when the

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<v Speaker 1>policy turned around to bite him in the ass, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he kind of just irately pointed the finger at the

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<v Speaker 1>intent superintendent who is just following the rules, and then

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<v Speaker 1>the superintendent due to the same political pressures by his community,

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<v Speaker 1>because let's face it, Pattison wants to get re elected,

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<v Speaker 1>so he's got to be a champion of the religious right.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what's his name.

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<v Speaker 1>The superintendent doesn't want to make any waves, so he

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<v Speaker 1>just falls right in line. And you know, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that this is a dangerous mixing of state and education, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that the church should be anywhere near

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<v Speaker 1>our education or our public school system. And for this reason,

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<v Speaker 1>because now you know, there's there's a way of the

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<v Speaker 1>church kind of infecting the political system.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Steven, what are.

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<v Speaker 1>Your thoughts on what seems to be a career politician

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<v Speaker 1>putting his own political pressure onto the school system.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's it bothers me. It disgusts me, because like

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<v Speaker 2>it's one thing to say, well, the guy's got to

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<v Speaker 2>get elected, he's got to look after himself, right, But

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<v Speaker 2>when you're in that position, and especially like if this

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<v Speaker 2>is something that just comes up every time that I

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<v Speaker 2>get the honor of being on this show, is when

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<v Speaker 2>it affects children. Nothing hurts me more than when people

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<v Speaker 2>like this put their own agendas above the well being

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<v Speaker 2>of children. And if you are saying, well, I got

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<v Speaker 2>to look after I got to get reelected, so I

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<v Speaker 2>need to please this, uh, this this portion of the

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<v Speaker 2>population and in order to please them, I need to

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<v Speaker 2>screw over these children metaphorically speaking like that, Just that

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<v Speaker 2>just hits me hard, because if we are not taking

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<v Speaker 2>care of our children, if we are not looking after

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<v Speaker 2>their best interest, what is going to become of this world?

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<v Speaker 2>We don't we don't have unlimited time here, like they

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<v Speaker 2>know that, But the difference is that we're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>protect our time here and our children are our most vulnerable,

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<v Speaker 2>most valuable resource, and for us to put political agendas

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<v Speaker 2>ahead of their well being, their understanding of the world,

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<v Speaker 2>it is just the most despicable, dare I say evil

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<v Speaker 2>kind of choice that someone can be making, and it

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<v Speaker 2>just itles me.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think evil is an inappropriate term, because I

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<v Speaker 1>think when push comes to show of a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>pol Titians will cling to the the power, the drug

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<v Speaker 1>of power, by any means necessary, and it's almost like

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<v Speaker 1>they can't even help themselves. And this may very well

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<v Speaker 1>be a case like that, especially when you see the

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<v Speaker 1>power dynamics of the religious right in this country now.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do digress a little bit. I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of get Helen's take, because you know, Helen, we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about the explicit nature of Latin's Daughters for example,

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<v Speaker 1>and the many other things that are in this book.

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<v Speaker 1>You have, I know, a lot of opinions on sexuality.

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<v Speaker 1>For all of our viewers who aren't aware, you can

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<v Speaker 1>go back and check out episodes of Secular Sexuality. You'll

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<v Speaker 1>find Helen on there. Helen, you have mentioned before that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you came out as queer earlier in your life.

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<v Speaker 1>You've got some opinions on sexuality. So what makes something

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<v Speaker 1>sexually explicit?

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<v Speaker 4>So the way I'm like at is that things that

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<v Speaker 4>are sexually explicit, so we as adults understand the complexities

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<v Speaker 4>and the nuances of human sexuality. Children do not. Okay,

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<v Speaker 4>but that doesn't mean you can't teach children about sex.

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<v Speaker 4>You can expose them to Hey, two men. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes you know, women and men like each other, and

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes you know, people have different the same gender like

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<v Speaker 4>each other and they fall in love. Like, this isn't

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<v Speaker 4>sexually explicit. This is just you know, people being in relationships.

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<v Speaker 4>And guess what that happens all the time. So there's

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<v Speaker 4>a we know what the line is. You know, we

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<v Speaker 4>understand how through science, everybody how psychologically you know, we

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<v Speaker 4>developed from childhood development, childhood psychology into pre prebeussens through puberty,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, adolescents into adulthood. We know the track record

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<v Speaker 4>of that. And teaching appropriate educational you know, with science

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<v Speaker 4>backed information about sexuality, about gender, sexual preference, consent would

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<v Speaker 4>be really great teach you know, how to keep how

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<v Speaker 4>do you keep yourself to even teaching kids like bodily autonomy,

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<v Speaker 4>like you can't just go up and like, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>touch somebody. You need to ask first and you get

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<v Speaker 4>to negotiate how there was you teach that to like

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<v Speaker 4>a a five year old, like there has to be

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<v Speaker 4>that available. And as a queer person, I know what

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<v Speaker 4>like because of my own understanding, you know, development and

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<v Speaker 4>different understanding of these things. When when you live in

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<v Speaker 4>a very her normative world and you're seen as the

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<v Speaker 4>deviant because your sexuality is not towing a certain line,

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<v Speaker 4>you you kind of question, especially when you start coming

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<v Speaker 4>out and you're developing your sexuality, You go, am I

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<v Speaker 4>the dB in, Am I doing something wrong? But then

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<v Speaker 4>when you realize you really, no, I'm not sexually exploiting children.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not exposing children to pornography. I am not doing

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<v Speaker 4>a sort of grooming or anything like that. I'm just

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<v Speaker 4>existing as a queer person in the world. That's a difference.

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<v Speaker 4>But the thing is, though, is that people that haven't

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<v Speaker 4>had this education. Again we're talking about lack of education

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<v Speaker 4>of normal development of sexuality. They one think that it's

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<v Speaker 4>not so much the Bible, it is queerness. It is people,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, margin you know, people of color, people that

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<v Speaker 4>don't fit says white Hero Anglo Saxon. Bullshit. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>that's that is the message. It hasn't because if you

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<v Speaker 4>really wanted to say that sexually explicit materials should not

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<v Speaker 4>be involved in schools, then you would be in the

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<v Speaker 4>Bible because you would read it and go, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 4>like like a ten year old cannot read this, Like

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<v Speaker 4>why should a ten year old read about intests? Like kids,

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<v Speaker 4>they're gonna ask questions, and it's because they don't. They one,

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<v Speaker 4>they haven't read their own book, you know, yeah, a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of times they haven't. They don't know those stories

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<v Speaker 4>are in there.

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<v Speaker 3>I know, And you know what I think.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like it makes more sense for the representative

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<v Speaker 1>Patterson to support or for these parents, these fundamentalist Christian

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<v Speaker 1>parents out there that have a problem with this, It

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<v Speaker 1>almost makes more sense for them to support the parts

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<v Speaker 1>that are removed, and to have the abbreviated Bible. You

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<v Speaker 1>know that seemed in the past to work for Christianity. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't expect them to know that because they don't

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<v Speaker 1>know anything about their religion or its history of where

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<v Speaker 1>it comes from. So I think that, you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>really had a problem in this article because the representative

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<v Speaker 1>only received one complaint and then turned around and used

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<v Speaker 1>the superintendent of open hostility. And I really don't respect

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<v Speaker 1>the way that the superintendent responded.

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<v Speaker 2>Tracy.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to get your take on how should the

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<v Speaker 1>superintendent have responded. What would have been your response had

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<v Speaker 1>you been in this position.

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<v Speaker 3>So what I'm going to tell you, Jimmy, is concerning

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<v Speaker 3>what mister Patterson said. If you look up Chapter twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 3>Section twenty eight point h two of the Texas Education Code,

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<v Speaker 3>it does not require that the Bible be there. It

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<v Speaker 3>requires that the Bible be taught about. It has not

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<v Speaker 3>required that the children can be given access to it.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't see where he's getting that there's an exemption

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<v Speaker 3>for the Bible to be allowed to be given to

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<v Speaker 3>these children. I don't I haven't read the house built

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<v Speaker 3>nine hundred in its entirety. But if it says what

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<v Speaker 3>I've been led to believe, it says sexually explicit material

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<v Speaker 3>and violence and things of this nature, which we can

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<v Speaker 3>go in to defining those all you want, but it

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<v Speaker 3>seems pretty open and shut. The Bible in its entirety

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<v Speaker 3>should not be allowed. Now, the Bible, not everybody knows this.

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<v Speaker 3>This mister Patterson may not know it. The Bible is

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<v Speaker 3>not one book. The Bible is an anthology of books.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you want to just you know, toss in

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<v Speaker 3>Exodus or toss out whatever, just put in or just

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<v Speaker 3>go through with a black sharpie if you have to

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<v Speaker 3>redact to what you got to do. If you're really

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<v Speaker 3>that desperate to get as much content as you can

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<v Speaker 3>in there, go in with a sharpie. But if you're

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<v Speaker 3>not gonna do any of the leg work on redacting it,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not the super attendant's job. Because one he puts

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<v Speaker 3>in his letter that a parent had contacted him. First

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<v Speaker 3>of all, that's a great that's a great representative. Sorry,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not this representative's job to go complain to the superintendent.

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<v Speaker 3>But it really seems to me.

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<v Speaker 5>That it's just it's a special pleading case because this

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<v Speaker 5>book definitely is knocked out by the HP nine hundred.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, And and you know, I think that this

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<v Speaker 1>article just goes to show why government and religion don't mix. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>the representative should stay out of the the public schools

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<v Speaker 1>operations and stop trying to put religion where it doesn't belong.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know that is something that we believe on

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<v Speaker 1>the ACA is incredibly important to maintaining you know, free

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<v Speaker 1>thought and critical thinking