WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>But I think the language of this sid of produced

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<v Speaker 1>is actually pretty good. There may be adjustments to that

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<v Speaker 1>by some of our democratic colleagues, but I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to let that get in the way of the broader

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<v Speaker 1>progress that's needed by getting clarity to throw it across

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<v Speaker 1>the line.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Fortax.

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<v Speaker 1>Guys.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's be honest, the crypto market has been moving sideways

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<v Speaker 2>for a while now. A lot of people are just

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<v Speaker 2>sitting on their coins waiting for the next big move.

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<v Speaker 2>But while you're waiting, your crypto is just sitting in

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<v Speaker 2>your wallet doing absolutely nothing. That's why I want to

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<v Speaker 2>mention one of my longtime partners, fortasx. Instead of just

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<v Speaker 2>letting your assets sit idle, you can put supported cryptocurrencies

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<v Speaker 2>into fortest x liquidity pools and earn daily rewards while

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<v Speaker 2>still keeping the flexibility to withdraw whenever you want. One

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<v Speaker 2>of the reasons I've continued working with them is because

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<v Speaker 2>they keep delivering. The team is public, they've successfully completed

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<v Speaker 2>Cyberscope team verification, KYC past independent security audits, and the

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<v Speaker 2>platform has been building consistently for years. They focus on

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<v Speaker 2>long term growth, transparency and security rather than hype. In

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<v Speaker 2>a market like this, it makes far more sense to

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<v Speaker 2>have your crypto working for you instead of letting it

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<v Speaker 2>sit idle in your wallet. I've worked with fordest X

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time and if you're planning to hold

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<v Speaker 2>your crypto anyway, I genuinely think it's one of the

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<v Speaker 2>smartest ways to put those assets to work. And folks,

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<v Speaker 2>I know security is very important to all of us

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<v Speaker 2>as we hold our crypto assets and they are fully

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<v Speaker 2>audited by certik and they are SEC registered and much

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<v Speaker 2>more so. You got to check out Fordx. Go to

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<v Speaker 2>Fordax dot fi slash x slash Thinking Crypto link will

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<v Speaker 2>be in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into the Thinking

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<v Speaker 2>Crypto Podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Tony Edward and I'm Amanda Wickcroft and.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining us is Congressman Brian Style, who's a Republican out

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<v Speaker 2>of Wisconsin. He's also the chairman of the Financial Services

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<v Speaker 2>Subcommittee on Digital Assets, Financial Technology, and Artificial Intelligence. Congressman Style,

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<v Speaker 2>great to see, Great to have you.

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<v Speaker 1>Back, Hey, Tony and Manna, thanks for having me on.

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<v Speaker 2>Congressmen, all eyes and ears are tuned into the Clarity Act.

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<v Speaker 2>What can you tell us about the current status of

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<v Speaker 2>this bill? The ethics piece, and all the conversations that

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<v Speaker 2>are happening. It's all good things we're seeing, parguss, but

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<v Speaker 2>what can you tell us where the status is.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in the general view it's darkest before the dawn.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, some people are indicating it might die. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>still optimistic that we get the deal done. We're down

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<v Speaker 1>to a handful of topics that have been now negotiated

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<v Speaker 1>for well over a year. We have an ethics piece,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to discuss interest rates in some of the

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<v Speaker 1>DeFi language that's inside of Clarity. I was always with

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<v Speaker 1>the view that we best served we took the House

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<v Speaker 1>past Clarity bill and simply moved it to the Senate

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<v Speaker 1>for an up or down vote. Of course, the Senate

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<v Speaker 1>wants to put their print on this, that's okay. But

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<v Speaker 1>the key here is that we reach a resolution and

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately get this across the line. Now that there's legislative

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<v Speaker 1>texts down on paper by Republicans in the Senate, I

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<v Speaker 1>think and I'm hopeful that that gives us an opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to finalize the negotiations that are needed to get this

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<v Speaker 1>thing all the way through. Signing the law to really

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<v Speaker 1>unlease the capital to sitting on the sidelines in this space.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you think the ethics agreement will be sufficient for

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<v Speaker 3>the Democrats?

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<v Speaker 1>I think at the end of the day it will be.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I know that Democrats would like to see

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<v Speaker 1>all sorts of bells and whistles associated with that ethics language,

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<v Speaker 1>and there might be tweaks off of the draft just provided.

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<v Speaker 1>On the Senate side, I think people broadly are open

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<v Speaker 1>to looking at what those reforms are. I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>anybody in the space wants bad actors in it, and

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<v Speaker 1>don't want politicians to be profiting off of inside information

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<v Speaker 1>while they're in office. But I think the language of

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<v Speaker 1>this set of produced is actually pretty good. There may

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<v Speaker 1>be adjustments to that by some of our Democratic colleagues,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't want to let that get in the

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<v Speaker 1>way the broader progress that's needed by getting clarity through

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<v Speaker 1>it across the line.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, on the other side of the coin, the banks

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<v Speaker 2>seem to be still fighting on the stable coin, yeald

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<v Speaker 2>side of things. Do you anticipate that might be a

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<v Speaker 2>big hurdle as well?

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<v Speaker 1>In some ways yes, but in some ways no. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this was a lot of the debate we had when

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<v Speaker 1>Genius was originally passed for stable coin legislation, and this

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<v Speaker 1>goes back to an earlier debate. Should we have moved

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<v Speaker 1>a Genius alongside Clarity at the same time. That was

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<v Speaker 1>my view. That's how it played out fair enough. But

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<v Speaker 1>what we often see is when a bill goes through

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<v Speaker 1>followed by a second item, that second item carries negotiations

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<v Speaker 1>from the first one. And that's exactly what we're saying.

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<v Speaker 1>We're seeing negotiations of Genius on the back of the

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<v Speaker 1>Clarity Act, which is frustrating to a lot of us

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<v Speaker 1>when we negotiate what's not in a bill. My hope

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<v Speaker 1>is that that resolution can be reached. I think logical

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<v Speaker 1>minds can agree on this space. Nobody wants to see

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<v Speaker 1>deposit light from our banks. I think the rules and

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<v Speaker 1>regulations are in there to prevent that. But at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, we want to make sure that innovation development

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<v Speaker 1>is occurring here in the United States and making sure,

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<v Speaker 1>in particular on the stable point side, that we have

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<v Speaker 1>a regulatory framework to protect consumers. Stable points were existing

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<v Speaker 1>before Genius, they'll continue to exist after Genius. The differences

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<v Speaker 1>inside this regulatory framework, consumers are significantly protected. That's actually good. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>for consumers, but it's also good for the industry because

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<v Speaker 1>good actors rewarded by operating under this regulatory framework.

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<v Speaker 3>Are members of the Senate and House monitoring the updates

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<v Speaker 3>of crypto legislation that's getting passed in other countries.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, very much so. I actually just had a meeting

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<v Speaker 1>this week with members from the European Union discussing what

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<v Speaker 1>legislation they're looking at. I've had conversations with our colleagues

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<v Speaker 1>places from Chile and Argentina to Japan and South Korea

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<v Speaker 1>as well, and so the whole world in many ways

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<v Speaker 1>is watching what's taking place in the United States. And

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<v Speaker 1>I remember having a conversation with a deputy finance minister

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<v Speaker 1>of one of the major countries in the globe, and

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<v Speaker 1>we had a large conversation and as we left, he

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<v Speaker 1>said to me, Brian in the United States gets clarity done,

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<v Speaker 1>You're going to take a lot of innovation development that's

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<v Speaker 1>occurring in our country and move it to the United

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<v Speaker 1>States of America. And I left and reflected and thought,

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<v Speaker 1>that's in many ways, what we're trying to do is

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<v Speaker 1>policymakers not to take it from other countries per se,

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<v Speaker 1>but to get that innovation development to occur in the US.

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<v Speaker 1>So many crypto developers, both financial capital as well as

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<v Speaker 1>human capital, are still sitting in the sidelines outside the

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<v Speaker 1>United States because policymakers in Washington can't get out of

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<v Speaker 1>their own way by getting the Clarity Act all the

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<v Speaker 1>way done and signing the law.

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<v Speaker 2>Congressman, once this bill passes the Senate and then needs

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<v Speaker 2>to go to the House, do you anticipate there may

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<v Speaker 2>be similar hurdles that the Senate's currently facing in the House,

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<v Speaker 2>or it might be a smooth process because you guys

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<v Speaker 2>got a version of this past last year.

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<v Speaker 1>My hope is that it's a smooth process. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>it will be. Why because we're in the negotiations with

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<v Speaker 1>the Senate. This is a bipartisan by cameral effort to

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<v Speaker 1>get this legislative text done. Again, it's a handful of Democrats,

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<v Speaker 1>so we need to get on board this bill. In

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<v Speaker 1>the United States Senate, they need to get comfort in

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<v Speaker 1>particular as they relates to the ethics provision. We have

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<v Speaker 1>some language we got to get around DeFi as well

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<v Speaker 1>as the interest rate piece, but the broad framework of

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<v Speaker 1>the bill is actually reasonably agreed to. That's what gives

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<v Speaker 1>me my optimism. And then, because this is by camera,

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<v Speaker 1>in these negotiations, in many ways, lots of us are

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<v Speaker 1>at the table. It's my hope that the package that

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<v Speaker 1>the Senate passes is ready for floor action in the House.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to promise that to be the case,

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<v Speaker 1>because we want to read the text and review it,

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<v Speaker 1>but by all means, we're part of this conversation with

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<v Speaker 1>our colleagues of the Senate.

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<v Speaker 2>Quick follow up to that, as part of timeline, I

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<v Speaker 2>heard many people are saying we need to get this

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<v Speaker 2>on by August seventh. I'm assuming past the Senate passed

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<v Speaker 2>the House, and then President Trump can sign in later

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<v Speaker 2>in August if he wants. But is the hard date

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<v Speaker 2>August seventh?

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<v Speaker 1>Last year I said it needed to be done by August,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we've been dragging on this for quite some time.

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<v Speaker 1>So broadly speaking, legislation, as you head into the election

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<v Speaker 1>and there's you know, just over one hundred days between

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<v Speaker 1>now and November three, it just gets harder and harder

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<v Speaker 1>to reach agreements. It shouldn't be, but that's just the reality.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think a lot of us look to

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<v Speaker 1>that August early August deadline as being a reasonable deadline

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<v Speaker 1>for the Senate to act, because then the Senate will

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<v Speaker 1>go home for a handful of weeks and then all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, we're into September and October before the election,

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<v Speaker 1>And what I don't want to do is punt this

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<v Speaker 1>to the backside of the election in a lane duck.

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<v Speaker 1>So hopefully we see these negotiations move quickly. They can,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know the proof will be in the putting

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<v Speaker 1>as we watch the center over the next handful of days.

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<v Speaker 3>What are your thoughts. I'm so curious on Brian Armstrong's

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<v Speaker 3>common or ultimatum. I should say that if clarity doesn't pass,

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<v Speaker 3>he'll just move coinbase offshore.

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<v Speaker 1>Well hopefully that's not the case, but yeah, I'll let

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Armstrong speak for himself. But I think broadly speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of businesses are looking at it that way

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<v Speaker 1>right either businesses that are currently offshore which are on

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<v Speaker 1>the precipice of moving to the US, or worst case scenario,

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<v Speaker 1>businesses that are in the US that will move offshore.

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<v Speaker 1>It is so foolish and so frustrating that we can't

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<v Speaker 1>get this done in across the line, because I think

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<v Speaker 1>big picture, what Brian Armstrong's quote is referencing to is

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of people who want to invest and

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<v Speaker 1>innovate and develop in the United States, but the regulators,

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<v Speaker 1>as controlled by members of Congress, aren't getting the policies

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<v Speaker 1>finalized so that we can unlock this in the US.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I remain concerned not only about maybe his business,

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<v Speaker 1>but the industry large that will go back back into

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<v Speaker 1>the days of really Gary Gensler, and people will be

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<v Speaker 1>moving offshore, developing offshore rather than here in the United

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<v Speaker 1>States under our values.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, we are in a global competition, and I think

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<v Speaker 2>believe it was just this week Russia past crypto legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe the UK is moving their version through the parliament.

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<v Speaker 2>The EU already has theirs in place, and they continue

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<v Speaker 2>to iterate and find tune and so Congressman, hopefully we

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<v Speaker 2>can get this done. It's so critical for jobs and

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<v Speaker 2>innovation and the future of the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I mean this global competition is real. The United

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<v Speaker 1>States in many ways one the Web two race. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's in many ways why we are the global leader

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<v Speaker 1>in the tech space. We need to make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>we maintain that level of dominance as we continue moving

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<v Speaker 1>forward in the Clarity Act is going to be absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>essential to make sure that the US is the epicenter

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<v Speaker 1>of innovation development, in particular in the financial services space.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so curious, also, you've simultaneously been working on Clarity

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<v Speaker 3>as well as the Insider Trading Act. Do you find

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<v Speaker 3>that these two pieces of legislation are complimentary to one

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<v Speaker 3>another with regard to ethics.

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<v Speaker 1>In some ways? I think the Insider Trading Act that

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<v Speaker 1>I just passed, the Stop Insider Trading Act, is really

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<v Speaker 1>a focus and a look at Congress itself. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>broad public concern that members of Congress are getting inside

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<v Speaker 1>information and that might be in a position to leverage that.

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<v Speaker 1>In the financial markets, insider trading is really difficult to enforce.

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<v Speaker 1>It's against the law for anyone, including members of Congress,

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<v Speaker 1>to use inside information and then make a trade. And

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<v Speaker 1>the challenge, of course, is enforcing that. And so my

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<v Speaker 1>solution says, let's just put a blanket ban on members

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<v Speaker 1>of Congress from trading individual shares of stock while they're

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<v Speaker 1>serving in Congress. The bill works that I was glad

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<v Speaker 1>to see it pass with strong bipartisans support yesterday in

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<v Speaker 1>the House. But the Broader Clarity Act is really a

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory framework, but maybe it hits a simil or point

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<v Speaker 1>of let's just have rules of the road that work,

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<v Speaker 1>that we can enforce, that we can show people how

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<v Speaker 1>to do it right. How do we enforce bad actors?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's a general premise of mine that good actors

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<v Speaker 1>in almost any space or any industry, they don't want

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<v Speaker 1>bad actors in that space. And so my hope is

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<v Speaker 1>we can get the Stop Insider Trading Actor across the

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<v Speaker 1>line in the Senate, we can get clarity done as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Does the build cover just stocks or there's a cover

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<v Speaker 2>other assets like I could trade based on information I

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<v Speaker 2>know oil or other commodities, and obviously cryptos has its

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<v Speaker 2>own thing going on, but do you plan to add

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<v Speaker 2>other assets into that umbrella.

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<v Speaker 1>Progress in Washington is often made incrementally, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>think this is a big step forward in the Stop

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<v Speaker 1>Insider Trading Act. I am open to the conversations we've

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<v Speaker 1>been having this with other other types of assets that

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<v Speaker 1>people own. The key here is to get it right.

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<v Speaker 1>As we began kind of exploring some of the commodities,

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<v Speaker 1>talk to some of my colleagues who have family farms,

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<v Speaker 1>and you want to make sure that somebody can, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>hedge their soybean crop. There's nothing wrong with that. It's

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<v Speaker 1>effectively needed. If you're going to be a modern farmer,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't want to just take the price of soybeans

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<v Speaker 1>on the day the truck pulls up to your farm.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, we don't want members of

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<v Speaker 1>Congress sitting and pretending that they're day traders behind their

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<v Speaker 1>desk making swaps or derivatives in for example, the oil space.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, any insider in any inside trading would be illegal, period,

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<v Speaker 1>full stop. But broadly speaking, I don't think we want

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<v Speaker 1>members of Congress making their living by doing day trading activities.

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<v Speaker 1>And so let's just put in the blanket ban on

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<v Speaker 1>individual companies shares the stock. Then let's look for other

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<v Speaker 1>errors where we can reach that consensus that's needed to

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<v Speaker 1>actually add to the ethics reform we just passed.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to move on to tokenization. Can you tell

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<v Speaker 3>us about the recent hearings on this and the move

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<v Speaker 3>towards tokenization as the future of markets.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is a great way to leverage technology to

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<v Speaker 1>create massive efficiencies. And when we have efficiencies, if you

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<v Speaker 1>believe in the free market like I do. The consumers

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<v Speaker 1>are going to benefit by that, both by convenience but

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<v Speaker 1>also by price. When we talk in the financial services

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<v Speaker 1>space rit large, there is a huge opportunity here for

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four to seven real time exchanges that you can

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<v Speaker 1>carry a lot of metadata in these transactions that you

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<v Speaker 1>would not have been able to do in the old days.

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<v Speaker 1>And so some of this I step all the way back.

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<v Speaker 1>We had a hearing last Friday based on I'm really

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<v Speaker 1>on crypto, but broadly in this broader technology space. We

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<v Speaker 1>went to Federal Hall in New York City. Federal Hall,

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<v Speaker 1>if you may remember or may know, was where Congress

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<v Speaker 1>first met in seventeen eighty nine, sitting on Wall Street,

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<v Speaker 1>now adjacent to the New York Stock Exchange. We're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about in that room is the beginning of the debate

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<v Speaker 1>of should the states take on the should the federal

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<v Speaker 1>government take on the debt of states that was issued

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<v Speaker 1>to pay for the Revolutionary war? And you think about

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<v Speaker 1>the financial decisions that were made in the technology that

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<v Speaker 1>was needed back then to make those types of payments

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<v Speaker 1>in the coupons, you go all the way up in

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<v Speaker 1>the greenbacks issues. We head into the civil War. You

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<v Speaker 1>get the thirty three and thirty four Act, and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of that language is based on what was available

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<v Speaker 1>at the time shareholders held shares. You get all the

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<v Speaker 1>way up into tokenization. There are massive efficiencies that we

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<v Speaker 1>can operate with to create a better plumbing system. The

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<v Speaker 1>United States has been the beneficiary of the best capital

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<v Speaker 1>markets in the globe, and if we lean in and

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<v Speaker 1>get the tokenization piece right, I think you will see

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<v Speaker 1>more efficiencies in the US markets. Stronger US capital markets

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<v Speaker 1>in the US capital markets are a massive benefit to

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<v Speaker 1>innovation and development of new technologies here in the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Beyond tokenization, are there other use cases that you and

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<v Speaker 2>the folks in the subcommittee are looking at for blockchain?

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<v Speaker 2>Can it be using government and in different ways?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think there is massive opportunities here. Businesses that

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<v Speaker 1>will build on layer one blockchains that are hearing in

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<v Speaker 1>New York go back to the same reference we had

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<v Speaker 1>the company Helium. In Helium is building out opportunities for

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<v Speaker 1>people to be able to share bandwidth and Wi Fi

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<v Speaker 1>in leveraging blockchain technology to do that. We asked a

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<v Speaker 1>point blank would your business operates if it wasn't for

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<v Speaker 1>distributed Ledger technology, and the answer is no. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I think innovative businesses like that. You think about a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the paperwork and filings from car registrations or

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<v Speaker 1>land titles that are going to be innovative and businesses

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<v Speaker 1>that will innovate in that space. And then there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of stuff we've never thought about. I mean, one

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<v Speaker 1>of my favorite things to think about is if you

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<v Speaker 1>go back and watch back to the future too. They

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<v Speaker 1>travel from the eighties into into the teens. They arrive

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<v Speaker 1>in their you know, their flying cars and everything else,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're taking phone calls in phone booths because the

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<v Speaker 1>concept that you could hold a cell phone in your

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<v Speaker 1>hand and talk to somebody without allowing attached to it

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<v Speaker 1>was a concept that was hard to grasp. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of those technologies are being developed right now, but until

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<v Speaker 1>they become consumer ready, a lot of folks that aren't

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<v Speaker 1>living and breathing in this space aren't aware of them.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think a lot of this is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be transformational technology to the benefit of Americans. But

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<v Speaker 1>what we've got to get the regulatory framework right so

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<v Speaker 1>these innovators and developers are here in the US.

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<v Speaker 2>Once the Clarity actis passed, do you believe the next

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<v Speaker 2>priority will be crypto tax legislation, and then you know,

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<v Speaker 2>do you believe after that maybe bitcoin reserve its won't.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm opening. I'm very open to walking and schewing government.

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<v Speaker 1>At the same time, I think we can move forward

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<v Speaker 1>on the tax piece, and we can move forward and

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<v Speaker 1>look at bitcoin reserve. Also, I think the tax piece

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<v Speaker 1>is really important. So much of our legislation just was

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<v Speaker 1>not built for the digital age. That's true in the

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory space, which is clarity. It's also true in the

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<v Speaker 1>tax space and providing rules of the road in the

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<v Speaker 1>tax space so people know, for example, what is the basis,

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<v Speaker 1>when is it a taxable event? Is mining and staking?

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<v Speaker 1>When does the tax event occur? What happens if you

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<v Speaker 1>make a donation of digital assets? How do we rule

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<v Speaker 1>and regulate the value of that inside the tax code.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really important to get right. Again, the more clarity

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<v Speaker 1>lower case c clarity in this case that we're providing

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<v Speaker 1>in that space, the better off we are, and more

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<v Speaker 1>and more people business and businesses will be willing to

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<v Speaker 1>engage and innovate in the space. We've got to clean

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of this up. But I think the tax

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<v Speaker 1>good needs to go really in real time here. It's

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<v Speaker 1>time that we have this cleaned up.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. Congressman brand Steele, thank you so much for your time,

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<v Speaker 3>and thank you for all your hard work and efforts.

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<v Speaker 3>I think I speak for Tony as well when I

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<v Speaker 3>say we both you have both of our support.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Thank you both,