1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Broadcasting from Studio A here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,880 It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella, me, 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:16,320 Rick Weist, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Today, Stacey, 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,719 we go to the danger zone. I love this. I 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:27,239 feel the need for seed, not speed seed whatever. Zone pushing. 6 00:00:27,559 --> 00:00:29,519 So you may have heard of a method of gardening 7 00:00:29,559 --> 00:00:33,759 called zone pushing, where homeowners and gardeners figuring out ways 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:39,200 to plant grow items that don't usually live or survive 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:45,759 in their heartiness zone. So maybe we're pushing things one, 10 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:51,159 maybe two zones beyond what our normal zone is. So 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:57,560 it's not zone ignoring, its zone pushing seeing what you 12 00:00:57,679 --> 00:01:00,000 can get away with in your lands. 13 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,479 Speaker 2: You know, that's exactly it. And really I think this 14 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,519 is where gardening takes place, right when you dare to 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,159 stand up and experiments, yes with something. And you know, 16 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,280 this is a topic that has come up through the 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,040 many years we've been doing the show here and there, 18 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,879 and you know, it always seems to come up, I 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,239 don't know, in like summer or fall or something, which 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,879 is the exact time that you cannot do anything for 21 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,079 most areas. Certainly if you're trying to push a warmer zone, 22 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,439 plant into a colder zone, plant into a colder zone. 23 00:01:33,879 --> 00:01:36,040 You can't do it then, so I wanted to, you know, 24 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:37,920 I thought we should do the show when people can 25 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,799 actually take advantage of the coming spring to maybe try 26 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,239 to push some hardiness zones rather than just go yeah, 27 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:47,000 I should really do that. 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,359 Speaker 1: Sometimes I love that because I've been doing that for years. 29 00:01:50,439 --> 00:01:54,280 It's kind of like high stakes gambling with your landscape 30 00:01:54,439 --> 00:01:59,200 and plant heartiness. But also tied into the whole mix 31 00:01:59,799 --> 00:02:05,040 is development of your landscape using things like backdrops, barriers, 32 00:02:05,159 --> 00:02:09,919 the home, plants, trees, elevations, et cetera, et cetera, to 33 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:14,599 landscape and create what we would call micro climates where 34 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,599 some of these plants can exist. Does a wall get 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,520 you maybe half a zone planting in the city, maybe 36 00:02:23,599 --> 00:02:28,759 half a zone near a river, quarter zone against a house, 37 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,719 or if you've got a glass porch, a full zone, 38 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:36,199 a southern exposure and slope. You know, this is how 39 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,240 my brain works, Okay, And especially living in the north, 40 00:02:41,759 --> 00:02:46,759 as you leave winter, it is very telling if you 41 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:50,400 have a slope that faces the south, how quickly the 42 00:02:50,439 --> 00:02:55,000 ice and snow go away. Whereas an area of the home, 43 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,599 let's say that is subject to structural shade, or on 44 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,759 the north side that ice and snow seems to last forever, 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,680 or all the way some of the piles all the 46 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,639 way into June feels that way, and I'm exaggerating. You 47 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:12,199 really get a good feel for micro climates and your 48 00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:14,599 potential for pushing zones. 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,759 Speaker 2: That's a great point because not only is spring the 50 00:03:17,879 --> 00:03:20,639 time that you can actually take action on trying to 51 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,639 push the hardiness zones of some plants that you really 52 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,120 wish you could grow, but it's also the perfect time 53 00:03:25,159 --> 00:03:28,240 to observe and find out what those micro climates you 54 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,719 know potentially are in your yard. Are there things, Are 55 00:03:31,759 --> 00:03:34,960 there places that you notice, yeah, where the snow melts first. 56 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,800 Are there places where things emerge more quickly than in 57 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,919 other parts of your yard or bloom a little bit 58 00:03:41,919 --> 00:03:44,039 more quickly. So now is the time to kind of 59 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,080 pick up on all of those little cubes, because there's 60 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,599 so much easier to see in winter, when we're just 61 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,280 much more attuned to every little thing that happens in 62 00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:52,800 the landscape. 63 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: And getting a jump start on the season. So I'll 64 00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:59,080 start you right off with my limb A rick for today. 65 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:04,879 I already I love Lieutenant Pete Maverick Mitchell and Goose 66 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:08,199 in the nineteen eighty six movie Top Gun and their 67 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,280 famous line in Unison, I feel the need, the need 68 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:18,959 for speed, but it essentially points out their risk taking character. 69 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:22,720 I have a tendency to be a risk taker. In 70 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,000 the landscape test the limits of what could be grown 71 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:31,319 without use of a plant hormone, ignoring heartiness recommendations, I 72 00:04:31,439 --> 00:04:36,399 defy expectations, and yes, I went to the danger zone. 73 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,240 The boundaries all exceed no place for those who are 74 00:04:40,319 --> 00:04:45,040 weak need a plant with staying power, permission to buzz 75 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,600 the flower. I feel the need for seed. Sorry, I 76 00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:50,759 took some liberties there. 77 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's fair Limerick after all. 78 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: But you know, when we talk about this subject, Stacy, 79 00:04:56,079 --> 00:04:57,879 one of the things that comes to mind for me 80 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,279 is for me trying to get a jump start on 81 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,759 the season with my cannas and my dahlias or my 82 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,160 beloved banana trees that I try to overwinter by heavily 83 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:15,079 mulching and then bordering it with boulders, because again stone 84 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:21,519 can absorb light heat and be valuable. Raised beds or 85 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:27,560 boulders around that area absorb heat, so I have that, 86 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:31,839 and in your landscape you're dealing with the fig trees. 87 00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:34,199 Speaker 2: Yes, trying to grow a fig and actually quite successfully, 88 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,959 although we shall see what this past winter did to 89 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,279 our fig knock on wood right now it looks pretty great. 90 00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:42,959 But yeah, you know, when you were talking about that, 91 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,759 I was thinking about figs, and not just my own figs, 92 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,079 but also in England, where of course have a very 93 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,120 mild climate, but it never really gets very hot, so't 94 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,079 they don't have the cold to worry about to get 95 00:05:56,079 --> 00:05:58,240 figs through the season, but they also never really have 96 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,879 enough warmth to ripen. So back I think it was 97 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,879 like in the nineteen twenties, this concept of a fig 98 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,920 dome became quite popular where they would plant the figs 99 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:12,000 against these metal domes kind of turned over like an 100 00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:15,240 umbrella and train the branches over the dome and the 101 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,279 fig dome the metal would absorb the heat in an 102 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:21,800 attempt to ripen the figs. So sometimes it's not just 103 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,519 about you know, whether the plant can grow, it's about getting, 104 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:26,800 you know, the thing that you want. So you know, 105 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,160 another great example of that. I love camelias. I think 106 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:35,040 they're just one of the most beautiful ornamental, useful plants 107 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,920 out there. They're deer resistant, their flowers are amazing, and 108 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,079 so I have attempted to grow camellias at multiple points 109 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,240 here in Michigan, and what I often found was that 110 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,839 I could get the plant to live, but that by 111 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:49,680 the time it would bloom and fall, and usually the 112 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,279 fall blooming camellias are the much more cold tolerant than 113 00:06:52,319 --> 00:06:56,959 the winter and spring blooming camelias, that by the time 114 00:06:57,079 --> 00:06:59,319 fall came around, it was just too cold anymore for 115 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,879 those flowers to actually open. So sometimes it's not solely 116 00:07:02,879 --> 00:07:05,639 a matter of survival. It's a matter of getting the 117 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:07,800 plant to do what you want it to do in 118 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:08,399 your climate. 119 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: I like that. I appreciate the fact that you shared 120 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,560 that because for people keeping score at home, stay both 121 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,680 Stacey and I live in West Michigan along the lake 122 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,879 shore where i'm six B yeah six B yeah, six B, 123 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,480 and generally when I look at camellias, they say seven 124 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,120 If you're providing protection seven B, maybe you'd be okay. 125 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,079 And so it's one of those plants that perfectly fits 126 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,439 that pushing the zone example. 127 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we've had them survive quite well here 128 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:44,720 right outside studio A in fact, as well as in 129 00:07:44,759 --> 00:07:48,000 our trial garden not far away from here. The question 130 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,000 is just whether or not they flower. Unfortunately, the foliage 131 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,920 is attractive enough. But also it's just kind of cool 132 00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:57,959 to amaze your friends, whether they're gardening friends or not, 133 00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:01,879 and say, hey, hey, here's my camellia. I've been growing 134 00:08:01,879 --> 00:08:05,399 it for five years, and they'll be like, so, you know, 135 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,519 and one time I visited it. One time I visited 136 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:11,839 a public garden in North Carolina. This happened to me 137 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:15,680 as a professional horticulturist. So I visited this public garden 138 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,720 in North Carolina and they're showing me around and she says, 139 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,079 and here's our taxes. And I just gave her the 140 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,680 most blank look of my entire life. And they're like 141 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,680 waiting for me to have a reaction. And I had 142 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,039 no idea that it was a massive deal that they 143 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:36,159 were growing at taxis just a regular old you know 144 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,759 you of course they can grow cephalo taxes. So it 145 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,360 was quite lost on me that this was a special thing. 146 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,279 So I was like, yeah, taxes, okay, but you know, 147 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:48,120 it's I think a good theme for this show. The 148 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:50,080 grass is always greener on the other side. 149 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:53,159 Speaker 1: You've got it, and things are always bigger in taxis right, 150 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,120 But I'm glad you brought that up because when you're 151 00:08:57,159 --> 00:09:01,399 dealing with your yard, your yard is not uniform, so 152 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,679 it's a number of micro climates. I try to create 153 00:09:04,759 --> 00:09:10,159 some micro climates. I'm using these aluminum corrugated panels as 154 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,320 backdrops increase the light. Of course, some homes are brick absorbs. 155 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,559 There are different types of coverings you can put on 156 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,600 your home that will reflect more light maybe help. Some 157 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,600 spots are warmer, some are colder, some are wind sheltered, 158 00:09:27,639 --> 00:09:31,440 and it's important to note also that some are more 159 00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:36,120 damp than others. And if you have standing water, for example, 160 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,480 around roots. We've talked about this before, your odds of 161 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:44,639 success are far far lower if you do not have 162 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,360 good drainage. There's a huge difference between a south facing 163 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,919 slope on a home and the north side of the home. 164 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,120 So the key is to map and manipulate those niches, 165 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,360 so to speak, and then go out there and do 166 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,240 a little bit of gambling. Because Stacy, you mentioned Camellia's 167 00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:07,799 I want to grow them here in Michigan. Another one 168 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,039 that I really want to grow, and of course, I 169 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,759 do have the potential of doing it is crape myrtle? 170 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 2: Yep, oh for sure. Definitely that's much harder than people 171 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:16,639 thought exactly. 172 00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:19,639 Speaker 1: So let's see how Stacey ties this in and plants 173 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,559 on trial. That's coming up next here on the Gardening 174 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:23,679 Simplified Show. 175 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,759 Speaker 2: Beautify your home and community with Proven Winner's Color Choice 176 00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:35,879 shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties 177 00:10:35,919 --> 00:10:38,559 to choose from. There's a flowering shrub or evergreen for 178 00:10:38,639 --> 00:10:41,840 every taste and every space. Just look for the distinctive 179 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,559 white container your local garden center or learn more at 180 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,840 proven Winners Color Choice dot com. You're Reading's Gardening friends, 181 00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:52,519 and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where we 182 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,000 are sharing our ideas and tips on how you can 183 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,519 push your heartiness own. Now, this stuff applies to shrubs, perennials, 184 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,360 even maybe to some extent trees, and you know, really, 185 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,639 what we're kind of recommending is that if you want 186 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,679 to grow something that is one one zone hardier, in 187 00:11:08,759 --> 00:11:11,840 most cases, probably a pretty good chance of success. Two 188 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,039 zones hardier, maybe less of a chance. But the point 189 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,080 is the number one thing that you want to do 190 00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:19,600 when you are pushing your herd in a zone is 191 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,360 give the plant the longest possible time to get established 192 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,279 before winter, which you know, again we're talking about a 193 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:28,879 plant's ability to withstand cold, and we're trying to push that. 194 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,240 A plant that was planted in fall and only had 195 00:11:32,279 --> 00:11:34,559 you know, two or three months to get established before 196 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,279 winter sets in is definitely not going to be as 197 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,919 prepared to deal with those challenges as something that you 198 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,720 plant in spring that is then going to be able 199 00:11:43,759 --> 00:11:45,480 to have, you know, all of the height of the 200 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,919 growing season to develop those roots and put on some 201 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,080 good body to help it withstand the winter. Also doesn't 202 00:11:51,159 --> 00:11:52,600 hurt if you end up with a couple of mild 203 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,320 winters in a row. That kind of helps it put 204 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,279 on a little bit more bulk. And you always do 205 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,799 have to kind of be prepared for the worst to happen. 206 00:12:00,879 --> 00:12:03,679 Oh yeah, you know. But also you can be like 207 00:12:03,879 --> 00:12:06,679 that's a learning experience too, you know it's but. 208 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,879 Speaker 1: Then when you have a victory, I mean that risk 209 00:12:08,919 --> 00:12:09,639 taking is. 210 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 2: Makes it work, absolutely so. Rick, let me ask you 211 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,200 if you could grow one plant from outside your zone. 212 00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:18,519 We're not even just saying like it's possible to grow 213 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:21,159 in Michigan, just like you can now have one plant 214 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,679 magically grow in your yard. What is it easy? Okay? 215 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,120 Palm trees Okay, that's a lot. That's a big group 216 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:28,679 of plants. 217 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:34,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know with any plant Pho, phoenix, ROI palms. Okay, 218 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,360 well what about like a palms? 219 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: What about the palmettows? It s all palmettos like they 220 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,039 heave in South Carolina. Because there's a chance you would 221 00:12:41,039 --> 00:12:44,440 be able to grow that, I'd say, and but quite there. 222 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: Right, believe me, I've thought. But then this past year 223 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,159 that polar vortex win winter that we went through, but 224 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,759 I'm not bitter about it put me back in my place. 225 00:12:55,879 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's worth it for me. I would have 226 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,879 to say. It would either be a lemon tree or 227 00:13:02,919 --> 00:13:03,759 an avocado tree. 228 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:05,919 Speaker 1: Oh ms, wouldn't that be great? 229 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: Would it just be so amazing to just like go 230 00:13:08,159 --> 00:13:10,759 out your backyard and pick lemons whenever you wanted to? 231 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: Coconut trees? 232 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,639 Speaker 2: So you know, I know, we sometimes get accused, and 233 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,519 rightfully so, from our warm climate listeners that were not 234 00:13:17,799 --> 00:13:20,399 you know, giving enough attention to them. 235 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,399 Speaker 1: But we can flip it on its ear right, I 236 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:25,679 mean they how about if they push things like lilacs 237 00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:26,240 or something. 238 00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about that it's plants on Trial, 239 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,879 but I just thought i'd introduce it by us sharing 240 00:13:30,879 --> 00:13:34,600 what we wish we could grow from your warmer climates, 241 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,759 because again, the grass is always greener on the other side. Yeah, So, 242 00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:40,679 in thinking about plants on Trial for today, I thought 243 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,200 about my many years of talking with various home gardeners 244 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,759 from all over the country, and I came up with 245 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:50,159 a top list of plants that people in cold climates 246 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,159 wish they could grow, as well as a list of 247 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,960 people in hot climates wish that they could grow that 248 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,519 are too cold. Too cold toller, Okay, excellent. So and 249 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:02,440 these are not in any particular order. They're just kind 250 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,159 of as they came to me. But so my list 251 00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:09,720 of people that in cold climates wish that they could 252 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,399 grow or at least grow successfully. Number one big leaf 253 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,159 hydrangea hydrange of Macrophylla. You know there's and that's one 254 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:17,759 of those plants that kind of goes along with what 255 00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:20,759 we were talking about in the last segment, where you 256 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:22,919 know the plant can grow like you will have a 257 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,320 hydrange of macrophilla or big leaf hydrangel. This is the 258 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,879 kind of the pink, purple or blue flowers. The planet 259 00:14:27,879 --> 00:14:31,120 itself will survive, but just that it hadn't because you 260 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,960 never get a single flower on it, at least if 261 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,879 it's an old fashioned variety. You know, as we've said before, 262 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:38,799 we're working really hard on that here at Pervumina's Colored 263 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,759 Choice Shrubs. So if if you are one of these 264 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,480 cold climate gardeners who dearly wish you could have those 265 00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:48,759 fabulous big blue globe flowers on a hydrangea, I would 266 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,360 encourage you to add lightstance, sky view, continuous blooming Hydrangea 267 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:56,240 to your list. It is hardy to USDA zone four, 268 00:14:56,799 --> 00:15:00,559 and we have heard success stories down in you zoned 269 00:15:00,559 --> 00:15:03,679 for In fact, I even heard from a gardener who 270 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:06,159 was growing it and get ready for this, he was 271 00:15:06,159 --> 00:15:11,600 in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Whoa, yeah, Now he was protecting it. 272 00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:14,360 I will say that because that's his zone three. But 273 00:15:14,399 --> 00:15:17,440 it was flowering and doing great. So you know, that's 274 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,679 one that can be easily resolved by picking the right variety, 275 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:23,679 which is another strategy that you can use in pushing 276 00:15:23,679 --> 00:15:26,200 hardiness zones. For example, if you want to grow rosemary, 277 00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:29,799 the variety arparp Is known to be much hardier than 278 00:15:29,879 --> 00:15:32,279 other types of rosemary, so sometimes it's worth looking into 279 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:35,840 is there a specific variety that will work next on 280 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:37,799 the list. I hear this from a lot of Zone 281 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,039 four gardeners because they're just not quite at the threshold 282 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,600 Rosa Sharon. Oh really, Well, you know, it's a pretty 283 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,159 beloved plant, and I think, you know, if you're in 284 00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:49,360 Zone four, you're just kind of like so close and 285 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,759 yet so far when it comes to growing Rosa Sharon. 286 00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:54,000 And you know, I have to confess, even though a 287 00:15:54,039 --> 00:15:56,039 lot of people feel like roses of Sharon are kind 288 00:15:56,039 --> 00:15:58,919 of just a ho home plant, there are very few 289 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,799 other shrubs that bloom that much and look that great. 290 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,399 They attract hummingbirds, they attract pollinators. 291 00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: And at that time of year. 292 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're dead easy to grow. I mean, you 293 00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:11,559 don't have to do a single darn thing. So definitely 294 00:16:11,559 --> 00:16:14,399 hearing that from the Zone four and colder gardeners. I 295 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,679 hear from a lot of cold climate gardeners that they 296 00:16:16,679 --> 00:16:20,639 wish they could grow are perfected mundo azaleas. And you know, 297 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,360 that's a situation where you know, when I talk to 298 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:26,720 gardeners about that, that's really a perfect example of how 299 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,840 the hardiness zone system fails us Now, the hardiness zone 300 00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:32,000 USDA Hardiness oon system is the only system that we 301 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,279 have for determining a plant's temperature tolerance. But of course 302 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,360 it's not perfect. Few systems are. But the issue here 303 00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:41,960 is that, you know, yes, perfected Mundo azaleas are hardy 304 00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:44,840 down to Zone six B. They have overwintered here, but 305 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,559 not all USDA Zone six B areas are the same. 306 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,919 And when we're only talking about the lowest temperature in 307 00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:55,440 area will get, then we're not you know, you know, 308 00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:57,799 involving other factors like how long does it say that 309 00:16:57,879 --> 00:17:01,399 cold and is there snow cover and all of these 310 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,440 other things. So you know, absolutely perfecting wind to azalels 311 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,880 will do great on the east coast sort of in 312 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,119 that southeast Delaware kind of area do perfectly well. But 313 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,440 you know, when you get into the Midwest and six bees, 314 00:17:13,519 --> 00:17:16,359 things are a little bit different. Crepe myrtle is another one, 315 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,559 and that's that's when I feel like, you know, yes, 316 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,599 of course we do have varieties that we are finding 317 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,000 bloom perfectly swell even down to USCA Zone five. They 318 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,759 may die back to the ground, but because they are 319 00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:29,200 shrubby crape myrtles. It doesn't matter, you're not losing this 320 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,119 whole huge plant. They just come back from the ground. 321 00:17:31,279 --> 00:17:33,400 But I also feel like that's a plant that as 322 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,440 it has become more mainstream and thanks to the Internet 323 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,119 where people are better able to share their experiences, are 324 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,119 finding out it's a little bit more cold tolerant than 325 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,559 they thought. And of course my favorite camellia. So that's 326 00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:48,960 the quick end of my quick list for cold climate 327 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,319 gardeners wishing that they could grow. Definitely, you already said it, Rick. 328 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,920 The number one plant that I hear from warm climate 329 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,319 gardeners that they dearly wish they could grow is lilacs. 330 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:00,880 And you know, I don't even I think it's just 331 00:18:01,079 --> 00:18:03,359 a transplants, you know, people who grew up in colder 332 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,599 climates and found themselves moving to a warmer climate. I mean, 333 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,480 they're just kind of like the epitome of like a 334 00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:13,480 romantic spring plants fragrance, I mean, and they really are 335 00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,640 an extraordinary fragrance. And you know they're even here in 336 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,319 the North. I have to say, they bloom all too short, 337 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,839 especially lately where it tends to get a little bit 338 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,079 warmer in May, those blooms can be very very short lived. 339 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,759 But lilocks. You know, it's harder for our friends in 340 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,079 warm climates to grow something like a lilac, And you 341 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,559 don't really have the advantage that we have of starting 342 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:38,240 earlier in the season and trying to get it established 343 00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:41,440 because the problem with the lilacs they strictly need a 344 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,759 cold treatment, a period of cold temperatures in order to 345 00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:47,519 set and develop their flower buds. And that's not something 346 00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:48,440 you can really get around. 347 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:49,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 348 00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:51,519 Speaker 2: You know, unless you're gonna kind of ring up some 349 00:18:51,559 --> 00:18:54,240 sort of elaborate refrigerator system that's going to be in 350 00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:56,759 your yard all winter, chill in the plants. 351 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:57,839 Speaker 1: You're not going to be able to fix it with 352 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,279 shading trying to cool it. 353 00:18:59,400 --> 00:18:59,839 Speaker 2: Exactly. 354 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,319 Speaker 1: Just can't get it fire. 355 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,319 Speaker 2: Enough, so it does. That does make a difference. Panicle 356 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,279 hydrange is now, that's another plant people in warm climates 357 00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:09,319 can grow them. We just moved all of our panicle 358 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,839 hydrange of heat tolerance to USDA Zone nine based on 359 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,480 feedback from our growers and from our new plant development 360 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,279 manager who grew up in the South. But you know, 361 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,960 as fabulous as they are, they don't really turn great colors. 362 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,839 So they don't only wish that they could grow panicle 363 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,559 hydrange as they can, they wish that they could get 364 00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:28,920 that fabulous pink, purple, pink red color that we get 365 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,119 up here. Now, this one is not a shrub, But boy, 366 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,240 have I heard from a lot of warm climate. 367 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: Garden where you're going here now? Yeah? 368 00:19:36,079 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, p andies. Yeah, And so that I think is 369 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,279 a great example of how we as a cold climate 370 00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:45,039 gardener can feel comforted by something. I mean, because how 371 00:19:45,079 --> 00:19:46,480 fabulous are peonies. 372 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: And p andies embrace cold web. 373 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: They love it. Yeah, they need it, they absolutely need it. 374 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,960 So you know, we can be grateful we might be 375 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,359 able to grow a lemon, but we can grow a 376 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,079 pa andy and the grass is always greener. On the 377 00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:00,880 other side, the other one, hear a lot from warm 378 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,640 climate peeps blacklace elderberry. Really yes, because even though this 379 00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:08,880 plant the planet itself will grow, what it will not 380 00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:12,160 do in warm climates is turned black. The heat is 381 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,880 just too intense and it kind of gets this weird 382 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,559 muddy green color. Okay, So you know, unfortunately, like I said, 383 00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:21,680 for our warm climate friends, it is a little bit 384 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,880 harder for you to do to take the measures that 385 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,920 we can take in cold climates like this, where we 386 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,759 can plant and spring, we can choose protected areas, we 387 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,839 can research and find varieties that are more suited. Although 388 00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:36,960 you can do that warm climate friends to a certain extent, 389 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,920 there is such a thing as low chill lilacs that 390 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,680 require fewer chilling hours. And so the way you will 391 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,279 figure those out is if you look at that heartiness 392 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,400 zone range on a plant. If it goes up to 393 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,359 say zone eight instead of just zone seven, like our 394 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,960 centaur lilocs do versus our bloomerang lilacs, that means they 395 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,319 require fewer chilling hours. So with a little bit of 396 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,839 research you can find that. But you know, I would 397 00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:03,880 also say that if we all look into our gardens 398 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,200 and do some self examination, I think we can all 399 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,359 be pretty happy at the things that we can grow, 400 00:21:09,599 --> 00:21:14,240 and despite wishing what else we could grow, I think 401 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,000 we can be pretty happy with you. Right on that note, 402 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:18,480 we're going to take a little break and when we 403 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:20,559 come back, we're opening up the mailbags. So stay tuned 404 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,240 at proven winners color choice shrubs. We know that a 405 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,319 better landscape starts with a better shrub. Our team of 406 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,440 experts tests and evaluates all of our flowering shrubs and 407 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,839 evergreens for eight to ten years to ensure they outperform 408 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,160 what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs 409 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,359 to accentuate your home and express your personal style, look 410 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,200 for Proven Winners shrubs in the distinctive white container at 411 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,839 your local garden center or learn more at proven Winner's 412 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:58,319 Color choice dot com. Creating's gardening friends and welcome back 413 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,759 to the Gardening Simplified Show. Where is our pleasure to 414 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:03,839 help you with your gardens questions, quandaries and conundrums. And 415 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,519 if you have one of those, you can reach out 416 00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:08,440 to us at help at Gardening Simplified on air dot com, 417 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:11,640 or just visit Gardeningsimplified on air dot com. There's a 418 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,839 contact from there. You can even attach a picture, and 419 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,599 you can also ask a question on our YouTube comments. 420 00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:20,960 Adriana reads all of those and asks for help if 421 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,839 she needs it. Otherwise, you know, Adurana knows a lot, 422 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,599 so she can answer most of them on her own. 423 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,720 But so there's lots of different ways that we can 424 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,359 try to help you, especially if your question is maybe 425 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,920 not all that amenable to asking on the radio, because 426 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,640 you know, we have limited time, and sometimes things are 427 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,559 like very complicated and I'm using my hands a lot, 428 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,759 and you know all of that, and it's not easy 429 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:44,359 to answer, So you know, we want it to be 430 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,799 like I could, I could go on forever on some questions, 431 00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:50,880 so as Adriana can certainly attest. So anyway, we would 432 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,200 love to hear from you, and we do appreciate you 433 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,839 listening and asking your questions. So we have someone who 434 00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:00,880 has a question specifically for you. Her name is Kathy, 435 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,599 and she says, I am going to Amsterdam and Brussels 436 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:06,400 April nineteenth to twenty eighth. Of course I want to 437 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,400 see tulips and gardens. Would you be willing to share 438 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,599 with me the gardens you visited on your recent trip, 439 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:14,559 in particular the tulip fields. Thank you? 440 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,599 Speaker 1: Oh wow, Well, I'll tell you what. Both my parents 441 00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:24,160 were born and raised in the Netherlands, survived World War two, 442 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,920 the hunger winter in the Netherlands of nineteen forty four 443 00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:32,680 forty five eight tulip bulbs to stay alive. So they 444 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,680 were born in an area just south of Amsterdam. And 445 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:40,839 if you focus your attention on the area, I'm thinking 446 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,599 it's just south and west of Amsterdam. It's an area 447 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,480 called Lissa l i ss. The fields in that area 448 00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:54,240 are beautiful, so you can I mean, first stop, you 449 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,200 have to go to Koykinhoff Gardens. 450 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,079 Speaker 2: I mean it's just kind of the gold standard. 451 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,839 Speaker 1: Oh it's the gold standard. I mean it's since it's 452 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,119 absolutely beautiful. But I found myself pulling off to the 453 00:24:05,279 --> 00:24:10,640 side along the roadways in that general area taking photographs 454 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,720 of the fields. And the funnest thing that I got 455 00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:18,480 to do in that regard to address Kathy's question, and 456 00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:20,440 I'm gonna go back and do it again, is you 457 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,160 can rent a bike. Bikes are big in the Netherlands. 458 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,839 Everybody's riding a bike. And you rent a bike and 459 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:34,240 you leave the Koikanhoff area and you pedal around areas 460 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:40,799 like Halvec I think it's pronounced or Lisa. You're able 461 00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:43,319 to get up close and personal with these fields where 462 00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:46,960 they're actually growing these bulbs. And I have numerous pictures 463 00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:51,720 of that, took video, just just loved it, and that's 464 00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:54,480 what I would recommend you do. Get on a bike. 465 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,440 You can rent the bike, I believe right near Koikanhoff, 466 00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:02,559 right near the gardens there, and then head out on 467 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,240 these beautifully paved trails and see some of these fields 468 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:06,799 for yourself. 469 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: And it's known to be very flat, which is why 470 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,359 it's so great for tulips. So you don't have to 471 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,000 worry about, you know, getting winded on those hills and 472 00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:15,440 it's just going to have a very pleasant bike. Right now, 473 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,880 What do you think about that timing? Do you think 474 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,960 the tulips will still be at peak in mid to 475 00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:19,519 late April? 476 00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:22,519 Speaker 1: No, that's always a roll of the dice. When I've 477 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,079 been there, it's been mid April, right smack dab in 478 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,680 mid April, and it was beautiful. I would think April 479 00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:32,240 nineteen to twenty eight, you should be in good shape. 480 00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:34,519 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think. I mean there's late tulips, of course, 481 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:37,079 you know there's early, mid and late tulips. And that's 482 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,279 why down here in Holland, in Michigan you can usually 483 00:25:40,319 --> 00:25:42,640 catch some tulips even if we have an early spring, 484 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,720 because they make sure to plant that full range. And 485 00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:48,119 you know, I've been to Amsterdam once many years ago. 486 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,920 It was in late spring, and I really found that 487 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,519 all of Amsterdam was like a garden. I mean, you 488 00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:57,400 know when I was there, the horse chestnuts were in bloom. 489 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,519 There were baby ducks in the canals, and it was 490 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:00,559 it was a ferryland. 491 00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: It was just the country beautiful. 492 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 493 00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:06,799 Speaker 1: And that's the other thing I'd suggest to Kathy is 494 00:26:06,799 --> 00:26:09,759 is I rented a car. I got off the plane 495 00:26:09,839 --> 00:26:12,359 and got my rental car and I pretty much drove 496 00:26:12,599 --> 00:26:14,880 all of Holland. It's beautiful. 497 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 498 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: And like you said, Stacey, it's flat, so you know. 499 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:20,759 And if you were to rent a bike, if you could, 500 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,359 if pedling looks sounds like a lot of work to you, 501 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:25,519 you can get electric. 502 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well yeah, e bikes are everywhere now, right, And 503 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,440 I think there is a small botanical garden in Amsterdam 504 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,279 propers if you are seeing in a hotel. I visited 505 00:26:34,279 --> 00:26:36,960 that and found it was quite lovely. But really everywhere 506 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,480 you go, I mean, and like most of Europe, you know, 507 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,000 just there's just so much more planting, yes, and plants 508 00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:47,240 and venerable old trees and parks everywhere in most places 509 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:49,920 that you just kind of always have that sense that 510 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,839 you're you're never really far away from some fabulous plants. 511 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: So focus on the Lissa area. 512 00:26:55,759 --> 00:27:00,759 Speaker 2: L I s s all right, we have a different 513 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:04,720 question from a question from a different cafee. O. She 514 00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:06,880 says Hi. We living grand rapids in this spring. We 515 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,400 want to plant a lawn alternative to grass. We're looking 516 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,680 at clover. We can't physically do the entire yard, but 517 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,440 we have large patches that we want to fill in 518 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,640 with clover. Can you give any advice and when to 519 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,880 plant and the best way. We'd also like to know 520 00:27:20,279 --> 00:27:22,839 what's the best clover seed to purchase. You have any 521 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:26,440 experience with clover lawns as our resident lawn. 522 00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:30,279 Speaker 1: Expert, Well, we used to at the garden center sell 523 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,880 a lot of white clover. And of course clover is 524 00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:39,160 nitrogen fixing, so you're dealing with something that's quite different 525 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,680 from turf because stacy with turf, it seems like we're 526 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,039 always out there pumping down the fertilizer and putting in 527 00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:51,480 the inputs, whereas with clover. With clover you don't. So again, 528 00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:54,960 soil preparation similar to if you're going to be planting 529 00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:58,680 grass seed, and of course a concern if it's in 530 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,039 a sunny area. Did you have experience with crab grass 531 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,359 and nuts edge last year? If you didn't, great, but 532 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,200 if you did, you may find that as you try 533 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,720 to seed this, you're going to have some competition from 534 00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:17,039 those weeds as the weather starts to warm up, and 535 00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:20,519 that can make it a little bit difficult. 536 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: If you didn't have crabgrass and nutsedge. I want to 537 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,480 know your secret, Please let me know. Yeah. I love 538 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,599 the idea of clover as a long alternative. It's so pretty, 539 00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:33,680 you know, it says grain all season you can look 540 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,640 for four leaf clovers and how fun is that? And 541 00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:39,200 you know, and then you got the flowers that attract bees. Now, 542 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,000 some people don't like that, but just because it attracts 543 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,039 and sustains bees does not mean it is going to 544 00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:47,200 increase the beastings in your yard because the bees are 545 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,559 too happy gathering the nectar from the clover flowers. That said, 546 00:28:50,599 --> 00:28:53,839 there are two main types of clover that are recommended 547 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,599 as lawns. Number one is a mini clover, and you'll 548 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,119 find various varieties of this, but if you search mini clover, 549 00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:04,119 that one is going to have much smaller leaves and 550 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,039 be much closer to the ground. So if you want 551 00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:10,240 more of that kind of conventional, well groomed lawn, look, 552 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,319 a mini clover is the way to go. Otherwise, like 553 00:29:12,359 --> 00:29:14,759 you said, Rick, the white clover is kind of the 554 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:17,519 gold standard I was also reading an article that talked 555 00:29:17,559 --> 00:29:22,839 about strawberry clover, which is actually a species of clover, 556 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,960 but they said that it has been difficult to produce 557 00:29:25,039 --> 00:29:28,119 and find so worth looking into. Perhaps you can find 558 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,640 it at a feed store. But the biggest thing, you know, 559 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,359 we're talking about pushing your hardiness zone today because we 560 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,960 felt like this timing was right so that people could 561 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,279 actually take action and push the hardiness zone on some 562 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:41,839 plants they're interested in this season. I have always heard 563 00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:44,359 that the best time to establish a clover lawn is 564 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,400 in full yes, and in more certain terms than just like, oh, 565 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,240 you know, the best time to plant alawn is fall, 566 00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:52,079 but spring is okay. I have heard that, you know, really, 567 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,000 especially because it is more expensive than grass seed, your 568 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,839 best stuff. Putting your your efforts in full well. 569 00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:00,279 Speaker 1: Have to soak the seed and your right state. See 570 00:30:00,279 --> 00:30:03,240 fall well, as far as turf is concerned, falls better 571 00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:06,839 also because you don't have the competition of those weeds 572 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:10,160 that are aggressive at that time of the year. And 573 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,039 then of course summer can be very stressful on a 574 00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:16,599 lawn or clover. So I would agree fall is a 575 00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:19,759 great time and if you've got a lot of landscape 576 00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,519 plants that you love and you want a clover lawn. 577 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,440 If you don't have barriers, bear in mind you're also 578 00:30:26,519 --> 00:30:28,000 going to attract bunny rabbits. 579 00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:31,279 Speaker 2: Oh yes, I have tried to grow ornamental clovers before, 580 00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:34,279 the really pretty ones that just that came out a 581 00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:36,240 couple of years ago. I mean because I love them. 582 00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:39,519 I love clover and I love fur lyf clovers. And yeah, 583 00:30:39,559 --> 00:30:42,160 those lasted about a night if that, maybe like an 584 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,680 hour of the first hour of the evening, and the 585 00:30:44,759 --> 00:30:47,400 rabbits were like, hey, everybody party te time. There's fresh 586 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,799 clover over here. They do really love it. And you know, 587 00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:53,680 that's really another challenge for the fall is because by 588 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,319 then food is starting to get a little bit more scarce, 589 00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:59,720 things have died back, so you may want to cover 590 00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:03,400 those areas are somehow otherwise exclude rabbits. You can try 591 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,880 using a repellent. And maybe you don't have problems with 592 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,799 rabbits either. And you live in this magical faeryland where 593 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,279 there's no rabbits and no crab grass and nutsedge in 594 00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:15,599 your in your in, your clover lawn is going to 595 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,359 grow in beautifully. Uh, it could happen. 596 00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:21,319 Speaker 1: And kudos to you. Kathy for trying. Yeah, like the 597 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,640 like the old Yankee New York Yankees catcher Yogi Bearra said, 598 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,319 it ain't over until it's clover, so give it a trick, right. 599 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:31,599 Speaker 2: And I've also heard that that you know your your 600 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,240 strategy here, Kathy, with mixing in patches of clover with 601 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,440 you know, conventional turf grass. That if just a quarter 602 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:43,160 of your lawn was clover and you multi the clipping 603 00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:45,720 so you don't bag them, you let them just lie 604 00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:49,160 as they go, that you will have You'll serve all 605 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,400 of the lawns nitrogen needs just by the existence of 606 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,680 the clover, because it's fixing it from the ground that 607 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,119 goes into the foliage and by decomposing the foliage, you're 608 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,359 actually fertilizing your lawn the grass in your lawn when 609 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:01,680 you mow. 610 00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: So and I would think that probably do a little 611 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,160 research on this, but you may have to look into 612 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,480 it an inoculant at the time when you seed, so 613 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,799 soaking the seeds, some stratification in inoculant. But then you 614 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:19,119 can be successful, certainly in Michigan you can. 615 00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:21,839 Speaker 2: And it's very long lived. It's a good perennial plant 616 00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:24,759 that's going to keep sewing, so keep us posted on 617 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:26,920 the project. I would love to hear more about it. 618 00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:28,960 With that, we are going to take a little break. 619 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,640 When we come back, we're finishing our conversation on pushing 620 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:40,440 your hardiness own, so stay tuned. Thanks for listening to 621 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,400 the Gardening Simplified podcast, brought to you by Proven Winners 622 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,759 Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens 623 00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:49,920 are trialed and tested by experts with your success in mind. 624 00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:54,440 Learn more at Proven Winners color Choice dot com. 625 00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:57,759 Speaker 1: Okay, it's been fun talking today about zone pushing. Let's 626 00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:00,799 touch on a couple of quick things. Stacey, I do 627 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:03,799 want to mention right off the bat that warm micro 628 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,720 climates micro cannot defeat macro. In other words, this past 629 00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:12,519 winter was so cold it could have killed it all. 630 00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:16,640 I'm thinking about my Peruvian lilies the Ulster area, still 631 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,279 waiting to see if they made it. And if it's 632 00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:23,480 killed below ground, well then it's over. But it brings 633 00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:29,680 up the point that you can successfully zone push by 634 00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:34,160 mulching heavily in winter. And it's a good reminder that 635 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,000 mulch is not permanent. And what I mean by that 636 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,920 is you could pile on the mulch for winter, similar 637 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,079 to what I do with my Musa bijoux. But then 638 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:47,160 in spring you got to remember to pull it back. 639 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and that's a good strategy. We didn't 640 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,319 We talked a lot about shrubs, because of course this 641 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,799 is proven winter's color choice shrubs, but the mulch strategy 642 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,279 is particularly effective for herbaceous perennials. Arbacious perennials die back 643 00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:04,200 to the ground completely. There are no parts above ground. 644 00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:06,079 So like when we have a fig, it's a woody plant, 645 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:09,039 those plants are parts are above ground. They have to 646 00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:11,239 survive the winter. The roots are probably gonna be okay 647 00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:15,199 when it comes to something like elstermeiria or you know, 648 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,960 the banana. Banana is actually a herbaceous perennial. They are 649 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,599 not trees exactly, so those can all benefit from, you know, 650 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,880 that thick pile of mulch. And I have also seen 651 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,519 at a public garden of State New York Stonecrop Gardens 652 00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:34,119 in near cold Spring. Fabulous, fabulous garden. If you are 653 00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:36,039 in the New York City area and are looking for 654 00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:39,199 an amazing garden to visit, It's only open sometimes, but wow, 655 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:44,880 what an amazing place. They were overwintering a gunnera so 656 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:49,400 you know, yes, I mean, who doesn't love a gunner Yes, 657 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,599 giant rubar has these massive, massive leaves and it's really 658 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:57,159 considered a pretty tender plant. Grows perfectly swell out in 659 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,599 Oregon and in England, but yeah, definitely tender. So they 660 00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:05,639 had a gunnerra that they heaped a mulch and manure on, 661 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,719 and then they built a box for it out of 662 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,960 those thick syrophoam insulation panels. 663 00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: Oh interesting. 664 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, And they just used like some screws to screw 665 00:35:18,159 --> 00:35:20,440 it all together into like a big house around it. 666 00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:23,480 And they had been keeping that gunnarra for some time. 667 00:35:23,679 --> 00:35:28,199 Speaker 1: That way, I hate to admit that I have participated 668 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,599 in some of these kinds of way an it's good, Yeah, 669 00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:34,480 I guess so, you know which which leads me to 670 00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:36,519 our next point. But before I go there, can you 671 00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:39,119 remind me what was the name of the botanical gardens? 672 00:35:39,199 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 2: Oh? Stone Crop Gardens, stone Crop, Oh, yeah, such an 673 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,840 amazing place. It's actually the personal garden of the gentleman 674 00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:49,000 who started the Garden Conservancy, Frank Kevit, So it was 675 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:53,159 his US garden. He also has like culture vole in Quebec. 676 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,280 That's his other garden. There's a documentary on that. But yeah, 677 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,000 just an absolutely beautiful, interesting, fun, fun guarden. 678 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,199 Speaker 1: Okay, excellent. Thanks for bringing that up. I'm going to 679 00:36:03,199 --> 00:36:05,519 add it to the list of places I want to go. 680 00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:08,119 It does bring up the point as long as we're 681 00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:10,880 talking about zone pushing, and that is some people will 682 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,880 try to push zones, not via panels or wind breaks 683 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,440 or micro climates, but rather by wrapping plants. And this 684 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,920 is a tough subject because I've seen some major mistakes 685 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:29,000 made out there. I've seen people take garbage bags or 686 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,639 sheet rolls of plastic with bungee cords and one of 687 00:36:34,679 --> 00:36:36,960 the worst things that you can do. If you want 688 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,639 to kill a plant, go ahead and do that, So 689 00:36:41,039 --> 00:36:45,920 don't wrap in that manner. Now, of course, burlap works 690 00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:49,960 quite well, burlap breeze and when I was in the 691 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,199 garden center industry Boy and Fall, we sold rolls and 692 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,079 rolls and rolls of burlap. Some people. I have seen 693 00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:02,800 some people who use lights thinking they're Christmas lights or 694 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:09,159 an incandescent bulb. Again, I don't recommend that. I think 695 00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:11,920 the key if you're going to provide some sort of 696 00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:15,920 wrap or protection is that you do have to have 697 00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:20,400 air movement, similar to the old styrofoam cones we used 698 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,320 to use on roses. Always recommended taking a pencil and 699 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,880 poking holes in the cone because otherwise stacy. Essentially you're 700 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,920 creating a microwave ome. 701 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, especially if the plants are not 702 00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:37,320 completely dormant when you do surround them, which is to 703 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,800 say they're still green and metabolizing, then all they're doing 704 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,440 is putting out water vapor that's going to then condense 705 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,280 in there and get it really soggy and bad news. 706 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,679 Speaker 1: So yes, exactly, high reflectivity on some surfaces on a home. 707 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:56,119 And again I'm one of these people who's always testing 708 00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:58,599 this issue. Am I picking up a half a zone, 709 00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:02,559 maybe as much as as a zone by planting near 710 00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:06,320 the foundation of the house, not on the north side 711 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,400 of the house, where the structural shade is unforgiving, but 712 00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:12,400 possibly on the west or the south side of the house, 713 00:38:13,159 --> 00:38:15,960 which brings up a point. And that is there has 714 00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:21,800 to be a reason why some orchards or people who 715 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,880 grow fruit or grapes grow them on a slope. A 716 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,719 slope provides better drainage, preventing wet feet and root rot, 717 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:39,159 but increased solar exposure, especially on south facing slopes again 718 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,039 is going to boost soil and air temperature for earlier 719 00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:47,159 ripening and better flavor. So maybe the fruit people are 720 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,519 onto something there. 721 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good way to use a slope too. 722 00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:55,159 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. And paying attention to the water issue. If 723 00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:58,639 a plant sits in water all winter long, odds are 724 00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:01,039 you're going to lose it. And we've talked about plants 725 00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:04,119 that just cannot handle their wet feet or winter long. 726 00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:10,320 Raised beds are another way to kind of at least 727 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,559 maybe not push the zone, but advance the season because 728 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,280 soil that is above ground, especially if it's a sizable 729 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,960 amount of soil in a raised bed, that soil is 730 00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:26,719 going to warm up quicker in spring, and in many 731 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,199 cases we can get an earlier start, especially if you 732 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,400 have some frost blankets where if we have a cold night, 733 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:39,840 you're able to cover some of those plants. Thermal mass 734 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:47,159 placing large rocks, water barrels, masonry near sensitive plants to 735 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:52,960 absorb and release heat, wind breaks, using fences, hedges, woven 736 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:57,679 panels to block cold wind, especially from the north or 737 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,440 the west, and then if you really want to take 738 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,199 it to the next level. Well, cold frames, Oh yeah, 739 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:06,719 cold frame. 740 00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 2: May that works so so well for shrubs or perennials, 741 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,599 but it's definitely a season extender. 742 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: Well again, and I remember being on Cape cod and 743 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:19,159 the frustration of people during a polar vortex winter, which 744 00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:22,119 doesn't happen every winter, But they got to the point 745 00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:26,079 Stacy where there are Macrophila hydranges. They were planting in 746 00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:30,960 large seven gallon tubs and then digging an area of 747 00:40:31,079 --> 00:40:35,400 soil out, framing it with wood and creating a frame, 748 00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:38,800 so to speak, to overwinter the plants. Because there's a 749 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,000 lot of pressure on them. People come in summer expecting 750 00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:45,079 to see hydranges in bloom, not foliage. 751 00:40:45,199 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for sure. You know. I think there's two 752 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,159 things that stick out to me about this whole conversation. 753 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,159 Number one is that people need to know that the 754 00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:01,239 hardiness zones on a plant tag are general kind of assumptions. 755 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: Exactly. 756 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,800 Speaker 2: It's not like there has been extensive scientific says. I 757 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,400 hate to break this to you if you thought that 758 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,119 there was some you know, authority here last we were 759 00:41:09,199 --> 00:41:12,159 talking about invasive plants and all the authorities involved in 760 00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:14,800 invasive plants. It's just the opposite here. Yes, the heartiness 761 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,159 own system is administered by the USDA, but there has 762 00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:22,760 never been a massive study where everybody, you know, kind 763 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,239 of collected all the data and they said, definitively, this 764 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,280 plant is hardy to hear and hate tolerant to hear. 765 00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:29,320 So we do the best that we can, you know, 766 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,199 And a lot of these are assumptions, but that's an 767 00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:35,199 opportunity for you to break the other thing that you know. 768 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:36,840 I think that it's important that we kind of as 769 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,719 we're winding down this conversation bring up is that very often, 770 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,639 if you are the kind of gardener who wants to 771 00:41:42,639 --> 00:41:46,159 push your hardiness zone, you're probably going to have to 772 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,119 either order your plants online or visit a garden center 773 00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:53,760 in another state, because chances are your garden center is 774 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,800 only selling stuff that they believe to be hearty to 775 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,119 your area. A lot of them, yes they should be, 776 00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:01,440 because a lot of them offer a guarantee, so they're 777 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,480 not really going out on a limb and saying, hey, 778 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,840 i'll bet you're an experimental gardener. Here's some fun stuff. 779 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,039 Give it a try. So you do have to kind 780 00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,079 of go the extra step to the garden center as 781 00:42:10,119 --> 00:42:12,719 much as we encourage you to shop at your local 782 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,840 independent garden center, if you're pushing your hard in a zone, 783 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,440 it's probably not the best place to start to start, 784 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,760 although certainly take a road trip down to the next 785 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,559 harding a zone or one down from there and see 786 00:42:24,559 --> 00:42:25,239 what you can find. 787 00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:29,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, which brings up the point. I think that mid 788 00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:35,800 section of the US Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, southern Ohio, 789 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,800 southern Indiana, Illinois, Well, you guys live in a great area, 790 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,199 because if there's an area there where I would be 791 00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:46,480 putting my foot on the gas and really zone pushing, 792 00:42:47,039 --> 00:42:50,159 it would be there. I mean, you know, because odds 793 00:42:50,199 --> 00:42:53,480 are here in Michigan we're going to get a cold winter, 794 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:59,440 but boy, I would gamble. So in summary here, Stacy, 795 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,199 do you think it's a good idea to suggest to 796 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,800 people that they zone push. 797 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,599 Speaker 2: I think if you are the type of person who 798 00:43:06,679 --> 00:43:09,840 likes to learn from your gardening, have something no one 799 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,559 else has, and you're willing to possibly take a little 800 00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:16,119 bit of a loss for all of that potential gain. 801 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,559 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I feel the same way. Of course, I 802 00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:23,719 could be criticized because, again, having worked in the garden center, 803 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,159 my industry my whole life. I mean the business of 804 00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:32,519 selling plans, but aside from that, what I do personally 805 00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:35,519 I zone push. I do too, you bet. Thanks Stacy, 806 00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:38,559 thanks Rick, Thanks Adriana, and thanks to you for watching 807 00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:43,239 us on YouTube, downloading our podcast, or listening to our 808 00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:46,440 radio show version. Have yourself a great week