Speaker 1: Broadcasting from Studio A here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs.
It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella, me,
Rick Weist, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Today, Stacey,
we go to the danger zone. I love this. I
feel the need for seed, not speed seed whatever. Zone pushing.
So you may have heard of a method of gardening
called zone pushing, where homeowners and gardeners figuring out ways
to plant grow items that don't usually live or survive
in their heartiness zone. So maybe we're pushing things one,
maybe two zones beyond what our normal zone is. So
it's not zone ignoring, its zone pushing seeing what you
can get away with in your lands.
Speaker 2: You know, that's exactly it. And really I think this
is where gardening takes place, right when you dare to
stand up and experiments, yes with something. And you know,
this is a topic that has come up through the
many years we've been doing the show here and there,
and you know, it always seems to come up, I
don't know, in like summer or fall or something, which
is the exact time that you cannot do anything for
most areas. Certainly if you're trying to push a warmer zone,
plant into a colder zone, plant into a colder zone.
You can't do it then, so I wanted to, you know,
I thought we should do the show when people can
actually take advantage of the coming spring to maybe try
to push some hardiness zones rather than just go yeah,
I should really do that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I love that because I've been doing that for years.
It's kind of like high stakes gambling with your landscape
and plant heartiness. But also tied into the whole mix
is development of your landscape using things like backdrops, barriers,
the home, plants, trees, elevations, et cetera, et cetera, to
landscape and create what we would call micro climates where
some of these plants can exist. Does a wall get
you maybe half a zone planting in the city, maybe
half a zone near a river, quarter zone against a house,
or if you've got a glass porch, a full zone,
a southern exposure and slope. You know, this is how
my brain works, Okay, And especially living in the north,
as you leave winter, it is very telling if you
have a slope that faces the south, how quickly the
ice and snow go away. Whereas an area of the home,
let's say that is subject to structural shade, or on
the north side that ice and snow seems to last forever,
or all the way some of the piles all the
way into June feels that way, and I'm exaggerating. You
really get a good feel for micro climates and your
potential for pushing zones.
Speaker 2: That's a great point because not only is spring the
time that you can actually take action on trying to
push the hardiness zones of some plants that you really
wish you could grow, but it's also the perfect time
to observe and find out what those micro climates you
know potentially are in your yard. Are there things, Are
there places that you notice, yeah, where the snow melts first.
Are there places where things emerge more quickly than in
other parts of your yard or bloom a little bit
more quickly. So now is the time to kind of
pick up on all of those little cubes, because there's
so much easier to see in winter, when we're just
much more attuned to every little thing that happens in
the landscape.
Speaker 1: And getting a jump start on the season. So I'll
start you right off with my limb A rick for today.
I already I love Lieutenant Pete Maverick Mitchell and Goose
in the nineteen eighty six movie Top Gun and their
famous line in Unison, I feel the need, the need
for speed, but it essentially points out their risk taking character.
I have a tendency to be a risk taker. In
the landscape test the limits of what could be grown
without use of a plant hormone, ignoring heartiness recommendations, I
defy expectations, and yes, I went to the danger zone.
The boundaries all exceed no place for those who are
weak need a plant with staying power, permission to buzz
the flower. I feel the need for seed. Sorry, I
took some liberties there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's fair Limerick after all.
Speaker 1: But you know, when we talk about this subject, Stacy,
one of the things that comes to mind for me
is for me trying to get a jump start on
the season with my cannas and my dahlias or my
beloved banana trees that I try to overwinter by heavily
mulching and then bordering it with boulders, because again stone
can absorb light heat and be valuable. Raised beds or
boulders around that area absorb heat, so I have that,
and in your landscape you're dealing with the fig trees.
Speaker 2: Yes, trying to grow a fig and actually quite successfully,
although we shall see what this past winter did to
our fig knock on wood right now it looks pretty great.
But yeah, you know, when you were talking about that,
I was thinking about figs, and not just my own figs,
but also in England, where of course have a very
mild climate, but it never really gets very hot, so't
they don't have the cold to worry about to get
figs through the season, but they also never really have
enough warmth to ripen. So back I think it was
like in the nineteen twenties, this concept of a fig
dome became quite popular where they would plant the figs
against these metal domes kind of turned over like an
umbrella and train the branches over the dome and the
fig dome the metal would absorb the heat in an
attempt to ripen the figs. So sometimes it's not just
about you know, whether the plant can grow, it's about getting,
you know, the thing that you want. So you know,
another great example of that. I love camelias. I think
they're just one of the most beautiful ornamental, useful plants
out there. They're deer resistant, their flowers are amazing, and
so I have attempted to grow camellias at multiple points
here in Michigan, and what I often found was that
I could get the plant to live, but that by
the time it would bloom and fall, and usually the
fall blooming camellias are the much more cold tolerant than
the winter and spring blooming camelias, that by the time
fall came around, it was just too cold anymore for
those flowers to actually open. So sometimes it's not solely
a matter of survival. It's a matter of getting the
plant to do what you want it to do in
your climate.
Speaker 1: I like that. I appreciate the fact that you shared
that because for people keeping score at home, stay both
Stacey and I live in West Michigan along the lake
shore where i'm six B yeah six B yeah, six B,
and generally when I look at camellias, they say seven
If you're providing protection seven B, maybe you'd be okay.
And so it's one of those plants that perfectly fits
that pushing the zone example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we've had them survive quite well here
right outside studio A in fact, as well as in
our trial garden not far away from here. The question
is just whether or not they flower. Unfortunately, the foliage
is attractive enough. But also it's just kind of cool
to amaze your friends, whether they're gardening friends or not,
and say, hey, hey, here's my camellia. I've been growing
it for five years, and they'll be like, so, you know,
and one time I visited it. One time I visited
a public garden in North Carolina. This happened to me
as a professional horticulturist. So I visited this public garden
in North Carolina and they're showing me around and she says,
and here's our taxes. And I just gave her the
most blank look of my entire life. And they're like
waiting for me to have a reaction. And I had
no idea that it was a massive deal that they
were growing at taxis just a regular old you know
you of course they can grow cephalo taxes. So it
was quite lost on me that this was a special thing.
So I was like, yeah, taxes, okay, but you know,
it's I think a good theme for this show. The
grass is always greener on the other side.
Speaker 1: You've got it, and things are always bigger in taxis right,
But I'm glad you brought that up because when you're
dealing with your yard, your yard is not uniform, so
it's a number of micro climates. I try to create
some micro climates. I'm using these aluminum corrugated panels as
backdrops increase the light. Of course, some homes are brick absorbs.
There are different types of coverings you can put on
your home that will reflect more light maybe help. Some
spots are warmer, some are colder, some are wind sheltered,
and it's important to note also that some are more
damp than others. And if you have standing water, for example,
around roots. We've talked about this before, your odds of
success are far far lower if you do not have
good drainage. There's a huge difference between a south facing
slope on a home and the north side of the home.
So the key is to map and manipulate those niches,
so to speak, and then go out there and do
a little bit of gambling. Because Stacy, you mentioned Camellia's
I want to grow them here in Michigan. Another one
that I really want to grow, and of course, I
do have the potential of doing it is crape myrtle?
Speaker 2: Yep, oh for sure. Definitely that's much harder than people
thought exactly.
Speaker 1: So let's see how Stacey ties this in and plants
on trial. That's coming up next here on the Gardening
Simplified Show.
Speaker 2: Beautify your home and community with Proven Winner's Color Choice
shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties
to choose from. There's a flowering shrub or evergreen for
every taste and every space. Just look for the distinctive
white container your local garden center or learn more at
proven Winners Color Choice dot com. You're Reading's Gardening friends,
and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where we
are sharing our ideas and tips on how you can
push your heartiness own. Now, this stuff applies to shrubs, perennials,
even maybe to some extent trees, and you know, really,
what we're kind of recommending is that if you want
to grow something that is one one zone hardier, in
most cases, probably a pretty good chance of success. Two
zones hardier, maybe less of a chance. But the point
is the number one thing that you want to do
when you are pushing your herd in a zone is
give the plant the longest possible time to get established
before winter, which you know, again we're talking about a
plant's ability to withstand cold, and we're trying to push that.
A plant that was planted in fall and only had
you know, two or three months to get established before
winter sets in is definitely not going to be as
prepared to deal with those challenges as something that you
plant in spring that is then going to be able
to have, you know, all of the height of the
growing season to develop those roots and put on some
good body to help it withstand the winter. Also doesn't
hurt if you end up with a couple of mild
winters in a row. That kind of helps it put
on a little bit more bulk. And you always do
have to kind of be prepared for the worst to happen.
Oh yeah, you know. But also you can be like
that's a learning experience too, you know it's but.
Speaker 1: Then when you have a victory, I mean that risk
taking is.
Speaker 2: Makes it work, absolutely so. Rick, let me ask you
if you could grow one plant from outside your zone.
We're not even just saying like it's possible to grow
in Michigan, just like you can now have one plant
magically grow in your yard. What is it easy? Okay?
Palm trees Okay, that's a lot. That's a big group
of plants.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know with any plant Pho, phoenix, ROI palms. Okay,
well what about like a palms?
Speaker 2: What about the palmettows? It s all palmettos like they
heave in South Carolina. Because there's a chance you would
be able to grow that, I'd say, and but quite there.
Speaker 1: Right, believe me, I've thought. But then this past year
that polar vortex win winter that we went through, but
I'm not bitter about it put me back in my place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's worth it for me. I would have
to say. It would either be a lemon tree or
an avocado tree.
Speaker 1: Oh ms, wouldn't that be great?
Speaker 2: Would it just be so amazing to just like go
out your backyard and pick lemons whenever you wanted to?
Speaker 1: Coconut trees?
Speaker 2: So you know, I know, we sometimes get accused, and
rightfully so, from our warm climate listeners that were not
you know, giving enough attention to them.
Speaker 1: But we can flip it on its ear right, I
mean they how about if they push things like lilacs
or something.
Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about that it's plants on Trial,
but I just thought i'd introduce it by us sharing
what we wish we could grow from your warmer climates,
because again, the grass is always greener on the other side. Yeah, So,
in thinking about plants on Trial for today, I thought
about my many years of talking with various home gardeners
from all over the country, and I came up with
a top list of plants that people in cold climates
wish they could grow, as well as a list of
people in hot climates wish that they could grow that
are too cold. Too cold toller, Okay, excellent. So and
these are not in any particular order. They're just kind
of as they came to me. But so my list
of people that in cold climates wish that they could
grow or at least grow successfully. Number one big leaf
hydrangea hydrange of Macrophylla. You know there's and that's one
of those plants that kind of goes along with what
we were talking about in the last segment, where you
know the plant can grow like you will have a
hydrange of macrophilla or big leaf hydrangel. This is the
kind of the pink, purple or blue flowers. The planet
itself will survive, but just that it hadn't because you
never get a single flower on it, at least if
it's an old fashioned variety. You know, as we've said before,
we're working really hard on that here at Pervumina's Colored
Choice Shrubs. So if if you are one of these
cold climate gardeners who dearly wish you could have those
fabulous big blue globe flowers on a hydrangea, I would
encourage you to add lightstance, sky view, continuous blooming Hydrangea
to your list. It is hardy to USDA zone four,
and we have heard success stories down in you zoned
for In fact, I even heard from a gardener who
was growing it and get ready for this, he was
in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Whoa, yeah, Now he was protecting it.
I will say that because that's his zone three. But
it was flowering and doing great. So you know, that's
one that can be easily resolved by picking the right variety,
which is another strategy that you can use in pushing
hardiness zones. For example, if you want to grow rosemary,
the variety arparp Is known to be much hardier than
other types of rosemary, so sometimes it's worth looking into
is there a specific variety that will work next on
the list. I hear this from a lot of Zone
four gardeners because they're just not quite at the threshold
Rosa Sharon. Oh really, Well, you know, it's a pretty
beloved plant, and I think, you know, if you're in
Zone four, you're just kind of like so close and
yet so far when it comes to growing Rosa Sharon.
And you know, I have to confess, even though a
lot of people feel like roses of Sharon are kind
of just a ho home plant, there are very few
other shrubs that bloom that much and look that great.
They attract hummingbirds, they attract pollinators.
Speaker 1: And at that time of year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're dead easy to grow. I mean, you
don't have to do a single darn thing. So definitely
hearing that from the Zone four and colder gardeners. I
hear from a lot of cold climate gardeners that they
wish they could grow are perfected mundo azaleas. And you know,
that's a situation where you know, when I talk to
gardeners about that, that's really a perfect example of how
the hardiness zone system fails us Now, the hardiness zone
USDA Hardiness oon system is the only system that we
have for determining a plant's temperature tolerance. But of course
it's not perfect. Few systems are. But the issue here
is that, you know, yes, perfected Mundo azaleas are hardy
down to Zone six B. They have overwintered here, but
not all USDA Zone six B areas are the same.
And when we're only talking about the lowest temperature in
area will get, then we're not you know, you know,
involving other factors like how long does it say that
cold and is there snow cover and all of these
other things. So you know, absolutely perfecting wind to azalels
will do great on the east coast sort of in
that southeast Delaware kind of area do perfectly well. But
you know, when you get into the Midwest and six bees,
things are a little bit different. Crepe myrtle is another one,
and that's that's when I feel like, you know, yes,
of course we do have varieties that we are finding
bloom perfectly swell even down to USCA Zone five. They
may die back to the ground, but because they are
shrubby crape myrtles. It doesn't matter, you're not losing this
whole huge plant. They just come back from the ground.
But I also feel like that's a plant that as
it has become more mainstream and thanks to the Internet
where people are better able to share their experiences, are
finding out it's a little bit more cold tolerant than
they thought. And of course my favorite camellia. So that's
the quick end of my quick list for cold climate
gardeners wishing that they could grow. Definitely, you already said it, Rick.
The number one plant that I hear from warm climate
gardeners that they dearly wish they could grow is lilacs.
And you know, I don't even I think it's just
a transplants, you know, people who grew up in colder
climates and found themselves moving to a warmer climate. I mean,
they're just kind of like the epitome of like a
romantic spring plants fragrance, I mean, and they really are
an extraordinary fragrance. And you know they're even here in
the North. I have to say, they bloom all too short,
especially lately where it tends to get a little bit
warmer in May, those blooms can be very very short lived.
But lilocks. You know, it's harder for our friends in
warm climates to grow something like a lilac, And you
don't really have the advantage that we have of starting
earlier in the season and trying to get it established
because the problem with the lilacs they strictly need a
cold treatment, a period of cold temperatures in order to
set and develop their flower buds. And that's not something
you can really get around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: You know, unless you're gonna kind of ring up some
sort of elaborate refrigerator system that's going to be in
your yard all winter, chill in the plants.
Speaker 1: You're not going to be able to fix it with
shading trying to cool it.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Just can't get it fire.
Speaker 2: Enough, so it does. That does make a difference. Panicle
hydrange is now, that's another plant people in warm climates
can grow them. We just moved all of our panicle
hydrange of heat tolerance to USDA Zone nine based on
feedback from our growers and from our new plant development
manager who grew up in the South. But you know,
as fabulous as they are, they don't really turn great colors.
So they don't only wish that they could grow panicle
hydrange as they can, they wish that they could get
that fabulous pink, purple, pink red color that we get
up here. Now, this one is not a shrub, But boy,
have I heard from a lot of warm climate.
Speaker 1: Garden where you're going here now? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, p andies. Yeah, And so that I think is
a great example of how we as a cold climate
gardener can feel comforted by something. I mean, because how
fabulous are peonies.
Speaker 1: And p andies embrace cold web.
Speaker 2: They love it. Yeah, they need it, they absolutely need it.
So you know, we can be grateful we might be
able to grow a lemon, but we can grow a
pa andy and the grass is always greener. On the
other side, the other one, hear a lot from warm
climate peeps blacklace elderberry. Really yes, because even though this
plant the planet itself will grow, what it will not
do in warm climates is turned black. The heat is
just too intense and it kind of gets this weird
muddy green color. Okay, So you know, unfortunately, like I said,
for our warm climate friends, it is a little bit
harder for you to do to take the measures that
we can take in cold climates like this, where we
can plant and spring, we can choose protected areas, we
can research and find varieties that are more suited. Although
you can do that warm climate friends to a certain extent,
there is such a thing as low chill lilacs that
require fewer chilling hours. And so the way you will
figure those out is if you look at that heartiness
zone range on a plant. If it goes up to
say zone eight instead of just zone seven, like our
centaur lilocs do versus our bloomerang lilacs, that means they
require fewer chilling hours. So with a little bit of
research you can find that. But you know, I would
also say that if we all look into our gardens
and do some self examination, I think we can all
be pretty happy at the things that we can grow,
and despite wishing what else we could grow, I think
we can be pretty happy with you. Right on that note,
we're going to take a little break and when we
come back, we're opening up the mailbags. So stay tuned
at proven winners color choice shrubs. We know that a
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to accentuate your home and express your personal style, look
for Proven Winners shrubs in the distinctive white container at
your local garden center or learn more at proven Winner's
Color choice dot com. Creating's gardening friends and welcome back
to the Gardening Simplified Show. Where is our pleasure to
help you with your gardens questions, quandaries and conundrums. And
if you have one of those, you can reach out
to us at help at Gardening Simplified on air dot com,
or just visit Gardeningsimplified on air dot com. There's a
contact from there. You can even attach a picture, and
you can also ask a question on our YouTube comments.
Adriana reads all of those and asks for help if
she needs it. Otherwise, you know, Adurana knows a lot,
so she can answer most of them on her own.
But so there's lots of different ways that we can
try to help you, especially if your question is maybe
not all that amenable to asking on the radio, because
you know, we have limited time, and sometimes things are
like very complicated and I'm using my hands a lot,
and you know all of that, and it's not easy
to answer, So you know, we want it to be
like I could, I could go on forever on some questions,
so as Adriana can certainly attest. So anyway, we would
love to hear from you, and we do appreciate you
listening and asking your questions. So we have someone who
has a question specifically for you. Her name is Kathy,
and she says, I am going to Amsterdam and Brussels
April nineteenth to twenty eighth. Of course I want to
see tulips and gardens. Would you be willing to share
with me the gardens you visited on your recent trip,
in particular the tulip fields. Thank you?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Well, I'll tell you what. Both my parents
were born and raised in the Netherlands, survived World War two,
the hunger winter in the Netherlands of nineteen forty four
forty five eight tulip bulbs to stay alive. So they
were born in an area just south of Amsterdam. And
if you focus your attention on the area, I'm thinking
it's just south and west of Amsterdam. It's an area
called Lissa l i ss. The fields in that area
are beautiful, so you can I mean, first stop, you
have to go to Koykinhoff Gardens.
Speaker 2: I mean it's just kind of the gold standard.
Speaker 1: Oh it's the gold standard. I mean it's since it's
absolutely beautiful. But I found myself pulling off to the
side along the roadways in that general area taking photographs
of the fields. And the funnest thing that I got
to do in that regard to address Kathy's question, and
I'm gonna go back and do it again, is you
can rent a bike. Bikes are big in the Netherlands.
Everybody's riding a bike. And you rent a bike and
you leave the Koikanhoff area and you pedal around areas
like Halvec I think it's pronounced or Lisa. You're able
to get up close and personal with these fields where
they're actually growing these bulbs. And I have numerous pictures
of that, took video, just just loved it, and that's
what I would recommend you do. Get on a bike.
You can rent the bike, I believe right near Koikanhoff,
right near the gardens there, and then head out on
these beautifully paved trails and see some of these fields
for yourself.
Speaker 2: And it's known to be very flat, which is why
it's so great for tulips. So you don't have to
worry about, you know, getting winded on those hills and
it's just going to have a very pleasant bike. Right now,
What do you think about that timing? Do you think
the tulips will still be at peak in mid to
late April?
Speaker 1: No, that's always a roll of the dice. When I've
been there, it's been mid April, right smack dab in
mid April, and it was beautiful. I would think April
nineteen to twenty eight, you should be in good shape.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think. I mean there's late tulips, of course,
you know there's early, mid and late tulips. And that's
why down here in Holland, in Michigan you can usually
catch some tulips even if we have an early spring,
because they make sure to plant that full range. And
you know, I've been to Amsterdam once many years ago.
It was in late spring, and I really found that
all of Amsterdam was like a garden. I mean, you
know when I was there, the horse chestnuts were in bloom.
There were baby ducks in the canals, and it was
it was a ferryland.
Speaker 1: It was just the country beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And that's the other thing I'd suggest to Kathy is
is I rented a car. I got off the plane
and got my rental car and I pretty much drove
all of Holland. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And like you said, Stacey, it's flat, so you know.
And if you were to rent a bike, if you could,
if pedling looks sounds like a lot of work to you,
you can get electric.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well yeah, e bikes are everywhere now, right, And
I think there is a small botanical garden in Amsterdam
propers if you are seeing in a hotel. I visited
that and found it was quite lovely. But really everywhere
you go, I mean, and like most of Europe, you know,
just there's just so much more planting, yes, and plants
and venerable old trees and parks everywhere in most places
that you just kind of always have that sense that
you're you're never really far away from some fabulous plants.
Speaker 1: So focus on the Lissa area.
Speaker 2: L I s s all right, we have a different
question from a question from a different cafee. O. She
says Hi. We living grand rapids in this spring. We
want to plant a lawn alternative to grass. We're looking
at clover. We can't physically do the entire yard, but
we have large patches that we want to fill in
with clover. Can you give any advice and when to
plant and the best way. We'd also like to know
what's the best clover seed to purchase. You have any
experience with clover lawns as our resident lawn.
Speaker 1: Expert, Well, we used to at the garden center sell
a lot of white clover. And of course clover is
nitrogen fixing, so you're dealing with something that's quite different
from turf because stacy with turf, it seems like we're
always out there pumping down the fertilizer and putting in
the inputs, whereas with clover. With clover you don't. So again,
soil preparation similar to if you're going to be planting
grass seed, and of course a concern if it's in
a sunny area. Did you have experience with crab grass
and nuts edge last year? If you didn't, great, but
if you did, you may find that as you try
to seed this, you're going to have some competition from
those weeds as the weather starts to warm up, and
that can make it a little bit difficult.
Speaker 2: If you didn't have crabgrass and nutsedge. I want to
know your secret, Please let me know. Yeah. I love
the idea of clover as a long alternative. It's so pretty,
you know, it says grain all season you can look
for four leaf clovers and how fun is that? And
you know, and then you got the flowers that attract bees. Now,
some people don't like that, but just because it attracts
and sustains bees does not mean it is going to
increase the beastings in your yard because the bees are
too happy gathering the nectar from the clover flowers. That said,
there are two main types of clover that are recommended
as lawns. Number one is a mini clover, and you'll
find various varieties of this, but if you search mini clover,
that one is going to have much smaller leaves and
be much closer to the ground. So if you want
more of that kind of conventional, well groomed lawn, look,
a mini clover is the way to go. Otherwise, like
you said, Rick, the white clover is kind of the
gold standard I was also reading an article that talked
about strawberry clover, which is actually a species of clover,
but they said that it has been difficult to produce
and find so worth looking into. Perhaps you can find
it at a feed store. But the biggest thing, you know,
we're talking about pushing your hardiness zone today because we
felt like this timing was right so that people could
actually take action and push the hardiness zone on some
plants they're interested in this season. I have always heard
that the best time to establish a clover lawn is
in full yes, and in more certain terms than just like, oh,
you know, the best time to plant alawn is fall,
but spring is okay. I have heard that, you know, really,
especially because it is more expensive than grass seed, your
best stuff. Putting your your efforts in full well.
Speaker 1: Have to soak the seed and your right state. See
fall well, as far as turf is concerned, falls better
also because you don't have the competition of those weeds
that are aggressive at that time of the year. And
then of course summer can be very stressful on a
lawn or clover. So I would agree fall is a
great time and if you've got a lot of landscape
plants that you love and you want a clover lawn.
If you don't have barriers, bear in mind you're also
going to attract bunny rabbits.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, I have tried to grow ornamental clovers before,
the really pretty ones that just that came out a
couple of years ago. I mean because I love them.
I love clover and I love fur lyf clovers. And yeah,
those lasted about a night if that, maybe like an
hour of the first hour of the evening, and the
rabbits were like, hey, everybody party te time. There's fresh
clover over here. They do really love it. And you know,
that's really another challenge for the fall is because by
then food is starting to get a little bit more scarce,
things have died back, so you may want to cover
those areas are somehow otherwise exclude rabbits. You can try
using a repellent. And maybe you don't have problems with
rabbits either. And you live in this magical faeryland where
there's no rabbits and no crab grass and nutsedge in
your in your in, your clover lawn is going to
grow in beautifully. Uh, it could happen.
Speaker 1: And kudos to you. Kathy for trying. Yeah, like the
like the old Yankee New York Yankees catcher Yogi Bearra said,
it ain't over until it's clover, so give it a trick, right.
Speaker 2: And I've also heard that that you know your your
strategy here, Kathy, with mixing in patches of clover with
you know, conventional turf grass. That if just a quarter
of your lawn was clover and you multi the clipping
so you don't bag them, you let them just lie
as they go, that you will have You'll serve all
of the lawns nitrogen needs just by the existence of
the clover, because it's fixing it from the ground that
goes into the foliage and by decomposing the foliage, you're
actually fertilizing your lawn the grass in your lawn when
you mow.
Speaker 1: So and I would think that probably do a little
research on this, but you may have to look into
it an inoculant at the time when you seed, so
soaking the seeds, some stratification in inoculant. But then you
can be successful, certainly in Michigan you can.
Speaker 2: And it's very long lived. It's a good perennial plant
that's going to keep sewing, so keep us posted on
the project. I would love to hear more about it.
With that, we are going to take a little break.
When we come back, we're finishing our conversation on pushing
your hardiness own, so stay tuned. Thanks for listening to
the Gardening Simplified podcast, brought to you by Proven Winners
Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens
are trialed and tested by experts with your success in mind.
Learn more at Proven Winners color Choice dot com.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's been fun talking today about zone pushing. Let's
touch on a couple of quick things. Stacey, I do
want to mention right off the bat that warm micro
climates micro cannot defeat macro. In other words, this past
winter was so cold it could have killed it all.
I'm thinking about my Peruvian lilies the Ulster area, still
waiting to see if they made it. And if it's
killed below ground, well then it's over. But it brings
up the point that you can successfully zone push by
mulching heavily in winter. And it's a good reminder that
mulch is not permanent. And what I mean by that
is you could pile on the mulch for winter, similar
to what I do with my Musa bijoux. But then
in spring you got to remember to pull it back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and that's a good strategy. We didn't
We talked a lot about shrubs, because of course this
is proven winter's color choice shrubs, but the mulch strategy
is particularly effective for herbaceous perennials. Arbacious perennials die back
to the ground completely. There are no parts above ground.
So like when we have a fig, it's a woody plant,
those plants are parts are above ground. They have to
survive the winter. The roots are probably gonna be okay
when it comes to something like elstermeiria or you know,
the banana. Banana is actually a herbaceous perennial. They are
not trees exactly, so those can all benefit from, you know,
that thick pile of mulch. And I have also seen
at a public garden of State New York Stonecrop Gardens
in near cold Spring. Fabulous, fabulous garden. If you are
in the New York City area and are looking for
an amazing garden to visit, It's only open sometimes, but wow,
what an amazing place. They were overwintering a gunnera so
you know, yes, I mean, who doesn't love a gunner Yes,
giant rubar has these massive, massive leaves and it's really
considered a pretty tender plant. Grows perfectly swell out in
Oregon and in England, but yeah, definitely tender. So they
had a gunnerra that they heaped a mulch and manure on,
and then they built a box for it out of
those thick syrophoam insulation panels.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they just used like some screws to screw
it all together into like a big house around it.
And they had been keeping that gunnarra for some time.
Speaker 1: That way, I hate to admit that I have participated
in some of these kinds of way an it's good, Yeah,
I guess so, you know which which leads me to
our next point. But before I go there, can you
remind me what was the name of the botanical gardens?
Speaker 2: Oh? Stone Crop Gardens, stone Crop, Oh, yeah, such an
amazing place. It's actually the personal garden of the gentleman
who started the Garden Conservancy, Frank Kevit, So it was
his US garden. He also has like culture vole in Quebec.
That's his other garden. There's a documentary on that. But yeah,
just an absolutely beautiful, interesting, fun, fun guarden.
Speaker 1: Okay, excellent. Thanks for bringing that up. I'm going to
add it to the list of places I want to go.
It does bring up the point as long as we're
talking about zone pushing, and that is some people will
try to push zones, not via panels or wind breaks
or micro climates, but rather by wrapping plants. And this
is a tough subject because I've seen some major mistakes
made out there. I've seen people take garbage bags or
sheet rolls of plastic with bungee cords and one of
the worst things that you can do. If you want
to kill a plant, go ahead and do that, So
don't wrap in that manner. Now, of course, burlap works
quite well, burlap breeze and when I was in the
garden center industry Boy and Fall, we sold rolls and
rolls and rolls of burlap. Some people. I have seen
some people who use lights thinking they're Christmas lights or
an incandescent bulb. Again, I don't recommend that. I think
the key if you're going to provide some sort of
wrap or protection is that you do have to have
air movement, similar to the old styrofoam cones we used
to use on roses. Always recommended taking a pencil and
poking holes in the cone because otherwise stacy. Essentially you're
creating a microwave ome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, especially if the plants are not
completely dormant when you do surround them, which is to
say they're still green and metabolizing, then all they're doing
is putting out water vapor that's going to then condense
in there and get it really soggy and bad news.
Speaker 1: So yes, exactly, high reflectivity on some surfaces on a home.
And again I'm one of these people who's always testing
this issue. Am I picking up a half a zone,
maybe as much as as a zone by planting near
the foundation of the house, not on the north side
of the house, where the structural shade is unforgiving, but
possibly on the west or the south side of the house,
which brings up a point. And that is there has
to be a reason why some orchards or people who
grow fruit or grapes grow them on a slope. A
slope provides better drainage, preventing wet feet and root rot,
but increased solar exposure, especially on south facing slopes again
is going to boost soil and air temperature for earlier
ripening and better flavor. So maybe the fruit people are
onto something there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good way to use a slope too.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. And paying attention to the water issue. If
a plant sits in water all winter long, odds are
you're going to lose it. And we've talked about plants
that just cannot handle their wet feet or winter long.
Raised beds are another way to kind of at least
maybe not push the zone, but advance the season because
soil that is above ground, especially if it's a sizable
amount of soil in a raised bed, that soil is
going to warm up quicker in spring, and in many
cases we can get an earlier start, especially if you
have some frost blankets where if we have a cold night,
you're able to cover some of those plants. Thermal mass
placing large rocks, water barrels, masonry near sensitive plants to
absorb and release heat, wind breaks, using fences, hedges, woven
panels to block cold wind, especially from the north or
the west, and then if you really want to take
it to the next level. Well, cold frames, Oh yeah,
cold frame.
Speaker 2: May that works so so well for shrubs or perennials,
but it's definitely a season extender.
Speaker 1: Well again, and I remember being on Cape cod and
the frustration of people during a polar vortex winter, which
doesn't happen every winter, But they got to the point
Stacy where there are Macrophila hydranges. They were planting in
large seven gallon tubs and then digging an area of
soil out, framing it with wood and creating a frame,
so to speak, to overwinter the plants. Because there's a
lot of pressure on them. People come in summer expecting
to see hydranges in bloom, not foliage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's for sure. You know. I think there's two
things that stick out to me about this whole conversation.
Number one is that people need to know that the
hardiness zones on a plant tag are general kind of assumptions.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: It's not like there has been extensive scientific says. I
hate to break this to you if you thought that
there was some you know, authority here last we were
talking about invasive plants and all the authorities involved in
invasive plants. It's just the opposite here. Yes, the heartiness
own system is administered by the USDA, but there has
never been a massive study where everybody, you know, kind
of collected all the data and they said, definitively, this
plant is hardy to hear and hate tolerant to hear.
So we do the best that we can, you know,
And a lot of these are assumptions, but that's an
opportunity for you to break the other thing that you know.
I think that it's important that we kind of as
we're winding down this conversation bring up is that very often,
if you are the kind of gardener who wants to
push your hardiness zone, you're probably going to have to
either order your plants online or visit a garden center
in another state, because chances are your garden center is
only selling stuff that they believe to be hearty to
your area. A lot of them, yes they should be,
because a lot of them offer a guarantee, so they're
not really going out on a limb and saying, hey,
i'll bet you're an experimental gardener. Here's some fun stuff.
Give it a try. So you do have to kind
of go the extra step to the garden center as
much as we encourage you to shop at your local
independent garden center, if you're pushing your hard in a zone,
it's probably not the best place to start to start,
although certainly take a road trip down to the next
harding a zone or one down from there and see
what you can find.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which brings up the point. I think that mid
section of the US Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, southern Ohio,
southern Indiana, Illinois, Well, you guys live in a great area,
because if there's an area there where I would be
putting my foot on the gas and really zone pushing,
it would be there. I mean, you know, because odds
are here in Michigan we're going to get a cold winter,
but boy, I would gamble. So in summary here, Stacy,
do you think it's a good idea to suggest to
people that they zone push.
Speaker 2: I think if you are the type of person who
likes to learn from your gardening, have something no one
else has, and you're willing to possibly take a little
bit of a loss for all of that potential gain.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I feel the same way. Of course, I
could be criticized because, again, having worked in the garden center,
my industry my whole life. I mean the business of
selling plans, but aside from that, what I do personally
I zone push. I do too, you bet. Thanks Stacy,
thanks Rick, Thanks Adriana, and thanks to you for watching
us on YouTube, downloading our podcast, or listening to our
radio show version. Have yourself a great week