WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.399 --> 00:00:03.120 It's Maria's Mutts and Stuff. 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:04.679 What a great idea. 3 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:13.480 On iHeartRadio, welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff and with me. Well, 4 00:00:13.519 --> 00:00:15.919 first of all, it's a thrill for me because she's 5 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:19.800 a returning guest. She's also a friend Michelle C. Hollow 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:24.640 and her book The Adventures of Mary Anning Jurassic Girl. 7 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:27.920 So Michelle, welcome back. I know it was. I had 8 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.120 to look it up. The last time we spoke on 9 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.439 Marias MutS and Stuff was October of twenty twenty one. Wow, 10 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:40.119 long time, yep, long time. So for my listeners who 11 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.759 I know, people who listen to Maria's MutS and Stuff 12 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:45.159 and they pay attention. You're a writer and you're an editor, 13 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.159 and you know you're right about the climate and pats 14 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:53.000 and social justice and health and Jurassic Girl. I really 15 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:56.039 enjoyed this book. It's and I know it's it's aimed 16 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:59.840 at you know, like middle school. Now I won't say children, 17 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.520 but like you know, preteen age? Is that correct? 18 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:08.079 It is? But it's for anybody. I just believe that 19 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:10.560 pick up a book and read it. It could be 20 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.760 I just did a story for Next Avenue on I 21 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:20.159 gave my mom she has early dementia. Okay, and she 22 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:21.799 just turned ninety three, thank you. 23 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:22.480 Oh God, bless her. 24 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:23.840 Wow that's nice. 25 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.359 Yeah yeah, yep. And she for her birthday I got 26 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:32.879 her a book that it's a picture book and she 27 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:34.560 she used to be a reading teacher and she was 28 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:38.439 a fifth grade teacher. Wow, and kids and adults. You know, 29 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.159 we think picture books kids, No, not just for kids. 30 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.519 She was able to read this, and she read. After 31 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:48.760 she read it, she told me exactly what happened in 32 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.079 the book. It was fascinating, wonderful. So I did a 33 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:56.239 story on this, and it's doctors have said that it's 34 00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:00.280 easier to read a book with pictures or newspaper or 35 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.719 something with ads or photographs on the page because it 36 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:06.560 breaks up the words when you're open up a book. Yeah, 37 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:09.479 and there's like all these words and no art. It's 38 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.000 hard for some brains to comprehend. 39 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:13.719 But wow. 40 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:17.439 So you know we're really big on just I mean, 41 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:19.919 I grew up in a house where it was books, books. 42 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:23.120 Yeah. Yeah, no, it's great. And of course you grew 43 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:26.840 up to be a writer, which is wonderful. So let's 44 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:30.560 talk about Jurassic Girl. What made you decide to write 45 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:33.840 this book. I mean, I'll just for the person who 46 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:37.120 hasn't picked up the book yet. It's basically about a 47 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:40.639 twelve year old girl, Mary Anning, and she it's based 48 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.000 on a true story. She was a fossil hunter, but 49 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.400 back in the early eighteen hundreds, which I found to 50 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:51.400 be so fascinating because you know why, she's a girl. 51 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:54.000 And so let's talk about, like, what made you decide 52 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:55.080 to write this book. 53 00:02:56.360 --> 00:03:00.199 Well, I write a lot about people that do incredible things, 54 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.800 and I love talking to people. That's the best part 55 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.599 of my job is the research. I love researching stories 56 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.039 and I love talking to people and finding out, well, 57 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:14.439 why do you do this? Why are you helping animals 58 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:19.360 or people like why? And a few readers told me 59 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.400 about Mary Anning. I did not know who she was, 60 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:28.520 and her story really hit home because I also belong 61 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:35.039 to the Facebook group group for science writers, and unfortunately, 62 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:39.960 women in the scientific community don't always get credit for of. 63 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:44.159 Course, don't get me started on that, but I yes, 64 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:46.520 I understand, uh huh, yes. 65 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.280 And yesterday I actually I gave a talk to a 66 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:54.080 bunch of fourth graders in my community and the kids 67 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:56.240 were so bright and so wonderful and a lot of 68 00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:58.800 girls were telling me they want to be palaeontologists. 69 00:03:59.039 --> 00:03:59.280 Love it. 70 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:01.759 Few girls came up to me and they were like 71 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:03.199 girl power and I'm. 72 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:07.039 Like, okay, yes, I'll take that exactly, yes, yes. 73 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.840 And the fact that you know back in the early 74 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.479 eighteen hundreds, well when Mary found this, she was twelve 75 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.720 years old. She found an Atheosaurus, which was she found 76 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:19.600 it in two parts where she found the head and 77 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.560 then the body. And this is over seventeen feet long. 78 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.199 But if you look at the Jurassic Coast where she 79 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:29.680 grew up, and this was all underwater. When the asteroid 80 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:34.079 hit Earth sixty five million years ago, everything was underwater. 81 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:38.879 The dinosaurs died out, but some did survive, and especially 82 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.560 if they swam and they lived underwater. And the Asiosaurus 83 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:49.079 is a reptilian. It is reptilian. The whole idea that 84 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:53.319 she discovered this and the men which were all the 85 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:59.399 scientific community there, the geology of the London Geology Geological Society, 86 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:05.240 said no, she didn't get credit for this. Actually, the 87 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:08.920 man she sold the fossil to was written up in 88 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:14.439 the scientific journal for discovering this, and she was like, nope, 89 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:18.079 I am going to pribe that I did this and 90 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:21.879 how she did that, and she had a great dad. 91 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:27.040 Her dad loved taking her out to fossil hunt, and 92 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:29.879 from my research, I really got the feeling her dad 93 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:33.480 was a cabinet maker, and I don't think he enjoyed 94 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:36.600 his work as much as if he could. He would 95 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:39.319 be out on the beach every day, fossil hunting rain 96 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.279 or shine. And he took Mary as soon as she 97 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:48.800 started walking with him, and Mary's mother was protective. I 98 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:51.800 believe there were like ten or eleven siblings, but none 99 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.120 of most only one other survived. Back then, you know, 100 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:57.759 we didn't have vaccines. I don't know we could go into. 101 00:05:57.519 --> 00:05:59.639 That, but we didn't, right of course, it was the 102 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.600 early eighteen hundreds. It's yeah, exactly because I was actually 103 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:04.279 when I was reading it, and I as I read 104 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.600 the book, of course and loved it, and I was like, wow, 105 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:08.639 she came from a huge family. And then I realized, like, 106 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:11.600 oh no, back then, you know, people had a lot 107 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.000 of kids, but really not that many survived. You know, 108 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:16.759 you kind of get into the brain of what we 109 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:18.360 have today, and it's very different. 110 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:22.399 M And also back then, being on the seaside, was 111 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:24.800 it's not like this Calm Beach. Look, I grew up 112 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:28.920 in New York, and we're not terribly wonderful in the 113 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:31.160 city compared to like if you go to the Caribbean 114 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:36.720 or something. Of course, all right, and it just she 115 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.199 had to contend with falling rocks from the cliffs, from 116 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:43.480 tides that can you know, the waves can just pull 117 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:45.879 her in and that did happen a few times. And 118 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.279 then think about what she wore back then, women of 119 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:54.040 course didn't wear pants, right, they had boots, but they 120 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:58.040 had she had a long dress. And climbing the cliff. 121 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:01.839 Yes, I can't imagine, right, No. 122 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:05.199 No, Like everything she did was just amazing to me, 123 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:07.160 and I really grew to adore her. 124 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.399 I meant, really. 125 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.360 Admire her greatly. And her mom, as I said, was 126 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:17.079 over overprotective. Her dad would have given her Mary his tools, 127 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:21.079 like the sharp knives and such to find, like if 128 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.480 she found a fossil, often it was buried, it was 129 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.279 covered in stone and she would have to chip away 130 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.879 at that. He would have given it those tools to 131 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:33.160 her before she was five, if her mind would have 132 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:37.839 allowed it. Sure, yeah, yeah, understand that too, Yeah, no, 133 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:38.319 for sure. 134 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:40.560 I mean it's almost I feel like if if she 135 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.079 were in our time when you when we were growing up, 136 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:48.519 she would be considered a tomboy, remember that that phrase, right, 137 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.519 Because she also had an older brother, So I feel 138 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:54.560 like between her dad and her older brother, you know, 139 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:58.600 she was also very brave and she wasn't you know, 140 00:07:58.639 --> 00:07:59.920 and I mean, I hate to say, but she wasn't 141 00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:03.079 like a dainty girl because she was just very interested 142 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:05.360 in doing stuff just for the sake, you know, I 143 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.600 want to discover this stuff and I want to go digging. 144 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.800 So she definitely was almost like a Rosie the Riveter 145 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.160 before Rosie was ever born. 146 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:16.079 You know. Well, I like the fact that it didn't 147 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:20.240 bother her that she had dirt in her fingernails of course, 148 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.279 collected dirt in her boots and such. You know, when 149 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:25.680 I was a kid, I was very lucky. I grew 150 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:27.639 up in the Bronx. My mom had enrolled me in 151 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:31.879 zoology classes at the Bronx Chological Society. Fun yeah, yeah, 152 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.519 yeah no, because when I was very little, I either 153 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.200 wanted to be a writer or a veterinarian. Those two nice. Yeah, 154 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:43.279 yeah yeah. So I took zoology classes at the zoo 155 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.879 and after each session, the zoologists would come out with 156 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:49.519 an animal, and we got to handle them, we got 157 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.000 to go. I mean it was just small, yeah, but 158 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.080 I mean I didn't care. How if I came home 159 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.960 and there was dirt under my fingernails, it was fine, exactly. 160 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:01.159 Yeah, and that's what Mary was like. 161 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.799 Yeah, yeah, I could kind of relate to that. And 162 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:07.960 I mean it was hard. She didn't have a lot 163 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.960 of friends because girls didn't. 164 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.879 Do that, right, right, she was very different. 165 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:15.840 Yeah, right. And then when she found what she discovered, 166 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:18.960 no one had ever seen this before. This was at 167 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:23.000 a time when extinction was just starting to become an idea. 168 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.320 And I mean, just imagine you discover something that no 169 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:30.759 one's ever seen before. How do you describe it? What 170 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:34.639 is it? And the whole idea of you know, a 171 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:38.039 lot of people thought crocodile. It had all these teeth, 172 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:42.600 but it wasn't a crocodile, and they figured it out 173 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:43.759 it was an etheosaurus. 174 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:47.399 But which is why that's like a fish lizard? Is 175 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:47.960 that correct? 176 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:48.200 Yes? 177 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:50.559 Yeah, fish lizard? Right for those who are like, wait, 178 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:52.279 what is that? Because I didn't know what it was either. 179 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.200 I mean obviously I learned reading the book, but and 180 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:57.399 then I looked up that of course, I mean they're 181 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:01.919 now extinct and they probably have been for a long time, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, but. 182 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.559 I mean extinction didn't happen. I mean, well it did, 183 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:08.399 but in people's minds, and a lot of it came 184 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.480 from religion, Like God wouldn't have created something that died 185 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:16.960 out right, right, But she believed and she even she 186 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:19.440 went to Sunday School and her priests used to be 187 00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:23.759 was a fossil hunter. Oh, they believe, they believe that 188 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:29.279 science and religion could coexist, which is a nice thought. 189 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.120 It's a nice thought. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. 190 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:37.000 You know it can't exist, yes, yes, so yeah, it's 191 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:40.759 a fascinating story. I mean, how long did it take 192 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:43.120 you to do all this research? And how was it 193 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.480 finding this research? Just because it was something that you know, 194 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:51.799 we didn't learn about her in school and you know 195 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:52.960 it was so long ago. 196 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:58.159 That was an issue for me. When I do a story, 197 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.039 it's about somebody who's done some thing to day or 198 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:06.159 lifetime that is alive and I can actually call that person, 199 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:08.399 I can meet with that person. I can find out 200 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:11.000 how did you do this? I could ask questions and 201 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:14.799 get responses this. You know, I don't have a time machine. 202 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:20.440 I couldn't go back and interview Mary. So I actually 203 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:24.519 found a book. It's called The Fossil Hunter by Shelley Emling. 204 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:28.240 It's a biography and she did research and I found 205 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.720 out she contacted the lime Regis Museum, which is where 206 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.960 Mary grew up, in the town of lime Regis, and 207 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:44.960 last year they Lime Regius Museum developed a Mary Anning Wing. Yeah. 208 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:48.879 So there are researchers there and I sent them a 209 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:52.440 lot of questions. I was like, can you answer this 210 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:55.679 and this and this? And they was very patient and 211 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:01.639 I got all the information I needed. And I also 212 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.600 looked online. There is some stuff, some stories about her, 213 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:07.480 but it's pretty brief, and a lot of them are 214 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:12.279 pretty repetitious about this young twelve year old that found something. 215 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.879 But to get to learn about her background, her family, 216 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.879 what Lime Regis was like. And then I got really 217 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.200 lucky because I couldn't and I was trying to picture 218 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.200 what the cliffs and the seaside look like. I'm thinking, again, 219 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:29.399 New York are okay, the Caribbean, but it's still flat 220 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:32.559 and such. This is not at all like this. It's huge. 221 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:36.519 It's really really huge. And a cousin of mine that 222 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.200 I'm close to put me in touch with another cousin 223 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:42.480 who lives in London, and she went there it's about 224 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.759 a three hour drive, and took pictures and sent me 225 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:47.159 a picture of the Oh perfect. 226 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:50.639 Yeah, yeah, and I'm sure. 227 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.559 Yes, there's a picture. In the picture, there's someone there 228 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:58.600 wearing a bright blue sweater forst just to show the scale. 229 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:00.679 But he's like a dot. 230 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:01.559 Wow. 231 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:06.799 Yeah, it's so. I mean, the cliffs are high, huh, 232 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:10.000 the beach is just it's it is really finding that 233 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:14.480 needle in a haystack and learning about the difference between 234 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.559 a fossil and a real rock, just the whole idea. 235 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:23.159 And I had to do a lot of research. I 236 00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:25.960 did a lot of you know, when I first put 237 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.879 this together, I thought, I'm just going to focus on 238 00:13:29.320 --> 00:13:31.480 age twelve. And in the back of the book, I 239 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.840 have her other accomplishments. 240 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:34.799 Which I loved. I loved the like, oh, well, what 241 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.600 happened to her? You know, it's a real story. What 242 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.960 happened Michelle? And you told us well? 243 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.600 And I opened with the book. I mean, being a journalist, 244 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:47.080 if I'm interviewing anybody, I want to check and double check, 245 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.120 of course, and make sure everything's right. I couldn't do 246 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.240 that in this so my intro, which is like a page, 247 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:56.679 I explained that I made up all the dialogue. Beach. 248 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:58.759 I figured that, yeah, of course, because how would you know. 249 00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:00.759 I mean, it's not like they even had, you know, 250 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:04.240 a cassette deck back then. Yeah, there will be no 251 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:07.399 record of that. But you know what, the dialogue was believable, 252 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:10.600 especially you know, between her and her brother and and 253 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.559 her mom being protective and her dad being like, oh 254 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.559 you know, this is my girl, come, and you know 255 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:16.919 it was it was believable. 256 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.000 And her brother was also important. 257 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:23.440 Yeah, very important to that story. Yeah, yeah, no. 258 00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:26.559 And if you read any of Dickens and about how 259 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:30.600 child labor law, well no, no child labor laws, right, 260 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:34.399 children were treated back in the day. And Joseph, her brother, 261 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:40.559 was very lucky that he worked. He was upholstery like 262 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:43.720 an apprentice, right, apprentice, right exactly, thank you. 263 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:44.960 Sure he. 264 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.600 Was lucky to work there, and not like in a 265 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:55.320 big city like in London, because in London, kids ten 266 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:59.519 years old stood at the station, at their stations, making 267 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.519 whatever it was they were making in the factories for 268 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:06.000 twelve hours a day. That was not unusual. He had 269 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:08.639 gruel and you know, they had like a few minutes 270 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:10.960 to eat that and then right and if they made 271 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.639 a mistake, they can get whipped or you know, shard. 272 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.639 And you know, it was pretty awful, all right. It 273 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.519 sounded like Joseph's boss was Cone was. 274 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.679 A decent man. Yes, absolutely, it did sound like that 275 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.720 he was. He was like, Joseph was lucky to get 276 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.240 that job, but he knew how lucky he was. Yeah, 277 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:32.120 I agree, that's I mean, that's what I got out 278 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:32.759 of it as well. 279 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.519 Good. Yeah, and then yeah, no, and his and Mary, 280 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.600 like Joseph of course contributed to the household. And Mary also, 281 00:15:42.039 --> 00:15:45.120 I mean the tourists from London and other cities would 282 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.240 come and she'd sell the fossils that she found. Them 283 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.840 were ammonites, which were small and I had since learned 284 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:54.120 that they range in size from as small as a 285 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:56.600 belly button to like a bicycle tire. 286 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:01.399 Oh really, okay, wow, I would never think that, but okay, yeah, but. 287 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:08.639 It's telepods that you know, like squid and octopus remains 288 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:12.600 so embedded into these stones, into the you know, the 289 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:17.279 right it's and I mean there's just so much and 290 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.559 doing the research and talking about this to kids, and 291 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.480 maybe I said, yesterday, I was at a school, and 292 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.799 I mean, there's a new stegosaurus right now at the museum, 293 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:30.279 American Museum in Natural. 294 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:30.960 History, So I saw that. 295 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:36.759 Yeah, yeah, And I was looking at YouTube and there 296 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:39.200 was a paleontologist who was interviewed and they were talking 297 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:42.159 about how a lot of the fossils the dinosaurs that 298 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:47.759 we see are not complete because you know, when the 299 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.440 asteroid hit and bones were scattered, it wasn't like it 300 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.679 was just buried in one spot. So a lot of 301 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:59.120 the dinosaurs skeletons that we see are you know, a 302 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:04.920 percentage of dinosaur bones and then a percentage of copied materials. 303 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:06.279 Right look like bones. 304 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:09.640 So I mean I find that also fascinating. 305 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:10.920 It is, and it is. 306 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.359 Yeah, And just talking to palaeontologists, I mean I'm going 307 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.240 a little off, you know, on tangent here. But this 308 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:24.400 paleontologist I interviewed for a story about taking your kids 309 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.440 on a on a fossil dig. She was saying when 310 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:31.119 she was little, like all kids go through this this 311 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:35.839 dinosaur phase they do yeah, yeah, yeah, And I mean 312 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:40.839 and like they know every name and yeah, and then 313 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.079 they forget Yeah. But she was telling me. You know, 314 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.240 she went through that phase and then you know it's like, Okay, 315 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:48.799 what am I going to do when I grow up? 316 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.839 And she's studying other things, and there was an event 317 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:53.920 that she went to with dinosaurs and she said, I'm 318 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:55.960 going to be a paleontologist. And she said to me, 319 00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:00.319 my worst experience, my worst day on the job was 320 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:05.559 I'm out in Montana in this big field and there 321 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.599 starts to hail. It's cold, right, she covers herself with 322 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:15.559 a tarp and she finds these enormous dinosaur bones and 323 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.480 she's like, oh, this is her words. Oh dang, how 324 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:22.319 in the world am I going to carry this? Right? 325 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.559 That's her worst day worst right? 326 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.160 Yeah, she marked the area and they came back with help. 327 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.200 And tools, and now it's fascinating. 328 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:33.960 Frans supported, Yeah, it is. It is. 329 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.359 It's really fascinating, you know, and probably I mean obviously 330 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:40.920 to them, they just like Mary in the book, they 331 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.079 look at something and they know, well, it's a fossil, 332 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.480 that's a dinosaur bone, which to us, you know what, 333 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.279 we don't know what that is, just could be a rock, 334 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:53.559 you know, So it's really uh, you know, we appreciate them, 335 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.680 and it's just I just found the book so fascinating, 336 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.119 and it was an easy read and an easy meaning 337 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:01.599 that you like the characters and you want to see 338 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:06.119 what happens. Was Elizabeth or a true a real person 339 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.480 of Mary's friend? She was oh interesting because that was 340 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:12.640 kind of cool too that she had another like another 341 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.839 girl who was a little bit older, but another girl 342 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:18.759 who was also interested. 343 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:22.359 And I think that's why they connected. It's like all 344 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:24.400 these other girls are like, well, who are you going 345 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:25.039 to marry? 346 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:26.279 And we're right? 347 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.240 They were right and right. So here was this person 348 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:33.599 she meets on the beach who's fossil hunting and like, 349 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:36.359 what are you doing here? Because some days Mary had 350 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.079 the beach to herself. I mean occasionally there were people 351 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:44.079 fishing for dinner, you know, but they weren't fossil hunting. 352 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:48.519 And here's this other woman fossil hunting, and so they 353 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:53.960 became friends. Elizabeth had come from a wealth, wealthy family. 354 00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.160 Her parents had passed, but her brother, he was a lawyer, 355 00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:59.599 and he knew a lot of people in the London 356 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.759 geelo society, so she knew a lot of people there too, 357 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.039 and she and her two sisters were living They were 358 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:08.079 living on the top of the Hill of the Cliffs 359 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.160 in a very nice area and they had library and 360 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:16.480 she she was pretty, as I said, well to do yeah, 361 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.920 but she and Mary had the fossils. 362 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.799 Right in common. Yeah, and they were like really close friends. 363 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:23.799 And so I don't know why it's going to sound crazy, 364 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.160 but I'm so happy to know that Elizabeth is real 365 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.079 because there was something also, you know, it shows you again, 366 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.240 It's like that was a slice of true friends. Don't 367 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:37.240 care if one is rich one is poor, you know 368 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.119 what the other person looks like, or does you know? 369 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.119 Friendship is friendship? And I don't. I don't even know 370 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.599 if you realize that you showed a slice of what 371 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.240 true friendship is because it's based on nothing just having 372 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.119 stuff in common. 373 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.519 Mm hmmmm. And there was an age difference, there was 374 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:57.599 a class difference. 375 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.200 Elizabeth, like you said, came from a well to do family, 376 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.599 but you know, Mary took her over to her house 377 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.960 for dinner and didn't care, and Elizabeth didn't care. So 378 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.079 there was also that whole thing too, which I was like, yay, 379 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.440 we need a book like this right now, you know. 380 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.640 So yeah, I really enjoyed it. I really did well. 381 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.720 Thank you, thank you. I'm so thrilled. I'm really real. 382 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.680 Yeah, no, it was great. So well, the question I 383 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.160 always have and I know that you know, this is 384 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.119 a recent project and it took a lot for you 385 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.480 to do this book, especially, like you said, it's not 386 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.440 like you could call a relative or someone to speak 387 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:38.359 for Mary. Besides, I know you you're always writing articles 388 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:40.680 and interviewing people. Do you have another book that you 389 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.200 might be thinking about or that you were toying with? 390 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:44.359 You do? 391 00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:48.119 Okay? Can you talk? Can you hint about it? 392 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:53.039 I can't. Yeah, I can. Actually, before I studied, you know, 393 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.000 and immersed myself and Mary Annie there, I wanted to 394 00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.839 do a story about Study and I'm guessing you know 395 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:01.319 Study is dog. 396 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:04.279 Yes, yes, he. 397 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:10.759 Was the First World War One service, Yes, and yeah. 398 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.839 And before I did all this Mary Anning research, Mary 399 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.160 Anning was easier in the sense that I had people 400 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.279 to talk to as far as well. It was mainly 401 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:26.599