1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,879 Speaker 1: Hi, Roberts Arrow, how are you doing today? 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 2: Good? 3 00:00:02,799 --> 00:00:05,719 Speaker 1: How are you fantastic? Let's talk about them aducent protocol. 4 00:00:05,799 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: Dude, I would love that. 5 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,439 Speaker 1: You have got to be one of the most oh 6 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,919 my god, precise writers in the way of describing things 7 00:00:14,119 --> 00:00:17,120 in the most simple, honest way that this is for everybody. 8 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,480 It's not just a guide book. I mean, everybody can 9 00:00:19,519 --> 00:00:21,359 pick this book up and take something with it. 10 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Thank you. 11 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: What goes into that? What is your daily routine to 12 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,120 where you know? I'm because I mean you've got to 13 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,199 have that inner voice and you're going that's a little 14 00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:31,000 bit too technical. 15 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I don't know. That's a great question. 16 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:39,399 Speaker 3: I think ultimately I kind of came out of the 17 00:00:39,399 --> 00:00:42,960 minimalism school of writing, you know, like Amy Oull and 18 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:46,520 Tom Spenbauer and Shuck Polinox so and it's all about 19 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,240 like really stripped down, really specific detail. 20 00:00:50,439 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 2: And yeah, I think that's maybe the best I got there. 21 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:56,479 Speaker 1: This is the type of writing that really does create 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,000 conversation in the way of saying because everybody goes, what 23 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:01,119 are you reading today, and you go, you got to 24 00:01:01,159 --> 00:01:02,960 read this one. So it's almost like the way we 25 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,239 react when it comes to binge watching TV shows. 26 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I mean, I mean, I just want 27 00:01:09,599 --> 00:01:13,519 to write books that are fun and appealing and entertaining, 28 00:01:13,519 --> 00:01:16,799 but also have something a little bit more that you 29 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:18,359 can dig your teeth into, you know. 30 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:21,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I mean, that's so funny you say that 31 00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:23,640 the entertaining because you do have humor in this. I mean, 32 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,400 and it's like, I mean, you know, comedians spend a 33 00:01:25,439 --> 00:01:28,599 lifetime crafting their jokes. How how do you put? Does it? 34 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:28,719 Speaker 3: Is? 35 00:01:28,719 --> 00:01:29,079 Speaker 2: It? Is it? 36 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: Do you rely on stream thinking to put you know, 37 00:01:31,079 --> 00:01:32,400 that that little bit of humor in there? 38 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:34,239 Speaker 2: Oh? 39 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,599 Speaker 3: I think that's uh, it's a very natural, uh progression 40 00:01:38,599 --> 00:01:41,159 of my voice, you know, because because I could be 41 00:01:41,159 --> 00:01:43,879 a bit of a wise guy. But I think it's 42 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,599 it's really you know, humor is such an important tool 43 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,519 for writers because the thing is is if you can 44 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,640 make a reader laugh, you can make them trust you, 45 00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:51,599 and if. 46 00:01:51,519 --> 00:01:53,359 Speaker 2: They trust you, you can take them anywhere. Yeah. 47 00:01:53,799 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: So did you know while writing Assassins Anonymous that you 48 00:01:56,719 --> 00:01:59,439 were going to be leading us to the MEDUSA Protocol? 49 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,879 Speaker 3: I mean, look, every book I write, I just assume 50 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:04,640 it's the last thing I'm ever going to write. You know, 51 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:06,640 I always have that feeling of like, oh, I've got 52 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,360 no words left, I'm done. 53 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:12,159 Speaker 2: You know, this is garbage until someone tells me otherwise. 54 00:02:13,199 --> 00:02:14,759 I mean, right from the. 55 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 3: Jump, I kind of knew that this had series potential 56 00:02:18,479 --> 00:02:20,840 because you've got all these assassins who. 57 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,439 Speaker 2: Are in a recovery program, who are. 58 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 3: All, you know, quirky, different, interesting characters who have their 59 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,680 own past and their own traumas and their own specialties. 60 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,240 So yeah, I just I really wanted to revisit it, 61 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,240 and I was really happy that my publisher was open 62 00:02:35,319 --> 00:02:36,240 to letting me do that. 63 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,879 Speaker 1: Well aster it, you paint her to be pretty darn strong. 64 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,240 She's staying faithful, she doesn't want to kill anybody, but 65 00:02:41,599 --> 00:02:43,319 yet she wants to get the hell out of that prison. 66 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:45,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's tough. 67 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 3: And that's one of the fun things about writing these 68 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,000 books is that you've got these characters that are just 69 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,599 such a fishing killers that they can end something in 70 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:59,000 an instance, but they have this newfound sense of self 71 00:02:59,039 --> 00:03:01,639 worth and of not wanting to go down that pathway. 72 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,199 So it creates all these challenges of like, how do 73 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,400 I get these people out of these situations without killing somebody? 74 00:03:08,199 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: Now? 75 00:03:08,439 --> 00:03:11,879 Speaker 1: In the chapter called Mark, you talk about that box 76 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,560 of fried rice. That is my go to food, that's 77 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:15,360 my comfort food. 78 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 3: Is it? 79 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: How special fried rice? What are we talking about when 80 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:19,439 it comes to your fried rice? 81 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:21,159 Speaker 2: Oh? How special? 82 00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: Yeah? 83 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? And that's the thing. 84 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of places don't advertise the 85 00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:28,400 house special. 86 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,199 Speaker 2: You have to ask for it. 87 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: That's exactly what It's always the best. Yeah. See that 88 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,159 that's me. Is that connection to that reader? Because I 89 00:03:35,159 --> 00:03:37,719 mean to identify with just fried rice and it's just 90 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,120 mentioned in it. It's like, yes, this guy, he's one 91 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:42,120 of us. Yeah. 92 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: And that's the thing too. 93 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: It's like, you got these characters who are you know, 94 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:48,639 Mark is supposed to be the deadliest killer in the world, 95 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,840 which we can't identify with that, you know, But if 96 00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:55,680 he's like, if he likes snacks, if he likes food, 97 00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:58,400 if he likes watching movies, those are things we can 98 00:03:58,479 --> 00:03:59,120 identify with. 99 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,639 Speaker 1: So what we're you doing in your everyday world to 100 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,759 to do the olives on a pizza as a signal 101 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,560 to Mark that it's like, hey, hey, hey, something's not 102 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:08,120 right here. 103 00:04:09,159 --> 00:04:11,919 Speaker 3: Oh that's just because olives are like the worst topping 104 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,240 to go on a pizza. Just just olives are terrible. 105 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,519 I don't understand why people eat them. But it was 106 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,720 one of those things that you know, it was funny too. 107 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, in the. 108 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 3: Book, Astra is trying to get a coded message to 109 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,040 the team to let them know that she's alive. And 110 00:04:26,399 --> 00:04:29,040 luckily I was able to go back and make a 111 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,240 reference about that in the first book because we were 112 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,120 still in edits. 113 00:04:32,319 --> 00:04:34,639 Speaker 2: So I look a lot smarter than I really am. 114 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: Okay, that explains the continuity then, because I was going 115 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,279 to ask you, how did you connect these two books together? 116 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,560 So well, because you know how readers are. We'll go 117 00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:43,959 into a book, we're into a story, a series, and 118 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,680 we'll start picking things apart. 119 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and look like someone's going to call me 120 00:04:48,399 --> 00:04:50,319 on something and say, oh, you did this, but it's 121 00:04:50,319 --> 00:04:52,000 supposed to be like that, and that's just kind of 122 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:52,360 the name. 123 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,439 Speaker 2: Of the game. But yeah, no, I. 124 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,079 Speaker 3: Again, this is one of those happy situations where I 125 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,160 feel like it's coming together. It feels so second nature 126 00:05:02,879 --> 00:05:04,519 that I'm just like, yeah, you know, I got this. 127 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: What is your writing discipline are you? Are you writing 128 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,199 in the morning, because I have to at seven o'clock 129 00:05:09,199 --> 00:05:10,759 in the morning. I've got to be behind a pan 130 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:12,959 that see. 131 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,639 Speaker 3: That's really cool. I can't do that for me. I 132 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,759 tend to work in big binges. And it's also it's 133 00:05:18,759 --> 00:05:21,040 dependent on so many things. It's like, you know, if 134 00:05:21,079 --> 00:05:23,519 my daughter doesn't have school, I'm not going to write, 135 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,319 Like we're gonna go David Busters and play. 136 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: Video games, you know. 137 00:05:26,959 --> 00:05:31,079 Speaker 3: So it's always the way I like to describe it 138 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,360 is that the work gets done or it doesn't, you know. 139 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: And that's the only thing to me. 140 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: The matters how do you return to a normal life, 141 00:05:37,319 --> 00:05:39,399 because I know that when I disappear with writing, I'm 142 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:41,279 in that zone and it takes me a couple of 143 00:05:41,319 --> 00:05:43,480 seconds to really connect with my real world. 144 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: I think. Again, it's kind of a function of like, 145 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:47,040 this is. 146 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,319 Speaker 3: A lesson I learned when I when I had a kid, 147 00:05:50,639 --> 00:05:53,160 you know, because I used to For me, the writing 148 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:56,240 process used to be really precious. It had to be protected, 149 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:59,240 it had to be you know, there were rituals, and 150 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,560 then you have a kid and you're. 151 00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 2: Like nope, nope, all of that goes out the window. 152 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: It's like, oh, she's napping, I have one hour to write. 153 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:06,920 I need to write in that hour. 154 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yeah, well that means I mean, because when 155 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,199 I do things like that, I call that stream thinking. 156 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,720 I don't have time to mess around with captain perfectionists. 157 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,480 I've got to be able to invest in stream thinking. 158 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,879 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and look like all my first drafts are 159 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,959 just the worst piles. 160 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,519 Speaker 2: Of hot barbage you've ever seen in your life. 161 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,519 Speaker 3: But that's the point of a first draft is you 162 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,720 got to get it on the page. It's like it's 163 00:06:28,759 --> 00:06:30,920 like you're a sculptor and you're working in clay, right 164 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:32,959 you have to have a big mount to clay on 165 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,399 the table before you can shape it into something. It's 166 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,920 just making that clay and getting it all loaded up there. 167 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 2: That's the hard part. 168 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: I had an editor tell me one time that it 169 00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:43,079 was like, you know, get just get it out. It's 170 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,560 my job to do the editing, not your job. 171 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:47,079 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. 172 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,759 Speaker 1: Wow Wow. So then when here's what I want to 173 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:52,759 talk about the book cover, is that a monarch butterfly 174 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:55,959 on the knife? I believe it is, yeah, because I 175 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,000 mean that right away. I mean, it's it's almost like 176 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,920 what Peter Max told me one time, you put things 177 00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:03,360 inside your paintings that take your eye away from what 178 00:07:03,399 --> 00:07:05,759 you think that thing is about, and so I'm attracted 179 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,240 to the butterfly. But then all of a sudden, the 180 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,360 rest of the of the book cover comes into play. 181 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,480 So there are a lot of thought has gone into 182 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:12,120 this book cover. 183 00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, the book covers are designed by a guy named 184 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,800 Tal Gretzky, and he's one of the archives over at 185 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,079 Hanging Random House, and he is. 186 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:22,519 Speaker 2: Just so good. I mean, this is such a cool 187 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,839 visual style for the series and the butterfly. 188 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 3: I was a little surprised by because and it was 189 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,800 because he wanted something with a little bit of a 190 00:07:31,879 --> 00:07:34,600 feminine element since this book is now focusing a little 191 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,360 bit more on Asterid, and I thought it was just 192 00:07:37,399 --> 00:07:39,079 a smart and clever way to do that. 193 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: So it's a man, I feel lucky. 194 00:07:42,199 --> 00:07:45,639 Speaker 3: I've never gotten a bad cover, but these are truly 195 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,360 like some beautiful special covers that he's made. 196 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:51,079 Speaker 1: And on the inside of this cover, first of all, 197 00:07:51,079 --> 00:07:54,160 congratulations on your success as a writer. And because most 198 00:07:54,199 --> 00:07:56,079 of the time you find out what the author has 199 00:07:56,079 --> 00:07:57,759 written in the back of the book, I'm glad that 200 00:07:57,839 --> 00:07:59,439 you're you're promoting yourself in the front of the book 201 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,399 saying hey, by the way, thanks for buying this book. 202 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:02,920 But there's other ones you can add to your collection. 203 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: Now, I'm not mad about that. It's wild to look 204 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:08,639 at that and be like, man like that. I've been 205 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:09,639 doing this for a minute. 206 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,439 Speaker 1: All right, Who is Todd? I want to know who 207 00:08:12,439 --> 00:08:15,120 Todd is? Because you obviously, like you said, you were 208 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,600 watching you know, watching him, you learned a lot, so 209 00:08:17,959 --> 00:08:19,120 you got to tell me who Todd is? 210 00:08:19,879 --> 00:08:22,399 Speaker 2: Sure? So, so Todd is the person I dedicated the 211 00:08:22,399 --> 00:08:24,720 book to. He is Todd Robinson. 212 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,399 Speaker 3: He is the author of The Hard Bounce and the 213 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:30,439 editor of, or the former. 214 00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:31,199 Speaker 2: Editor of thug Lit. 215 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:34,039 Speaker 3: Thug Lit isn't active anymore, but it was a short 216 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:35,919 story magazine for crime fiction. 217 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,759 Speaker 2: And he is. He's one of my best friends. 218 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:44,279 Speaker 3: But you know, thug Lit was so important to the 219 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:49,639 crime fiction community, especially now because there's really not a 220 00:08:49,639 --> 00:08:53,279 lot of options anymore if you're writing short stories. But 221 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,799 Todd initially published me. He published Sean Cosby, s A. Cosby, 222 00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:01,440 He published Jordan Harper. You know, all these authors who 223 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,559 are just kind of a big deal now. You know, 224 00:09:04,799 --> 00:09:08,440 he saw their potential when they were first getting started, 225 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,919 and he is such a good friend and an incredible editor. 226 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: Well, what's funny is that s. A. 227 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,759 Speaker 3: Cosby has a book this album too, called King of Ashes, 228 00:09:21,399 --> 00:09:25,120 and he also dedicated the book to Todd had. 229 00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:26,799 Speaker 2: Two books dedicated to him this month. 230 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:30,159 Speaker 1: See, I always want to talk about the ones that 231 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:32,840 get the dedication because as readers, they just they just 232 00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:34,519 fly over and it's like, no, I want to know 233 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:36,600 the story. I want to know because to me, that 234 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,000 helps me understand the author who is sharing the story. 235 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, And there's always that part of me 236 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:44,919 that's like I want to write like a whole essay 237 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,120 about how great Todd is. 238 00:09:46,879 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: But there is more with Rob Heart coming up next 239 00:09:51,919 --> 00:09:54,159 did name of the book the Medusa Protocol. We're back 240 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,519 with Rob Hart. We do have something in common. I 241 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,559 love for Tick not Han. I mean, oh my god, 242 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,399 we should be able to hold our suffering and look 243 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,440 deeply into it, hold it tenderly and learn from it. 244 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,399 Tick not Han, That man, through his words has taught 245 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,320 me so much about being a creative person. 246 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,519 Speaker 3: He really is just such a beautiful thinker. And that 247 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,799 was one of the fun things about the book. About 248 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,039 these books in particular is obviously I've got my epigraph quotes, 249 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,000 but I like putting other quotes in two in part 250 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,000 because so much of recovery is quotations, is you know, 251 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:27,840 sayings and. 252 00:10:28,399 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: Stuff like that. 253 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,039 Speaker 1: Do you find yourself traveling to the areas that you 254 00:10:32,039 --> 00:10:33,320 speak of inside your stories? 255 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:35,799 Speaker 2: I try to the best that I can. 256 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,399 Speaker 3: A lot of this book is set in Salth Paulo, 257 00:10:38,759 --> 00:10:41,799 which I, you know, wanted to go to and just 258 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:42,960 didn't have the opportunity. 259 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: I did. 260 00:10:44,399 --> 00:10:46,399 Speaker 3: So part of the first book is set in Singapore, 261 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,120 which I've spent time there and that was a that 262 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:50,200 was a ton of fun. 263 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. So when did it hit you the idea? 264 00:10:53,519 --> 00:10:55,360 I mean, because my last book hit me while walking 265 00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:57,519 through a South Park mall here in Charlotte and you 266 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,600 just go, crap, oh God, this means I'm going to 267 00:10:59,639 --> 00:11:01,080 dedicate the next two years on this. 268 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,919 Speaker 3: Well, for for assassins, it was very much. For the 269 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,759 longest time, I've wanted to write a book about assassins in. 270 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: Like a group therapy program. And then there was just 271 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,559 one day it was a. 272 00:11:14,519 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 3: Friend of mine was talking about being in recovery and 273 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:18,919 it just clicked with me. 274 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, that's it. 275 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: That idea would really work by putting it because the 276 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,600 thing about the recovery process is that it includes an 277 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,879 amn's process, and I'm like, oh, what does an amen's 278 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:32,039 process look like for someone who professionally kill people? 279 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: You know, that's got to be interesting. 280 00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:36,519 Speaker 1: Is there really an assassin's anonymous? 281 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 3: I mean, look, the world is a big and fascinating place, 282 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,919 like maybe, but I kind of feel like if there was, 283 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,279 someone probably would have knocked on my door and been like, hey, 284 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:47,000 you got to knock this. 285 00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 2: On, right. 286 00:11:50,919 --> 00:11:53,279 Speaker 1: I've been with Mark Greene many, many, many times. When 287 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,279 I saw his name on the front cover of your book, 288 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,519 I knew exactly this was my book. 289 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: He's a good dude, appreciate in taking the time. 290 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: Oh oh my god. I mean, I mean creative circles 291 00:12:04,759 --> 00:12:06,600 when it comes to writers. I mean it's amazing to 292 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:09,039 sit down with other authors and just share and swapshop 293 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,799 basically just just share your story. 294 00:12:11,639 --> 00:12:14,279 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, I mean that's that's the best part about 295 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,159 going to like conventions and stuff. That's like they may 296 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,200 be expensive, and you know, they may be you know, 297 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,440 sometimes a little hard on the body in terms of 298 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,559 you know, staying up late and all the traveling. 299 00:12:25,759 --> 00:12:27,159 Speaker 2: But sometimes you just need that. 300 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,879 Speaker 3: You need to refill the creative well, you know, you 301 00:12:29,879 --> 00:12:32,000 need to connect with other writers, and remember why it 302 00:12:32,039 --> 00:12:32,679 is we're doing this? 303 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: How did you learn such pacing with your words? Because 304 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,320 we live in this age where there are so many 305 00:12:37,399 --> 00:12:39,919 run on sentences and crazy thoughts. Like my wife is 306 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,840 reading a book right now. She goes, she says, I'm 307 00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:43,639 glued to it because I don't understand it. 308 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:49,399 Speaker 2: Really, that's interesting. I kind of like that. 309 00:12:49,919 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 3: No for me again, like I've always been sort of 310 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,120 like a more minimalist writer, but also like, you know, 311 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,960 I remember reading authors like Ken. 312 00:12:57,799 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: Berwin who like or like James l. 313 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 3: Roy is very much like that too, just like really 314 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,000 short static sentences that I think serve to kind of pull. 315 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:08,759 Speaker 2: You through the narrative. You know, they're they're a little 316 00:13:08,759 --> 00:13:10,759 bit blunter, so they feel a little bit faster. 317 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: Are you tapping into a computer while you're doing this 318 00:13:13,639 --> 00:13:15,240 or are you handwriting it first? 319 00:13:15,519 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: Oh god, you know, handwriting sounds so romantic. 320 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: And then the idea of then having to type it 321 00:13:21,639 --> 00:13:24,440 into a computer after having writ and it drives me insane. 322 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: No. No. 323 00:13:26,639 --> 00:13:29,759 Speaker 3: I Also I used to be a reporter, so man, 324 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,559 I type fast. Like people get mad at me because 325 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,039 they're like, how do you work so quickly? 326 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,159 Speaker 2: And I'm like I used. I used to have to 327 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,559 do a page one. 328 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,039 Speaker 3: Story in like ten minutes before the press is rang. 329 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,600 You know, you kind of learned how to move quickly 330 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:45,120 at that point. 331 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm convinced that the reason why my computer keeps 332 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,360 jamming up is because I'm tapping too fast on that 333 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:51,559 thing and it can't keep up with me. 334 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 2: Hey. You know what, though, that's a good problem to 335 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,519 have when you're. 336 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: When you're building characters such as Mark and Astrid, are 337 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,919 you envisioning the actors that are going to play them? 338 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:03,919 Speaker 2: No? 339 00:14:03,919 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 3: No, that that that I feel like if I do that, 340 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,799 then I'm going to become to behold into someone else's uh, 341 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,559 you know, way of. 342 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 2: Speaking or patterns or whatever. 343 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,639 Speaker 3: I kind of like like the the only I'll tell 344 00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:21,080 you this, there's only one character I've ever written that I. 345 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: Had an actor in mind while I was writing them, and. 346 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,279 Speaker 3: That was Kenji, who is Mark's sponsor and Assassin's anonymous. 347 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:28,879 Speaker 2: And for him it. 348 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:32,519 Speaker 3: Would be hero Yuki Sonata, who is a phenomenal Japanese actor. 349 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:37,240 He was in Shogun. You know, if the movie happens, 350 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,720 I'm going to be lobbying very hard that they go 351 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:40,639 to him for that role. 352 00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:42,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I've always wondered what, what does what is 353 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,799 the voice of the of the characters inside your head 354 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:48,399 sound like? And because by the time it gets to us, 355 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,360 then it's and it's the voices in our head that 356 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,879 will bring Asterid and Mark together. And I often wonder 357 00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:55,840 how close we are together and are they compared? 358 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,559 Speaker 2: See that that's an interesting question. I mean, it's impossible 359 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:00,840 to know. 360 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,159 Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'll tell you this, I 361 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,960 can't listen to my audio books, oh, because they make 362 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,200 me deeply uncomfortable because when because then I'm listening to 363 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,000 someone else read the voice that was in my head yep, 364 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,799 and I'm like, this doesn't sound right, this doesn't feel good. 365 00:15:14,919 --> 00:15:16,559 Speaker 2: I do not consent to this. 366 00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:19,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, So on that I agree with you, because I'll 367 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:21,720 go from like pages your pages, and then I'll go 368 00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:24,600 to audible and I'm going, ooh, that's a different emotion 369 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:26,000 because I'm at your pitch, volume, in. 370 00:15:26,039 --> 00:15:28,879 Speaker 2: Tone exactly exactly so. 371 00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:31,039 Speaker 3: But that's also kind of the cool thing about it. 372 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:35,200 It's like what people take from it. It's like, once 373 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:37,279 I'm done with it, it kind of becomes its own thing. 374 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: Wow, all right, So what's next? I mean, because are 375 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,960 we going to get a third book or can you 376 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,840 talk about that yet? 377 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: Oh? 378 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:47,759 Speaker 3: Absolutely. The third book is submitted to my editor. It 379 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,759 is called Three hit Men and a Baby, and. 380 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:51,759 Speaker 2: It is. 381 00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 3: It's a fun one and I'm curious to see what 382 00:15:56,759 --> 00:15:59,320 she thinks. Like I'm in that space. I'm sure you 383 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,440 know this. It's like you finish your book again and. 384 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: You're like, until someone else tells me this is okay, 385 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:04,720 it's not okay. 386 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, that's right. 387 00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:08,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you do go do that hanging out and 388 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:08,720 wait for that. 389 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:10,399 Speaker 1: You go through that fear then before you send it 390 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,879 off to Todd. You know that little feeling in your stomach. 391 00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 2: Oh my god, absolutely, you know. 392 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: I mean I go through that feeling after the book 393 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,759 comes out, like you can show like I'll get like 394 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,320 a pile of great reviews and I'm still like, I 395 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:26,399 don't think this book. 396 00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:26,679 Speaker 2: Is very good. 397 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so you've got the interperfectionists too, then. 398 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:33,759 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which is good. You know, it's not a 399 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:34,120 bad thing. 400 00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 3: It's like, as long as you're not too hard on yourself, 401 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:37,320 as long as you're getting. 402 00:16:37,039 --> 00:16:37,759 Speaker 2: Your work done. 403 00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: But it just means that you want you want to 404 00:16:40,159 --> 00:16:41,960 push yourself, you want better for yourself. 405 00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: Well, how many books a year are you doing? Because 406 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,519 I mean, like I mentioned before, my last one took 407 00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:48,519 two years, and I think that's because I think it 408 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:51,240 was laziness. Because I guess you can push yourself harder. 409 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,679 Speaker 3: Right now, I'm on sort of like a two book 410 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,559 a year schedule because I've got so I've got The Assassins, 411 00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,799 which is coming out in June. 412 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: I'm on a June track for that. 413 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,039 Speaker 3: In January, I'm going to have a book called Detour, 414 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,519 which was co written with Jeff Rake, who is the 415 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:12,400 creator and showwridder of the TV show Manifest. Oh man, 416 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,680 so that is, and that's going to be a series too. 417 00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:17,559 So for a little while, I'm going to be writing 418 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,200 two books a year. I don't know how I feel 419 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:19,759 about that yet. 420 00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: How do authors work on that when you're I mean, 421 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:23,720 he comes to you with ideas and then then you 422 00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:25,240 work it out on zoom. I mean, how is it 423 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,920 that you're you're able to do that? 424 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: That was he came to me with a pitch. 425 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,279 Speaker 3: Well, well, I mean his agent came to me first 426 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:33,599 because I know his agent and said. 427 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: The dude is looking for a co writer. 428 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, So we met and we hit it off famously. 429 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,599 Speaker 2: Great dude, super awesome. 430 00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 3: And he comes from the TV world, which TV is 431 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,759 a collaborative medium, so he understands how that works. So yeah, 432 00:17:46,799 --> 00:17:48,400 you know, he came to me with this big pitch 433 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:50,079 and I went through it and I said, hey, here's 434 00:17:50,079 --> 00:17:51,119 all the stuff that I love. 435 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,799 Speaker 2: Here's all the stuff I would do differently, here's all 436 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:53,839 the stuff I'm going to suggest. 437 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: Nice. 438 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:55,599 Speaker 2: We felt good about it. 439 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 3: We ripped back and forth for a little while, and 440 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,440 then we just kind of started. You know, I'll write 441 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,440 a whole bunch, I'll send it to him. He'll do 442 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,000 edits and add stuff and take stuff out, and it's 443 00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:07,000 a lot of back and forth. 444 00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:09,039 Speaker 1: Oh my god. That usually when I have to go 445 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:10,599 and do the self editing and stuff like that, it's 446 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,359 like it'd be like the Medusa Protocol Part one and 447 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,119 then Part two would be the next edit, then part 448 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,400 three would be the next edit, and it's like, okay, 449 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,079 which one of these edits is the right one? 450 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know we went through well, well, you know, 451 00:18:24,279 --> 00:18:25,720 we didn't. I usually do. 452 00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 3: If I'm doing a book, I usually do four or 453 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,759 five editorial passes before it goes off to somebody. Okay, 454 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,519 with Detour, we got to do a little bit less, 455 00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:36,119 but that was also we had the benefit of two 456 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,160 sets of eyes on it every time it was going 457 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:38,880 through the process. 458 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: That's a comfortable position to be because in this way 459 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,200 it leads, you know, you can get you know, you 460 00:18:43,319 --> 00:18:44,960 kind of just go back and forth with each other. 461 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 462 00:18:47,079 --> 00:18:49,599 Speaker 1: Wow, All right, where can people go to find out 463 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,079 more about you, Rob and everything that you're doing it? 464 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:53,559 Because I've got your book right here in front of me. 465 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,920 I know what your books are. But I know listeners 466 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,400 they you know, when they go to their book clubs 467 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,920 and things or where they're talking in a circle for 468 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,400 the summer, they want I know more about what's going on. 469 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:02,599 Speaker 2: Yeah. 470 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 3: Absolutely, well, So Madusa Protocol comes out June twenty fourth. 471 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,039 Speaker 2: Assassin's Anonymous. 472 00:19:08,079 --> 00:19:11,799 Speaker 3: The paperback is currently the June Mystery and thriller pick 473 00:19:11,839 --> 00:19:14,200 at Barnes and Noble, So you can walk into any 474 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,319 Barnes and Noble and there's. 475 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:16,599 Speaker 2: Going to be a giant pile of them right in 476 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,920 the front. Ye. Then I have a. 477 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,839 Speaker 3: Website which is Robwheart dot com and from there you 478 00:19:22,839 --> 00:19:25,960 can find my Instagram, my Blue Sky, my substack and 479 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:26,880 all that nonsense. 480 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,799 Speaker 1: So if you don't like listening to your voice when 481 00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:31,359 it comes to the audio is part of the story. 482 00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:33,119 How do you feel when you walk into a Barnes 483 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,759 and Noble and your book is staring at you with 484 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:36,200 a moment you walk in that door. 485 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 2: Oh, that's the most amazing feeling. Yeah. 486 00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,839 Speaker 3: Look, because I'll tell you this late like you get it, 487 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,440 like you usually you walk into a bookstore, You're lucky 488 00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:47,039 if they have like maybe a. 489 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: Book or two of yours. 490 00:19:48,039 --> 00:19:48,519 Speaker 1: Yeah. 491 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 3: Right, And now with this promotion, I've been to over 492 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,039 a dozen Barns and Nobles to sign stock for them, 493 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,359 and I walk in and there's a pile of twenty thirty, 494 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,640 forty fifty copies and I'm like, this is not a 495 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,359 bad life. 496 00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: Well, you've got to come back to this show anytime 497 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,440 in the future. The door is always going to be 498 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:07,160 open for you, sir. 499 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. 500 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today? 501 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,799 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, you too. You have a great day.