Speaker 1: Today's episode of the Tribe Cast is sponsored by the
Speaker 1: Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Welcome to the Trib Cast. I'm
Speaker 1: Eleanor Klibanoff, joined by co host and editor in chief
Speaker 1: Matthew Watkins. Our other co host, James Bargon, is off today. Matthew,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great? How about yourself?
Speaker 1: Pretty good? Pretty good?
Speaker 2: Just the two of us, indeed lonely up here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got some guests on zoom that we're going
Speaker 1: to turn too shortly. But before we get into that, Matthew,
Speaker 1: I did want to talk to you about what's going
Speaker 1: on over at Texas A and M. You're a proud alum.
Speaker 1: I understand that is true.
Speaker 2: Yet not hiding. I'm very I may have brought it
Speaker 2: up once.
Speaker 1: Or twice, may have worn the ring occasionally, but you know,
Speaker 1: as the Texas Tribune has sort of exclusively reported this week,
Speaker 1: the Board of Regents is down to five candidates for chancellor.
Speaker 1: We're hearing down to Texas Controller Glenn Hagar, US Rep.
Speaker 1: Michael McCall, Texas A and M Foundation President Tyson Vocal.
Speaker 1: Is that right right? University of Alabama President Stuart Bell,
Speaker 1: and State Rep. Trent Ashby. Are you offended that you're
Speaker 1: not on the list?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the chancellor does make a pretty
Speaker 2: good salary. I will say that it is a pretty
Speaker 2: hard job, though, you know, I think when you talk
Speaker 2: about like sort of differing constituencies, higher ed administrator right
Speaker 2: now in Texas is a pretty challenging one. You've got
Speaker 2: a very conservative legislator and governor who's appointing the board
Speaker 2: of Regents. Many of those legislators and regents seem uniquely
Speaker 2: interested right now in the you know, social media postings
Speaker 2: and emails and various other things of a very large
Speaker 2: group of faculty members. It seems like if you're in
Speaker 2: this job, you're probably going to have to be called
Speaker 2: on to explain, you know, some of those things in
Speaker 2: a way that you're probably not going to find very fun.
Speaker 2: You then also have a you know, young constituency, a
Speaker 2: faculty that maybe doesn't align as much politically with the
Speaker 2: rest of the legislature, and it creates just you know,
Speaker 2: it might be impossible to keep all those happy. So
Speaker 2: you're you're earning all those all those dollars in that jump.
Speaker 1: You're also responsible for a bunch of eighteen to twenty
Speaker 1: two year olds, which is a nightmare.
Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed and perhaps most challenging. You are, you know,
Speaker 2: at the very top of the food chain as things
Speaker 2: go down toward the football team, right and as you
Speaker 2: are an aggy Yeah, you're probably grumpy about all the
Speaker 2: football and all the the the you know, missed opportunities there,
Speaker 2: the losses to certain other teams and everything like that.
Speaker 2: That's why I have my eye on this Alabama University
Speaker 2: of Alabama president Stuart Bell. I wonder if he goes
Speaker 2: into the board of Regions and says, look, I know I.
Speaker 1: Know how to win a couple of them. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: grew up in a a role tide family, so I
Speaker 1: am you know, gonna be honest, I don't know the
Speaker 1: Texas A and M that we want that, you know,
Speaker 1: people from Alabama want Texas A and M coming and
Speaker 1: taking their president.
Speaker 2: But uh, well, you know you have to let people.
Speaker 1: Hasn't been the best season.
Speaker 2: That can't be you. You've found yourself in Texas, you can't.
Speaker 1: You know, That's true. Me and Stuart Bell both finding
Speaker 1: ourselves in Texas. Perhaps, Yeah, well we'll be watching that.
Speaker 1: Our crack higher education team is like, you know, very
Speaker 1: well sourced on that front.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, seriously though, I mean, I think it's really
Speaker 2: interesting to watch because you've got a few, like pretty
Speaker 2: prominent political positions on this list, right, I mean, if
Speaker 2: if if Hagger is the choice, then you have a
Speaker 2: statewide elected office up for grabs, there will probably be
Speaker 2: some jockeying there. Of course, Michael McCall, a fairly prominent
Speaker 2: member of Congress, would also be a pretty notable change.
Speaker 2: And then you know trin Ashby is well, so there's
Speaker 2: there's possible domino effects here that could be really interesting
Speaker 2: to watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really speaks to like how important this is
Speaker 1: not a figurehead position, and John Sharp, who held the
Speaker 1: position before, certainly I think contributed to making it into
Speaker 1: the political powerhouse role that it is.
Speaker 2: Indeed.
Speaker 1: All right, so we'll keep Matthew at the head of
Speaker 1: the Texas Tribune, We'll keep one of these guys at
Speaker 1: the head of Texas A.
Speaker 2: And m I'm still available, willing to watch it call.
Speaker 1: You know, I think everyone is in the role they
Speaker 1: should be. But you know, that is not what we
Speaker 1: are here to talk about this week. We are gonna
Speaker 1: this week, you know, usually we're sort of looking ahead
Speaker 1: to what the legislature is going to do this session,
Speaker 1: which we are going to talk about. But to start,
Speaker 1: we're actually going to look back on where the states
Speaker 1: stood about a year ago. Here in Texas, the largest
Speaker 1: wildfire in state history ripped through the Panhandle. More than
Speaker 1: a million acres burned, at least two people and ten
Speaker 1: thousand cattle died. The financial losses totaled more than one
Speaker 1: billion dollars. We're gonna talk about things stand in the
Speaker 1: Panhandle now a year later, what ranchers and residents hope
Speaker 1: the legislature might do this session, and how Texas can
Speaker 1: better prepare for wildfires more generally. We're joined by Jamie
Speaker 1: Lozano Carver, the Tribune's high planes reporter who's based in Lubbock. Hi, Jamie, Hi,
Speaker 1: eleanor how is in Lubbock these days?
Speaker 3: It's actually getting warmer this week, so it's been pretty nice.
Speaker 1: Great. We're also joined by doctor Carle Purdham from the
Speaker 1: University of Houston, who's the lead investigator on a research
Speaker 1: project looking at the Panhandle wildfires and how communities in
Speaker 1: Texas are managing wildfire risk. Welcome doctor Purdam.
Speaker 4: Thank you. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1: Thank you both for joining us on this really important topic. Jamie,
Speaker 1: you covered these fires a year ago. Just tell us
Speaker 1: about that experience, like what it was like for you
Speaker 1: going up there and seeing that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it was it was a very hard experience.
Speaker 3: It was very sad because you know, I went up
Speaker 3: there within I think it was the first day that
Speaker 3: the fires had started, and so one of the first
Speaker 3: stops that I made was at the dairy queen and fridge,
Speaker 3: and that's where a lot of the firefighters were taking
Speaker 3: a break, and you could kind of see how exhausted
Speaker 3: they looked. A lot of them looked checked out at
Speaker 3: that point after what they had been dealing with. And
Speaker 3: then even just driving around, you could already see the
Speaker 3: effects taking place. There was smoke all over the region.
Speaker 3: The ground was black. Unfortunately, like you mentioned, there was
Speaker 3: a lot of dead cattle that was just out in
Speaker 3: the open that people could just see. And of course,
Speaker 3: you know, we saw a lot of a lot of
Speaker 3: people coming through to help too. We saw a lot
Speaker 3: of trucks going through and carrying bales of hay for
Speaker 3: the ranchers that needed it. And you know, I think
Speaker 3: that what it's probably stuck with me. The most was
Speaker 3: just kind of seeing the makeshift shelters that were put
Speaker 3: up around all the cities that were affected, where they
Speaker 3: just had people from the Panhandle Foal who were either
Speaker 3: helping or who were scared and trying to escape what
Speaker 3: was going on. So, yeah, it was just it was
Speaker 3: very it was hard, you know, just.
Speaker 2: To put in context. I'm I'm looking this up on
Speaker 2: my phone as we're talking. The Los Angeles area wildfires.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously terrible tragedy, a much denser area. Fifty
Speaker 2: seven thousand, six hundred and sixty five acres burned in
Speaker 2: that fire. The Panhandle fire burned over one million acres,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously different locations there, a lot of different properties,
Speaker 2: but still in the scale, the scale of the fire
Speaker 2: was pretty unbelievable in terms of how widespread it was
Speaker 2: across this area of the state.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Also, Jamie, you are just to let people behind
Speaker 1: the curtain a little bit, and you cited one of
Speaker 1: the number one reporting techniques in the world, which is
Speaker 1: go to the dairy queen. You can usually it's usually
Speaker 1: a good first stop. Jamie, Like a year later, what
Speaker 1: do we know about how these fires started? Sort of
Speaker 1: how they unfolded and looking back, like, you know, what's
Speaker 1: the sort of total count on the impact for ranchers
Speaker 1: and residents of that area.
Speaker 3: So you know that I should really say that week,
Speaker 3: while everything was starting and really spreading around the region,
Speaker 3: there were five fires that were just going through that
Speaker 3: were scattered, and I would say within that first twenty
Speaker 3: four hours had already burned a lot of the acres
Speaker 3: that we were talking about. The House committee that investigated
Speaker 3: the fires last year, they found that the fires were
Speaker 3: actually started by failed power lines. You know, in the
Speaker 3: case of the Smokehouse Creek fire, which, like you said before,
Speaker 3: it became the biggest fire in state history, the ignition
Speaker 3: was from a decayed power line that had the decayed
Speaker 3: power poll that broke and fell into dry grass. So
Speaker 3: it was just, you know, it was it was a
Speaker 3: ignition that was just waiting to happen, essentially, And we
Speaker 3: also know that they the fire spread and incredibly fast
Speaker 3: that day because of the high winds, So we just
Speaker 3: kind of know how that played out. But as far
Speaker 3: as the impact goes, I think the financial loss has
Speaker 3: been one of the hardest aspects for the residents in
Speaker 3: the Panhandle to come back from ranchers in particular, have
Speaker 3: had to worry about, you know, equipment, like getting their
Speaker 3: fences and gates fixed just so they can keep their
Speaker 3: cattle in their pastures. And that's a lot, even if
Speaker 3: you don't lose a majority of your livestock. And I think,
Speaker 3: you know, aside from financial I think the biggest toll
Speaker 3: would be the mental impact that this has had for
Speaker 3: people up there. I was visiting Canadian a few weeks ago,
Speaker 3: and there are people there who get scared whenever they
Speaker 3: hear the emergency sirens go off. You know, It's a
Speaker 3: year later and they're still very anxious about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean that sort of we talk about
Speaker 1: sort of like climate change and the almost like PTSD
Speaker 1: effects of living through a natural disaster, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: a fire, a flood, anything like that. Doctor Purdam, your
Speaker 1: work looks a little bit sort of what happens after
Speaker 1: the fire recedes and the recovery begins. Tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about the research you're doing in the Panhandle
Speaker 1: and the challenges these communities are going to face as
Speaker 1: they rebuild.
Speaker 3: Sure, so I'm involved in two projects.
Speaker 4: What I'm leading is looking at the Panhandle and a
Speaker 4: lot of the challenges that face emergency management, but also
Speaker 4: a lot of the healthcare infrastructure and just being in
Speaker 4: a rural area, how they how the disaster impacted their
Speaker 4: decision making. You know, we invest a lot in plans
Speaker 4: and you know, putting together you know, scenarios of what
Speaker 4: would you do if a wildfire happened, and this was
Speaker 4: you know, wildfires are very different from say a hazard
Speaker 4: like a hurricane, because it's very difficult to predict, it's
Speaker 4: very difficult to keep track of where the impact is growing.
Speaker 4: The situation just changes so quickly. So looking at you know,
Speaker 4: this disaster and how how emergency management, how local communities
Speaker 4: and leaders, how they responded, and what you know, how
Speaker 4: the unique, how the uniqueness of the massive scale of
Speaker 4: the wildfire, how that impacted their decision making, what would
Speaker 4: they take into the next wildfire? And then you know,
Speaker 4: just broadly, Uh, I'm part of another project, uh working
Speaker 4: with folks at Texas A and M, the Hazard Reduction
Speaker 4: Recovery Center, the USA Center for Oral Preparedness, and we're
Speaker 4: broadly looking at Texas and other goal states on you know,
Speaker 4: how are communities responding to increasing wildfire risk, especially in
Speaker 4: rural areas, and so we see a lot of the
Speaker 4: same you know, challenges, and that folks are dealing with
Speaker 4: increasing risk and increasing vulnerability. We know, the folks in
Speaker 4: the Panhandle know that this won't be the last wildfire
Speaker 4: in that area, and knowing that you are recovering and
Speaker 4: you're trying to you know, rebuild, and but also having
Speaker 4: to think, you know what, you know, how are we rebuilding?
Speaker 4: How are we you know, reviewing our plans and reviewing
Speaker 4: our practices to be prepared for what is coming next.
Speaker 4: So they're on that front line of knowing that the
Speaker 4: risk is there and trying to you know, recover, but
Speaker 4: also be prepared for, you know, the next wildfire disaster.
Speaker 2: Doctor Brintham. You know, I feel like when we talk
Speaker 2: about what led to an incident like this, it's often
Speaker 2: the same thing, right, you know, you had maybe a
Speaker 2: wet period, you know, in the time leading up to it,
Speaker 2: leading to lots of growth, then a dry period that
Speaker 2: follows that, which leads to a lot of sort of
Speaker 2: you know, for lack of a better term, sort of
Speaker 2: kindling for a fire. Then you get a very dry
Speaker 2: period with high winds and some kind of inciting incident,
Speaker 2: right like a power line going down, you know, someone
Speaker 2: throwing a cigarette out the window or anything like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of those things are very hard
Speaker 2: to control. I'm curious as you look back at this fire,
Speaker 2: whether this is an incident of just conditions were right
Speaker 2: for this and there's not much you could do, or
Speaker 2: were there things that went wrong either in the preparation
Speaker 2: or the response to the fire that made this worse
Speaker 2: than it might have otherwise could have been.
Speaker 4: Well, I think you know, when we talk about disasters,
Speaker 4: most disaster scholars we don't even really refer to them
Speaker 4: as natural. We refer to them as disasters because the
Speaker 4: term natural disaster implies that there's nothing you could do
Speaker 4: about it, and that there's something that's coming from the outside.
Speaker 4: And that's how we've responded to disasters before. But we
Speaker 4: know with risk, there are a lot of things we
Speaker 4: can do to mitigate risk. And you know, I know
Speaker 4: that the the areas that we are seeing that are
Speaker 4: impacted in especially rural communities, are you know, on the
Speaker 4: front lines. They are leading response efforts, and they're from
Speaker 4: our research and from a lot of that involves going
Speaker 4: into communities in the Panhandle across Texas Louisiana. We know
Speaker 4: that especially local fire departments, they're on the front lines
Speaker 4: of responding to these you know kinds of crisis and
Speaker 4: not just in terms of you know, we think of
Speaker 4: firefighters as when the fire is there, that they're going
Speaker 4: out and responding to them. But with you know, risk
Speaker 4: and the increasing risk is in so many of these communities,
Speaker 4: they know that it's there, they're seeing it, and they
Speaker 4: are working to you know, they have a new you know,
Speaker 4: you know task that's been put on them. Another another
Speaker 4: burden in addition to just responding to risk, but in
Speaker 4: communicating and trying to advocate to individuals in the communities
Speaker 4: to local governments that where the risk is. In communities
Speaker 4: across Texas, you know, there's a lot of different challenges,
Speaker 4: especially with you have a lot of people moving in
Speaker 4: from out of state or from other communities into more
Speaker 4: rural areas and there's increasing development in the wild and
Speaker 4: urban interface and that has created a lot of challenges
Speaker 4: especially in how just changes in land management. So in
Speaker 4: conversations with and with leaders and fire departments and emergency management,
Speaker 4: local government, you know, that's causing a lot of risk
Speaker 4: to be developed. So it's people who you know, they
Speaker 4: may come in and be you know, a part of
Speaker 4: the community that maybe was before unmanaged wild land and
Speaker 4: now it's a development with say like ten acre lots
Speaker 4: in them, and each lot now has a fence line,
Speaker 4: and where before maybe that the land and the fuel there,
Speaker 4: the assets and things we're being managed and now it's
Speaker 4: all that kind of fuel is building up, and maybe
Speaker 4: that person you know in that community don't realize that
Speaker 4: what they're doing is you know, creating more risk that's
Speaker 4: going to be difficult for the fire department to manage,
Speaker 4: and then also creating a lot more challenges in terms
Speaker 4: of responding to fires, So creating more fence lines and
Speaker 4: more private property that folks are going to have to navigate.
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of different intersecting challenges and I
Speaker 4: can say from the most important thing that we've learned
Speaker 4: is really listening more to the folks who are on
Speaker 4: the front lines, who aren't just yes, they're responding to
Speaker 4: the disaster, but they're seeing the risk build up every
Speaker 4: day and are are working to try to communicate that.
Speaker 4: But they need to be empowered. And that's what part
Speaker 4: of our project is is taking down the lessons that
Speaker 4: they've learned, and trying to communicate them so that they
Speaker 4: can be you know, empowered and listen to with with
Speaker 4: the increasing risks they're seeing in their communities.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, certainly that development I think we're
Speaker 1: seeing everywhere. We're gonna talk a little bit about, you know,
Speaker 1: how this is not just a Panhandle issue, but Jamie
Speaker 1: tell us a little bit. I mean, I know, after
Speaker 1: the wildfires, there was a lot of talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: the legislature is going to come back, there's things we
Speaker 1: need them to do to help us both you know,
Speaker 1: respond better in the future, but also sort of rebuild
Speaker 1: these communities. What do people in the Panhandle want this
Speaker 1: session and what sort of are we seeing momentum on.
Speaker 3: Well, really, I think people in the Panhandle just want
Speaker 3: this to be addressed in some way, you know. In particular,
Speaker 3: I was hearing that they want, you know, if there
Speaker 3: was some way like to do kind of like a
Speaker 3: fire task force. There's one proposal in the legislature right
Speaker 3: now where it would be creating a database firefighting equipment
Speaker 3: that's readily available in the state, and they love that proposal.
Speaker 3: So really, you know, we're talking about an area that
Speaker 3: has historically felt ignored by Austin and by the lawmakers there,
Speaker 3: and I think that that's what they're aiming for. They
Speaker 3: want to see this get addressed on a much bigger
Speaker 3: level than how they typically address it at home. But
Speaker 3: then on top of that, I do think that there's momentum.
Speaker 3: I think that you know, there is probably people who
Speaker 3: may have forgotten about what happened, or you know, who
Speaker 3: think things are fine now. But if that's the case,
Speaker 3: you know, there are lawmakers who represent the Panhandle that
Speaker 3: are not letting that happen. You know. Like I said earlier,
Speaker 3: it's it's Senator Kevin Sparks who filed the bill about
Speaker 3: creating the firefighting Equipment Database. He and Representative King also
Speaker 3: filed joint bills that would fund rural Volunteer fire Department.
Speaker 3: But I think the one that people in the Panhandle
Speaker 3: are most excited about is another bill that was filed
Speaker 3: by King, who you know, of course, he was born
Speaker 3: and raised in Canadian so he has a really good
Speaker 3: idea of what they're dealing with and what they need.
Speaker 3: And his bill would essentially give that authority to address
Speaker 3: faulty electrical lines to both the public utility Commission and
Speaker 3: the Railroad Commission. And so, for those who may not remember,
Speaker 3: this was a big point of contention during the investigative
Speaker 3: hearings last year because neither authority felt that it was
Speaker 3: their jurisdiction and it was being called, you know, essentially
Speaker 3: a no man's land, and so that made it very
Speaker 3: difficult to determine which agencies should be overseeing that maintenance.
Speaker 3: And that is probably, I would say, the most pressing concern,
Speaker 3: especially for ranchers out there, who you know, aside from
Speaker 3: large wildfires just about every year, they also deal with
Speaker 3: smaller fires that still affect them on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Matthew, a thing we've talked about seemingly endlessly in the
Speaker 1: early episodes of this podcast, the Speaker's Race, it comes
Speaker 1: full circle. We have, you know, a speaker from from
Speaker 1: the Panhandle representing do we consider lub Oh my god,
Speaker 1: am I going to get chased out of town? Write
Speaker 1: a story that was like, this is the first Panhandle speaker,
Speaker 1: Oh God.
Speaker 3: Close to the Panhandle. So technically technically Lubbock is the Panhandle.
Speaker 1: Kelly On.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you ask anybody in Lubbock, they will not
Speaker 3: say we're the Panhandle. We are the South Plains or
Speaker 3: we're West Texas.
Speaker 1: Okay, but I believe what I did here was technically
Speaker 1: I am correct.
Speaker 2: I would like to have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I played by the rules. You know, We've
Speaker 1: got a lot more to talk about. I do want
Speaker 1: to take a quick break, and I encourage people stick
Speaker 1: around because we at the end of this episode, we'll
Speaker 1: have an update on one of the feel good stories
Speaker 1: coming out of the wildfires. We got a little update
Speaker 1: to offer you guys on that story, So do stick around.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and thank our sponsors, the
Speaker 1: Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Deliver Texas sized insight at your
Speaker 1: next event. With the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Our reporters
Speaker 1: and editors are ready to bring your event to life
Speaker 1: with context and analysis. Only they can deliver. Book us
Speaker 1: at Texastribune dot org slash speakers.
Speaker 2: I kind of interrupted you. Was there actually a question
Speaker 2: you were wanting to ask there about the speaker?
Speaker 1: We actually did get distracted? Is that kind of like, well, no,
Speaker 1: I don't it doesn't apply anymore.
Speaker 2: I ruined it.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well no, Also, the question was like, do you
Speaker 1: think the fact that we have a speaker who is
Speaker 1: from near the Panhandle might put more attention on Panhandle issues,
Speaker 1: a region that, as Jamie said, often feels sort of ignored.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, Jamie, I'm interested in hearing your
Speaker 2: thoughts on this, but I think it's I think the
Speaker 2: people up there found that very meaningful. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: Caroline Fairly, who's from Amarillo, which is the Panhandle, you know,
Speaker 2: really actually cited that as one of the reasons she
Speaker 2: was she was getting on Burrow's side, and I think
Speaker 2: there were a lot of people kind of in that
Speaker 2: region feeling like someone who understands this very unique part
Speaker 2: of the state is meaningful for questions like this, not
Speaker 2: just around you know, wildfire mitigation or response, but also
Speaker 2: healthcare and education and a lot of the other things
Speaker 2: that are you know, of course coming up this legislative
Speaker 2: session as well.
Speaker 1: It's good that Speaker Burrows can understand the issues of
Speaker 1: the Panhandled despite not being from the Panhandle or representing it.
Speaker 1: We admire with that about him. Okay, doctor Purdam to actually, uh,
Speaker 1: this is a nice segue because wildfires are not a
Speaker 1: problem exclusive to the Panhandle, though you know, obviously it's
Speaker 1: an issue that ranchers in the Panhandle deal with a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, we as Matthew said, we saw these wildfires
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, we see wildfires in cities as well.
Speaker 1: What like wildfire threats do other states parts of the
Speaker 1: state face. Is this a threat for people in cities
Speaker 1: as if not as much in the Panhandle, you know
Speaker 1: to some extent.
Speaker 4: Well, I would say that wildfire risk, you know, it's
Speaker 4: increasing everywhere. They might have a low risk, but whatever
Speaker 4: that lower risk is is increasing. Many communities think, you know,
Speaker 4: this couldn't possibly happen here. I think that, you know,
Speaker 4: many individuals think that with many different types of disasters,
Speaker 4: and they might not actually know what their risk is.
Speaker 4: And you know, there are you know, other states or
Speaker 4: places where wildfires are. They are you know, more understood
Speaker 4: to be part of the landscape. And in Texas that's
Speaker 4: definitely you know, accepted and understood in many places. But
Speaker 4: there are rising risks and and folks just may not
Speaker 4: know what what their risk is or how that risk
Speaker 4: is increasing. So communities are I know in Texas there
Speaker 4: have been some really strong efforts to support communities to
Speaker 4: become it's called fire wise communities, uh too. For I
Speaker 4: know there's a significant investment and trying to have communities
Speaker 4: and counties developed plans their wildfire wildfire I can't remember
Speaker 4: the exact name of the plan, but developed wildfire specific
Speaker 4: plans and so evaluating what is the wildfire risk in
Speaker 4: the community and what would be you know, ways to
Speaker 4: mitigate that risk, and you know, identifying areas of vulnerability.
Speaker 4: So there's you know, growing understanding and that you know,
Speaker 4: those are things that need to be addressed. The challenge
Speaker 4: again is, you know, a lot of these planning efforts, Uh,
Speaker 4: they cost time, they cost honey, they require to be
Speaker 4: really effective engagement with the public, and you know that's
Speaker 4: you know, not a simple task. So uh, you know,
Speaker 4: the Texas A and M for Services a lot of
Speaker 4: support for those efforts. But I think it's it's a growing,
Speaker 4: a growing issue. That's something we've talked with part of
Speaker 4: our project looking at Gulf States is people, you know,
Speaker 4: accept and understand that hurricanes are flooding are part of
Speaker 4: the risk landscape, but they may not understand, you know,
Speaker 4: that wildfires are part of that that landscape. And you know,
Speaker 4: we've talked about the massive scale of the Panhandle wildfire.
Speaker 4: But a fire doesn't need to be you know, on
Speaker 4: that massive scale to really cause damage. You know, a
Speaker 4: fire of say one hundred two hundred acres wherever it
Speaker 4: is can still destroy many homes structures in communities. So
Speaker 4: you know, folks may think that would never happen here,
Speaker 4: but you know that's always something that you know could
Speaker 4: be a possibility. There's it's it's understanding what their risk
Speaker 4: is and what they can do to mitigate it. And
Speaker 4: that's where I would say again, a thing that we're
Speaker 4: what we're learning from working with emergency managers, fire departments, folks,
Speaker 4: even you know, in local government, is that there is
Speaker 4: a there's a you know, gap between what they know
Speaker 4: and see and understand as the risk environment and what
Speaker 4: the community understands and sees. And you know, having that
Speaker 4: knowledge is important for making plans for being prepared. That's
Speaker 4: one of the difficult things about wildfires is there's not
Speaker 4: that kind of lead up time to say evacuate that
Speaker 4: you get with a storm that is well monitored, and
Speaker 4: the situation just becomes it changes so much more quickly.
Speaker 4: It's a it's a in many ways, it's just a
Speaker 4: more difficult kind of disaster to prepare for. So yeah,
Speaker 4: there's there's definitely a gap in what the public knows
Speaker 4: or thinks about, you know, what their risk is. And
Speaker 4: so you know, we're working to try to, you know,
Speaker 4: identify ways that communities can improve in communicating that and
Speaker 4: communicating that risk and then identifying you know, how they
Speaker 4: can you know, reduce the risk in our communities as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was you know, there's some reporting in the
Speaker 2: aftermath of the LA fires about how Austin at least
Speaker 2: one group ranked Austin as the sort of highest you know,
Speaker 2: mid to large sized city in the country in terms
Speaker 2: of that that's outside of southern California in terms of
Speaker 2: wildfire risk, right, And you know, a lot of us
Speaker 2: remember the fires in Bass Drop from you know, more
Speaker 2: than ten years ago, which we're very scary and kind
Speaker 2: of cree their way, and you know, if you drive
Speaker 2: through Bastrop today, it's still you still see the effects
Speaker 2: and impact of that.
Speaker 1: And certainly, like as you were saying, doctor Purdam, a
Speaker 1: lot more development, a lot more you know, like it's
Speaker 1: these are areas that have explored are they're exploding every year,
Speaker 1: So potentially have you know, grown a lot since they
Speaker 1: updated their wildfire plan or at least since residents sort
Speaker 1: of consider their wildfire risk.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's a good way to you know, you know,
Speaker 1: talk about this is like this is obviously there's people,
Speaker 1: as you said, doctor Purham, for whom this is sort
Speaker 1: of a way of life and they are prepared for
Speaker 1: this and thinking about this a lot. And then there's
Speaker 1: people who, like in Los Angeles, I think we're very
Speaker 1: caught off guard.
Speaker 2: I'm curious, doctor Purdham, what you think about the home
Speaker 2: insurance question about this. You know, after the fires in
Speaker 2: southern California, you know, there was all this conversation about
Speaker 2: insurers that had pulled out or what we're pulling out
Speaker 2: of California. You know, Texas, as you mentioned, has a
Speaker 2: lot of different threats, whether it's you know, tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, fires,
Speaker 2: you know, earthquakes maybe less so we have them, but
Speaker 2: they're not so big. But let's not roll it out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, how much do we need to be worried?
Speaker 2: How much do homeowners in this state need to be
Speaker 2: worried about the insurability of their properties? And you know,
Speaker 2: from a long term basis down here is all these
Speaker 2: kind of risks seem to grow or at least we
Speaker 2: grow more aware of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean I would definitely be concerned, just
Speaker 4: because as we're saying with you know, the same kind
Speaker 4: of trend with hurricanes and flooding in places along the
Speaker 4: Gulf coast. It's not my particular area of expertise, but
Speaker 4: I would say it's definitely something that we need to
Speaker 4: be watching and being prepared for as risk continues to grow.
Speaker 4: I mean, we know that, like we said, there are
Speaker 4: some communities that are prepared for this, but they're prepared
Speaker 4: for maybe even a previous climate and a previous level
Speaker 4: of risk, and that risk is increasing. So even our
Speaker 4: current you know, communities that have plans that are you know,
Speaker 4: maybe have been adequate in the past, are increasingly less
Speaker 4: adequate there they are, you know, have to be updated
Speaker 4: for future scenarios that we have perhaps even yet to imagine,
Speaker 4: you know, that kind of risk. So I would absolutely
Speaker 4: be concerned as we you know, as we continue in
Speaker 4: the future down this line of increasing risk, especially from climate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say, I'd definitely be concerned in watching,
Speaker 4: especially watching you know what's happening with other hats. It
Speaker 4: can absolutely happen here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly, I mean, I feel like between, like you know,
Speaker 1: we've had so many like once in a lifetime things happen,
Speaker 1: or worst or you know, worst case scenario things happened
Speaker 1: in Texas and the country and the world in recent years.
Speaker 1: So certainly, Jamie, I know when you were reporting at
Speaker 1: the time, you know, a year ago, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of talk from ranchers about, you know, can we
Speaker 1: keep going, can we rebuild? Do we have a future
Speaker 1: in ranching? Do we have a future in this area
Speaker 1: You've been up in Canadian recently, I mean, what sort
Speaker 1: of what are you hearing now? Are people sticking it out?
Speaker 1: Did we see an exodus of ranchers and farmers?
Speaker 3: Well, there are a lot of ranchers who are trying
Speaker 3: to get back to where they were before. But unfortunately
Speaker 3: it is a mix like what you were saying. You know,
Speaker 3: for example, Craig Cowden, he's a rancher up there that
Speaker 3: I've talked with a lot since the fires happened, and
Speaker 3: he didn't lose any cattle in the right so he
Speaker 3: doesn't know how, but he didn't, but his entire ranch
Speaker 3: did burn out. So even though his cattle survived, he
Speaker 3: still had to sell sixty percent of his livestock because
Speaker 3: the ground wasn't healthy enough for his actual full herd.
Speaker 3: So you know, there's a lot of those kind of
Speaker 3: decisions having to be made. And I think, you know,
Speaker 3: on the other hand, like there are ranchers out there
Speaker 3: who lost both their ranch and their livestock and decided
Speaker 3: that it was time to call it quits. And you
Speaker 3: know a lot of them, or at least I should
Speaker 3: say one in particular that I spoke with he was
Speaker 3: already at that age towards retirement. He was already considering it,
Speaker 3: and the fire just kind of helped him make that
Speaker 3: decision sooner. But that's that's just unfortunately, the reality of
Speaker 3: what they're they're dealing with right now is just making
Speaker 3: those hard decisions.
Speaker 1: And this is not like the only challenge that ranchers
Speaker 1: and farmers in Texas are facing. I mean, we've got,
Speaker 1: you know, have had intermittent drought over the last of
Speaker 1: recent years. Now we're talking a lot more about Avian
Speaker 1: flu other threats, you know, just like the uh sort
Speaker 1: of a lot of farmers are reaching retirement age and
Speaker 1: not deciding not to you know, don't have anyone to
Speaker 1: inherit their their work. What is the current sort of
Speaker 1: state of the state for agriculture. Was the impact for
Speaker 1: consumers too, as that sort of begins to face increasing threats.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, just thinking about consumers in general,
Speaker 3: we have to think about basic supply and demand, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the biggest poultry farms in Texas
Speaker 3: last year had to kill more than a million infected
Speaker 3: chickens that had the bird flu. And you know, cattle
Speaker 3: country hasn't been the same since the fires happened. And
Speaker 3: so while we have our poultry producers and our ranchers
Speaker 3: kind of in that influx, you know, that leaves us
Speaker 3: the consumers kind of just waiting to see what happens.
Speaker 3: And we have seen what has happened over the last
Speaker 3: few weeks with rising egg prices. But then you know,
Speaker 3: like you mentioned, you throw drought in there with all
Speaker 3: the other business ending type of factors, and it really
Speaker 3: just adds up. It's been a very rough couple of
Speaker 3: years for farmers in Texas.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, Well, I've got an update on a story.
Speaker 1: So we are very excited to bring this to you.
Speaker 1: The Texas Tribune so rarely writes stories with a little
Speaker 1: bit of hope in them. Increasingly we write sort of
Speaker 1: dismal stories about the horrors of our world. But in
Speaker 1: this case, right after the fires, my colleague Stephen Simpson
Speaker 1: was up in the Panhandle covering the hearings and he
Speaker 1: wrote a story about a Panhandle rancher named Dale Jenkins
Speaker 1: who emerged from the fires with one unharmed calf named Bobo.
Speaker 1: This was the story of Bobo, and people loved this story.
Speaker 1: We got a ton of feedback on it. We should say,
Speaker 1: Dale Jenkins also his adult you know heard survived, so
Speaker 1: this was just one calf that was unharmed. So we
Speaker 1: asked Stephen to follow up with Dale ahead of this
Speaker 1: week's episode to get a Bobo update. And this is
Speaker 1: what Dale had to say about Bobo quote. I actually
Speaker 1: had Bobo listed in my production sale for this March
Speaker 1: twenty second, but yesterday he failed a fertility test and
Speaker 1: I told my wife he would have to go to slaughter.
Speaker 1: She's insisting that I not do that and instead use
Speaker 1: him as a sterile bull often called a gomer bull
Speaker 1: for my AI parentheses artificial insemination not intelligence program to
Speaker 1: help me identify females in heat. So Bobo lives, no baby.
Speaker 1: Bobo's but Bobo was saved from slaughter by Dale Jenkins's wife.
Speaker 2: You know, I think I feel like if he if
Speaker 2: he had promoted him as an Ai cow, he sucker.
Speaker 2: You know, that's really buzzy.
Speaker 1: Everyone in Austin was like, wait, an Ai, we're saving
Speaker 1: him for Ai. I'll give you a million exactly. But no,
Speaker 1: we're thrilled to tell everyone that, you know, Bobo almost
Speaker 1: died twice, survived the fires, survived the slaughterhouse, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be living out his days identifying females in heat.
Speaker 1: So that's our update on Bobo. Definitely, do you have
Speaker 1: any other Matthew. We have a forthcoming story this week
Speaker 1: from Jamie on you know, sort of the legislative priorities
Speaker 1: around wildfires. But I just want to thank Jamie for
Speaker 1: joining us and for your coverage, you know, during a
Speaker 1: very difficult time last year. And doctor Purdham for your
Speaker 1: for joining us and for your ongoing work in the
Speaker 1: Panhandle on the wildfires. Thank you both for joining us.
Speaker 1: That's it for today. You can find all episodes of
Speaker 1: the Trip cast on YouTube or wherever you find your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Be sure to like, subscribe, and share the podcast on
Speaker 1: all of your platforms. If you'd like to get in
Speaker 1: touch with the team, you can reach us at tripcast
Speaker 1: at Texastribune dot org. We want to thank our sponsor,
Speaker 1: the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Our producers are Rob Avila,
Speaker 1: who has returned from Japan.
Speaker 2: I hope the Japanese musical tour was great. I hope
Speaker 2: everyone rocked out to the tripcast.
Speaker 1: Theme absolutely and Chris Swoboda, who was not invited to Japan.
Speaker 1: And there's no beef happening in our back room right now.
Speaker 2: And much like we will not forget Bobo, we will
Speaker 2: not forget this injustice.
Speaker 1: Absolutely until Chris is taken to Japan, we will not
Speaker 1: rest our theme music is composed by Rob the Betrayer.
Speaker 1: See you next week.