1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,799 Speaker 1: Today's episode of the Tribe Cast is sponsored by the 2 00:00:06,839 --> 00:00:14,400 Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Welcome to the Trib Cast. I'm 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,760 Eleanor Klibanoff, joined by co host and editor in chief 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:23,000 Matthew Watkins. Our other co host, James Bargon, is off today. Matthew, 5 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:23,440 how are you? 6 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:24,879 Speaker 2: I'm doing great? How about yourself? 7 00:00:24,879 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: Pretty good? Pretty good? 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: Just the two of us, indeed lonely up here. 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got some guests on zoom that we're going 10 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:34,799 to turn too shortly. But before we get into that, Matthew, 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,759 I did want to talk to you about what's going 12 00:00:36,799 --> 00:00:40,439 on over at Texas A and M. You're a proud alum. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,520 I understand that is true. 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: Yet not hiding. I'm very I may have brought it 15 00:00:47,399 --> 00:00:47,759 up once. 16 00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Or twice, may have worn the ring occasionally, but you know, 17 00:00:51,079 --> 00:00:54,280 as the Texas Tribune has sort of exclusively reported this week, 18 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,159 the Board of Regents is down to five candidates for chancellor. 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:04,640 We're hearing down to Texas Controller Glenn Hagar, US Rep. 20 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,879 Michael McCall, Texas A and M Foundation President Tyson Vocal. 21 00:01:09,079 --> 00:01:12,480 Is that right right? University of Alabama President Stuart Bell, 22 00:01:12,719 --> 00:01:16,560 and State Rep. Trent Ashby. Are you offended that you're 23 00:01:16,599 --> 00:01:17,280 not on the list? 24 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the chancellor does make a pretty 25 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,760 good salary. I will say that it is a pretty 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,959 hard job, though, you know, I think when you talk 27 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,799 about like sort of differing constituencies, higher ed administrator right 28 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,599 now in Texas is a pretty challenging one. You've got 29 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,760 a very conservative legislator and governor who's appointing the board 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:45,760 of Regents. Many of those legislators and regents seem uniquely 31 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:49,280 interested right now in the you know, social media postings 32 00:01:49,319 --> 00:01:53,599 and emails and various other things of a very large 33 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,599 group of faculty members. It seems like if you're in 34 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,000 this job, you're probably going to have to be called 35 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:03,200 on to explain, you know, some of those things in 36 00:02:03,239 --> 00:02:05,359 a way that you're probably not going to find very fun. 37 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,759 You then also have a you know, young constituency, a 38 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,919 faculty that maybe doesn't align as much politically with the 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:19,039 rest of the legislature, and it creates just you know, 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,159 it might be impossible to keep all those happy. So 41 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:24,199 you're you're earning all those all those dollars in that jump. 42 00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:26,039 Speaker 1: You're also responsible for a bunch of eighteen to twenty 43 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,319 two year olds, which is a nightmare. 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed and perhaps most challenging. You are, you know, 45 00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:37,639 at the very top of the food chain as things 46 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,639 go down toward the football team, right and as you 47 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,759 are an aggy Yeah, you're probably grumpy about all the 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:51,280 football and all the the the you know, missed opportunities there, 49 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,680 the losses to certain other teams and everything like that. 50 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,000 That's why I have my eye on this Alabama University 51 00:02:57,039 --> 00:03:00,240 of Alabama president Stuart Bell. I wonder if he goes 52 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,719 into the board of Regions and says, look, I know I. 53 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,879 Speaker 1: Know how to win a couple of them. Yeah. I 54 00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:09,319 grew up in a a role tide family, so I 55 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,199 am you know, gonna be honest, I don't know the 56 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,400 Texas A and M that we want that, you know, 57 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:17,599 people from Alabama want Texas A and M coming and 58 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:18,479 taking their president. 59 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,879 Speaker 2: But uh, well, you know you have to let people. 60 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,199 Speaker 1: Hasn't been the best season. 61 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,599 Speaker 2: That can't be you. You've found yourself in Texas, you can't. 62 00:03:25,719 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 1: You know, That's true. Me and Stuart Bell both finding 63 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,800 ourselves in Texas. Perhaps, Yeah, well we'll be watching that. 64 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,520 Our crack higher education team is like, you know, very 65 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:36,360 well sourced on that front. 66 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:37,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, seriously though, I mean, I think it's really 67 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:40,280 interesting to watch because you've got a few, like pretty 68 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:44,800 prominent political positions on this list, right, I mean, if 69 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:48,199 if if Hagger is the choice, then you have a 70 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,840 statewide elected office up for grabs, there will probably be 71 00:03:51,879 --> 00:03:55,280 some jockeying there. Of course, Michael McCall, a fairly prominent 72 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:58,719 member of Congress, would also be a pretty notable change. 73 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:02,080 And then you know trin Ashby is well, so there's 74 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,960 there's possible domino effects here that could be really interesting 75 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:05,360 to watch. 76 00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:07,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really speaks to like how important this is 77 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,800 not a figurehead position, and John Sharp, who held the 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,840 position before, certainly I think contributed to making it into 79 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,759 the political powerhouse role that it is. 80 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: Indeed. 81 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,199 Speaker 1: All right, so we'll keep Matthew at the head of 82 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,319 the Texas Tribune, We'll keep one of these guys at 83 00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:21,199 the head of Texas A. 84 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: And m I'm still available, willing to watch it call. 85 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: You know, I think everyone is in the role they 86 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,720 should be. But you know, that is not what we 87 00:04:31,759 --> 00:04:33,560 are here to talk about this week. We are gonna 88 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,839 this week, you know, usually we're sort of looking ahead 89 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,040 to what the legislature is going to do this session, 90 00:04:39,079 --> 00:04:41,240 which we are going to talk about. But to start, 91 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,199 we're actually going to look back on where the states 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,920 stood about a year ago. Here in Texas, the largest 93 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,959 wildfire in state history ripped through the Panhandle. More than 94 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,839 a million acres burned, at least two people and ten 95 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:57,800 thousand cattle died. The financial losses totaled more than one 96 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,800 billion dollars. We're gonna talk about things stand in the 97 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,439 Panhandle now a year later, what ranchers and residents hope 98 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:07,720 the legislature might do this session, and how Texas can 99 00:05:07,759 --> 00:05:11,800 better prepare for wildfires more generally. We're joined by Jamie 100 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:17,199 Lozano Carver, the Tribune's high planes reporter who's based in Lubbock. Hi, Jamie, Hi, 101 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,600 eleanor how is in Lubbock these days? 102 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 3: It's actually getting warmer this week, so it's been pretty nice. 103 00:05:24,439 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: Great. We're also joined by doctor Carle Purdham from the 104 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,319 University of Houston, who's the lead investigator on a research 105 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,639 project looking at the Panhandle wildfires and how communities in 106 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,639 Texas are managing wildfire risk. Welcome doctor Purdam. 107 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 4: Thank you. It's great to be here. 108 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: Thank you both for joining us on this really important topic. Jamie, 109 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,160 you covered these fires a year ago. Just tell us 110 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,000 about that experience, like what it was like for you 111 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,920 going up there and seeing that. 112 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it was it was a very hard experience. 113 00:05:57,319 --> 00:06:00,000 It was very sad because you know, I went up 114 00:06:00,079 --> 00:06:03,360 there within I think it was the first day that 115 00:06:03,399 --> 00:06:07,040 the fires had started, and so one of the first 116 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,079 stops that I made was at the dairy queen and fridge, 117 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,759 and that's where a lot of the firefighters were taking 118 00:06:12,759 --> 00:06:15,279 a break, and you could kind of see how exhausted 119 00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:18,399 they looked. A lot of them looked checked out at 120 00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:21,639 that point after what they had been dealing with. And 121 00:06:21,639 --> 00:06:24,279 then even just driving around, you could already see the 122 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,879 effects taking place. There was smoke all over the region. 123 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,519 The ground was black. Unfortunately, like you mentioned, there was 124 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,240 a lot of dead cattle that was just out in 125 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,319 the open that people could just see. And of course, 126 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,279 you know, we saw a lot of a lot of 127 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,279 people coming through to help too. We saw a lot 128 00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:44,439 of trucks going through and carrying bales of hay for 129 00:06:44,519 --> 00:06:48,480 the ranchers that needed it. And you know, I think 130 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:51,399 that what it's probably stuck with me. The most was 131 00:06:51,519 --> 00:06:55,079 just kind of seeing the makeshift shelters that were put 132 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,600 up around all the cities that were affected, where they 133 00:06:59,639 --> 00:07:02,800 just had people from the Panhandle Foal who were either 134 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,759 helping or who were scared and trying to escape what 135 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,040 was going on. So, yeah, it was just it was 136 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,759 very it was hard, you know, just. 137 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: To put in context. I'm I'm looking this up on 138 00:07:14,399 --> 00:07:18,480 my phone as we're talking. The Los Angeles area wildfires. 139 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,439 You know, obviously terrible tragedy, a much denser area. Fifty 140 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:26,759 seven thousand, six hundred and sixty five acres burned in 141 00:07:26,759 --> 00:07:31,240 that fire. The Panhandle fire burned over one million acres, 142 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,600 you know, obviously different locations there, a lot of different properties, 143 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,920 but still in the scale, the scale of the fire 144 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,319 was pretty unbelievable in terms of how widespread it was 145 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,560 across this area of the state. 146 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. 147 00:07:43,959 --> 00:07:47,319 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Also, Jamie, you are just to let people behind 148 00:07:47,319 --> 00:07:49,120 the curtain a little bit, and you cited one of 149 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,560 the number one reporting techniques in the world, which is 150 00:07:51,839 --> 00:07:54,879 go to the dairy queen. You can usually it's usually 151 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:58,079 a good first stop. Jamie, Like a year later, what 152 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,480 do we know about how these fires started? Sort of 153 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,519 how they unfolded and looking back, like, you know, what's 154 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,199 the sort of total count on the impact for ranchers 155 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:07,519 and residents of that area. 156 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,319 Speaker 3: So you know that I should really say that week, 157 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,040 while everything was starting and really spreading around the region, 158 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,600 there were five fires that were just going through that 159 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,519 were scattered, and I would say within that first twenty 160 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:26,360 four hours had already burned a lot of the acres 161 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,519 that we were talking about. The House committee that investigated 162 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,559 the fires last year, they found that the fires were 163 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,960 actually started by failed power lines. You know, in the 164 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,639 case of the Smokehouse Creek fire, which, like you said before, 165 00:08:40,759 --> 00:08:44,039 it became the biggest fire in state history, the ignition 166 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,639 was from a decayed power line that had the decayed 167 00:08:47,639 --> 00:08:50,840 power poll that broke and fell into dry grass. So 168 00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:54,000 it was just, you know, it was it was a 169 00:08:54,279 --> 00:08:57,759 ignition that was just waiting to happen, essentially, And we 170 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,759 also know that they the fire spread and incredibly fast 171 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:05,159 that day because of the high winds, So we just 172 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,039 kind of know how that played out. But as far 173 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,960 as the impact goes, I think the financial loss has 174 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:14,440 been one of the hardest aspects for the residents in 175 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:18,240 the Panhandle to come back from ranchers in particular, have 176 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,000 had to worry about, you know, equipment, like getting their 177 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,360 fences and gates fixed just so they can keep their 178 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,080 cattle in their pastures. And that's a lot, even if 179 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,759 you don't lose a majority of your livestock. And I think, 180 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,480 you know, aside from financial I think the biggest toll 181 00:09:34,519 --> 00:09:37,159 would be the mental impact that this has had for 182 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,039 people up there. I was visiting Canadian a few weeks ago, 183 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,679 and there are people there who get scared whenever they 184 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,639 hear the emergency sirens go off. You know, It's a 185 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,240 year later and they're still very anxious about it. 186 00:09:51,759 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean that sort of we talk about 187 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,120 sort of like climate change and the almost like PTSD 188 00:09:58,159 --> 00:10:01,279 effects of living through a natural disaster, whether it's you know, 189 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,159 a fire, a flood, anything like that. Doctor Purdam, your 190 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,720 work looks a little bit sort of what happens after 191 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,840 the fire recedes and the recovery begins. Tell us a 192 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,159 little bit about the research you're doing in the Panhandle 193 00:10:14,279 --> 00:10:17,159 and the challenges these communities are going to face as 194 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:17,799 they rebuild. 195 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,639 Speaker 3: Sure, so I'm involved in two projects. 196 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 4: What I'm leading is looking at the Panhandle and a 197 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,879 lot of the challenges that face emergency management, but also 198 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,039 a lot of the healthcare infrastructure and just being in 199 00:10:33,039 --> 00:10:37,840 a rural area, how they how the disaster impacted their 200 00:10:38,799 --> 00:10:42,000 decision making. You know, we invest a lot in plans 201 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,440 and you know, putting together you know, scenarios of what 202 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,559 would you do if a wildfire happened, and this was 203 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,799 you know, wildfires are very different from say a hazard 204 00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:57,320 like a hurricane, because it's very difficult to predict, it's 205 00:10:57,399 --> 00:11:00,360 very difficult to keep track of where the impact is growing. 206 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,120 The situation just changes so quickly. So looking at you know, 207 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:10,759 this disaster and how how emergency management, how local communities 208 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:14,399 and leaders, how they responded, and what you know, how 209 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,480 the unique, how the uniqueness of the massive scale of 210 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:23,080 the wildfire, how that impacted their decision making, what would 211 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,080 they take into the next wildfire? And then you know, 212 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,399 just broadly, Uh, I'm part of another project, uh working 213 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,639 with folks at Texas A and M, the Hazard Reduction 214 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,559 Recovery Center, the USA Center for Oral Preparedness, and we're 215 00:11:37,639 --> 00:11:41,600 broadly looking at Texas and other goal states on you know, 216 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:47,799 how are communities responding to increasing wildfire risk, especially in 217 00:11:47,919 --> 00:11:50,039 rural areas, and so we see a lot of the 218 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,840 same you know, challenges, and that folks are dealing with 219 00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:58,000 increasing risk and increasing vulnerability. We know, the folks in 220 00:11:58,039 --> 00:12:01,840 the Panhandle know that this won't be the last wildfire 221 00:12:02,039 --> 00:12:06,519 in that area, and knowing that you are recovering and 222 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:11,320 you're trying to you know, rebuild, and but also having 223 00:12:11,399 --> 00:12:14,840 to think, you know what, you know, how are we rebuilding? 224 00:12:14,879 --> 00:12:18,840 How are we you know, reviewing our plans and reviewing 225 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:23,799 our practices to be prepared for what is coming next. 226 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,360 So they're on that front line of knowing that the 227 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,480 risk is there and trying to you know, recover, but 228 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,720 also be prepared for, you know, the next wildfire disaster. 229 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: Doctor Brintham. You know, I feel like when we talk 230 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,679 about what led to an incident like this, it's often 231 00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:45,879 the same thing, right, you know, you had maybe a 232 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:49,159 wet period, you know, in the time leading up to it, 233 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:52,519 leading to lots of growth, then a dry period that 234 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,200 follows that, which leads to a lot of sort of 235 00:12:55,519 --> 00:12:57,559 you know, for lack of a better term, sort of 236 00:12:57,639 --> 00:13:00,360 kindling for a fire. Then you get a very dry 237 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:04,399 period with high winds and some kind of inciting incident, 238 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,200 right like a power line going down, you know, someone 239 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,480 throwing a cigarette out the window or anything like that. 240 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,720 I mean, a lot of those things are very hard 241 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:15,360 to control. I'm curious as you look back at this fire, 242 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,080 whether this is an incident of just conditions were right 243 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:22,399 for this and there's not much you could do, or 244 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:25,720 were there things that went wrong either in the preparation 245 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,200 or the response to the fire that made this worse 246 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,080 than it might have otherwise could have been. 247 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,759 Speaker 4: Well, I think you know, when we talk about disasters, 248 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,840 most disaster scholars we don't even really refer to them 249 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,200 as natural. We refer to them as disasters because the 250 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:47,000 term natural disaster implies that there's nothing you could do 251 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,960 about it, and that there's something that's coming from the outside. 252 00:13:50,039 --> 00:13:53,320 And that's how we've responded to disasters before. But we 253 00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:55,039 know with risk, there are a lot of things we 254 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,120 can do to mitigate risk. And you know, I know 255 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,120 that the the areas that we are seeing that are 256 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:08,039 impacted in especially rural communities, are you know, on the 257 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,759 front lines. They are leading response efforts, and they're from 258 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:15,240 our research and from a lot of that involves going 259 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:21,399 into communities in the Panhandle across Texas Louisiana. We know 260 00:14:21,559 --> 00:14:25,720 that especially local fire departments, they're on the front lines 261 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,080 of responding to these you know kinds of crisis and 262 00:14:29,159 --> 00:14:30,919 not just in terms of you know, we think of 263 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,320 firefighters as when the fire is there, that they're going 264 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:38,559 out and responding to them. But with you know, risk 265 00:14:38,679 --> 00:14:42,279 and the increasing risk is in so many of these communities, 266 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,600 they know that it's there, they're seeing it, and they 267 00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:48,360 are working to you know, they have a new you know, 268 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,159 you know task that's been put on them. Another another 269 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,919 burden in addition to just responding to risk, but in 270 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:59,440 communicating and trying to advocate to individuals in the communities 271 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:05,120 to local governments that where the risk is. In communities 272 00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:08,399 across Texas, you know, there's a lot of different challenges, 273 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,519 especially with you have a lot of people moving in 274 00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:15,080 from out of state or from other communities into more 275 00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:20,720 rural areas and there's increasing development in the wild and 276 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:25,679 urban interface and that has created a lot of challenges 277 00:15:25,879 --> 00:15:29,519 especially in how just changes in land management. So in 278 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:35,399 conversations with and with leaders and fire departments and emergency management, 279 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,919 local government, you know, that's causing a lot of risk 280 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:43,000 to be developed. So it's people who you know, they 281 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,759 may come in and be you know, a part of 282 00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:49,159 the community that maybe was before unmanaged wild land and 283 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,559 now it's a development with say like ten acre lots 284 00:15:52,559 --> 00:15:54,840 in them, and each lot now has a fence line, 285 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,679 and where before maybe that the land and the fuel there, 286 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,200 the assets and things we're being managed and now it's 287 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,679 all that kind of fuel is building up, and maybe 288 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,360 that person you know in that community don't realize that 289 00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:11,840 what they're doing is you know, creating more risk that's 290 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,720 going to be difficult for the fire department to manage, 291 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,840 and then also creating a lot more challenges in terms 292 00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:22,919 of responding to fires, So creating more fence lines and 293 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,879 more private property that folks are going to have to navigate. 294 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:31,399 So there's a lot of different intersecting challenges and I 295 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,200 can say from the most important thing that we've learned 296 00:16:35,279 --> 00:16:38,879 is really listening more to the folks who are on 297 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,200 the front lines, who aren't just yes, they're responding to 298 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,840 the disaster, but they're seeing the risk build up every 299 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,919 day and are are working to try to communicate that. 300 00:16:49,039 --> 00:16:53,639 But they need to be empowered. And that's what part 301 00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:56,279 of our project is is taking down the lessons that 302 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,639 they've learned, and trying to communicate them so that they 303 00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:02,480 can be you know, empowered and listen to with with 304 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:05,319 the increasing risks they're seeing in their communities. 305 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, certainly that development I think we're 306 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,599 seeing everywhere. We're gonna talk a little bit about, you know, 307 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,920 how this is not just a Panhandle issue, but Jamie 308 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:18,559 tell us a little bit. I mean, I know, after 309 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,240 the wildfires, there was a lot of talk about, you know, 310 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:24,680 the legislature is going to come back, there's things we 311 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,519 need them to do to help us both you know, 312 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,599 respond better in the future, but also sort of rebuild 313 00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:35,400 these communities. What do people in the Panhandle want this 314 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,039 session and what sort of are we seeing momentum on. 315 00:17:39,599 --> 00:17:43,839 Speaker 3: Well, really, I think people in the Panhandle just want 316 00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:47,440 this to be addressed in some way, you know. In particular, 317 00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:50,799 I was hearing that they want, you know, if there 318 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,519 was some way like to do kind of like a 319 00:17:52,599 --> 00:17:56,960 fire task force. There's one proposal in the legislature right 320 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,279 now where it would be creating a database firefighting equipment 321 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,960 that's readily available in the state, and they love that proposal. 322 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,599 So really, you know, we're talking about an area that 323 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,160 has historically felt ignored by Austin and by the lawmakers there, 324 00:18:14,799 --> 00:18:17,720 and I think that that's what they're aiming for. They 325 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,880 want to see this get addressed on a much bigger 326 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:24,400 level than how they typically address it at home. But 327 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,720 then on top of that, I do think that there's momentum. 328 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:31,359 I think that you know, there is probably people who 329 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,119 may have forgotten about what happened, or you know, who 330 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,359 think things are fine now. But if that's the case, 331 00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:42,640 you know, there are lawmakers who represent the Panhandle that 332 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,319 are not letting that happen. You know. Like I said earlier, 333 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,720 it's it's Senator Kevin Sparks who filed the bill about 334 00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:56,039 creating the firefighting Equipment Database. He and Representative King also 335 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,880 filed joint bills that would fund rural Volunteer fire Department. 336 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,359 But I think the one that people in the Panhandle 337 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,880 are most excited about is another bill that was filed 338 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,799 by King, who you know, of course, he was born 339 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:13,000 and raised in Canadian so he has a really good 340 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,400 idea of what they're dealing with and what they need. 341 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,880 And his bill would essentially give that authority to address 342 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,839 faulty electrical lines to both the public utility Commission and 343 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,799 the Railroad Commission. And so, for those who may not remember, 344 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,480 this was a big point of contention during the investigative 345 00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:34,839 hearings last year because neither authority felt that it was 346 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,000 their jurisdiction and it was being called, you know, essentially 347 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,160 a no man's land, and so that made it very 348 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,079 difficult to determine which agencies should be overseeing that maintenance. 349 00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:48,599 And that is probably, I would say, the most pressing concern, 350 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,039 especially for ranchers out there, who you know, aside from 351 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,440 large wildfires just about every year, they also deal with 352 00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:59,279 smaller fires that still affect them on a daily basis. 353 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,799 Speaker 1: Matthew, a thing we've talked about seemingly endlessly in the 354 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:07,079 early episodes of this podcast, the Speaker's Race, it comes 355 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,799 full circle. We have, you know, a speaker from from 356 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,200 the Panhandle representing do we consider lub Oh my god, 357 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,519 am I going to get chased out of town? Write 358 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,720 a story that was like, this is the first Panhandle speaker, 359 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:24,720 Oh God. 360 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,759 Speaker 3: Close to the Panhandle. So technically technically Lubbock is the Panhandle. 361 00:20:31,039 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: Kelly On. 362 00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:35,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you ask anybody in Lubbock, they will not 363 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,200 say we're the Panhandle. We are the South Plains or 364 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:39,920 we're West Texas. 365 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,599 Speaker 1: Okay, but I believe what I did here was technically 366 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:44,680 I am correct. 367 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 2: I would like to have. 368 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:52,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, I played by the rules. You know, We've 369 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:53,960 got a lot more to talk about. I do want 370 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,519 to take a quick break, and I encourage people stick 371 00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:57,920 around because we at the end of this episode, we'll 372 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,680 have an update on one of the feel good stories 373 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,480 coming out of the wildfires. We got a little update 374 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,000 to offer you guys on that story, So do stick around. 375 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,599 Let's take a quick break and thank our sponsors, the 376 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,720 Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Deliver Texas sized insight at your 377 00:21:14,759 --> 00:21:18,480 next event. With the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Our reporters 378 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:20,920 and editors are ready to bring your event to life 379 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,759 with context and analysis. Only they can deliver. Book us 380 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:27,799 at Texastribune dot org slash speakers. 381 00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:31,039 Speaker 2: I kind of interrupted you. Was there actually a question 382 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,000 you were wanting to ask there about the speaker? 383 00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:37,039 Speaker 1: We actually did get distracted? Is that kind of like, well, no, 384 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,960 I don't it doesn't apply anymore. 385 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:39,519 Speaker 2: I ruined it. 386 00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Well no, Also, the question was like, do you 387 00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:43,519 think the fact that we have a speaker who is 388 00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:48,640 from near the Panhandle might put more attention on Panhandle issues, 389 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,799 a region that, as Jamie said, often feels sort of ignored. 390 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 2: I mean, I think, Jamie, I'm interested in hearing your 391 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,440 thoughts on this, but I think it's I think the 392 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,480 people up there found that very meaningful. I mean, you know, 393 00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:06,960 Caroline Fairly, who's from Amarillo, which is the Panhandle, you know, 394 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,680 really actually cited that as one of the reasons she 395 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,039 was she was getting on Burrow's side, and I think 396 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,799 there were a lot of people kind of in that 397 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,480 region feeling like someone who understands this very unique part 398 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:23,200 of the state is meaningful for questions like this, not 399 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:26,920 just around you know, wildfire mitigation or response, but also 400 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,839 healthcare and education and a lot of the other things 401 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:33,160 that are you know, of course coming up this legislative 402 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:33,839 session as well. 403 00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:37,279 Speaker 1: It's good that Speaker Burrows can understand the issues of 404 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,240 the Panhandled despite not being from the Panhandle or representing it. 405 00:22:42,079 --> 00:22:48,400 We admire with that about him. Okay, doctor Purdam to actually, uh, 406 00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,559 this is a nice segue because wildfires are not a 407 00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:54,799 problem exclusive to the Panhandle, though you know, obviously it's 408 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,079 an issue that ranchers in the Panhandle deal with a lot. 409 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,960 You know, we as Matthew said, we saw these wildfires 410 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,480 in Los Angeles, we see wildfires in cities as well. 411 00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:09,920 What like wildfire threats do other states parts of the 412 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,599 state face. Is this a threat for people in cities 413 00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:16,480 as if not as much in the Panhandle, you know 414 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:17,319 to some extent. 415 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 4: Well, I would say that wildfire risk, you know, it's 416 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,960 increasing everywhere. They might have a low risk, but whatever 417 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,680 that lower risk is is increasing. Many communities think, you know, 418 00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:33,519 this couldn't possibly happen here. I think that, you know, 419 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,839 many individuals think that with many different types of disasters, 420 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:39,599 and they might not actually know what their risk is. 421 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,039 And you know, there are you know, other states or 422 00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:49,440 places where wildfires are. They are you know, more understood 423 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:54,519 to be part of the landscape. And in Texas that's 424 00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:58,440 definitely you know, accepted and understood in many places. But 425 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,240 there are rising risks and and folks just may not 426 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,440 know what what their risk is or how that risk 427 00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:09,480 is increasing. So communities are I know in Texas there 428 00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:15,599 have been some really strong efforts to support communities to 429 00:24:15,839 --> 00:24:21,480 become it's called fire wise communities, uh too. For I 430 00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:26,319 know there's a significant investment and trying to have communities 431 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:33,000 and counties developed plans their wildfire wildfire I can't remember 432 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,640 the exact name of the plan, but developed wildfire specific 433 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,839 plans and so evaluating what is the wildfire risk in 434 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,640 the community and what would be you know, ways to 435 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:47,240 mitigate that risk, and you know, identifying areas of vulnerability. 436 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,079 So there's you know, growing understanding and that you know, 437 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,960 those are things that need to be addressed. The challenge 438 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,680 again is, you know, a lot of these planning efforts, Uh, 439 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,440 they cost time, they cost honey, they require to be 440 00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:07,400 really effective engagement with the public, and you know that's 441 00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:11,759 you know, not a simple task. So uh, you know, 442 00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:14,680 the Texas A and M for Services a lot of 443 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,119 support for those efforts. But I think it's it's a growing, 444 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,000 a growing issue. That's something we've talked with part of 445 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,559 our project looking at Gulf States is people, you know, 446 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,640 accept and understand that hurricanes are flooding are part of 447 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,240 the risk landscape, but they may not understand, you know, 448 00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:38,319 that wildfires are part of that that landscape. And you know, 449 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,839 we've talked about the massive scale of the Panhandle wildfire. 450 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,720 But a fire doesn't need to be you know, on 451 00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:51,039 that massive scale to really cause damage. You know, a 452 00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:54,680 fire of say one hundred two hundred acres wherever it 453 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,799 is can still destroy many homes structures in communities. So 454 00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:03,599 you know, folks may think that would never happen here, 455 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:07,119 but you know that's always something that you know could 456 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,400 be a possibility. There's it's it's understanding what their risk 457 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,079 is and what they can do to mitigate it. And 458 00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:16,119 that's where I would say again, a thing that we're 459 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,720 what we're learning from working with emergency managers, fire departments, folks, 460 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:26,160 even you know, in local government, is that there is 461 00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:32,079 a there's a you know, gap between what they know 462 00:26:32,279 --> 00:26:35,440 and see and understand as the risk environment and what 463 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:41,720 the community understands and sees. And you know, having that 464 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,359 knowledge is important for making plans for being prepared. That's 465 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,559 one of the difficult things about wildfires is there's not 466 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,559 that kind of lead up time to say evacuate that 467 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,000 you get with a storm that is well monitored, and 468 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,119 the situation just becomes it changes so much more quickly. 469 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,599 It's a it's a in many ways, it's just a 470 00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:09,720 more difficult kind of disaster to prepare for. So yeah, 471 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,680 there's there's definitely a gap in what the public knows 472 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:15,720 or thinks about, you know, what their risk is. And 473 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:19,599 so you know, we're working to try to, you know, 474 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:24,440 identify ways that communities can improve in communicating that and 475 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,960 communicating that risk and then identifying you know, how they 476 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,839 can you know, reduce the risk in our communities as well. 477 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was you know, there's some reporting in the 478 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,599 aftermath of the LA fires about how Austin at least 479 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,720 one group ranked Austin as the sort of highest you know, 480 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,559 mid to large sized city in the country in terms 481 00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:50,640 of that that's outside of southern California in terms of 482 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,519 wildfire risk, right, And you know, a lot of us 483 00:27:54,039 --> 00:27:56,960 remember the fires in Bass Drop from you know, more 484 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,680 than ten years ago, which we're very scary and kind 485 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,559 of cree their way, and you know, if you drive 486 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,079 through Bastrop today, it's still you still see the effects 487 00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:06,799 and impact of that. 488 00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: And certainly, like as you were saying, doctor Purdam, a 489 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,440 lot more development, a lot more you know, like it's 490 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,440 these are areas that have explored are they're exploding every year, 491 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,880 So potentially have you know, grown a lot since they 492 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,240 updated their wildfire plan or at least since residents sort 493 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:22,839 of consider their wildfire risk. 494 00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 495 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: I think that's a good way to you know, you know, 496 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,839 talk about this is like this is obviously there's people, 497 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,559 as you said, doctor Purham, for whom this is sort 498 00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:34,720 of a way of life and they are prepared for 499 00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:37,160 this and thinking about this a lot. And then there's 500 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,480 people who, like in Los Angeles, I think we're very 501 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,079 caught off guard. 502 00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 2: I'm curious, doctor Purdham, what you think about the home 503 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,000 insurance question about this. You know, after the fires in 504 00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:50,960 southern California, you know, there was all this conversation about 505 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,839 insurers that had pulled out or what we're pulling out 506 00:28:53,839 --> 00:28:57,519 of California. You know, Texas, as you mentioned, has a 507 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:04,079 lot of different threats, whether it's you know, tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, fires, 508 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,839 you know, earthquakes maybe less so we have them, but 509 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,359 they're not so big. But let's not roll it out. Yeah, 510 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,240 I mean, how much do we need to be worried? 511 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,400 How much do homeowners in this state need to be 512 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,880 worried about the insurability of their properties? And you know, 513 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,200 from a long term basis down here is all these 514 00:29:24,279 --> 00:29:28,640 kind of risks seem to grow or at least we 515 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,240 grow more aware of them. 516 00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:33,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean I would definitely be concerned, just 517 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,240 because as we're saying with you know, the same kind 518 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,680 of trend with hurricanes and flooding in places along the 519 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:46,640 Gulf coast. It's not my particular area of expertise, but 520 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,640 I would say it's definitely something that we need to 521 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,200 be watching and being prepared for as risk continues to grow. 522 00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:57,599 I mean, we know that, like we said, there are 523 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:03,160 some communities that are prepared for this, but they're prepared 524 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,000 for maybe even a previous climate and a previous level 525 00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:13,119 of risk, and that risk is increasing. So even our 526 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,920 current you know, communities that have plans that are you know, 527 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:24,880 maybe have been adequate in the past, are increasingly less 528 00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:29,960 adequate there they are, you know, have to be updated 529 00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:36,359 for future scenarios that we have perhaps even yet to imagine, 530 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,880 you know, that kind of risk. So I would absolutely 531 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:46,359 be concerned as we you know, as we continue in 532 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,000 the future down this line of increasing risk, especially from climate. 533 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what. 534 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say, I'd definitely be concerned in watching, 535 00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,839 especially watching you know what's happening with other hats. It 536 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:02,720 can absolutely happen here. 537 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly, I mean, I feel like between, like you know, 538 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:09,920 we've had so many like once in a lifetime things happen, 539 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:12,839 or worst or you know, worst case scenario things happened 540 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,880 in Texas and the country and the world in recent years. 541 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,200 So certainly, Jamie, I know when you were reporting at 542 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,039 the time, you know, a year ago, there was a 543 00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:24,839 lot of talk from ranchers about, you know, can we 544 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,359 keep going, can we rebuild? Do we have a future 545 00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:30,119 in ranching? Do we have a future in this area 546 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:35,000 You've been up in Canadian recently, I mean, what sort 547 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,559 of what are you hearing now? Are people sticking it out? 548 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480 Did we see an exodus of ranchers and farmers? 549 00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: Well, there are a lot of ranchers who are trying 550 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,759 to get back to where they were before. But unfortunately 551 00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:50,400 it is a mix like what you were saying. You know, 552 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,880 for example, Craig Cowden, he's a rancher up there that 553 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,119 I've talked with a lot since the fires happened, and 554 00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:02,160 he didn't lose any cattle in the right so he 555 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,160 doesn't know how, but he didn't, but his entire ranch 556 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,799 did burn out. So even though his cattle survived, he 557 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,720 still had to sell sixty percent of his livestock because 558 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,839 the ground wasn't healthy enough for his actual full herd. 559 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,200 So you know, there's a lot of those kind of 560 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,680 decisions having to be made. And I think, you know, 561 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,799 on the other hand, like there are ranchers out there 562 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,079 who lost both their ranch and their livestock and decided 563 00:32:33,079 --> 00:32:35,039 that it was time to call it quits. And you 564 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:37,079 know a lot of them, or at least I should 565 00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:40,640 say one in particular that I spoke with he was 566 00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:45,079 already at that age towards retirement. He was already considering it, 567 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,359 and the fire just kind of helped him make that 568 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:53,559 decision sooner. But that's that's just unfortunately, the reality of 569 00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:56,039 what they're they're dealing with right now is just making 570 00:32:56,079 --> 00:32:57,079 those hard decisions. 571 00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: And this is not like the only challenge that ranchers 572 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,319 and farmers in Texas are facing. I mean, we've got, 573 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,680 you know, have had intermittent drought over the last of 574 00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:09,359 recent years. Now we're talking a lot more about Avian 575 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,839 flu other threats, you know, just like the uh sort 576 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,200 of a lot of farmers are reaching retirement age and 577 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,559 not deciding not to you know, don't have anyone to 578 00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:22,960 inherit their their work. What is the current sort of 579 00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:27,079 state of the state for agriculture. Was the impact for 580 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,079 consumers too, as that sort of begins to face increasing threats. 581 00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, just thinking about consumers in general, 582 00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:39,400 we have to think about basic supply and demand, right. 583 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,200 I mean, one of the biggest poultry farms in Texas 584 00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:45,000 last year had to kill more than a million infected 585 00:33:45,039 --> 00:33:48,279 chickens that had the bird flu. And you know, cattle 586 00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:51,559 country hasn't been the same since the fires happened. And 587 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:57,720 so while we have our poultry producers and our ranchers 588 00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:01,599 kind of in that influx, you know, that leaves us 589 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,440 the consumers kind of just waiting to see what happens. 590 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,599 And we have seen what has happened over the last 591 00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:09,760 few weeks with rising egg prices. But then you know, 592 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,840 like you mentioned, you throw drought in there with all 593 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,320 the other business ending type of factors, and it really 594 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,840 just adds up. It's been a very rough couple of 595 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,440 years for farmers in Texas. 596 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,119 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, Well, I've got an update on a story. 597 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,199 So we are very excited to bring this to you. 598 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,440 The Texas Tribune so rarely writes stories with a little 599 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,400 bit of hope in them. Increasingly we write sort of 600 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,280 dismal stories about the horrors of our world. But in 601 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,480 this case, right after the fires, my colleague Stephen Simpson 602 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,920 was up in the Panhandle covering the hearings and he 603 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,039 wrote a story about a Panhandle rancher named Dale Jenkins 604 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,079 who emerged from the fires with one unharmed calf named Bobo. 605 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,360 This was the story of Bobo, and people loved this story. 606 00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:05,039 We got a ton of feedback on it. We should say, 607 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,320 Dale Jenkins also his adult you know heard survived, so 608 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,599 this was just one calf that was unharmed. So we 609 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:16,639 asked Stephen to follow up with Dale ahead of this 610 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,920 week's episode to get a Bobo update. And this is 611 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,719 what Dale had to say about Bobo quote. I actually 612 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,559 had Bobo listed in my production sale for this March 613 00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:31,400 twenty second, but yesterday he failed a fertility test and 614 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,840 I told my wife he would have to go to slaughter. 615 00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:37,559 She's insisting that I not do that and instead use 616 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,400 him as a sterile bull often called a gomer bull 617 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:46,719 for my AI parentheses artificial insemination not intelligence program to 618 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,760 help me identify females in heat. So Bobo lives, no baby. 619 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:57,280 Bobo's but Bobo was saved from slaughter by Dale Jenkins's wife. 620 00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 2: You know, I think I feel like if he if 621 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,519 he had promoted him as an Ai cow, he sucker. 622 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,760 You know, that's really buzzy. 623 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 1: Everyone in Austin was like, wait, an Ai, we're saving 624 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,159 him for Ai. I'll give you a million exactly. But no, 625 00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:16,960 we're thrilled to tell everyone that, you know, Bobo almost 626 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,239 died twice, survived the fires, survived the slaughterhouse, and it's 627 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,679 going to be living out his days identifying females in heat. 628 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,880 So that's our update on Bobo. Definitely, do you have 629 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,320 any other Matthew. We have a forthcoming story this week 630 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,119 from Jamie on you know, sort of the legislative priorities 631 00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:42,320 around wildfires. But I just want to thank Jamie for 632 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960 joining us and for your coverage, you know, during a 633 00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:48,840 very difficult time last year. And doctor Purdham for your 634 00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:51,719 for joining us and for your ongoing work in the 635 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,800 Panhandle on the wildfires. Thank you both for joining us. 636 00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,599 That's it for today. You can find all episodes of 637 00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:01,760 the Trip cast on YouTube or wherever you find your podcasts. 638 00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:04,840 Be sure to like, subscribe, and share the podcast on 639 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,079 all of your platforms. If you'd like to get in 640 00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:09,360 touch with the team, you can reach us at tripcast 641 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,760 at Texastribune dot org. We want to thank our sponsor, 642 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,760 the Texas Tribune Speakers Bureau. Our producers are Rob Avila, 643 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,400 who has returned from Japan. 644 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,519 Speaker 2: I hope the Japanese musical tour was great. I hope 645 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,679 everyone rocked out to the tripcast. 646 00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:29,079 Speaker 1: Theme absolutely and Chris Swoboda, who was not invited to Japan. 647 00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:31,840 And there's no beef happening in our back room right now. 648 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,119 Speaker 2: And much like we will not forget Bobo, we will 649 00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:36,280 not forget this injustice. 650 00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 1: Absolutely until Chris is taken to Japan, we will not 651 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,480 rest our theme music is composed by Rob the Betrayer. 652 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:43,800 See you next week.