WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:03.759 In today's episode, we look at a cyber fraud case 2 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:07.639 from Mumbai where an employee transferred more than ten crow 3 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:12.279 rupees after receiving messages that appeared to come from his boss. 4 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:17.160 We also turned to Parliament where former Education Minister Thrmindri 5 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:21.679 Pradhan's first appearance after resigning was marked by cheers from 6 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:26.760 bjpmps and protests from the opposition, with repeated disruptions in 7 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.640 the Lok Sabah. But we begin today by talking about Assam, 8 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:35.000 which is facing a massive flood crisis that has displaced 9 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:41.920 thousands of people in the region. Hi Amcha Sharma and 10 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.719 you're listening to three things the Indian Express New show. 11 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:51.399 Over the past. 12 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.799 Week, at least sixty six people have died and lacks 13 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:59.079 have been affected as devastating floods continue to batter Assam. 14 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:04.319 Entire villages, large stretches of agriculture land and major towns 15 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:08.359 such as Sivasagar remain submerged, with water levels in several 16 00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:12.640 areas rising well above chesth height. Many even say the 17 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:16.400 region has not witnessed flooding on this scale in recent memory. 18 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:20.480 Thousands of stranded residents have been rescued by the NDRF, 19 00:01:20.840 --> 00:01:25.200 The Army, the SDRF, Fire and Emergency Services, and local 20 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:29.680 administration teams which have used boats to evacuate people. 21 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:30.480 From flooded areas. 22 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.040 To know more about the crisis and the ongoing rescue 23 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.959 and relief efforts, my Colleagueiharika Nanda speaks with the Indian 24 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.680 expresses Sukrita Barua in the. 25 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:43.879 Segment Sukrita, can you begin by telling us how have 26 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:45.719 things been over the past week? 27 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.280 So right now Assam is reeling in what we can 28 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:54.519 say is the aftermath because of a really devastating wave 29 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:58.439 of floods. I say aftermath because now the flood levels 30 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:02.640 are gradually receding, but as they're receding, the true extent 31 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.920 of the devastation is being revealed. Assam has been reeling 32 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.680 under a severe flood crisis for a week now, which 33 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:13.319 started on last Sunday, which is the nineteenth of July. 34 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:18.800 So with this, particularly three districts of Assam, Sipsagor, Jorhat 35 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:24.639 and Sadio have been inundated like vast stretches of land, villages, 36 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.840 agricultural land, even major towns like Zipsaker. We've been reeling 37 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:33.960 under floodwaters that go beyond chess level and lacks of 38 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:37.520 people have been displaced. As of Saturday night, the Assam 39 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:41.719 State Disaster Management Authority estimated that sixty two people have 40 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:44.680 lost their lives within the span of this week, so 41 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:48.439 since the floods began on July nineteenth, and this includes 42 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.400 six children, right. 43 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:53.159 And can you tell us about the destruction caused by 44 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.039 the floods and how have people been evacuated? 45 00:02:56.719 --> 00:03:00.159 So at its worst, the number of people affected I've 46 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:03.520 far exceeded seven lack. But now, like I said, it's 47 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:08.199 receding gradually. So as of Saturday night, the total number 48 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:11.280 of people affected had come down gradually to two point 49 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.479 nine lack. And also, because like I said, so many 50 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.360 people have been displaced, they had to be evacuated. Thousands 51 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:20.840 of people have been evacuated from their homes on boats 52 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:25.960 by the NDIFSDRF and other authorities, and well over one 53 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:27.159 point one five black. 54 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:29.639 People had been shifted to relief camps. 55 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:33.240 But now as the floods are receding, people are gradually 56 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.319 returning to their homes. And as a Saturday night, the 57 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.560 number of people in relief camps have come down to 58 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:43.080 around eighteen nine hundred. One of the most alarming statistics 59 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.159 are actually the loss of animal lives. So a lot 60 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:48.800 of the affected areas are rural areas. People have a 61 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:51.479 lot of live stock. So you know, the counting for 62 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:54.280 that has just begun and it's coming to light. In 63 00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.400 the last two days and as of now, at least 64 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.639 twenty thousand animals have been washed away, including cattle, poultry, 65 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.639 you know, whatever the rural people rear. You know, the 66 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:06.960 figures that we have are already alarming, but authorities say 67 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:09.840 that you know, it's very likely that this toll will 68 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:12.479 continue to rise because you know, so many places have 69 00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:16.000 been inaccessible for so long because of the flood conditions 70 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.839 that we'll only come to know over some more time 71 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:21.800 where the true extent of this damage has been. In fact, 72 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:24.160 two days back, the Chief Minister had addressed a press 73 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:28.199 conference and he said that these two assembly constituencies under 74 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:32.199 the Sibsabagar constituency, which is Zibsagar and Nazira, like thirty 75 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:35.920 percent of the area under Nazira was not accessible, like 76 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:38.680 the government authorities hadn't even been able to reach these 77 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.839 areas to offer relief to the people there. And in Sibsagar, 78 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.319 he said twenty percent because you know, as the floodwaters 79 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:49.240 are receding, they've left behind layers of sediment which are 80 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:50.240 several feet high. 81 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:52.839 So in the aftermath also there are several challenges. 82 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:55.800 So even as the flood is receding, you know, critical 83 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:56.839 challenges lie ahead. 84 00:04:57.480 --> 00:05:01.319 And Skritha, how does this year come pair with floods 85 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:03.879 the state has witnessed in the previous years. 86 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:07.720 So you know, as we know, Assam suffers, I mean, 87 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:11.199 the large populations of Assam suffer every year from the 88 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:14.360 annual flooding of the Brahmaputra, but the flooding this time 89 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.519 is quite unprecedented. One thing in particular, you know, this 90 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:22.079 particular area which is as I've said, sip sagar Jorhattan sradio, 91 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:22.959 they don't. 92 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:24.000 Normally see flooding. 93 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:25.720 And a lot of people have spoken to who live 94 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.000 in this area, government functionaries, people who are reacting to 95 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.319 the you know, the crisis, they say that in their lifetimes, 96 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:34.279 they've never seen this kind of flooding in this area. 97 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:38.720 They haven't seen this level of flooding ever in this area. Now, initially, 98 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:42.360 when you know, this flooding started, the state government in 99 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.839 Assam attributed this to I quote a cloud burst which 100 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.720 they said took place in a Mon district, which is 101 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:52.199 the neighboring hill district in Nagaland. So Sradio is at 102 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:56.040 the foothills of Mon district. So that's what they said. 103 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.480 But you know, when I spoke to IMG authorities in Kohima, 104 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:02.240 they said that it wasn't a cloud burst, because you know, 105 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:05.240 a cloudburst is a technical term which means over one 106 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:08.480 hundred millimeters of rainfall within the space of an hour. 107 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:10.920 But they said that there was heavy rainfall. 108 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.759 You know, on July nineteenth, the day the flooding began, 109 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.519 More District had one thirty seven mm of millimeters of 110 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.240 rainfall within the span of about eight to nine hours, 111 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:22.920 which is extremely heavy and on itself, you know, has 112 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.800 been devastated by these rains. By the way, nine people 113 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.800 lost their lives to multiple landslides that day in Morn 114 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.040 and that water came rushing down into these tributaries. So 115 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.639 these districts, they have these Brahmaputa tributaries which are the 116 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:41.240 co Disang, the Jianji and the Dorika, and these rivers 117 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:44.680 flow into the Brahmaputras. And with the water that came 118 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:49.319 gushing down very quickly, these tributaries overflowed and this water began, 119 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:52.439 you know, flowing out of the tributaries and into the 120 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.439 villages and you know even reaching Sibsagar town, which you know, 121 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.399 the river has never reached that town before. So that's 122 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:01.399 the kind of flooding that took place with heavy rainfall 123 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:02.920 and skrata. 124 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.759 You spoke to a few experts about the situation. What 125 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:09.519 did they have to say about what makes this year 126 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.160 situation so much worse? 127 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.079 So I spoke to different experts and they say that, 128 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:18.439 of course, there was a very heavy, excessive rainfall that 129 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:21.360 took place on that day, but that's not the only factor. 130 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.639 So one expert I spoke to, he's currently studying this 131 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:28.439 wave of floods, a professor Druberjotisaharia. He said that, you know, 132 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:33.639 he examined satellite images from these areas and he observed 133 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:37.600 that and he said, I quote, there is excessive excavation on. 134 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:39.720 The river valley side. So river valley side. 135 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:43.720 Means the slope down which these tributaries flow down to 136 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.079 the plains and sa Radio and Zipsagar and which he 137 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:47.639 said is most likely because of. 138 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:49.680 Mining, open cast mining. 139 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:53.040 And you know, because of this, it's very likely that 140 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:55.279 a lot of mud is carried down by this water, 141 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.040 which compromises which reduces the carrying capacity of the river. 142 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:00.920 Means you know, the he was not able to carry 143 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:04.879 that much water. Another expert I spoke to Professor Noyon Sharma. 144 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:08.439 He said that excessive rainfall is just a small factor 145 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.040 which is compounded by several other man made factors, amongst 146 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.399 the chief of which he named his deforestation. So he 147 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:17.720 said that if there's heavy forestation in an area, when 148 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:21.639 heavy rainfall happens, the soil can quickly absorb the water 149 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.600 and this slows down the movement of the water downstream. Right, 150 00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:29.319 But he's saying that when there's barren land, then when 151 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:33.080 rainfall happens quickly, the water flows down rapidly down the 152 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:36.279 slopes and it carries large amounts of sediment down, which 153 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.159 is in hand with what Professor Saharia had said, and 154 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.120 he cited, you know, Nagaland has had a rapid loss 155 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:45.080 of forest cover in the last decade or so. These 156 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.559 are key contributing factors. And he also said that you know, 157 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:51.840 there are tools which could have a lent to more 158 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:55.200 effective forecasting, which wouldn't have made you know, even if 159 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:57.720 this was going to happen you know, this kind of rainfall, 160 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:01.000 this kind of a catastrophe. He said that the devastation 161 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.039 was not necessarily inevitable if there was more effective forecasting. 162 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.279 At the same time, there's also a dam in Wokha 163 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.639 District in Nagaland because again because of the rainfall, there 164 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:15.120 was excess water there. So they've been releasing water since Thursdays, 165 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:19.639 So that experts say has not helped in the water receding. 166 00:09:19.639 --> 00:09:22.320 In any case, the water is receding now, but yeah, 167 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:23.919 leaving behind a trail of destruction. 168 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:27.399 And how has the state government reacted to the situation. 169 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:29.399 Have they given any statement. 170 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:32.440 Yet as of now, they say that they're focused on 171 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.279 rescue and rehabilitation and yeah, like in the past two week, 172 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:39.720 I think it's been all hands on deck trying to 173 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:42.759 reach the affected people. You know, the government had tried 174 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:45.440 to air drop supplies because a lot of the place 175 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.360 is not not reachable by road, not reachable by foot 176 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.879 because like I said, of the sedimentation that's there, the 177 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:54.039 high levels of water. So they tried air dropping supplies 178 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:56.159 and they say that that was not successful because there's 179 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:57.960 been a lot of videos and images, you know, people 180 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:00.759 receiving packages that are torn broken by because when they drop, 181 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:04.279 the packages get damaged. And along with government efforts of 182 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.759 course at relief rehabilitation, you know, we're seeing widespread civil 183 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:11.840 society reactions, so like lots of people, like people are 184 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.879 raising funds, people are trying to reach out to those affected. 185 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.840 You know, now that the floodwaters are receding, we're seeing 186 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:22.360 huge numbers of people heading towards Civsagar carrying relief aid materials. 187 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.759 So yeah, along with government response, you know, something that 188 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.080 we're seeing at a very large scale is civil society mobilization. 189 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:30.720 Like I said, for a lot of people. 190 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.480 I mean, so many lives have been lost, but now 191 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:35.279 you know, it's also going to take a lot of 192 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:38.600 time for people to rebuild what they've lost. So homes 193 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:42.799 have been damaged, people have lost their livestock. Agricultural land 194 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.519 has been completely submerged, so you know, their crops have 195 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.120 been destroyed. There are a lot of weavers in Assam, 196 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.159 their looms have been destroyed. People have all their appliances 197 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:55.519 are ruined. So there's a long process of rebuilding which 198 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:58.919 lies ahead. So both civil society and government are going 199 00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:01.360 to be participating in this process going ahead. 200 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:08.960 And next we talk about a cyber fraud case from 201 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.200 Mumbai that shows how convincing such scams have become. Now, 202 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:17.159 this particular case involves Giri Shamin, a deputy general manager 203 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:20.559 at a reputed company, who received a WhatsApp message that 204 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:23.320 appeared to be from his boss. The number had his 205 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:27.559 boss's name, his boss's photo, and the instruction seemed straightforward 206 00:11:27.879 --> 00:11:31.519 that he should transfer company funds to a specified bank account. 207 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:37.080 Over the next thirteen days, Amen carried out sixty three transactions, 208 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:42.440 transferring more than ten crow rupees. Please say, this is 209 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:45.679 part of a growing cyber crime pattern known as the 210 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:50.120 boss scam. So to understand how the fraudsters convince a 211 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.679 senior company employee to transfer ten crow rupees and why 212 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.720 are companies still vulnerable, we are joined by the Indian 213 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:01.039 Expresses Muhammad Tawr, who reports on crime for the paper. 214 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:02.200 Mohammed. 215 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:07.120 We are familiar with OTP frauds and digital arrest scams, 216 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.039 but a boss scam appears to be a completely different 217 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:12.320 category of cybercrime. 218 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.480 So could you start by explaining what exactly is it 219 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:17.120 and why are. 220 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:20.840 Cybercrime investigators treating it as a significant new threat. 221 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:22.200 Yeah. 222 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:24.759 See, one thing is that purely in terms of the 223 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.039 amount that is lost in boss scam, the amounts that 224 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:32.200 have been fraudinently transferred are much bigger. So the way 225 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:37.240 this works is rather than you know, targeting an individual here, 226 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.000 you are targeting like these big companies. Like at the 227 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:42.799 end of the day, it's an individual you're duping, but 228 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.320 that individual is responsible for the financial transaction of a 229 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:49.679 big company. And this is a much more elaborate scam 230 00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.519 as compared to other cyber frauds. So, for example, in 231 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.200 this case, the first thing that they do is they 232 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:58.200 have a list of big companies that they want to target. 233 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:01.639 They go to the website of these companies, identify who 234 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.559 is the CEO. Usually on these company websites you have 235 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:07.759 the CEO his photo, the top management's photo. If they 236 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.080 have the name of the guy who's handling finances, it 237 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:12.840 makes their job easier. If not, what they do is 238 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:15.559 they just call up on the company landline and you know, 239 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.120 they will claim to be calling from another company and 240 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.240 saying that you know, they have to transfer some money 241 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.639 to this company and there is some problem with the 242 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:25.480 short code or something and ask to be transferred to 243 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:28.639 the guy who handles the finances or they get the 244 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:29.879 number of the guy. 245 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:31.679 Who handles the finances. 246 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:33.279 And you know, they will say that, you know, I 247 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:36.039 am this this person, and you know, this is my 248 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:39.240 private number, which again is a smart way of going 249 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.720 about it, because a lot of these CEOs and top 250 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:44.840 management officials do have a private number and a number 251 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:47.759 that most employees would have. So they would message saying 252 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.679 that you know, this is the CEO and this is 253 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.519 my private number, don't share it with anybody, and say that, 254 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.080 you know, we need to transfer this much money to 255 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:00.000 this particular bank account, and very smartly, the person will 256 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:01.120 that I'm entering a. 257 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.200 Meeting, so don't call me. 258 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.840 And the top down hierarchy in Indian corporate is such 259 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:08.559 that he would not dare message the boss and ask 260 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.960 him whether he has said such a thing when the 261 00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:14.080 boss has specifically said not to so then in that case, 262 00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.519 the person just goes ahead transfers the money. And you know, 263 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:20.799 usually in most cases of this boss cam and it's 264 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.240 called boss cam because you are using the you know, the. 265 00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:24.679 Identity of a boss. 266 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:26.799 In most of these cases, what happens is there is 267 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.320 one transaction that takes place, usually a big amount. Then 268 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.799 in a few hours, the person approaches, the boss says 269 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:35.360 that okay, I have done what you have instructed, and 270 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:37.159 then the boss says, I have not asked you to 271 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.519 make any such payments, and then the thing unravels. 272 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:41.720 What is really unusual. 273 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.679 In this case that we had reported about in June 274 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:47.799 is that the person kept contact the cyberprogesters, kept pretending 275 00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:51.120 to be the CEO of this major company, major Indian company, 276 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:53.559 and for over a period of thirteen days. 277 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:57.320 Yeah, there were sixty three transactions worth over ten korrupays. 278 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.840 Yeah, so from June three to n fifteen, every day 279 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.039 he would message him saying, okay, today transfer this much? 280 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:05.159 Would it transfer that much? 281 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.879 Over a period of thirteen days, they've almost transferred over 282 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.240 ten crews. The ironic fact is that this person and 283 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:15.519 the VP whose identity was used by the fraudsters were 284 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:17.200 in the same office. But again, this is such a 285 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.840 top down structure that people think, okay, this is general and. 286 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.159 This guy had received messages in the past from the VP. 287 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.039 Apparently, again this happened in two parallel ways. Like what 288 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:29.600 happened is finally this employee reached out to his superiors 289 00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:33.120 to get vouchers approved for the transfers and that's when 290 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.759 this the VP said that I have not asked you know, 291 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.799 I've not contacted you from any private number. And parallelly, 292 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.679 what also happened is that the ten crews that had 293 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.519 been transferred from the company to the other accounts. So 294 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:48.480 usually it is transferred to various bank accounts and after 295 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.279 being moved across several accounts, usually somebody will go to 296 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.799 the bank or an ATM to withdraw the money. So 297 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.919 in this case, there were two people who went to 298 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.960 a bank in Delhi, an IDFC bank branch in Dela 299 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.399 and some eight LAC had been transferred to this account. 300 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.200 And the alert bank employee found two things suspicious. One 301 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.960 that at LAC had just been transferred and these two 302 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.759 people came in to withdraw the entire amount. And secondly, 303 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:14.559 even looking at them, they were dressed a bit shabby 304 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.120 lee and he felt something was a miss. And also 305 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:20.399 Delipulis had carried out awareness activities, so he sends something 306 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:23.320 amiss and he contracted the police. The Deli police reached 307 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.039 there they found that the money had been transferred from 308 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.080 a Mumbai account. 309 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:29.519 They contacted the Mumbai Cyber Police and the. 310 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.159 Cyber guys then contacted the corporate employee and he came 311 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.240 to know that this fraud has taken place, all right, and. 312 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.279 You highlight how police found a malicious ZIP file on 313 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:40.320 the victim's phone. 314 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.279 So what role did that file actually play in the scam? 315 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:45.799 Yeah, see that's again an interesting thing. 316 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:48.480 Where so there are two ways in which they go 317 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.399 about making these changes. What happens is initially, once they 318 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.320 get the mobile number of the person handling the finances, 319 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:57.919 you know, from an unidentified number, they'll send like a 320 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.000 file which will have like a ZIP file hidden and 321 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:02.919 as soon as the person so, they'll make it sound 322 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.920 like RBI has sent something regarding some urgent thing that 323 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.640 has to be complied by the company, which would you know, 324 00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.039 make the person instantly kind of click on it. And 325 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.079 then what happens is the ZIP file, which has a 326 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.480 backdoor entry to the mobile, it is downloaded on the mobile. 327 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.279 And then so in some cases, like in this case, 328 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.200 they still did not get complete access to the phone. 329 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.359 But in some cases what also happens is they get 330 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:28.839 access to the phone, where what they do is that 331 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.759 they delete the number of the boss that the person 332 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.000 has saved and they save their own number as that 333 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.599 of the boss, which then makes it much more lethal 334 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.480 because then you are getting a message from your boss 335 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.200 whose number you've saved, asking for the money to be transferred, 336 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.440 So that also happens. So while in this case also 337 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:46.640 they did find a zip file on his phone, but 338 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.319 maybe the entire process could not go through and hence 339 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:51.599 they had to use another number. But in some cases 340 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:53.480 they just delete the number of your boss and save 341 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:55.759 their own number, So that is how the zip file 342 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.839 big kind of is exploited by them and Muhammed. 343 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:03.039 Most companies not normally have multiple financial checks before any 344 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.279 large payments are processed, so how could these many transactions 345 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.839 happen without anyone else questioning them. 346 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.119 Yeah, so in this company, what they said is that 347 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.519 they do have monthly audits, and in this case, because 348 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.920 it took place between June three and June sixteen. 349 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:21.920 The audit had not come in between. 350 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.519 But even when they're conducting awareness drives, the police does 351 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.880 tell corporate offices that, you know, you need to have 352 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.240 a separate computer on which you are using to kind 353 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:33.880 of carry out transactions, and there has to be a 354 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.720 separate number. So a lot of companies are now waking 355 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.160 up to the threat that using the same systems for 356 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.319 making big payments and general use also has in store. 357 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:48.200 So now people are also compartmentalizing, you know, various transactions 358 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:48.920 and what. 359 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.039 Do you use to carry out these transactions? 360 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.279 Right and interestingly, the money trail itself surprise investigators. 361 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.279 So what did they find? What happened after the money 362 00:18:58.319 --> 00:18:58.839 was siphoned? 363 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:00.000 Yeah? 364 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.160 There again, see that is the thing that cyberflrochesters keep 365 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.359 evolving as per police method. So earlier what used to 366 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.480 happen is that money was transferred across several accounts and 367 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.960 eventually they would go and withdraw it. Then they realized 368 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.559 that just moving money from one account to the other 369 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.680 helps the police also trace it right to the. 370 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:18.480 End, so they try to break the chain. 371 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:20.720 In this case, what the police have found, what a 372 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:23.279 lot of cyberflrochesters have started doing, is that at some 373 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:26.200 point they draw the money, they go and buy gold 374 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:29.000 with it. They will buy the gold, give the money, 375 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.240 then they will motigage the gold with somebody else and 376 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.200 take the money. So what this does is when the 377 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.920 police is tracking, the police will reach the jewelry store, 378 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.319 but the person does not really have details of the 379 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:41.640 person who gave the jewelry, so that is a break 380 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:46.279 in the entire series of accounts, then another account. Once 381 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:48.440 the money comes in, what they'll do is the gold 382 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.559 that they had mortgaged. They will pay money, pay cyber 383 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:55.519 fraud money, get the gold mortigaged somewhere else. So basically 384 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:59.039 they are breaking the cycle of money being transferred from 385 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.359 one account to the other by buying gold mortgaging aid 386 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.200 so that the police cannot eventually find the complete trail 387 00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:08.880 right from which account of money was transferred to where 388 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.599 it ends up. So that is again a new thing 389 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.000 that the police have found. 390 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.440 And so Mohammed, would it be right to assume that 391 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:20.519 this is a sign cyber crime is becoming organized crime. 392 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:22.920 Yeah. So see this has been the case. 393 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.720 Like if you remember, like a decade back, cyber fraud 394 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.200 was so unevolved, Like you know, you just get a 395 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:30.960 male saying that I'm a king of Nigeria, I need 396 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.920 your money and things like that, which most of us 397 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.359 would realize is a fraud. But over a period of time, 398 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.400 they keep evolving and they use social scenarios as well. 399 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:43.519 For example, in between when there was the gas crisis, 400 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.640 they would you know, send MGL receipts to people saying 401 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:48.200