WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:03.359 We want to make this as open and permissionless and 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:08.759 democratic as possible. Also, the lock up is effectively as 3 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:12.240 long as you want, and you could say I'm going 4 00:00:12.320 --> 00:00:16.120 to lock this set of XRP for some indefinite amount 5 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:20.280 of time. You can claim the x orp back at 6 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:20.879 any time. 7 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:28.320 This content is brought to you by bitco, which is 8 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.640 one of the top crypto custodians in the crypto industry. 9 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.280 Bitco works with many big companies and brands such as 10 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:40.399 Pantera Capital, Bitstamp, and bitcoin Ira. Nike also selected Bitgo 11 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.520 to power its wallets for its NFTs, and bitco has 12 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:48.200 many great services such as hot wallets, custodial wallets, self 13 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:53.159 managed cold wallets, and NFT wallets. Many institutions trust bitgo 14 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:57.359 with its top level security and incredible services such as 15 00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:00.159 being able to deploy your capital while it's in custody, 16 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.239 which includes lending, borrowing, trading, steaking, DeFi access and more. 17 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.000 If you'd like to learn more about bitco, please visit 18 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:10.359 bitgo dot com link in a description. Welcome into the 19 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:13.000 Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and my 20 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:15.640 guest today is Warren Anderson, who is the co founder 21 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:17.280 of Execor Warren. 22 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.000 Great to have you on, always going to be on. 23 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:21.120 Tony Warren. 24 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:25.000 We spoke I think maybe three months ago, and you know, 25 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:27.640 we did a deep dive into Execor and all the 26 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:30.719 great things you guys are doing. Yesterday it was announced 27 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.359 that you're enabling xrpiece steaking, which is really big and 28 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:36.319 a lot of people want to learn about this. And 29 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:39.840 of course you worked at Ripple back in the day, 30 00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:42.879 which is pretty cool. But for those who may not know, 31 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.000 give give us a quick overview of excor. 32 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.799 Yeah sure, and yeah, I remember when you're asking, you know, 33 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.719 if there's any important announcements will be coming out that 34 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.239 maybe tailored to your audience to to ping you. So 35 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:03.280 I did. So we're excited to obviously thrilled to support 36 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:10.159 XRP as a it's the actual the first time that 37 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:16.240 XRP will have staking yield, which is really cool. Exocre 38 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:23.199 was architected as a layer one blockchain and it effectively sits, 39 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:25.800 you could say, like on top of or next to 40 00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:31.719 other layer ones and Exocre right into the layer ones 41 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:37.479 to lock, unlock, and slash, and Exocre kind of serves 42 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:43.400 as like the accounting system for calculating the all the rewards, 43 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:48.240 the distribution, the slashing conditions, and that has all implemented 44 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.520 in the extra core Layer one, so it's effectively protocolized. 45 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:53.840 So you can think of it almost like like an 46 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.479 external staking or restaking service. Now, we kind of got 47 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:03.159 started early twenty twenty three, spent a lot of time 48 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.840 on the architecture we wanted. You know, obviously I worked 49 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:11.039 on XORP ledgers Layer one. My co founder, r J. Lawn, 50 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.560 was the former CTO and co founder of Harmony, and 51 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:17.719 then my third co founder is a luc out of 52 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.599 popas professor UC Berkeley in cryptography and security. So we 53 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:24.680 really wanted to architect this thing to be good stewards 54 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:28.159 of other layer one networks because we built them ourselves. 55 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:34.479 So the XRP or any asset it stays on the 56 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:39.680 XRP ledger. Users can stake it as if it's like 57 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:44.840 a native feature of the XRP ledger, and we make 58 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:49.520 sure there's no there's no bridging onto XOCRE, there's no minting, 59 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.879 there's no rapping, so it's not wrapped XRP. This is 60 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:59.240 native XRP, which is really cool, and we don't have 61 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.319 to actually make any changes on the extcore protocol itself. 62 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:07.360 So we're you know, we've announced we're supporting BTC, we're 63 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:12.199 all supporting ETH, we're supporting SOUL. So naturally XRP was 64 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.240 like the next like, great, you know token to to 65 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:18.720 support if you kind of go down the list. So 66 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:20.879 but yeah, I'll pause there. 67 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:26.240 So I'm gonna ask newbie questions, right, XRP, Bitcoin and 68 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:29.000 so forth are not proof of steak block chains obviously, 69 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:33.040 how is how does the steaking component work? Where where 70 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:35.160 does the yield come from? 71 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.839 Sure, so, so if you're familiar with so like this. 72 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.519 A lot of this started with with Eigenlayer, who is 73 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:49.120 the kind of the pioneer of restaking starting to be 74 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:52.439 able to restake eth, which obviously Eth is a proof 75 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:55.279 of steak network. The ability to restake it is effectively 76 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:58.839 being able to like stake it again to secure what 77 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.040 we call off chain start vices or services that are 78 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:07.160 running not directly you know, with the l one validation logic. 79 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:13.720 So these are naturally like services like oracles bridges. There's 80 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.759 a there's a new case of a lot of like 81 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:22.519 AI use cases or or cryptographic networks, and so effectively 82 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:26.160 what happens is and I like to use analogies. So 83 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.920 like if you look back in the Internet of history, 84 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:33.240 history of the Internet, you know, early days you had 85 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.560 to kind of spin up your own TCP IP network, 86 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:38.959 like they had Aloha network, they had Darper network, they 87 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:40.759 had lots of different networks. You almost had to like 88 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.279 bootstrap your own network in order to connect with other networks. 89 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:48.240 And then you know, all of a sudden, data everyone 90 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.040 kind of consolidated on the CCP IP kind of what 91 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.000 we use today, and then you would connect by having 92 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:57.879 effectively servers in a data center. So this is like 93 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.800 the Facebook era where Facebook you to have to run 94 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:03.560 to you know, Sunny Vale to their data center there 95 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.800 and literally install servers. And I had a friend on 96 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:08.800 the team who made a ton of money doing this 97 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.079 and literally his job all day was just installing servers, 98 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:16.319 listening to like heavy metal and and that was like 99 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:20.160 how they scaled their network. Then you know, the virtual 100 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:22.720 kind of cloud era came where you could just spin 101 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:26.560 up a virtual cloud server on AWS or or Azure 102 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.560 or any of these or GCP and literally just click 103 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:31.680 a box where you want to deploy your service set 104 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.240 and then it just goes. So we feel like blockchain 105 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:39.079 is in that first era kind of migrating to the 106 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:41.600 second era, or isn't kind of starting in the second 107 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.879 era where we have to like bootstrap these blockchain networks 108 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.240 and do a lot of infrastructure build just to make 109 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:51.120 them connect, and then you know, it's it's still a 110 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:55.519 pretty burdensome experience for most developers. Or if you want 111 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:58.279 to like build on ethereum, it's just like connect to 112 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.800 Ethereum maybe has a little ecosystem around or goes around it, 113 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.000 but you can't really connect with like easily with like 114 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:08.480 x orp ledger. So what we are sharing in is 115 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.000 this third kind of wave where we're we want to 116 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:17.439 support the virtual cloud of decentralized security so that someone 117 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.879 can literally just like with an experience like AWS sign in, 118 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:26.680 say I want to inherit my decentialized security from you know, BTC, 119 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:32.319 ETH and XRP, and here's my wallet address or even 120 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.199 here's my you know, uh, stable coin or even credit card, 121 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.399 and I'm going to pay a fee for that service. Uh. 122 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:42.720 And what the service they're actually getting is the actual 123 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.759 validation logic from those chains, and so they can run 124 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.480 more decentralized services really from scratch at D zero. So 125 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:54.920 they're paying fees. Those fees are going in to contribute 126 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:57.759 to the yield, and so that's where the yield's actually 127 00:07:57.759 --> 00:07:59.680 coming from. Got it. 128 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:02.120 So you mentioned you can do this from your wallet. 129 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.480 You don't have to move anything or bridge anything. So 130 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:09.240 which wallets are supported, that's a good question. 131 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.279 We are going to be announcing, you know, different wallets 132 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:16.399 that are supporting the x ORP ledger. I think with 133 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:19.279 market activity like this, it's always great because more and 134 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.040 more wallets ad assets where there's high demand. There's clearly 135 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:27.040 high demand for XORP right now. So we are working 136 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:30.199 with a lot of the major wallets, especially those that 137 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:34.519 offer staking as a service. We want the experience to 138 00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.679 be as native to their user experience as possible and 139 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.399 they can just plug in, you know, to pixocor to 140 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:47.399 handle all the logic. So we want to basically abstract 141 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:51.720 away as much of the hoops as possible and make 142 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:55.720 the experience feel as native as possible because everyone knows, 143 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:59.200 you know, having my first time, you know, sending a 144 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:03.000 transaction for pre ledger and twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen was like, 145 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.919 oh my gosh, this is as fast as email. It's 146 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.000 pretty awesome. So we will want to make sure that 147 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:14.159 experience is you know, is duplicated through the staking service. 148 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:18.360 So let's do a mock scenario. So let's say I 149 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:22.120 have five thousand x herpee right in a wallet, and 150 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.720 it's one of the wallets which you're going to announce 151 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:30.360 that supports it. How do I go about enabling this 152 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.120 like walk us through that process? And maybe it's too 153 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.279 early because you know, you still have to do the 154 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:36.759 whole wallet announcement and so forth. 155 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:38.080 But what would that look like? 156 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.360 And is there a lock up or can I pull 157 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:41.440 in and out at any point? 158 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:45.639 Yeah, So you basically say you allocate a certain amount 159 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.840 of XRP in your wallet. The experience effectively is you 160 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.679 look like there's a there'll be a a button where 161 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:59.759 you can literally or kind of drop down select you know, 162 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:04.200 xrp uh and where you want to effectively kind of 163 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:08.480 delegate that XRP too. That feels almost like a deposit, 164 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:12.159 But the actual tokens aren't really leaving your wallet, right, 165 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.919 They're just you're basically just saying I'm going to I'm 166 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:22.399 making this this this commitment to for this amount of XRP. 167 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:27.720 It's going to be subject to earning additional rewards or 168 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:30.600 or just rewards for the first time, and then it's 169 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:33.679 also going to be subject to slashing. What that effectively does, 170 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:40.159 it's going to call to lock that specific set of XRP. 171 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:42.759 So you know, I was at Ripple when we were 172 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:45.320 working on the x ORP ledger to implement things like 173 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:50.679 cryptographic escrow and these other cryptographic conditions. So the only 174 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.759 actual requirements for the XRP ledger is to lock, unlock, 175 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.840 and slash, and slashing is effectively being able to send 176 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.000 to send the x ORP to a black hole address, 177 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.759 which every blockchain has, and then slashing itself has like 178 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:12.159 another set of conditions on it where that x ORP 179 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.080 will be sent to a black hole address based on 180 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:18.360 certain conditions that happen, you know, within the protocol. So 181 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:22.759 so effectively, it just feels like a very intuitive experience 182 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:26.720 where you know this is all happening within your own wallet. 183 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.200 We're really excited about this because again I'm an og 184 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.960 kind of crypto guy, and I, for instance, like have 185 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:39.759 bitcoin wallets that are you know, over a decade old, 186 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.039 and I have touched them in a long time, and 187 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.679 I don't want to necessarily, but if I'm going to, 188 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.360 I don't want the bitcoin to leave my wallet ideally, Yeah, 189 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.399 I also don't want to require like a lot of 190 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:56.159 trust or counterparty risk, you know, with whatever I'm interacting with. 191 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:00.320 So we wanted to make sure that experience is is 192 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:03.360 carried through to every single l one that we support. 193 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:08.039 And then when I'm thinking, is it kind of like 194 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:13.639 ef like, you know, where do I need a minimum 195 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.039 mount or it could put any amount? And is there 196 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.159 like a lock up like it has to stay there 197 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.720 for a certain cycle in order to get the rewards. 198 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.840 Uh So, the we're not sure yet on the minimum 199 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.480 I mean, they're obviously there's reserve requirements for for instance, 200 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.559 like you know, opening an account bearing that those reserve 201 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.519 requirements are met. We don't think that there will be 202 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:40.000 a minimum. We haven't at least heard a case for 203 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:42.480 the why there should be. We want to make this 204 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:46.919 as as open and permissionless and democratic as possible. Uh. 205 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.519 The Also, the lock up is effectively as long as 206 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.320 you want, and you could say I'm going to lock 207 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:57.519 you know, this set of XRP for some indefinite amount 208 00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:01.679 of time. You can claim the x ORP back at 209 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:05.480 any time. However, there's what you call an unbonding period. 210 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.200 Now this is this terminology for people who are only 211 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.759 you know, working with the XORP ledger is going to 212 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.440 be fairly new. This is a very familiar terminology for 213 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.240 like eth and other POS assets. So there may be 214 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:22.840 some education that needs to happen, but you could effectively 215 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:29.840 claim or unlock your XRP, which would include the rewards 216 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.840 that you have earned, and there's going to be some 217 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:39.559 unbonding period. We haven't set exactly for the XRAP ledger yet. Typically, 218 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.080 you know there's a window between like roughly average around 219 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:47.600 twenty one days. The reason for that is there's an 220 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:50.519 attack vector where you could effectively try to spam the 221 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.240 network and do something bad and then try to pull 222 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:55.840 your funds out quickly. Right, it's like a hit and run. 223 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.279 You want to prevent the hit and run from happening, 224 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:00.320 and the one way to do that is to have 225 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:04.159 a longer un bonding period. And so there's details on 226 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.480 that which you're still trying to figure out. But it's 227 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:12.039 a pretty fair system. Uh. It's also you know, like 228 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:13.840 we said, it's it's we try to make it as 229 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:19.399 trustless as possible, minimize what they call trust assumptions, make 230 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:24.679 it obviously open permission permissionless and uh and and decentralized 231 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:27.720 and and self custody of course, mm hmm. 232 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:30.879 And this may be a tough question to answer, but 233 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.080 you know, what, are you guys thinking the potential yield 234 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:38.120 or returns might be as far as percentage wise and 235 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:38.559 on going? 236 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:41.320 May be too early to answer this, it's a bit 237 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:45.159 too early, but I'll say anything, uh non zero is 238 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:50.759 an additive to what XOP holders are earning currently, which 239 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:55.440 is zero. I again, you know, I I've been an 240 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:58.960 XOP holder, big holder for a long time. I'm sort 241 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.279 of building this for my self because I have XRP 242 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.600 and I want that x and I and I hold. 243 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:08.360 I'm a long term holder and sometimes hard, but you know, 244 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:11.679 I held. So I want my XRP to work for 245 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:15.240 me effectively, right and I want to just kind of 246 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.399 set it and forget it and open my wallet one 247 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:20.159 day and be like, oh wow, I earned you know 248 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:23.360 x amount you know, and rewards. That's like a simple 249 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:27.639 request as a user. So we're in a position where 250 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.000 we can enable that for other x ORP holders, and 251 00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:31.159 I think that's pretty awesome. 252 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:34.399 Talk to us about security. You know, you mentioned like 253 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.879 the funds that the tokens are not leaving your wallet. 254 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.840 But are there any risks here because I'm sure people 255 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:43.639 are going to ask about that. 256 00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:48.799 Yep. So for every reward right upside, there's also downside risk. 257 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:55.320 So what the equation here is is your effectively opting 258 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.759 into receiving rewards based on the amount of XRP that 259 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:00.639 you stake. 260 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:01.399 Uh. 261 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:04.840 And the downside is that those that x RP could 262 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:08.519 be subject to what they call slashing. So slashing happens 263 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:13.159 if there's some violation of the of the underlying protocol. 264 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:17.000 In this case, the violation would be if a service 265 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:20.639 that's consuming that decentralized security or the economic security that 266 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:26.879 you're providing somehow makes a there's an issue, there's a 267 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.840 bug in their code. Uh. There they they miss you know, 268 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:34.039 a block on their on their validation, or something happens 269 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:39.080 they double sign. There's a whole set of conditions. If 270 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.960 any of those are violated, then that x RP that 271 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:46.600 you've staked to those operators. And again, by the way, 272 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:51.080 you have total control of where you want your your 273 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.600 stake x RP to to secure, so you can choose 274 00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:58.799 from a list of services. Uh. There is some risk 275 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.559 modeling that some of the some third parties are doing 276 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.680 and how to actually assess the risk of these services. 277 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:10.519 There's lots of different variables, but we do anticipate, you 278 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.680 know that there there's going to obviously be you know 279 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:18.839 risk in the system. That's why there's there's reward. There's 280 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.640 a few things that that we do as a protocol. 281 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:27.680 One we use something called secure signers. So these are 282 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:33.720 effectively systems that are running in trusted execution environments or tees. 283 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:40.160 It's effectively like effect like a box that that allows 284 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:47.160 for more trustless cryptographic kind of security around minimizing the 285 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.880 amount of errors that that can happen. So like obviously 286 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.400 code is like inputs and outputs, it effectively validates the 287 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.839 inputs so that the outputs are also you know, fair 288 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:01.759 and valid, and that minimizes a lot of the risk 289 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.599 of slashing. This has become a standard in a lot 290 00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:09.759 of staking services, especially restaking, and so we're opting or 291 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.400 adopting that standard. But these are things that we always 292 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:18.200 think about. You know, the industry around restaking and staking 293 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.400 of new assets is actually pretty new, so we're kind 294 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.400 of pushing forward and being very security first, you know 295 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:26.920 about the thinking. 296 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.319 Yeah, absolutely, and I love that you mentioned that there's 297 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.160 going be a rating system for some of these protocols, 298 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.400 So I'm assuming you guys will help provide that information 299 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.119 as well and where people can be Okay, this is 300 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.519 less risky, this is high risk, and things like that. 301 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.839 Yeah, we don't, we won't provide the information. Information will 302 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.920 be provided like by third parties. You know, there's there's 303 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:52.720 a couple of third parties that are working on some 304 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:58.039 dashboarding already, which kind of helps to for for users 305 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:00.400 to kind of think about how you know where their 306 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:05.279 stated assets should be secured. Again, you're not sending the 307 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.200 state assets to these people. You're not like, they're not 308 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.039 going to run away with your funds. The great thing 309 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:16.440 about the security model here is worst case scenario. If 310 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.440 you know there's a slashing where you know some some 311 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.359 percentage of your funds would be lost due to that 312 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.200 slashing or even worst case scenario. You have to kind 313 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:31.200 of think about worst case scenarios. The exo core network, 314 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:34.240 which is a decentralized network running it with tenorment consensus, 315 00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:38.200 you know, dozens of nodes. I think it's compromise in 316 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.799 any form. The worst thing that can happen is the 317 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.240 funds are either your funds or like users funds are 318 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:51.000 either burnt or they're sent back to the user. So 319 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:55.200 unless they're like the Joker with like the meme of 320 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.000 like just to send a message with the money burning 321 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:02.000 in the background, it's not a offitable attack vector, uh 322 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:06.240 for for for hackers because they can only either burn 323 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:08.799 the money or send it back to the user. They 324 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.960 can't actually send it back to themselves. And the reason 325 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.680 for that is there's actually preconditions that are set into 326 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.880 the wall where they can only the funds can only 327 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.160 go either to a black hole address which is predefined, 328 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:22.960 or back to the user. 329 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.359 Okay, that makes sense, And you mentioned like the wallet 330 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:31.200 announcement is going to come soon, so when you think 331 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.920 ETA folks may be able to you know, get get 332 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:36.000 this started. 333 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:42.119 Soon, TM, we definitely we want to take advantage, you know, 334 00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:46.039 of a lot of the market activity. There's clearly a 335 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:50.359 lot of x rps in spotlight. We're working very hard 336 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.359 to get you know, as much done as possible, and 337 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.720 we're excited. I'm more excited, you know about supporting x 338 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:02.599 r pages because it's obviously such a great community of 339 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.359 the XRP army. And i'd say that I've even noticed 340 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:08.839 in this new cycle that there's a lot of praise 341 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:12.200 being given from people that don't usually give praise to 342 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:18.240 to the XRP community, but you know, it's it's a strong, large, 343 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.599 dedicated community is finally getting rewarded for its patients, and 344 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:26.480 so we hope to you know, add up to you know, 345 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.240 or or add additional amount of rewards to that to 346 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:31.079 that patience. 347 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:35.680 Yeah, so, I mean XRP has been ripping. It's pretty amazing. 348 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:39.039 You know, you've surprised to see what's happening. Uh, And 349 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:40.480 to your point, there's a lot of praise about a 350 00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.519 lot of people are kind of in shock, like wait, 351 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:46.240 what XRPS ripping like crazy? It's over two dollars now, 352 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:49.079 it's a two dollars and eighty cents. What are your 353 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.200 thoughts that when you saw the price action, I. 354 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:59.960 Wasn't surprised given all of the the series of activity, 355 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:06.880 mostly regatory and political. You know, I'd like to say 356 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.400 that you know, Ripple or XRP shipped some new feature 357 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:16.559 and like this whole thing's like being driven by the 358 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.720 promise and technology of the XORP ledger, which I think 359 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:25.680 is great, But this is purely like driven by the 360 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:33.319 removal of the regatory overhang that Ripple has been subjected to. 361 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:37.920 I was in the office when we got the message, 362 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:44.960 you know, about the sec AC reglatory action in twenty 363 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.160 two December twenty twenty, so I feel that I felt 364 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:53.440 the you know, that impact very viscerally. And so it's 365 00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:56.240 been a long time. I think, you know, XRP missed 366 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:01.079 to a large part, missed the last market cycle. And 367 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:04.799 this is directly related to the regulatory actions brought by 368 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.279 the sec which Ripple was able to successfully defend in court. 369 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.640 So it's not like that Ripple got lucky and and 370 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:16.519 this happened, but it actually defended itself in a hostile 371 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:22.400 environment with the hostile political administration, and I think that's commendable. 372 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.240 And I think that's why this time it's a little different. 373 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:29.519 You get you see even the most ardent ex orpiece 374 00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:32.440 skeptics and Ripple skeptics are kind of tipping their hat 375 00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:36.920 because you know, Stu and Brad and Chris, they all 376 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.599 went to bat and Stu's got an incredible legal team. 377 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.039 They he doesn't probably praise them enough, but I know 378 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.079 a lot of them personally, and it's just like a 379 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.960 crack team and and they did a lot of work 380 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.319 and spent a lot of resources to defend themselves, and 381 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:55.559 I think that now is the fruit of the labor 382 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.480 that's happening. So yeah, I'm very excited, and I hope 383 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.200 everyone else is. 384 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.839 Yeah, it's exciting times. And we're seeing a lot of 385 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:10.400 institutions are filing for XRP spot ETFs. I was surprised 386 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:14.640 by that great scale relaunched your XRP trust and seeing 387 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:17.359 a lot of the trading volume come from institutions as well. 388 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:19.880 I think the folks at Falcon X just tweeted out 389 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:23.079 about that, and then it sounds like r l U, 390 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.079 s D to stable coins are right around the corner. 391 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:26.960 So it's exciting times. 392 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.920 Yeah. I think what was actually more surprising is that 393 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.880 x orp held on as you know, a top ten 394 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.039 it got for a while there, it started looking like 395 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:40.519 it may drop out of the top ten. I don't 396 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.359 think it ever did. But I think that's more surprising 397 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:48.119 to the market and even to the skeptics that rep 398 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:50.799 that Xcorp was able to hold on for so long 399 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.960 given all the scrutiny. I don't think I don't think 400 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.839 most assets would be able to do that, and this 401 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.559