WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ali. I came out after twenty years of marriage

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<v Speaker 1>and I have three kids.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Melissa and I have two kids, and I came

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<v Speaker 2>out at thirty seven after an eleven year marriage.

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<v Speaker 1>This podcast is about coming out later and the struggles

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<v Speaker 1>and victories that come with it.

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<v Speaker 2>When coming out feels like the end of the world,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's really just the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the Lesbian Chronicles. The Lesbian Chronicle. Why is

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<v Speaker 1>it always so scary?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I thought we were going to say it.

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<v Speaker 2>For a second. I was like, oh, no, she has

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<v Speaker 2>stage fright.

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<v Speaker 1>On stage fright. I wish I did have stage fright.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm playing around with a ring light and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I'm getting it right. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you think? I mean?

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<v Speaker 2>I could tell when you turned it off a minute ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, hello, pre fourth of July.

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<v Speaker 2>I know it's fourth of July weekend. It's a big

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<v Speaker 2>weekend here in Peachtree City.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it okay? What do y'all do?

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<v Speaker 2>Go all out on Saturday? It's like a parade in

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<v Speaker 2>the morning, which is a great parade. I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's kind of tough, you know, like these days

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<v Speaker 2>to be like fully patriotic, but I'm still trying to

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<v Speaker 2>be like I can embrace it for a day for

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<v Speaker 2>the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Do it for the kids.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a big parade in the morning, then we usually

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<v Speaker 2>go swimming, and then fireworks at night. So nice all in, Yeah, okay, nice,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited. You you're going to Florida.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm going to Florida, which Red just told me

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<v Speaker 1>that it's like supposedly the airport tomorrow is going to

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<v Speaker 1>be complete and utter mayhem. Yeah he heard, I know.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna have together. We actually have a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>early ish flight and so maybe that's helpful. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>but we're just going to get up really early. He

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<v Speaker 1>and I are meeting Tatum and Owen in Sarasota and

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<v Speaker 1>then we'll be there for the fourth for four or

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<v Speaker 1>four nights.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I would say, get there early, don't do your typical.

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<v Speaker 1>My typical run in at the last I won't because

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<v Speaker 1>I noticed on my flight there are no available seats. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm like, if I miss it, I'm not in

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<v Speaker 1>a good way.

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<v Speaker 2>And with the fourth being on a Saturday, I guarantee

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<v Speaker 2>you so many people are doing the Thursday through Monday

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<v Speaker 2>weekend yeah, so yeah, it's going to.

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<v Speaker 1>Be I can't disappoint my parents. They're so excited. We're

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<v Speaker 1>all going to be there, My cousins, my kids, my

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<v Speaker 1>sister and her husband are obviously lived there, but she's

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<v Speaker 1>got like all her people in one spot like this

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<v Speaker 1>one time every year, and I know that's like my

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<v Speaker 1>parents like thrill of a lifetime.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm sure there because this is I've been in

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<v Speaker 2>Panama City Beach for the fourth before and like people

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<v Speaker 2>set off fireworks like crazy. There is the same.

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<v Speaker 1>It's totally the same. But keep in mind, now we

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<v Speaker 1>used to be on the beach and now we have

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<v Speaker 1>no The hurricanes did that, so we're now in a

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<v Speaker 1>new spot, so we don't know really yet what the

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<v Speaker 1>fireworks are going to be like. So I think it'll

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<v Speaker 1>be great no matter what. We'll find them. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be like the old days where you're

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<v Speaker 1>just like playing in the beach and it was just

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<v Speaker 1>such a world and my kids grew up in that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, now that's not the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is so nice to be able to just

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<v Speaker 2>sit on like your porch or your balcony and watch

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<v Speaker 2>fireworks like I know, so much fun.

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<v Speaker 1>But last year, not last year, but the year before.

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<v Speaker 1>We were It was July fourth, and the fireworks were

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<v Speaker 1>going off and some guys were fishing off the beach

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<v Speaker 1>while we were like doing Fourth of July with our coolers,

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<v Speaker 1>and they caught a massive tarpain. Oh, they're like, fight,

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<v Speaker 1>have you ever seen somebody catch a tarpin off the beach? Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you can't take your eyes off it. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it was just like insane. I mean, nobody cared

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<v Speaker 1>about the fireworks. They were just like watching this turpin

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<v Speaker 1>come in.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's pretty big, right, huge?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it was I can't even guess it was massive,

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<v Speaker 1>but he did it for a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like surprising off the beach. Yeah, that's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen people catch sharks off of beach.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't need to see that to me. I'm already

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<v Speaker 1>so scared.

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<v Speaker 2>I caught a shark really not off the beach, but

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<v Speaker 2>like deep sea fishing in Panama City.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it was pretty small, but it was still like still, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's totally shocking.

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<v Speaker 2>When I'm reeling it in there like it's a shark,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, wait, what what, I don't know that

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<v Speaker 2>was an option.

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<v Speaker 1>I always tell the story that like by my parents' house,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a guy who has like a seaplane and he

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<v Speaker 1>just flies around down on the island. And he was

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<v Speaker 1>saying that, like if you could see what he sees

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<v Speaker 1>from up there, He's like, you would never get in

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<v Speaker 1>the water. And so I'm like, why did you tell

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<v Speaker 1>me that? Because now I know, Yeah, I now the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you've ruined it for me.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to go like way out and like second sandbar,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't do it anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, now that I know, so I'm too chicken.

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<v Speaker 1>Too chicken. I've got a friend right now who's out

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<v Speaker 1>on a one of those like chartered trips where you

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<v Speaker 1>like go out on the boat. Actually they're not chartering it.

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<v Speaker 1>They're taking the boat, but they're out like in starting

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<v Speaker 1>in Saint Martin's and going Saint martin and going to

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<v Speaker 1>all these like crazy places Saint Bart's, like stopping at

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<v Speaker 1>each one and going by boat. And I just it

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<v Speaker 1>like lit up in me. That is a trip I

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<v Speaker 1>am desperate to do. That sounds like I just live

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<v Speaker 1>on a boat for like a week. Yeah, I think.

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<v Speaker 2>I would love that, But I also get sea stick.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm hearing this more and more from people like

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<v Speaker 1>you can't take a drama, meine and get with the program.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that's what I did when I went deep sea

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<v Speaker 2>fishing in Key West. It was the roughest seas I've

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<v Speaker 2>been in on a pretty small boat, and I ended

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<v Speaker 2>up taking a dramamine. It was not working. I also

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<v Speaker 2>was very unprepared. I did not have food. I barely

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<v Speaker 2>brought water. I was a moron that weekend. But I

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<v Speaker 2>took one dramamine didn't work. I took the second because

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<v Speaker 2>I was like green and I was basically napping in

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<v Speaker 2>between my turn, like miserable. So yeah, but dramamine did help,

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<v Speaker 2>but I probably I needed to take it before I

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<v Speaker 2>even got on the boat. So but it's one of

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<v Speaker 2>those things where it's like I want to do the activity.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it to blast, but my body is going

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<v Speaker 2>to fight me.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't get I guess sometimes, but it has to

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<v Speaker 1>be really nuts for me to be sea sick.

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<v Speaker 2>This was nuts. This was like back and forth the

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<v Speaker 2>whole entire time, and it was like an eight hour day.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh god, Okay. I like the idea of like island hopping,

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<v Speaker 1>because then it's like just when you're getting tired of

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<v Speaker 1>being on the boat. You're stopping at some eat spot

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<v Speaker 1>and like having drinks or eating or whatever, and I

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<v Speaker 1>like to read or just like be quiet. Like I

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<v Speaker 1>could see where it would be fun to just be

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<v Speaker 1>out on the water for days on end, cooking dinner

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<v Speaker 1>on the boat. You don't know, that just sounds it's

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<v Speaker 1>like camping on steroids with a real bed.

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<v Speaker 2>With a Yeah, like maybe better than camping.

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<v Speaker 1>It's way better than camping. I mean, but the stars

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<v Speaker 1>like all of it. I don't know. I'm just like

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<v Speaker 1>magically like thinking. But ever since she went, I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>this is just I want to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's very cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get gay.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get gay. You said we have an email? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so were allowed to read the email? Did they give?

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<v Speaker 1>I think I can. If I can make it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of vague, I can read it, I'll make it back. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So she says, Hi, Ali and Melissa. I'm late in life.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up to almost a year being out publicly has

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<v Speaker 1>been very confronting for me. There's a term I've heard

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<v Speaker 1>second coming out that I really relate to, because it

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<v Speaker 1>turns out so far the women I'm attracted to are

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<v Speaker 1>not what I imagined or expected. They tend to be

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<v Speaker 1>more masculine presenting and more obviously gay, and that has

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<v Speaker 1>brought up a lot internally and externally for me, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>around family, friends, and public perception. I would so love

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<v Speaker 1>an episode on this, And then I told her I

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<v Speaker 1>love this idea. I remember feeling that way with my catalyst.

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<v Speaker 1>She was obviously gay, and it embarrassed me a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit around my family and in the really early days.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course now I am more masculine than I

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<v Speaker 1>was back then, so obviously I've gotten comfortable with it.

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<v Speaker 1>She does on to say, yes, it's been a challenge.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm only just starting to feel okay about it. When

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<v Speaker 1>I first came out, I did a lot of classic

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<v Speaker 1>things like cutting my hair off blah blah blah. I

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<v Speaker 1>also think finding my new aesthetic has been really challenging too.

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<v Speaker 1>I felt I wanted to look the part, you know anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's such it is such an interesting journey. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that part of the journey I am feeling. It

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<v Speaker 1>feels kind of close to home for me right now,

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<v Speaker 1>but bigger than that. I do recall my mom and

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<v Speaker 1>dad like meeting my catalyst, like one time they met

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<v Speaker 1>her they are feeling like I wish she didn't look

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<v Speaker 1>so masked. And as I've gotten more mask I've thought

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<v Speaker 1>about oftentimes meeting women's families and wondering if it's like

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm embarrassing for them in some way because I

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<v Speaker 1>look gay. Now. Sometimes sometimes I don't, but sometimes I do. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>most of the time I do.

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<v Speaker 2>Most of the time, you do?

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<v Speaker 1>Ye, almost all the time I do. And so is

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<v Speaker 1>that we cannot hide the gay walk. We cannot hide

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<v Speaker 1>it at the cloud.

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<v Speaker 2>I've had the gay walk since I was in high

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<v Speaker 2>school or earlier than that.

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<v Speaker 1>I know if I have the gay walk now do

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<v Speaker 1>I Yeah, you do, I think, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think, but maybe not as bad as some of us,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's there.

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<v Speaker 1>I do think too. Like I've had friends say to

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<v Speaker 1>me that like even like with their children, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>just their parents, their children have a feeling around why

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<v Speaker 1>are you dating such like mask women? Why can't you

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<v Speaker 1>just pick like a really fem women and be two

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<v Speaker 1>fem women like that seems more palatable right to people?

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<v Speaker 1>And why is that? And then also like why is

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<v Speaker 1>that not what is happening that that can't be the

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<v Speaker 1>way for me at least?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think it's like very layered. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>why is it.

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<v Speaker 1>More palatable, Why is it more palatable to a mother

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<v Speaker 1>or a child to wish you Melissa would date somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who looks like a very femin lesbian. Why do they

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<v Speaker 1>want that for you?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's one of those things where it's like

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<v Speaker 2>like you're well, more digestible, you know, more acceptable, and

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<v Speaker 2>it will more like they do okay, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think there's a lot of people who are kind of

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<v Speaker 2>operating under that, like not even realizing it, but they're

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<v Speaker 2>doing a lot of things to fit in in life.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, think about all like what the suburban moms.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, whenever some new trend starts, they're all hopping

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<v Speaker 2>on board. They all want to be accepted, and in

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of ways, they all end up looking the same, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, exactly the same.

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<v Speaker 2>Like Lululemon is thriving here in Peachtree City because that's

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<v Speaker 2>where all the women shop, you know, the Stanley cups,

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<v Speaker 2>like I don't even know what cup is in style

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<v Speaker 2>right now, but like those little like trendy things. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like all part of like that mass being accepted. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think when you know, you're already struggling to accept

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<v Speaker 2>yourself and then you're like, Okay, I'm gay, but like, look,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm dating someone who looks like everybody else, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like I fit in too. Like I think that's part

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<v Speaker 2>of it, you know, what is it? Like?

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<v Speaker 1>Why do I care what you do? I know I'm

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<v Speaker 1>picking you, like why I'm picking you? So to my family,

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<v Speaker 1>you're more palatable if you look one way. And I

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<v Speaker 1>could honestly say my parents probably would fall into that catagory,

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<v Speaker 1>like if they could choose for me, if I have

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<v Speaker 1>to be gay, they would rather me pick someone really feminine.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and saying here, that was one of the things

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<v Speaker 2>one of the very first things my mom said when

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<v Speaker 2>I came out was only date the pretty ones.

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<v Speaker 1>What the fuck does that even mean?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? Like what but when does that?

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<v Speaker 1>If you would to say to her to find that

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<v Speaker 1>for me, she.

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<v Speaker 2>Would say, the feminine girls, the ones that don't have

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<v Speaker 2>short hair, the ones that aren't dressing Like what if.

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<v Speaker 1>They're feminine and they're not attractive, feminine, plenty of them.

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<v Speaker 2>So lipstick on a pig, right, doesn't fix the walk.

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<v Speaker 2>So but like, I don't I think you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>also speaking being raised by parents that my parents are

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<v Speaker 2>now in their eighties, you know, like the way you look,

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<v Speaker 2>the perception is so drilled in their heads, and then

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<v Speaker 2>it was before drilled in my head and yours too,

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<v Speaker 2>I think to some extent. So I think that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that internalized homophobia of it all, Like we can

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<v Speaker 2>you can be accepting of being of people that are

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<v Speaker 2>gay or whatever, but it's like, don't be too gay,

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<v Speaker 2>too gay. It's kind of like the flamboyant gay man,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like people get really irritated by that, like that,

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<v Speaker 2>why do you have to be so gay? Why are

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<v Speaker 2>you so flamboyant when there's like plenty of like gay

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<v Speaker 2>men that are not that way, right, But it's like

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<v Speaker 2>different personalities, you know, it's true.

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<v Speaker 1>I just wonder if, like Tatum got off Instagram a

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<v Speaker 1>long time ago, like years ago, and I remember her

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<v Speaker 1>saying that, like she was part of what she liked

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<v Speaker 1>about not being on Instagram, and she's like, my style

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<v Speaker 1>has gone so rogue because I have no I literally

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<v Speaker 1>wear what I feel good in and she ends up

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<v Speaker 1>looking great. But it's like she's like, my style is

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<v Speaker 1>so rogue because I don't see anybody on socials get

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<v Speaker 1>dressing like I don't have no sense of style anymore

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<v Speaker 1>of what's in because I'm not on social media and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I was thinking about how like to

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<v Speaker 1>her that was a bonus of like, I'm not going

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<v Speaker 1>to end up looking like everybody else because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>see even see what they're doing. Yeah, but I do

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<v Speaker 1>remember like as a mom at my kids preschool, every

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<v Speaker 1>mom at Saint Anne's preschool had the same Louis Vuitton

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<v Speaker 1>big bag yep. And I remember like thinking like there's

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<v Speaker 1>no value anymore in the bag because and every single

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<v Speaker 1>person has it. It stops being this exclusive thing. Now

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<v Speaker 1>it's just the masses of sheep all have the same bag.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So now now you've lost all the value there. There's

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<v Speaker 1>value when there's less of it. Yeah, And so then

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<v Speaker 1>it's like I don't know, like I think I would,

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<v Speaker 1>I would get curious about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually just saw a TikTok video because like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of I'm on like Japan TikTok right now, oh gosh,

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of people go over there to buy

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<v Speaker 2>like designer stuff, yeah, because it's so much cheaper there.

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<v Speaker 2>And this one video I saw, the woman was like

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<v Speaker 2>I got there and saw it all like just kind

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<v Speaker 2>of displayed out almost like in a like TJ Max

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<v Speaker 2>kind of setting. Yeah, and she's like, get lost all

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<v Speaker 2>the appeal, Like.

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00:15:41.799 --> 00:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>It lost all the appeal.

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<v Speaker 2>It's expensive because we've made it expensive in the United

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<v Speaker 2>got it Like it's not that great, it's not that quality, right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's just what everybody else is doing, And it's I

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00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:59.279
<v Speaker 2>feel like that's a huge, huge thing like for us

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<v Speaker 2>as late in life. Life. One of the reasons why

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<v Speaker 2>we're here is because we were trying to do what

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<v Speaker 2>everybody else is doing, or I thought.

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<v Speaker 1>You were gonna say the opposite. One of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>why we're here is.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I'm saying why it took us so long? Yeah, yep,

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<v Speaker 2>because I thought I was supposed to get married and

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<v Speaker 2>have kids. You know, me today, I would have had

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00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot more put a lot more thought into what

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00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.000
<v Speaker 2>I wanted versus what I was everybody else in my

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<v Speaker 2>life wanted for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or like defining what your body is supposed to be,

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00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:35.639
<v Speaker 1>or your makeup or your hair cut. You know, I

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00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>mean there's a million reasons people cut their hair.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, and that was another thing my mom said

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<v Speaker 2>when I came out was don't cut your hair.

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<v Speaker 1>Shut your hair. Yeah, that must have been so like ingrained.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't even like on my radar to cut my hair.

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<v Speaker 1>You know she was already thinking about it. Yeah, what

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<v Speaker 1>does your mom say about my hair? Because she's so

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<v Speaker 1>lovely to me, I want to go up to her

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<v Speaker 1>and be like, say it to my face.

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00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:04.039
<v Speaker 2>Say it to my face. She would probably still say

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<v Speaker 2>that your hair is like still feminine. I feel like.

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<v Speaker 1>She's so loving to me when I have had like

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00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.759
<v Speaker 1>experiences with her, But now that I know she hates

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00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:13.440
<v Speaker 1>my hair.

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00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:16.960
<v Speaker 2>No, my mom is I will say that my mom

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00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:20.039
<v Speaker 2>is very sweet, very loving. She's very supportive. So I

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00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:21.920
<v Speaker 2>don't want to sit here and like dog on my mom.

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00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.680
<v Speaker 2>She's shocked me with how supportive she's been. And she

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00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.440
<v Speaker 2>and my dad have met a few people that I've dated,

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00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:33.160
<v Speaker 2>and they have been lovely to every single one in

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00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.519
<v Speaker 2>a way that I never would have expected. But I

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00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.880
<v Speaker 2>think they are a little bit like oh a girly one.

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00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Great girly one. Check. I was at a birthday party

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of weeks ago in Florida with my mom

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<v Speaker 1>and dad, with my very conservative family at large, and

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00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:54.359
<v Speaker 1>I thought one of the ways that they like are accepting.

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<v Speaker 1>Is one of my cousin cousins, boy cousins, conservative boy cousins,

347
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.519
<v Speaker 1>came up to me and he's like, my wife cannot

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00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.599
<v Speaker 1>stop looking at her hair. She said, it's like inspiring

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00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.359
<v Speaker 1>her to cut her hair. And it's like, I think

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<v Speaker 1>that was his way of saying, like, we don't care

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00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:13.119
<v Speaker 1>that you're I don't know, like I felt more it

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00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:15.559
<v Speaker 1>was not even about the hair anymore. It was more like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, you look good with short hair, and

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00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:21.720
<v Speaker 1>my wife now wants to cut her hair. Yeah, like

355
00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:24.039
<v Speaker 1>he's being accepting. I guess that's what I'm saying. I

356
00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:25.759
<v Speaker 1>looked very gay at this party.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and it is like, what makes short hair gay?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah you decided that.

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00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Like I just like with the actress that came

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<v Speaker 2>to mind as Leslie Bibb, like she has pretty short hair,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and she felt super feminine. Yeah. I watched

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<v Speaker 2>Steele Magnolia's Last Week. Julie Roberts in the movie cuts

363
00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:52.160
<v Speaker 2>her hair really short, she still looks very feminine. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think a lot of it isn't just the

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<v Speaker 2>short hair. It's the the how you dress and how

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<v Speaker 2>you carry yourself. You know. Yeah, I spend a lot

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<v Speaker 2>less time thinking about my mannerisms. You know, I used

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00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:06.599
<v Speaker 2>to think about that all the time, Like how am

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<v Speaker 2>I sitting? How am I walking? I mean, like I

370
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>said in high school, my theater teacher said, I walked

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<v Speaker 2>like John Wayne.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, Like what a compliment?

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<v Speaker 2>Now, what a compliment for a seventeen year old girl

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<v Speaker 2>to hear in front of the entire class? What brutal?

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<v Speaker 1>Who says to a girl? I don't know, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>think I think that part's interesting of like what the

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00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.079
<v Speaker 1>people around us, and I think what she's expressing is

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<v Speaker 1>not only are you, like to your point, going through

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00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:41.119
<v Speaker 1>this huge process on your own? Now I got to

380
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<v Speaker 1>worry about what my sister thinks or my friends think

381
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<v Speaker 1>about this. Butch, chick, I'm showing up with.

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00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like, But also how much of that do

383
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.759
<v Speaker 2>they actually care about? Are we? Is this our perception

384
00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:00.039
<v Speaker 2>of their thoughts? Is it our own internalized shit? Like?

385
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.599
<v Speaker 2>What is actually factual in this equation?

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00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:07.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, some of it is because your mom said, only

387
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the pretty ones people's kids have expressed. Why do you

388
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:13.400
<v Speaker 1>have to pick somebody? But I guess too, It's like

389
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:15.279
<v Speaker 1>we all have it took me a minute to figure

390
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.319
<v Speaker 1>out what my taste is. Yeah, like I didn't know

391
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.200
<v Speaker 1>when I first came out. I think, I, well, my

392
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.319
<v Speaker 1>catalyst was pretty masked, wouldn't you say? Yeah? And then

393
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.759
<v Speaker 1>I thought I would like them. Then I thought I've

394
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of morphed through the years to get to where

395
00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:32.559
<v Speaker 1>I am now. And now I would say I'm pretty

396
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.240
<v Speaker 1>attracted to feminine women.

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00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.519
<v Speaker 2>And like I mean, I would say I've been about

398
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:43.000
<v Speaker 2>like mostly fem kind of somewhat on the mass side

399
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:45.559
<v Speaker 2>with one person I dated a few years ago. And

400
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:51.759
<v Speaker 2>it is interesting, It's like what actually matters to you?

401
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Is it like is it really in a relationship and

402
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.119
<v Speaker 2>a long term thing? Is it really like how someone

403
00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:01.039
<v Speaker 2>looks on a surface level or or is it who

404
00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>they are as a human being that like you need

405
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.839
<v Speaker 2>to pay closer attention to. And I don't know. I

406
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.480
<v Speaker 2>think maybe there's part of me that's been more attracted

407
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.160
<v Speaker 2>to the fem women because that's what it's like. Okay,

408
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:16.359
<v Speaker 2>I've already blown up everything in my life and like

409
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm lucky that my parents have been so supportive, Like

410
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I better do this like one little thing to make

411
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.720
<v Speaker 2>sure that like that support remains but at the same time,

412
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:26.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, one of the reasons why I didn't think

413
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.319
<v Speaker 2>I was gay is because I wasn't attracted to those

414
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.559
<v Speaker 2>mask women, like the real butch lesbians. And I mean

415
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.160
<v Speaker 2>always thought that that was like the dynamic every time

416
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:37.880
<v Speaker 2>was like there was a butcher and there was a femme,

417
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:40.839
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, well, in that scenario, I'm the

418
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:46.200
<v Speaker 2>fem and I'm not attracted to butch women, So not gay.

419
00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:48.960
<v Speaker 1>See I look at the opposite, You're attracted to women women,

420
00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:54.640
<v Speaker 1>I mention gay, But you tell yourself whatever restrained no.

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00:21:54.440 --> 00:22:00.160
<v Speaker 2>No no, And it's.

422
00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, to your is it like you and feel

423
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.680
<v Speaker 1>like you're supposed to like this certain thing now like

424
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.200
<v Speaker 1>let's say, like you said, you're still kind of following

425
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.079
<v Speaker 1>that heteronormative thing where you're going to be now like

426
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.240
<v Speaker 1>the mask one and then you're going to pick somebody

427
00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:17.640
<v Speaker 1>them Or is is it that you really are attracted

428
00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:21.640
<v Speaker 1>to them or is it like something about you internally

429
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:24.839
<v Speaker 1>that like feels good.

430
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:30.279
<v Speaker 2>People pleasing? Yeah, Like I know, we've talked about that

431
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:31.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot. I feel like a lot of people who

432
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:37.079
<v Speaker 2>came out later are just natural people pleasers, And part

433
00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.839
<v Speaker 2>of that is you know to like we said, follow

434
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:44.039
<v Speaker 2>the norm, do the thing, marry the man because it

435
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>makes everybody else around you happy. And I think maybe

436
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 2>that's part of it, like to kind of take that

437
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:53.799
<v Speaker 2>notion and like this person saying like kind of being surprised,

438
00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:58.200
<v Speaker 2>like she is attracted to this mask woman. Yeah, it's

439
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the perception of everybody else around her that she needs

440
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:04.359
<v Speaker 2>to let go. And that's hard.

441
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.640
<v Speaker 1>I know, I think what I am attracted to. I

442
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:09.920
<v Speaker 1>always go back to that in my mind, that forty

443
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:15.559
<v Speaker 1>year conversation like litmus test of like is this somebody

444
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.559
<v Speaker 1>that I want to have a forty year conversation? Is

445
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.359
<v Speaker 1>this somebody that I want to watch TV quietly with

446
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:25.160
<v Speaker 1>and then wake up and have coffee with? Or is

447
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.720
<v Speaker 1>this somebody that within a couple hours I'm ready to

448
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.880
<v Speaker 1>go to bed because I'm tired of entertaining or feeling

449
00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:35.640
<v Speaker 1>like I have to like put in a little effort.

450
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.279
<v Speaker 1>It's not just like an effortless forty year conversation, because

451
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 1>that is what marriage is. At the end of the day,

452
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:43.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm picking you to talk to for the next forty

453
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.920
<v Speaker 1>years of my life, day in and day out. When

454
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.279
<v Speaker 1>shit hits the fan, when stuff is rough, you are

455
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.240
<v Speaker 1>going to be the support in the storm for me?

456
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.680
<v Speaker 1>And is that? Are you the person I want there?

457
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

458
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.839
<v Speaker 1>Or do you feel unsafe in some way for me

459
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.119
<v Speaker 1>that you're probably not the best port for me to

460
00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.079
<v Speaker 1>grab onto and not have anything to do with fem

461
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:02.680
<v Speaker 1>or mask.

462
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:08.279
<v Speaker 2>No exactly, Yeah, not a thing. And you know, in

463
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:11.519
<v Speaker 2>those final years, we're all gonna be wearing like sweatpants

464
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:12.440
<v Speaker 2>and oversize.

465
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.680
<v Speaker 1>It's ready, I'm already doing that, so right there, you

466
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:17.680
<v Speaker 1>have it pants right now.

467
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

468
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 1>But I think even beyond that ten years from now,

469
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:23.559
<v Speaker 1>it's like I look at some couples I'll be out

470
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:28.519
<v Speaker 1>at dinner and I'm thinking I would literally rather I

471
00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:30.279
<v Speaker 1>can't sit here. I could not be with them for

472
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 1>ten years. I would be ready to like pull my

473
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.200
<v Speaker 1>hair out, like I don't so to think forty years

474
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:38.519
<v Speaker 1>that I'm still going to be talking to you about

475
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.799
<v Speaker 1>the grass or about the dog, or about have we

476
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>eaten enough vegetables today? Are you the person that I

477
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:47.440
<v Speaker 1>want to have that conversation with, because that is what

478
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 1>it is, that's all. Yeah, And a lot of people

479
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.480
<v Speaker 1>just pick on things that It's like, I don't know

480
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:58.079
<v Speaker 1>a lot of my straight friends pick men that I'm like,

481
00:24:58.200 --> 00:24:59.519
<v Speaker 1>is that your port in the storm?

482
00:24:59.599 --> 00:24:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Good?

483
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Fuck luck?

484
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:03.480
<v Speaker 2>That is interesting, Like I do feel like in the

485
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.279
<v Speaker 2>straight relationships there are a lot of like people. I'm like,

486
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:12.440
<v Speaker 2>this man provides zero substance, like in a conversation, right,

487
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:13.319
<v Speaker 2>and you're in.

488
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.000
<v Speaker 1>It and women too, But I'm just using that as

489
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.519
<v Speaker 1>an example, right, And when you think about like the

490
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.440
<v Speaker 1>man is there to like, let's say you pick a

491
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.559
<v Speaker 1>man because you're like, well, what he's adding is like

492
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:26.880
<v Speaker 1>he's protection for me or he's it's like, we don't

493
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:29.680
<v Speaker 1>live in the ice ages where I've got a saber

494
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.279
<v Speaker 1>toothed tiger coming after me, and I need this big man,

495
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Like I don't know, Like that's not a good enough reason. Yeah,

496
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.519
<v Speaker 1>but now you got to bring something else because that's

497
00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.960
<v Speaker 1>not gonna that's not enough anymore. Now I need a

498
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:44.880
<v Speaker 1>forty year conversation. Can you do that? Can you do that? Well?

499
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.519
<v Speaker 1>Because that's what I really need.

500
00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:50.680
<v Speaker 2>M M for sure, because yeah, those final years it's

501
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>most likely just going to be you two yeah at

502
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:54.400
<v Speaker 2>the end and.

503
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:58.160
<v Speaker 1>With your children, and it's like, is this somebody who's

504
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Speaker 1>going to be a good example for them, a good

505
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.519
<v Speaker 1>partner that's going to show them what it looks like

506
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:04.519
<v Speaker 1>to be a partner.

507
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.000
<v Speaker 2>And that doesn't matter your kids.

508
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.119
<v Speaker 1>Likes your kids, wants your kids, is rooting for your kids?

509
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a whole nother section of it. It's like,

510
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:17.599
<v Speaker 1>and again, it doesn't matter whether you're fem or mask.

511
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.599
<v Speaker 1>You need somebody that's like investing in them because they are.

512
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:24.039
<v Speaker 1>You know, if there's three of them and one of

513
00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:26.720
<v Speaker 1>me that make up the pie, they're seventy five percent

514
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:29.839
<v Speaker 1>of it. So are you down for seventy five percent

515
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 1>of my pie is rooting for these three?

516
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I also have to wonder too, because it feels

517
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:42.880
<v Speaker 2>like it feels like there's more masculine leaning lesbians, you know,

518
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:42.960
<v Speaker 2>I know.

519
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.440
<v Speaker 1>And here, but mass shortage used to be a thing.

520
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't believe that. Okay, I think it's more

521
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.359
<v Speaker 2>it's just harder to find pick out the femmes. But

522
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I think these hyper hyper feminine women are few and

523
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:03.079
<v Speaker 2>far between. Like even even the most fem women that

524
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.079
<v Speaker 2>I've dated have a little bit of like masculine energy

525
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.559
<v Speaker 2>to them, right, you know. And that's the other thing too.

526
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:12.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I think ultimately I'm just attracted to someone

527
00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.599
<v Speaker 2>who's really confident in themselves.

528
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Totally, Like I love that so too.

529
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.640
<v Speaker 2>But it's kind of like if if you're dating and

530
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.200
<v Speaker 2>you're focusing on only landing this hyperfem women and you're

531
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:31.440
<v Speaker 2>not having success, like open your eyes a little bit,

532
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:34.880
<v Speaker 2>like why are you focused on that feminine woman? Like

533
00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:37.559
<v Speaker 2>why why does that have to be your partner? Like

534
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:40.920
<v Speaker 2>why can't you lean a little bit more down the spectrum?

535
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.599
<v Speaker 1>Or do you? Is it interesting too that the hyperfem

536
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:49.519
<v Speaker 1>women tend to want mask women some.

537
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:50.839
<v Speaker 2>Of them think of them and women.

538
00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:53.680
<v Speaker 1>Some but I don't see that that often think about

539
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:55.359
<v Speaker 1>it in our whole friend group, I can think of

540
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:59.720
<v Speaker 1>one couple that's that. Yeah, the rest of them are

541
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 1>not the fem ultra femme women that I know. Their

542
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:08.039
<v Speaker 1>partners are masks. Yeah, more mask than men. So that's

543
00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:12.319
<v Speaker 1>who they're picking. Yeah, it's just it's interesting, I guess

544
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.240
<v Speaker 1>to say the least. Let me ask you something really

545
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:16.839
<v Speaker 1>funny that just happened to me literally within the last

546
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hours.

547
00:28:18.079 --> 00:28:19.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you know we talk.

548
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:22.279
<v Speaker 1>About like the power dynamic and a kiss, like there's

549
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:25.519
<v Speaker 1>somebody who has the power and that they're on the

550
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:27.839
<v Speaker 1>outside more than the inside. You and I have talked

551
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.279
<v Speaker 1>about this.

552
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, do you know what I'm talking about?

553
00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:32.519
<v Speaker 1>Are you just again with me?

554
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, no, I do.

555
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:39.279
<v Speaker 1>I've never had someone challenge me on this, but I

556
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 1>have somebody challenging me on this in the act in

557
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.759
<v Speaker 1>the act, like and they know it's a thing for me.

558
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.000
<v Speaker 1>So now it's like become a thing where I'm like,

559
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 1>I see what you're doing and I'd like for you

560
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:54.799
<v Speaker 1>to stop.

561
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.079
<v Speaker 2>Because you can't handle it.

562
00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:00.599
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know other people know this, Like she

563
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:02.759
<v Speaker 1>acted like she'd never heard of this in her whole.

564
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Life, that there's a power dynamic.

565
00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:08.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, huh, there's one person.

566
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:13.079
<v Speaker 2>Think there is every time, though, Okay, Like I can't

567
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.599
<v Speaker 2>say that I've noticed it with everyone. I feel like

568
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:16.960
<v Speaker 2>sometimes it's pretty mutual.

569
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Well it can be mutual, but there typically is one

570
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:22.880
<v Speaker 1>person who's kind of outside versus.

571
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.920
<v Speaker 2>Inside running the show, not running the.

572
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Show even, but just more bigger on the kiss, like

573
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:36.160
<v Speaker 1>outside versus inside. It's the only way I can now

574
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.119
<v Speaker 1>when it happens, I'm like, I see what you're doing.

575
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, Like, but I have been kissing someone

576
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:49.240
<v Speaker 2>and been like, hold on, hold on, we need to

577
00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:54.920
<v Speaker 2>readjust here, dig in this. I know we can fix this.

578
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.200
<v Speaker 1>I know we can fix this. Have you said that?

579
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:07.839
<v Speaker 2>Yes? O, maybe that's why I'm single. I don't know.

580
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 2>I know that I like to actually kiss, like deep,

581
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.920
<v Speaker 2>passionate kisses, not slow or fast princess kisses.

582
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, like slow, Okay. I feel like I got a

583
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.039
<v Speaker 1>little niggative feedback on my softness that I needed to.

584
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:25.119
<v Speaker 1>But I don't kiss soft. I just when you're first

585
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.480
<v Speaker 1>kissing someone, you're not like going in hard. You like

586
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:31.279
<v Speaker 1>are kind of gentle at the beginning, right am? I? Right?

587
00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? But I'm talking like the princess kiss where it's

588
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 2>like there's no tongue. It's just like a little like boring.

589
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, this is how they kiss in a Disney cartoon.

590
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so then what do you do just like push

591
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:44.720
<v Speaker 1>your tongue in.

592
00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:47.480
<v Speaker 2>No, I say to them, stop kissing me like a

593
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Disney princess. We really, I mean maybe not that a gross.

594
00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:56.240
<v Speaker 1>And then once you say it, what do they say?

595
00:30:58.039 --> 00:31:00.759
<v Speaker 2>I've had women tell me that it was because like

596
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.519
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of how they're used to kissing, like from

597
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.119
<v Speaker 2>It's honestly like one of those things where from dating

598
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.000
<v Speaker 2>or being with men, it's like they've held back so

599
00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:16.119
<v Speaker 2>much in those situations like that they're not quite comfortable

600
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:21.359
<v Speaker 2>with it. I shouldn't say comfortable, not used to it.

601
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I guess, like so it's kind of like open up,

602
00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.279
<v Speaker 2>be more passionate, Like it's not a gross man.

603
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:36.559
<v Speaker 1>It's not a gross man. That's the title of our show. Yeah,

604
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:39.440
<v Speaker 1>but I guess when you're first learning someone, there's so

605
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:42.279
<v Speaker 1>much new there. Like I think that's it takes a minute.

606
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:47.240
<v Speaker 2>That's probably the bigger thing that I like take away

607
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.880
<v Speaker 2>that I'm trying to convey right now. It's not necessarily man,

608
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:52.279
<v Speaker 2>but that is a lot of the case where I

609
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:53.759
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I was kind of the same way. It's

610
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 2>because like you're kissing and you're like, well, I don't

611
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.680
<v Speaker 2>want this to go further, and maybe you get a

612
00:31:57.680 --> 00:31:59.440
<v Speaker 2>little like used to that, you know.

613
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I see, Yeah, kind of like what we talk

614
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:06.640
<v Speaker 1>about with sex, like you're so programmed to shut it

615
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.119
<v Speaker 1>down in your mind. Yeah that it's like once you

616
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:11.119
<v Speaker 1>start sleeping with women, your breaks are.

617
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:14.000
<v Speaker 2>Up, right, I mean you've talked about that. It's kind

618
00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:16.960
<v Speaker 2>of like you have to get like really out of

619
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:17.720
<v Speaker 2>your head.

620
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Out of your head present totally.

621
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.440
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, we've spent a lot of time trying to

622
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:25.640
<v Speaker 2>like not enjoy those experiences.

623
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:29.039
<v Speaker 1>I know, and you're like wwitch gears.

624
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and a lot of the time too, these princess

625
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:34.960
<v Speaker 2>kiss situations that I'm talking about that happened, and this

626
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.640
<v Speaker 2>is not just with one person, Okay, I want to

627
00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:38.799
<v Speaker 2>say that, but it's she.

628
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Has a big set of what do you call it,

629
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:42.720
<v Speaker 1>your data pool is big?

630
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:47.920
<v Speaker 2>I know, right, test this theory. But I feel like

631
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:50.319
<v Speaker 2>it's often in like a public setting too, So it's

632
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:53.440
<v Speaker 2>like there's another level of like maybe discomfort happening.

633
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

634
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.119
<v Speaker 2>So not that I'm just like making out in these streets,

635
00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:57.559
<v Speaker 2>but you.

636
00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Make it out in the streets.

637
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:01.480
<v Speaker 2>I have, I've been honked at.

638
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:04.759
<v Speaker 1>But you do know what I'm talking about with the kiss,

639
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:09.440
<v Speaker 1>the power the power dynamic, yes, yeah, yeah, Hm, it's

640
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:11.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of like the handshake when you come in from

641
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:13.519
<v Speaker 1>up top you're in charge.

642
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:14.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

643
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:17.200
<v Speaker 1>So it's the kiss is the same thing. And so

644
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like, I don't know, like when.

645
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.880
<v Speaker 2>There is I feel like I'm being man hating this episode.

646
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:26.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm not. I'm inner great.

647
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.200
<v Speaker 1>But there's men are great. But but.

648
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:36.599
<v Speaker 2>There's a friend that I know, and every time he

649
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.200
<v Speaker 2>sees me. He shakes my hand and does look and

650
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:43.119
<v Speaker 2>like we do this horror little hand handshake?

651
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:46.000
<v Speaker 1>What is going on? Man?

652
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:47.559
<v Speaker 2>I do the same.

653
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:49.519
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you, guys.

654
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Are like I'm meeting him. No, I mean I'm not

655
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:56.559
<v Speaker 2>shaking like two right hands or two right hand left hand.

656
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Like it's a handshake, but it's like it reminds me

657
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.119
<v Speaker 2>of like what I was told to do in a

658
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:07.000
<v Speaker 2>job interview. You know, good firm handshake, but it's like

659
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:10.440
<v Speaker 2>a handshake off. You know who's gonna win.

660
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.239
<v Speaker 1>That's how I feel about the kiss. Yeah, he's gonna win.

661
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Who's gonna win?

662
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.519
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm winning every time with a handshake.

663
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:24.360
<v Speaker 2>With the kiss, not so much.

664
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Have you kissed people that they are either challenging you

665
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:31.239
<v Speaker 1>or they are obviously the ones that are on the

666
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:33.000
<v Speaker 1>outside and you need to just know your.

667
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Place on the end makes it both Yeah, okay.

668
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

669
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:43.679
<v Speaker 2>You don't need to have your tongue down my throat.

670
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.000
<v Speaker 2>It's perfectly okay. Back there.

671
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:51.039
<v Speaker 1>On that note, I think this is a solid place

672
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 1>to wrap.

673
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:53.199
<v Speaker 2>We're just gonna go.

674
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.280
<v Speaker 1>The main topic is that feeling not self conscious, because

675
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 1>I do remember even in group, one of the women

676
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:04.679
<v Speaker 1>in group's daughter was like, please don't be gay, and

677
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:08.280
<v Speaker 1>then if you're gonna be gay, please don't date somebody's

678
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:12.800
<v Speaker 1>super masculine. Yeah, and so I mean there must be

679
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:15.440
<v Speaker 1>something to that. She was in group saying.

680
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I know I should have thought of this earlier,

681
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:20.920
<v Speaker 2>but I'm thinking of this now. But I actually had

682
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.880
<v Speaker 2>this thought when I was vacationing with my kids recently,

683
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:27.480
<v Speaker 2>and I felt like, Okay, I'm out here, I'm presenting.

684
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:32.559
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty masculine, and you know, we're at the beach,

685
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:34.880
<v Speaker 2>so it feels a little bit more obvious when I'm

686
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:38.199
<v Speaker 2>like wearing long shorts and sports bra or whatever. And

687
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:40.639
<v Speaker 2>I asked my kids. I was like, does it bother

688
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:42.960
<v Speaker 2>you that I don't dress like every other mom? And

689
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.280
<v Speaker 2>they were like, no, doesn't bother Like we like the

690
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:47.039
<v Speaker 2>way you dress.

691
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Really. Yeah, okay, so that's good news.

692
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Like that felt good to hear because I was kind

693
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:56.760
<v Speaker 2>of like my own internalized shit was happening that week

694
00:35:57.159 --> 00:35:59.559
<v Speaker 2>of being like I don't look like all the other moms,

695
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 2>and I know I'm getting like some second glances and

696
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:05.840
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, but they were just like, we don't care, and.

697
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:10.119
<v Speaker 1>Like, Okay, that's amazing. Especially where you live at their age.

698
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:15.159
<v Speaker 1>It's like everything that could possibly be stigmatized, right, and

699
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:15.880
<v Speaker 1>they don't care.

700
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

701
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:19.440
<v Speaker 1>The only time I ever felt slightly we had a

702
00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Lesbian Chronicles hat sitting in the window of my car.

703
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:24.199
<v Speaker 1>It was just like I'd taken it off and thrown

704
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.480
<v Speaker 1>it up there as I do. And I could tell.

705
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Reid was like, seriously, like, do you have to drive

706
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:32.719
<v Speaker 1>around the LC like promo?

707
00:36:33.719 --> 00:36:35.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think sometimes you got to put it

708
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 2>out there everybody.

709
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:39.920
<v Speaker 1>No, it wasn't on purpose, but I thought, do you care, dude? Really?

710
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:40.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

711
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.840
<v Speaker 1>That is your friends.

712
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:44.480
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm gay, Like yeah, but that was like a

713
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:45.159
<v Speaker 2>bridge too far.

714
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.599
<v Speaker 1>It was too far, too far, too far anyway, all right,

715
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.880
<v Speaker 1>my friend, all right, enjoy your fourth same, I'll see

716
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:59.119
<v Speaker 1>you next week. Bye bye bye.

717
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Want to support the Lesbian Chronicles podcast, Rate us and

718
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:05.519
<v Speaker 2>write a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

719
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:09.320
<v Speaker 1>We'd love listener feedback. If you'd like to share your story,

720
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 1>email us at Melissa and Ali at gmail dot com.

721
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:18.159
<v Speaker 1>That's Melissa M. E. L I s A and Ali A. L.

722
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.119
<v Speaker 1>L I at gmail dot com. Or follow us on

723
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.119
<v Speaker 1>Instagram at Lesbian Chronicles