1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,399 Speaker 1: I want you to do something for me. Wherever you 2 00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:05,320 are right now, in the car, at the gym, maybe 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,320 just sitting at home. I want you to try and 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,160 transport yourself somewhere else. Close your eyes. If you can 5 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,080 do it safely, of course, Imagine you're standing in a 6 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:18,440 place where the sun has not shone for oh maybe 7 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:19,800 fifteen million years. 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:20,679 Speaker 2: That's a long time. 9 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,399 Speaker 1: It's absolute total darkness, the kind of darkness that feels heavy. 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,640 The temperature is stable, but it's hovering just below freezing. 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,520 And here's the real kicker. Directly above your head is 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,960 three kilometers of solid ice. 13 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,439 Speaker 2: It's an incredibly claustrophobic thought. You're describing a place that, 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,520 by all rights should be completely sterile. I mean as 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,719 sterile as the surface of. 16 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,679 Speaker 1: The moon exactly. The pressure is insane, right, It's like 17 00:00:46,759 --> 00:00:48,399 being at the bottom of the deepest ocean trench. You 18 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:51,320 think it's a tomb, a geological coffin where nothing moves, 19 00:00:51,359 --> 00:00:52,399 nothing changes. 20 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: Static, frozen world. 21 00:00:53,799 --> 00:00:56,159 Speaker 1: But here's the hook, and this is the thread that 22 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:57,840 kept me pulling as I was going through the research 23 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,920 last night. It's not dead. If you were to flick 24 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,680 on a flashlight in that crushing silent darkness. You might 25 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,239 see something swim past you, a little translucent things, any 26 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,439 amphipods like shrimp, or you might find microbes that are 27 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,879 literally eating the rock itself to survive. 28 00:01:16,079 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 2: And that's just the biology of it. If your eyes 29 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,000 could somehow see through the dark, you might see well, 30 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,519 you might see entire rivers flowing uphill. 31 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: Uphill, or feel the ground shaking from the heat of 32 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:28,799 active volcanoes hidden right under your feet. 33 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 2: That's the real Antarctica. 34 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. I'm your host, and today we 35 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:37,239 are pulling on a thread that leads us to the 36 00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:40,840 very very bottom of the world. We are talking about Antarctica. 37 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:44,760 But and this is the important part, not the Antarctica 38 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:46,079 you see on a map, not. 39 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: That you know that white static blob at the bottom 40 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:49,040 of the globe. 41 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: No, we are talking about the hidden continent, the Antarctica 42 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,920 that exists beneath all that ice. 43 00:01:54,079 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: And as we've sifted through i mean a pretty big 44 00:01:56,319 --> 00:02:00,000 stack of research for this. We're talking reports from glaciologists, geophysicist, 45 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,560 ice core scientists, it becomes really really clear that the 46 00:02:03,599 --> 00:02:07,079 ice is just it's just the rapper on the gift. 47 00:02:07,359 --> 00:02:10,439 Speaker 1: It's a rapper hiding a land mass bigger than the 48 00:02:10,599 --> 00:02:14,400 United States in Mexico put together, and it's hiding secrets 49 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,759 that range from the biological origins of life on Earth 50 00:02:18,879 --> 00:02:22,560 to a geopolitical ticking clock that is set to go 51 00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:23,919 off in the year twenty forty eight. 52 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 2: That twenty forty eight date is just it's the elephant 53 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,199 in the room for anyone who studies the polls. We 54 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,560 talk a lot about climate tipping points, but there's a 55 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:35,080 political tipping point coming that could fundamentally change who owns 56 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:35,919 the bottom of the world. 57 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: And we're absolutely going to get to that political thriller 58 00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:40,680 at the end. Trust me, you are going to want 59 00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:43,400 to stick around for it because the moves that countries 60 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:46,000 like Russia and China are making right now, well let's 61 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,520 just say they are not just for the sake of 62 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,719 pure science, not at all. But before we get there, 63 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:51,680 we first have to understand what is actually down there, 64 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,159 because the physical reality of Antarctica is I think stranger 65 00:02:57,199 --> 00:02:59,120 than any science fiction novel I've ever read. 66 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: Oh it really is. And to understand that hidden continent, 67 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,560 you have to first understand the barrier that's covering it. 68 00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:06,240 You have to understand the ice itself. 69 00:03:06,479 --> 00:03:09,039 Speaker 1: So let's start there. Let's talk about the ice library. 70 00:03:09,319 --> 00:03:11,400 When I was reading about the ice corese I was 71 00:03:11,479 --> 00:03:13,439 just struck by this idea that we're not just talking 72 00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:16,120 about frozen water here. We are talking about a form 73 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:17,319 of data storage. 74 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: That is absolutely the best way to think about it. 75 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,879 It's a hard drive. Think about how snow falls in Antarctica. 76 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,800 It's the driest continent on Earth. It's technically a desert. 77 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,840 So the snow that falls it just never melts, It. 78 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,439 Speaker 1: Just piles up. 79 00:03:29,479 --> 00:03:32,479 Speaker 2: It accumulates year after year, decade after decade. You get 80 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:33,800 another layer, a bit. 81 00:03:33,719 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: Like tree rings, but made of snow. 82 00:03:35,639 --> 00:03:38,479 Speaker 2: Exactly like tree rings. But the real magic, the part 83 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,039 that's so crucial for science, happens in the transition. As 84 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:45,080 the weight of the new snow piles up, it compresses 85 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,479 all the old snow underneath it. It goes from being 86 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,360 fluffy snowflakes to something called fern, which is sort of 87 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:54,080 granular like packed sugar. Okay, and then under immense pressure 88 00:03:54,199 --> 00:03:59,360 it centers into solid glacial ice. But here's the critical part. 89 00:03:59,719 --> 00:04:03,280 As a compresses, it traps tiny tiny bubbles of air. 90 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: And this is the part that just blew my mind. 91 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,240 We're not talking about a chemical signature of the air 92 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,879 or a proxy. We're talking about actual physical pockets of 93 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:13,000 the ancient atmosphere. 94 00:04:13,039 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: Correct. They are microscopic time capsules. So if you drill 95 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,519 a core and you pull it up from say a 96 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,279 kilometer down, you are holding in your hands the air 97 00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:23,439 that was breathed by mammoth and saber toothed cats. 98 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: You can actually release it. 99 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,439 Speaker 2: You can crack that ice open in a vacuum chamber 100 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,240 in a lab, and you're releasing the specific, real mix 101 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,439 of nitrogen, oxygen, CO two, methane, whatever was in the 102 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,879 atmosphere fifty thousand, one hundred thousand, even a million years ago. 103 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: And we've gone back that far. The report's mentioned core 104 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:42,560 going back over a. 105 00:04:42,519 --> 00:04:46,079 Speaker 2: Million years, the Epic Core, the European project for ice 106 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,079 coring in Antarctica. It's given us a continuous, beautiful record 107 00:04:50,079 --> 00:04:52,399 for about eight hundred thousand years, and we have some 108 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,240 fragmented records pushing back even further toward one point two 109 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:56,959 million years. 110 00:04:57,079 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: So it's a complete atmospheric archive. 111 00:04:59,319 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: The most complet we have this is how we know 112 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,360 for an absolute fact how unprecedented our current CO two 113 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:08,839 levels are. We're not guessing. We can literally measure the 114 00:05:08,879 --> 00:05:12,160 air from past interglacial periods and compare it to the 115 00:05:12,199 --> 00:05:14,120 air outside the lab today, and you. 116 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:16,439 Speaker 1: Just can't get that anywhere else. Rocks don't give you this. 117 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,079 Speaker 2: No, rocks give you proxies, you know, isotopes that might 118 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,160 hint at temperature or ocean chemistry. The ice, the ice 119 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:25,639 gives you the source code. It gives you the actual atmosphere. 120 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,079 Speaker 1: Wow. 121 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: It also records other things too, like volcanic events. If 122 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,240 a massive volcano like Toba erupted in Indonesia seventy thousand 123 00:05:33,319 --> 00:05:36,759 years ago, the ash travels through the stratosphere, it settles 124 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,680 all over the globe, including Antarctica, and gets buried. We 125 00:05:39,759 --> 00:05:42,680 can find that specific dark layer in the ice core. 126 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:43,959 It's a perfect. 127 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: Timeline, a timeline written in dustin air. But there's a 128 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,319 tragedy inherent in this library, isn't there? I mean the 129 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,279 Library of Alexandria burned down. This library it melts. 130 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: That is the terrible fragility of the cryosphere. We are 131 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,639 in a frantic race to read these book before the 132 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,199 library essentially floods. As the planet warms, the surface starts 133 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:08,959 to melt. Even in Antarctica. That water percolates down into. 134 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: The firm mess the layers. 135 00:06:10,439 --> 00:06:13,439 Speaker 2: It corrupts the data, It mixes the air bubbles from 136 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,879 different years. The pristine record is lost forever. It's like 137 00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:18,480 smearing the ink on the page. 138 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: Speaking of reading the ice, I want to talk about 139 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:25,360 blue ice because visually this is just stunning. I was 140 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:27,680 looking at photo as well as prepping, and it looks 141 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,600 like something from another planet is glowing electric blue. 142 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: It is otherworldly, and it happens in a very specific 143 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,839 areas where these things called catabatic winds. These are brutally cold, 144 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,600 dense winds that are literally falling off the high plateau 145 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,040 due to gravity. Are so ferocious that they scour away 146 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:44,959 all the fresh. 147 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,759 Speaker 1: Snow, so they're like a giant sander, a. 148 00:06:46,759 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 2: Continental scale sander. They strip away hundreds thousands of years 149 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,480 of the surface layers until the deep ancient compressed ice 150 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:55,160 is exposed. 151 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:56,879 Speaker 1: And the reason it's so blue is because it's just 152 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,560 that dense. 153 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: Exactly all the air has been squeak out, or the 154 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,240 bubbles are so small that the ice crystal structure itself 155 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,560 starts to absorb the red and yellow end of the 156 00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:09,879 light spectrum. The only color that can escape back to 157 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,439 your eye is that deep, vibrant blue. 158 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: And for scientists this must be like a gift. 159 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 2: It's a massive shortcut. Instead of having to fund a 160 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,519 billion dollar project to drill down three kilometers to find 161 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,879 really old ice, you can just go to one of 162 00:07:23,879 --> 00:07:26,879 these blue ice areas where geological forces have pushed that 163 00:07:26,959 --> 00:07:30,079 ancient ice to the surface. You can literally walk across 164 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:31,160 the Pleistocene era. 165 00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:35,079 Speaker 1: You can walk on history. But the ice, it also 166 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,279 takes things. It's not just a passive record. We have 167 00:07:37,279 --> 00:07:39,079 to talk about Flight nine O one this story. It's 168 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,480 just so heavy, but it really illustrates that the ice 169 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:44,879 isn't a static surface, it's a living, moving river. 170 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: The Mount Arabis disaster. It was November nineteen seventy nine 171 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,120 an Air New Zealand flight a DC ten. It was 172 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,959 a sight seeing flight. They'd fly from Auckland, do a 173 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,480 low sweep over McMurdo Sound to give the tourists an 174 00:07:56,519 --> 00:07:59,000 incredible view of the continent and then fly back the 175 00:07:59,040 --> 00:07:59,680 same day. 176 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: And something horribly wrong. 177 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: They flew directly into the side of the volcano Mount Erebus. 178 00:08:04,959 --> 00:08:08,639 It was a tragic combination of a navigation coordinate error 179 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:12,720 that was entered incorrectly and a terrifying weather phenomenon called 180 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,040 sector whiteout. 181 00:08:14,319 --> 00:08:16,519 Speaker 1: White out. I've heard that, but what is sector white out? 182 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,279 Speaker 2: It's crucial to understanding the dangers down there in Antarctica. 183 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:23,439 The diffuse light from an overcast sky can bounce between 184 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,639 the flat snow on the ground and the cloud layer 185 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,839 above in a way that completely erases all shadows. You 186 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,919 lose all sense of depth perception. The horizon just disappears. 187 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: You can be looking directly at a mountain and not 188 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:35,720 see it. 189 00:08:35,879 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 2: Your brain interprets it as just more flat, white terrain. 190 00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:41,759 The pilots thought they were flying over the flat sea 191 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:45,799 ice of McMurdo Sound. In reality, they were flying straight 192 00:08:45,879 --> 00:08:47,759 toward a twelve thousand foot volcano. 193 00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: That is utterly terrifying the idea that you think you're 194 00:08:51,159 --> 00:08:53,679 flying over a flat plane and then impact. 195 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,919 Speaker 2: All two hundred and fifty seven people on board died instantly, 196 00:08:57,519 --> 00:08:59,480 and because the crash light was on the lower sloops 197 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,799 of an active volcano and one of the most hostile 198 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,519 places on Earth, the recovery effort was just incredibly difficult. 199 00:09:06,919 --> 00:09:09,639 They recovered some of the victims, but the wreckage the 200 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,080 ice cleaned it, and the. 201 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: Report mentioned that because the ice on a volcano is 202 00:09:13,399 --> 00:09:16,960 a flowing glacier, the wreckage has actually moved over the years. 203 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,279 Speaker 2: That's right. It's not a stationary tomb. The ice flows 204 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,159 downhill very slowly toward the ocean, So over the last 205 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,080 forty five years the ice has entombed and carried the 206 00:09:27,159 --> 00:09:31,080 debris field. It is slowly transporting the remains of Flight 207 00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:33,320 nine oh one toward the Ross ice shelf. 208 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: So one day it could just calve off into an iceberg. 209 00:09:35,799 --> 00:09:37,919 Speaker 2: In a few more decades, It's very possible. It's just 210 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,360 a very somber, powerful reminder that the continent is completely 211 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:43,639 indifferent to us. It preserves the past, but it also 212 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:44,519 consumes it. 213 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: And different is the perfect word. It doesn't care if 214 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840 you're a microbe or a Boeing DC ten. Now you 215 00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:51,399 mentioned Mount Erebis, which is the perfect transition to the 216 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,120 next layer of this whole thing, the. 217 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 2: Fire, the fire and ice paradox. 218 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:57,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think most people, myself included before this, assume 219 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,759 Antarctica is just a frozen dead rock, but it's actually 220 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:03,480 incredibly geologically active. 221 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: It's a tail of two very different continents. Really, you 222 00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:08,960 have East Antarctica which is what we call a Cretan. 223 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,360 It's a massive, ancient, stable shield of rock, very thick crust, 224 00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:16,639 very stable ice. That's the high cold plateau. 225 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: Okay, the stable one. 226 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: But then you have West Antarctica, the problem child, the 227 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:25,159 unstable younger sibling. Absolutely, West Antarctica isn't a single land mass. 228 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,639 It's actually an archipelago of volcanic islands that are just 229 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,960 covered and glued together by the ice sheet. And this 230 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,879 is critical. Much of its bedrock sits far below sea. 231 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: Level, and it's hotter underneath. 232 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,919 Speaker 2: The crust is thinner. It's part of a rift system 233 00:10:40,279 --> 00:10:43,360 like the East African Rift Valley. This means the Earth's 234 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:45,960 hot mantle is much closer to the surface, so. 235 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: You have all this heat coming up from below, a 236 00:10:47,879 --> 00:10:48,320 lot of it. 237 00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: Using ice penetrating radar, we have now identified one hundred 238 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,679 and thirty eight volcanoes under the West Antarctic ice sheet alone. 239 00:10:55,919 --> 00:10:58,000 Some are dormant, but a number of them are confirmed 240 00:10:58,039 --> 00:10:58,639 to be active. 241 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,399 Speaker 1: Okay, let's just unpa the physics of that for a second. 242 00:11:02,279 --> 00:11:05,559 If a volcano erupts under two miles of solid ice, 243 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,840 it's not like Mount Saint Helen's, right, We don't see 244 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,320 a mushroom cloud of ash. 245 00:11:10,399 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 2: No, not at all. The sheer pressure of the ice 246 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,600 cap suppresses any kind of explosive eruption, but the heat transfer, 247 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,000 what we call the thermal flux, is massive. It melts 248 00:11:21,039 --> 00:11:22,919 the base of the ice sheet from below. 249 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:25,799 Speaker 1: And this is where that lubricant idea from the reports 250 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,000 comes in exactly. 251 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: Ice is incredibly heavy, but it's held in place against 252 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,519 the bedrock by friction. But if you introduce a layer 253 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,840 of liquid water between the ice and the rock, you 254 00:11:36,919 --> 00:11:39,759 lose that friction. The glacier suddenly has nothing to hold onto. 255 00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: It starts to slide, it speeds up. 256 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 2: So these hidden volcanoes are essentially greasing the skids for 257 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,399 the glaciers to slide faster into the ocean. 258 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,039 Speaker 1: So it's not just warm ocean water eating the edges 259 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,519 of the glaciers, which we hear about a. 260 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,159 Speaker 2: Lot, right, it's also geothermal heat attacking the underbelly. It 261 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,879 makes predicting future sea level rise incredibly difficult because we 262 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,159 just don't have a per map of how much heat 263 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,080 is coming up in every single location. It's a huge variable. 264 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: But at Mount Arabis we can see it. This is 265 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,679 the one place where the fire actually meets the sky. 266 00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:14,799 Speaker 2: Arabis is the southernmost active volcano on Earth. It's famous 267 00:12:14,799 --> 00:12:17,240 for having a permanent lava lake in its summit crater, 268 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,440 which is incredibly rare anywhere in the world. But the 269 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,320 really fascinating part for me is the ice towers, the 270 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:24,039 femur rolls. 271 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: These are the steam vents coming off the side. 272 00:12:26,039 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 2: Yes, hot volcanic gases, steam, carbon dioxide, sulfur are constantly 273 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,919 escaping from cracks on the flanks of the mountain. Now 274 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,399 it might be minus thirty or minus forty celsius outside, 275 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,200 but this steam is hot, so it freezes instantly the 276 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,960 second it hits the frigid air. It freezes, building up 277 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,679 these incredible hollow towers of ice around the vents. They 278 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,279 can be tens of meters high, like giant icy chimneys. 279 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,039 Speaker 1: And inside these chimneys it's warm. 280 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 2: Inside. The constant flow of hot steam carves out these 281 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,600 complex cave systems, and within those caves the temperature can 282 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,840 be a balmy twenty five degrees celsius. 283 00:13:02,879 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: That's seventy seven degrees fahrenheit. 284 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: You could be comfortable in a t shirt. 285 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: In an ortica. Inside an ice cave on the side 286 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,799 of an active volcano. That's just yeah, it's a ridiculous sentence. 287 00:13:11,919 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 2: It is. And because it's warm and wet and there 288 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,679 are nutrients from the volcanic gas, life has moved in. 289 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,840 Scientists have explored these caves and found thriving communities of mosses, algae, 290 00:13:22,919 --> 00:13:23,679 and bacteria. 291 00:13:23,799 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: And are they just regular mosses? 292 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: That's the amazing part. When they sequence the DNA from 293 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,360 soil samples, they found that some of these organisms, these 294 00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,120 tiny invertebrates and microbes, have DNA sequences that don't match 295 00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:38,679 anything else seen on Earth before. 296 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,919 Speaker 1: So they've evolved in isolation inside these little volcanic hot pockets, 297 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:43,480 it seems. 298 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 2: So it's like a collection of piny, warm biological safehouses 299 00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:51,240 in the middle of the most hostile environment on the planet. 300 00:13:51,399 --> 00:13:54,399 Speaker 1: It really raises a profound question. I mean, during the 301 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,759 massive ice ages, when much of the planet was covered 302 00:13:56,799 --> 00:14:00,000 in ice, did life survive in these little geothermal refuge? 303 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,200 Was this the Noah's Ark for microbes? 304 00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: It's a very compelling theory, and that water isn't just 305 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:08,480 in these steam vents. This leads us to the continent's 306 00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:11,519 entire plumbing system. I think this was the single biggest 307 00:14:11,519 --> 00:14:13,720 shock for me in the reading. I just assume the 308 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,159 bottom of the ice sheet was frozen solid to the rock. 309 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:17,240 But it's wet. 310 00:14:17,399 --> 00:14:21,399 Speaker 1: It's a wetland, continent sized subglacial wetland. 311 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 2: A very dark, very cold wetland. 312 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:26,879 Speaker 1: So explain how that works. Why is water liquid if 313 00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:30,159 the temperature is say minus two degrees celsius. 314 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: Two reasons working together. First, that geothermal heat we just 315 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,919 talked about is constantly warming the base. Second, and just 316 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,159 as important is pressure. Right we all learn in high 317 00:14:40,159 --> 00:14:44,519 school chemistry that water freezes at zero degrees celsius. But 318 00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:48,480 that's at normal sea level atmospheric pressure. If you put 319 00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:52,120 water under three hundred atmospheres of pressure, which is roughly 320 00:14:52,159 --> 00:14:54,840 what you get under three kilometers of ice, the melting 321 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:55,919 point actually drops. 322 00:14:55,919 --> 00:14:58,679 Speaker 1: So the ice acts like an insulating blanket, trapping the 323 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:01,120 Earth's heat, and the immense pressure keeps the water in 324 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:01,799 a liquid state. 325 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,679 Speaker 2: Exactly. So you have this interface, the subglacial bed, which 326 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,279 is this slushy, wet, dynamic environment. 327 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:10,279 Speaker 1: And it's not just a swampy mess. It's organized. The 328 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,360 report said, we've mapped over four hundred subglacial. 329 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: Lakes over four hundred counting, and they're not isolated ponds. 330 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,519 They are all connected by a vast network of rivers 331 00:15:18,519 --> 00:15:21,240 and streams, a massive hidden drainage system. 332 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,679 Speaker 1: And this is where things get really weird. These rivers 333 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:25,519 can flow uphill. 334 00:15:25,879 --> 00:15:28,759 Speaker 2: They can because gravity isn't the only force at play 335 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:32,000 down there. The system is driven by pressure gradients. If 336 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:34,720 the ice sheet is thicker and heavier in one spot, 337 00:15:34,879 --> 00:15:38,320 it squeezes the water underneath with more force, pushing it 338 00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:40,879 towards an area where the ice is thinner and lighter, 339 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,559 even if that means going up a physical slope. 340 00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,679 Speaker 1: So the water is literally being pumped around by the 341 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,279 shifting weight of the entire continent precisely. 342 00:15:49,679 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: And the volumes of water we're talking about are staggering. 343 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:55,639 We have satellite data from missions like IAT that can 344 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:57,639 measure the height of the ice surface to within a 345 00:15:57,639 --> 00:16:00,240 few centimeters, and we've seen areas of the eye she 346 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,720 suddenly sink by ten meters in the space of a 347 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:03,600 few weeks, and. 348 00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: That means a lake underneath just drained. 349 00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:09,399 Speaker 2: It means billions of gallons of water just rushed through 350 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,639 a dark, hidden tunnel to the next lake down the shane. 351 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:16,039 Maybe hundreds of kilometers away. The whole continent is sort 352 00:16:16,039 --> 00:16:19,720 of breathing. It rises and falls as these lakes fill 353 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:20,240 and drain. 354 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,279 Speaker 1: It's like a giant, slow motion hydraulic machine. But there's 355 00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:26,279 a leak in this system, isn't there? We have to 356 00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:26,919 talk about. 357 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: Blood falls the tailor glacier. 358 00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: If you're near a computer, you have to google this 359 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:33,039 blood falls Antarctica. It looks like something out of a 360 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,360 horror movie. It's this pristine white glacier face and pouring 361 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:40,360 out of a crack in the ice is this vivid, 362 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,159 blood red liquid that stains the ice all the way 363 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:44,799 down to the sea. 364 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,559 Speaker 2: It's an incredible sight. It was first discovered back in 365 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:51,440 nineteen eleven by a geologist named Griffith Taylor, and for 366 00:16:51,519 --> 00:16:54,039 decades the logical assumption was, oh, it must be some 367 00:16:54,159 --> 00:16:57,279 kind of red algae. That's the usual explanation for red 368 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:58,240 colored snow or ice. 369 00:16:58,399 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: But it's not algae. 370 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,039 Speaker 2: It's not by all algy it's chemistry. It's rust rust. 371 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,400 What's pouring out is an ancient hypersaline brine. It's water 372 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,319 that's at least twice as salty as the ocean, and 373 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,079 it's been trapped in a pocket under the Tailor glacier 374 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,880 for at least a million years, maybe as many as five. 375 00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: Million, completely isolated from the rest. 376 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: Of the world, no light and crucially no oxygen. And 377 00:17:19,759 --> 00:17:22,039 for all those millions of years, it's been sitting there 378 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,759 reacting with the iron rich bedrock, dissolving that iron into 379 00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:28,480 the water. So you have this clear, salty, iron rich 380 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:29,519 water trapped in the. 381 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: Dark, and then it finally reaches the edge of the 382 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:31,960 glacier and. 383 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: Hits the air and boom oxidation. It's an instant chemical reaction. 384 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,680 The dissolved ferrous iron reacts with the oxygen in the 385 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,839 atmosphere and instantly rusts, turning that clear water into the 386 00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:45,319 deep red color you see. 387 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: But the biology here is the really mind bending part, 388 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,680 because there are things living in that dark, salty, oxygen 389 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,599 free brine. 390 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,319 Speaker 2: This is where it starts to feel like we're talking 391 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,720 about another planet. Inside that water, microbes are thriving, but 392 00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:03,599 they can't perform photosynthesis because there's no light. They can't 393 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,279 breathe oxygen because there isn't. 394 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,039 Speaker 1: Any So what are they eating? What are they breathing? 395 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: They're breathing iron. They're using a bizarre metabolic pathway involving 396 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:14,200 sulfate and the ferrous iron in the water to metabolize 397 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,039 tiny traces of ancient organic matter that we're trapped with 398 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:19,279 the millions of years ago. 399 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: They're rock eaters in a way. 400 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: Yes, it's proof that a complex ecosystem can sustain itself 401 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,720 in a completely sealed system with no input from the 402 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:30,039 sun or the atmosphere for millions of years. 403 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:32,599 Speaker 1: And this isn't just some scientific curiosity. This has a 404 00:18:32,599 --> 00:18:35,319 global impact. This gets to the iron pop concept right. 405 00:18:35,519 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 2: Yes, Blood Falls is a small, visually dramatic example of 406 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,240 a much larger process. We now believe that this iron 407 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:48,359 rich subglacial water is seeping out from underglaciers all around 408 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,400 the continent into the Southern Ocean. 409 00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: And the Southern Ocean is starved for iron exactly. 410 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,319 Speaker 2: It's what we call a high nutrient, low chlorophyll region. 411 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,920 It has plenty of other nutrients like nitrates and phosphates, 412 00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:03,640 but it lacks iron. Iron is the limiting factor for life. 413 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: So the glaciers are literally fertilizing the ocean. 414 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 2: You can think of it that way, Yes, Yeah, The 415 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,359 glaciers grind the bedrock into a fine powder. The subglacial 416 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,480 river system dissolves the iron out of that powder, and 417 00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:17,680 then it pumps that iron rich fresh water into the sea, 418 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,240 and that injection of iron triggers massive blooms of phytoplankton, 419 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,880 the base of the entire oceanic. 420 00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:26,319 Speaker 1: Food web, which then feeds the crowd, which. 421 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 2: Then feeds the whales, the seals, the penguins, everything. 422 00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: Including the blue whales. I want to pause on the 423 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,519 blue whale story for a moment because it's, yeah, it's 424 00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:36,720 just so heartbreaking, but also weirdly hopeful. 425 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,839 Speaker 2: The sheer scale of the industrial whaling in the twentieth 426 00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:43,319 century is hard to even comprehend. In the Southern Ocean, 427 00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:47,480 we killed an estimated three hundred and sixty thousand blue whales. 428 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: Three hundred and sixty thousand. 429 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,559 Speaker 2: We reduce the global population to about one percent of 430 00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:54,400 its original size, maybe less one percent. 431 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: Just trying to imagine if ninety nine percent of the 432 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,920 human population disappeared, it was a complete ecal logical collapse. 433 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 2: It was. But now with the international ban on commercial whaling, 434 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,920 they're slowly, slowly starting to come back. The problem is 435 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,799 studying them is a logistical nightmare. They're incredibly fast, they're 436 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,559 very shy of boats, and the Southern Ocean has the 437 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,839 roughest seas on the planet, and. 438 00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:20,319 Speaker 1: The report mentioned a group called Planet Wild, which I 439 00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:22,960 thought was a really interesting angle. It shows how science 440 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,720 is adapting. It's not just giant government research ships anymore. 441 00:20:25,759 --> 00:20:28,279 Speaker 2: No, it's becoming much more agile. Planet Wild is a 442 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:31,519 community funded organization and they help fund a mission that 443 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,519 use long range drones to study the whales. 444 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: Which solves the observer problem. 445 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 2: It totally changes the game. If you're chasing one hundred 446 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,160 foot whale with a loud diesel powered ship, the noise 447 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,559 stresses the animal out. You're not observing natural behavior. You're 448 00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:50,079 observing a panicked animal trying to get away from you. 449 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: But a drone flying a few hundred feet up is 450 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,440 basically silent to them. 451 00:20:55,599 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: Relatively silent. Yes, it can fly through the whales, blow 452 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,920 the snot that shoots out and collect DNA samples. It 453 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,279 can use photogrammetry to precisely measure the whale's length and 454 00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:10,319 body condition. It can track feeding behavior for hours, all 455 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,119 without the whale ever knowing it's there. 456 00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:15,039 Speaker 1: And what they're finding is that these whales are congregating 457 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:18,319 in the exact areas where this nutrient rich water is 458 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,519 coming out from under the ice. 459 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 2: They are completely dependent on that subglacial iron pump. We 460 00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:25,599 just talked about. Their entire recovery hinges on it. 461 00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: It's all connected. If the subglacial plumbing system changes because 462 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,480 the ice sheet is melting differently, the iron pump is 463 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,279 shut off, the phytoplankton crash, the krill disappear, and the 464 00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:35,839 whale star. 465 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: That is the frightening fragility of the entire system. 466 00:21:39,319 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so we've talked about the life at the edges 467 00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:46,400 in the ocean. But let's go deeper now into the 468 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,079 deep biosphere. Let's talk about Lake. 469 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:54,759 Speaker 2: Vostoc, the holy grail of subglacial exploration. Lake Vostock is enormous. 470 00:21:54,839 --> 00:21:57,920 It's about the size of Lake Ontario in North America, 471 00:21:58,519 --> 00:22:01,240 and it's buried under four kilometers that's two and a 472 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:03,039 half miles of solid ice. 473 00:22:03,279 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: And it's been sealed off for how long The. 474 00:22:05,279 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: Estimates vary, but the consensus is somewhere between fifteen and 475 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,799 twenty five million years. It has been totally isolated for 476 00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:15,039 a geologically significant amount of time. 477 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: I remember reading about the Russians drilling into it a 478 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,880 few years ago. There was a lot of controversy around. 479 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 2: Oh, it was a massive ethical and scientific debate in 480 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,559 the community. If you are about to puncture an ecosystem 481 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:28,480 that hasn't touched the outside atmosphere in millions of years, 482 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:31,119 how do you do it without contaminating it with your 483 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:32,519 own dirty, modern drill? 484 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: Bit right, you don't want to be the person who 485 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,160 sneezes into the pristine Petri dish. 486 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,759 Speaker 2: Exactly. The Russian team used kerosene and free on as 487 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:44,000 a drilling fluid to keep the borehole from freezing shut, 488 00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:48,160 which terrified environmentalists. But their method was actually quite clever. 489 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:51,039 They drilled down and stopped just above the liquid water. 490 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: Oh, they didn't go all the way in. 491 00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:55,559 Speaker 2: Not Initially, they let the immense pressure of the lake 492 00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:58,599 below push fresh lake water up into the bottom of 493 00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:02,000 the borehole. Then when they let that water freeze a 494 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:05,119 year later, they came back and drilled out that core 495 00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:09,160 of freshly frozen pristine lake water. So they sampled the 496 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,400 lake without the drill ever touching the main body of water. 497 00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: That is clever. 498 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: And what do they find They found life? They found 499 00:23:16,039 --> 00:23:20,359 thousands of distinct DNA sequences. Now many were likely contaminants 500 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,799 from the drilling process. Yes, but a significant number appear 501 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,440 to be indigenous to the lake, mostly bacteria and Archaea 502 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,160 chematrovs organisms. 503 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,319 Speaker 1: They'd eat minerals and chemicals instead of some light. 504 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,799 Speaker 2: Yes, and this is the moment where the NASA folks 505 00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,759 and the Astrobiology division really sit up and pay attention. 506 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: This is the playground for thinking about Europa. Europa the 507 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,880 moon of Jupiter, which we are almost certain has a 508 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,599 liquid saltwater ocean underneath its outer ice shell, or Enceladus, 509 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,759 the moon of Saturn, which has geysers of water erupting 510 00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:50,359 into space. 511 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 2: If life can survive and even thrive in Lake Vostok 512 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,640 in total darkness, under crushing pressure, with no connection to 513 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,119 the sun, eating rock. 514 00:24:00,319 --> 00:24:03,559 Speaker 1: Then there is absolutely no reason it couldn't exist on Europa. 515 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:06,559 Antarctica is the closest analog we have on Earth to 516 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,240 those icy alien worlds. It's our proof of concept for 517 00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:11,640 life in the outer Solar System. 518 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 2: It fundamentally changes the definition of a habitable world. 519 00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: It blows it wide open. It's not just about being 520 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:20,440 the right distance from your star anymore. It's about having 521 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,160 liquid water and an energy source which could just be 522 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,119 geothermal heat in chemistry. 523 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,039 Speaker 2: Okay, I want to do a thought experiment. Now, let's 524 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,480 use the bedmap tow project data you mentioned. Let's take 525 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:33,359 a giant hypothetical hair dryer and melt every single cubic 526 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,640 inch of ice off the continent. What does the land 527 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,839 underneath actually look like. 528 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,039 Speaker 1: It looks completely unrecognizable, it's rugged, it's scarred, and it's 529 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,839 definitely not flat. The first thing you'd see are the 530 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,920 ghost Mountains, the gambird Sev Mountains. I mean, the name 531 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,640 alone is just fantastic. 532 00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:53,319 Speaker 2: It's a geological paradox. The gambird Sevs are a mountain 533 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,359 range the size of the European Alps, tall, jagged, sharp 534 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,559 peaks located right in the bed center of East Denarctica, 535 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:02,319 the oldest part of the continent. 536 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: And they shouldn't be there. 537 00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:06,880 Speaker 2: They shouldn't look like that. Normally, mountains in the middle 538 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,440 of a continent are ancient and have been worn down 539 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,640 by billions of years of erosion. They should be rounded 540 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,759 stumps like the Appalachians. These look young and sharp, but they've. 541 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: Been buried under ice for at least thirty million years, 542 00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:20,599 and that's the key. 543 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,519 Speaker 2: The ice froze them in time. Glaciers usually erode mountains, 544 00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:26,000 but if the ice at the base is what we 545 00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:29,200 call cold basted, meaning it's frozen solid to the rock 546 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,799 and not sliding on a film of water, it actually 547 00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:34,440 protects the rock. It's like shrink wrapping the mountains in 548 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,839 a protective shield. 549 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: So we have this pristine alpine mountain range that no 550 00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:41,759 human has ever seen, hidden under three kilometers of ice. 551 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: And then if you look over in another part of 552 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,319 East Antarctica, you'd find the canyon Denman Canyon, the deepest 553 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,920 known land canyon on Earth. The Grand Canyon is impressive. 554 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,200 Sure it's a mile deep, but Denman Canyon plunges three 555 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,799 point five kilometers. That's eleven thousand, five hundred feet below 556 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,240 sea level level. 557 00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: It's hard to even visualize that scale. 558 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,640 Speaker 2: If you could stand at the bottom without the ice, 559 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,400 the canyon walls would tower over you, three times higher 560 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,440 than the walls of the Grand Canyon. It's a colossal feature. 561 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:13,039 Speaker 1: And then there's the Wilke's Land anomaly. 562 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, the favorite of conspiracy theorists everywhere. 563 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: But there is real science behind it. 564 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,599 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. It's a massive gravity anomaly. Basically, when satellites 565 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,200 map the Earth a gravity field, they show a huge 566 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,319 concentration of mass in a roughly circular shape about four 567 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,519 hundred and eighty kilometers wide, buried deep under the ice 568 00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:33,680 in a region called Wilkesland. 569 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:36,079 Speaker 1: And the leading theory is that it's an asteroid impact crater. 570 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: That's the main hypothesis, yes, what geologists call a mask 571 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,000 on a mass concentration. The theory is that a truly 572 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,759 enormous asteroid, maybe the size of the one that killed 573 00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:50,799 the dinosaurs, punched through the Earth's crust. The denser mantle 574 00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:53,599 material then welled up to fill the hole, creating a 575 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,599 dense plug of rock that the satellites can detect because 576 00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:58,039 of its higher gravity. 577 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: And the timing. The estimates put it at around two 578 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,799 hundred and fifty million years ago. 579 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 2: Which lines up almost perfectly with the Permian Triassic extinction event, 580 00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:07,319 the Great Dying. 581 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: The single worst extinction event in Earth's history. 582 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,039 Speaker 2: It is it's entirely possible that the impact that killed 583 00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:15,880 over ninety percent of all life on Earth struck what 584 00:27:16,079 --> 00:27:19,720 was then Antarctica, and then the continent drifted south, froze over, 585 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,920 and hid the murder weapon under miles of ice. We 586 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,160 can't prove it without drilling through the ice sheet. To 587 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,400 get rock samples, but the gravity signal is undeniably there. 588 00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:31,319 Speaker 1: One more geological concept before we get to the really 589 00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:34,960 thorny part, the politics II static rebound, because if we 590 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,640 melt all that ice, the land doesn't just sit there exposed. 591 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,279 Speaker 2: No, not at all. The Earth's crust is elastic in 592 00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,240 a way, the unimaginable weight of the Antarctic ice sheet 593 00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:48,680 is currently pushing the entire continent's crust down into the 594 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,119 semi molten mantle by hundreds of meters. 595 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,759 Speaker 1: Like sitting down on a memory film mattress. 596 00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:56,079 Speaker 2: That's a perfect analogy. And if you stand up from 597 00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:59,119 the mattress, if the ice melts, the weight is lifted, 598 00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:03,319 but the mantle is incredibly viscous. It's like thick honey. 599 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,039 It takes a very long time to flow back into place. 600 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,880 So the land will slowly, over thousands of years, rise 601 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:10,279 back up. 602 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:11,839 Speaker 1: We see that happening elsewhere, right. 603 00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:14,599 Speaker 2: We're still seeing it today in places like Scandinavia and Canada, 604 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,599 which are still rising. From the end of the Last 605 00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:20,680 ice Age ten thousand years ago, an Arctica would rise dramatically, 606 00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:23,400 changing global sea levels and the shape of the oceans 607 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:24,000 even further. 608 00:28:24,319 --> 00:28:27,319 Speaker 1: So the map is not static. It's breathing, it's moving, 609 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,920 it's rising, it's falling. But now we have to talk 610 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,480 about the human lines we try to draw on that map, 611 00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:35,839 the geopolitics. 612 00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:36,839 Speaker 2: The who owns Antarctica question. 613 00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:40,519 Speaker 1: We'll set the scene. It's nineteen fifty nine. The Cold 614 00:28:40,599 --> 00:28:43,200 War is at its peak. The US and the USS 615 00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:46,599 are appointing thousands of nuclear weapons at each other, and 616 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,799 yet somehow they sit down and sign the Antarctic Treaty. 617 00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:53,599 Speaker 2: Why it was a remarkable moment of scientific sanity in 618 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,160 a politically insane time. Scientists from all over the world 619 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,559 had just collaborated on the International Geophysical Years in nineteen 620 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,200 fifty seven. They'd been working together peacefully in Antarctica, and 621 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,119 they realized that if they allowed the Cold War to 622 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,200 come down to the ice, it would ruin this unique 623 00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:09,519 laboratory for everyone. 624 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: So they carved it out. 625 00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:13,599 Speaker 2: Twelve nations, including the US and the Soviet Union, signed 626 00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:17,200 the treaty. It designated the entire continent as a zone 627 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,519 for peace and science only, no military bases, no nuclear 628 00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:24,759 testing or waste disposal, and crucially, it put all existing 629 00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:26,319 territorial claims on ice. 630 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:29,039 Speaker 1: On ice is the operative word isn't it. Because seven 631 00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:31,799 countries claim these big pie shaped slices of the continent, 632 00:29:32,119 --> 00:29:35,799 the UK, France, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Chili. 633 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 2: Argentina right, and their claims overlap and are contentious. So 634 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:43,160 the treaty cleverly says, Okay, we aren't going to recognize 635 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,319 your claims, but we aren't going to deny them either. 636 00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:47,599 We're just going to agree to ignore them for the 637 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,680 duration of the treaty. 638 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,319 Speaker 1: The diplomatic agree to disagree exactly. 639 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: And then in the nineteen nineties they added the Madrid Protocol, 640 00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:59,000 And this is the real shield. The protocol explicitly banned 641 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,440 all mining and mineral exploration on. 642 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,839 Speaker 1: The continent because they knew what was probably down there. 643 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,559 Speaker 2: They had a very good idea. Antarctica was the heart 644 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,279 of the super continent Gondwana. It connects geologically to Australia, 645 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:14,200 South Africa, and South America, three of the most mineral 646 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:17,400 rich regions on Earth. It is a geological certainty that 647 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,880 Antarctica holds vast untapped deposits of coal, iron, copper, gold, platinum, 648 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,680 and almost certainly oil and gas. 649 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,359 Speaker 1: One of the reports I saw estimated as much as 650 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,599 two hundred billion barrels of oil. 651 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,119 Speaker 2: Which is a colossal amount, and in a resource constrained 652 00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:35,680 twenty first century world, that is a very, very tempting prize. 653 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,079 Speaker 1: So the ban is in place. But here is the 654 00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:40,279 ticking clock that we teas at the start of the show, 655 00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:42,599 the year twenty forty eight. What happens then? 656 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: There's a common misconception that the entire Antarctic Treaty expires 657 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,680 in twenty forty eight. It doesn't. But the Madrid Protocol, 658 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,640 the part with the mining ban, has a special clause. 659 00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:56,559 It says that after fifty years of being in force, 660 00:30:56,599 --> 00:30:59,000 which happens to be the year twenty forty eight, any 661 00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:01,960 of the main treaty can call for a conference to 662 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:02,640 review the ban. 663 00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:05,119 Speaker 1: So they can call for a vote to start digging. 664 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 2: They can force the issue onto the table. Now, the 665 00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:10,319 rules to actually change the ban are very strict. You 666 00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:14,000 need a consensus. But international law is only as strong 667 00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:16,680 as the willingness of powerful nations to abide by it. 668 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,680 If a superpower decides in twenty forty nine, you know what, 669 00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:22,160 I'm withdrawing from the protocol and I'm going to drill 670 00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:24,759 who realistically is going to stop them? Are we going 671 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:27,160 to fight a naval war in the Southern Ocean over. 672 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,839 Speaker 1: It, and the positioning, the maneuvering is already happening. Well, 673 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,440 let's talk about what Russia is doing with Rauziologia. 674 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,559 Speaker 2: Rasteolosia is the Russian state run geological exploration agency. For 675 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,960 the past several years, they have been conducting massive seismic 676 00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:44,400 surveys in the Widell Sea and other areas. Now, seismic 677 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,960 surveys are a legitimate scientific tool. You use powerful air 678 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,720 guns to send sound waves into the seabed to map 679 00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:54,000 the walk layers. But that is the exact same technology 680 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,519 you used to prospect for oil and gas reserves. 681 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,279 Speaker 1: So they claim its pure science, but the West suspects 682 00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:00,319 its prospect. 683 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: It's dual use science. They are quietly and systematically mapping 684 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,960 the continent's reserves. They're building a detailed inventory so that 685 00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:12,519 if or when the legal regime changes, they know exactly 686 00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:14,359 where to put the oil rigs on day one. 687 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:15,279 Speaker 1: And what about China. 688 00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 2: China is a newer player in Antarctica, but they are 689 00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:22,119 moving much much faster. They've controversially declared themselves a near 690 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,160 Arctic state, and they're applying that same strategic logic. To 691 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,680 the south, they're building their fifth research station, a huge 692 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:32,480 year round facility, on a place called Inexpressible Island. They 693 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,960 are building a fleet of heavy. 694 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,079 Speaker 1: Ice breakers, the ice silk Road, that's. 695 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,759 Speaker 2: Their term for it. Yes, their strategy appears to be 696 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,759 logistical dominance. The thinking is, if you have the best ships, 697 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:45,119 the most air strips, and the most permanent bases spread 698 00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:47,920 across the continent, you control the reality on the ground 699 00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:49,720 regardless of what some treaty says. 700 00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: And how does the US presence compare. 701 00:32:52,279 --> 00:32:55,119 Speaker 2: The main US presence is centered at McMurdo Station, and 702 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,039 a lot of its infrastructure is well, it's aging. It 703 00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:01,039 dates back to the sixties and seventies. We are falling 704 00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:03,599 behind in the race for capability and presence. 705 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,599 Speaker 1: So you have this perfect storm brewing. The ice is melting, 706 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,759 which is making physical access to the continent easier than 707 00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:13,960 ever before. The world is getting more desperate for resources, 708 00:33:14,359 --> 00:33:16,799 and the main legal protection comes up for review in 709 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,920 just over twenty years. 710 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 2: It is a recipe for conflict and there's a very 711 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,400 clever moral argument that will be made, and we need 712 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,839 to be ready for it. Countries will start to say, look, 713 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,079 we need these rare earth metals for green technology. We 714 00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:32,640 need the lithium in Antarctica for electric car batteries. Is 715 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,599 it truly ethical to leave these resources buried under the 716 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,920 ice when humanity needs them to transition away from fossil fuels. 717 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,559 Speaker 1: Wow, that is a devilishly clever argument. Destroy the last 718 00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:47,559 pristine wilderness on Earth in order to save the rest 719 00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:48,119 of the planet. 720 00:33:48,279 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 2: It's the argument we are almost certain to hear in 721 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,920 the run up to twenty forty eight. 722 00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:55,039 Speaker 1: It just makes you realize that Antarctica isn't safe because 723 00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:58,359 we all agree it should be. It's just paused. Its 724 00:33:58,359 --> 00:33:59,880 fate is in a holding pattern, and. 725 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 2: The ice itself is changing the game. As the sea 726 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,440 ice retreats, more and more ships can get closer. Tourism 727 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:11,239 is absolutely exploding. Bioprospecting, where companies are searching for those 728 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,519 unique microbes we talked about to create new drugs or enzymes, 729 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,480 is already a legal gray area. The physical isolation that 730 00:34:18,519 --> 00:34:22,400 protected Antarctica for fifteen million years is effectively gone. 731 00:34:22,519 --> 00:34:25,159 Speaker 1: This has been well, it's been heavy, but it's also 732 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,039 been absolutely fascinating. We've gone from the microscopic breath of 733 00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:31,079 ancient bacteria inside an ice core to the movement of 734 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,719 entire continence and the strategic posturing of nuclear powers. 735 00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:37,679 Speaker 2: It just shows that you can't separate the science from 736 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,360 the politics down there. The ice core data is what 737 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,679 drives global climate policy. The underlying geology is what drives 738 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,880 the resource hunger. The geography is what drives the placement 739 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,199 of strategic bases. It is all one big, tangled, frozen knot. 740 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: So I want to leave our listener with the question 741 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:58,039 that the experts and diplomats are already whispering about in 742 00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:00,000 the corridors of these treaty meetings. 743 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 2: Twenty forty eight question. 744 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,559 Speaker 1: I want you imagine it's twenty forty eight. You're at 745 00:35:03,559 --> 00:35:07,119 the negotiating table. The world population is close to ten billion. 746 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,840 Energy's expensive, key materials are scarce. But you have this 747 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,679 one continent, this one last white shield that has never 748 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,320 been mined. Do you vote to keep it a pristine 749 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,599 scientific preserve forever, knowing the potential economic cost, or do 750 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:23,800 you vote to open the vault? 751 00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 2: Is Antarctica a sanctuary or is it a warehouse for 752 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,760 humanity's future needs? 753 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,039 Speaker 1: I genuinely want to know where you stand on this. 754 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,440 Is it inevitable that we start digging or can we 755 00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:36,800 and should we actually hold the line? Leave us a comment, 756 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,639 send us a message on social media. Really love to 757 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:39,920 see the poll numbers on that one. 758 00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:42,559 Speaker 2: It might be one of the biggest collective decisions of 759 00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:43,800 the twenty first century. 760 00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: Thank you for taking this deep plunge with us. This 761 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,519 has been thrilling threads. Keep pulling on those loose ends. 762 00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:51,719 You never know what you'll find.